To think pushing a pram while smoking...

(236 Posts)
Damash12 Fri 22-Mar-13 06:58:48

Is just wrong!! I'm probably gonna get flamed but really??!! I see mum/dad pushing their babies with a fag resting on the handle, about level with child's head, all the fag smoke blowing nicely over the baby. And why do I find it even worse when it's a grandparent???

OhDearieDearieMe Fri 22-Mar-13 06:59:52

Gosh yeah - they really should be doing that inside. Must be very uncomfortable for them in these cold temperatures.

Smoking is disgusting. Smoking around kids even more so.

Twattybollocks Fri 22-Mar-13 07:35:08

So when the fuck else am I supposed to have a fag? Can't smoke inside the house, can't smoke inside anywhere really. Can't smoke in the car either. I find if I walk fast enough and hold the fag away from me the smoke goes behind me, and I blow the smoke upwards rather than forwards. My mother has never commented that the baby smells of smoke and believe me she has a smoke detector in her nose like a bloodhound.

bedmonster Fri 22-Mar-13 07:37:45

I wouldn't do it and I'm a smoker.

Purple2012 Fri 22-Mar-13 07:37:50

I cringe when I see it.

pigletmania Fri 22-Mar-13 07:38:14

They should not be doing that round their children at all, you know passive smoking and all that. Yes if they want to smoke they should stand out in th cold so what! That's the price you pay

scottishmummy Fri 22-Mar-13 07:44:10

Faggy mammies,yes it looks common
But I don't imagine they care what others think of them smoking over their baby

EggandSpooneyMara Fri 22-Mar-13 07:44:25

I think it's supposed to be a good idea to wash after having a cigarette so you don't transfer any toxins from your skin and clothes to the baby

Grandparents presumably get downtime to smoke away from kids

SneakyNinja Fri 22-Mar-13 07:45:51

Yanbu, rightly or wrongly I will judge.

MrsFruitcake Fri 22-Mar-13 07:52:07

Smoking in the car is worse - I saw this only yesterday, two babies strapped into a people carrier and both the driver and passenger smoking with the windows wound down about an inch. I wanted to shout at them.

RubyGates Fri 22-Mar-13 07:55:37

I suppose it just shows how ridiculoulsy addictive smoking is. If you are pretty much prevented from smoking anywhere else, and you still can't stop yourself from smoking while you're pushing a pram; your chances of EVER giving up must be pretty much nil.

Because these parents MUST love their tiny helpless babies as much as non-smokers, mustn't they?

JeremyPiven Fri 22-Mar-13 07:58:25

At least they were strapped in. I saw a car on motorway with 2 adults in front, 1 smoking. 1 adult in back with baby on her knee.

I judge that a lot, I find it quite unbelievable.

ScumbagCollegeDropout Fri 22-Mar-13 08:00:09

YANBU

I'm a smoker but I manage to refrain from lighting up if I am out with the kids.

I could just never do it. Totally wrong in my opinion.

It's disgusting. I can't stand to see it. When else can you have a fag?! When your child is not there to suffer your passive smoke.
I appreciate that there are worse fumes in car exhausts which are also right at baby level, but as a parent you cannot control that, you can however not add to your childs pollutionsad

MrsKeithRichards Fri 22-Mar-13 08:01:58

I too cringe, it looks awful. I smoke.

I remember parking ds1 in bus stop and standing outside to smoke!

Same with smoking in cars with kids. Rank.

HerrenaHarridan Fri 22-Mar-13 08:04:02

Yanbu. I hate this too.

My EXp couldn't understand why I made such an unecessary fuss about him wanting to smoke with dd in a back carrier shock

I once saw some one smoking while tucking their babies pram blanket
In the course of faffing I watched the still glowing ash land on her dd neck she then used the fag hand to bat it away smear it around bringing the cherry of it to within cm of dds face. Could see the poor baby flinching away from it. sad

It took all my self control not to publicly berate her, angry

But then I'm an ex smoker so apparently my opinion doesn't count
" none so zealous as the newly converted" hmm

Fanjounchained Fri 22-Mar-13 08:04:59

No you are not BU.

Twattybollocks you winding us up right ? Smoke outsided, without your baby.

Don't care if I'm being judgmental...this is absolutely one of my pet hates.

Dillydollydaydream Fri 22-Mar-13 08:05:36

My dad used to smoke in the house when we were little, it's only now when I go to visit them that I realise I must have stank of smoke when I was a little girl.

Fanjounchained Fri 22-Mar-13 08:06:41

Glad to see there are lots of smokers here who agree with me !

purrpurr Fri 22-Mar-13 08:11:32

Ex smoker here and I agree entirely.

ArtVandelay Fri 22-Mar-13 08:13:07

It's revolting. I have moved to a very poor area of Germany that is trapped in some sort of 70's timewarp. The streets are packed with smokers including parents puffing over babies. If I didn't do yoga every morning I think id combust some days. As it is I content myself with ordering people to get out of the way when they are waving their fags at DS face height. Utter peadants

ArtVandelay Fri 22-Mar-13 08:15:06

Haha! Posted too soon - peasants! Disclaimer - there are some nice people here too, but they are also in despair of all the smoking, spitting and general oafishness of the populace.

Feminine Fri 22-Mar-13 08:17:50

twatty then quit!

I did.

never looked back.

Twattybollocks Fri 22-Mar-13 08:18:32

No I am not winding you up. If the smoke was blowing in the babies face I wouldn't do it. Same as I don't smoke in the car or house because I don't want them breathing in the smoke. If someone else is with me I will ask them to push while I walk behind and smoke, but that's not always an option, so yes I have had the odd fag whilst pushing. I don't get any time to myself to have a cigarette most days, so I grab one when I can whenever the baby isn't crying for me or being held by me. Go ahead and judge me, I can take it.

Feminine Fri 22-Mar-13 08:22:12

twatty was a fuss!

Surely it would be easier to give up? confused

pigletmania Fri 22-Mar-13 08:24:34

Omg herrren that is awful poor baby sad

As long as they aren't' using the kid as an ashtray, who cares? Outdoors, the child is hardly going to be at risk unless she drops it in the pushchair...

Loosen up a bit wink

ChocolateCoins Fri 22-Mar-13 08:37:00

It's horrible. I don't understand how people can do it. I once caught my dad pushing DDs pram while smoking. I went CRAZY and he didn't understand why.

Don't get me started on smoking in a car with children in. angry fucking disgusting.

Samu2 Fri 22-Mar-13 08:38:33

I have done it in the past when I was desperate for a smoke. I am not proud of it.

I quit now and it was the best thing I have ever done for me and my children.

I don't judge, BTDT and know the desperation of being out and needing that hit. It looks gross, it IS gross but mostly I just pity smokers because I was one for 16 years and remember the trap well.

dashoflime Fri 22-Mar-13 08:41:56

I suppose parent facing isn't always best. At least it's outside.

Tailtwister Fri 22-Mar-13 08:47:02

YANBU, it's completely vile. I'm pleased to say that I see a lot less of it than I used to though. Smoking in cars with children in should be illegal imo. I believe it is in some countries.

It's not easy to quite though, especially when under stress when it seems like the only way to decompress. I smoked years ago (stopped pre-DC thankfully) and even now I sometimes crave a cigarette when I smell one.

Twattybollocks Fri 22-Mar-13 08:47:04

It would be better to give up certainly, but not easier just at the moment. I have set a date for dd1s birthday in July when dd2 will be 6 months old to stop smoking. Hopefully by then the worst of the night waking will be over and she will be in a bit of a routine so not quite as stressful as things are just now.

winnybella Fri 22-Mar-13 08:58:52

I don't get the outrage. If you push an outward facing pram and like Twatty says, hold the hand with the cigarette away and blow away from the pram AND you are outside...baby won't get any smoke on them.

The juxtaposition of a parent smoking and baby might offend your sensibilities but any harm to the baby is nonexistent.

lljkk Fri 22-Mar-13 09:03:51

YABVU.
Never been a smoker, btw. Just find the rage ridiculous.

pinkyponk67 Fri 22-Mar-13 09:03:59

YANBU, saw the same yesterday.

Just give up before you have kids fgs. I did. They even have smoking cessation midwives now!

Frogman Fri 22-Mar-13 09:05:07

Common as muck.

YANBU. I cringe when I see it. If people want to smoke, no problem, but don't make your kids breathe it in. The other horrid one is seeing a parent smoking in the car with the kids in too.

I don't smoke anymore except when I'm out and tipsy but the friends I have who smoke, smoke outside away from their dc.

meddie Fri 22-Mar-13 09:20:51

because pushing a baby along in a buggy which is at car exhaust level is absolutely fine of course.
They are outside. the smoke gets blown away. They are adults and hear enough about the risks to make their own decisions.
the government have done a right number on making smokers demons. While car drivers who pump out toxins into the atmosphere are untouched.

I never used to be able to walk and smoke anyway.

I much preferred to sit down and savour it, enjoy it...

<eyes glaze over>
<puffs on imaginary cigarette>

Tailtwister Fri 22-Mar-13 09:29:18

There's not much parents can do about car exhaust fumes though meddie. They CAN stop smoking around their children though.

Icanhasnickname Fri 22-Mar-13 09:37:50

Twatty....could you not smoke an electric cigarette? I wish they had been around when i quit.

Owllady Fri 22-Mar-13 09:43:40

I am always a bit shock when I see people pushing those double pushchairs with a baby underneath (are they called something ted pushchairs?) and smoking because surely all the ash drops onto the baby at the back?

Twattybollocks Fri 22-Mar-13 10:07:09

I dOnt want to start on the electric cigarettes, I'd smoke more because I can smoke them anywhere and I already feel crap about the 10 a day I do smoke. Having the baby actually stops me smoking as it means I have very limited times when I can have a cigarette so I smoke much less than I would if I could go out anytime. The less I smoke now the easier it will be to stop.

Twattybollocks Fri 22-Mar-13 10:09:23

Oh, and you can call me common if you like, but I'd rather be common than look down on someone when I have no idea of their life circumstances.

catgirl1976 Fri 22-Mar-13 10:11:36

I gave up as soon as I found out I was pg but sadly after nearly 2 years on them have started again angry

I only ever smoke out in the garden, then remove my top layer, wash my hands and clean my teeth before going near DS and I still feel shitty about that

I judge pram smokers.

FunnysInLaJardin Fri 22-Mar-13 10:16:23

it looks pretty awful but tbh in the scheme of things not something I get terribly upset about. I could never have done it and even now would never smoke in front of my DC. But that is more because I don't want them to pick up the habit and see it as normal, as I did growing up. I doubt they know I smoke my 2 fags a day tbh

plantsitter Fri 22-Mar-13 10:16:43

Those people who are saying 'surely it would be easier to give up' have obviously never smoked. Of course it isn't easier. Better, no doubt, but definitely not easier.

FreudiansSlipper Fri 22-Mar-13 10:16:54

Yes terrible awful call ss

do you never push your child in their buggy along a busy road the hight they are at is right right to take in all those car fumes which are far more dangerous than an odd whiff of cigarette smoke

Twatty, you say you make sure the smoke "goes behind you".

Quite possibly into the face of someone else's baby.

Well that's ok then. hmm

Honestly, smokers should have designated areas, I'm so sick of getting stuck walking behind a smoker (especially when I have the buggy). Faceful of smoke and ash flicking into my baby's face. Disgusting. Do it if you must, but a little consideration please.

MrsDeVere Fri 22-Mar-13 10:25:40

Twatty what life circumstances? confused

I think I must of done it when DD and DS1 were little. I would NEVER do it with my youngest ones because it is perfectly and abundantly clear how dangerous second hand smoke is.

My dad used to smoke 80 a day. I sat on many a grand parent's, uncle's etc knee whilst a fag dangled above my little head.

THEY did not have a clue.

WE do.

Even worse is seeing someone with a baby in a sling and smoking a fag. WTF?

Stop making excuses. Smoke if you want to.
Dont inflict it on children.

Nothing to do with being common. Its just wrong.

BuddyButters Fri 22-Mar-13 10:27:14

Totally agree. No excuse for it at all.

People who smoke in the street look awful and common. People who smoke while pushing a pram or buggy look even more awful and common. Revolting.

sue52 Fri 22-Mar-13 10:35:47

It is vile although it is a rare sight these days.

HerrenaHarridan Fri 22-Mar-13 10:39:09

Stopping smoking isn't anything like as difficult as people make out. Sometimes I think it's tobacco companies who started this rumour!

I smoked from 11 til about 24. So more than half my life at the time.

I went from smoking lots of spliffs and cigarettes, to a couple a day to none in a week.

The first 3 days were quite ratty and stressful but after that I just started to forget about it.
There were the crunch times when I would find myself saying " right now I would be having a fag so instead I'm going to..."
I distracted myself by doing something with my hands.

Tbf I had motivation, we wanted to try for a baby but I wouldn't stop using birth control until we had not smoked for 3 months.

I honestly don't know how smoking parents cope with the extra added stess of trying to get away from their baby so they can smoke x amount of times per day it would drive me crazy.

Kendodd Fri 22-Mar-13 10:40:47

I remember about five years ago going into a bakery (not greggs grin) there was a couple standing outside, one of them with a baby in a front sling, both smoking. Everyone in the shop was looking at them, slagging them off talking about how disgusting it was to be smoking around the baby.

If you do it, you are being judged.

fluffiphlox Fri 22-Mar-13 10:42:33

Multitasking?

Kendodd Fri 22-Mar-13 10:43:09

For the people who say how hard it is to stop smoking, is it easier to be breathing toxic fumes over your child instead?

EggandSpooneyMara Fri 22-Mar-13 10:46:19

I don't think it matters if the smoke is blowing away from the baby (though the people behind you may not appreciate - me being one of them esp if you smoke in a subway - but my point is you'll have all the chemical residue on your fingers and clothes and face, and then you'll be handling your baby, holding her, kissing her etc and nowhere to wash your hands first.

iyswim

MrsDeVere Fri 22-Mar-13 10:47:41

a woman at the school expressed horror at my sefishness at planning a homebirth with DC5.

Then she regaled me with a hilarious tale of how she got bollocked for smoking whilst in the labour room, her DP handing her fags though the window.

hmm

Mind you if she had chosen a homebirth she could have smoked in the comfort of her own bedroom...

BegoniaBampot Fri 22-Mar-13 10:49:48

I can't help judging on this. Smoking just looks common, smoking round your kids looks even more common. I imagine that folk who smoke outside around their kids probably do it at home and in the car etc. Of course I could be wrong but I can't help making snap judgements on this.

EggandSpooneyMara Fri 22-Mar-13 10:53:57

The woman next to me in the post natal ward was popping out for some 'fresh air' every hour or two in the day we'd had our babies

She was very young

she was a lovely mother but it made me feel a bit sad for her baby as she was breastfeeding him at the same time

The MWs all clearly knew it was euphemistic so I wonder if they said owt

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 22-Mar-13 10:58:13

I wouldn't do it myself personally, as a smoker. But I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't want my children to ever see me smoking, in case they grow up to think its ok. But that aside, the pollution from car fumes is logically far worse than what you would get from smoking a fag outside. Do you never take your baby near busy roads either?

Pigsmummy Fri 22-Mar-13 10:59:29

If people are still smoking and have small children I think that they must be either thick or thick skinned. If you are pushing a pram smoking then the baby is very likely to breathe some of it in, you will be transferring toxins from your hands onto the pram, do you stop to wash your hands before getting baby out and what happens if the baby cries? I can't imagine that you ignore the baby so as not to breathe toxins onto them when comforting them?

It's hard work being a smoker, rather than try harder why not give up? Or in the very least try E cigarettes.

MrsDeVere Fri 22-Mar-13 11:01:38

I don't go with the 'common' thing.

People from all backgrounds smoke and people from all backgrounds are selfish.

As a <cough> older woman I think I am most puzzled by why people would start smoking now days <gimmer>

People from previous generations had the excuse of ignorance. We really don't now.

I have been to two funerals recently of very young people. They have left their young (20s, 30s) children utterly bereft and their grandchildren too (people have their kids very young round here).

Smoking related. Their last years and months were awful and so painful for their families too.

These are people in their 40s and mid 50s.

I smoked for years. I will also admit to a fag when I go out for a drink but I only go out twice a year.

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 22-Mar-13 11:41:07

If people are still smoking and have small children I think that they must be either thick or thick skinned

Erm, I have small children and still smoke. I am neither thick nor thick skinned. But thanks for your rather unintelligent remarks.
hmm

specialsubject Fri 22-Mar-13 11:42:27

one of the things that puzzles me about smokers is that they light the thing and then just wave it around after one puff. That way they stink out everyone else without any apparent gain.

If you smoke, SMOKE - keep it in your mouth and keep inhaling.

Saw a woman earlier in a car with what looked to be a very young baby, smoking away with all the windows closed sad How on earth did she not think that was a bad idea?!

WhatsTheBuzz Fri 22-Mar-13 11:47:35

twatty, does that mean you smoked during pregnancy then? If not, you must be capable of quitting.

In fact, if anything should make you want to give up, it's having kids around, isn't it?

HappyMummyOfOne Fri 22-Mar-13 11:56:05

YANBU, hate seeing people smoking around children but dislike smoking in general. Some parents differ though and see nothing wrong with it or know the dangers and do it anyway.

Pigsmummy Fri 22-Mar-13 11:56:56

TheChaoGoesMu I meant that the amount of information around (with supporting evidence) today confirming the harmful effects of smoking mean that people haven't the intelligence to understand this information, that smoking is bad for you and your young children or that they developed a thick skin and are in denial about it. Even if you only smoke out of the house, the toxins stay on your skin, you would need to shower, wash hair, change your clothes etc to be 100% sure that you are clean of cigarettes and I am sure that smokers don't do that after every cigarette do they? What happens when baby cries mid cigarette, do you ignore them?

Previous generations didn't have that information, our generation however are swamped with it and therefore I stand by my comments.

Did you smoke in pregnancy?

NirvanaSmellsLikeTeenMother Fri 22-Mar-13 11:58:43

I smoke. I always try not to smoke when out with my DD but if I really must I find a quiet spot, park DD up and move a few metres away from her.
I hate seeing people smoke whilst pushing a pram, but I dont think its as bad if the pram is forward facing.

willyoulistentome Fri 22-Mar-13 12:00:56

I judge away happily when I see this sort of thing. Some parents are just selfish. I little girl in my sons Y3 class has very few friends because according to DS2 'she stink of wee..and cigarettes.' Poor little thing.

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 22-Mar-13 12:02:22

Yes I did Pigsmummy.

LastTangoInDevonshire Fri 22-Mar-13 12:02:56

You anti-smokers rise to the bait every time, don't you? Bet your blood pressures are through the roof!!!

Pigsmummy Fri 22-Mar-13 12:07:20

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Fakebook Fri 22-Mar-13 12:07:39

Yanbu. Revolting. Poor babies.

Pigsmummy Fri 22-Mar-13 12:11:50

I am not anti smoking, as an adult if you want to then do, (I did when out with friends drinking before pregnancy) but don't inflict it on your children who have no choices. They will be taught in school that it is bad for your health then they will be scared that you are doing it. Ask any child (school age) how they feel about their parents smoking and you won't get a positive answer and when they get older they are more likely to take up smoking too. (proven fact, children of smokers are more likely to smoke as young adults).

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 22-Mar-13 12:12:05

Actually I think I made rather a good effort of cutting down from 25 a day to 1 or 2 a day,Pigsmummy. But I'm sure my children will be grateful for your pity smile

Lottashakingoinon Fri 22-Mar-13 12:12:42

You anti-smokers rise to the bait every time, don't you? Bet your blood pressures are through the roof!!!

A bit like smokers' bp then eh?

And absolutely right on Mrs DeVere Why on earth would anyone take it up with all the information that is available. I would stop short of calling smokers thick or thick skinned, but if you are under 30 and smoke , I've got to ask WHY?????????????

I have every sympathy with people who try but cannot give up smoking (I have the same problem with eating!) But when I was 18 a million years ago I tried to take up smoking because all my friends did (pathetic) and I just couldn't, it was HORRIBLE. Maybe I was one of the lucky ones, but a lot of smokers say you have to power through the first few packs before it becomes enjoyable. So why would you bother?

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 22-Mar-13 12:14:51

You anti-smokers rise to the bait every time, don't you? Bet your blood pressures are through the roof!!!

You're not wrong there LastTango. Be careful of that high blood pressure eh ladies (and gents). It sure isn't good for you.

WhatsTheBuzz Fri 22-Mar-13 12:19:37

smoke during pregnancy and you're either fucking stupid or fucking selfish.

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 22-Mar-13 12:21:51

I'm not under 30 Lotta. I'm old. And smoking was seen as the cool thing to do when I was a teenager. I would hope that because smoking is far less acceptable these days, and there aren't many places in public where you can smoke, that my children would not think its cool, or worth the effort, once they reach adulthood.

UseHerName Fri 22-Mar-13 12:22:46

my granny used to smoke while i was in her arms and *blow the ash off my face^ - i grew up to be a doctor grin

probably still common as muck though wink

Lottashakingoinon Fri 22-Mar-13 12:26:30

That's exactly my point Chao grin

I too am old but my (adult) children are just about under 30 and they never took up smoking because it was just too much of a fag (did you see what I did there) and cnba!

zzzzz Fri 22-Mar-13 12:38:24

I think you YABVU. You might just as we'll sneer at people who choose to live in large polluted cities.

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 22-Mar-13 12:40:21

I saw what you did lotta grin. I like it.

Ashoething Fri 22-Mar-13 12:46:21

YANBU-its disgusting. Everyone in my family except myself smokes and I watched all my gp's die due to it. I hate smoking. I seethed when I was in the maternity ward and watched mothers standing outside in their dressing gowns smoking but I had a lot of anger in me anyway as have lost 3 baby dcs. I really do hate smokingangry

EggandSpooneyMara Fri 22-Mar-13 12:46:33

No smokers are not (all) stupid. They know and understand the risks but do it anyway.

Non smokers and smokers are equally able to be stupid.

But it is a stupid thing to do.

hairtearing Fri 22-Mar-13 12:55:53

I'll pass out if anyone actually tries to justify smoking/blowing smoke into a pram.

I'm a smoker, I always stop the pram/buggy face it away and then I stand a foot away and have a quick fag.

Zara1984 Fri 22-Mar-13 12:56:08

YANBU

I see it all the time in the area I live in. And smoking in cars.

Not surprising given that there is an outdoors smoking pagoda for pregnant and new mums in the hospital I gave birth in...! When I got admitted for high blood pressure in late pregnancy, in a ward of EIGHT pregnant women I was the only non-smoker. shock

Zara1984 Fri 22-Mar-13 12:57:49

It really pisses me off. My mum smoked heavily when she was pregnant with me and I was 4 lb 3 oz at full term sad

In some parts of the city I tend to always keep DS' rain cover on his pram so smoke/ash doesn't get in his face.

Trazzletoes Fri 22-Mar-13 13:04:05

zzzzz yes, because air pollution and blowing smoke in a baby's face are totally comparable hmm

MrsDeVere Fri 22-Mar-13 13:09:53

I'm not anti smoking but I am.

I am not anti it because its not illegal and being a smoker doesn't make you a bad person or a idiot or common or selfish. It just makes you a smoker.

But I am anti it because I suppose I just think why when it does such terrible, terrible things to you?

My DS1 smokes rollies and despite be starting smoking when I was 12 I am so upset I can barely look at him. His sister died from cancer FFS what is he doing!? It makes me want to cry. I know its OTT, I am not daft but I can't help it.

When I was a kid it was cool to smoke. No doubt about it. We were surrounded by it. You could smoke in hospital, on the tube and in cafes..everywhere.
Fag breaks were built in to the working day and every public space and building had ash trays as standard.

Advertising told us that smoking was a healthy and sexy pursuit.

When my oldest kids were small we had just started the 'going out the house for a fag' thing.

You can smoke for years and be ok but when you are not ok anymore it is utterly awful.

I do not look at a smoker and judge their intelligence or social standing. I DO wonder why you would keep doing it though.

Mind you I am one of those who can smoke on a night out and then not touch another fag for 6 months.

I am glad to see the opinion on here is pretty universal. I loathe smoking (mother smoked heavily when I was young before cancer got her). And now, while it is brilliant that you can't smoke inside, I hate running the gauntlet outside offices, walking behind stinky (yes very stinky) smokers who don't care that I am in their slipstream. And as for those who jump onto a bus / tube having had final suck on their fags - you really really stink! And i wouldn't want you anywhere a baby - and if you are pushing a pram, that is exactly where you are.

yellowhousewithareddoor Fri 22-Mar-13 13:28:50

I'm asthmatic and I remember as a child being in the car on long trips with two smokers who told me I was 'making a fuss' shudder.

seriouscakeeater Fri 22-Mar-13 13:42:56

YANBU I gave up when I became pregnant. Its hideous to see some one pushing a pram smoking a fag, that poor baby. Smoking during pregnancy is pure selfishness.

My MIL was convinced my unborn baby would be small as both her sons ( over 6,3 ) were tiny , around 5/6 pound. Nothing to do with u smoking 30/40 fags a day. [Hmm]

zzzzz Fri 22-Mar-13 13:50:41

I don't smoke personally, but i have no objections to those that do whatsoever. But smoking whilst pushing a pram, is disgusting!

LadyMaryQuiteContrary Fri 22-Mar-13 14:05:16

There's HUGE 'NO SMOKING' signs outside the main entrance of the hospital. The smoke blows inside, into the wards, into the foyer. Why the hell do people still do this? Smoking should be banned. I don't want to breathe in this crap and it's selfish to inflict this upon others who don't get a choice. It makes me soooo angry

ballstoit Fri 22-Mar-13 14:08:41

YANBU. My personal favourite was Mum at school gates, baby on hip, fag in other hand. Finishes fag and throws it on the floor. Gets baby's bottle out of insulated holder, pops it in her mouth and has a swig (I'm guessing to check the temperature). Then starts feeding it to the baby.

Barf.

BrianCoxandTheTempleofDOOM Fri 22-Mar-13 14:10:18

ex smoker, hate to see a cigarette being smoked anywhere near a baby

would never call it common though shock

Smokers trying to justify their habit by comparing it to exhaust fumes - grasping at straws IMO! smoking around children is wrong - end of.

If you want to get me REALLY judgey though - pram pushers with mobile in other hand, walking across the road as she texts and a toddler running ahead of her. Now that made me Queen of All Things Judgey this week! it's a fucking phone, you are not head of MI5, the call is not that important - make the call/text when your children are safely across the road!angry

havingamadmoment Fri 22-Mar-13 14:11:09

MIL smokes and when we walk somewhere together we all end up stinking of smoke - lifting the baby out of the pram gives you a waft of smoke smell. However, I dont say anything to MIL because we dont walk around on a daily basis and I wouldnt want to hurt her feelings - she is good to us. I would start to get twitchy if it was everyday simply because the clothes and blankets stink while the baby s parent facing!.

Nirvana1999 Fri 22-Mar-13 14:20:14

I smoke, I have small children. I don't push the pram and smoke, I fact the only places I smoke are my back garden and smoking areas outside pubs if I'm on a rare night out

I don't like smoking whilst walking down the street, can't be arsed with the Evil Glare Brigade.

BrianCoxandTheTempleofDOOM Fri 22-Mar-13 14:31:11

The Evil Glare Brigade - me! grin

In the throws of morning sickness I swore the next smoker to unintentionally waft smoke my way (the smell of which made me sick) was going to have vomit on their shoes!

BegoniaBampot Fri 22-Mar-13 14:41:19

I do think smokers are obviously a bit thick or gormless. First for smoking in the first place knowing what we know now, and for being so easily led that they had to smoke to be cool (sheep). And yes my blood pressure sometimes rises about smoking (not probably as much as most smokers though) as I have a lot of childhood issues with it to say nothing of having to nurse a dying mother who died of lung cancer.

Ashoething Fri 22-Mar-13 14:45:06

I was also a low birth weight baby-my mother took up smoking when she was pregnanthmm I then went on to have a low birth weight baby. So smoking didnt just affect myself it also effected the next generation. Yet people will keep trying to jusitfy their selfishness<mind boggles>

DragonMamma Fri 22-Mar-13 14:48:30

YANBU

I think it looks rough.

Yesterday, I saw a woman holding her 2 kids hands to cross the road with a fag in her mouth. She carried on down the road this way, just puffing away with no hands, letting all the ash blow whatever way it fancied. Looked so bad and she was so short that it blew all in her face.

I like the odd fag after a drink and have smoked off and on in the past but my DCs have never seen me smoke, I wouldn't want them to.

BegoniaBampot Fri 22-Mar-13 14:50:08

It does look rough, no matter who is doing. The queen could light up and she'd style look rough.

BegoniaBampot Fri 22-Mar-13 14:50:30

Style? Still

ComposHat Fri 22-Mar-13 14:54:32

They are only being thoughtful, why should the smoker get all the fun? It seems nice that they are letting the baby get some of the pleasure too.

Anyway not all of us can afford to buy fags for both us and our infants. Mine would get through 40 a day given half a chance. A quick passive smoke for the baby seems fairest all round with an occasional packet just as a treat on the weekend.

nethunsreject Fri 22-Mar-13 14:55:40

Yanbu.
I'm an ex smoker and stopped when I was pregnant, basically because there was NO WAY I was pushing a pushchair around with a baby in a buggy wink.

Wallison Fri 22-Mar-13 14:57:18

Who are these inconsiderate fools who smoke while in the open air? Much better to do it indoors - everyone knows that children do not breathe when they're inside houses.

Thurlow Fri 22-Mar-13 15:08:47

Wallison grin

I smoke. I have young DC. I have on rare occasions done what other posters have done, parked up and smoked away from the pushchair. Not proud of it and it has been a very rare occasion. Now I only smoke outside the house when DC isn't with me for one reason or another (asleep, with DP etc), or when I'm at work.

Obviously, I am both incredibly thick, gormless, and as common as muck.

OP, yabu to hoik on your judgey pants - and everyone insulting smokers is being massively U too - but yanbu because I imagine most parents could find a way to continue to smoke but without doing it right next to their baby.

But at the end of the day, if they do - it's their choice.

VerySmallSqueak Fri 22-Mar-13 15:13:40

I's out in the open air.
This is about intolerance of others not health implications for our kids.

everlong Fri 22-Mar-13 15:14:24

It's fecking horrible.
Don't care what anybody says.

Katiepoes Fri 22-Mar-13 15:16:03

It looks tacky yes - but surely little one is in the pram/buggy below your hands..and unless fags have changed since I quite smoke goes up....so how exactly is the smoke in the child's face?

Ragwort Fri 22-Mar-13 15:21:09

I'm not a smoker but I hate all the judginess about smoking. I am sure it is not at all easy to give up smoking and for people who don't smoke to say 'just don't do it' is really not understanding at all. Smoke is highly unlikely to blow into the babies' pram.

I eat and drink too much - does that mean I should not eat a bar of chocolate or have a glass of wine in front of my child? hmm I know I would be far healthier if I lost a couple of stone but just telling me to 'lose weight' isn't really going to work is it?

I hope you are all the perfect mothers that you make yourselves out to be.

I agree that I don't like it. But I do do it. Shamefaced I know.

Yfronts Fri 22-Mar-13 15:21:58

No there must be some health implications if smoke is blown all over baby 25 times a day even if outside!

VerySmallSqueak Fri 22-Mar-13 15:24:55

It'd be going it some to take your baby out in the pushchair 25 times a day with a fag. shock

I like that I'm gormless, thick AND common, just for smoking, never mind doing it near my baby.

Thurlow Fri 22-Mar-13 15:26:38

Very good point, ragwort. Is there a sliding scale of healthiness that is suitable to be an effective, 'intelligent', 'non-gormless' mum? So if you smoked, but also went to the gym and ate very healthily and were a target weight for your height, is that better or worse than not smoking, but never doing any exercise and eating an 'unhealthy' diet and maybe being overweight for your height? What about it you eat unhealthily in front of your children (so 'teaching them bad habits'), is that better or worse than smoking in front of your children?

Who is the final arbiter here?

Thurlow Fri 22-Mar-13 15:27:18

Oh, and visualise - ditto. I love being judged entirely on my one, currently legal vice...

I like that you presume that we all smoke 25 (at least) a day. I have no more than 5 a day. I normally wait until baby is in bed before having a fag outside, but sometimes I have one earlier in the day. Smoking is normally my 'me time', when I can just sit and relax and everything is quiet.

I have the occasional one while pushing the buggy. Smoke is NOT 'blown all over the baby'. He is forward facing, and more often than not has the raincover on as it rains/snows all the bloody time where we live. I would never smoke while he was parent facing.

Do not make that horrible generalisation that all smokers are the same.

Thank you Thurlow - and I agree with you. We eat healthily, we (well, mostly OH..!) exercises regularly, we have an active, out-doors type of lifestyle and live in the middle of nowhere. I really, honestly, do not believe that my baby being near me while I smoke the odd fag is really that awful, when you consider our 'lifestyle'.

tollyandfeste Fri 22-Mar-13 15:36:00

Our village has a fish & chip van on a friday about 8pm. A few weeks ago I was waiting and it was freezing (-3 and windy) and some girl came out of a pub with an approx 12month old child (baby + pub + 8pm. Not cute family dinner pub, locals piss up pub). She was wrapped up to the eye balls in a knee length puffa coat and scarf, fingerless mittens and bobble hat. Her poor poor DS in a buggy had a coat and a flimsy crochet blanket and no gloves or hat (just hood). She then stood there is the cold having a fag whilst the poor little thing sobbed and sobbed. She just waggled his buggy and didnt bother looking at him for 5 minutes, and then pulled a packet of mini cheddars out to feed him all the while with her disgusting fag. She tried to smile at me (I must have been open mouth staring, oops) but it took all my self control to to tell her 'that her DS was not hungry, but tited and freezing cold and needed cuddles and bed. I was so upset I burst into tears when I got home and was put right off my fish and chips. Poor little mite.
Yes I am judgy pants on this, but those who ask 'where should I have a fag' the answer is, 'when you are no where near your children or where they will be or when you will have to go near trhen within the next 20 minutes. (FSIDS website says it all). Smoking increases the chances of SIDS by 21 times. Not 21% but 21 TIMES.....

Wossname Fri 22-Mar-13 15:48:17

I had no idea that people are now so openly sneery about smokers shock

I don't smoke anymore, I stopped about 7 years ago, but my goodness how things have changed if the majority of people think you're a rough arsed no hoper because you smoke.

Wossname Fri 22-Mar-13 15:51:00

That's not in relation to, eg, post above mine which is clearly awful. Just the general feeling I mean.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 22-Mar-13 15:55:46

YANBU.

The thing about not judging anyone is rubbish. You can and should judge people who breathe smoke in their baby's face. They should be judged. They should feel bad. They should stop it. Bloody idiots.

Although I will say the ones who smoke with the child in the pram are not quite as stupid as the ones who smoke with a baby in a sling!

merlottits Fri 22-Mar-13 15:56:22

It is utterly repulsive. It is probably the scabbiest, vilest thing I see on a regulat basis. There seems to be a plethora of scummy pregnant, buggy pushing mothers near where I work and I can't help but stare. I want to sweep the babies away and shake the mothers. Selfish cows.

I am actually glad that it has become so taboo now and something that people judge so harshly. Poor, poor children breathing in all that cigarette smoke. I think within 10 years it will become so socially unnacceptable it will be a matter for Social Services.

orangebuccaneer Fri 22-Mar-13 15:57:47

Irrespective of how much the baby suffers if you smoke around it and the efficacy of blowing smoke away or not directly towards the baby, I'm fairly certain you dying slowly and painfully (lung cancer is not a nice way to go...) is going to negatively affect it.....

Because that's what smoking does. It kills you. Personally I'd like to be around to see my children grow up and have their own children, but hey, each to their own. I'm sure smoking's worth it hmm

Cockadoodlequack Fri 22-Mar-13 15:58:18

Has anyone admitted to smoking in pregnancy yet...?

I don't think that if you smoke you are 'rough'. I think that if you smoke over a pram or in close proximity to a baby it does make you look 'rough' and people will of course be judging you.

It's not common or rough - its just disgusting.

As someone said earlier, the smokers don't even inhale much - they just waft their ciggies around for their babies and for us all to enjoy. Tis shit.

ksrwr Fri 22-Mar-13 16:03:00

what i dont understand is why have a child, then actively try and shorten the amount of time you're around on this planet to see it grow up, by smoking? why would you smoke and knowingly contribute to them losing a parent sooner than they would naturally? i just dont get it...

i dont think smoking looks common, everyone from every walk of life does it.
i just think that bringing those chemicals into a home that a child lives in is wrong on every single level

hamdangle Fri 22-Mar-13 16:03:52

It's not about being common (I hate it when people make judgements like that)) but its about the health implications. I'm an ex smoker so know how hard it is to give up but if you can't give up for your kids then what are you going to give up for?

Smoking when pregnant doesn't just mean you could have a low weight baby it can cause miscarriage and significantly increases the risk of SIDS after birth as does smoking around your baby. It's not good enough to go outside either because you are still breathing out carbon monoxide a long time after you've stubbed out your fag. And walking behind the pram outside isn't safe either because a lot of the smoke you breath out is invisible so you can't see where it's blowing.

You wouldn't put your baby to sleep on its tummy with a pillow, would you? So don't smoke!!!

Lots of my friends smoke in the house while their children are in the room. That's their choice but I don't see them when I have my baby any more. It's just not worth it

I don't think people are openly sneery - we just complain privately or on Mumsnet.

I hate it in the summer when the smokers get all the nice outdoor tables at cafes. Fucks me right off!

Thurlow Fri 22-Mar-13 16:08:14

Look, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and FWIW I do agree that smoking right in front of a child or while pushing the buggy is not the world's greatest idea.

But are we going to take this as far as saying "I don't understand why you would actively try and shorten the amount of time you're on this planet by eating takeaways and junk food all the time" (increasing your risk of diabetes and heart disease, for example) or "I don't understand why you would actively try and shorten the amount of time you're on this planet by drinking every night"?

The absolute flaming an OP would get if they started an AIBU about a heavily overweight mother...

Chockyeggpants Fri 22-Mar-13 16:09:42

Absolutely disgusting that people smoke over and around children.
They are effectively shortening babies and children's lives through passive smoking.
I find it so abhorrent that I wish smoking was labelled by social services as abuse, and the children taken away should the parents refuse to stop. I think that some states in the USA do this. They certainly do it where children are born affected by mothers alcohol intake during pregnancy.
Suppose I shall be flamed now....

BegoniaBampot Fri 22-Mar-13 16:09:50

I'll judge if ai want to - I earned the right. my mum chain smoked through every pregnancy, smoked in our faces when she fed us. She, her children and our house stank of smoke. Made my first communion and she burned a hole in my veil before I'd even left the house. Every car trip, plane trip, bus trip was in the smoking section with all the smokers. I was constantly ill as a kid with coughs, colds etc, was it connected , who knows and god knows what long term damage it might have done. Also had to watch her die of lung cancer. When I see you smoking with your child, I'll assume you might be doing all that at home, why wouldn't you if you'll do it in public where everyone can see you.

namechangeguy Fri 22-Mar-13 16:10:15

Smokers don't give a shiny shite about their own health. Why would they care about anyone else's? They just extend their logic to those around them.

FarBetterNow Fri 22-Mar-13 16:10:30

Well said, RAGWORT.

Smoking isn't too clever, but the vitriol from the ant-smokers on here is harsh.

I presume that these posters raging about toxins don't use disposable nappies and wipes, because they are full of toxins too.
I expect nothing but organic food and drink passes their lips and they wash, shampoo and moisturise with organic products to avoid the toxins.
Don't bother coming to live in the country to avoid the environmental pollution as we have constant spraying of crops with toxins.

Well I don't object on the grounds that smokers are dumbly paying a fortune to get themselves sick.

I object on the grounds that it makes the atmosphere/everyone around toxic and stinky.

Me having a chocolate bar in the street isn't going to exactly effect my asthmatic children/neighbours though, will it?

UseHerName Fri 22-Mar-13 16:16:42

oh, i think the stereotypical demographic of mumsnet probably doesn't include many smokers, hence why there's not many posters who are smokers/smoked during pregnancy?

hamdangle Fri 22-Mar-13 16:17:41

I don't think you can compare the toxins in shampoo to smoking Haven't you read some of the posts above? Smoking increases the risk of SIDS by 21 times!!! That's staggering! If anything else increased the risk that much you wouldn't do it.

MilgramsLittleHelper Fri 22-Mar-13 16:20:13

I used to work for an NHS trust and it shocked me how many fullterm women were clustered around the maternity door entrance smoking one cig after the other. if you questioned them you'd get a response like "it's my body I can do whatever I like". It's dangerous for some people to have children, they really shouldn't.

Nirvana1999 Fri 22-Mar-13 16:21:58

namechangeguy I think it's quite a unfair thing to say. You're saying all smokers don't give a shit about others health because they smoke? I don't smoke in building entrances or walking down the street. I smoke in my back garden or as I said before designated smoking areas away from non smokers. But yeah you just tar us selfish smokers with the same brush eh...

MyMamaToldMe Fri 22-Mar-13 16:22:15

Young children and toddlers are especially sensitive to the effects of secondhand smoke, due to the fact that their bodies are still growing and developing and they breathe faster then adults and therefore may inhale more smoke.

Research has shown that children, who grow up in a smoky household, where one or both parents smoke, have twice the amount of respiratory and lung disorders.

This is a big bug bear of mine. Fine - you want to smoke but why inflict it on your children? You may have a healthy lifestyle in all other aspects - but this one does real damage!

I once saw a man waiting outside a shop with his baby in a buggy. He had his smoking hand resting on the closed hood of the buggy, and everytime he tipped his fag, the ash would land on the young baby's head! I HAD to say something, knowing that I would probably get a load of grief for it, but really - I couldn't just stand by and watch! (He did give me grief - he swore at me and told me to mind my own business - but he did put his fag out!)

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 22-Mar-13 16:23:28

Yeah, because baby wipes and cigarette smoke are exactly the same FarBetter hmm

tollyandfeste Fri 22-Mar-13 16:23:41

Just to add another point, it also drives me mad when in our town centre all the shops with a sticking out roof to keep shoppers dry have smokers standing under them, and the bus shelters too. Even the park benches and city centre benches have faggers puffing away. Would be nice to sit outside on sunny day and feed baby on bench. I do NOT want to have to push my baby (or myself if I have to pick up baby or even my dog for that matter) through the stench and fumes.

spanky2 Fri 22-Mar-13 16:25:19

Saw a woman smoking while pushing a toddler in his pushchair this morning . Yuck .sad

SneezingwakestheJesus Fri 22-Mar-13 16:28:35

I hate it when they trot out the line of "its my choice to smoke". What about their child's choice to not grow up with smoke around them? I agree with a previous poster that to some extent it is abusive. The same way it is abusive to an extent to feed your child junk food constantly so it gets overweight.

Its not fair to damage someone else through you own choices. I judge smokers with children and I don't mind admitting it. I have one SIL who stopped for her pregnancy and now smokes again. What was the point of starting again after stopping for nine months? My other SIL smoked her entire pregnancy even though her baby was planned and she was TTC for a year. Why isn't that baby precious enough to stop smoking for after the waiting it took to get him?

I just don't see the logic of it at all.

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 16:31:08

Honestly, the exhaust fumes from cars and lorries are extremely damaging, but I see children exposed to this pollution every single day. But I suppose it makes people feel better to look down on those horrid, common smokers.

FTR, I do not now nor have I ever smoked.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 22-Mar-13 16:34:59

Kitchen avoiding blowing smoke on your baby is very, very,very simple. Trying to protect your child from the exhaust fumes from cars and lorries is much more difficult.

One involves not smoking in your child's face the other involves moving somewhere where there is no pollution, never leaving the house or placing your child in a protective bubble.

It's not really the same is it?

Thurlow Fri 22-Mar-13 16:37:32

The logic of believing that all smokers smoke 20 a day, all smoke in bus shelters or outside shop doors, and all smoke around their DC is about as sound as believing that all drinkers drink a bottle of wine a day, drink on the street and get drunk in charge of their DC.

The majority of smokers I know, myself included, are well aware that it is a bad habit and one that non-smokers dislike being around. The majority of smokers I know smoke in their back garden, don't smoke around their DC or their non-smoking friends, have smoking coats/clothes, wash their hands and clean their teeth after each cigarette etc.

I suspect that this 'rough, nasty, gormless' impression is because of a limited impression of smokers posters have seen in public, and they are then applying that to everyone.

You can dislike smoking as much as you want, that's your right, and I'd be the first person to agree that the smoking ban was a great idea and has made pubs and restaurants a million times better than they were. Just don't tar every smoker with the same brush. Plenty of smokers follow current guidelines/advice about restricting second-hand smoke and will only have it as their (legal) treat in the evenings, or on a lunch break from work.

WorriedMummy73 Fri 22-Mar-13 16:38:20

My parents were both seriously heavy smokers when I was a kid as were most of my friends' parents, so I never noticed a smell of any sort cos I was so used to it. My Mum quit three years ago when a bad chest infection meant she physically couldn't smoke. She says it now makes her cringe to see people (including my Dad, who still smokes!) smoking and that the smell off them makes her feel ill. She feels embarrassed that she used to smell like that herself. And as she smoked through 5 pregnancies (and twins from first were born early and subsequently died - BOTH of them) and my youngest brother was also prem and had learning difficulties, she also says that when she sees pregnant women smoking she wants to shake the hell out of them.

everlong Fri 22-Mar-13 16:38:39

I see your point ragwort but how many of those mothers fagging it whilst pushing the pram actually not give a toss? I'd say quite a few.

I doubt most of them give it a seconds thought.

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 16:40:52

It is exactly the same. I can't honestly imagine that anyone outside pushing a pram would be leaning down and blowing smoke into the baby's face. Even if someone did that, it is likely that simply being outside would be enough for very little smoke to affect the baby. We're not talking about repeated exposure to cigarette smoke in an enclosed space.

But exposing a baby to air pollution can be very damaging indeed, and the pollution from cars is obviously greater than that from a single cigarette.

Pigsmummy Fri 22-Mar-13 16:44:04

Thurlow, it's great that you follow such stringent measures, exactly what is recommended however you are the only person that I have across ever who is so good, seriously no one I know (including a Nanny) does what you do, it's great that you do these things and other smokers on this thread could learn from you.

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 16:45:34

Actually, I should have said it isn't the same. Car exhaust is potentially much more damaging than a single cigarette in the open air.

SneezingwakestheJesus Fri 22-Mar-13 16:48:00

Kitchenandjumble, it is not exactly the same. One (pollution) is smoke and toxins that are part of daily life produced by other people that we can't easily opt out of to protect their children or easily avoid. The other (cigarettes) is smoke and toxins that are something the smoker brings into their daily life and could easily opt out if the protect their children and can very easily be avoided by not smoking. They may both be damaging but smoking is a lot more avoidable so they are definitely not the same thing.

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 16:52:00

Yes, I corrected myself to say they are not exactly the same. One (pollution) is potentially much worse.

As I said upthread, I'm not a smoker. I've never smoked. But all the shock-horror, rabid anti-smoking stuff can sometimes be just a way for people to feel superior to others. There seems to be an element of class bias as well (witness the "common" comments above).

Thurlow Fri 22-Mar-13 16:52:20

God, I'd be worried about a nanny who didn't follow the advice shock

But I am intrigued where people live or work if they see so much of it. Where I live and work the habit of 'smoking out of the way' is definitely followed.

The thing is, you don't see a lot of parents who smoke smoking around their DC because by definition they are smoking out of sight. That's why it is so ridiculous to tar all smokers with the same brush.

SneezingwakestheJesus Fri 22-Mar-13 16:56:51

Pollution may be worse but it is unavoidable. I can't personally get all te cars off the road so my dc doesn't breathe in exhaust fumes. Smoking and cigarettes are avoidable. I can choose not to smoke and choose for my dc not to breathe in cigarette smoke. Comparing the two the way you and other posters have done is really illogical. Why would someone choose to damage their child's health with something so easy to avoid? Saying that exhaust fumes are worse doesnt change the fact that smokers selfishly force toxins onto a child that they could completely avoid.

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 17:02:18

I'm always amused when I see parents out for a walk pointedly move a child away from a passerby with a cigarette in his hand, but closer to the road where the cars are breathing exhaust. Talk about illogical.

I do agree that we would all be better off if nobody smoked at all. But it is legal, and as long as it remains that way, taking precautions of only smoking outdoors is certainly better than the alternative.

SneezingwakestheJesus Fri 22-Mar-13 17:07:19

I wasn't talking about avoiding other people's smoke. I was talking about parents who choose to smoke around their own children and force avoidable toxins on them and how that is selfish. I can't avoid exhaust fumes and I can't avoid smokers on the street but I can avoid adding to those toxins that my dc has to breathe by not smoking myself. Parents who choose to smoke when it can be avoided are selfish and I don't buy the argument that "oh there are all these other toxins in the air anyway so what's one more from smoking!" that a lot of people seem to trot out on this type of thread.

MrsDeVere Fri 22-Mar-13 17:08:51

I don't understand the smoking/pollution argument tbh.

Because if you smoke and take your child out (and I am assuming that you do) your child is being damaged by smoking and pollution.

There really is no argument for smoking around children.
There just isn't.

I am pretty sure my parent's wouldn't have done it if they had the information I have. I am pretty sure my dad would still be alive too. He wouldn't have died aged 57 with the bone density of a 80 year old and a totally fucked up body.

Its not just lung cancer that kills you.

I remember when DD was in the oncology ward of the Middlesex. There was a landing on the floor below where the vascular patients would congregate smoking.
People in wheelchairs with double amputations still smoking and doing it below the children's cancer ward. Their stupid smoke drifting into the ward where a ward full of children with cancers were trying to get better.

Selfish, stupid fuckers.

Am I vitriolic about those smokers? Yes I fucking am.

WorriedMummy73 Fri 22-Mar-13 17:10:57

Yep, pretty much EVERYTHING MrsDevere says above. Can't wait to see the smoker's brigade's come back to that!

tollyandfeste Fri 22-Mar-13 17:11:39

Thurlow, you sound like a lovely mummy, my DP smokes and he like you makes sure he never smokes around DD or is smoke smelling near her. I am not anti smokers, just anti the ones that have no consideration for others around them. Hell, I cant seem to give up chocolate so I can understand how hard it is to give up a an addictive substance like tobacco. I just wish smokers were all like you and my DP and realised that it is dangerous and it shouldnt be inflicted upon others.

Thurlow- lucky you! Where I live, you see it all the bloody time.

FeckOffCup Fri 22-Mar-13 17:14:54

I can't work out if some of the posts on this thread are serious or taking the piss. Do some people really think that children should be taken away by social services if their parents smoke? The child would be better off in the care system than with their loving parent(s) who sometimes have a cigarette while walking out in the open air? Really?

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 17:16:06

No, that wasn't my point. I meant that people are wildly overstating the danger of a single cigarette in the open air, while blithely ignoring the greater danger of exhaust emissions.

As I wrote above, it would be better if no one ever smoked at all. And I say that as someone whose parents both smoked like chimneys, in the house, in the car, everywhere. I don't have any health issues as a result, but I have no idea why (and AFAIK, neither do the medical professionals). And I certainly never wanted to smoke. Having parents who were chain smokers was enough of a deterrent for me!

FingersCrossedLegsNot Fri 22-Mar-13 17:17:14

It's disgusting and I have to say I generally assume (maybe wrongly) they are the ones that will smoke while pregnant!

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 17:17:25

My last post was addressed to Sneezing.

Thurlow Fri 22-Mar-13 17:25:18

Yes, feck, that attitude from some posters is what has pissed me off and got me repeatedly posting.

FarBetterNow Fri 22-Mar-13 17:29:39

Many of you who are having a go at smokers could avoid your DCs being in contact with many other toxins, but many of you choose not.

I think the harm from artificial sweeteners is massive and they are in all sorts of foods and drinks. Hopefully all you anti smokers don't let your children ingest those toxins.

Disposable nappies do contain toxins, but I doubt there will be many studies done on their adverse effects.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Fri 22-Mar-13 17:29:40

I think those that believe their 'righteous judginess' makes anybody change their behaviour one iota are highly deluding themselves.

SneezingwakestheJesus Fri 22-Mar-13 17:33:32

Its not just a single cigarette though is it? Its one that they have visibly seen the person smoking but it could be one of many through out the day that the baby is subjected to without choice. It all adds up. Plus, its not just the smoke which blows away that concerns people. Its the toxins on the smoker's hands, clothes and breath afterwards which will probably be transferred onto the baby.

Also, exhaust fumes may be a greater danger than a single cigarette but people are probably ignoring that fact as exhaust fumes aren't forced on the baby by the parent as they are an unavoidable fact of life when walking out and about whereas cigarettes are forced on a baby selfishly as they are avoidable.

MrsDeVere Fri 22-Mar-13 17:36:20

i certainly do not think children should be removed from their parents.
I don't think smokers are evil
Smoking is legal

But there is NO argument for smoking round children. There just isn't.

I have done it. I probably will do it again on the very odd occasion. Last time I did it was on what would have been my DD's 21st birthday.

So I am not saying anyone who does it is a nasty fucker.

But surely, even the most hardened of smokers don't think its right to do it?

Really? Come on.

I can understand people being defensive because they feel attacked. That is natural.
It isn't nice when something you do is so severely judged.

But when you do it do you not think 'I know I shouldn't be doing this really'

Because I don't think smoker = thick.

I was walking down the street last week and several people were smoking in front of me (different occasions)

It was horrible, the smoke was blowing right in my face.

I wouldn't have noticed that a few years back, I certainly do not remember ever getting annoyed about it.

It must be because I am not used to it now so the smell and sensation feels vile.

I don't think the proposal that smokers children go into care is a majority view!

No, moaning on here about it, probably won't make a difference im not deluding myself. I doubt anyone smoking with their baby in the open air is going to think, my poor baby, or poor everybody who comes near, I'm really spoiling this park/street/cafe wherever. That's how it is, we have to tolerate it and shut up about it don't we, because artificial sweetener is bad too.

MrsDeVere Fri 22-Mar-13 17:39:01

I am sorry to bang on lying but I don't think it is righteous judginess. I don't agree with the 'vile, common, thick idiots' (apart from those fuckers smoking underneath my DD's ward) type comments.

But it is just fact isn't it?

Smoking is dangerous, it kills millions of people every year and children are particularly vulnerable.

Its not relevant that there are other things that kill people and are also bad for children really.

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 17:41:13

Its not just a single cigarette though is it? Its one that they have visibly seen the person smoking but it could be one of many through out the day that the baby is subjected to without choice. It all adds up.

Well, it could be. But it could just as easily not be, Sneezing.

There are many toxins that parents knowingly expose their children to which they could avoid. Why are people only up in arms about this single issue?

Ashoething Fri 22-Mar-13 17:45:22

Because its a choice you make to smoke!-we have no choice in being exposed to other toxins. You are choosing to deliberately expose YOUR child to something that harms them. Eurgh.

Stop trying to justify your selfish behaviour. If women were clustered outside maternity hospitals shooting up heroin would you all be going oh well they cant help it? would you fuck as like.

SneezingwakestheJesus Fri 22-Mar-13 17:47:37

That's true that it could be just that one. If so, why do it all over the baby? Why bother at all? I just find it unlikely.

I think people are so bothered about this issue compared to other toxins because there is literally no reason to smoke at all. It doesn't benefit anybody in any way. Someone mentioned toxins in disposable nappies etc but even they have some sort of reason or purpose that someone could argue balance out the exposure to toxins. Cigarettes have no reason or purpose to outweight the exposure to toxins at all.

Seriously, you can't see the difference between exposing your kid to a carton of ribena light and exposing your kids to smoke?

In the kids playground in the park near us, the parents smoke, making us all cough and smell. Its gross and so unnecessary. Still my kids used disposable nappies so I can't complain?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Fri 22-Mar-13 17:48:58

MrsDeVere... I don't disagree with you at all. I very much agreed with your posts on this thread and honestly, I don't think you're 'judgy'; I'd say you have more call to be than many. I would have been hopping mad to have smokers beneath my child's hospital window too. How could you not? I think that hospitals really need to tackle the problem of smokers on the grounds, keeping smoke away.

Smoking is incredibly dangerous and when I think about my trips to the cinema as a young child in the Seventies, seeing the smog and being covered in ash from my mum, I'm glad that many smokers are giving it up.

Like you, I don't understand how smokers start now-a-days (I sound so old!)... but they do and it's less tolerated than it was back in the day. I'm an ex-smoker myself, didn't find it hard to stop but still took 20 years to do it.

I don't have much time for the smug and there are quite a few all over AIBU who think that their disgust has any impact on anybody else. The only reaction I could imagine is a well-aimed punch.

SneezingwakestheJesus Fri 22-Mar-13 17:50:05

I don't think anyone here believes their "disgust" will make anyone change their behaviour or have an impact on anyone who smokes. If someone can't stop smoking for their own child's health, I doubt they would care about some random on the Internet's point of view.

KC225 Fri 22-Mar-13 17:52:11

I once saw a young Dad stripped to the waist with his daughter (around 18 months\) on his shoulders - 'how sweet' I thought as she was giggling away and loving it, just behind him was the mum pushing the buggy and in the buggy were two crates of lager. Made my day but not in a bad way - just funny

Ashoething Fri 22-Mar-13 17:54:31

When I had cancer I begged my mum to please give up. She said she had but actually was sneeking away at every available opportunity because she couldnt cope with the stresshmm

My sister smoked when she was pregnant-depite previously having a miscarriage and having been ttc for a couple of years. She used to pretend to her dp that she was "only" having 10 a day but actually was buying 2 packs of 10 and smoking them before he got home.

The first thing I told her when she had her dc was that if I ever saw her smoking around her child I would happily strangle her. She smokes because she wants to stay a size 8-thats apparently more important than her dcs health.

FarBetterNow Fri 22-Mar-13 17:58:51

Personally, I think it is as bad to give children Ribena Light every day as it is to wheel a push chair whilst smoking.

I would never give a child strawberries that are non-organic, as they will have been sprayed twice a day with poison.
Just because you cannot see the poison and cannot smell it it is easier to ignore the fact that it is there.
If the strawberries had 'Poison' written on them people might think about it a bit more.

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 18:02:37

Of course we can avoid many toxins. We just choose not to. We choose not to demonise them.

Imagine a few decades hence. People will probably look back in absolute horror at the things we exposed our children to, simply for our own convenience.

Once again, I'm not advocating smoking. I have no dog in this hunt. I just find the hysterical reactions to a tiny snapshot of a person's life OTT.

PrincessFiorimonde Fri 22-Mar-13 18:03:10

I'm going to hoik up my judgey pants so high they will probably strangle me, but I hate it when I see this.

Disclaimer: I'm a smoker.

SW1XMother Fri 22-Mar-13 18:06:27

I have the odd fag but never around my children, especially not when pushing a pram. It is just wrong and I judge people who do it. However I lived a long time in Paris and Brussels and it is just common there for people to smoke inside the car, while pushing the buggy or around children in general.

KitchenandJumble Fri 22-Mar-13 18:07:28

This thread is moving too fast. My last post was to Ashoething. And I assume it was rhetorical to state "You are choosing to deliberately expose YOUR child to something that harms them," not addressed to me personally. As I've stated repeatedly in this thread, I don't smoke and I never have.

Ragwort Fri 22-Mar-13 18:07:30

I would never give a child strawberries that are non-organic hmm - words fail me .............

Are you now going to say that children who are given non-organic strawberries should be taken into care?

I can't tear myself away from Mumsnet, you never get this level of entertaining discussion in real life grin.

Far better, giving ribena light to our kids only affects our own kids. Smoking in the street affects everyone in the street.

I wonder if the defenders are fortunate enough to live in some middle class enclave where smoking is rather exotic. Really, otherwise, how can you compare going to a smoke filled playground with giving your kids non organic grapes?

I mean strawberries - what kind of low life scum would give their kids non organic grapes?!! (joke)

ouryve Fri 22-Mar-13 18:29:11

OK, people insisting that exposing their children to smoke is no worse than exposing them to car fumes when you take them out, consider the fact that your children are exposed to both. So as well as breathing in pollution like every other child is to varying degrees, your child is breathing your smoke in on top of that

MrsDeVere Fri 22-Mar-13 19:18:50

lying I had forgotten about cinemas! They used to have a non smoking bit though. Because sitting three seats away from someone puffing away made you somehow impervious to their smoke grin

You just reminded me of another incident at the other hospital DD used to be treated at.

We were in her room, she was very, very poorly with some awful reaction to the chemo. I could smell smoke but couldnt work out where it was coming from.
I eventually climbed up and stuck my head out of the window to discover a Sister (nurse, not nun) smoking directly under the window shock

I have to admit I went bonkers, really OTT at her blush. I was just so angry and scared and utterly incredulous that a nurse would smoke underneath the ground floor window of a children's side ward.

I think one of the major changes is how we now view the residue of smoking. Its not just when someone is smoking now is it? Its the stuff that is left on their hands and clothes. That is now proved to be dangerous (although I am not sure how dangerous).

<puts hand up> I do what Thurlow does - I have a 'smoking jacket' (I'm a classy lady doncha know?), wash my hands and brush my teeth after having one if I have one during the day while baby is awake. I certainly don't tip fag ash on his head or smoke inside etc.

everlong Fri 22-Mar-13 19:22:35

I'm not surprised you went ape shit mrsD. So insensitive and selfish to smoke near a children's ward. I would have lost it.

For those that are saying they don't understand why people smoke...there has been some studies showing that people self-medicate their depression (and other disorders) by smoking. So that may explain some smoker's behaviour.

I am not justifying my need to smoke at all....I just know that smoking was the one thing I could do by myself to give me some 'head-space' to think in when I was suffering from depression and psychosis.

GogoGobo Fri 22-Mar-13 19:31:43

YAnbu - judgey pants around my throat here but it looks vile and is immoral. Blow your poison smoke somewhere else! Just had to spend 6 months biting my tongue whilst a chavvy colleague smoked and drank her way through her pregnancy, gave birth to her seriously low-weight baby and now she writes a fucking parenting blog in between lighting up and watching Jezza Kyle. She epitomises a smoking parent for me.

MrsHoarder Fri 22-Mar-13 19:33:13

I agree to an extent, but if you feel you need a fag then its better to have it outside where most of the smoke blows away. If there is a young child then that child had to coffee with you for safety so obviously goes in the buggy.

lovesherdogstoomuch Fri 22-Mar-13 19:39:46

getting annoyed by parents/grandparents/carers texting or chatting on their phones when with their children at the swings? our house overlooks the local park and i see it a lot when i glance out the window. you're at the park, spending time with your kids. put your phone away!

lovesherdogstoomuch Fri 22-Mar-13 19:40:30

ooooo sorry i've posted this onto an existing thread. sorry OP.

BegoniaBampot Fri 22-Mar-13 19:43:11

Can I judge then as I don't smoke, don't give my kids Ribena light, live in the country and wash their non organic strawberries?

But seriously, I am worried about the effect the huge amount of passive smoking I was exposed to over the years has had on my health, especially as my family seems predisposed to cancer. Me and my sister joke that we need to make the most of the 22 years or so we have left.

PrincessFiorimonde Fri 22-Mar-13 20:20:00

I admit to making the cardinal MN sin of not reading the whole thread. But I have read the first part of it. Please, please, please do not say that this behaviour is 'common'. Unless, of course, you mean 'common' in the sense of 'usual'.

It's not a nice thing to do, granted (and I did post earlier that I abhor the practice). But calling this (or any) behaviour 'common' just makes me want to scream.

Frogman Sat 23-Mar-13 00:26:13

Princess - I actually mean it's common as in vulgar.

RubyGates Sat 23-Mar-13 08:49:36

" getting annoyed by parents/grandparents/carers texting or chatting on their phones when with their children at the swings? our house overlooks the local park and i see it a lot when i glance out the window. you're at the park, spending time with your kids. put your phone away! "

Actually, you'll see me reading or knitting while DS2 does his thing at the playground. I'll be taking a flask of coffee and spending half-an-hour out of the whole day sometimes when he really doesn't need me to join in or keep up with his constant flow of chatter. I keep a weather eye on his shennanigans and relax for a few well deserved minutes.

Perhaps this is the only time that other parents have a quiet 10 minutes to deal with important phone calls? It would certainly be the only time I could be sure of not being interrrupted on the phone.

HerrenaHarridan Sat 23-Mar-13 09:22:52

Common as on vulgar, better use vulgar then otherwise you end up sounding like a snob knob

yellowhousewithareddoor Sun 24-Mar-13 03:27:02

Me too ruby. I play /chat /listen to my children all day. Going to the park means I might push her on the swings but apart from that she's happy as Larry to run around (in fact don't they get to an age where they'd rather play with other children than mum anyway at the park?)

I will use that time to text or read kindle on phone or maybe even mumsnet! No idea others could be so judgy about that! When pregnant I remember nearly a whole summer I spent near a sand play area, half lying down, with a book, while my older one played right close to me. I'm a very hands on mum overall but with a husband away and constant exhaustion the park zip the place that I could read /text etc as she was getting 99 % of my attention at other times.

Thurlow Sun 24-Mar-13 07:30:13

There was a thread a few weeks back where someone said how horrible it was to see babies in pushchairs when their parents had headphones on. Apparently it left the baby looking "slumped and glassy".

I think that post might have been the exact moment I realised that someone on MN will judge you for every single thing you do in your life grin

threesypeesy Sun 24-Mar-13 07:38:16

YANBU. Both myself and dh cringe when we see this it's vile!!!

it makes people look common as muck,and uneducated of the dangers of passive smoking

It always makes me wonder if they smoked during pregnancy major cringe, or if not why did they start again surely the air theory child breaths is more important

Oh and smokers stink!! Their breath makes me feel sick.

yellowhousewithareddoor Sun 24-Mar-13 09:54:45

Me too ruby. I play /chat /listen to my children all day. Going to the park means I might push her on the swings but apart from that she's happy as Larry to run around (in fact don't they get to an age where they'd rather play with other children than mum anyway at the park?)

I will use that time to text or read kindle on phone or maybe even mumsnet! No idea others could be so judgy about that! When pregnant I remember nearly a whole summer I spent near a sand play area, half lying down, with a book, while my older one played right close to me. I'm a very hands on mum overall but with a husband away and constant exhaustion the park zip the place that I could read /text etc as she was getting 99 % of my attention at other times.

Wallison Sun 24-Mar-13 20:52:20

Actually, listening to headphones when you're with your kid is a bit crap. You wouldn't do it if you were walking down the street with your husband or one of your mates, would you?

MrsDeVere Sun 24-Mar-13 20:59:33

I admit I don't like the headphones thing. I just think its really rude.
I will do it if the baby is asleep though. It would be hard to tell if you saw someone doing it, pushing a pram with a baby, if the baby was asleep or not.
My OH once put his earphones in (looooong time ago), I cannot describe the rage it gave me hmm

Thurlow Sun 24-Mar-13 21:22:03

See, that's what I mean about everyone having different opinions grin

I'll put them in if I'm walking to the shops. Front-facing pushchair with a baby who doesn't talk yet and who loves watching the world go by. I think she's probably glad of the break from me nattering on! Wouldn't be great if the kids are talking, I agree. That would be the same as putting your headphones in while walking with your oh!

scottishmummy Sun 24-Mar-13 21:24:52

Use headphones if baby asleep,listen to pod casts,news,music

BegoniaBampot Sun 24-Mar-13 21:34:22

Headphones. - debatable. On your own or baby asleep - well. My OH wears them in the house - drives me crazy as he ends up shutting out me (understandable) and the kids. Just makes it seem like he is not always part of the family - so times just call him the lodger.

lovesherdogstoomuch Sun 24-Mar-13 21:58:46

yeh i have been a bit judgy ther. sorry mners. didn't mean to be. this is why this forum is great. puts the other point of view across. but. i can't help but see people shut away on phones/technology etc. i am old-fashioned, but not that old really.

MrsDeVere Sun 24-Mar-13 23:23:35

My DS1 used to wear them at home despite me and his dad constantly reminding him of the house rules (for all of us).
Apart from the rudeness it makes it really hard to communicate!

Stroppy little bleeder hmm. Fortunately he has grown out of that phase and is very nearly human again.

DS2 wears them but I bought him ones that cannot go above a certain volume and he has ASD so needs a bit of time out from the world sometimes

<goes right off topic>

candyandyoga Sun 24-Mar-13 23:35:18

I judge this. Totally fucking disgusting.

cloudy99 Mon 25-Mar-13 00:05:58

I so agree with you op. I remember when I was feeling low whilst trying to concieve seeing people smoking and thinking how unfair it was. They were blessed with a child but were exposing the poor child to toxins.

somedayma Mon 25-Mar-13 01:39:47

this will be the first post in 18 months here that I've hidden. a lot of you on here are overly dramatic snobbish judgemental cunts. absolutely disgusting. scum? common? Jeremy Kyle watchers? Do you know how ridiculously hysterical and fucking STUPID you sound?

I say this as a non smoker

MrsDeVere Mon 25-Mar-13 08:24:39

Yes, if you are going to over react in such a ridiculous way its probably best you hide the thread

lemuzzy Mon 25-Mar-13 09:51:16

What I find surprising is that while everyone rightly agrees smoking while pushing a pram is wrong on mumsnet, you also have threads where people are told its wrong to judge pregnant women for smoking.

I don't get that. Smoking while pregnant is absolutely vile, and even worse than smoking around children. How could it ever be ok?

hairtearing Mon 25-Mar-13 14:29:37

I've posted before but I'll post again,

I think the vitriol towards smokers is a bit OTT, I quit for years and then after a very traumatic pregnancy/birth having literally no time to recover from childbirth thrown straight back into full SAHM mode and my eldest kicking and me having to wrestle with a big child, days after giving birth sent me back, ..

However I don't make myself fag breaks during the day with the kids, I don't smoke more than like a few times a day, and If I'm with a buggy I park it a few feet in sight away from me whilst child is quiet.
I get a few hmm but I'd rather than then puffing into a pram.

were not all jeremy kyle fodder.

MrsDeVere Mon 25-Mar-13 14:52:39

This thread is not about mothers who smoke hair.
It is about parents who smoke whilst pushing a buggy.

I do not agree with some of the OTT comments either.

But nothing is going to make me say 'awww go on then' either.

Everyone knows it is unacceptable to subject a child to cigarette smoke. People who do it, do it know it is wrong.

But I don't get all freaky over it. The majority of us do things that we know we shouldn't.

People killing themselves by smoking ^ genuinely ^ makes me feel sad.
Not in a patronising, head tilting way either.

I just wish everybody would stop it (and I smoke the occasional fag when drinking so I am not exactly halo polishing here!)

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 25-Mar-13 16:51:29

Yanbu. It is horrible to see and I feel pity and sadness for the poor children forced to inhale the vile carcinogens.

twinklestar2 Mon 25-Mar-13 20:41:44

It's unacceptable to smoke around a child. End of.

hairtearing Wed 27-Mar-13 09:40:24

It did being to turn into a smoking bunfight some posts anyway.

hairtearing Wed 27-Mar-13 09:40:34

*begin

auforfoulkesake Wed 27-Mar-13 09:43:21

I don't see anything wrong with smoking while pushing a pram and think those of you that do are being ott and absolutely precious.
typical mumsnet

I remember seeing a bloke on the beach walking yards away from baby. to have a smoke . just ott and stupidly middle class.

hairtearing Wed 27-Mar-13 09:49:53

I couldn't be further from middle class and I stand like a foot away from the buggy I need one.

would you not be hmm seeing someone puffing a fag into a rear facing pram? shock

auforfoulkesake Wed 27-Mar-13 09:55:35

you are outdoors.
I wouldn't do it in the car, in the house,
but outdoors is fine.
what about other pollutants.

I know I am fighting a losing battle with some people though.

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