to think some people resent me being a sahm?

(212 Posts)
PurpleMacaroon Sat 02-Mar-13 21:25:45

I was recently working part time but the company went into liquidation and sadly I was made redundant - and have been a sahm since October. We can still pay the bills and have some left over to do what we want with and thankfully I had managed to save too whilst I was working. We were surprised that this has worked well for us and we're planning on having another baby soon so I won't be going back to work any time soon.

I gave my friends a lift home last night (it was literally a 2 minute drive) so I said in a jokey way - "you both owe me petrol money" and they laughed and one said back - "don't you mean we owe your husband petrol money?"

I was invited by a friend to go on a weekend trip to Berlin (I went, cheap flight, standard hotel - nothing extravagant.) Didn't even bother to mention it until my friend asked me to go out for lunch on Saturday and I said I couldn't and she asked why. When I told her, she said "how the hell can you afford that when you're unemployed?? Oh is your husband paying then?"

It just hurts because I never judge or openly comment on them for their life decisions.

nailak Sat 02-Mar-13 21:28:34

look at them with an eyebrow raised and say, don't you save money up for a rainy day? wow!

LeftMeInSuspenders Sat 02-Mar-13 21:29:28

Re: the petrol money joke.I think maybe your friend didn't think you were joking and thought you may have been having a dig at her. Is she a non-driver? There are countless threads about non-drivers apparently ''expecting'' lifts and not appreciating them.

Bluelightsandsirens Sat 02-Mar-13 21:29:48

How very rude of them!

I've been a SAHM and working parent both have pros and cons but salary has nothing to do with it.

Our children + our money and all that.

Shakey1500 Sat 02-Mar-13 21:31:08

I would have had to say incredulously "My husband paying? Why on earth would you think such a thing?! I'm paying for myself of course you silly moo don't you have your own money?"

Or words to that effect.

WhatsTheBuzz Sat 02-Mar-13 21:31:18

maybe they're just surprised because many people not in work are badly struggling.

She doesnt sound like much of a friend.

PurpleMacaroon Sat 02-Mar-13 21:31:57

No LeftMeInSuspenders they honestly knew I was joking as I said it in an obvious jokey way and they both laughed when I said it.

We are all drivers and always giving each other lifts and never pay petrol money to one another or expect it.

Kat101 Sat 02-Mar-13 21:32:03

Maybe they're jealous that your husbands salary funds trips, car expenses etc. Maybe they are not as financially stable as you. That's different from being jealous of your sahm status though.

WorraLiberty Sat 02-Mar-13 21:32:31

You know some very strange people.

I've been a SAHM for years and have never experienced anyone saying a dickie bird.

Manchesterhistorygirl Sat 02-Mar-13 21:33:00

Some people do resent others being sahm, as one acquaintance said to me " it's ok for those lazy cows who sit on their arses all day at their husbands expense", hmmshock

Ignore OP, ignore.

coldcupoftea Sat 02-Mar-13 21:36:47

Do they have kids? In my experience, most WOHMs would not openly judge a SAHM like that, they know the deal. But people without kids who have always worked might think it funny/old-fashioned to be a SAHM. A bit mean when you have been made redundant though!

LeftMeInSuspenders Sat 02-Mar-13 21:37:50

I think it can be jealousy. My friends are all lovely but my DH friend made a comment to DH about how I had it ''cushty'' being a SAHM.
This guy's mother provides free childcare for his son so both he and his partner can work, I personally feel 'that' is pretty cushty.

PurpleMacaroon Sat 02-Mar-13 21:41:15

Yes I have children haha, I wouldn't call myself a stay at home mum if I wasn't.

I wouldn't be bothered about you being a sahm if you were my friend.

My husband lost his job nine months ago and struggled to find new work (worked in a fairly specialist area). I work, and we were managing on my wages. We did get some raised eyebrows about DH not working.

The only time I have ever got het up about the working/non working parent debate is when somebody I know passed comment that parents should be at home to look after their children and shouldn't have kids if they couldn't afford them. Almost gave myself an ulcer refraining from pointing out that the only reason she and her husband were able to stay at home with the kids all day was because other people went to work to paid into the system that ultiamtely paid her. Other than that - I try not to pass judgement as to what people do, we are all parents just trying to raise our children.

parabelle Sat 02-Mar-13 21:43:30

Why don't you ask them if it bothers you?
If you're comfortable with the set up and you feel as a family it's right for you, why worry about it?

aldiwhore Sat 02-Mar-13 21:44:26

What Worra said, with bells on.

Of course, everyone's entitled to their own opinions when it comes to roles within families and how finances are viewed... but that's not the point at all, they're plain rude, I LOATHE sly digs badly masked as 'just joking'.

I was a SAHM for 8 years, worked full time for 1, now part time, and have never really encountered comments from anyone who wasn't generally a twat anyway.

I expect to discuss, disagree, and be judged generally on here, I actively engage in the 'debate' but other than that, comment on my life and next time you're walking home [passiveaggressivesmiley]

MyDarlingClementine Sat 02-Mar-13 21:46:10

just marking my place.

coldcupoftea Sat 02-Mar-13 21:46:45

No, I said do they have children? As a parent would probably understand more about the realities of being a SAHM and the choices we make, while non-parents might assume it's all a bit of a jolly at your husband's expense!

LineRunner Sat 02-Mar-13 21:47:46

Well, obviously you have chosen friends who resent you being a SAHM.

Not sure anyone else is bothered, though.

TheBookofRuth Sat 02-Mar-13 21:48:09

Yeah, I get this too. Was out with some friends last night, and I lost count of the number of times they called me "a lady of leisure", or made comments about how they wanted to meet a rich man/woman to keep them.

I just laughed and shrugged it off - partly because I do think I'm very lucky to be in my position but also because I'd put money on none of them working as hard as I do.

None of them have kids, btw - I fully expect that WOHM work harder than me!

LineRunner Sat 02-Mar-13 21:49:00

Seriously, get better friends.

AlwaysWashing Sat 02-Mar-13 21:51:13

I agree, how very rude & smacks a bit of jealousy I'm afraid.
A lapsed friend said to me in a snarky sort of way "Oh but you don't DO working anymore do you." I didn't feel bad replying "Wonderful isn't it, I get to stay home and bring my own children up instead of farming them out to nursery."
He p***ed me off sufficiently to say that & I absolutely know that working parents are just as great as sahp ( before I get ripped to shreds) & that the choice to work or stay at home isn't even a choice for many. I felt totally belittled and insulted (for a whole 5 minutes) but frankly given the choice between leaving my DC with someone else for 8 hours a day or not, well I'm a very happy sahm grin

WorraLiberty Sat 02-Mar-13 21:52:44

It's not like raising your kids without paid/outside help is a new thing either, is it?

SAHMs have been doing this since they were SICMs (Stay in cave mums) grin

NK2b1f2 Sat 02-Mar-13 21:54:06

Not sure I'd still call them my friends. How rude of them to make snide remarks when it is really none of their business.

BlackholesAndRevelations Sat 02-Mar-13 21:54:47

What does "just marking my place" actually mean? If it's because you want to keep track of the thread, wtf don't you just make an actual real comment instead of this place marking bollocks?

To the OP; the grass is always greener, and those "friends" are clearly very jealous, which is a very unattractive trait. Just make some snidey comment back such as the ones mentioned upthread.

LineRunner Sat 02-Mar-13 21:56:14

I do think SAHMs lose the argument the minute they suggest they made a superior choice.

I just think it's about time we all accepted that SAHMs work. They do actual work.

I do a double shift as a lone parent who works out of the home, with an ExH who does nothing for his DC's home or upbringing, but that shouldn't mean that SAHMs energy exependiture is somehow negated. And it shouldn't mean my life is rubbished either.

scottishmummy Sat 02-Mar-13 22:00:40

friendships change,if the bad times outnumber the good it indicates drifting apart

WifeofPie Sat 02-Mar-13 22:01:45

How odd...and catty. Their comments don't even make sense...they're envy idiots and YABU to put up with that sort of nonsense (I mean that in a nice way). Don't think any more of it and enjoy the time with your lovely family.

PurpleMacaroon Sat 02-Mar-13 22:01:56

I do think SAHMs lose the argument the minute they suggest they made a superior choice

Yes I do agree there.

Or suggest something like - why did you even have children if you are going to work?

People do what they have to do and what works for them and I don't comment on anyones situation or think of them as a better or worse parents for working or staying at home.

scottishmummy Sat 02-Mar-13 22:05:55

Btw,contrary to mn popular myth most working mums arent jealous of housewife's
Do your thing,don't look for or expect approbation about your choices
If the friendship feels strained I'd say it's indicative of incomparability

SuedeEffectPochette Sat 02-Mar-13 22:14:01

Before I had children, when someone from work left to have a baby and intended not to come back, I would think that they were lucky to afford it and a bit lazy, as they wouldn't really be doing anything. Now that I have children, I realise that going to work is the easy option!

scottishmummy Sat 02-Mar-13 22:18:53

Another nonsensical myth,that being mutha is ardest job in it isn't

LineRunner Sat 02-Mar-13 22:18:57

Exactly. Being an at home parent is bloody hard work.

LineRunner Sat 02-Mar-13 22:20:03

Maybe not the 'hardest job in the world', sm, but it is (hard) work!

scottishmummy Sat 02-Mar-13 22:22:13

Yes,it's hard going being home with preschoolers

nailak Sat 02-Mar-13 22:36:37

it is hard for some, personally i find it harder then going to work, but that is an individual thing.

I also dont find it hard to get intellectual stimulation, do satisfying things etc while being at home, which dont revolve around my kids, there is plenty of stuff to do and get involved in that arent paid employment.

WafflyVersatile Sat 02-Mar-13 22:43:59

Maybe they thought you were having a sly dig that they should pay petrol money now you're not earning? It's amazing how misconstrued things can be.

Maybe there is a thread on the internet somewhere....

weewifey40 Sat 02-Mar-13 22:48:27

humans are complicated
Normally, when someone questions what you do in a dismissive tone, it says more about them than you.
ie. the sahm who says 'I don't want to farm out my kids' is justifying her decision to be at home with the dc's, whilst the wohm who says 'I'd love to have a rich husband and faff about all day' isn't being horrible. They're telling you that they want your life, but have no option cos husband doesn't earn enough.
They're jealous.
Take pity.

ImagineJL Sat 02-Mar-13 22:49:07

OP I think you're probably right that your friends may resent you.

I would never say anything like that to my SAHM friends but I confess I do sometimes think it. I know it's unreasonable, and it's my problem not theirs, hence why I would never articulate it.

But the bottom line is that I would LOVE to be a SAHM, I really would. But I'm a single parent with no support at all from anywhere else, so I have to work. But when I am reminded of the lives of SAHMs I feel envious, bitter, and also guilty because they are parenting in a way that I would like to.

I think many WOHMs feel guilty that they aren't at home more, whether they enjoy their jobs or not.

weewifey40 Sat 02-Mar-13 22:51:09

Worra, how long have you been a sahm?
I know some lovely, kind, wonderful people. I have very supportive friends. I've been a sahm for a short period after working and in that time have already had a couple of passive aggressive snipes. I had a couple of snipes when I was working too, (don't you worry leaving them in that nursery? Erm, no.)

I can imagine the comment made after the petrol joke was just a jokey piss take because of what you said. second comment however unless made inside jokey way would be very rude

impty Sat 02-Mar-13 22:54:20

Ignore! as a Sahm for 13 years never come across this in real life.

I have my own money. I have joint money. mmm whatever!grin my working friends are fine with my choices as are my sahm's!

perhaps new friends are in order?

I have had lots of comments like this over the years as I worked part time before we had kids. The only people who made those comments though we're jealous. Those that weren't jealous didn't feel the need to make sarcastic comments or little digs. So I've always gone with the "their jealousy, their problem" attitude.

You obviously have th ort of friendship where you tease each other, are they struggling to relate to you in your new role? To know what to say, where to draw the line?

scottishmummy Sat 02-Mar-13 22:56:59

See all housewife's off on a flyer,that working mums are jealous of housewife not working
Really?is that best you can come up with...that working Mum secretly jealous
Let's be clear I don't presume housewife want my ft job and I don't want be housewife

weewifey40 Sat 02-Mar-13 22:59:56

scottishmummy, I read your post in an angry voice, like you were shouting a little at the screen. I'm glad you're happy and don't want to be a housewife!

scottishmummy Sat 02-Mar-13 23:02:30

It's not an angry post but hey ho artistic licence read it any ole voice you want

impty Sat 02-Mar-13 23:03:03

oh SM you did well with you're previous you're getting hostile smile

live and let live...grin

impty Sat 02-Mar-13 23:04:11

cross post ...SM you're first post wasn't hostile.

jellybeans Sat 02-Mar-13 23:09:46

I am a SAHM of over 13 years. Was WOHM until DC2. I have had several comments over the years but I just ignore. They are always from WM friends or relatives. I think some are jealous and some genuinely are ignorant of the role or would not want it for themselves so assume no one would enjoy it. Just ignore and forget any comments. As long as you are happy that's all that counts in the end.

DeepRedBetty Sat 02-Mar-13 23:11:56

I've gone back to work now that ddtwins are big girls who get six hours free childcare for 190 days a year are at school. One thing I did do with my five years out of the employment mullarkey was re-evaluate what I wanted, and as a result I've gone back not into my old industry but self-employed into something a lot more interesting and child-friendly.

Having said, I don't remember ever getting any comments, positive or negative, about my choices. Maybe I've just got remarkably un-judgey friends though!

scottishmummy Sat 02-Mar-13 23:14:32

And this is clichétactic,them well jel.and if anyone say otherwise they're hostile?
If you're attitudinally at odds with pals due to change circumstance maybe you'll drift
Do your thing,don't expect approbation,and that's how it goes

MyDarlingClementine Sun 03-Mar-13 00:28:46

I just wonder what the government actually want from mothers really, would it benefit them more to have mums at home or working and paying someone else to care for children. I would suggest the latter, but I dont know.

Being able to say you stay at home or work shouldnt be such a touchy issue but it is.

Dannilion Sun 03-Mar-13 00:37:44

They're probably just having a bit of 'banter', I have a terrible habit of crossing the line with people I'm very close to, and they I. We know each others insecurities and wind each other up about it. However if you feel bad about the things they are saying, then it's not ok and you need to nip it in the bud.

I'm on ML and have already been the subject of not so PA comments like "well I couldn't just sit at home living off my DP, I'd go mad".( Not from people I'd consider my friends however!) and an eye rolling when I explain that it's MATERNITY PAY and I worked my ass off for years to get a decent amount. Some people are just permanently in a negative frame of mind.

DoJo Sun 03-Mar-13 01:03:16

And if they were jealous? You sound quite happy - why wouldn't someone be jealous that you at least appear to be having it all?

Goldenbear Sun 03-Mar-13 01:07:01

Scottish, you are equally quick to draw upon hackneyed stereotypical language to sneer at women that are SAHP. Your insistence on using the word, 'Housewife' for a start. This is not a role I recognise at all. I am hardly ever in the house and housework takes up about 20% of my day. Neither am I eagerly awaiting the arrival home of my DP for some 'adult company' and intellectual stimulation. Being a grown woman I am quite capable (shock horror - the little wifey is not dependent and needy) of seeking out adult company if necessary. I have a subscription to 'The Economist', I listen to Radio 4, I read the broadsheets and as a result I do not make ignorant assumptions about other peoples' lifestyle choices!

don't even bother trying goldenbear

Kytti Sun 03-Mar-13 08:09:51

That's horrid. I'm a SAHM and have been now for about 3 years. I worked, I had a great career, but gave it all up because we wanted a parent at home. That's just what we wanted. We dropped our living standards and I learnt to cook meals out of fresh air. smile

I think a lot of the time it's jealousy. I get sick and tired of being asked "what do you want to do when the children are all in full-time school?" I will clean the house and drink a hot coffee! It's very hard to explain the these types of people why you might be happy to be a SAHM in these modern times. I believe many women feel pressured to do it all. I will work again one day, but not right now. We are not very well off, but dh's salary covers everything... just... and it's what we want to do as a couple for our children.

Ooh - that was a bit long. Tell them to sod off, they're being cheeky gits. It's nobody's business but your's and your partner's. So there.

Kytti, I admit to being guilty of asking that question and I am certainly not jealous. However I do admit to not getting that some women wouldactively choose to be a SAHM when all their children are at school. That said, they do, so I'm wrong.

Kytti Sun 03-Mar-13 08:18:39

Oh and *Scottish" I'm a proud HOUSEWIFE. So there. (And the plural of such is 'housewives.' Sorry, I just had to correct, it was making me itch.)

Kytti Sun 03-Mar-13 08:20:22

spb I'm sure one day I'll go mad. lol I do have a plan, I will work again, but for now, I can't keep up with the washing! wink And I'm happy, so all good.

fair enough smile

MarshaBrady Sun 03-Mar-13 08:23:03

Op do they have children?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 03-Mar-13 08:25:50

Agree with HHT.

SpecialAgentKat Sun 03-Mar-13 08:28:02

I strongly agree with this post OP: PurpleMacaroon Sat 02-Mar-13 22:01:56
I do think SAHMs lose the argument the minute they suggest they made a superior choice

Yes I do agree there.

Or suggest something like - why did you even have children if you are going to work?

People do what they have to do and what works for them and I don't comment on anyone's situation or think of them as a better or worse parents for working or staying at home.

IMO that sums up this every bloody week tiresome argument. My thought was maybe did your friend snap at your jokey petrol money comment as you went on to say no one ever says/asks for petrol money? If so, why did you ask? I am genuinely not hostileif that is how it is coming across, I just found that confusing.

My point being maybe (on the petrol thing) that even if you were being jokey, said friend thought you were being unreasonable if it isn't what you usually do, so made a bitchy remark?

Please let me know if I'm way off the mark here. smile

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen Sun 03-Mar-13 08:31:13

I always read SMs posts in the manner of a Haiku. You can inflict a tone on anything.

I don't think Sm is being unpleasant, I think she's nicely telling the op her friends might be wieners.

The op is happy and confident in her choices. That's all the matters. People can't force you to validate your choices, that is information you choose to volunteer.

SpecialAgentKat Sun 03-Mar-13 08:31:13

I didn't feel bad replying "Wonderful isn't it, I get to stay home and bring my own children up instead of farming them out to nursery."

Way to take the high road. Bitchy comments like this only confirm beliefs about us SAHMs.

I was raised by a single mum who 'farmed me out.' So thanks for insulting my mother's parenting skills by comparing myself and other nursery children to livestock... hmm

CalpolInMyEar Sun 03-Mar-13 08:32:46

I had a friend who made regular reference to my baby holiday despite being asked to stop. I too was made redundant (at seven months pregnant) and after some discussion we decided we could comfortably live on DH's salary and I'll go back to work once the DC are in school.

She also tells anyone who'll listen how selfish a friend of hers is for hiring a full time nanny to go back to her career as a barrister when her ML is over.

I don't see her anymore.

SpecialAgentKat Sun 03-Mar-13 08:50:02

Good on you Calpo! Men judge us enough, I'm sick of my fellow gender judging my choices (especially when you don't know someone's circumstance.) For example having twins threw a huge spanner in the works since my DSS who lives with us is SN and we're trying to integrate him back into his real mother's life as she's clean now, and try for eventual 50/50 contact. Then I have to deal with the emotion of "my" little boy being gone 50% of the time. I'm in therapy for that as I raised him almost since birth. (Long, personal story that will out me.)

When I know all three are at school, comfortable, as normal as life ever is, I will return to the job I intended to when my 'one baby' was six months old. Six months turned into six years, possibly seven depending on DSS (Very close to his birth mother, helping her etc.) Being a SAHM isn't the life I envisioned but it's the one I have. I'm happy. I missed my job so I started a small Etsy business DH helps with merely because I'm just not SAHM material, but we needed his salary... So here I am.

I'm no better because I'm home with them any more than my BFF --No I'm NOT too old to have a BFF--grin who has a ridiculously high paying job and innocently embarrasses me on shopping trips. Incidentally, with all her coporate power, she's the first to offer to babysit or help out when I'm unwell/need a break and DH can't be here.

Life is about balance. We all need a vocation we love. Being a SAHM is a vocation. Not mine but how anyone could sneer honestly surprises me.

Goldenbear Sun 03-Mar-13 08:51:18

HotPink, SM's comments are ignorant not unpleasant. She is drawing on lazy stereotypes to denegrate women that don't do it like her and there are enough men out there doing that anyway. Such views IME reinforce the idea that bringing up children is a trivial affair, unimportant business. The 'real' work, that which will benefit society and the economy is to be done in the workplace.

abbyfromoz Sun 03-Mar-13 08:56:48

Bahahaha! Your friends make me laugh! What planet are they living on? Sorry but i openly applaud anyone who can manage to run a household and a job! Being a sahm is a job and in my opinion anything your husband earns is only possible because you are taking care of the stuff behind the scenes- so his money IS your money (and also none of their bloody business). Don't ever feel bad about it. I have friends... Well let's call them 'friends' for conversation sake- he makes her work doing cleaning jobs, babysitting, also one day for my husband in commercial property AS WELL as trying to run her own cake business AND taking care of their 3 dc's with one on the way!!! They think my DH treats me like a princess... Maybe so but he treats her like a slave. I know which i would prefer. The day a man can carry a baby in his 'womb' for 40+ weeks, push it out his penis and then nurture and care for it (to the same standard we do) will be the day you should feel bad about not having a job outside the home- so tell your jealous friends to shut their traps!!!

abbyfromoz Sun 03-Mar-13 09:01:16

Oh forgot to mention he also makes her teach swimming for the school he works at and does nothing (i mean NOTHING) around the home- just complains of being tired all the time and drinks and gambles away any money they have... So you can understand why i don't take his opinion of our status to heart!

AlwaysWashing Sun 03-Mar-13 09:15:01

SpecialAgentKat - take offence if you wish and run with it but if you read my post properly you will note that I said that I made the said comment in a hissy fit because I myself was offended & that it wasn't actually how I saw things AT ALL. My Mother too went out to work & so will I return eventually so no I was not insulting your Mother, mine or the entire race of SAHM.

pinkandred Sun 03-Mar-13 09:15:56

I have been a sahm for nearly 10 years. I have had the odd cheeky comment, particularly at the school gates such as "its alright for some, some of us have to rush off to work". It does annoy me a bit because this particular woman is always boasting about what she has bought, new kitchens, clothes etc and her 70 year old mum collects her children from school each day, feeds them, drops them at clubs and she does this for free (I know this because she has told me).

Now, if I reversed the comments and said "its ok for you, getting your 70 year old mum to provide free childcare whilst you go out to work, not to put food on the table but to treat yourself to new 4x4's and top of the range kitchens" well it just wouldnt be acceptable would it.

But it does seem quite acceptable for people to make the odd jibe about sahm's and its supposed to be taken on the chin because its just banter.

Everyone should be happy with their own choices for their family. IMO anyone who makes comments, digs, jibes about other peoples choices are trying to justify their own choices and if you are totally happy with your choices then why would you feel the need to justify them to other people.

lovetomoan Sun 03-Mar-13 09:18:40

Ignore the comments and get new friends.

pinkandred Sun 03-Mar-13 09:22:18

Oh, and I look after all the money and finances. DH just transfers most of his wages into my a/c .

Pagwatch Sun 03-Mar-13 09:22:34


I saw where you said you were lashing out.
But tbh I think SpecialAgentKats comment is still relevant.

Even if snapped out as a retort, the minute sahms start slagging off WOHMs it just makes things worse. If both 'sides' stopped assuming that sneering at each is ok because something one person has said something rude, the argument would just remain between the belligerent and the generally thick rather than dragging everyone into it.

If someone usually thick says sahms are idle then responding to that by saying 'WOHMs farm their children out' is as stupid as 'your mum is fat' arguments in the playground.
We are not to tribes. I wish people would stop acting as if we are.

pinkandred Sun 03-Mar-13 09:25:14

Agree with Pagwatch

And mums who are truly happy with their choices generally dont snipe about others who have made a different choice, whether that be wohm or sahm.

IMO anyone who makes digs at others are secretly envious.

Goldenbear Sun 03-Mar-13 09:28:04

Yes I agree with pagwatch especially the bit about tribes.

AlwaysWashing Sun 03-Mar-13 09:33:07

pagwatch SpecialAgentKat
Um, ok, you're right blush

Not enough sleep & slightly hormonal here - won't beg but forgive me blush

hate being wrong!

Pagwatch Sun 03-Mar-13 09:37:00

Fucking hell - we don't have to apologise for stuff on here do we! I don't have that kind of time.

You are not 'wrong'. It's just I think it's broader that how we snap things when we are cross, that's all. I have snapped dreadful stuff under pressure.

wonkylegs Sun 03-Mar-13 09:37:07

OP I am in almost identical position to you although the company I worked went bust a month later. It's been difficult especially as a lot of my friends are struggling on two incomes so I find I am careful what I say as in return I feel it can be insensitive to point out that I don't need to work, in order for us to live.
I've had one or two comments and a few people I've just been vague and said I'm freelancing (which technically I have been but it's only been a few small bits of work)
I am planning to set up on my own but not properly until we move/have baby etc.
When people are rude I just bite my tongue and remember I'm very fortunate to be in the position to contribute differently to my family without bringing in actual cash.

sweetkitty Sun 03-Mar-13 09:37:16

I have distanced myself from a friend who used to make these kind if comments. She works 3 days a week and her childcare is provided free by aunts/GPs but if one of them can't do a day she starts moaning about having to take a day off work etc. I got a lot of "we'll its ok for you, you don't need to juggle childcare" to which I'd reply "I can't afford childcare" "we'll I couldn't either if it weren't free"

She would always go on about wishing she could give up work too. Whilst bragging about her new kitchen, bathroom, Florida trips etc.

Yes you could afford to be a SAHM you just don't want to sacrifice you'd lifestyle for it and that's completely fine. But don't give me snide comments.

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen Sun 03-Mar-13 09:46:55


Thanks to one minor typo on your part I now have Frankie Goes to Hollywood Two Tribes ear wormed into my brain.

You utter arse of a woman.

scottishmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 09:48:28

I think instead of thinking up clever put downs to wohm just get on with your stuff
Any Time spent seething at perceived put downs,whether housewife or worker,is wasted time
Having being on receiving end of precious moments quips whilst I find them funny in a predictable way,it doesn't bother all

Most Housewifes aren't jealous of working mums
And most working mums arent jealous of housewifes
Quite simply we all (naturally) believe we are doing right thing and vehemently defend it

So I see some of you think I'm being a meanie about
Reread the thread,tired clichés about working mums jealous of housewifes are bit lame

was it a typo? She meant "tribes" didn't she?

Goldenbear Sun 03-Mar-13 09:52:00

Should you take your own advice SM. I was wondering how long it would be until the 'precious moments' lines would be used.

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen Sun 03-Mar-13 09:52:25

Pag (it's Honeydragon btw, your regular cant we just be nice counterpart on SAHM/WOHM threads wink I know you get cross at name changing)

everlong Sun 03-Mar-13 09:53:50

Only read the OP.
They sound jealous and resentful. And rude.

scottishmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 09:57:03

Bear,it's a thread inviting discussion,see you've contributed have I
Re precious moments,yes it's cliche, used by wag housewifes but makes me laugh
Any comment on assumption workers jealous of housewifes?Or just precious moments

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen Sun 03-Mar-13 09:57:54


We are not to tribes

I wasn't been a pedant or nowt grin, just read the to tribes and BOOM earwormed grin

AlwaysWashing Sun 03-Mar-13 09:59:07



janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 10:09:48

Oh yawn- is this just another way of introducing a WOHM/SAHM thread?

Op- I seriously doubt your friends are jealous- presumably they know you were made redundant, which is not a pleasant situation for anyone to be in.

If you want petrol money for a lift then be a grown up and ask for it, there's nothing worse than people silently seething with resentment but lacking the ability to just ask. However, you add that giving them a lift literally added two minutes or so onto your journey, so I suspect when you mentioned petrol money they thought 'what on earth is she on about?' I would offer petrol money if a friend was taking me somewhere as a specific favour, or if a lift home went more than, say, 5 minutes out of their way, but 2 mins is really nothing, and maybe you came across as a bit resentful yourself?

Timetoask Sun 03-Mar-13 10:15:09

Yes, I have encountered that attitude, albeit not often.
Are you friends the typical ultra-feminist type who think that unless a woman is working she is a lesser being?

Lafaminute Sun 03-Mar-13 10:20:07

The point is that they don't think you are "working" and therefore shouldn't earn/have a share in your dh's income. I have friends the same - I have not learned how to deal with this either except that after ten years I am coming to realise how privilaged I am to be a sahm so don't care so much what they say. My lucky children who have me at home matter more than the slightly bitter attitude of my friends.

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 10:26:00

Haha- I think you're getting the reaction you wanted judging by the sneery posts on here OP!

Pagwatch Sun 03-Mar-13 10:38:05

Hahaha at Frankie ear worm.
I am an utter arse and no mistake but I will regularly arrive here with my 'just be nice' chant

Seriously - Relax <<runs>>

abbyfromoz Sun 03-Mar-13 10:44:17

Janey68... Pretty sure the OP was joking when asking for petrol money...

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 10:46:04

Maybe they were joking back then .....

jojane Sun 03-Mar-13 10:51:03

If they don't have children they probably still keep thie money seperate from their husbands, contributing equally to bills etc, they probably don't realise when you have kids finances get blurry and more combined

jellybeans Sun 03-Mar-13 12:40:45

'I have been a sahm for nearly 10 years. I have had the odd cheeky comment, particularly at the school gates such as "its alright for some, some of us have to rush off to work". It does annoy me a bit because this particular woman is always boasting about what she has bought, new kitchens, clothes etc and her 70 year old mum collects her children from school each day, feeds them, drops them at clubs and she does this for free (I know this because she has told me).

Now, if I reversed the comments and said "its ok for you, getting your 70 year old mum to provide free childcare whilst you go out to work, not to put food on the table but to treat yourself to new 4x4's and top of the range kitchens" well it just wouldnt be acceptable would it. '

Here here pinkandred I too know women like that. One (f/t WOHM) said to me 'I do it all on my own, made my way to the top of a team on my own back'. I smiled but deep down thought,' well you did have your mother looking after your DC from 6am-7pm 5 days a week and every saturday so not quite doing it on your own.' The same women slates SAHP..

jellybeans Sun 03-Mar-13 12:46:28

SM Happy WOHM wouldn't slate SAHP though would they? You also never answer whether SAHD are acceptable more than SAHM. Well know poster on these threads used to state that SAHD was good but SAHM was not, but was akin to prostitution. Are househusbands living a life of drudgery too?

Additionally you keep saying 'precious moments' but when you have been to hell and back to have a child, stillbirths etc then maybe every moment is precious and that is OK? I would say my time with my kids is precious and the most important thing in life. It would be whether i worked or not. Other people may find their careers equally important.

scottishmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 13:02:20

Good grief woman,for someone allegedly happy with your lot that's irascible post

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:05:12

I must say ive never met anyone who feels their career is equally important to their children. I think career is an important aspect of many peoples lives, and certainly not something they give up, but children always come first, certainly among everyone I know, working or not

JenaiMorris Sun 03-Mar-13 13:09:24

Other people may find their careers equally important. No they don't. Unless they're suffering some kind of personality disorder may be.

One of the reasons many (most?) of us work is to give our children better lives and opportunities than we could have done otherwise.

scottishmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 13:09:30

For me career is equally important,not less,not more important equally
I spent time,emotional and physical effort training I like work,it's significant to me
I'm not defined by my job,but I'm not defined by being a parent either.

scottishmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 13:10:59

Psychobabble bingo!personality disorder, oh eyes down might get a house at this rate

JenaiMorris Sun 03-Mar-13 13:20:34

Your career might be as important as time with your children SM, but surely it's not as important as your children themselves?

I dunno, I got the distinct impression that jellybeans was insinuating that our work meant as much to us as our children do. I think it would be an unusual person for whom this was actually true.

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:21:05

Yes I think that personality disorder comment was uncalled for
I suspect SM is in a minority for viewing her career as equally important, BUT there is nothing wrong with being in a minority. And I am sure her children are absolutely fine. I was just making the point that for the majority of people, their children come first whether they have a career or not

Chottie Sun 03-Mar-13 13:21:32

Very rude and quite uncalled for. Some other MNtters have given you some fab comebacks for future comments.

I'm just wondering is there is a little bit of jealousy too? An envy that you don't have to juggle a job with childcare? That you are there for all the 'firsts' and get time to go places and do fun stuff during the working week?

I've been a SATH and a WP and I never had any comments.

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:24:05

Cross posts there jenai! Yes I agree. And if it's true that jellybeans was making that insinuation it would be utterly ridiculous so I hope she wasn't

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:27:00

Maybe chottie... But SAHP don't have the monopoly on fun times you know. Some of us WOHP have fun and interesting times in our work life and in our time off too smile
Is this thread really just a back door attempt to start the old WOHM bashing? If so its rather tired...

weewifey40 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:27:02

I am defined by being a parent.
And very content to say that.
My three children are the core of my being and will be for the rest of my life. They are more important than anything else in my life and always will be.
That doesn't mean I don't have interests, passions, opinions, desires.
Of course I do!
My children don't belong to me. They belong to themselves. And I'll have a full and busy life when they fly the nest. But they'll always be the centre of my universe and I can't imagine them not being so. Nothing in my life will ever be as enriching as motherhood. That doesn't make me a martyr, all consumed by my kids. Not at all. I know my job is to help them become fully formed adults, happy and independent in the world.
I had a somewhat chaotic childhood with a frequently absent (through no fault of her own) Mother and that's why I'm choosing to do things differently.

scottishmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 13:29:35

Is it really so incomprehensible,that not all working mums jealous of housewives?
I have never considered that housewife thinks,gosh wish I was ft work and jealous
I'm not crying into my skinny latte about missing any firsts or precious moments

weewifey40 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:33:42

No, that's fine.
I'm just putting forward the idea that it's actually ok to be defined as a mother.
I am.
It's the single most important achievement in my life, and I've had some high moments in my career. I'm not being smug or mummy martyr. Just saying its ok to be totally fulfilled and defined by motherhood. Just as its fine to be defined by a career. We're all different. Viva that!

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:34:43

Wee wifey- very eloquently put, and i think the point is that many working parents would say exactly the same as you, the only difference being that they also work. Their children are at the core of their lives etc.

Now, if anyone wants to come back and argue against that, it really will begin to look as though they are resentful...

JenaiMorris Sun 03-Mar-13 13:34:59

I used to be quite envious of the parents going off to do yoga (not that I fancy yoga) and have coffee in lovely little cafés after school drop off whilst I seemed to be running around like a blue arsed fly, but that was when I was doing a crap, means to an end job.

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:39:14

Now I love yoga, and do it at evening classes... The thought of coffee shops after the school run leaves me cold though. Think the point is: what floats one persons boat doesn't necessarily mean everyone else is seething with envy at them!

scottishmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 13:39:58

Janey you don't get to impose your subjective rules of interpreting mn posts
You will naturally apply your own subjective pov,but dont pass it off as irrefutable fact
You strongly held opinions are your to hold,but don't globally apply like set rules

scottishmummy Sun 03-Mar-13 13:44:36

My dc are indeed the best thing,up there with career,achievements,and specific circumstances I've borne
I know what the things that have defined and shaped me are, and it includes being parent
But no I am not wholly,or solely defined by being parent. Events,people priorto being mum are significant too

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 13:51:10

Woah- not passing anything off as fact, other than I personally have never met anyone who states that their career is of equal importance to their children. No doubt there are some out there... But I suspect for most parents, If they were asked which was most important, would reply 'my children'

Anyway, this is all hypothetical since we don't have to 'choose' which is most important. As many have pointed out, that doesn't have anything to do with whether one works or not

SpecialAgentKat Sun 03-Mar-13 14:35:22

Can't we all just accept to some women, being a SAHM is their career/vocation?

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 14:52:22

Special agent- I don't think the vast majority do have a problem with a mum (or dad) deciding they don't want to work. The only problem is when some people insinuate that because of that, they must somehow feel their children are more important, or prioritised more highly, than children of WOHP.
I couldn't love my children any more than I do, or place them any more at the core of my life than I already do, if I gave up work. I would feel exactly the same about them, and be instilling the same values etc.

Why can't people just accept that how much you love, care, guide and support your children is an entirely separate issue from whether you work or not?

PurpleMacaroon Sun 03-Mar-13 14:53:15

If you want petrol money for a lift then be a grown up and ask for it, there's nothing worse than people silently seething with resentment but lacking the ability to just ask. However, you add that giving them a lift literally added two minutes or so onto your journey, so I suspect when you mentioned petrol money they thought 'what on earth is she on about?' I would offer petrol money if a friend was taking me somewhere as a specific favour, or if a lift home went more than, say, 5 minutes out of their way, but 2 mins is really nothing, and maybe you came across as a bit resentful yourself?

Please tell me that you're joking? hmm

No-one (well especially not me) is resentful about petrol money, or giving lifts to friends. We all do it and we always share lifts. We all drive and have our own cars.

It was barely a 2 minute drive, which is on my way home anyway. They would have easily walked it in 5 minutes but it was dark so I said I'll drive you home. It was an extremely obvious joke because it was such a ridiculously short journey and they both laughed.

Petrol money and giving lifts is not the issue here.

Gosh it's ridiculous the twisted stories people come up with even when you blatantly lay out the facts to them.

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 14:59:51

So, interesting that when when one of them laughed and said 'don't you mean we owe your husband petrol money!' you didn't take it as an obvious joke, ie- they were responding in exactly the same vein as you....

I really did think that it was a joke back

PurpleMacaroon Sun 03-Mar-13 15:04:24

Because that's taking it to a personal level.

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 15:07:27

Honestly, if I were in that situation I would think it was a quip back. You joked about asking for petrol money after a 2 minute trip, they laughed and joked that should they pay your husband. I would personally NOT be reading into that that my friends wanted to give their jobs up! You seem to be massively over thinking it. And as I said earlier, redundancy is not a pleasant situation for anyone. If they feel anything it would probably be sympathetic to that

PurpleMacaroon Sun 03-Mar-13 15:14:33

I mentioned 2 separate occasions which included the same people.

I also never said they wanted my life or wanted to give up their jobs. Just perhaps they resent my situation - that I am lucky that I can decide whether I want to work or stay at home.

Unfortunately some people don't actually have a choice.

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 15:19:56

I still think you're over thinking it... No doubt they are happy with their choices too.
If you are finding yourself uncomfortable with certain friends though, then maybe time to find some new ones... I have to say in RL I don't come across all these situations where a minor joke results in questioning whether some one is envious of you ...

PurpleMacaroon Sun 03-Mar-13 15:22:35

Well done - that is the reason for posting on aibu. To see whether you are being unreasonable or not.

HiggsBoson Sun 03-Mar-13 15:36:33

I stay at home with DC during the day and then go out to work evenings and weekends because we couldn't get by on DP's salary alone and I need to pay 50% of everything.

It's really harsh and I'd say your friends are probably jealous, because, being totally honest I do really envy the SAHMs I know. To be able to wake in the morning and not worry about bringing in a wage and to be looked after financially must be lovely smile

janey68 Sun 03-Mar-13 15:44:27

Ok then- YANBU to want to find new friends if their quips are offending you (though personally I think you're being a tad over sensitive- I mean, you joked first about petrol money)

However YABU to think that their quip means they are envious of you.

DrCoconut Sun 03-Mar-13 18:42:51

"because, being totally honest I do really envy the SAHMs I know. To be able to wake in the morning and not worry about bringing in a wage and to be looked after financially must be lovely" This really. I would love to be able to take some time off work and know we could still pay the mortgage and bills and feed everyone. sad I don't feel a need to be unpleasant about it but that wish is there, I'm really tired juggling everything at the moment and need a break.

LineRunner Sun 03-Mar-13 18:48:30

Actually, I want to take some time off work, but I don't want to be a SAHM either.

mylittlepuds Sun 03-Mar-13 20:03:12

Being a SAHM around my neck of the woods is seen as a bit posh.

Really? I don't get that. And I don't understand the "not having to worry about bringing in a wage" thing either. I suppose my pov is that adults work. Sahm to me is what you actively choose to be - its not the norm (if you see what I mean) and it's certainly not a status thing (either way). Wonder if it's a regional thing.

Though I think my in laws are a bit put out that I work with children. I wonder if that's why. My own parents would expect me to work, they'd have been supportive if I'd decided not to, but it would have beena surprise. I work for the same reasons as Dh does.

mylittlepuds Sun 03-Mar-13 20:15:36

Might be regional? I suppose it means your husband's wage is generous enough to mean you don't need to work? Having a year off on mat leave is also seen as well to do here though.

JenaiMorris Sun 03-Mar-13 20:27:40

Unless you bought a house before about 1995 or have a partner on a massive salary, both partners have to work round here.

Permanentlyexhausted Sun 03-Mar-13 22:14:49

Oh good grief! Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

The OP made a 'jokey' comment about asking her friends to pay for petrol. The friend then made what was probably meant to be a jokey comment back. OP decides it must be a criticism of her current situation.

If you can't take it, don't give it out!

SpecialAgentKat Sun 03-Mar-13 23:27:41

Okay now I do think this is just another way to start a SAHM vs WOHM debate. Well done.

I'm a SAHM through surprise circumstance as I posted up thread, it's not my personal vocation like some posters here. I will return to my career when I can.

I'll never understand why anyone cares what other people do for a living. Whether that means their job is at home or there job is out of the home. confused I'm double confusedconfused as to why so many people (not necessarily this thread) are convinced the other is envious or bitter. Some people probably are, but most people are most likely happy and content with their choices, or accept their circumstances with grace.

mylittlepuds Mon 04-Mar-13 07:23:46

Agree with Special. I might give other people's circumstances a fleeting thought but that's all. Much more concerned about my choices.

janey68 Mon 04-Mar-13 07:28:36

Absolutely; I doubt most people who are content with their life would analyse throwaway comments and read all sorts of things into them. I also agree that this is probably yet another way of dragging up the WOHM SAHM thing by the back door.

nooka Mon 04-Mar-13 08:07:27

I've never understood why people come to the conclusion that people who comment on other people's lifestyles must be jealous. Personally I try not to go around making digs at other people, but when I have it wasn't because I had some huge desire to be like them in some way. I've had a few (not many) catty comments made to me by SAHP and have never for a moment thought that maybe they wanted to work full time like me. The only reason I might have played that particular piece of mental gymnastics would be if I was convinced that my choice was the best choice for everyone, which it quite clearly is not.

Personally I would be very surprised if a friend of mine who had recently been made redundant was taking a bit of a holiday (and making nothing of it) as I'd see that as something you do when you have lots of spare money floating about. I don't think it's especially surprising to think that perhaps it was a gift from a working dh (although I'd still be a bit surprised).

wordfactory Mon 04-Mar-13 08:39:04

I do think the retort that people must be jealous is the preserve of the unimaginative or the deluded.

Like the parents who tell their fat child that she is being teased because the other children are jealous.

abbyfromoz Mon 04-Mar-13 14:55:51

You're comparing a fat child to a sahm? I actually think some people may be jealous especially if they feel they work out of necessity not choice.
Just as some sahm are envious of people who get to resume their careers.... Not saying one is better than the other and but some people feel jibbed especially hen they are struggling with the circumstances they find themselves in...just look at some of the posts on here regarding cost of childcare and people's different circumstances...loads of people feel they don't have the right work/life balance. the grass always seems greener yadda yadda...

wordfactory Mon 04-Mar-13 16:18:29

No I'm not comparing a SAHM to a fat child.

Pagwatch Mon 04-Mar-13 16:50:00

In certain lights I look quite like a fat child.

LineRunner Mon 04-Mar-13 16:52:20

Fat hag here.

Pagwatch Mon 04-Mar-13 16:59:11

<well jell>

(I can't do that can I?)

LineRunner Mon 04-Mar-13 17:02:19

Everyone's jealous of me and my triple creme egg box rating.

Pagwatch Mon 04-Mar-13 17:14:31

I am sitting here eating crime eggs. I want to be totally round. I want to be a sahsphere.

LineRunner Mon 04-Mar-13 17:23:50

If I were a SAHM I would have no discipline.

FitzgeraldProtagonist Mon 04-Mar-13 17:34:47

I work PT days and nights and weekends. My dream is:

3/4 days a week. Start at 9. Less than hour commute. Finish 5pm.

Limited unsocial hours. (2-3 days a month)

With consistent childcare rather than haphazard arrangement of 6 different providers. Yet, nothing.

I am Jealous of SAHMs in a way. But only bec I wish the escape of work was more easy to sort out.

JenaiMorris Mon 04-Mar-13 17:35:17

I dread to think what a crime egg is shock

LineRunner Mon 04-Mar-13 17:38:22

Crack a crime egg grin

BlackMaryJanes Mon 04-Mar-13 17:41:19

Food for thought: How do WOHPs rationalise their claim that they 'love their kids just as much' with the evidence which shows that children with a SAHP generally fare better?

For sake of clarity, I'm aiming this question at those who choose to work, rather than those who have to.

JenaiMorris Mon 04-Mar-13 17:45:40

What evidence is that, MaryJane?

Even if you can find some, it wouldn't demonstrate that the poor, poor children of working folk are less loved, would it?

BlackMaryJanes Mon 04-Mar-13 17:54:58

Theoretically speaking, if you loved your kids, would you want them to be at a disadvantage?

LineRunner Mon 04-Mar-13 17:59:09

Could you link to that published peer-reviewed study please, MaryJane?

JenaiMorris Mon 04-Mar-13 17:59:34

You weigh up the pros and cons.

You cannot say that the children of working parents are disadvantaged without defining disadvantage, for a start.

wordfactory Mon 04-Mar-13 18:01:16

There isn't any evidence of that is there?

In fact, the evidence shows that DC from wealthier backgrounds fare better then their poorer peers, so you might say that by having less money coming in by having a SAHP is somehting you'd only do if you didn't love your DC...

janey68 Mon 04-Mar-13 18:38:27

Could you Link please to that evidence please blackmaryjane

janey68 Mon 04-Mar-13 18:55:44

That'll be a no then blackmaryjanes ....

Pagwatch Mon 04-Mar-13 18:57:51

Children brought up by sahms turn to crime eggs. It's true.

ATouchOfStuffing Mon 04-Mar-13 19:03:47

You have to laugh at their small mindedness. I am a single SAHM and I get a lot of people assuming I must have a rich husband to be able to do this as I am not on benefits. People react very differently to me when they see I am not married or with a b.f etc. You just have to get on with it knowing that you can look after yourself and if they don't see that then it really doesn't affect you in the slightest.

JenaiMorris Mon 04-Mar-13 19:10:51

Poor, poor crime egg children.

If only their mothers loved them less sad


There can be no conclusive evidence either way, can there? In our circumstances, the outcome (if you can even define it) is probably better with me working. If my son had additional needs that school couldn't meet it and we couldn't buy in, the situation might be different.

And when are we measuring these outcomes? At 11? 16? 25? Bar tragedy befalling us, our children are around for far longer than the baby and toddler years.

wordfactory Mon 04-Mar-13 20:00:59

Oh those crime egg children. Think of the disadvantage they face...what with only being seasonal.

They fare so much worse than the year round confectionary children.

In fact the only children with worse outcomes are the selection box children sad.

Pagwatch Mon 04-Mar-13 20:02:43

Its a modern day tragedy.
<wrings hands>>
<<squishes egg>>

wordfactory Mon 04-Mar-13 20:04:50

I think pag you might find a chocolate orange a little more robust.

JenaiMorris Mon 04-Mar-13 20:15:24

There's a shit, pseudo-science article in this for sure.

Crime egg children - overwhelmed by their mothers' love, drowning in maternal attention. Their only escape is a dark, Easter-themed criminal underbelly.

Non-seasonal confectionery children - well rounded sorts who can handle most eventualities.

Selection box children - looked after by childminders, nannies, relatives and day orphanages. Sometimes they have to let themselves in after school <sobs>

Pagwatch Mon 04-Mar-13 20:18:10

grin and [weeps]

SpecialAgentKat Mon 04-Mar-13 20:23:58

Wheezing with laughter here!

My crime egg twins are sharpening their dummies razors as I type hiding in the corner...

LineRunner Mon 04-Mar-13 20:59:43

Mine are selection box kids, left with the dregs, the Skittles of my attention.

Oh pagwatch, you're just a chocolate coating short of a picnic

monkeynuts123 Mon 04-Mar-13 21:21:56

Oh dear another bitchfest breaks out. Ignore them OP they nearly stuck my head on a stick for asking less. Meh

scottishmummy Mon 04-Mar-13 21:31:37

I digress I hate the word bitchfest,it's so demeaning
So women vociferously debate subject and they are bitches?not good
It demeans women's opinions,or fierce debate as bitchy and somehow trivial

JenaiMorris Mon 04-Mar-13 21:44:51

Skittle kids. Poor Skittens sad

LineRunner Mon 04-Mar-13 21:52:55


My kids are older now.

They are Skiteens.

JenaiMorris Mon 04-Mar-13 22:00:30
JenaiMorris Mon 04-Mar-13 22:04:08

monkey this hasn't been a bitchfest really, has it?

Basically we're all pretty much in agreement that our children seem fine, regardless of our employment choices. One or two seem a little oversensitive but that's always the case with subjects like these.

Kytti Tue 05-Mar-13 00:18:08

I'm quite amazed scottishmummy has a job at all, never mind a career. Your English skill are shockingly bad! (Snorts.)

Mimishimi Tue 05-Mar-13 00:44:26

Weirdly enough IME it's always those who are first to come out with snide remarks who are also first to ask for my help if some childcare emergency comes up. And weirdly enough, it has nothing to do with working status, if you just work less hours than them you are equally the butt of their jokes and also perceived as free backup care. Thankfully those sort are few and far between though. Once had one man openly turn his back on me at a party, in front of others, when he learned I was taking time off to care for my six month old confused. We were mid convo and as soon as that ame up, he just walked right off. He got drunk and verbally abusive that night though so it was generally accepted he was just a jerk.

janey68 Tue 05-Mar-13 07:12:56

Then that guy was a knob mimishimi. Just as The poster a few posts back who claimed WOHP don't love their children as much and apparently she has 'evidence' to prove it, is also a knob

chubbymomie2012 Tue 05-Mar-13 07:33:18

i worked full time with my first two babies butnwhen 3 and 4 came along we decided it would be easier and less stressfull all round for me to stay ay home andncare for them all. The majority of my pals work and infact thats how i knew them theybare fine and openlynadmit they would love to be off but circumstances prevent that from happening. like the previous poster I find men the worst. The automaticallynassume because u stay at home u have no brain and nothing to contribute to any conversation!!!

janey68 Tue 05-Mar-13 07:40:26

Going back to the OP, I also wish people
Would realise that it's perfectly normal for everyone to sometimes have 'grass is greener' moments, without it meaning they envy someone elses life. Sure, when it's cold grey pissing down with rain morning, there are times when i wish I could drop the kids at school and return to bed, rather than do a days work. Do I want that enough to give up my job? Of course not.

JenaiMorris Tue 05-Mar-13 07:57:15

^ IME it's always those who are first to come out with snide remarks who are also first to ask for my help if some childcare emergency comes up^

I have two explanations for this. These are the ones who find organising childcare the hardest - no family nearby, variable hours, prohibitive cost etc. It's not surprising they feel at least a bit of envy towards SAHPs, although that doesn't excuse snide remarks.

Or, they're not very nice, in which case if it wasn't employment status it'd be the state of your house or something else that had nothing to do with them that they'd be making comments about.

Or actually I have a third, which is that people find offence far too easily and see slights in the most benign of conversations.

sweetkitty Tue 05-Mar-13 12:51:46

I had this this morning again, I was dropping DD3 off at nursery and thing DS to toddlers and had made cakes for them "lucky for you I'm off to work" was the comment.

Yes I am lucky to have the morning with DS but there's a trade off.

The person who said this has full time childcare from her in laws and parents, she has 2 holidays abroad every year, lovely house, 2 new cars, designers clothes etc. that's why you work and that's fair enough we all make out choices.

I don't shout after her "well I don't have free childcare and I sacrifice a lot of material things so I can stay at home" because its my choice.

I often wonder how its acceptable for her to say it but not me confused

JenaiMorris Tue 05-Mar-13 13:21:36

I doubt she was being snide or resentful, it's just smalltalk. If anything it's an attempt at solidarity -

I'm quite sure someone at some point said something to me like "I'm going to go and mop my floor <sigh>." and I knew they were overplaying their workaday misery as I did when I said "gotta run, late for work <sigh>"

People are far too quick to find offence, really they are.

scottishmummy Tue 05-Mar-13 19:35:29

I'd say you're over thinking the lucky you,it's a standard social phrase

JenaiMorris Tue 05-Mar-13 20:11:56


LauraPashley Tue 05-Mar-13 20:31:00

WOHM here, I am massively jealous of SAHMs! I have no issue with saying it, I would say it was my life's ambition at the moment! No interest in working, cry on my way to work most mornings at leaving my kids behind. Hate every moment I am away from them.

I find this quote from above ridiculous:
I'm just putting forward the idea that it's actually ok to be defined as a mother.
I am.
It's the single most important achievement in my life, and I've had some high moments in my career. I'm not being smug or mummy martyr. Just saying its ok to be totally fulfilled and defined by motherhood

Do you mean you are only allowed to feel that way if you stay at home with them? That's quite a dig.

janey68 Tue 05-Mar-13 20:37:35

I think that's precisely what that poster meant- because a minority (and I stress it is a minority) of people who do seem to believe that if you work, you cant totally adore parenthood as well. It's such a narrow view. I couldn't love my children any more than I do. If I stopped working I wouldn't suddenly love them more!

LauraPashley Tue 05-Mar-13 22:22:00

Yeah sadly I think that is what she meant too sad

weewifey40 Wed 06-Mar-13 19:28:07

Laura, I made that statement.
If you were offended by it, that's your misinterpretation of my words.
I didn't mean any offence at all. I was reacting to the many comments suggesting or implying that a woman should not be defined by being a mother, and simply saying that it is actually ok to be defined by it. Why the hell not?

weewifey40 Wed 06-Mar-13 19:32:27

and I was saying how I feel.
Just as many wohm's like to continually tell us how they feel and how they couldn't be defined by motherdom, that housewifery is boring drudgery with no economic productivity etc..repeat to fade etc.. surely you understand that if its ok for a wohm to express why she couldn't be a sahm and what fulfills her, it's ok for a sahm to do the same???

weewifey40 Wed 06-Mar-13 19:36:09

but thanks for telling me what I actually meant.

LauraPashley Wed 06-Mar-13 21:40:52


Can you see how it would potentially offend a whole load of WOHMs though? I agree with what you said and feel the same way, but I also have to work! Working doesn't cancel out my opportunity to be fulfilled by motherhood! Working pays the bills, doesn't do anything for my heart and soul!

weewifey40 Wed 06-Mar-13 21:48:55

but I didn't say what you think I said.
I said it was ok to be defined by motherhood.
I didn't say that this is exclusive to sahm's.
I felt the same way when I was a wohm.
Perhaps I'm not the touchy one?!

working9while5 Wed 06-Mar-13 21:59:18

I agree with weewifey40. Don't think I will ever be an SAHM but I think there is a peculiar antifeminism in the "oh I couldn't do it, I would be so bored; I couldn't cope with the drudgery" etc, etc...

I am actually at this strange crossroads in my life where I have been utterly defined by my work forever and now I know that I would rather be with my kids. It's not going to happen, it doesn't mean I won't get some fulfilment from work and that won't have its own benefits, but why on God's earth is it a "dig" to WOHM to say that it is okay to be defined by being a mother? The vast majority of people think it's okay to define themselves and others by their jobs, don't they? "What do you do?" is such a standard question and many people when unemployed sink into deep depression as they can feel as though they have dropped off the face of the earth!

There is so little support for women wanting to be with their kids, it's untrue.

LauraPashley Wed 06-Mar-13 22:13:38

See I have never felt defined by my job, have never really understood that, so maybe that is why I read it differently. Also within the context of this thread weewifey, although people are trying hard not to let it become SAHM v WOHM, any "pro-SAHM" comment comes over as "anti-WOHM"! Perhaps I am touchy, I'm certainly sick of people (yes, mainly SAHMs I'm afraid to say), presuming that my children are not as important to me as theirs are to them. That if I really valued them I'd stay at home with them.

LauraPashley Wed 06-Mar-13 22:15:46

Btw I understand now that you have clarified it, that you didn't mean that feeling the way you do is only possible if you don't work. But there are plenty of people out there who won't agree with you unfortunately!

working9while5 Wed 06-Mar-13 22:29:17

Laura, does me saying that I have been defined by my job make you feel like less of a worker?

freedom2011 Wed 06-Mar-13 22:37:56

Choosing or taking a different path to others will sometimes incite comment from those who do not have your grace and good manners purple. The appropriate response to your trip to Berlin would have been 'How lovely. Have a great time' not a comment on your finances.
I was unemployed for over a year. I got some unbelievable comments and questions about this. How we organised ourselves was nobody's business except mine and my husband's. Smile and ignore OP. You don't have to justify your family's choices.

LauraPashley Wed 06-Mar-13 23:17:30

Hmmm I don't think so working, it just makes me feel like a different kind of worker!

Freedom2011 I think the fact is that not many people are 100% confident with their decisions of situations. I work, feel guilty, envy SAHMs. My SAHM friends often express a regret that they feel boring or are wasting qualifications etc. a friend who is very successful and works longer hours envies me my shorter hours. Grass is always greener and all that...

working9while5 Thu 07-Mar-13 09:08:00

and you should feel the same about how your choices "reflect" you as a mother. Just different.

The bottom line for me is there are few, if any, men discussing this issue of childcare and who provides it as women do.

I will be honest. I really think that children should be taken care of by loving family members and not spend their early years in paid care. I just can't offer that, sadly. I was taken care of by my grandmother until I went to school and so my mother had the security of having me cared for by someone who loved me and could develop her career. I have to use paid childcare and as a result, I don't feel I can work full-time. Yet my husband, who similarly believes in family care having been brought up on a farm where everyone cared for him as they had that flexibility, doesn't prevaricate or pontificate on this issue. He just sees it as the way things are.

I think women generally make decisions based on their personal circumstance and beliefs; most men just follow what women choose (even in this day and age). As more women earn less, it is nearly always seen as a woman's "choice" when it rarely is so free. I would love to be in a position to split childcare equally with dh or have other family take care of the kids but so few people have this. So do I resent SAHMs? No, because that wouldn't be my choice.... but I can feel serious jealousy about people who are living my dream!

LauraPashley Thu 07-Mar-13 10:54:01

I think the distinction between jealousy and resentment is very important- I am guilty of leaning towards the latter which is not healthy!

Also, when you mention men... I also need to reconcile the fact that the parent doesn't have to be the mother- I am lucky to have a present, hands on, shift working DH who does the bulk of the childcare while I am at work. The children are looked after either by me, dh, 1 day at an amazing cm, or occasionally a granny. It is my guilt about not being with them that is at play.

working9while5 Thu 07-Mar-13 11:38:39

I found this book in our local library Laura towards the end of my last maternity and there's a lot of discussion about the complicated feelings women have about this.

I am jealous of your situation! grin

lrichmondgabber Thu 07-Mar-13 11:45:29

SAHMs do a good job. Ignore crits

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