To be upset about what this mum was like with my DD

(184 Posts)
housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 18:38:06

On Friday night DD (9) went out to tea with a friend and then to a sleepover at the friend's house. 2 other friends were invited so there were 4 children there in total including DD.

When I picked DD up yesterday morning she burst into tears as soon as we got into the car and said that the following had happened:

When they went out for tea DD there were the 4 kids and then 4 adults; the child's mum and dad and 2 friends of the mum. The mum made DD sit at a table with the 3 other adults and the mum sat at the table with the 3 other children. the mum's reasoning was that her DD wanted to sit with her mum. DD was upset as she didn't know the other adults at the table and obviously she felt left out.

They went back to the house for the sleepover. The birthday child and another girl that was there had it in for DD and spent the whole evening being horrible to her; making fun of the present she had given the girl (clothes) and saying it was horrible, making fun of DD's clothes and DD's pyjamas, and just saying mean things all evening. DD tried several times to tell the girls' mum what was going on and each time the girl's mum told her not to tell tales and to go and get on with everyone. She also said that the mum gave the birthday girl a pack of biscuits for them all to share but the birthday girl refused to let DD have any and the mum just said 'It's X's birthday, it's her choice' so DD didn't get any.

Another time the birthday girl went and told her mum DD had been horrible to her,and the mum went steaming into the bedroom and shouted at DD. DD said she hadn't and that it was the birthday girl and the mum said her daughter would never do that and that she is a lovely girl and DD needs to learn to get on with others.

DD then asked her to phone me as she wanted to go home, and DD said she was in tears at this point (DD says it was around 9pm) and the mum refused to phone me and just walked out of the room.

Then first thing in the morning DD says she woke up and all the other 3 were talking about her, saying they hate her now and that they won't speak to her at school. She again tried to tell the mum and the mum told her again to stop telling tales.

The mum didn't say a word to me about it at pick up and said they'd all had a lovely time and been good. DD normally gets on with everyone, has never had any problems at school with other children and is a lovely girl. Not perfect, as no child is, but certainly not deserving of this treatment. The mum has always seemed nice enough when we've met up with the girls and I've known her several years. Her DD is reasonably spoilt and is the centre of her mum's world. I really don't know where to go from here. Obviously any future playdate or party invitations will be declined, as will any invites from the mum for coffee. I feel if I say something it will cause trouble. I'm so upset though, that my DD was so upset staying at someone else's house and the mum wouldn't even phone me so I could collect her.

hwjm1945 Sun 24-Mar-13 18:40:44

If yr dd truly asked to telephone and this was denied you have every right to be angry,please tell others mother this

InNeedOfBrandy Sun 24-Mar-13 18:41:53

Hmm see I can see the mums point of view with the telling tales thing, it would annoy me and I would of told them all to play nicely and leave me in peace but she was out of order not letting your dd ring you when she wanted to go home.

Def not being unreasonable but I don't know what you can do about it other than as you say no further playdates etc. Feel really sad for your DD!

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 18:47:11

thanks balancing. Me too. She was so upset. she's not normally a sensitive child and doesn't normally tell tales or take much notice if someone is horrible to her, but I think the girls just went on and on at her and really gave her a hard time.

I think I'll just have to let things fizzle out and have said to DD to maybe re-think how highly she prioritises that friend at school, and I'll leave it at that then with the mum. If she behaved badly towards DD as DD has says, surely if the mum has any conscience she will know why.

Failedhippy Sun 24-Mar-13 18:48:11

I would be raging and would definitely phone the other Mum to ascertain exactly why she did not let your DD phone home. She will probably say that she didn't want to disturb your night that is where you step in say you would never ignore or brush off a clearly upset child. I am sure you are very upset for your DD. I would be too so YADNBU.

5Foot5 Sun 24-Mar-13 18:48:16

I think in your shoes I would be upset too. For me the worst bit is that your poor DD asked the Mum to ring you to take her home and she refused. That was bang out of order. Even if the other girls had been angels and there was no real cause for your DDs distress there is no way that she should have ignored her request to go home. I have had several sleepovers in past years and I would never have ignored an upset little girl like that.

I think perhaps your DD should be encouraged to rethink her friendship with this girl and find some new friends. It wouldn't however,surprise me to find that this particular girl will turn out to be the class Quenn Bee who has her own little entourage trying to keep in with her.

Doyouthinktheysaurus Sun 24-Mar-13 18:48:40

That's very, very sad!

I would be every angry! I would never ignore what a visiting child was telling me or accuse them of telling tales either!

When we've had sleepovers the priority has been that all the visiting children enjoy themselves and any issues would be dealt with immediately.

I don't know what you can do really apart from not let your dd go again and let her know that you are supportive of her. Not sure whether talking to the other mum will get you anywhere.....

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 24-Mar-13 18:49:57

Sounds horrid, OP, even if it's not 100% accurate. I think I would speak to the other mother and say that it's unacceptable for her not to ring you when she was asked to do so that, also that you would have thought that a parent would keep an eye to make sure that all is well and not just disregard upsets, however trivial they're deemed to be. An upset child is an upset child. There's nothing else to say really; it would be perceived as your daughter's word against her daughter's if you tried to take it up with the mum. Just express your disappointment, say that DD didn't have a nice time at all and that she won't be socialising with the girl again.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 24-Mar-13 18:52:10

bloody hell yNBU, hw old is dd

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 18:52:16

5ftoo5, luckily this girl isn't DD's best friend or in DD's group of very best friends, so hopefully avoiding her at school will be fairly easy.

Doyouthink, I'm the same as you, my priority is always making sure the visiting children are happy. I would also try to take an objective view of any disagreements, and certainly wouldn't assume my child was innocent.

I think the table incident, the biscuits incident and the fact that she shouted at my DD, let alone not letting her phone home, are unforgiveable.

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 18:52:45

She's 9, wrongside

ChasedByBees Sun 24-Mar-13 18:53:00

I'd be seething that she didn't let her call home and would have words. Really shocked at the mum's behaviour.

sue52 Sun 24-Mar-13 18:53:27

It was very thoughtless of the Mother not to allow DD to sit with the children at the birthday tea. Your DD must have felt very uncomfortable being stuck with the adults. There is no way my DD's would have been allowed to hog a packet of biscuits, party or no party. I would give this child and her mother a very wide berth.

CSIJanner Sun 24-Mar-13 18:55:25

If the mother really did ignore your DD's request to call home, I'd be going supernova on her arse.

I would be mad too. I think you should phone her up though. Your DD needs to know you will defend her and the other Mum needs pulling up before she does it to another child.

ReluctantBeing Sun 24-Mar-13 18:55:47

That's awful. I feel very angry for your dd. the birthday girl sounds horrid, as does her mother.

TWinklyLittleStar Sun 24-Mar-13 18:58:07

With such a charming mother, its not hard to see where the daughter is learning her charming manners hmm You say that you feel raising the incident would cause trouble - well so fucking what. If half your daughter's account is accurate she was treated appallingly.

Also telling tales is NOT the same as being genuinely upset - however, given the mother's response to her own little darling 'telling tales', clearly it wasn't a case of wanting the children to sort things out amongst themselves.

LovesBeingWokenEveryNight Sun 24-Mar-13 18:58:09

Regardless of who was being mean to who and how many times, it is unforgivable to refuse to her your dd call you to take her home. I would want to mention that part

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 18:58:19

My only worry with phoning her is it may start a bad atmosphere or a feud if the mum takes offence and to be honest I think it will make school runs easier for me and school itself easier for DD, if I just leave it.

The mum often complains that various others at school are regularly unpleasant to her DD, but now I'm wondering whether it really is all the other children and whether perhaps her DD is sometimes to blame if she behaves that way.

HungryClocksGoBackFourSeconds Sun 24-Mar-13 18:59:44

I don't think you should just leave it.

I went through similar crap like this when I was younger and my parents didn't really do anything. It just kept on and life was very hard. I think comedycentral is right, she needs to see you defend her.

janey68 Sun 24-Mar-13 19:00:14

Your poor dd, it upsets me just reading about that.
I would definitely contact the mum and say you are aware your dd asked to come home and was in tears, and that you are very unhappy that this was ignored. I think it's important for your dd to know you have made a stand on this. Following that, I think the only thing you can do is explain to your dd that some children are just nasty, its not her fault, its
Usually borne out of their insecurity, and hopefully she will find
Some better friends in future

Madlizzy Sun 24-Mar-13 19:00:20

I'd be going nuclear.

HungryClocksGoBackFourSeconds Sun 24-Mar-13 19:00:38

I would at least alert the school so that they can watch out for future bullying as it sounds like the girls are planning on continuing this behaviour

HungryClocksGoBackFourSeconds Sun 24-Mar-13 19:01:29

Oh and this book is fab

Maggie111 Sun 24-Mar-13 19:02:08

Crikey, I remember sleepovers and falling outs and things so I'm reading along trying to excuse the mother in every instance remembering it's only a 9 year old girls opinion that I'm going on....

But for her to ask to phone you but be refused I would go absolutely ballistic. I'd ring up the mother, say your daughter has some issues, you thought it best to speak to a grown up about it all and have a "light" conversation where you are just trying to understand the facts - and stick to the important ones, not every single "she said".

Depending on how the conversation goes how you handle it will change - but that woman would be getting some kind of comment about how disgraceful, if it were true, that she couldn't phone home...

thefirstmrsrochester Sun 24-Mar-13 19:02:24

Good lord, your poor dd. Give her a big cuddle and explain that not all adults are decent. I dont know who was more of a brat - mum or the birthday girl.
Look on this as a blessing and cross these horrors off your dd's friendship radar.
Oh, absolutely contact the host mum to call her on her refusal to let your dd call home.

ginmakesitallok Sun 24-Mar-13 19:02:58

I wouldn't let this fizzle out - if the mother really didn't let your DD phone home that is out of order. Poor wee thing. I would call her and ask her what the hell had happened. angry

cjel Sun 24-Mar-13 19:06:12

I think I'd be concerned that this sort of mum would not understand your call, would defend her dd to the hilt and wouldn't be at all surprised if it created trouble for your dd at school. I would be tempted to support dd say how wrong they were and make arrangements for her to maybe have a pay as you go phone with small balance just to take on sleepovers in future.

XBenedict Sun 24-Mar-13 19:06:41

Oh that has made me so sad, your poor DD and what a thoughtless mother. I would be on the phone I think asking what happened, Hope your DD is getting lots of cuddles this evening, give her one from me smile

WorraLiberty Sun 24-Mar-13 19:11:24

You do need to speak to the Mum about this.

But don't go in all guns blazing as you've only heard one side of the story...and that's from your upset 9yr old.

If it's all as she's saying, then that's absolutely shocking and I don't blame you and your DD for being upset.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...but this is why we should all have a PAYG 'family mobile' in the cupboard, so the kids can take it with them when they're away from home.

NynaevesSister Sun 24-Mar-13 19:11:25

I think your daughter needs to know you believe her and are on her side. Like you for all the getting along and school gate reasons I would not get into a discussion of your daughters or the behaviour of the girls. But I would ask her clearly and without emotion why she refused to allow your daughter to call. If she outright lies to you and says your daughter didn't ask then say why on earth would your daughter lie about something like that. Since you've made no mention of any incidents she will be unstuck. If she says that she didn't want to disturb you just make it clear that for her future reference that's part of being a parent, being there even if your child just misses you and that wasn't her decision to make.

SucksToBeMe Sun 24-Mar-13 19:13:41

I feel very sad for your DD,give her a big hug.

Chiggers Sun 24-Mar-13 19:14:17

If I was in your shoes, I would be confronting the mother about how her DD isn't the little angel she thinks her DD is. My priority in this situation, would be to stick up for my DD, but also to help my DD stick up for herself.

Hopefully the worst that will happen is that her mum will berate you for revealing some facts about her DD that she doesn't want to hear, but don't be worrying about that.

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 19:17:05

I think if I discuss it with the mum it won't achieve anything; she will just pin all the blame on DD and basically give me a torrent of 'home truths' about DD, because presumably, from how she behaved, she thinks her DD is perfect. I don't think my DD is perfect, but she's not a tale teller, she never has any problems and just generally seems to sail through school and friendships. She's also very popular and gets invited to a lot of parties and round to others' houses. And she is generally very reliable. Which is why I believe her, and am pretty certain that what she has told me is the truth.

WafflyVersatile Sun 24-Mar-13 19:17:34

How well do you know the mums of the other girls? would it be possible to call one of them and find out if anyone else knows if she asked to phone you?

muriel76 Sun 24-Mar-13 19:18:34

I would call the other mother and ask what had happened.

Say your DD has been in tears and very upset, telling you she has had a bad time and that she felt the other girls were horrible to her and that she wanted to come home.

Then be silent and wait to see what the other mum says. Do not fill the silence and let her explain to you what 'her side' is. I would be interested in her explanation without her knowing what details you know. I think that should give you a picture of what has gone on.

Your poor DD.

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 19:18:40

Chiggers, she's normally really good at sticking up for herself, hence she never has any problems with others. She's quite assertive without being aggressive and seems to really take things in her stride. It's very out of character for her to be so upset about something, especially something that generally she would shrug off and deal with. Which I think is why I'm so concerned tbh.

lunar1 Sun 24-Mar-13 19:28:45

I would say something to the mother, your dd needs to see that behaviour like this is ant acceptable from adults or children. It doesn't reall matter if she doesn't take it on board it's the message dd takes away that counts.

MrsCampbellBlack Sun 24-Mar-13 19:30:56

I would do exactly what Muriel said for the reasons others have said. Your DD needs to see you will defend her.

Also the other mother may try and make out it was nothing but perhaps she'll realise that if a child wants to leave she needs to listen to that child.

Chiggers Sun 24-Mar-13 19:31:28

I would guess, then, that if it's out of character for your DD to be upset, then something must have really upset her when she was there.

I second the idea to ring the mum and ask her what went on. Let her say her piece then ask her why she didn't let your DD ring you to come home? See what she says after that, but it would probably be best if you decline invites to her DD's birthdays and any other invites to go for coffee with her.

I doubt this will be the last time her DD will cause trouble for others, and if she starts this carry on in school, her mum will soon realise that her DD isn't as angelic as she likes to think.

I also agree with the idea of letting her teacher know about what has happened and that you would appreciate it if she kept an eye on the two girls. It may be that the teacher could be aware of the other DD's attempts at getting other kids into trouble.

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 19:35:28

Just wanted to say thank you everyone for all the input. Everything is taken on board. DD is ok now, we've had a long chat today and I've said that some people just aren't very nice, but that it's ok to avoid those that don't treat us nicely and we don't have to be friends with everyone and we dont' have to tolerate nastiness from others. She is a very stoic child, and has been fine since she got home in general, she is just more of the 'I can't believe how they treated me' mindset.

I haven't decided yet whether to tackle the other mum. I think I may think on it for a day or two and see how I feel once I feel less emotional and upset about it all

SayMama Sun 24-Mar-13 19:36:48

Yes, your DD needs to know that you don't think this woman and daughter's behaviour is appropriate. The fact that you don't seem prepared to confront her incase it makes your school run awkward makes me a little sad

thegreylady Sun 24-Mar-13 19:40:17

Like some of the rest I feel it could be important for your dd to see you supporting her in this.I would ask dd if she wants you to speak to the other mum.If she says no then I would write a note to the other mum itemising what went on beginning with the seating at the meal.

gymmummy64 Sun 24-Mar-13 19:43:57

I would never ever separate one girl out from the rest as the mother did at dinner. What a recipe for disaster and this will have set the pattern for the rest of the playdate. Highly highly insensitive of her, cruel even. Even if some of the rest of the playdate might be open to interpretation, that one act alone would make me absolutely furious. I can think of nothing more guaranteed to make the singled out girl miserable and left out - and then highly likely to remain so for the rest of the playdate.

9 year old girls can be awful to each other, surely most of us go to great lengths to avoid it on occasions like this, not encourage it! This mother must have blinkers on

So, this compounded by her failure to let your DD call you (which surely to goodness is a cardinal sin in playdate world?) would have me making it very clear how I felt. And it takes a very very great deal to make me confront someone. YADDDDNBU.

MrsLouisTheroux Sun 24-Mar-13 19:43:59

I would talk to your DD and let her know that you are sad and angry on her behalf.

As for the other mother, when you next see her, say something along the lines of "DD said she asked you to phone me as she was not having a good night, I wish you had."
This lets the woman know a) You know what has happened b) that you are not happy. You are not confronting her, causing further stress for your DD, just letting her know that you are onto her.

It sounds awful. Your poor DD. sad

spottyparrot Sun 24-Mar-13 19:47:28

I think not phoning you when your dd asked was unforgivable. Your dd was subjected to an evening of bullying and I would ask the mum for an explanation as to he she didn't call when asked. Next time (not at same house obv), could dd take a mobile phone?

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 19:48:22

Not just my school run, SayMama. What I mean is it may have implications for DD if I'm seen to have a public 'falling out' with another mum. This mum may royally take the hump, people may feel caught in the middle. It might mean DD gets less party invites or less playdate invites. It also might mean that whilst the kids all forget about it and get on, the mother carries it on and tells her DD to be nasty to mine, thus carrying on the nastiness. I'm not being selfish, I am trying to look at the bigger picture before I do something that might have long term implications for DD at school. Hope this clarifies things

MrsLouisTheroux Sun 24-Mar-13 19:54:46

I think you are sensible. Getting into heated 'discussions' with this woman would be a waste of time. your priority is how your DD is and keeping it calm for her is the way to go.
You have marked this woman's cards. You needn't have anything to do with her.

Oh your poor DD sad I feel so sad for her, housefull - how awful. Good for her that she's bounced back so well x

MunchkinsMumof2 Sun 24-Mar-13 20:03:38

Your dd and your relationship with her is far more important than potential bad feeling at the school gate. Your Dd needs to know that this treatment of her is unacceptable and that you are on her side. I haven't been spoken to by another Mum at school for a year and I couldn't give a shit. My Dc come first and you need to woman up and tell the other Mum some home truths.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 24-Mar-13 20:05:46

I think that you need to keep a very close eye on things at school, and at the first whiff of trouble, tell the teacher, and take it to the head if necessary about bullying.

Like MrsLouisTheroux and Chiggers say - I might want to ask the mother about your DD wanting her to phone you. Ask in a non-confrontational way. Her reaction to that will tell you a bit.

pigletmania Sun 24-Mar-13 20:09:11

I would be raging, the behaviour of the mum was appealing, firstly seating your dd away from the other children, than telling her not to tell tales, and siding with the others, and then the worse bit, denying your dd access to a telephone. I would cut this friendship dead, and like other poster has said alert the school to possible bullying behaviour, as this sounds very much like bullying.

Floggingmolly Sun 24-Mar-13 20:09:13

Your last post is a bit hmm. Why would you see it as a public falling out with the other mum??
Your dd was made to feel like shit at a party, and you think bringing it to the mum's attention may impact on your dd's play dates and future party invites? confused
If the other mum is some sort of vicious playground nazi who will control how others react to your dd; I wonder why you allowed her to attend the party in the first place.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 24-Mar-13 20:10:38

The fact that she would not phone you, if true (and it sounds true to me) is unforgivable, in itself, never mind the other stuff.

Salmotrutta Sun 24-Mar-13 20:16:09

I completely agree that you should ask why your DD wasn't allowed to phone home.

You don't need to ask about anything else but you should ask about that.

It's totally unacceptable not to have allowed her to phone.

Salmotrutta Sun 24-Mar-13 20:17:29

Are you scared of this woman OP?

Maryz Sun 24-Mar-13 20:17:31

I would write down exactly what your dd says happened, and put it in with a not to the mum saying "I know sometimes children can over-react, but maybe you can clarify a few things because dd was very upset when she came home, which isn't like her".

And see what she says.

If she didn't let your dd call home, I would be telling the school, as other parents should know that. It is appalling to not let a child call his or her mother shock. She was very lucky your dd didn't let herself out of the house and try to walk home - and imagine what might have happened in that case.

minkembra Sun 24-Mar-13 20:23:56

Op have you asked Dd if she would like you to call? She might feel supported if you did but on the other hand she might be mortified.

Re. not phoning home, yes that is terrible if your Dd was begging and pleading to call but nite so bad if she just asked and was discouraged in a lets nite bother your mum it will be fine way IYSWIM. have seen kids at parties having a wobble and Saudi give it 5 minutes see how you feel. which could be interpreted as not letting them phone home but is really just giving them time.

That said it sounds like this 'friend' is spoilt horrid and best avoided.

I would let Dd know it is not her fault. they are bullies and take lead from her in what you do about it. 9 is old enough to have an opinion.

TSSDNCOP Sun 24-Mar-13 20:26:25

I'm stealing Worras suggestion of a PAYG phone in the night bag for sleepovers.

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 20:27:53

Minkembra, she doesn't want me to phone the other mum, because she says it might make the girls behave in a worse way to her at school.

fuzzysnout Sun 24-Mar-13 20:28:29

I agree that you speaking to the mother now will not be a good idea. She is clearly so unpleasant that she may well encourage her DD to make trouble for your DD if you contact her.

You have done exactly the right thing in supporting your DD. Having a go at (or even a civil word with) this woman will achieve nothing.

idiot55 Sun 24-Mar-13 20:32:40

I would leave it, Id be so tempted to speak to the mum but to be honest she will prabably go off on one, deny it etc etc.

Lifes too short.

what is important is to talk to your daughter about peoples behaviour etc and closley monitor how things are going at school, socially etc
many hugs, sounds a horrible ordeal

catsmother Sun 24-Mar-13 20:32:51

Exactly what Gymmummy said.

If nothing else I'd want this woman's version of events and ask her how on earth she can justify the table thing and then later the phone thing. Both those things really were terribly cruel.

Maryz Sun 24-Mar-13 20:36:41

I really think you need to query the phone call and the table.

You owe it to any other children she may have in her house.

And I doubt the child will be any worse to your dd if you do phone her - she sounds pretty horrible either way.

wannaBe Sun 24-Mar-13 20:37:16

playing devil's advocate here, but is it possible that the reason why the mum ignored your dd's request to phone you was because she said it at the point she was being told off, and the mum saw it as defiance rather than anything else iyswim?

I'm not saying that's what happened, but you can't just take the word of a nine year old and cut off friendships and invites when you only actually have half the story. You do need to seek some clarification on this. If the mum deliberately singled out your dd at dinner and your dd was genuinely upset and wanted to go home then the mum is out of order. But you do need to clarify this from the mum as well as your dd, and it doesn't need to be a public falling out - just seeking clarification on what really happened according to everyone.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 24-Mar-13 20:39:13

houseful

I know you are worried about making it worse, but I think our children need us to see that we are not afraid of confronting bullying. If we don't we are enabling them to buy into the idea that we should just suck it up/avoid/manage our own behaviour.

I completely respect that you don't want to. At the very least, please do talk to the teacher.

I can see what your saying houseful.
There is a real bother happening at the school gates here.
I have no idea what has happened or which mother is at the middle of it all, but the nasty snippets that I have overheard before they realised I was behind them was shocking.
I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of a few of them.

But then I also think that it would be worth the risk just to ask about the fact that she refused your DDs request, because that was just cruel sad
You don't need answers or even an apology but you need to show your DD that you didn't let it slide out of fear.

My DD was pushed over by a friend, way back when.
I chose to speak to the mother in passing who then said that she should just push back! I can't remember what my response to that was, probably something like, I encourage my DD not to push at all so that wouldn't happen.
My heart was in my throat, I was so frightened by it, and it seemed that she didn't even acknowledge it. But I just couldn't let it slide.
And, to me it was important to say it even if it didn't achieve anything.

I would do the same if this happened to my DD even if it was the top B&tch in the playground.
And talking to the school re future episodes, you should defo do that too, I think, good suggestion.

moonabove Sun 24-Mar-13 20:42:55

I think you should leave it there. This Mum's going to go on the defensive and the whole thing will escalate. Your dd is very wise, she knows these girls will use it as yet another reason to get at her. It's all very well to say the school can monitor bullying but bullying can be very subtle, far too subtle for busy teachers to spot.

pinksomething Sun 24-Mar-13 20:44:12

I would say something but more of a 'DD says she had a bit of a wobble - it would have been fine to phone me'. I think you can probably get a fair insight from her reaction/the conversation that follows and at least you have said something but without confrontation or demanding an answer.

wannaBe Sun 24-Mar-13 20:55:38

but...

This child hasn't had issues with being bullied before.

She is apparently a confident outgoing child who doesn't have issue getting on with others.

Apparently the other child has had issues with bullying in the past (according to the op).

Yet we must assume that the other child is the one in the wrong, that her previous allegations of bullying must be wrong too, and we have categorised this mother, and this nine year old child, as vile individuals who should be avoided? All on the say-so of a nine year old who doesn't want the op to seek clarification from the mother?

Don't get me wrong, if what the dd is saying is the absolute truth then I agree that it's horrible and I would encourage her to just find other children to play with.

But you can't know for certain what happened, especially the table incident and her wanting to go home without actually seeking clarification.

I know that the op is supporting her own dd, but it's IMO not on either to say in one breath that she believes her dd 100% (without speaking to the other mum), and in the next to cast doubt over the other mum's previous allegations that her own dd has been picked on. Either children should be believed 100% regardless or they shouldn't - which is it?

Nine year olds can be horrible, and talking about each other/being nasty is fairly commonplace, so telling them not to tell tales would probably have entered on to my radar as well. And perhaps if the other dd has been bullied in the past the mum became overprotective of her when she felt this was going on under her own roof. But you can't possibly know that without seeking absolute clarification. If you don't ask, you can't possibly know. And I might be inclined too think the dd's not wanting you to call the other mum to clarify could be suspicious if she's not being totally honest.

SpeccyBat Sun 24-Mar-13 20:56:04

Worra's suggestion for a PAYG molbile is spot. DD is only 7 so no sleepovers yet, but am making a mental note to self on that one.

I know you don't want to rock the boat, but I'd have to mention it to the Mum. I'd have to ask if everything had been ok because DD hadn't been allowed to phone home. Then stay silent and, if I've read this situation correctly, you'd have given this woman enough rope to hang herself with. If she takes the bait and spills enough negative stuff, then you could come back with the response that she SHOULD have contacted you if things were 'that bad' so why didn't she? Your DD's behaviour couldn't have been that awful if they were able to 'tolerate' it all night so if anything, the opposite scenario is most likely.

Sounds a hideous night. Your poor girl. What on earth was this Mum thinking?

banana87 Sun 24-Mar-13 20:57:02

I would definitely be inclined to have a word with this mother. You can do it in such a non-agressive way that she won't necessarily become defensive.

Dancergirl Sun 24-Mar-13 21:03:26

I agree with wannabe tbh. There is always another persons viewpoint.

OP, even if your dd doesn't want you to, I would speak to the mum anyway. You don't have to be confrontational but ask for clarification as others have said. See what she says.

SpeccyBat Sun 24-Mar-13 21:03:55

is spot on. Numpty.

VilootShesCute Sun 24-Mar-13 21:05:08

You poor thing, I felt sick reading that, I want to cuddle you both. Fecking women. Some of em are just plain nasty.

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 21:06:27

Surely the mum will deny it though if she was out of order, or sway it in favour of her child no matter what. Then what? Am I supposed to disbelieve my own child? Who is normally a reliable, sensible child that gets on well with others and has never gone through anything like this before?

Dancergirl Sun 24-Mar-13 21:09:13

It's not a question of disbelieving your dd houseful, but hearing the story from the mums perspective. You assume she'll try and wriggle out of any wrong-doing but you don't know until you ask!

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 21:12:00

I'm going to bow out of the thread now. Thank you for all the opinions and advice.

At the moment I am not going to say anything to the mother. I will leave my daughter with the judgement of whether to be friends with this child again, and I will be careful and selective about which invitations I accept in future from this mother. I do believe my DD, as the other mother clearly believed her DD, and I think if my DD was as awful as she seemed to make out to DD, she would have said something when I collected DD.

wannaBe Sun 24-Mar-13 21:15:10

but you don't know she'll try and wriggle out of it, she may just give you a different perspective.

From your dd's pov "I asked her to ring you because I wanted to come home," from her pov, "I had just told your dd off because the girls were arguing, she burst into tears and said she wanted to come home. I thought she was just being defiant so I just ignored it." It puts a different perspective on things and it may actually be how the mum saw it.

You can only judge a situation if you have both sides. You say this mum doesn't want to believe her dd is capable of doing any wrong, but by refusing to seek clarification of both sides of the incident you are acting no different tbh.

SpeccyBat Sun 24-Mar-13 21:17:30

Agreed OP. Had your DD been badly behaved, then she would have contacted you/at the very least mentioned it. Am gutted for you both. We are meant to be able to trust other Mums with our children.

Dancergirl Sun 24-Mar-13 21:18:25

I agree wannabe and OP, why post on here if you aren't going to listen to advice?

Not about your dd specifically, but I would be wary of looking at any child as 100% innocent. ANY child is capable of acting inappropriately sometimes, it doesn't mean they are bad people, but they're young and learning.

DumSpiroSpero Sun 24-Mar-13 21:19:23

I'm normally very much in favour of letting things blow over, but I couldn't let go of the not letting your DD call home aspect.

Perhaps speak to the other mum about this "DD came home very upset as she had wanted to come home but apparently wasn't able to call me - it's not like her, do you know if anything went on that I should be aware of?"

The other mum then has the opportunity to put her side of the story, our did herself a bloody great hole. If nothing else she will probably realise that your DD has told you exactly what went on and she hasn't 'gotten away with it'.

I really sympathise as my 8.6yo DD had a less than brilliant sleepover last night too - unfortunately it was with the IL's & MIL was the problem, so I'll some fun dealing with that no doubt hmm.

Madmum24 Sun 24-Mar-13 21:24:07

I would definately want to know the other mothers side of the story; I have issues with a mother in our group who is convinced that her child is being severely bullied/excluded from the group; but it is her pfb that is extremely manipulative and wants to control other children, but is very careful only to display this out of the sight/hearing of the adults I only realized this when I put my ear to the door of the playroom. The mother doesn't listen to anyone elses side of the story, accuses other kids of being liars and openly says that her child would never do anything wrong.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 24-Mar-13 21:25:49

True Dancergirl

housefullofnoisykids Sun 24-Mar-13 21:26:23

I just feel I've been given an unfairly hard time Dancergirl. I did listen to advice, and you will see that I've said twice in this thread that I appreciate all replies and that I've taken all advice on board. That doesn't mean I'm going to do what everybody says though and I'm sure you'll have read that some have agreed with me and say that I'm doing the right thing. Just because I'm not doing what you suggest I do it doesn't mean that I didn't appreciate all replies and didn't listen to advice.

Well I really am off now because I don't think I have anything more to say. But I shall say once again thank you all for your replies, and I have taken everything on board, and considered everything, even if I haven't done exactly what each and every person suggested! smile

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 24-Mar-13 21:26:38

True Madmum

XBenedict Sun 24-Mar-13 21:31:18

I get it OP, she's never going to say "do you know what OP you are right I should have called I'm so sorry" although half of me would want to phone and find out what went on the other half would be questioning what I would achieve. Is your DD ok now?

LandofTute Sun 24-Mar-13 21:41:14

I think you are doing the right thing not saying anything to the mum. Your dd thinks it will make things worse and it probably will. The mum will almost certainly blame your dd and maybe get very angry, so it won't help your dd.
Just speak to your dd and say those girls aren't nice and she needs to concentrate on nice girls and make sure she avoids them out of school in future. Possibly send an email to the teacher and ask her to keep an eye out for any nastiness in school by these bully girls.

lisad123everybodydancenow Sun 24-Mar-13 21:51:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

stressyBessy22 Sun 24-Mar-13 23:23:28

Your poor DD.I wouldn't contact the other mother because she is going to tell a different tale and you will have no way of proving what your DD said is true.In fact some of the things I am a bit hmm about.What adult want to sit at the childrens table?
even if you could prove it the past can't be undone.Make sure you send your DD with a mobile phone next time she goes on a sleepover.

candyandyoga Sun 24-Mar-13 23:29:58

I would be fucking fumimg

You must say something.

This mum should feel ashamed of herself, what a nasty stupid woman!

And another thing, I really hate it when people say that children 'shouldn't tell tales' - if there is a problem, why are some parents saying children should shut up about it?! I don't get that kind of stupid attitude either.

You must say something - and don't be apologetic about it either. Say it straight that you found her ( the mum's) attitude towards your daughter very wrong and you are furious she didn't let your dd phone you.

This is exactly why it is worth being so much more cautious about where children have sleepovers.

Yfronts Sun 24-Mar-13 23:33:47

I would call the other mother and ask what had happened.

Say your DD has been in tears and very upset, telling you she has had a bad time and that she felt the other girls were horrible to her and that she wanted to come home.

Then be silent and wait to see what the other mum says.

NayFindus Sun 24-Mar-13 23:42:00

I would forget the rest and just ask her why her daughter wasn't allowed to call home? Agree with the others, kids aren't perfect but it looks like it was the girls mother that was bullying her and the other kids took their cues from that. How shit do you have to be to bully a 9 year old girl on her own at your home??? Sickened.

cjel Mon 25-Mar-13 00:49:01

Just look after dd. Posters who say we should confront bullies and show dd you are supporting her are very confrontational. DD also has to learn that horrible people happen in life and we don't always have to carry it on. By supporting dd without all the drama is much more sensible. OP has asked dd - she wants it left she has moved on, she know they were wrong not her and thats all thats important. It is not OPs job to change another mothers way of being - its up to her to do the best for her dd. DD wants it left end of.

Welovegrapes Mon 25-Mar-13 00:58:25

I think you are right op. speaking to her will only whip everything up and lead to more difficulties. She will probably just lie anyway.

I think the reason everyone is so keen for you to say something is that she was so unkind and we are all so angry on your dd's behalf.

Sounds as though your dd is handling it v well.

Un MN hugs to you.

Icelollycraving Mon 25-Mar-13 01:15:41

Poor dd. Some girls (& women) can be such vicious little cats.
I think I would call. I would just ask what happened as your dd burst into tears as soon as she was in the car,which is v out of charachter.
The biscuit thing is pointless to bring up. She won't see her dd in a bad light,she is enabling it. I would just want her to know I was concerned dd had asked to call home & that was refused.
I suspect she will not view the sleepover in any way the same way as your dd.

GreenLeafTea Mon 25-Mar-13 01:40:45

I think you should mention something to her teacher at school to keep an eye on things just in case.

I also wouldn't bother speaking to the mum. She sounds awful.

MidniteScribbler Mon 25-Mar-13 01:42:54

The mamma bear side of me would want to run this woman up a flagpole by her underwear and throw sticks at her. What a horrible sounding person.

The sensible part of me would let it go for the moment and refuse all future invitations and interactions with this family. The passive aggressive part of me would make sure that I had a few snide comments to this woman in passing so she knows I'm pissed off.

Your child has asked that you not pursue it with the mother, so I would leave it at that for now. But perhaps you could take her on a special mother/daughter shopping trip to pick out a basic payg mobile phone and cool case that she can take to playdates and sleepovers so she knows that if she's ever feeling uncomfortable she can call you at anytime.

Machli Mon 25-Mar-13 02:29:57

I'd be right up front and say "dd says she asked you to call me from the sleepover because she was upset, is that true?" I am afraid I would not be able to leave it. Poor dd sad.

scratchandsniff Mon 25-Mar-13 02:32:26

I think you're right not to call her. She'll go on the defensive and you won't get anywhere with her. Also it could make matters worse for your DD. Ignore her in future and decline any future invites if she asks why, that is when I would say something.

Girls can be bloody nasty. The mother set the tone for the evening when she seperated your daughter at dinner.

I would in future keep a pay as you go mobile for DD to take with her on sleepovers.

I hope your DD doesn't have to have too much to do with these girls in future.

tvmum1976 Mon 25-Mar-13 02:40:39

That sounds awful. your poor DD. I do think you should approach the mum, esp about the phoning home thing but I probably wouldn't go in all guns blazing. Ask for her account of what happened re the phonecall just to make sure that it's accurate (not accusing your DD of lying by any means, but sometimes when kids are upset, then stories can get confused.) Good luck.

Chiggers Mon 25-Mar-13 07:52:58

Ultimately, OP, you should do what you deem to be in the best interests of your DD. Maybe it's better to leave it for the meantime and see how the other girls react to your DD during school hours. Let your DD know that she is to teel the teacher if the other girls pick on her.

It might be an idea to enrol your DD in some sort of martial arts class, so she can defend herself if necessary. It also instills discipline in the child so your DD may be more confident in her ability in handling the situation and defending herself if needed.

I hope you get this sorted OP, for your DD's sake.

Chiggers Mon 25-Mar-13 07:59:47

tell the teacher. Would you also get your DD a diary to record any incidents with the other girl and/or her friends. That way if you ask to speak to the teacher you'll find out what's happening with the other girl, if the school's anti-bullying policy is being implemented to keep all pupils in line.

OnwardBound Mon 25-Mar-13 08:16:44

I may be biased by my own experience but my DM was exactly like you OP in this sort of situation.

If I was upset or felt I was being bullied as a child she would never confront the situation [be that child's parent or teacher], preferring to tell me to deal with it and not to say anything as it might cause trouble [for me and her].

She was sympathetic but just not very assertive. And unfortunately taught me to be the same.

So when as a young adult I was bullied at work my preferred method of dealing with it was to keep my head down and pretend it wasn't happening.

It is only as a middle aged woman that I have realised that this approach is ultimately unhelpful as it is destructive to the victim's self esteem [their wellbeing is not worth causing a fuss over] and also allows bullies to thrive unhindered.

In this situation I would calmly ring other mother for clarification and let DD know you are contacting her. The other mother may lie and bluster or may just in fact have a different version of events. But you have let her know that your DD was upset by circumstances and that you are speaking as her advocate. You are not afraid to confront the issue.

Depending on what you hear you may decide to believe the other mother's version of events or not, but most importantly you have shown your DD that you take her and her concerns seriously. That she is worth creating a "fuss" for.

This is very important for children's self esteem and is a powerful inoculation against their being crushed by further unpleasant behaviour or bullying.

Good luck OP!

NynaevesSister Mon 25-Mar-13 08:33:20

Totally agree with onward bound. There is no need to be confrontational. Be reasonable in tone and do not engage with her on any kind of emotional level. Stick to the facts. Why did she not allow your daughter to ring home? You don't even have to respond to her even if she is awful.

My concern is that these girls will continue to target your daughter at school if they think she is a walk over. The ignore tactic doesn't work. Neither does confronting and then seeming all whiny over it. What will work is a reasonable, assertive tone of voice the same as you would use on a naughty toddler who isn't your child. Firm, friendly tone. It is amazing what you can say to people if you are smiling!

anothermadamebutterfly Mon 25-Mar-13 09:15:11

I agree completely with Onward and Nynaeves - no need to be confrontational or accuse the other mum of anything, but you must let her know that your DD was very upset and you are concerned. Be matter of fact about it. If there was a genuine misunderstanding, then it gives the other mum a chance to explain what happened, if she starts blaming your DD then you know where you stand and can take it from there.

I think it is really important that your DD sees you you will stand up for her and are not frightened of or intimidated by the other mum. I also don't think that your DD should be the judge of whether you contact the mum or not - she is a child and needs your support and for you to make the difficult decisions for her. I had a similar episode with DD, who had a bullying episode at school, she insisted she didn't want me to talk to the teachers, but I did in the end and the situation was monitored, action was taken and things were sorted within a week.

QueenOfCats Mon 25-Mar-13 09:30:28

Oh that's awful, your poor dd sad

I remember once a when dd was little she had a friend here for a sleepover. The friend got upset at 1.45am and I drove her home as soon as we had spoken to her mum - I'd hate to think of any child visiting here being upset.

Hope your dd is ok

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 09:39:18

OK, well I wasn't going to come back to this thread but....

I received a text early this morning from the mum of the 2nd girl. Not the birthday girl but the other one that was being horrible to DD. Her DD had cried after the party because she was horrible to DD and she felt terrible about it. It is very out of character for that child. The mum said her DD wanted to apologise to DD. I text back and said that DD had been very upset but that I appreciated her texting me, but what had actually happened. She replied that her DD had said that they were being unkind to my DD, and then the birthday girl had been making things up and telling her mum that DD had done them, as she wanted to get DD into trouble. And yes, DD did have to sit on her own with 3 other adults in the restaurant. And she didn't get any biscuits.....

DD is not a pushover by any means, just wanted to clarify that too as I know that's been mentioned.

Walking into school this morning, the birthday child came running up to DD, all nice and chatty (she was with her gran,not the mum), and DD just blanked her and walked off, which is what I have told DD to do if this girl tries to talk to her at school, and the girl went very red faced and looked embarrassed and guilty, she clearly knows exactly why.

I have decided I'm going to speak to DD's teacher initially. As I said, these girls aren't in DD's main circle of friends, and tbh when DD is with her group of friends I don't think they would dare do it to her, I think they just took an opportunity to try to bully her when she didn't have her best, very close friends with her. I still don't see what can be gained from talking to the mum. She will clearly defend her DD to the hilt. At most I think all we will get is a half hearted apology . Which really won't mean anything.

I'm not a bad mother though, and I do defend my children. I have an older child who was bullied for several years at primary school and I tackled parents then, and ended up with some hating me for suggesting their little darlings would do horrible things, and the only thing that happened is the children were more horrible at school to DD, and she ended up getting excluded from parties and other things, as the parents didn't like me for speaking (very politely and nicely) to them about their childrens' behaviour. I do think sometimes it is best to just accept that some people in life aren't nice, and to teach children strategies for coping and for ignoring others. I frequently on here see posts by adults saying they don't fall out with people that upset them, they just cut them out of their life and move on. I think children need to learn this strategy.

hackmum Mon 25-Mar-13 09:46:03

OP, sounds like you've done the right thing. The other mum sounds like a nasty piece of work and so does her daughter.

Icelollycraving Mon 25-Mar-13 10:04:52

That's good that the other girl realised her behaviour had been mean & wanted to apologise.
Sounds like you have a plan,good luck.

GroupieGirl Mon 25-Mar-13 10:05:02

I've been following this, OP, and for what it's worth I think you're doing the right thing. Whilst I would want to confront the other mum, I think that your decision to watch and wait is best in this situation.

Also good on the mum that texted you. Pretty big of her and her daughter to admit the bullying and want to apologise.

StanleyLambchop Mon 25-Mar-13 10:09:21

Personally I think that now you have had clarification from the other child (presumably you have the text message from the other Mum) you are in a much better position to tackle the sleepover Mum. I would ask her about refusing to let DD ring you, then if she starts giving you flannel you can say that your DD's version has been corroborated by the other child & her Mother. You are not doing anyone any favours by not speaking to her- presumably the other girl & her Mum thought it a big deal enough to contact you about, I think you should see it the same way and contact the sleepover Mum.

BuddyButters Mon 25-Mar-13 10:14:46

Definitely contact sleepover mum now you've had the full story.

Poor DD sad

pigletmania Mon 25-Mar-13 10:14:48

That is a good outcome housefullof, at least you have clarification from the other girl and her mother, and you can inform the school to look out for potential bullying. Good on your dd for blanking that horrid girl, hopefully she will realise he behaviour. what goes around comes around. I would keep the texts for future reference though.

SirChenjin Mon 25-Mar-13 10:19:52

It's a difficult one, isn't it. My DM was like Onwards, and as a result I grew up not wanting to cause a fuss in case it made things worse, or if I did speak up for myself I tended to go overboard and lash out verbally, rather than being assertive, as I just didn't know how to do otherwise.

It sounds as if your DD has taken the right approach, and by blanking Tallulah has let her know exactly what she thinks of her. I'd do the same to her mother, if you feel you don't want to tackle her on the issue, but if she tried to make conversation I would make it very clear why I wanted nothing more to do with her. I'd also speak to the teacher, summarise what happened and ask her to watch out for any repurcussions.

Some girls (and women) can be absolutely vile - I will never, ever understand this attitude, as long as I live.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 10:20:50

What would contacting the sleepover mum achieve though, Stanley? As I said, at best I may get a half hearted apology. And then what?

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 10:24:52

SirChenjin, I'm not one for avoiding all confronation per se and of course I'd stick up for my kids, and have done at many times. I just think it's best to pick your battles. I think DD understands that it isn't her fault or her problem, rather the mother and the birthday girl that are at fault here, not through any fault of hers, just because they aren't very nice people.

We live in a small town. The school isn't that large. I know that tackling the mum would have repercussions and it wouldn't achieve anything. I would rather teach my daughter skills to deal with this kind of thing. Of course, if the mother asks me why I decline all future invitations I will say 'Because DD didn't have a nice time last time she came round', but I think anything more than this will just start an ongoing issue at the school, and that would be more harmful to DD than us just cutting them both out of our lives

StanleyLambchop Mon 25-Mar-13 10:25:38

I would say a half-hearted apology is a good result. You can relay it to your daughter, so she knows her experience was not acceptable, and the grown-ups involed have recognised this. It also gives her something to fall back on if the sleepover girl does say anything- 'well, your Mum apologised to my Mum so you know you did something wrong' Also, it may just open the eyes of the sleepover Mum if she is in such denial about her DD. She can't really argue with the other Mum without looking totally deranged.

pigletmania Mon 25-Mar-13 10:27:25

exactly sirchen, it was not only the girls behaviour that was horrid, the mum was well out of order and mean denying your dd the use of the phone to call home, and siding with her dd and the other girls to make your dd feel even more for that. After that it would be a dealbreaker in the friendship and I would not want anything more to do with them again

pigletmania Mon 25-Mar-13 10:28:01

meant to make your dd feel even worse and to prolong her distress and bullying

pigletmania Mon 25-Mar-13 10:28:53

I would never ever deny any child the use of a phone to call home if they wanted to go home, be it a playdate or sleepover that is just nasty

edwardsmum11 Mon 25-Mar-13 10:30:29

I would keep your dd away from this child and her mother tbh. I had a similiar 'friend' till I was in my early twenties and realised how toxic her friendship had been through my childhood and later years.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 10:35:36

I definitely won't be having anything to do with them again. DH agrees and has categorically said that the mother isn't coming into our house again ever. She often suggests meeting up at weekends, and during the holidays, with the girls, and I will be declining all of these, as well as declining any invites for DD to play at their house or for sleepovers.

edwardsmum, I too had a toxic friend at school, and it affected me really negatively, so I am always very keen that my kids drop any toxic friends. DD knows she doesn't want to be friends with this girl anymore, and I'm glad she has the confidence and self esteem to have made that decision to not speak to her.

SirChenjin Mon 25-Mar-13 10:36:14

You obviously know this person and the situation better than any of us on here House smile. Personally, I wouldn't be able to hold back from saying something, and we live in similar small town/smallish school - for me it wouldn't be about confrontation, it would be simply be about letting the mother know that I knew. If what you described had happened to any of my DCs I could not let it go - it's bullying of a child by an adult, and if it had happened in school, for example, or another situation where an adult behaved like that to my child, I would consider that grounds for stepping in. Everyone is different though, so I completely understand that you want to approach things differently.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 10:39:45

That's a very good point, Chenjin. I guess it's not about the apology as such, but more about letting the mother know that I know how she behaved.

samuelwhiskers Mon 25-Mar-13 10:45:17

When I read onwards post I thought, yes, she is right about tackling the issue head on but as you say, you live in a small town and share the same school. Now you know your DD hasn't lied, then the best thing as you say, is totally cut the family off. I had a similar situation with my DD and a very toxic mum and her DD and it ended badly - I should have walked away like you but I fought back and confronted her about a horrible situation and she blew really nastily, I got vile threatening emails. Of course I dropped her like a stone and told my DD to ignore everything at school but looking back, it was better to have walked away at the time and then drop them without the confrontation.

Iamcountingto3 Mon 25-Mar-13 10:51:59

Agree with pinksomething - a quiet "dd said she wanted to come home at one point- if that ever happens again, I'd rather know so you aren't dealing with an upset child" & see what it opens up.
I suspect that the table thing won't seem like such a big deal to her ("My dd wanted me on the table, so I just asked one of the other girls to move - we were all in the same room & chatting...." and the other stuff - whilst hurtful - is going to seem petty if brought up/she didn't see it. Incidentally, I think your dd has dealt with this in a very mature and sensible manner, & I'm sure you've told her so smile

On the call thing - I have lots of sleepovers - and have coached a few children through the 'but I want me mummy noooooowwwwww" stage and out the other side (as long as they are not too distressed of course) I would always tell the other mum of course, but a child asking to phone home once wouldn't automatically be given the phone immediately (I'm talking about younger kids here too)

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 10:53:30

I think sometimes it's a case of picking your battles isn't it samuelwhiskers? I've tried to look at the overall picture and I think in this case it's easiest for our family, including DD of course, to just let it go and to just stop contact with this family.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 10:56:23

DD only wanted to come home because the woman had shouted at her and the other girls were being unkind to her. She normally goes to lots of sleepovers and playdates and isn't a homesick type. I think the fact that the mum didn't let her come home or at least contact me speaks volumes really. I keep thinking why on earth wouldn't someone contact the mum of a child who was upset?! I think she probably knew DD would tell me about what had happened.

Iamcountingto3 Mon 25-Mar-13 10:58:47

Sorry, somehow didn't see the rest of the thread - great that your dd has the validation of the other little girl apologizing - and she really sounds like she's handled this brilliantly. I suspect that the playground gossip will ensure your dd will come out of the events as the better person - supported by at least one of the other sleepover girls.
A quick word with the teacher (& a circle time or similar session on friendships and kindliness) will help validate your daughters choices.

Maryz Mon 25-Mar-13 11:03:16

I would also try to disuade a child from calling home with a "let's see how you feel in half an hour" type supportive chat, but I would then follow that up in the half hour to see how she was.

And if a child asked to go home I would always say to the collecting mother "she had a bit of a wobble and asked to call you, but I distracted her for a bit and she seemed ok later, so I left it" (mainly to cover myself from a child insisting she was upset all night).

There's a big difference between distraction and refusal.

But I think the sitting with the adults she didn't know for dinner was most peculiar - and saying to the mum "dd was a bit upset she couldn't sit with her friends for dinner" might open up a conversation.

pigletmania Mon 25-Mar-13 11:13:24

might do the same as maryz, but if the child still in about half hour wanted to call their mum i would of course allow them to.

pigletmania Mon 25-Mar-13 11:14:16

I would never say no, that is just mean;even if they are homesick hearing the mums voice might be enough to reassure them, or they might just want to go home which of course is fine

moonabove Mon 25-Mar-13 11:15:41

Agree OP, the reason the Mum didn't phone you was that she knew she was in the wrong and behaving badly. That's why I also agree with not confronting her - someone that unpleasant is not going to react well however tactful or non-confrontational you are about it. Once she starts putting the blame on your dd (which is most likely to be her tactic) it's going to push your buttons and the whole thing could blow up very nastily.

Glad to hear about the follow-up text from the other mum. Sounds that nasty behaviour is going to rebound on the birthday DD and hopefully teach her and her rotten mum a valuable lesson.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 11:19:32

That's what I'm hoping, moonabove. Karma and all that!

It was quite out of character for the second child to get involved in that kind of thing; she's normally a fairly quiet girl, and is lovely, as are her parents and her brother. I think she was just led, and like I said I think the girls just used an opportunity to get at DD.

I think DD is the kind of child that some may be jealous of; she's popular, intelligent, gets picked for lead roles in plays and assemblies, got asked to recently show some of her work at a meeting with visitors to the school as it was a high standard, and she is also a very pretty girl with lots of nice things (not spoilt though!). I think it could well have been jealousy with the birthday girl.

SirChenjin Mon 25-Mar-13 11:24:12

Yes, sounds very much like she (and her mother) were determined that the Birthday Girl was going to be the star of the whole performance that night. Honestly, what is it with some mothers and their offspring?? Do they have nothing else going on in their lives at which to direct their energy?

SirChenjin Mon 25-Mar-13 11:25:58

Which reminds me - I have a whole house that needs cleaning before I head back to work, and MNetting isn't going to get those loos scrubbed!! I hope it all works out well for your DD and you House smile

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 11:28:58

I think you are very right Chenjin. The mother definitely likes her DD to be the centre of attention. The DD always gets her own way.

Oh gosh, I am with you on the housework thing! I always think the 3 hours whilst my youngest is at nursery will be plenty of time to get housework done and it's never enough as I spend all my time on the internet!

Floggingmolly Mon 25-Mar-13 11:33:39

I'm still confused. What "repercussions" are you afraid of??
And as to your questioning what use a half hearted apology would be; no particular value in itself but your child will have seen you stand up for her in a bullying situation, rather than you teaching her to say nothing and keep her head down when something doesn't sit right with her.
Are you happy to give her that message?

EggMcDunnough Mon 25-Mar-13 11:37:14

I totally agree with you OP - I'd not be confronting her at all. There's no point - it won't improve anything, she will know perfectly well already what she has done, and it doesn't matter anyway as you and your lovely dd won't be having anything more to do with them.

She will know why you maintain a dignified silence in response to her texts or calls. People like that are not worth confronting.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 11:38:48

The repercussions I've mentioned several times in this thread and that others have mentioned too Floggingmolly smile

Thank you EggMcDunnough, I think you are right, she will know, unless she is incredibly stupid, why I won't be having anymore to do with her.

EggMcDunnough Mon 25-Mar-13 11:41:09

Your dd is not being given a negative message. Not at all. In fact I think it very positive - not to engage with toxic people if it's not necessary and to walk away and carry on with your life.

If the person is not toxic and had upset you unintentionally and will actually be sorry, their friendship is worth a confrontation. Otherwise what is the point. The toxic person will get a sense of gratification is all.

Floggingmolly Mon 25-Mar-13 11:44:26

Re. the jealousy thing; why would they invite her in the first place? Unless you're imagining some sort of machiavellian plot to put your dd in her place? hmm

lljkk Mon 25-Mar-13 11:50:13

I frequently on here see posts by adults saying they don't fall out with people that upset them, they just cut them out of their life and move on.

Unless you have toxic neighbours like mine who develop a kind of persecution complex because I stopped speaking to them. confused.

I don't think you have any good choices, OP. I hope things settle down peacefully enough.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 11:50:28

Floggingmolly, you are reading lots of things into my posts that simply aren't there. And what's with all the hmm faces?

I'm just thinking of reasons as to why they may have been horrible to DD. Of course I'm not imagining some sort of plot. hmm

samuelwhiskers Mon 25-Mar-13 12:02:30

Yes house, it is a case of picking your battles and since you have said that there might be a lot of jealousy involved here, I would draw a line under that family. The mother is obviously toxic. She knew that your DD wanted to go home because she was being treated atrociously by both herself and her DD but decided to make her stay for some reason, probably because she was worried about what she might say to you when you picked her up early. Definitely a guilty conscience.

pigletmania Mon 25-Mar-13 12:14:04

flogging sometimes it is just better to walk away, like adults do when we do not want to be friends with someone anymore who is toxic. Your dd knows already that you are supporting her so you do not need to have a barny with the other mum to do this. As others have been in similar situations whereby it turned nasty, so sometimes better to walk away and do things peacefully

WileyRoadRunner Mon 25-Mar-13 12:23:21

Right OP I think you are doing the correct thing.

My DD had a "situation" whilst playing at someone's house which resulted in a hospital visit. I was very angry .... there is an AIBU thread somewhere but I too was urged to confront the other mother about what had gone on.

I did make clear to the other mother that I was deeply unhappy and very angry about what had gone on. As expected she attempted to deny anything was her to do with her children blah blah despite other parents confirming what my DD had told me. I just stayed silent when she went down that road. Have said nothing since. What's the point? She's not going to take responsibility.

Ironically my daughter is very popular and the other girl and the father apologised which makes her mother's denial look quite stupid and the girls are all as happy as ever. Sadly though no one nw wants to go to this girls house and so she misses out. I have no doubt that the mother now realises if she had just apologised and dealt with the issue her DD wouldn't be missing out.

Fecklessdizzy Mon 25-Mar-13 12:39:09

I'm with the walk-away-and-blank-them-forever team. If asked why you can tell them but having a bust-up will embarrass you and your daughter and get you nowhere. Indifference is the best revenge! grin

shewhowines Mon 25-Mar-13 12:40:29

I think the mother will get the message load and clear, when all invites are declined and none issued. Her daughter has already received the loud and clear message this morning when she was ignored. We know this as she appeared embarrassed. So no confrontation but definite consequences.

Sometimes it is better to keep a dignified silence, although like you, if asked why you've declined an invite, I would say because DD didn't have a nice time and wasn't allowed to phone home.

EggMcDunnough Mon 25-Mar-13 12:41:00

This is it.

Your attitude in the face of her weirdness (and sounds like she had a part in encouraging what happened) has to be one of '<sigh>'

like, you know her game, you're not getting involved. She is doing it to feel important and reacting will just be joining in the game, albeit as an innocent party. Don't do it.

hatsybatsy Mon 25-Mar-13 13:00:28

this sounds v similar to what happened to me as a child - one mother treated me really badly on and off through primary school. she was just a very toxic individual

as long as you reassure you daughter that it's not true, that she's a lovely person, and that you continue to invite the kids she does like (but probably not that girl), she will be unscathed.

FWIW I wouldn't approach the mother about it in any way. If you move in the same circles, then the agro of seeking an apology for something she doesn't consider to have been wrong is simply not worth the hassle it will cause.

KNow that your daugter was in the right and this woman behaved very badly, and move on.

lainiekazan Mon 25-Mar-13 13:23:05

Slight diversion:

At first I thought the PAYG phone idea a good one, but on thinking about it I don't think it is at all. Imagine being phoned at 3am by your dc!

When ds went on a residential trip at primary school phones were absolutely banned. The teachers said that homesick children could nearly always be comforted. If there was an emergency of course the parents would be called, but it would be bedlam if dcs were calling their parents at all hours of the night. (Actually I don't think any of them wanted to come home at all they were having such a whale of a time!)

OnwardBound Mon 25-Mar-13 14:19:33

I am a bit stunned by the walk away tactic tbh.

So this woman effectively held your DD hostage, by not letting her call home to get her mother to collect her and you are not going to call her on it hmm

I wouldn't ring her to get an apology, I mean if she wants to apologise that's up to her but you can't control her behaviour.

But OPs DD was distressed and ignored and belittled in her distress and her mother doesn't want to have plain clear words with the adult concerned because it might make trouble?

Unless you anticipate having rocks thrown through your windows I really fail to see what trouble can be caused that a grown adult cannot rise above confused

I really really don't understand this.

cjel Mon 25-Mar-13 14:34:37

I think that your dd has been reassured enough by you to know she wasn't wrong. The fact that the other girls was upset enough for her mum to apologise is also huge support for dd. The way the birthday girl was embarrassed also shows a recognitions of wrong which is healthy. Any confrontation, however 'gently' done will now seem a bit passive aggressive.Poor birthday girl will learn that the way her mother treats people isn't right, 'just saying' anything to the mother will achieve nothing and in fact be a bad example to dd. I also had the thought (has happened with my DCs and DGcs) they sort it out themselves and if you've stirred it up with the mums its more than awkward. How would you feel if in the future they became mates and wanted to get together? ultimately you can support and guide your DCs but can't live their lives for them.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 14:40:13

cjel, what a great post! my thoughts exactly.

DD is very confident, and has healthy self esteem and doesn't blame herself for it in any way. Instead she knows it is the girl and her mum that have the problem and not her.

I'm really mindful of the fact that in future they may be friends again (although obviously I would keep a watchful eye and DD won't be going there for any playdates or sleepovers!) as, who knows, the birthday girl could possibly see for herself she has done wrong and apologise to DD. Whilst if I speak to the mum a hornet's nest may be stirred up and it might make things more complicated for DD in the long run.

Onward bound, you may have said the rocks thing in jest, but yes, that is the kind of thing that I do worry about. The mum herself isn't a tough nut but she does have a brother that is, and who steps in to defend her at times. The last thing I want is for my DH to end up with a punch in the face, or for us to end up with a brick through our window. I just don't think the mum would take any confrontation, however nice, very well at all, and would escalate it. If she was the type that would take confrontation well and apologise profusely then I don't think she'd have acted as she did in the first place....

OnwardBound Mon 25-Mar-13 15:34:26

Okay but if this woman is so scary that you imagine physical repercussions if she is crossed in any way, why then would you allow your 9 year old to stay at her house?

And cjel, how can it be passive aggressive to speak plainly and assertively or to ask a straight question about what happened?

Isn't it more passive aggressive to later ignore the person concerned without speaking up about what the actual issue is?

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 15:37:29

I don't think passive aggressive behaviour is as bad as it seems to be painted here on MN. There is a place for passive aggressive behaviour and sometimes it is the best way to go. Not everyone wants to get into a confrontation.

As it happens, DD has had a good day at school. Birthday girl tried to talk to her several times and DD ignored her and declined birthday girl's request to play with her at lunchtime.

moonabove Mon 25-Mar-13 15:44:11

Just one thought - if your advice to DD is to ignore birthday girl (bg) it might get turned around by bg and her mum that your DD is bullying her. Have you had a chance to talk to the teacher about it yet? Might be best to do that soon to pre-empt any trouble of that sort.

LandofTute Mon 25-Mar-13 15:47:22

The OP is not confronting the woman because she feels it would be in her dd's best interest not to. I think she has handled it well

EggMcDunnough Mon 25-Mar-13 15:50:00

I don't see how any of it is passive aggression. Assertive would be more like it - you either say something or you say nothing, ignore and move on with your lives.
Sometimes it is just not worthwhile to engage with another party.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 25-Mar-13 16:06:01

The thing that worries me is that your DD does not have the choice to walk away from toxic people- the comparison someone made earlier.

At some point she is going to have a confrontation with the Birthday girl, one which other children may be a party to and have opinions about.

So in essence, you are leaving herto deal with it, whilst you don't

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 25-Mar-13 16:06:39

I see moonabove makes a similar point

pigletmania Mon 25-Mar-13 16:15:04

I think it's perfectly justifiable that op dd us ignoring the girl, would you talk to someone who is mean and nasty. You can let teacher know of the situation so sh can keep an eye

KellyElly Mon 25-Mar-13 16:16:55

That mother would be in a world of shit with me.

StanleyLambchop Mon 25-Mar-13 16:29:59

So what are you going to say if sleepover mum phones you tonight to ask why your DD ignored her DD all day long? What if tough nut brother takes offence at DNeice being ignored and decides to lob stones at windows anyway? Have you informed the school of what happened?

BuiltForComfort Mon 25-Mar-13 16:31:47

OP fwiw I think you've taken the right route here. Just to add a word of caution though about your DD blanking the horrid birthday girl. I don't think that will harm for day, it sends out a message that her behaviour was noted and is being reacted to. But if it goes on, your DD may end up being seen as the bully or bad guy. I would counsel that she keeps her distance but is civil and coolly friendly. No need to play together but no need to blank outright either. That way your DD gets to keep the moral high ground rather than being seen as the mean girl who ignores / excludes the other girl (not saying she is mean, but people are good at turning these things around ...)

OnwardBound Mon 25-Mar-13 16:33:02

Agree Jamie.

Sorry OP,I know you are trying to do what feels right but I fear you may be leaving your daughter to deal with the unpleasant behaviour of this family.

This family have form for confrontation which leaves you fearful of saying anything to them but your 9 year old daughter still went alone to stay the night at their home.

Now when there may be issues between the girls, based on what happened at this home, and the adult responsible not only failed to act but also exacerbated the situation, you are still loathe to speak up?

cjel Mon 25-Mar-13 18:49:02

I would also try to encourage dd to now do what she feels is right and not to feel that she has to start being horrid to birthday girl, I know its a nightmare but that is life and relationships. Just because bg is horrid doesn't mean that dd has to be as well. My DD has ended up good friends with girls like this because we handled it the right way.If dd could see why bg may behave like this - because of her need to feel loved /important it could help. Not to teach her to accept being treated badly but to enable her to learn why some feel the need to bully.Everyone has off days and even the most loving families have disagreements I'd ask is there any of you who haven't said or done something to DCs or DPs that you later regretted?

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 19:13:57

I haven't told DD to be horrid to the child. I have, however, advised her to be polite but to keep this girl at arm's length. they are in separate classes anyway, and as I've mentioned DD has a solid group of best friends. Ultimately I have said to DD it is up to her how she is with this girl but she says she doesn't wish to be friends with her anymore. Neither would I. If someone was that unpleasant to me they would be taken straight off my 'friends list' and treated politely but coolly in future.

I think it's important to teach children that they don't have to put up with any old rubbish and they don't have to be treated badly. I think DD will be fine. She's not a bully and she won't bully this girl, but equally she won't forget how this girl - and her mum - have treated her.

cjel Mon 25-Mar-13 19:25:30

Sorry OP I wasn't saying that you were, I was trying to say to other people that the escalating of bad behaviour wasn't a good idea. I think you've handled this exactly as it should have been dealt with . well done.

housefullofnoisykids Mon 25-Mar-13 19:26:12

Thank you cjel smile

YellowTulips Mon 25-Mar-13 20:57:30

I am with you on this OP. We are not talking about sustained bullying here, rather a one off incident. I can't see waging war on the mother would be productive. Better to simply to blank. The best lesson if you want friends is to be nice to them and in reverse you don't have to put up/socialise with people who are nasty. If the mother brings it up I would be honest but I wouldn't start a dialogue with her or the school.

ProphetOfDoom Mon 25-Mar-13 21:18:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pigletmania Tue 26-Mar-13 07:49:01

I totally agree. Confrontation is not always a good thing and does not always achieve results. My mum used to go in and intervene at every falling out, it used to embarrass me and certainly was detrimental. Your dd should be polite and civil to te girl and that's all, you have nothing more to do with them. Explain the situation to your dd teacher for tem to keep an eye out for any bullying. I would do the same house. Your dd knows you love her and support her you don't have to go in all guns blazing to prove that

pigletmania Tue 26-Mar-13 08:10:08

If After blanking and refusing playmates with this girl the mum confronts you, then you can tell her

Tailtwister Tue 26-Mar-13 08:26:41

This woman would have to be an absolute fool not to realise her behaviour was completely unacceptable. I would be extremely surprised if she chose to challenge OP. She will be aware that at least one other mother is aware of her disgusting behaviour and no doubt the news will make the rounds throughout other parents too.

I think you're doing the right thing OP. Of course you would be well within your rights to confront this woman, but tbh I think your approach will be far more effective.

Turniphead1 Tue 26-Mar-13 08:30:44

Tailtwister - sadly I think you are wrong. People who act like this woman did genuinely think its ok and will turn aggressive when challenged. Or deep down know its wrong but will still get aggressive when challenged.

I agree with those who say walk away and tell your DD to avoid her. Nothing you do or say will change this woman or alter her behaviour.

mrsjay Tue 26-Mar-13 08:48:20

your poor dd seems she had a horrible time what a shame , children can be really mean to each other I think she needs to stay away from sleep overs for a while just incase the teasing happens again, I think the dinner set up was weird and unfair I dont think there is anything you can do now though, just try and avoid your dd being alone with them for a while,

mrsjay Tue 26-Mar-13 08:50:20

tailtwister this woman will see there is nothing wrong in her behaviour she wont admit the girls were mean to the little girl and see no harm in letting a liite girl sit with people she doesn't know as long as her own dd was happy as it was her birthday and would defend the party to the bitter end, imo

Mopswerver Tue 26-Mar-13 09:01:00

Not sure I would raise it now but if you have a spare mobile I would pack it with her things if she stays over somewhere again. Show her how to call up your number then she can call if she wants to come home.

DD2 is v sensitive. Doesn't make friends easily and is often left out. It's more common than you think, especially at this age. I am currently reading this book and so far it is brilliant: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0316917303/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It gives social skills strategies that help your child make friends but does so in a very user friendly way. At the end of the day it is better if you can help them to resolve these things themselves without you wading in. Obviously some situations call for that but if done too often that can make things worse.

Reading this thread with interest.

HollaAtMeBaby Tue 26-Mar-13 09:18:46

I think you've handled it well, OP. Cannot get over the woman refusing to let your upset child ring home! Are the mothers of the other girls who were at the sleepover aware of this? Did you mention it to the one who texted you? I can't believe anyone would let their child sleep over at a house where that might happen.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs Tue 26-Mar-13 09:21:24

Wow- I have a 9yo dd, and the thought of this happening to her is heart-breaking, so i feel for you OP, and can imagine how angry you must have been.

I do think you are doing the right thing not confronting the other mum, though- most inter-mum confrontations I have witnessed seem to turn into screeching harpies, no matter how civilised they start out!

I would second others that you let the school know, though. I had a similar issue with my younger dd, and told her just not to play with the girls who were making her life miserable. they then went to the teacher crying and dd got into trouble!! I had to let the teacher know exactly what was going on, and then she was very supportive, so although i didn't really want to run to the school "telling tales" in retrospect it would have been better if I had given them the heads-up, so dd could deal with it without getting into trouble!

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