to be worried about Universal Credit

(969 Posts)
idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:21:42

I am in the lucky position of not needing to claim this but I am so worried about its implementation.

Its coming in in the Autumn and is going to be an online only, monthly, postdated payment. It will be paid to one adult in the family unit.

All well and did if you are god at managing your money, internet literate and in a stable relationship. But in the real world....

How are the most vulnerable in society going to have a chance with this?

Already the council tax changes are coming in and as far as I understand people are confused and shell shocked by it. UC is much bigger and no one is prepared.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:22:09

should read good sorry

It's the vulnerable who will suffer, it always is.

wannabeEostregoddess Sat 23-Mar-13 20:31:36

The online part makes me laugh tbh.

Broadband is a luxury to benefit claimants dontcha know?

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:33:09

it feels to me like a tsunami that everyone is ignoring.

the Autumn is not far away and yet when I spoke to my local councillor about it they knew so little about it.

Viviennemary Sat 23-Mar-13 20:35:05

I think it is worrying for people because the details are not yet know so people don't know how much it will affect them. And if they will have less money after they are moved onto UC.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 23-Mar-13 20:35:27

I think it's actually a good idea having the monthly payments. I remember coming off of IS and into work and being terrified about losing the security IS/JSA gives you.

Least with monthly you can budget so much better, buy online big baulks of things like toilet roll/pasta/offers and save yourself money and from the UC calculator it seems your better off then with tax creds and jsa.

wannabeEostregoddess Sat 23-Mar-13 20:37:45

I dont think anyone will be better off. I think its just more lies told by politicians to placate people until its too late for them to do anything about it.

noisytoys Sat 23-Mar-13 20:38:29

It is very scary. And I have a debt from when tax credits was mis calculated that is being paid off weekly by reduction in tax credits. Will that continue under universal credit or will I have to pay the whole lot off in one lot? sad

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:39:58

inneed I get what you say but time people lead such dysfunctional lives that they can't manage monthly. Feels like Christmas will come early for the payday lenders and their ilk.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:40:40

bloody predictive text some

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 23-Mar-13 20:42:52

I worry about the implementation and I very much doubt this will work.

The government is shit at big computer projects and all the UC pilots have ended up riddled with error.

Morals aside, I think it is very unlikely this will actually work physically.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 20:44:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 23-Mar-13 20:45:34

I also really like the idea of being able to input your hours and have it changed accordingly so your not hit with a huge repayment bill off tax credits!

I do see what your saying about people not being able to budget but when (if) they get a job (which they should) they will have to manage their money monthly anyway. Would of helped me so much more when I came off IS having to wait 6 weeks for my first payday if I had been paid a monthly amount before.

Those money lenders payday provident company's should be made illegal.

ballstoit Sat 23-Mar-13 20:45:42

I'm very worried for some of my DCs classmates. One child in DDs class for example, wouldnt eat on Monday and Tuesday if school and other parents didn't supply food, as Mum runs out of money. Lots of children are hungry when they return to school after christmas as benefits paid a week early in December mean no money for a week after Christmas.
I just dont see how money will be saved by Universal Credit. The cost of emergency housing, social services, NHS when people drink a months money in a couple of days, just means that the money will just be spent from a different budget.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 23-Mar-13 20:47:51

But why is it the govs job to support neglect, and if your not feeding your dc that is neglect, if you can't manage your money to that extent where you don't even have beans on toast to give them then you need more help then weekly payments and you need to take care of your dc properly.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:52:25

inneed it is our responsibility as a civilised society to ensure that the vulnerable are cared for, be they old, ill or in poverty.

Viviennemary Sat 23-Mar-13 20:53:53

I still think a lot of people will find it hard to budget for a whole month if they have been used to weekly payments. People will not make the money stretch and I agree that payday loans and lots of problems will arise from this. The Tories will simply not have a clue about this.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:55:43

I predict an increase in petty crime. That's going to have a direct effect on `society`.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 20:56:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 20:57:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Booyhoo Sat 23-Mar-13 20:57:45


UC and it's effect terrify me. i am so worried not just for myself and my dcs but for so many people who are already struggling so much. this will devastate so many lives sad

TheCrackFox Sat 23-Mar-13 21:04:19

There will be riots by December.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 23-Mar-13 21:05:45

OP yes and that means not letting dc starve, if you can't budget your money for a week to cover food then you shouldn't have dc since you can't look after them. There is no real poverty in this country it's neglect and neglect is a form of abuse against your dc. It's complete bullshit that they don't have enough money to put some form of food into their child, the money is there it's what they are spending it on instead. I have been there on benefits with my pre payment meter and storage heaters taking £50PW and both dc needing school shoes at the same time with christmas 2 weeks away but have never had nothing to feed them with ever and would have welcomed UC then. UC will mean being able to buy big tubs of washing powder not the rip off 99p for a poxy 4 washes washing powder.

There is a reason one of the forst things a social worker does on a home visit is look into your cupboards.

vivizone Sat 23-Mar-13 21:06:34

Never head of it.

vivizone Sat 23-Mar-13 21:06:46


propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 23-Mar-13 21:07:08

Given the fiasco of government to date this term surely to God no-one will ever vote Conservative ever again? Fingers crossed the cunts get booted come summer 2015 and the UC system will be dismantled with them. It will be too late for plenty of kids though. New claimants will be moving across from Oct 2013 sad

marjproops Sat 23-Mar-13 21:08:54

Im worried about the increase in crime too.

and as for UC. well, words fail me.

Im already low on things, and I budget like anything.

I NEVER waste money, dont have a cred card and never wilol, i save for things but not going to be able to do that much ay more.

fed up not ever being able to afford a holiday, EVER, you can only go to parks and museums so many times.

now with councuil tax and bedroom tax (and have to move now, another upheaval for an autistic child) and food gone up (they want you to buy fairtrade but have you seen the prices?).

fed up with lying cheating politicians. lining theiir pockets.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:14:54

inneed you are right that it is the kids that suffer but it is too black and white to say 'don't have kids if you can't afford them '

I have x4 dc. today i can afford them but what if DS were to leave or die or go to prison and I developed a drug habit.....

My point is that we as a society are not prepared for the implications of UC. We appear to have lost every vestige of humanity and there will be real consequences.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 21:15:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nomorebuttons Sat 23-Mar-13 21:15:56

All though Universal Credit is going live in October, it will initially only be rolled out in one major northern city. As of October only new claims of single people (within that northern city) will be made as Universal Credit whilst they iron out the issues with it. It won't go live across the country for quite some time yet.

Dawndonna Sat 23-Mar-13 21:19:39

There is no real poverty in this country it's neglect and neglect is a form of abuse against your dc.
Complete bunkum. And just because you have been there and managed doesn't for one second mean others will.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 21:19:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:21:57

from April 2014 all new claims nationwide will be via this system.

that is only a year away

CremeEggThief Sat 23-Mar-13 21:22:37

I am worried too, particularly because of the lack of clear, accurate information about UC.

People should be trained and helped to budget monthly if they are used to budgeting weekly on I.S./ JSA. To me, it seems they are being set up to fail sad.

vivizone Sat 23-Mar-13 21:22:44

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS, I honestly believe a majority of those who voted for Conservative did so because of immigration and nothing more. Example, Sun readers. They tend to be working class but got so caught up with the propaganda re immigration, they forgot that Conservatives are not their friend. Now they are experiencing the cuts, their heads are spinning. All they can shout out is 'UKIP' another party promising to bash the heads of immigrants.

I will read up re this Credit thing.

One thing I will give Conservative credit for is they have played a blinding game in dividing people. I can't remember the last time where people where out for each others neck.

Meglet Sat 23-Mar-13 21:23:58

I don't like the idea of it being paid to just one adult within the fanily. Isn't that going to be a goldmine for abusive parters to control their other halves?

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 23-Mar-13 21:25:37

I've just googled and found some 'roll out' detail:

Plus From April 2013 UC will trial in four areas of Greater Manchester and Cheshire: Wigan, Tameside, Oldham and Warrington.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 21:27:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 23-Mar-13 21:29:27

Agree Vivi.

marjproops Sat 23-Mar-13 21:30:04

idiuntno57 i seriously hope you are joking about a drug habit. hmm

feeding children and looking after them without being in a haze is the priority, nOT a drug habit which unfortunaelty is why a LOT of children go hungry to school. as other posters have said,

some probs are serious but others its neglect.

ive gone without to feed and clothe DC (should be a halo emoticon!!!!)

(and before anyone points out the obv, ill defend computer was kindly donated to me and a good friend pays for my internet use as these days evryone contacts you through emails and stuff)

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:30:42

and meglet what if your family us more fluid than the conservative ideal of married with two DS from this union:

mum with series of partners, learning difficulties, troubled kids, abuse etc. ...managing her finances online isn't going to be a walk in the park

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 23-Mar-13 21:31:32

Shit, Second. Maybe if the pilot is disastrous (and crime rises/children are starving etc) then the scheme will be scrapped

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:33:04

marj i wasn't joking. Trying to say that circumstances do change not always for the better and UC is not going to help

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 21:33:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

marjproops Sat 23-Mar-13 21:34:47

also found out that theyre not helping with mobility any more.

great. a mother and child with disabilities who cant walk for long...ermm....hello? and countless others.

but who to vote for next time then?

marjproops Sat 23-Mar-13 21:36:28

I predict a riot...I predict a la la.

Thats what itll come to, peoplenare fedup with this and therell be civil (why do they call it civil?) war soon, us and them.

BreconBeBuggered Sat 23-Mar-13 21:36:49

However well you budget your benefits, I can't see how it's possible for a claimant's final weekly or fortnightly payment to stretch out until the first monthly one arrives. And that's assuming there are no IT glitches to fuck people up.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:41:22

I feel like during through Westminster naked screaming 'you have nooo idea` to the complacent politicians of all parties.

Now THAT would out me grin

wannabeEostregoddess Sat 23-Mar-13 21:41:25

SS never once checked my cupboards. What a load of shit!

And its not all about "budgeting" either. I budget us to the last penny. But if outgoings exceed income, budgets cant fix it.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 23-Mar-13 21:42:23

I would guess the food bans are going to be very busy. Hopefully school will be clued up and hopefully kindness of staff will ensure that vulnerable children are given food in school sad.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 23-Mar-13 21:42:39

Food banks

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:44:17


butterfingerz Sat 23-Mar-13 21:44:39

I'm from one of those Cheshire towns though living in South now. It will be interesting to see as most of the town live in social housing and many will be entirely dependent on benefits. I know a lot are very worried about the bedroom tax, because the council houses are all 3 bedroom, theres hardly any two bedroom, so lots of people will be a suffering a reduction in HB unless they can get out under one of the clauses. Re the UC, I doubt any of them will know its being piloted there unless theres a letter thats gone out, it'll hit them like a ton of bricks.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:45:24

after UC I am most annoyed by predictive messaging

butterfingerz Sat 23-Mar-13 21:48:03

I also wonder how my mum will be affected, she has a permanent lifelong disability but I've seen that even some with similar conditions have been told theyre no longer entitled.

idiuntno57 Sat 23-Mar-13 21:50:44

we all seem so focused on our own problems (understandably) that this huge issue is just going to slip by.

We are all responsible for the land we live in.

MisForMumNotMaid Sat 23-Mar-13 21:52:22

Yet they haven't yet established how passport benefits will work like free school meals so no one yet knows if they'll be able to get them.

I'm worried for the children being fed and kept warm.

Moving from weekly to monthly budgeting is a big deal and people will dig themselves into big holes quickly then a percentage will turn to petty crime which has a knock on effect on everyone else.

We're in the process of moving to Warrington. Try googling universal credit Warrington to get any information on it. Its meant to be live in April (isn't that a week away?)

RambleOn Sat 23-Mar-13 22:33:19

I've just found an online calculator, and it says I should be better off hmm


ballstoit Sat 23-Mar-13 22:34:00

That 'minimum' amount that people need to live on is nose being taxed though isn't it, that's another thing that's quietly slipped in.

Because that Mum who struggles to feed her dd, is now going to be paying £14 a month council tax (the amount varies from area to area). She's taking entry level literacy lessons, and now has to travel into town fortnightly to sign on for JSA (another £10 a month to find for bus fares), to explain why she's not found work (being unable to read and write may have something to do with it). Society has clearly failed Mum, or she'd have left school able to cope with adult life, and now it's going to fail her daughter. She's not wilfully neglectful, she just can't manage what is now expected of her. And ironically, the family support worker who could perhaps have helped her manage, has had her post deleted in the latest round of cuts our labour council has been forced to make.

RambleOn Sat 23-Mar-13 22:38:25

Ha ha, just recalculated and it's 30p a week grin

threebats Sat 23-Mar-13 22:48:58

brandy Lets look at your post:
if you can't budget your money for a week to cover food then you shouldn't have dc
So what do you propose is done? Forced abortions? Or do as the Aussies did and chain the woman to the bed and take the child away from her? Or perhaps every pregnant woman needs to undergo a test to see if she can financially support a child in a crisis or not in a crisis and if not? Just sterilise her. Its for her own good, she should not have children.
How about the women, for example, with Down's who have children? I suppose, going by your post, they should not have children - plenty of love to give a child but unable to manage their finances? What would you propose we do to those ladies?
Its NOT an ideal world. Women/couples with problems/disabilities have children. As a society we are duty bound to care for those more vulnerable and at risk and unable to manage than we are.
Think carefully before you make sweeping statements that women should not have children.

The real, actual poverty of this country is the lack of compassion shown to others by people who think they are somehow superior because 'they managed quite well when times got tough for them' - Its the way those in need, those struggling, those with problems are looked down upon, shoved aside and made to feel small because they can not cope well with managing money or cope well when having a crisis or they just, for whatever reason it is, can't cope.

Mandy2003 Sat 23-Mar-13 22:48:58

SecondComing - can you outline the concerns raised at the meeting especially crime and disorder?

Speaking of drugs - I'm sure some people will decide that if you can get a whole month's money in one go you can buy a whole lot of drugs and deal for the rest of the month <devil face>

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 23-Mar-13 23:04:57

I don't understand how any woman as a mother who would put drink/fags/drugs/anything above putting food into her dc mouths so I can't envisage myself in that situation I can't envisage the answer. I remember hearing about this lady who starved herself and ended up in hospital but her dd still ate. (think it was the netmums campaign thing they did a year or so ago)

Yes it's hard on JSA/IS yes all the bills have gone up but there is no reason why you can't at least do beans on toast/pasta and cheese/value crap. There is no reason why in this country your dc are starving apart from neglect this is not a third world country.

I'm not saying things are not fucked but UC isn't the problem and I know a lot of my friends and circle are happy that it's monthly and easy to manage if you get over time or your hours change it's sounding like it will be simple unlike tax credits.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 23:07:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sat 23-Mar-13 23:08:57

I worry about that first month when it switches over. Some bills are bound to need paying before that first post dated payment where usually a weekly IS or JSA would pay it. That's where the payday loans people will get their claws into the vulnerable.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 23:11:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 23-Mar-13 23:18:35

TSC I can grasp it quite fine thank you, a few times I have switched from out of work IS to working and all your benefits stop apart from CB and your left high and dry. You manage because you have to.

Ok the first month will be hard if they're not paying the months money at the start of the month (does anyone know for sure thats how they are paying it?) but I'm not sure why no one else on this thread doesn't grasp that monthly money in a larger amount that you can make go further every month until you get a job is better?

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 23-Mar-13 23:19:32

InNeedOf- Cheese?! You have no fucking clue. Jam is a more likely sandwich filler.

ilovesooty Sat 23-Mar-13 23:22:42

I work with offenders, most of whom struggle to budget now. UC will ensure that crime goes through the roof.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 23-Mar-13 23:25:49

Yes inneed, that's exactly how they are going to do it.

And your talking rubbish because when you go from out of work benefits to being in work at the moment most of your benefits run on in some form (100% of some of them)as if you were not in work for the first 4 weeks to account for monthly wages even if you are not paid monthly

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 23-Mar-13 23:26:34

Or maybe it will make people learn the hard way to manage their money. I remember once my electric ran out the evening before I got paid, my electric never ever ran out again after that.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 23-Mar-13 23:27:23

By exactly how they are intending to do it I mean 1 weeks money then nothing for 5 weeks when you then get 4 weeks money.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 23-Mar-13 23:28:03

The only benefit that runs on is HB and council tax which isn't money in your pocket and CB which is fuck all really. IS and tax credits stop thats your shopping money, electric bills stopped. No not rubbish speaking from RL experience.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sat 23-Mar-13 23:32:35

You can't manage money you don't have. Not everyone on benefits has a meter and can top as and when. My bill comes out every month the same day, the same amount. I can't just choose to try and conserve energy so I can delay topping it up. I could start saving now to try and get an amount ready to cover the bill in case it pops up in that no mans land month but then there's the gas bill, the phone etc. I can't save up enough to cover those. Then when the monthly amount is paid to me phew I can pay those bills late but what about the next month? Ill be behind forever unless they let me change it all around. Its not just the first month that will be affected by this.

TheSecondComing Sat 23-Mar-13 23:37:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 23-Mar-13 23:38:49

No you can claim in work credit they also had another thing called something different but I can't remember what and was attached to is and ESA when is became ESA.

Under the old rules you got a additional payment for 4 weeks with the in work credit you can get up to £60 a week for up to 52 weeks.

Uc will be linked to real time employment reports but that will only make it easier for hmrc not the claiment,its a scheme that is intended to combat fraud and that's it not to be convienint or helpful and it won't be. Even hmrc admit that.

littlemisssarcastic Sat 23-Mar-13 23:41:34

If you go from IS/tax credits into work before the 31st March 2013 you do have to wait for your wages, yes, but if you have been out of work for 6 months or more, you do get a back to work bonus. This helps enormously. You get 4 weeks of your rent and council tax paid. That is a huge help.

Going from IS/JSA to UC, there will be a gap of a month between receiving your weekly tax credits/JSA/IS before you receive anymore money.

That will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible for many many people to cope on. Many many people wont be able to afford the basics for their DC during the long long wait for money. sad

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Booyhoo Sat 23-Mar-13 23:57:16

how do you 'learn the hard way' to budget when you have nothing to budget with? hmm

how do you get electric after the first week when you only have enough for 1 week? how do you cook? how do you buy food to cook? i dont know about you brandy but 4 weeks without food isn't going to leave me better able to budget £0.00.

pedrohedges Sun 24-Mar-13 00:01:32

Is it true that they will pay us a month behind? How will we eat during that first month?

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 00:01:58

Is it definitely confirmed that they will give the last weekly payment and then leave a gap of four weeks? Thinking about it, wouldn't they do last weekly payment and then the following week will be the monthly payment in advance? Or do we wait four weeks because it will be backdated/in arrears/whatever the word is? Does this mean everyone will be a month behind forever? I mean, if bank of mum and dad rescued me in that situation just for the sake of an example, I'd never be square with them as every month id pay them back but then have £0 so borrow it again. People will have nowhere to turn sad

bluecarrot Sun 24-Mar-13 00:06:27

TSC - would a crisis loan be a possibility? I haven't had any experience of them.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 24-Mar-13 00:08:35

Crisis loans are being abolished.

And all benefits are paid in arrears always.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 00:12:19

So basically, any of us receiving benefits are fucked sad I wouldn't mind monthly payments if they were bridging that one month gap better but this is a nightmare.

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 00:13:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 00:16:38

Have the government been asked about this when UC is mentioned in the media and stuff? How families will cope with it?

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 00:18:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Booyhoo Sun 24-Mar-13 00:18:52

yes sneezing. unless they miraculously decide to give everyone a one month 'freebie' (they wont) then the knock on effect of this really will devastate people financially. people will be forever chasing their tails.

can i ask a question please?

i had a look at the UC calculator linked to above and in the breakdown of the payment one section was called 'child support'. i'm assuming that is the new term for what is currently child tax credits and child benefit? it gave a figure that of £113(something pence) per week, however currently (on IS with 2 children) i receive £114.04 CTC and £33.70 CB making a total of £147.74. why is there going to be a reduction of almost £35 or is the calculator wrong?

Booyhoo Sun 24-Mar-13 00:23:22

also. i wasn't able to select northern ireland as my location. is NI being affected differently to the rest of the UK?

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 00:25:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 00:26:53

I don't have meters sad just a bill based on the previous six months. Its a new rental so they are charging me £50 a month for the first six for electric and £50 for gas but I don't see it going down by much in October when it could start where I live. I miss having meters sad I can't stockpile anything either as we live down to the pound right now due to our financial situation and some other stuff going on with dd's dad. I could maybe stretch to some cheap tins if I'm careful though so if I buy an extra one or two every so often that will help a little. I'm lucky to live near family who would let us squeeze in for tea too maybe. I feel so sad for people who have no one to help sad

Darkesteyes Sun 24-Mar-13 00:26:54

This is going to be one unholy big fucking mess. With us UC will be replacing HB.

Booyhoo Sun 24-Mar-13 00:27:28

ah, i have found thisuniversal credit NI

it says that UC may be split between two people in the household and UC may be payable twice each month. which i think is different from what will happen in the rest of the UK?

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 00:41:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bochead Sun 24-Mar-13 00:43:38

In Greece there are numerous reports of children being left at school on a Friday afternoon, in the hope the authorities would feed them as their own parents no longer have the means. Desperate measures, but I know I wouldn't be prepared to see my son go without food.

Sadly I envisage similar scenes of desperation occuring here, unless "the Big Society" in the form of food banks and charities manages to bridge the gap. The huge demand and rise in food banks recently has suprised me, especially as many recipients are in work.

All I can advise to other parents on benefits is that you start stocking up your cupboards now with storecupboard essentials.

Emergency broth.
8 pounds of rice
2 pounds of red kidney beans
2 pounds of pearl barley
2 pounds of yellow lentils
1 pound of green split peas
1 pound of chick peas

The above will make 16lb or 3 months worth of a fairly nutritionally balanced broth. Just add stock & water when needed in the amount you need for the night. (Add meat, onions etc if and when you can). Buy a pound of rice per week, and build up your 3 month supply gradually while you are able to now.

A bowl of that of a night, a free school meal + a bowl of porridge made with water in the morning won't be much much fun, but it'll keep your kids going in hard times.

IF you can spare the cash now, building up a more exciting emergency food stash by buying an extra tin of beans/fruit a week could turn out to be the smartest thing you've ever done.

The late spring means food prices will rise again this year, after last summer's bad harvest. Fuel & heating costs are also outstripping inflation. Council tax will tip many families over the edge. Those on mortgages do not get HB any way in the event of losing their jobs, the new housing allowances are bringing those in rental accomodation into line with homeowners on benefits.

I'm just hoping the introduction of UC doesn't coincide with a bad winter. The winter death stats due to fuel poverty in the UK are already shocking.

Booyhoo Sun 24-Mar-13 00:51:04

thank you for that post bochead. it is good advice. hopefully it will keep some from starvation when things get as bad as i know they will.

<why can i hear the band playing as the titanic sunk?>

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 00:53:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSecondComing - I live v. near Oldham, do you know what areas are being affected? Is it by postcode or proximity to Oldham centre..?

I work and receive tax credits - no idea how this will affect me.

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 01:01:27

Great post, boch, and one to take to heart in cities in case of riot.

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 01:09:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 01:10:01

We have meters. We are working poor and rural. Two days now, the ferries have been off to bad weather, those who need them to get to work are stuffed, especially if they are on shift, don't have a car and the alternative, a very, very long one on very limited public transport (and not on Sundays), cannot get across. And this is still the mainland. Move? To where? They are all on at least partial housing benefit and now it's a landlord's market, finding one who will take LHA and kids is a joke in even the meanest neighbourhoods.

We are okay, but others we know are not already.

This is a scourge, a scourge on the poor and working poor. These people are not about those who want to work hard but about the rich and themselves, with their 'budget' for food of £130/week.

Why are people standing for this?

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 01:13:19

They won't be, soon enough. We know people who are already stealing food and others selling things on the black market. This is a goldmine for Eastern European and Russian organised crime, even out here in the back of bloody beyond. They are already selling food! Sky, fags, bingo, my arse! It is freezing and gas and power are gone through the roof.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 01:20:48

Is it pointless to hope that the pilot scheme might show what a shitty idea this barren month is so they rejig stuff a bit? Not that that would help the poor guinea pigs sad

Ah ok. I'm Rochdale (sort of) . Whether that is greater manc or not is a bit of a grey area.. my county is technically Lancashire..
I suppose I'll have to just wait and see.

Scary stuff.

I think I am going to put a pound or two on a supermarket saver card each time I do a shop, that will I will have a way to get some food in if times are hard.

All these families that will end up homeless - no roof over their heads and no food to put in their kids bellies, where exactly will they go? Workhouse that's where

midastouch Sun 24-Mar-13 01:29:03

Im actually looking forward to it, we get money in 2 different accounts on 3 different says one weekly one fortnightly and one 4 weekly, plus DP wages monthly, it gets so confusing! i think it'll make monthly direct debits easier rather than having to put a bit away each week. Its not hard to budget your money for food, people that work and are paid monthly manage it.

Booyhoo Sun 24-Mar-13 01:35:07


no, not hard at all when you have the money! what do you expect people to do for those 4 weeks in between the last weekly payment and the first monthly payment? and what about every month after that when they are trying to play catch up with the arrears they built up in that first month?

bochead Sun 24-Mar-13 01:35:45

expatinscotland - RIOTS?

Now I am worried, as sadly I agree with that over the top American guy Gerald Celente "when people have nothing left to lose, they lose it". Most Mums will lose it if they can't feed their kids for a month, no matter how placid they are normally.

Looked again at that broth recipe - kidney beans are a nightmare for hardness when they get old so will require soaking overnight before cooking with the rest of the ingredients. To make the broth nutritionally complete you'd only need to add vit B12 (from meat so perhaps bovril?) & some greens, (nettles are great if you are desperate enough, but cabbage feels more normal). Food fatigue though is a real issue, especially for the very young and very old.

I didn't know supermarkets still did those saver cards - thats a great tip, thanks for that. £1 a week is doable.

bochead Sun 24-Mar-13 01:42:04

midastouch - so presumably you are good to go on just your DP's wages alone for a month or two, until any UC payments arrive? What concerns me most is not the standard first month's wait, but the inevitable admin cock ups that'll leave some families waiting up to six by the time all the IT teething errors are sorted. My neighbour was left high and dry by a mahoosive tax credits cock up when that came in, and it took her years to get herself straight again. The UK does not have a good track record for big IT projects & this whole new scheme is totally dependent upon one.

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 01:43:06

A remedy for hardness in any dried pulse is to soak them with a teaspoon of bicarb well mixed into the water.

Riots? Quite honestly, I don't see why not. I know people who steal food and sell what is probably stolen food, even out here.

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 01:44:13

We're okay. We have Bank of Mum and Dad, too. That doesn't make it okay for everyone else!

expatinscotland Sun 24-Mar-13 01:46:18

Big Society, my arse! They will do nothing. There is already the underlying belief, that any poverty in children is the fault of the parents.

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 05:18:32

But what can we do about it?

threebats Sun 24-Mar-13 05:36:16

I agree with expatinscotland Ever since the Conservatives and Lib Dems have come to power (decided behind a closed door over negotiations and nothing to do with the actual voters of the country) - the key words have been 'work harder and get on.' Which in its actuality is hard to do when the majority of this country are working harder but not to get on - to stand still, to keep their heads above water as wages fail to rise in line with expenses. And Benefits? The very words, a benefit claimant, has suddenly become something to despise. Thanks to Tory and Lib Dem's an almost frenzy has been whipped up against those that are claiming benefits. It is largely seen today that poverty is not existent in this country because its not Africa and we do not have to walk 8 miles to a filthy river and drink out of it. Therefore if you can not feed your children, its nobody's fault but your own. I would charge a lot of children are fed but the parents go without and a lot of children in this country today are cold, freezing - no money for heat. That is fuel poverty - that is poverty. But this is not Africa, so.... Nobody will stand up and fight this as the country has been told, by those in power, its the fault of the parent if the child goes without. Its neglect not poverty. The parent ought to work harder and get on...
Universal Credit - well, something has to be done about benefits as, have you ever tried to fill out a form? You'll need all afternoon, a large, strong coffee or three, headache pills, tissues and a strong disposition. The system needed simplifying, how can anything be universal when people and circumstances are unique?

One thing I am heartily tired of though is the way mothers are paying for the sins of the fathers - men who bugger off without paying a dime in child support or paying so little its a farce and the mother then claiming benefits to manage and she is the person who is slagged off for it. She is the person others say 'she should not have had children' about. Those men ought to be rounded up and castrated.

threebats Sun 24-Mar-13 05:37:49

YANBU Op - I agree with you, as to what to do about it? Is there anything we can do about it? There is no consultation with people - we are simply told - this is how its going to be right now, I suggest you all work harder to get on...

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 06:31:13

YABU. There are always some people who, however they get their income, will make a mess of it, budget badly and/or make poor spending decisions. However, just because someone claims benefits, I don't it should be assume that they are financially inept. That would be patronising in the extreme.

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 08:48:20

I am not sure it is patronizing to say that some people aren't going to bring able to cope.

How do you fill out a form that my take more than hour if you don't have broadband or even a computer? Libraries have computer but like it or not there are a lot of people out there for whom this is going to be very difficult and there is going to be fallout: homelessness, petty crime and a bigger gap between have and have not.

I just feel we have lost any sense of what being in a civilised society should mean.

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 08:49:01

sorry be not bring

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 09:06:11

I really don't accept that 'a lot of people' can't fill out a form or can't get someone to help them fill out a form. Someone claiming UC is, by definition, already claiming a range of things like tax credits, housing benefit and so forth ... all of which require multiple form-filling, visits to local authority offices, calling hotlines. They then go on to manage multiple income payments, some of them weekly, 4-weekly, calendar monthly... and use this to pay multiple bills. This takes a lot more skill arguably than someone paid once a month and settling bills once a month.

So I'm sorry but I do think there is an element of middle-class snobbery here assuming that large numbers of people in receipt of benefits are either too thick to cope or will end up becoming criminals hmm

dementedmumof6 Sun 24-Mar-13 09:28:10

As a self-employed single mum i'm terrified, been reading up and obviously with tax credits its an average wage over the tax year with uc its a monthly figure, and some months i won't make any money as i have big outlays (ie have to buy stock) so they months i'm not entitled to anything

bochead Sun 24-Mar-13 09:31:16

It suprises me the number of people who are unable to grasp that no matter how skilled you are at managing money, if you have NO money then you can't manage it.

It worries me that many don't grasp that the best private insurance policies cannot protect you against your child developing a disability or your husband abandoning you until it's too late. Access to social housing is a thing of the past in most areas for those who default on their mortgages, which HB doesn't cover. You'll be considered to have made yourself intentionally homeless.

We are in the middle of the greatest financial recession for a century. Many, many formerly middle-class wage earners have been made redundant, and many more will before this is all over. The job centre if you haven't visited one before to make a claim is a serious shock to the system! I have yet to encounter a more soul destroying place/experience.

Those who are being worst hit are people with caring responsibilities (a single mother is not as flexible about staying at the office till 10pm), the over fifities, those with disabilities, homeowners (less mobile). Many married sahm don't realise that if their husand's abandon them, then there is NO effective mechanism to ensure that their children recieve maintenance. It's OK to abandon your kids in 2013. I've come across some very sorry tales of good women in their forties whose marriages have broken down through no fault of their own over the years.

Many of those currently driven to use food banks are in work. The cost of transport, home heating, basic groceries etc are all rising faster than individual's incomes. If you lose your job in the current you are unlikely to find another that matches your previous salary.

Many members of todays underclass, are the descendants of the families that were broken forever under Thatcher, when the heavy manufacturing and mining employment their communities had relied on for generations disapeared forever. Whole towns were thrown on the scrap heap, never to recover. Looking at the employment prospects of today's young people I worry that we are in the process of creating another intergenerational social disaster that our Grandkids will have to cope with.

I do hope we won't see more riots - it's the last thing this country needs sad The "I'm all right Jack" mindset hasn't protected many middle-class in other European nations from the wider social ramifications of widespread financial breakdown.

Upsy1981 Sun 24-Mar-13 09:36:02

Why is it so hard to understand? No one on here has said that benefits claimants are too thick to be able to budget or will all become criminals. What I have taken from the thread is that suddenly during the transition period you will be expected to make your last JSA (or whatever benefit you are claiming) payment, which you would usually receive fortnightly and budget for accordingly, suddenly last for a month until your new UC payment starts. This is not an inability to budget. You cannot budget nothing. If someone told me my wages would suddenly have to last me twice as long as usual I would be up shit creek, nothing to do wirh being in benefits, being thick or whatever. And unfortunatelt, when people get desperate, they act in desperate ways so normally law-abiding citizens would turn to crime to make money to feed themselves and their kids. Again, not because they are benefits claimants, but because the benefits system has made them desperate.

Upsy1981 Sun 24-Mar-13 09:38:04

Sorry for typos. Really should proof read!

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 24-Mar-13 09:40:02

From the original post "All well and did if you are god at managing your money, internet literate and in a stable relationship. But in the real world...."

That says plain and simple that the OP is worried about people who can't manage money, aren't internet literate and are 'unstable'. Whether the UC is adequate in absolute money terms is a completely different thing.

lottieandmia Sun 24-Mar-13 09:46:45

I haven't read the whole thread but whether the tories get in or not next time, I really don't think the UC system will be dismantled - it will have cost a lot of money to implement it and it'll be here to stay.

What concerns me is that when tax credits were implemented it was a real mess and loads of people overpaid or had payments messed up because the size of the project was huge. At that time it was impossible to get through to the helpline.

wonderingsoul Sun 24-Mar-13 09:55:24

what i have been told is that when it starts. not every one will be put on to it. it will be a slow progress and by the end of 2015 every one will be put on it.

some one mentioned a calicator about how much you would get, is it possable to get that linked?

personally, i woudl love a monthly pay. becasue belive it or not it is a lot harder to budgit weekly. you have to have to make sure you keep so much back one week so much another. if it was monthly i could just pay all my bills straight away or at the very least have a huge chunk which i could keep in my bill accounts and just split the rest 4 ways. for me it would be easier.

i do think some will find it hard to budgit and there will be thouse who spend it all at once, but who can you really blame for this? there needs to be help out there to h elp thouse who have trouble budgiting. and it needs to be done in a way that doesnt make them feel stupied.

i dont understadn why there would be a wait. surely you would get the payment on 1st. or the first week when your once weekly ended.. theres no way they can make you wait a month for money.. it just wont work.

nkf Sun 24-Mar-13 09:55:41

I understand how monthly payments will be horrendous for those people who are totally useless with money or who have addictions. They will blow it in the first week and then they and their family will suffer. I get that.

But, if you are good at budgeting for a week, is it that much harder to budget for a month? I can see that you have to adapt but there is lots of help and advice available.

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 09:57:10

I've had a year to realise that my working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit will all cease on a certain date due to my youngest child not being classified as a child any more - fair enough.

I haven't sat back thinking oh i'll not manage my budget now. I have actively gone and found work from home armed with laptop and typing skills. Now earn far more than I dreamed possible working for 3 estate agents and a magazine. These jobs weren't advertised. I pushed my way in.

Before anyone says its ok for me, it wasn't. Necessity forced me to do it. 25 years of working on a low wage and being dependent on top up benefits becomes a poverty trap you can't escape from. Coupled with the above, dog walking, taking a child to school, shopping for the elderly, buying from charity shops and selling on, surely with a bit of initiative there's ways of bringing in a bit of cash to tide you over.

Upsy1981 Sun 24-Mar-13 10:01:18

But the OP doesn't say anyone is thick or a criminal. You can struggle at budgeting money whilst being very intelligent (my DH for example!) You can be unfamiliar or uncomfortable with the internet whilst still being intelligent (my DM for example!) And sad as it is there are lot of unstable relationships both for people on benefits and not, its just that when you are on benefits living so close to the breadline if your partner leaves and he/she is the one receiving the payment you don't have any means to provide for your kids until its been looked into and resolved. No one is saying these things are exclusive to people on benefits, just that they are extra challenges being put in the way which affect the most vulnerable in society the most.

HappyMummyOfOne Sun 24-Mar-13 10:08:30

There is plenty of time for people to prepare. It will push more into work which is the aim anyway as people should self support where possible. Its not too much to ask that people work and earn as much as possible to support themselves and their families. Having children doesnt suddenly render a person incapable of working.

Very patronising to say people wont cope as they claim now so so different and as for riots people should be reminded that we are very lucky to have a welfare system at all. If children are going hungry then that is down to the parents and SS should be involved. Benefits are very generous to those with children.

Most jobs pay monthly, paying benefits monthly will mean not such a big difference once the person finds work.

One benefit payment should save money in admin, mean less fraud (hopefully) and make any benefit caps easier to do.

I doubt it will be reversed if a different party get in at the next election. A recent poll on yougov showed 47% still believe benefits are too high so its clear that many will vote for the party they believe will ensure those on benefits never net more than those working etc which is what is currently happening.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 10:12:28

Wondering soul, someone already explained that for me when I asked. There will be a gap of four weeks because benefits are paid in arrears. If they paid weekly one week and gave the monthly payment the next week, they would be giving you a chunk of money that you haven't "earned" yet. If you started working the day after your monthly benefit payment, your entitlement would change for that month so they would have paid you money that you aren't entitled to. They'd have to chase it up to get it back so instead of risking that happening, they just leave us all to rot for a month.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 10:12:44

I think ginally this genration will be unshackled for the burden of being benfit dependant

They will not feel entilted as many do on here bevause they wont have acssess to it if they are fit and helathy and able to work for the first many mothers who otherwise would have not looked for work until there children are teens will grown up from 5 years with working parents

Its not the goverments job to support YOUR choice there are some who have fallen on hard times but there are many despite it being made crstyal clear that welafre is a safty net they have had children whilest on benfits and insead of being greaful for money THEY haveNOT EARNED and is being taking form people who work long hard hours they complain and moan that the govermnet should take yet more form these families so they can pay for there family

Thank god for the benefits system but its a net not a soft bed the poweresthat be gently tried to get people back to work with gentle work programs ect that didnt work now its time for stick

Lastly i just like to say i know my spelling is not good i am allowed my view badly spelt or not

Familes who work have to tighten there belts of the money runs out before pay day you go over drawn or go with out

In working familes if you live in a tiny home and you CHOOse to have 5 chikdren you move to a bigger home and if you cant afford to you stay overcrowded

For some reasons familes who dont work expect working families to shleter them from the realities that working familes face all the time

The uc is not coming from the goverment it comes from working familes

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 10:13:22

Happymummyofone, how do people prepare for a month with no money and all the bills coming in when they have little money even now?

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 10:15:04

SneezingwakestheJesus i see your point but what do you think happens to people who work to change jobs say from weekly pay to monthly pay

wonderingsoul Sun 24-Mar-13 10:16:54

no benifits shouldnt get more then thouse working. but also you cant lower benifits any lower. its hard enough as it is.

i dont get why people are not campaging about a better min wage.

up min wage.

come down harder on thouse who comit benifit fraud.. even prision, and be made to pay it all back including intrest.

build cheaper ha house for every one.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 10:19:11

Wondersoul amen to that i feel so sorry for people who earn no more than those who get benefits they must feel very temeted to simply stop working

They are trying so hard but often coming home with little more than if they were on welafre

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 10:21:41

We've all had plenty of time to prepare for this as happymummyofone says.

What are you all going to do when your youngest child doesn't qualify you for child benefit, working tax credit and child tax credit all from a one-off date? Surely you wouldn't wait till that date and then panic about loss of income. You'd lay the foundations as early as possible with a view to overcoming the loss by your own means. There are plenty of ways of doing that, just use a bit of initiative.

shesariver Sun 24-Mar-13 10:22:34

I really wouldnt be surprised if there are riots, a visible symptom of such huge social unrest. I remember riots here in Scotland when the charmers that were the Tories decided to introduce the Poll Tax a year earlier here compared to the rest of the UK.

This wont affect me thankfully but I do have a lot of very vulnerable clients who it will and I'm really worried. This is real people and real peoples lives these clueless out of touch politicians are meddling with. It is not arrogant or being middle class or assuming that people will struggle - because they will. Real peoples lives are not black or white.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 10:24:30

Domjolly, people who switch from weekly to monthly wages may also struggle but that tends to be a choice, moving from one job to another. People receiving benefits have no choice about this month of no money and no way to prepare for it as their finances are so low anyway. Its forcing people into potential homelessness and poverty. You wouldn't switch jobs if it meant you could lose your home and not eat would you?

shesariver Sun 24-Mar-13 10:24:34

And loving the posts about pushing more people into out of touch is that, all that work and jobs out there available eh? hmm

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 10:27:31

Happyinherts, how do we prepare then? I see nothing I can do. I can't work due to health reasons so getting a job right now isn't an option. Hopefully I will continue to improve because I would love to work. Even on MMW I'd be £500 a month better off with tax credits etc too. I have £968 coming in and I just about cover the bills and food. Tell me how I would use my initiative and prepare for this.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 10:28:49

SneezingwakestheJesus really a choice to move jobs hmm some might say not working is a choice for some

aufaniae Sun 24-Mar-13 10:29:29

The Tories have strong links with the Pay Day legal loan sharks. From the Unite Website:

Unite calls on government to come clean about murky Wonga links

Unite, the country’s biggest union, is calling on government and the Tory party to come clean about links to payday loan companies, following the news that Wonga has recruited Jonathan Luff, a senior prime ministerial advisor on digital strategy.

The union is demanding that the Tory party and government ministers publish full details of their links to and meetings with Wonga, as well as any other payday lenders. It is also calling on prime minister David Cameron to provide assurances that payday lenders will not be granted privileged access to ministers.

Luff’s appointment follows previous revelations regarding close ties between prominent payday lending industry figures and the Tory party. This includes ministers charging £1,250 for meetings with lenders at the party’s autumn conference and Adrian Beecroft - whose firm Dawn Capital provided startup capital for Wonga - being appointed as a government advisor.

Len McCluskey, Unite general secretary, said: “This appointment raises further serious questions about the relationship between senior Tory party figures and the legal loan sharking industry. The deeply concerning impression is forming that there is a revolving door between No 10 and the legal loan sharking industry.

"It is time the government came clean on these cosy relationships and gives urgent assurances that Jonathan Luff will not be able to use his Westminster networks to lobby on behalf of Wonga.

"Legislation is urgently required to curb the rip off interest rates legal loan sharks impose to ruthlessly exploit people who are already struggling. Legal sharking is one of the few growth industries under this government; Wonga's enormous profits confirm it has benefited hugely from the austerity hit to ordinary people.

"Questions have to be asked as to whether the apparently cosy relationship between the Tory party and payday lenders is preventing the government taking action to protect the most economically vulnerable being put in place. The prime minister needs to provide cast iron guarantees he will not bow to the lobbying machine of legal loan sharks.

“We already knew that the Tories were ‘in bed’ with legal loan sharks. Government advisor Adrian Beecroft - who has recommended some of the most draconian cuts to workers rights’ in a generation - is one of Wonga’s financial backers. During the Tory party conference, ministers were charging £1,250 for face-to-face meetings with payday lenders.

“This revolving door between government and the payday loan industry is spinning and must be stopped." "

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 10:31:06

Domjolly, it might be a choice for some but for others it is not a choice. What about those people? Just lump them in with the people who choose benefits? That's the easiest way for a lot of people it seems.

Dawndonna Sun 24-Mar-13 10:32:07

FFS. HappyMummy etc. The people concerned do not have the financial werewithal to be able to prepare. Oh, and even if they could save on benefits, I dread to imagine what you lot would be saying about it. You'd all be claiming benefits were too high if people were able to save.

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 10:38:01

Well, again I will ask. What do people think they will do when their youngest child no longer qualifies them for in work or out of benefits?

And to whoever up thread who asked me what could they do to prepare, I had little idea where to start either. Found a few freelance jobs on peopleperhour and then got feet under a few tables and now have regular work from three clients.

HappyMummyOfOne Sun 24-Mar-13 10:39:11

Wondering soul, if under 35, single and on JSA benefits will be minimal however those with children can net more in benefits than somebody working full time. If benefits were so low then the cap of £26k would not have been introduced. People on benefits have mobiles, internet and computers, holidays, wine regularly etc so hardly poverty.

Raising min wage would mean many small businesses go under and some jobs require no skills so pricing them high would simply mean that jobs that do need skills would raise to silly amounts. Lots of people take min wage jobs like students or adults who just want to boost the household income, for many it doesnt mean their only income.

Labour bought votes by borrowing money to pay people thousands for not working and we now need to ensure that the message that people need to work is out there and that working pays. Benefits should be there for those too disabled to work or those that need short term help between jobs. Its no longer going to be choice to not work or claim you cant as you have children etc.

shesariver Sun 24-Mar-13 10:43:15

People on benefits have mobiles, internet and computers, holidays, wine regularly etc so hardly poverty

And this is everyone on benefits of course eh hmm Well The Tory propaganda has clearly worked on you!

wonderingsoul Sun 24-Mar-13 10:48:19

im a single mother on benifits so i know what its like.

when my youngest starts school in sep i will be running after ant jobs i can, at the moment going to work and paying childcare would leave me worse off, yeah it hurts my pride but im not going to let my children suffer becasue i want to protect my ego even if i will be worse off.

more needs to be done about childcare. some of my friend can work becasue they have family or friend who can help ut. i dont. they dont see their dad so i cant work nights or week ends. and dont forget the 1000's of jobs that are felixable

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 10:48:41

Labour bought votes by borrowing money to pay people thousands for not working and we now need to ensure that the message that people need to work is out there and that working pays. Benefits should be there for those too disabled to work or those that need short term help between jobs. Its no longer going to be choice to not work or claim you cant as you have children etc.

I agree with this happy mum labour denfitaly used these payemnts to bribe the supposed core demarapghic

HappyMummyOfOne Sun 24-Mar-13 10:49:29

Shesariver, nothing to do with Tory progaganda. A quick search on here alone shows that people on benefits have these things and the entitled to website shows just how much people net in benefits if you put in a fake scenario. Very easy to find facts out nowadays rather than blindly believe everything polititions say.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 10:51:49

Happyinherts, and what would you have done if you couldn't work? If your health had prevented you from doing this to get your feet under the table? Some people are on benefits because they have to be right now. People like that aren't going to be able prepare by looking for a freelance job.

shesariver Sun 24-Mar-13 10:52:53

It is Tory propaganda that is turning people against people based on the few that abuse the system. There is no way that you can claim everyone on benefits is living the life of riley with holidays and Sky Tv etc, because its not true. Life on benefits is a struggle for lots of people, some of whom I work with. Thats a "fact" to me.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 10:53:49

Happymummyofone, people on benefits were real people too once you know? They could have bought it a million years ago. I have a laptop, I'm on benefits. I bought it in 2005 when I was starting university. I would never be able to afford another computer on benefits.

HappyMummyOfOne Sun 24-Mar-13 10:55:14

"more needs to be done about childcare" We have lots of choices for childcare in the UK and even have state support towards costs for those low incomes and tax relief for those that self support. Thousands manage to work without free family childcare every day.

I dont think it should be down to the state to sort childcare, parents know when they have children that they are expensive and it takes two minutes to find out childcare costs from the internet or a quick call to the local nursery. Far too many have children without the means to support them, either at the time or should circumstances change. Of course, its then not their fault but the states.

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 10:57:39

Sneezing- my comments weren't aimed at the genuinely disabled whom I would very much hope that no government would pull the rug out from under their feet.

I was aiming comments at the "woe is me brigade" who will have a shock awaiting them one day when their youngest child doesn't qualify them for any benefit either in work related or out of work. That day will come for all families and needs addressing as early as possible.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 10:58:56

SneezingwakestheJesus the problem is then when you backs agaisnt the wall you dont yell i have no money and demand the goverment give you more you sell what you have

I think people bulk at people who say they cant feed there children yet hve a 500 i phone the answer is sell the i phone and by a cheap one i just cant take anyone seriously who has sky but cant feed themeless or there children

When we have no money the first thing that gose is the sky

And i know for my sister who somkes they are the first thing in her house that gose

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 11:01:50

Nice to see all the tory supporters are out in force again. Talking their usual shit about sky tv and mobile phones.


minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 11:07:52

Staggered by Bochead's broth post.
Wtf is it doing here, in 2013? I am sickened.

I will add to it, though. Get some value tins of can get cheapo ones in which some of the tomatoes are a bit orange or yellow, instead of all being red.

If you can, bag a cheap slow cooker to save energy when you're making your broth.

Start researching wild food....a friend of mine loves wild garlic and uses it in a variety of soups, for example.

We're ok for now, no benefits, both earn a decent wedge, but I am mightily pissed off that there are those who aren't. I don't know when the UC is coming to Oxfordshire, but there are pockets of deprivation here that are going to turn ugly.

Dawndonna Sun 24-Mar-13 11:12:57

I find it worrying that Scameron has got to these people so much. For a start there are very many more people in work claiming benefits than there are out of work. The myth that families haven't worked for generations is a myth. Benefit fraud is pretty low. The greatest part of the benefits bill is pensioners. For the tories here

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:18:03

if it is patronizing to say that vulnerable people are at risk then I am being patronizing.

What really worries me about the right wing why should I pay attitude us that it is soo blinkered. We exist in community with fellow citizens not some sort of sealed bubble. The system is going to effect the most vulnerable and the less vulnerable will feel that effect.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 11:18:24

Dawndonna there are familes who havent work for generations And is certianly not a myth talk to any social worker ,prioson officer or teacher or police men there are sadly plently of families were the father ,son and now grand son have never done a days work in there life

And that the left that people wont accept there are is part of the problem why people have turned labour basically buried there head in the sand over this issue

InNeedOfBrandy Sun 24-Mar-13 11:19:27

It's not talking shit though it is RL. People are on benefits with contract Iphones and do go out raving and drinking most weekends, even if I wasn't out I still had my fags and wine. I know as I did it, I know because my step sister now does it. I had sky tv too (wish I could afford it now!) and holidays. Thats why I cannot take seriously someone saying they can't afford to feed their dc on benefits.

Thats not to say it wasn't a struggle it was and the weekly money made it worse being hand to mouth every week instead of having your money and sorting out your monthly bills.

CB isn't changing over to UC btw so there will be a small amount of change to live on (I think mines about £30 PW) and housing ass are not going to kick anyone out for being a month behind, what I assume will happen is a payment plan and DD's will be set up and anyone who gets behind will have loads of support and help paying their rent from housing officers.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 11:19:39

idiuntno57 perosnally i dont mond paying

Just not for ever
Not for many many chikdren
And not if the said person /family are making zero effort tp change there stance

InNeedOfBrandy Sun 24-Mar-13 11:20:09

And yes I agree with whoever said this is a patronising post, it is the majority of people on benefits are not stupid.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 11:20:49

Domjolly, I'd love to have stuff to sell to cover the £968 that we won't receive in that dead month. I don't. I don't have sky, my phone is a smartphone but its not mine to sell (borrowed), I might get £20 for my old laptop if I'm lucky and I have a big backed telly that I'd probably struggle to give away never mind sell. Not everyone has a house of things to sell.

Happyinherts, that's one of the problems I have. I'm not classed as disabled which means I am automatically lumped in with the woe is me brigade as people assume I am making it up to stay on benefits despite the fact I receive treatment etc. I can't work, I am not assessed for my health as its easier for them to leave me in the "single parent under 5" slot for now so I will have the rug pulled out from under me and get lumped in with fraudsters and career benefit cheats at the same time. Its quite a horrible situation. I just cling to the hope that I will get 100% better so I can get a job, any job, soon!

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 11:22:15

Keeping people for a year or two fair play
Kepping those who have chikdren before they fall on hard times also fair play but i cant abide keeping those who choose to incress there number whilest on welfare and expect other people to foot the bill

Also happy to help those who have made hard choice eg cutting back there own life style but not those who want to carry on smoking, or have yes sky

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:23:30

and this thread wasn't about the morality of benefits but the practical implications of this new system.

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:25:22

it is not up to us to make value judgements about benefit claimants. Its up to us to support the weak, old, vulnerable, oppressed etc. because we are civilised.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 11:26:17

SneezingwakestheJesus you get £969 a month really i am intrested

Is that on top of dinner tickets
Uniofrm grants

Or including those ?

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 11:28:47

idiuntno57 so the tax payer bascially should just shut up and pay and not ask any questions of the people who are asking for the money hmm

InNeedOfBrandy Sun 24-Mar-13 11:32:15

Not everybody on benefits is weak old and vulnerable hmm mostly people on benefits are normal people on hard times and don't wish to be stuck. The way the system is at the moment means with the weekly payments you get stuck and trapped and feel you can't get a job because your security of weekly money is took away. The system keeps you dependent.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 11:33:56

Domjolly, I have one child under 5 so can assure you £968 is all I receive. No school dinners or uniform allowance. Housing benefit, child tax credit, child benefit and income support.

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 11:36:00

Its like talking to a wall.

Dawndonna Sun 24-Mar-13 11:36:15

Funny that Domjolly because nobody can find them

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 11:37:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shesariver Sun 24-Mar-13 11:38:43

Its so depressing, and sadly predictable isnt it thesecondcoming

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:39:40

having a go at recipients is attacking the wrong group.

There is a reason why this lot of politicians are demonising benefit recipients . It takes the pressure off them....

AnAirOfHope Sun 24-Mar-13 11:42:43

I would like to add a few points

1) people.useing public computers to entre personal info is a great way for ID theft. NI numbers address and date of birth all on a screen anyone can look at hmm

2) you cant budget if you dont know the amount you will get.

3) the partners of adusers will be more affected.

4) In 2007 the cost of living was less and benefits the same now in 2013 the cost of living is high and the benefits the same - this is why people cant feed, cloth or heat the house for children. There is over crowed in private houseing as council housing list are long and the council are not building new council houses, many cant save as they are living hand to mouth , most are paying off debt raked up in the good free lending times that intrest has sky rocketed due to the credit crunch. Most benefitd are claimed by those working. So it was doable to last a month on little money to make it strect thats not an option now as there is no room to strech the money today.

Because people are li ing hand to mouth the 4 weeks without money will mean bankruptsy and homelessness to more people - meny who work hard but dont get a liveable wage.

Dawndonna Sun 24-Mar-13 11:42:59

Yep, but they're too thick to see it.

AnAirOfHope Sun 24-Mar-13 11:51:09

Why are you sterotyping people who claim benefits?

Can you tell me the number or percentage of people who are in employment and claim benefits?

Do you know what percentage of the overall budget the wellfare bill is?

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 11:55:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lottieandmia Sun 24-Mar-13 11:56:15

There will always be people who think like happymum and domjolly - they were posting the same stuff before the last election.

Also, rather than being 'out of touch', the Tories know exactly what the outcomes of their policies will be but they don't care. This is their brand of politics.

To those bleating about internet it costs little compared with the prices of just about everything else - why do people consider it a luxury? It was a luxury maybe 15 years ago...

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:00:37

lottieandmia and there will always be people who think like you who bleet on about not being able to budget dispite every working family having to do it

And demanding the goverment give more of working familys hard earned cash to support those who dont work

Labour knew the outcome of there policy its just they didnt wuite pull it off buying people off with welafre in exchange for votes

HappyMummyOfOne Sun 24-Mar-13 12:00:54

"£968 is all I receive. No school dinners or uniform allowance. Housing benefit, child tax credit, child benefit and income support."

So the equivalent of a £13k salary. Some people dont net that working full time.

The second coming I have plenty of empathy for those who need it but many on benefits are on them by choice. Some dont want to work, thousands had children they had no way of supporting, many want a SAHP so claim for that reason or only want to work a few hours a week. People are responsible for their own lives and choices not the state.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 12:01:37

It's a comfort mechanism..... "These awful situations only happen to naughty druggies.....not me...."

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:04:23

The left and right shall never unnite and i suppose the left feel that money should be given with out any requirment by the clamment to look for work or prove they are doing so.

And the right think its not the working familes job to keep those who can work and wont

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:06:33

Naughty druggies sad

AnAirOfHope Sun 24-Mar-13 12:07:14

We are a welfare state if you disagree with it then move to any other EU country or USA and hope that you can pay for medical treatment your own pension and have enough savings to last if you lose your job or become disabled.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 12:10:26

Hapoymummyofone, I wasn't complaining about the amount I receive. When I say "is all I receive" I was replying to domjolly's post suggesting I received school help as well. A better wording would have been "is the complete amount I receive". Nice try at trying to make me look entitled by comparing it to a working persons income but that's not what I was saying at all.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:11:01

Its crazy you wouldnt walk to the end of your road knock on the door and ask strangers for food and cloting for yourself and your kids

But thats effectivly what the left are asking the government to do if the left think the argument is so right

Lets set up a welafre fund instead of mandorty tax and see how many pay in to support those who are on it i surspect you would have a bout 5p in that pot

itsnotjustaslap Sun 24-Mar-13 12:11:39

Universal Credit is going to be a nightmare. I work in local government / civil service and there are going to be savage consequences which will have a massive impact on many people and services. And even go beyond the many who are directly affected; so if you are sitting pretty thinking that this won't affect you - it will. The chances are that people close to you will be directly affected and even if they are not; then you will be hit too as a result of poverty hitting other people's lives.

For example when we have been looking at the impact of the cuts: rent arrears for local councils and housing associations are predicted to double, at the very least. This means that councils and housing associations are going to have to plow much more resources chasing people for arrears - bailiffs, expensive court and legal fees. This means that budgets are going to get further into the red and this means to pay for this council taxes / rents will either have to go up or more services cut.

Homelessness is likely to rocket. Communities will become far more transient which affects those who live in them - even those who don't need benefits at all. Graffiti, vandalism are likely to rise. All crime is likely to rise dramatically.

As people are pushed further and further into poverty studies have shown that their health rapidly deteriorates - emergency admissions to hospital are most common for the most poor and vulnerable in society; independent of age. This will mean greater use of resources for the NHS - costs which will either have to be passed to you in greater national insurance contributions or service cuts.

As people are pushed more and more into poverty their education suffers and their potential educational attainment deteriorates - pupils who qualify for free school meals are far less likely to get five A-C GCSE passes than children who don't qualify for them. And the link very strongly is poverty: it isn't that children who qualify for fsm are poor because their families are in poverty because they are intellectually inferior -at least 60% of intelligence is NOT inherited - if you were to remove fsm children and their families and put them in affluent areas with decent incomes their educational attainment would be likely to dramatically improve.

The more people who struggle academically means that overall performance in class is dragged down - which may impact on your child's performance. The more children that require additional support means that resource budgets are stretched even more.

The more families are plunged into poverty; the harder it is to get out; the harder it is to get a decent educational attainment and the harder it is to get a decent well paid job; and guess what; the cycle continues. For generations.

Poverty is good for no-one. Even if you are alright Jack; it will impact on you. You may feel less safe, more paranoid. You will either have to pay more tax and insurance contributions or accept savage service cuts or that the NHS cannot afford your treatment. But you will suffer

AnAirOfHope Sun 24-Mar-13 12:12:24

What about the working family to keep the working family?

IWC is being scrapped from October.
Ditto job grant.
Crisis loans on the way out too
I am fucking terrified about having to administer UC.
Of course people are going to suffer.

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 12:19:53

What a load of patronising rubbish.

My son was too poor for free school meals as didnt qualiy for them on a working family wage of £15K. He got 10 A - C GCSE's and wasnt the only poorer child to do that. Find this poor talk with lack of ambition patronising.

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 12:19:55

What a load of patronising rubbish.

My son was too poor for free school meals as didnt qualiy for them on a working family wage of £15K. He got 10 A - C GCSE's and wasnt the only poorer child to do that. Find this poor talk with lack of ambition patronising.

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 12:19:56

What a load of patronising rubbish.

My son was too poor for free school meals as didnt qualiy for them on a working family wage of £15K. He got 10 A - C GCSE's and wasnt the only poorer child to do that. Find this poor talk with lack of ambition patronising.

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 12:23:46

happy you can't extrapolate a universal truth from an individual circumstance.

Good on your son but it doesn't prove anything beyond the fact that he is bright and hardworking.

LahleeMooloo Sun 24-Mar-13 12:23:59

Just posing the question: why is anyone owed a living by anyone else? Is it a fundamental human right to have others pay for your lifestyle? I receive working tax credits, like many working parent, I take them because they're there but I don't actually think I am entitled to them.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:25:14

Low attainment amungst children on dinner tickets is usually down to low aspirations of there parents and the school not poverty because why is it that a child who lives with in a working household who parents who net less form working than they would do on benfits

The diffrenace is aspirations

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 12:27:01

That's great Happy in herts - but there is a huge link between being hungry, poss sleep-deprived because you're hungry and cold, and not doing well in school. It's undeniable. Even if your parents are doing their absolute best for you and your home life has a good routine etc etc....if you are not getting enough food, you aren't going to care about algebra.

IcaMorgan Sun 24-Mar-13 12:28:10

If it works the way it did when Incapacity went to fortnightly for everyone then plenty of notice will be given and a loan will be offered to help you through the gap which will be repayable over 3 months or so

People on JSA or ESA get paid fortnightly not weekly so would have 2 weeks money to go 4 weeks (approx depending on the month)

Certain benefits are not included in UC so those claimants will not be affected (DLA, CB etc)

There is also a way that vulnerable people can continue on fortnightly payments but I don't know what its called

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:28:18

Benfits will be capped at 26k shock many working familes could only dream of such a income

If the chikdren of these familes who are on welafre to the tune of 26k which is what a graduate would expect to earn are not doing well then i would put money on it being down to the asprations of the parents

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 12:29:56

They'll be capped at £26k, but what's the average payout, and what is the average amount of outgoings for families on benefits?

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 12:30:50

Genuine question alert!

How does it work out that a working parent can be worse off in terms of the money they earn and receive than someone who doesn't work? If I could work full time at NMW, I would be £500 better off a month even after the childcare costs were taken out because of the wages and WTC bumping everything up. Is it just because I'm a single mum that I would be better off working? Or because I don't drive? If you compared two families with the same outgoing costs, the working family would always net more money surely?

I work in the system.
It's bad enough now.
Just because SOME claimants will be fine does not mean ALL will be.
DV victims?
The very vulnerable, most of whom have been kicked off ESA
Those that can't afford food, never mind Internet access.
The homeless?
Single people who can only claim JSA. How is £71 per week going to last for 4 weeks?
Did i mention the removal of crisis loans?
Spare a thought for those who will suffer. Because they are suffering now and it will get worse. And we all will be affected.

AnAirOfHope Sun 24-Mar-13 12:33:52

If you became disabled and couldnt work, would you want someone to look after you so you are feed and housed or not?

You would be disabled homeless and stave to death when the govenment pay 4bn in foren aid.

mrsscoob Sun 24-Mar-13 12:34:10

I haven't read all the posts as have just eaten lunch and don't want to give myself indigestion. But why oh why do all threads about benefits turn into slanging matches about sky tv and i phones. This isn't what the OP is about. This is exactly how the government plan to get away with leaving poor and sick people destitute. You people are playing right into their hands.

AnAirOfHope Sun 24-Mar-13 12:35:36

Also even if you didnt recieve aid you would have to still psy taxes.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:39:58

minouminou i dont know but i know what they dont have to pay for

Dinner money which is about £40 a mounth

You cant get a maternity grant which i believeis £500

In london you will get 50% off oyster card

Most LA run a lesuire pass

Uniform grant

So those are a few out goings you dont have when your not working

Plus your rent paid

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 12:40:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

It's because you are a LP.
Families without children who can't claim CHB and CTC are fucked, basically.
And if you happen to be under 25, no WTC either.
So if you don't live with your parents ( many cant) have to private rent, pay partial council tax, heating and food out of about £71 per week for an extended period ( because jobs are do easily come by, hah!) you will be fucked having to survive for an additional period with no benefits.
Britain 2013

butterfingerz Sun 24-Mar-13 12:41:15

Under the new system, using that calculator that another poster linked to, we'd be a lot better off because at the moment we could claim a proportion of HB but we don't. Under the new system we'd get about £400 pm more than what we do now, with one of us in full time work.

But as the old adage goes, 'if its too good to be true it usually is'. I wonder how much paperwork and conditions are attached to how much they give you. Maybe the gov are hoping that working families will be put off by jumping through hoops and don't claim (as many are now with the TC system) and thus ideally reduce the benefit bill further.

JakeBullet Sun 24-Mar-13 12:45:32

on benefits, no sky, no iphone. I have applied for a free goat though.
<adds silly goat reference before anyone else does>.

Am worried about the wider issues of UC but personally not concerned about once a month payments as that's what I had in work. Not going to affect me for a while anyway.

Oh and the benefit cap too!
Saw a very vulnerable LP last week with 5 children. No way can she work. Her weekly benefits will reduce by £500 per month overnight.
Simply because she is in a private let costing mega bucks. She can't get a council house due to rent arrears.
Most worryingly, she did not understand what I was warning her about. Those kids will suffer and thee is fuck all she can do about it hmm

AnAirOfHope Sun 24-Mar-13 12:47:35

To claim both parents need to be in work one for 37 hours and the other 24.

The one named to get uc will have to look for work, attend intreview, workfair and back to work intreview each week.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 12:48:23

We will all be affected, yes.
Rich and poor. The rich will feel insecure and paranoid, and I can see a spate of intruder murders.

I feel more insecure now - I look at DS' scooter and think - that's £20 or more for someone who is desperate. Never used to think this.

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 12:49:22

Anyone who looks at benefits and thinks their "generosity" is the issue, you need to think again.

Benefits are set at the minimum required to live on and if that is more than NMW then surely the issue is with this government undermining NMW by allowing thousands of low skilled migrant workers into this country. By allowing companies to opt out of employing people by giving them a constant stream of workfare placements. By leaving the NMW at a ridiculous level instead of raising it to a living wage.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Why are you all blaming theittle people who are scraping by on a pittance, instead of the high and mighty who actually have the power to change it??

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 12:49:38


We've always lived off one low wage plus working tax credit. Total of around £15K which is less than entitlement for free school meal entitlement. Had no housing costs as inherited home and just paid council tax

Considered ourself fortunate. I've now acquired full time work as son nearly 19 and entitlement to Child Beneft and Working Tax Credit ending. I've found no difficulty replacing these universal benefits with wages

AnAirOfHope Sun 24-Mar-13 12:50:26

So more children going into care for the govenment to finance completly.

Indeed. And more kids living in poverty. It's disgusting.

LahleeMooloo Sun 24-Mar-13 12:51:59

Katie- what on earth was she doing having five kids with no means to support them herself?

Happy, yes YOU are fortunate.
Factor in rent, being unable to work due to ill health or multiple children and where would you be?

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:53:25

wannabeEostregoddess thats the whole issue some people find the minimum wage 26k a tad to genrous and feel that people moaning about money paid for by working families And about the same as ehat a graduate would expect to get is a booldy cheek

DV victim, but I suppose that's her fault too?

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 12:56:21


£26k is HOUSING COSTS. Another issue the government could tackle, but as the rich private landlords might lose out they wont ever address the cost of housing.

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 12:57:27

Oh and the majority of claimants are in work.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 12:58:29

My sister has suffred dv she is now not legally not able to drive to to her vision

He puched her so hard damaged her eye socket
So i have had experince with this

No one is begruding a few years to get your slef together but not a life time whats weong with people saying you can have a helping hand but not forever

The biggest thing for my sister was getting bak her inderpance she went from relying on him to relying on the state she was most happy when she was dependant on her self

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:00:11

wannabeEostregoddess well thsta even worse so the other benfits are on top of teh 26k confused

so really people are netting 30-35k then all in all bloody nora this thing really needs to be tamed

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 13:00:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:01:13

Yup yup, Katie.
All it takes is a bit of bad luck.
I worry (I'm a freelance writer) about RSI, or some other debilitating condition that our insurance might not want to cover. Or DP getting ill, or one of the children getting ill, or our car ploughing into another, or the house getting hit by a meteorite (only semi-joking here!).

Then what? I'm self-motivated, well-educated, assertive, tenacious and all that of the strivers.....but I won't be if I'm picking bits of space rock out of my skull, or if I'm sat by my son's sickbed 24/7, will I?

All we have is each other in this society, ultimately. The non-judgemental kindness of humanity....

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 13:02:14

I really wish this hadn't become a benefits bashing thread.

I am concerned about the implications of UC.

Its a disaster waiting to happen and we're all to busy squabbling to notice.

This woman is of very low intelligence. As most vulnerable people are. She can't work as the cost of childcare will wipe out all of her net gains and more. If she could get and hold a job, which is very unlikely in this economic climate given her capabilities.
As I said, she really is stuck and about to be very much worse off.

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 13:02:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LahleeMooloo Sun 24-Mar-13 13:04:16

Katie, given your description of her, she doesn't sound fit to look after the children anyway. Why is her situation the state's fault?

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 13:05:24

These threads always shock me because sometimes I forget that there are such nasty people out there who begrudge people help when they are struggling. Should people be left to rot like in third world countries? Would you be happy seeing that here? I bet any one of the people on here who complain about people on benefits wouldn't turn them down if they ended up needing them though health problems, death and so on.

Oh FFS. She can look after her kids with support from SS. What do you suggest? Getting the kids taken into care because the mum has learning difficulties?
Who will be paying for that? Santa?

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:06:12


Thats one thing i agree with you i would like to see much more being done to make absent fathers pay there share

This is one thing i am 100% with you on

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:06:35

So she went out and reproduced asexually?
Should have stayed at home, then......

This woman with five children is one of the reasons for the welfare state, Moomoo. Because we're supposedly a civilised society that looks after the vulnerable despite their unfortunate situations and distasteful habits.

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 13:06:47

lahlee society and the state are not mutually exclusive. We all live in society. We all need a little more humanity for our fellow man.

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 13:07:31

No DomJolly.

A family of 4, two adults and two children, will get approx £950 per month to live on. Rent is ontop of that. So if they are breaking the £26k per year bracket then the rest is housing. So tax payers are lining the pockets of private landlords.

Tbh I think you should go educate yourself about the benefit system before you come on here mouthing off about it.

happyinherts Sun 24-Mar-13 13:07:44

Errr no,we lived off a low wage and brought home less than not even bothering to work. I haven't berated anyone for claiming anything they've been entitled to. I've just said that one day it will end and you need the foresight to see that and plan accordingly.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:08:28

I am awlays shocked how many mothers wouldnt need benafits if there ex partners paid there fair share i my self had to pay for child care back in the day whiest the ex sent his new child to private school confused and i was yold i could have £7 a week

LahleeMooloo Sun 24-Mar-13 13:08:38

That's fine if we can afford it, but our country is fucked, we're not too far off going completely bust like Greece and you say that people should be entitled to more than £26k off the state? It's fucking madness. We cannot afford it.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:09:55

It's not as black and white as all that, Moomoo. Whoever said her situation is the state's fault? What's the point of that question?
She's in the situation, the children exist now, we're meant to civilised, we should look after her, and help her to look after her children so they all stay together.

Fucking hell.
Sparta wasn't actually that great a place to live, you know.....let's not get back to it.

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 13:10:25

this is going to cost the state more than it saves in the long term

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:10:53

wannabeEostregoddess why dont you if a family is currently on 26k for just houseing and they are getting other benefits it will come to more than 26k wont it

Iam not talking what will be i am talking aout what is happening

So what will happen to the kids?
Should they become beggars on the street? Turn to crime?
Or go into care which costs the taxpayer far more than paying their parent to feed and house them?

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 13:12:47

Read my post. Actually process the words ffs.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:12:56

Have i missed somthing

You all seem to be talking aout somone who cant look after ther child and suggesting they should be put into care

ilovesooty Sun 24-Mar-13 13:12:58

the poweresthat be gently tried to get people back to work with gentle work programs ect

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:13:19

Heard that, Dom.....
It's not just the money, either. A friend of mine is kick-starting her career again after a gap. She's separated from the father of her youngest daughter, but he pays regular maintenance, which is great. However, what he doesn't do is prove to be reliable - he often doesn't turn up to look after his daughter so my friend can get on with some work/study, so she's not making the progress she should be.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:13:28

wannabeEostregoddess actaully i would rather not

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 13:14:45

Then your a rude individual who would rather rant about something than learn about it.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:15:10

minouminou i was told to let ex have ds during the week as he didnt work i nearly lost my job in the first week because he didnt turn up on to of the days so i had to move him to day care

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 13:15:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:16:10

wannabeEostregoddess yes uncalled for sorry blush

idiuntno57 Sun 24-Mar-13 13:16:21

<cheers for wannabe>

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:17:36

If a family is currently on 26k for housing cost and they get more in other benafits then its stand they are getting more than the 26k so it ends up more like 30k all in all

Exactly TSC. The idiotic smuggery on here makes my blood boil.
Better hope you don't get sick, made redundant, left by partner, have a child who is disabled.......

ilovesooty Sun 24-Mar-13 13:19:16

The 26K includes everything, and it's the maximum payable. Most don't get anywhere near that.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:19:47

TheSecondComing only a awful person would wish that i might be to the right but i wouldnt wish anyone oh cheats on them just awful

My dister ex who beat her up cheated even videoed him shagging the girl and sent it to her via video text

It's £26K max.
Really, you need to learn about this stuff before posting crap.

Domjolly Sun 24-Mar-13 13:20:48

ilovesooty most but not none

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 13:21:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:21:19

Hang on....TSC and're not meaning me, are you?
I'm hoping I haven't come across that way, 'cos I'm not.

No love, not you necessarily smile

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:23:04

The thing is, like has been said before, when people go on about benefits being too close to the minimum living wage and so on...this is because the minimum wage is bloody deplorable, especially with living costs going up so steeply.

But it's simpler to point the finger at claimants, because the economics (and the BS) is easier to understand.

bochead Sun 24-Mar-13 13:23:08

I don't understand WHY the banks aren't being asked to repay the money they borrowed from the tax payers. I don't understand why Tesco's is getting free labour (via the efforts of benefits claimants) yet the small business owner from whence economic recovery has historically sprung during recessions is being hammered in increased high street business rates etc, etc.

I don't understand why we tolerate so many men (and quite a few women) just abandoning their own children. Giving the CSA real teeth and turning the propaganda machine onto those who refuse to pay child maintenance would eradicate a significant chunk of child poverty.

From where I'm standing our nation is run by a bunch of ideological zealots with no compassion, or sense of fair play whatsoever.

ilovesooty Sun 24-Mar-13 13:23:16

Most acquisitive crime is linked to substance misuse. When people come out of prison they often have nowhere to live and no benefits in place. When they are accommodated they often end up in dodgy private lets. Landlords will be much less keen to accept HB tenants under UC. I'd like some of these people who seem to have so little understanding of the enormity of this to spend a week shadowing me in my job.

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 13:23:37


The actual cash in hand benefits are set in stone. Ok so a family with 15 kids might be getting £26k before housing, but how common is that?

A family of 4 will get, in their hand £12350 a year approx. Their rent is more than that and goes straight to private landlords. If they are making £26k per year then thats due to the housing costs.

Nono TSC the kids can go into CARE, remember?
Which turns out so well for most and is paid for by fairy dust......

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:24:34

Phew..... I'm anything but smug and secure about wouldn't take much to upset our apple cart.

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 13:25:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I'd settle for them work shadowing me for a few weeks TSC wink

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:30:19

And it's OK for them to be bored/smug etc etc, but these women are perpetuating misconceptions that have serious implications for the vulnerable in real life.

YY and are far too up their arse to actually learn about the subject they are spouting off about.
While doing charidee work for dogs trust or similar wink

bochead Sun 24-Mar-13 13:35:16

Many women with rich hubbies are totally sheltered from the harsh realities out there and do not have the skills to cope when SHTF. I'm at an age where I've seen one too many acquaintances of this ilk, crumble totally when their hubby runs off with his secretary.

The hardest thing is watching how quickly they are ostracized by their previous yummy Mummy lunch chums let their sudden penury and single status be contagious, and how their children subsequently suffer as a result of their mother's lack of basic life skills.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 13:38:47

Really bochead? You must move in different circles from me as most of the wealthy women I know are frighteningly together, organised, independent and savvy. It's their husbands that couldn't cope without them!

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:41:18

They do exist - I could name a couple.
Only a couple, mind, but they are out there.

mrsscoob Sun 24-Mar-13 13:41:37

So so true about bored/smug wives being the worst ones to moan about benefits. The only vile things I have ever heard in rl have been from women at the school gate who don't work and are supported by their husbands.

I overheard a couple of women moaning about a single mum on benefits. I felt like saying at the time, who are you to judge. OK she's not working but neither are you! Only difference is she is supported by the state, you are supported by your husbands, of which you don't even appear to like that much. Where would you be if he left you?

Yes. I remember one such mum. Her mega rich DH fucked off abroad after clearing their bank accounts. Her DD was in private school. She had to sell her horses and move into a private let. Since DD was boarding, she got no CTC and had to live on £71 per week.
Her world was completely destroyed overnight.
She subsequently had a breakdown ( no wonder) and went on ESA. I often wonder how she is now. Not great, I expect. Poor woman hmm

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 13:43:40

I know women who think they are smart because they married for money.

I would rather be poor and love my husband/partner than be rich and miserable.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:44:31

One of the ones I could name - she got bailed out by her mum and dad, who bought her a big house outright. Which is fair enough - she'd have inherited that money anyway, and she didn't have to rely on the state - but she'd have been up shit creek without it, and is still quite a damaged individual.

bochead Sun 24-Mar-13 13:45:44

I'm lucky enough to have come into contact with the wealthy savvy type too, however I've noticed that this second "type" aren't typically short of compassion for those less fortunate than themselves (indeed they often work damn hard on the quiet to help!).

It's the trophy wives with the terrible attitudes to others that tend to get traded in. Karmic justice

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 13:46:24

Far more poor and miserable people about than rich and miserable! hmm

ilovesooty Sun 24-Mar-13 13:48:50

At work we are already taking steps to create our own food bank. We can't do anything about the potential for homelessness though.

SueDoku Sun 24-Mar-13 13:51:33

I loved the advice being given by a Tory counsellor on my local radio station in answer to a question from a worried benefit claimant who had no computer or internet - "Get down to your local library - they have computers you can use". Excellent - do all your personal financal transactions at a terminal used by hundreds of others, in the middle of a crowded room where anyone can look over your shoulder at the screen... Oh yes, and forgetting the minor detail that 2 out of 3 of our local libraries are being closed to save money, so you'll have to cough up the return bus fare to our major town, as that will be the only one left (and that's before we get onto people with disabilities who will need a taxi both ways)...! angry sad

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:51:51

But anyway - this has totally got derailed.

The reason I returned to this thread is because I thought of some more ideas for weathering the long dark month of the UC changeover.

So, broth....we've got that.

I also thought of:

If you know you'll be getting the changeover in a few months, get a Nectar card, an Advantage card and so on, and squirrel points away on it, starting NOW.

Do online surveys and so on - you've got your sinful broadband that you shouldn't have because you're a filthy scrounger - so use it to (slowly, it has to be said) tot up a few quid that you can either convert into vouchers or into PayPal balances. Start now and it'll be a few tens of pounds for you.

Some veg actually last for weeks in a cupboard, like butternut squashes and sweet potatoes, and places like Aldi often have them as their "veg for 39p" offers, so stock up on them before the UC month starts - it'll add some variety and a bit of freshness.

Pound shops sometimes do baskets of grow your own veg, usually onions/tomatoes and so on, so that could be an idea.

Anyone else?

We could maybe start a new thread for this, eh?

crypes Sun 24-Mar-13 13:52:49

Haha that"poor" woman who lost everything . I hope theres some more stories like that.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 13:54:38

I don't want more stories like that. How will someone's downfall make someone else's life better? Unless the poor can live on tears.

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 13:55:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SneezingwakestheJesus Sun 24-Mar-13 13:59:12

Just another question in case someone knows, mr google and someone further up this thread said in some circumstances it will be paid weekly or fortnightly still. Does anyone know what these circumstances are? I'm clinging to the hope LP are included like they are now.

wannabeEostregoddess Sun 24-Mar-13 13:59:32

Money, or lack of, isnt the only cause of misery.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 14:00:35

Also, you can be insured to buggery, but your provider does not want to pay out, and will try its best not to. Sometimes, it wins....then where do you go?

StormyBrid Sun 24-Mar-13 14:02:04

Loving the suggestion a few pages back that graduates can expect to earn £26k!

When I finished college I could only find part-time work. So I went to university, thinking it would improve my career prospects. Graduated with a 2:1 in 2009. Haven't been able to find any work at all since. I'd be over the moon if I had the chance of earning £26k.

And, just to give the benefit-haters here a target: I got pregnant while on benefits, quite deliberately. Mainly because I wanted a child, and if I waited for a decently paying job I'd be waiting until it's too late. I sat down with the benefits calculator beforehand, and worked out what I'd be entitled to and whether I could afford it - responsible planning in the context I found myself in. And then at five months pregnant I heard about Universal Credit, and I've been shitting myself ever since, because the safety net is being pulled away, and I don't know how much I'll be expected to support myself and my daughter on, and I can't plan anything because all I know is that they're sodding Tories so it's a guarantee that UC will involve a cut to my income.

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 14:05:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Or your husband can go out one night and die on the roads. Which is what happened to my oldest friend. She has managed to stay in work so far but her DD is showing worryingly MH issues, so may not be able to work much longer.
She is terrified.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 14:07:13

Nothing, my love. This is why the smuggees need to catch on a bit.

Oh and a significant minority of my customers have not the slightest clue about operating a PC never mind owning one.
We refer to classes, but they are sporadic and cost money to get to. Oh and learning will take a long time if you don't have a home PC to practice on.
These are people who have worked all their days and never needed to use IT before as it was simply not relevant.
Now it is essential.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 14:14:11

All anyone's doing, with their jobs, and their savings, and their insurance policies, and their mortgages and big houses etc etc, is MINIMISING the risk (and the effects) of the shit hitting the fan. They're not eliminating it. And sometimes, the brown stuff hits no matter what shields you've put in place.

This is what we need the welfare state and the NHS for.

Booyhoo Sun 24-Mar-13 14:19:01

if it wasn't so dire it would actually be hilarious how some people have just absoloutely, unquestioningly swallowed every tory word spouted.

what is it that stops people thinking for themselves? is it just too easy to be someone else's unpaid, unthinking mouthpiece?

trustissues75 Sun 24-Mar-13 14:19:52

I Need - I have to agree with you with food on the table - I relied completely on benefits for a time and DC never went without food.

ilovesooty Sun 24-Mar-13 14:24:10

Katie a lot of my clients can't use a computer either - even some of the younger ones.

Can I point out up thread someone said about uniform grant You only get this 2 times

When a child first goes fulltime school and again when them move up to high school thats all not every year.

I got it when my eldest was going to high school it covered 2 school jumpers with there logo that was only avaiable from the school. At the time I was a single mum due to marriage breakdown.

( I was doing a degree so was on benfits in the summertime) though further edcation I think is now harder to do due to all the cuts and price increases.

I know a good few people that are worried about the UC I live in one of the poilting towns these people work for angencys like I do work is scasre.

I asked my angecy to see if they could get me more work min wage nights weekends as one night shift a week was not enough I was told NO.

Loads of people I worked with have gone back onto benfits due to the same answer you sign up to other angencys and if you are luckey you may get work however in this town five angencys are not even trying to find people work one guy was told we sign you onto our books but we have no places to give you work we already have our own workers.

I and my dp DONT claim anything and we just make ends meat work IS sacare

I apply for jobs but get turned down I get told Im overquaifield. I applied for a min wage temp job of 20 hours a week which I got

I start work Monday for 3 weeks 9-1 mon to fri it will take me over a hour to get there in car
( no way of getting there any other way)
If my angency call me in for a night shift I will be saying yes as if I dont go my name goes to the bottom of list for further work. This is to show what people are coping with in everyday life

Lots of people are struggling now the UC will be a nightmare these people I work with if they work over 16 hours they sign off but the week later they sign back on again as no work.

One lad a hard worker has signed on and off again 6 times since Jan his housing benfit is a mess due to multi signs on/off its just going to get worst.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:27:39

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Wannabestepfordwife Sun 24-Mar-13 14:30:02

Yanbu I'm really concerned about uc, dp and I only claim cb but i think crime and desitution will be on the increase. I can also see a massive rise in prostitution.

I hate to admit it but a few months ago I was in line with the dm way of thinking but reading threads on mn has brought me back to reality.

The post about broth was fantastic and it's inspired me to see if we can start up a cooking on a tight budget scheme at my local sure start centre (it's in a deprived area)

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:30:57

stormybird if you know the tories are evil bastards who are going to reduce your benefits income, why on earth did you choose to get pregnant whilst they were in power? hmm

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 14:32:46

Yeah, wannabe - that'd be a great idea.
I'm going to approach our nearest food bank and see if they make up recipe leaflets, and if not, could I knock some together.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:33:15

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trustissues75 Sun 24-Mar-13 14:33:49

Can I just ask - and yes, I've skimmed the thread but can't find the answer, sorry for just skimming...but, switching from weekly/bi-weekly to I right in thinking that:

a) You may then have to wait up to a month for any money to come in after getting your last bi-weekly payment (the post dated bit?)


b) In reality, since there are actually 13 x (4 weeks) in a year that what is actually going to happen is people are only going to get 12 monthly payments rather that the 26 bi-weekly/52 weekly payments in a year? So effectively there's going to be a whole 4 weeks worth of benefits gone for every family/individual (not even taking into account any actual pay-out changes that will happen with UC) ?

trustissues75 Sun 24-Mar-13 14:36:49

Hang on a minute AnabelKarma...right there please....before you go generalising women/single mothers who are on benefits please know that you're average single mother is in her 30's and has been through a divorce and already had children.

Minouminou thats a good idea ref the food banks smile

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:38:33

Read my posts in answer to stormybird please. My comments are NOT aimed at anyone else.

Viviennemary Sun 24-Mar-13 14:39:03

But nobody has actually said that people will be without money for a month whilst the monthly payments are being brought in. And there was an MP on a programme this morning saying people would get help with the online stuff. And it will save money. I think the benefits system did need to be made more straightforward rather than about lots of different benefits from different departments and the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing.

StormyBrid Sun 24-Mar-13 14:39:30

Take the kid out of the equation and I'd be just as unable to legally support myself without government handouts. The context is no available work, remember. I'd be just as angry at the government if I didn't have a child. But if I'm feckless and irresponsible for making a decision based on what I'm legally entitled to, then it logically follows that only those people with enough money in the bank to bring up a child for eighteen years without any extra financial assistance from anywhere or anyone can breed responsibly. Unless of course you think there should be a moral component to the awarding of subsistence benefits, in which case I will have to respectfully disagree.

Wannabestepfordwife Sun 24-Mar-13 14:39:40

Fantastic idea minouminou- i will see if my local food bank would be interested

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 14:39:48

So, Annabel....any constructive comments you'd like to aim at Stormy, given that her daughter is a done deal now?

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:40:26

I'll summarise trustissues, stormybird looked at her benefit entitlement and decided to get pregnant on full benefits and is now grizzling worried that the evil tories are going to reduce her free money.
Only on MN! grin

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 14:41:12

in that case, then, Wannabe, maybe it should be nationwide - is there a central food bank go-to office/person?
I haven't had much to do with them beyond donating cans and whatnot, but it's been on my mind.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:41:48

None whatsoever miniouminou , I'm just enjoying watching her scoring an own goal for the tories grin

Some MP said help would be given with the PC stuff....
That would be me then.
And I've already explained what actually happens when people need IT skills.....
But hey, some MP said it would be fine........ confused

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:44:34

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IcaMorgan Sun 24-Mar-13 14:44:51

For the person who wanted to know about the certain circumstances for continued weekly/fortnightly payments i think it is for mentally ill and other such vulnerable people etc who would not be able to understand the change and work with it rather than LP etc and they would have to have a social worker etc apply for it for them

Wannabestepfordwife Sun 24-Mar-13 14:45:20

Minouminou the same with me have only donated before but I'm a sahm so I have time with dd is sleeping to ring round and see if they would be interested

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:45:51

And you are angry at the Govt? Oh my word, I do believe I've heard it all now! grin.

Please tell me where the jobs are round here Annabel?
I mean, I spend all day looking for them on behalf of my customers without finding them so pointers would help. TIA

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 14:47:59

OK, Annabel. I must admit, I grimaced a bit reading her first post, but it's done now and Stormy's going to have to get weaving. Let's move on and hope she manages to get a job soon.

Annabel have you read my post ref jobs or the lack of them I know my post is long but it contains lots of info on LACK of jobs

PaleHousewifeOfCumbriaCounty Sun 24-Mar-13 14:48:22

I hope the working smugs who currently claim tax credits have looked up and read the 'conditionality' paperwork regarding this. Pertinent to a lot of married couples, and stay at home mums with partners on low wage.

HappyMummyOfOne Sun 24-Mar-13 14:48:25

OMG, people actually belive financially planning for a child is to work out benefits before having one! Yet its the states fault again I suppose.

If we scrapped all child related benefits and just had a tax voucher scheme for childcare the number of children born would drop dramatically. Its little wonder our teen pregnancy rate is so high given you can take thousand and thousand from the pot without ever paying in.

Also love how HB is never included by people claiming it as its for rent, mmm yes working people have to pay that too themselves and dont decuct it from their salary when working out their incomings.

UC has far stricter criteria, given the amount on here alone confessing to having children whilst on benefits or top benefits, not working when able to as the state tops up income etc its long over due. We want children to aim high in life, not copy the cycle and just hold their hand out for money. Breaking the cycle will benefit everyone.

PaleHousewifeOfCumbriaCounty Sun 24-Mar-13 14:48:40

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:49:23

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trustissues75 Sun 24-Mar-13 14:49:59

Sorry, Annabel - I completely disagree with you....if Stormy was going for her 3rd/4th child while on benefits I'd be a little more reserved in my support but being on benefits isn't a passport for others to then go ahead an judge someone for getting pregnant with one child.....or should we just go around sterilising those who are on benefits for the greater good?

TheSecondComing Sun 24-Mar-13 14:50:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Come on Annabel, I have a pen and paper ready....

There is no detail whatsoever.
If there were we would have had an achingly dull e-learning course to complete. Nothing so far.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:53:27

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PearlyWhites Sun 24-Mar-13 14:55:05

Starsandunicorns most local authorities pay uniform grants every year

But how do we differentiate between the genuine and the not so genuine Annabel?
Crystal ball?
Yet another thing I am dying to know.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:55:48

trustissues you cannot extrapolate choosing to get pregnant ( where IS the father stormybird BTW?) on benefits to sterilisation. that is daft. But what IS happening is that by tightening up benefits and changing to UC, some people will now think twice before choosing for the rest of us to pay for their kids.

Same here Katie I dont mind doing min wage job dont care if it cleaning loos. But still the interviews dont come only sometimes the rejection email comes saying no overquailfield didnt know you could get a nvq in hoovering

PearlyWhites Sun 24-Mar-13 14:57:22

Anabelkarma their is no need to be so nasty!!

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:57:34

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StormyBrid Sun 24-Mar-13 14:58:01

The father's intending to move in and support us as soon as he's able to. Even then, we'll still need some benefits, because NMW is so low and everything else so expensive.

As for entitled, perhaps you're right. I'm of the view that we're all entitled to food, shelter, and so on. I can't quite fathom why that's such an unpopular view these days.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 14:58:15

It'd help to know how old Stormybird is - if she's 25 (she graduated in 2009, so she may be) then yes it was a bit rash. If she's 35....ehhhh...she took a punt when time wasn't on her side.

Here, there are over 250 applicants for a part time min wage in Asda.
Plenty of jobs my fucking arse.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 14:59:15

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Pearlywhites thankyou must of changed since I was egibaly (sp) must of got the one where it wasnt evety year thats good then smile

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 15:01:21

But it's pointless to be so nasty. It's wasted effort. It's not nice to see, so just leave her alone now, please.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 15:02:39

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trustissues75 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:02:40

If you think being nasty (and incredibly rude - really, asking where the father is????) gives you credibility you go right ahead Annabel....

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 15:02:40

I don't think she was boasting about her happy scrounging, either. She's worried as well....we all are, for one reason or another.

bochead Sun 24-Mar-13 15:03:55

I have no patience for the smugs and would prefer to swap tips on how to cope with the coming austerity while there is still time to learn how to fish iykwim.

I don't actually want any of the smugs to have to have to experience a quarter of what I've seen going on around me. For a start the shock means their mental health would be guaranteed to go, (and those with mental health issues are being royally screwed over already). Their kids would suffer, and actually I want to see all kids get a fair crack at the whip of life.

This link is quite old, but should still enable people to feed a family of four for a month on approx £125 given recent price rises
It's full of useful tips, such as replacing some of your wheat flour for ready brek in your pastry if you can't afford meat & dairy (ensure your kids still get a nutrionally balanced diet). I like meal planning as a way of managing my money, so was attracted to this site a few years back.

This book contains meal plans/shopping lists for those who are new to scratch cooking, so is a good starting point for anyone just starting out in their first place etc It's 8 weeks worth of meal plans for a family of four on a budget. is a good site for those in rural areas,or poor mobility to buy cheap close to BB date tins/pasta & other storable staples etc. (check the box to purchase in date foods).

A trip to the £1 shop to buy a window box, a bag of compost and a bag of spinach seeds will set you back all of three quid, yet managed carefully should supply a seasons worth of fresh spinach (high iron & calcium content for growing kids). This is a fraction of what bagged salad would cost in the shops and eating it as cut and grow will ensure it's at it's freshest and tastiest wink. (Sadly us paupers often don't have access to a garden for much grow your own produce, the waiting list for my local allottments is only a decade)

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 15:03:58

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Ok Annabel. So when ( in your opinion) Ms Feckless comes in to claim JSA we should ask her to cast her mind back to when she got up duffed and deny her benefits because she chose to keep her baby?
What about the child, should it starve because its mother brought it into the world when the govt provided assistance?
And if this were the case, and we could deny benefits on that basis, how quickly do you think it would take for claimants to cite contraception failure? Or they had a partner who worked, or they had shares in a dotcom enterprise that went bust, etc etc
Not so fucking simple is it?

I think if you're on a low income and/or not used to being paid monthly it's actually a big ask to change to that. A month is a long time to go without for any that spent heavily when they received funds.
Also think money going to one person in family is asking for trouble, who decides who that will be ? If it goes to the man (due to pressure from him ?) many women could be worse off and have less independence than currently, and children could suffer hardship too.

PearlyWhites Sun 24-Mar-13 15:06:06

Anabel I am not saying I agree with the choice she has made just that you could have made your point without being horrible.Also you don't know all her circumstances maybe she is in her early forties worried about her fertility and fully intends to get a job once baby is born.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 15:06:15

Just leave it now, Annabel, really. You've contributed nothing but bile so far.
Look at Bochead's post up above yours....this is what we want...plans for the future and how to get by, so come on, join in.

mam29 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:07:15

I dont know much about this as we dont get tax credits, housing.

but if husband were to lose his job we be entitled to these things we private rent which is high, have 3kids and no chance social housing.
we also have loan,credit cards we paying off.

Anyone can fall on hard times and welfare state there a safety net.

I like what mini saying about preparing for when things go crap.

we on tight budget and

we shop around

between aldis, farmfoods, lilds, poundshops to try keep costs down.

we go supermarket in evening at reduction time and buy reduced bread , meat and other stuff and freeze.

On week before payday we skint and a well stocked storecupboard and bit of bulk buying can be life saver when times are bad.

some cloth nappies for when run out and cant afford nappies.

I make sure my medicine. cupboard is well stocked
i have yeast, plain flour, self raising and baking powder

so i can make bread or cakes

I try ensure we have

some fruit
Kids love tinned and dried fruit
porridge but mosly make flapjacks with it
rice, pasta, lentils, passatta, tinned tomaties, oil, value herbs

I try batch cook and freeze.
I buy school uniform 2nd hand carboots, ebay and our school pta sells 2nd hand stuff so brought 5jumpers for £12.

I try buy most of kids clothes would say 90%2nd hand.

Another thing I find is im rubbish at saving i do try but then bill comes up and its spent.

so ideas that work for me i savings stamps or cards 1-2quid a week.
overbuying nappies, food and wipes when on offer.

i start birthdays around 2-3months before buying couple bits per month.

Xmas for me is best started in august.

last few years I made lots homemade pressies.

Been reading blog a girl called jack where she feeds herself and her boy on 10quid a week as thats all thats left. its been really inspiring and made me think where I could trim costs.

I think in life there are things we can control.
especially politics feel some awful decisions been made.

hubby gets paid monthly always has and yes its hard that last week putting £4 petrol in.

I think some people learn to budget but then i think well having big amount means people can buy in bulk and save and perhaps buy an appliance not have to go down brighthouse and pay extortionate amount over next 10years.

Im not sure about online aspect though. what about low income oaps and pension credits will they get universil online.
My mums in her 50s and cant use a computer.

hopefully they implement it properly.

Or maybe Harry Potter will lend us the house selector gadget.
Feckless go to Fuckallindor. The worthy to Quidsarein.
Because you would need a mystical omnipotent being in order to accurately define fecklessness.

Fab post Boc smile

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 15:08:54

Ok minouminou.

Meal planning is fantastic, I've always done it. Frozen veg, you can use a handful and no waste, also lentils and cheap tinned toms.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 15:09:24

One problem for people in deprived areas is travelling to cheap supermarkets like Aldi, so maybe a group of families could club together and take it in turns to get a taxi to the nearest branch - one family one week, another the next, so this will share the taxi fare out.
The family doing the shopping takes orders for the others, as well as getting his or her own shop in....will work out cheaper than bloody local corner shops. You could bulk buy some items.

trustissues75 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:09:29

Iv' eseen a couple of people having the impression that people are gtting pregnant on purpose to claim benefits - and I'm sure that does happen. But, is the benefits system actually encouraging this behaviour....

This article may suggest actually, not...

(Caveat, I have no idea what the benefits system was like in 1969 compared to today)

mam29 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:10:35

fab recipes here

mse forums wealth of info

credit crunch forum on mumsnet.

I know it sounds quite posh but

abel and cole £10min order and 99p delivery they bit like mini supermarket could get the basics.

AnnabelKarma Sun 24-Mar-13 15:10:36

School shoes from Sportsdirect - £6.50 a pair and last just as well as Clarks according to my friend so am gonna try them.

Aldi for bulk buying washing powder. Don't buy softener buy white vinegar and water down as a cleaner in kitchen and in softener drawer.

PearlyWhites Sun 24-Mar-13 15:11:20

Stars I think it depends on what local authority you live in I know the amount you get varies by authority. That was ridiculous that you only got two, did they think your child would never grow! In any case the grant would just about cover a pair decent winter coat nothing else.

Booyhoo Sun 24-Mar-13 15:11:41


these tips are great. i have decided to start posting some links and recipes on my FB wall so that anyone who might be struggling could see it (without having to let anyone know they are struggling as that can be a big issue for some people) and be helped. sometimes we cant see solutions when we are so desperate but if it appeared before us it might help some see that they have options to try and squeeze a bit more out of their money.

trustissues75 Sun 24-Mar-13 15:13:40

I used to find that I'd get INCREDIBLE deals after around 6.30 in a Thursday night in Tescos (bloody hate Tescos..they most certainly should not be benefitting from a scheme that basically puts JSA people into six week cycles of stocking shelves with almost no promise of a meaningful job at the end of it - Tescos is getting rich off tax payer's money...) but I digress....seriously amazing deals I used to get like 2 chicken breasts for 75p....I'd get there around 6 and just hang around...worth a shot ladies who are in dire straits....