AIBU or is MIL re:potty training?(122 Posts)
I don't normally post on AIBU
because it scares the shit out of me , but this issue is really starting to get to me, so I could do with some honest opinions.
DS is 2.5 years old. He isn't potty trained. We tried a couple of months ago as he was showing an interest in the potty/toilet, but it quickly became apparent that he wasn't ready as he didn't seem to be able to tell when he wanted to go. We have since had DD, who is 8 weeks old, and DS is showing extreme jealousy, and even starting to revert backwards in some areas. So I do not think right now is the right time to try to potty train him either. I have a vague plan to wait until the weather's warmer, so we can spend lots of time in the garden (so saving my carpets from accidents!). I have no intention of persevering with the potty training until he can tell that he needs the toilet though.
MIL has been on at me from when DS was 9 months old about potty training him. Apparently with her son (my DH), she sat him on the potty after every meal until he went. Apparently he was fully trained by a year old (which is at odds to what DH remembers, as he remembers having a horrible accident at a family party when he was about 3, and he also remembers wetting the bed until he was quite old.)
So since DS was 9 months old MIL has been saying I need to sit him on the potty. I've tried explaining that what she did (sitting on the potty until he did something) is not really potty training, she basically just replaced a nappy with a potty. IMO potty training is the child being able to tell when they need to go before they go, then doing their business on the potty. I've also tried explaining that I think there's little point trying until he knows when he's about to go.
All of this is falling on deaf ears though, she always just says "there's only one reason a child isn't potty trained by a year old - idleness!" If I try and explain I just get "it's disgusting that he's not trained, how do you think he feels when all is little friends are trained and he's not? You can't get round this with fancy words and explanations, the only reason is idleness!" FWIW only 1 of his friends is potty trained
I've also said it's not idleness. Idleness basically means lazy, and I'm not lazy, I've made a conscious decision not to train yet. But she just goes on and on about me being idle. She is driving me absolutely mad.
Was the way she trained DH common in the 1970s? Is it just that practice has changed? (Although MIL seems adamant that even if practice has changed, it's changed because every mother is idle. Argh!) DH was born in 1978. I've asked my mum, and she said she did the same as I'm doing, but I was born in 1985 and my sister in 1988.
So please, should I have put DS on the potty from 9 months old? Should I be trying to force him? Who is being unreasonable here?
I was born in 1969 and have plenty of early recollections but none of being sat on a potty. I remember using a toilet when I was 2 though.
With a mil like yours, I wouldn't bother explaining anything as it's pointless. Just say, I'll do it my way.
You are right. She is wrong. Can you stop seeing her??
perhaps it is time for the old mn classic. that sounded rude. did you mean to be rude?
Next time she calls you idle, ask her to explain how changing your ds's nappies is not hard work, but shoving him on the potty for an hour is?
Do not force him, he will be put off. Ds1 had a terrible poo accident at 2.9 and it went everywhere. Even though I downplayed it he became scared of pooing on the potty and poo'd his pants till he was 3.6. (every single day and I was pg with ds2!)
You are doing the right thing. You will know when he is ready. Ds2 is haling off his nappy every time he is phooey so I think he will be ready soon, even though he is only two - both his siblings were 3 before they were really ready. Every child is different.
She sounds abit bonkers!
YANBU at all! My DS is also 2.5 and is not ready. We have tried but he is happy to be wet, isn't aware of when he needs to go and is having very frequent wet nappies so I don't think he has bladder control yet. I Am leaving the 'training' for now and encouraging him if he does want to sit on the potty but will start again more intensively with him in a few more months. From my experience with my DD who is now 5 it's just not worth pushing it until they are ready, I was tearing my hair out with her from 2 onwards and she wasn't ready until 2.9 months, but she did it in a week. I've learnt to be more relaxed second time around. Try not to listen to you MIL, my DM has also commented on how he SHOULD be trained by now but I just brush it off, as someone said to me, he won't be walking down the aisle in nappies! I think also you are right about him regressing slightly due to his new sibling, my DD had more accidents in the first few months of having her baby brother so is completely normal.
YANBU - what a COW !
It's what was done back when nappies were made of terry towelling and you had to soak huge buckets of them every day. Given the choice you'd have sat him on the potty as soon as he could sit up too.
I agree - potty trained is defined as asking to go to the loo, not being forced to use one instead of a nappy.
It might be a chicken or egg situation but your MIL is being massively unreasonable
and v v rude and should butt out. I would buy her a copy of Gina Ford Potty training (she takes an oldschool tone of voice but her methods are modern at least) and stick it up her ass ask her to read it.
Potty training commenced here just before DD2 was born. Bad idea, it's taken ages with lots of accidents and has been used by DD1 to gain attention, delay bed times and all sorts.
Three months after baby is born, things seem to settle down with my DD1 and friends with children of similar ages. If you want to get your MIL off your back then I would just pick a date in the future (eg May 1st) and say that you are starting then
and does she want to stay for a few days and deal with the inevitable mess
He is not phooey. Well, not much. I meant pooey :-)
You are right, she is wrong, ignore. Ime most boys aren't physically ready until nearer 3 yrs. I highly recommend a book called 'potty training boys', very easy read and a completely stress free way to toilet train. I say train but really there's no training involved. If you wait until your child is ready it will be completely stress free for all involved.
I never got the whole taking a week off work to potty train thing. I waited until ds was ready and when HE decided he didn't want to wear nappies any more he was dry day and night pretty much instantly.
I started to train all three of my ds's from 2.4, I'm 44 and ds's are teenagers now. Your ds would have probably been well on the way until the jealousy kicked in.
I think you're right to wait until he feels more secure before you start again.
I imagine your dh remembers wee accidents from a child due to the stress his Mother forced upon him to be dry and wet himself in bed due to stress from her, silly woman!
Ignore her and tell her to back off.
She sounds crazy, bullying and rude. I don't know why you even have to think about it, to be honest. Do what you feel is right for your child and if she challenges you again just say: "I will bring my child up as I see fit and would appreciate it if you could not get involved." Close her down. You don't need to engage with her.
She is being quite rude and forceful with her point of view so I think you may have to take a similar approach. You don't have to justify yourself to her whatsoever. If she's kept this up from 9 months til 2.5 I would be sick of it and probably just say look mil he is not your baby and it's none of your business so kindly keep your thoughts to yourself as we are not interested.
Don't be pressured if you know he's not ready! I had a baby when dd was 2.6. Mil had been on and on about how she thought dd was ready to potty train for ages, and as we stayed with pil for a month when ds was 1 month old and dd was 2.7, I let DH and mil have a bash at potty training as they were so keen. After a week they called it a day as dd had done not one single wee in the potty and was stubbornly refusing to go anywhere near it.
Instead I waited and waited and when dd was 2.11 she asked to have her nappy off one day and was willing to go and sit on the toilet every half hour. So that weekend I took the nappies away, offered the potty regularly and basically left it up to her, and she was dry and clean on day 3.
So much less stressful than months of accidents because your child isn't ready yet!
Well you are right and she is wrong, but actually it doesn't matter anyway, because she is wrong for sticking her nose in and thinking she is entitled to a say.
Is your DH not telling her to butt out and back off?
Things are different now.
Weaning is done later, potty training (by and large) is done later, and children are much happier and have fewer emotional hang ups than 20-30 years ago.
Tell her that.
SIBU and should wind her neck in. Previous posters are right, you don't have to convince or persuade her - especially if she's being so rude to you! - just disengage.
I have a DS2 the same age, not ready for potty training yet, and I'd laugh in the face of anyone who tried to persuade me otherwise.
I'm usually on the fence in MIL threads because often it is just differing opinions. Yes, how she did it was the 'done' thing in the 70's. Yes, how you're doing it is the 'done' thing now (and how I did it, FWIW). But she lost any sympathy from me when she started calling you idle. How rude! Your DH needs to tackle this and tell her to keep her opinions to herself.
She's bonkers!!! Shoving a baby on a potty and managing to catch the odd wee is not training. That baby would have had no idea.
Train your dim when you feel he is ready and you have time to see it through properly. There are kids much older than him in nappies.
Dim? Ds- auto correct fail
YANBU, she is.
Somewhere there is some study showing a correlation between early forced potty training and bed-wetting, I believe.
Anyway. I didn't force DS1 into being toilet trained, because apart from anything else he wasn't able to take his own clothes off - I know this wouldn't be a prerequisite for many people but it was one for me. He also couldn't at all tell when he needed a wee.
He was pooing in the toilet from about 2.4yo; he never poo'd in the potty at all
until he swallowed Daddy's wedding ring and Daddy had to go through the poo until it came out but it still took another year and a half for him to "get" the weeing thing.
He has never wet his bed here - he wet the bed once while staying over at MIL's with DH, because DH forgot to get him to go to the loo before going to bed.
You can call it idleness if you like - I chose not to have to be washing the floors/ furniture/ clothes/ bedclothes on a daily basis but carried on washing nappies instead until he was Ready. So he was 3.10 when he became "Ready" - so what?
Sorry, I think those smileys are probably a little inappropriate - I was nodding off as I was typing the last bit of that post and probably half-dreaming of something else entirely!
Agree with quesadilla. Close the bitch DOWN, this is your child and you will bring him up your way. Also this MIL is forgetting that every child is an individual, they will all progress at different rates.
My DD is 2yr 4months, she will be ready soon (probably) but im not going to bully her into it. We are planting the seeds now (when you get rid of the big heavy nappies you can wear groovy pants instead etc).
Your doing the right thing, just tell her where to get off!
She as mad as a box of frogs.
My gran used to put her children on the pot from 4 weeks old I guess she had an incentive though, less washing as they didn't have disposables or heating back in her day. So either way was a huge amount of effort.
I would wait until your ds is ready. It doesn't sound like a good time for him at the moment. You're not going to get anywhere if he's not, but you will give yourself heaps of stress. I just about got ds pot trained in the day when he just turned 3, but he still uses nappies at night as he's not ready to go through yet.
Oh, and btw my mother was the same!
Ds1 was potty trained at 2.10 and was dry during the day within 24 hours.
Ds2 was 3.3 was dry day and night within a week.
YANBU. Your MIL is wrong on the potty training but, even if she weren't, she is doubly wrong to keep hassling you about it when you've made your choice clear to her.
Waiting for warmer weather sounds like a good plan. My dd is 2.10 yrs and has just decided she doesn't want to wear nappies any more, which was, shall we say, less than ideal in the freezing temperatures this morning.
YANBU. I would tell her to back off. Or better still, get your DH to tell his mother to back off. Don't put up with her being so rude. In fact (disclaimer: 38wks pg here and very irritable), if she does this regularly I would refuse to see her until she shut up about it.
You could always point out some of the truths, such as only knowing one child his age who is potty trained, or the fact that DH remembers wetting the bed for a long time.
Your MIL must be a similar age to me, my DD was out of nappies day and night by her first birthday - but as mentioned upthread a bucket of soaking nappies to deal with each day was a HUGE incentive. Also back then disposable nappies were quite new-fangled and pretty crap tbh, a world away from what we have now.
I don't think our 'old' way was wrong, but neither is the, much later, 'new' way.
Your MIL is NBU to have an opinion which is different to yours but she certainly IBU to keep harping on about it. Your choice for your DC is just that - your choice.
It's not often I'm moved to post. This situation is not about potty training but about your MIL being incredibly rude. I doubt she'd listen to logic, and be told she's wrong, but she might listen to being told she's very rude and it is no longer a topic for discussion.
FWIW, what she did was more the done thing in the 50s than the 70s. In the 70s it was more like 15 monthss plus. 80s 2ish, and now we do the "ready" thing.
My MIL successfully trained all 3 of her children out of nappies by 18 months, using your MILs method. But she never said a word about mine still in nappies at 2.5 years. Because she is a polite, lovely person who believes her DIL is doing what she thinks is best for her children.
It was common to do it your MIL's way in the sixties and seventies, but by the time my children were born in the eighties it was seen as being out of date - and basically it just didn't work. It was luck rather than the child actually being aware of what they were doing.
In the eighties we were told that children weren't physically ready to toilet train until they were two, which is when we were advised to start training. Mine were trained at just turned two, with one exception, who was two years and three months, but he had medical problems which delayed his walking etc.
It was quick and easy to do it at two to be honest. In fact everyone I know did it then, with the very odd exception. My niece actually decided to train herself when she was a year and then months, but that was quite unusual.
Anyway, tell your MIL that it's actually none of her business how you raise your child (unless of course you were doing something seriously dangerous/detrimental to your child's wellbeing!)
I think this is a generational thing because my MIL was exactly the same (she is in her mid 70s, dh is in his 40s)
Toilet training by 1
they never wet the bed
bottles and rusks
Am in exactly the same situation as you OP - 2.5 yo DS who is not ready and showing extreme jealousy of newborn DS2 5weeks old!
We are also waiting a few months until he gets used to DS2 and the weather gets warmer. Luckily we don't have the MIL problem but agree most of DS1's friends aren't trained either and that's pretty normal!
Remember back in the 1970's they used terry towelling nappies so anything that saved you having to wash those they did. Hence using the potty as a nappy.
I have 2 boys, aged 10 and 7 and one trained much earlier than the other. Ds1 was in normal disposable nappies, trained at just before he was 3. But massively regressed when I had ds2 and I only trained him because it was clear he could tell me when he wanted to go.
Ds2 trained much earlier but I put this down to him being in reusable nappies which meant that he felt a bit damp when he had filled his nappy. Ds1 probably felt very dry in his disposables.
I think you need to have a look at these baby cages you hang out of your window used in the 1930's and think thank God times have changed
that is very true re. nappies and I know even my Mum in the 80s didn't have a washing machine, it was a twin tub in the garage and it was such a laborious task to wash anything
My daughter was about 3.8 when she was potty trained, i used to get her used to it, but didnt force the issue because she wasnt ready.
My nephew is 4.4, hes autistic and has only just starting to get the sensation of it.
Kids will do it when they are ready, not when they are forced
There's a big difference between toilet timing and toilet training.
No point pushing toileting until a child can tell you they need to go - and that's in my personal and professional opinion (nurse who is a mum of 3 and who used to run toileting and enuresis clinics).
Its definately a generational thing. From what I can gather the majority of children were potty trained by 18 mths in the 70s. My own mother was aghast I left it till my dd was 2 to start with her
Remember though that TT nappies felt very wet and uncomfortable for toddlers so this probably helped the process along (as well as the incentives for parents not having to wash them). Disposable nappies feel dry and comfortable for much longer so its harder to coax them out of them!
Your MIL sounds like my grandmother. It sounds like you're doing a good job recognising when your son isn't ready. Good luck, for whenever he's ready.
Back in the day, they used cloth nappies. So must have been a pain to wash etc. my mum used safety pins on mine. My mum also bottle fed, which apparently was a faff too. So all she did all day was feed, wash nappies.
So, I was trained at 18mo, which is when I could fully speak. So, the nappies went, and it was quite common practice. Although, I stopped having ff at 10 months
How things have changed.
You could just say ' you maybe an expert on dh, but when it comes to dc, I am the expert'.
Is your MIL from a different culture? When I was buying nappies for ds (about 2 years ago) the shop assistant told me her ds had been trained since before he was a year. Apparently that was the custom in her culture. She thought most mums who waited longer were lazy or/and misinformed.
Obviously your MIL is BVU to keep going on about it but if she is surrounded by people who trained earlier then that might explain her concern.
YANBU to train when you feel your ds is ready. Tell your MIL that you won't be swayed by her constant comments and get your dh to reinforce it. (or ask her to buy the Pete the Pirate book as her 'help' in the process )
I recall reading about this method of early potty training, and the author said that the children weren't potty trained, they were simply conditioned to 'go' when put on the potty - but they didn't have conscious control over their toiletting, so they were not potty trained.
You are doing absolutely the right thing, BionicEmu - you are being guided by your child, and you will potty train him when he is ready for it. Tbh, I think children don't potty train until they are ready, so starting too early for your child just means a longer training period, and more accidents and stress. Totally not worth it.
Tell your MIL to wind her neck in. Or let me tell her!! This is one of the times when we need the Mumsnet Posse - so a bunch of mumsnetters could turn up on your doorstep, and talk to your MIL for you - we'd have nothing to lose!
I agree it's a generational thing. My MIL very generously says she trained her children too early and she thinks it's much better that I'll wait with DD. My MIL has been impressed to see how quickly older children of this generation 'get it' and says it was a nightmare when she trained DH and DSil at a year with lots of tears from all parties.
My mother on the other hand is less supportive and merely says I have more money than sense if I'm happy to keep buying nappies! DD is 16 months!!
My mum was always on my case about training DD1 too - same thing, "I sat you on the potty with a book on your lap after every meal" yadda yadda.
However the differences between my mum and your MIL are legion:
1. She listened to me when I explained that things had changed;
2. It made sense to her that today's nappies are easier than the terry ones she used for me;
3. She respected my "right" as the mum to make the final call about things like potty training for my own children;
4. She never called me lazy or idle - I doubt she even thought it let alone said it!!
Good luck OP, your MIL sounds like a piece of work.
Oh I forgot to say YADNBU, but I think that was clear from my post!
The problem here, is actually your mil. She is being quite simply rude.
Stick to your way & ignore!
Do you have my mil? Ds is just over 3 and still has no idea about potty training. My mil seems to think that if we just start potty training he'll just get it she's starting to make me cross as there's only so many times I can say we will potty train him when he's ready mil. Have told dh next time she mentions it to stick up for our decision and tell her to butt out instead of leaving it all to me.
Another thing, BionicEmu - you are absolutely right that it is much, much easier to potty train in the summer.
My Dd was 2.10y when I trained her and it was a ridiculously easy process which took about 10days from start to finish to be dry all day and do all her poos in the toilet.
I am so glad I waited that little bit extra time. Don't let your mother in law bully you. You know best.
Oh and ds will practice on the toilet or potty at home and at nursery but nothing happens. He can tell us when he's done a poo but has no idea about wees at all. He's tall for his age so yes I feel a bit crap that's he's still in nappies and yes I'm probably judged but I am still going o wait until hes ready.
proper grumpy about this subject
Do it your way and wait until summer. It will be easier for you and all involved as both children will be that much older. I'd just limit my time with MIL if I were you, or if you HAVE to see her just heap on sickly sweet praise about how AMAZING she must have been back in the day to have had him trained so much earlier than child development guidleines state. It'll either confuse or give her the hint that she should shut up
Mine were both three and a half when I 'trained' them. They were almost immediately very reliably dry in the day.
Dc1 didn't stop wearing nappies at night until he was getting on for 6, but again, very, very few accidents. Dc2 is still in night nappies at five and a half - we tried (at his initiative) a couple of times over the last couple of years but he just doesn't wake up when he wets the bed. I'm convinced it's largely physiological, esp night-time dryness, and not inclined to force it. My mother claimed I was wanting to keep them as babies.
I do hope she's not saying any of this to your DS: language such as "disgusting" and "idle" could easily go his way, too! Bad enough you're being targetted with such harsh words. Is this your normal relationship?
You should never PT around the time of a new baby, moving house or death in the family. Why distress a child further with further lack of control?
There are really sound medical reasons for leaving toilet training until a child is older. Once children learn to "hold" their wee, they become more susceptible to urinary tract infections. Once they learn to "hold" their poo, they become more susceptible to impacted bowels. I read an article on it by a paediatrician who specialised in this. I'm at work, so can't find it just at the moment, but I'll see if I can find it and link to it later.
YNBU with bells on! My DS2 is 3.4 and has only been fully potty trained for about a month. Like you, I have a baby, DS3 who is 11 weeks. In my opinion, there's NO point in forcing them before they're ready, it just creates a load of aggro and stresses you both out. I know a couple of children the same age as DS1 (6) who were "potty trained" way before they were ready, both still have issues with pooing and weeing. My friend has 3 grown up boys (all born in the 70s), for me she is the Fountain Of All Knowledge when it comes to raising boys. She reckons it's pointless portly training little boys before they're around 3 yrs old as they don't have a clue (and she used terries). I think your MIL is seeing things through rose-tinted glasses. Ignore her!
no no no no no no no no no. Your MiL sounds a bit unreasonable. I only just managed to train my 3.5 yr old girl (although there was no point in waiting until she knew she needed to go, she never knew. She basically learned how to tell she needed to go by having accidents). DS has a lot of fun on the potty, but he's not in any way ready yet at just two, he's not motivated or interested and I've had enough unpleasantness trying to potty train DD for one life time thankyouverymuch. If they're not ready, they're not ready. It's not idle, it's trying to maintain a pleasant family life without the frustration, weeping and general mess of potty training a toddler who isn't ready
remembers the day DD smeared poo all over the living room
Firstly, your MIL is being very rude.
Secondly, no YANBU to have not potty trained a 2.5 yo yet. He's clearly not ready and you are being a responsive parent by recognising that. There's nothing to be gained by forcing the issue and it certainly has nothing to do with you being lazy. DS2 is a similar age and most of his peers aren't trained yet either. DS1 trained at around 2.5, but he was ready and we were done and dusted in a few days.
Ignore your MIL. She's clearly out of touch.
I'm sorry but I mustn't be potty trained either as I'm pmsl at her comment about "idleness".
She is unreasonable. You are not.
You can deal with it two ways - let her keep saying what she is and just let it go in one ear and out the other ("Thanks...we'll take that on board when we're ready and DS is ready to potty train") or tell her "Thanks - I appreciate your input but it's not helpful to anyone so please stop commenting on DS potty training". Good luck with the potty training too.
My mum was the same, I was born around the same time as your husband and to listen to her you'd think I came out toilet trained.
My second child was due when my eldest was fourteen months and my mum went on and on about how brilliant it was that my first would be well out of nappies by the time the second came along
I got round it by nodding, smiling and then doing whatever the hell I liked
like I do with most of her unhelpful comments as disgreeing would cause and argument and really, only my (and my DH) opinions mattered anyway.
DS1 was dry at 2.5 and it took two weeks (took longer for clean but common with boys). DS2 was almost 3 before he was ready. Your own child will let you know when he's ready.
The way your MIL potty trained was not uncommon in the 1970's - I'm a baby of that era and my Mum told me (many many) times that I was 'potty trained' by the time I was 1. I think we now call it 'elimination training' and someone upthread described it as replacing a nappy with a potty - that's about it, you basically put your baby on the potty at a time they are likely to poo/wee anyway and it goes there instead of the nappy. This was back in the day of pretty rubbish cloth nappies with associated lots of washing and nappy rash, so the quicker babies were out them the better.
But you're right, there comes a time when a child understands their body better, recognises the feeling of needing to go and if you can read those signs and respond to them you're likely to find making the transition out of nappies much easier. I totally agree with you that there is an emotional side to it too and personally I think many babies/toddlers understand this is a big deal on some level - some are ready to do it and others need/want to be babies a bit longer.
Your MIL is being rude not to let this go, it's not up to her how and when you and your DS do this. If she won't listen to your reasoning, then try not to engage her on the topic! A simple, 'we're doing it this way' and don't try and justify yourself perhaps?
My DD was over 3 before she stopped wearing nappies, I think she understood what was going on for quite some time before that but got terribly upset if I tried to persuade her there was another way...
Sanity the "poo holding" is exactly the problem both the children I mentioned in my previous post have. Both are under a paediatrician and are on two types of laxatives. Both also have a lot of anxiety about pooing on the loo and regularly have accidents at the age of 6.5 and 7
I think I can reassure you with this....from my own experience with one son who was hard to potty train and one who trained himself. I did nothing differently.
FWIW my Mum was of the opinion that those who claimed their babies toilet-trained early had merely 'trained themselves to catch it' iyswim but she thought 3 was the latest you should leave it.
Most girls are probably ready by 3 and boys slightly later on average (my pfb still had one accident in Reception - young in his year) but as every child is different, you should take your lead from the child and remember it is not' a competition.
I also think with my pfb there was a stubborn desire 'to remain a baby' - he too was really jealous of his baby brother (who trained himself at 3). I could let it all happen in its own time as I was SAHP and an older Mum immune to any external pressures.
YANBU at all and your MIL is. Tell her to mind her own business.
Caffeinedrip, I think 'dim' was quite apt! This MUL is talking bullshit. It'sphysically impossible for a baby to be potty-trained at 9 months.
OP, I am older than your DH, and whilst it was the norm to potty-train at 18 months (or have girls sorted by 18 months), we now know that it's actually physiologically and psychologically better to wait - wait until each child is ready in their own time, more importantly.
You need to get tough on MIL - or rather, your DH does. Why isn't he (politely or not) telling her to fuck off with this nonsense? She sounds like she has a real bee in her bonnet about it. If your DH can remember having accidents, esp. in public, and she's lying about howpreposterously young she trained him at, then I reckon that she actually had a hard time potty training him, and was probably told she was idle, useless and so on and made to feel bad about it. She really sounds like shehas massive issues about all this and is working out her painful feelings via you.
If she won't shut up, you need to tell her that her constant bringing up of the subject, and her insulting you (idle? What a cow!) is making seeing her a thoroughly miserable experience, and therefore it is counterproductive and harmful for Ds for you to keep doing so. Make it clear that if she doesn't drop it, she doesn't see him, or you. Tell her that everything she is saying goes against medical research and current parenting advice, AND not only that, it is none of her business!
She feels no qualms about insulting you, get tough and put her in her place. If Ds hears any of this, it's going to make him feel ashamed, which is awful and would actually put him off trying to potty train. Stupid woman (her, not you). And if he does hear it, then she mustn't see him then.
MUL? There's a curse on people typing MIL correctly on this thread
Your MIl might well have sat her baby on the potty at 9mo. I bet she had to do that for months, if not years. If you start to toilet train your child when he is ready, then it could be done and dusted in a few days. She says idle, I say efficient, effective, and appropriate to the needs of the child.
You shouldn't force the issue- particularly not now, when there's a new baby on the scene. Your DS needs extra love and reassurance, not extra pressure- he doesn't need to do big bot things at a time when he probably feels that his position has been usurped.
I wouldn't bother explaining anything to MIL, you don't have to justify anything. If she trotted out that speech to me I'd be tempted to respond along teh lines of "And there's only one reason why people criticise other people's perfectly valid and up-to-date parenting choices- rudeness!" (Though you could equally substitute ignorance. And swear as well .)
your MIL is being rude, next time I'd call her on that, how about: "You know what MIL, I'm getting a bit sick of you calling me lazy because I'm not going to potty DS until he's ready, there's no way you can mean that any way other than being rude and calling me a bad mother, I think it's time we left/you left before I say something rude back."
(I'd also make it clear that only one of his friends are dry and the bulk of children you know aren't dry at 2.5 years old anymore)
"Well I was planning on doing it when the weather gets a bit better, but if you keep banging on about it, I'll leave it until she starts school"
Shocked at the 'baby cages' - that's almost like an April Fool it's so bad.
someone mentioned Gina ford up thread (excellent for potty training) she also said don't attempt an older child around a new arrival as a) stressful for the parents and b) (and probably more importantly) too much for the child. dealing with having a new sibling, knackered and distracted parents and then all the emotions caused by those things - to add potty training to the mix would be too much for even an angel! wait for warm weather when he can water your garden....!
Waiting worked for us. 2.5 is very young for a boy to train nowadays.
Nobody that doesn't have to care for a child (eg childminder, parent, nursery nurse) gets to have an opinion on whether that child is ready to train, imho.
My DH never pooed in a nappy apparantly, he was dangled over a potty from birth so MIL could catch them as she 'knew when he needed to go'! He was placed on it after every feed (only fed four times/day from birth too and he slept through the night from birth). He was totally out of nappies as soon as he walked (12 months) and dry after that. According to MIL that is- one of her friends happily tells me about DH weeing himself at a party aged 3.... He was born mid 70s. I think it was very common back then- doesn't mean it was in the best interest of the children!
MIL was highly critical that it took my boys until they were 2yrs 9 mths. I tried to ignore her and avoided her as much as possible- if you can do the same please do. I'm sure that MIL takes it as a personal insult when I do anything differently to how she did it- like it is a criticism that she did it wrong. She was most offended when I was surprised that DH was on neat cows milk at 6 months.
FWIW DH still sits on the loo for hours after meals, I entirely blame MILs potty training technique. I think he genuiniely doesn't know whether or not he needs to poo- he just has to sit there for ages and see if it happens!!! Hardly ideal!
Gosh, I would be concerned about the jealousy of DD and not the potty training.
My DS was much slower than DDs at being potty trained (think he was fully 3)so I wouldn't rush and def wait until summer but help him adjust to new rival first over anything else
and ignore MIL .
Don't bother trying to explain to MIL the reasons why she is wrong- you have already tried and she isn't listening to you. Adopt her approach- be rude. Repeat this phrase:
"I'm sorry why is it any of your business? You did it YOUR way with YOUR children and I will do it MY way with MY children. End of discussion"
She sounds like a right cow bag-idle indeed. Get DH to tell her to back the fuck off.
My dc were born in 1970 and 1974 and neither was toilet trained before the age of 2.Dd was just 2 [almost there at 20 months but not reliable till 2] and ds was definitely nearly 3.
I waited till they seemed ready and it wasn't a problem at all.
flossie - that's a technique called "elimination communication" - I think it's only possible if you spend every waking minute watching your baby for the "signs"!
Just wait until your child is ready. They will let you know. Ds was ready at 2 and a half, took 3 days to be dry day and night. Dd was dry at 18 months but she was very fluent with speech and in cloth nappies. I don't know if she felt the wetness more so did it sooner. She just whipped it off one day and that as that!
I don't believe in forcing children into something they are not ready to do. Tell her to butt out
Your MIL is being massively rude and unreasonable. But why suffer the stress of arguing with her? You won't change her mind.
Next time she accuses you of being idle, just agree with her. "Yes, MIL. I'm really lazy. It's terrible, isn't it? I would try to change, but unfortunately,as you pointed out, I'm too idle to try."
It's a version of the logical paradoxes that Captian Kirk uses to get despotic supercomputers/ spaceprobes to self-destruct. I can attest that it is extremely effective in inducing cognitive malfunction in annoying relatives.
Yanbu I was born in 78 and wasn't potty trained until nearly 3.
I'd try again when the weather warms up. Both ds 1&2 were potty trained in warm weather, I wouldn't worry about it though he will do it when he's ready
Which of you will be doing the extra washing and cleaning?
That person, and only that person, has the right to say when your son is potty-trained.
It is crazy sticking a young child on a potty before he/she is ready.
My DC's were born in the 80's and I had a friend with a daughter of the same age whose Mother had persuaded her to stick her on the potty after meals etc.
She got used to weeing every time she sat on hard plastic as I know to my cost when she sat on my sons plastic sit and ride car in my lounge!
Personally I found those pull up type nappies great when training.
Wow - this wouldn't even be about potty training for me. It's the fact she feels happy to talk to you like that, and you let her. I don't tend to spend time with people who directly call me idle or comment on how 'disgusting' one of my parenting choices is. They'd be shown the door tbh.
I'm afraid I would be passive aggressive and point out you want to wait until your son is ready to avoid the embarrassing accidents and late bed wetting your husband experienced.
Disclaimer: I have been around lots of children during potty training and realise accidents are par for the course and there can be other reasons for bedwetting, I just couldn't let her get away with her calling either of you idle or disgusting. She sounds barmy, and very attached to her rose tinted glasses.
Wait wait wait until he's ready - you'll know when! So much easier (and kinder IMO) for both of you. Your MIL is unbelievably rude
I am Having exactly the same pressure to potty train and my dd is just 26 months. It's really unfair as the ILs are not the parents.
Back then, they were told to potty train from a younger age but I understand trying to explain to them how times have changed just falls on deaf ears
Your MIL would think me ultra idle then as DS2 was 4 when he came out of nappies.
I had tried him earlier but he wasnt ready so had decided to wait until after we got back from a holiday as thought it would be easier with flying and being in starnge surroundings. However he was fascinated by firstly the plane then American toilets so decided he was going to poo in them. I took nappies off him when we got back and he was 'trained' within days, and with virtually no accidents.
But yes I was very very lazy, washing all that cloth and stuff
Potty 'training' was NOT the norm in the 70's. Both my dc's were born in the 70's and neither I nor my friends attempted any such thing. Sure there were weirdos who attempted it but they were considered strange, even then! Your MIL sounds horrid!
Tell her 'fully toilet trained' is being able to pull down trousers and.pants, get on the loo, do the business amd pull trousers back up.
There is no.way a one year old could do.that.
I was born in 1969 and was trained at around 18 months. My boys were trained when they were over 3. It was the one and only thing my mum ever queried about my parenting. But, she did not have disposables, and the washing machine was an upright contraption.
IMO, putting pressure on at this age, with a new baby would stack up potentially BIG problems for the future.
Both my boys were clean and dry really quickly, very few accidents, no nonsense with portable potties or pullups. I always advocate waiting
I would refuse to have any more conversations with her about it. It's none of her business anyway.
It is crazy expecting a child to suddenly be able to control their bowels and bladder because they've turned a certain age. It's like standing them up as soon as they are twelve months old and telling them they have to walk. If they're not developmentally ready then they're just not.
It's none of her business and I'd be tempted to tell her as much!
We potty trained DS at 2.10 and he was trained within a week and dry at night too. It just makes complete sense to wait until they are ready.
Next time just say " No I can't be arsed"
It's bollocks. She reminds me of mu aunt who insisted that her son was talking in complete grammatical sentences when he was 6m; and of my MIL whose children never had tantrums - though dh remembers having tantrums quite clearly; incidentally, MIL started trying to force me to give dd Ribena when she was less than 6weeks old, too.
I can promise you that though I was born in the late 50s my mother never potty trained me - nor either of my brohers - like that, and certainly didn't even try until we were much older.
Some people are just bonkers. Don't waste time trying to explain or engage at all. If you can't bear to ignore her, then just say something "like that was YOUR baby, this is mine". Let it wash over you, pretend that there's just some slightly annoying, but harmless, bug buzzing gently in the background, and think your own thoughts.
I did the putting on potty thing. It worked for my children. Not my business what anyone else does with theirs though, and I make a promise to my future potential daughter in laws never to say "I had your father sitting on a potty by 6 months".
(and yes, I am a weirdo)
Apologies for the delay in getting back to this thread, was helping a friend with a family emergency & only just got back.
Thankyou everyone for your replies, I was really starting to doubt myself but you've all reassured me. Especially as DS has suffered with chronic constipation since birth, he takes laxatives but sometimes he impacts anyway. Some of his poos have him in floods of tears, bless him. I really wanted it sorted before potty training, he's seen paediatrician since birth for the constipation and severe reflux, which he also still struggles with.
TBH I don't like my MIL. She's always criticizing me over anything, for example my house - she thinks it's a mess (which it's not, except by her standards), so she says things like "Well, some people care about what their house looks like, but we certainly can't call you houseproud!". Or, a few weeks ago they'd been doing some decorating in their house & dropped in for a visit & she said "Well, we've got to get going to tidy up, the upstairs is a complete mess, it's like being in your house!"
We've also had "Well we don't get tears from DS at Nana's house" (when DS was upset); "Well DS always sits nicely on a chair to drink his juice at our house." (When DS was just standing by the table drinking.) Then there's the "honestly, why are you just letting him run wild? You need to give him more rules, such as no shoes on in the house. When he's older he won't thank you for your idleness." And I could carry on all evening...
I could happily never see her again, but DS loves my FIL, who is actually quite nice. So I don't feel it's fair for DS to miss out on a relationship with his grandad just because his nana's awful. Incidentally, DS doesn't seem to like MIL either, won't let her hug him etc.
God, she sounds like a NIGHTMARE!!! Ignore, ignore, ignore. Now, I'm sure your DH is lovely, but do you have any minor irritations with him around the house? Does he for example leave his socks lying around? Never fill the car up? Anything like that will do. When your perfect MIL is spouting her usual drivel why don't you point out these issues as little failures on her parenting and see how she
bloody likes it! My paternal Grandmother was exactly the same to my lovely Mum: when you looked at my father, who although great, is completely unhousetrained you really wondered what parallel universe she was on!
Now I've seen your update I'm quite happy to share what worked with my mother.
According to her I was potty trained by 9 months,talking by 13 months and reading lord of the rings alone by 28 months.
Its all bollocks tho because some of my most embarrassing memory's involve wetting the bed at night pissing myself during the day up till I was 11 (yes you did read that correctly it does say 11) its documented in my medical notes that I was mute for years and the only thing I did with books until I was 5 was eat them.
One of my worst memory's is accidentally weeing on the stairs after my delightful sister deliberately locked me out of the bathroom just before my 11th birthday,my punishment was having a towel made into a nappy and being forced to wear it all day.
She started banging on about training when my first child was about 5 months old I snapped when dc was about 18 months after hearing the idle comment once to often handed dc to my brother who took her out of the way then I screamed
"Your a fucking rude lying cunt and if you carry on with your digs and nonsense I will no longer put myself in the position of having to listen. Are we perfectly clear about that? If the word yes is not the only word I fucking hear from you now,then you can fuck off out of my house and never come back"
A bit dramatic I know but she has not done it again nor anything else along the same lines.
I have more than a few minor irritations from DH - he pretty much doesn't do housework. But MIL never taught him to or expected him to as apparently it's women's work.
To answer a question up thread, no, she's not from a different culture - well, DH's family were all born & bred in various ex-mining villages in Derbyshire anyway!
I did lose my temper with her once last year when I just couldn't bite my tongue any more. She'd been here 5 mins and had already had several digs at me, so I shouted "you do not talk to me like that in my house in front of my children. Either be nice or piss off!" So she duly stomped out. Things were better for a weeks after she called me & apologized in tears, but we're back to normal now.
DH doesn't even like her, I'm the one that has to do all the visiting with the children. When I've complained about her to DH, he's just said "she doesn't mean to be rude, she's just too thick to understand that she's being rude."
I was a late 50s baby and according to DM was potty trained by 1 so was DB, apparently everyone was . I think we were just constantly shoved on the potty after every feed and in between.
I do clearly remember wetting the bed though so I must have been at least 3 to remember this. DM did go on about DS not being trained early all the while though. DS was ready at 3 in the day and it took very little time to do but he wasn't dry at night until 4-5 so we put him in pull-ups overnight and just tried to be relaxed about it.
Meh, DS1 trained himself at about 3 and DS2 has done the same (bar the occasional accident).
No hurry in my world.
Even the children of truly idle parents, downright neglectful, shitty parents, somehow are potty trained by the time they start school.
I think you can guide and encourage the child to potty train, but they are ready when they're ready.
I think training children in anything is a bit chicken and egg.
some one will impose a sleep structure on the child and say its that that worked and why they sleep.
the child may have just naturally fallen into that pattern anyway. children progress in whatever envionment they are brought up in and will naturally learn to go to the loo.
I have erred to the side of being led by my DD when she was ready rather than forcing anything.
we have had about 3 accidents since she was trained at 3. we showed her what to do, tried potty, special loo seat, and sort of let her come to it when ready.
I think the people who said this is not really about potty training at all are right. Your mil's behaviour is unacceptable. You've told her so before and it looks like it's high time for a reminder. Tell her that you don't find her comments acceptable and if she continues she'll have to leave. I'd be tempted to count her down to 'time out'!!! 'this is your first warning', 'this is your second warning' and then 'out!'. She's behaving in a very immature way, so let her feel it.
Not that I have unresolved issues about my own MIL or anything
<walks away muttering insanely about overbearing mother in laws>
Op I do think your DH is probably right though about your mil being of narrow vision shall we say.
I have found that people who focus on things like your mil - the house and idleness do have a narrow vision and sort of cling to thier own ability to keep things nice and clean to make them feel worth while.
I love that Albert Einstein quote " If a cluttered desk is the sign of a clutterd mind, what the sign of an empty desk then?"
I had DS in 1978 and i certainly didnt sit him on a potty all the time.
I honestly cant remember how old he was (and I'm sure most Mums in all reality cant remember from then)but I do know he coudnt go to play school unless he was potty trained, which he went at 3, so he must have been done by then.
He wasnt trained tho at 2 as we moved house at that age and I remmber having to stop to change him in the removal van.
He was in terries as well, disposables were like a large sanitary towel that slipped into plastic pants. They were useless and didnt use them.
Both my DS's were just after their third birthdays. I tried with both earlier but they didn't show interest. With both, in the end it only took a couple of days because they got it. DS2 almost mastered it at 20months but there were just slightly too many accidents.
My MIL was a bit like yours, op. I used to mutter to myself that some people have better things to think about - and do - than housework. I consoled myself that she just had an empty mind which couldn't cope with anything but cleaning and tidying. Helped a smidgin! I did, in the end, make dh do the visits with dd so I didn't actually have to see MIL and pompous vile sFIL at all. DH wasn't too happy, as he found his mum exasperating and hated his stepdad, but he did (eventually!) understand that it wasn't my job to cope with them if he wasn't prepared to.
My MIL is now completely demented, which is very sad, but it has made her much nicer.
She is being massively unreasonable to interfere in how you choose to PT, whatever the PT facts. I want her to be entirely wrong too, unfortunately I don't think she is (except about the laziness - entirely a matter of choice and deciding what suits your family).
You don't have to wait till they know before peeing to PT. We thought we were going to wait for that but our hand was forced for complicated reasons. DS didn't have a clue when he was going to pee, or indeed during or after he'd peed. After about a week in pants (or bare bummed at home, that worked best at first) he was asking for the potty regularly when he needed it. He was 3 though. I think he'd just got into the habit of peeing as he went along in his nappy so he never got the full feeling of needing to go.
We've been sitting the baby on the potty since about 3 months (again for somewhat complicated reasons, and in a lazy only when it suits us sort of way), and at 1 she is starting to "ask" (go and fetch/try to sit on the potty). So while she's by no means potty trained, she's a lot more aware than DS was at 3. And dry most nights if we get her to the toilet before the morning deluge. So I think you really can establish good habits with early pottying. Of course there's every chance baby will rebel as a toddler and still not PT till 3
All of which is beside the point cos your MIL is just being rude. She could reasonably tell you about early PT-ing/pottying ONCE and share how well it worked for her, but if you said that wasn't for you she should d***ed well shut up about it, it's none of her business.
She sounds priceless, OP; have you thought about writing a book. If you can put a bit of distance between you and her, you might be able to find her less upsetting.
Regarding the potty training, I would definitely leave it till DS is more settled in relation to DD. While I know that holding a baby over a potty from about 6 months was the norm until the 1960s, I am absolutely sure that by 1978 that was no longer usual at all. Do you have any photos of your DH at aged 1 to 2? They might reveal if he was wearing a nappy or not.
I really can't understand how a child can be fully trained at 12 months; even if they can walk or crawl to the potty in time, they wouldn't be able to manage their own clothes. Therefore they would have to be able to alert their mum to do it for them and be able to hold on while mum stops what she is doing in order to organise this process. Perhaps you could ask your MIL for details of how this was managed?
Bionic she sounds like a nightmare. I would just keep calling her on it every single time - find a single phrase to repeat over and over . (e.g . MiL your comments are rude and spiteful, please do not use them around me and my family).
Sock - that's awful
Inertia it was a long time ago and screaming in her face helped make me feel better and stopped her bickering about me refusing to treat my children how she treated me.
Weirdly nowadays (even tho I won't ever leave her unsupervised with my own children not even for a second) she is much better in general and wouldn't dream of advocating some of the things she did to me.
You don't need to explain anything about potty training to her. What she needs telling, is that your children are exactly that - yours! And she has no place pushing her ideas onto you. She had her turn when she had her children, and now it's your turn.
Stick to your guns, trying to potty train before he's ready will just make the whole process longer than it needs to be. I had the same pressures from parents but waited until DS showed interest in sitting on the potty, coming to.the loo with us. He was about 2.7 and it was quite an obvious and sudden change in him. I took his nappy off and he did about 3 wees on the floor before he started to get it, by the end of the week he was dry in the day, a few weeks later I realised his nappies were dry in the mornings too so took them off him at night and bingo, no more nappies and not one wet bed ever!. I do think we were quite lucky, he was a dream. But I also think that by waiting we caught him at the optimum time which helped.
Your MIL is rude. Even if she was "right" about potty training, it is absolutely none of her business. Although I agree with other posters it is a generational thing, it is still rude, I can't imagine passing any comment on my grandchildren s potty training as it is not my place
I was a 50's baby and apparently I was out of nappies by the age of one. When I asked my mother how that could possibly be as I surely couldn't articulate my need to go the toilet at that age she said " it was simple, I took you out of nappies, put you in knickers and every time you wet them I smacked your legs, you soon got the idea" well, that could explain why I have suffered from various bladder problems all my life!
In my limited experience, the later you leave it, the quicker they get the idea.
Your baby, your ways.
My dh used to say to his mother "fabulous, you can do that when you have your next child. With our child, we like to do it our way".
Mil was 60 when he said that to her so obviously no chance of having another child but it drove the point home.
Mil was never as bad as yours but after a few responses like that from dh, she is not as vocal in voicing disapproval. She's generally pretty sweet and means well.
Dd not trained until 3.7 and ds at 3.0 is due to be trained in a couple of weeks.
Trust your instincts. She maybe has an inferiority complex and is trying to prove that she was a better mum than you are (obviously not true)?
What's you relationship generally like with her?
What has it got to do with her though?
I can't believe you put up with it at all. I'd tell her to mind her own flaming business.
Of all the young children I have known, only one wasn't trained by the time he started primary school. He was very young for his year, and his parents had tried a few times without success and didn't want to push it. First day,he trained himself, was fine by the second day and nary an accident since. That's the latest I've heard in an NT child but absolutely not a bad outcome. Don't stress.
I think your husband's the one who needs
training. Doesn't do housework? With two
I have contributed to another thread about this.
I am now a grandmother and had my children in 1969 and 1972.We had terry towelling nappies then which had to be washed and dried daily so it was a nightmare in bad weather.I could not wait to get my two DSs out of nappies for this reason but if I was having them now it might be a differant matter.I used to say things to my DILs about this telling them they had it easy with disposables.
When my I was pregnant with DS2 I was determind to get DS1 potty trained so to avoid two lots of nappy washing.I was getting along fine with him, he was just 2, but when DS2 arrived he reverted to wetting and soiling himself again so back into nappies he had to go.He was 2.7 then, so I had to wait a few months to get him clean and dry.DS2 just about trained himself, he began to hate wearing a wet or dirty nappy at 18 months, and he would try and pull it off and was completly trained by 2 years, boast boast.
I got alot of nagging from my mother and MIL about children in nappies.My mother proudly told me that all of her five children were out of nappies at 12 months!.Yet I remember my brother still being in nappies at 2 years.My DM was another one who did what she called ''holding out''which was sitting tiny babies on a potty straight after a feed.Of course they would produce something if held long enough but a nappy was put on after, then the process would be repeated after the next feed, after the removal of a wet/soiled nappy.
It was just the way things were done then, they called it potty training.
This could be about my MIL. When DS was approx 18 months she started on auto repeat that when DH was 18 months she used to sit him on the potty while the family had their meals. How nice. No wonder DH has issues about privacy when going to the toilet. I just ignored it for a while and then after the 100th time I told her we were going to wait until he was ready. She still kept on but I just ignored it. We waited until we thought DS was ready and it worked out ok. Just waiting for the story to be rolled out again with DD. time to ignore again.
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