It's totally unreasonable for a parent to yell at me at beavers

(73 Posts)
ChoudeBruxelles Wed 06-Mar-13 21:08:40

Because her little darling didn't get a badge as he didn't do the work towards it?

I volunteer ffs to help run it.

This thread would be better if it really said as I read It's totally unreasonable for a parent to yell at at me beaver

However, yes, the parent was U and her child will likely never work hard at anything.

Sirzy Wed 06-Mar-13 21:13:11

Assuming the help was there to do the work if needed then YANBU, and actually no matter what YANBU as she shouldn't have shouted at you

HintofBream Wed 06-Mar-13 21:13:31

That is horrid, ChoudeB. Some people are simply foul and totally unappreciative of people like you. I am sure plenty of other parents are very grateful to you and the rest of the volunteers.

nickelbabe Wed 06-Mar-13 21:19:03

of course yanbu.
but parents love their precious kids.

some can do no wrong and some believe their children are so wonderful they are entitledto everything without trying.

ooh, and they're the ones who complain about their kids' behaviour.

Floggingmolly Wed 06-Mar-13 21:23:07

Tell her if it happens again (her being abusive or little darling not doing what he's supposed to) he'll be removed from the register and she can take her custom elsewhere.

MrsHoarder Wed 06-Mar-13 21:30:38

This is one of the reasons I stopped helping at Cubs. Parents expecting volunteers to babysit provide fulfilling activities for their children and not realising the money is only to cover costs and hall fees and we usually pay to help rather than the other way around.

ChoudeBruxelles Wed 06-Mar-13 21:31:02

He didn't come one of the weeks we were doing badge work. I would have told her that he could make it up at home but she stormed off telling me how crap we were

LemonBreeland Wed 06-Mar-13 21:32:58

YANBU she should be told if she acts like that again he is out.

Sorry I shouldn't laugh but I read it the same way as "MrsTerryPratchett"

HamAlive Wed 06-Mar-13 21:35:07

Rude. He didn't do the work, what did she expect?

exoticfruits Wed 06-Mar-13 21:38:41

As an ex Beaver leader I would tell her that you are a volunteer, you do not get paid and if she doesn't like it she can remove her child BUT that you are not going to be shouted at. You will run it the way you want to run it and if she isn't happy she can do the training and take over. Furthermore - if her DC wants a badge he needs to do the work- it is called life. Don't put up with it.

ProphetOfDoom Wed 06-Mar-13 21:40:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChoudeBruxelles Wed 06-Mar-13 21:41:24

I'm just quite shocked that she felt it was ok to behave like that.

Couldonlyhappentome Wed 06-Mar-13 22:01:53

I don't know what's got into people these days with all the shouting that's going on. Lots of angry people out there.

SugarplumKate Wed 06-Mar-13 22:44:06

YADNBU. I am an ex-beaver leader and now chair our scout group. As has been suggested, I would remind her that you are a volunteer and that you will not be spoken to like that. Obvioulsy the moment has passed now, but I'd suggest you refer it to your GSL or chair and ask them to speak to the parent. If this happened in our group, I'd take great pleasure in phoning the parent and insisting on an apology for the leader. Some people are so ungrateful!

weblette Wed 06-Mar-13 22:45:55

Agree with SPK - make sure your GSL knows about this.

Permanentlyexhausted Wed 06-Mar-13 22:48:21

YADNBU! (says this Brownie Guider!)

SarahLundKicksAss Wed 06-Mar-13 22:55:50

YADNBU! Cub leader here, getting slightly peed off with some parents who moan at you for the slightest thing, complain about badges, yet never, ever offer to help when we are short of leaders....oh, and rush off with their precious DCs after a weekend camping with no word of thanks for us leaders - and in many cases, not even having the courtesy to let them know that they've picked up the child, so you are checking the portable loos to see if you've lost anyone! (Rant over). Don't get me started on the ones who are late to pick up (sorry... I just lost track of the time!) - Yes, and I would like my tea now please, not sat waiting for you in a draughty scout hut!

Maryz Wed 06-Mar-13 23:01:42

We are lucky with our group in that most of the parents are very supportive. But we do always at any time have at least one I would like to strangle - parent that is, most of the kids are pretty nice.

I don't get this "dish out badges to everyone all the time" bit. Badges are prizes for work done, outings attended, experiences, erm, experienced.

And just as an aside - I think some parents and certainly some children don't realise we are volunteers. I had one child ask me did I get overtime for cub camp, and another who when told that we didn't get paid said "why do you do it then?".

I refrained from saying "fuck knows hmm".

RainbowRabbit33 Wed 06-Mar-13 23:28:38

This Rainbow leader says YANBU.

Maryz - totally agree. I also get this regularly from parents. Out of interest, do you ever get the other side? As in other volunteers getting pissy because you don't spend your entire life as much time as them devoted to 'The Cause'?

Maryz Wed 06-Mar-13 23:32:09

I'd be afraid to admit to that Rainbow.

My group leader might sack me grin

Actually, now, there's an idea ......

mrsballack Wed 06-Mar-13 23:34:37

Another beaver leader here adding support and saying yanbu.
We have one woman who pitches up late every week to drop her child off and the one week we were running late due to illness and having to retrieve keys from the ill leader she asked if we would be finishing late. I curtly replied that seeing as we never finish less than ten minutes late usually she should be here as usual to pick her child up. It shocks me how few parents realise we don't get paid.

ChoudeBruxelles Thu 07-Mar-13 15:36:47

She phoned me today to apologise - although I didn't get the pleasure of talking to her as I couldn't get to my phone - so she left a message. As much as I appreciate the apology it was tapered with a further whine about her son not getting the badge! And how we could manage to write letters to parents to reinforce rules but not what they need to do to get badges - we send out a schedule each term saying what we are doing each week ffs.

ChoudeBruxelles Thu 07-Mar-13 15:37:52

Rainbowrabbit yes I get the other side too - I really don't want to spend my entire spare time doing scouting things

Springdiva Thu 07-Mar-13 15:51:49

Don't the Scout movement produce a flier each term to remind DPs that those running groups are volunteers and that they also value their spare time so could DPs please pick and drop off on time. If they don't they prob should.

TheSlug Thu 07-Mar-13 16:16:01

it's horrible when you get parents like that. Luckily, now I'm guides only, most of my parents are wonderful. but while I was at brownies I had several run ins with parents! I felt like saying if you think you can do it better- be my guest! Hope the apology was genuine and you feel better now.

As a parent I would be ashamed if I behaved like this. DC is a Cub and DD a Guide, and I am grateful to all the leaders who give up their time for this.

I can't commit to a regular time at present, but I help out when I can (and it looks like I'm being tapped to teach some craft stuff to the Guides soon, perhaps because I do card-making and jewellery making as a hobby grin)

I know that the parents I see at Cubs and Guides are really nice, shame it's not like that everywhere.

NigelMolesworth Thu 07-Mar-13 18:24:59

YADNBU (another Rainbow Guider here). Recently we have had a spate of parents behaving like this and it drives me mad. The most recent one was a moan about not knowing about the arrangements for one of our sessions. Parent says 'well it would have been useful if you'd sent out a note to tell us'. My response 'we did last week. And the week before. And it was in the newsletter at the beginning of term.' Quite satisfying!

The usual parental complaint we get is that they have to wait to join because we are full and there's a waiting list. My usual answer is 'oh I agree that it's not good enough. We don't have enough adults at the moment. Can I put your name forward to the commissioner as someone who'd be prepared to start a new unit?' grin Usually they back right off...

exoticfruits Thu 07-Mar-13 19:20:22

Funny that one NigelM-they quickly back away!
I did just that-started a new unit.

kerala Thu 07-Mar-13 19:28:06

Shocking. Makes me so mad when people treat VOLUNTEERS who are doing things to benefit their DC as if they are sub standard staff (not that its ok to treat paid staff this way but even worse if you are giving of your time). My friend runs a guide pack and got an email of complaint about something really petty signed by both parents. Bastards.

I do stuff for the school and often get people "suggesting" I do extra things or moaning - my response is to assume they are volunteering its such fun to watch them scuttle off grin

Cakecrumbsinmybra Thu 07-Mar-13 19:32:35

Oh poor you OP, how horrible. I don't think I could handle that kind of thing gracefully, which is why I would probably make a rubbish scout leader!! DS has just joined Beavers and I feel such gratitude towards the lovely people leading the group (all just other mums and dads) for being so nice to him, and giving up their time. So yes, of course YANBU and I am sure you are doing a fantastic job.

ll31 Thu 07-Mar-13 19:33:05

well at least she apologised, maybe she didnt know How they get badges.. never been in scouts but i've lost s lot of leaflets

DonderandBlitzen Thu 07-Mar-13 19:41:38

I think a letter should go out to all parents saying what Exoticfruits suggested. Doesn't matter that she left the whiny apology. (I help at Rainbows every week.)

I love Nigel's answer "'oh I agree that it's not good enough. We don't have enough adults at the moment. Can I put your name forward to the commissioner as someone who'd be prepared to start a new unit?'" grin

NigelMolesworth Thu 07-Mar-13 19:43:21

We got one lovely lady that way exotic but I think she is the only one in 12 years!

DonderandBlitzen Thu 07-Mar-13 19:44:50

Sorry should have said that the letter could be sent to shouty mum rather than all parents.

Budgiegirlbob Thu 07-Mar-13 20:06:25

I am an assistant cub leader, and I have to say that the majority of parents are great, helpful and appreciative. But of course there are always one or two that just don't realise the effort that goes into running a pack/troop/unit.
One of our scout leaders must have been having a hard time with parents, as when I arrived to a meeting one evening, a version of this link had been pinned to the door.

Permanentlyexhausted Thu 07-Mar-13 21:41:18

I like that Budgiegirl - think I might make a note of it for possible use later!

Budgiegirlbob Thu 07-Mar-13 22:31:17

It made me smile when I read it, permanentlyexhausted, I particularly liked the line "forgive us if we are not the kind of leader you would be of only you had the time".

lurkerspeaks Thu 07-Mar-13 23:58:13

I'm not currently involved in scouting or guiding but have been in the past.

YADNBU. I would write acknowledging her apology but saying that if there was a repeat incident her child would no longer be welcome at Beavers. You might need to get the support of your District Commissioner.

Parents will never cease to amaze me. One mother told my sister who was at the time keeping the local guiding scene going practically single handed - running the rainbow unit, helping at guides and managing the senior section that she was an unsuitable leader. Her crime - she has some tattoos. This was in a middle class little village where there is a massive waiting list to get into rainbows and a significant proportion of the local girls never get the chance to join as volunteers to help are like hens teeth. Most of the parents would rather chuck money at the unit than actually help out.

My sister told the woman that if she didn't like her as a role model she had tow choices: 1) her daughter stopped coming to rainbows and one of the other 30 girls on the waiting list would get a place or 2) the mother got her own warrant, set up her own unit and dealt with all the admin to enable her daughter to have a rainbow experience.

Her daughter stayed in the unit with no further issues.

exoticfruits Fri 08-Mar-13 06:52:21

I love the notice Budgiegirl, if I was still a leader I would pin it up.
I always hated the fact that parents would always prefer to chuck money at the unit rather than help out. It was so hard to get time from anyone.

RobotLover68 Fri 08-Mar-13 07:23:51

Cub leader here - I would get the GSL to speak to her, apology or no apology - as an aside, I've been announcing just before badge giving "if you're not getting x badge tonight it's because you still have a small amount of work to do so come and see me after and I will tell you what's to be done" this has been working really well for us. Some can be bothered and some can't so it's up to them really

adeucalione Fri 08-Mar-13 09:06:00

There is no excuse for rude or unsupportive behaviour, but I was one of those parents who 'chucked money at the unit rather than helping out'.

This was because I worked full time and, with three DC, ran around all week to about 12 different activities - most of whom regularly asked for time commitments from parents.

What I did was choose the 2-3 things that I felt I could help with, and supported the others by being on time, paying promptly and saying 'thank you' often. I am sure, after reading this, that I would've been one of those parents who were grumbled about for 'dropping and running'.

I think there is a tendency, when volunteering, to make assumptions about those that haven't chosen to volunteer in the same capacity that you have, but may well be doing their bit elsewhere.

RocknRollNerd Fri 08-Mar-13 09:27:43

I sympathise hugely over demanding twattish parents, but I have to say I don't particularly like that 'We are Only Leaders' notice. It comes across as a bit smug and lumps all the supportive parents in with the randome twats. Don't get me wrong I understand the sentiment and feelings behind it but if I saw that pinned up at one of DS clubs I would be somewhat peeved. I believe in what Scouting/Guiding has to offer however I also believe in what the sport I coach has to offer too and I'm pretty damn sure I'm coaching kids of our Scout/Guide leaders at 9am on a Sunday morning.

I do think many organisations and volunteers suffer because people don't realise/appreciate that we give up way more than the 1.5/2 hours we have the kids. Two common misconceptions I encounter are that 1) I'm paid for what I do and 2) I have no qualifications (doesn't help that I coach a sport which is still very much seen as a boy's sport) I'm 'just' a well meaning mum helping out.

I crossed swords the year after I took my coaching exams with a parent who decided to stir himself from his Sunday papers and coffee and shout over that I was doing it wrong and his kid was missing out. He kept going even when I'd explained that I knew exactly which kids had done which skills/position and everyone would have got a go by the end.

The final straw came when he complained loudly that there appeared to be no organisation and system to what I was doing. I stood in the middle of the game and asked him to repeat it as I hadn't quite heard...he refused so I called him out on it, repeated it back (I am a child of PE teachers, genetically I apparently still have the voice that can carry across 50 kids on a sports pitch!) and then got all the kids to sit down and stop what they were doing. The guy kicked off as to why I'd stopped the game and I politely explained he was clearly unhappy with the coaching provision so the safest thing was for me to stop the games and I would go to the other pitch and get the head coach so he could make a complaint to him. The guy shut up at that stage and said I could carry on shock. I was very lucky in that our head coach is a total star and when I told him at the end of training he went over and called the guy out on being a twat. The guy and his kids didn't appear for 3 weeks, then they came back and to his credit the guy came over at the start and apologised. That said, part of his explanation was that he 'hadn't realised I was a proper coach' which left me a bit hmm.

Groovee Fri 08-Mar-13 11:17:57

I dread opening my brownie email, dreading what delights one parent needs to say to me behind email and not face to face.

I know ds hasn't done all the clauses for some badges but we're working with his cub leaders to get the clauses ASAP.

MrsHoarder Fri 08-Mar-13 15:06:03

adeucalione I never judged parents who dropped and ran and said thank you. I judged the ones who ranted at me for not doing enough (and on one memorable occasion, not being a man. Not sure what I was supposed to do about that.)

Don't worry about it, we all do what we can.

exoticfruits Fri 08-Mar-13 15:14:32

You appreciate that parents are just as busy elsewhere-however, in my experience, the ones who moan or criticise are the ones who don't do much themselves.

Emilythornesbff Fri 08-Mar-13 15:43:22

Well she wbu to yell at you, but I guess she knows that as she apologised.

Whojamaflip Fri 08-Mar-13 15:52:37

Had a lovely parent last night who dropped her beaver off 15 mins late and then had the nerve to complain that her ds had missed the warm-up song as it was his favourite bit shock

I explained that Beavers started at 5.30 and if her ds wanted to do the song, it would be an idea for her to get him there for that time!

This is the same parent who is regularly late picking up and doesn't seem to notice that we are stood by the door with all the lights off in the hut ready to lock up....

I have also had verbal abuse from a parent because his ds hadn't gained his chief scouts bronze award before moving to cubs but his 2 mates had - that might be because said ds had been absent at least 2 nights a month and as a results had missed half of his badgework - I am not going to award badges just because their mates are getting them


YANBU (another Beaver leader lending support).

If she's properly apologetic next time you see her, can you suggest she helps out next time you're doing badge work so she can see the sort of things they do and she can help him complete missed weeks at home?

ChoudeBruxelles Fri 08-Mar-13 19:59:46

She emailed the beaver leader today to say she is removing her son.

Oh we'll.

ChoudeBruxelles Fri 08-Mar-13 20:00:05

Well - stupid autocorrect

foslady Fri 08-Mar-13 21:33:25

Part of me feels like you've got a result there, OP, but more of me feels sorry for her son, I mean, he's been told an incorrect version of the truth and will think that he was never awarded a badge he should have had (not!) and now can't have the fun that he's had with you all at Beavers.

Could I take the liberty of slightly hijacking your thread to say a massive thank you to everyone who gives their time to the Guiding and Scout movement? As you may know, there's just me and dd (she does see her dad, but it's not the same as him being at home). All her friends have the 'traditional' family set up - both parents at home, siblings, so at time I worry about her social development, and worry in case the close bond we have can stifle her. Thanks to her attending Rainbows, Brownies and as of a couple of weeks ago, Guides she has her guiding 'sisters' and has her own 'safe' independence, the one thing I alone cannot give her (and yes, I have profusely thanked all her Badgers/Brown Owls/Leaders!). thanks to the movement she has had experiences I couldn't give her - camping with others around her age, even going abroad to Disney Paris - and has benefited so much from these experiences. Because of our close bond, despite being asked about going into uniform I have held back as I do not want to encroach on her time, but instead have volunteered on the rota and (with approval from BO) done crafting sessions and a badge with the group which I thoroughly enjoyed.
She's lucky enough to be going to Poacher this year for the week, something we are both looking forward to, because I know when she comes back yet again she will have had an amazing time, with amazing people doing amazing things.

So thank you. Genuinely thanks

That's lovely Foslady smile

pigletmania Fri 08-Mar-13 22:24:21

My dd 6 has asd and has just joined rainbows, she loves it and the leaders are great. I dident know it was voluntary

exoticfruits Fri 08-Mar-13 22:30:26

All voluntary pigletmania- you can become one yourself - it is good fun!

exoticfruits Fri 08-Mar-13 22:31:46

If you want to, that is. You can just be a non uniformed helper too if you wish.

NigelMolesworth Fri 08-Mar-13 22:45:11

It is good fun - despite all my moans and groans about it, I love it! I have made some wonderful friends, the (majority of) the children are lovely and most parents are supportive. It's really the odd one or two that rile me!

A thank you goes a long way so thank you foslady!

BanjoPlayingTiger Fri 08-Mar-13 22:53:58

I know this isn't what the thread was about, but I'd like to echo what foslady said.

My kids have been in scouting since just before they were 6 and its been fantastic. We have just moved house and being able to move scout troop easily has been a godsend. It has meant the kids have settled in here better and have made friends quickly. The leaders of this troop and the previous one regularly went above and beyond anything you'd expect of them and were just fantastic.
My kids wouldn't be who they are today without those leaders and the scouting organisation as a whole.

So Thank-you to all of you who spend time week in, week out preparing and providing activities you are very much appreciated! thanks wine

NigelMolesworth Fri 08-Mar-13 22:54:58

BTW Chou, at least that creates a space for someone else who might appreciate it more...but sad for her son as she is just else setting him up for a life of disappointment sad

Pilgit Fri 08-Mar-13 23:00:03

Guide Guider here - totally not being unreasonable. But you're lucky the parents actually care - some of my parents have readily admitted that they don't know if their children actually turn up as they don't see them from school ending till when they get home (circa 9.30 on a school night). Although perhaps my bitterness at being treated like a very cheap babysitter is shining through...?

pigletmania Fri 08-Mar-13 23:04:12

I think I will once ds 13 monts is older, I was thinking about that

pigletmania Fri 08-Mar-13 23:06:39

I don't care as long as dd is happy which she is ad lives t. Ts good that the wafer works with autistic Chidren in her day job So is used to children like dd

pigletmania Fri 08-Mar-13 23:08:05

Meant leader not wafer doh. Don't care abut badges etc I just want dd to be happy there

Anyone else suspect she has seen thIs thread? The apology & removal seem, um, coincidental.

exoticfruits Sat 09-Mar-13 07:21:23

I suspect that she had a good moan to someone and they told her that you can't shout at volunteers but you don't have to send them if you don't like it.

kerala Sat 09-Mar-13 09:55:29

Echo Foslady. Of all the activities DD does Rainbows is her favourite. As far as I can tell they run around a hall screaming the leaders must be saints to endure that. I had so many amazing experiences whilst a Brownie and Guide am considering stepping up...just not sure my nerves can take it!

thefirstmrsrochester Sat 09-Mar-13 10:14:28

yy foslady
Volunteers don't get paid, not because they're worthless, but because they're priceless.

Maryz Sat 09-Mar-13 11:40:05

piglet scouting/guiding can be fantastic for children with ASD and with other difficulties. Because it is a group activity without the competitive element. We have had a lot of children with autism/AS/ADHD go through our group, as well as many with dyslexia/dyspraxia and other SEN.

dd has a girl in Rangers with her who had gone the whole way through guiding and is now 16 who has Downs Syndrome. She is a full member of the group, goes on all their trips and is now preparing for their outdoor challenges which mean going away without adults. No-one has ever suggested that she shouldn't be treated exactly the same as the rest of them.

Anyone who has a child with SN should try to talk to the local guide/scout group. I have found that 99% of the time they are incredibly open to children who are different. Of course occasionally parental input is essential - we had one child where we needed a parent/carer to come with him on trips out because he was liable to run into the road or off a cliff.

<end of ad grin>

Sirzy Sat 09-Mar-13 12:04:10

I'm a youth leader with a different organisation and you will always get the parents who expect their child to get everything without putting the work in, or who see it as cheap babysitting.

But a lot of parents are fantastic and support their child and go above and beyond what is expected.

pigletmania Sat 09-Mar-13 14:00:46

Thanks Maryz they are fantastic with her and she really enjoys it and keeps wanting to go back. Just started her in a dance group freestyle/disco which she is loving. It is very relaxed and te dance teacher is great. Thank goidness for her DLA as we would not be able to afford to go with all the taxis and uniform

pigletmania Sat 09-Mar-13 14:01:23

I need to start learning to drive again

worley Sat 09-Mar-13 14:08:46

just saying thankyou too for the beavers smile ds2 has ADHD.. where's at school he's labeled as the naughty one, at beavers he thrives on the activites and loves the doing and making things..he just got his science badge and is now convinced he is a "proper" scientist..
he goes to a different group than the children in his school so he has a different circle of friends..
OP, I read the parent has emailed to say she's removing her son. such a shame for the boy but maybe a relief for the leaders. you don't need toxic parents at the group.

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