Or are my parents a complete waste of time and energy

(229 Posts)

So i'm 20 weeks pregnant I have one 4 year old son whose autistic and I am currently attempting to gain my degree in nursing.

A couple of weeks ago my car broke down very suddenly when I was on my way to a placement for uni. This particular placement is in the middle of nowhere so I really do need my car. My father took out a loan so I could buy the car (this took 6 solid months of begging and finally my brothers had a word. he can afford to help as he has a very good job working off shore) and I pay him back every month through paypal as he lives abroad. When the car broke down I thought I would try and appeal to his better nature and I asked him if I could defer on this month?s payment for the car as I needed to get it fixed, well he went nuts! I said ? dad I need my car I have to get to placement I have one child who I have to transport around and another on the way? to which he replied ? don?t even start me on your that (meaning the pregnancy) it?s a fucking mistake and if I was you I would get rid of it!? #

Now, there was absolutely no need for that reply was there? I swiftly told him he is a horrible old man and not to contact me again. I did however say that he would get the car payments back even if it puts me into debt doing it.

Now for my mum! She had been involved in a very toxic relationship with a man for 3 years. I thought it was over last year when he beat her and was really relieved as I cannot stand him. My brother and I traveled the 86 miles to remove him from her home and make sure she was ok. After this my aunties and he friends began to tell me other things this man had done for example, screaming in my son?s face (he hates loud noises and get really distraught) pinning my mum by the throat to a wall, the list is endless really. Needless to say he is a nasty drunken idiot, and if I ever saw him again I would quite happily run over him and then reverse back over him just to make sure I got him!

My mother knows how I and my other 2 brother feel about this man, her sisters and her friends have made their feelings clear too and we have all done our very best to try to support her. So in November you can imagine my horror and, well, anger when I found out that this man had never really left, she had removed his son from her home (10 years old) but then continued to see this guy on the sly. What makes it worse is that my son has been in her house while he was there (she denies it but I know he has!)
I asked her to watch my son for me in my house as me and my partner are planning on going on a trip away together, this is something we never get as we don?t really have much support around us so we don?t get any ?us? time. This is when she A, decided to tell me that this useless excuse of a man was back on the scene and, B was going on holiday with him so couldn't help me out.

I feel like I want to cease all contact with them both. I am so angry hurt and disgusted at their behavior.

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 02:49:11

I'm only saying my knee jerk reaction on what you've written, but you were unreasonable to try and default on the payment to your Dad, you don't have any right to try and make him responsible for your car.

Your Dad was totally unreasonable to be so out of control as to say that about your pregnancy, really nasty thing to try and hurt you with.

Your Mum can choose who she wants to be with on her own, you don't have any right to tell her who she can/can't see. Although you don't have to let your DS have any contact with her while she's with this man, and you can refuse to give her support if she keeps putting herself into a situation you find difficult to deal with, which would leave her isolated and wouldn't make you feel any better.

Which makes you being angry at her for going on holiday instead of looking after your DS unreasonable, she's not at your beck and call as a babysitting service, as hard as that might be on you and your DP.

It sounds like a complicated and difficult situation all round really, and I don't blame you in the slightest for trying to gather yourself and get a bit of distance from them.

What were they like when you were younger?

Astelia Sat 16-Mar-13 02:55:50

OP you sound about 15. Why is it your parents responsibility to give you a car loan or do your babysitting? Your father shouldn't have said what he did but I suspect he is fed up with you not planning ahead and expecting him to bail you out.

I'm not making him responsible for the car payment though, he's family, i asked for some help thinking that's what parents do when their child's in trouble. Its not unreasonable for me to expect a little help as one of my brothers had to move in with my dad as he lost his house and his job, He has now been staying there for 2 years rent free and he has a job to help with the rent etc. Also can i just add this isn't an uncommon occurrence with my brother: he's been bailed out more times than Greece!

I totally agree she can choose who she spends her time with but not who she subjects my son to. Its also really hard to take that she has been blatantly lying through her teeth for a solid year.

babysitting service - No but some support for her daughter who has a lot on her plate between my degree, social work meetings, play therapy, educational psychology, occupational health and nursery appointments. I never ask for help and i mean never! I thought as a grandmother she would rather spend time with her grandson than with a man who beats her and who isolates her from her friends and family.

I don't really have a lot of memories from childhood if i'm honest, most of my time was spent in hospital as i had chronic asthma. But what i do remember is my dad coming home from the rigs and getting drunk for a solid 2 weeks, and not being allowed to make a noise between 7-8 pm as my mum went for a nap then and would go off on one. I spent most of my time at my grans house. She was my best friend and 2nd mother,

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 03:20:36

At the risk of upsetting you, I have to say you've got a sense of entitlement that would fill St Pauls and then some.

It's like you think they owe you and you have every right to collect.

You don't.

If you're an adult, and you must be to be driving, you can't expect other people to put themselves out for you, you're just setting yourself up for a fall if you do.

It must hurt to see your mum choosing this toerag over you though, but would you really be comfortable going away knowing she was looking after your DS when she's lied to you for so long?

where did i say give me a car loan? I asked to defer on one payment which is £70!
How did you come to the conclusion that i don't forward plan? can you forward plan for your transport breaking down at the end of the month?

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 03:29:28

Your Dad over reacted when he could have just said 'You can't because I need it for something I've got to pay for', but you started to argue with him after he'd said no!

It wasn't your money to ask to keep, you were in effect asking to borrow it from him again, and he wasn't having any of it (and stooped to levels he shouldn't have gone to).

Like I said, he's not responsible for your budgeting or the fact you live in a place where you need a car which had broken down.

You really can't lay that at his door.

I don't have a sense of entitlement, i do however expect a bit of help if my brother has had more than a helping hand. My other brother and i just get on with it usually, we always have. I had to ask for the car loan as i got refused, my sons behavior was getting worse and if he didn't want to go somewhere he would lay down on the ground and refuse to move, rain, hail, snow the lot. It got so bad i ended putting my back out trying to carry him home and i routinely got my hair ripped out and punch in the face. I asked to defer for a while on one months payment to aid me in getting it repaired that's all. I ended up having to take out one of those awful payday loans so i could get around.

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 03:34:01

And I don't have any meaningful contact with one half of my parents, so I'm not unsympathetic to needing to distance yourself from toxic people.

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 03:36:14

Have you tried the 'SN board' on MN OP?

There are some really lovely posters there who can help support you in what sounds like a difficult situation.

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 03:39:29

I'm not sure where the SN board is I'm afraid, maybe someone else knows?

But the Stately Homes thread in relationships for survivors of dysfunctional families is very enlightening and you'll find you're not on your own.

Internationaltraveller Sat 16-Mar-13 03:57:05

That was a terrible thing he said to you OP. You souns like a strong person though.

notnagging Sat 16-Mar-13 04:02:01

Your parents help when they're in a position too. Taking out a loan for you means he couldn't afford it but you emotionally blackmailed him into doing so. When you needed another favour you tried to do the same but it didnt work do your upset.
Your mother is an adult & there is nothing you can do unless she's ready. Cutting her off will not help her. She needs to know you are there for her even if she's not ready to leave.

notnagging Sat 16-Mar-13 04:04:23

Also have you tried to apply for disability living allowance for your son? Payday loans are a slippery path op.

WandaDoff Sat 16-Mar-13 05:43:13

OP if you private message me, I will send you as many helpful links & plans as I can. x

whosiwhatsit Sat 16-Mar-13 08:41:41

I don't think you sound entitled, for what it's worth. Healthy families help each other out and there's a reason for the saying "it takes a village to raise a child." Yet your father can afford to help but makes you beg for every little crumb. And then over a measly £70 he's willing to say the nastiest things possible to you with no regard to his own grandchildren. With your mother things are more complicated. She's an abuse victim and you can't really blame her for that. She sounds weak but not nasty from what you've written here. If I were you I would stop talking to your father. YANBU.

DoJo Sat 16-Mar-13 08:45:38

I tend to agree that you sound as though you think your dad owes you - he clearly didn't want to take out the loan in the first place, but you employed emotional blackmail and involved your brother in order to put pressure on him. Whether or not you think he can afford it isn't the point - you couldn't afford a car so him lending you the money for one should have been a personal decision. He may see you asking him to defer payment as a slippery slope towards being saddled with the lot, which is understandable as that is usually how these things start.
I also think, whilst the way he said it was completely unforgivable, that he may have legitimate concerns about your pregnancy - if your budget is so tight that you can't scrape together £70 for essential car repairs, then perhaps adding a baby to your already stretched financial situation seems to him like a bad idea. It may be none of his (or anyone else's) business, but you have involved him by asking for additional support and he may think that you are making decisions which aren't in your own best interests. I just want to stress that I IN NO WAY think that what he said was anything other than vile, but it does sound as though you were pushing him to do something he didn't want to do, so he may have lashed out with that comment.
The fact that he supports your brother is neither here nor there, as unfortunately there is no imperative to be exactly equal, and if he does in fact believe that you are making irresponsible decisions concerning your family then he may feel disinclined to offer you the same because he sees your situation as of your own making.
Your mother is another matter - if she has failed to respect your wishes regarding your son's contact with her boyfriend, then you have every right to be angry, but all you can really do is not leave your son in her care, which is relatively simple. She may need further help in the future to break away from this toxic relationship again, but she presumably knows how you feel about him after the last time, so all you can do is hope she finds the strength to get out, and protect yourself from exposure to his behaviour as much as possible.
I genuinely wish you well - you sound as though you feel terribly put upon at the moment and there is nothing worse than having unsupportive parents, but I think you need to stop expecting so much of them in order not protect yourself from future disappointment.

Goldenbear Sat 16-Mar-13 08:57:43

Op you don't sound entitled at all. Your father sounds like a poisonous man whom I would distance myself from. To me, a normal parent/daughter relationship is epitomised by the qualities of loyalty, unconditional love and doing anything within your power to help your children.

I really hope things improve for you.

raisah Sat 16-Mar-13 09:14:16

If my dc asked for help in similar circumstances to yours I would help knowing what difficulties they would face if I didnt. You were not asking him to wipe the debt clean but an extra month grace so yoy could get your car fixed. You are not entitled but in your vuknerable state your dad thought it was ok to abuse you when you asked for help. He is also causing a potential rift between his kids by favouring one above the other. Both of your parents sound toxic, you are better off disengaging from them.

Try Homestart as they can offer practical help in dealing with your ds. You need to have a break aswell.

raspberryroop Sat 16-Mar-13 09:33:17

So it took 6 mths to 'begging' to get your father to take out a loan??? totally unreasonable behaviour to start with - perhaps he just couldn't afford it and you to be honest have proven why he shouldn't have and didn't want to by defaulting.

raspberryroop Sat 16-Mar-13 09:34:55

Raisah - you say you would help out your children - what if you just didn't have the money ?? Bit of a bloody assumption about the fathers means here.

DontmindifIdo Sat 16-Mar-13 09:42:58

you know what, you do sound entitled - your dad had to make the payment on that loan he took out for you, even if you didn't pay him. You didn't ask for the repairs, you asked him to cover your payment this month. That's not fair. It's your problem, not your dad's.

Your mum is an idiot to see this man, and you are right to be angry she's lied about him being around your DS, but the only thing you can do there is not to use your mum for childcare.

Basically, if you want help, you have to accept the person offering the help sets the terms, not the person being helped. If you want to be the one who decides the terms, then you pay - you take out your own loan (and good luck with getting a bank to just drop a payment because money was tight this month), you pay for childcare and then you can say who does and does not see your DS when he is in their care. You say she's not a babysitting service, but you do want her to look after your child so you and your DP can go away and you can study.

cancel your trip away with your DP, you need the money if you don't even have a spare £70 for emergancies.

secretofcrickleyhall Sat 16-Mar-13 09:48:33

I agree with DoJo; I think that was a really nice post x

I think you're getting a hard time here,OP. sounds like they have been terrible parents from since you were young. I wouldn't be bothering with either of them to be honest. Getting knocked back when asking for a bit of charitable good will from your own family in times of real need when you are doing everything you can to improve your life will destroy your self-worth and self-esteem in the long run.

Personally I would distance myself from both of them. Pay your dad back and then have nothing more to do with him. He sounds horrible and your mum is choosing to live her life the way she wants even though you have put yourself out trying to help her see sense.

They do sound completely toxic. Don't let them infect YOU.

SneakyNinja Sat 16-Mar-13 09:53:09

Agree with dontmindifido. Going away for a break with your partner is a luxury that most people do not have. Being able to postpone a loan payment is a luxury most people do not have, the ability to study to advance your career whilst getting free childcare from a parent.....well you get the idea.

You sound like you are trying your hardest and going through a tough time at the moment but it looks like your parents are unable to help you any more so you may have to start making sacrifices.

Ps i do however agree with others who say that as much as you'd like a trip away at the moment then you clearly can't afford it so should not go.

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Mar-13 10:01:40

Op, I for one don't think you are entitled or unreasonable. Parenting doesn't stop once your children are 18. You should still be able to support them as far as possible in their choices.

There is a whole world of difference to supporting someone who is workshy or appalling with money, to extending a hand to someone trying to make a decent go of their life.

There is nothing you can do about your mother though. But I think I'd be giving your father a wide berth for the foreseeable. Unless of course he spunks his money from the oil rigs on high living once he gets home and is in a similarly impoverished state.

A lot of posters opinions will be jaundiced by their own relationship with their parents and extended family. They got nothing by way of affection or support growing up and expect nothing, it's almost a badge of honour to make this claim. One can only wonder at what point they will cut adrift their own children.

MummytoKatie Sat 16-Mar-13 10:26:50

I think I agree with Agentzigzag - you are sounding quite entitled.

I also wonder if your dad thinks he made mistakes with enabling your brother and doesn't want you to go the same way.

It doesn't excuse the things he said but they may have been heat of the moment and you don't know what the financial impact would be on him of having to pay tour loan is. Presumably if he had been that wealthy he could have just leant you the money rather than getting a loan himself.

I also agree that cancelling the trip should pay for the car repairs and wonder about the responsibility of booking a trip away when you have no savings and so a car breaking down is such a disaster.

(Incidentally Holly I have a very good relationship with my parents. They are pretty well off and regularly come up with more and more imaginative ways of trying to give us money. We have to come up with more and more imaginative ways of thwarting them as we are adults and prefer to stand on our own two feet. )

raspberryroop Sat 16-Mar-13 10:31:48

She is a parent and should be responsible for her own kids not looking for stuff/money/childcare off her own parents. Its not that you wouldn't help out your grown up children, but the 'begged for 6mths' to make her Dad Take out a loan and then whines when he's nasty cause she cant pay but she CAN afford to go away with her DP and lets be honest and very blunt here, CAN afford to be pregnant - why cant her DP help out pay for the repairs. Most of this mess is down to the OP lack of responsibility for herself, nothing else.

Lucyellensmum95 Sat 16-Mar-13 10:32:03

So, your father took out a loan to buy you a car? And then when he needed you to make the repayments you told him not to contact you again? christ on a bike

raspberryroop Sat 16-Mar-13 10:32:13

Her dad didn't get her up the duff did he?

Lucyellensmum95 Sat 16-Mar-13 10:34:14

USe the money you were going to use for the trip away to pay for the car, you also wont have to leave your child with someone you don't like - sorted. Honestly, its time you grew up actually.

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 10:37:08

A bit of a nasty swipe at those who think the OP's being unreasonable in your last paragraph Holly.

I agree that posters are writing from the perspective they've experienced, but where else do you think they going to write from?

I can only speak for myself, but I received a lot of support and affection from my parents growing up, finding out they're not what I thought they were when I got older is hardly 'badge of honour' material.

Come back in 10/20 years and I'll tell you whether that experience has fucked me sufficiently so I've inevitably fucked up my own children.

letseatgrandma Sat 16-Mar-13 10:42:01

Your poor dad-you sound like a nightmare! If you have to badger someone for 6 months to take out a loan-does it not occur to you at any point that they really don't want to do it? Then, you are planning a holiday away, have got pregnant (both v expensive activities) but are expecting him to pay a loan repayment for your car for a loan he didn't want to take out! I can totally understand where your dad is coming from. You sound about 15.

raspberryroop Sat 16-Mar-13 10:48:19

Holly - its not about love from parents or any perspective of, its about reasonable expectations.
Reasonable to ask Dad for a loan - yes
Reasonable to ask Dad to take out a loan FOR You - just.
Reasonable to pester for 6 mths and get brother to join in begging ? NO - Then reasonable to default on payment and wonder why he's pissed off NO

MummytoKatie Sat 16-Mar-13 10:50:17

Again - agree with agentzigzag

SneakyNinja Sat 16-Mar-13 11:20:57

I have a wonderful relationship with my parents holly they are infact the most supportive and helpful people I know. So there is no need for me to debate that point as you appear to just be incorrect in this instance smile

The holiday was a gift from my partners parents at xmas. They said we work hard and never get time away so they got us a week away, theu are looking after him for half of the time, i was asking one of my parentd to look after him for 48 hours!

My father pay packet is obscene, he's a camp boss on a oil rigg its no minimum wage job. The reason i asked begged him to help me out with the car was because im not entitled to a mobility car for my son! I was struggling on a daily basis with my son i was refused credit as i am a student and my partners credit rating is terrible. My dad has given my brother thousands over the years, i have never asked for help, so its unreasonable to ask for help taking out a loan when i was really struggling. i wouldn't of asked if i wasn't desperate! Im not asking him to pay it..i do, every month with no problem usually. i was asking for one months grace!!

Murphy0510 Sat 16-Mar-13 11:33:43

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letseatgrandma Sat 16-Mar-13 11:34:38

Once month's grace from a loan YOU made him take out for you when he didn't want to. Will you just listen to yourself?

Spoilt..pfft i wish!! i sound spoilt for needing transport and asking my father to help out his daughter! A sense of entitlement would be asking him to give me the car, i asked for the means to help me get it and a payment plan to give the money back to him!

Lucyellensmum95 Sat 16-Mar-13 11:41:29

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raspberryroop Sat 16-Mar-13 11:45:36

You know your fathers income but you do not know his expenditure - if he had to take out a loan then he's hardly rolling in it is he. Why are you pregnant if you can't afford a car that is necessary for your course ?

BackforGood Sat 16-Mar-13 11:59:56

I have to agree with AgentZigZag, Raspberryroop and others.
Interesting that you've made a choice to be a student but yet still feel entitled to be able to afford to run a car, get pregnant, and go on holiday, whilst thinking other people should somehow fund that for you hmm Not the way I think, for sure.
As 2 adults, you and your partner should surely be taking responsibility for your own lives. For this case, you could use the 'break' money to pay for the car repairs, and then you don't have worries about your mother looking after your child either.

drudgewithagrudge Sat 16-Mar-13 12:01:40

Where is the father of your children in all this? It seems to me that he is more responsible for your situation than your father.

LadyPessaryPam Sat 16-Mar-13 12:05:33

Personally I would cut both your parents out of your life and I wouldn't pay your Dad another penny. Concentrate on your brothers, they sound nice, and your DP and DCs. Your 'D'Ps don't deserve your love and concern.

DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 12:08:40

I agree with most of the others, you sound very spoilt. I think its mortifying to badger your dad for 6 months, then ask to default on a payment. I would be so embarrassed if I were you. If your pil are rich enough to buy you a week away, ask them for the car money. Most people don't get given a weeks free holiday by the way. This break your going on, I know its paid for, but aren't you taking any spending money with you ?
Most people on here would love just an evening out with there partner, but money and childcare issues restrict a lot of people being able to do this. Most people don't get a break or us time. It's called parenthood.
You dad sounds horrible for what he said to you though. I feel sorry for your mum.
She probably doesn't want to look after your son, to keep him away from her violent partner. Sounds like she's been through a lot.

SneakyNinja Sat 16-Mar-13 12:09:58

Ok, I am not going to call you a brat or entitled or anything like that but it does sound to me as if you have a lot going on (parents issues aside) and maybe a little perspective is needed.
Your Mother sounds like she is in an abusive relationship and although this can be so bloody frustrating and difficult to understand, she probably needs support rather than anger towards her. If she is already planning on going on holiday and cannot babysit for you, that's just tough luck I'm afraid. She shouldn't really be expected to change that.

As for your Father, I also agree with others that say his expenditure may be more than you think. If he had to take out a loan for your car then he obviously isn't rolling in it and clearly has little savings. What he said to you was completely out of order. End of. It may be that he is frustrated with YOUR CHOICE to get pregnant again whilst you are clearly already struggling.

Dededum Sat 16-Mar-13 12:18:53

OP don't think you are spoilt, getting a really hard time on here.

I do know how it feels to be struggling when your parents are wealthy but then it is hard to ever know the extent of another persons value.

raspberryroop Sat 16-Mar-13 12:37:46

Dedebum - he had to take a LOAN out to buy her car that is not wealthy.

Pigsmummy Sat 16-Mar-13 12:44:14

SneakyNinja makes the point well, going away leaving your child with your Mum is a luxury not an entitlement. I don't have that option and probably won't go away with just my husband for many years. Asking for childcare support is fine but your mum is perfectly allowed to say no if she is going away herself, do you expect her to cancel her trip? If I needed a car I wouldn't beg my father for a loan, you begged him for six months?! Did you think to apply for loans from your bank? The fact you need a car is your business and no one else.

Your father said terrible things in the heat of a row, he should apologise for what he said re pregnancy, I am sure that you said some nasty things to him too, so offer an apology for what you said too?

You need to sit down and work out some future plans, what are you planning on doing for childcare when baby arrives and you are studying? Have you done some financial planning? How will you be able to fit shift work around children? Especially one that needs routine?

Euphemia Sat 16-Mar-13 12:49:02

My father pay packet is obscene

Well good for him - he'll have worked hard for it. Just what makes you think you're entitled to any of it?

Mintyy Sat 16-Mar-13 12:49:31

I can completely see why you have a problem with your mother and I feel terribly sorry for you about that. It must be so hurtful and frustrating and I am sure you are very worried about her.

But I can't see why you are having a tantrum about your dad! He took out a loan to get you a car ... why on earth would he do that if he could afford to buy you one as easily as you seem to think?

Has he given you a lot of money over the years?

Is it his fault that your dp's credit rating is terrible?

I agree that what he said about your second pregnancy is absolutely terrible (but you have to admit the timing is bad).

Fairylea Sat 16-Mar-13 12:58:03

Why did you buy a car that costs £70 a month to repay ??? If you really really need a car there are plenty of reasonable decent older cars out there that cost in the region of £500, if you could afford to wait for 6 months while you begged your dad to give you a loan that is costing you £70 a month you could have saved for a cheaper one and not involved your parents. I have driven for 10 years and never had a car that has cost more than £500-1000 and we have never had any major problems.

Viviennemary Sat 16-Mar-13 13:05:41

Your father did say a horrible thing in the heat of the moment. But why should he be responsble for paying for your car. As for your mother, I think you and your brothers should let her get on with her own life even though you think she's making a disaster of it. You can tell her if you like but it probably won't make any difference.

It sounds as if you have taken on far too much at the present time and are stressed out. It is nice to receive support both financial and otherwise from your family when you are an adult but I don't think it should be seen as an entitlement.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 16-Mar-13 13:13:31

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DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 13:24:30

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nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 13:26:17

This was probably the last place you should have expected to look for sympathy. I've never asked my family for any help whatsoever but when I was moving and going through a stressful time I did expect them all to be there. It's what families are for. All these people calling you a brat, hmm exactly then what are parents for? I have two children and I would take out a loan if it meant helping them. Similarly I'd take out a loan if my parents needed my help - and I have helped them financially. It's called a FAMILY. OPs trying her best to better herself for her family, she's not exactly sat around on her bum enjoying benefit handouts. And as shown by her worry re her mother I think she'd put herself out if it ever came to her mum (and dad?) needing financial help. Perhas the 'brat' outbursts indicate that these posters would cut the tie at the 16 / 18th birthday.
Well done OP for trying to get forward in life. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face, but limit contact to these toxic people to what you can get away with.

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 13:27:56

I dont think it's just the Op who's had a bashing - probably everyone who expects parents to help when they need help. But I doubt anyone would now change their minds just because many posters on here think parents shouldn't help their kids.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 16-Mar-13 13:32:59

Nobody has said that parents shouldn't help their kids. Where did you read that? Family though is about the WHOLE family, ie. everybody helps each other. OP is concerned about herself and her own wants and needs - car payments and childcare.

What exactly does her partner do to step up for his family?

No, OP's dad shouldn't have said what he did about the pregnancy but, do you know what? I bet we've just had the edited highlights here and there's a backstory that goes very far back. I thought this when I read the first post and the subsequent one... Jow many occasions of 'help' have there been, OP - truthfully?

I don't like the word 'entitled' but it really does fit. You're either in a family or you aren't and, if you ask a favour of someobdy, they must be free to say yes or no without 'penalty'. I would be so disappointed if a child of mine turned out with OP's skewed views.

secretofcrickleyhall Sat 16-Mar-13 13:36:04

the thing is, she went on at her dad for SIX MONTHS for the loan!

that tells me:

a) she could cope without the car
b) he really didn't want to take out the loan

Euphemia Sat 16-Mar-13 13:38:53

My dad would tell me to sling my hook if I went on at him like that. Quite rightly.

Jayne266 Sat 16-Mar-13 13:40:18

I just wanted to say I understand what your saying.

Unfortunately it sounds like you dad has some issues about your relationship (yours and his) or something he's not telling you for him to react the way he did. However as other people have said by asking him to defer the payment you were asking to essentially borrow the money (unless you were planning on paying double the next month). And borrowed money can bring out some issues in people and he has reacted horribly. Hopefully it was in a "I am worried my daughter needs financial help and she has another on the way and I can't help". Give him time and talk this through and you will know where you stand.

Regards to your mum some people are there own worst enemy. She has chosen this life unfortunately you just have to accept it (and remember this) for when she moans.

I have had some family issues which has made me think my family is my family. If my parents etc show the effort I will do the same otherwise don't expect anything from them and you won't be disappointed.

Good luck with the nursing by the way it sound your on a track to do something you want to do. smile

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 13:44:31

Lyingwitchinthe wardrobe, I'm confused. She's the one that's in a financial situation needing help. She's not asked for a handout but a loan because she couldn't get it herself. What's the problem with that? She's paying him back and asking for one month break on the repayments. To be honest, I can't see the big deal about £70 (I guess that shows I live in my own bubble where £70 isn't a back breaker).
I don't think she has skewed views. I've been self reliant pretty much all my life and have always been the giver and not the taker but when my time came for some help I expected it. It's give and take.
I'm raising my kids to be self sufficient - givers not takers - but I fully expect there to be times when they need a hand to make life a little easier and I would be there 100%.
Her dad's her dad - of course he should help if he can.

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 13:45:14

Ok then OP, what do you think now after all these messages?

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 13:46:47

Oh and if you can borrow the money from somewhere then borrow it (not from those loan shops / sharks though!) and pay your dad back. Better than hearing nasty comments about your unbon.

DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 13:49:30

I don't think the op will be back.

secretofcrickleyhall Sat 16-Mar-13 13:51:21

Never, I think the point is it wasn't "dad, any chance you can help me out?" "'fraid not love," conversation. She went on at him for SIX MONTHS. Can you imagine ...I can't hmm

i definitely want to help my own DC if I could but to be honest if one of them was chewin gmy ear off for six months while planning weekend breaks with their partner, I WOULD be really, really pissed off.

LifeSavedbyLego Sat 16-Mar-13 13:52:10

Sorry you are having a tough time. But no your parents don't owe you anything. You dad doesn't have to take a loan if he doesn't want to and you mum doesn't have too babysit if she doesn't want to. You are an adult, all these things are nice to haves not requirements.

Hope things look up for you soon.

Euphemia Sat 16-Mar-13 13:52:45

It's one of those

YABU (mostly)
YABU (mostly)
YABU (mostly)


You see, I am in 2 minds now. Having learned that you have been given a week's holiday without your dc is very generous. Which will get people's backs up on here when you are also posting saying your dad won't give you what you need. It DOES make you sound entitled. But I doubt many people have experience of caring for an autistic child, ad as well as this you are also studying for a degree to try and improve your lot presumable AND pregnant (the latter, I agree, is awful timing - hope there is a good explanation for that). I can understand why your PIL have made the lovely gesture of recognising that a week away in those circumstances might relieve some of your stress.

You have a lot on your plate, OP, and I'm not hearing much sympathy here for that. I think you would probably get better responses on the special needs boards to be honest. I really think that in families it should be give and take and helping each other out in times of need. Posters on here should remember that one day circumstances may be reversed and it might be the OP's parents coming to HER for help when she has finally got her career off the ground. Will she feel inclined to do so if she's not been helped in HER (presumably temporary) hour of need?

The other side of me wonders if there might be more to the situation. Why is your dp's credit rating so bad? Is there some financial mismanagement of money that you aren't telling us about, which would explain your dad's unwillingness to help in the first place?

DontmindifIdo Sat 16-Mar-13 13:58:38

I don't think parents shouldn't help their DCs, but the OPs parents have - her dad has taken out a loan on her behalf because she couldn't get one, she has to pay it back as if she would if she'd taken it out herself - although she claims her dad is rich, the fact he took out a loan rather than directly loaned her the money suggests he doesn't have stacks of savings (most people in that situation would use savings rather than have a loan in their name), she assumes she knows exactly what he earns and what his outgoings are so he can afford to just give her £70 this month. I wouldn't be so sure.

I would assume it took you 6 months to wear him down to agree because he thought you'd do this - he knew what you were like and thought there's a good chance you won't pay the loan. I would imagine you have 'form' for being crap at paying back debts if your credit rating was so bad he had to take out the loan in the first place. Have you got a history of just not paying things back and expecting it'll sort itself out? That someone else will pick up the tab eventually and you shouldn't have to pay your debts? This is your debt, not your dads. You don't owe your dad, you owe the bank he borrowed the money from.

Could his comment about the baby, while horrible, come from a genuine concern that you and DP don't seem to be able to cope financially with one DC and really not understanding why someone in such a situation would decide to have another?

Next your mother - you asked her to look after your DC so you can go on holiday, but you're angry she's not available to do so because she's going on holiday with someone you don't like, but she does, she's an adult, it doesn't read like she said she would have your DS, let you book the holiday then said no, she said no as soon as you told her about the dates as they clash with her holiday, did you really think she should cancel her trip as yours is more important?

I find it very hard to believe your PIL bought you a holiday with no discussion with you first, you haven't got any spare money (if you can't find £70 to repair your car, you can't have any savings), you are pregnant again, but rather than saying "actually we're really struggling, it's nice of you to offer the holiday, but could we have the money instead?" you and your DP said yes to the holiday - a holiday which is just for you two, not your DC, and they are only offering free childcare for some of the holiday they have bought you, but knowing you can't afford to pay for childcare for the rest and the only alternative is your mother, yet no one thought to check the dates with your mum before booking it.

Can you not see you should have said no? Or at very least checked your mum could actually do these dates before anything was booked?

I really think families should help, but there comes a point when really, you have to be prepared to help yourself at least a little bit. OP, you come across as expecting your parents to fit round what you want, you want your dad to just give you a car and are annoyed he expects you to pay for it, you want your mum to just be available to do childcare the way you want when you want, without daring to have plans and a life of her own.

For the trip, if you can't cancel and get the money back (which I would strongly recommend you do, having at least a couple of hundred quid saved might make the world of difference to your life), then talk to your PIL, they booked the holiday without having confirmation there was childcare in place first, why can't they do the whole time? Or are they being equally annoying and having a life too...

Goldenbear Sat 16-Mar-13 13:59:39

I agree with Nevertoolate26, I also think some posters are distasteful with some of their comments and very aggressive- as per usual really.

I don't really see why the OP is wrong to moan about the trials and tribulations of being a parent but it is fine for her parents to be pretty shit really because she is over 18- not exactly demonstrating great parenting roles there, unless of course you do believe that your role as a parent ends at 18. Personally I don't and my parents' didn't, they wouldn't dream of detaching themselves from me in such a cold and callous way. It is not normal family behaviour.

Equally, if you hold the opinion that the OP is an adult and as such should take responsibility for her predicament, why are you not holding the same opinion of the parents. Posters are being very charitable towards the parents- apparently the Mother is a victim and the poor harangued father was bullied into it by his overbearing daughter. Pull the other one - anyone who can say such vile words to their own daughter FFS, whom by all accounts spent lots of his time drinking around her when she was a child, seems quite capable of sticking up for himself!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 16-Mar-13 14:02:33

DontMindIfIDo... Exactly so!

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 14:03:01

secretofcricklyhall I think if you saw your Dc was getting on with their life you'd want to help them immediately and not allow them to go on at you for 6 months. If someone said 'no' to me if I asked for help then I'd drop it, leave it at that but remember it for the future.
It works both ways - like I said, unless the OP is a totally nasty person, I'm sure she would remember the kindness of her dad when the day came for him to ask her for help. If her mum said she needed some help, I'm pretty sure the OP wouldn't ask her to wait 6 months before helping her out. Well, that's what I think anyway.

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 14:10:22

the posters who have jumped at the holiday she's taking, perhaps her parentsinlaw couldn't take it themselves and then offered it to her. Hence the two adults.
Really, picture the situation. She has an autistic son. She, for whatever reason, can't get help from her OH, and she's pregnant. She could be whingeing about her lot in life and leave it at that. Instead, she's going to courses to do a nursing course. Not to become an accountant, businessperson,... a nursing course. I think she sounds like someone who's had it tough but is still trying away to better things. and asking for some help from her family, gosh, for crying out loud, she's not asking them to pay her rent / mortgage /...
As for the credit rating... I've never taken out loans, always paid bills on time, very, very rarely buy on my credit card which was taken out last year... I expected my credit rating to be amazing. Shock of my life when it wasn't!

countrykitten Sat 16-Mar-13 14:22:27

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DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 14:25:46

Secret its not even a weekend away, its a week ! A week the op feels she is very entitled to. Don't think she realizes that there are so many people who don't even get an hours break.

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 14:28:38

Not goading countrykitten, but would all of those points have applied if she was 16 and pregnant?

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 14:30:20

Deskplanner - how do you know when she last had a holiday? I've not had one for 8 years. But I don't begrudge the OP for a chance to recharge her batteries. If someone gave you a week's holiday just for you and your OH what would you do? Try and find a way to go or turn it down flat?

Allthumbs Sat 16-Mar-13 14:33:39

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countrykitten Sat 16-Mar-13 14:44:03

16 is a child - this person is an adult who has her own family already. Very different situation.

Really? Just how old IS the OP?

DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 15:20:39

never If the op hasn't had a holiday for a long time, then the chances are her 4 year old hasn't either. She could have suggested taking her 4 year old on holiday with her and her dh for a weekend break, rather than a weeks holiday for just her and her dh. Probably cost less.
Even if the holiday that has been bought for her is at an all inclusive, she would need some spends, wouldn't she ? Yet she can't pay her dad only £70.
This is AIBU, so I'm allowed to say that I think she IBU, if I want. Think I will leave this thread anyway, there's no point as op clearly isn't coming back.

countrykitten Sat 16-Mar-13 15:23:33

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DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 15:23:58

never, just noticed you asked me what I'd do if offered a weeks free holiday. Well yes, to be honest I would turn it down flat. There's no way I want to be away from my dc for a week. Each to there own, but you asked me what I would do.

im not speaking to my father over not letting me take one months break for a car loan, its for saying my his next grandchild is a mistake and i should get rid of it!..my suggestion for a loan as it made everything above board and gave me a time to pay every month! My dad originally wanted to take out of a credit card but i looked into it and found the apr was higher. When my father came over for a work meeting and saw what i had to deal with thats what changed his mind! im lucky if i see him twice a year!
The repairs weren't 70 quid they were actually 340 initially, i wanted to take a bit of the pressure off by taking one months break from the loan.
Apparently my mun told a friend the last holiday she went on with the man it ended up in both of them covered in scratches from fighting, so imagine my suprise when she said she was doing it all over again.
My pregnancy was a suprise, im making allowances amd getting on with it, not that its ANYBODYS buisness and im stunned that any of you have the gall to make comment on it!
My partner was stupid in his early twenties and ruined his credit rating..call me crazy but its not something you ask about when you 1st fall for someone! "yes i think i love you but whats your credit rating like" dont think so somehow!!
Can i just add i have never came across so many judgemental people in all my life! talk about being kicked when your down!

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 15:27:53

Deskplanner - I wasn't trying to be horrid, sorry if I was. I don't even know how a holiday works anymore - not been on one for ages. And being as tight as I am probably wouldn't need any spends!
I don't have an autistic child but I read on here how it's tough. I saw it as a way she could recharge her batteries and come back and be an even better mum. Don't some people come back refreshed? Personally, I would never leave my little ones (too overprotective?) but I can't begrudge anyone else who it works for.

Paribus Sat 16-Mar-13 15:28:39

OP, YANBU. It's normal for families to help each other, especially considering that you are pregnant and have a child with SN. Your father was very, very unreasonable and I think he owes you an apology for what he said.
On a side note- I am always amazed when posters starts talking about no one owing anything to anybody in the families- is it a general consensus in the UK? I am an expat so I really don't know, but it sounds so cold and uncaring sad.

I cant take my child on holiday, he doesn't respond well to his routine being broken, we tried to take him to a caravan park before and it resulted in a black eye for me and a busted nose for my partner, we had to come home early amd it was a nighare not a holiday. i wanted someone who he knows and i trust to look after him in his own home! What a terrible person i am for wanting to take up the oppertunity of a break and for my parents to give me some support when i really needed it!!! But then again thats something that spoilt people expect isn't it!

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 15:32:46

mummysgoingmad - hey not everyone's kicking you when you're down. Only you know what's going on in your situation. None of it is anybody's business. You came on this thread expecting some support and tlc... well, welcome!
I know about the partner and bad credit rating thing - been there.
As I've said, congrats on the pregnancy and the degree - hope it all works out. Concentrate on yourself and your immediate family. You've seen how unsupportive the people you expected to be supportive are, just don't rely on them again.
Hope things all work out for you.

Dannilion Sat 16-Mar-13 15:34:58

What dontmindifido said. Also, being a student nurse doesn't stop from from getting loans/mortgages/credit cards etc. Your previous attitude towards your debts does.

As for the judgemental comment, isn't that what AIBU is all about? You come here asking for judgement..

Smartiepants79 Sat 16-Mar-13 15:35:00

Sadly this is not the place to post if you don't want to be judged!
For what it's worth i think you are not being unreasonable to hope from some help from your immediate family.
I know I would.
If they can help one child they should help all I my opinion. It is relevant because it makes you feel less important.
Only you know whether or not you are likely to get it.
I would keep you son away from this man your mother is seeing as he sounds like bad news.
I hope things get a bit easier for you.

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 15:36:44

Paribus, I'm surprised at the sentiments of the posters on this thread. I'm an expat too and used to be very surprised at some things. I guess it makes sense now - if the parents think that responsibility is over once the children are 18, then little wonder the children have the same sentiment towards their parents. Some areas in the world may be poorer financially but you get the real feeling of family right from the moment you're born to when you die.
It's a shame the OPs parents feel they dont have to help her out during this stressful time of her life. If not now then when?

DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 15:39:25

never didn't think you were being horrible, don't worry. grin I couldn't leave my dc either, but that's me certainly being precious about them. Haven't got anyone to have them for a week even if I wanted to. Wouldn't judge anyone who did though, unless there dc weren't getting a holiday too.
An evening out on the other hand, I could go for. Must be coming up for a year since I had an evening out with dh. Ho hum....

Smartiepants79 Sat 16-Mar-13 15:40:13

paribus no , not all families are like this.
Both mine and my OH family would do everything they could to help in bad situations.
It's what you do for people you love.
If they ever said they couldn't help then I would know it was truly because they can't.

DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 15:41:36

Sorry my english was terrible in that last post.

witchface Sat 16-Mar-13 15:43:26

This is AIBU people WILL say you are unreasonable. If you bring up your pregnancy people will comment on it. If you speak to your family in the same way you respond to posts in here I am not surprised you got the responses you did.

akaemmafrost Sat 16-Mar-13 15:45:11

I think your parents sound very self centred and I think you've had some real nastiness directed at you on here. I wouldn't try to explain anymore if I were you. You've been judged to be a spoilt brat and you won't change people's minds.

IMO YANBU to ask for help from your own parents and it must be hard to see your brother being helped but financially but your Dad not wanting to help you.

I would pay him his loan back then back off completely, he sounds horrible. Your Mum however is in an abusive relationship and while I wouldn't let look after my ds I would try to have some sympathy. People stuck in those kind of situations aren't thinking straight.

Lastly never post about anything remotely sensitive in AIBU again.

Goldenbear Sat 16-Mar-13 15:48:01

I'm not an expat but have every sympathy with the OP's situation. TBH the opinion of 'family' largely expressed on here- support stops at 18, is a very alien concept to me. It also makes me think how lucky I am to have parents who would never, ever think this was an acceptable attitude to have towards us!

I don't see what is childish about expecting AND giving support to each other within a family.

Thank to the people who asked genuine questions and didnt get personal.
The language some of you have used to describe me is hurtful and some comments come close to online bullying, but the way I respond is disrespectful..whatever love!! I wont be coming back here again! And FWIW i wont be using this site again!!!

nevertoolate26 Sat 16-Mar-13 15:50:00

akaemmafrost I think alot of people post on here when they're stressed and feeling vulnerable and think they'll get some tlc

MerryCouthyMows Sat 16-Mar-13 15:50:18

Deskplanner - 4 years ago, I felt the sane as you. I was offered a week's holiday for free, but turned it down because I couldn't imagine going away without my DC's.

Another 4 years down the line, and it's a different story. I have a 15yo DD with Autism, a 10yo DS1 starting the assessment process for Aspergers, a 9yo DS2 with Autism...and now my 2yo DS3 is in the process of getting an Autism dx.

If someone offered me a week's holiday without my DC's now - I'd bite their arm off. I NEED a rest.

Maybe the OP does too FFS!!

thebody Sat 16-Mar-13 15:58:45

Op, my parents are mad as March hares but would support me any support they could at a moments notice. So would my sister.

I would walk to the ends of the earth for my kids and 2 of them are grown up.

My dds only has to text her brothers and they are there for her in an instant.

I can count on my sils too.

That's what families should do.

I think your parents sound nasty.

You have so much on your plate so good luck.

akaemmafrost Sat 16-Mar-13 16:01:04

I am sure they do, but AIBU seldom goes the way one might expect and it seems that anything goes. If I was feeling remotely fragile I would never post here. It's also hard to get across all the nuances of what's going on in a situation so people post replies at face value and seem to get quite carried away. I'd probably have put this in relationships.

letseatgrandma Sat 16-Mar-13 16:02:25

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akaemmafrost Sat 16-Mar-13 16:02:37

Bloody hell couthy shock I've got two with ASD and I frequently feel on my knees. thanks to you.

DontmindifIdo Sat 16-Mar-13 16:02:45

Goldenbear - I think what's got people's backs up isn't that the OP expects some help, but that it should be entirely on her terms regardless of what else is going on - I can't believe anyone would think it's acceptable that she would a) think the mother should cancel her holiday so that she can babysit for the OP's DS so she can have a holiday (it's not like the OP's mum said no but was going to be at home doing nothing that weekend).

akaemmafrost Sat 16-Mar-13 16:04:01

No don't post anything you're really upset about because if it doesn't go your way you'll feel even more rubbish.

PeachesandStrawberry Sat 16-Mar-13 16:21:29


You seem to have been given a right bashing on here. YANBU to expect some help from your family and your dad shouldn't have said what he said to you.

As for those other people bashing the OP, you do realise that there is a real person and she is probably feeling far worse now.

I don't blame her for leaving the thread.

zwischenzug Sat 16-Mar-13 16:25:51

There are two important things to separate in this situation...

1. Yes, parents should be prepared to help their kids out.

2. No, this does not make it right for a child to expect/demand whatever they want from their parents at any given time.

Note I'm talking about adult kids here, under 18s are different and have a right to expect certain things of their parents.

You do have an entitlement complex, you will find your life less stressful if you get rid of it.

Goldenbear Sat 16-Mar-13 16:38:56

By all accounts it doesn't sound like they were very loving parents to the OP when she was a child. To me she sounds like someone who is desperate for some love off them and rightly comparing her treatment by her father with that of her brothers. I don't know anyone who would be able to accept their sibling being favoured by a parent and be acceptant of that. I don't believe people if they say they're happy to accept such favouritism.

She sounds like she was hoping her Father would show some goodwill rather than she expected anything. Instead, he is vile to her.

zwischenzug Sat 16-Mar-13 16:45:51

My parents have very much financially favoured one of my older siblings - whilst I'm not happy about it at all and it has damaged our relationship, demanding handouts to the same value is not a constructive course of action. You can "accept" favouritism without being happy about it.

Ultimately for my parents it will mean if they need support in their old age, if they ask me then I'll tell them who they need to go to because it ain't coming from me.

beautyfades Sat 16-Mar-13 16:50:11


Goldenbear Sat 16-Mar-13 16:53:50

I disagree- it is more constructive to tell them why you're upset about that given scenario then let the bitterness eat away at you, to the point of Irrevocably damaging your relationship with your parents!

MummytoKatie Sat 16-Mar-13 17:18:33

The thing is that by not paying the loan (which the Op is rather minimising by saying "why can't he give us just one month's grace") she is putting her dad in a difficult position.

The bank isn't going to give him "grace" so he can either default - thus ruining his own credit score or go without something and pay it himself. It may be that what he has to go without is just using tesco's finest champers to fill his bath rather than bolly or it may be that he is going to struggle to eat or heat. And Op doesn't know which it is.

zwischenzug Sat 16-Mar-13 17:32:26

I get where you are coming from but my view is that the damage is already done and any attempt to make up for it would be rather fake and contrived. Having parents who only treat you equally because you told them too doesn't really appeal to me as being any better than having that underlying resentment that your other sibling(s) are treated better.

pigletpower Sat 16-Mar-13 18:24:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chickydoo Sat 16-Mar-13 18:27:08

You are an adult, why do you expect your parents to help you still.
Grow up!

Goldenbear Sat 16-Mar-13 18:55:04

chickydoo, quite a few posters have explained that receiving support from YOUR FAMILY is not an idea out of leftfield. A revelation for you- even adults sometimes help each other out, it is called being kind!

DeskPlanner Sat 16-Mar-13 19:21:52

I'm sorry if anything I said caused you upset thanks , that wasn't my intention. I don't know what its like to be in your position with regards to looking after your son. So I will keep my mouth shut.
I do think YANU about not paying for the car though. Your dad does sound horrible to say that to you. Good Luck with the course. I had friends who got pregnant whilst doing nursing courses, its hard.

countrykitten Sat 16-Mar-13 19:23:55

pigletpower that is a really vile post.

pigletpower Sat 16-Mar-13 19:53:26

I apologise for my previous post,I am ashamed and reported myself.I suppose something hit a personal button.I will hide this thread.

RoseandVioletCreams Sat 16-Mar-13 20:51:54

I think you dad sounds like an extremly nasty peice of work and if my DC want a bloody car I would try my best to help them should they need it - and if they wanted to defer ONE PAYMENT due to unforseen circs I would also allow them, if i could afford, if i couldnt I would try and find a mutual soloution.

A family loan for gods sake that you are paying back and everyones on your back!

Sounds like you have had a tough time with your family, please ignore the other posters, give yourself a big hug!

OrWellyAnn Sat 16-Mar-13 21:56:41

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cumfy Sat 16-Mar-13 22:00:45

Your parents are clearly dysfunctional.
But you are going that way too, a little.

You are not "entitled"; you are getting bogged down in the backbiting, firefighting, he-says-she-says, of it all.

Try and find somewhere to breathe and gain a broader perspective of what is happening and escape the swarm of minutaie that is dominating your life and destabilising your mind.

Having a car is not the problem.
You really need to stand back and try and understand yourself and your situation.

RoseandVioletCreams Sat 16-Mar-13 22:02:09

op, some of these posters sound like my DB, he is scathing when he see's DC being spoilt ( as he calls it) by thier parents, even in the smallest way as he is an extremly bitter person.

another friend also said he felt angry when he saw what he called naughty Dc being " indgulged" in a resturant by a parent reasoining with them etc, he said he realised he did this because he wouldnt have been indulged but given a clip round hte ear and it was simply jealousy speaking and he was projecting about his own childhood.

thankfully my enlightened freind can recognise this in himself, not so my DB who is biiter and nasty about anyone receiveng what he thinks he didnt.

mrsbunnylove Sat 16-Mar-13 22:05:44

as usual, i've read the first post and not the rest...
“My father took out a loan so I could buy the car (this took 6 solid months of begging and finally my brothers had a word. he can afford to help as he has a very good job working off shore)… I thought I would try and appeal to his better nature and I asked him if I could defer on this month’s payment …

I asked her to watch my son for me in my house as me and my partner are planning on going on a trip away together…

I feel like I want to cease all contact with them both.”

do it. cease contact with them. they can only be glad.
you feel entitled to your father's salary. you feel entitled to your mother's time.
you need to adopt a more mature attitude.

RoseandVioletCreams Sat 16-Mar-13 22:13:38

" I am currently attempting to gain my degree in nursing."

She is working to better herself isnt she and hopefully wont need loans in future she isnt sat doing nothing.

She is helping herself and asking for a tiny bit of help - to help her help herself. What in gods name in wrong with that?

" don?t even start me on your that (meaning the pregnancy) it?s a fucking mistake and if I was you I would get rid of it!? #"

Appalling disgusting comment - sounds like he doesnt like the first child, embarrased maybe who knows. Vile - abohorrent comment.

"My brother and I traveled the 86 miles to remove him from her home and make sure she was ok. After this my aunties and he friends began to tell me other things this man had done for example, screaming in my son?s face (he hates loud noises and get really distraught) pinning my mum by the throat to a wall, the list is endless really."

she travelled to help her mother - with a cleary dispicable human she has got herself entangled with. Her mother has lied to her and placed a vulnerable young man her grandson in the path of someone out of control and abusive.

Really strange what some people focus on in the ops story.

I am surpised no one has come on and just gone mad at her for the ?




AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 22:21:39

You can't account for/discredit the posters who think the OP is being unreasonable Rose, by generalising how your brother is.

I wasn't being bitter, angry, jealous or nasty posting my opinion of what the OP had chosen to write.

I thought she wanted to know.

My homelife was relatively happy and secure as a child, and I don't treat my DDs to draconian discipline, (aside from locking them in the coal shed when they're interrupting my MNing) so I wasn't saying it because I was unhappy with my lot.

I do feel for the OP because she's in a situation which would bring many of us down, but she doesn't seem to do herself any favours.

RoseandVioletCreams Sat 16-Mar-13 22:26:11

it takes time to un tangle yourself from a family like this agent and this op is twenty weeks pregnant, no need for some of the vile posts.

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Mar-13 22:45:30

There's no need for any nasty posts full stop Rose, and I agree it's difficult to shake off what you had to go through as a child, but pointing out to the OP the parts of her thinking which would be taken as generally unreasonable expectations of what parents owe their children, isn't a character assassination of her.

Her answers from the start of the thread show she's not open to changing the way she thinks at the minute, and of course she doesn't have to, but there's no getting away from the fact that the truth can hurt sometimes.

Goldenbear Sun 17-Mar-13 04:42:02

Agent, she is canvassing opinions on whether she should basically cut contact with her parents, I along with others think she has some very valid reasons to do so. As such it is not accurate to suggest that the 'truth hurts'- your perspective, along with others who do not judge her favourably does not amount to the truth, it is just YOUR opinion.

Cumfy, I'm not really sure how labelling the OP as dysfunctional is helpful at all. Her parents- yes, her - no. Your post is very patronising. She has valid grievances that she wants answers for, that does not make her the same as them.

Ilovexmastime Sun 17-Mar-13 09:47:04

 I had to ask for the car loan as i got refused, my sons behavior was getting worse and if he didn't want to go somewhere he would lay down on the ground and refuse to move, rain, hail, snow the lot. It got so bad i ended putting my back out trying to carry him home and i routinely got my hair ripped out and punch in the face.

The lack of empathy on this board from some posters is astounding. I know it's AIBU but still. Can you not imagine having to deal with the above day in day out, whilst pregnant? To be at the end of your tether, with no one to turn to expect the father who you barely saw while you were growing up, apart from when he was home from the rigs, drunk? The father who is happy to help his son out, more than once? Who earns a better than good wage?
The way I read it, the OP didn't want to ask her father for help but felt she had no choice, and I don't blame her.

simplesusan Sun 17-Mar-13 10:25:58

Op you are nbu in wanting help from your parents.

I hope I am more supportive towards my dcs when they are older.

However you have to face the facts. They are as they are, not supportive.

I wouldn't dream of asking either my parents or my pil to help out with car maintenance. My pil look after their daughter's children a lot more than they do ours. She has a dh and they have gone away for weekends far more than us because they get help with babysitting. This has drove my dh mad he has challenged them about it but guess what? Nothing has changed.

Agentzigzag was right, not all parents treat their dcs equally. My pil gave us nothing towards the cost of our wedding, even the wedding present was merley on a par with what other wedding guests bought us. Fine, except that they along with bil's parents, paid for their daughter's entire wedding!

All you can do is accept that they are what they are and vow that you will not be as crap with your own children and make sure that you treat them equally.

crashdoll Sun 17-Mar-13 10:31:54

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 10:41:07

it all sounds very tiresome, OP, but i think what you're wishing for is what you haven't got... nice, supportive parents. i don't think it's unreasonable for you to expect them to treat you and your brothers equally, but you wouldn't be the first family to have less-favoured children. it's just a shame, you totally sound like you could do with a break. i'm wondering if the stately homes thread would be a kinder place for you to hang out while you process all this?

WinkyWinkola Sun 17-Mar-13 11:18:34

Your dad sounds vile. I wouldn't want to be beholden to such a person.

Your mum is in a tricky situation. Up to her neck in it actually but she's an adult.

I would never ask for help from either of these two people again, frankly.

Are you certain you are getting all the state benefits you are allowed to have?

Congratulations on studying to be a nurse as well. You're doing amazingly well considering what you have on your plate.

MyDarlingClementine Sun 17-Mar-13 11:27:21

yes don't be beholden to such people.
you have the car, keep paying the loan you have that at least and really lower your expectations in future.
and no your not the first to have parents who treat you differently, my DH DP treat him vastly differnetly to his DSIS.
she spends every weekend back at the family home, she can come and go as she pleases, he isnt even allowed a key.
to be fair they do help them both out a tiny bit financially BUT to my DH its because its he is a useless looser - to his DSIS its because she is so clever and just needs a little bonus!

Tuppence2 Sun 17-Mar-13 12:42:47

I don't understand why the op spent 6 months begging her abusive/alcoholic father to help her? It doesn't sound like he'd helped her before.

And I say this as my father's youngest child who he has very little contact with. I would never ask him for such a big favour. The last time we spoke, I asked my father if I could borrow £10 until payday (1 week away) his response was "you only ring me when you want something" and I said, "at least I ring you" and, funnily enough, he has never rang me since (over 5 years ago)

janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 12:47:51

I don't think anyone is denying you have a lot on your plate, but what screams out at me from this thread is that you are displaying exactly the same type of behaviour which you are accusing your parents of, which makes it difficult to place all the blame on them.

What your father said about your pregnancy is totally out of order, and I want to be clear I am not making excuses, but I suspect it is borne out of assumptions that he is making about your situation - ie that you and your partner are irresponsible for conceiving while claiming to have no money and already having a challenging child and with you retraining. Now- YOUR perspective isnt the same as that, which hurts and upsets you

But can't you see that you are doing exactly the same thing to your parents: making assumptions about your fathers income and outgoings and whether he can afford to loan you money, making assumptions about your mothers 'duty' to provide childcare so you can go on a weeks holiday....

Clearly you feel very hard done by and that your parents should behave how you would like them to. However, they are adults with their own narrative and this is one of those situations where if they were to post here they would no doubt be telling us a different version

A couple of other points: approaching your father for money if you felt desperate is one thing. Nagging and pushing for 6 months is totally unacceptable and makes you sound like a brattish entitlled child not an adult.

Also- you say your holiday was a Xmas present from your partners parents, and that they are looking after your son for half the week and you want your mum to do the other half. Was this the arrangement when the present was given? It seems very odd to give a present which assumes (that word again!) that a third party will be able and willing to chip in with childcare..... Is it possible to reorganise so you go away for just half a week while your partners parents do childcare? After all, it's still more than many parents get. I don't think it's at all fair to blame your mum for not being able or agreeable to provide childcare as a result of someone else's Xmas present.

Ultimately, this is your life, your children are yours and their fathers responsibility- no one else chose to have kids for you both. And financing your life as an adult is your responsibility too

I empathise with the fact that you have a challenging child with SN but that doesn't change the fundamental issue that you are expecting things from your parents which you have no automatic right to assume

dikkertjedap Sun 17-Mar-13 12:50:56

OP- It looks that you have a hard childhood yourself and now you are having a hard time as a parent with a young child.

Being a parent is not easy at the best of times, but being a parent with little money and no support network to speak of is so much more difficult.

In future, I would not post on Mumsnet if I were you. Many MN are very entitled in their own way - many of them are a sorry lot as several other threads show such as
- questioning whether there is poverty in the UK
- thinking that aid to developing countries should be reconsidered
- thinking that children from illegal immigrants should only have access to emergency care but not standard healthcare

I don't think that you are entitled expecting your family to help. But I am from a very different culture, where families do help each other. The same for my DH.

The Mumsnet community (if you can call it a community) is quite unique in the sense that the prevailing view seems that anybody who expects anything from their family is entitled. It is a very sad view of family life, and probably quite a few of these same posters who call you entitled will have had lots of support from their families, but they just don't like others to get the same. No doubt there will also be posters who have had no help at all and think that that is the norm, only God knows how they behave towards their own children when they reach 18.

Most civilised people would be horrified by some of the stuff spouted on Mumsnet. So my first piece of advice to you:

NEVER EVER ASK FOR SUPPORT ON MUMSNET, you only risk being trodden upon when you are down, so just don't do it, go for a walk, do other things, but don't go on Mumsnet. The majority of posters will have no inclination at all to support you as you do not fit in their world view of how things should be.

However, it is very important that you seek help in the Real World. You need to get a plan together, including support dealing with your son and if your study is too much, maybe see if it can be spread out over an extra year or so, to make it more manageable. At your university/college there may be a support officer you could speak to. Your problems won't be solved overnight, but just having a clear plan with small do-able steps will probably already help a lot. Don't spend time on Mumsnet as it is unlikely to help you and more likely to get you further down, that is the least of all things you need at present. Build in some small rewards for yourself (and dh who should ideally be involved in this all) when you achieve your objectives.

OP what you need is belief in yourself and the confidence to seek the help you need. YOU CAN DO IT! smile

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 12:56:42

For someone who clearly doesn't like MN dikker, that's a very long post.

You're wrong about asking for support from the posters on here, it's one of the things MN does best.

dikkertjedap Sun 17-Mar-13 13:01:52

The majority of MN like to support a certain type of MN, eg. a bit like themselves. It is clear that OP does not fall into this category.

Therefore, OP has nothing to gain here and if anything it can push her down even further. OP needs support. The majority of posters on this thread are not supporting OP.

dikkertjedap Sun 17-Mar-13 13:02:59

I don't like people to be kicked when they are down ...

ShellyBoobs Sun 17-Mar-13 13:09:00

[Mumsnet] is quite unique in the sense that the prevailing view seems that anybody who expects anything from their family is entitled.

It's not unique at all.

Many, many people outside of MN would also think it's entitled to expect help from family, too.

It's nice to have help, I'm sure, but it simply is entitled to expect it if it's not offered.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 13:10:54

i think a lot of what dikker says is true of this thread, unfortunately.

janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 13:15:15

I think weve got the message loud and clear that you don't like mumsnet dikker!

I also think that it's often spouted that families who don't lend money, gift money as house deposits and provide a free childminding service for their adult kids are 'unloving and uncaring'

That's bollocks. It's about mutual respect. I have a loving and close relationship with my parents but i wouldn't dream of assuming they would look after my children for a week so I could have a holiday, let alone the day to say care some adults expect to be given for free. As for nagging my father for 6 months for a car loan - well, words fail me..

The op may not have had the best parenting in the world, but she is now guilty of exactly the same things she's accusing her parents of! That's the irony. She's stamping her feet because she can't get them to do what she wants

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 13:15:24

There are so many different subjects in the OP that it just wouldn't be possible for all the posters answering to agree on every single one dikkert.

She wanted to know whether her mum and dad were unreasonable in denying her what she wanted from them, some said yes.

I can't see how that equals only supporting a certain type of person.

People have written their posts picking up bits which they've experienced in their own lives or that they have strong feelings about, what are you expecting them to post about? Just giving 'there, there, it'll all blow over if you ignore them' answers, doesn't sound very supportive to me.

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 13:18:57

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 13:19:42

nor does calling her entitled and spoilt, though. the poor woman has a shitload to deal with, and seems to be doing pretty well on it. her dad absolutely could have let £70 slide without slagging off her pregnancy, anyone's dad could.

this is really the wrong place on MN to have posted, i feel. there is loads of support out there, but on AIBU people really relish putting the boot in.

DontmindifIdo Sun 17-Mar-13 13:20:15

I'm still struggling to see what the OP's mum did wrong. Why are people suggesting the OP has nothing more to do with her mum? as I understand it, the OP's parents are separated so it's not like she had any control over the dad loan. The OP wants her mum to babysit so she can go away but her mum already has her own holiday booked. It's not like she's said she'll never babysit the OP's DS, just she's not prepared to cancel her own holiday to do it.

I can see if you have as much on your plate as the OP has you might not think to check the dates with your mum, particularly if you are used to her not going away a lot/having plans that can't be cancelled, but the fact the OP's mum is not available and the OP didn't check this before booking the holiday is clearly not the mum's fault. Does anyone really think the mum is out of order for not cancelling her holiday??? Why can't the PIL cancel their plans as they helped create this situation by buying a holiday without checking there was childcare in place.

OP - in those 6 months of nagging your dad, did you ask anyone else to take out a loan for your car for you? Your brother who was also nagging your dad? Your Mum? Your PIL? Do they all have such bad credit ratings they couldn't get a car loan or was it more that none of them could afford to subsidise you if you wanted to miss payments? Why was getting your dad to get the loan the only option? (Or was he the only option when you thought that it would be optional to pay it back or not, whereas PIL, Mum, DB etc clearly couldn't afford you not to pay)

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 13:20:32

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AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 13:42:37

Sulking and tantruming is manipulating behaviour Aitch, why would I not say it if that's what I thought?

If it was someones DP I'd say the same, they're trying to make people feel bad so they do as they're told and think twice the next time they have something to say.

I don't like it in RL either.

And why would I want to put the boot in? I don't know the OP from Adam and I'm certainly don't get a kick out of making randoms on the internet upset.

That'd be creepy and a bit sinister.

AnneElliott Sun 17-Mar-13 13:43:16

Op I don't think you are being unreasonable and I think you have had a very hard time here but that it AIBU!
I would suggest not asking them for help in future as you will be disappointed. Just remember that when they are old point them in the direction of your brother and remind them they are entitled should they ask you for help.

janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 13:45:11

OP- when you kept on at your father for six months to take out a loan to buy you a car, you showed a total lack of respect for him, and his rights. You are now complaining at his lack of respect for you, in what he said about your pregnancy. Do you not see the irony? What he said was horrible- but so is pressurising someone into lending you money.

Nagging and whining is Unattractive in a 3 year

janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 13:48:36

3 year old- but understandable because of their age. It's disrespectful and unpleasant in a teenager , but in a fully grown adult ...

And how do you know the ins and outs of your fathers finances anyway? He may have debts of his own. The fact he needed to take a loan out rather than have the money to hand suggests he's not got loads of cash lying around. The fact is- there may be parts of his life you know nothing about, yet you are assuming that he has endless cash to bankroll your life. Just as you are assuming that your mum will be available when it suits you so you can have a weeks holiday

Snog Sun 17-Mar-13 13:52:14

I agree with Anneelliott

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 13:53:23

tbh i wonder how many people on this thread actually come from normal, functioning families themselves... if you had a grandchild with autism, who needed a lot of running around, and your daughter was pregnant and doing her best to complete nursing studies... you wouldn't let £70 slide without giving her a mouthful?

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 13:58:11

How many families do you know which are 'normal' and fully functioning in every sense of the word Aitch?

It's an illusion, they don't exist.

And trying to discredit posters by suggesting they're just fucked up because of their own parents, is pretty crap and low.

Howsaboutthat Sun 17-Mar-13 13:58:30

If I was short of cash one month for an emergency then I would ask my parents after having exhausted all other avenues of paid for loans if there was any chance they could lend it to me if they said yes I would be very grateful and pay it back at the earliest opportunity. If they said no I wouldn't nag and nag, because I know they've said no because they can't for whatever reason (and no reason is required from them).

If I wanted my parents to look after my kids one month then I would ask them after having exhausted all other avenues of paid for childcare, if there was any chance that they could look after the kids if they said yes I would be very grateful and be round with a small gift on collection of the children. If they said no I wouldn't nag and nag, because I know they've said no because they can't for whatever reason (and no reason is required from them).

These are my parents I love them dearly they love me dearly and I have a very close relationship with them BUT they are not a bank nor a childminder.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 14:03:02

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janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 14:07:34

Well said agent zigzag

Families come in all shapes, sizes and shades of grey, and trying to make out that it's a black and white issue with one camp of grandparents who bankroll their adult children and act as free childminders because they love and care about them, and one camp of grandparents who expect their adult children to finance their own lives because they are unloving and uncaring is just utter claptrap

There could be all sorts of reasons unknown to the op why her father didnt feel able to lend the money. But rather than respect him as a fellow adult she Begged and nagged which is an awful way to behave. And now she's stamping her foot because he's not happy for her to default on a loan he didn't even want to make in the first place!

OP- where is your partner in all of this? What is he doing to support his children? Why are you focusing everything on your parents when they didn't decide to have your children?

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 14:09:11

I suggested the SN boards and Stately Homes threads to her as well Aitch, is that a non-fucked up bit of me because it's agreeing with you?

I've shown her sympathy as well, was that 'normal' and 'functioning' enough for you? Totally down to my own upbringing you understand.

I've not insulted the OP, I've told her what I think in a polite way, which is what she posted the thread for.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 14:10:12

Stately Homes thread, OP, and quick. No-one's even read your posts here, by the sounds of it. smile

cumfy Sun 17-Mar-13 14:10:15

I think one of the interesting things about this thread is that the raw posting style and reverse chronology isn't casting the OP in the best light.

An experienced MNer would have frontloaded the post with the very negative background and for instance, offset the car loan against the context of the total cash DB had received, without details.

OP would then receive overwhelming support.

Basically, the principal reason the OP is being slated (to the extent that she is) is naive presentation.

Hissy Sun 17-Mar-13 14:11:16

I think (if the OP is still here that is) that she has made a couple of fundamental mistakes.

the first one being posting on AIBU. Sadly there are some on here who I seriously wonder about. What ARE these Keyboard Warriors like in RL? hmm

The other mistake was thinking that her parents would do anything any differently to how they have always done it. Selfishly.

Yes to the posters that suggested Stately Homes.

OP, you have piss poor parents and they won't be there for you. you will do better without them in your life to be honest.

A normal parent would help their child out, unquestioningly. But sadly the OP doesn't have normal parents. Asking them nicely is not going to work, it invites them to judge and shit all over her, proffering their vile opinions, and showing them that they are NOT there for her in any way shape or form.

OP wants on some level to be loved, accepted and treated as her brothers are. That is not going to happen. She's not the golden child. She is the scapegoat.

OP, if you are still here, make your own way, you can do it and it really will be worth the effort.

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 14:12:28

Now you're implying posters disagreeing with you haven't read the OP or her posts Aitch.


I've read them and made up my own mind, why don't you feel comfortable with that?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 14:12:34

AgentZigzag, if you're happy with the way you've spoken to the OP, then cool. Nothing I can do about that.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 14:13:53

excellent posts by hissy and cumfy. do hope the OP receives support elsewhere.

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 14:15:50

I'm completely happy with what I've said Aitch.

WinkyWinkola Sun 17-Mar-13 14:20:13

Keyboard Warriors! Love it. grinBet they don't see boo to any geese in RL.

FasterStronger Sun 17-Mar-13 14:20:31

we don't get any us time

welcome to begin a grown up!

your partner needs to do more. not your parents. unless you are a child.

Wow, Agent ZigZag, I feel sorry for you. You think that normal and fully functioning families don't exist and are an illusion? You have a pretty skewed view of families, then, is all I can say.

My own family is "normal and fully functioning", as are most of the families that I count amongst my friends. I do know of some very very dysfunctional families and feel terribly sad for them. It had certainly made me appreciate the supportive and loving environment that I've been brought up in.

janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 14:21:44

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AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 14:25:22

good lord, what a reaction. If you're happy with what you've said, then don't have a go at me.

crashdoll Sun 17-Mar-13 14:26:18

I've noticed that in threads where it gets a bit heated, one or two come on and accuse MN of being bullies or similar. hmm This is not a support board as such, this is AIBU. There is plenty of support to be had. OP, you asked if you were being unreasonable and got told by some that they think IN THEIR OPINION that you are. You disagree, so why did you post here? If you're looking for support, you will find it on MN but probably not on AIBU.

FasterStronger Sun 17-Mar-13 14:27:14

aitch but you reacted to what others said, now you don't like others commenting on your posts.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 14:28:51

how so?

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Mar-13 14:29:40

Hahahaha at 'Wow, Agent ZigZag, I feel sorry for you.' grin


The posters saying the OP should have unquestioning support and that having crap parents means you get to behave however you like, are getting a bit shirty about it.

Why is it so important to you for everyone to agree with you?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 17-Mar-13 14:31:43

but where has anyone said anything like that, AZ?

janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 14:32:52

There's a huge spectrum of what is considered 'functional' anyway

if I asked my parents for money and they declined, I wouldn't nag and keep on for 6 months, because that would make me disrespectful, not them dysfunctional. I repeat: there may be all sorts of reasons unbeknown to the OP why her father did not want to take out a loan. He may have his own debts she knows nothing about. Ditto with her mothers life. I too would be very concerned if my mother got back with a previously violent partner. But frankly, uppermost in my mind would be concern for her well being. Not the fact that her holiday with him would mean she wasn't on tap to provide childcare for my holiday

FasterStronger Sun 17-Mar-13 14:34:15

janey68 uppermost in my mind would be concern for her well being. Not the fact that her holiday with him would mean she wasn't on tap to provide childcare for my holiday


BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Mar-13 14:36:42


"An experienced MNer would have frontloaded the post with the very negative background and for instance, offset the car loan against the context of the total cash DB had received, without details.

OP would then receive overwhelming support."

Thats when posters get accused of picking apart thge thread and dwelling on details.

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 17-Mar-13 15:41:48


I've noticed that in threads where it gets a bit heated, one or two come on and accuse MN of being bullies or similar. hmm This is not a support board as such, this is AIBU. There is plenty of support to be had. OP, you asked if you were being unreasonable and got told by some that they think IN THEIR OPINION that you are. You disagree, so why did you post here? If you're looking for support, you will find it on MN but probably not on AIBU.


Just wanted to do two things: first, link to the old Guidelines and remind you all about the rules, especially those about personal attacks.

Second: while AIBU is a place to canvass opinion, it is not a fight club. Our broad philosophy is that if there's one thing all parents could do with, it's a bit of support - and that goes in AIBU as much as it does anywhere else. We understand that there are other areas of MN which are more explicitly supportive, but that's not to say that we don't hope posters can find support in AIBU too, even if some people do think they're being unreasonable.

crashdoll Sun 17-Mar-13 18:21:24

Rowan I think I was too black and white and a bit unfair. The OP has been attacked and called names, which is not on. BUT I just get the impression that some people see "support" as everyone agreeing with them and patting them on the head. OP got some contructive advice even from those who disagreed with her. I obviously do not condone attacks (of which there were some on here) but it really grinds my gears when people accuse MNers as a whole as being mean, nasty so and sos.

Firstly i dont expect anything from anyone! Everybody else could see what i had on my plate my father never visits therefore couldn't see what i was going through. both my brothers had a word because they could, i didnt ask them and i didnt say i nagged him for 6 months own my own my family as a collection did, including my mum. we asked my partners parents but they were unable to help at that time before i or they are called unhelpful names, my pil got money back from a ppi and that how they were able to give us a holiday i got the car over a year ago. they had spoken to my mum who agreed to half the childcare. when they told about the holiday just before xmas i called my mum all excited, thats when i learned that not only was the scumbag on the scene, he had also won money in a bet and had booked a holiday for them both. I have very recently learned that this man has never left, even when she put him out and we moved her 76 miles across the county which took 3 trips in my car and a hire van which i purchased! Again this was last year when i didnt have financial difficulty. i find it hard to believe that most of you haven't hit tough times and turned to a parent for help, maybe you all get a kick out of verbally bashing someone, and im not saying that because you disagree with me, the language some of you have used is appauling for mature woman and some of you should be ashamed of yourselfs. some of you are saying "we dont get a break" do you have a child who at the age of 4 is unable to speak, who is kicks punches and pulls your hair out? Do you get looks and people wispering about you in supermarkets? doubt it!! I have a very demanding child which i look after most of the day, his dad works from 9-8 every day so i take on all of the childcare when im not at uni! what a spolit little bitch i am eh!!!!!

janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 20:40:40

'my father never visits me so couldn't see what I was going through'

Yet you assume to know his financial situation inside out and judge him for not being willing to take a loan in order to fund a car for you.. This is precisely what I meant about you doing precisely what you are accusing your parents of doing.

It must be very tough having a child with SN and another on the way but ultimately anything your parents give you in time or money is a bonus. It's
not an entitlement.

Crashdoll- you're absolutely right, some people think that unless you respond by licking someones arse and telling them they are doing nothing wrong, then you're not being supportive

Plenty of people on here have empathised with the OPs situation, but feel she's being entitled and unreasonable in what she's expecting from her parents

And as i've said im the reason i'm not speaking to him isn't about the sodding loan its about saying his unborn grandchild is a mistake. i dont know what his financial situation is but my mum has a fair idea, which is why at the time she was angry at him for not helping. the only thing i feel entitled to is a bit of support! I didnt ask my dad to give a car i asked for the means to get one. My father never visits because that would eat into hos drinking time! he's just back from a trip to africa...safe to say he is'nt impoverished!!

OP I don't think you're being unreasonable and I was surprised by the angle some people have taken here. I think you sound under a lot of pressure, and neither parent is really being supportive. Sorry, it doesn't sound like you can expect the support you want, from your parents. Keep your son safe. I wonder if there is any scope to stop doing any of the commitments in your life, it is very busy? If there's anything you can drop, the stress levels might reduce.

countrykitten Sun 17-Mar-13 20:51:20

You have just admitted that you 'don't know what his financial situation is' and then go on to say that 'he isn't impoverished'. You sound really petulant and silly and you are making huge assumptions about your father by your own admission.

Yfronts Sun 17-Mar-13 20:54:17

I think your Dad completely over reacted. Continue to pay him but don't ask for favors again. He doesn't sound like he is very willing to help out.

Also have no expectations of support from your mum. Expect nothing and if she offers any support it will be a bonus.

I say this as someone who has no family support also but has managed to stand on my own two feet.

As a grandparent I'd have a very different approach. I'd want to support and help my adult kids.

Well call me crazy but if you can afford a trio to south africa you can afford to let your daughter off woth 70 quid! i also said i didnt but my mother has a good idea! Picking out parts of my post and twisting to to suit yourself...nice!! im do e explaining myself to you lot in all honesty! think what you like

countrykitten Sun 17-Mar-13 20:58:55

Whatever - you sound like a spoiled little kid. And here is something to ponder on - HIS money is not YOUR money so stop thinking that you are entitled to it. FFS you seem to hate the guy but you want his money....

Yfronts Sun 17-Mar-13 21:00:58

I think many posters have no idea about the reality of living with an autistic son. It's obviously a very hard time for you being pregnant and studying too. You do need more support and help generally I'm sure but it is probably best to have zero expectations of you family. It will help you feel less frustrated and find alternative solutions to issues.

Your so right yfronts! If many of these people had to live my life for 48 hours they would crumble! i never said i wanted HIS money i wanted grace period! You sound like a keyboard warrior love, if this was an antual face to face support group im betting the majority of you would say the things you have said! well guess what im a REAL person with REAL feelings! I asked for advice not to be called names!!!

countrykitten Sun 17-Mar-13 21:18:55

I wish you all the best and hope that you get yourself sorted soon.

crashdoll Sun 17-Mar-13 21:20:05

The trouble is, when you're an adult, you are not entitled to support from your parents. I appreciate that life is tough for you. I would suggest seeking some support from the SN board because you are not the only one in your situation and it's unfair to assume the rest of us have it easy. I think you will find life a tad easier if you accept that, as an adult, you are responsible for yourself and your children. If your parents help you, then you are lucky but not entitled to it. I'm sorry they don't seem to support you, why don't you cut your losses and seek support from elsewhere?

Howsaboutthat Sun 17-Mar-13 21:21:15

Having been to Africa may be the very reason he's unable to help out at this time.

He budgeted for his holiday, but hasn't budgeted enough to pay your car loan this month.

If you had said Dad in 2 months time I could really do with a break from the loan repayment he maybe in a position to help you.

I hope that you are free 24/7 for your children for the rest of your life awaiting for their call to babysit, and that you keep spare money available every month just incase either of your kids call.

You don't know his circumstance this month as you say yourself he lives out of the country and you don't see him. He could have had the holiday to Africa, his boiler being replaced, holes in his trousers and has cleaned himself out this month - all his perogrative.

crashdoll Sun 17-Mar-13 21:22:32

"If many of these people had to live my life for 48 hours they would crumble."

If you don't hold your head up high and maintain some dignity on this thread, then you are just as bad as your attackers. It's not on to assume our lives are all so fucking easy and it makes you come across as a marytr.

Owllady Sun 17-Mar-13 21:25:14

my parents are useless as well. I can count on one finger how many times my mum has babysitted and my eldest is 14 this year and is severely disabled. Yes it's shit but you have to get on with it I'm afraid, and my dad well i haven't seen him for the best part of decade...and my MIl is fine in nature smile but old. It's life I am afraid

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 17-Mar-13 21:25:19

You asked in your OP whether you would be unreasonable to cease contact with your mum and dad. If you feel that this would be the best option for you then you should do it. Lots of people (and posters on here) have challenging situations at home that they just have to get on with, with support or without.

In fairness to your parents though, your mother has provided childcare for you and your father has taken out a loan for you. You'll have to find your own childcare and have the integrity to pay your father for the loan he took out for you. More than that you don't need to do. Ceasing contact is your decison and you're free to make it.

countrykitten Sun 17-Mar-13 21:26:07

But please don't call me 'love' again. smile

Owllady Sun 17-Mar-13 21:27:09

Can our partner not help you with the car or are you on your own? It's not really up to your Dad in all honesty

(i have only skim read)

Believe me after the many comments ive had about being spoilt or entitled i feel im well within my rights to say my situation now and for the near future is bloody hard going! So your saying im to sit and read about how im not to expect any support from my family or a help very occasionally with chidcare and sit and take it without pointing out my life is fucking difficult and many of you WOULD crumble in my situation. im a mum to an autistic son, a student nurse and pregnant. i do all this with little or no outside support until my partner get home at 9 (takes him an hour to get home) im not a martyr, i usually deal with all of this relitively well. i know people have their own stuff to deal with all im saying is try and deal with mine then see how you feel when someone calls you spoilt or entitled!

Owllady Sun 17-Mar-13 21:40:09

Have you spoken to anyone about how you feel?

I don't mean your parents, I mean someone professional, like a cousnellor

Owllady Sun 17-Mar-13 21:41:00

and please don't take my posts in the same tone as others, i do mean that in genuine sense! It's quite normal and rational to feel overwhelmed and angry

janey68 Sun 17-Mar-13 21:47:06

I've completely lost sympathy now you've told everyone on here that they'd crumble if they had to live your life. How fucking dare anyone assume they know the private hell others may be living through? There are people on here who have lost children in horrendous circumstances, had life threatening illnesses, been through bitter divorces, bankruptcy, you name it, it's all there on mumsnet, and that's not to mention the people who may not have publicly posted but have had such things happen

Once again- its that assumption isn't it? That your father 'should' lend you money, that your mother 'should' cancel her holiday and that everyone else on here breezes through life without a care. I started out with some sympathy with your situation (though not with your entitlement) but Christ, you're doing yourself no favours with your venom towards everyone

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 17-Mar-13 21:47:40

You're entitled to feel anyway you want about your situation, OP. It does sound tough. You can certainly ask for help and support from your family but, it's not necessarily something that you can or should count on. If it's offered, great, but if it doesn't materialise then you'll need a 'plan b' that you can rely on, ie. yourself and/or your partner.

I've been back to read your first post a couple of times now and, with the later ones in mind, I can kind of see it as a 'vent' rather than 'spoiled rantings'. Bear in mind that people reading your post only have what you write to go on. Nobody knows everything about your life that you do, so if they pick on bits of your post, it's probably because those bits 'strike a chord' somewhere with them; it's not necessarily a reflection on you.

I would say though that when you say that others would 'crumble' in your shoes; there are quite a few posters here who have had a great deal more on their plates. It's not a competition but you don't always know your audience when you post here and if you're a bit inflammatory, you can get a bit of an echo back.

You've had several posters mention to you about the other parts of the MN board; I think that's good advice and you'll find support there from parents who know what you're going through. I wish you well and hope that you''ll think carefully about your relationship with your parents because what you do from hereon in will dictate this and impact on your children also.

Pigsmummy Sun 17-Mar-13 21:58:49

OP this site is for grown ups. You say that you never want to use it again, maybe when you grow up you might change your mind?

zwischenzug Sun 17-Mar-13 22:03:26

Well OP at least you picked an appropriate name. I'm interested in this crumbling concept. Would others in your situation crumble like a digestive biscuit, or more like a sponge cake?

crashdoll Sun 17-Mar-13 22:17:38

"Believe me after the many comments ive had about being spoilt or entitled i feel im well within my rights to say my situation now and for the near future is bloody hard going!"

Hold your horses! I acknowledged that things are tough but you do not have the monopoly on having a tough life. I've tried to offer you genuine advice but you've continued to be snappy on this thread, even to those who did not attack you but actually tried to help. I'm sorry I don't agree with everything you've said but that is AIBU and you clearly do not think you have been U.

FasterStronger Sun 17-Mar-13 22:29:20

mummy - do you have shared finances with your DP?

MyDarlingClementine Sun 17-Mar-13 23:11:54


You have some v good advice here about not posting stuff like this in AIBU, this is because some people dont have a sensitve radar and when its posted in there - regardless of how the op sounds or what she says - they think its a great excuse to stick the boot in. Its almost like they are attracted to the vulnerability, maybe they need that power trip to big themselves up?

Op, dont use some of this feedback as a stick to beat yourself with. Its obvious you have had and are having an extremly hard time.

Ignore the nasty posts, as said before - lower expectations of your family, keep paying your dad back and dont ask for money again, and try and emotionally distance yourself from your mother. as sad as it is - its her life.

you have your own life and little ones to think about. being stressed in pregnancy is not good, you have to think of your baby if not yourself.

Your so right MDC., this will be the last post on this thread, thank you for your advice and thanks to the others who have been genuine in their advice, it was really appreciated

WestieMamma Sun 17-Mar-13 23:25:01

I understand how difficult it can be OP. I am a mum to an autistic daughter, a law student, pregnant, partner with a 2hr commute, plus I'm autistic myself, physically disabled and in a different country to both our families. I do however think you are being unreasonable to cease all contact with your parents just because they won't/can't give you the support you expect from them.

Goldenbear Mon 18-Mar-13 01:09:47

OP, you absolutely do sound like you're having a hard time of it and i think this was glaringly obvious from the start. Your childhood, with chronic asthma landing you in hospital a lot of the time, must have been pretty miserable. Your Father's drinking habits don't sound very conventional and as a child I would imagine this was quite scarey. The aggression related to your son's autism must be very difficult to live with. I don't think your misfortunes negate the misfortunes of others. It is not a competition and would suspect you're right that a lot of people wouldn't cope so well with such pressures. I had one particular trauma that changed my whole life and was incredibly difficult to bounce back from but we are not in a league table of life's most shit experiences so talk of a monopoly on bad experiences is irrelevant and as far as I can see another way to belittle you

I have been posting on here since 2007 but have noticed in the last year or so some really hateful posts. I can't relate to a lot of the stuff been written on here anymore or begin to understand posting styles that exhibit bullying behaviour that wouldn't be out of place in the school playground! All this 'entitled brat' stuff is completely, especially as her life is not exactly a 'bed of Roses'.

People should be able to post in AIBU and not be called names.

Goldenbear Mon 18-Mar-13 06:53:00

Should read, 'all this 'entitled brat stuff is completely ridiculous and far fetched'.

janey68 Mon 18-Mar-13 07:06:33

We are not in a league table of life's shit experiences, no, which is why quite a few people's hackles were raised at the OPs assertion that she's got it harder than everyone else, and no one else would cope in her situation. That's such an insult to the many people on mumsnet facing terrible situations such as bereavement, illness, abuse, bankruptcy .....
MNHQ delete posts which don't comply with their guidelines so I don't recognise this idea that some people are just making personal attacks without offering a valid opinion. There have been some excellent suggestions here- posting on other boards for more specialised support etc and yes, if the op feels its the right thing to do she can cut contact with her parents. But if you post on here you are asking for honest opinions - otherwise what's the point? If you just want to offload or want hand holding then post elsewhere without asking if you're being unreasonable . Also this is another of those threads where it was the OP who started being aggressive towards people who didn't totally agree with her.

Anyway- my advice is go back to the DPs parents and see if they will kindly do childcare for the whole week of the holiday - they are clearly generous people having paid for OP to have a holiday anyway. If they can't, perhaps you can take half a week which they're already doing the childcare for? Half a week is still a decent break. I am assuming that even if the OPs mother dropped her holiday plans, the OP would not be happy to leave her son with her now, since she's still with the guy who mistreated the boy. As far as the father is concerned, don't ask for Money any more. He is not happy with it (for whatever reason- and in fact you don't need to know the reason, at the end of the day it's his life) I would also suggest trying not to make assumptions because ultimately you just don't know the fine details of everyone elses life. Eg- you say your father has just got back from S Africa so 'is obviously loaded' ; well, how would you feel if after your upcoming holiday, people say about you: 'god she's always saying she has no money but she's just left her son and swanned off on holiday'. See what I mean? You know the holiday has been gifted to you, and the childcare is another gift to give you a break from a very challenging home life, but other people won't necessarily see that. So I would try to afford the same principles to viewing your parents lives. Neither of them sound as though they've had happy lives- your mother is I a cycle of abuse, your father has had drink problems, and even if he does appear to be taking the money in, working away offshore is a massive price to pay and not one many of us would want.
Hope you manage to sort out the holiday

Hissy Mon 18-Mar-13 07:33:04

There's honest opinion, emotional illiteracy and not being able to see the wood for thw trees.

To those putting the boot in:

How many times do we see a woman come on here and ask 'AIBU to ask H to pick his clothes up off the floor before I kill him?

People pile in, saying killing him is AIBU, yeah he could pick up his own stuff, but your're a SAHM, wouldn't kill you to do it now would it?

Then it turns out there's more than meets the eye.

This situation is similar. These are not usual circumstances, and it would appear that OP is being treated differently to her brothers, and is on the end of some vile and crappy behaviour. On top of this, she's got a challenging parenting situation.

We could all forgive her DF not letting her off with deferring a payment, but it does sound somewhat reasonable for OP to ask, and certianly doesn't ever warrant a comment like the one he made.

The question was 'AIBU, or are my parents a complete waste of time'

To all intents and purposes, for all manner of reasons, to the OP it would appear that She INBU in some ways, and her parents have and ARE not being as supportive as most other parents are.

Sometimes the story is bigger than the original opening post. I'd hope that anyone spending more than a few hours minutes of their life on Mumsnet has learnt that there's more than meets the eye sometimes, to look closer, and consider people's feelings by not judging/insulting someone clearly in some turmoil.

My advice OP, deep breath, let yourself stop for a moment and try to see a rational alternative to your family. No-one can think when they're worked up.

What you called Couple Time is called Respite in your situation. You need a break. As other posters have suggested, could your DP parents help out?

Come over to Relationships or SN boards. Stately Homes might help a little too.

Goldenbear Mon 18-Mar-13 07:37:47

No the OP wasn't aggressive first - again where are we, the school playground? There was a really crass post about her not being made pregnant by her father but by her DP so why was she expecting her father to pay. As far as I could see the 'angry' posters then had a field day with her.

janey, Rowan from MNHQ has already come on the thread and contradicted your point that AIBU is no place to seek support.

janey68 Mon 18-Mar-13 07:44:36

Hissy- my point is that judging someone just on the surface is awful- god knows, the OP has enough of that with the stares and comments she gets in shops about her ASD son. So knowing how awful it is, im surprised that she makes judgements about her father (assuming that him having a holiday = hes loaded) and - this is what has really upset a lot of people- making sweeping judgements about everyone on the thread, implying that their lives are all easy and stating that they wouldn't survive in her shoes. That is a massive insult.

QuickLookBusy Mon 18-Mar-13 07:57:21

I feel for you OP. I don't think it's unreasonable for your F to help you, you say he has helped your brothers, so I understand why you are so upset.

If my adult DDs needed help and like you they were working/studying I would do everything in my power to help them.

What your dad said about your pregnancy was disgusting and I understand why you aren't talking to him. I wouldn't either.

Goldenbear Mon 18-Mar-13 07:58:10

janey, if i'm reading the same post as you, it is clear that the OP said her replies in defence to the inappropriate comments about her being a 'brat'. She is the victim of all those sniping at her, people that enjoy, 'jumping on the band wagon'. She remarked that other people might 'crumble' if they had to endure the same lifestyle at the very end of the thread as Presumbly she felt attacked!

Fwiw, my father works in Africa for 3 months at a time, he much prefers the country, the people. It is not always some great hardship- having to work 'abroad'! Like the OP's Father he earns good money there.

Hissy Tue 19-Mar-13 07:09:47

Most people would crumble living a life like the OP's.

Blinkered and judgemental Views on AIBU mostly show the proof of this, in that the poster has no empathy at all with those around them.

Many would have crumbled living through some of the crap I've come through, I'm told this frequently. I on the otherhand would crumble if I had to live the lives of some others on Mumsnet. Sometimes I can only shake my head in disbelief at what others have to go through, often at the hands of other people, and at times alone. It's this fact that we should never lose sight of, our own individual strength, and the need for solidarity and support when needed.

Off shore workers do earn decent money. That's why they do it basically. OP knows her dad, and knows the extent to which her Brothers are bailed out, and all she did was ask for a payment holiday so that she could use the money to repair the car.

People in the situation that OP finds herself in are wholly entitled to be frustrated. It's a shame she was so rounded on by the emotionally bereft. People like the OP need our support, not condemnation.

janey68 Tue 19-Mar-13 07:49:27

Hissy- yes, off shore workers do earn decent money- who has denied that? But as you say, people have different pressures, and frankly a high pay packet wouldn't make up for the stress factors involved in such a life style for many of us- otherwise why wouldn't we all be signing up for such jobs? And no one knows the details of anyone elses life- whether they have debts etc. I think people are quite right to hear warning bells when anyone posts claiming to 'know' someone else's finances and life style even though that person knows nothing of theirs in return. It's so easy to make sweeping judgements- like I said, imagine how the op would feel if she takes her holiday and people whisper about her that she claims to be broke but is leaving her son and swanning off on holiday? She'd rightly be hurt because that's not the truth- other people don't see the challenges she's facing or the fact the holiday is a gift. That's the thing many of us find unreasonable. It's not about not sympathising with her situation- its about the way she assumes everyone else is living the life of Riley

FasterStronger Tue 19-Mar-13 08:09:00

janey she assumes everyone else is living the life of Riley Yes.

Hissy Tue 19-Mar-13 12:38:56

Compared with what she apparently is shouldering, she's probably not far off the mark...

If her F had said, no, sorry love, no can do, fair enough.

He didn't. He said WAY more to a stressed, under pressure, PG woman.

Unless you're a stately homer, you won't see the nuances here.

My point, briefly, is that an OP is entitled to be frustrated, to vent. There is no need to pile in and judge. Especially when you don't have the merest notion of what her situation might be like.

But that is apparently the way of AIBU, shout first, don't think, don't listen, don't care.

It's frankly pretty poor to be defending an attacking stance.

janey68 Tue 19-Mar-13 13:01:16

Everyone has agreed that what the father said was out or order as you'll
See if you read the thread, so no one is defending that. It was also out or order for the OP to beg and
badger for 6 months for him to take out a loan.
Of course, much easier to attack people who
Don't agree with everything you say by twisting what has been written.

I repeat: OPs father should not have said what he did. OP should not have put pressure on him to take out a loan for her. Having pushed him
Into it unwillingly, she certainly shouldn't expect to default on it

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