To be a little sad we can only afford one child

(155 Posts)
filibear Fri 01-Mar-13 20:18:30

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FannyFifer Fri 01-Mar-13 20:20:27

Didn't find having a second child more expensive, had most of the equipment like buggy etc.

filibear Fri 01-Mar-13 20:21:17

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BegoniaBampot Fri 01-Mar-13 20:22:33

Childcare is one thing but do you need a bigger house?

BabsAndTheRu Fri 01-Mar-13 20:22:42

Yep, no worse of financially with the three we have than when it was just one.

lisad123everybodydancenow Fri 01-Mar-13 20:23:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Could one of you stay at home? MY DP is packing in work to look after DD when I go back to work. I don't earn a lot, but literally just enough. We've got rid of lots of things to be able to do this. It's amazing how much you can cut your cloth accordingly.

I can't see how 2 is any more expensive than one've got all the stuff you need from the first one? First one would be on same food as no diff really in food costs? Two children can share same room...

noisytoys Fri 01-Mar-13 20:24:02

Me, DH and 2 DDs live in a gardenless 1.5 bed flat. DDs have a bunk bed in their room that is it. We decluttered like mad and don't have anything we don't need. It's great. Also 2 DDs were no more expensive than 1 smile

thezebrawearspurple Fri 01-Mar-13 20:24:03

An extra child won't be large enough to require a bigger house, bedrooms can always be shared.

sannaville Fri 01-Mar-13 20:24:47

It's more when they get older and have expensive hobbies that sets you back I think. Not too bad when they're younger

mrsjay Fri 01-Mar-13 20:25:04

leave a gap so 1 is at school before you have another and why would you need to move house to have another child ?

hiddenhome Fri 01-Mar-13 20:25:11

Could you have your attic converted to create an extra bedroom? It's a shame that you can't afford another child if you'd really like one.

mrsjay Fri 01-Mar-13 20:26:29

you dont need to pamper to expensive hobbies they pick a 'thing' each children dont need expensive hobbies to be happy ime,

TheWheelies Fri 01-Mar-13 20:26:52

Focus on what you have! There you go. ( you did ask!)

Sounds like you've been through an awful lot, so I hope it starts to get lots easier for you from now on. That must have been really tough.

BrainDeadMama Fri 01-Mar-13 20:27:02

We don't have much money (although do work) and didn't see this as a reason not to have 2 kiddies.

3 on the other hand...

Do you want another child, deep down? Does your partner?

Imsosorryalan Fri 01-Mar-13 20:29:26

I think you'll regret not having another if you really want another. Our two share a bedroom and I'm a very poor SAHM!
Friends of ours have 3 dcs under 4 in a 2 bed flat with no garden and on the 3rd floor! They not only manage but are happy!

Crikeyblimey Fri 01-Mar-13 20:29:27

We took the decisi

PenguinBear Fri 01-Mar-13 20:29:44

Please don't let the money put you off! If you want a second dc for it. You've probably still got all your baby stuff from
DS and they could share a room till they're about 11/12!

Belugagrad Fri 01-Mar-13 20:30:29

Filibear, your post really spoke to me. My dd is 18 months and we can't afford another. Our flat is too small, we have a large debt and can't afford to move. I'd love another but we'd need to win the lottery. It makes
Me very sad. I don't have any advice really. Sorry. I just try and be grateful for my lot as I am very lucky. Nows a bad time as all my friends are having number 2, in sure it will get easier.

countrykitten Fri 01-Mar-13 20:30:52

Sorry I am going to be deeply U now but I hate the word 'kiddies'. There said it.

OP - are there ways you could make it work if you followed some of the good advice above? Is it what you both really want?

BabsAndTheRu Fri 01-Mar-13 20:31:26

Why do you need a bigger house? We have a 3 bed semi, DS1 and DS2 share a room and DD has her own room. I'm on a career break just now as my full wage would have gone on childcare. Hoping to go back in the summer to work weekends, so will actually be better off as no money going on childcare as DP will be there. Things are tight and you have to budget but wouldn't change a thing, we are so happy our wee team, and you know that things get better as they get older as you can do more hours.

filibear Fri 01-Mar-13 20:32:08

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filibear Fri 01-Mar-13 20:34:02

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Crikeyblimey Fri 01-Mar-13 20:34:37

We took the decision to only have one for financial reasons (plus my age and the fact it had taken a long time to get ds in the first place). It made me very sad for a while.

However, it WAS a decision and now I have accepted it. We have good holidays, room to spread out, never have to say no to cub camp, music lessons, school trips etc.

I know a sibling would possibly have enhanced ds's life but there are no guarantees either way.

It really is a decision both of you have to come to though or it will hurt for a long time.

My advice is, talk talk talk and talk some more. That way, when you do decide (either way) it will be the right decision.

OP could you not just take a career break and re-train? I'm on my third career smile If you really really want another child, don't let work (which is, let's face it, only there to pay the bills!) stand in your way. It would be awful for you to put work first and then they don't put you first! (sorry, speaking as someone who's experienced redundancy...I now place work firmly behind family in terms of priorities!)

You have 3 bedrooms, albeit new build, but fail to see how just 2 of you and a small child have that much stuff! De-clutter, very therapeutic! Surround yourself with only things you need and love grin

Ragwort Fri 01-Mar-13 20:36:52

If you have really decided that you cannot afford another one then I would agree, focus on your one lovely child, rather than what you haven't got. We have an only child (by choice, to be honest we could afford more) but we love having an only child, we can focus entirely on him, enjoy activities, do things together etc etc - we make sure he has plenty of other children to socialise with. Be positive, there are lots of good points to having an 'only' child.

Belugagrad Fri 01-Mar-13 20:39:35

Thanks for your post crikeysmile

Loving the syndicate idea filibear!

Belugagrad Fri 01-Mar-13 20:42:50

Ragwort, great post smile

Good for you though, difficult decision to make, but so many people have children they can't afford.

CatsRule Fri 01-Mar-13 20:52:13

I can sympathise...we can't afford another either, not right now anyway.

Ds is 1 tomorrow and I would have liked a smallish age gap if we were able to have another but I have to accept that won't happen. We have a small 2 bed new build style house, ds's room is tiny, it wouldn't fit a double bed it is really small, and to add to that we don't have cupboard space or loft space. We would need to move!

To afford the childcare, waiting until ds was in school would be our only option. The problem with that would be my age and his age to share a tiny room with a 5 year age gap, with bigger difficulties if we had a girl sharing with him...hence why we would need to move.

It's a difficult one and having a sister and bil who can't have children makes me realise how lucky I am to have at least 1 dc but it doesn't stop me wanting another!

I feel for you and yoy don't want regrets.

KirstyJC Fri 01-Mar-13 20:59:27

We had a gap of 5 years between the first and second, and that really helped with keeping the costs down as the first was not in childcare by the time the second came along. The year off work on Maternity leave meant it was coming up to the second year of school before we needed any childcare for DS1 at all, and that was only out of hours club and holiday club, both of which were loads cheaper than nursery had been. And while DS1 was at school DS2 and I had the whole day to ourselves, so I didn't need to share him and he got lots of 1 one 1 Mummy time

Is a second child an option for you if you leave a longer gap, so it would be cheaper?

Oh, and kids LOVE sharing a room. Even 5 years apart, they loved sharing. DS1 did 'shows' for DS2, by dancing on his bed and singing. It was lovely! They were upset when we moved and they had separate rooms.

(Although we did go on to have DS3 as well......seemed like a good idea at the time....)

bluer Fri 01-Mar-13 21:05:08

I think we'll only have one! We have a lovely house but our mortgage is such that we will both have to work. That's our choice etc. I will have a year off and go part time after but that's only because we've been able to save a substantial sum. Once that's gone we'll not be able to save a similar amount before i'm of an age where getting pregnant is more difficult etc. we have no family who can do childcare so we'd be looking at around eight hundred per child a month. We simply can afford one but not two.
Fwiw i'm happy with this...we'll be able to be financially comfortable, will be able to give one child the life and opportunities it deserves. The people who say two costs the same as one and why don't you give up work obviously don't get that childcare is expensive and not every couple can make do with one salary.

mrsjay Fri 01-Mar-13 21:06:32

cats your son is just a baby who knows how you will feel in a few years time,

4ys 10 months between mine and they share a room it can be done ime

MyDarlingClementine Fri 01-Mar-13 21:13:35

My dd has been v v lonley and Its broken my heart to see how lonley she has been and her looking at other children with siblings etc was hard.

We have had another and we have less incoming now than when DD1 was born and we have managed absolutly fine.
She has been overwhelmed to get a sibling, a few days later she said in a low voice, " MUmmy, thank you for x".

VivaLeBeaver Fri 01-Mar-13 21:14:39

We couldn't afford another and then by the time we could I decided the age gap would be too big.

To be honest if we had had two we wouldn't be able to afford the lifestyle we have now. Just everything from days out, weekly food bills, holidays would be more money.

We couldn't have afforded the childcare for two. And like you Filibear we'd have needed to move house.

I am a bit sad we only have one but me and dd are very close which is nice.

mrsjay Fri 01-Mar-13 21:15:10

She has been overwhelmed to get a sibling, a few days later she said in a low voice, " MUmmy, thank you for x".

Aww bless her that is lovely smile <welling up>

Phineyj Fri 01-Mar-13 21:20:16

Don't do it just because you think they'll appreciate the sibling -- for everyone I can think of who adores their brother(s) or sister(s) I can think of several who can't stand them!

MyDarlingClementine Fri 01-Mar-13 21:24:48


But on the other hand dont not do it because they might not get on.

Alligatorpie Fri 01-Mar-13 21:27:43

We waited until dd1 was in school before having another. We couldnt afford childcare for 2 or we would have had a smaller age gap. I was 40 when dd2 was born and was a bit concerned about my age, but everything was been fine.
Dd1 says she cant wait for dd2 to sleep through the night, so they can share a room.

blacktaildog Fri 01-Mar-13 21:28:33

i would have one more anyway if i wanted another, you will find a way money wise

duende Fri 01-Mar-13 21:29:03

We couldn't afford to have two in full time childcare and we couldn't afford for either of us to quit work. But I was really sad thinking hat DS would be an only (I know it's the right decision for some families and I know plenty of only children are happy etc, etc). We decided to go for a bigger gap - there will be 4 years between our two, DS will be starting school when I'm on mat leave. I'm 18 weeks pregnant now and sooo pleased we made that decision.

1991all Fri 01-Mar-13 21:33:15

I would never let this be a reason not to have another child, unless you were literally homeless or penniless

Viviennemary Fri 01-Mar-13 21:38:54

Unless you have huge childminding bills, I don't think a second child costs that much more for the first few years anyway. Until they start demanding designer trainers and I-pads and the like and you can always say no! I'm an only one and always said I wouldn't have just one child if I could possibly help it. But it's up to everyone to decide for themselves. Some folk love being only children.

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 21:43:08

Why can't you afford more than one child? Because you'd have to sacrifice your current lifestyle, is that it? I thought I would never have more than one child because I couldn't bear to go through pregnancy or labour again, I mean I was terrified. But in the end I realised I also couldn't bear for DS to grow up alone, and that was worse. The financial side of things was not a consideration, and we do not have a lot of money.

However I guess everyone has their own priorities. I would not choose to have a third. I am blessed with two healthy children, and a third is too much of a risk in all kinds of ways.

GinghamChic Fri 01-Mar-13 21:52:44

How can so many of you be saying that 2 is not more so is!!
2 x...
Childcare in the early years...a killer
Then 2 x....
School dinners, swimming lessons, football, dancing, shoes, school trips, Christmas presents...need u go on?

We couldn't afford 3, knowing how much of a jump going from 1 to 2 is...shock

Fridgedooropen Fri 01-Mar-13 21:58:55

I'm quite encouraged by all the posts saying 2 is more affordable than it might seem. I would like a second and we were going to go for it a little while ago and then a few things went wrong and our income plummetted so it's on hold. However, our plan was for a gap so that DC1 will be in school and so we would only be back to paying one lot of childcare fees. Still have buggy etc. We also have the room so am definitely tempted if things stabilise in the next few months.

However, OP, what I would also say is that I am an only child myself and had a great childhood. So if you decide it will just be one DC for you, then I know you will have to come to terms with that on your own account but don't feel bad for your DC - there are so many upsides to one child and I truly had an idyllic time of it.

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 22:00:53

It can be more expensive yes, it depends on the decisions you make. But there is more to life than money and if you can afford one you can find a way to afford two. No one should feel they can't give their child a sibling because of money. If the OP feels like she's being dutiful to society in some way, then I think she could quite rightfully tell society to piss off.

Trills Fri 01-Mar-13 22:02:04

"A little sibling for DS" is not a good reason to have a child.

Siblings don't necessarily enhance each others' lives.

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 22:02:15

I would also say that having struggled and struggled to have one, the concept of planning a child, on financial terms or otherwise, is totally alien to me. DD was a happy accident that we kind of wished for but never thought would happen.

MyDarlingClementine Fri 01-Mar-13 22:04:12

Siblings don't necessarily enhance each others' lives.

But siblings dont necessarily not enhance each others lives either.

And when they do get on and love each other, and support each other, and have children, and help each other through life - what price can you put on that?

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 22:05:28

DD was no. 2. Trills - I totally disagree. Our family is complete now we have two. DS is so much happier, they have shared experiences, they play together, they learn together, it is wonderful. I don't understand how it could be better for a child be on their own, although I suppose if there are other relatives that might make up for it. DS has no cousins, for example.

Iggly Fri 01-Mar-13 22:05:49

I know more people who get on with siblings than don't.

We've got two close in age and boy it's tough financially. If we were worse off, we'd have waited for a bigger gap.

You have three bedrooms?! You must have loads of stuff!

Trills Fri 01-Mar-13 22:07:35

You should want another child because you want one, not because you think it might be nice for your DS.

Lorialet Fri 01-Mar-13 22:09:04

YANBU. DS is 9 now and I'm 43 so don't think I'll be having any more. Would have liked another if I hadn't had to worry about the money side of things, but have my own business and mortgage to pay.

Figgygal Fri 01-Mar-13 22:10:41

We are in same boat we have a small 3 bed house ds 14mo is in bedroom 2 and dh works in bedroom 3 we cant afford another house i worry about affording another dc and we earn more than £50k between us. i don't know how people do it I'm unwilling to get into debt and should b in a good position to have another but ...........

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 22:15:07

Trills - what's good for DS and what I want tend to be the same thing. Is that not so with every parent?

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 22:17:54

I can also see how having just one could be MORE, or at least equally expensive. Certainly if it was me I would feel the need to DO more with him - things that cost money - and buy more for him to offset the fact he has no one to play with. So I think perhaps having two saves us as much as it costs.

Sarahplane Fri 01-Mar-13 22:21:40

we waited until dd was at school before trying for another because we couldn't afford the huge nursery costs for two.

I can also see how having just one could be MORE, or at least equally expensive. Certainly if it was me I would feel the need to DO more with him - things that cost money - and buy more for him to offset the fact he has no one to play with. So I think perhaps having two saves us as much as it costs.

Think this actually makes quite a bit of sense. Also saves you time and energy when you can ignore leave them to play together

OhMerGerd Fri 01-Mar-13 22:25:21

We have 6.7 yr gap. DD1 begged for a bro/sis. DDs have always got on are v close. Food, clothes, toys, activities, holidays etc are not the challenge. It's childcare. But it depends on what you want the most. Family or consumer goods. We were in private rented until DD2 was 5 started school and DH could get back to work(SAHD was the best option for us).So yes it costs(we do not get any benefits apart from family allowance) and yes, it will take us many many years (until/after retirement) to pay things off but 2 is hardly irresponsible if we had fallen on hard times. With the gap it was doable,and oh the JOY ohague family dynamic. Of course we could have had swapped the tent for hotel holidays, the carrier bags for mulberry and sagging boobies of have benefitted from some expensive uplift surgery BUT oh the joy!
Oh ...the absolute joy! If its what you both really want think about the compromises put them into action and go for it!

LittleBoxes Fri 01-Mar-13 22:30:03

It's the childcare thing. DH and I earn roughly the same each, and when we bought our flat (a 2-bed ex-council flat in an insalubrious area, before anyone accuses me of having a flash lifestyle) on that basis. So when we had our DD we both had to keep working or we wouldn't have been able to afford the mortgage. Also couldn't afford 2 children in childcare, so had to leave ttcing until DD was heading for school. But I was in my late 30s by then and sadly we haven't been successful. DD is 7 next birthday and it's looking like she's going to be an only (I'm 41).

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 22:31:04

Actually this reminds me of when people say they can't afford to get married. They can, of course, they just can't afford a big wedding. Again it's about priorities. I can recommend a largish age gap. There's 4 years between my 2 and it does help stagger any expense (although as I said planning a second child for a certain time didn't cross our minds).

LittleBoxes Fri 01-Mar-13 22:38:13

It's not the same. You can have a cheap wedding (we did!) but expenses like childcare are always going to be huge.

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 22:41:04

No not necessarily. DH is a SAHD. Childcare is almost zero.

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 22:43:04

Sorry, I didn't mean that to come across as smug. I can see things are different for you. Just that since having DS we have planned our life on the basis of a single salary. If we had two salaries plus childcare we wouldn't be better off. All I'm saying is it is not impossible.

redplasticspoon Fri 01-Mar-13 23:07:17

You don't need a bigger place. Having a room per child is a very English thing and completely unnecessary. Childcare is expensive but you could wait till your dc starts school so you will only be paying one set of nursery fees at a time. If everyone waited till they could 'afford' children then nobody would have them, but the reality is everyone just makes do.

I think people are being really disingenuous saying it doesn't cost any more to have 2 than 1. Perhaps in some cases, yes, where one parent is already a SAHP and it's possible to live on one salary. But that's not always the case.

Saying 'we can't afford another child' isn't just saying 'we can't afford extra school dinners and uniforms'.

For us anyway, it's saying 'we can't afford another child unless one of us gives up working for a lot of years, after which we'll be so unemployable it might be a lot longer'. That's not a small sacrifice to make. And especially today, it's very risky to rely on one salary for many years.

There's nothing wrong with having only one child! FFS no of course you don't have to buy them more toys because they're lonely hmm We are able to give DS loads of our time because there's no distractions, and like most only children he can amuse himself for ages.

OP -- I felt just like you when DS was 2, it killed me that we couldn't try for another because we were skint. Now he's almost 3 and I'm actually so thankful that we were sensible about it. He is such a happy boy, and life is actually pretty easy, we are all happy. So don't think you'll feel this way forever. Just see how it goes.

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 23:19:12

The more people who decide they absolutely HAVE to have two salaries, the harder it becomes for anyone to decide otherwise because it goes more and more against the perceived norm, and the harder it makes it for any family to have more than one child. Everyone will suffer in the end.

I don't want this to turn into a rant and I have a book to read, it just really annoys me.

CloudsAndTrees Fri 01-Mar-13 23:36:30

shock that people are encouraging the OP to have a second child when she has said she can't afford it!

She is being sensible, and while I think the idea of thinking about it again when her first child is older is very good advice, because she might be able to afford it with a bigger age gap, I also think that people shouldn't be encouraged to have children when they physically cannot afford to provide for them.

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 23:41:50

I disagree. We don't have a second car because we can't afford one. A second car would be way more expensive than DD. But children are not commodities, they are the product of love and they give love in return. You cannot apply the same reasoning as you would to the purchase of a car, you just can't.

idiuntno57 Fri 01-Mar-13 23:46:03

I realise this is going to put the cat among the pigeons but we have four and it never occurred to me not to have them because of the cost.

DH and I both work, we are always skint and spend nothing on ourselves bar the essentials, kids only have second hand stuff etc. but it can and does work.

If you want it then go for it. There can and will be a way

CloudsAndTrees Fri 01-Mar-13 23:55:26

I wasn't trying to compare a child to the purchase of a car confused

Children are people, and some people like to give their children a standard of living that is above the bare minimum. To do that, you have to think about your income in relation to how many children to want to provide for. You don't have to, but it is a valid and sensible thing to consider.

There's more to it than just saying it won't be expensive because you can hand me down clothes and get all the baby stuff out again. It's double the cost for so many things, like days out, school shoes and lunches, school trips, extra curricular stuff. And if you want to be able to give them any support at all when they get to university or while they train, then that takes money that has to come from somewhere. Even if the OP spreads the cost by having a bigger age gap, there's still a whole extra child that needs to be paid for.

gaelicsheep Fri 01-Mar-13 23:59:39

Sometimes it really is possible to over think things. I guess I have a different perspective on this - my children still both feel like miracles to me as I really didn't think I could have any. DD, my 2nd, was totally unexpected, but I couldn't possibly be without her for the world.

Children need very little except love. Society expects loads more, of course, it's good for the economy, but I do not subscribe to that view of life.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 00:02:01

Also, a minor point, but when it comes to days out it is usually almost as expensive with one as with two. All those "family" ticket deals for two adults and two children?

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 00:05:25

You see, what some people are actually advocating here, whether they realise it or not, is a self-enforced (or god forbid State-enforced) one-child policy for all but the very well off.

cerealqueen Sat 02-Mar-13 00:08:11

We couldn't afford DD2, not really, struggling at the moment, it's very hard, but I am glad we had her when we did and I pushed it as I'm now too old. I figure I will have many years of working once they are both at school.

Of course it's possible to live on one salary -- we've nearly always done so, and I can't even say we've had a bad life. But it can be stressful, and as DS gets older it will mean very real limitations that he'll start to notice. I grew up poor and I'd like to avoid that for DS if I can.

And we're lucky -- we don't have elderly parents to support or huge debts, none of us are disabled. I think it's really arrogant to assume everyone can survive on one salary, that every family has a parent who can stay home and do all the childcare.

And I agree with Clouds, I think it's not on for everyone to be telling the OP that she CAN afford another DC when she came on here looking for support because they've decided they can't.

maddening Sat 02-Mar-13 00:17:58

If you waited till he was 3 to ttc he would be nearly 4 when you gave birth and looking at going to school when you finished maternity leave so the childcare might not be such an issue then?

midastouch Sat 02-Mar-13 00:22:01

Having a second child for us meant that we had to cut down on a lot of things, we bulk buy food on offer, we go out less, we save tesco clubcard vouchers for days out and spend less on birthdays and christmas. Unless you're pretty well off you have to give things up, but they are worth it! I hated pregnancy but i went through it a second time to have a sibling for DS, its worth it! We only have a 2 bed house, they are fine sharing now and we'll worry about it when theyre older . There is more to life than money, have a good think about if you could make it work

maddening Sat 02-Mar-13 00:22:27

Also - is there career progression for you both that would mean a potential rise in income by the time that big school and uni costs kick in? And if you can afford childcare currently then that income would be available for the school uniform costs etc when they are both in school?

HillBilly76 Sat 02-Mar-13 00:22:49

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usualsuspect Sat 02-Mar-13 00:23:54

You could have a second child. If you wanted one.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 00:24:49

I think it's not on to stand by and watch.the OP be taken in by the new faux morality of having to comply with society's expectations of spending power. I would rather feel poor with two children than better off with only one. It's the OPs choice, of course as long as it really is HER choice and not the Daily Mail's.

Of course children need more than love. They need food and shelter for one thing, and those aren't free.

Again I agree with Clouds -- of course you can raise a child on the bare minimum but it's perfectly reasonable to want more than that.

We are low-income, we are already very frugal. When I worry about providing for DS, it's not because I want to get him an ipad, it's because I don't want him to grow up wearing too-small clothes like I did. I don't want him to hear his parents arguing about whether to pay the electric or buy food. With one child, that's probably not going to happen -- but for us personally, given our circumstances with the work we do, if we had another child now, it could get very grim. I could explain it all in detail, or maybe people could just accept that some people really can't afford more than one child.

KatieMiddleton Sat 02-Mar-13 00:29:21

We have 2dc in a tiny house with one double and one single bedroom. We are also on one income in the most expensive bit of the country.

We cut our cloth accordingly and I wouldn't change a thing now dd is here even if we don't buy new clothes, have to account for every penny and there's bugger all chance of a holiday. It's not forever but dd is. She's just gorgeous and her brother adores her.

We agonised over whether to have another child or stick at one and while some aspects are really, really tough for us it was worth it. Ds was 3.7 when she was born though so only one lot of full time childcare at a time.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 00:37:26

Shelter needs cost no more with two children than with one.

TheSecondComing Sat 02-Mar-13 00:38:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ReturnOfEmeraldGreen Sat 02-Mar-13 00:41:17

Enjoy what you have.

KatieMiddleton Sat 02-Mar-13 00:43:10

Omg how is you ds 2.6 TSC?!

I can remember your minge! when you were pregnant. It feels much more recent.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 00:44:32

I just can't believe people here are suggesting that only the children of well off families are entitled to have a sibling.

TheSecondComing Sat 02-Mar-13 00:45:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

usualsuspect Sat 02-Mar-13 00:46:58

This is MN, Garlic.

Only the rich are allowed children on MN.

usualsuspect Sat 02-Mar-13 00:49:04

I had my 3rd on the bones of my arse, You know what I love that boy. So shoot me.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 00:50:17

I am so glad I could not give a flying fig what other people think I should or should not do.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 00:53:28

Perhaps I'm over sensitive, but I get the distinct impression these days on Mumsnet that children are seen as a burden to be shouldered and not a joy to be cherished.

TheSecondComing Sat 02-Mar-13 00:56:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatieMiddleton Sat 02-Mar-13 00:56:43

No. There's no getting away from your minge.


SaggyOldClothCatpuss Sat 02-Mar-13 00:58:22

We dont have a huge house or flashy careers, but we have our lovely Dcs. Id not trade them for any job in the world. We will be trying for another this year. We will make ends meet. We own our own house and dont claim anything. I dont get the rules on having children.

SaggyOldClothCatpuss Sat 02-Mar-13 00:59:22

What Gaelicsheep said. sad

ReturnOfEmeraldGreen Sat 02-Mar-13 01:03:26

It's not just money. It's time and attention and having enough energy to do a good job. There is too much social pressure to have 2 or more children, it isn't right for everyone.

I'm sorry, but what fucking planet am I on?

It's not about dancing lessons FGS. Where does this idea come from, that if you think you can't have another child it's because you're super materialist and poncy?

We live in a tiny flat. All my shoes have holes in them. We are super super frugal and no I don't care about keeping up with the Jones or whatever. We are just getting by and we're happy, but I'm sorry, you can't raise children on pixie dust. Dh is low wage and I'm freelance, neither of us have dependable salaries. Really, we should just have a child anyway?

Glad it's all working out for youse but please, spare me your sneering about how it's only rich people worried about having more kids.

hippo123 Sat 02-Mar-13 01:14:10

I don't get mn. You get shot down if you have kids beyond yours means and equally shot down for having 1 and knowing what you can afford. Of course anyone can stretch the budget to fit in 2+ kids, but not everyone wants to. Op it sounds like you have reached a very sensible decision for you and your family. I have 2 dc, we can only afford one if I'm honest. Obviously I don't regret having my second child, but we would be a lot better off finincallly and housing wise if we stuck to one. Also days out, 1:1 time reading, holidays, after school activities etc would be much easier to achieve/ afford with one child. I Love having two kids, but I can see that having one is great as well.

StuntGirl Sat 02-Mar-13 01:21:24

Ridiculous to come and and say "Of course you can afford it, please OP, go forth and procreate!" She has said she can't afford it, and I suspect she knows more about her finances than anyone here.

bohemian is absolutely right, it takes more than bloody pixie dust to raise a child. Good on the OP for thinking about it and planning rather than a cavalier "Oh we'll manage".

Perhaps the OP can look again at her situation and see if there's an option to make it work, if she wants. But to blindly tell her " You CAN afford it!" misses the point spectacularly.

filibear Sat 02-Mar-13 07:22:30

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QuiteOldGal Sat 02-Mar-13 07:34:34

We have only one DC. We took the decision because of the cost of childcare, room in the house etc. It is difficult when they are about 2y because that is the age when people think about a second child and we were a bit sad then to only plan one.

But that passed and DS was very happy being an only and was able to do things we would not otherwise been able to afford. It was very easy to go on holidays as quite often it was just an extra bed in the room, we also had a small caravan which we took away for holidays.

He had and still has a wide circle of friends, seems very independent, doesn't think twice about doing stuff alone if that what he wants to do. Though that could be his personality not the fact that he is an only. He is now at University, which we pay his rent for him, something I think we couldn't have done with more DC.

I am glad we had only 1 DC and I don't think DS has ever missed not having siblings because he had a lot of friends and has always been very happy.

Obviously we don't know what life would have been like with more DC but we are very happy with our 1 DS.

quesadilla Sat 02-Mar-13 07:45:04

I'm in exactly the same boat as you: one dd (2), basically the reason I feel we can't afford it is childcare. I can 't afford to stop work as I am breadwinner, DH doesn't want to stop work altogether. But the childcare for DD has wiped out any disposable. I am going to go against the grain though and say there's a lot to be said for one child (extra care and attention). I have made my peace with having one, enjoying her but looking forward to the freedom that I will get back as she grows. How much will you regret not having more?

YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue Sat 02-Mar-13 07:47:03

You are prioritising your jobs over having a second child, which is a perfectly acceptable choice, but I don't think you are hard done by.

If your home is 3 bed it is big enough, loads of people live well with 2 kids in a 2 bed.

You could give up work or have another child later, but say you don't want to.

So on balance I think YABU as you are making your own choices for your own reasons then asking for pity!

filibear Sat 02-Mar-13 07:51:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue Sat 02-Mar-13 07:56:31

Well I guess if you were considering it later you wouldn't be sad about having only one child because you would be planning to have another in the future???

CloudsAndTrees Sat 02-Mar-13 07:59:38

It didn't read to me like OP was asking for pity, it seemed to me like she wanted a bit of support in deciding that one child was right for her family instead of deciding she should be ruled by her hormones.

By being sensible and thinking about what she can actually afford, she is doing the right thing.

RocknRollNerd Sat 02-Mar-13 08:04:00

I'd love to know where all these only children who are 'alone' or 'lonely' are. I sure as hell don't know any of them. Neither of my parents grew up alone (and by definition each had some form of social life that enabled them to meet each other), the same for 2 of my grandparents (don't forget that despite the trend for larger families back then, there were actually quite a lot of only children post WW1 as the dads went off to war and never came back). I don't recall sobbing in my room because I had no-one to play with as a kid. There are plenty of good reasons to have more children, there are plenty of good reasons to stop at one but fear of the 'lonely only' is not one of them in my experience.

YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue Sat 02-Mar-13 08:32:55

OP specifically asked for 'a kick up the arse'!

I am an only child and it honestly didn't bother me through my childhood. I was close to my cousins and my parents encouraged friends to come round etc. That said I am an introvert and happiest on my own - nothing wrong with that.
iT is bothering me now as I am seeing my parents getting older (they are only in their late 50s so much of my worry is for the future) and knowing that everything - all the responsibility, all the worry, all the care, all the decisions will be down to me alone. That is quite stressful. That said my dad's dad died recently after a short illness at the age of 86. Until a couple of weeks before he died he was totall self-sufficient - driving, DIY, mowing law cooking, laundry etc. So no automatic assumption there will be problems i suppose.

Why dont you work backwards to see how much money you need to get by each month?

Children are not babies for long. Most littlies are in playgroup by 3 and school before 5.

Kids need love, boundaries, puddles, mud and cuddles. They dont need fancy houses, lessons in this or that or well off parents.

As parents we have had money and lost it. Our kids are well aware we cant look after them financially now and innthe long run that is what they need.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 08:51:14

Well there's no problem then. My concern was that the OP was not having another child because of societal pressure to maximise disposable income. If it's because she only wants one then fine, each to their own.

olaybiscuitbarrel Sat 02-Mar-13 08:51:46

I'm an only and it has never bothered me at all. DD will also the the only one for us, we don't have a choice about that but actually I'm more than ok about it - we have time, freedom and choices that we wouldn't have with 2, and we are a very happy little family.
On the point about only children having to bear the burden of their aging parents - my mum was one of 5 and yet she still ended up having to nurse her mother without any help at all in her last years as none of her siblings were in a position to do so.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 08:55:31

Except it's not fine is it? We should be asking ourselves what has gone wrong that someone genuinely feels they cannot have a second child, or in some cases any children at all.

CloudsAndTrees Sat 02-Mar-13 09:03:08

Why does there have to be something wrong because someone feels they can't afford a second child?

Children are a responsibility, as well as being all the other lovely things they are, but they do need to be paid for by the people that created them. There's nothing's ring with that.

We should be asking ourselves what has gone wrong that someone feels they can have a second or third child when they don't have the money to provide for them.

Imaginethat Sat 02-Mar-13 09:12:21

Why is it not ok to have another to be a sibling for the first? They don't have to get on all the time, heavens, who in life gets on all the time?! But they have a unique relationship and, if you take the time to teach them to be loving and respectful, it will surely enhance their lives more so than any material goods.

Having said that, I think OP bloody good for you for being sensible. Too many babies are born to those who have not considered the practicalities.

ChestyLeRoux Sat 02-Mar-13 09:15:37

We have 2 dcs in a 2 bed flat like 1000s of families.If you havent got much space in a 3 bed with just the three of you I bet you have loads of junk you could clear out.

MyDarlingClementine Sat 02-Mar-13 09:24:33

Sometimes it really is possible to over think things. I guess I have a different perspective on this - my children still both feel like miracles to me as I really didn't think I could have any.

I am the same as you Gaelic, I didnt think I could have any either so we are coming at it from a totally different persepective.

MyDarlingClementine Sat 02-Mar-13 09:28:11

I think it's not on to stand by and watch.the OP be taken in by the new faux morality of having to comply with society's expectations of spending power. I would rather feel poor with two children than better off with only one. It's the OPs choice, of course as long as it really is HER choice and not the Daily Mail's.

Very true ^

duende Sat 02-Mar-13 09:35:31

I really don't get people who say "just go for it and you always manage somehow". To me, mathematics is not subjective. I can add up. I know how much money we need to come in every month- it's both salaries.
I also know how much childcare is- DS's nursery has cost us between £800 and £900 per month. There is now way we could have doubled that and have two in nursery at once.

When I used to say we can't afford a second baby, I didn't mean the sleepsuits, formula or eBay toys. I meant childcare.

And when they are older, it will be 2 sets of school trips, trainers, uni fees, etc. but I'm planning for it.

ChestyLeRoux Sat 02-Mar-13 09:43:48

Its fine if you dont really want onr but there is always a way of affording them some how if its something you really do want one.

This reminds me of an article I saw on the mail online site the other day with loads of comments saying we earn 50/60/70k right now and theres no way we can afford a child in our current circumstances. Those families could if they wanted it bad enough.

CloudsAndTrees Sat 02-Mar-13 09:50:58

How is there always a way of affording more children if you want them? I honestly don't get it. Duende has it spot on by saying maths isn't subjective.

I couldn't afford another child on our current income, let alone if I had to live on maternity pay for a year. The money has to come from somewhere to pay for the things my children already need, like a roof over their heads, heating, food, transport to school, clothes, just the basic stuff. What is it that I could take away from the children that I already have to pay for another? I could probably cut the £80 a year each for cubs/scouts, but that's about it.

ChestyLeRoux Sat 02-Mar-13 09:56:56

Live in cheaper area would be the main one.Live in a small property is another.Quit your job so you dont need childcare but if you genuinely have a low.wge you would get help with childcare.

gaelicsheep Sat 02-Mar-13 10:00:38

Clouds - my point is that an ordinary family should NOT be feeling they cannot afford a second child. We are all screwed if that's the case.

Jinsei Sat 02-Mar-13 10:03:59

We only have one. I'd love to have another and we could certainly afford it, but it just wasn't meant to be. sad

While I deeply regret not being able to have a second child from my own point of view, I genuinely don't think dd is particularly worse off by not having a sibling. She has fantastic relationships and lots of shared memories with cousins and close friends, and she is never really short of kids to play with. She also gets far more of our time and attention than she would if we had another, and I think she relishes this. I have asked her before if she wishes she could have a sibling, and she doesn't seem bothered either way.

I do think she would have missed out in some ways if we had been lucky enough to have another. Life isn't about material things I know, but dd has a very expensive hobby for which she has demonstrated a real degree of talent. We're able to indulge this and let her explore her potential in a way that simply wouldn't be possible if we had two. Don't get me wrong - I'd still rather have another child, but I can see that there are some benefits for dd in her being an only child.

Another child would undoubtedly enrich my life beyond measure, but I don't actually know whether a sibling would really enrich dd's life more than the other opportunities that she is able to enjoy - on the basis of my own experience of having a sibling (with whom I get on well!), I'm not convinced that it would.

ChestyLeRoux Sat 02-Mar-13 10:05:45

I agree with gaelicsheep and agrer on herbpoints when people say they cant afford to get married when they could if they really wanted to.

redskyatnight Sat 02-Mar-13 10:13:07

There are several arguments here.
People often use "I can't afford ..." to mean, "I choose to prioritise other spending ...". So in this sense, it's possible that the OP can reprioritise her money to "afford" another child.

There's also the sense of "I can't afford ..." from a long term sense of how this would affect your life. OP has mentioned it being the nail in the coffin for her career. DH and I couldn't afford another child on the basis that it would put too much strain on our family.

But I can't believe that people are arguing that 2 children are no more expensive than 1!! It costs something to feed your 2nd child. It costs something to clothe them (very unlikely to be unable to ENTIRELY clothe a child on hand-me-downs). When they get to school it will cost something to send your 2nd child on school trips etc. Love to know how you can manage your money so your 2nd child costs you nothing ...

duende Sat 02-Mar-13 10:14:37

I think comparing getting married to having a child is absolutely pointless.
If I wanted to get married I could do it at the registry office and invite 2sets of parents and the witnesses for dinner.
It's hardly comparable, is it?

As for living in a cheaper area- easier said that done. We live in the cheapest part of town, in a small 3 bed house, on the edge of a council estate. But we live in the south east, where our jobs are, so it's still expensive.

idiuntno57 Sat 02-Mar-13 10:14:45

surely being able to afford things is about managing our expectations. (aside of very low incomes which require the safety net of benefits)

one persons 'essential' Waitrose shop is another's trip to Lidl and the market. It is indeed sad that x2 kids is affordable but I can't help wondering what is essential and, in the case of childcare it is a relatively short time one has to shell out tons fir pre school care.

vamosbebe Sat 02-Mar-13 10:14:48

We can't afford another, either. We live abroad, we rent a tiny 3-bed house (DH works from home) which costs no more than a small flat (the very wee garden was the deciding factor), so we have the space. Neither DH nor I earn very much, DH is freelance, I'm a sahm until October when DS will be 21 months, cheaper than childcare. There is no childcare allowance in my country, there is no flexibility - your child does either full time hours or parttime, no two mornings a week or anything useful. At the beginning of the school year you must buy ALL the books and they change them every year, at a cost of 200-250euros. We're not near family for childcare help, I'd like to visit UK twice a year to keep in contact with family.
We're struggling now, even though DS is old enough to be eating what we eat so no more ff costs.
I sew a lot of my own things, toys especially, and also for gifts. I buy cheap/sale basics and embelish them, that helps a lot.
So, I know where you're coming from, OP thanks

idiuntno57 Sat 02-Mar-13 10:15:12

sorry meant not affordable

ChestyLeRoux Sat 02-Mar-13 10:25:51

Dd2 is nearly one it has only cost mr about £100 so far it does get more expensive as you get older but usually the more children you have the less the adults spend.

fromwesttoeast Sat 02-Mar-13 10:36:32

I think a lot of this is about choices. Before DC DH and I lived in one room in shared housing. We both worked, but did not take holidays or buy stuff. We saved for a big deposit. We bought our two bed flat when we wanted to start a family. We had 4 DC in that flat. Not a problem.
I am appalled at some of the attitudes on MN. Some people will be on a low wage their whole life. Not only must such workers forgo the material luxuries of life but some posters would have such people denied the fulfillment of family life too.

MyDarlingClementine Sat 02-Mar-13 11:06:13

I wish my DGM was alive today to tell us how she managed with 7 on a building formans wage - four girls all in one room and three boys in the other in a three bed house and 6 years of it through the war when DGP was away.

She also managed piano and violin lessons.

They have all done reasonably well in life - all of them loved thier upbringing, and dearly cherished each other and thier parents.

BrainDeadMama Sat 02-Mar-13 11:17:40

You see, what some people are actually advocating here, whether they realise it or not, is a self-enforced (or god forbid State-enforced) one-child policy for all but the very well off.

^^ This. Great posts, gaelicsheep.

Also, something that struck me is that language seems to be the problem here. Unless I've missed something from what the OP said, it would be better for her family not to have a second child right now, for career and financial reasons. That is absolutely fine, but it isn't the same as 'can't afford'.

If we translate 'can't maintain a certain lifestyle/house/career situation' into 'can't afford' then we are basically saying that those without that situation probably shouldn't have any more than one child.

ZenNudist Sat 02-Mar-13 11:23:10

If you're worried about childcare cost just resign yourself to a bigger gap for when your ds starts his free 15 hours and then school.

My ds is 2.5. Wont get free 15hrs for a year due to being eldest in school year. Ive been waiting to try for another so I can have him in nursery funded when im on mat leave. Then will have him in school which will mean I only have one set of nursery fees.

It's no hassle to share a bedroom, even a small room can have bunks. You'll cope!

CloudsAndTrees Sat 02-Mar-13 11:28:37

You don't have to be 'very well off' to be able to afford more than one child.

It is about choices, some people aspire to a higher standard of living than others, and that is fine. It's up to an individual couple whether they want to be able to have another child, or they want to be able to afford new clothes each year, or indeed to make whatever choices they want with their own families and their own money.

It is sad that a family that has two parents working has to think carefully about whether they can afford another child without their standard of living dropping drastically, and it shows the massive problem we have with wealth distribution between workers in this country. But that's the way it is and we have to plan our families around the circumstances we are actually in, not the ones we think we are entitled to be in.

ChestyLeRoux Sat 02-Mar-13 11:35:51

You have a choice though cloudsandtrees a high standard of living or child.That doesnt mean that someone couldnt afford one.

MyDarlingClementine Sat 02-Mar-13 11:38:40

I have to say I do find that phrase " standard of living" v interesting, what does it mean?

To some people I know standard of living is DC in boarding schools whilst they enjoy global free expat life, to some -its kitting out DC from next every season for several hundred pounds, for some its getting thier nails done and providing ipads whilst house is a shambles, for some its basic living but DC looking smart and tidy and all focus is on school and education? confused

CloudsAndTrees Sat 02-Mar-13 11:51:19

Some people have a choice between a high standard of living and a child, some don't. For some, the relative is that they will have a very poor standard of living if they have another child.

I see what is being said about the ability to afford something being subjective, and for many people, they could afford to have a child if they were to sacrifice something else. But for other people, there just aren't any sacrifices left to be made. Your mortgage is still going to cost the same, your gas and electric bills are only going to go up, your other children are still going to eat the same amount and grow at the same rate regardless of whether your budget has shrunk or you need to start buying formula and nappies. If your standard of living is already basic, then it can easily be a case that you can't afford more children.

I agree that standard of living is subjective though. Some people are happy with very little, some people like to have more in the way of material things. It's entirely up to them what they spend their money on, whether it be children or holidays.

fatlazymummy Sat 02-Mar-13 12:01:47

People just want different things.Some people seem to be taking this a little too personally.
In the OP's case I would suggest waiting for a year or so(if her age permits) then re-evaluating. By then she (plus partner of course) may have definitely decided she doesn't want another child, or she may have decided she does, in which case she can look at ways of making it happen. Reorganising the space in her home, finances, work hours etc.

Chunderella Sat 02-Mar-13 12:10:40

Maths isn't subjective, but that's not to say it isn't valid to see if things can be reworked. Most of us haven't pared spending down to the very bone. Some have, yes. But I suspect the majority of us aren't eating the absolute cheapest food available, cut out all unnecessary travel, no Christmas, wearing extra clothes instead of heating, no treats whatsoever, and using every single money saving device and tactic we possibly can. And I'm not saying that people should do this in order to be able to have more DC. Just that it's a way, and if you want another one but think you can't afford it, it's worth thinking about how much might be saved by reducing living standards in particular ways.

Equally, it's possible to reduce some of the costs associated with children if you're able to be creative. Again, not everyone can do this, but some can. OP may have thought it through and ruled out any such options, but she doesn't say that. Perhaps OP could reduce childcare costs by using a CM instead of a nursery, or compressed hours for her or DH or both, or one of them might be able to do shift work. Or maybe one could go PT and make an arrangement with a friend or relative in the same position locally that they'll each look after the other's DC on their days off. In OPs case, her view that they don't have room for another in a 3 bed new build is surprising. Even in a poky one, they must have a lot of stuff and a de-clutter may be possible. Perhaps not, perhaps they need the room for someone's medical equipment or a home office or one of them is a tradesman and has to keep the tools somewhere. But it's worth raising the possibility.

Obviously, one doesn't have to do this exercise. Plenty of people would rather limit their family than compromise elsewhere, which is fine. But if a person is sad enough about their situation to post online about it, surely it's worthwhile to look very carefully at all possible options without ruling anything out.

KobayashiMaru Sat 02-Mar-13 12:15:46

You can afford another child, you have chosen not to have one for whatever reasons. It's not the same thing.

ChestyLeRoux Sat 02-Mar-13 12:28:35

First year costs for me have literally been nappies and thats about it which are £10 for 112 from asda. My mum bought me a 25 quid pushchair and dh has spent about a tenner or so on second hand clothes.All the rest has been hand me downs.Milk is free as still breastfeeding. Food she just has bits and bobs of mine so no extra money.

Writehand Sat 02-Mar-13 12:40:12

We could only possibly afford 1 baby. I was the breadwinner by a mile, and childcare is so expensive. We couldn't do it. No way.

Then I got pregnant. Contraceptive failure. I thought it was the end of the world. But abortion was never an option. Perhaps when I was single, maybe, but not after I'd had my precious DS. I loved my DH and my DS far too much to terminate a 2nd pregnancy.

So we had 2 kids. And we made it work. We had no choice.

I look back now & I'm very grateful I didn't get the outcome we'd planned so carefully.

Life is so uncertain, OP. Today my DDH is long dead. We could never have planned or expected that either. So no husband, 2 kids. Not the plan. But I am so very grateful I had my 2nd baby. Babies are more important than any amount of money and -- drumroll -- there is no real security in the world -- however much we like to think there is. If it means that much, go for it. Life really is v short.

fromwesttoeast Sat 02-Mar-13 13:07:11

Sorry for your loss writehand. You words ring so true.

fatlazymummy Sat 02-Mar-13 13:33:12

In any case the Op doesn't have to make a permanent decision right now. As long as neither of them get sterilised then they can always change their minds in the future if/when their circumstances change. The future doesn't have to be set in stone.

OhMerGerd Sat 02-Mar-13 15:26:02

Of course it is all about choices. And if course there will be some people for whom having one child is the right financial choice and/ or the right personal emotional choice. The OP was asking if she being unreasonable to be a little bit sad she she can only afford one child. Well, no... If you are sure you can only afford one OP and you'd have liked more then no you're not being unreasonable to feel sad. If on the other hand you think y

OhMerGerd Sat 02-Mar-13 15:29:28

Ou can only afford one and are interested in how others have managed more than one a few of us have offered up some thoughts.
On paper we could not afford any when we had DD1, and again when DD 2 came along. Yes one of us has sacrificed advancement in career but both of us have worked and so we have not claimed or been entitled to anything but the universal child benefit even though on paper we'd never had enough to raise a family.

OhMerGerd Sat 02-Mar-13 15:33:37

And yes OP having one is brilliant too. Lots of people can't have one child and look Longingly at your situation. You'll be able to enjoy every minute of her childhood, teens etc without the distraction of anybody else and feel satisfied in your career too.
So do enjoy and don't feel sad.

Goldenbear Sat 02-Mar-13 16:22:01

I would not feel 'sad' quite yet if your DC is only 2. I didn't even want to contemplate another in year 2 arriving as I'm hugely disorganised and thought I'd be incredibly stressed with the focus being split- I'm no multi-tasker!

If you have a 3 bedroom mews house, you have a 3 bedroom mews house and you have the space in my mind. I live in a 2 double bedroom flat and it is fine. We moved to a house in an area we could afford but I hated it and missed urban life so we moved back again and lost the 3rd bedroom and garden- we still went ahead. However, I'm a SAHM and despite living in a flat, it's a nice flat and we have a good standard of living in terms of buying good food, day trips, a decent car. On the other hand this will be the first year that DS (5) will go on holiday abroad as we have simply not been able to afford it.

Zzzzmarchhare Sat 02-Mar-13 16:31:53

Is the whole no space in the house thing related to when you had PND? I used to only see the good points in our house but being stuck in (and I went out most days-but not the same as work) with a screaming baby and PND made me hate it. If I still feel the same way when I'm ready to ttc no 2 want to move.

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