To ask my DF for an 'advance' on my 'inheritance'

(100 Posts)
Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 06:28:14

My DM died a year ago and since then my DF and me have finally begun to have a father/daughter relationship, free from the jealousy of my DM.

He helped me through a horrible divorce, lending me the money to fund a sol whilst I was waiting for the family home to be sold. When it did, I paid him back every penny - I wanted to, he accepted it.

I am renting a house which I can just about afford but I know I could live more cheaply if I buy and I do have a good deposit to put down on somewhere. But I live in a very expensive part of the country (expensive because it's trendy rather than it being particularly beautiful or cosmopolitan IYSWIM). I am in my early 50's and work full time so a mortgage will be harder to come by but I can do it.

DF is always asking if there's anything he can do to make things easier/better. I say no, I'll sort it, but the truth is I don't think I can afford a decentish home unless I ask DF for some financial help. How much I don't know, but maybe £15,00 max. He's not wealthy by any means but he and my DM were savers and he "has a lot put by" that is willed to me.

Am I a grasping DD to go to him and ask him for help? I feel like I am and I'm aware that my DM's 'legacy' is that I felt like I didn't deserve anything.

Your thoughts would be really helpful. Thank you.

CabbageLeaves Thu 21-Mar-13 06:31:53

What about offering him part ownership? All legally agreed and apportioned. That's a way to start the conversation.

If you were my child I'd want to help but might find that less 'grasping' ?

pansyflimflam Thu 21-Mar-13 06:33:09

No I wouldn't. I think it is rude, sorry

EmmaBemma Thu 21-Mar-13 06:33:42

Ugh. Tough one. I personally couldn't bear to ask my parents this but I think my husband could ask his dad without fear of feeling, or looking, like a grasping mercenary type. Only you know the relationship you have with your dad well enough to have an idea whether this would go down OK. For what it's worth, I don't see that there's anything wrong in principle with asking.

ZillionChocolate Thu 21-Mar-13 06:35:13

I thought yabu from the title but next time he asks can he do anything, why don't you say "not really dad, I manage day to day, the only thing I can't do is buy my own house but that would require £15,000 so I'm resigned to continuing to rent"?

raspberryroop Thu 21-Mar-13 06:36:15

Tell him the situation and say it would help you BUT that you really do understand that if he's uncomfortable with it will be no problem. Only do it though IF it REALLY is no problem to you.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 06:37:57

Crikey, that was quick. Thank you.

I've never asked for help before, always been independent, had to be. But yes, I feel like it is 'grasping' and that's why your views are so helpful. If the weight of objective opinion is IABU then I won't ask.

Indith Thu 21-Mar-13 06:41:22

I wouldn't ask for it as an advance on inheritance but I would ask for help yes. He keeps offering, just talk about it with him. Hell my parents always want to help me when they can and although pride makes me want to do it alone I do accept because I know that no matter how old my children I will always want to help them rather than see them struggle.

Astelia Thu 21-Mar-13 06:41:50

Another vote for saying something next time he offers. As a parent I would want to know if there was something my DCs needed as perhaps I could help. Have you any siblings who would be upset by this though? Having read how wills and inheritance can split families, I would always take care to treat my DCs the same, even if their needs were different.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Thu 21-Mar-13 06:42:40

Well, there is no inheritance while the person is alive. At that point, it is just 'their money'.

That said - he's your dad. And it really sounds like he wants to help you. It doesn't hurt to ask him to help you. He has the choice to say no. make it clear that you know it is a HUGE favour to ask and you have no problem at all if he chooses to say no, you will understand completely.

It is wrong to believe that your parents money somehow belongs to you, that's true. But it doesn't actually read like that's your perspective, not truly.

It is not wrong to ask your family for help. As long as it is just asked, with no belief that you have the right to their money.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 06:43:36

So I've not done myself any favours in the thread title, I can see that. It would be help I'd be asking for, not "Oh Dad, can you sub me some of what's coming my way…."

Sorry folks, badly worded thread title. It's not the way it looks. blush

AuntieStella Thu 21-Mar-13 06:43:48

Not joint ownership, unless you are happy with the tax implications.

Might it be worth having a general conversation about how you wish you were in a position to buy? Then if he is at all encouraging, you can say how much you would need to save up. Then, if still encouraging, ask him.

But make sure it's easy for him to say no.

Rather than ask for it as an" advance" why not approach him for a "loan" given that you had a business like arrangement for previous help?

Treat it like he is the bank you are a customer & work out repayments etc then there should be no need for embarrassment.

He can always say no!

Indith Thu 21-Mar-13 06:44:22

Incidently when dad helped me out a couple of years ago my gran was not well, he knew she would die sooner rather than later so he gave us some money as an advance from inheritance from her (all legal, done through deed of arrangement) so when she passed my sister got the full amount, I got mine minus the money dad gave me.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 06:45:51

No there are no sibs.

CabbageLeaves Thu 21-Mar-13 06:48:29

My parents have done what Indiths have. Small amounts but helped my sibling. It's their money. Their choice. Doesn't bother me what they do with it. I hope they keep enough to have for their own care should they need it

MrsLouisTheroux Thu 21-Mar-13 06:51:07

I would let him know you're struggling. Tell him the facts and your fears and concerns. He will then be able to decide for himself if he can help financially. Trendy areas are expensive - what a waste if its not particularly nice. Can you look for somewhere nice where you are not paying a premium for living in a certain postcode?

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 06:51:09

I'd thought about a joint ownership thing, but it was the tax implications which put me off. Plus he intends to put me on the title deeds of his home in nearish future (for his own reasons).

Numberlock Thu 21-Mar-13 06:55:24

However much he has put by in savings, be mindful if potential care costs in the future. My mum also had 'a lot put by' which is now dwindling towards nothing after 4 years in residential care. So I would have an open discussion with him about the whole area of finances, power of attorney etc.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 06:56:30

I don't feel I can honestly ask for a loan - I'd be asking for help to afford to buy.

My other option is to borrow more than I want to, however, that could put me back to the position I was in when I needed to sell the family home.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 07:01:00

Numberlock one of the things I admire about my DF is his ability to plan ahead far, far into the future.

Having said that, he is as vulnerable as the rest of us if the law changes or something unforeseen happens which changes everything.

What's coming across loud and clear is I need to have a conversation with him about this. This is something we're still getting to grips with.

AuntieStella Thu 21-Mar-13 07:07:20

Has he been saving to pay for a care home of his choice?
And possibly being able to pay for that so you get the house later (is putting you on the deeds an attempt to avoid forced sale?)

The money is still his; you have to make sure it's easy for him to say 'no'

MoYerBoat Thu 21-Mar-13 07:08:21

He's your dad, just tell him the situation and let him know how he can help if he wants to.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 07:13:28

Auntie Yes. The house is left to my DC's in his will, i think. I will be on deeds.

I have no other involvement in his estate. DF's sol is appointed executor.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 07:18:41

And yes, it will be easy for him to say no. I'm honest but I just don't like asking and I hate talking about money - it's not something we ever did in my family.

AngryFeet Thu 21-Mar-13 07:24:34

If he has money saved anyway maybe look at Lloyds tsb lend a hand or barclays springboard mortgages. Might be a more appealing prospect to him since he will get his money back plus interest.

Pilgit Thu 21-Mar-13 07:25:36

Worth noting that for your DF's estate there are tax advantages to making a gift now. If the gift is 7+ years old it is free from his estate for inheritance tax purposes, so if you are pretty sure he will live longer than 7 years it will reduce that tax liability on his estate. Worth double checking to make sure that is current, however when we were getting on the housing ladder my DM lent us the deposit. We tried to give it back a number of times, including when we recently moved, but as it's more than 7 years old she has said to keep it to reduce the liability upon her death. This is on the proviso that I take less when she does die. We still view it as a loan and should she ever need it back we would arrange it in a heartbeat.

MintVelvet1937 Thu 21-Mar-13 07:27:01

yabu utterly completely and totally.

ask him for a loan. a gift. whatever. but an inheritance?

It boggles the mind that you would even allow such a thought to cross your mind, let alone post about it.

WynkenBlynkenandNod Thu 21-Mar-13 07:32:57

I'm guessing your Dad is in his 70's? I'd be a bit nervous taking any money from him at the point in life. I rang round Nursing Homes yesterday and they are the best part of 50k a year here so a lump sum can soon vanish and if assets run out Social Services come in and can go back through his financial affairs over the years. Apparently it's a misperception that they go back 7 years, supposedly they can go back further. Certain things can be regarded as Deprivation of Assets.

I'm being very paranoid about something that will probably never happen but now faced with finding care in the future I'm really glad I've never had any money from her as one less thing to worry about in a horribly stressful situation.

christinarossetti Thu 21-Mar-13 07:32:59

OP puts 'inheritance' in quotes - she's aware that her df intends her to have this money in the future. It's an 'advance inheritance' she's talking about - I don't see why this would boggle anyone's mind.

OP, I can appreciate that it's difficult to talk about money but it would be fair enough to put it in the way suggested above if your df asks how he could help again and go from there.

You sound very thoughtful and considerable to me. How lovely to have a father who cares about you like yours does and to develop your relationship.

janey68 Thu 21-Mar-13 07:44:04

A lot of people seem to assume that when a person gets to 70, is retired and mortgage paid off, they have loads of spare dosh sloshing about. Tbh I think there are very few people who could really just cough up 15k easily. The father still has bills to pay, he has no doubt saved money for any unexpected things which may crop up in his life, or dare I say it he may even want to treat himself now and then. Just because someone has assets and may have a significant sum to leave after their death in no way equates to having spare money in the here and now.

As the father keeps bringing the subject up, I guess the OP could open a general talk about house deposits, but no way would I ask for a 15k advance... I think once amounts are mentioned, he isn't going to be able to get the sum out of his head and could find it hard to say no easily.

He keeps asking how to help - how about saying you'd like a listening ear about your finances. Talk to him about the question of buying and tell him you do have money for a deposit so it's clear you could do this on your own. If he wants to offer you money, he will.

My hunch is he keeps asking you because he wants to help you.

CloudsAndTrees Thu 21-Mar-13 07:48:59

It depends how much money he has saved. If you are asking for nearly everything he's got, then it would be unreasonable. But if not, I don't see the problem. You will make it easy for him to say no, presumably you will be around to help him with things he needs as he gets older.

Couldn't you just have the conversation about wanting to buy but being unable to? He might offer if he knows the position you're in.

cozietoesie Thu 21-Mar-13 07:57:18

I'd ask without hesitation but I'd put it in the first instance as a request for a loan. You said that he's got money 'put by' and he'll likely be getting derisory interest on it - so offer to match that interest because if 'all' you need is £15k it will be a whole lot cheaper all round to buy on that basis. Offer to do it formally if you like - and who knows what he might say on terms if he agrees. They could be more generous than you propose.

Our family have had varying degrees of savings over the years and I and my parents did this many times - they lent to me when I was in trouble, I lent to them when they were in straits...... It was done with interest (pennies) payable so everyone was real relaxed about it.

ajandjjmum Thu 21-Mar-13 07:59:07

OP - I would ask your Dad if you can use him as a sounding board about what it would be best to do. Do you stretch yourself with a mortgage or carry on renting. Have some figures to look through. If he wants to help financially he will offer, if not, you've got the advice of someone who cares about what's best for you anyway.

firesidechat Thu 21-Mar-13 08:06:14

Personally I wouldn't ask for help, either as a loan or as some sort of advance on an inheritance that may not exist. You say he isn't wealthy and he may well want his money for his own needs.

There is also something called "deprivation of assets" to be aware of. If he starts giving away large sums of money in later years, HMRC may treat him as still having that money when assessing care needs. I'm not sure that putting you on the deeds will help much either. HMRC are much more canny about any plans to avoid selling the home to pay for care. Apologies if I've misunderstood his reasons for doing this.

I know that you're not asking about this, but having a solicitor as executer may be very expensive and not really necessary if the estate is quite simple.

Could you possibly find a less trendy area to buy in?

Gingerandcocoa Thu 21-Mar-13 08:07:25

I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask him for financial help. He's your father and, if you're 50, I imagine he's elderly now. I think he would probably be very happy to be able to help you, and if he's not, then he will tell you I suppose.

cozietoesie Thu 21-Mar-13 08:11:04

And a good thing about your situation is that he's already lent you money (several thousand I would guess?) and you paid him back. It's not a new part of the relationship.

I wouldn't be shy about it. Families help each other out and this would just be one of those times.

smile

firesidechat Thu 21-Mar-13 08:13:50

The 7 year rule does apply to gifts ie if your father lives for another 7 years or the estate is below the inheritance tax threshold then no inheritance tax is payable on that amount.

However deprivation of assets is definitely something to think about. If you give away sums of money or sign over property, then HMRC may still take those amounts or cost of house into account when assessing how much help your father can get with his care needs. Could get messy.

firesidechat Thu 21-Mar-13 08:14:47

Also for deprivation of assets they can go back much further than 7 years.

eggso Thu 21-Mar-13 08:15:44

We're in a similar situation.renting is extortionate. My grandparents recently died, leaving a £300,000 house to my dad. My parents have both bought new cars and a £15,000 kitchen. I asked them if we could borrow a bit for a deposit and they said they think we should rent longer.... Really close to my parents and no idea why they won't help!

cozietoesie Thu 21-Mar-13 08:22:34

In my experience, some older people can get 'anxious' eggso. They like to have the good feeling of a nest egg even if it turns out they never use it - even )in some cases) putting cash money away in places in the house for a security blanket. Yours were maybe just more anxious than others.

HintofBream Thu 21-Mar-13 08:24:04

We have given quite substantial sums to each of our two sons for house buying/extending purposes. We have passed the 7 year rule for quite a lot of it, and am now hoping to stay breathing for another few years for the rest. Your dad will probably be delighted to help you out, just as we are with our sons. That is what famlies are for.

megandraper Thu 21-Mar-13 08:25:46

I would maybe follow the advice of the poster who said let your father know the situation without actually asking him for that sum of money. It might hurt his feelings if the amount you need is more than he has available to give you IYSWIM.

Next time he asks, you could say something along the lines of 'The one thing I'm really working on at the moment, dad, is working towards buying somewhere. I've managed to save £x, and I have another £x to go. If you're able to help me a bit towards that some time, then that would be wonderful.'

I wouldn't go with the idea of the person who suggested offering him part-ownership, because when, sadly, he passes away, you may be left with taxes to pay on his share, and that might put your house in jeopardy.

For your info, if he gives you a gift of more than a set amount (about £3.5k I think) then that is also subject to inheritance tax, but if he lives for 7 or more years after the gift, then there is no tax to pay. Obviously his estate may be below the inheritance tax threshold anyway. But it's important to know about these things, so that you don't get placed in the awful position of needing to sell your house to pay the tax.

cozietoesie Thu 21-Mar-13 08:28:49

bedhopper

If the OP's DF has an estate which is worth more than the inheritance tax threshold, then the estate would have plenty of funds to pay said tax. The OP is only talking about £15k here - there's no question of having to sell her own house.

Wishiwasanheiress Thu 21-Mar-13 08:33:33

Just randomly saying I need 15k for a house is bu, saying u could do with help on stamp duty or something is tangible and he can then say I can afford to give u 5 or something. I wouldn't put a figure on it. U cannot know what he can actually afford. If he gives u 15 but then goes in a care home he might need that money to afford his life.

He will want to help u but u need to let him say what that is. U need to talk. Openly. And finally, and this is hard to say, u might need to think of a different size house or area. Have to cut ur cloth so to speak.

Sory don't mean to be rude. Am paddling same boat at the moment.... sad

Ragwort Thu 21-Mar-13 08:42:35

It does sound as though he wants to help and if you can discuss it carefully, without giving the impression of any 'expectations' then I think that would be the way to go.

Without knowing his exact position it is difficult to know whether he is a position to 'give' you £15K or not. But he may be very happy to do so but doesn't want to offer it to you for fear of offending you?

I am in the fortunate position of having very generous parents who are very comfortably off and have recently given my siblings and I a gift of £10k each. Interestingly due to 'cash flow' issues I have since been able to make them a short term loan (repaid with a 25% bonus grin) of £2k. But it helps that we are open, honest and appreciative towards each other regarding financial issues. Unlike one of my siblings who contunies to make massive hints about getting more and more money.

I do appreciate how very sensitive an area it is.

valiumredhead Thu 21-Mar-13 08:44:42

It makes much more sense for him to give you the money now. YANBU

From your relationship, it sounds completely fine and he would be open to the conversation. People often like to be helpful....

We just did something very similar with my MIL for a substantial amount to help with house renovation and she was thrilled to do it. her will etc has been revised to reflect it as my DH has sibs.

HintofBream Thu 21-Mar-13 08:49:11

Bedhopper, I believe that you can give away up to £3,500 per year with no tax implications, and that is not affected by the 7 year rule. The only proviso is that you can prove you can afford it if enquiries are made.

Cricrichan Thu 21-Mar-13 08:51:41

If he's offered and you need it, I don't see the problem.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 08:57:19

Mintvelvet I am sorry my wording offends you so much, but it shows no other failing of mine than I find it really, really hard to talk about money as it was always so 'not done' and the reason I accepted help (yes thousands to get out of my marriage) before was because he wanted to protect me when I was vulnerable. You're right. To even think of such a thing is wrong, if I was only looking at him as some kind of banking facility. But I'm not.

I only know his financial situation now because he is talking to me as an adult and he can't talk with my DM. I'd rather forget the whole thing than have a single person think I'd gone beyond the pale.

I am taking time to read the other posters who know more about the law than I do. Thank you.

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 09:03:35

The other thing I want to say is that this is ONLY what I would ask for so that I can , eventually, do the same for my own DC's.

valiumredhead Thu 21-Mar-13 09:05:15

Not sure what is pissing mint off so much as a finanacial advisor would advice your dad to 'gift' as much money as he can!

HintofBream Thu 21-Mar-13 09:09:17

Valium I was wondering exactly the same about mint's strange attitude.

valiumredhead Thu 21-Mar-13 09:09:44

advise I mean

Jins Thu 21-Mar-13 09:28:05

HintofBream you can gift up to £3000 in any one tax year with no checks made.

You can, I believe, make gifts above that figure from surplus income which needs to be backed up with documentation or declaration in case of investigation.

I agree that any financial advisor would recommend giving away as much as possible in these circumstances

i would approach it in a different way. present him with your problem - say that as he is so good with financial matters what would he do in your situation?

if it's a matter of 15k i'd look for a smaller place that i could afford tbh. or perhaps find something a bit further out.

i'm not sure i'd ask him for help. if he offered i'd still find it difficult.

WynkenBlynkenandNod Thu 21-Mar-13 09:35:15

I think with deprivation of assets it's about showing a change in previous spending habits with the express intention of lowering the amount of assets available to pay for care. Also have a feeling there's something about reasonable belief that care will be required.

So if your father has any existing health problems then it would be wise to be careful and seek proper legal advice as they can go back as far as they like with deprivation of assets. It's very unlikely and you'd need to be very unlucky but just something I bear in mind. I could be totally wrong but just reading a couple of stories on the Alzheimer's boards it's made me very cautious. I get the impression it's a bit of a grey area that people don't realise before it hits them.

I agree it sounds as if your Dad wants to help and asking for a loan is the way forward.

TroublesomeEx Thu 21-Mar-13 09:43:47

scotty only you know your dad and how he is likely to respond to an outright request.

I know that some families/people don't talk about inheritances/death at all and find it callous and insensitive to do so. Others, on the other hand, are quite open and matter of fact about it. So you're going to get very different responses from people at either end of these extreme's alone.

Some people don't like to be thought of as a posthumous cash cow, and others would rather help their families/children whilst they're are still alive to see them enjoy the money they would receive after their death anyway.

Some people have no intention of there being any money left over to give to the children, others make providing for their families after their death a priority.

So after all that, if he is asking you now if there's anything he can do to make your life easier/better so he is clearly thinking about your wellbeing and it sounds as though he'd like to help you in some way. You paid back a previous loan willingly so he knows that you're not 'money grabbing' or feel that he has a responsibility to bank roll you.

In fact, this situation may well be exactly what he is getting at but doesn't want to offend you by offering you money straight out, rather than just letting you know he'd be willing/able to help you.

You're in your 50s. You've had a loan from him once which you repaid. It hardly sounds like you've spent your life getting into trouble and expecting daddy to bail you out.

In your situation, I would discuss it with him as open and honestly as possible.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 21-Mar-13 09:50:16

If I had the money and my ds needed it I would give it to him in a heartbeat.
Don't we all want to help our kids, however old they are?
Unfortunately I have nothing to leave so ds will just have to work hard.sadsmile

cantspel Thu 21-Mar-13 09:51:56

All depends on how much money he actual has.

If he has £500k then £15k wouldn't really make a dent and i would ask. But if he has £100k or lower then £15k would be quite a chunk and so no i wouldn't.

If he is in his 70,s he could live another 20 years and need every penny he has been able to save. He might need a care home or home care at some stage in the future and need every penny. If he loaned you the money could you pay it back over the next 2 years? with a regular monthly payment?

quietlysuggests Thu 21-Mar-13 09:58:42

Hi OP, you sound like a lovely thoughtful person, and I feel that whatever you do, will be done in the right spirit and not in the least bit grasping.
I would open up the discussion with him, I really would.
If he knows you, and your relationship is growing stronger, then he will know that you are coming from a good place,
Best of luck. This could aid your relationship and bring you closer. Try not to worry too much what other people think - whatever happens, dont tell people in RL the details, always in life people will judge others harshly and you might be sensitive to that.

CrapBag Thu 21-Mar-13 10:05:41

I would ask him since he has offered to help you anyway, it sounds like he wants to help. Take it!

My GPs want to help me and DH with a deposit but they can't afford it. My GF looked into a way to release money from his pension but he couldn't. They would love to help. MIL on the other hand can afford to but won't. We asked for a very small loan (and it was loan, would have been paid back by now) and she came out with an excuse that if her ex had still been with her she would have, even though she knows we have struggled for years and constantly asked when we are moving/getting bigger house/buying when renting all the time knowing full well that we just can't afford it. It always seems to me that people who want to help can't and people who can help won't so take the offer that he is hinting at. smile

We are saving from scratch again and we won't have much, shared ownership is our only option but if there was an offer of help, I would take it, although I admit like you I wouldn't know how to broach the subject and I would feel awkward but I know if it was my DCs and I was able to help I would jump at the chance, although it will be unlikely we would ever be able to.

CrapBag Thu 21-Mar-13 10:06:25

Oh and you really don't sound grasping. You have already saved and have refused help many times, you clearly are not just after what you can get.

SlowLooseChippings Thu 21-Mar-13 10:24:21

To be honest, the 15k isn't entirely for you is it?

It's security for your family - putting a roof over your kids' heads, keeping them in an area close to their grandad and maintaining their stability re schools and friends and so on.

It's a bit more immediately useful to them than being in the will as his beneficiaries, when as other posters have pointed out all of his assets may well have been swallowed by care home fees in the meantime.

I would, as it makes financial sense. Maybe not ask outright for it, but ask for advice with your dilemma and if help is offered, take it. It's better estate planning for him and it's providing security for you and your children. Definitely no part ownership or putting him on the title, as it does carry tax and inheritance issues as well as costing you the fees required to execute the paperwork.

Floggingmolly Thu 21-Mar-13 10:28:47

It's an awkward one. I would want my children to ask me, if they needed to; I wouldn't dream of asking my parents confused. Unhelpful.

I def dont think you are being unreasonable here.

You clearly arent a grasping person and have demonstrated real concern about a sensitive issue. I'd say that asking your fathers opinion about what he thinks is best might resolve the situation, with him offering to help you. Parents generally want to help where they can and you seem to have a good relationship with him.

Money matters are always massively awkward I think (def the case with my parents). Taking good sound financial advice would maybe ease any other concerns that both of you have too.

My parents are in their early 80's now and didnt take up the chance to sign over their house. I've no idea what will happen if they need care..

cozietoesie Thu 21-Mar-13 10:37:58

I'm trying to remember how I broached the subject with parents at different times and I have a feeling I just asked along the lines of 'Mum/Dad I need to borrow £xk - could you have a think about it and I'll phone you back this evening to discuss'.

It helps that we have pretty open views on money/savings/wills etc in our family. (eg we all re-write wills regularly and discuss them with each other because we're mostly all each others' executors.)

megandraper Thu 21-Mar-13 10:50:45

cozie - I didn't mean that the OP would need to sell her current house (though I don't think she has one anyway) to pay the inheritance tax on her DF's estate - you are right, the tax would come out of the estate itself. I meant that if her DF gave her £15k and then, sadly, passed away within the next few years, then she might be liable for inheritance tax on that £15k. I am not a tax lawyer though.

rollmeover Thu 21-Mar-13 10:52:43

Ask him, it sounds like he wants to help. Even if he doesnt want the money back you could put it aside in an account to use if he ever did need anything.

I dont think you sound grasping. Families should help each other (as long as it is affordable, is appreciated and everyone will do the same for one another).

You are an only child, so you are not going to take it from another sibling.

My parents have helped me and my siblings out on various occassions for important things - house purchase, further education, help with childcare costs. Its not like you are asking for a trip to Florida! Its something that will provide you with stabilitiy and if can afford it then Im sure he will want to help.

cozietoesie Thu 21-Mar-13 10:57:57

Much depends on the individual relationship. I'd go for it if I were in your shoes Greatscotty - you have good precedent and I suspect he would enjoy helping.

kalidanger Thu 21-Mar-13 10:59:33

DF is always asking if there's anything he can do to make things easier/better.

Accept his offer of help! You don't have to start laying out numbers, just don't say no the next time and see where the conversation goes.

firesidechat Thu 21-Mar-13 11:00:25

It's an awkward one. I would want my children to ask me, if they needed to; I wouldn't dream of asking my parents . Unhelpful.

Flogging - I probably share your feelings. We have helped our grown up children out and will do for a few more years. Only with big things like weddings, uni and house buying and they have never asked. It was offered freely. We have never had money from my parents because we haven't needed it, they can't afford it and I would be too independent to do it. There will be no inheritance coming our way either.

However once we reach retirement age we won't be able to give money away. Our pension won't be huge and we will need every penny. Elderly people on a small income have to think of themselves more. Personally I don't want to be worrying about heating and finding money for a few treats in my last years. I will spend the inheritance if needed. I've already warned my children not to expect an inheritance. That way anything they get will be a bonus.

lainiekazan Thu 21-Mar-13 11:48:29

Agree with others that your df suddenly gifting you £15K could be seen as deprivation of assets, no matter how long he lives.

Also - the nursing home situation. Pil certainly didn't expect to need care; I suppose like most people they thought they'd go on forever. Now they are both in homes costing £1500 altogether. Now, if you have then the disadvantage is that you have to pay out your savings, but if the council pays then they choose your home. Friend's father was sent to a home 40 miles away. If you don't care where your father ends up, accept his money. If you want him to be able to choose, find out if he has a decent sum above and beyond the £15K for his future needs.

cozietoesie Thu 21-Mar-13 11:54:22

Greatscotty has said that she could live more cheaply if she bought. There's nothing to stop her putting aside that difference in expenditure in a 'rainy day fund' which could be used in the event of care home issues - if even for the interest on a £15k loan to pay back the estate. (Which would in any case be easier for her to obtain as a home owner.)

The modest size of the amount needed really means that there are few if any implications for her over and above those which she would have to face from day to day living in rented property.

Librarina Thu 21-Mar-13 14:14:21

I'm a bit like you Great in that I've always tried to make my own way, however my parents are always offering to help me out if I mention any kind of difficulty. Like when I was upset at work my Mum said I could leave and she would give me some financial support if I wanted to retrain. In that instance I was able to work through the trouble and didn't need to take her up on her kind offer, but it does sometimes have the effect of making me not want to moan about any kind of financial woes to my folks as I find it all a bit embarassing and I'd rather sort it out myself.

However as they are both always saying 'We'd rather see you enjoy it while we're here, it'll all be yours anyway', I know in my heart that if things were really and truly bad (if I lost my job for example or if DH and I split up) they would be happy to help me as much as they can afford. Which feels weird when I'm supposed to be an independant grown-up, but also nice that my parents are so totally on my side.

I think, like others have said, next time he offers mention that you are keen to buy your own place but that you need some support, that you'd be keen to offer him shared ownership or put the difference away until you could pay him back.

Most parents are nice and want to help their kids. I'm sure I'll be helping my baby out when s/he is born, for a long long time.

BadabingBadabong Thu 21-Mar-13 14:35:18

Ragwort your parents gave you 10k then you lent them 2k but made them pay interest back? Were you kidding?

Greatscotty Thu 21-Mar-13 14:35:25

I've read all your very, very thoughtful responses and thank you.

I've got no idea what the threshold for inheritance tax is, if anyone does perhaps you can tell me.

I know he has sought legal advice about such matters because my DM went, very briefly, into care just before she died. She was something like £16 over the threshold and so he was paying a lot for her care.

So I am going to talk to him within the next few days as he asked again yesterday what he can do to help. 15k was a liberal estimate btw, hopefully it would be far less than that and I'd still expect to 'cut my cloth' according to how much I can afford to borrow as a mortgage. Don't want a palace, just somewhere for me and DD until she finally flees the nest for good.

Ironically our local paper is today quoting The Times who have 'officially' named my area as one of the top 30 towns in the UK. By this evening house prices will have jumped up AGAIN!

You have given me a lot to think about and I feel much clearer about how to talk with him, how to ensure he doesn't feel on the spot, how to avoid 'fixing' a sum in his mind which he may then feel he HAS to lend//gift whatever, and how I can let him know that I completely understand if he would rather not, or wants to help in some other way.

smile

megandraper Thu 21-Mar-13 14:43:31

you sound like a very thoughtful person, OP, good luck.

I believe the inheritance tax threshold is £325,000, but you should check this.

It will probably make your DF very happy to see you and your DD in a home that he has helped you buy. All being well, when it's done, you could write him a letter telling him how much that means to you both - I think that might feel very meaningful to him.

Good luck, hope it works out well for you all.

ZillionChocolate Sun 24-Mar-13 09:19:43

This all requires some research, although you say he has taken advice. I have a feeling that a loaned deposit will cause trouble getting a mortgage.

sarahtigh Sun 24-Mar-13 11:03:14

threshold is 325 until 2017 a couple can transfer so OP will have 650K total later

gifts upto 3000k per year are free of inheritance tax also each parent can give each child 5k on marriage,

other gifts can be free of inheritance tax if are made out of income (not selling assets) and do not decrease living standard

asset deprivation is relative, going on 2 cruises a year in retirement, adding a conservatory to house etc is not; giving both children 100k each leaving yourself with 50k is deprivation

chat to your Dad whether 15k is ok depends on his assets,

if he is leaving money/house to your children please ask him to leave in trust until 21/25 ( maybe with interest from 18) so it is not wasted on sale although law says 18 I think a lot of 18 year olds are not sensible enough to use a one off inheritance wisely

lljkk Sun 24-Mar-13 15:11:45

I would ask.

Maryz Sun 24-Mar-13 15:20:29

I think Claude's idea upthread is a good one.

Say you are looking at buying, and were trying to work out figures to see whether or not it is feasible, and maybe he could go through it with you. Say ou think you are probably a bit short, and wonder whether he might see if he could help.

As in "I'm being upfront and honest, let's talk about it and see what happens" rather than "I want some money".

Personally I would hate to see my children struggle for what is a (relatively) small amount. As long as he isn't leaving himself short, he would probably get a great deal of pleasure out of being able to help you out.

TeenyW123 Sun 24-Mar-13 17:10:18

How old is dad? Do you know how much his estate is worth? Is he currently fit and well? You may both have an opportunity for some tax planning to reduce the amount of IHT that may eventually be due.

I think it's a good area to broach the subject with him. After all, if you need the funds now, why not?

My father has advanced me money (some of my inheritance) because it was timely and appreciated.

Teeny

Greatscotty Tue 26-Mar-13 15:38:34

Hello all.

To update, I have had a talk with my DF and he is happy to help me to buy a home.

When he asked me what I needed I asked him to help out with the costs of buying (i.e. the conveyancing and survey and stamp duty) which will be somewhat less than £5k. I also offered to pay it back on a monthly basis but he refused.

I am raising the mortgage, paying the deposit and will be fully self supporting thereafter. He was very pleased to do it, he said. I am so relieved and reassured that me and DD will have somewhere to properly call home in the not too distant future.

Thank you all for helping me to have a very difficult (for me) conversation with my DF.

flowers to you all.

greenfolder Tue 26-Mar-13 15:44:23

Thats a lovely update op-enjoy your new home.

mrsjay Tue 26-Mar-13 15:47:08

from your title I did seem a little grasping and I WANT,
but your father seems willing to help you and as you said a mortgage at 50 is difficult to come by ask him if he can help you out there really is no harm in asking him is there

mrsjay Tue 26-Mar-13 15:48:06

aww should have read on ( I never do) thats great smile

NaturalBaby Tue 26-Mar-13 15:52:50

I have a relative who is 'gifting' as much as possible to avoid inheritance tax. I would suggest it to you dad if he'd rather his/your DM's hard earned money go to his family rather than the tax man.

grin
yeay!
that's wonderful that he is happy and able to help you.
which means in the future, you can do the same for your DD smile

KellyElly Tue 26-Mar-13 16:01:04

Good for you. There are too many people on these forums who seem to think parenting ends when the child moves out. If I was ever in a position to help my DD financially when she was an adult then I would. It's not grabby or grasping or any of the other words used on MN, it's what most normal loving parents would do if they were able.

Ragwort Tue 26-Mar-13 17:54:12

Thanks for updating, that sounds excellent, well done for having the conversation smile. I am sure you DF is pleased to be in a position to help you, my DPs are extremely generous and kind hearted, they can afford to be (and also give generously to charities etc in case I sound greedy grin) and I know they enjoy seeing their childrens' enjoyment.

Great outcome, Greatscotty - the best!

CabbageLeaves Thu 28-Mar-13 07:22:50

smile

ZillionChocolate Sun 31-Mar-13 10:10:16

Great news

lovetomoan Mon 01-Apr-13 16:14:15

Good luck OP, but if you are going to ask for any help, doing before your DF marries again.

lovetomoan Mon 01-Apr-13 16:16:45

do it, not doing.

aldiwhore Mon 01-Apr-13 16:20:05

Personaly I believe in clarity, but appreciate it must have been a hard discussion for you (as it is for many people).

My parents offered to help me when I was in crisis, and the first time (not proud of one instance let alone two!) I paid every penny back, which is part of the reason why I needed to ask again... the second time, we were very honest with each other, the money will come out of my share after they're gone. That is for me the best loan ever, doesn't make things unfair for my siblings and is absolutely fine with my folks.

I believe in clarity because if you don't talk about these things, the chances of family fueds increase.

I'm really glad you've sorted this op and think you've experienced that grey area where you're not being grabby, but don't wish to be seen as such. Happy new home and happy happy relationship with your dad, it sounds like it's been a long time coming x

sherazade Mon 01-Apr-13 16:55:03

My mum took an advance on her inheritance from her mum. they were incredibly close and had a loving , perfect relationship. Nothing pleased my grandma more than knowing, before she passed away, that she helped my parents and the 5 of us children to secure a beautiful home after decades of renting, moving and living on estates.

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