To find it annoying when people tell me I'm lucky to have well behaved children?

(288 Posts)
alisunshine29 Fri 15-Mar-13 12:08:26

My eldest is 5.5 years old and youngest has just turned 9 months. Today we walked to school then I took youngest DD to a baby/music group. On the way to school we saw eldest DDs mum drive past, DDs friend was hitting her mum while she was driving and she was struggling to fend her off. We caught up with them at the car park and the mum was talking to her child as though it had never happened (I wasn't mistaken - they'd stopped in traffic so could clearly see) and 2 mins later her daughter started having a tantrum about taking a toy to school and slapped her 2 year old brother in anger. The mum barely reacted and in the end let her take it and left it for the teacher to take away and deal with the consequences. Younger brother was trying to climb out of pushchair so mum passed him her iPhone with a tv show on to keep him still and he threw it in the road! Mum just smacked him and retrieved it. After the eldest children had gone in to school, she excused her daughters behaviour by saying that she's tired because she went to sleep fifteen mins late last night and had to walk from the car park - it's about 300 metres!! She asked where I was parked and I said I'd walked from home, she was amazed as its almost two miles away. She then commented on how lucky I am elder DD is so well behaved and can cope with the walk.
At baby group, it was chaos as they have organised music activities where parents and kids sit in a circle and do actions etc. The leader specifically asked children are not allowed to run riot like last week, when some damage to the building was caused and pointed out a separate room where those not wanting to join in could go for a chat and cup of tea. Still, mums let their babies crawl/toddle everywhere, older toddlers were running around and pulling notices off the wall leaving pins on the floor etc. Their mums either ignored them or tried to pin them still on their lap. Again, a mum commented that I'm lucky that my daughter is well behaved.
Of course my youngest is only tiny and has no rules as such, but if she wasn't interested in the music group I'd have gone in the other room and kept her happy/occupied. I'm quite strict and very consistent with my eldest DD hence the reason I believe her to be well behaved - it is not luck. Special needs excluding, I think it is inexcusable for a child to hit a parent like DDs friend was this morning - particularly while she's driving, it's dangerous for everyone. To not do anything about it I believe is the mum neglecting her duty to her daughter. Her DD was going crazy in the school foyer about the teacher trying to remove her toy and her mum just shrugged and left them to it like its normal. AIBU to be annoyed when people say I'm lucky to have well behaved children?

moogy1a Fri 15-Mar-13 12:11:07

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Trills Fri 15-Mar-13 12:13:14

AIBU to be annoyed when people say I'm lucky to have well behaved children?


There is always an element of luck.

Luck and work are both needed.

So you are lucky.

notnow2 Fri 15-Mar-13 12:13:25

How smug

alisunshine29 Fri 15-Mar-13 12:14:10

Oh my goodness, it is not smug to say anything remotely positive about yourself/your child!

HerbyVore Fri 15-Mar-13 12:14:48


cornypony Fri 15-Mar-13 12:14:51

You are clearly a better parent OP.

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound Fri 15-Mar-13 12:15:07

Sometimes its luck of the draw. Dc1&2 are very well behaved,always were. DC3 is stubborn and loves nothing more than a bit of mischief.
So YABU to be so smug and holier than thou.

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 15-Mar-13 12:15:18

Wow Op, what moogy said.
The smuggest ever thread I've read on here recently.

HerbyVore Fri 15-Mar-13 12:16:39

It's not 'remotely positive' - you have criticised other people and said how your very hard work and strictness has resulted in your very well behaved children.

Enjoy the compliments - don't judge other people because they are struggling.

moogy1a Fri 15-Mar-13 12:16:56

Not really AIBU though, is it? should really be in a new "not very stealth slealth boasting" topic ( and that's coming from someone who has 2 beautifully behaved children/ and a teeny one who's too little to be beaten into submission yet)

Tubegirl Fri 15-Mar-13 12:17:01

Well, maybe not totally U but a little. You don't know the real circumstances, only what a very tired (and probably embarassed) mum told you. Children don't come with a manual and some parents are better at it than others. We all have different parenting styles and we all have days where it just goes horribly horribly wrong. I've had dd meltdown on me on more than one occasion. Tantrums are a fact of life. To be honest I think you come across as judgmental. I'm sat here wondering if the woman you described is ok or at home crying into her coffee.

notnow2 Fri 15-Mar-13 12:17:11

I am a shit parent - my 3 kids are more than a handful - they don't hit me but the 17 month wanders where she wants and doesn't listen and the 3 and 5 year old fight and bicker and make a load of noise and mess.

Callisto Fri 15-Mar-13 12:17:53

Why is it smug to state that one's parenting has had a positive impact on the behaviour of one's child? Some parent's are useless at dicipline and have appallingly badly behaved children. I'm good at dicipline and communicating with my DD and she behaves wel as a result. How is it smug to say that?

TarkaTheOtter Fri 15-Mar-13 12:18:23

Can't comment on your older dd as mine is still little but in the case of your 9 month old it is 100% luck.

chocoflump Fri 15-Mar-13 12:18:24

Well aren't you just the most perfect mother ever - what do you want, us to congratulate you for doing such a wonderful job?? hmm

moogy1a Fri 15-Mar-13 12:18:25

Did you see how I managed a bit of stealth boasting myself there?wink

shesariver Fri 15-Mar-13 12:19:05

Op you arent just saying something "remotely positive" about your child though are you - you are saying you are a better parent because your child is better behaved.

lynniep Fri 15-Mar-13 12:19:09

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notnow2 Fri 15-Mar-13 12:19:29

Tubegirl - exactly - the description of that other mother's behaviour sounds 'end of tether' like. Congrats on never being there because it ain't pretty.

Sleepthief Fri 15-Mar-13 12:20:04

But it is smug to be so critical of pretty much everyone around you (from your post) while so obviously pleased with yourself and your superior parenting skills.

My eldest is very well behaved and easy going, always has been. Middle child is mostly well behaved, but very single-minded, which can cause roblems at times. Youngest is a monkey. He is also 2, so I'm hoping he'll grow out of it a bit, but im under no illusions that he will be as easy to keep in line as the other two. All parented the same, just different personalities - so, yes, a lot of luck involved.

Tubegirl Fri 15-Mar-13 12:20:26

X posted with the rest but yes I have to agree with Moogy, Herb et al.

MotheringShites Fri 15-Mar-13 12:20:26

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WorraLiberty Fri 15-Mar-13 12:21:03

I totally get what you're saying the sense that some parents never punish their kids/always make excuses for them - and then wonder why they're at their wit's end with their behavior.

But having had 3 children, I can honestly tell you that there certainly is an element of luck involved. Some kids are much easier to discipline than others and you may well be a lot less smug when your baby is a bit older.

She could well turn into the most willful child you've ever had the horror to meet...and nothing at all like your eldest child.

So perhaps a little empathy for other parents and a little less smuggery?

I was a brilliantly behaved child, people always commented on it to my mum. I did really well at school and went to grammar school at 11. I was polite and never in trouble.
Then as a teenager I got drunk on white lightening in carparks and had sex with inappropriate men an women. grin
Good luck OP, fingers crossed your superior parenting will hold up forever.

I am not particularly strict with DD1.

She is naughty sometimes but never badly behaved or spiteful. Certainly not like you describe your friends DD.

I think it is luck tbh. Yes parenting comes into it too. But you were lucky to get a compliant child that responds to your parenting style.

mindfullymum Fri 15-Mar-13 12:21:36

Alisunshine29, you're not being smug. Your children are simply modelling what they see. Congratulations on continuing to raise such wonderful children. I get such comments very regularly too and feel that reaching high behavioural expectations really shouldn't be so exceptional that it merits the comments of strangers/teachers. Not that my boy's a constant angel, he's not. However he gets firm boundaries so he feels secure and the result is, unsurprisingly, a polite and helpful little child. Moogy1a, this isn't me being smug either - just concurring.

Velve Fri 15-Mar-13 12:21:56

I think there is always an element of luck.
I say this as a person who has taken care of lots of children from lots of different backgrounds and whose parents have vastly different parenting styles.
You are at least a little bit lucky, but that doesn't mean you're not doing a fab job of disciplining your kids and teaching them manners.

dontwanttobefatandforty Fri 15-Mar-13 12:22:37

I'm having a guess that all those who are saying she is smug have unruly children?

Sometimes people don't realise you have to work with anything to get good results. In the same respect sometimes no matter how much hard work you do you don't always get the same results. There is an element of luck but I also believe alot of hard work to.

Just enjoy the compliment as its intended. When they say you are very lucky just smile and say 'yes I am thank you'

kinkyfuckery Fri 15-Mar-13 12:22:50

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neontetra Fri 15-Mar-13 12:23:37

Callisto, surely commenting yourself on how good you are at something is smug. That is pretty much what smug means, isn't it?

sununu Fri 15-Mar-13 12:24:06

well, I have a very well behaved child who I have received compliments for, and another who is frankly a terror and has caused many public displays you would tut over. I have not been a different parent to them. With #2 it is sometimes necessary to pick your battles and not worry about what people might be thinking of us.

YABU because it's parenting AND luck

I think my DS is quite well behaved but I have no illusions that it's just because of my parenting.

ghoulelocks Fri 15-Mar-13 12:25:49

don't have a may learn the hard way that all children are different


People say I'm lucky to have a baby that sleeps through the night at 10 months old - I always say it was bloody hard work to get to that point, and that it was very important to me that he did sleep in his own bed.

People will always say you are lucky when you have well behaved kids. Just say thank you, it was hard work to get them like this!

WorraLiberty Fri 15-Mar-13 12:26:46

I'm having a guess that all those who are saying she is smug have unruly children?

Then perhaps you'd better guess again.

All my 3 are very well behaved and get nothing but compliments from family/friends/teachers/etc..

I'm a strict parent and always have's worked for me and my family and I do often silently shake my head at parents who seem to let their kids run wild.

But that doesn't mean I don't have empathy for those with kids how are much harder to discipline.

nenevomito Fri 15-Mar-13 12:26:57

I have one of each behaviour wise - same parents, same parenting techniques, two different personalities.

Just a word of warning - Dd was the most amazingly well behaved baby until around 18 months when she started the terrible twos and kept going for a good while. I wondered where my lovely calm baby had gone, so frankly at 9mos old, I suspect luck rather than superior parenting skills.

That aside your post is reading like Mrs McSmug from Smugsville doing a sponsored Smug and frankly made me want to stand on your toe accidently on purpose.

alisunshine29 Fri 15-Mar-13 12:27:11

I struggle to have empathy when I see a child endangering the lives of her family and others and a mum not doing anything about it. My eldest is very wilful and independent but I know how to handle her - ask before helping rather than trying to help first, explain before things happen etc. The people I talk of don't think they're struggling though - they think its normal parenthood/behaviour which frustrates me as its miserable for all involved and you can't say anything about it or people think you're smug and judgemental...!

Lottapianos Fri 15-Mar-13 12:27:26

Well may I be the first to say YANBU OP! smile

I have worked with many many families and I would say that luck has sod all to do with how well your child behaves. Yes, children are all different and some need more support with behaviour than others, but that just means that as a parent,you need to work even harder and be even more consistent with that child.

'I'm quite strict and very consistent with my eldest DD hence the reason I believe her to be well behaved - it is not luck.'

I completely agree and I don't see what's wrong with you giving yourself a pat on the back for putting the work in! I don't see in anything in your post that suggests you are 'the perfect parent' (whatever that would be hmm) and nothing that sounds smug either

MammaTJ Fri 15-Mar-13 12:27:50

My DD1 was a perfect child, and as of last Wednesday, when she turned 18, is an awesome adult.

DD2 is a different story. We are in the very long and frustrating process of trying to get her diagnosed with ADHD, he behaviour often leaves a lot to be desired. They have both been parented in the same way, as has my more normally naughty/good DS.

They are all different.

Good luck and I hope you continue to have reason to be smug, but somehow, something will happen to shake your obvious faith in your perfect parenting.


LadyBeagleEyes Fri 15-Mar-13 12:28:10

I must be a perfect parent then, given that ds at 17 is and has always been amazing.
But I'm not perfect, I just went with the flow mostly, and he put up with so much shit from me when my marriage broke up when he was 10, when I was depressed and drinking too much.
He's still my best, funny pal and is off to university this year.
Luck is a huge part of it IMO.

shewhowines Fri 15-Mar-13 12:28:17

There is an element of luck, yes but in general YANBU.

You reap what you sow.

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound Fri 15-Mar-13 12:30:09

My children are not unruly,never had a less than glowing school report,always polite and mannerly. But dc3 is artistic by nature which often goes hand in hand with stubborness,will fullness and dramatic shows of emotion. I deal with this as and when it happens. Nice to know there's a smug mum with judgy pants hoicked up to her neck looking on,with a cats bum mouth.

flippinada Fri 15-Mar-13 12:33:54

I always roll my eyes when I see threads of this nature.

Nobody who truly believes they are a good parent posts stuff like this. It's an exercise in validation.

WorraLiberty Fri 15-Mar-13 12:34:41

I struggle to have empathy when I see a child endangering the lives of her family and others and a mum not doing anything about it.

What exactly was she supposed to do about it?

Stop the car and hold up the school run traffic while she tried to calm the tantrumming child amongst the beeping car horns?

Take her hands off the steering wheel and restrain the child?

How would you have handled the situation OP?

Feminine Fri 15-Mar-13 12:34:42

It is total luck in my opinion.

I have 3, have used exactly the same 'technique' with all of them

They all responded differently.

Sometimes you are given more of a challenge, sometimes difficult little ones turn out to be fantastic teens.

Difficult children quite often turn out to be wonderful adults.

op I don't know how you managed to type your post without wondering if it may offend.

I don't really think YABU but just you are far from done yet! grin

Midlifecrisisarefun Fri 15-Mar-13 12:34:50

I had 3 'well behaved children', they could be taken anywhere, were polite, had exemplary manners, successful at sport, academic study, music etc People were always surprised as we also lived on benefits/low wages and in a council house. Fast forward 20 yrs two are lovely, not high achievers yet but happy, the eldest has spent 10 yrs going 'off the rails', is a depressive who has been in trouble with the police.
If they make it to adulthood without incident then YANBU until then YABU.
<disclaimer: was as smug as hell until DS started being a PITA!! grin>

skaen Fri 15-Mar-13 12:34:58

Yabu and smug. You are perfectly entitled to feel pleased that your children behave well but it is very unpleasant to judge the other mum and sneer at her on here.

Chandon Fri 15-Mar-13 12:36:52


NoelHeadbands Fri 15-Mar-13 12:38:15


I have two very well behaved children

And one who is a demon

I guess somewhere in between no2 and no3, we must have let our standards slip somehow then hmm

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound Fri 15-Mar-13 12:39:03

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ArielThePiraticalMermaid Fri 15-Mar-13 12:39:06


There is no luck involved ever. It's all due to fantastic parenting such as yours smile

Kneedeepindaisies Fri 15-Mar-13 12:39:09

I was about to say something similar, Midlife. My DS was well behaved and lovely until he turned 10. He can still be lovely of course but no one compliments us on how well behaved he is anymore!

TwoBoiledEggs Fri 15-Mar-13 12:39:20

Ignoring bad behaviour is the most basic dog training tip ever... And quite applicable to toddlers as well.

All children are different. I don't think you are "lucky" however. My more tricky to handle child is an absolute joy and I feel sorry you won't experience that sort of vibrant personality. Much better than a pudding of a child, who just sits there.

GirlOutNumbered Fri 15-Mar-13 12:39:30

I work hard to ensure that I bring up my children well and although a splattering of luck when the genes got mixed up is involved, I hate it when people assume I have to do nothing to make my children behave.

A friend of mine always comments on how well my son eats, as if its by magic that he can hold a knife and fork properly

SolomanDaisy Fri 15-Mar-13 12:39:49

Hahaha, you're being smug about the behaviour a 9 month old compared to toddlers grin

bloodyschool Fri 15-Mar-13 12:39:57

I think you should wait until all your children have grown up before you start congratulating yourself. You have hardly got started as a parent yet!!!

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound Fri 15-Mar-13 12:42:24

You know what they say OP,dream baby,nightmare toddler.

flippinada Fri 15-Mar-13 12:42:27

You could always turn this around and look at it from another pov.

Someone might be congratulating themselves on their strictness, boundary setting etc.

Could be their children are so well behaved because they are frightened to be otherwise?

I have toddler twins.
One will chat, watch, quietly read a book and eat her lunch self sufficiently. I can take her anywhere.
The other is a running, climbing, screaming, head butting whirlwind of curiosity and destruction. I am more circumspect about where I take him.
Did I parent one better than the other?

PeppermintPasty Fri 15-Mar-13 12:45:40

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FrauMoose Fri 15-Mar-13 12:46:05

I had a friend whose child was 'the perfect son'. He was the well-behaved intelligent child of middle-class teacher parents. He always got high marks in exams, had worthwhile hobbies, and ended up doing the sort of course that more or less guarantees a good job at a sought-after university. Last time I met my friend, after a long absence, I asked - with the usual sense of dread - how her son was doing. I was very taken aback to hear that he had had a major breakdown at university and had to leave. He'd then spent two years back at home, hiding in his room not speaking and only coming out at night and/or to see a counsellor. He'd just recovered enough to start studying again- back in the first year - on the same type of course but at a much less prestigious university.
Sometimes it's better if they're being a bit bad. They are being their real selves, not pretending -and struggling to be who their mother and father want them to be.

TuftyFinch Fri 15-Mar-13 12:48:00

Have you thought about writing a book?
You could call it 'How to have the most best behaved children in the world'.

HerbyVore Fri 15-Mar-13 12:48:47

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Startail Fri 15-Mar-13 12:49:58

YANBU it drives me mad that parents seem scared to tell their DCs of in public,

My DDad was fairly strict and loved us to the moon and back.
I' grew to appreciate having freedom within very firm, very loving boundaries. It gives an enormous sense of security.

I knew my parents would always be there for me, in return it seemed natural to earn that respect.

I try to do the same with my DDs. I take a lot more cheek than DDad would, but they know that if they push too hard they will be reined in.

I think you really do have to decide what is acceptable behaviour and stick to it.

And you have to know your DCs, what works with easy going DD1 does not necessarily work with DD2.

Sometimes you have to step back and see it through their eyes and work out how to get them back on side.

eavesdropping Fri 15-Mar-13 12:52:55

YABU. If somebody told me I was lucky to have a well-behaved child then I would concede that yes, I probably am. In fact I've thought it myself when I've watched her be better behaved than others - I haven't sat there mentally patting myself on the back for being a better parent. It's exactly the same as thinking I was unlucky for having a crap sleeper - I don't think that was down to me either, just one of those things.

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 15-Mar-13 12:54:29

For such a perfect parent Op, you are on here a lot asking advice from others.
So maybe it's the wisdom of all the crap mums on here that's put you in such an elevated position.
But, like Tufty, I'll await your book, for when my ds becomes a parent, as he's all grown up now.

jollygoose Fri 15-Mar-13 12:56:10

Its very easy to pass judgement on other peoples children. It is usually thought to be the parents fault in lack of discipline etc. I think otherwise I ha ve 3 now grown thank goodness who have all been treated I thought with the same firm but fair and kindly discipline, 2 of them were normal kids sometimes naughty but not usually, child no 3 was an absolute horror from 18 months onwards, I was too scared to take him to toddler groups and was often summoned to school usually because he had bashed someone - incidentally for all mothers in despair he has turned into a relatively normal grown up and is now earning a good living.
So yes UABU unless you walk in someone elses shoes you cannot know how it is for them I think you just want mnts to say what a wonderful parent you are.

ReallyTired Fri 15-Mar-13 12:57:37


Your kids are still really little and have lots of time to change, especially the baby. Nine months is plenty of time before the terrible twos start! This time next year you might regret this thread.

Children go through phases. Ds was very hard work as a toddler, but his behaviour is excellent at the age of 10. Dd has always been well behaved. I would not write such a smug post as I know that lots of kids turn bad during their teens.

We are lucky when we have well behaved children. We are lucky to have healthy children however they choose to behave. Go an ask the women on the IVF boards whether someone is lucky to have well behaved children or just lucky to have a child.

whimsicalmess Fri 15-Mar-13 12:58:08

My eldest the most perfect,placid baby you could ask for.

then at 1 a switch went off and in came a difficult.hyperactive toddler.

there is always some luck involved,

coppertop Fri 15-Mar-13 12:58:25

Babies and toddlers crawling and walking at a babies' group? Whatever next!

Who on earth holds a babies group in a building that's not suitable for small children to move around in? confused

TheRealFellatio Fri 15-Mar-13 12:59:20

I completely agree with Worra but as it's way back on page 1, I'm going to C&P it here:

'I totally get what you're saying the sense that some parents never punish their kids/always make excuses for them - and then wonder why they're at their wit's end with their behavior.

But having had 3 children, I can honestly tell you that there certainly is an element of luck involved. Some kids are much easier to discipline than others and you may well be a lot less smug when your baby is a bit older.

She could well turn into the most willful child you've ever had the horror to meet...and nothing at all like your eldest child.

So perhaps a little empathy for other parents and a little less smuggery?'

Also, if this child doing all the hitting is only 5 how on earth did she mamage to reach her mother when presumably strapped into a car seat or booster in the back of the car? confused

TheRealFellatio Fri 15-Mar-13 13:01:11

The way my kids have been as babies has not reflected (necessarily) how they were as toddlers and small children, and neither period has (necessarily) reflected how they have been s teenagers and young adults.

My easiest baby/toddler has been the most troublesome teenage BY FAR compared to the other two.

WorraLiberty Fri 15-Mar-13 13:01:37

Tufty and *LBE - re the book...

She'd better be quick before Katie Hopkins beats her to it... grin

WileyRoadRunner Fri 15-Mar-13 13:02:41

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WorraLiberty Fri 15-Mar-13 13:05:43

I've never really noticed the OP much before

But if she has form for this kind of thing then I agree with whoever said it sounds as though she's seeking validation.

OP really, just concentrate on how you do things and have the confidence to do it without comparing yourself to others.

You don't know what goes on behind closed doors and there may come a time when you'll be needing empathy and advice from the very parents you appear to be looking down on.

TuftyFinch Fri 15-Mar-13 13:05:44

Worra, I'd offer to ghost write it but I'm helping Katie with hers.

Iwantmybed Fri 15-Mar-13 13:06:20

Like scented I was a very well behaved child, my parents were pretty strict. Once teenage hit I loved nothing more than smoking, drinking, shagging around and getting high. The rebellion is most fun.
To be fair though OP, I don't like seeing badly behaved children either and I'm also fairly strict with my own. However I'm definitely prepared for those times ahead and would hate to eat humble pie in 10 yrs time.

KitchenandJumble Fri 15-Mar-13 13:07:15

Oh, dear. I have a friend with a similar outlook. He never stops congratulating himself and his wife on what amazing parents they are. I completely agree that his two children are absolutely wonderful. They really are thoroughly delightful children. But it is also abundantly clear that they were born with very easy, sunny temperaments. The older one is 8, and the little one is only 16 months. My friend says the only reason they are well behaved is their upbringing. And frankly, that is nonsense with a capital non.

Of course the way one chooses to approach parenthood, discipline, etc. has an effect on children's behavior. But to take all the credit for having a well-behaved child and discounting the luck of the draw? Very unreasonable indeed.

TheCatInTheHairnet Fri 15-Mar-13 13:08:05

I'm confused. If you saw the child acting out through a car window, how do you know her Mum hasn't already disciplined her before they stopped? In which case, it's quite normal to get out the car normally as its already been dealt with.

Fwiw, the worst behaved toddler I ever met has grown into the most amazing young man, who starts at Oxford in September! You're barely out of the parenting starting gates!!

searching4serenity Fri 15-Mar-13 13:09:03

Yup it's possibly a combination of luck + having had positive role models / good parents + the personality of both parent & child, how well you deal with stress, the parent & child's health, etc etc... So many factors!

So, you're a bit smug IMO.

Are you saying that all people with less than well behaved children have brought it upon themselves?

Lancelottie Fri 15-Mar-13 13:09:40

Another one here with one heedless demon and one well-behaved child.

Over the years I've come to realise that while the bolshy one is harder to deal with at the time, the well-behaved one is desperately, permanently anxious not to put a foot wrong. Now that worries me.

Snoopingforsoup Fri 15-Mar-13 13:10:12

I don't think you're being smug.
I get what you mean. It's weird how many people don't acknowledge their DC's bad behaviour.
I however have a real handful in DS and constantly have to pull him up on serious offences. It doesn't mean he's suddenly developed a placid nature and has become Perfect Peter sadly.
If you have naturally well behaved DC, you can never appreciate the nightmare of having to constantly tell your kids to behave or there will be consequences etc.
So you are maybe being slightly Unreasonable.
But I'm with you on not ignoring bad behaviour, I've seen so many parents stand there and ignore absolute brutality from their DC towards others and I've never understood why it'a acceptable to just leave them to it.

WileyRoadRunner Fri 15-Mar-13 13:10:33

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DeWe Fri 15-Mar-13 13:13:37

There's more to it than parenting.

People always commented on dd1. She would sit through things like weddings at 1yo. Flap book, pack of stickers and a pack of raisins and she'd happily stay silent next to me for up to 2 hours.
I knew and still do that I can take her anywhere and the worst thing she does is get pedantic (so if I say an hour ago, she might say "no, mum it was 70 minutes ago") which is irritating at times, but that's the worst.

Dd2 wasn't too bad, but ds likes to push the lines.

I say about them: If I said "there is a line, don't cross it"
Dd1 would not go near the line in case she accidently touched it.
Dd2 would go right up to the line, then try and persuade me to let her cross it.
Ds would take the line at a run to see how far he can get over it before he's stopped.

I also know that ds will use his brain to try and find a loop hole to exploit. Maybe he's going to be a lawyer. He also likes to test things. So if I say "don't do this because that will happen" he likes to see for himself, whereas dd1 and dd2 would happily take my word for it.

Feminine Fri 15-Mar-13 13:15:07

I didn't notice who the op was when I put down my thoughts.

op you need to stop worrying about others.

You sound like you work very hard, with very little validation from others.

Wrapping it in to a question here in AIBU? is a waste of time.

Try and meet RL mums , get an idea of what happens in other homes perhaps? smile

I'm actually kind of worried about the OP.

Her threads are obviously ways of seeking validation, given her current situation, but they usually end with her getting completely flamed. Yet she keeps posting the same kind of thing over and over, it's very masochistic.

Really OP: step away from AIBU and try to sort out your situation. You're not going to get what you need here.

FamiliesShareGerms Fri 15-Mar-13 13:22:54

I don't think you're being completely U (I had thought of starting a similar thread following a visit to a friend whose children run completely amok and she does little to stop them) but I don't think I would have worded my OP quite as you have done...

expectingno2 Fri 15-Mar-13 13:23:45

Agree a bit smug as I have erm 1 of each shall we say. I love dewe's description that is so right!

5Foot5 Fri 15-Mar-13 13:26:22

The leader specifically asked children are not allowed to run riot like last week, when some damage to the building was caused

She must have a point - if these other toddlers are going round damaging buildings - wow!

PeppermintPasty Fri 15-Mar-13 13:27:11

I noticed that too dreaming. Lots going on with this OP....

KidderminsterKate Fri 15-Mar-13 13:27:21

grin grin grin grin I had a friend like this. Mine argued and whined all the way to school.....hitting each other, moaning, running off - while hers walked beautifully holding hands.

5 years on mine walk sensibly chatting nicely and politely while her 2 snipe at each other, push and shove and whine all the way home.

tis brill as she was always a bit smug and now I can make the 'oh dear' comments wink wink

Molehillmountain Fri 15-Mar-13 13:27:21

Okay-op, suppose you take the thing in your life that you feel very sensitive about, try and work really hard on but actually can't seem to make progress on and then imagine people actually saying that its your fault for not doing things differently that things aren't going so well. You might then feel a bit irked when someone took huge amounts of credit for their success in the same area.
Of course you've worked hard to get your older dd to behave well. But there is a kind of luck involved in finding the right advice or falling upon the right strategies to help your individual child behave well. Or having had the right background to enable what comes naturally to be grlpful in getting your children to behave well. There are so many things that can derail the most committed parents in their quest to get their children to behave well. Not least the feeling that people are looking at them and judging them for doing well.
So I don't like the tone of your op. You might feel a bit more humble about the stars that have collided to provide the conditions for your success.

Tubegirl Fri 15-Mar-13 13:29:24

I actually get your point OP but unfortunately the way in which you have chosen to word your message is what has upset everyone. Is it unreasonable to expect parents to discipline children appropriately? Answer - no of course not. As with many things however, it is never that simple. For example - My DD had a meltdown in the shopping centre the other day when I pulled her out of the way of a mobility scooter. There was no time to 'reason' with her before I did it. So she had a tantrum. I couldn't deal with it there and then, I had my baby son with me who was due a feed, so I chose to talk to her about it at home. To the outsider it might look like I was choosing not to discipline her. You are free to judge as you like. Just remember, one day it might be you.

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound Fri 15-Mar-13 13:32:47

AIBU threads are very similar lately.
OP: whatever question/scenario/event aibu?
Replies: yes you are bu
OP: no no I'm not cause of xyz
Replies: you are still bu
OP: no you are all wrong you must be terrible parents/bitches/perfect

harryhausen Fri 15-Mar-13 13:37:38

It is really hard working bringing up kids to behave right. However, there's a HUGE element of luck.

My first dd was easy. Always pretty well behaved. Now at 8, she still is (although I'm waiting for payback with the teenage years)

My ds however is completely different. I've brought them in the same way, same rules. He just runs off, climbs things he shouldn't, ignores me, is pretty mean to his sister etc. I've had to implement all sorts of things with him that I never even thought of with dd. He's 5 now, and getting moderately better but I still need to be on my guard.

So yes. I think YABU. Parents need to put in the work, but you don't know what's going on underneath it all.

You sound extraordinarily smug though. I'd like to hear back from you in 5 years time to see how you've gone.

My two are well behaved and yes, I agree some of it is luck.

However, there is such a thing as too well behaved. I've seen a girl at DS's primary school, and she's acting quite normally when around the other children. When her mum appears it's like she's been switched off, she seems almost scared to put a foot wrong. I'm not sure what's going on, but the vibes don't feel right there.

maddening Fri 15-Mar-13 13:39:30

The op sounds smug as you belittle other parents and suggest that it is your good parenting and their poor parenting that is the reason for your dc good behaviour/the perceived (by yourself) bad behaviour of the other dc.

For example my dc hates singing circles - so when that 10 mins happens at a baby group he does potter and I keep an eye on him - if he started misbehaving I would discipline him. However - there is no point trying to keep him in the singing circle - at 2yrs and 1 mth there is no reasoning with him and he hates it. But he is generally well behaved - walks holding hands, stops when I say no (most of the time), comes up willingly to bed when I tell him, eats dinner beautifully and is always praised by others for his behaviour out and about. Lucky smile

He is rubbish at sleeping though - again pot luck.

You are lucky in some aspects I'm sure - it is a big mixture of luck and parenting.

ChocsAwayInMyGob Fri 15-Mar-13 13:43:15

My cousin had twins. They were raised in exactly the same way, same rules, same everything. One is doing very well in a public role and the other is a recovering alcoholic who went completely off the rails.

Sometimes it's nature, not nurture.

Don't judge a stressed out mother in a snapshot.

LadyPessaryPam Fri 15-Mar-13 13:44:40

OP I had pretty well behaved DDs too and I was strict with them. They were regularly appalled by the behaviour of their peers when they were at infants and juniors. I was gob-smacked at the number of mothers who seemed to think their kids could use them as punch-bags too.

I think it's mixture of luck and parenting though as there are some conditions that cause children to behave challengingly. However I have seen many instances over the years of children just kicking off because there were no (or totally ineffectual) boundaries.

Longdistance Fri 15-Mar-13 13:47:00

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Crawling Fri 15-Mar-13 13:50:58

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FunnysInLaJardin Fri 15-Mar-13 13:51:35

yes smug mc smug post there OP.

Emilythornesbff Fri 15-Mar-13 13:52:56

I know what you mean. It sounds like you're doing a good job with your children. And it IS amusing at the very least to hear comments like "I don't know why the little shit keeps fucking swearing" from ppl witno insight into the effects of ear behaviour on their children. To believe that it's ALL downtown luck is to absolve ourselves of responsibility for parenting our children. Of course they're affected by our behaviour.
However, I can see there is also some luck involved because children have different personalities and we have different circumstances.
Most days I think I do ok (ds is a delightful, cheerful, lively toddler and I think he was born happy) but that can't just be down to me.

Fakebook Fri 15-Mar-13 13:53:18

You should write a book.

iloveholidays Fri 15-Mar-13 13:55:19

Is this the same OP who posted about people not being able to cope with their children?

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 15-Mar-13 13:55:47

I just think it's impossible to judge when you have a five year old and a nine month old.
And I'm still curious about the car incident, how did the child manage to smack her mum as presumably she was in a car seat.

JollyYellowGiant Fri 15-Mar-13 13:59:07

DS is very well behaved. I am quite strict, but I'm convinced that his personality means he will be well behaved, rather than our parenting.

I'm equally convinced that DC2 will be a monster as they can't possibly be as placid as DS.

Squitten Fri 15-Mar-13 13:59:42

Your youngest is 9mths old - you have a LONG time ahead of you before you can be so sure that they will be perfectly behaved! I wouldn't be so certain you're doing everything brilliantly just yet.

Because one day, your demonic younger toddler might be making your life miserable on the way to school and you'll see the look on another Mum's face, watching you with her immaculate children to heel, and wondering what on EARTH kind of parent you must be to let them behave like THAT...

FunnysInLaJardin Fri 15-Mar-13 14:08:28

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Sugarice Fri 15-Mar-13 14:08:35

alisunshine I would take notice of what some have said on here about your need for approval, you're getting a pasting on the threads you're starting.

Perhaps resist the urge to post on AIBU or change your style of writing, it does come over as a little judgey.

Snoopingforsoup Fri 15-Mar-13 14:12:15

God, it's depressing reading some of this.
My boy came out a handful. I've followed every rule in every bl

ceeveebee Fri 15-Mar-13 14:16:22

Perhaps the other mother needed to bring her DM or DH along next time to help her, she clearly can't cope on her own
Can I ask ali, have you considering writing a book - I think the works needs to know more of your opinions on other people's parenting - there is so much we can all learn from you and there is only so much you can tell us on these threads. Maybe call it "the smug little mothering handbook"?

redwallday Fri 15-Mar-13 14:24:10

Total luck of the drawer. My DS is mostly an angel, walks for miles, is polite, sweet natured, never, ever hits or pushes. My DD is a mini whirlwind. Refuses to walk in the same direction as me, scratches people and bites!! Just pray your little one doesn't grow up to be a little terror. You may choke on your own words! grin

Molehillmountain Fri 15-Mar-13 14:26:28

Just been doing laundry and mulling over luck v hard work. You usually need both. Someone saying you're lucky doesn't exclude them acknowledging your hard work. Someone is lucky to have the genetic ability, educational circumstances and support to help them get to Oxford. Doesn't mean anyone doesn't credit them with working hard to get the results needed. Humble and secure people don't need to deny luck or hard work. As you were!

Sugarice Fri 15-Mar-13 14:30:41

Oh and by the way they can be the most well behaved babies, toddlers , children etc. It means nothing when they reach the teenage years and all past good behaviour will be as relevant as a chocolate fireguard if they choose to be difficult and stroppy.

HamAlive Fri 15-Mar-13 14:39:44

Well, whilst I don't disagree that children need firm and consistent boundaries, I do feel that some children are naturally more laid back and easier to discipline. Our two year old is currently being very challenging. We don't let him get away with any of it but he is very wilful. I'm glad you're not my friend OP because I've been feeling quite down about it lately and it sounds like you'd be right there with a smug comment to stick the boot in.

Oh and you 9m old is not well behaved. She's 9m old.

Dancergirl Fri 15-Mar-13 14:55:48

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PearlyWhites Fri 15-Mar-13 14:56:24

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PearlyWhites Fri 15-Mar-13 14:57:21

You as in Op

Coffeenowplease Fri 15-Mar-13 15:02:12

I was one of these well behaved children. Until I was a teenager then I got drunk,took drugs and had lots of sex with lots of men. You cant win you know.

PelvicFloorClenchReminder Fri 15-Mar-13 15:02:57

Smuggeroni cheese for tea tonight, is it?

scarlettsmummy2 Fri 15-Mar-13 15:06:25

You sound like a twat.

Catmint Fri 15-Mar-13 15:10:06

I think when you have the good luck to have a well behaved child, it still takes effort to parent well. It is not easy for anyone.

I have some friends who parent their children profoundly differently to how I parent mine. That is totally their right, but I don't have to agree with it or like it. Just as they haven't chosen to do what I do!

Am not qualified to say that their parenting style has contributed to their children's behaviour, but I have to admit I can't help thinking it sometimes.

So I think it is a mixture of luck and other factors.

Is this a nature/ nurture debate?

By the way I looked up other threads by op and I didn't see any smug ones.

I think it's mostly luck. Not totally, but mostly.

I went to a wedding this weekend and for various reasons which might out me was in sole charge of 9mo DD for the majority of the day, including the ceremony. Loads of people complimented me on her behaviour which was very nice but it was mostly luck that she wasn't shouty! And on further discussion it transpired that hardly anyone noticed that we left the ceremony twice. It also helped that DD's idea of a grand old time is sitting at a table with lots of people. Fundamentally I just got very lucky; her demeanour at music group this week was considerably less sunny!

chocoflump Fri 15-Mar-13 15:27:31

You should write a book OP, on how the rest if us can be as perfect as you and have children as perfect as yours confused

JenaiMorris Fri 15-Mar-13 15:41:10

Luck plays a reaaly big part in this, but then so does effort on the part of children's parents.

Be aware though OP that at least two people I know irl who swear blind that their children are always well behaved are completely delusional.

MTSgroupie Fri 15-Mar-13 15:47:42

OP - I too have been accused of bring 'smug' so you are not alone. Here brew.

You''ve learnt the hard way that parents aren't going to admit that their kids are the way they are because of their parenting. So they flip it around so that they are the 'norm' and yours are the oddity. It's similar to kids being picked on because they are studious.

StuntGirl Fri 15-Mar-13 16:03:53

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Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Fri 15-Mar-13 16:05:08

I don't really think you should be putting this post up until your kids are 21! Then you can say it. It is a marathon after all. Whilst my ds is pretty perfectly behaved due to luck and engagement from us. I do expect life to get more challenging as he gets older.

MTSgroupie Fri 15-Mar-13 16:11:57

...or they tell you that you are lucky.

Well, as a toddler DS hit me so I took away his comfort toy, sat him in the corner of the room and I told him that mommy and daddy don't love naughty boys and I walked away.

Each time he came forward and pretended nothing had happened I led him back to the corner. Eventually he apologized. He never did it again.

Sure, some kids have behavior problems but for the rest its down to parenting and not 'luck'.

WhatsTheBuzz Fri 15-Mar-13 16:14:44

are you joking, you hardly spent a week observing these awful
parents/children? You probably do a load of stuff that others would
disapprove of, get over yourself...

JenaiMorris Fri 15-Mar-13 16:15:09

You are joking, aren't you MTS?

MTSgroupie Fri 15-Mar-13 16:17:26

Joking? About what? (which kind of answers your question)

PelvicFloorClenchReminder Fri 15-Mar-13 16:19:02

"mommy and daddy don't love naughty boys"


ByTheWay1 Fri 15-Mar-13 16:20:52

there is a bit of luck involved, but the harder we work at parenting our kids the nicer, politer and better behaved they seem... strange... (and because we see our kids as a joint venture, our marriage is just fine too StuntGirl )- can I be smug, or am I just deluded - not that I care if I am deluded really, I'm one of those rare species..... HAPPY ...

dummad Fri 15-Mar-13 16:23:04

Not sure. I sometimes feel a bit like this but on the whole I just reckon I'm lucky. I do feel a bit smug though when I see wet parents with badly behaved kids. Some are just having rings run round them. But then I wonder how I'd fare with a monster and think twice.

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound Fri 15-Mar-13 16:26:21

Giving a child a complex of conditional love from a parent (ie mummy doesn't love naughty boys) can have a detrimental effect on a child's sense of security and self view.

abbyfromoz Fri 15-Mar-13 16:30:59

Yeah i am going to say i have a huge amount of smugness when it comes to this but usually only in private (pretty sure others here can admit to gloating to their dh after a visit to friend's house?) don't we all think our children are mire special in some way? I don't think it us 100% down to luck... But i will let friends with unruly kids believe this as it makes them feel better...
Our DD is very strong minded. There's just a way of dealing with it to get the best out of her. Certainly not a 'onesizefitsall' way of parenting.
That being said i don't think it's my place to tell other people how to bring up their children (to their face!)
Imo parents (consciously or subconsciously) make a choice about what they can handle... If that means they are willing to get up all through the night to shove a bottle in their 18m/o's mouth rather than a couple of nights of crying and self soothing- then that's your choice... You have to deal with it not me...
That being said you can't win every battle with children and have to accept a lot if behaviour is very much a part if the growing up process... Hitting at that age... A bit odd in my opinion.

SolomanDaisy Fri 15-Mar-13 16:31:50

Fuck me, mummy and daddy don't love naughty boys? Good luck with those therapy bills.

MTSgroupie Fri 15-Mar-13 16:33:20

grin at the kimbaya approach to parenting.

MTSgroupie Fri 15-Mar-13 16:34:16

.... kumbaya

FrauMoose Fri 15-Mar-13 16:38:22

I think it's more than a pelvic floor that's being tightly clenched above...

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 15-Mar-13 16:39:35

'*Mummy and daddy don't love naughty boys'*
And you call that good parenting. shock sad.

StuntGirl Fri 15-Mar-13 16:39:52

It wasn't aimed at you bytheway. The OP posts loads of smug posts about her superior parenting skills and her troubled relationships with her ex and current partners. Perhaps some of these other parents are smugly wondering how the hell ali can't sort her personal relationships out. After all, it's just a bit of hard work and laying the proper foundations.

Swings and roundabouts innit.

flippinada Fri 15-Mar-13 16:40:04

I can pretty much guarantee MTS junior will be posting on MN or the equivalent in 20 years or so, on the stately homes thread.

JenaiMorris Fri 15-Mar-13 16:41:17

I take it he's still quite little MTS.

Will you tell him that Mommy and Daddy don't love thickos, to keep him on his toes at school?

Although I still think you're pulling our collective leg. Nobody thinks saying shit like that is OK, do they? confused

Hopasholic Fri 15-Mar-13 16:43:04

So much for unconditional love MTSgroupie
What kind of message does that send!? 'Mummy only loves you if you're well behaved' Good luck with that when they fuck up and daren't come to you.

flippinada Fri 15-Mar-13 16:47:24

I hope so too jenai because the alternative is really quite disturbing.

JenaiMorris Fri 15-Mar-13 16:48:24

MTS is clearly winding us up but just in case she isn't I can't believe that anyone thinks like that unless there were issues of some sort in their own childhood.

So we shouldn't give her a kicking.

pansyflimflam Fri 15-Mar-13 16:52:23

smug as....................................................

WestieMamma Fri 15-Mar-13 16:52:28

My mum raised 6 kids and was extremely strict, back in the day when it was normal to get a slipper across your backside if you were naughty. The first 5 were/are all extremely well behaved. The youngest was an absolute nightmare, to the point that my mum has always said that if he'd been her first, he still would have been her last.

KatieMiddleton Fri 15-Mar-13 16:55:11

You are the best OP. Have you thought about writing a parenting book? Then I could read where I'm going wrong at my leisure.

I'm likely to miss any more of your pearls of parenting wisdom on here because I am going to hide your future threads until i am worthy.

HollyBerryBush Fri 15-Mar-13 16:57:31

I'm strict, far stricter than my peers.

I remember those days where they children fought like cat and dog and I used to gaze at all the little Enid Blyton families, who weren't fighting, were sharing and being generally nice to each other >sigh<

FunnysInLaJardin Fri 15-Mar-13 17:02:15

MTS my DS2 who is 3 is, shall we say, spirited. He is very difficult to discipline as he thinks everything is a huge joke and trys to make you laugh along with him when being told off. We have to spend a lot of time trying to persuade him to behave. I think that you were very lucky that you only had one incident to deal with and after that he behaved. That is down to the individual child IMO and not your parenting.

Also I would never say that we didn't love our DC ever at all. I would say you are being naughty and I don't like you much at the moment, but not love? Never. Maybe I am too soft hmm

SoniaGluck Fri 15-Mar-13 17:04:56

MTS is clearly winding us up

I really hope so. If not, hmm

Pagwatch Fri 15-Mar-13 17:05:43

My children are incredibly well behaved. I worked really hard at parenting. Did lots of thing well, made lots of mistakes.
It's still luck though.
I have friends who parent just like me and their children are different to mine. And some of my DCs good behaviour is a result of my having to have really strict rules because of ds2s SN - so at times I wish they had had more cheeky lippy fun rather than having to be good as gold while I wrestle with ds2s challenges.

If your kids are fantastic enjoy it. If your parenting works, enjoy it. But allow for the fact that all sorts of shit can mess with the best efforts of the loving and the well intentioned parent.

SneakyNinja Fri 15-Mar-13 17:07:54

I'm a shit parent and my Ds is a bloody dream. So either it's luck, or shit parenting is the way forward.

FunnysInLaJardin Fri 15-Mar-13 17:09:20

Stunt my thoughts exactly. Take a look at your own backyard first

D0G Fri 15-Mar-13 17:17:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 15-Mar-13 17:18:24

grin SneakyNinja.
I didn't have MN when ds was growing up, but reading some of the stuff I did/didn't do makes me the crappest parent ever.
Sometimes too little information is better than too much, I just parented instinctively, and ds at nearly 18 has turned out rather lovely.

tallulah Fri 15-Mar-13 17:19:49

I had to check and this is the same poster who thinks people should be able to cope with their own children alone hmm Clearly didn't take on board what most people said then that such a big age gap between children can make life so much easier.

I was a really really well behaved child, because I was ruled with fear and threats. I daren't put a foot wrong. Like others I made up for it in my teens by heavy drinking and lots of sex. As an adult I have a huge number of anxiety-related problems.

I have 5 children; 4 of them grown up. We were congratulating ourselves on our clearly superior parenting of the eldest 4 when our little one was born. She has proved to be a real trial, and DC4 has hugely gone off the rails since turning 19 despite having been a very compliant and well behaved little boy.

People tell me my kids are lucky because they have the same parents who have been married to eachother for almost 30 years <shrugs>.--but of course these things take work, don't they OP?--

flippinada Fri 15-Mar-13 17:20:45

My DS was atrociously behaved and used to have horrific, humdinging tantrums when he was aged 2-4.

Now aged 8 he still has his moments but is generally lovely, kind, well behaved and is doing well at school.

So I'm either a shit parent or a brilliant one. Not sure which....

Amykins Fri 15-Mar-13 17:31:41

Perhaps when people say you are lucky, they are in fact paying you a compliment, maybe trying to be friendly, trying to begin a conversation. I am sure they are not trying to annoy you.

AngelWreakinHavoc Fri 15-Mar-13 17:39:35

It seems every other day you have an aibu on the go op.
I find it quite strange and I am starting to question the sincerity of your posts.

D0G Fri 15-Mar-13 17:40:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngelWreakinHavoc Fri 15-Mar-13 17:44:06

Just read a couple of pages and seems I'm not the only one who has noticed this. hmm

WorriedMummy73 Fri 15-Mar-13 18:12:52

Smuggy Smuggerson much! I have 3dc. DD (the eldest) is amazingly well-behaved. Always a smiley, happy baby/toddler/child. Starting to get a little attitude now she's 11, but nothing compared to some of her friends! DS1 (8) used to be the bane of my life - around 2/3 used to punch/kick/scratch/bite me when in a temper. Still very highly strung, but such a loving little boy. DS2 (4) is an absolute monster! Can't sit still, stomps around the house, has bitten people at nursery (I nearly died) and can generally behave like a little s**t when the mood takes him. I love them all dearly and have treated them all the same. I always joke that if I'd had DS1 first, there would have been no siblings! Luck of the draw, I'm afraid.

recall Fri 15-Mar-13 18:23:07

alisunshine29. Maybe your children have more autonomous minds..

JenaiMorris Fri 15-Mar-13 18:28:05

yy Amy

This is another of those AIBUs that demonstrates just how easily some people find offence in the most innocuous of smalltalk.

Domjolly Fri 15-Mar-13 18:33:23

I worked with chikdren since i was 16 its not usually down to luck

Normally down to boundries
Hard work
Rountine ect

idshagphilspencer Fri 15-Mar-13 18:36:32

My parenting mantra
Don't take all of the credit....don't take all of the blame.

lljkk Fri 15-Mar-13 18:46:04

Would have had a lot of YANBU responses if only OP had worded it differently.
I (am perverse I know) enjoy a good outrageous smuggery thread, but am managing to feel sorry for OP because of the bashing she's had.
If you have enough children for long enough you learn to take credit or blame for very little.

lljkk Fri 15-Mar-13 18:46:35

(Snap @ idshag!)

Amykins Fri 15-Mar-13 19:02:13

People tell me how pretty my daughter is. I do not get annoyed. I love to hear it, sometimes people are nice.

Gingerodgers Fri 15-Mar-13 19:08:07

What worra said,

blackeyedsusan Fri 15-Mar-13 19:19:29

<polishes halo>

dd's behaviour is exemplary. she is polite, kind, gentle, caring, sharing...

<basks in reflected glory>

oh and then there is ds... who can be kind, and share but also has asd.. oh and hit and kicked me and attempted to run away at home time due to the stresses of school. not all children are the same. he was dignosed at 4.5, which is quite early given the process that we had to go through... you just do not know what the cause is for bad behaviour, unless you are there all the time.

crashdoll Fri 15-Mar-13 19:47:03

You do post a lot of thread in AIBU. I think this is your first stealth boast though, so congrats. Here, have an arse biscuit biscuit

CokeFan Fri 15-Mar-13 20:05:01

The way I read the OP it's not so much the behaviour of the children that she's seeing a problem with but the (lack of) reaction of the parents. Of course all children push the boundaries at times but if there's never any consequences then even worse behaviour is a likely outcome.

Pandemoniaa Fri 15-Mar-13 20:21:22

Unfortunately, your post comes across like an ill-punctuated smugfest, OP.

I'm fairly sure that this isn't what you intended but to merely criticise the behaviour of the other parents you encountered whilst congratulating yourself on your allegedly faultless parenting was an unhelpful way to illustrate the somewhat more valid points you wanted to make.

rainrainandmorerain Fri 15-Mar-13 20:32:43

There's effort and luck involved in having well behaved children. And yes, biddable charming 5 year olds can turn out to be extremely challenging teens.

Ali, you are spending a lot of time watching other parents, judging and then coming on here to start threads (people
should be able to manage their kids on their own, now this) -

Fine, whatever. But you have also posted about your own feelings of exhaustion and stress as a parent, related to you doing virtually everything yourself with no help - AND that you are trying to make friends at baby groups etc as you don't know anyone living locally.

If you are continually watching and judging other mums, that vibe is going to come across whether you want it to or not. And how do you think that will work?

i think you can decide - do you want to be lonely judgey mum, or will you cut people some slack and maybe get some understanding and support in return?

crashdoll Fri 15-Mar-13 20:39:10

I'm going to start a thread about how annoying it is when people compliment me on my extreme beauty. This has never happened. I mean, it's not hard to comb your hair and wear make-up is it?

INeverSaidThat Fri 15-Mar-13 20:45:44

Oh, if only it were that easy........ confused

crashdoll Fri 15-Mar-13 20:47:46

INeverSaidThat Was that to me?

PrincessScrumpy Fri 15-Mar-13 20:49:37

I've been told how lucky I am dd is polite and says please an thank you... Seem, she didn't come out of the womb saying it, she was taught to say it and dh and I always do too.

idiuntno57 Fri 15-Mar-13 20:53:46

smug smug smug

nb my kids are very well behaved. and exceptionally gifted. and I am beautiful, humble and good.

INeverSaidThat Fri 15-Mar-13 20:54:48

No crash. It was in response to the OP's good parenting = good kids

Thanks for checking though... I much rather people ask than think I have been snarky or rude smile

SneakyNinja Fri 15-Mar-13 21:19:59

Idshag that is a brilliant piece of advice! I will shamelessly steal that one for the next time DS finishes all his veggies before throwing his plate at the wall grin

ecuadorgirl Fri 15-Mar-13 21:33:19

Ever heard of a bit of empathy? Or y'know, understanding that children are different, if you get an 'easy' one you ARE lucky. I'd you get a stubborn one, then it is harder. I had three lovely, easygoing DC. My first two were easy. Then I had twins, the fourth, my only son, was easy. My daughter? Not so much. Luck is a big part.

GirlFryDay Fri 15-Mar-13 21:36:41

I think its luck and a moment in time too.. .once i was in sainsbos packing my groceries at the checkout and and elderly lady came up to me congratulating me on my kids' behaviour...
She absolutely would not have done so had she seen them 10 minutes earlier..

I once heard the phrase 'dont take all the credit and dont take all the blame' - i think that's a good rule of thumb for me.. for now!!

Everything can change in a heartbeat OP...

BonaDrag Fri 15-Mar-13 21:40:57

You should never slag off other people's children as you never know how your own will turn out.

I hope you got all your smugness out in that very long OP, OP.

WhatKindofFool Fri 15-Mar-13 21:47:27

Some children are spirited with a strong character.

MotheringShites Fri 15-Mar-13 22:51:58

Methinks OP has deeper issues.

MotheringShites Fri 15-Mar-13 22:53:27

And if she'd like to kick off her judgey pants, there is a whole world of support here. Just stop with the smug.

elportodelgato Fri 15-Mar-13 23:00:11

I am with the OP on this, I might just be lucky but my DC are well behaved generally. Partly because it is expected of them and always has been and I do not tolerate bad behaviour. I've seen what some of my friends put up with from their DC and frankly I don't think being hit or kicked or disrespected is part of the job description of a parent and I just do not tolerate it. I don't care if I am smug, my DC NEVER jump on a dining table mid-dinner like other kids I know and that is partly (mainly) me being a hardass about manners and behaviour.

Pigsmummy Fri 15-Mar-13 23:00:13

I understand what you mean, parents need to believe in themselves more (as you say special needs aside). Hitting parents isn't acceptable behaviour......

Pigsmummy Fri 15-Mar-13 23:09:14

WOW! Never seen a post with so many deleted responses. Angry parents= angry children??????.... I don't know for sure because the responses have been deleted..........

StuntGirl Fri 15-Mar-13 23:49:01

Who went crazy with the delete button?!

I stand by my original point. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

LazyMonkeyButler Fri 15-Mar-13 23:58:32

Firstly, YABVU, you are lucky.

Secondly, DS1 is 16 - was a nightmare very spirited little boy at primary age but is now a well mannered, polite young man (and that's with Aspergers too). DS2 is 12, as a small boy I was forever complimented on his lovely behaviour and manners. His school reports have always stated how he's a "lovely boy" - at home, he's all hormones & tantrums!

Never be smug as a parent - it'll usually come back to bite you on the bum at some point!

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 16-Mar-13 01:29:08

I think Op has reported the posts that haven't agreed with her,
And MNHQ have been a little bit agreeable with the delete button.
So she's just won the the Mumsnet perfect parent award.
Well done OP.
Three cheers
Hip Hip...
Oh fuck it, I CBA wth the Hooray.

Emilythornesbff Sat 16-Mar-13 06:21:54

In op's defence, she hasn't actually bitched about other parents or their children. Just made an observation/ criticism.
I think most ppl would agree that children need boundaries and guidance.
The post might seem a bit smug but op hasn't said that "the rest of us" are shit parents.
Of course we can disagree with each other, but I think op's come in for some undue harshness in a few of the posts.
Just sayin' eh! brew

ChaChaDigregorio Sat 16-Mar-13 06:41:24

I am a manager in a unit working with young people with emotional and behavioural difficulties. I have worked with over 600 young people over 10 years. In over 90 % of cases inappropriate or poor parenting skills were the root cause. They range from over parenting (resulting in rebellious teenagers, often with oppositional disorder) to neglect. The two main causes are: parents who lacked interest when the children were 0-4 resulting in inability to form interests as adults and therefore lacking the ability to motivate themselves and secondly lack of boundaries set from a young age resulting in chaotic and disordered behaviours. We have young people from a wide spectrum of society and from all local areas. Some whose parents invested heavily in private education but who invested far less into their childrens emotional development.

Of course all children are different and have different personalities and in general I would wait until a young person is at least 20 before judging how well a parent has done (possibly 30 for men!) but if you have a child who is essentially well behaved, loving and kind but with a sense of adventure and an ability to test boundaries then you are doing a bloody good job - and thank you because I don't need any more referrals!

Morloth Sat 16-Mar-13 07:01:06

You seem to be getting kind of desperate OP.

I can't decide if I find you obnoxious or sad.

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound Sat 16-Mar-13 07:16:32

Oh I had a comment deleted. I feel so bad ass.

toddlerama Sat 16-Mar-13 07:38:44

I see what the op is getting at. I does gall slightly to be almost criticised/dismissed as lucky by the same parents who told me I was far too strict a few years ago...

lesmisfan Sat 16-Mar-13 07:49:13

You are very very smug. I am firm, consistent and I deal with bad behaviour appropriately but one of my children is the one flat on the floor screaming, the one going stiff and refusing to go in the carseqt the one throwing things and is the nightmare nobody wants to be near. I am firm as can be, I deal with him appropriately, we leave places or avoid places where there is likely to br a meltdown, actions have consequences. He is getting better, and eventually he will be fine. I know that because I have other children, judge me all you like but until you have the one who takes every ounce of your being to behave you haven't a clue. He is also by far the brightest and most imaginative of my children and tbh I wouldn't want him any other way.

HeadingHome Sat 16-Mar-13 08:12:01

My daughter is the best behaved thing in the world.

My dear friends daughter is.... not.

We are identical in our parenting techniques and ideals.

I consider myself VERY lucky!!

Morloth Sat 16-Mar-13 08:27:26

I thought I was an excellent parent, and then I got pregnant with DS2.

That kid has been pissed off since conception.

StillStuck Sat 16-Mar-13 09:01:24

I tend to assume that a child who is always perfectly well behaved is rather dull and boring. A bright child is going to have a bit of spark and mischief about them.

That said, I do think consistency and sensible routines can help. My nephew is a sweet boy but misbehaves a lot but I am sure a lot of that is because he is very tired (age 3, often not in bed before 10). I think there is a large element of luck in that too though, my son goes to sleep by half 7 every night but think that is just luck as I really felt quite clueless and he just seemed to set a good sleep routine all on his own.

"pissed off since conception" grin

Damash12 Sat 16-Mar-13 21:38:36

I've not read all the comments but from the original post I think yeah it is unreasonable to be pissed off you have been called lucky. You should be pleased others recognise your child's good behaviour. However, i agree 100% that boundaries and strong parenting get you well behaved children. I don't think you are being smug, I think your doing the right things. I am always receiving comments on how good my 4.5 yr old behaves. This is because from an early age we taught him right from wrong, we taught him to say please and Thankyou, sorry, kindness to others, when to sit and listen.
He has a friend at school that recently came for tea and this child was also polite and thoughtful. Having spoken to his mum, she told me her husband is quite strict.
After this weeks parent evening the teacher couldn't have given us a better report on our sons attitude. Just recently I have seen in a number of children who's behaviour I simply would not tolerate. 1 child who must be no more than 3 biting her mum's leg and basically running riot while waiting to collect sibling. At a playgroup last week a child walked up to the pram shelter and kicked the glass and at a theme park a young boy wasn't tall enough for the ride so was taken off and preceded to smack his dad around the head. At a park a really small toddler was slow going down a slide and a boy from my son's school walked up and kicked her!!! The common denominator - non of the parents said a bloody thing!!!It bloody infuriates me. You reap what you sow and it's not being kind to ignore bad behaviour. So personally I think you should be told Well Done for making every effort to ensure your children are well behaved. It's a pity lots of others don't.

flippinada Sat 16-Mar-13 22:08:18

What is it with parents of small children who think they have this parenting lark all sewn up?

You're barely off the starting line, for goodness sake.

Damash12 Sat 16-Mar-13 23:21:55

Flippinaida-You are absolutely right. I am and things could change in the blink of an eye and my 8 week old Ds 2 could turn out to be nothing like my up to now ds1 who has always been has good as gold. I am not saying I am a perfect parent (far from it) and I don't think the op was either but what I am saying is I choose to challenge and not accept bad behaviour and that's not me thinking I have it all sewn up it's me wanting the best for my children in the long run. Why should a child hit their parents and it be ok, it's not ok the other way round. Is it ok for toddlers to damage property that isn't theirs and the mothers to just carry on chatting amongst themselves? Even if ds2 is of a different nature he will still be told what is right from wrong.

flippinada Sat 16-Mar-13 23:51:28

I agree that it's good to have boundaries in place but parenting isn't black and white and all children are different. You're seeing a snapshot, not the whole picture.

My son aged 2-5 was a complete terror. I frequently felt exhausted, at my wits end; most of all that I was a terrible parent. No doubt others thought I didn't set boundaries, didn't care, didn't do things right. Thing is, I did do all those things you're "supposed" to.

Anyway, at 8 he couldn't be more different, happy, well balanced, bright, confident- and doing well at school . What am I doing right? I'll be honest, I have no idea.

Now, I still have a long way to go and a lot to learn, butI have learnt one thing, and that's not to make snap judgements.

In short, wait until you've passed the finishing line before you start telling others how to run the race.

flippinada Sat 16-Mar-13 23:54:37

Although I think with parenting, you never do quite cross the finishing line, so maybe not the best analogy!

Damash12 Sun 17-Mar-13 01:02:14

Again, I am in no way saying I know what is the best way to parent and dread what could happen I the coming years. I am also aware that there are many many causes and reasons for a child's behaviour that I would not see. What I am referring to and what I think the original op was referring to is behaviour I do see that isn't challenged. When the child deliberately kicked the pram shelter, his mum carried on walking, not a word. My 4year old frowned and said "ah that's naughty" now why does he know and why do I know that it's he wouldn't have considered doing the same thing and why do I also know that if he did I would address it, I would not ignore it. Like the boy who kicked the toddler, his mum saw it and did bugger all but a give a pathetic half hearted threat of going home. As it turns out it's the same child on a behavioural plan at school for hitting his classmates errmmmm lovely and even more reason for his mum to have addressed/challenged it. I understand and appreciate we can't control everything our children do but for some I think it boils down to taking the path of least resistance.

MusicalEndorphins Sun 17-Mar-13 06:14:30

"Luck" (for lack of a better word) is involved. It is a combination of nurture and nature. Many children turn out very differently from how they were raised to be. You could have a another child who will be rude and willful, or that woman could have another child who is of perfect character and manners.

Whatalotofpiffle Sun 17-Mar-13 06:53:57

Oh my god, why is she smug!!! I have people say to me I am lucky but I am consistent and work hard at it, and most of the time people say I am lucky while their children are making them look like push overs hitting them etc

I look after my friends children and she llaughs at her children's behaviour then says I'm lucky!!

Backtobedlam Sun 17-Mar-13 07:49:14

YANBU OP, can't understand why some comments are so harsh. Yes there is an element of luck, but also a lot comes down to parenting. I've seen so many parents just ignoring lo's behaviour when out, and saying 'he/she is so difficult' whilst stood chatting and effectively letting their child run riot! OP isn't saying she's a perfect parent and children will never misbehave/rebel, just that childrens behaviour can be influenced by parenting, which is definately true.

ByTheWay1 Sun 17-Mar-13 08:00:12

mmmmmm.... and the harder we work at it the luckier we seem to become....

jamdonut Sun 17-Mar-13 08:48:20

There is no doub that all children are different and luck is some part of the answer.

But parent's expectations of what their children are allowed to do is part of the problem.

If you expect your children to be well behaved and have manners you will have spent a long time instilling those values,and will act accordingly if your children are not doing what you expect of them.

If you expect "boys to be boys" and girls to be little princesses,they will exhibit those features,because you allow them to.

If you allow your children to run round supermarkets/restaurants/other public places generally being annoying to others, expect people to look at you, expecting you to do something about it!

FleeBee Sun 17-Mar-13 08:55:16

I've been volunteering at a school breakfast club & there are 2 children who are badly behaved & I did wonder how they've been able to get away with it. At a staff meeting it transpired that the 2 children have very complex issues at home.
I truly had no idea, as I've been lucky growing up, I would never judge in a moment there are some terrible things going on behind the scenes and children will react to that. I'm lucky those children not so lucky

flippinada Sun 17-Mar-13 09:00:44

FleeBee - exactly.

Some people just can't see beyond their own experiences and assume bad behaviour is just down to lax parenting.

ByTheWay1 Sun 17-Mar-13 09:20:06

Equally sometimes people just can't see beyond their own experiences and assume good behaviour is just down to luck......

flippinada Sun 17-Mar-13 09:28:22

Bytheway, have you read all the posters above who have described how their children, who are bought up the same way, behave differently?

SanityClause Sun 17-Mar-13 09:37:38

I arrogantly believed that DD1's good behaviour was all down to my superior parenting skills....... until DD2 came along!

She is a dream, now, at 11, but at 3, she was an absolute bloody nightmare.

jamdonut Sun 17-Mar-13 09:45:05

Fleebee...I work in a school, and I am well aware of many children with "issues". But those issues shoudn't be an excuse for bad behaviour.

It can explain it, and you can empathise with it, but bad behaviour should not be excused or considered acceptable.

ByTheWay1 Sun 17-Mar-13 09:47:27

Yep flippinada - and I know that despite all efforts in bringing mine up the same way I have been more relaxed with my second due to the fact of having experience as a parent.... so I'm not sure how kids can be brought up identically...

plus, I did say "sometimes" as you said "some" people....

In my view - and experience - some bad behaviour IS down to lax parenting and I resent the fact that I'm told I'm "lucky" by folks in RL who do sit there saying X is soooooo spirited and don't bother intervening when their kid hits someone, or breaks things ....

whereas I've been playing with mine, stopping bad behaviour before it escalates, getting up to move stuff they found "interesting to play with" but was fragile, and then being told I'm LUCKY......

flippinada Sun 17-Mar-13 10:12:19

I see what you're saying, and I'm not having a go Bytheway - your have two children so you're way ahead of me in the parenting stakes!

I did all the things you are supposed to do (set boundaries, instil manners, say please and thank you etc) but DS behaviour was very challenging between the ages of 2 and 5. I was often exhausted and sometimes in tears wondering what I was doing wrong - it was really, really hard.

Now he's 8 and lovely!

cornypony Sun 17-Mar-13 10:12:41

so you would rather people told you that you were a great parent than made a comment on how nicely your dc behave?
Have you considered that you have low self-esteem?

ByTheWay1 Sun 17-Mar-13 10:21:03

It is nice to be told your kids are well behaved, but to be told that you have had no effect on it, that it is purely down to luck, is exasperating.

Haha your innocence is sweet.
At your DC ages my DC were models of good behaviour, perfect sleep, healthy eating, milestone crashing, perfection.
DD's teenage rebellion was utterly spectacular, news worthy, even.
DS is as responsible as a middle aged man.
Eventually the DC will decide on their behaviours and its only the luck of the draw after that.
Do return when your youngest is 17 and finding themself and admit, like I do, how much of a smugarse you are on this OP.

simplesusan Sun 17-Mar-13 10:38:43

I agree with you op.

If I had been the teacher I would had said to the mother,
"Mrs X take that toy home, we do not allow children to bring in toys to school."

The mother was being totally unreasonable excusing herself of parental responsibility and passing the buck to another adult. Boundaries and discipline need to be consistant, any chinks and the kids will pick up and exploit them.

Equally with the hitting senario. Totally inexcusable. You must teach your kids that distracting a driver of any vehicle is never acceptable. At 5 she is able to understand this concept.She is heading for disaster.

Emilythornesbff Sun 17-Mar-13 11:13:31

I think it's natural for children's behaviour to be challenging though. (certainly my fabulous 2 y o is full on) Our expectations need t be realistic don't they? We need to try to understand where our dc are moving from and what h
All children will push boundaries and "misbehave". That doesn't mean they will have long term issues, it's just normal, but if we do nothing to guide and nurture them, we're all in trouble. I feel I try to get it "right" with my dcs but am not above offering choc buttons to survive a supermarket run in peace and safety.

Moving away from the point now I suppose, just been over thinking while feeding dd with a toddler sitting on my shoulders!

Emilythornesbff Sun 17-Mar-13 11:15:07

What on earth that third sentence is I don't know!

Damash12 Sun 17-Mar-13 11:16:44

Byte way- totally agree with you. The original op wasn't talking about how good her parenting was and how fab her children are going to turn out to be in 10 years time. The issue here is the challenging if wilful/ naughty behaviour. If my son hit I'd tell him it was wrong. If toys shouldn't be taken into school, they wouldn't be. If he deliberately hit, broke, damaged anything I would address it. If I see a child having a full on tantrum in the supermarket I don't think bad parent ahead, I sympathise as it as happened to us all - and don't even get me started on the parents that deal with a tantrum with a clip round the tab hole, but that's a different thread. Now, same child having tantrum and pulling things off shelf and parent just leaves the stuff on the floor and tells little Henry to come on, really pisses me off. Same again, child hits mum/dad and "oh dear, never mind" you can bet that child will be hitting another child soon enough. No-one can predict the future behaviour but we can tackle the present. That isn't luck it's parenting!

cory Sun 17-Mar-13 13:55:56

Are you ok, OP? You do seem to be starting these "Oh, look at me, isn't my parenting better superior"-threads at the moment.

Buddhagirl Sun 17-Mar-13 14:24:03

Yanbu, well done you for bringing up well behaved children! If other people fail to discipline properly that is their down fall, the family and society suffer add a result, let alone the child's emotional well-being. I like your style.

nkf Sun 17-Mar-13 14:29:11

When people tell me my kids are lovely, I always feel very lucky. I really cannot understand just what I did to deserve such darlings. So I wouldn't be annoyed. I know I'm lucky.

Amykins Sun 17-Mar-13 16:57:07

nkf - I know what you mean. I do think people are trying to be kind/friendly/nice to the OP.

Shoppinglist Sun 17-Mar-13 17:02:03

It's a little bit early to count your chickens.

Divinyl Sun 17-Mar-13 17:17:29

...So imagine if it was you. 2 DCs, on the way to school where you need to arrive approximately on time, playing up in the car and stuck in traffic, which is going to hold you up and make everyone that little bit more ratty. No knowledge about the sort of morning everyone has had up to that point.

You don't see any of what happens in the meantime, just the subsequent arrival in the car park. Older C is still ratty but goodness knows what other demands there are going to be on this mum's time right after the school run, for which she may already be late and stressed.

There's plenty to be said for consistency and pulling over and having words, the 'When you stop, I will drive...' approach, and yes, hitting in the car is a Bad Thing, but is it ALWAYS practical to do that, especially when getting to school without major humiliation, and then wherever else you need to be, ditto, is really the matter of top priority, probably with quite a bit of resistance from the DCs? Maybe you might find yourself in those shoes, once in a while - even if you're doing everything right. Just a thought, based on how getting fed, dressed and out every day sometimes goes in our house.

idshagphilspencer Sun 17-Mar-13 17:23:06

I would save your breath......I doubt the OP is listening.....

Molehillmountain Sun 17-Mar-13 19:01:25

It's very rare to find luck or hard work successful in isolation. Pretty much everything takes a healthy dose of both and it's good to be humble enough to know this, I would say.

Pagwatch Sun 17-Mar-13 19:07:25

And people forget that having parents who modelled good parenting, who encouraged and supported thoughtful discussion, being free from extraneous pressures like money worries or ill health are also luck..

Owllady Sun 17-Mar-13 19:15:44

my middle one was a complete nightmare when he was little and at 11 is really a very nice well rounded boy and everyone is now jealous of me
<swishs tail>
I have a little one though that is a blady nightmare atm and my eldest has challenging behaviour as she is on the sutistic spectrum and has SLd ex set her rahh

so erm I can really not comment

and anyone that comments on me, well ROFL grin have them for half an hour. I don't have a queue <looks out of window>

Molehillmountain Sun 17-Mar-13 19:28:41

Pagwatch- you're so right. I get so riled when people take such a narrow view on what luck means. It's a bit more than the lottery ticket style luck. If it weren't a mortal sin to start a thread on a thread I'd be tempted to start a whole new one!

Pagwatch Sun 17-Mar-13 19:31:02

Was just going to add that I agreed with you Molehill - a bit of humility is never amiss. Otherwise fate tends to shit on our head.
I was smuggy smuggerson until I got DS2..

Molehillmountain Sun 17-Mar-13 19:35:38

I hear you! Dd1 slept and ate well. My humility was underdeveloped and so very little of that was attributed to luck. In fairness, my confidence was low too. Now-little more confident and a lot more humble. Thank you FC 2 and 3, serious illness during pregnancy and two years of sleep drop for those valuable life lessons wink

Molehillmountain Sun 17-Mar-13 19:36:38

DC 2 and 3 - only one FC!

Pagwatch Sun 17-Mar-13 20:41:59


Yfronts Sun 17-Mar-13 21:39:27

All my boys are very well behaved too. I have been told often that they are a credit to me. I agree with consistent boundaries but also use lots of praise and the naughty step on occasion.

However I would say that my infant/toddler aged would be effected if they went to bed 15+ mins late. I know most children have better stamina and cope well with later bed times but mine don't. Most of my friends kids run on duracell batteries!

My children are truly wearing when they are exhausted, lacking in sleep, very hungry or ill. Even then they still have regular boundaries and I try and resolve things through early nights/day off play group/calpol/rest. Those days can be very long sometimes despite my kids being well behaved the rest of the time.

I tend to see upset kids as having unmet needs in one form or another - be it attention/health/food/stimulation/boundaries/love/regular routines etc

Yfronts Sun 17-Mar-13 21:43:07

Also children are born with personalities and by nature some are easier then others despite being treated the same.

alisunshine29 Mon 18-Mar-13 10:31:52

OP back for another bashing...
Don't you all think that by saying 'your child is well behaved, therefore they're extremely boring' is the same as me saying 'your child is naughty, therefore they must be thick?' (which I have not said, and do not think - for the record). My eldest has a fantastic personality and is full of mischief but the difference is - she knows to stop if/when asked to and does not get arsey about having to. Also, I don't think that any two children can truly be bought up the same. There will be differences in their parents relationship with each other/the children, the childs place in the family will make a difference, there will be differences on when/if the parents work and how much childcare the child attends. The majority of people say that subsequent children are worse behaved, and had they been the first they'd have been the last etc. Perhaps that's because with subsequent children it's not as easy to maintain standards as it was when you only had one child to parent? To assume it's because that subsequent child is a 'demon' as one of you so lovingly said, and it's nothing to do with you, is just plain ignorant in my opinion.

alisunshine29 Mon 18-Mar-13 10:35:13

Oh and I don't claim that myself, or my children, are perfect. Eldest didn't sleep through til she was 3.5 years old and youngest is up 3-5 times per night. But I don't go bleating on to others about how lucky they are that their child sleeps through when they may well have spent weeks doing 'rapid return' or whatever to get their children that way.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 18-Mar-13 10:36:14

Have you actually read the thread Op? confused.
Who said well behaved children were boring, for instance?
You've totally missed everybodies point.

alisunshine29 Mon 18-Mar-13 10:39:33

Many people have said they'd rather have their spirited child than my boring one who does as they're asked.

Feminine Mon 18-Mar-13 10:41:23

What you really need op is a hug and a cuppa.

All these silly threads ...confused <<sighs>> honestly...

cory Mon 18-Mar-13 10:45:41

My parents always used to say that the most difficult child is the last because that is when you stop having them. There is a lot of truth in that.

Though in my case, our eldest was actually the most difficult; just shows that I'm the eternal optimist. grin

And for the record, she is difficult in exactly the same way as my mother is difficult and that her dad was difficult; they have pretty well the same personality, the same problems, the same reactions and (it is becoming increasingly clear) the same MH problems.

There are things I can do to help dd to deal better with her personality- I can teach her social skills and ways of handling stress, but other things I cannot change about her and that noone has been able to change for generations.

Ds has a totally different take on life; his reactions make sense to me, because he is like me.

cory Mon 18-Mar-13 10:47:25

aliunsunshine, I think the question people are asking themselves is not why you don't bleat on about luck but why you do keep starting threads about how bad/helpless/misguided other parents are

are you sure you are ok?

alisunshine29 Mon 18-Mar-13 11:04:13

I have not used the words nor inferences bad/helpless/misguided once. Nor do I 'keep starting threads' about other parents; there have been two in several months. I just feel sad for the children that are the subject of those two posts that they are obviously unhappy and that isn't going to change because their parents honestly believe that it is just luck that has led to me having a well behaved child(ren) and them not.

Feminine Mon 18-Mar-13 11:14:33

Please listen to what people are saying here ali

Its really not so much about your threads. Its more to do with the theme.

Many posters have said that you need to find a bit of help IRL.

Meet some more parents, why don't you check your local page?

I'm sure that most of your parenting fears would calm down, given the chance! smile

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Mar-13 11:15:03

God you still don't get it do you OP?

Come back when both your kids are teenagers

Then you just might wtf you're talking about when it comes to the 'luck' issue.

cory Mon 18-Mar-13 11:21:40

But how can you know what these people's lives are really like?

I have known three sets of parents who at first sight came across very similar to what you describe in your OP. In the first two instances the children were subsequently diagnosed with ASD's and the third family is probably on the same path.

My SIL used to hint that my parenting was ineffective because I couldn't make dd walk the distances that her son, who was a year younger, happily took in his stride. I felt awful because I had no idea what was wrong with my dd; I just knew she couldn't do it and that I had to carry her.

4 years later dd was diagnosed with a congenital joint condition. She spent the best part of the next few years in a wheelchair.

The bit that is relevant here is the "barring SN". For the first 8 years of dd's life she would not have been covered by that get-out-clause because ^nobody knew she was disabled^; everybody who saw us assumed dh and I were just soft and clueless. Dh and I thought so too.

I think my friend, in the third family, might be in the same place now: people are judging her because nobody knows why her ds is behaving so oddly, her parenting comes across as odd because she is trying to respond to a situation that is simply not normal and because she is worn down by it.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 18-Mar-13 11:22:24

You really still sound unbearably smug Alis.
Have you thought about writing a parenting book or starting a blog?

stopgap Mon 18-Mar-13 11:26:10

My brother was a perfect child. A placid baby who slept through the night at six weeks, never skipped a nap, toddled about when he was older and was never a bother. Fast forward to adolescence, and from the age of 12 he became violent, hung out with the wrong crowd, was forever in trouble with the police etc. Only at 25 did he calm down and get his life back on track.

My little boy is only 20 months. For the first year he was impossible. We had raging colic for seven months and you could not put him down, nor stand still with him for longer than thirty seconds or he'd scream the place down. As a toddler, he is lovely, always smiling, tantrums far less dramatic than those of his peers, sits on my knee for a whole hour at library reading time etc. but I am not so naive to think that raising children is a constant, but rather, a journey with tough times that wax and wane.

cloudpuff Mon 18-Mar-13 11:36:55

I am the oldest of 3, my Mum will say that we were all brought up the same, if you ask my siblings and I about our childhood they are all different, no one is lying, it just circumstances and everyday life changed between each of us being born. One example I can think of, my brother and I have never lived with our Dad, wheras my younger sister was born into wedlock. She was raised by her Parents where as me and my brother were raised by our Mum and Stepdad. All in the same house, the same set of rules but a whole different dynamic.

My Mum beleives we she brought us all up the same, and whilst its true her beliefs and values never changed, the way she taught them to us certainley did. I do think this has a difference on behaviour.

I think what Im trying to say is that once further children come along, the situation has changed, one child has gone from an only to having sibling, wheras the other wont have had the experience of being an only, parents go from having one, to more, big changes on all parts and I think parenting does change, maybe not drastically but even subtle changes can affect the child.

I don't know where I stand on the luck thing though, there are def parents out there who dont give a shit, but there are plenty of well behaved children from those families in the world. I guess its a bit of both, hard work and personality of the child.

Hope that doesnt sound like total bullshit.

GooseyLoosey Mon 18-Mar-13 11:38:07

I don't think YABU, but maybe a little narrow minded?

Some of the behaviour of children is down to their parents. As you say, you have to set boundaries and enforce them. You have done this and are reaping the rewards. You can be justifiably pleased with yourself.

However, some behaviour is also innate. You may not appreciate that some children act the way they do, not because of poor parenting or because of SN but because they just have certain quirks which may look like poor behaviour to people who do not know them. Ds would probably fall into this category, yet everyone who does know him (including teachers) say he is really well behaved, you just have to stand back and look at things from his perspective some times.

Parenting is hard, it's great when you get something right. Don't judge other people though as you have no idea what they are trying to deal with.

TheRealFellatio Mon 18-Mar-13 11:43:19

Ali in twenty years of parenting I've met quite a few horrors. In some cases I absolutely did blame the parents - sometimes their parenting skill were atrocious. I'm talking about inconsistency with discipline, setting a terrible example in the way they dealt with resolving conflict, poor routine, lack of boundaries, etc, although in some cases the only parenting crime was to be a well-intentioned soft touch, easily manipulated by a strong willed child.

But in equally as many cases I could see that the parents were doing everything right, and yet they still got horrors. And one of mine (now a young man) has just come out of a pretty obnoxious phase himself, although as a small child he was easy, and a joy to parent. He used to think I was the strictest mother in the world so God knows what that says about your theory.

But I still know some of those horrors as adult children now, and they are delightful, respectful, successful young people. Children go through phases - good and bad. What you see at 8 or 18 months is not necessarily what you see at 8, 18 or 28 years. As I am sure you will find out in good time.

LaQueen Mon 18-Mar-13 13:53:43

I think an awful lot is down to a lack of consistency, and effort on behalf of the parent...all they can think about is what will make life easier for the next 15 minutes, rather than playing the long game, and instilling firm boundaries and sticking to them, even if that entails a lot of effort, over a period of months.

I went shopping with a relative, and my DDs a few weekends ago. She was shock that my DDs were fairly content to wander around with us, and weren't racing around, complaining, bickering - and that they didn't need constant treats and bribes to make them behave.

Yet, at the end of the day, she basically implied that I'd somehow failed as a parent, because my DDs were too well behaved ('It's not natural') as opposed to her grandchildren who are a real handful, and constantly play-up/fall out, charge about like demons, sulk and complain...

Okay...yep, that makes sense hmm

But, I agree with Fell in that often it comes down to personalityies, to. And, there's not much you can do about that. Our DDs have been raised in exactly the same way, with the exact same boundaries...and yet it is always DD2 who is likely to challenge me, more. And try and be more assertive, and she is very, very stubborn.

If I was a softer character, she would rule me, and I'd have had a right little termagent on my hands.

Lottapianos Mon 18-Mar-13 13:54:10

'I am the oldest of 3, my Mum will say that we were all brought up the same'

Same here and it would be utter BS. Parents always say they parent every child the same - these are often the same parents who talk about how different boys and girls inherently are, or how completely different their two or three children are from each other. Don't they think that these beliefs of theirs might just influence how they parent these different children?

And a parent of a new baby who already has a toddler will obviously be parenting the second child in some different ways to the first one, just because of having had the experience of having had a baby already, and another child to contend with. And that's without going into issues like the effect that baby number 1 had on mum's mental health or her relationships.

Absolutely cannot believe the annihilation that OP has had on this thread. I cant' remember such a flaming for some time. I don't get smugness from any of her posts. I have met many parents like OP's friend who (for example) don't even flinch when their child whacks them across the face and she's right - the continuing of that child's behaviour is down to the parents failure to address it. It has nothing whatsoever to do with 'luck'.

Lottapianos Mon 18-Mar-13 13:56:47

'I think an awful lot is down to a lack of consistency, and effort on behalf of the parent...all they can think about is what will make life easier for the next 15 minutes'

Absolutely LaQueen. A lot of parents just want their children to be as convenient as possible, and blame the child for their behaviour, rather than seeing it as their responsibility to address it.

I hope you were able to ignore your relative's rotten comments about you 'failing' as a parent hmm by the way

WileyRoadRunner Mon 18-Mar-13 13:58:40

I just feel sad for the children that are the subject of those two posts that they are obviously unhappy and that isn't going to change because their parents honestly believe that it is just luck that has led to me having a well behaved child(ren) and them not

ali you are mumsnet classic grin.

MoominmammasHandbag Mon 18-Mar-13 14:20:24

I have a very strict friend with very biddable, well mannered children. Unhappily, now that they are in their late teens they are all very lacking in confidence, self-respect and basic joie de vivre. I think her parenting technique has basically involved stamping on any hint of rebellion.
It's a tricky business this parenting lark and you need to strike a very fine balance with the discipline.

cory Mon 18-Mar-13 14:24:33

I had a friend who very much prided herself on her parenting and in particular on the compliancy of her eldest. And indeed her parenting techniques were excellent, firm , consistent, textbook in all ways.

What we none of us had the heart to tell her was that he wasn't quite so compliant when out of her sight...

MoominmammasHandbag Mon 18-Mar-13 14:33:15

Yes Cory my strict friend's kids are shockingly sneaky. If my kids want to do something I am unhappy about they will argue their case and we will come to a compromise. Her kids would just be shouted down and then go behind her back anyway.

HenD19 Mon 18-Mar-13 14:37:34

Surely it has to be a bit of luck and hard work. If not I give up now as I am working really hard at getting my monkey DS 2.3 to behave and mainly failing. I challenge the OP to come and live with us for a week and try and sort his behaviour out. I have to say it's mums like you that make me and my parenting efforts useless....

HenD19 Mon 18-Mar-13 14:38:13

Feel useless

TheRealFellatio Mon 18-Mar-13 16:30:42

I have a friend like that too Moomin. He DH is a surgeon and they have four children. Two are very high achievers academically, one not so much, and the other is pretty bright but not top drawer. Although I know when the time comes he'll have a full complement of A* GCSE's because she will see to it that he does, even if he doesn't leave the house for a year, except to go to school.

They are lovely children, but there's just something unsettling....I know exactly what you mean. While I do get fed up with mine arguing back, being all teenagery etc, I am glad they have a bit of backbone, at least. It's not normal to be quite that biddable, is it? confusedgrin

Still, I suppose I'll be hmm ing on the other side of my face when three of them are doctors and the sweet but slightly dim one is married to one.

LaQueen Mon 18-Mar-13 17:27:39

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for some spirited debate, and I'm quite happy to hear our DD's objections/reasoning...the very last thing I'd want are DDs who are meek and mild, and nervous of their own shadows.

But, I think it is possible to raise children with plenty of joie de vivre/whatever - but who are also respectful, and well behaved.

And, I would argue that with pre-teen children, at least, their joie de vivre/sunny dispositions can stem from the fact they feel totally secure and safe, knowing there are firm but fair boundaries in place, and that a firm but fair parent stands between them and the rest of the (sometimes scarey) world.

Show me a young child, that is constantly battling/kicking off/running rings around their parent - and chances are that is a secretly unhappy child, who feels very vulnerable, and deep down is scared that they can control/manipulate their parent to such a large extent.

TheRealFellatio Mon 18-Mar-13 18:26:15

Yes. ^ That.

CoffeeChocolateWine Mon 18-Mar-13 20:48:08

I think that as you've only got one well-behaved child and one who isn't old enough to know how to misbehave (as do I), these comments may be a little premature. You may regret making these comments when your very well-behaved 9mo hits the 2s!

Also, you've made some pretty big judgements about the child and the parent based on a snippet of something you saw in a car. You've pretty much assumed that these kids get no discipline whatsoever. Probably not the case.You don't know what the hell was going on...perhaps the mum had a bug in her hair and the daughter was trying to swipe it out? Clutching at straws but it's possible. Or perhaps as she said, her daughter was overtired. That can do horrible things to a child!

Brings to mind an incident last week...I was in Sainbury's and my DS (4) for the first time in his life (because I have a very well-behaved child too, don't you know) had a full-on meltdown. Proper on the floor screaming and thrashing around, lashing out at me and although I'm pretty good at not giving a shit what anyone else thinks, I could feel everyone around me staring and making judgements about my gorgeous little boy (no doubt labelling him an out of control spoilt brat) and probably assuming that I was some incompetent mum who didn't know how to control my awful child. Both wrong. What they didn't know (and neither did I at the time although I suspected something was wrong as it was so out of character) was that he was going down with a horrible virus that knocked him for six for the best part of a week.

Maybe seem like I'm veering off the subject, but my point is, don't judge somebody's child and parenting skills based on 2mins of something you see. It's not fair. There are any number of explanations for the episodes you saw this morning. Or perhaps the mum was just having a bad day. Some of us inferior mums do.

EffiBriest Tue 19-Mar-13 15:00:05

Oh, OP, I could have written your post when my DC were small. I must have come across as insufferably smug. My DC were incredibly well behaved, and put everyone else's to shame. I put it all down to my fabulous (strict) parenting.

Then they started school, and it was all downhill. They discovered all kinds of behaviour that they had never been in close contact with before (I was at home with them; they didn't go to nursery/pre-school, so had only me as their shining example to follow).

At school, they discovered stroppy, argumentative, rude, defiant, foul, revolting behaviour (and it was a lovely prep school, so don't think you can avoid it that way). I think it was rather on a par with 18 year olds going to university and suddenly discovering freedom. They tried it out at home and got a dusty response, but my older one is still regularly trying it now (they are 9 and 11). My 9-year-old is, as it happens, still pretty much perfect. But if I am going to put this down entirely to brilliant parenting, I'd equally have to put the 11-year-old's foul behaviour down to rubbish parenting. This makes me think that there may be personality involved too.

I suggest you return to this thread when your child (or maybe children by then) is/are older, and see what you say then!

EffiBriest Tue 19-Mar-13 15:01:31

Sorry - I see you have two. My mistake.

cory Tue 19-Mar-13 17:41:13

"Show me a young child, that is constantly battling/kicking off/running rings around their parent - and chances are that is a secretly unhappy child, who feels very vulnerable, and deep down is scared that they can control/manipulate their parent to such a large extent."

It could equally be a young child who is vulnerable and scared for some other reason. Casting my mind back over children of my acquaintance, the children who were constantly kicking off included:

the child who knew that his mother was terminally ill

the child who had been traumatised by adoption

the child who was in constant pain with an undiagnosed medical condition but did not know that this was not normal because he had never thought to ask so nobody else realised anything was wrong

the child who was worried that a medical condition would leave her permanently unable to walk

the child whose physical condition had been misdiagnosed as psychosomatic

the child whose childhood was dominated by a sibling with MH problems

the child who was later diagnosed with Aspergers

the child who had been moved between foster parents

the child who had missed out on important stages of social development due to glue ears causing undiagnosed deafness

All the above had very good and firm parents/carers.

Show me a child who is constantly kicking off and I will know that there could be all sorts of reasons for the behaviour.

Ineffective parenting could be one of them but it could equally well not be.

Most of the children above came out all right in the end but there were many difficult years for the carers to get through first- and a lot of judginess from people who saw snapshots and jumped to conclusions.

I do remember a particularly hairy experience of the whole family being pursued down an Italian street by a horde of hags women yelling in Italian "beat him, beat him" at my father who was trying to control db during a meltdown. Obviously a bunch of women who made a snap judgment- but the time was hardly suited to a longer explanation.

LaQueen Tue 19-Mar-13 19:55:34

Yes, like I said cory ...'chances are...' I didn't say it was the only, imperical reason.

As you say, there could also be other reasons.

Bobyan Tue 19-Mar-13 21:26:19

DS = Devil in Baby Gap
DD = Angel in everything

DS is the elder and frankly OP you are full of it.

nooka Wed 20-Mar-13 02:21:36

I've always been rather pleased when people have commented on my children behaving well (not quite sure how a 9 month old could be described as behaving well but never mind). I have felt that it was a credit to them rather than to me really. dd has always been a people pleaser, but no one would have said that ds was well behaved when he was small. All very well having rules etc, but if you have a child that can't process consequences in the moment of frustration then you can be as strict as you like and it will make very little difference.

I used to be very judgy of some of the parents at my children's school and thought that the children's problems were surely caused by poor parenting (the school had a special unit for children with behavioural problems). But then I learned more about learning difficulties and recognised that many of the parents were struggling with many of the same issues themselves.

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