AIBU to think that 'but it's mother's day' is a crap excuse.

(483 Posts)
manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 18:51:26

We had the dress rehearsal of our very large scale school play all day today .

The children were not forced to be in it. They auditioned. They have known since mid October that this rehearsal was unmissable in almost all circumstances and that if they couldn't commit to it then they couldn't be in the show.

on Friday night as he left for home one boy (with a large-ish part) told us he can't come as it's mother's day. I rang home explaining the importance of the rehearsal and pointing out how long it has been scheduled for but the response was no, he can't be away from his family on mother's day.

And now they are cross because we've kicked the kid out. They were warned.

The other 70 odd children were all there.

So, AIBU?

livinginwonderland Sun 10-Mar-13 18:53:07

yanbu. i don't get why mothers day HAS to be so important. if you really want to celebrate it, you can do it on the saturday (i did with my mum, as i had a 10 hour shift at work today) or even the week before.

MamaMumra Sun 10-Mar-13 18:53:30

Yes I think you were BU.

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 18:54:04

I think given so many people go visiting relatives or for family days out in mothers day then it probably wasn't the most ideal time for a dress rehearsal really

pooka Sun 10-Mar-13 18:54:32

YANBU

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 10-Mar-13 18:54:53

Umm... it's a shame that an all day rehersal couldn't have been scheduled to avoid it, but if they knew the policy then they've chosen their priorities so on that basis, no YANBU.

I do feel sorry for the boy though, I presume he's young enough to have to bend to the pressure from his parents.

SueDoku Sun 10-Mar-13 18:56:15

YADNBU. The warnings were numerous and clear - if they were ignored, that is not your problem --- getting the understudy ready for the opening night is your problem...shock

RobotLover68 Sun 10-Mar-13 18:56:22

YABU holding it on Mother's Day

ohforfoxsake Sun 10-Mar-13 18:58:38

YABU.

What reasons did they give when you asked why it was so important to them?

And then you kicked him out?

Unreasonable AND mean.

Goldmandra Sun 10-Mar-13 18:58:59

YANBU

I wonder how that boy feels about his mum now sad

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:00:44

It was the only time for the dress rehearsal. We perform Weds-Sat this week. We cannot just have a whole day off timetable. The dress rehearsal has been held on the Sunday before the show for the past 12 years. I'm sure it must have hit mother's day before. Mother's day is just a day surely?!

And yes, sparklyknickers I do feel very sorry for the boy concerned but we feel that we can't do anything else otherwise others will start seeing rehearsals as optional in future and we won't have the show ready in time. He is 13 so i suppose it's borderline as to whether he had the choice or not.

pictish Sun 10-Mar-13 19:00:53

Yabu to be so stern about it really.
One missing child out of 70 on Mother's Day is pretty good going!

Don't get me wrong...I think MD is mostly flim flam and poppycock, but I still reckon you did well to get so many!

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 19:02:33

How old is the child in question?

MerylStrop Sun 10-Mar-13 19:02:40

YABU
Poor kid
You have clearly lost all sense of perspective

silverfrog Sun 10-Mar-13 19:03:10

Why couldn't you have dress rehearsal all day Saturday this year?

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:03:27

foxsake the reason was that it was mother's day so they were going out for lunch and to see grandparents. Something I assume they could do any weekend.

And why do you think it was mean to kick him out when they were told 5 months ago that if they couldn't attend that rehearsal then they couldn't be in the show. If someone had then ended up ill or with a family emergency etc then we would obviously have had a good reason to make an exception. But mother's day?! Really? I'm really surprised by anyone thinking mother's day is so special.

MollyMurphy Sun 10-Mar-13 19:03:53

Unfortunate for the child who had no say in the matter....so yes, I think kicking him out was an over-reaction......not that I don't see your point of view mind, but YAB a bit U.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:04:38

silverfrog we couldn't have the rehearsal on the Saturday because we spent 19 hours of Saturday building the set so that it was ready for teh children for this morning. I'm talking thousands of pounds worth of professional set, sound and lighting equipment, we definitely needed the full day.

Backinthebox Sun 10-Mar-13 19:05:31

YABU to hold an all day rehearsal on Mother's Day and to ask a child to choose between a school play and his mother. You don't say how old this child is but it is probable that back in October he didn't put 2 and 2 together and realise that he would be forced to miss what is in most households a family day.

onedev Sun 10-Mar-13 19:05:46

I think YABU also. Poor boy.

ENormaSnob Sun 10-Mar-13 19:06:15

I really don't celebrate mothers day at all but I think yabu.

At 13 I doubt he would've had a choice sad

ToTeachOrNotToTeach Sun 10-Mar-13 19:06:53

Poor boy. Very mean. Making him choose between family and school.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:07:14

Poor kid he gets punished for something that is beyond his control. Nice op nice.
YABVU

montage Sun 10-Mar-13 19:07:27

I don't think most 13 year olds would be able to stand up to a parent that is so set on his celebrating her day that she would let him lose his part and all the work he has put in so far.

Poor boy.

Mrsrobertduvall Sun 10-Mar-13 19:07:41

YANBU.
A 13yr old should be able to convey that info to parents about being there, and checking it's ok.
You gave 5 months notice...presumaly you told the children about the importance of attending.

Dd 16 has just done school musical, we had to sign a form at the beginning of October re attendance at rehearsals...everyone had to attend, or they would lose their part.

Startail Sun 10-Mar-13 19:07:52

Senior school YANBU
Primary DCs might be soppy about Mother's Day and be going out for lunch. Teens can treat their mums' to Indian takeaway and wine in the evening.

I wouldn't kick him off the show. I think even at 19 school children are still that. They live at home and rely on parents for money and transport. Sometimes it's just not fair to play home against school.

teatrolley Sun 10-Mar-13 19:08:00

At 13 he doesn't have a choice.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:09:27

Oh an op how do you know that for this family mothers day is not particularly poignant? There may have been a bereavement or illness that means being together as a family is particularly significant. YABVU

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 10-Mar-13 19:09:46

I wonder if they would have pulled him out if it was his birthday? It's kind of the same situation isn't it and I think I would still think YANBU if the rules and dates had been laid down for a while.

These things happen on special dates sometimes and you just have to work with it.

Still feel sorry for the lad though, I don't think at 13 I would have been confident enough to walk out of the house and defy my parents like that to attend a rehersal. Chances are if they didn't see the importance of it for today they wouldn't for the actual performances.

kinkyfuckery Sun 10-Mar-13 19:10:11

What kind of school production costs thousands, takes 5 months to prepare for and means it's ok to ask a child to choose between it and his mother?

MollyMurphy Sun 10-Mar-13 19:10:15

I don't know why you'd think a 13 year old has a choice if his parents said no....

You don't know what their family situation is at all - perhaps the GPS travelled for the get together for example

The more I think about it the more I think YABU.....presumably the child came to all the other rehearsals..?

ivykaty44 Sun 10-Mar-13 19:10:19

69 children committed to the school play and came to rehearsal - why should they be told you can't spend the day with your mum but this boy can and still be in the play

YANBU

I would have sent my dd for an all day rehearsal any way without a quibble

You kicked a kid out of the play due to his parents actions and you think YNBU?

YABVU. You're penalising the child for something he had no control over. Maybe he doesn't see his grandparents often and they came down to visit? You've probably upset him a lot.

Taffeta Sun 10-Mar-13 19:10:48

YABU for posting this in AIBU on Mumsnet on Mothers Day.

And unthinking to have the rehearsal scheduled for Mothers Day. Whoever was responsible for the scheduling of the play and the dress rehearsal should have checked their calendar. Last year.

What is more important here?

You dont punish the child because of the actions of the parents shock of course yabu.

We do a school play very well in 3 months- 180 kids, what kind of play is this? West End?

yy Taffeta, how silly to schedule a whole days rehearsal on Mothers Day.

BigRedBox Sun 10-Mar-13 19:11:44

Yanbu, some people think the rules don't apply to them. You're dead right - how unfair it would be on the 70 that did make the effort if you'd said to this one it was fine to miss it.

I enjoy Mothers Day but FFS - it's just an arbitrary day! Just celebrate the day before etc. I also think our children need to see that sometimes there are tricky decisions to be made and you have to accept hthe consequences. They decided Mothers Day was more important than his role in the play, that's their prerogative. But it is the parents who have made him lose his role not you.

squeakytoy Sun 10-Mar-13 19:11:47

"I'm really surprised by anyone thinking mother's day is so special."

You havent been posting on here long then! grin

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:12:36

My friend lost her mum this year, today has been so hard for them as a family. They have shut the door on the world and hidden. Maybe this family has similar circumstances, but hey op the show must go on eh.

gatheringlilac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:12:53

I'm wondering whether your name is Linda and you keep llamas.

Frankly neither mother's day nor school plays are important in the grand scheme of things: to dust we go and one day the sun will die and no-one/nothing will care that there was a clever animal and his/her friends living on a small planet in this universe.

I think you sound a little OTT about your school play, tbh. How much does that matter? Really?

We didn;t do mother's day here, at all. I'm a leetle bitter, to be frank. I'm a leetle bit jealous of the child's mother.

But really, none of it really matters.

NonnoMum Sun 10-Mar-13 19:13:23

Mu DH works at least 5 days a week. I work weekends (but not Sunday). Sunday is the only day we get to be a family. If My DC had committed to being in a (non-essential) play and had been to EVERY rehearsal since the beginning and fully committed to the play and then missed ONE rehearsal to be with me for a me for a meal for Mothers' Day, then I would be absolutely livid that he had been kicked out.

NonnoMum Sun 10-Mar-13 19:14:12

So, OP you are being VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVUR.
But, I understand that you are trying to get a play together. Then you have to build in contingencies for this sort of thing.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:14:32

Oh and my dh produces school productions.....he's popped out to get the op a new grip.

ivykaty44 Sun 10-Mar-13 19:14:32

mothers day is not so special to 69 secondary school children- even if it is to 69 mumsneters.

There is always a big bun fight about mothers day being so special it rates higher than anyones wedding day or christmas on here grin

ENormaSnob Sun 10-Mar-13 19:14:51

I don't think mothers day is special at all but appreciate that to others it's a big deal.

Why couldn't rehearsal have been scheduled for a different day?

I feel really sorry for the poor lad.

BalloonSlayer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:15:21

Hmm well I hope for your sake it really IS a case of the family being selfish, and not that the Grandmother is seriously ill, and . . .

LadyStark Sun 10-Mar-13 19:15:22

YABU. Very.

Poor kid.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:15:36

Yep, I agree it's a shame for him. But I still think we would have no chance of managing a cast of 70+ if we didn't make strict rules and stick to them. It wasn't only up to the children to make the commitment in October, all the parents had to sign the consent forms (there have been other out of hours commitments) and agree to the rules.

They changed the goalposts, not us.

Interesting how many YABUs there have been though. I suppose I'm going to have to be a bit classically 'well I still don't think I am' about it (!), I just wanted to see how many families might have done the same thing! A lot it seems! I suppose we're lucky there weren't any other complaints.

TidyDancer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:15:48

I'm split on this.

I think YANBU to request attendance and in light of the fact that they signed up knowing they had to be there, YAprobablyNBU to be hardline now.

However....you are sounding quite nasty to dismiss Mother's Day when it is obviously important to this family. At 13, that boy would not have had a choice about this. I thin I would equate this with illness or emergency preventing attendance, specifically because this was not the child's fault.

ivykaty44 Sun 10-Mar-13 19:15:59

philspencer - tell him to get several grips for all the mothers that faint if they don't get the right present etc from their dh on mothers day or goodness forbid get taken to the wrong style of cafe etc - it really is ott

freddiefrog Sun 10-Mar-13 19:16:04

Sorry, but I think YABU too.

We're taking part in Rock Challenge. We would never expect a child to chose between spending mothers day with their mother and a dress rehearsal, if they can't make it, they can't make it, some of them come for part of the day and we work round them

Just because you don't see any importance in Mother's day, it doesn't mean other people don't want to spend the day together.

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts Sun 10-Mar-13 19:16:55

We're talking about a child missing a rehearsal for a school play, not a professional adult actor and a West End production fgs. Fair enough to stress that everyone should attend, but YABVVVU to kick him out for missing today because of family engagements on Mother's Day. At 13 years old the decision would have been his parents', not his. It's grossly unfair to punish him.

Weddings- husband and I
Christmas- the family
Mothers day- ME ME ME ME

grin

DonderandBlitzen Sun 10-Mar-13 19:17:18

Well I think it was an oversight on your part to schedule the play so that the dress rehearsal would fall on mothers' day.

WilsonFrickett Sun 10-Mar-13 19:17:40

YANBU. Rehearsal schedules are there for a reason and if it was clear at the beginning that attendance was compulsory, then that's that. 69 other children managed it. I think pp a over-reacting because its mothers day tbh. What if he'd missed the rehearsal for a football match, or a holiday, or a family BBQ? Would that have been ok too?

TidyDancer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:17:43

I would add, I think you should reconsider on the basis of one last chance and that's it. It's really very unfair to punish the child for the parents decision.

I take it the poor kids part has been taken over by someone else who was too afraid to say no

gwenniebee Sun 10-Mar-13 19:18:33

YABU to hold it today and YABU to kick a 13 yo out when presumably he had no choice. I bet you've spoilt the day for both the child and the mother.

I used to work in a school where the twice termly Sunday Chapel often fell on Mothering Sunday and while as a staff we weren't happy when certain children didn't show up, we would never have taken it out on them as it isn't their decision at that age.

YA also BU to think that people don't think Mothering Sunday is that important. For me today, I have really enjoyed a beautiful church service where all the ladies where given bunches of flowers, and been highly amused and very touched by my DH baking a cake on behalf of my baby dd. It was a lovely way of showing that he (and she) appreciate me.

Yes, the show must go on. With 6 months notice and 70 kids who made it there, they all knew the rules.

It's that families responsibility for not checking the dates in advance - if the Sunday before the show is an all day rehearsal it's hardly a bloody surprise.

Taffeta Sun 10-Mar-13 19:19:01

You need to check your calendar for next year, that's FoSho.

EmmelineGoulden Sun 10-Mar-13 19:19:03

I'm amazed you only lost one kid. As a school I think you should have had more consideration for pupils and their families than to plan something that would require rehersal on Mother's day. I don't celebrate, but most people do.

As a school I think it's particularly arrogant to have scheduled it that way. Most parents will give up many things for their children - but you shouldn't be making it more awkward and costly than it needs to be, family life is important too. They may have had five months knowing about the rehearsal, but you set the schedule - why couldn't you have done it so the set got made earlier and the rehearsal got done on Saturday? Or the whole thing a week later?

Having timetabled it though YWNBU to kick him out for not making a mandatory rehearsal - otherwise it's not mandatory is it?

ivykaty44 Sun 10-Mar-13 19:20:11

TBF there are only 52 Sundays in the year so the Op didn't have many to choice from - given that the dress rehersal needs to be just before the play that narrows it down to even less.

The parents read , signed and agreed to the boy going to the rehersal on that day - they knew for 5 months, why should they then back track on the commitment they gave and what message does it send to the pupil if his parents are allowed to sign an agreement and then back out of it and it is ok with the teachers, surely that would show that the agreement is worth diddly squat

Catchingmockingbirds Sun 10-Mar-13 19:20:26

You may not think Mother's Day is important but obviously others do, including this boys family. You've no idea what's been going on within this family either. Yabu, you've already said you'd make exceptions under certain circumstances.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:20:29

So no compassion for a family who may have very difficult personal circumstances e.g. bereavement , terminal illness? Ok, right....

xxDebstarxx Sun 10-Mar-13 19:20:48

YANBU...if it had been any other rehearsal then I would say you were being unreasonable but the dress rehearsal is the most important one of the lot and you had specified this at the start of the process.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:21:19

I've explained upthread why the rehearsal had to be today.

We haven't been preparing since Oct. We started auditioning in Oct and the consent forms were all signed before the children auditioned. We began rehearsing just before Christmas.

Actually he hasn't attended all the other rehearsals, he missed 2 last week and another couple earlier in the term. But that isn't relevant, those rehearsals aren't the reason he can't be in the play.

youmaycallmeSSP Sun 10-Mar-13 19:21:48

Sorry, I think that's awful. Regardless of your own low opinion of today's celebration, a lot of families consider it important enough to want to spend it together as a family. Deliberately scheduling an all-day rehearsal for today was poorly thought out and inconsiderate and yes, it does sound like the organisers have lost all sense of perspective. The play could have been last week, or next week and it wouldn't matter. Mothering Sunday, much like Christmas and Easter, isn't generally shifted around to accommodate school plays.

So YABU for making such a poor scheduling choice in the first place.

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 10-Mar-13 19:22:28

Actually reading the replies I think this boys parents AU.

They presumably know it's important to the boy, they're aware of the ground rules, yet they've made a decision that's lost him his role. OP is in a position of enforcing rules to coordinate 70 children, how often can you make exceptions without the whole thing going to pot.

There really aren't many circumstances that I could see them being unable to bend the rules for one day. They can bitch and moan if they want to, that's fine, but I personally think that it's cruel to knowingingly lose him his part.

Unless the boy himself has made that choice...

Another YABU. Just because you don't think Mothering Sunday is important... You do understand that different people have different feelings and opinions to yours, don't you? I'm an atheist but understand that religious holidays are important.

Poor kid, poor mother, poor 69 other kids and mothers who might have liked to spend the day together.

missmapp Sun 10-Mar-13 19:22:34

YANBU if the consequences of missing a rehearsal was made clear at the beginning .

Ds1 has been at a football tournament all day, didnt spoil my mothers day.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:22:44

Op I hope you never need the compassion and flexibility of another human being.

DonderandBlitzen Sun 10-Mar-13 19:22:50

I wonder if we will see an article in the Daily Mail with the boy and his mum doing sad faces about him losing his part because he was celebrating mothers' day.

CloudsAndTrees Sun 10-Mar-13 19:23:35

While I would have let my child go to the rehearsal today, I think you were very harsh to kick him out of the show less than a week before it goes on stage if he's been committed to rehearsals since October.

Has he missed other rehearsals? If so, maybe you have good reason to have told him he can't be in the show, but if not, that's just plain mean. He's a child, and I guess you know little of his family circumstances that might make this a day that matters to that family more than most.

BellaVita Sun 10-Mar-13 19:24:25

Agree with Taffeta.

exexpat Sun 10-Mar-13 19:24:34

I'll just chip in a little YANBU since there are so many going the other way.

I don't know when mother's day started being such a huge deal in the UK, but it has bypassed my family. Wonky nursery-made cards are lovely, as would be a cup of tea, but why on earth does it have to be a whole day?

They had five months' notice and you were clear about the consequences from the start.

tethersend Sun 10-Mar-13 19:26:35

Um, you don't think you're taking this play a little too seriously do you?

YABUptight

Gooseysgirl Sun 10-Mar-13 19:26:42

YANBU

ivykaty44 Sun 10-Mar-13 19:27:12

The boys parents shouldn't have signed the forms in the first place if they knew he could or they wouldn't have let him be able to come today. Then there wouldn't be this problem know for their son, they have effectively got him kicked of the performance by their own doing - they knew the rules and ignored them

EmmelineGoulden Sun 10-Mar-13 19:28:07

You haven't explained upthread why the rehersal had to be today - you've explained why it couldn't be on Saturday, but not why, out of the whole year, you had to schedule the play and preperation for it so that the dress rehersal was on this specific day.

Shoppinglist Sun 10-Mar-13 19:28:07

I think Yabu.

Do you have children OP?

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 10-Mar-13 19:28:21

Well I think between you and the boys parents you've managed to piss all over his chips.

Nice job

<applauds>

DontmindifIdo Sun 10-Mar-13 19:30:11

YABU - i bet you anything the boy didn't get a choice in visiting grandparents or not, it was the parents' choice - so saying this child had the dates and was able to check in October when it was and make sure his family didn't have other plans back then is asking a lot (really, how many adults could tell you that far in advance when mothers day is let alone children? without googling, do you know which date father's day is this year? Without googling, when does Mother's day fall next year?).

Why couldn't you do this on the Saturday instead? You have been actually really lucky that the rest also turned up, you can throw out one child just before the performance, but if it'd had been 10 or more, would you have been able to still do it without a negative effect on your play?

Next year, if it falls on mothers day or any other important day, make them take home a form that says "please note, in order to take part, your child will have to be in school all day on mother's day." before they audition, refusing to get them to take part unless they have it signed off. I bet your office will get a shed load of complaints and you'll be made to move it though...

ivykaty44 Sun 10-Mar-13 19:31:04

could you imagine if I came on here and said 69 children went to rehearsal today but one boy didn't because it was mothering sunday - well it was mothering sunday for 69 other mothers but we let our children go as otherwise the rules state they can't be in the play.

But Miss has said it is ok for this boy to still be in the play even though he didn't go in today, as it was mothering sunday and his mother said no to him going even though she signed to say he would liek the rest of us

why is he given preferential treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules but everyone else has to?

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 10-Mar-13 19:33:12

EmmelineGoulden I presumed the lights would need a full day to be rigged up (possibly hired so left till as late as possible to get done) meaning a Saturday so the rest of the school wasn't disrupted, leaving Sunday as the only possible full day left for dress rehersals with the lighting.

Even though it's a school production I can't see them being very happy about disrupting a full day of lessons for the children in the show.

We had football today as usual. If you have a commitment you have a commitment. They could have special dinner in the evening, couldn't they?
Poor kid tho.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:33:31

Emmeline. The play has to be in the Spring Term. It has to include a Saturday performance so it can't be the last week of term as people go on holiday. The term is only 9 weeks long. So it has to be the second to last week. Every year.

Yes, I have children.

ponyandpotatopie Sun 10-Mar-13 19:33:36

Poor child
He works really hard for 5 months and gets kicked out at the last minute.
That's awful.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:35:06

dontmindifIdo - read my other posts, the parents had indeed signed to that effect.

So what if a child couldnt make it because of illness? would they have been kicked out?

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 10-Mar-13 19:36:15

Pony he has you. Thems the rules in the land of no Saturdays

Taffeta Sun 10-Mar-13 19:36:34

Why can't it be the third to last week? Why is there zero flexibility?

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 10-Mar-13 19:36:40

Has to

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 10-Mar-13 19:39:09

Ok OP so given all your incredibly autocratic rules and your insistence that this child should be kicked off for being unable to toe your line follow them, can I just ask why the hell you've posted in AIBU as you're so certain you're not?

ponyandpotatopie Sun 10-Mar-13 19:39:28

What's his part? I can't imagine that missing this practice will have that great an impact if you've been able to replace him so easily.

Shoppinglist Sun 10-Mar-13 19:40:23

I think you have been mean spirited and I guess he won't ever bother putting so much commitment and effort into anything else again.

He's 13 his parents made him go to a meal and you punished him.

I hope you feel a bit shit about it I'm sure he does.

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 19:40:28

I think when you realised the clash of dates it would have made sense to move it. Just because others made it didn't mean it wasn't a massive incovenice and its not fair to but the children in that position.

Shesparkles Sun 10-Mar-13 19:40:29

Just for clarification, when you sent out the forms for parents to sign, did you point out that the dress rehearsal was actually on Mothers Day?

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:41:16

So why the fuck post OP? You are so utterly self righteous! Did you just want us all to pat you on the back?!

OP, as you made it clear right at the start, and both the boy and his parents knew what the rules were, then YANBU. Why couldn't the parents have contacted you if there was a particular reason why MD was so important?

FWIW I missed out on a meal out tonight as one DD was ill, and we felt DH should go as it was also with MIL. I can't say that I'm totally devastated. I've spent previous MDs at rugby tournaments and once officiating at a trampoline competition than none of my DC were actually at, but felt obliged to do as I'd made a commitment in advance to do it. I'd rather my DC learned about commitments and obligations that way than by losing a role in a play. Which is very harsh of the boys parents, as they are the ones who have caused this.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:41:46

Dreams - no. I have already said that.

Taffeta - a) because there are other events that always happen in the third to last week (some internal exams and a couple of large sports tournaments for eg) and b) because there is no way we would be ready in time. Taking one week out of what is only an 8 week block (bar a few initial sessions before Christmas) is actually quite a big deal.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:42:23

Oh and good luck keeping parents and pupils on side in the future.

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 10-Mar-13 19:43:19

Mother's Day moves every year. It mightn't have occurred to anyone in October that it's so early this year. But at that point the date was realised as MD it would have been reasonable, as with any large-scale project to do a sanity check on the crucial date.

mrsmalcolmreynolds Sun 10-Mar-13 19:44:04

OP, YADNBU and I am shocked at how many have said differently. I think a lot of those reponses are classic projection onto the OP of stuff that has no foundation in what we have been told. To wit:

- not right to punish a child for something over which he has no control. But the whole family had to sign up and commit to attending rehearsals at the very beginning. The parents knew about this a long time in advance and have chosen to make MD arrangements which would clash and make their child stick to them, and now have the gall to complain? They are BVU.

- What if there are circumstances you don't know about that make this a particularly poignant day for this family? They were at perfect liberty to explain these to the OP and there is no suggestion that anything of the kind took place. And to the follow-up "why should they have to explain personal stuff" moan, my response would be - this was a serious commitment by the whole family, and IMO it is totally reasonable to expect a proper explanation, in advance, when it was broken.

- One kid can't make that much difference. The OP clearly stated that this was a major part, so it is entirely likely that not having that individual would put the utility of the whole dress rehearsal at risk.

- "I hope you never need compassion from anyone else...". Oh please, are you twelve? There's no suggestion that the OP would not have made allowances for a genuine emergency, bereavement etc. MD is not the same thing, and if it was for this particular child, the family should have checked their calendar at the outset and/or raised the issue as soon as they were aware of it, and managed the kid's expectations accordingly.

Bogeyface Sun 10-Mar-13 19:44:19

the reason was that it was mother's day so they were going out for lunch and to see grandparents. Something I assume they could do any weekend.

Then you assume wrong. Because they didnt.

I have put some money in the whipround for your new grip. Its a school play ffs not Hamlet at the RSC. The kid had no choice so should not be punished for something that is out of his control.

YABVVVU and very mean to boot.

Essexmamma Sun 10-Mar-13 19:44:42

How ridiculous holding it on Sunday at all but especially on Mother's Day. Yabvu.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:46:16

Enjoy and idshag - I've already said why upthread
shopping - there wasn't a lot of commitment and effort but yes I feel bad about it and we did have a meeting to check whether we really thought we should do it.
shesparkles - no, we didn't.

TheSecondComing Sun 10-Mar-13 19:46:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:46:34

I will ask again how do you not know the past history of this family is difficult? A stillbirth , a terminal illness , any of a myriad reasins why today may have been very difficult.

ProPerformer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:47:02

YABABU. You're not BU to set out rules and expect them to be obeyed but I do loads of theatre and there have often times been members if the cast (fully grown adults) unable to make tec/dress rehearsals and it certainly hasn't meant they can't be in the show! shock We had our orchestra run today and some couldn't make it.
If the poor kid has been to all/most other rehearsals then cut him some slack and let him be in the show, don't punish him for his parents doing!!

StuntGirl Sun 10-Mar-13 19:47:05

How utterly ridiculous and over the top you are OP. YABVU about everything.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:48:33

Dh had to miss his school tech run and he is the producer. For personal reasons. Should he have been thrown out?

If this is true Ive never known a school or teacher to be so unsupportive of a child, its not usually in their `make up`.

Its not the west end darhhling.

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 19:50:23

I think to have anything to do with school at a weekend compulsory is unfair and shows a great lack of understanding that children actually have a life outside of school.

Many children have commitments to other things at weekends so why does the school play have to come first?

Shesparkles Sun 10-Mar-13 19:50:40

shesparkles - no, we didn't.

Thought not.

ItsallisnowaFeegle Sun 10-Mar-13 19:51:06

YABU.

'Mother's Day is just a day surely'.

Obviously NOT to quite a lot of people. How do you know the significance it holds for others?

Poor wee guy hmm

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 10-Mar-13 19:51:21

Some anecdotal stuff.

First one.
I organise several school trips per year, for the international trips the forms always say that the bus will be leaving at X time, you must be there 30 minutes early for the loading of the bus, checking of passports etc.

In the 5 years that I have organised the trip I have left 3 children behind as they have not arrived on time.
In each case the parent has rung me up and asked "what the fuck are you doing" (paraphrased, normally much worse).

the reply is simple "The ferry, international bus, plane will not wait for us if we are late and you know the time that you had to be here for, if you can get to X place your DC can still go". Most don't bother and complain to the school.

Second one
A friend got in to RADA he was told that he was not to do any productions other than RADA productions, he did other productions and got thrown out.

Last one.
A close friend was selected for a national football team and was told not to play for other teams, he played on a saturday for a local youth club team, broke his leg and destroyed his dream of being a national footballer.

rules are rules and as long as they are set down in advance the OP is not being unreasonable.

DontmindifIdo Sun 10-Mar-13 19:52:00

OP - there's something else I really hate about this attitude, and it's something I've seen in a lot of schools, in order to do well in something that's school based, a child needs to have parents who are involved, care and think that activity is important.

By putting rehearsals on Mothering Sunday, you put a barrier in the way of DCs who might really want to take part but who's families really don't care one way or another. (You only had one drop out, but that's one DC who wanted to do the play enough to take part, you don't know how many who's parents saw the form, actually did check the dates and said "no" to them auditioning in the first place)

There's a reason you often end up having to deal with hard work, pushy parents - the sort of parents who aren't all that fussed if their DC gets the lead or not are also the sort of people who really don't think a school play is important enough to cancel family plans for so some will have already not let their DCs take part.

But the pushy parents will find ways to fulfill their DCs extra curricular interests outside of school. Plays, sports teams, choirs etc need to be run in schools not for the DCs of parents who think it's important, but because there are so many DCs who's parents really don't think they matter enough to put the effort in to give their DCs access to these outside of school.

There was thread after thread at the Olympics about why so many of team GB went to private schools, or had 'sport mad parents' - there are a lot of things, regardless of your natural talent, that if your parents don't give a shit about it, you will never get the opportunity to do it. Personally, I think extra curricular activities at schools should be focussed not on those who'll get the chance to do that anyway, but those who won't.

Shoppinglist Sun 10-Mar-13 19:52:08

I work in a college so much older kids and I would NEVER punish a student for something their parents made them do. Yes the parents were probably being unreasonable but I think the punishment was over the top and cruel.

Pozzled Sun 10-Mar-13 19:52:37

I agree with Mrs malcolmreynolds

OP, YANBU. As you have said, you have reasons w

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 19:53:31

excellent post dont mind

Thingiebob Sun 10-Mar-13 19:54:03

I feel really sorry for the boy! Don't kick him out because of his mother.

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 19:54:44

Well said don'tmind

bonzoed Sun 10-Mar-13 19:55:34

Excellent post DontMind.

I think the problem with this is nothing to do with Mothers Day or it being out of school as:

1. The children know exactly what the commitments and responsibilities are, they sign up to it in consultation with their parents - it's not compulsory

2. Being allowed to 'not attend' the dress rehearsal causes a nightmare for the other kids in the play acting with them - each kid missing a performance means no coherence

3. If one kid was allowed to miss a dress rehearsal you can guarantee that parents would then say 'well such and such missed so my kid has an Ugg boot fitting' - we all know parents like this hmm though of course there's none on Mumsnet wink

4. It's a commitment that affects others and we're all trying to teach our kids to take responsibility - if we didn't want our kid in it, we wouldn't sign up

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 19:57:53

idshag - I don't know for certain. But a) I do know this family and their history of commitment and it isn't good and b) I would expect a family with a genuine problem to let us know so that we could accomodate them. I am as sure as it is possible to be that their reason was exactly what they said - they had booked lunch out and were going to see their grandparents afterwards. And your Dh obviously made the decision as to whether he could do his job or not. And I would imagine his reason for not going to it was good as I'm sure he would very much have wanted to be there.

Sirzy our school has things on almost every Saturday and many Sundays (sports, arts, trips, boosters etc). Some are compulsory, some aren't. None are for every child, some are for very few children. We balance our events with other important commitments and work out compromises.

OP I hope for your sake this boy's family aren't religious...

You may think Mothering Sunday isn't important but it IS a religious event, one which is devoted to spending the day with family attending the mother church...

If he is, and his family are of the mind to complain about religious discrimination by you scheduling an all day rehearsal on a religious event, then kicking him out for not attending that rehearsal thus penalising him for his faith you are going to have fun explaining that one.

As someone who regularly directs massive productions and who would NEVER schedule a dress rehearsal for a known calendar /religious event YABU - and all of your excuses (which is what they are) don't change that. You could have worked around it if you had tried - but as MD isn't important to YOU and you possibly didn't know the religious importance for some, you didn't care and did what suited YOU.

Nice. And discriminatory as you made a written rule that excluded any child who celebrates the religious Mothering Sunday.

Think you fucked up there and this could go badly for you AND the school.... I'd backpedals now if I were you.

YANBU I just don't understand the huge fuss about Mothering Sunday. DS (8) had a rugby tournament all day and its a commitment so he went with DH. I took DD to a party that we'd agreed to attend. If you make a commitment you stick to it.

Pozzled Sun 10-Mar-13 19:58:37

I agree with Mrs malcolmreynolds

OP, YANBU. As you have said, you have reasons why it had to be today, the whole family was informed of the importance of attending rehearsals right from the start, and they obviously made no effort to contact you in advance to explain any (possible) extenuating circumstances.

I am shocked at how many people think you should make an exception for this one family, without even receiving an apology or explanation from the parents.

However, YABU to post in AIBU when you've obviously made your mind up already.

Bowlersarm Sun 10-Mar-13 19:58:50

YANBU

He (and his parents) took on this commitment. His parents should have ensured he was able to keep to it.

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 19:59:37

But manic don't you see how having things compulsory at a weekend can make things hard for children and their families? the school week is 5 days not 4.

Out of interest is this a private school?

ponyandpotatopie Sun 10-Mar-13 20:01:45

Boneybackjefferson - this isn't RADA. It's a school play and this child has practised for 5 months only to be chucked out at the last minute.

It's a massive commitment for a child to give up their social time - it's really precious time for a child after being at school all day. And rehearsing for 5 months! Poor kid.

Bowlersarm Sun 10-Mar-13 20:02:34

sirzy he committed to it knowing that it involved a whole day at school this Sunday. If he didn't want to do that then he shouldn't have made himself available for the part. All the other children seemed to turn up today, won't a problem for them

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 20:03:17

shesparkles - I take your point but I think it's very unlikely that this family only realised on Friday that it was mother's day in 2 days time. Even if they didn't connect the dates straight away they should have noticed at least 2 or 3 weeks ago.

don'tmind - in many schools, yes. But all our parents are quite involved and our children all have plenty of life opportunity (private school).

I'm only really answering the questions now btw, I'm not not acknowledging that more than half have said we were unreasonable.

Shoppinglist Sun 10-Mar-13 20:04:15

So are you going to reconsider and let him back in the play?

CelticPromise Sun 10-Mar-13 20:05:09

OP YANBU. The rules were clear. People who are so bothered about Mothers' Day are at liberty to check the date and not sign up. Plenty of life continues on these 'special' days! I would have been playing rugby myself if not up the duff, DH went cycling, big fat hairy deal.

People who wish to go to church can go Saturday or Sunday evening or find an early service.

I don't get the massive deal over Mothers' Day. It's my first one without my mum, I still see no need for the world to stop.

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 20:06:27

how many 13 year olds really know what they are going to have on a sunday in 5 months time? Actually how many people know what they are going to have on on a sunday in 5 months time?

Unless the letter clearly stated "unfortunatly this rehersal falls on mothering sunday" then how would people have known it was a day which to a lot of families is important especially with mothers day being early this year

DontmindifIdo Sun 10-Mar-13 20:06:33

OP - do you want DCs who want to do the play or only the DCs who's parents want them to do the play? This boy has parents who aren't committed to him doing extra curricular activities, so he doesn't get to do them and the school doesn't try to make it possible for him to take part.

This boy will never get to do stuff if his parents don't care about anything outside of academic work (you see that over and over, it's so hard for a child to overcome parental apathy if teachers don't step up). His education experience is going to be very, very different to other students in your school who have parents who want to give them every opportunity they can. You don't seem to think that matters. That is very sad.

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 20:07:04

People who wish to go to church can go Saturday or Sunday evening or find an early service

Only if those services are available. My church does one service a week.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 20:07:12

Glad my kids have teachers that are kid thoughtful human beings.....

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 20:07:41

coolaschmoola we're a religious school and I and almost all other staff are practising Christians. Events on religious festivals has never caused a problem in the past ... maybe this will be a first!

sirzy yes it is and yes, the events can be a pain (I'm a parent of the school as well as a teacher) but, tbh, we choose the school for our children knowing all this.

idshagphilspencer Sun 10-Mar-13 20:07:42

kind

fascicle Sun 10-Mar-13 20:08:20

Like mrsmalcolmreynolds upthread, I'm staggered by some of the responses on here. I had no idea that Mother's Day was an unmissable family day, taking precedence over signed up commitments. I don't understand why the OP is seen as punishing the boy, rather than the parents who have made the decision that he couldn't attend the dress rehearsal. Why couldn't they have been flexible?

If there are 70 children involved, presumably a number of them will have had to miss other opportunities to attend rehearsals - the process wouldn't work if everybody decided the play was no longer a priority after they had signed up, and that rehearsals were optional.

StillStuck Sun 10-Mar-13 20:08:52

I agree with dontmind

Also, it is only a school play, from your op it seems like you have totally lost perspective.

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 20:09:38

So practising christians still can't see why a christian festival could cause problems? And you still can't see how that is unreasonable?

Madness. IDshap - I hope when my son starts school his teacher are like your childrens!

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 20:11:33

shoppinglist - I don't know, I doubt it. I'm going to show this thread to the main director (I told him I was going to gather opinions here!) but I don't think I've had my view changed.

Maybe if it had been a unanimous YABU I would have had to conclude that I was wrong but there have been several posters on our side too.

VictorTango Sun 10-Mar-13 20:12:15

My heart says - On mother days? shock What were you thinking OP? Plan better next time!!!

My head says - I would have taken dd1 to any of her various activities today and not really thought that much about it.

Make of that what you will grin

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 10-Mar-13 20:14:09

ponyandpotatopie

"this isn't RADA" and your point is?

RADA is just a school, would you still be complaining when they do the same thing?

fairylightsinthesnow Sun 10-Mar-13 20:16:42

YANBU. Haven't read all six pages, but the first two. I work in the independent sector so I understand the issues about scheduling something as big as this and why it can't just be on a different day. You would be U IF:
1) you hadn't made it clear in writing from the outset
2) the boy's parents had come to you with sufficient notice about why it was especially an issue for them (bereavement or illness etc as some have suggested may make Mother's Day more of a deal)OR a big crisis near the time. Communication is everything, even with a less than life or death reason the OP may have acted differently if the parents had bothered to open a dialogue. if she doesn't kick him off, it is manifestly unfair to the other kids and hopeless for setting a precedent.

If it was a religious observance of Mothering Sunday that got in the way, there are ways round that, and sometimes, choices have to be made. In my school we have a lot of Jewish boys and they just CAN'T be on the major sports teams that have most fixtures on a Saturday if they are not going to play on the Sabbath. It is not discriminatory, its just practical.

WellSlapMyThighAndCallMeNancy Sun 10-Mar-13 20:16:58

Im on the fence.

To start with I felt YABU, you're punishing the child because of the parents. Thats quite unfair. Of both the parents and you.

However, hes missed several other meets so I kind of lost my sympathy a bit.

Had he been to every one, every time then I would think YABVU.

Contracts, kicked out, warned.

Gosh, sounds like the army. Poor kid. I wish I hadn't read this thread sad

iliketea Sun 10-Mar-13 20:18:43

YANBU - maybe it's "only a school production" but there are 69 other children plus staff / crew who all managed to make the dress rehearsal. The parents / child signed it in advance to committ to those rehearsal dates; maybe it will be a lesson in life that if you committ to something you should honour that. What if in years to come said child is working on mothering sunday? He'll not bother going in because it's a special day? If families were so concerned about the date, they could have checked the calender and identified they didn't want to committ to the rehearsal schdule.

Dneice was recently in a school production, had to sign committing to rehearsals with a clause of 2 misses and your out. OK it was "only a school production" but it was in a public theatre, advertised to the general public for raising school funds. Why should someone pay to see someone who's not rehearsed properly and why should the other cast members be affected by a family who didn't take the rehearsal schedule seriously?

Shoppinglist Sun 10-Mar-13 20:19:00

Nothing quite like crushing a 13 year old on a Sunday.

I'd speak to the boy, find out why he didn't attend and if he wasn't allowed how can you punish him? Perhaps say he can take his part this time but has detention.

MerylStrop Sun 10-Mar-13 20:19:38

It's not the Mother's Day issue that makes you unreasonable, it's the kicking the 13 year old out because of a choice his parents made.

The other 70 families were obviously far too scared not to be there

This play is obv a big big deal. But making an example of this poor kid after he's been working towards it for 6 months? Horrible.

Roseformeplease Sun 10-Mar-13 20:20:11

YADNBU. Children (and parents) are all too often let off the hook (and I am guilty of this) and education is about more than just the lessons or the Drama. Pupils need to learn about the importance of making a commitment. A cast is a team that is only as good as its least committed player. If the Mother (or Father, or Grandparents) really wanted an all-round education for their child, then they would be hammering this home by making a 13 year old honour a commitment, rather than expecting them to be let off.

As teachers we have to draw a lone, and hold it. If one child is allowed to miss then, very shortly, you end up with half the cast missing.

And, yes, I have children and I too have been rehearsing all day. Our lunch was a dinner and we are going out next weekend with my Step Mother.

And, in a private school, there are often very "entitled" parents who feel they are buying a service that means they can expect University places and glittering prizes but their only input is cash, they can be just as neglectful as anyparents.

Molehillmountain Sun 10-Mar-13 20:21:00

DH is a drama teacher and has had big rehearsals the last two weekends. A few years ago they did one on Mothering Sunday and there were lots of complaints. They did the rehearsal that would have been today yesterday, iyswim. Ywnbu to expect attendance but Mothering Sunday is not the best day for a rehearsal. I was one of the ones complaining a few years ago-dh was out nine til seven on Mothering Sunday.

fascicle Sun 10-Mar-13 20:22:22

This isn't RADA
No, but the drama over the importance of Mothers Day is RADA worthy.

CelticPromise Sun 10-Mar-13 20:24:06

Fair enough Sirzy, I frequently go to a different parish in order to fit mass around sports at the weekend but I recognise if you're somewhere without many churches that would be hard.

CelticPromise Sun 10-Mar-13 20:26:28

The Mothers' Day fuss on here reminds me of some of the threads about adult birthdays that I don't understand either. It's just not that big a deal.

Bugsylugs Sun 10-Mar-13 20:26:56

Definitely YANBU. There have as far as I can make out been 8 weeks of rehearsals of which the boy has missed by the sound of it 4. Yes we know Mothering Sunday is really important to some but the family have known what was signed up for. MD has been I the TV in the shops for weeks soothe family will not have just realised.
Why do this family think they are more entitled and important than others? We were brought up to honour commitments as are my family. Am amazed that others are so willing to let others down.

Loshad Sun 10-Mar-13 20:27:41

YADNBU, he knew what he signing up too, and chose not to follow those.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 20:31:02

nice to have some more NBUs coming in, I was really starting to think we might have made a mistake.

nottersgotterdonkey Sun 10-Mar-13 20:33:48

Hmm made up ?

It's not Sunday Night at the London Palladium.

I don't believe a school play is that precious - unless you are working in a stage school.

NonnoMum Sun 10-Mar-13 20:34:32

Actually, changed my mind.

stone him.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 10-Mar-13 20:36:20

This thread does go to show just how unappreciated those that organise actives outside of school are.

Chiggers Sun 10-Mar-13 20:36:54

YANBU. Mother's Day is every year. A school production isn't every year, except nativity.

The mother, knowing there was a good chance of the lad losing his place and after being warned of such, insists that the lad has the day off to see other family. This results in the boy losing his place on the production. I think the lad's parent(s) have a bloody cheek being cross when they were clearly warned that their precious DC had a good chance of losing his part.

When you sign up for something, you commit to it and only take time off if unwell or an emergency.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 20:38:10

not a stage school but an independent where sport, drama and music are ranked on a par with academics, meaning that time is fought over and scheduling is a nightmare.

nottersgotterdonkey Sun 10-Mar-13 20:38:53

Not at all. If there are 70 people in the play, unless this child is playing the lead role, is it really such a big deal?

Sirzy Sun 10-Mar-13 20:40:40

This thread does go to show just how unappreciated those that organise actives outside of school are.

I am a youth worker who organises plenty of activities outside of school time.

I am also aware that life doesn't revolve around activities and that children have families and other commitments and therefore expectations have to be realistic and have an element of flexibility in them.

Somethingtothinkabout Sun 10-Mar-13 20:41:39

I'm weighing in with a very large YANBU.

His parents are unreasonable and unfair. But that is not the OP's fault.

Having grown up involved in a lot of sport teams, there is absolutely nothing more frustrating than other 'team members' thinking they are entitled to not bother to turn up when it suits them.

Basically, these parents thought they could have their cake and eat it. Harsh for the little boy, but the responsibility for that rests squarely at the feet of his parents.

Plus, since this boy has a large-ish part, I'm sure there were other, more committed children who would have loved his part.

ChocsAwayInMyGob Sun 10-Mar-13 20:42:29

YABU.

I get that YOU don't think it's important, but a little tolerance of others would go a long way. It's not up to you to decide he could do that "any other Sunday"

I personally would not have scheduled an all day rehearsal on Mother's Day and would have moved mountains to find another way. I can understand that you found that difficult due to timings and dates, but I disagree with your attitude that MD is not important to you nor should it be for others.

choirmum Sun 10-Mar-13 20:43:32

YADNBU. The rules were laid out 5 months ago. No-one was forced to take part. As a parent, I'd put his commitment above any plans we would make,given that there was so much notice given. What's wrong with an evening meal for goodness sake? And you're a mother every day, not just on an arbitrary Sunday.

snice Sun 10-Mar-13 20:46:04

I will give you another YANBU.

Can't believe all the extraordinary comments about the 'specialness' of Mothers Day outranking all other engagements-there must be thousands of us who have spent Mothers Day shivering pitchside! When did it all become such a big over-commercialised fuss?

Bowlersarm Sun 10-Mar-13 20:48:20

If you have 70 odd children involved you can't afford to be flexible. It's not fair on those who do bother and who the event (play, sports, music etc) is really important to. If my children commit to something, especially if it affects many many people then they stay committed unless they are ill. His parents are at fault here and unfortunately their behaviour is having an impact on the child.

I've tried to keep an open mind after reading most posts, and OP, I still think YANBU

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 10-Mar-13 20:48:23

A quick google shows there were a lot of national competitions held today for under 18's, it seems mothers day isn't a date that many people would think a barrier for activities that require commitment and attendance...

In the abscence of any particular pressing reasons I still don't think the OP is BU.

School is there to reinforce life lessons and to coordinate lots of people - although I still feel for the boy, his parents are the ones who should be feeling ashamed of themselves for putting their desires above the work their child has already put in. For the OP to back down just reinforces their attitude to their son - whinge enough and you'll get your own way no matter how many other people are involved and have played by the rules. Hopefully this goes some way to counteracting that for him. Extremely tough for him, but how horrible to go through life with those expectations. You're not young and blameless forever.

Manic out of interest what times were the kids expected to be there? I would have thought a decent amount of the evening would have been left for meals out etc.

MummytoKatie Sun 10-Mar-13 20:51:20

Question - has the boy been kicked out to "punish" him or because, having missed the dress rehearsal there are large numbers of important changes in the production that he now won't know? Because there are 70 kids in this play who have all worked hard and it would be a shame if the play was damaged because one person was in the wrongq place at the wrong time.

My own experience is from Gang Shows (ie 200 Scouts and Guides). The opening number (where I was slap bang in the middle quite close to the back) had all 200 kids in it. The second number was a front of curtain line up with 6 of us. I had about 2 lines of solo but my solo was first. It was only in the dress rehearsal that we discovered that it was not possible for someone starting from my position in the "gang" to make it against 200 people going in the opposite direction to the front of curtain in time for my solo. (I missed it.) I was mortified to miss it for the dress rehearsal. It would have been soooo much worse if it had happened on opening night. And I wasn't even particularly important - those 2 lines were the only time I was seen. [No talent whatsoever emoticon]

Eastpoint Sun 10-Mar-13 20:52:26

YADNBU

Presumably the family has a diary of some variety on which they mark rehearsals, term dates etc. most of these also have Valentine's day, Easter Day, Mothering Sunday printed on them. If they chose to ignore the clash they must suffer the penalties. Next weekend my DS's school has a rehearsal all day on Sunday but because there is also a county sports tournament at which many of the boys will be playing the rehearsal is starting & finishing later. If there is such a clash in future can you have the technical run through first for the crew & sound & lighting team & then have the main rehearsal starting at 1430? I suppose the entitled would simply turn up late.

Uppermid Sun 10-Mar-13 20:52:42

Was he the only child that couldn't make it?

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 10-Mar-13 20:54:11

Sirzy

There is being flexible and there is being taken for a mug.

As I said implied upthread, the 49 children on a bus waiting to go to France were more important than the one whose parents couldn't/would get their DC to the school on time.

69 pupils were relying on this child to turn up, god knows how many stage hands, lighting technicians etc.

Why should one person be more important than all of the others?

ProPerformer Sun 10-Mar-13 20:54:21

TBH after reading the whole thread thus far, I think I'd still need a bit more info to tell I YAB or not. May 'out with this anecdote but...'

In our dramatics society DH and I often go to alternate rehearsals as otherwise we couldn't both be in the show because otherwise we'd have no childcare and couldn't be in the show (our friends are all in the shows too and just can't afford babysitters) but this is always agreed with the director/MD in advance and we always make tec/dress etc and try our best to both be at rehearsals nearer the time if we can! In our last show when we both had roles rather than chorus we did 'rehearsal relay' for the last two weeks, taking it in turns to sit in the car outside the rehearsal halls with sleeping DS while the other was rehearsing their scenes!!
Having said that, a few years ago I did miss a tec run for a non-important event (I think it was a friend's hen night) but again this was arranged and agreed with the creative team in advance. We also often have rehearsals on Mothering Sunday or other such days.

I think the boys parents WBU for not letting you know more in advance that it would be difficult for their DS to rehearse today, they probably didn't realise when they signed the 'contract' what day it was but surely they realised a bit in advance. It seems a great shame to kick the boy out of the play at this late stage but do understand the commitment reason, - to be fair there isn't really a 'compromise' situation is there!? If you kick him out YABU to him punishing him for what is probably his parent's decision, but if you let him stay in the production YABU to all the other parents who 'gave up their mother's day' to let their DC's rehearse! A pretty thankless situation really!!

Maybe learn from this and reschedule if it falls on mothers day another year. Does it have to be all day or could it just be an afternoon in future?

As I said I'm on the fence, a big part of me says YABU poor kid, but another big part of me says YANBU as I see he has missed other rehearsals. Then again, working in a school I do wonder, like another poster, how many kids were not even allowed to audition because of realising it was compulsory to attend on MD - I know my parents nearly didn't let me audition for a school production as one of the Compulsory rehearsals was on a day I had clashes - I did audition, and got the part, and didn't attend the rehearsal in question!! But it was only because I had stated my reasons on auditioning and agreed to make all other rehearsals and an extra one to go over a special scene.

Anyway sorry for the ramble! Basically I feel for you OP, you really are in a ''buggered if you do, buggered of you don't" situation here as my Nan used to say.

BadabingBadabong Sun 10-Mar-13 20:54:42

Aah a christian, well that explains your hard ass, un christian like attitude then.
You don't come across as a very nice person.

Growlithe Sun 10-Mar-13 20:55:21

The lad is better off out of it because I can only imagine you lot becoming even bigger nightmares as showtime draws nearer.

Hope he had a great, relaxing time today with his folks and didn't give it another thought.

P.S. If your rules are that set in stone, why are you saying you would have reconsidered if MN came down against you? What's MN got to do with your school's rule setting?

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 20:58:51

Iamsparkly - they were there 9.30-5.30 so yes, plenty of time.

MummytoKatie - it's not about punishment. I wrote this earlier but deleted it as it sounded like more excuses but it really is about practicalities. He doesn't know how to use the radio mics, who he changes his with, the layout of the set, the blocking changes made to reflect said layout, he hasn't had the health and safety tour of the set (which is on three levels) etc. And we perform to the school tomorrow, rest day is Tuesday and Wednesday we begin the run. If it had been an unavoidable, emergency or even long planned absence we would have felt duty bound to sort something out. But as it is, no.

DoJo Sun 10-Mar-13 21:01:34

I'm another for YANBU and I actually think you can discount any of the YABUs which revolved around imaginary illnesses, family bereavements, religious observance or any other issue which wasn't relayed to you by the parents. I also think that his parents ABU because they are the ones who have effectively kicked him out by refusing to let him come (if that was indeed the case) knowing the consequences.

How are we supposed to avoid raising a generation of entitled, irresponsible human beings who don't consider the impact of their actions upon others if we allow them to run roughshod over the rules that they agreed to when committing to an optional event?

Smithson6 Sun 10-Mar-13 21:03:23

YANBU. Like others i am gobsmacked by peoples' responses. Speshly the person who said that you dont know how many children were not allowed to audition by their parents because they would have to rehearse on mothers' day.

Are there really people who know or care when mothers day is 5 months in advance? and you would not let your kids do something in the event of a clash? Really?

you. are. all bonkers.

Except the people who agree with me. you're not.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 21:03:55

growlithe - I said that because, if 160 ish people taken as a random sample of the parent body of schools all thought we had made a wrong decision then the chances are that we did. Not because it was mumsnet. Chances are we still wouldn't have changed the decision, out of both practicality and principal. I did say might.

JaquelineHyde Sun 10-Mar-13 21:05:22

It's a school play!

YABU and really quite mean to a 13 year old boy who probably had no control over a decision his parents enforced.

Oh and as far as I am concerned Mother's Day is as about as important as a school play. Make of that what you will.

matchpoint Sun 10-Mar-13 21:06:16

"I actually think you can discount any of the YABUs which revolved around imaginary illnesses, family bereavements, religious observance or any other issue which wasn't relayed to you by the parents"

100% agreement on the above.

YANBU OP. I hope this boy has learnt a valuable lesson about making and keeping commitments.

ProPerformer Sun 10-Mar-13 21:08:58

Having read about the fact you are using radio mikes and three level sets, YANBU!! Radio miles are a PITA at the best of times, but when you have to keep changing them with others/fit them on your costume, that really does require lots of rehearsal and slick changes or you are doomed to have accidents! Plus 3 level setting is very different from rehearsing on the flat so again will require rehearsal and changes.

However, unless it's a rock musical or you have a very loud full band/orchestra/loads of electrical instruments YABVU to use radio mikes in the first place - the kids should learn to project their voices over the band! Tsk! grin (please note that last comment was meant to be lighthearted and jokey! Coming from an operatic background I hate radio mikes with a passion but unfortunately they are pretty much a nesesity nowadays and I've had to learn to live with them!)

bangwhizz Sun 10-Mar-13 21:09:57

We didn't have our regular sunday rehearsal to day because it is Mothering Sunday.How stupid to organise the dress rehearsal of a kids production for Mothers Day!

SpecialAgentKat Sun 10-Mar-13 21:10:49

I'm shocked at how many YABU's you're getting OP and all the sly comments about how mean you are, etc etc If this boy's grandparent had an illness or something crucial surely they would have told you?

It sucks for the lad, but this isn't your fault, it's his parents. They knew their involvement and chose to take the "but our special circumstance is more important" road, and their son paid the price. I wonder how he's feeling towards his family now? sad
I'll never understand the craze around commercial holidays. If DH weren't such a softie, I'd forget Valentines most years. blush

I think parents expect too much of schools. I have many friends who are teachers. For all those saying 'why couldn't you rearrange etc etc,' setting up a school play/excursion/overnight trips takes months and months. I've had friends in tears of frustration about permission slips, rants about why their little prince/princess didn't get the part they deserved (Seriously not kidding, that was the exact term used by one parent) Making changes at the last minute from what I've seen seems to mean new permission slips in case of being sued as well as repeated reminders for kids to show up. What would of happened if OP had changed last minute and say, seven children didn't show up and she was forced to boot them? Kinda a lose/lose situation IMO.

TL;DR YADDDDDDNBU

GreatUncleEddie Sun 10-Mar-13 21:14:31

My son was at a rehearsal all day today. Never considered him missing it.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 10-Mar-13 21:15:09

bangwhizz
"We didn't have our regular sunday rehearsal to day because it is Mothering Sunday"

This isn't a regular rehearsal its the final dress rehearsal.

freddiefrog Sun 10-Mar-13 21:17:54

This thread does go to show just how unappreciated those that organise actives outside of school are.

I help a lot in school, and we are taking part in Global Rock Challenge which is on right now.

We are scheduling rehearsals for 70 children, building sets, props and costumes, but I can still appreciate that children and their families have lives outside school and have other commitments and would understand that some kids may not be able to attend. We scheduled a rehearsal during half term, some kids didn't turn up, some could only be there for half a day, we worked round it, it wasn't the end of the world. The main bulk of our rehearsals are after school.

TomArchersSausage Sun 10-Mar-13 21:19:50

I feel very sorry for him if he had no control in the matter but having said that no, I don't think YABU and the people responsible for this unhappy outcome and any hurt he may feel are the family. They supported the commitment and signed that they understood it but then reneged on it.

I think mothers day is important but letting people down at the last moment is unacceptable and gives a 13 yr old the impression that being unreliable is an option.

Out of interest how will you replace him at such short notice if the role is a main one?

Growlithe Sun 10-Mar-13 21:20:47

OP - perhaps listening to a random group of 160 internet forum members is still not the best way to make decisions on reversing the kind of action you have taken, even if you did just say might.

I mean, as you and I both know OP, such forums can be full of goady folk who just like to get a rise out of people by saying controversial stuff. wink

fairylightsinthesnow Sun 10-Mar-13 21:20:52

As for the "its only a school play" comments - I think the people who have posted that perhaps don't appreciate the effort, time, commitment and money involve in the large scale productions that are put on by many senior schools, not just independents. We recently did a huge one that took months of rehearsals, full orchestra, sound and lighting etc. The students who participated, I have absolutely NO doubt, will always remember it as a hugely important part of their school life and the quality of the finished product was as near to professional as you could wish. I agree with the poster upthread who said some of the responses on here demonstrate the lack of appreciation by some parents for the work that goes into this kind of thing by teachers who will be doing it all on top of their usual teaching load.

SpecialAgentKat Sun 10-Mar-13 21:23:24

fairylightsinthesnow Sun 10-Mar-13 21:20:52
As for the "its only a school play" comments - I think the people who have posted that perhaps don't appreciate the effort, time, commitment and money involve in the large scale productions that are put on by many senior schools, not just independents. We recently did a huge one that took months of rehearsals, full orchestra, sound and lighting etc. The students who participated, I have absolutely NO doubt, will always remember it as a hugely important part of their school life and the quality of the finished product was as near to professional as you could wish. I agree with the poster upthread who said some of the responses on here demonstrate the lack of appreciation by some parents for the work that goes into this kind of thing by teachers who will be doing it all on top of their usual teaching load.

This. Yet ^always these are the same people who expect allowances for their own extra special circumstances, in my experience.

MummytoKatie Sun 10-Mar-13 21:23:31

Manic

That's what I thought. In which case YANBU. Would it even be legal to put the boy on without his H&S tour? If he fell off the scenery and broke his leg I suspect the parents might (rightly) be a tad aggrieved.

the only thing I am thinking is that in future it may be worth you checking out the unmissable dates for MD and other religious festivals and putting "please note the dress rehearsal is on ... and cannot be missed for this reason" on the original permission slip.

Not because I think you are obliged but because it would reduce hassle for you which is always a good thing.

Shesparkles Sun 10-Mar-13 21:24:11

To be fair, OP, I do actually think YANBU, particularly given that there has been a bit of a history with the family and commitment.
I'm a real stickler for honouring commitments, and can be a bit "rules is rules" myself. HOWEVER, I think it was pretty shortsighted of school staff to not have checked the days which these rehearsals fell on. Whilst the other 69 kids managed to turn up, I'll bet there were a lot of families were unable to do things with other family members because of short sightedness in your shortsightedness.

Shesparkles Sun 10-Mar-13 21:26:25

Shortsightedness in forward planning!

fluffypillow Sun 10-Mar-13 21:27:24

I think you should have let it go.

Kicking the boy out was a massive overreaction.

You were lucky to have everyone else turn up.

Give the boy his part back, he has obviously worked for it.

YABVU.

shesariver Sun 10-Mar-13 21:28:33

The Mothers' Day fuss on here reminds me of some of the threads about adult birthdays that I don't understand either. It's just not that big a deal

OP I dont actually think YABU at all but attitudes such as this above make me angry, it shows some peoples total inflexibility in thinking - that is because THEY dont think something is important, in this case Mothers Day they don't understand why others may think differently.

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 10-Mar-13 21:31:54

That works both ways surely shesariver?

Hulababy Sun 10-Mar-13 21:32:40

Poor kid. Punished at the last minute due to something he had no control over. sad let's hope he isn't too upset and it doesn't mess up other stuff for him, ESP his confidence in school.

As for the whole independent school - yeah been there done that. Still think it's too much to punish a child for something he can't control. Ones I know wouldn't do it and yes some amazing shows still happening.

If it was the child making the choices I'd have no issue with it, but he is still a child and would not have been able to over rule what happened today.

But hey - so long as the school play is okay yeah?!

willesden Sun 10-Mar-13 21:34:57

YABU. You sound like a right diva director. He is best out of it imo.

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Sun 10-Mar-13 21:35:22

YANBU

I was in every school production at secondary school - loved doing them to pieces. The final rehearsal week was always my birthday and so five birthdays were spent rehearsing. As a committed cast member it royally pissed me off when people with important parts couldn't be bothered to turn up (not counting illness, etc. ).

Our productions were good, but not as slick as they could have been if the rules had been tighter. May not be RADA to some, but for kids like I was who loved performing but hadn't a snowball's chance in Hell of ever getting within spitting distance of a stage school, it was the closest we'd get and we wanted it to be amazing.

I'm now a secondary teacher (not drama) and our school's productions are fantastic, mostly due to the hard-line stance taken by the teachers involved (of which I'm not one as I have committed to other things instead). Students take tremendous pride in their shows, as well they should as the quality reflects a group's dedication for the best they can do.

The parents knew the dates. If you let one kid off for a non-emergency, putting aside h&s concerns, there will be more next year and the quality goes down as commitment does.

Smithson6 Sun 10-Mar-13 21:38:06

But the play is not going to be OK is it? one of the main parts has not rehearsed and is going to be in a position of letting all the cast down by missing his cues and so on. Those of you that think OP is such a meanie, don't you think that she has an obligation to the others in the play to not let them down and to the individual himself by not putting him in a situation where he is out of his depth and likely to publically fuck up?

I am totally in team OP.

It's not about Mother's Day, birthdays etc...... It's about a good teacher understanding that not all children have 100%backing of families and taking that into account. This child cannot be responsible for his parents actions.

MummytoKatie Sun 10-Mar-13 21:39:29

Either the play matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't then he won't care if he's in or not. And if it does then it presumably matters to the other 69 too.

If he can't find his dresser for his change then the lad can't go on in his pants. And I don't think it will be great for Juliet's confidence to do the balcony scene in front of the entire school and have Romeo not turn up.

IloveJudgeJudy Sun 10-Mar-13 21:41:28

Another one saying YANBU. Boy and his parents knew right from the start the commitment that needed to be made. They knew the date of the final dress rehearsal and knew that if this rehearsal wasn't attended then he would be out. They still decided that he had to go and visit his grandparents. They have no leg to stand on. I feel very sorry for the pupil, but what about all the other 69, technicians, not to mention the OP who have turned up today. If the OP lets him back on, what does that say to the others in the play? What message does that give? Don't worry about others, just about yourself?

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 10-Mar-13 21:43:37

DreamsTurnToGoldDust
"It's about a good teacher understanding that not all children have 100%backing of families and taking that into account."

And sometimes being a good teacher is putting the needs of the many ahead of the needs of the few or the one.

SpecialAgentKat Sun 10-Mar-13 21:46:16

What message would it send the other 69 students if he got his role back?

A.) Not fair. Why did he get special treatment?
B.) If my parents/I stomp my feet enough, I don't have to stick to my responsibilities either.

shesariver Sun 10-Mar-13 21:47:22

That works both ways surely shesariver?

Of course it does, but I would never say something is no big deal just because it isn't to me and I can fully understand why it isn't to others.

Goldenbear Sun 10-Mar-13 21:47:40

YABU.

Signed contracts for school productions- is he getting paid for this production? I went to private school, performed in a few school productions, we didn't have signed contracts and most of us still managed to become responsible adults.

In contrast to the poster above my performances, which I enjoyed at the time, aren't some of the most memorable events of my life. Precisely because they were NOT stage school productions, they were a bit of fun!

shesariver Sun 10-Mar-13 21:48:20

Im still amazed that a school production is spending thousands of pounds on sets mind you!

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 21:48:27

properformer – totally agree with you re radio mics, I HATE having to use them – we don’t even have a full orchestra! However, I am always astonished at the extent to which children’s voices lack power and there’s no way 80% of ours could be heard at the back of the theatre without them.

specialagent fairylights incrediblephat- exactly!

uncleeddie if he was at ours then thank you very much! grin

tomarchers it isn’t a main part, just a decent one. We have an understudy who was knows the lines and was there (a chorus member and we reblocked the choreography for the chorus so that he could come out of it)

growlithe - good point! It was a stupid thought/comment really. I’m a little bit over susceptible to other people’s opinions at times!

mummytokatie - I think it would be illegal (unless of course we gave him a separate one which we would have found time to do for illness etc)

MamaMumra Sun 10-Mar-13 21:48:40

OP I dont actually think YABU at all but attitudes such as this above make me angry, it shows some peoples total inflexibility in thinking - that is because THEY dont think something is important, in this case Mothers Day they don't understand why others may think differently.

Yes I think that's how the OP has sounded. I still think YABU. and a bit triumphalist too.

AlwaysWashing Sun 10-Mar-13 21:51:33

On one hand you are saying "It's only Mother's Day" but you are getting stroppy over them saying "It's only a rehearsal for a school play".
I say good on them for prioritising & putting family first.

ivykaty44 Sun 10-Mar-13 21:53:36

If mothers day is such an important Sunday in the calendar for a family - then of course they would know that it was going to be the 10 march in 2013 and they would know this or check with it being a sunday so close to the easter holidays - after all mothering sunday is a moveable feast but it is always three sundays before easter sunday so usually two weeks before the end of the spring term, that part doesn't alter much.

NonnoMum Sun 10-Mar-13 21:54:50

OK - just realised that this is a private school - yup sack him.
Good luck with the chat with the head and bursar afterwards...

chubbychipmonk Sun 10-Mar-13 21:56:52

I can understand you being annoyed / angry / frustrated he wasn't’ there but at 13 he prob had no choice in not going if his parents put the foot down if other family plans were made.

Feel really sorry for the poor boy who now has prob had a bit of his confidence dented, will be embarrassed when he goes to school on Mon telling his peers he's no longer in the play & there's prob been some sort of argument at home about it. Kicking him out the play was totally OTT & unfair on a 13 year old.

SpecialAgentKat Sun 10-Mar-13 22:01:29

NonnoMum Sun 10-Mar-13 21:54:50
OK - just realised that this is a private school - yup sack him.
Good luck with the chat with the head and bursar afterwards...

In other words, parents foot stomping?

ivykaty44 Sun 10-Mar-13 22:08:23

yes the parents might kick up a right fuss that they didn't stick to the signed agreement and you carried through with the threat - the rules didn't apply to them you know OP - there are a lot of people that don't think the rules apply to them and I wonder if it is due to growing up in a world where they didn't suffer the consequences of not following the rules and no repercussion. Its a let down sad

FantasticDay Sun 10-Mar-13 22:08:40

I'm really surprised a church school would schedule this on Mothers Day. I'm surprised any of the kids could make it.

HazleNutt Sun 10-Mar-13 22:10:44

so people really believe, that even though it was made clear that if you want to be in the play, you have to be there for all rehearsals, the OP should just make an exception anyway? How do you think all other kids will feel, who might have cancelled their plans and made an effort to be there?

Some of the YABU aren't that Hazle they are YABU to have a rehearsal ALL DAY on Mothering Sunday.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 22:12:59

we're not a church school, we just have a christian ethos, as a large number of independent schools do. C of E or Catholic churches maybe take mother's day more seriously, it's not a festival I've ever known to be particularly marked in churches I've attended.

And our head will support us. We pass all paperwork to parents by him first to make sure he's happy with what we're saying.

HazleNutt Sun 10-Mar-13 22:18:26

Yes if there were other options then I personally would not schedule rehearsals for such dates either. But that's the point - parents and the boy knew the dates and promised that he will be there. He wasn't. They were warned of what the consequences are. I don't see what else OP could have done, unless she wanted to make a loud and clear statement that the rules only apply to some people and not others.

cantreachmytoes Sun 10-Mar-13 22:25:39

YANBU!
Not at all!
The situation is horrible, particularly for the boy, but that does not equal it being OP's fault.

The school pushes drama as much as academics from what OP said. The parents presumably didn't send DS to such a school hoping he wouldn't be involved in big, quality (i assume) productions? The only way you can get quality from a large group of children in a relatively short period of time is by having rules. His being in the play now would jeopardise that quality for the other 69, and THAT is not fair.

It's horrible for DS, but that does not mean OP is U, nor does it mean the boy should get his part back. It would be nice to be nice, but it's not fair on the 69+ people who managed to have Mother's Day dinner, breakfast or postpone it.

And I am a lover of being spoilt on MD, but it's not Christmas, it's not even a holiday!

TomArchersSausage Sun 10-Mar-13 22:27:09

70 sets of parents took the commitment on board and one family not.

It's not fair on the other 70 to make exceptions for 1. No doubt many of them would have preferred to do special things on M/Day but they still turned up.

Then if you think about it there's birthdays to consider. They could potentially come along at any time and blow a hole in the thing. You have to draw the line somewhere.

To put on such a big play with so many in it (sounds an organisational nightmare) you'd have to have some pretty stiff ground rules, otherwise it'd be organised chaos which isn't fair to those who have been 100% reliable.

It's horrible for the boy concerned, I feel sorry for him if his family are unsupportive. But if I was manicinsomniac I'd sooner be dealing with one complaining family (who made a clear choice about not allowing their boy to attend) than 70 who could legitimately question why they're bothering to turn up regardless of where they prefer to be when others don't have to follow suit.

I wonder if those saying YABU would be so understanding if the actions of one ruined the hard work of their own dc in something like this.

teatrolley Sun 10-Mar-13 22:29:54

I don't think you were at all unreasonable and I think you made your views clear. I still feel sorry for the boy because it wasn't his choice not to be there.

ProPerformer Sun 10-Mar-13 22:31:44

OP I hear you about kids voices lacking power nowadays! We have some AMAZING singers where I work, but if asked to sing anything above mumble volume they just can't do it and their voices go to pot!
I remember one school concert where all other soloists had mics apart from me, (Well I had one for the look/hearing loop but was on extra low) because I just belted my solo out as I'd been taught while the others whispered. grin

And to those saying"school play, not a big deal", I know of several DC who got into the BRIT school doing just school plays. Some schools take drama as seriously as maths and English. You don't like it, you don't sign up for it.

dolallylass Sun 10-Mar-13 22:39:37

YABVU. Poor lad. Harsh reaction.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Sun 10-Mar-13 22:46:12

OP, YANBU. Stick to your guns.

For those saying how must the poor boy feel, how about the understudy? He's put the work in for two parts, this one and the chorus. He's been promoted at the last minute, a reward for turning up and doing the job. How would he feel if the first boy gets the part back, when he broke the rules?

McNewPants2013 Sun 10-Mar-13 22:49:44

Yanbu, the rules and dates was made well aware of.

If my children wanted to do something and we commited to it then we would be there ( even if it fell on christmas day)

CelticPromise Sun 10-Mar-13 23:02:59

shesariver that's fine, if these things are a big deal to your family. But if that's the case you have to acknowledge that the rest of the universe continues on around you and there may be things you have to miss. Or you can think that the play is actually a bigger deal for your DS this one year, and let him go to rehearsal.

Bugsylugs Sun 10-Mar-13 23:09:35

Great for the understudy would have been very unfair on them if the 'rules' had been changed. One families loss has been another's gain.

Jux Sun 10-Mar-13 23:10:09

YANNNNNBU

You made the rules clear, everyone has known them for months. Sad for the boy, but his parents made the decision knowing what the result would be. Unless they are chancers who think rules don't apply to them.

GreenEggsAndNichts Sun 10-Mar-13 23:10:28

wow. I'm not even that precious about Mother's Day but YABU. Sure, it's a day like any other day, but that could be said about any holiday.

Silly of the family to agree months ago that he could attend the rehearsal on Mother's Day (maybe they didn't notice the date- I wouldn't have known), but also very poor planning to have it that way in the first place.

Turnipsoup Sun 10-Mar-13 23:11:48

Both you and perhaps his parents are both being VU.
You for arranging a dress rehearsal on on Mothers Day, and for kicking the boy out.... surely it is more likely to cause problems getting someone to step in to his shoes at this late stage?
His parents for presumably not considering his feelings in the matter.
I feel sorry for the boy!

thisonehasalittlecar Sun 10-Mar-13 23:16:16

Op, you've got to go to bed and stop stewing over this. You've got a show to do tomorrow!

Agrestic Sun 10-Mar-13 23:16:17

YANBU

1. If mothering Sunday was such an important family event the parents would have picked up on it at the beginning.

2. 69 other children didn't make plans or made alternative plans, it's not fair on them.

3. He won't know what the fuck he is doing on your three storey set (very impressive!) and will stand out like a sore thumb.

4. He missed the H&S talk. If he hurts himself of course it will be all your fault.

Don't back down!!

mumeeee Sun 10-Mar-13 23:17:39

YABU. DD3 is in a Drama club and they often have reheasals for plays. They are asked to attend all rehearsals but the will not be kicked out if they can't attend one and give a good explanation. In fact the person who runs the club usually caters for 3 missed rehearsals.
In our family Mothers day is quite important and I would not have been happy for an all day rehearsal to be scheduled for that day,

maddening Sun 10-Mar-13 23:19:57

What idiots felt they couldn't move the rehearsal - how stupid. Could have had it on Saturday or the week before or Friday - as it is a school production those involved could have been excused from lessons.

And to throw him out considering the stupidity of the organisers in picking the date caused what was always going to be a potentially awkward date. No one would have looked at those dates 5months ago and thought - oh that's mother's day - generally I've only remembered because there.are suddenly adverts everywhere.

FrameyMcFrame Sun 10-Mar-13 23:21:49

Op, i think my niece is in this production, I'm coming to see it on Thursday!

McNewPants2013 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:22:54

It quite ironic really, the only reason you (general) are a mum is because of your children......yet they have to miss something because of mother's day.

I am quite opposite with mother's day. I have bought the DC presents and spent the day thinking its because of them I am a mum.

Lucyellensmum95 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:24:23

wow - im glad you're not my DDs teacher

McNewPants2013 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:27:33

why lucy.

This teacher is giving up her weekend and no doubt alot of other time for this show. I would say the OP is a dedicated teacher

landrover Sun 10-Mar-13 23:28:10

Get a grip!! Its a SCHOOL PLAY!!! Hardly important in the scheme of a cv when theyve left UNI!!! Some teachers are such bloody divas! And why are the school wasting our money on bloody radio mikes etc?

Still18atheart Sun 10-Mar-13 23:31:10

YABVVVVU

When I was at school a similar thing happened. the school play was just before easter and in the run up there were several rehearsals just before. One of these Sunday rehearsals happened on Mother's Day. The maority of the parents complained and the headmaster/director said sorry, slight over sight, rehearsal cancelled spend the day with your family.

That rehearsal was then moved to the previous day, that Saturday?

Why couldn't you have done the same?

McNewPants2013 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:32:05

the stage was being set up the day before

LittleBearPad Sun 10-Mar-13 23:33:04

FFS it's a school play not Henry V at the National. YABU

Still18atheart Sun 10-Mar-13 23:33:16

I would like to add that the school this was at was private

Lucyellensmum95 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:34:17

I didn't say she isn't dedicated but i would imagine that the lad is going to be really upset. Now you could argue that his parents are to blame, but maybe MD is the only time he gets to spend time with GPs, some people live far enough away that actually they can't do the lunch another time. Also, what would happen if the child was sick? Would he still be dropped like a hot potato? Mean and bloody minded if you ask me

FWIW i wouldn't stop my DD attending because it was MD but that is besides the point

Lucyellensmum95 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:36:44

Im not sure how that is relevant Still18atheart

Maryz Sun 10-Mar-13 23:36:54

It wasn't manic who "punished" the boy.

It was his parents, who decided that their family lunch was more important than the commitment of 69 other children, their families, and all the adults organising the play.

The parents are the ones being unreasonable, and unfair.

ds2 had a match today - should I have said he couldn't play, and let all the other players down because I put Mothers' Day ahead of the team?

Some parents are incredibly selfish.

McNewPants2013 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:38:26

I do think it does teach a life lesson, there are many jobs and careers which christmas, birthday, anniversary, mother's day, father's dayand many other calender dates that you may have to miss.

Indygoes Sun 10-Mar-13 23:38:50

The one person who's being unreasonable here is the mother of the boy - she should have done what we mothers are bound to do, which is out her son first and let him go to the rehearsal. Surely the only reward we need as parents is to see our DC happy and enjoying the opportunities open to them - her mothers' day present should have been seeing him perform later in the week. Instead she got a Toby carvery today, a bunch a flowers and a bitter feeling because her son has lost out. OP YANBU.

grovel Sun 10-Mar-13 23:39:07

YANBU. At all.

yabu. and unprofessional talking about the child here where the parents might recognize themselves

McNewPants2013 Sun 10-Mar-13 23:39:45

so why wouldn't you want the op teaching your child?

simplesusan Sun 10-Mar-13 23:44:59

When you commit to something then you commit.

I think he should have made the choice at the audition stage. Either all rehearsals are attended or else don't audition.

My dd didn't audition for the school play when she was a similar age despite being asked to by her teacher, the reason was simple, her dance show rehearsals clashed for one day and one day only. The dance show had to be attended by the full cast-no exceptions -so she forfitted the school play.

manicinsomniac Sun 10-Mar-13 23:45:07

thisone I'm not stewing, I'm just too high on proplus to sleep a nightowl!

maddening and stillatheart I have already explained why we couldn't have the rehearsal on another day. Our hired set was collected by 2 of our team on Thursday night. Our staging and movable lights were delivered on Friday morning. We began putting it together on Friday after school. It took from 4pm till 1am on Friday night, 8am till 3am on Saturday/Sunday and we began our rehearsal at 9.30am this morning. When else exactly were we supposed to do it?! Pay for an extra week's set hire? Do the technical/dress without a set? Lose one week from a short term and perform last week, clashing with aforementioned internal exams and sports tournaments? Perform next week when several families will have left for holiday before the end of the run?
Agreed that mother's day is isn't the ideal date but sometimes you have to pick times that aren't ideal.

framey - eek, if it is the same one, I hope you enjoy it!

landrover - not everything we do at school is aimed at an adult's CV. What a bizarre thing to say. And we aren't spending anyone's money but our own on anything actually. Not that I don't think theatre is a valid way to spend a state school budget, I do. As important as new sports equipment or more computers etc anyway.

nevergoogle Sun 10-Mar-13 23:45:12

YABU.
yuk.

grovel Sun 10-Mar-13 23:48:06

How precious some Mums are!

blackeyedsusan Sun 10-Mar-13 23:48:21

yabu to haave the rehearsal on motheing sunday in the first place.

(minor point) it may not have been the mothers decision. depends which set of grandparents it was... I may have been thumped for not taking the children a to a family meal (not saying that this is the case, but don't just blame the mother... it was the parents... )

also as a child I would not have been able to take part in something like this as I would not have had the support of parents to be transported round out of school time. it is a shame for the child that he has unsupportive parents and school is not flexible.

JassyRadlett Sun 10-Mar-13 23:53:36

I'll out myself here as a former hothoused obnoxious theatre kid. I can see both sides if the argument, but have a couple if observations:

Firstly, different families have different traditions and different things they attach importance to. I get creeped out to receive an anniversary card from someone not my husband; my in-laws would be mortally offended if we didn't send them one. Some families attach huge emotional importance to Christmas, others could do without the fuss. One individual's perception of the relative importance of an event does not equal a universal truth.

Secondly, none of the amateur performances I've ever been involved in would have scheduled a rehearsal on Mothers Day. I get the professional values and I've been in shows like that, but you need to recognise that these are kids with families.

Thirdly, if bump-in seriously took 19 straight hours someone needs to take a look at your logistics plan to break down how prep can be done in more manageable chunks, or maybe scale back the ambition slightly.

Fourthly, it sounds like you need to work on the kids' voices if so many of them really need the radio mics. I don't know your theatre setup obviously - maybe the acoustics are crap and you'd need them anyway - but from what you've said there seems to be a disconnect between your production values and the abilities of your cast. And radio mics won't do them any favours long-term.

Upshot? YWBVU to be so inflexible with your scheduling in the first place and not recognise that this might be an issue, but YANBU to follow through as everyone else followed the rules and I bet there were some pissed off parents that you haven't heard about.

grovel Mon 11-Mar-13 00:05:56

Does anyone think a father would make a fuss about this on Father's Day? Like hell they would.

FakePlasticLobsters Mon 11-Mar-13 00:10:11

If this had been the boy's mother posting, to ask -

"AIBU to make my son miss a very important dress rehearsal of a school play he has been rehearsing for months, when the other 69 children also in the play are all going to be there, despite us knowing months ago that he was expected to be there or he would lose his place in the play, but I want him to stay at home so we can go out for dinner because it's Mother's Day"

- there would have been an avalanche of YABU's to that woman for spoiling all her sons hard work and being so entitled and selfish about a made up holiday.

grovel Mon 11-Mar-13 00:16:39

FakePlasticLobsters, turning an argument on its head is often right. Quite agree.

FloraFox Mon 11-Mar-13 00:32:20

YABU not only to this kid but to a good number of the families of the 69 kids who did go to the rehearsal. You might think the date is arbitrary and not particularly important but surely you can see that a huge section of the population thinks otherwise. If it were half a day or a few hours it might be different but I think it was unreasonable to set the rehearsal for Mothers' Day in the first place and also unreasonable to punish this boy.

You clearly don't think you were U so not sure why you've posted here.

CadleCrap Mon 11-Mar-13 02:53:06

YANBU.
When did MD become so important? I just remember making Mum a cup of tea and letting her stay in bed a bit longer. Now it seems to be expensive presents, meals out and as someone up thread said ME ME ME

Hallmark have marketed that well!

If I was the Mum, and Infound out that my DS wouldn't be in the play because of me I would be mortified and change plans.

MrsNPattz Mon 11-Mar-13 02:54:03

I think you were really harsh, family is far more important than a play. Good on him for getting his priorities right!

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 03:44:45

Yes, I'm sure the thirteen year old willingly (he knew the rules) lost his part in the play so he could have lunch with his mum and grandparents. It wasn't his parent's idea at all...

OP, still NBU. Lots of excellent points made eg the understudy, the reverse AIBU, the fact he wouldn't know what he was doing in the three story building, missed the H&S talk...

His parents were really selfish here. sad Glad to know your HT will back you up if when they kick up a fuss.

Good luck, make sure to tell us how it went!

differentnameforthis Mon 11-Mar-13 04:01:30

I don't know why you would plan a rehearsal on Mothers' day. It happens every year. It doesn't come as a surprise. Could you not have done it on Saturday? It's a bloody school play, not a major Broadway show!

And I think you are bloody unreasonable for kicking him out. For fuck sake, priorities! His parents decided he couldn't be there, so you punish him? Nice. Perhaps they recently lost a loved female relative & they needed to use mothers' day as a remembrance. Instead you care more about your SCHOOL play, than his family & their commitments. I find that really fucking sad!

Glad my kids don't go to your school. Our school actually realise how important family days are!

differentnameforthis Mon 11-Mar-13 04:03:11

He is 13 so i suppose it's borderline as to whether he had the choice or not

Course he didn't have a fucking choice. But you probably just shoved a huge wedge into his family dynamic. Well done.

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 04:11:27

It's been explained why it couldn't be done Saturday.

Parents had five months notice. OP stated in the very first post if there were extenuating circumstances the child would not be kicked out.

His family flouted the rules, it wouldn't be fair to the 69 other students, the understudy or the boy himself if he was reinstated. He could actually hurt himself from having missed this rehearsal. I thought the reverse AIBU was a very good example so I'm going to repost:

"AIBU to make my son miss a very important dress rehearsal of a school play he has been rehearsing for months, when the other 69 children also in the play are all going to be there, despite us knowing months ago that he was expected to be there or he would lose his place in the play, but I want him to stay at home so we can go out for dinner because it's Mother's Day"

- there would have been an avalanche of YABU's to that woman for spoiling all her sons hard work and being so entitled and selfish about a made up holiday.

From the Great brain of FakePlasticLobsters

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 04:15:32

Oh and it was his parents who will have him furious; and they drove the wedge, one could argue intentionally since there are so many hypothetically floating around. Maybe he said he knew he'd be kicked out and begged not to go? Maybe he has entitled parents who were stupid enough to think the rules didn't apply to them and are now fumbling with a very upset and angry child who is hurt at them... Not the teacher who five months ago had the parents sign.

DidEinsteinsMum Mon 11-Mar-13 04:39:23

bloody hell. just bloody hell.
OP - i don't think you are being unreasonable. your reasons are clear. And it is clear from a lot of posters that they have no idea of the sheer level of extra-curricular activities the child at private schools are strongly encouraged to partake in and the associated scheduling issues!

It has not thing to do with not being understanding or having empathy etc it is simple logistics. You physically can not be in two places at once and if you are expected to undertake sport and art etc etc activities it becomes very hard to fit everything in.

That said i think you are being unreasonable for posting this on a parenting forum on mothers day because the only way that was going to go was a flaming. sorry but feelings run very high here wrt mothers day/mothering sunday whole other debate but would seem is as equally important!

"differentnameforthis Mon 11-Mar-13 04:03:11
He is 13 so i suppose it's borderline as to whether he had the choice or not

Course he didn't have a fucking choice. But you probably just shoved a huge wedge into his family dynamic. Well done." Actually know what i would like to suggest that if is the case then the parents are being incredibly unreasonable and probably don't have much of a relationship with their son if they have no idea how important the play is to their son. Either that or they are not very supportive and the fact that this incident highlights it is meer co-incident and it would likely to be highlighted by some other event at some other time and the op should take no responsibility for this issue.

I am involved in a team. we have an event coming up in shortly. During the last few rehersals we have been missing a significant proportion of the team. It has proper fucked up the rehersals. the ones that have pissed me off mostly have been the 'oh i forgots' and the 'i have booked a holiday'. we have known about this for a YEAR! and I have managed to arrange around this. It spoils it for everyone else who puts the effort in and quite frankly whilst these individuals take the attitude it is fine as it is only for fun. It more then pisses me off because it is a commitment that the rest of us made and we all signed up for. Incidentally i am thinking of quitting the team as a direct result. there is no way that the child should be let back in sorry it is a life lesson, and one that i wish my teams mates had grasped.

differentnameforthis Mon 11-Mar-13 04:54:44

What kind of school production costs thousands, takes 5 months to prepare for and means it's ok to ask a child to choose between it and his mother?

^^ Exactly that!

If the play is so bloody important, they should all be given the day off lessons to do the dress rehearsal. Blimey, thank God I went to school at a time when school plays were rehearsed for in school time.

Just for clarification, when you sent out the forms for parents to sign, did you point out that the dress rehearsal was actually on Mothers Day?

shesparkles - no, we didn't

Completely your fault then. So you have punished him for your error of communication. Or perhaps you thought you would not get too many signing up if you told them this? You omitted essential info. Sounds to me like you have (and enjoyed doing so) made an example out of him.

BoneyBackJefferson Your examples are all way removed from what this thread is about. And RADA is hardly "just a school"

The Mothers' Day fuss on here reminds me of some of the threads about adult birthdays that I don't understand either. It's just not that big a deal Would you like to tell that to my father & three younger sisters? Their mother died when they were young & Mothers' Day is very important in their house. She didn't go big on her birthday, birthday were always about the children & she made a huge fuss of all of us (my dad has 7 children & if any of her 4 step children were at her home on/near their birthday, there would be a huge fuss) But on Mother's Day (again, she never usually worried about it from her point of view) she always let dad take over & make a huge fuss of her, because he wanted to. Now Mothers' day is always their day to take time to be together & share memories. And it can be this way in lots of families. Just because you don't see the importance, doesn't mean everyone else follow that line of thinking!

meaning that time is fought over and scheduling is a nightmare Ever get the feeling that you are doing too much? Perhaps just concentrate on their education?

DidEinsteinsMum Mon 11-Mar-13 05:21:02

"Ever get the feeling that you are doing too much? Perhaps just concentrate on their education?" This could be why rehersals are not during the school day!

And the op has clearly stated that the rehersal period was NOT 5 months. this was just the notice that the parents had of the dates for the rehersals.

fairylightsinthesnow Mon 11-Mar-13 05:38:35

I think if a thread gets to 12 pages it is inevitable that new posters will make comments that have already been addressed and they should realise this and add that caveat to their post. Still with you OP and also YANBU for posting in the first place. You seem to be handling the flaming you are getting from some fairly well - this is a topical forum. The OP was seeking opinions on a current situation - no point waiting two weeks and then doing it.

JessieMcJessie Mon 11-Mar-13 06:16:39

YADNBU. Mothers' day is a load of bollocks and families who get worked up about it are wet, maudlin and clearly dysfunctional if they need a fake national festival to remind them to cherish their relationships . The kid's mother is a selfish bitch who does not deserve anything in return for denying her son his chance to be in the play. Poor lad (but not because of you, OP).

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 06:28:38

JessieMcJessie, if bigamy were legal I'd ask you to marry me. grin

I don't have the guts to be as blunt as you, but that's exactly what I was thinking. His mum is selfish and the whole carry on is selfish. I got one unflattering self portrait, two careful, loving scribbles and woken up very early by squealing chubby dive bombs cuddles and my DH laughing and saying he loved me. MD was special to me because it was special to them (Lots of nursery preparation, no mention from us.)

I'd never spoil my child's school play to celebrate myself. Ugh.

HazleNutt Mon 11-Mar-13 06:42:35

What kind of school production means it's ok to ask a child to choose between it and his mother?

Something horrible will happen to the mother if the son goes to the rehearsal on MD?

HazleNutt Mon 11-Mar-13 06:47:23

Oh and as people agree that the 13-year old probably didn't have the final say, it was not him being asked to choose between the play and mother in the first place. It was the parents who decided that the lunch was more important that all his efforts and commitment.

BoneyBackJefferson Mon 11-Mar-13 06:55:38

differentnameforthis

"Your examples are all way removed from what this thread is about"

Like so many things posters have a different take on the subject, mine is that one person/family are seeing themselves as above the rules, as given in my examples.

"And RADA is hardly "just a school""

and the play is just a play and mothers day is just a day.

Its all about opinions.

TiredyCustards Mon 11-Mar-13 06:59:41

Oh Christ, drama types
Yabu

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 11-Mar-13 07:03:38

YABU.
We do large productions at our school and I understand that things fit around each other and can't be moved once scheduled.
So... Why not look at the calendar next year before scheduling everything (set, dress rehearsal) on Mother's Day weekend?
Also, this person had a main part? hmm Hope you have a good understudy OP.

bangwhizz Mon 11-Mar-13 07:08:37

You should be giving the boy some credit for telling the truth not just ringing up sick.

EssieW Mon 11-Mar-13 07:11:16

YANBU.

I'm involved in DofE with a school. We have to be very strict about attendance otherwise it descends into chaos. It's quite often parents who don't like it when we get tough. At 13, they need to have some responsibility too. Well done for sticking to It - sends the right message out to the rest and future years.

NewAtThisMalarky Mon 11-Mar-13 07:14:45

I've changed my mind from YABabitU to YANBU.

Yesterday I spent the morning alone. Picked up my son early afternoon to take him to his club, and I went to my (unimportant, gig not for 3 months) rehearsal, where there were three other mothers, all of which had chosen the rehearsal over mothers day.

When you think about the safety aspects and the complications that were being dealt with at the dress rehearsal - YANBU.

Groovee Mon 11-Mar-13 07:24:22

From your OP you were not being unreasonable. However your subsequent replies make me think of the dragon drama teacher with whom I will be having words with over her attitude this week at parents night.

CelticPromise Mon 11-Mar-13 07:24:50

differentname as I've already said, that's FINE if Mothers' Day is important to your family. But you also have to recognise that it is not important to every family, that the world will continue on, and you may have to miss some other events.

And I don't think it's the OP's responsibility to point out the date. Surely if MD is important to your family, you'd notice that a rehearsal fell on a March Sunday and check it yourself? Then you make your choice.

MummytoKatie Mon 11-Mar-13 07:35:50

For those who are seeing a big conspiracy to not tell the parents one of the rehearsals was MD I am imagining the conversation now...

"Hey Jocasta daaaaarling - I've just had a spiffing idea. Let's schedule the dress rehearsal for Mother's day and then when the main character doesn't turn up we can kick him out!"
"Oh Rupey daaaaarling - what jolly japes! Then we can spend aaaages in our precious rehearsal time training up the understudy and re blocking the chorus so it works without him!"
Cue big theatrical hug

And for those who said "why have the rehearsal on MD" - have you read the thread? Has to be the Sunday before the show as Saturday is spent building. Have to have show second to last week of term as week after half the school leaves on hols before the Sat night performance. Can't be the week before as classes with lots of things including exams. "AIBU to be annoyed that none of the Y9 students turned up to dress rehearsal when they all have exams tomorrow that will give their sets for GCSEs" comes to mind.....

FamiliesShareGerms Mon 11-Mar-13 07:41:09

YANBU. And I say that as a mum who spent most of yesterday shivering on the side of a rugby pitch while DS played in a rugby tournament that lasted most of the day. I don't think that Mothering Sunday is one of those days that can be held sacred and nothing else arranged that might clash with it, especially as it moves around every year.

If it's a day that is particularly important to a family for some reason then they have to accept that there are consequences of keeping that day free from external commitments. Same as if you are marking eg a wedding anniversary, anniversary of the death of a close family member, religious festivals and national holidays beyond those that get Bank Holidays associated with them, or another day that is certainly important to you and your family but isn't necessarily important to anyone else.

Ducklings45 Mon 11-Mar-13 07:42:08

YABVU, cannot believe the school kicked a boy out of the show who had been practising for months, it's dreadful and I hope his parents complain to the chair of governors and Ofsted about whoever made he decision, not on at all.

Welovegrapes Mon 11-Mar-13 07:51:00

YABU sad

Really surprised you timed it like this and threw him out.

My grandmother was obsessed with mother's day and lived 400 miles away. We HAD to see her that day every year or she was so disappointed. Maybe it's the same with them?

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 07:51:26

Every weekend is important to someone though. There are many different religions, many different hallmark holidays, thousands of individual anniversaries of the happy and not so happy kind.

Imagine if someone came into work and said that actually, they couldn't attend the important meeting because it was Valentine's day and they were taking their partner out for lunch.

And it's hypocrisy to say "it's only a play, doesn't matter" then on the other hand be bewailing the poor little innocent 13 year old who must be weeping at home, his life and confidence shattered. It's one or the other. Maybe the boy is a lazy git who only auditioned because his mates did and can't really be bothered with the whole thing because it's too much like effort.

YANBU. This self indulgent importance of mothers' day is ridiculous.

Welovegrapes Mon 11-Mar-13 07:53:13

PS I bet every mother of the other 69 kids thought 'cheers to you for your clever scheduling' when they spent yesterday without their kids hmm

Welovegrapes Mon 11-Mar-13 07:53:45

Difference is rapunzel, adults can take holiday on those days. Kids can't.

MrsWolowitz Mon 11-Mar-13 07:58:09

YABU.

Poor kid. sad

PS I bet every mother of the other 69 kids thought 'cheers to you for your clever scheduling' when they spent yesterday without their kids

^ This too. Seriously inconsiderate on your part.

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 08:01:32

Maybe the other 69 parents thought "Cheers school." But then they remembered that they were grown ups, and the last time they had a tantrum about people not dancing attendance on them on their "special day" they were 7, got a grip and moved on with their lives.

Maryz Mon 11-Mar-13 08:04:00

Maybe the other 69 mothers thought "I'm glad my child is doing something they enjoy, I appreciate the organisers giving up their time, and I'm not going to be precious".

Mothers' Day isn't about making children miserable hmm

MummytoKatie Mon 11-Mar-13 08:05:35

I suspect the Op wasn't enormously pleased that it was MD either. She probably would have preferred it to be the day after the last performance so she could spend the day lying in bed, eating chocolate bonbons and saying 'wasn't I marvellous" to her own children!

(Although it's more likely she'll spend the day after final performance dismantling the set.)

She's explained - at length- why it has to be that day. Maybe they shouldn't bother with a show the years that the relevant week of the calendar clashes with MD, Eid, Ramadan, Passover......

Branleuse Mon 11-Mar-13 08:08:42

yanbu.

Sirzy Mon 11-Mar-13 08:11:07

I do wonder if trying to do everything the OP listed on one day with no flexibility at all left in the time table is wise for such a large scale performance. Surely things like that should be built up over a few rehearsals leading to the big final run through to make it so it's less of a problem alround if a child can't make it for whatever reason?

HazleNutt Mon 11-Mar-13 08:12:34

Of course all families can have days where they have previous commitments or things to do they don't want to change. In such cases, they should not sign up for events where attendance is mandatory and they know they can't be there.

auntpetunia Mon 11-Mar-13 08:20:33

YANBU our local big professional theatre held auditions today for their summer kids show, the queue was round the building with Mums and kids who obviously took it all very seriously and didn't give a hoot about Mother's day.

But remember it wasnt down to the child not to be there, it was his parents, how do we know he didnt spend the day upset that he was not allowed to attend.

ShiftyFades Mon 11-Mar-13 08:42:33

YABU to kick him out with just 3 days to go, how crushing for him. I can't imagine the anguish he's going through, he will probably hate his parents for quite some time because of this and he will certainly never forget their decision lost him his place.

I do understand about the contract. Perhaps the LFE here is that YOU should highlight any clashes with dates that change (Mothering Sunday) in the future. They could have talked to you before signing up then.
My DH had to go into work yesterday, it was for something arranged in December and of course he had no idea that'd be Mothering Sunday. He was gutted when he realised.

You say you'd allow it for illness. Cod you treat this (mentally) as that type of situation, accept that (by not highlighting a commitment was on Mothering Sunday) you are also at fault. Learn the lesson, make sure you highlight it next year.

Let the poor lad take part.

Maryz Mon 11-Mar-13 08:44:55

I'm sure he was upset Dreams, but that's his parents' fault, not the op's.

I wonder how many people here saying the op was unreasonable are parents of teenagers.

Because if I told my teenagers that they couldn't do the things they had planned for yesterday - a league match and a school weekend away this year, but there is always something on Mothers' Day - they would be very upset.

Smithson6 Mon 11-Mar-13 08:51:11

so you think rather than a generic contract that gives all the rehearsal dates for the play five months in advance and states clearly that attendance is mandatory, you think that it is the OP's job to go through the calendar and point out any clashes with any festivals and holidays? presumably for all religions and cultures? You think this is what a teacher should spend their time doing in case some parents get their knickers in a twist about mothers day?

Bonkers.

HintofBream Mon 11-Mar-13 08:54:51

MrsWolowitz, they didn't 'spend their holiday without their kids' . Rehearsal finished at 5.30. Hardly close to bedtime for a 13 year old. A family meal, whether at home or in a restaurant, could easily have been arranged in the early evening.
Ridiculous also to imply, that after the initial flowers, chocs and hugs, kids will spend the rest of the day dancing continual attendance on their mum. Talk about smother-mothering, don't be so hysterical.

Netguru Mon 11-Mar-13 08:55:03

You miss the point.

The parents MAY be being unreasonable.

That does not make your/the school's behaviour reasonable. Scheduling a rehearsal on morher's day is insensitive and ridiculing families who take it seriously is even more so.

However, punishing the child by pushing him out is unreasonable. Doesn't matter how you try to twist it or justify it.

And your posts suggesting the family are not committed are frankly inappropriate. There will not be that many schools holding all day rehearsals this weekend with 70 participants. Your posts have made the boy and his family identifiable and you have run down their reputation on a public forum.

I hope for everyone's sake you are a helper not a teacher as your tale is as far away from child centric as it is possible to be.

Bugsylugs Mon 11-Mar-13 08:57:18

Definitely not the ops responsibility to highlight days that maybe important to some. It is my responsibility to not commit to things that are on an important day for me.

The boy concerned had NOT showed full commitment throughout other rehearsals. Maybe the boy actually wanted out? We have no idea. He may have wanted to be home and thought he was irreplaceable a lesson learnt.

It would be very unfair on the understudy to oust them now they put the commitment in.

I am sure the op would rather have been with her family.

I as a mother or GP would have been delighted to go to the show this week. They could still have all had dinner together last night great end to a special day.

For whoever said good on him for putting his family first hmm I will remember that next time I am schedule to work Christmas Day, Mothering Sunday etc as it obviously more important I put my family first. There was all evening and the morning he could put his mum first !

TomArchersSausage Mon 11-Mar-13 09:00:32

I agree Smithson. Signing up throws the ball in the parents/childrens court to put the commitment to the play in front of other stuff that might come along, even in 5 mths down the line (barring serious emergencies of course which are different).

If family gatherings are always going to have to take priority then probably best not to sign up for stuff in the first place.

GoodtoBetter Mon 11-Mar-13 09:00:35

Yanbu. The boy and his parents knew the rules and signed up to it. They knew the consequences and it's not about punishment, it's practicalities, he's missed rehearsal so he's not ready to perform. end of. Can't believe so many people think yabu.

fascicle Mon 11-Mar-13 09:01:40

Smithson6 Bonkers.

Too right. I'm gobsmacked that Mothers' Day has become a mandatory, all day family celebration without me noticing and that longheld, signed up for commitments, have become an optional extra.

Bramshott Mon 11-Mar-13 09:02:30

I don't think it comes down to a straight YABU/YANBU. It's a shame (and I'm sure you felt that when you said he couldn't be in the play) but it's hard to see how you could have done anything else.

You've explained the reasons for the DR being on this particular day, and in any case it couldn't have been changed at short notice. It's inconceivable that you could have let him be in the play without doing the dress rehearsal, so I struggle to think what else you could have done.

hackmum Mon 11-Mar-13 09:09:35

This is a weird one. I have mixed feelings about it. In the family's position, I would have said, certainly the child has to go to the rehearsal. It's been agreed months ago, the commitment has been made, and I can't imagine why a mother would insist on having her children with her all day anyway. A few years ago, DD had to go on a guides' trip to London on Mother's Day and I was quite happy with that - I got the day to myself, after all.

The harshness seems to be in the fact that the boy is being punished for the obstinacy of the parents. So he's spent months rehearsing this play and now he can't be in it because his parents are being idiots. It also seems to be a case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face": if the boy had a big part, and had spent months rehearsing it, who's going to play it instead?

Smithson6 Mon 11-Mar-13 09:11:33

fascicle when exactly DID it become this huge thing? This year in particular I have started to feel like I live in an alternative universe. Maybe its a generational thing (old) but my siblings, partner and I all find it all a bit creepy.

PuppyMonkey Mon 11-Mar-13 09:13:23

YABU - hope your understudy balls it up grin

HazleNutt Mon 11-Mar-13 09:15:53

As for the "wasn't his fault" - I would guess in most schools there would be consequences if this 13-year old was late every morning. Even if he was driven to school and therefore lateness would not be technically his fault. No?

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 09:21:20

puppymonkey, you're hoping that a blameless teenager messes something up and humiliates themselves just to teach OP a lesson about not being nice to a "blameless" teenager? Interesting logic.

I don't think mother's day is a huge thing to most people is it? I took DD to her activity on Sunday morning as usual, and all the mums sat in the café as usual. Most people had had a bunch of flowers, maybe chocolates, or a lie in. Then we were all getting on with our usual day. We're the parents of pre-schoolers though, does it turn into a massive extravaganza as the children get older? Should I be expecting diamonds and being carried round on a litter as the DCs fan me with palm tree fronds and hymns are sung in my name?

megandraper Mon 11-Mar-13 09:21:38

Yanbu. It would be unfair on the other children to let people start being cavalier with rehearsals.

Obviously you should be flexible with illness, special circumstances etc. but in those cases the parents should speak to you. I understand about not punishing the child for the parents' failings, but I don't see what choice you had int he matter.

However for the poster at a school with many Jewish pupils, who doesn't let boys play in sports teams if they can't play on Saturdays - I think that may be U. You might need to look at a way of accommodating regular religious attendance whilst also requiring commitment to the team, rather than excluding all observant members of one particular religion. I am sure there is a way of doing this.

TomArchersSausage Mon 11-Mar-13 09:26:14

I wonder too Smithson. Maybe about the same time Halloween became Very Important. I'm still baffled about that as wellconfused

Mothers Day is special to us within our family but only in a quiet low key way. And although we might do a family tea or dinner, a prior commitment to something would not be dumped because of it.

DontmindifIdo Mon 11-Mar-13 09:29:56

Well there's something else the OP hasn't really thought about, this is a private school, and private schools sell themselves on their reputations.

Other than the most top flight, famous schools, most private schools need good publicity. she better hope the parents really, really don't care about this play at all, because what she doesn't need is the parents going to the local paper. every private school round here makes a big fuss about their pastoral care, how much they put effort in with building up the DCs confidence, a sad faced 13 year old having been thrown out of the school play because he missed the rehearsal on mothers day (and they could easily drag up a "it's probably his granny's last mothers day and he felt it was important they spent it together") - and you've got a story for the local press that will counteract thousands of school advertising.

Smithson6 Mon 11-Mar-13 09:31:50

TomA ya- homemade card and cold tea in bed= sweet. Demands/expectations for presents/ obligatory family gatherings that trump kids prior commitments and interests= creepy and a bit bonkers.

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 09:31:51

Bedhopper - like what? If they can't be available to play in matches, they can't play in matches. Short of an entire reorganization of the entire national sporting schedule to accommodate them then I cant see a way around this.

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 09:38:45

Generally, I see entitled idiots in the Daily Mail doing sad face and whining about their school enforcing the rules and I think "Good for the school. Hope that DD goes to a school where they actually believe that rules and discipline matter" Maybe it's good publicity for parents who don't think the entire world revolves around them. 90% of the people who comment on those articles seem to also back the school.

And the parents may well find it backfires on them anyway. The daily mail might take the sadface picture, and team it with an article dripping with malice about the cost of the fees, and the cost of the parent's house and how they afford it and make total hate figures of them. I'd be very careful trying to get the papers to do anything, especially as the parents are likely to be well off and easy to set up as over entitled whiners complaining their diamond shoes are too tight.

TomArchersSausage Mon 11-Mar-13 09:39:18

Oh god those sad faced photo stories that papers do are my secret rofl. Where they have the wronged individual acting out some tableau usually with a relevant prop from the tale of woe or gazing mournfully in the direction of the source of angst.

Ilovexmastime Mon 11-Mar-13 09:45:34

OP YADNBU and I'm amazed by the number of posters who believe that one child's right to attend a mothers day lunch is more important than the other 69 children's.
This attitude is exactly why I gave up captaining my sports team. Trying to get through to some of the younger (teenaged) members of the team why it was important to commit was a nightmare.
This boy's family should have put the play first once he had committed to it. Illness would have been an excuse, mothers day is not, imo.

PuppyMonkey Mon 11-Mar-13 09:47:17

Rapunzel - yep a bit grin

It's only Mother's Day, it's only a play, it's only MN grin

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Mon 11-Mar-13 09:48:27

Yanbu.

peeriebear Mon 11-Mar-13 09:48:32

Another YANBU... If people would RTFT they would see that there is NO other day to have the dress rehearsal and the play is the same week of the same term EVERY YEAR because there is nowhere else to fit it in! Enough of the "you're mean and a horrid teacher". Jeez.

Iamsparklyknickers Mon 11-Mar-13 09:49:16

Bedhopper thats the crux of it though isn't it, on face value it's a perfectly reasonable assumption to think that group activites can be scheduled to suit everyone - dig a little deeper and it starts getting problematic.

In the case of Jewish kids joining a rugby team, lets just say you did manage to get the backing of all the other schools and clubs nationally to change the day of games do you change it to a Friday, meaning constantly changing times to avoid having matches finish after sundown during the winter, do you choose a weekday evening to avoid disruption to schooling but meaning tired players not at their best or a Sunday which kicks off the whole cycle again with it being the Christian faiths sabbath - who wins?

Fact is coordination of lots of people mean that there is always going to be someone who has a difficult choice to make, adjustments can be made sometimes, sometimes not. We all have to make choices and sometimes those choices get influenced by those around us. Yes it's sad when someone through no fault of their own misses out, but that doesn't justify completely changing everybody elses timetables/expectations.

In the OP's case that would mean organising extra training and rehersals for 60 odd people because of a family gathering for one person hours before their first performance. It just doesn't make sense - no-one is irreplaceable, and no-one should presume circumstances that haven't been explicitily stated - that could apply to the whole cast and crew, who knows what anybody has going on in their personal lives, all that really matters in this situation is if they agree to prioritise the same things for a short amount of time.

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 09:50:33

TomArcher - have you see this page?
Hear me wail

Why anyone would think that joining these ranks would be a good idea is beyond me.

TomArchersSausage Mon 11-Mar-13 09:52:38

That is brilliant thanks for the linkgrin

The chap trying to scrub off the green paint...<wipes eyes>grin

LandofTute Mon 11-Mar-13 10:34:30

Why have the DM given the Incredible Hulk guy a loo brush to clean himself with? As if he didn't look silly enough already! grin

LandofTute Mon 11-Mar-13 10:37:31

I think the school are in the right with this article. The family could just not use fabric softener at all and I find it hard to believe that a highly perfumed softener like that would be ideal for eczema.

FakePlasticLobsters Mon 11-Mar-13 10:37:59

Another one for you TomArchersSausage.

Mother's Day is important to me as well, DS is our third child but sadly we lost his brother to stillbirth and his sister to prematurity, so it has felt like a long time coming to be a Mum on Mother's day.

And this year was especially lovely as it was the first year he has been old enough to make a splodgy card at school and surprise me with it. But after the surprise and excitement of getting the card and watching DS share my chocolates with the dog we just got on with our day, which included me going to work later on. I can't imagine phoning in to say it was mother's day and so I wasn't coming in, while still expecting everyone else to go in and get on with it.

It's a lovely day, but it's not so important that in years to come we will expect to be the only family out of 70 that can be the exception to the rule if DS has a prior commitment to something he enjoys and wants to take part in. Or something that I would want to spoil months of hard work for, not just from him but from 69 other children and several teachers at the school.

His parents seem to be those people usually despised on MN, the entitled sort who feel rules are there for everyone except them, filled with confidence that they can flout them without consequence and then shocked to find they can't.

Maybe the other 69 families were annoyed about the timing, maybe not. Perhaps there were a lot of mother's postponing family meals until their child was back from the play, or going out on Saturday instead. Or doing nothing at all. But all of them still managed to let their children attend and will no doubt think it was all worth it next week when they are enjoying watching their children in the play.

megandraper Mon 11-Mar-13 10:43:20

Iamsparkly - yes, I see the problem. Are there no matches on any day other than Saturday? I was thinking that the Jewish kids could be allowed to be in the team and play on any non-Saturday matches (and perhaps some could be arranged) even though they are not available for Saturday matches. Perhaps this is unrealistic.

cantspel Mon 11-Mar-13 10:49:56

Youth football tends to either be saturday league or sunday league so any jewish child who cannot play on a saturday would just join a team that plays sunday league.

megandraper Mon 11-Mar-13 11:06:07

Yes, if there are no school football matches whatsoever on saturdays, and it would be difficult to arrange any with other schools, I can see that excluding observant Jewish boys is unavoidable. I understood the initial post on that to imply that the boys would be excluded because they could not be available for all matches (including the Saturday ones), and I thought that requirement could be waived - but I didn't appreciate that there were simply no matches on any other day but Saturday.

Vijac Mon 11-Mar-13 11:23:17

Yanbu. No child will ever get good at any hobby if they keep (/keep being made to) missing training or rehearsals for lunches. These types of hobby are the opportunity to be good at something and are practise for real life. You can't miss work/let other people down as an adult.

prettybird Mon 11-Mar-13 11:38:25

YANBU.

The "rules" were clear when the children signed up. Not only are they capable of reading them (said child is 13 and unless he has SN, should have understood the consequences), the parents are also capable of reading them - and should have done so before signing their consents. Sounds like they seem to think that there is one rule for them and another rule for the others.

If their ds was desperate to take part (but sounds like no, as he has missed rehearsals) but they knew that Mother's Day was going to be a problem, then they should have come to talk to the school, ideally before committing but definitely not just before the weekend.

I had to spend all yesterday at our local rugby club while ds played in an SRU S1 (=Y7) Rugby Festical in blizzards and hail (fortunately the club has good windows overlooking the pitch) grin. That's part of my "job" as a mother. I did get breakfast in bed though! smile

YANBU.

He and his parents knew the rules. Tough luck to the kid, really, because it's the parents fault. But it was right to follow through with the rules.

TomArchersSausage Mon 11-Mar-13 11:45:49

Thanks for the links! I had no idea others had tapped into thisgrin I'll enjoy reading those.

bangwhizz Mon 11-Mar-13 13:53:19

Poor boy . months rehearsing and the adults (which side unimportant) stuff it up for him.He is the victim in all this .stuck between a rock and a hard place

Jux Mon 11-Mar-13 14:50:18

Well, the other 69 kids and their families would probably feel pretty pissed off if they had made the effort to be there, not gone out to lunch etc, so that yheir child would be at the fehearsal, only to find that Little Johnny 70 gets away with it, wouldn't they?

I know they're still at school, and only 13, but if he were to miss the most important rehearsal and still do the show, then he learns that rules don't apply to him. As it is, he has learnt that they do, though maybe his parents haven't, but he knows for sure now that once he's an adult and makes his own decisions, that a commitment is a commitment. It's never too early to learn that. Next time perhaps he'sll remonstrate with his parents if they look like queering his pitch.

LightTheLampNotTheRat Mon 11-Mar-13 15:22:01

YANBU - not one bit. How ridiculous of the parents to say that their son couldn't be available because it's mother's day.

My DD is in a dance show every year. Right at the start, before rehearsals begin, parents get a rehearsal schedule and are asked to sign an agreement that their child will attend rehearsals etc. When I get the schedule, I sit down with the family calendar and put in all the dates. Then, when other things arise, they get scheduled around existing commitments such as rehearsals.

Doesn't everyone do this? I assumed it was the norm! I know mother's day is fixed in the calendar - but then I'd notice it there when I was writing down rehearsal dates. And if a family member were to say, 'shall we all go for lunch on mother's day?', I'd look at the calendar and say 'DD's busy with rehearsals til 5.30pm, but free after that' - or whatever.

I know we don't all do things the same way, but pre-existing commitments to something big like a part in a play surely have to take priority. (Unforeseen emergencies excepted, of course.) Isn't that an important thing to teach our kids?

mrsR1991 Mon 11-Mar-13 15:31:25

mm i don't think you were unreasonable if it had been scheduled for so long then his parents are in the wrong for not letting him attend. to me mother's day is just like any other day. my partner still works, i still get up with our daughter and feed and change her and make sure shes happy and do the housework etc it makes no difference to me. i am happy with a card and cuddles and to me the mums that need the celebratory meal or big family get together etc etc should just reschedule to a day that suits everyone. the world doesn't stop because it's mother's day.yes it's nice to be appreciated but can't people just be happy with a card or a littlle present? that way if anything extra did happen we would all appreciate it a lot more! the boy's mum should have celebrated mother's day the night before, she was being selfish. rant over x

Jux Mon 11-Mar-13 15:59:39

I don't actually understand why anyone needs to turn into a cossetted poodle on a particular day of the year just because some other women are turning into cossetted poodles on that particular day.

Especially when the day chosen has nothing to do with being a mum and is everything to do with spending rather a long time journeying to your centre of spiritual enlightenment and worshipping your God for quite a long time, and then journeying back home.

After which, you would still be expected to do the dinner..... grin

bangwhizz Mon 11-Mar-13 16:22:57

The same thing though...it isn't the boy's fault.

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 16:24:30

Thinking about it, I doubt the mother in question thinks mother's day itself is particularly important. I suspect it's more along the lines that the family think that anything they organize automatically trumps anything the school wants, because they are paying the school, therefore teachers = servants.

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 16:47:30

PuppyMonkey Mon 11-Mar-13 09:13:23
YABU - hope your understudy balls it up grin

You wish another child humiliates themselves?

How malicious of you.

OverAndAbove Mon 11-Mar-13 17:38:08

I think the school and its production are probably completely identifiable by now. When will the parents of the kicked-out boy come on and provide their opinion?!

BTW OP, YANBU

marcopront Mon 11-Mar-13 17:47:14

Can any of the people who have come up with reasons why this mothers' day was so important come up with a reason why the mother couldn't have called the school during the week and said "I know we said DS would be available for all rehearsals but we really want him to be with us for mothers' day. Is it possible for him to miss the rehearsal or to leave early?"

The parents showed no consideration to the school, to me that is the problem.

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 18:17:55

OverAndAbove I agree, I'm actually interested to see their justification of why they weren't selfish assholes who flouted the rules and in turn let their son suffer for their special day.
No doubt it will either be incoherent, frothing rage or a defensive soap opera story which makes no sense because knowing the rules from five months ago which explained in special circumstances your kid won't be booted they would have quietly explained a/the situation like a normal person who wasn't entitled enough to spoil their child's happiness.

I feel so sorry for this boy. sad His selfish family truly let him down. I will never be one of 'those' mothers!

Greensleeves Mon 11-Mar-13 18:30:26

yabu and a teeny bit pathetic

I think you have lost sight of what you are supposed to be doing it for tbh. You're not directing the RSC, you're a teacher! It's meant to be for the kids' benefit, remember?

No excuse for being so petty and nasty. The child has probably dodged a bullet by the sounds of it.

nkf Mon 11-Mar-13 18:39:20

Of course you are being unreasonable. You are forcing a poor child, a vulnerable adolescent to choose between a school and his mother. The woman who carried him inside her for nine long months. Do you have any idea how long the labour was? How she suffered? And here, her own precious son has to choose between her and a school play. And it's all your fault. What sort of example are you showing those 69 kids who can manage to turn up when they're supposed to? You are teaching them that their mothers, their one and only mothers, are disposable. Blah blah! Don't give it another thought.

Scrubber Mon 11-Mar-13 18:44:24

Not unreasonable at all. How can you be expected to put on a decent production and be fair on all the hard working kids if you let them pick and choose their rehearsals. It is a good lesson for the boy that life sometimes is tough. Parents weren't fair on him.

Mother's day a complete non event in our house though.

UniS Mon 11-Mar-13 18:47:16

YANBU - commitment needed was known well in advance. Lack of commitment was given only days in advance and for a non emergency reason.

Good chance for the understudy.

stealthsquiggle Mon 11-Mar-13 18:49:10

I am so tempted to interrogate gently question DS to find out if something like this happened at school yesterday (everything else fits - DS is not in the play, which I am kind of glad about as I don't think he could have taken the pace this year. Next year, hopefully). On the general principle I am entirely with the OP. The DC have it made abundantly clear to them that a commitment is exactly that - there are weekends when I would prefer to not be scheduling around DS's matches /choir/whatever, but that's the way it is.

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 18:53:31

Nkf - would you like a teeny tiny violin to go with that post? grin

nkf Mon 11-Mar-13 18:55:26

I would like an orchestra, please.

Ilovexmastime Mon 11-Mar-13 18:56:18

Nfk - smile

Yfronts Mon 11-Mar-13 19:03:08

If this was a palladium performance in front of the queen I'd understand your actions but it is just a school play at the end of the day.

BoneyBackJefferson Mon 11-Mar-13 19:04:38

Greensleeves
"I think you have lost sight of what you are supposed to be doing it for tbh."

69 children or one child? I think that the OP has it.

nfk

Do you use emotional blackmail often? you seem very good at it.

nkf Mon 11-Mar-13 19:06:53

It's when people think something is "just a..." that things never get better and standards become low. Just a school play... Just a mock exam...Just a job interview... If it isn't enormous, then it must be insignificant.

I hope the understudy rocks it.

SneakyNinja Mon 11-Mar-13 19:17:36

Nope, absolutely NBU in my opinion. Yes it is 'just' a school play but they still involve hard work and commitment from everyone involved. The boy and his parents were given more than enough notice.

Some families are very set on 'properly' celebrating everything which is fine, good for them but it is not up to you to accomodate this.

EvilTwins Mon 11-Mar-13 19:32:27

Given the type of school it is, I suppose YANBU

BUT...

In my school, this would be hideously unreasonable. I teach drama in a state comp. Our productions are fab (even if I say so myself) but I simply cannot rely on parents to be supportive, and I wouldn't dream of kicking a kid out of the show if they behaved like your cast member did. We did our show the week before half term, and we didn't have the full cast for a full run through until the tech/dress day (which was on a school day - thankfully out HT is really supportive and lets us have a day off timetable for it) We had two Sunday rehearsals, but various cast members couldn't come. Reasons included:
I have to work (6th Formers)
Can't get home (I end up doing lifts every year)
I'm at my dad's/mum's that weekend so can't get there

The Sunday before the show, we had the band (all pro musicians - friends of our amazing Music teacher) but not the lighting/sound operator (ex employee of school who now does that freelance) and on the dress rehearsal day, we had sound/lights but no band (they have day jobs)

On the last night of the show, we were missing one cast member - she'd fallen out with her Grandmother (legal guardian) and wasn't allowed to come.

And you know what? It was FINE. Every night - the kids had a ball, the show was slick and the audiences LOVED it. I cried, they all cheered. It makes my year, every year.

So, I suppose my point is, OP, chill out. And maybe stay in the private sector - nothing wrong with rules and standards, but flexibility and compassion have to come into it too.

MummytoKatie Mon 11-Mar-13 19:43:16

The boy hasn't had his H&S tour. Therefore it is illegal and unsafe for him to go on.

He hasn't been taught how to use the mikes, the changes made to the play or how to get his costume changes. Therefore for him to go on could easily lead to him embarrassing himself and being very upset.

The other 69 kids are expecting his character to be in the right place at the right time in the right costume. If he isn't it may throw one of them. Leading to one of them forgetting their lines and being very upset.

For those who think he should go on how exactly are you planning for these problems to be sorted?

EvilTwins Mon 11-Mar-13 19:46:39

Mummy - honestly? It's not that difficult... It would take about half an hour of the OP's time.

I get, however, that this is how productions are run in her school.

In mine, and plenty of others, it would be a no brainer.

fairylightsinthesnow Mon 11-Mar-13 19:56:35

but the point is, that this IS how it is in her school and this whole thing might have been averted had the parents done what any normal person would have done and contact the OP a week or so beforehand to discuss it. As for those who are saying its unfair to punish the child when it wasn't his choice, well, the OP can't put the parents in detention can she, or ban THEM from the play. The kids I teach do SO often think that somehow the rules don't apply to them or that they won't REALLY fail or get the punishment or whatever. Their driving tests are often the first thing they fail that they can't get turned round by getting mummy to write a sharp note. Its unfortunate for this boy but we are hearing constantly now that employers can't get young staff who appreciate the basic rules of turning up, on time, not hungover, appropriately dressed etc, ie, fulfilling their obligations that they have voluntarily signed up to. If we at schools hold them to account and they actually DO suffer in some way for not fulfilling an obligation then they will learn a valuable lesson (and for those who missed it upthread, this lad had missed previous rehearsals also).

MummytoKatie Mon 11-Mar-13 19:58:46

I have no drama experience beyond primary school,age but can you really cover everything that went on in an eight hour rehearsal in half an hour? And when will the half hour be? I'm guessing at lunchtime they'd be getting ready (performing to school in afternoon) so only during lesson time.

And much as the Op is probably tempted to get the school secretary to take Year 9 French first thing on a Monday morning that is a lot of children who are losing out so that one child can go out for lunch with granny.

EvilTwins Mon 11-Mar-13 20:02:52

I do understand that this is how the OP's school works, and so I don't think she's BU in this specific situation. However, I wouldn't dream of behaving like this in my own school- it would be cruel. We would simply find a way to make it work.

SneakyNinja Mon 11-Mar-13 20:11:17

I have lots of drama experience, and no even for a school play half an hour is not sufficient if you want to put on a half decent performance.
I would have been saying exactly the same thing at 13 years old too. I absolutely agree with fairylights on this one. This is not part of the curriculum, this was something that 70 children CHOSE to take part in so it needs to run off their OWN effort. This shit certainly wouldn't have gone down with me.

ATouchOfStuffing Mon 11-Mar-13 20:14:24

Perhaps if it falls on Mothers Day again you could write on the form to be signed by parents: PLEASE NOTE THAT THE FINAL DRESS REHEARSAL WILL BE ON MOTHERING SUNDAY. ANYONE UNABLE TO ATTEND THIS FULL DAY REHEARSAL WILL BE DROPPED FROM THE PLAY. PLEASE BEAR THIS IN MIND BEFORE SIGNING YOUR CHILD UP.

I do think you were a bit harsh, as others have said. You never know why this particular Mothers Day may have been important to them, and I personally think any day where Mum's are recognised and celebrated should be encouraged in our children.

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 20:15:47

For all the people saying he won't regret it and remember lunch with his mummy and grandparents always, just a play, yada, yada, yada... Were you ever cast as the lead in a school play? I was once in Year 5. No theatrics, a simple play. With a lot of encouragement over a few months, I tried out. was terrified.

The confidence I felt when simple, boring little me was picked to be the lead?! I honestly don't even remember what it was about, I messed up two lines and went the wrong way after my curtsey.

But I was so proud of myself and happy. I may not remember it perfectly but I'll never forget it. It was a cornerstone for me educationally too. I wasn't too shy to raise my hand when I knew an answer or ask for help when I didn't. I remember getting my very own Student of the Month (for my year level) because I'd learned to ask for help. I was one of the students who'd never gotten one before, even by Year 5. These life skills led me from being so shy I was afraid of other students and teachers to the point I had awful marks; to being a popular girl with lots of friends who got great marks and in higher education eventually led me to a wonderful career because of my incessant questions. (Or so I tell myself! grin)

All this because of a play whose name I can't remember. I only remember my costume and my mum crying. Tears of joy, I hope! grin This was actually the catalyst for the very happy life I have now. It was a small... Well, teeny step that led to bigger steps.

If this boy is anything like me, his parents just booted his confidence real hard. I would have been destroyed if my mum hadn't wanted me in the play. Her pride meant the world to me.

Probably outed myself even more but just trying to explain 'just a play' can add so much confidence to a child's education.

FWIW I hated drama when I was older and never participated. By choice. Sadly, these people took away their child's choose to celebrate themselves instead of their son What sort of mother DOES that?! So selfish!

Honestly this whole this has be so angry I feel my blood pressure rising.

MummytoKatie Mon 11-Mar-13 20:16:13

Evil You said your dress rehearsal day was a school day. What if a child in your play decided to skive that day and go to the shopping centre instead? Would you still let them be in?

Just interested really.

As I said I didn't do drama as a child / teenager. I did do a (fairly dangerous) sport where incredibly strict discipline was necessary to keep us safe. In my world if you are not being screamed at until you cry at least once a week then it is all very half hearted and wishy washy. grin

EvilTwins Mon 11-Mar-13 20:19:27

Mummy- please don't get the idea that I'm a soft touch. I'm as mad as the next drama teacher where it comes to productions, and insist on abs

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 20:19:58

What about celebrating the child choosing to do an extra curricular activity instead of watching telly or playing video games?

I feel celebrated by my DC every day. Not just for, well, existing but for the fact we're trying our hardest to teach them to respect us and how hard we work for them. Isn't respect celebration? (Genuine question, this topic does make me cross but I'd really like to know non- PA-smile)

I just can't ever seeing myself choosing celebrating me over celebrating my DC's hard work.

MammaMedusa Mon 11-Mar-13 20:22:45

I think YANBU because:
- they knew for months
- the parents made no effort to talk to you or compromise
- the other children all managed it and you have to be fair to all

I am sure you would have worked things differently if it was indeed granny's last mother's day and they spoke to you beforehand. They could have eaten lunch near the school and he would have only missed 90 minutes not the full eight hours, for example.

stealthsquiggle Mon 11-Mar-13 20:22:52

angry DS is useless. He has no idea if anything "interesting" happened at yesterday's rehearsal. Which I guess means that if it is the OP's school then it was discretely handled or DS just tunes out and misses all the gossip

EvilTwins Mon 11-Mar-13 20:26:15

Agh- hit send to soon. I'm not a soft touch- I insist on absolute discipline in rehearsals- if I didn't our shows wouldn't be anywhere near as good. In my school though (nothing like OP's school) I simply cannot rely on parental support. Several of the kids in this year's show didn't even have parents come to see it- including one of the leads.

I don't think there's anything wrong with putting a rehearsal on Mother's Day, FWIW, but I wouldn't have kicked a kid out for not turning up so close to the production. In answer to the question about a child skiving school for my dress rehearsal- it would depend on why. A child taking herself off shopping then yes, I would be livid, but a patent keeping them at home for something (it happens) - not their fault, really.

yanbu

if they had phoned and said 'sorry granny's on her death bed and it's last chance for son to say goodbye', then maybe. but he's missed previous rehearsals, they knew the dates from the start. not on.

he's / they've got to learn responsibility!

MummytoKatie Mon 11-Mar-13 20:44:19

Evil I hope you are nothing like my coaches. Since reading Mumsnet I have diagnosed most of them with some sort of personality disorder or other..... grin

YABU, intransigent and over dramatic.

I'd hate my child to go to your school, EvilTwins sounds much nicer!

mumoftwolilboys Mon 11-Mar-13 21:02:49

The school, i.e. op have already made up these very unreasonable rules, thereby making them sound reasonable to enforce it. Utter nonsense.

EvilTwins Mon 11-Mar-13 21:27:13

Mummy, nah, no personality disorder... I just get very involved in the show.

maddening Mon 11-Mar-13 21:29:58

why couldn't they have had the dress rehearsal today? Would have meant not having to do 8am-3am on the saturday and no clash with md?

still think it should have been worked around by the people organising it.

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 21:38:27

Maddening - because they had actual lessons to fit in, where they learn actual stuff?

Maryz Mon 11-Mar-13 21:39:46

I assume they couldn't have the dress rehearsal today because they are at school.

And I'd be very pissed off if I was paying huge fees for a school and all the people in the school play got to miss a day of class so the work had to be covered again.

What is wrong with teenagers (and we are talking teenagers here) committing themselves to activities and actually sticking to their commitments?

There are 70 in the cast. If every child decided to take a few days off randomly with no particular reason and no notice, how on earth can a play ever be completed.

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 21:39:51

What would the reactions have been if the dress rehearsal was on father's day I wonder.

MammaMedusa Mon 11-Mar-13 21:42:33

Well, mine would be the same. DH has missed out on Father's Day for the last four years due to a Scouting event.

SpecialAgentKat Mon 11-Mar-13 21:44:09

But you didn't make your child miss out?

Maryz Mon 11-Mar-13 21:46:48

My kids have normal days on Fathers' Day. And on Mothers' Day.

Having said that, we managed a family meal on Sunday with my mum, despite the fact that dh was coaching all morning, ds2 had a match, dd was away for the weekend and only got back at 5, and ds1 had the most horrendous hangover and only appeared from his pit bed at about 4.30.

That's what families do, isn't it. They adapt so that everyone in the family can stick to their commitments.

Anything else is ridiculous.

thebody Mon 11-Mar-13 21:54:22

Feel sorry for the 13 year old in this.

Do understand op but kinda glad my Dcs all attended good old state schools who definatly took the plays seriously but not thinking west end production.!

Essexgirlupnorth Mon 11-Mar-13 22:02:16

I sing in an amateur choir and we have had a rehearsal on Mother's Day before that we were all expected to attend including the mothers in the choir.

YANBU the dress rehearsal is very important and this child also let down the other children in the play by not turning up.

The parents aren't really teaching the child to show commitment to something. If they have know about it for months they should have arranged to do it on Saturday instead.

manicinsomniac Mon 11-Mar-13 22:50:25

Wow,cant believe this is still going. Thanks for all the input on both sides (but especially those who agreed with me of course! grin )

And for those who were upset about identifiability, don't worry, i changed sufficient details, I'm not crazy!

RapunzelAteMyHamster Mon 11-Mar-13 22:56:00

Come on then, has there been any furthers fall out from the parents? ;)

manicinsomniac Mon 11-Mar-13 22:59:39

Not yet!

Pilgit Mon 11-Mar-13 23:11:11

Haven't read the entire thread but having taken part in productions on this scale when at school not attending the dress rehearsal is incredibly rude to the rest of the cast. We don't know the individual circumstances but assuming nothing out of the ordinary this date was known about for5 months and it sends a bad message for the future that will meant that others see rehearsals as optional. You cannot run effective rehearsals if key cast are missing. For those saying she shouldn't punish the child for the parents actions - what else could she have done? They knew the consequences as these were made clear. Parents decisions have an effect on their child. I'm another that doesn't' see mothers day as 'all that' -just like valentines day, appreciation of our mothers should go on throughout the year.

CCC1 Mon 11-Mar-13 23:25:07

As the event organiser, it's your responsibility to check significant dates which might result in non-attendance. I certainly do. (I'm amazed you didn't have more absentees).

I very much doubt a parent signing an October consent form would check the date.

It's a school play - not Broadway. Family time is so important.

Since October my child has spent more days at school than at home with family. To say you can't fit it in on any other day falls a bit short as an excuse tbh (poor planning?) - especially given what us "poor" mums manage to fit in, in our "time". Don't begrudge us our day of thanks and don't make a child suffer as a result. He'll remember it - and you - for life.

grovel Mon 11-Mar-13 23:31:41

CCC1, I'm astonished an event organiser is so obsessed by her time. Wow! You must be magic.

DD is doing two shows soon(different groups). The dress rehearsal for one is the same day as the performance of the other. As soon as I realised, I spoke to the organiser of the dress rehearsal group, explained, and said if that missing the rehearsal was a problem, we'd pull out of that show, having already committed to the other one. Because I made the effort to discuss things, it's ok that dd misses the rehearsal, school is happy that she may not make it in one day depending on how tired she is, but that's only because I made the effort to talk to all the different groups involved.
If the parents in this case had made the effort to ring up, it might have been possible to sort something out. But because they didn't, and decide their own wants took priority, the poor boy misses out.

cjel Mon 11-Mar-13 23:56:45

Signifcance of mothers day is family life - Its what people have when they are not obsessed with hobbies. I too think that OP should have been responsible for pointing out Mothering Sunday in October, that family would not necessarily been able to organise their lives to suit OPs plans and YABVU

ZenNudist Tue 12-Mar-13 00:02:24

Yanbu

Surprised at so many people who seem to think that an entire school calendar be organised around MD. I think that there's a bit of a tendency towards hysteria typifying MD as this unmissable religious (wtf?) family event. Some posters have more or less got your 13yo's dm as mourning a stillbirth whilst hosting a once in a lifetime family event featuring an 80th birthday cum diamond wedding anniversary for the gps in the equation. OR the family are simply over entitled fuckwits who think rules don't apply to them.

I do think it's a bit harsh on the boy but a good lesson to him. You've got to have sanctions. How else do you make it matter? Otherwise what's to stop everyone treating rehearsals as optional? It sounds like if the family has treated the subject with any seriousness and actually spoke to the play organisers,you could have reached a compromise. I dont understand the mindset of these parents who aware of their child losing their place in the play still chose to make him attend some family meal instead.

OP good for you sticking up for yourself on this thread. Seems like you're doing sterling work professionally. I see you're not bleating about missing MD & your sodding weekend in favour of helping out on the play!

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 12-Mar-13 00:08:32

To be honest I'm surprised that volunteers organise anything for some people's precious darlings, given the abuse they get in return.

piprabbit Tue 12-Mar-13 00:30:11

I'm quite angry at the posters who have said that the child wasn't committed enough to the play. From what the OP has said, the family's decision to prioritise Mother's Day over the rehearsal came from the parents not the child. It sounds like they put their foot down, and I wouldn't expect a 13yo to defy his parents in that situation.

OP - I think you should have thought twice about scheduling a whole day activity on Mother's Day, but given 69 out of 70 children managed to turn up, YANBU to stick to the rules in the case of the one who didn't.

aldiwhore Tue 12-Mar-13 01:09:22

YABVU and utterly crap at organising such a big production... the first thing you do when arranging a rehearsal schedule is to check the damn calendar.

You have basically made many people choose between a rather important family day and an important rehearsal. With better planning, it would have been avoided.

YABVU to chuck the kid out of the production.

YAnotaverygoodproducer either.

NewAtThisMalarky Tue 12-Mar-13 06:49:51

I know people that have celebrated Christmas early or late because of circumstances. I'm sure people could do the same for mothers day. It's surely not such a big deal is it?

Aldiwhore, it sounds like you haven't read all the ops posts about why thd date was what it was and why the dress rehearsal is so important.

QuickLookBusy Tue 12-Mar-13 07:01:29

I think you are shooting yourselves in the foot- getting rid of someone with a major part in the production, in the week of the performances.

Seems a bit mad to me.

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Mar-13 07:53:17

You'd have to be seriously lacking something in the maternal stakes if you'd keep your child away from something so important to them because it's Mothers Day.

That is all.

MammaMedusa Tue 12-Mar-13 07:59:25

SpecialAgentKat - think your question was for me. Absolutely not, DH had his "Father's Day" celebrated on a different day so that our children could go to their Scouting Event. This has happened for the last four years. In fact, he now helps run it as it means he is with the kids that day, even if it means he is with another few hundred children too!

Wishiwasanheiress Tue 12-Mar-13 08:56:07

Blimey, lively thread!

On balance, reading everyone's posts, OP YANBU. Hope the play goes off ok. Break a leg kids.

INeverSaidThat Tue 12-Mar-13 09:06:14

YANBU.

At all.

It's a shame but I don't see there was an alternative.

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Mar-13 09:35:46

It all goes to show that just because you pay, it doesn't mean you value your child's education any more than those of us slumming it by sending our children to state schools.

There are absolutely situations where you'd cut a child some slack for having tossers for parents, or for having parents with problems. I'd leave that to the judgement of their teachers, who I imagine have some insight into their pupils' family lives.

fascicle Tue 12-Mar-13 10:09:46

aldiwhore YABVU and utterly crap at organising such a big production... the first thing you do when arranging a rehearsal schedule is to check the damn calendar.

You have basically made many people choose between a rather important family day and an important rehearsal. With better planning, it would have been avoided.

1. Do you know the OP? If not, given the limited information on this thread, then you are in no position to judge her oganisational skills for the play.

2. Why is it the OP's job to point out the (highly subjective) significance of particular dates? The kids and their parents have the dates - how they interpret their significance is up to them.

3. Mother's Day = 'a rather important family day'? Do me a favour. It doesn't take all day to celebrate.

cantspel Tue 12-Mar-13 10:35:02

It seems to me it is only on MN that people make sure a fuss about mothers day. In real life where real people are getting on with their lives no one makes such a big deal of it. Takes 2 minutes in the morning to give and/or receive a card and if you are lucky a few flowers and then you just get on with your day. The world does come to a standstill.

Op did the right thing and i hope the understudy shines in the role.

WaterfallsOver Tue 12-Mar-13 10:41:21

Yabu. What were you trying to pull off, Les Mis in the west end? Poor child, you must have a huge ego to have felt the need to eject him from your production, I'll look out for you in Hollywood grin

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 12-Mar-13 10:45:49

hmm Exactly that, waterfalls. The OP has a huge ego.

Makes me laugh actually. You get so many pushy parents who want their children to shine. The someone comes along who gives the children the opportunity to shine. And the self same parents don't allow their child who's been given this opportunity to attend a vital rehearsal because of some paltry "family occasion". And then they moan and complain when the instigator of the whole enterprise, the person who is organising the whole thing in her free time, who is giving the children the opportunity to be involved in something really big, actually sticks to the terms of the agreement they entered into.

Some things require total commitment. This was one of them.

prettybird Tue 12-Mar-13 10:48:40

I spent most of Mother's Day at a rugby ground as ds and his team played 4 games of rugby in driving hail and snow*. hmm

I could have railed against the SRU for arranging a festival of rugby for 12-13 year olds on Mother's Day. But I still got breakfast in bed and I still had the evening (and if my mum had still been around we would probably have gone to my parents' place for dinner but she died last year after a long illness). Life doesn't stop just 'cos it's Mother's Day. The OP explained the logistical reasons for the timing of the dress rehearsal and the fact that participants and their parents were made aware of this before signing up.

I am shockshock at those that cast aspertions on the organisational abilities of the OP and who then go on to wish ill on the production angry. So the efforts of the other 69 kids (and all the adult helpers) should be sacrificed? hmm

* ok, I might have spent most of the time in the nice warm clubhouse but I did pop out a couple of times to support ds grin

WilsonFrickett Tue 12-Mar-13 10:51:07

Completely agree cantspel I got a home-made card on DS return from school on Friday - he's only 7 and not very good at surprises, then a nap and an extra cup of tea on Sunday. I just don't get this mothering cult that we're all supposed to sign up for. Can't think of anything more icky than the family sitting round telling me how fab I am I make them do that 365 days a year anyway

higgle Tue 12-Mar-13 10:57:41

he is 13 now, only another few ears before he will hpefully have a part time job and have to miss out on all sorts on Saturdays and/or Sundays. Good training for him to have to face up to the realities of life - you can't have it all.

fascicle Tue 12-Mar-13 11:25:43

WaterfallsOver
Yabu. What were you trying to pull off, Les Mis in the west end? Poor child, you must have a huge ego to have felt the need to eject him from your production, I'll look out for you in Hollywood grin

This dreary argument has been used repeatedly on the thread ('It's not RADA' etc). The fact that it's not a West End production is irrelevant! The point is, like many things in life, it's a large scale collective effort which requires commitment from all those involved to do it justice.

As for the OP's 'huge ego' - what about the mother and her all day Mother's Day-fest?

Bogeyface Tue 12-Mar-13 11:30:10

what about the mother and her all day Mother's Day-fest?

Big assumption. Who says it was actually the mother? It could have been the father who was getting in his ear from his own mother who insisted that they make a big deal of it for her, so booked lunch for his wife as well.

Lots of assumptions being made here but it boils down to the fact that the child has been punished for something that is completely out of his control and that is wrong and unfair.

whattodoo Tue 12-Mar-13 11:34:50

I have mixed feelings

I feel sorry for the boy.

I feel sorry for the OP who has been working hard on a pretty thankless task.

But I think its a shame for all 70 families who committed 5 months ago and probably didn't realise the significance if the date of the dress rehearsals.

The school obviously encourages many out of hours/weekend activities, and maybe this family just decided for once that this sunday would be a family day.

OP, I presume you'll double check these details in future years before setting the date?and do you acknowledge the part you/the school played in this situation arising?

For what its worth, I reluctantly agree that the boy should continue to be excluded from the performance.

Maryz Tue 12-Mar-13 11:37:56

I feel sorry for everyone apart from the parents, who should have checked the schedule of rehearsals before arranging a family day out.

In our house we take everyone's activities into consideration - adult events don't trump teenager events, because we are a family and try to work out our lives so that we can all be happy.

If, however, the family lunch was on the calendar before the dates of rehearsals came out (if it was a family wedding/golden anniversary etc), then that comes first. In which case, it was up to the family to notice the clash of dates and either negotiate or not commit to the play.

fascicle Tue 12-Mar-13 12:14:04

Bogeyface
what about the mother and her all day Mother's Day-fest?

Big assumption. Who says it was actually the mother?

My comment was supposed to be a slightly tongue-in-cheek exaggeration.

Bogeyface
Lots of assumptions being made here but it boils down to the fact that the child has been punished for something that is completely out of his control and that is wrong and unfair.

You have made an assumption right there - that it was completely out of the boy's control. For all we know, he might have been included in the decision - he may have wanted to be with his family rather than at an all day dress rehearsal.

Bogeyface Tue 12-Mar-13 12:17:03

Yes I did make that assumption because I have known many 13 year old boys in my career as a mother and I can't think of one that would rather spend a day visiting rellies over a school activity that they are heavily involved in. However, I also know that it isnt always the mother that causes the trouble on such says but the grandmother/mil/sil/fil.

fascicle Tue 12-Mar-13 12:22:44

Bogeyface

...I can't think of one that would rather spend a day visiting rellies...

Nothing to say the boy was visiting rellies wink

Ilovexmastime Tue 12-Mar-13 13:03:26

I can't get over how horrible some of the posters on here are being to the OP. You do realise that she didn't set the dates herself don't you? Or have you not thread the thread properly? You do realise that she is a mother herself, who has given up her time, and presumably not for just this one day?
There is no need to make personal attacks on her.

Bogeyface Tue 12-Mar-13 13:09:13

the reason was that it was mother's day so they were going out for lunch and to see grandparents.

From the OP at the top of the thread. wink yourself!

FakePlasticLobsters Tue 12-Mar-13 14:00:44

Zen - "Some posters have more or less got your 13yo's dm as mourning a stillbirth..."

I think you might mean me, as it was me that said we had lost a child to stillbirth, but I wasn't suggesting this boy's mother had experienced one as well or that this was why she wanted him at home.

I was just explaining that MD is important and special to me, but not to the point that I would ever stop my DS from taking part in something he wanted to do and had perhaps worked towards for months just because it was MD and "my special day" or anything.

I think the family were wrong and selfish, and the OP was placed in a position where she had no option but to follow through with the penalty for missing the important rehearsal.

marcopront Tue 12-Mar-13 15:18:56

I asked this before and no one answered so I'm going to ask again.

Can anyone come up with a justification as to why someone from the boy's family couldn't have contacted school and explained he would miss the rehearsal in advance?

Maryz Tue 12-Mar-13 15:31:14

Don't be silly marco, that would be reasonable shock, something this poor teenager's parents obviously aren't.

Crinkle77 Tue 12-Mar-13 15:34:02

Surely if you kick him out you only have to find someone else to take over the part?

SneakyNinja Tue 12-Mar-13 15:35:33

That is my biggest issue marcopront The OP knew nothing about this until the Friday and that was from the boy himself (not even his parents) which just shows a huge lack of consideration and respect on their part. I honestly can not believe that anyone here is saying OP is BU!

I knwo you're at the end, but I got halfway through.

I'm religious, I go to church every single week.
I think Mothering Sunday is an important church festival.
I'm also a mother and live a long way away from my parents and if they came to visit, it would be a significant event.

However, I think YANBU because the parents made the commitment in October, and they knew how important this rehearsal was.
they should have arranged the Mothering Sunday lunch for another day, by telling their families how important this play was.
you make a commitment, you have to stick to it, no matter what else comes up that might be better.
no, the boy had not much choice in the matter, but he knew the rules.

aldiwhore Tue 12-Mar-13 16:01:25

IWBU with my comments yesterday in some ways, though I still stand by the argument that you were taking a risk booking the dress rehearsal on Mothering Sunday.

I STILL think YABVU to have kicked the boy out of the production, it was not his fault, and IF 69 out of 70 children attended you certainly could have worked around that without much disruption.

catsrus Tue 12-Mar-13 16:02:08

As the mother of DCs who were all in sports teams and dramatic productions at school- and who spent a lot of time in the car dropping them off and picking them up on lots of 'special' occasions - I say the OP is certainly not BU.

My DCs might never be in the Olympics or get an Oscar, but they did learn the importance of commitment and doing what you say you will do and not letting people down. At least one of mine has lost a place on a team / in a production because of not turning up to practice/rehearsal and it is a lesson learned.

This family had the dates - it's not rocket science to check them against anything else you might be doing to make sure the commitment can be kept.

jerrykyle Tue 12-Mar-13 17:05:28

YANBU. The lads parents are at fault, if they gave a shit about their sons life they would have at least contacted you to sort it out. They knew this would happen and thought they were too special to make an effort they just told their son to tell you at the latest time possible.
Im also guessing that there could be a lot of trouble if there is an accident if he missed the h&s tour.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 12-Mar-13 17:09:01

A question for those that are still saying the OP IBU.

I have organised teams that represent the schools during half term (they are organised and the date set by external organisers).

If someone doesn't show commitment by missing important dates should I keep them on the team or should I give the spot to another more committed pupil?

Is it also unreasonable to think that if you don't want to/can't go on a trip you should allow someone that wants to go on it?
Again I have had pupils that don't turn up on the morning of the trip and have to phone their parents to find out what is going on.

If you can't commit don't sign up.

(part rant, Sorry)

Fillyjonk75 Tue 12-Mar-13 17:19:30

I don't believe the OP actually, would someone really be kicked out of a main part in a show just before the performance because they had to miss one rehearsal? Who would know the lines or be able to do it? Also it's completely unfair on the child.

Fair enough if they missed a few early on and showed a general lack of committment.

My daughter did a dance competition the day before Mother's Day but the older ones had to do it on Mother's Day. There was no way in this world she would have done the competition if it was on Mother's Day as I was desearate for a lie in and a bloody rest.

And her dance school is holding the next show in half term and bank holiday weekend. Priceless, well planned there. Unsurprisingly less than half the class are doing the show.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Tue 12-Mar-13 17:27:55

Filly, the Op has an understudy who got the part, and the original boy had missed more than one rehearsal.

ICBINEG Tue 12-Mar-13 17:29:00

YANBU <in case the op is still counting>

MarinaIvy Tue 12-Mar-13 17:31:58

I'm with the YANBU camp: manic, you had me at "commitment" and "69 other children...". And your subsequent clarifying posts, which patently have gone unread by some, make me all the angrier with the parents. You gave them reasonable chances to understand the consequences, both when everybody was signing up months ago, and when you got the unreasonably late notice.

FWIW my idea of a perfect Mothers Day would be to know my DS is going to be doing something amazing in a few days' time, maybe even coming to watch the rehearsal, proud as all hell to see my kid up there -in a naice warm theatre and not freezing my butt off on the edge of a rugby pitch-

How did the understudy get on?

Bogeyface Tue 12-Mar-13 17:34:40

If someone doesn't show commitment by missing important dates should I keep them on the team or should I give the spot to another more committed pupil?

Who is to say that the pupil wasn't committed? It was his parents that said he could go, not him.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 12-Mar-13 17:36:53

Oh well fair enough if there was a general lack of committment.

I just wanted to illustrate though that there is some responsibility on the shoulders of people who run any groups to organise things when there isn't an obvious reason why people would not attend. Mother's Day isn't a massive one but school and bank holidays are usually to be avoided.

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Mar-13 17:58:23

^ my idea of a perfect Mothers Day would be to know my DS is going to be doing something amazing in a few days' time^

Innit tho, Marina

I spent last mothers day freezing my arse off watching ds race around a track. I'm not a martyr by any stretch of the imagination, but he's my son and I'm proud of what he does. That's what being a parent is all about, surely?

Fillyjonk75 Tue 12-Mar-13 18:03:56

Up to a point, but being a good parent is also about considering your own needs so you can stay in good mental and physical health and therefore be a better parent for it.

Pigsmummy Tue 12-Mar-13 18:04:06

YABU

starrystarrymole Tue 12-Mar-13 18:35:47

YADefNBU- break a leg tomorrow, hope it goes fantastically.
(Interesting to note that -sweeping generalisation ahead- the majority of the YABUs posted on Sunday.If its so bleedin important to spend quality family time Every Minute Of The Day....what are you doing on the internet? wink)

CAF275 Tue 12-Mar-13 18:39:38

Have been watching this one with interest. I have the distinct perception (just a perception - haven't compiled a spreadsheet) that there was a bit of a shift yesterday in the number of YANBU compared with YABU since Sunday - much more in the YANBU camp since yesterday morning. Just struck me a bit odd that more of those saying "MD is sacred - YABU" seemed to be spending MD........ on the AIBU board of MN. Or maybe I'm just being cynical grin

FWIW YADNBU. I was dancing mad as a child/teenager and I would have sulked for years if my parents had ever caused me to miss out on a show because "lunch with Granny" was deemed more important.

Sorry Fillyjonk75, but whilst I agree that you'll be better parent if you are in good mental and physical health, depriving your child of something this awesome just because it's MD really isn't going to achieve either - it's just plain selfish.

CAF275 Tue 12-Mar-13 18:41:37

LOL starrystarrymole - great minds! Started my comment about 20 mins ago but DD has an extremely annoying habit of wanting a "chat" every time I sit down to type anything!

EvilTwins Tue 12-Mar-13 18:55:55

Hope lots of legs are broken OP grin What's the show?

comingintomyown Tue 12-Mar-13 19:08:39

YANBU

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 12-Mar-13 19:18:13

Fillyjonk75

"Fair enough if they missed a few early on and showed a general lack of committment."

From the OP's posts he did.

Thumbwitch Tue 12-Mar-13 19:36:44

YANBU at all.
It's not like the boy just missed the dress rehearsal (not just any old rehearsal, the big one) - he'd also missed previous ones too.
It would have been unfair on all the others who did turn up to allow him to keep his place.
His parents are at fault for not prioritising their son's commitment to his activity, how selfish of them!

Imagine if this was a sporting fixture, and the boy was a key player - I bet people wouldn't be so keen to tell you you're being unreasonable if he'd missed that and let the whole team down, would they.

Thumbwitch Tue 12-Mar-13 19:38:22

for TomArchersSausage - a spoof, but a very entertaining one! grin
My only sadness is that it doesn't seem to have been updated in years.

bloodyschool Wed 13-Mar-13 09:23:30

It is an independent school?
I think the OP needs to keep in mind who pays her wages!!!!

Still18atheart Wed 13-Mar-13 09:55:38

Can I ask you, who told you that he wouldn't be able to make the rehearsal, did the boy or did the mum write a note?

If his mum had written a note woukd it have made a difference.

I know you will probs say no but my dm wrote a notes for every event at school and I think that part of this was to put of gravitas into the situation.

I think I've said what I wanted to say, but finding v. hard to explain.

Still18atheart Wed 13-Mar-13 09:57:49

Also, can I just say i feel for the poor lad. Bet in a million years wouldn't he think that missing one rehearsal would course such opposing views on Mumsnet

JenaiMorris Wed 13-Mar-13 11:18:00

hmm bloody

How about the parents of the other 70 children?

Your name says it all, really. I bet your a delightful customer.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Wed 13-Mar-13 11:25:04

Is this still going on?

Lord!

OP good luck with the production.

bloodyschool Wed 13-Mar-13 11:29:35

'How about the parents of the other 70 children?
yes.i bet they were less than impressed with scheduling the dress rehearsal for md too!!!

stealthsquiggle Wed 13-Mar-13 11:43:54

bloodyschool - my DC's school had an all day rehearsal on MD - a lot of the cast then went straight to choir practice and on to chapel so they were at school for 9 hours.

I spoke to several parents and not one complained. They said the DC were tired, and that they were really enjoying it, and that they would be "doing" MD the following weekend, but not one said, or even implied, that the rehearsal should not have been scheduled for MD.

exexpat Wed 13-Mar-13 11:44:25

My DCs are at fee paying schools and I would absolutely support a teacher who did the same as the OP. Private schools have much stricter rules on many things than state schools, which can be a nuisance sometimes, but higher standards are part of what parents are paying for.

And I would have no problem with rehearsals on mother's day given the various circumstances the OP has explained.

cjel Wed 13-Mar-13 12:08:33

wouldn't class taking decisions about how my children spend all their time as being higher standards. mental health consultant in childrens mental health once said to me that boarding schools are social services for the rich.

exexpat Wed 13-Mar-13 12:16:34

I don't think we are talking about a boarding school here, are we? In that case all the children would be there all weekend anyway.

exexpat Wed 13-Mar-13 12:23:31

And it's not about the school deciding how children spend all their time - taking part in the show was a voluntary thing. No one forced this boy to be involved, but he chose to take part in a major, high quality production involving a lot of time and effort. Families had to sign a commitment to be there on key dates, and this family, despite signing the agreement, decided to break the commitment for the most crucial rehearsal.

JenaiMorris Wed 13-Mar-13 12:53:46

Bastard teachers and their friends, giving up their free time to make a school play as good as it can be.

How DARE they?

angry

wink

Look, jel/bloody/whoever-you-are. If you don't want your children to get involved in activities that might take place on mothers day/fathers day/pancake day/insert-fairly-minor-annual-day-of-choice then feel free to stop them.

Check the dates of any rehearsals/fixtures/performances and if you don't like them, stop your children from signing up. They probably won't thank you for it, but hey ho. Those children with parents who do give a stuff will be grateful for the freed up place and for not having to be let down at the last minute by fairweather team mates.

fwiw ds goes to a comprehensive and they do this kind of thing all the time. They're fortunate to have a pretty supportive community of parents, which I fully appreciate isn't the case everywhere.

JenaiMorris Wed 13-Mar-13 12:59:49

this kind of thing = teachers going beyond the call of duty by giving up their weekends. Big productions, sports fixtures and so on.

The annual ski trip is at February half term - would that be unacceptable to you too bloody/cjel? A voluntary activity outside of school hours? Run on a voluntary basis by teachers? Who volunteer? Voluntarily? Or would this be another case of bloody teachers taking decisions about how your children spend all their time ? <boggles>

agree, jenai.

Fillyjonk75 Wed 13-Mar-13 13:57:24

Sorry Fillyjonk75, but whilst I agree that you'll be better parent if you are in good mental and physical health, depriving your child of something this awesome just because it's MD really isn't going to achieve either - it's just plain selfish.

I wasn't specifically talking about Mother's Day, but your previous post sounded suspiciously like I SACRIFICE EVERYTHING FOR MY CHILD and I'm always kind of hmm about parents who say things like that.

^"Fair enough if they missed a few early on and showed a general lack of committment."

From the OP's posts he did. ^

Ok but why repeat my post when I had already agreed with the OP?

And I have much more sympathy with teachers doing extra hours than people running a business and making extra money out of shows etc. I run a lot of events in my own voluntary time for the school though and we take great care not to have clashes so that fewer people could go to something. That's what I meant by event organisers taking responsibility. It's not rocket science.

cjel Wed 13-Mar-13 14:55:18

My comment wasn't about whether the teacher and volunteers are angels or not - if you want to compete in who volunteers the most I can hold my head up high and not just to do with school. My comment was about the fact that this was seen as part of the'higher standardsthat parents pay for' WTF, does that mean if you pay for something it is better and are you paying for these volunteers or not?

CAF275 Wed 13-Mar-13 17:36:57

your previous post sounded suspiciously like I SACRIFICE EVERYTHING FOR MY CHILD

I can assure you I don't and that's certainly not what I meant Fillyjonk75. I really just meant that depriving a child of something they've committed to and were (presumably) looking forward to for the sake of a family lunch is a shame for the poor kid. Yes it's nice to have a day where we can all show our DMs how much we appreciate them. But sacrificing this poor boy's place in show isn't going to be very conducive to him appreciating his DM now is it?

I don't sacrifice everything for my kids, but equally I wouldn't expect them to sacrifice something like this for me either. Cup of tea in bed and early dinner after the dress rehearsal would have done the job without the heartache.

On the other hand, maybe he just couldn't be arsed and used the MD lunch as an excuse to get out of it.

MarinaIvy Thu 14-Mar-13 22:56:09

FWIW, it's not my intention to 'sacrifice everything' for my DS, and if this were my situation, I would have wanted something resembling 'Make a Fuss of Marina Day', say, the Saturday or the previous weekend.

But that's not the point: keeping your word is paramount.

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