Overweight children(151 Posts)
My OH owns a small clothes shop that has lots of childrens stuff (schoolwear, brownie/cub, sports, fashion clothes etc.). He said recently he is rather irked at the number of parents who comment that they have to buy larger sizes (eg age 9-10 for a 7 year old). Sites like M&S are similarly strewn with such comments. The sizes are all in line with average sizes of children or slightly bigger, but of course he doesn't retort that the real problem is the child is overweight. He has also had at least one child needing a smaller size because they are very healthy (usually a very sporty child who is careful with what they eat). Its a lose lose.
So are we BU to think parents should just watch childrens health a little more rather than moan to shop staff just doing their job?
I totally agree, those damn greedy kids who eat so much their legs grow long! <tut>
My DS is really skinny. He's not tall either but I often find clothes for his age are too small depending on the shop.
I think your post is goady, good luck.
I do get bored with vilifying fat people - isn't it somone elses turn tonight?
Short people? I don't like 'em - shortist fuckers, buying kids clothes and shoes, avoiding VAT, bastards, depriving the economy of tax. Put 'em on racks I say! stretch 'em out and make 'em buy the right sized clothes for their age.
He gets annoyed because parents pass comment?
I think he might be in the wrong job.
My son is like a rake - bean pole, ribs sticking out, bones on show. But he is very tall for his age.....surely clothes ought to fit children, rather than children being criticised for not fitting your clothes. Yes, there are overweight children but IMO some makes have not kept up with larger, healthier, taller children. Other makes (Mackays) are useless UNLESS you have a large waist. Surely, if a shop stocks a range of makes they should make an effort to have a range of sizes for different shapes. After all, you can't sell someone something if it doesn't fit them.
YABU - many children are sizes above their age because of height or long-ness. DD is 6 but in age 8 clothes. She is below average weight for her ages but above average height. She looks silly I need own age clothes a the arms and legs are too short.
Buying above is not necessarily because of being overweight.
Oh, and also, I find cheaper clothes and those made abroad are usually smaller ( shorter and tighter) than those made in UK.
If they sized childrens clothes rather than aged them - no one would be commenting
Or perhaps its because children come in different shapes and sizes?
DS is 3 but still in 18-24 month clothes for no other reason than he is short and thin but perfectly in proportion.
My nephew is 4 and in age 6-7 clothes. He is VERY tall (off the centile charts) and yet only on the 75th centile for weight.
Needing clothes which don't translate exactly with your age doesn't mean a child is too fat or too thin necessarily. Just not following the exact lines that the 'proffesionals' say they should.
Does he sell shit clothes OP?
I ask as its places that sell shit overpriced tat that usually comes up small on my dc's
That may be the solution Hollyberrybush. Although items come from suppliers and are labelled as such.
We aren't really talking tall or short, that's different.
"Passing comment" was being diplomatic. Some are actually quite rude.
My daughter is 5, and age 5 clothes are too big on the waist and to short on the leg, shes slender and long legged, i cant help that.
Holly I'm short,5" but I live in Ireland where there is vat on children's clothes and shoes so you can like me
Your OH needs to adapt to the customers needs if he wants to stay in business. If 25% of his target audience is overweight then it makes logical sense to cater for them as well as those who are average.
Yabu. Every child is different.
However, I do have to say that when I was at school there was not one single overweight child in my class. There was one in the whole school and the poor thing was bullied badly. In my sons class there are at least 10 overweight kids. So I do think children are getting bigger, but running a kids clothing shop this should t make any difference to you.
I hate seeing parents letting their kids get fat BUT children are naturally different shapes and sizes. There will always be a large proportion of kids much taller, shorter, bulkier, skinnier than 'average', that's genetics.
I think the problem is in how clothing is labelled, why not just size with height and waist. There is just as much stigma buying clothing a size smaller. The healthy weight/ height range in any age group is too big for one size fits all.
My Ds never had any fat but is broad boned and had difficulty getting trousers to fit his waist for a while. Dd was opposite and even elasticated waist would sometimes fall off her. Both of them always on a similar centile for weight and height.
DD1 is a healthy weight on the BMI and centile charts.
Shes 4 and wears age 5-6 from Asda. 6-7 in some other stores.
I was tall for my age so was always in clothes a few years ahead of my age. I was however a food avoider and quite substantially underweight. So it's not just the chubsters that need to go up a size or two.
Oh man. I have a chubby baby... 14 months old, loves her food and we only offer her healthy things to eat. Threads like this make me want to cry....
I know everyones children are perfect and all terribly healthy my 2 teenagers - one is 6'2", and absolutely an anorexic looking 11 stone, he might chunk up over Christmas to 12 stone, and the other is 6'3" and a massive 17 stone. I have to buy from the
fat mans outsize retailers shop for him - because he plays sport, only got a 36 waist but I have to buy 42's to get enough material round his thighs otherwise the crotch would split every time he sat down and his nads would be dangling in school.
People are very different shapes and sizes. FWIW the pair of them can fridge raid for an olympic event and shovel food. Neither of them carry any fat. One is like a butchers pencil, the other is a muscle bound hulk.
Yabu and so is your OH
Wouldn't it be so much easier if childrens clothes were all sized by measurements. Its so much easier to find clothes that fit if they tell you the chest size, waist size (or range of for ajustable waists) and leg length then parents could select the items that fit their child. That would reduce the number of complaints. You are right though Op they abu to complain that the correct aged clothes don't fit their child.
If the children are overweight and the parents are complaining about small clothes then they are being utterly ridiculous and should be judged (they should be judged not the children)
However, your OH is being a dick to turn this into an every child who needs lager clothes is fat problem and needs a serious attitude adjustment or a new job.
Children don't come in average sizes. You are being odd..... DS 1 is 14, and has always been lithe but he plays rugby and is muscular so child 'sized' trousers are no use he wears adult jeans / trousers. He is not large by anyone's standards. DS2 is 3 and wears age 4-5 because he is tall.
Same as a size 12 in one shop will not fit every woman who is usually a size 12.
The complaints need forwarding to manufacturers so they size clothe by actual measurements and put us all out of our misery. Well done for the assumption the child MUST be overweight not to fit the average sized clothes.
I have to be slightly more serious here, working in a school - maybe it's are area, maybe there are demographics at play (I dont think so because our in take ranges from moderately wealthy and educated to sterotypical estate families, plus many ethnic differences) I digress, a 1,000+ children through 11=19.
There are perhaps 5 I would (unprofessionally) label as obese. I know one is diabetic, and one has PCOS, no idea if there are under laying syndromes or illness for the other three. So where all these fat children people keep talking about are hiding, it's not where I live.
DD1 is 3.2, she wears age 5-6, her coat (M&S) is 6-7.
There's not an ounce of fat on her. She's off the chart for height and around 75 for weight.
It's genetics, I'm a 5'11 beanpole and DP is 6'5 and built like a brick out house.
Do I worry that she'll be the height and have the same frame as Miranda Hart? Every bloody day!
Its the same when you shop for children as when you shop for adults - different sizes in every shop. I know for a fact that M&S kids clothes come up standard/slightly small yet their kids shoes are a size bigger usually.
Jojomamanbebe are enormous, my 4.5yr old dd is still wearing their 2-3 tshirts. Mini boden come up large too.
I don't see too many overweight kids in my dcs primary, maybe the parents your husband hears complaining have tall dc? My dn is a beanpole, he's 8 but has to wear 9-10yrs.
Carolra my DD was a seriously chunky baby. She breastfed then weaned on a healthy balanced diet. She was a late walker and now at just 2 yrs old she has suddenly shot up and is long and fairly lean with no more rolls on her legs. I stressed out about it, but so long as they're eating healthily the health visitors assured me it would all balance out and it has.
ya of course bu.
My dd is very slim but at 7yo I struggle to find any clothes in her age range to fit her, most of her clothes now are 9-10yo. She is tall but by no means excessively so and I think clothes are based on smaller than average rather than average.
There was a study recently which found that, based on postcode, so not ALL that accuurate maybe, children from middle class families are actually the fattest, NOT the "estate" kids people like to think.
Based on my highly unscientific experience of living on an estate, and now in a very mc area, I would say that is true.
Most kids on our estate were whippets, but many kids at ds's school are quite large.
My friend told me that her ds was classed as overweight by the school weight check thingy, and was spluttering about how ridiculous it was, but actually Ido think he is quite chubby. As with adults, we have become used to people being bigger, so perception of "overweight" has changed somewhat.
I do think childrens clothes should be sized not aged though.
Ds is still in trousers that are 2 years younger than he is, which make me think he is a shortarse.
Because he is
I think kids clothes should be sized, as they are on the continent, you buy as per height in cm.
I don't think people have really understood. We know full well children come in different shapes and sizes and sometimes it can't be helped a child is big or small for their age, but we are fooling ourselves saying there is no problem with overeating and lack of exercise in children, and excessive weight can be lost. Its not like saying people fed up with benefits should get up and get a job.
Sizing by measurements rather than age like for adults is the most sensible thing, as a few have stated already.
Mmmm, I'm sure I've read this post before op, did you post the same thing a year or so ago? Under a different name?
Very odd and Goading IMO.
Hang on, since when was underweight healthy?
Let's all have anorexic kids shall we, just to please you?
Good grief, I don't like the obesity epidemic either, but let's not assume that under weight is a good thing?
For the record, sporty kids often have more defined muscle and actually require larger sizes.
Take a moment to consider the anorexia crisis too OP.
Bless your heart MisForMumNotMaid thank you. We try not to worry, and she's cute as a button, but it's hard not to compare her to her skinny friends. Then these threads pop up every now and again about fat kids and my heart breaks for her. I just trust that as long as we offer her healthy food, it will work out for her longer term!!
All the clothes I have bought for my son in the past few years atleast are by age but have the related measurements for height and sometimes chest.
YABU because what correlated the buying larger sizes to children who are overweight and the buying of smaller sizes with healthy.
Yet you also acknowledge that sizes are for 'average'.... well there is a whole LOT of normal that is not underweight of overweight.
My son, is and always has been on the 99th centile for height and weight. He swims 2-3 times a week, plays sport and has a six-pack. His diet is good and yet get this he wears an Age 10-11 in most shops at the age of 8... His BMI (done by his comm paed) was normal a month ago
His need for bigger clothes isnt caused by over-eating but some rogue gene that is going to make him taller than his mother at 10yrs.
He's not alone, children are getting taller and bigger because our generation of children are not only better fed but have come from parents who were also, on the whole, better fed than than the generation before. The 'average' measurements you speak will be always behind the children who are wearing the clothes.
Being obese is a medical condition, diagnosed by health professionals - not some guy selling school trousers and making a judgement.
Overweight is something people can work on in most circumstances Op, you are right. People can also work on being small minded and leaping to conclusions but they don't always do so.
"Sites like M&S are similarly strewn with such comments."
And sites like MN are strewn with comments from parents of tall, slim children who struggle to find trousers from M & S because they only cater for children that aren't slim. I have given up trying to buy school trousers for my 12 year old daughter because they are too short and too wide. So I buy an adult size 6 black trousers from New Look instead.
When I was wee (1970s - 1980s) children's clothes tended to be sold by height and not age.
Not that it would make much difference for someone who was larger or smaller than average around the waist or thighs.
Anyway, we're all different shapes and sizes. Not everyone can be average so some people will have to buy their children clothes that are large for their "age" and some will have to buy smaller than their "age". Obviously.
Your op says that your dp is getting exasperated at the number of people who are complaining that the sizes are too small, and in that yanbu. The sizes are the sizes. Go up if it's too tight, go down if it's too loose.
My son is over weight, my daughter is not, both eat the same, home cooked not processed foods both do regular sports activitys. Your oh attitude is why I hate going shopping for clothes, he sounds like a judgemental arsehole, who is in the wrong job, he should be grateful they are spending money there regardless of their size, sincerely hope they start shopping elsewhere. And why do you think that a child that is in a smaller size is automaticly healthy!
It's the variety of sizes within a "size" that bugs me. So yes, I do sometimes grumble when 2-3 size clothes are too small for my baby who's otherwise in 12-18 or 18-24 months.
Oh, and my perception buying school trousers is that the sizes are massive, but that's because ds is a 25 percentile child - it's just my perception, not the reality.
YABU. My ds is in age 10-11 clothes aged 7. He is in the 97 th centile for height and always has been. Clothes are made for average sized children so clearly there will be some above or below that.
YABU - utterly. My beautiful 13 year old daughter is 6'2" with size 9 feet. Age 12-13 clothes? You're having a laugh! Luckily she's proud of her size and we have a laugh counting how many times we hear "aren't you tall?" when we go out. I rely on non-bigoted adults to reinforce this. I would boycott a shop which reinforced such prejudice. Your husband should change his career - maybe a job as a Tory politician would suit him better, then he can be as judgemental as he likes, and not care who he offends.
Kids clothes seem to be made on the big side these days and then you have the generous fit ranges they do on top.
No where caters well for slim children. The most you will find is trousers where you can adjust the waist by pulling in the elastic. Great as it stops the trousers falling down but you still end up with a child who looks like he is wearing a sack because of all the spare material just gathered around the arse area.
Exactly Cantspel. When DD was at primary school her trousers looked like rompers on her. Going down a waist size would have meant wearing trousers way too short for her. I find M & S and Asda the worst shops for school clothes for slim children.
I have a nightmare buying clothes for DD. she is 11 and big for her age, tall and solid. She plays football up to 4 times a week and eats the same as her brothers who are skinny, and probably less. She was born with lovely fleshy hips that used to stick out of the top of her nappy, and she still has! Yes she could be a bit slimmer, but where would you suggest I fit more excercise in?! And your OH doesn't need to make her feel fat, her peers at school do that
I've clearly read another op, because I can't see anywhere where the op has said her dp is mocking larger or smaller, or shorter or taller than average children.
The op said that the parents were criticising him for having incorrectly labelled clothing. Ie, that the parents are insisting that their children are average and the clothes sizes are wrong.
Perhaps DH should try re-labelling, such as "normal for 7" and "7 year old porker". And lets not forget "7 but big for her age".
Aren't you all lucky to have nice thin children! And before you all say I'm touchy, I am. But she's healthy and fit and a fabulous goalkeeper!!
Well that's great 3monkeys and your dd sounds fab, but surely you see it would be as crazy for shops to base their size 11 on your dd than it would be to base their size 6 on my ds?
An average size isn't a judgement, nor is it a target. It's just a size.
Sleepy - did you read the thread title?
Yes I did. It bears only a cursory relationship to the actual op. Which was a whole two paragraphs of extra reading for people to do
My DD's taller than me.
Get over it.
One size is never going to fit all is it ? It is daft to think so imo.
Oh and please don't assume that it is always down to diet either. My ds is 10 and in age 12 clothes. Yes he is overweight, but thats because of medication he is on.
Even if a 7 year old is so tall that they need clothing labelled for an 11 year old they still wouldn't fit as they would also be a lot wider and so too baggy?
Maybe we should scrap sizing by age and go back to the good old days of C&A where you bought by height.
You're absolutely right sleepyhead. But to go into a shop and not be able to buy her anything that fits is miserable. I don't care if she gets an age 14 but in Next, I can't get the clothes anywhere near her. There should be clothes to fit slim kids and clothes to fit big kids, then we'd all get a choice
"There should be clothes to fit slim kids and clothes to fit big kids, then we'd all get a choice"
Hear, hear. M & S do trousers in three lengths for adults. Why can't they do the same for children? And why can't they do sizes rather than ages?
M and S do skinny for, normal fit and a bigger fit for kids trousers in some of them but not all. So do next.
I've had to read your posts twice op because I wasn't sure where you are coming from.
First I thought you were being mean, then just having a moan...now I'm thinking you are having a pointless whine.
Your post is peppered with a few spikey bits too...so I'm I'm afraid!
DD isn't allowed to wear skinny style trousers to school. More's the pity because they were the only style that fitted her properly without huge gathers at the waist. Normal fit are way too big. I got Next slim fit for DD as they were the best fit available at the time, but still had to adjust the elastic on the waist, resulting in those unsightly gathers.
Now that she is a bit bigger an adult size 6 is a perfect fit.
What I don't understand is why clothes manufacturers think that 12 and 13 year olds are much wider than adult sizes 6 and 8.
Sirzy m&S skinny fit school trousers still just used elastic to take in the waist with a slightly slimmer leg so you still end up with the bunches of extra material around the bum. And for this privilege of looking like a sack of spuds you pay more than normal trousers.
M&S standard size school trousers for a 15 year old are a 30 inch waist.
My son has a 26 inch waist so that is a lot of extra material to hang around his bum
Don't get me on blazer sizing. Why do they only go up in chest size.
Thankfully Ds 6th form now. But to got a blazer to fit a 6ft teenager you have to buy 40 inch chest. Ds is only 38 inch chest. Its difficult enough to fine a long 38 suit for a man.
Really??? My 16month old is in clothes aged 2-3 yet the health visitor is concerned he's underweight... My 4 year old is in 5-6, and my other children are all 2 sizes above their age, they're so slim their bones stick out. They eat healthy and are all involved in competitive sports... YABU and tbh your clothes are probably sized wrong if you have that many people coming in complaining about sizes!!!
I find comments left by other parents on a website like M&S really helpful.
My dd is 8. She's fairly tall. Not overweight but has a really womanly bum, like a juicy pair. I find I have to order a size up for height and bum shape. I wouldn't complain about it though. It's just shape isn't it? So when someone leaves a comment like "size comes up small so order a size up" it's helpful to me to order a size 10. Even this is wildly experimental though as the sizes differ so much.
I know a lot of kids. I honestly only know one who I would consider obsese. I don't know where all the FAT children are either?
Actually, in some cases it is like saying 'people on benefits should get a job'. Perhaps you would nip into your local hospital, have a chat with the kids in the allergy units, the asthma units and the ones that have to be careful not to pick up anything due to their immune systems being fucked one way or another. The steriods can increase weight significantly and yep, guess what, those kids still play sport, go to dance lessons, whatever. Try thinking before posting.
Totally unreasonable. If you and your husband are so irked about this then you should consider changing the nature of your business to goods not involving clothing and not children. There is no such thing as 'normal' or 'average' when it comes to people, especially growing children. You are being terribly judgemental too at parents.
Evidence - I am one of three. I was a 'larger' child, though ate the same healthy balanced diet and was just as active as my two bothers who were leaner than me. Was this my parent's fault that I was overweight?
Got to say, part and parcel of working in retail is being directly involved with customers and learning from their comments to benefit your business. If this 'irking' anger at customers continues on this you'll bet they could begin to sense it.
I do actually know where all the fat children are. Last summer when my dcs school did their concert, all the year 6 children came on stage to do their bit. They were almost without exception overweight. I can remember being quite shocked.
In reception the children are small and skinny, but by year 6 they are overweight.
My kids don't fit any sizes. ds wears size 10-11 trousers and size 13-14 tops to get the length in body and arms. He is skinny.
dd1 is curvy. She is not overweight, but has a bum. I cannot get good trousers for her, they are all too skinny, but when I can find them she looks fab in slim fit.
dd2 is skinny and long legged. But even so all girls trousers are too hipster shaped so unless I choose carefully she shows a builders bum (all be it a skinny one )when she bends over (why are girls trousers made as hipsters - she is 5!)
I got so fed up when mine were younger that they made children's clothes so wide. Everything fell off and by the time trousers fitted round the waist, they were up to the knee. DD1 at 11 was in an age 6-7 skirt just to get it to fit round the waist - with the result the school complained it was too short.
My children are not ridiculously thin. They are more padded than I was as a child, for definite. So why not make some clothes for normally sized children?
Now they are teens DD2, 13, is in a size 6 and DD1, 17 is in an 8 and clothes finally fit at last. OP, I think YANBU.
C&A sold clothes by height because they were from Europe. In Europe they sell children's clothes by height not age.
But in Holland the clothes for a certain height are always slimmer and longer in the leg and arms than same height clothes in UK. The Dutch tend to be longer legged and longer arms for same height than us
My three year old is a stocky, tall boy with chunky legs and broad shoulders. Threads like this are horrible and make me so worried for him.
Yabvu my dd1 is 9 very tall 5ft and slightly chubby those who judge are idiots as there may be reasons ours she's just been diagnosed with an eating disorder !! Incredibly worrying and heartbreaking (she's eating in secret and not food ahead gets at home)
Dd2 is tall skinny and all legs shes8 (thanks to mmeasurements for a flower girl dress) has the body size if 4year old!!
Every child is different and have reasons why (ok some are clearly over fed on crap) but not all, clothes sizes can vary widely in shops
I don't know if the posts on here are representative of most parents, but it looks like there aren't many average sized children, so why not make clothes for slimmer children and wider clothes and don't bother with the average size at all.
Sorry to hear about your DD threesypeesy. I hope you can resolve it soon.
musicposy My 12 year old DD sounds like yours and an adult size 6 is a godsend. I used to dread trouser/jeans buying for her, but now she has so much choice.
Interestingly, last year I asked our GP about DD's weight, saying that I thought she was underweight and clothes buying was really difficult because all age 12 clothes were too big. She had a good look and told me that DD was fine and that most children are too chubby. So, it sounds like your OH is right.
I would be interested to know if the larger sizes required are just width or whether the clothes are too short as well. DD is 12 and just over 5' tall and is one of the smallest in her class. OH's family who are all rather vertically challenged can't believe how tall she is!
As a business owner he should keep his opinions to himself and respond by stocking more larger sizes. Although the sizes in the clothes are put in by the manufacturers so it isn't his fault that parents of larger children feel that the clothes are sized incorrectly.
The sizes are all in line with average sizes of children so obviously there are going to be a large number of children - like about half - who will need a smaller or bigger size than the average.
We don't need more educating about healthy eating, we need more education in maths.
The sizes are all in line with average sizes of children
But how many children are actually average size? Shouldn't they use the median rather than the average for sizing?
If you look at my profile at photos at the bottom my Ds is not chubby his legs were positively skinny. He was also tall for his age but at the time we couldn't get trousers for his height for his waist. They were all too small hence why his shorts are so baggy. It is possible to be too big without being overweight.
Each generation is taller than it's parents....it's just clothing manufacturers haven't caught up. Dd is 6, she takes age 10 trousers and age 11 dresses. My concern is that it is hard to find clothes for her, as the ones in this size are not always appropriate for her age group.
I'm 5 8, dh is 6 2, therefore dd is going to be tall. She was on the 97th percentile when she was born. I don't think they ever change the size of children's clothes to accommodate the changing anthropometrics. I agree with the the poster who said crap shops sell smallish clothes.....I used to be a children's wear designer, it's cheaper to make clothes a little bit smaller, even by .5 of a cm
Steppe mum, Sainsbury's trousers fit on the waist. Dd has some on today with no sign of a builders bum. Next are the worse offenders in this area ime
Yabu if I bought my child actual age dresses shed be walking around with her butt hanging out. She's not abnormally tall either.
On the same note waist wise she requires smaller sizes so lives with leggins under skirts. Does that mean I starve my child??
Mean (most common) take a sample, (say height of 10 kids), add all heights up, divide by 10, you have your mean (average) height. It is entirely possible for not 1 of those children to be that height, so not 1 child will be "average", they will all be above or below.
Median. The middle number. Take heights of 10 kids, arrange them in ascending/descending numerical order, the middle number is the median (still an average). With a sample of 10, there is no middle number, so you add the middle two together and divide by two. Still no 1 child is ON the average, they are all above or below. (if the middle two happen to be the same height, there will be two average height)
Mode. This is (I think) the least used, and yet most practical average for things like uniform sizing. The mode looks at the most frequent occurrence in a set. So, if in my sample of 10 children I had 5 who were 100cm tall, the mode would be 100cm (regardless of the 2ft 5yo and the 6ft 5yo). This is the only "average" that guarantees to be the most reflective of the "norm", and yet it can return multiple values and also no values (2 kids at 98cm and all kids different heights respectively).
So, rambly maths lesson over, perhaps op, your husband could have a sign in his shop explaining about averages, and you, he and everyone else could learn that by very nature of the mathematics, 50% of the population WILL BE ABOVE average, and 50% WILL BE BELOW average.
D'oh! I meant mode not median. I agree that it is the most sensoble way forward.
My son is nearly 7 and admittedly not that tall so still age 6 clothes fine.
But very sporty - he does football (twice a week), self defence, multisport, and swimming, and plays football in playground every break and whenever he can at home. He eats loads, mainly healthy but also snacks as well (don't buy crisps or sweets, and chocolate is a weekend treat, so snacks mainly cheerios/yoghurts/fruit/crackers.) He regularly has a 2nd dinner of toast and nutella a bedtime.
I think he looks "normal" for a 6 year old. But we struggle to buy him clothes, have to buy "skinny fit". Normal fit clothes for 6 year olds far to wide, even when I tighten elastic waists.
But whats really interesting is when he was weighed in reception, he was on 60% centile for BMI - meaning that he is not infact skinny, he is slightly above average for BMI!!!!!
There's evidence that the majority of parents with overweight children don't recognise that their children are fat. Even those with obese children often have no idea just how unhealthy their child's weight is. We've normalised overweight in children. here
My SIL's used to complain endlessly about clothes being too small for their obese children. It was always the fault of the manufacturers.
Ahem....can I just come on here....as an ex children's wear designer..in my experience neither buyers nor designers have a lot of experience of children as they tend to be (not always) young single childless women. So quite often, the sizes are made up, tweaked from 20 years ago, guessed at, numbers pulled out of mid air, or it sort of looks ok.
Size charts are available from Bsi, but are hideously expensive. From what I remember nothing ever got actually tried on child to check for fit either. As designers we used to rely on the measurements the buyers, had, but they often relied on ours, and sometimes we just used the factory ones. None were ever standardised.
All clothes are designed for the bell shaped curve, and will fit the 50th percentile of the population, the rest fall at the edges, but are not properly addressed as it is too expensive to cater for them.
..and also they are designed for the target market, so the specification for say a Primark age 8 is very different for a specification for a Boden age 8. A Boden customer would, say expect growing room and comfort. A Primark customer would maybe not expect either at the prices in Primark
Sadly Shagmundfreud is correct. We normalise many things that we shouldn't - obesity in children and in adults, drinking, portion sizes etc. Too many people just don't like to face up to an unacceptable truth and then accuse the truth tellers of being rude and politically incorrect.
A couple of examples - Just because the average woman is a size 16 (a 21st century 16, mind you, not a 1970 16 which was much smaller) we accept it as being OK when for most women it isn't. For health reasons women shouldn't drink more than 2 units of alcohol a day, but I know many who do and because this is considered "normal" and acceptable they deem it as not being a health risk.
So, which retail outlets cater more for slimmer children orangeandlemons?
My DD is skinny but long. We have to buy trousers that are a size up, and then I have to take them in at the waist. This is getting harder as she gets older as we are now buying 11 yr old's trousers and they are starting to be cut differently (ie to accomodate a bum, which DD doesn't have really yet) and tend to hang wierdly on her.
YY to the thing about brands above though. Expensive makes (like Boden) are cut differently and fit her better these days, whereas that never used to be the case.
Crickey I don't know now. It was years ago.
What a horrible goading OP.
Strangely all DC aren't 'average'.
Just like adults they are all different!
Some like interesting food, some are stupidly fussy, some like to read or draw and some like to do gymnastics on the sofa.
Yes, my horribly picky, never keeps still DD2 is thinner than her, book worm, food loving older sister.
But it's DD1 who eats the healthier more wide ranging diet, that actually contains vegetables and fish!
DD2 would happily live on ham sandwiches, apples, spag bol and ice cream!
orangesandlemons, that's a really helpful and constructive post.
It sounds like both the OP's OH and his customers both have a point. The manufacturers' aren't taking account of changing sizes and the fact that the median child is now fatter than 20 years ago. So the customers are quite reasonable in moaning. The shopkeeper doesn't have control over the manufacturers, so fair enough that he finds it irritating.
What I find annoying is that adult sizes are getting bigger, which is a PITA if you are an undersized short-arse. I used to be a 10 which was readily available, now I'm an 8 in most places, and there often isn't an 8 to be had.
I do think shagmund has a point. DS is skinny but not very skinny but if I don't buy trousers with adjustable waists then they fall down, he has to have them taken in 2 or 3 buttons on each side to fit. To me that suggests that the trousers are generally designed for children who are bordering on overweight.
"Strangely all DC aren't 'average'.
Just like adults they are all different!"
But it is indisputable fact that nearly 20% of children are now obese (not just overweight) in the last year of primary school. All the 'children are all different, my rugby playing son is very muscley' comments are all very well, but I don't believe that 20% of 11 year olds are prop-forwards.
Also DCs have their first teen growth spurt at different times which wreaks havoc with Y5-Y8 school uniform sizes.
It's also bad for the bank balance. A child who shoots up in primary, spends more years in adult shoes and 34" Vat paying uniform than their later developing peers.
Those who shoot up early or who are still tiny in Y8 can be very self conscious about it. They don't need snotty shop keepers looking down their noses, just because it's annoying having to stock a decent range of sizes.
My 9 year old wears age 11-12 - she can only wear dresses atm, age 11-12 jeans hang off her waist but age 9 jeans are 3 inches too short.
My 6 year old wear age 8.
I could force them to diet but will it stop them growing upwards at such an alarming rate?
Really that's what M&S are saying is it?
M& S have drastically shrunk their sizes.DS2 was wearing DS1s old school shirts but they were getting a bit shabby so I bought some more in the same size (age 14) and they were tiny.Smaller than the erstwhile size 13 s.A similar story with DD2s aged 7 blouses same size as her sisters ( 4 years older) M&S aged 6 blouses
M & S shrunk their sizes? Not for girl's school trousers. They are way too wide for DD.
Life styles have changed, the reality is we aren't all going to start walking and cycling like we used to.
For many the local schools and village shops aren't there anymore to walk to. If there is a shop on the corner it's stupidly expensive.
Most Mothers work, they don't have two hours a day to go back and forwards to school. My mum didn't, but from 7 we all went On Our Own. I can't see that happening today.
DCs have more interesting things to do than wander aimless about outside, I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. Honestly how often were you bored as a child, don't say never, because I won't believe you.
Some DCs are, undoubtably unhealthy over weight, some of my friends were probably too thin.
However, the reality is we cannot turn the clock back and I'm not certain we want to.
Aaa ah bang whizz, but that sounds like a fashion thing. Even school clothes are susceptible to the vagaries of fashion. Everything is very slim fit at the moment, so a size bigger may well be smaller. This is a conversation that myself and dh have on a regular and tedious basis.
DH: shirts from so and so don't fit anymore, they are all to tight
Me: that's because fashions have changed and everything is much closer fitting at the moment, but it will come round again
DH < 2 weeks later> shirts from so and so.....
Me: we had this conversation a fortnight ago
Dh: <4 weeks later> etc etc
So what your basically saying then startail is we have to accept children being overweight and obese as society has created the problem. Surely it's better for society to change to tackle things instead of letting future generations see obesity and as such the problems which come with it as normal?
I have one son who is extremely skinny and another who is a little bit chubby round the middle in my opinion. The chubbier one is 9 and in age 9-10 clothes exactly. 8-9 from M and S is too short in the arms and he is not that massively tall or long-limbed.
My chubbier child has a much bigger appetite than the skinny one, is constantly hungry and getting self 'snacks' etc (and I feel I can hardly ban crackers although I've banned puddings etc but that is a tough one when his brother is practically wasting away!!)
Sirzy I didn't read startail as saying that exactly? More that there is not the will on the part of governments and institutions to change anything and a massive culture of fear which means that children don't get to do anything on their own, run around etc. They are largely sedentary creatures now. This is clearly not a good thing but I think it is to a certain extent bigger than parents (! excuse turn of phrase). Most parents have to work and particularly when it comes to teenagers, you cannot control food choice.
Have to say that where I live in deprived area of London, there are a few obese children but FAR more obese teenagers. The scattering of fried chicken, chocolate and crisp wrappers strewn on the roads would explain why. I don't think it is largely parents providing this food. And you can't stop teenagers buying food they want when you're not looking. Obviously the 'answer' is to give teenagers a strictly balanced packed lunch every day but really how many parents are going to do that? Does that make them responsible for the obesity epidemic?
YABU. DS is tall and skinny, and to find clothes that fit his arms and legs I often have to go up in sizes, and they end up looking baggy. To be outside the average doesn't automatically make you overweight.
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Parents can play a key role though. To try to find other things to blame is wrong it's up to parents to educate children in the importance of a balanced diet and active lifestyle. It's also up to schools and other organisations to reinforce the idea and provide opportunities.
To simply accept the fact that people are getting bigger is only going to make issues worse. Too many parents get defensive at the idea their child is overweight instead of stopping to think why that may be
I'm not saying we should except obese DCs, but yes I think we do have to accept the reality is that they are bigger than we were.
They are also taller and have bigger feet. That's probably also true of most of us if we look at our parents.
I'm actually slightly shorter than DM, but my DSIS, DSIL and most of my friends weren't. DD1 is taller than me and her DFs are either taller than their mums already or will be by 17.
So I don't think everything about modern living can be 100% bad and unhealthy.
The one think that could be improved, relatively easily, is after school activities for Y6-Y9 (10-14 girls).
If you are not 'sporty' the amount of recreational sport very small.
DD1 would have done, aquarobics, water polo, or some other fun swimming, but there is nothing, if you don't race.
She trampoline a bit, but the coach left and she felt too tall to do gym with tiny Y4s. School sets for sport and they do fun aerobics and dance and swimming for the non competitive ones, but it's not enough.
They need lunch time clubs and after school groups that do "active, but non competitive things.'
I don't think anyone agrees that it's good for children to be obese but the original gist of this thread was about clothes sizes. My Dd could be a bit slimmer, but even then, girls trousers and especially jeans, won't go near her, because they are designed for children who don't have curves! To take an 11 year old shopping and not be able to get jeans like her friends have is heartbreaking. I control her eating as best I can and she takes plenty of exercise, but I can't chop her hips and boobs off!
If anyone knows where I can get nice curvy jeans that won't be miles too long, that would be fab!
3monkeys - can you not buy her womens sizes and then if needed take them up?
Startail - I agree, that was when I lost interest in exercising because I wasn't good enough to be on the competitive teams at school it seemed that school almost didn't care. It was around then I started putting on weight and vicious cycle began! From 10/11 onwards is probably when young girls need to be encouraged to be active most considering the changes their body goes through naturally
Childhood obesity flattened out from 2009 apparently so perhaps all that lecturing parents about responsibility got through ;)
sadly though the problem as a whole will never be completely solved just by telling parents they are stupid and naughty. ( Though undoubtedly some of them are.)
Apparently the rapid increase in early puberty among girls is to do with the increase in high-calorie foods and general childhood weight, and this is a common thing, not just restricted to obese children. We mostly all eat a lot of mass-produced, mislabeled crap these days, even the 'thin'. So unfortunately this isn't a job parents can do by themselves, unless they go back to the land and grow all their own food or are rich enough to shop only in health food shops.
At any rate childhood sizing has now been revised upwards just like adult sizing. I was a size 14 at age 16 (slightly fatter than I am now but somewhat firmer ) and I am now a 10 and sometimes an 8 (in M and S). Ridiculous.
YABU - especially to presume that children don't fit in their right age clothes because they are overweight!
DD1 fit in her age clothes, however DD2 does not. I have just had to buy her an age 12 school trousers and she is 8. She is not fat though!
DD is 5'5" and wears ladies size 10/ 12. She is the same height and clothes size as two of her Aunts.
She has just turned 10 years old by the way.
I really must stop feeding her mustn't I OP?
You also say that in M&S The sizes are all in line with average sizes of children or slightly bigger Disagree with 'slightly bigger' but go along with 'average'.
So if we were all the same size and shape and average we would all fit nicely. Have another .
I disagree with slightly bigger as well. The trousers are way too short and way too wide. And I know loads of mumsnetters agree because there have been umpteen posts on here about it.
Hmm. My friend with the medically overweight child thinks it's ridiculous that he is classed as overweight.
And very few (maybe one?) person on here has actually described their child as "chubby".
And yet we have several parents on here who say their children are having to wear clothes not just one, but two or three sizes above their age.
There is some denial going on here. I am sorry, but there must be.
Mrs Louis Theroux-your ten year old has the same height and clothes size as me.
I could certainly shift
a stone a few pounds. Size 10/12, even for an adult is not even particularly slim anymore.
Some children are very tall though. We need to differentiate between those who need a larger size because of their height or because of their weight.
HI Ifnot, it was me who said ds1 is a bit chubby. He probably isn't medically overweight. He's in the 'right' size clothes for age 9-10 but they fit fairly snugly.
I do worry because i know all about obesogenic foods and he has such a big appetite and all for the wrong things. Before he was chubby I used to allow the odd treat like any (?) other parent but now I'm withdrawing them. It's v hard though because I don't want him to feel self-conscious and 'monitored', and sometimes kids go do through a slightly chubby phase (I was bigger when young.. but not at 9).
I can see for myself that children are getting a lot fatter though, and was looking through old photo albums of myself and siblings, on holidays etc, and I was surprised at how skinny my brothers were, and how slim I looked,by today's standards, even though I was definitely at the chunkier end of the scale in my class, if not the chunkiest.
Interestingly, my bros, while all tall and broad, have not a beer gut or love handle between them. The bastards.
Ifnot yes I'd go so far as to say that size 10-12 can conceal quite a bit of flesh, certainly does on me. On my thinner days when no one would ever describe me as a sylph, I can fit an 8, but only in shops like m and s where sizing is huge. I would say my measurements are 37-28-38/9 on a fairly good day. That is not thin.
If the daughter mentioned above is 6 feet tall it does make a difference, I'm only about 5 foot 6.
I BALLOONED as a teenager IfNot. That was in the 80s. I couldn't stop eating, and expanded and expanded. It was a constant battle until my mid 30s when for whatever reason my appetite went down.
Ah, OK domesticgoddess. It's probably a good idea to very subtly monitor what he eats. It is difficult because you don't want him to feel bad.
My parents put me on a diet when I was really little, because I was a greedyguts, and they were worried I would just get enourmous!
I don't think I was aware of this at the time though.
When I say diet, btw, I just mean they hid the cake!
yes ifnot I already have to hide stuff from him. It seems very hard on his brother who is skin and bone, never to have a biscuit or whatever because ds1 would then have to have one... etc. But I stopped buying them and trying to avoid all the other stuff he is obsessed with (red meat... sigh. total ill health fest)
I wish they would hide the cake now...
you just have to not buy it :D cheap and effective!1
My dd wears clothes ranging from 10-14 year old
She's 11 and 5ft 3 with size 5 feet
Mil told her she must be fat because she wears bigger clothes
I do despair sometimes!
While I don't agree with all your points Startail, I think you're absolutely right about comp v non-comp sport and I find it in relation to everything, not just sport. So basically, now that my kids have the rudiments of swimming for example, they have a choice of joining a highly competitive club and it taking over their lives, or me kicking their butts down to the pool once a week and making them do 30 laps (both equally unfeasible).
Teenagers, and probably more girls than guys, need more general sports clubs (activities like circuits, aqua aerobics, running, fun team sports etc) not geared towards competition.
Nowadays, there is definitely too much eating of junk and too little exercise. Without going into the whys and wherefores, nobody can honestly say that's a better thing than what was there before.
And regarding the OP, it's quite simple: people are bigger. What used to be a size 12/14 for a normal woman is now sold as a 10 or whatever. The waistlines of kids' clothes are undoubtedly much bigger and without making any comment for or against that, I'm pretty hacked off with trying to get waists to fit my thin-waisted but imo average sized 11 year old DS without having to deal with this ridiculous elasticated waist crap and go three ages down to get something where each ruddy leg doesn't fit two of his. Stores, please just provide a variety of clothes measurements to fit all shapes thanks!
"Teenagers, and probably more girls than guys, need more general sports clubs (activities like circuits, aqua aerobics, running, fun team sports etc) not geared towards competition."
Unfortunately we are facing closure of several leisure centres and sports stadiums where we live.
@bunbaker. That is joined up anti-obesity policy for you.
I'm researching childhood obesity policy in the UK right now for work, and a bigger load of empty verbiage you could not hire a monkey and typewriter to churn out.
Jamie Oliver's right, the government could not give two hoots if the children of the land ate supersize mcdonalds 3 times a day. They even made MacDonalds (and some other geniuses of public health such as Diageo the booze suppliers) draft the public health white paper. Because the people who helped create the obesity epidemic are clearly the experts in reducing obesity...You really have to laugh. :/
"I'm researching childhood obesity policy in the UK right now for work"
I suggest you google for leisure centre closures in the Sheffield area and surrounding environs then. It is a hot topic round here right now.
That's a disgrace it really is.
HI Bunbaker. Yeah I heard about it all and not only in Sheffield. It's appalling.
Austerity is targeting all the services ordinary people need to access for health.
Then the poorer of society who no longer have anywhere to exercise (especially children, who can hardly be sent to jog around the streets for an hour) will be told it's all the fault of Bad Parenting and it's their fault they are going to die early.
Then once there is no free health care any more the death rate will really start to rise I think. In my most cynical moments I wonder if the guys at the top have foreseen all that and really don't give a sh** cos who needs the underclass anyway?
DS is 6 - he wears 9-10 year old tops and 8-9 trousers. He's just very tall.
This is crazy my ds is 9 and is in age 12-13 and I can see all his ribs due his love his sport! Not all children in a bigger size are due to waist size. Infact I have to buy adjusted trousers so they are not down at his ankles
I totally agree about non-competitive sporting activities.
Our leisure centre is literally crumbling. There are holiday sports activities, but they are privately run and really expensive. Youth clubs are closing too, and they are a good way of letting kids run around and blow off steam in a healthy way.
Mrslouistheroux size 10/12 for a 10 year old is way too hefty
Mrslouistheroux size 10/12 for a 10 year old is way too hefty
No actually, one of my DD's friends fits exactly the same specs, and to look at her, you'd think she was 13/14/15. She's very tall and a little developed but not fat. Some kids develop at an astonishing rate early and it evens out later.
My dd1 is (almost) 10, she is in a size 12-13 in most shops, and in others I have to get an adult size 10. She is overweight, but her hormones are raging atm. She's developing breasts and I'm fairly certain she'll start her periods soon. She actually eats a very healthy diet and is quiet sporty. I'm not worried, DSD was exactly the same at that age and by the time she was 11 she'd lost all the puppy fat, she's now a size 10, 20 year old. Funnily enough, even when she does try on age appropriate clothes so 9-10 they're always far too long, I'm talking trousers being about 3-4 inches too long in the leg. Why? She's not small, quite average height really, she's the same size as most of the other girls in her class.
In contrast my dd2 is 6 and wears size 4-5 clothes. She's absolutely tiny in both height and weight. The age appropriate clothes for her are ridiculous! They wouldn't fit her for another 3-4 years. She has a terrible diet, she doesn't like anything healthy, stick a slab of chocolate in front of her and she could finish it in 10 seconds.
Why do children's clothes manufactures always assume that children are very tall and skinny?
Mrslouistheroux size 10/12 for a 10 year old is way too hefty
Well that depends if they're in that size for the width or the height, doesn't it?
These childhood obesity threads piss me off. I know people like to judge others to make them feel better about themselves but can't you just stick to being nasty about someone your own age?
'These childhood obesity threads piss me off. I know people like to judge others to make them feel better about themselves but can't you just stick to being nasty about someone your own age? '
..and it is exactly that sort of attitude that makes parents think that a 10 or 11 yr old in size 12 womans clothes is fine.It isn't.
I am short but have two children who have had to wear clothes 2-3 years above their age for years to get the right length. My daughter has shape & therefore wears adult clothes at age of 12 because children's clothes assume she'll still be stick-like or under 5'4. I had to buy age 16 school skirt for her ( in m&s) for year 6 as the smaller ones were indecently short imo. My son's trousers all gape around the waist and shirt sleeves are rarely long enough. They're both fit & healthy so I've given up worrying about labels.
My daughter is 75th centile on height and weight, so she must be perfectly normal for her age. I never buy clothes for the "year" she's in - you know children are going to grow, you buy the biggest you can get them in without looking daft, even if they fit into smaller sizes. Only time I've ever bought what fitted her best that day was a bridesmaid's dress.
I don't think anyone is being "nasty" about overweight children. Some of us are pointing out that, yes, children are getting bigger, many, many children are overweight, and that, on the whole, parents seem to be just a bit oblivious/in denial about it, which doesn't do kids any favours in the long run.
If an eight year old is overweight, it is not really the child's fault, is it?
I have said I was prone to being overweight as a child (due not to hormones, or a glandular problem, just simple love of food in large amounts) and my parents saw this, and nipped it in the bud.
Saying "oh, my ds just has big bones, and anyway, look at all the other big boned children in his class" is actually harming children because the longer this goes on, the fatter children will get, and this is just not a healthy way to be.
Why do children's clothes manufactures always assume that children are very tall and skinny?
I don't think they do, actually in my experience most clothes are too big for my slightly skinny DS. I think that if a child needs to go up a size to fit around the waist then that should in most cases be enough to make parents stop and think if there is something which needs changing for the child's sake
There is simply no need to be nasty to or about any child, fat or thin.
If anyone had a go at my ds for being a bit on the chubby side I'd feel like decking them.
Concern about rising obesity does not justify sneering, competitiveness ('I am a responsible parent cos my kids are thin, you're not' etc) and pettiness. Not that I'm saying that appears on this thread really but it sure does elsewhere.
Why do children's clothes manufactures always assume that children are very tall and skinny?
But they don't. My experience is that they cater for the "average" child, which just happens to be a lot wider than my daughter.
There are overweight /obese children and I worry about my Dd's weight. But I don't think she would ever fit into age 11 trousers because they ARE designed for straight up and down girls, and she is shapely. Losing weight won't change that and,as I've said, she couldn't do any more exercise! We have to accept that some people are bigger than others. That has always been the case, and that does not include truly overweight or obese children.
Interestingly if she was a boy, I don't think anyone would think she was too big
Where are you shopping 3monkeys? The girls trousers I see are shped differetly to boys.More 'hippy'
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