So, MIL has told DH that an amniocentesis is "Basically like an abortion...

(56 Posts)
AllYoursBabooshka Sat 23-Mar-13 19:40:25

Where they drain half the amniotic fluid from around the baby"

She's a nurse!

I may need one and she has said I shouldn't have it.

DH momentarily shit himself, well until common sense kicked in.

AIBU to have no idea what to say to her? Things between us are already strained right now and I just can't believe she has told DH this knowing how worried he already is.

Wtf? sad

VinegarDrinker Sat 23-Mar-13 19:41:59

She is ill educated and wrong. She may be a nurse but she clearly has never seen an amnio or have the first clue what she us chatting about.

MDA Sat 23-Mar-13 19:42:48

Amazes me what MILs' say sometimes, even nurse ones. Mine was a nurse and thinks she knows everything medical. Most of it is fairly alarming

Our local hospital has an 0.5% chance of miscarriage - which means only 1 in 200 amnios carried out result in miscarriage.

Hardly an abortion FFS jeesh.

VinegarDrinker Sat 23-Mar-13 19:43:03

I would try to be dispassionate and just give her an info leaflet or internet print out to inform herself. Then ignore, ignore, ignore and refuse to discuss it any further.

hwjm1945 Sat 23-Mar-13 19:43:43

Just tell her what is involved and that she may have misunderstood the fact that amino carries I think a 1% Chance of miscarriage,if after that she continues to peddle her carp you will know she is looking to cause trouble

FergusSingsTheBlues Sat 23-Mar-13 19:45:56

Ive had a miscarriage.
I wasnt prepared to take the risk.
But yes, uninformed...and very irresponsible if shes a nurse ffs!

VinegarDrinker Sat 23-Mar-13 19:46:10

Yup the rate of miscarriage is less than 1% in the vast majority of units, which is pretty much the same risk at that stage as anyone else who hasn't had an amnio having a miscarriage.

Varya Sat 23-Mar-13 19:47:35

My daughter in law was going to turn down the amnio test but when we saw the doc she was offered a blood test instead and told that her baby was normal soon after this so it might be that some hospitals offer a blood test now instead of amnio test.

coffeeinbed Sat 23-Mar-13 19:49:22

Blood tests are offered before amnio.
OP, your MIL is out of order.

AllYoursBabooshka Sat 23-Mar-13 19:55:15

That's the thing, DH was simply explaining everything the doctor had told us and apparently as soon as she heard the word amniocentesis she started ranting at him.

We know very little at the moment and will find out everything on Monday after they do more scans.

She's normally very negative and always sees the bad but this is quite extreme even for her.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sat 23-Mar-13 19:58:37

Mil sounds ill informed or simply thick. You'll know which is most likely. Either way tell her to fuck off out of your business.

thebody Sat 23-Mar-13 19:59:06

I had one with dd1. It's fine. She's either stupid or just trying to hurt you. Either way ignore her. Silly cow.

Makinglists Sat 23-Mar-13 19:59:38

Very ill educated - if I remember right the stated Mc rate is around 1% (I think that figure may also include those pregnancies that would have MC naturally so in theory might be lower). I've had amnio and have a very healthy 2 year old. If you need advice about ante-natal testing that is more reliable and non-judgemental than I would really recommend contacting ARC (Antenatal Results and Choices) they are a wonderful small charity that support families who are going through the process of antenatal testing and the impact of this. Hope all goes well (hope I never meet your MIL professionaly!!)

Bakingtins Sat 23-Mar-13 20:00:29

How is that supposed to be in any sense helpful? I'm sure you'll weigh the small risk of amnio against your risk for the conditions you have concerns about. You must already be anxious about it all. Tell her to get lost.

LovesBeingWokenEveryNight Sat 23-Mar-13 20:02:38

Having had one myself I am disgusted at her. If that's the sort of stuff she says she should not be a nurse.

LovesBeingWokenEveryNight Sat 23-Mar-13 20:02:49

Ps best wishes op

ChristmasJubilee Sat 23-Mar-13 20:03:43

I wouldn't give her any further information - just let her know when the baby is born.

Lovelygoldboots Sat 23-Mar-13 20:07:09

Its horrible when you have to make this decision. Harder still when you have this kind of crap to contend with. I have three dc, had an amnio with two of them. It was fine and it was a very skilled team that performed it, the same people both times. Hope all goes well op, ignore her. You do not need to justify your decision to anyone.

AllYoursBabooshka Sat 23-Mar-13 20:11:49

Thanks for being so lovely. smile

The hospital were wonderful and we actually came out feeling quite positive despite the shock of finding out there might be a problem.

We just wanted to keep our parents in the know but I didn't expect that. My mother is the most tactless woman in Ireland and couldn't have been more lovely about the whole thing.

She really could have kept that to herself.

ENormaSnob Sat 23-Mar-13 20:15:42

Your mil is way out of order. And wrong.

Unless its her area of expertise <which it's obviously not> she needs to stfu.

DinglebertWangledack Sat 23-Mar-13 20:17:32

I don't normally advocate swearing at IL's but a phrase I reccomend for your MIL?

"Don't be so fucking stupid"

scrablet Sat 23-Mar-13 20:20:36

I had an amnio with DD2.
I spent the whole time in tears because had heard awful things and some well meaning friends said they had refused them because 'it wouldn't make any difference'.
We had our own reasons for proceding, but it felt hard. The actual procedure was fine and the consultant pointed out that DD2 wasn't bothered at all.
It really was more like a scan than anything else, the amount of fluid taken is miniscule!
Hope you won't let this bad reaction on MIL's part weigh on your mind.

SirBoobAlot Sat 23-Mar-13 20:20:37

What an insensitive witch. I hope you told her to go fuck herself!

Hope the amnio results come back clear.

AllYoursBabooshka Sat 23-Mar-13 20:20:39

See, that's exactly what I am afraid of popping out of my mouth next time I see her. grin

Well " Oh fuck off you thick twat" was what came to mind. blush

Poor old DH doesn't know what to do.

elliejjtiny Sat 23-Mar-13 20:22:34

I understand how you feel. My DC4 has been diagnosed with a cleft lip and the amount of uninformed rubbish that has come out of the mouths of various family members has been unbelievable. Tell your DH to listen to the people who know what they're talking about and good luck with the amnio.

Cailinsalach Sat 23-Mar-13 20:24:40

Is your MIL Irish too or a Catholic OP? Because she may be associating an amnio with a hard choice if there are problems.
My sil (also Irish Catholic) had an amnio on her second pregnancy after their first child was born with Downes. Luckily everything was ok but if there were problems I doubt my Mum, her MIL, would have been supportive.
That was a watershed moment in my life when I realised that principles are not just for other people to observe.

AllYoursBabooshka Sat 23-Mar-13 20:24:49

That's good to hear scrablet.

I was afraid of my family saying the whole 'it wouldn't make any difference' but they were brilliant.

Thanks again everyone.

Lovelygoldboots Sat 23-Mar-13 20:26:30

The "what difference does it make" argument was really fucking annoying ans upsetting. I just wanted to know and be informed. My dc do not have Downs syndrome but I did want to be prepared and accept who my baby was going to be if that makes any sense.

thebody Sat 23-Mar-13 20:29:47

Lovelygoldboots, yes agree totally with your post.

Hope all goes well for you op.

pigsDOfly Sat 23-Mar-13 20:32:11

Had an amnio with each of my 3 pgs and have 3 healthy adult children. This was years ago (eldest is now 33) it's probably even safer now. And this following a history of still birth and miscarriages - no amnios with those any of the problem ones.

Your MIL is nasty and talking crap.

I have a friend who's a nurse and sometimes her ignorance on medical matters has to be heard to be believed.

AllYoursBabooshka Sat 23-Mar-13 20:51:29

Yes Cailin she is Irish and a Catholic and I did think that at first but it's the actual procedure she has said is like an abortion.

I think it's a case of that is how she imagines it to be so is stating it as fact.

Cailinsalach Sat 23-Mar-13 21:06:23

So Allyours, she isn't trying to influence your DH from a religous or moral stance? Merely a medical viewpoint?
She doesn't seem well informed. I hope she hasn't upset either of you too much. If you can, ignore her, go ahead with your doctor's advice and take good care of yourself. I hope it all goes well....
( and to make sure I shall say a prayer to St Gerard Majella for you)

Iaintdunnuffink Sat 23-Mar-13 21:49:38

What a silly woman, it's a hard enough decision without people spouting crap you.

Coffeenowplease Sat 23-Mar-13 22:32:54

I would also go with "Dont be so fucking stupid. You cant possibly be a nurse and think rubbish like that and expect to keep your job " Im not very tolerant of bitchy stupidity.

Jenny70 Sat 23-Mar-13 22:33:39

MIL is obviously very mis-informed about procedure.

But that aside, an amnio is "a step" towards accepting a termination if there are problems.

A family friend had a termination after results of amnio were bad. She felt brow beaten & pushed into the termination, but with the lack of time her dr basically said an amnio is agreeing to consequences ....

I don't agree with this, as it can help prepare parents for a disability, deal with emotions etc, thus allowing birth to be celebration of birth, not shock @ disability.

Maybe mil feels it is the first step on the road? Even so, she can button it and keep her opinions to herself.

Coffeenowplease Sat 23-Mar-13 22:34:45

I would also suggest to her that if she came out with crap like that again, I might take it upon myself to inform the hospital in case she says it to a vulnerable patient..

SergeantSnarky Sat 23-Mar-13 23:34:00

It is a personal decision and your decision.
I have had two amnios for DC2 and 3 fully aware that the results (I paid for faster results each time) would have bearing on future decisions - I understood the consequences and risks of amniocentesis when I chose to have it done. I have been fortunate that both went well and results set my mind at rest unlike a blood test with my first that was a 'false positive' (very common but you are not told that when you agree to a double/triple test) It caused a lot of stress and ruined the pregnancy for me.

The amount of fluid taken is a v small syringe full and your body automatically makes that back up within 24 hours (I was told this when I asked if I should drink more water! --Failed biology a-level--)

Your MIL is being ignorant and unsupportive and I wouldn't tell her much else in future for your own sanity.

MummytoKatie Sat 23-Mar-13 23:40:03

I may be completely wrong about this but I think that due to their being no abortion in Ireland an amnio is occassionally used to "encourage" an abortion. Or at least this has happened in the past.

When I was a teenager a girl my age (so maybe 13 or 14) was very brutally raped in Ireland. She became pregnant and she and her family decided an abortion was the best option. Unfortunately the mum asked the Irish police if they wanted the foetus to be preserved for evidence. Cue long court case and the poor girl being prevented from leaving the country.

Anyway, it was then decided that she would have an amnio. (Maybe to collect evidence.) The girl miscarried which really shocked me but my mum said she had expected it to happen as in this sort of case the doctors are "not very careful" about the amnio.

This was 20 years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy.

So it may be that your MIL does have some (outdated and only applicable in a country with no legal abortion) backing for her info.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 23-Mar-13 23:49:15

I'm petrified about the teny tiny % of miscarriage associated with amnio but if your mil said that to me I would have laughed at her and called her a twat, then given her a telling off for trying to frighten someone using obviously bad training and a job she's not much good at.

SquinkieBunnies Sun 24-Mar-13 01:14:49

She should give back her Nursing license in shame, what an idiot!

nailak Sun 24-Mar-13 01:45:32

are you sure she never had one that resulted in miscarriage or anyone she knows?

"AIBU to have no idea what to say to her?"
YANBU. If you really don't want to have "Oh fuck off you thick twat" popping out of your mouth grin although I can't think why not, it's completely appropriate then it's probably best to steer clear of her and let DH say it to her instead.

Please tell us she doesn't come into contact with pregnant patients - I shudder to think of the damage she could cause if she does. It really is very unprofessional of her to be so uninformed. She does sound quite thick.

Montybojangles Sun 24-Mar-13 08:56:49

Wow, staggering ignorance. As a nurse there's lots of specialities I have a very limited knowledge about. If someone asks me about them I will say I'm not sure, I can find out for them, or direct them to someone in the field.
I've no idea what you should say to her, as I would probably be running along the lines of thick twattery too! (with a mumble that she might want to read her code of professional conduct again-"You must ensure any advice you give is evidence based"...!)

DreamingOfTheMaldives Sun 24-Mar-13 09:15:27

As if you haven't got enough to worry about without her saying this. I would have been livid if someone had said that to us. It's a hard enough decision to make and not one anyone takes lightly. Thankfully I've not had to make that decision myself but even knowing we may have to make that decision if screening tests came back high risk was hard enough.

I remember my step dad making some comment about why we needed Down syndrome screening and what would it matter. This was when I'd already said we were going to have the screening. I really snapped at him and told him that I wasn't having the discussion and it was nothing to do with ANYONE except DH and I.

Sometimes you have to make it really clear that uninvited opinions on important issues of your pregnancy are really not welcome. I think your MIL needs to be told this.

Hope all goes well with the amnio. flowers

Bunbaker Sun 24-Mar-13 09:36:45

"My daughter in law was going to turn down the amnio test but when we saw the doc she was offered a blood test instead and told that her baby was normal soon after this so it might be that some hospitals offer a blood test now instead of amnio test."

All women are offered the triple blood test in early pregnancy. It isn't a diagnostic test, but gives you the risk factor for various abnormalities or conditions. It isn't used instead of an amnio, but often women go on to have an amnio if their blood test returns a high risk.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 09:51:57

Just think, one day we'll be able to screen for incredibly thick with four in mouth syndrome.........

You could find out what the rate for MC after amnio your hospital has, as they vary. As PPs have said, it's usually around 1%, but obvs some are lower. This might reassure you or allow you to decide to go elsewhere.

Best wishes.

minouminou Sun 24-Mar-13 09:52:15

Foot in mouth.....DYAC!

VinegarDrinker Sun 24-Mar-13 09:58:50

I think the blood test referred to upthread might be cell-free fetal DNA, which is diagnostic in theory but only in the very early phases of being trialled at the moment in a couple of specialist centres.

lozster Sun 24-Mar-13 10:25:19

..... And this is the reason I told no one about the pregnancy before we got an all clear.....

Aibu isn't the best place for this thread - for info go to antenatal tests and choices.

Just to clear up one issue - there are diagnostic tests and screening tests. Amnio and cvs are the only diagnostic (ie give a 100% answer). Blood test and nuchal translucency are screening tests - they give you a likelihood of the chance there is an issue. There is a new blood test you can get privately called the harmony test. It is a screen but with a significantly lower rate of false positives than other bloods.

As others have said, the miscarriage rate is v low. I believe bit is also based on old data from days before ultra sound guidance for the test. You can look up stats per hospital/clinician too however they can be difficult to interpret as some women will go on to miscarry due to the nature of the problem they have.

I would say you have two choices here - nod and smile is one - ignore ignore ignore is the other.

mellen Sun 24-Mar-13 11:35:34

There is a blood test which can give diagnostic information rather than a risk measurement, but it isn't widely available yet.

Maggie111 Sun 24-Mar-13 11:41:49

Ignore her - she's an ignorant witch and debating with her wont help. My mother's the same. I have a 5 minute argument with her and just get so dismissive rather than angry she eventually says "Oh well if you think you know everything..." so I say "Thanks Mum, I do, anyway how's Coronation Street".....

If I need to mention the topic again I will say it with no room for debate "This is what we're doing on Thursday..."

I'm so sorry you're worried for your baby and having to deal with such crap... I assure you it's better to ride with the evil MIL than rant against her fundamentally broken mind.

Best of luck with the pregnancy xx

Bunbaker Sun 24-Mar-13 11:45:06

"There is a blood test which can give diagnostic information rather than a risk measurement, but it isn't widely available yet."

Oh, I haven't heard of this. DD is nearly 13 and it wasn't around then. That sounds like a great medical advance.

AllYoursBabooshka Sun 24-Mar-13 15:52:52

Basically the situation is we went for the 20 week scan (I was actually 21 weeks) and the Sonographer picked up that the skin on the back of our little ones neck is thicker than it should be at this point.

The maximum on average at this point is 6mm and our babies measured 7mm. The Sonographer was lovely and told us it could be as simple as the position he was in but we would have to have a chat with the doctor.

The doctor has referred us to the department of fecal medicine for a better scan and said they may suggest an amnio. He didn't want to worry us but didn't want me to get a shock if it was suggested either. It was all very positive.

When we got home we both chatted about things and were obviously worried but trying to reassure each other, as you do but we were OK.

We had promised to let our parents know if we had found out the sex so me and DS1 headed up to my parents and DH rang his mum and told her everything, he said he kept everything on a positive note but was actually looking a little hand holding too, it's his Mum and he kinda just wanted her to tell him everything would be alright.

As soon as she heard the word amnio went off at him about how I shouldn't have it and her exact words were

"MrBabs you do know that this is basically like an abortion where they will drain half of the amniotic fluid from around the baby and test it, Babs shouldn't have one, She's not having one is she?"

DH was shocked and said "No, I didn't know that. We won't be having that done" He said the words just popped out as he was, understandably a little taken aback so I won't kill him for it. grin He knows that's not true but was a little pale and flustered when I got back.

I am just seething that the one time he needs her she acts like this, trying to worry and upset him needlessly and for her complete insensitivity towards me and the situation, we know nothing at the moment so why go there? As I said, things are already strained between us due to other things.

The appointment is tomorrow and we will find out a lot more so fingers crossed.

<and breathe>

Lovelygoldboots Mon 25-Mar-13 08:19:52

One step at a time babooshka. See what the doc says. I hope everything goes well. But if your doc offers you amnio and you feel you would like the certainty of a clear answer that an amnio gives then take it. There is nothing to feel bad or guilty about.

EldritchCleavage Mon 25-Mar-13 11:26:54

Unless it was just a shock reaction, I would keep your MIL at a bit of a distance until you've got through this, as she doesn't sound very rational or very supportive.

Good luck with the further tests and with whatever you decide to do.

Montybojangles Mon 25-Mar-13 18:41:49

I hope your appointment went well today.

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