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AIBU to tell people off who park in parent & child spaces but have no children with them?

(558 Posts)
Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 15:47:28

This does my head in when I'm struggling to get 2 kids out the car in a normal space yet some idiot without kids is parked in the child space!!

I told a lady off today! I said 'do you know this is a parent & child space?' She said 'yeah' I replied 'so you're just being inconsiderate then?' She thought about it then made up some bullshit about her child being 'down there, in that shop!!' - she had just driven in!!! Clearly lying. So, would you say something to someone!???

Indith Thu 28-Feb-13 15:48:38

personally I have better things to do than be bothered about it.

TaggieCampbellBlack Thu 28-Feb-13 15:48:38

YABU.

NinaHeart Thu 28-Feb-13 15:49:34

Oh good, a parking thread.
I'm afraid I'd probably just seethe quietly and get on with my day. Yes it's annoying, but not the end of the world.

delilahlilah Thu 28-Feb-13 15:50:45

They should have larger spaces for people who are unable to park in normal spaces, so they don't take up 2 instead!

aderynlas Thu 28-Feb-13 15:51:06

Fairly new to mumsnet but even I know you will need a hard hat now op

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 15:51:27

Move P and C spaces to the back of the car park. Problem solved!

Tiredmumno1 Thu 28-Feb-13 15:51:36

<sets out chairs, and starts up popcorn machine>

ubik Thu 28-Feb-13 15:52:01

just park somewhere else and walk the extra 100 yards to the shop.

WomanCalledAlice Thu 28-Feb-13 15:53:55

So hard done by! Imagine they had never thought up the idea of these spaces? I usually park in a quiet spot in the supermarket, away from all the crazies looking for children in cars parked in P&C bays. Usually the same ones who think "why are they in a disabled bay, there is clearly nothing wrong with them" hmm

An the old parent and child space debate. They didn't have them in my day. <reminiscent>

Today is a beautiful day. Unless you are about to drip feed about SN I declare you unreasonable as you could just walk a bit further.

Maybe supermarkets should get rid of these aces and sell a certain number of priority passes for the spaces nearest the doors. People with blue badges automatically qualify obv. and the rest of the world either gives enough of a fig to pay extra or walks.

headlesslambrini Thu 28-Feb-13 15:56:37

FWIW P&C spaces do tend to be close to the entrance of the shops but I don't think that they need to be, they need to have a trolly park close by but why would anyone want to park right by the entrance of the shop when they know that that will be the busiest place in the car park. I rather park further away, where it is quieter.

<sneaks popcorn of Tiredmumno1>

Shakirasma Thu 28-Feb-13 15:56:41

YABU
P and C spaces are a convenient bonus, not a right. And there may be many reasons why somebody needs that convenience more than you. This lady may have been being lazy, or she could have been disabled, injured, ill etc, but not entitled to a blue badge.

My DS is no longer a toddler but he is disabled, not that you could tell, and I will use P and C spaces with him whenever I feel the need.

If you can't manage in a normal space between 2 cars, if you can snag a P and C space then great. If not just park at the back of the car ark where it's quiet. Sorted.

Why oh why do you need a P&C parking space?
Just why?

It's actually not that hard to walk an extra 2 foot into the supermarket or whatever is it?

I honestly suspect the only reason for P&C parking spaces is to give people something to moan about.

DPotter Thu 28-Feb-13 16:00:56

This used to really annoyed me as well when my DD was small. I have both challenged people (and got fluster & excuses) and also reported them to the car park owners. Unfortunately spaces for parent & child are not enforceable unlike spaces for disabled people so most car park owners aren't interested.

However my local council did once get someone to move his car - local swimming pool, this chap (dressed in suit with a brief case) parked in the last parent & child slot. I complained to the receptionist who knew who he was and she got him to move his car. didn't help me but it certainly made the point to him.

people can be a bit strange though; once parked in a space leaving several slots free on both sides so that at least I would be able to get the baby seat out of the car easily. was in the process of lifting out seat with buggy lined up along side when this woman driver beeped & waved at me to move the buggy so she could park right next to me. I pointed to all the empty spaces and she eventually drove off to park somewhere else.

Katiepoes Thu 28-Feb-13 16:02:24

Yay! I get to trot out my line again - we don't have them in Holland and yet life goes on.

nickelbabe Thu 28-Feb-13 16:02:49

OP said "when I'm struggling to get 2 kids out the car in a normal space"

struggling okay.
strugggggggeeeeeerrrrrliiiiiingngngngngngngng

They are provided to make life easier when you have to open the doors wide. I don't care how near the supermarket doors they are, they make things easier when I have DS with me.

People who park in them just because they feel like it are cunts. They just do it to try and make someone elses life a little bit more difficult and if that's how they need to get their kicks then sod em. Good for you OP.

whiteflame Thu 28-Feb-13 16:05:10

I think YANBU. If the spaces are specifically P&C, unless she was picking up a DC, it doesn't really matter if she had another reason (ill, tired, just lazy) to want to park there.

But I also don't see why this would bother you enough to post about it.

TimothyClaypoleLover Thu 28-Feb-13 16:05:18

To be honest, this doesn't bother me. I am quite capable of getting my baby and toddler out of the car in a normal sized space. If a parent space is available I will use it but if not then happy to park elsewhere. There are more important things in the world.

On the otherhand my DH gets infuriated and starts arguments with people parking in parent spaces with no children in the car.

I think they shouldn't have these spaces at all and then there would be more spaces for everyone.

Olgathebrickshed Thu 28-Feb-13 16:06:18

I used to go up to offenders, smile disarmingly, and say: "You do know there's a man over there clamping people parking in P&C slots who don't have children?"

They used to move their cars pretty sharpish.

firesidechat Thu 28-Feb-13 16:06:28

I don't know if you're being unreasonable, but yes if would annoy me too and I've never used a P and C space in my life.

Misuse of disabled spaces is my real hatred though. I give them my death stare!

xigris Thu 28-Feb-13 16:06:38

YNBU!!! It drives me demented!. IMO it is sheer laziness and inconsideration on the part of people who park in parent and child spaces when they don't have a child with them. I once had to park right the other end of the huge Tesco car park when DS2 was a few weeks old. It was chucking it down, freezing and I had DS1 age 2 with me. I also had SPD when I was preg so I was still pretty uncomfortable. I did use online shopping for most of our groceries but needed a few essentials. I saw two people park in P&C spots who had no children with them. I was bloody homicidal cross by the time I got home. I would never park in a disabled parking space as I do not have a disability. If you're not shopping with a child then don't park in a P&C space. So no, Amey, YNNU. At all grin

They are a convenience not a right.

And seriously, you struggle getting 2 kids out of a car? Why don't you just park in a quieter bit of the carpark? Or shop online? Or stop being so dramatic?

Honestly, if you actual struggle to get 2 kids out of a car if its parked in a normal space, you should probably take the bus instead.

Then you could start a thread about inconsiderate people who won't give up their seat for you/stand in the buggy space/do not offer to help you with your pushchair/drivers who do not wait til you are sitting down/drivers who do not have change/bus is too hot/bus is too cold/bus is too noisy.

So many more possibilities.

Dawndonna Thu 28-Feb-13 16:07:51

They recently refurbished our local Tesco store. In doing so they put the P&C spaces nearest the door, whilst the disabled spaces were further away. I park in the P&C spaces. Tell me off and my daughter will offer to swap your legs for hers.

CheeseandPickledOnion Thu 28-Feb-13 16:08:04

YABU.

I parked in one the other day with no child. shock

I wanted to use the cash point, but all the space at the 'drop off' spot were taken by people who had parked there and gone in the store. There was a space right there so I pulled in quickly.

I hop out of the car and the man walking towards me with his child huffs 'oh, you must be locking your child in the car' sarcastically to me. I said I'm just grabbing some cash, besides which it isn't illegal to park in these without a child you know!!

whiteflame Thu 28-Feb-13 16:08:12

The OP could do those things Missy. But on the other hand people without DC could just stop parking in spaces designated for others.

ScarlettInSpace Thu 28-Feb-13 16:08:29

Hehe these threads always remind me of when OH pulled into a P&C space right outside Boots cos I had to run in to get something [can't remember what, it was something critical like false eyelashes], as I was gettting out of the car a woman in a Chelsea tractor pulled up behind him, got out of the car and started screaming at him about it being a P&C space and how he shouldn't park there without children. He just wound down the tinted rear window and the 2 kids sat in the back [aged 6 & 3 then] waved at her.

Funnily enough she didn't have anything else to say then.

All very silly.

ChairmanWow Thu 28-Feb-13 16:08:40

I thought the whole point of them is the space either side which makes it easier to get the kids out rather proximity to the store. I'm not normally massively arsed as we manage even with a squeeze, but at 37 weeks pregnant with a massive bump, pelvic girdle pain and a pretty hefty 23 month old I'm buggered without them so it is galling to see lazy arseholes using them sans kids.

Olgathebrickshed Thu 28-Feb-13 16:08:53

Illegal, no. Selfish, yes.

CloudsAndTrees Thu 28-Feb-13 16:10:12

No,mi wouldn't say anything. But I would park in them without a child with me if I felt inclined to.

It's just a parking space. Get over yourself.

Slainte Thu 28-Feb-13 16:11:46

YANBU

<sits next to Tiredmumno1, waits for pop corn>

Has anyone started up a game of P & C bingo yet?? Op you are very brave starting a parking thread AND putting it in AIBU smile

Yes it is annoying, but the spaces are a courtesy, yes they are very handy with kids but you could park further away and have plenty of space. Now for the disabled space debate to start, and has anyone mentioned bus travel and kids melting in the rain yet??

gallifrey Thu 28-Feb-13 16:11:53

I used to have a really small 2 door car and getting dd out of her seat in the back was really difficult anyway and if I parked in a normal space then the car door wouldn't open enough to get her out!! So there, that's my excuse for parking in one!
However I do have a blue badge too so that's a double whammy being disabled and having children...I can park where I like!!

LaalRatty Thu 28-Feb-13 16:13:10

DPotter lovey, you need a hobby. Does your life completely revolve around parking? Become a traffic warden and at least get paid. Don't give it away free.

FlorenceMattell Thu 28-Feb-13 16:14:01

I have done this myself in the past. Had an operation of my hips, and couldnt get out of car in small spaces. I am only young (well in thirties) so dont have a blue badge or look elderly (hopefully).

I know it must be annoying for parents with babies if they saw me, as they wouldnt have been aware.

I do actually think that having them is very helpful because of the extra space they allow and that they give you the ability to open your door fully in order to fasten your child into their seat.
However, to avoid this seemingly constant battle about their use, I think they should be located away from the building and therefore they would become less tempting for other people to use.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:16:27

I'm not sure wh ythe OP is getting such a bashing.

Plenty of supermarkets are fining people fpr misuse of these spaces and I think rightly.

In a lot of car parks it is hard to get a car seat out of the side of your car because the spaces are generally so small. I've had times when it was impossible to remove the baby seat from the car. What's so hard to understand about that? a P&T space is wider for a reason.

Also they are great for preventing damage to the other cars when your child decides to run ahead slightly and open their door with some force, on the way back.

(and you're 9 months pregnant and can't run after them)

I had a go at a young chap parking there once, after school one day. He squared up to me ready for an actual fight and so I backed off. He was a right cunt IIRC.

Cheese, I think you were pretty thoughtless using a P&T space without children and am wondering if the other people on this thread would defend your actions. I mean it's hardly crime of the century but when you have tiny children and are completely knackered with a baby as well, you really do appreciate having these spaces.

curiousgeorgie Thu 28-Feb-13 16:16:35

I really don't understand the animosity towards threads like this.

Maybe you need them, maybe you don't... But the fact is that they are there for drivers with children to use and it's very frustrating when someone with no children parks in them.

Good on all the people who have no problem trying to park in normal sized spaces next to giant cars and getting their children out with ease... But some of us are pregnant with SPD and have 2.5 year olds with hypermobility who have not long started to walk and having to squeeze down the tiny space next to the car to try and get her out, or manoeuvre her across the backseat, injuring myself, while I watch a lone person walk casually back to the p&c space is ever so slightly f**king annoying.

And here come the army of people who did it with six kids under 1 whilst in a wheelchair...

We were glared at the other day for parking in a P&C space. I was sat in the back with DD and OH was driving. As we have blacked out windows, everyone thought he was a lone man and gave him some stick.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:17:27

Unfortunately spaces for parent & child are not enforceable unlike spaces for disabled people

Not unfortunate enough. P and C spaces are a marketing ploy added bonus. Disabled spaces are needed. There is a big difference

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:18:14

Plenty of supermarkets are fining people fpr misuse of these spaces and I think rightly.

It won't be a legally enforceable fine though.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:19:08

Also they are great for preventing damage to the other cars when your child decides to run ahead slightly and open their door with some force, on the way back.

Ahh so they are great for parents who can't control their children!

curiousgeorgie Thu 28-Feb-13 16:19:08

And for those who proudly proclaim they park in them with no children.. While in the same breath say they are useless (??)... there is a £60 penalty if you are caught in all the supermarkets round here now.

Wheresmygalaxy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:19:11

Maybe there not essential for toddler age children but when i used to have to get the car seat in and out daily and onto the frame of the pram the spaces were a godsend, if i couldnt find 1 id always park miles away from the door making sure that i had enough space to come back, 9 times out of 10 i would come back to find someone had parked right along side me so id have to leave ds in his pram go and move the car round just so i could get him back in, and yes it was a pain when i kept on happeneing.

I dont think this would even be an issue if they moved these spaces to the back of the car park though!

PleasePudding Thu 28-Feb-13 16:19:59

YANBU. It's not a big deal and they are only a courtesy but they make life easier and I don't really get why you'd park there unless you need to. I agree that they should be away from the shop to make them less tempting.

I don't see why people should park in a space not intended for them - P&C parking, disabled parking, double yellow lines, across people's driveways; the full gamut of parking rage.

We bought a car with sliding back doors when we had DD... Can get her in and out in pretty much any space. Problem avoided.

Sliding doors on a car? Best thing ever!

Tailtwister Thu 28-Feb-13 16:21:49

I do think people who do this are very selfish, as are the ones who have children with them but have no intention of getting them out of the car (adult runs into shop, whilst other adult and kids stay in car). IME other parents are usually the worst offenders. Apparently, having a car seat in your car with no child qualifies you nowadays. Also, some people don't seem to realise that teenagers aren't really the equivalent of babies/toddlers either.

Selfish parents, who usually have had the use of these spaces with their own young children seem to have very short memories.

LaalRatty Thu 28-Feb-13 16:21:50

They are essential. I have a fat arse and they give me enough space to heave my gazunking bootie without scraping the car next door. Strangely enough though I manage just fine at home on a normal road with passing cars though...

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:21:56

They are provided as a courtesy, yes, but a courtesy for parents with children.

How does anyone justify using them without? I don't understand. If I go to the shops without my children in tow, I blooming well park in a normal space, further away from the doors and with less space around the car.

Isn't that what you do? I mean, I like to think the parents with their kids will appreciate my leaving their spaces alone.

People sometimes just park there to avoid their sparkly expensive car being scratched.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:24:17

Oh yes and for those of you saying PARK FURTHER AWAY - and lug a huge baby seat 500 yards to the shop rather than 20 yards?

Would YOU like to do that? I mean fgs.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:24:31

People sometimes just park there to avoid their sparkly expensive car being scratched.

Given upthread someone admitted her child running ahead and opening the door into another car perhaps that understandable...

Its a shame car parks cant just make all spaces a bit wider

skratta Thu 28-Feb-13 16:25:00

Not this again....

Have you got salty pop Ron, Tiremumno1? Cos that's the only one I like.

skratta Thu 28-Feb-13 16:25:13

Popcorn!

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:25:39

Yes it is a shame Sirzy. But the main issue for me is the carrying of heavy baby carriers till you can find a suitable trolley to put them down in.

It's bloody hard work. They are really awkward as well as heavy.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:25:48

why not just get the baby out and leave the seat?

I do sometimes wonder how parents ever coped before P and C spaces, or how people who don't drive ever manage to leave the house

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:26:32

Because he is asleep? hmm

woozlebear Thu 28-Feb-13 16:27:37

grin at the 'it's a convenience not a right' brigade. Well, yes, sure, but then so are most things that we deem socially acceptable. It's not like the OP is saying the person contravened her human rights and should be hauled up in the Hague, just that such behaviour is rude and inconsiderate. Would you also say it's unreasonable to get annoyed about people sitting in priority seats on buses not giving up their seats to the elderly etc? Priority seats aren't a right either, but it doesn't stop it being bloody rude to sit there while someone who needs it more struggles to the back.

OP, if you're anything like me, what's upsetting you more is not the actual physical inconvenience (not that that isn't annoying) as much as the outrage of witnessing petty selfishness. YANBU. I don't even have children and it annoys me when I see it!

valiumredhead Thu 28-Feb-13 16:29:06

Imagine for a minute if you don't drive and you have to lug baby, buggy and changing bag etc on the bus <gasp!>

If you struggle to get out of a car how on earth would you manage?!

Panzee Thu 28-Feb-13 16:29:31

I find it really hard to care about this issue. And I have a preschooler and a newborn.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:30:30

Been there and done that Valium. With the 12 tins of catfood under the buggy on the way home.
Plus all the other shopping.

It's really shit and I'm so glad to have a car to use now.

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 16:32:20

I don't care.

woozlebear Thu 28-Feb-13 16:32:55

Valium I don't drive, but always assumed that the whole point of driving is to avoid having to lug that sort of stuff on the bus. Which would then make it really galling - having specifically driven to make it more convenient and pleasant - to find you have to park far away from the shop. I don't really get this logic of 'your supposed inconvenience isn't nearly as inconvenient as x, y or z, therefore you're being a spoiled ninny and I'm going to mock you'.

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 16:33:48

I didn't care on the other 500000000000 threads about this either.

Pancakeflipper Thu 28-Feb-13 16:35:58

I used one of these nice big spaces the other day. I forgot my children were not with me.

I will miss these spaces when the children are grown-up ( is there an age when you have to stop using these spaces?) cos they are lovely and easy to park in.

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 16:36:16

It was a busy retail park that I couldn't walk to. My issue isn't that I need to be near the shop - dont care about that, my issue is not having space to get the kids out. I'm sure back in the day they didn't have p&c spaces but neither did they have big bulky isofix and other carseats that leave less room to get the kids out!

If you don't think they are required then don't complain when your car door gets scratched when someone tries to get their kids out in a normal narrow space!

And she wasn't disabled - there were plenty of disabled bays in any case so if she was she should've parked in them!

TheCrackFox Thu 28-Feb-13 16:37:51

I honestly think P and C spaces should be put furthest from the doors so it will stop people without children parking in them. Lugging a car seat and toddler a couple of hundred yards isn't that big a deal.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:38:20

Again there is no requirement to get car seats out of the car.

And how do you know her health status?

CloudsAndTrees Thu 28-Feb-13 16:41:08

I find it really funny how stressed people get about this.

So you have to 'struggle' for an extra 20 odd seconds to sort your child out? So what? Where is the actual problem?

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:42:01

Ok Sirzy, but I'd like to see you try and do the shopping with a 5 week old baby who rarely sleeps, plus two older children, and get to the car park with your baby asleep in his seat and then WAKE him up - then what do you do with him?

Put him in one of those plastic trolley seats that are massively too big, hard and bumpy and dirty and will not let him sleep at all? Carry him screaming round the shop? Breastfeed as you shop?

Which is it?

Branleuse Thu 28-Feb-13 16:42:22

I've never used them. I don't think they make getting in and out of the car any easier tbh.
There's only ever about 10 and always full, so just use a normal space.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:44:19

If going out is that hard then shop online!

CloudsAndTrees Thu 28-Feb-13 16:45:53

Don't people just put a blanket underneath their baby if they find the plastic seats to hard and dirty? confused

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 16:46:50

We never used them either.

They didn't exist in my day , imagine that shock

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:47:05

You have an answer for everything don't you Sirzy - so I should shop online just because some arse with no kids wants the 'convenience' of parking nearer to the shop?

Yes that's great that is. What if we have run out of something like milk, bread etc - we have to wait a day or two for the delivery, yes? Rather than just, hmm, I dunno, pop to the supermarket?

You're taking the mickey!

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:47:07

That's what I did clouds.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:47:50

Clouds, there would be no point doing that because he'd already have been woken up and would already be screaming.

How long is it since you lot had a newborn baby?

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 16:48:01

YA Soooo NBU. Some shops have teeny parking spaces, like they only want anorexics driving minis to shop there. Honey, if they don't want you buying nappies, food and industrial quantities of wine to get you through the next 16 child raising years, shop about until you find a supermarket with spaces big enough to open the goddamn door and get out x

LaalRatty Thu 28-Feb-13 16:48:18

Can't answer for Sirzy but I'll have a go at this one...

1 do the shopping with a 5 week old baby who rarely sleeps. Check
2 two older children. Check
3 baby asleep in his seat . Check
4 Put him in one of those plastic trolley seats that are massively too big... actually fuck it. Why are you taking a newborn and two older kids shopping when you are clearly frazzled? Do it later? Do it online? Do it alone? Get DP to go? Why make life harder?

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:48:51

Well sorry your the one who is implying you can't manage to shop with your children. That's your problem not somebody else's!

What would you do if all the spaces were full turn around and go home or just park in a normal space?

TheCrackFox Thu 28-Feb-13 16:49:52

I can't even drive so walk to the supermarket. Even with new born babies and hefty toddlers. It never ceases to amaze what a song and bloody dance some drivers make about it all.

Lorelailovesluke Thu 28-Feb-13 16:52:54

I have to confess that I once confronted someone about parking in p&c spaces, I blame hormones!
(I feel cleansed now I have confessed)
Now I could not care.

The one thing I will say is 3 door cars have long doors which mean it is hard to get car seats out, but I always park away from other cars so we can get in and out.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:52:55

'... actually fuck it. Why are you taking a newborn and two older kids shopping when you are clearly frazzled? Do it later? Do it online? Do it alone? Get DP to go? Why make life harder? '

Of course. Why on EARTH would I want to go shopping with my children? Later WHEN?
Online takes a few days or at least 24 hours to arrive. (I should plan better. yes?)
I hate online shopping, there's nothing reduced, they do rubbish substitutions, they bring things you didn't want and leave out stuff you did.

Get DP to go? He fucked off when I was 2 months pregnant.

listen to what you're saying. All this I ought to do precisely why? Because someone without kids wants my parking space.

Gosh anyone would think the MN tagline was 'let's make parents' lives harder'.

steppemum Thu 28-Feb-13 16:53:30

'park at the quiet end of the car park'

eer, well at busy times our carpark is full all over, no quiet spaces

when mine were little I could not lift them into the car and car seat unless I could open the door wide enough.

When very little I lifted them out in car seat, again, door needs to open wide.

I don't care where the P&C spaces are, but when I was little and they didn't have them, we as kids didn't sit in car seats, so if you want kids in car seats then P&C spaces are a natural consequence.

Also, at all the supermarkets I know, there is a footpath alongside the P&C spaces to the shop. If you park at the back of the car park, you can end up with full trolley plus baby plus toddler, dodging reversing cars down the middle of the rows, as no paths.

Which is why YANBU

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:55:13

'Well sorry your the one who is implying you can't manage to shop with your children. That's your problem not somebody else's! '

Yes, unless they're parking in a designated space that would make it a whole lot less trouble for me.

'What would you do if all the spaces were full turn around and go home or just park in a normal space?'

we would park in a normal space as close as we could get, but it would be more difficult. Isn't that fairly obvious?

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:56:05

I wasn't sure the way you were going on you would think it was impossible to leave the house with children unless you have a specially reserved space!

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 16:57:02

oh Ok. Clearly it's not impossible, which is why I use P&T and not disabled spaces.

marjproops Thu 28-Feb-13 16:57:37

Op, YANBU.

And I understand when you say struggling to get kids out of car, especially if they are in child seats and getting buggies out too, trying not to get your car door to hit the next car and therefore be penalised for scratching another car.

People are just lazy and disrespectful and P & C spaces are there for a reason, not a free for all.

whiteflame Thu 28-Feb-13 16:58:17

It is all well and good berating the OP or listing things she could do to avoid needing/wanting to use a P&C space, but they are all beside the point.

There are P&C spaces provided, and she is NBU to expect them to be used properly.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 17:00:05

I have a brilliant idea. Why don't the people WITHOUT kids -

park further away
walk a bit more
stay at home and shop online
get their DP to do it

<awaits award for total genius>

FrankWippery Thu 28-Feb-13 17:00:35

I just park my tank on top of whichever car is in my preferred spot. Much easier.

outside have a hug. It sounds like parking at the supermarket is the least of the shit that is going on in your life.

It will pass, honest it will. flowers

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 17:02:56

thanks OP in lieu of total genius award smile

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 17:03:36

Sorry, Scone, cross posted (very very very slowwww)

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 17:03:57

thankyou smile

LadyWidmerpool Thu 28-Feb-13 17:04:20

Outside It's not your space! Shopping is logistically difficult for lots of people for lots of reasons. Go at a quiet time and there will be lots of room.

LaalRatty Thu 28-Feb-13 17:06:32

Oh ok Outside I get it now. Hope things get better soon. x

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 17:07:02

I know it's not my space, but it's more my space than someone with no kids's space, iyswim?

When btw is a quiet time/ That could be useful.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 17:07:26

Good on you for that Laal - thanks.

specialsubject Thu 28-Feb-13 17:08:59

wow, it's warm in here...

question; if all the disabled spaces are taken, and I have MIL with me (she has a disabled badge), can I use a P and C space?

when it's just me I park at the furthest possible end of the car park. You get far less damage that way.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:09:31

I have arthritis thankfully not bad enough to need to register disabled yet. It mainly effects my knee, when it is bad I will park in a P and C space if one is feee because I need to room to get out of the car easily and it means I don't need to walk as far. If none are free I struggle on but it's easier. When my knee is ok then I don't park in them.

DS has serious asthma so when his chest in bad I will park in P and C spaces irrespective of his age because is easier for him.

Our supermarket also has the pharmacy so sometimes trips can't be avoided.

The problem is often people with children seem to forget that other people have problems in their lives which make shipping harder and for some people they also need to convenience of closer/wider spaces

Maryz Thu 28-Feb-13 17:10:50

Is it ok to park in a parent and child space with my mum?

After all she is a parent and I'm her child.

And she is almost 80

Maybe I need a new thread

I find about half ten to be a good time (except for pension Thursdays) or if your other dc are young enough about 2.30 so that you get there before the schools finish.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:11:04

Outside - i find about 2.45 on weekdays pretty quiet I assume it's because most parents are on the school run ar

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 17:11:54

But not everyone without kids using P&C is disabled.

whathellcall Thu 28-Feb-13 17:12:08

YANBU. I cannot stand the selfish twunty attitude of some people over this. It doesn't matter if you agree with them, never needed them in your day etc.etc.

I had a load of points to make about this but tbh i can't be arsed, it shouldn't have to be explained to a normal prson with a healthy respect for others, just don't fucking use them unless you have a child.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:12:47

But you dont know them or their reasons nay that's my point. You can't tell if someone is disabled or ill by looking at them.

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 17:13:17

We park in them with my mum.

whathellcall Thu 28-Feb-13 17:13:32

Unless you're disabled and there are no disabled bays left.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 17:15:00

Sirzy, I am sorry that you suffer like that.

I have only once in my entire life used a disabled space and that was when I had to register ds, who was 2 days old, and had really bad bronchitis that meant I could barely get out of bed (or drive) and was getting so breathless post partum that I kept nearly passing out.

It was a car park full of disabled spaces, not ONE of them in use, no normal spaces at all (in centre of town behind register building) and the nearest car park was at least a mile away so I parked there for 10 minutes so I could get ds registered. I felt awful about it but couldn't think of an alternative.

It's not something I would normally ever do, let alone try to justify. Your life sounds harder than mine anyway. Of course people have bigger problems than having to carry a heavy baby seat. smile But just, I wish people would not take up the sought after spaces meant for others, disabled or parents/ There's no comparison there but I hope it makes sense.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 17:16:33

I'd be MORE than happy to find a disabled person using a P&T space. More than happy. Ther need is so much greater than mine. It goes without saying.

I do have to do the school run at 2.45ish but 10.30am sounds good. Thanks smile

maddening Thu 28-Feb-13 17:18:07

Well I think they should have valet parking.

FrankWippery Thu 28-Feb-13 17:19:38

Usual - yep, my mum always uses them when she has me too.

MiaowTheCat Thu 28-Feb-13 17:21:06

My husband was put under orders when I got pregnant with one that didn't look likely to miscarry - that if I EVER started to get apocalyptically angsty about P+C spaces - he was to take me aside and have stern words with me.

So far - I've remained un-angsty... if they're full, drive round again on the offchance someone is going, or try the quieter P+C ones round the corner of the store that people tend to forget are there, or I just try to park on a parking aisle end to make sure the door thing's not an issue... or just, shockingly, manage. 99% of the time though (even on Christmas Eve) I can get on the end of one of the rows if the spaces are full.

I get MORE annoyed by the fact our local Tesco won't fit a baby change table to the toilet walls when there's plenty of room for one than to chuck a strop over whoever's in the P+C spaces... plus the way some women go utterly bonkers over it leads to a certain element parking there just for a reaction and a giggle from it.

INeedThatForkOff Thu 28-Feb-13 17:23:34

To those who 'don't care', can I ask why it is that you need to post on a thread to say so?

Contradictory posturing.

xigris Thu 28-Feb-13 17:24:37

Clouds I am so with you on everything you say. I also have no idea why the OP is getting so much flack! I have no problem whatsoever with someone parking in a P&C space without children, if they needed to for some reason eg a broken ankle or something. I don't think anyone's going to moan at them. I do have a problem with people parking in them out of laziness / for convenience. Parking spaces seem so much narrower these days (or maybe cars are bigger?). I'm guessing that the people so outraged at the luxury of P&C spaces have never (as I was) been forced to park in regular space with a small toddler and 9 months preg with PGP. Thanks to a MASSEEEEVE 4x4 practically parking inside my much smaller car I actually physically couldn't get into mine! I had the school run to do so it was a total nightmare. I actually had to get a total stranger to back my car out of the space. This wouldn't have happened had I been able to park in a P&C space.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 17:24:46

So for the folks that aren't disabled - why can't they just not be shit then? 'Oh look - a P&C space! 'm not disabled. I don't have kids with me. I'll not be a cunt and park there just to ruin some post partum Mum's day!!!'

What the fucks wrong with that then Sirzy?

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 17:25:34

What I don't understand is why it's Ok for non parents to want to park conveniently near to the shop, but not Ok for parents to want this? Someone has to use the spaces.

If we all acted like martyrs and didn't need them, parked further away, 'managed', then they would be empty. So how come the un-child-encumbered get to use them and those with kids have to put up and shut up?

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 17:25:44

Sitzy - if she was disabled why didn't she park in one of the million other disabled spaces??

Putting on my hard hat....

Would've been interesting to see the response if I'd of asked AIBU to park in a p&c space with no kids - just because 'they didn't have them in days gone by etc etc!'

And yes I do get the bus sometimes. My point is - it is unreasonable to park in them when u don't have kids!!

I don't make a habit of berating people that use them without kids I just saw this woman do it & had been up all night with teething baby!

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:26:34

No idea Nay, but thats their choice.

Amey - not all people who are disabled are registed disabled. See my earlier post.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 17:28:11

Oh, aren't you one of those people Sirzy? You're very much for them.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:28:35

Outside, there is nothing wrong with people wanting to park near the shop. My issue is when people seem to think that parents have some god given right to and seem to forget that other people have other things in their lives.

As I said earlier, put P and C spaces at the back of shops for those who feel they really need the extra space. Put trolley parks near them with the baby trolleys in. Or even better just make all spacers wider but places won't do that because it means they loose some of their spaces.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:29:07

Oh, aren't you one of those people Sirzy? You're very much for them.

what?

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 17:30:13

Well you're saying it's okay for folk to crap on other people, just because they can. No, it's not okay.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 17:30:59

Yes if there were baby trolleys available it would be fine to be further away.

Tiredmumno1 Thu 28-Feb-13 17:31:52

<salted n sweet popcorn for those who wanted some> smile

TheFallenNinja Thu 28-Feb-13 17:32:04

Why risk getting a slap? Life's too short.

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 17:32:08

Maybe they should scrap p&c spaces and just make normal spaces wider than they are so everyone can manage grin peace and harmony!!

gordyslovesheep Thu 28-Feb-13 17:33:07

how do you know they didn't have kids with them when they parked - I had some idiot give me filthy looks the other day for daring to return childless

thing is I did have all 3 with me - one had an opticians apt and it ran late which meant my ex came to meet us and took them home with him ...leaving me to return to a C+P space ALONE <clutch your pearls and bunch up your knickers>

Bakingtins Thu 28-Feb-13 17:33:38

YANBU to be annoyed. The supermarkets should site the spaces further away from the shop then lazy buggers wouldn't take them. I use a P+C space, I don't need it near the door, I just need to be able to open the doors properly to strap kids into seats. I normally do just park far away from the shop where it's quiet, but there's always the risk someone will park right next to me and when I get back I won't be able to get the kids back in.

MeSoFunny Thu 28-Feb-13 17:34:33

I don't have a car and shop online. No danger of mingling with the world's irritants that way.

VikingLady Thu 28-Feb-13 17:36:54

Put a dog poo in their hood?

grin

AmIGoingMad Thu 28-Feb-13 17:45:22

Amey I would say YANBU at all!
This is something that really winds me up too. I'm not bothered by the proximity to the shop, more by the space. If there isn't one available, fair enough and I'll park further away to get more space. I do think its unreasonable of others without children to use them just because it makes life easier and for no real need. It's just really inconsiderate in my opinion as very often these people just don't want to walk another few yards and couldn't care less about the inconvenience they cause to those who are entitled to use the space.

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 17:45:42

And I didn't say I couldn't get the kids out of the car if I didn't use a p&c space I said it makes it much harder & why should I struggle when there are spaces designed for making this easier?? But people using them who don't necessarily need to??

ApplyYourself Thu 28-Feb-13 17:46:24

I use them all the time.

After all, they don't specify that you have to have your children with you do they?

TarkaTheOtter Thu 28-Feb-13 17:48:43

To those saying "we didn't have them in my day and coped fine" - my nan used to say that about electricity and indoor toilets.

Iwantmybed Thu 28-Feb-13 17:54:47

Online shopping!!!!!
biscuit brew

whiteflame Thu 28-Feb-13 17:55:01

It's not a god given right Sirzy, but they do have a right if they are designated dP&C spaces!

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 17:55:14

I need a glass of wine

xigris Thu 28-Feb-13 17:55:30

Apply the P&C spaces in my local Tesco and sainsburys do specify that they are for people shopping with a child. In sainsburys there's the threat of a £50 if they're misused

Possiblyoutedled Thu 28-Feb-13 17:55:33

These threads always go the same way but the thing is they are there and are to make life a bit easier for people with a young child and no it's not the end if the world if you don't get one but it is selfish and lazy to use one if you are able bodied and without a child.
I had sections and it was a bit uncomfortable for me to carry the car seat for a while after. I didn't freak out if I didn't get a space but its just a tiny bit easier and what's so wrong with that?
I don't use them now as dd is two so can walk but I stil think its a bit knobish to use them if you don't need to.
I don't think it's entitled for someone to make use of something which is specifically for them.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:58:07

. In sainsburys there's the threat of a £50 if they're misused

such fines aren't legally enforceable though

chubbychipmonk Thu 28-Feb-13 18:00:15

No you ANBU, struggled the other day to squeeze 3 year old out a his car seat ( being 37 weeks pregnant not helping) then hobbled to the other end of the car park where the shops were while some idiot woman sauntered back to her car right next to the door to the parent & child space with not a child in sight! Grrrrrrrrrrrr

dummad Thu 28-Feb-13 18:02:34

The spaces are near to the store because it prevents small children having to walk behind cars as they are reversing etc (think blind spots and a toddler not visible in your rear view mirror) In short P&C spaces are not for convenience they are for child safety. YANBU. I might challenge someone myself if I was in the mood for a fight.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:02:36

This is a fascinating insight into human nature - no wonder the MPs filled their boots. 'Well there's nothing in the rules saying I shouldn't screw other people over. I can get away with it ' grin

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 18:05:27

It's broken Britain.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 18:05:38

think blind spots and a toddler not visible in your rear view mirror surely toddlers in a car park are being held by an adult so why would that matter?

Possiblyoutedled Thu 28-Feb-13 18:05:39

Carefull if you challenge though. I got shouted at by a bloke in asda car park "git a kid have ya?" He bellowed.
"Yes thankyou she's 8 months would you like to see her?"
He screeched off. I saw him and his wife in the shop later with their SCHOOL AGED chikdren. Gish how they must have needed that space.

Possiblyoutedled Thu 28-Feb-13 18:06:34

My os have become is

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 18:07:45

They are for school aged children confused

Not just babies.

dummad Thu 28-Feb-13 18:08:45

Furthermore, it saves paint work. The number of times my DCs have flung their doors open as soon as the engine is off and hit the neighbouring car is, well, loads. If that selfish arse had left me a wider P&C space that new Mercedes would not have a dent on the passenger side and I'd not be having an argument with the owner over insurance. grin

xigris Thu 28-Feb-13 18:09:20

Sirzy I'm not a lawyer but why are the fines not legally enforceable?

dummad Thu 28-Feb-13 18:09:40

Sirzy not if you have bags carrying and three if them i'n tow.

giraffesCantDateDucks Thu 28-Feb-13 18:09:57

I have parked in a P&C space with no child in the car when my lungs have been very very bad. The kind of bad where I am breathless talking even at rest. If it evens it up though, then I often have a child and toddler in car and just park in normal spaces with them.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:10:18

think blind spots and a toddler not visible in your rear view mirror surely toddlers in a car park are being held by an adult so why would that matter?

confused

Yeah they never just pull free and run off like they're 2 years old while you're pushing a wobbly trolley now do they....

I just want to know where this fabled 'quiet bit of the car park' is? There certainly isn't one in my part of London!

I love having a bit of banter with the childless parkers, but then I'm an argumentative bitch and it brightens up my day...

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 18:13:43

sit your child in the wobbly trolley? sorry but its parents jobs to teach children how to behave in a car park. How do people cope in places without P and C spaces?

children not being closely supervised in car parks is a massive bug bear of mine

Oh come on. You can't possibly blame a 2 year old running into a car park on someone being parked in the P&C space.

There were no P&C spaces when I had dd and DS. They never ran out in the car park, into a blind spot.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:14:50

Idiots are a massive bugbear of mine, but hey, that's life :D

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:15:33

And what if your 1 year old's already in the trolley huh?

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 18:15:55

i would say people who let a 2 year old run off in a car park fall into the idiot category

amothersplaceisinthewrong Thu 28-Feb-13 18:16:30

I would just tell you that I was picking up my child from teh local creche. It is only very occasionally and when it hurts my back to walk far that I would use one anyway though.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 18:16:38

errmm get one with 2 seats! use a wrist strap or reigns to keep your child close?

toffeelolly Thu 28-Feb-13 18:16:43

Yes agree p , b should be further away from the shop. Or local tesco store have p , b space's beside the door's you never could get one of them , then some more at the back further away and you are alway's sure to get one of them, think that say's it all.

LadyPessaryPam Thu 28-Feb-13 18:18:21

YANBU, I would never use these spaces if I was not with small children. I don't understand all the people on here who think you should just suck it up. The spaces are designated for people with children, so you are completely entitles to expect them to be used that way.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:19:14

It's not a case of letting them run. It's a case of them being 2 and not knowing any better.

dummad Thu 28-Feb-13 18:20:10

Look, it's a health and safety issue for the supermarket. If it saves ONE child from getting hurt then they'll do it. If a child gets hit because they've walked behind twenty cars and one of them hits them then it's a sensible thing to do isn't it? Stop kids walking behind parked cars and they won't get hit when they reverse. No one cares about why or if they should have been there in the first place or why they weren't on reins or whatever.

Yes but clearly as the parent you do know better.
So you do not put them in a position where they could conceivably run into a car FFS.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:20:41

So what if a 2 seater's not available? And you forgot your reigns?

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:21:07

'children not being closely supervised in car parks is a massive bug bear of mine'

You'd not have to worry about it if parents with small children were able to park nearer to the shop. Walking through a car park IS dangerous. Whether or not you're too small to be seen in rear view mirrors.

it's just another reason for having P&T spaces.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:23:05

So people with children should never leave home Tantrums?

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 18:23:07

still soesnt change the fact you are responsible for your childs safety.

How do these people who cant walk their child across a car park safely manage to walk anywhere near a road?

Are you actually asking what to do?

Is that really a question? So, if you forgot your reins and you only had a single seat trolley and no P&C space, what would you do?

Because I don't think you can blame the idiots in the P&C space if you wouldn't know what to do in that situation.

wibblyjelly Thu 28-Feb-13 18:23:54

DS is 5 months old. Myself and DH have so far gotten this far without using a p&c parking space. It nay make life a bit easier, but they are not needed. What did parents do before they were invented?

MooMooSkit Thu 28-Feb-13 18:24:39

So just like it's not non parents problem for parking in parent spots, it's also not our problem then if someone who is "ill" but can't get a badge so uses a P&C surely?? Everyone, particuarly one poster on here is so goodey goodey. Just be quiet seriously. it's quite easy to understand, you have a kid, park in it, you don't have a kid, don't flippin park in it. Jesus christ if i used my chronic illness for every excuse to park in them it would just be taking the piss. I can't believe this topic always always gets flamed!! Serious is it really that HARD to NOT park in P&C if you don't have a kid?? If your really soo poorly and ill and MUST have extra room go to the back instead jesus christ, we can't make rules for everyone! Oh and not everyone likes shopping online as people like reductions and not all of us like to have subs all the time!

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:24:49

Roads are a lot more predictable than car parks though.

In a car park you never know if someone is about to reverse/drive out of a space, on a road you just have to look in one direction at any point. In a car park anything can move out on you.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:25:02

and there's often no paths in a car park.

Well, obviously I didn't imply anywhere that people with children should never leave home.
But people with children should most definitley make sure their children do not run off in a car park.

And there are other ways to do that other than parking in a P&C space.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:25:38

What, would that mean I wouldn't still need shopping?

So if you've more than one kid, you're so busy you forgot your reigns and there aren't enough kids trollys, you no longer need to buy food and stuff?????

Really????

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 18:26:48

so people for whom walking is agony should struggle so parents who cant cope with getting a child from the car safely have a bit more space? and your accusing other people of taking the piss?

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 18:28:16

exactly tantrums. It seems we are amongst the few on here who take responsibility for our children's safety!

NayFindus what on earth are you reading??

Where did anyone say you wouldn't need shopping??

In very simple terms, here's what you do. you make sure your 2 year old doesn't run into a car park
Why is that so hard to imagine?
What on earth do you do if you go to a car park without P&C parking?
Let your DCs run free?
Of course not.

dummad Thu 28-Feb-13 18:28:49

I don't understand why you are so keen to defend the rights of people who are unable or unwilling to follow a simple request. There is proof that P&C spaces saves lives of children. If keeping them free saves just one child's life in the UK then that's good enough for me. It might be goody goody, so what? It's also just plain common sense.

stormforce10 Thu 28-Feb-13 18:29:30

YANBU but personally I couldn't be bothered and i think its a bit petty.

If you must do this though make sure first they do not have a child. Someone did this to my mum once. She had dd aged 9 months in the car and was about to get the pram and get her out. Before she could a woman raced up to her and aggressively told her she could only park there with a small child. My mum just completely ignored her and carried on getting dd out of the car and they walked off muttering something about my mum looking too old to have children shock Mum called out "better too old than too stupid"

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:29:41

it's bonkers that people are coming up with so many reasonswhy people shouldn't need to use P&T spaces when they have children - but why in that case is it fine for those without to use them unchallenged? surely they have even LESS need to use them? confused

Every reason why a parent shouldn't use them can be equally applied to a non parent (unless disabled of course).

What is this massive investment in people not using P&T spaces with children?

I don't get what is in it for anyone else if parents don't use them. Unless you want them for yourself of course. In which case how does your need trump the parents' need?

Or are people just trying to get one up by proving they are 'well ard' enough not to need a P&T space? Fine if so - that's great but some of us find them really, really valuable.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:31:02

Sirzy you may be talking about little local shops like mine that have 2 disabled and 2 P&C spaces. I can't park there but that's okay because I can park in the residential street outside and walk in. I'm talking about the large supermarkets, where there are 20+ disabled spaces, and non disabled people use P&C.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:32:47

'so people for whom walking is agony should struggle so parents who cant cope with getting a child from the car safely have a bit more space? and your accusing other people of taking the piss? '

sirzy, I think the problem here is that you are not simply arguing that parents shouldn't complain if people use the parent spaces; it'sthat you're arguing that disabled people should trump parents, even if they have no children - right?

I'd totally concur with this view and I think many of us would.

But that's not the simplistic issue we're dealing with in this thread I think - this is about non disabled, non parents using P&T spaces.

So I think you're having a diferent argument?

Well that's terrific. They are useful to you. And every other parent presumably who is unable to either stop their child running into a car park. Or who cannot remove a child from a car in a normal sized space.
I presume those people only go to places with P&C parking. Otherwise they would get to their destination and be stuck in the car, no?

I actually am so unfazed by who parks where.

I just find it amazing that giving birth seems to mean these days that you cannot walk more than 2 feet in case your child gets into the car park behind a parked car. And that you are unable to open a door and remove a child.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:34:32

Tantrums I don't. As I said upthread, I figured if they couldn't make the damn space large enough for me to open my door properly, I would shop somewhere else that did, and I do. That does not solve the problem that young children will bolt unexpectedly, and it may be as you're walking through a car park. If you could park in P&C which is next to the walkway it is much less dangerous.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:34:41

That isn't quite the point I'm making Tantrums.

Doingthedo Thu 28-Feb-13 18:35:27

it's not about the distance for me, it's about being able to open the car door wide enough to get a car seat out, quite difficult in a 'normal' space

NayFindus again, it's your responsibility to make sure they do not bolt into the car park.
People managed this without P&C parking and walkways or paths or whatever else.

So, what do you do if you go somewhere with no P&C parking?
How do you stop your child bolting?

IvorHughJangova Thu 28-Feb-13 18:36:55

I've been called a cunt on here three times in eight or so years. And every time was on one of these threads grin So I ain't saying nuffink....

crashdoll Thu 28-Feb-13 18:38:32

How do you know the people using the P&C spaces aren't disabled?

Ah come on ivor you might as well go for a full house grin

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:40:07

I park in a normal sized space at a different supermarket next to the walkway. There are always spaces there, even if it's right at the edge of the car park you still get to exit your car and go straight on the walkway, then you don't have to worry about a car suddenly appearing that you didn't see because it was going too fast and you had your eye on the kids. All the spaces are large enough without having to be P&C.

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen Thu 28-Feb-13 18:41:00

Wow 196 posts.

Anyone had a genuine case of dissolved baby yet?

I don't see how having a bit of extra space around your car prevents bolting DC anyway.

No pink

Because people cannot physically get out the car if there is no P&C space, therefore their DC will never have to get soaked/frozen/sunburnt walking an extra 5 feet

IvorHughJangova Thu 28-Feb-13 18:43:20

How do you know the people using the P&C spaces aren't disabled?

Anyone else got their bingo cards out? Full house is right Tantrums grin

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:43:58

I think babies getting rained on is among the least of the worries mentioned on here. In fact it hasn't been mentioned at all, has it?

It usually is outthere

Very valid reason not to park in a normal space.

FutTheShuckUp Thu 28-Feb-13 18:47:40

If I parked in a P&C space with no child and they issued me a 'penalty' I would not pay and nobody would be able to make me. Hardly a deterrant

thebody Thu 28-Feb-13 18:48:00

I childminded 4 chikdren last year and have had 4 of my own.

My parents are old and doddery and they need to park nearer the shops than I do.

Disabled people need more spaces. Parents don't.

Get a bloody grip and put them in the trolly straight from the car.

If kids are running into the path of cars then bloody restrain them with reins or hold their hands or shock horror discipline them and teach them road safety.

fallon8 Thu 28-Feb-13 18:48:03

I managed to get four kids in a supermarket without parking at the first checkout,so can you,,if I was designing a supermarket car park,I would put those spaces right at the back,to make kids get the exercise

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:49:03

Right so shall we sum up?

1. Disabled trumps parent-with-child in any respect

2. Parent with tiny child/baby trumps parent of school aged or teenage child, nuff said

3. It ain't about getting wet

4. SOME car parks have tiny spaces meaning physically getting out the car when pregnant/having baby seat etc is impossible
(not all - and if yours doesn't, bully for you! But some do)

5. walking a long way with a baby seat is shit and very bad for you esp if you have had a section etc (or have other errant children to hold on to/chase)

6. People's children DO occasionally cause damage to other cars despite best efforts/child locks etc (best invention ever) which is another reason for P&T

7. If you have no small children and no other reason to be parking there other than sheer convenience then your need does not trump that of a parent with a child, because they too want convenience, PLUS they have a small child

8. Being nearer to the shop does obviously reduce likelihood of children being injured in car park

Is that everything?

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:50:21

'Get a bloody grip and put them in the trolly straight from the car.'

how do you accomplish this without parking right next to the shop? Do you leave the kids in the car while you go and get the trolley?

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:50:39

It doesn't Beer but P&C are on walkways, so you can tell them to stay on the walkway. You can't do that if you have to park at the edge of the car park where there are no pedestrian walkways.

nellyjelly Thu 28-Feb-13 18:50:42

It is the sense of entitlement some people have about parking in the p and c spaces. By this I mean those who DON'T have kids with them. I wouldn't dream of being lazy and parking there to the detriment of people with babies.

9 if not being able to park in a P&C parking space upsets you to the extend that you cannot control your child or get out of the car, you are probably better off doing your shopping online.
And avoiding all car parks in case it happens again.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:52:22

this is it Nelly. I have three kids including said baby. I never park in P&T unless I have a child with me. It's common courtesy on my part surely?

And I'd like to be able to expect that from others too.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:52:31

or shock horror discipline them and teach them road safety

What, and a 2 year old will understand that?

Nay then tell them to stand in a safe place. Next to you. Next to the car.
What's the big deal?

I don't get it. Or if you can't do that invest in reins.

FutTheShuckUp Thu 28-Feb-13 18:53:21

To the detriment?
Come on, it doesn't equal a life time of ill health and woe due to having to park in a normal space- I mean some people (not me!) would say you were lucky just to have a car to park in a space at all!

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 18:53:33

Tantrums, no one is saying we NEED these spaces or we can't go shopping. We're saying they make life easier.

Hell, they are making the person with no kids who needs the cashpoint's life easier so why not ours?

So if you don't need it, if it's just to make life easier what's the drama?

That's what I don't understand.

People are saying they have to park there because they cannot keep their DCs safe otherwise, it's ludicrous.

If there's a space, park in it. If not, park elsewhere.

I'd like to park directly outside my house every night after work. It would make my life easier. But I don't scream and shout about people parking in the space outside my house. I park up the road a bit.
And none of my children have ever run into the road because of that.

Objecting to something, like parent-and-child spaces, that make parents' lives a bit easier, seems really petty to me. Of course they aren't vital, in the way that disabled spaces are, but they make shopping a bit easier.

OK, so I can't park as close to the store as I used to be able to when the dses were little and were with me - but that genuinely doesn't upset me. I am not jealous of parents using P&C spaces - it is no skin off my nose, and helps them a bit.

Honestly - why are some people so mean-spirited?

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 18:58:32

What's the big deal?

The big deal is I'm not a robot, and neither are kids. Sometimes I'll forget the reins, sometimes they'll bolt at the most inconvenient moments. If the supermarket wasn't so greedy they could make decent size spaces or put more pedestrian walkways in. Or both. And the one that has is the one I shop at smile

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 18:59:49

Tantrum - its not about not being able to remove a child in a 'normal space' its the point of - why should some one (not disabled or otherwise) park in that space when they don't have a child?

And If there really was no need for the p&c spaces like lots are implying then why the f*ck do SO many shops provide them????!

All I'm suggesting us that people who don't need them be considerate and don't use them and I don't see how anyone can argue with that??!

Yes I didn't know the lady who used one today wasn't actually disabled but surely if she was she a)would of used a disabled bay or b) said so and told me to mind my own business???! I don't believe for one minute she 'had a child in the shop down there' if it had of been me & that was the case id of said 'would you like to come and see my child??! And been very pissed off!!! Instead she just mumbled whatever - guilty as charged!

nellyjelly Thu 28-Feb-13 19:00:09

Yes mean spirited exactly. Why can't people just let parents have a little perk to make life easier? FFS.

But they haven't.

So I still don't understand the major upset this causes.

If there's a space, park in it. If not park elsewhere.

Supermarkets etc may be badly designed but honestly, it's a minute part of anyone's life.
How can one car parking space cause so much angst?

Just get on with it.

marjproops Thu 28-Feb-13 19:01:49

As for online food shopping...well, can you really trust a delivery lorry that probably delivers to a few places in one go and maybe you're the last on the list and maybe it gets stuck in traffic etc by the time you get yours anything frozen/fridgey will be thawed?

give me a trip to the supermarket any day.

BTW DC is disabled Im fighting for a blue badge, until then we never park in dasabled or P&C, Im currently on crutches too, (can drive though, got bad knees) and still park in normal spaces, bet if i tried anywhere else wed be 1st to be fined, yet how do others get away with it?

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 19:02:04

It's really basic, Tantrums. People get upset about it because the person parking there with no need to, and no child with them, is stopping someone for whom it would make life easier from using that space.

That's all really. It's selfish, and people being selfish can upset others.

It may be a minute part of life, but I can remember having small children, and how everything seemed like a struggle, and how a minute thing could just be the last straw - or how, on the other hand, a little bit of kindness, or a little thing going my way (like finding a P&C space free when I needed it) could make the day seem brighter and a bit easier.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 19:05:49

But the thing is you don't know why the person is parking there so by having a go at someone you could be having a go at someone who has a very valid reason to park there and upset them. If someone is parking there because they are selfish then you telling them off isn't going to change things.

Using excuses about not being able to control your child well sorry thats not the supermarkets problem, nor is it other drivers problems. If you can't control your child in a car park then you need to learn to to keep them safe everywhere.

I still stand by my earlier comment that they should be at the back of the car park.

FrankWippery Thu 28-Feb-13 19:09:27

P&C are always on walkways? Are they fuck.

Threads like this make me want to get my 2 driving children in their cars, and me and park across the fucking spaces. I could of course argue that I'm the parent and they're the children. Though I find this argument is held up nicely when I take my pre-school DD along too.

Have a bolter? Make sure you always have a set of reins/dog lead/spare belt in the car and tie up kid before you open the car door. Better still tie kid to bike stands, then you can shop in peace. What's not to like. Even better than that, do it on a rainy day, thus negating any need for bath time chaos.

Sirzy - you are right that P&C spaces could be further away from the shop - though it would make parents' lives a bit easier if they made sure there were trolleys with child seats nearby, and a walkway to the store. That would seem a perfectly reasonable compromise to me.

Anyone see Alison Lapper on Child Of Our Time last night? She told her DS to stand next to the car and he did. As a 12 yr old he said he knew not to run off when he was little, because she told him not to.

I don't see why that's beyond the whit of any parent of a NT toddler/young child, really.

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 19:15:07

there's a supermarket in the next town, a HUGE tesco and they have a nice covered walkway all the way across to the far side of the car park. The P&T go along the edge of this walkway. It's brilliant. (still no trolleys but hey)

But last time we were there some tosser still parked right in a P&T space, by the walkway, all the way across the other end - we luckily got the next, and only remaining space next to them. Baby ds was only a couple of weeks old, it was minus something, snowing and I was struggling with the bloody pushchair in the boot and getting the car seat onto it (we then struggled to manage all the shopping with two baskets and said pushchair)

My guess is the people thought, Oh, no one will mind us using this space as it's so far from the shop.

So however far away you put them, people will still use them when they have no kids/other reason to.

FrankWippery Thu 28-Feb-13 19:16:38

Well quite, Beer. Sums it up nicely.

GoSuckEggs Thu 28-Feb-13 19:16:42

i would have told you to fuck off and mind your own buisness. She was very polite to at least try and make up a lie in my opinion!

FrankWippery Thu 28-Feb-13 19:19:27

There's that too GoSuckEggs grin

soverylucky Thu 28-Feb-13 19:20:16

I don't see the point of p and c spaces tbh. When my dd's were little I parked as far away form the entrance as possible. No-one parked there so I had plenty of space.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 19:22:49

To be honest, you never see children bolting in car parks, or tethered to their children in the supermarket. I only ever see reins when folks are out for a walk or in the park. So folk that do have bolters probably do find ways of shopping without the kids. But you still have to take the kids shopping sometimes even if you'd rather not, and you still have to get the car seat out the back. And it's easier and safer at a P&C place.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 19:24:01

You don't HAVE to get the car seat out of the back. I did it for about a week after DS was born before I realised it was a waste of time and effort!

dummad Thu 28-Feb-13 19:24:12

The debate has nothing to do with how good parents are at looking after their children in a car parks. Accidents are a fact of life and parenting is irrelevant. In fact I had to hit the back of a people carrier the other day who reversed out when I was behind it to get it to stop in time. I'm dumb struck that there are people who will argue the fact these spaces are not necessary because it's up to the parents to control their children. What's wrong with supermarkets helping parents keep children safe? If parents have just a marginal need over those without - whether convenience, space requirement or otherwise, then they are necessary.

BeerTricksPotter - we aren't all perfect parents all of the time, nor are our children perfect all the time.

Yes, parents should have their toddlers under control and safe all the time, but it seems really churlish to object to something that makes it a bit easier for parents to keep their children safe.

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 19:27:18

Gosuckeggs - I was very polite and not all aggressive just said 'these are p&c spaces you know?' - she may not have realised. If she had of told me to fuck off and mind my own business its clear she thinks she's doing something wrong!

Don't really see how people can argue this - its just inconsiderate to park in them if you don't need to! And we all know that lots of people do!! Pre DC my DB did because he didn't want people to scratch his s2000! But now he has children he gets how selfish that was grin!

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 19:29:48

Dammit, I was hoping that if I trained my baby well enough he wouldn't roll off the cot-without-sides we bought him.

Or fall from the pushchair-without-harness I got, not wanting to demand one with straps

If I am a good parent he won't lean too far over the front and fall on his head, because he'll know when I say it that I really mean it.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 19:29:49

What d'you do if a trolley without a baby rest isn't available then Sirzy?

SDTG, I just don't see how it does keep toddlers safe tbh. If you have a Bolter then surely a bit of extra space round your parking space is neither use nor ornament?

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 19:32:23

Beer they are often near a footpath, or at least, nearer the store so less car park to cross.

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 19:34:34

Sirzy - that's just your choice not to get Carseat out. And its not really about that.

IMO gets ready for lashing people are jealous that p&c spaces are provided! Pre dc I wouldn't of dreamt of parking in one - even if I was ill or whatever! And when I don't take the kids with me I relish at the freedom of parking in a normal space and not needing extra space and time!

Lets write to tesco etc and suggest 'I'm lazy and can't be arsed to walk too far spaces' 'I feel a bit shit & hungover spaces' 'I do have kids but they're at home spaces' 'I don't have kids but I don't see why people who have them should have p&c spaces!'

No wonder the worlds like it is if people are so inconsiderate day to day.

And I'd never thought of the safety aspect but you know that's true, and another reason people who don't need them shouldn't use them!

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 19:35:51

I know it was my choice, but all I said was people don't NEED to. There is a difference between a need and a choice.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 19:36:33

beer if there's enough space you can leave your trolley beside the car whilst you get the bolter in it first, without worrying about your trolley being in other cars way.

MedicinalPurposes Thu 28-Feb-13 19:38:35

Gordon Bennett. It's obviously not as important as the Pope covering up for child molesters, but I don't see what the problem is with having a space designed to make certain people's lives slightly easier used by those people, who will appreciate the extra convenience.

If you can park in a space two inches wide and get your seven children out whilst juggling fire and dancing in a hammock, well whoop-de-fucking-do for you, but why do you think not being a selfish, entitled cunt and leaving these for the people they are designed for is such an issue? Why are some of you apologists for the selfish? Yes, there can be other reasons for people to park there, but we've all seen the fit young men or women with no encumbrances choose those because just they feel like it.

And why say "well, they should put them further away so they don't"? Why not say "well, selfish cunts shouldn't park in them"?

And for some of you, your desperation to show how little you care seems rather pathetic...

GoSuckEggs Thu 28-Feb-13 19:39:31

I was very polite and not all aggressive just said 'these are p&c spaces you know?' - she may not have realised. If she had of told me to fuck off and mind my own business its clear she thinks she's doing something wrong!

Not at all, If i parked there and you asked me and i told you to fuck off and mind your own, it is not because i think i am doing wrong it is simply because i think you need to piss off and keep your self to your self and not talk to me. she may not hav realised - or just didnt give a shit.

Yy, Outside, but a firm grip on a small hand is a firm grip on a small hand, surely?

Our supermarket had a major overhaul and put the P&C spaces at 3 points around the extended carpark. Much much further away than they used to be from the main entrance.

Surprise surprise, despite new pedestrian walkways next to them (not covered) and trolley parks stocked with trolleys with seats etc, there isn't the same mad scramble for them as there used to be when they were the nearest to the store, next to the Disabled spaces. hmm

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 19:42:09

I bet that makes the disabled spaces even more of a target for the non disabled, non parents Beer?

OutsideOverThere Thu 28-Feb-13 19:43:15

also children have been known to relinquish said grip and take off. You can't always make sure they stay put however hard you try.

nellyjelly Thu 28-Feb-13 19:46:18

At the gym I go to all the p and t spaces are taken up with Ferraris, Landrovers and other large expensive cars who don't want their paintwork damaged. No car seats. This happens everytime I go and when the 5 p and t spaces are full, guess what they go. In the disabled spaces. No car seats, no blue badges.

It is the same sense of entitlement and lack of consideration that makes them use the blue badge spaces. The gym do eff all about it so wonder why they even bother providing them.

thebody Thu 28-Feb-13 19:46:19

Or she may have something really serious or worrying going on in her life at the moment and really didn't notice or just simply couldn't begin to care that someone somewhere had had a baby or toddler and so desperately needs to park a few hundred yards nearer the store.

If its space needed to open doors then park further away, there are always spaces at the far end. Kids need to walk.

Hey ho!

bedmonster Thu 28-Feb-13 19:47:18

I agree with the op in that its fucking irritating! When ds was in the first carseat that you get in and out of the car, you need to be able to open the door wide enough to get the seat out. I have a 3 door car which means my doors are slightly longer than a car with 5 doors. The logistics mean I need to be able to open the door nearly 2ft. The p&c spaces are great because you have the space to do that. For most people, its convenient. Not a right, no, but something to make life a little easier. When there are none of these spaces available I just park further away so I can open the door and get him out. Of course there aren't any trolley bays around but I carry him to one.
And then of course some nob ends up parking really close to me while I'm in the shop so I can't get him back in again and I'm tempted to ram my door into their car.
No, these spaces didn't used to exist, but they do now as it makes life a bit easier and, you know, we have evolved as a whole to make life more convenient for everyone. Online banking, online shopping, drive thru takeaways. All there to convenience others.

thebody Thu 28-Feb-13 19:47:37

To add never ever would I condone parking in a disabled space.

There is no comparison.

nellyjelly Thu 28-Feb-13 19:48:49

Yes she may have had the weight of the world on her shoulders......What??? We are supposed to calculate every terrible thing that may be going on in someones life before being annoyed at them? Hilarious.

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 19:51:14

Gosuckeggs - you sound like such a lovely person to be around... NOT!

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 19:51:36

Or perhaps Nelly just keep quite? Be quietly annoyed and then get on with life?

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 19:53:50

If someone asks me a reasonable question I wouldn't tell them to fuck off! angry Unless of course I was doing something wrong and was embarassed I'd been caught out!!

They are shit hot on monitoring the Disabled spaces, Outside grin I've seen them move people on from them several times.

It's actually really well designed, taking on board all the reasonable points on this thread about space to open car doors/bollarded walkway etc. Just not right next to the entrance, as parents and toddlers really don't need to be protected from the Long Walk Across The Car Park.

YANBU at all

Absolutely disgusting.

I mean, check this out for some really inconsiderate P&C parking.

GoSuckEggs Thu 28-Feb-13 19:56:33

Ameybee- you sound like such a nosey irritating person to be around!

Ameybee Thu 28-Feb-13 19:57:28

Rather be nosy and irritating than aggressive and rude! shock

TarkaTheOtter Thu 28-Feb-13 19:58:20

The last two times I parked at the back of the car park someone parked next to me before I got back. Some people seem to like parking next to other cars.
I have a small car, but where I live (rural) most people have 4x4s. The spaces are tiny. I have had to get in on the wrong side despite parking in the middle of my space a few times.

The main reason I like using p+c parking is so that I don't have to put my dd in the pushchair/trolley where cars are reversing etc. I don't care where they are in the car park.

crashdoll Thu 28-Feb-13 19:58:51

I wish people would fuck the fuck off with judging people as non-disabled because they don't "look" disabled. Hello and welcome to 2013 where the world recognises that most disabilities are actually invisible!

How very dare you expect that a facility created for a particular group should be left free to be used by that group! the idea.
In the real world, disabled spots are for people with disabilities.
parent and child spots are for people with small children.
however, OP, you have wandered into the parallel universe of mumsnet where expecting to use the spot created for the convenience of people like you is tantamount to admitting to a taste for live kittens boiled in oil.
you are going to be roasted by people who are otherwise sensible and considerate, excepting this issue.
It's like, a mumsnet rule.

GoSuckEggs Thu 28-Feb-13 20:00:26

<claps> Well done!! you are VERY successfully being nosy and irritating, i think with a bit more practice you could also get a gold star for aggresiveness and rudeness. <claps again>

Fillyjonk75 Thu 28-Feb-13 20:03:10

The only time I would have said something would be if someone jumped into a p&c space I was about to go in and didn't have children in the car, when DDs were little.

I have given several hard stares to other P&C space abusers though.

I don't see why people give "Oh give them a break, they might be having a bad day" on here as a excuse when any other sort of bad parking is treated with total disdain and abject criticism, in this forum.

Bizarre kind of self-flagellation, given most of us are parents and have benefitted from the odd p&c space at one time or another. Or maybe people have short memories of struggling with babies and toddlers, or were obviously superwomen.

crashdoll Thu 28-Feb-13 20:03:43

In the real world, disabled spots are for people with disabilities.
parent and child spots are for people with small children

In the real world, disabled spaces are mandatory whereas P&C places are not.

gimmeanaxe Thu 28-Feb-13 20:05:27

thankyou for a highly entertaining read grin So much angst over parking. Next time I'm shopping on the bus I might ask the bus driver if he wouldnt mind parking in a P&C space wink so I dont have to lug shopping and kids half a mile up the hill in case they melt/run away etc. Oh wait. They dont.

TomArchersSausage Thu 28-Feb-13 20:07:01

Just out of interest, what is the upper age limit perceived to be for p&c spaces? I bet everyone has a different take on that. Where does it all end??confused

I'm only a casual bystander in all this nowadays thank god. I've done my time re dc/parking.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 20:07:41

Notice how the folk tht don't get the point of not using something not meant for them are all so lovely...

Fillyjonk75 Thu 28-Feb-13 20:07:42

You are perfectly reasonable by the way, OP. Don't let the Femail readers who hate other women grind you down.

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 20:09:00

Ok gosuckeggs -sorry- in reality I'm sure you are not awful to be around and I am not irritating and nosy.... Just completely knackered and pissed off today so decided yes this issue did really piss me off. I'm sure we all have days like this... Normally I'd be quietly irritated! Honestly - I'm actually really nice grin wink- I reversed into someone's car yesterday & a man who saw me told me to drive off but I left a note & the lady who the car belongs to rang me and I've sent her a big bunch of flowers and a big cheque for the damage

gordyslovesheep Thu 28-Feb-13 20:09:17

I asked this pages back but it was ignored

how do you know the person wasn't collecting/dropping off kids??'

people get all uppity with out knowing the facts - and seriously - if you can't park in a normal space and get a child out of the car stay at home !

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 20:11:18

Ps I've name changed - but I'm still ameybee - the firestarter of this lovely thread grin!

Fillyjonk75 Thu 28-Feb-13 20:11:38

I've not used them at all with DD1 if she is with me on her own, since she turned 5, TomArcher.

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 20:12:28

Gordy - lets face it the majority of people this thread is referring to will not be picking up kids.

Sausage, our Sainsburys has the upper limit as 12 yrs displayed on the signs. Which is great, as DS is only 10. Haven't had call to point to the sign with a Fuck You expression yet, but should I need to go when it's busy I have 2 years in which to do so.

crashdoll Thu 28-Feb-13 20:15:34

I wonder how many parents would use the P&C places if they were all placed at the other end of the carpark.

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 20:16:01

And someone asked a while back about buses - when I use them I am considerate and put baby bee in carrier and DD walks so I don't take up a space for a wheelchair user! I hate using them because I once got on & driver drove off so quickly DD fell over before we had sat down (I was also 38 weeks preg & nearly fell myself) and also because DD asks me very loud questions like 'why does that man smell' and 'why is that lady so fat?' Erm... Lets look out the window darling!! grin

akaemmafrost Thu 28-Feb-13 20:17:06

I use them with my 10 year old ds. I am sure I am judged. However he has autism and hypermobility and while he looks fine it can be a struggle to get him into places without issues. I've applied for a blue badge but out local council in its wisdom only give them to people on high rate mobility DLA, which kind of leaves a lot of people falling through the net. Anyhoo judge away I will continue to park in them because we need to.

Technically speaking in Tesco you're supposed to have one of their P&C club badges in your window, though I don't think it's ever been enforced!

I broke down once in a Tesco P&C space (yes, I did have DD with me) and RAC took ages to get to me. Oh, the filthy looks I got for that...

BeerTricksPotter - I think that walking across a car park on a proper, protected walkway, is going to be safer for everyone. And if you do have a child who runs off, it gives you a bit more time to catch them.

nenevomito Thu 28-Feb-13 20:20:11

I always use the P&C places. There's nothing that says the kids HAVE to be in the car with you.

I'm a parent. I have childs. And frankly when I'm off to ASDA to buy apple vodka to drink to get over the time I spend with said childs, I need to be parked near to the store.

gordyslovesheep Thu 28-Feb-13 20:20:14

erm 'lest face it' how do you know hmm

I also had a shiny sports car when DD1 was born and I used to take her into the gym in her car seat ...so that may explain the cars with no seats in

People are ridiculously precious about car spaces - it's crazy

Fillyjonk75 Thu 28-Feb-13 20:22:23

I actually don't even look for the p&c spaces in a recently redone Sainsbury's car park near us, as it is well designed and nearly all the regular spaces are safe & accessible. Some car parks are an accident waiting to happen though.

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 20:23:19

I'm not being precious about it - I'm just saying that I think its inconsiderate to use them if you don't need to! For everyone who has a genuine reason to need to use it - there will also be some lazy arse who's just inconsiderate!

BlackMaryJanes Thu 28-Feb-13 20:25:12

At my local Asda they issue fines to people mis-using the spots.

(Sorry if anyone has already mentioned this).

crashdoll Thu 28-Feb-13 20:26:15

It's not legally enforceable.

TomArchersSausage Thu 28-Feb-13 20:29:40

So there's there's potential for further arguments regarding ages and who has the greater need. Oh dear..

I haven't used them for ages. Dc are 14 and 11, but they have always looked much older because they're tall, so I bet someone somewhere was tutting when I was still using them.

I'm just glad all the stress of parking and shopping with babies and small children is over for me. But I think getting into arguments in carparks is probably a bad idea esp if you have children with you.

BlackMaryJanes Thu 28-Feb-13 20:29:45

crashdoll Hmmm so why have the policy?

FrankWippery Thu 28-Feb-13 20:30:55

Apple vodka you say Babyheave? Clarssy stuff wink

nenevomito Thu 28-Feb-13 20:31:01

crashdoll is right - they have it as some people pay up, but the only people who can legally enforce parking fines are the local authority.

BimbaBirba Thu 28-Feb-13 20:31:33

I think they're P&C are a marketing ploy and are not a necessity at all. Having said that, if they exist they shouldn't be abused.
The other day this young and seemingly fit couple in a tiny Citroen C1 parked in the last p&c moments before me. I then seriously struggled to open the door and chipped the door edge slightly to get DS out of a normal space which was ridiculously narrow. So YANBU. I was annoyed too.

crashdoll Thu 28-Feb-13 20:33:42

I'm afraid I can't answer that.

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 20:34:02

You are probably right Tom - there are some dodgy people about these days and its not worth risking with the kids... I still think its reasonable to be pissed off about it... But maybe in my head next time like usual!

To all the people saying 'it doesn't say its specifically for parent and child' are you not reading the sign??? I'm sure you'd be pretty pissed off if you had an allocated parking space for your flat/house and someone kept parking in it & said 'well it says no 22 but it doesn't say not no 28'!!

I'm getting delirious now - hurry up and get it to 1000 posts so the lashing stops grin.

EeyoresGloomyPlace Thu 28-Feb-13 20:35:14

Oh FGS of course it is inconsiderate of people to park in a P&C space if they have no need of one. It is selfish and lazy and makes it that bit harder for people who do qualify for one. And that could be a parent with children or someone with a disability.

No the world will not end if they are full/did not exist, but the point is they are provided to make life easier for some people, and if they are full of people taking the piss it's just a bit of a pain in the arse.

And I imagine for most parents its not the distance from the shop that matters it's the fact that you can open the doors wide enough to get baby seats and toddlers in and out safely and easily.

The level of defensiveness threads like this spark is ridiculous. OP knows it's not a life changing, apocalyptic problem but she is entitled to be a bit peeved.

OP YANBU

<breath> wink

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 20:42:51

Arguing in supermarket car parks is a bit common <sniffs>

BimbaBirba Thu 28-Feb-13 20:45:10

What Eeyores said

I deliberately didn't choose a 3-door model for my new car because of the difficulty of opening it in car parks.

My consideration condemned me to the Mum Model rather than the nippy little number I had my eye on.

So please, don't talk to me of sacrifices for the Greater Good sad

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen Thu 28-Feb-13 20:53:53

gimmeanaxe once during an apocalyptic thunderstorm my bus driver detoured all the way to my actual street, so that my sleeping baby would dissolve slightly less as I legged it home. smile

perceptionreality Thu 28-Feb-13 20:57:19

I think parent and child spaces should be banned, personally.

They give parents a ridiculous sense of entitlement. I have seen people complain about disabled people using them on facebook which is quite unbelievable.

You do not need extra space if you have young children - it's just silly to suggest you do. And I say that as a mum of 3.

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 20:58:52

If they were banned, we wouldn't have this thread every other week though.

perceptionreality Thu 28-Feb-13 20:59:49

Exactly - which has to be a good thing!

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 21:04:58

True grin

Perceptionreality - no, we do need P&C spaces, but they make life a bit easier for parents - why is that a bad thing?

perceptionreality Thu 28-Feb-13 21:16:28

It's a bad thing because parents start to feel that they cannot cope without them and that they are entitled to be angry with a disabled person who needs to use one.

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 21:18:06

Perception - no one on this thread said they would be mad with a disabled person needing to use them at all!

perceptionreality Thu 28-Feb-13 21:20:49

No, but as I said - I have seen people say it on FB. They cause people to confuse a marketing ploy with something they actually have to have.

I can manage in normal sized parking spaces and so did our parents.

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 21:25:26

I think this thread is going round in circles sad just because people managed without them back in the day doesn't mean they should be abused now, there's lots of things like that!

FFS if you have to get a maxi cosi or similar car seat out or body slam an 11 month old into his iron maiden car seat, the extra width is really helpful. Some normal spaces are ok, others re not. I will end up knocking the car next to me with my car door.

This was particularly true post c section, when I would lift ds out in car seat straight on to trolley, it was useful to have trolley right next to me so my insides didn't fall out.

'Didn't have them in my day' , no? But then car seats/buckles etc were less complicated in the olden days days gone by too.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROXIMITY TO THE STORE!!!!

OP YANBU if its no big deal then the annoying fuckers who use them could just park elsewhere. I can park elsewhere & do, but it is annoying.

usualsuspect Thu 28-Feb-13 21:37:16

So park right at the back of the car park then, loads of space there.

Babybeesmama Thu 28-Feb-13 21:39:52

Not always usual and you can guarantee someone always parks next to you too close! And that's not the point anyway!

My mum managed without a microwave, or a steam steriliser for bottles for dsis and me - does that make it a bad thing that these are now available to make people's lives a bit easier? She and dad managed not to kill us, despite not even having seat belts, let alone car seats - so should everyone manage the same way?

Parenthood, especially the early years, can be a hard slog - why get all hot under the collar because something is making it a bit easier?

Ad I don't think you can use the existence of idiots, on FB anywhere else, as a reason to deny ordinary parents a bit of help.

Actually that would be possible at tesco & i often did, but our sainsbury is in a retail park & there are literally no quiet areas where you could guarantee space around you. Same at Lidl, tiny car park, 80-90% full all the time.

What's with the need to self flagellate on here?

idiot55 Thu 28-Feb-13 21:42:55

its to do with safety.

nothing less.

Sirzy Thu 28-Feb-13 21:44:19

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROXIMITY TO THE STORE!!!!

It seems to for some people who are unable to control their child in a car park and therefore need to be able to park at the door.

Ok, for many/most it isn't. I hadn't ever considered this tbh.

Sirzy, you don't have to have no control over your child for something unexpected to happen, and for you to lose your grip on your child's hand.

andubelievedthat Thu 28-Feb-13 21:50:16

park accross 2 bays at right angles ,my fella always does that (no kids) so no one will scratch his vehicle paintwork , he is a nob thou ,he always parks furtherst away from store entrance where there is loads of space anyhow,also ,his beloved vehicle is so old no one parks near it anyhow ,he simply does not "get it"

But where does it stop? The Safety aspect?

If a supermarket sets up a giant inflatable walkway with cottonwool buffers and an airstream to waft Parents With Children down and straight into the store then soon everyone will want one. And expect one. And start threads on MN if they see an adult without a child being wafted along in one.

NayFindus Thu 28-Feb-13 21:57:12

It's sod all to do with control, there will always be some idiot reversing without looking. Put them at the back of the car park, yes, and put a walkway next to it. And you need space to get young children out the car.

WhoWhatWhereWhen Thu 28-Feb-13 21:58:41

When I get paid my benefits and go shopping I always park in the P&C spaces, my kids may be 8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15 & 17 years old but I can't get the Transit Mini bus in the other spaces.

Plus, when I'm spending MY hard earned money in a shop I'll park where I like, do you know how heavy two 20kg bags of goat feed weigh? probably about 6stone which is very heavy.

MagzFarqharson Thu 28-Feb-13 22:00:07

I always INSIST on parking in a p&c space when I go shopping with DD.

She's 23 smile

nellyjelly Thu 28-Feb-13 22:12:00

Splitting my sides.................

RattyRoland Thu 28-Feb-13 22:19:21

Usually I walk to the supermarket,but on the rare occasions I've been to a big Tesco, usually on holiday, I love the P&C spaces. Makes the shopping experience much nicer, as do the trolleys with child seat in them.

GirlOutNumbered Thu 28-Feb-13 22:30:46

I parked in a normal space the other day and when I got back to the car I couldn't get the passenger door open wide enough to fit carseat back in!

I asked a kind gent if he would hold carseat and baby while I reversed out..... He looked a bit worried like I might abandon ds with him! 'twas a pain in the ass and if I had seen a childless person in a p and c space, I may have said something....

funchum8am Thu 28-Feb-13 22:33:33

Yanbu, some people on this thread need to take a serious look at themselves

fairylightsinthesnow Thu 28-Feb-13 22:37:17

obviously have not read all 14 pages so apologies as I am sure it has all been said by now but OP, I am with you on this. Yes, I CAN cope in a normal space and I COULD walk from the other side of the car park and no these are not a right but the people who are using them with no kids in tow are simply being inconsiderate, selfish gits. I am always surprised there is not more consensus about this on here. Something is provided to help a group of people, make their lives a little easier in a small way. It is misused by others, most of whom (and I know, as I have had more than a few conversations with them) have no valid reason other than sheer bloody minded selfishness. That quality, in any other context on here is roundly condemned, so why not on this issue?

perceptionreality Thu 28-Feb-13 22:43:44

Yes, they are misused by others. But p&t spaces are a luxury, not a god given right. I think they encourage people to think they can't cope without them which is ridiculous.

I don't think anyone is saying they are a god given right, or that they can't cope without them, perceptionreality - just that they make life a bit easier, which isn't a terrible thing, and that it is churlish for people to use them when they don't need them.

perceptionreality Thu 28-Feb-13 22:55:26

Yes, they make life a bit easier. I myself have used them. But if I can't get one, I don't care. And I certainly wouldn't start a fight with someone in a car park over one. It's not worth it.

Hoofhearted69 Thu 28-Feb-13 23:09:49

(Blatantly thieving popcorn from Tiredmumno1) I've brought along some pimms in tins, anyone fancy a slurp? Have some straws too..?

gordyslovesheep Thu 28-Feb-13 23:16:56

This was particularly true post c section, when I would lift ds out in car seat straight on to trolley, it was useful to have trolley right next to me so my insides didn't fall out

you probably shouldn't have been driving if it was that bad hmm

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 28-Feb-13 23:39:43

Yanbu. But probably not for the reason you think.

I have a large parking area outside my house,I own this area it is mine. I have a space I like to park in I have a little sign by it that says please don't park in this area. My brother also likes to park in that space.

I cannot enforce anything should he do so but I can drive over his car in the monster truck.

I cannot actually force people to stay the fuck out of my parking space but does that mean its ur of me to expect them to?

Of course its not because its my space its on land owned by me . If a land owner provides a space for a particular group of people its not unreaonable to expect visitors to that land to park where the owner wants them to.

erowid Fri 01-Mar-13 02:35:17

This reminds me of particular feisty afternoon in tecos car park. I was driving in with my friend who was 8 and a half months pregnant at the time (no kids with us) I spotted 1 P&C parking space left available and parked up (its closer to the store and easier for pregnant friend) Car drove passed me after I parked and the woman driving looked kinda peeved but parked next to us in an ordinary parking bay less than 4ft away.

We all get out of the cars, she gets out with her 6ish year old (who is clearly capable of walking an extra 4 feet) and she obviously noticed that we had no children with us. She then shouted at us "You're not suppose to use those spaces until you actually have a child you know!" shock

I tried to reason with her by explaining my friend was pregnant and would appreciate the shorter walk to the store in her condition but no, she wasn't having any of it. Apparently she was more entitled because they were "A parent and a child" where as we had no child. hmm

Parking makes people crazy. confused

OutsideOverThere Fri 01-Mar-13 06:16:46

Erowid I understand where you're coming from but I do think she had a point.

Could your friend not have managed an extra 4ft? I mean fair enough there is little doubt that a 6yo doesn't need a pushchair/car seat so in terms of that they didn't really need the space either.

Speaking as someone who had a horrendous pregnancy recently with inordinate problems with SPD, etc I found it very very tough to walk any distance - and still I didn't use the P&T spaces when my children were at school. I did when the 5yo was with me.

Shops need to be clearer about who can use them - I think technically toddlers, babies are fine but anything above about 4 is pushing it a bit.

OutsideOverThere Fri 01-Mar-13 06:25:46

FILLYJONK!!! You're back!!! <big kiss> grin

erowid Fri 01-Mar-13 06:50:31

Outside Could your friend not have managed an extra 4ft?

Probably yes, but manoeuvring in and out of the car with big bump would have been a bit difficult without the extra space to open the door fully.

I think her reaction threw me actually and a bit of common courtesy wouldn't have gone amiss in that situation.

whiteflame Fri 01-Mar-13 06:59:23

Well she was more entitled erowid. She had a child with her, you did not. Just because you decided you needed it more, but the fact is, they are for parents and their children.

It's not about the distance surely, but the extra space.

toffeelolly Fri 01-Mar-13 07:02:22

I have even seen tesco staff park in p&b bay's. But what i found worst of all was when i was pregant going to hospital app a midwife had her car parked in p&b bay. So people really do not care were they park so got me thinking why should iwink

whiteflame Fri 01-Mar-13 07:02:54

Sorry pressed post too soon.

How can you bring up common courtesy? Someone with a 6 year old would appreciate being able to use the extra space - specifically intended for them - too. So it was you who should have used common courtesy.

Sirzy Fri 01-Mar-13 07:09:50

White flame that shows what someone said earlier that these spaces do seem to lead to a certain sense of entitlement and that common sense disappears.

Can you seriously not see why a heavily pregnant woman would need the extra space?

erowid Fri 01-Mar-13 07:10:23

It's not about the distance surely, but the extra space.

Which it was hmm

A mother and a 6 year old with no car seats/buggies/bags not really needing much space to get out of a car compared to a heavily pregnant lady who would need the space.

whiteflame Fri 01-Mar-13 07:14:43

Sirzy, can you not see that a parent and child space is for parents and children (or disabled people if these spaces are taken).

It's really that simple.

Sirzy Fri 01-Mar-13 07:17:44

I can see that for some people they need the extra space without having a child. It is very selfish to not accept that.

No whiteflame it's not that simple. You'd think it would be, but it's never that simple on here. God forbid that parents should have any help or use anything to make their lives a wee bit easier. Professionally missing to sodding point is rife on threads like this.

(Had enough of the demands for self flagellation, not my thing.)

butterflyroom Fri 01-Mar-13 07:19:50

FGS - People who are saying they don't care- why post then??? I can see the benefits of these spaces for people with young children and babies as there is far more room around the car to get children and car seats that clip on to pushchairs/ trolleys in the car without it being tight. They are a useful bonus and I can see why the OP became annoyed with some lazy arse. YANBU.

whiteflame Fri 01-Mar-13 07:20:29

It is very selfish to use spaces designated for people with a particular need.

Sirzy Fri 01-Mar-13 07:22:45

So babies do only parents deserve things which make life a wee bit easier? What about the pregnant woman mentioned earlier do people really think life shouldn't be made easier for them?

Or the person who is temporarily disabled so doesn't have a blue badge but struggles to get out - should life not be made easier for them?

I fail to see how a parent with a 6 year old possibly needed that space more.

EeyoresGloomyPlace Fri 01-Mar-13 07:30:01

Sirzy, if you read people's comments above you'd have seen no one was debating the use of the spaces by people in actual need, it's the use by people who are just lazy and selfish that is irritating.

There are always loads more disabled spaces than p&c anyway so I would hope those requiring a space would use their allocated space first and the p&c second.

Isn't much of this just common courtesy, or lack of in the case of the woman OP encountered?

Sirzy Fri 01-Mar-13 07:32:52

I assume you haven't read any of whiteflames posts then Eeyores? She seems to think that a parents with a 6 year old has a greater need than a heavily pregnant woman.

Not everyone who needs extra space is registered disabled.

You don't know why the woman the OP encountered had decided to park there. She could have been selfish, she could have had a reason. The OP was still out of order to challenge her.

RubixCube Fri 01-Mar-13 07:33:04

Yabu my dp uses them if there no disabled bays left

But the point is, no one can possibly know what need someone has.

If there's only 1 space, who should get it? The person with a 6 year old who might have other reasons to need it, or the mother with a 2 year old?

Who decides who needs it more?

It's a parking space. You don't know why people are parking there. So park if there is a space, if not park somewhere else.
But becoming judge and jury on who is more deserving is madness.

Sirzy Fri 01-Mar-13 07:37:15

exactly Tantrums.

threebats Fri 01-Mar-13 07:44:34

God, this reminded me of an incident about 3/4 years ago. I was loading my shopping into my boot, in a regular parking space across the way from the P&C spaces. There was a woman next to me doing the same. I had reversed into my space, she had driven into hers so we were top to tail then. When she was done loading her shopping, she took her trolley and tried to get between her car and mine, to leave it on the path. When she couldn't fit through, she took my wing mirror and tried to push it into the car.... I went, 'Oi!' Like that and she turned around and absolutely growled at me, 'I could not get a space in the parent and child space. I have a baby in the car! ' I mean, she shouted/growled it at me.
I told her that the baby would be quite safe in the car while she walked, oh 10 more steps in the other direction to get to the path. And she declared me a stupid, childless idiot.... So I informed, actually I had three children and not one of them had incited me into an act of stupidity in a car park.... Get off my fecking car woman....
Honestly, this happened. The baby was asleep in its seat in the back of the car? Not screaming or howling or looking for its mum... Bloody entitled parking and idiots like this have driven me mad ever since.

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 07:55:41

It's like it's cool to say YABU for being annoyed that some fuckwit has parked in a P and C without kids on MN. I don't get it.

Those spaces are for parents with young children. Yes it's not the end of the world if a parent has to struggle getting her baby in a car seat, plus toddler, plus bags of shopping in the car but just having a bit of space makes their life a bit easier.

If you don't have young children and use that space you are being an inconsiderate and selfish bugger.

toddlerama Fri 01-Mar-13 08:26:18

They just need to make all the spaces wider. The selfish will always be among us and they will always want the space they deem the best. The problem is you can't get a baby seat out of the car without opening the door fully, and lots of supermarkets only offer toddler seats in trolleys so you need the car seat for the baby to sit in! So when someone selfish decides to park there because they can or because its not a legal right, you end up circling the car park despite there being other spaces because there's no point parking if you can't get out.

Parents who use them when the kids are waiting in the car are the worst. Come on, you know what it's like to get a car seat out with two other toddlers trying to force their way past you. Don't be a dick. hmm

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 08:30:42

' don't be a dick ' exactly.

fairylightsinthesnow Fri 01-Mar-13 08:30:58

No, you can't always KNOW there is an issue but its a fair bet if, when challenged, the people get REALLY arsey and defensive like the bloke who swore and called me a bitch the other week, that they don't have a reason such as temporary mobility issues say. This chap was loading up his very flash jag with shopping and had fairly obviously parked there so his car wouldn't get damaged. I asked very politely if he knew they were P&C and his exact words were: Yeah so? Fuck off you bitch and mind your own business! Lovely.

Imaginethat Fri 01-Mar-13 08:33:06

Seriously though, about two thirds of shoppers have children with them and only about one zillionth of the car parks are P&C. So who is the most entitled? Maybe just park where you can and save your energy for real problems.

valiumredhead Fri 01-Mar-13 08:40:20

This is such a funny thread grin

I wonder how many parents would use the P&C places if they were all placed at the other end of the carpark

That ^

debbie1412 Fri 01-Mar-13 08:42:44

Yanbu it drives me mad ! I never get a pc space and and struggle to get the car seat out if their is a car parked nxt to us. I'm also not bothered about walking distance it's the width of the parking bays I need. I also hate people who park in them with children above the age of 5.
Totally agree with you x

valiumredhead Fri 01-Mar-13 08:45:18

When ds was small there weren't P and C spaces - no one struggled, they just parked and got out of their cars, sometimes it was a bit of a tight squeeze but no one got angry, no one complained or fumed. What's changed?

Sirzy Fri 01-Mar-13 08:48:53

Parents have come to expect them and therefore now rely on them.

Nobody who NEEDS these spaces has yet managed to tell me how they cope in normal car parks which don't have P and C spaces though.

landofsoapandglory Fri 01-Mar-13 09:01:51

I can not believe the amount of people who get their knickers in a twist over a parking space! The only people who should have a designated space is the disabled, the rest of you should park where ever!

All this bollocks of 'I can't get little Johnnie's seat out!' What do you do if you go to a hospital, or a council car park in town because they don't have them? You just have to suck it up and get on with it!

When I had DS1 P&T spaces were sort of just coming in, but we coped if we couldn't get one, even when I was on crutches and 8months pregnant with DS2 we could manage! When my DSis has DN, we'd go out in my 3 door car, with DN in her seat in the front, my mother, nan and sister in the back and me driving and we'd all manage to get out of the car without the need of a P&T space!

Theas18 Fri 01-Mar-13 09:08:51

Mums net has given me a parking complex!

Parked in P+C child in lidl because all the disabled spaces were taken (BOTH mum and dad have blue badges FFS!) they DO need both space to open the doors wide and the shortest run to the shop possible as they totter along ( or in dads case try to fall).

I was twinging with guilt all the time I was shopping thinking there will be a thread about me I know it!

See, this is the thing. No one needs these spaces.

It's a bonus if one is available. And of course we would all rather our lives were easier. That's why they have a few of these spaces.

But realistically, it's not necessary. So if one is available, that's good. You get on with your shopping and its made it that bit easier.

But...it's the..I don't know what to call it. The absolute insistence that these spaces need to be available because people cannot get out of cars or stop their DCs running off. Because it isn't true.

You can do it. Maybe it's a minutes more effort but you can do it.
Because we did it when there were no P&C parking, you do it when places don't offer P&C parking.

The spaces aren't legally enforceable AFAIK and I imagine its because they aren't necessary. They are just there, to help and if its available, park in it.

I guess people have many reasons for parking there with no DCs and yes, laziness is probably one of them. And, yes it would be nicer if they didnt.
But it would also be nicer if I could park outside my house every day. But I can't. Because its not my space. And even though it would be easier for me, I can't question people about parking there, and thinking I was more entitled to the space because it makes my life easier.

WestieMamma Fri 01-Mar-13 09:24:27

Sirzy, can you not see that a parent and child space is for parents and children (or disabled people if these spaces are taken).

I frequently use them even when the disabled spaces are free for 2 reasons. Firstly there is an increasingly common practise of putting them closer than the disabled spaces (Tesco, I'm looking at you hmm). Secondly, I will park in the space available which is best suited to my needs and sometimes that means a p&c space over a disabled space.

I've also been shouted out for using them many times because as someone up thread said, they breed a sense of entitlement. You'd be amazed at how many people put their convenience above my need.

I'm confused.

People saying they can't get carseats inand out. Do you not just park ever so slightly nearer to the left side white line of a space and put the carseat on the right hand side of the car?

It's what I did, it was much easier.

Babybeesmama Fri 01-Mar-13 09:43:03

I think this thread has completly missed the point now!

I agree with eyeore that there are in most cases a lot more disabled spaces than p&c spaces (there are 3 where I was), if I was disabled and couldn't find a space yes I think its totally reasonable to park in a p&c space but if it happened frequently I would speak to the store about providing more disabled parking.

I didn't 'fight' with this woman, I merely asked her if she realised. Wouldn't normally bother but was pissed off and tired!

I've decided that the majority of people on this thread think I am not being unreasonable! And those who don't agree are going off on a totally different tangent!

Over and out!

Babybeesmama Fri 01-Mar-13 09:43:59

Amazing - what if you have 2 kids? And no one said they couldn't actually get them out in a normal space - just that its more difficult!

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 01-Mar-13 09:50:02

It makes me wonder how all these people who can't control or hang on to their child (thus absolutely needing a parent and child parking space), manage when they park in other places such as council carparks. Or perhaps they don't go anywhere else other than the supermarket for this reason. It must be very difficult. Poor dears.

I do have two kids.

FrankWippery Fri 01-Mar-13 10:01:40

grin ABF

Maryz Fri 01-Mar-13 10:01:48

Has anyone mentioned soluble babies yet?

I need that one to fill my bingo card.

Maryz Fri 01-Mar-13 10:03:21

I had three children under four by the way, the oldest of whom was a bolter. And I managed.

I was obviously a supermum.

And in those days they didn't have double trolleys, or trolleys suitable for babies either.

But then again, I used to give them grapes shock and bread rolls [horror] while walking around the supermarket <stirs>

FrankWippery Fri 01-Mar-13 10:03:26

Well I did have 4 children, but three dissolved. There's your house Maryz.

threebats Fri 01-Mar-13 10:05:22

Ahhhh, long gone are the days where I used to schlep on a bus with two toddlers and a baby in a pram, get off the bus, go to the store, get the food, bag it up, schlep back to the bus with it all plus kids. Smile thanks at a stranger who helped me on with it all - no bus ramps in those days! Then walk home with all of them and the food from the bus stop.....
People are so spoiled today - me included I have to say, I now own a car!! But honestly, this thread? Get a grip guys, come on. Walking with a baby from the far end of a car park, be it rain or shine, is not going to kill either you or the baby.

Maryz Fri 01-Mar-13 10:09:34

Ah, those were the days.

And my children were barefoot and in rags too wink.

Maryz Fri 01-Mar-13 10:10:02

Thanks Frank, I'm happy now, I can hide the thread grin

No dissolving babies MaryZ

Because they cannot get out of the car

Clearly car seats, and babies have doubled in size and car park spaces have been cut in half since dd and DS were little?

TandB Fri 01-Mar-13 10:12:51

It would be nice if you could find a wide space when you want one - it certainly makes things easier to be able to open the door fully - but I do find it odd that there is so much insistence that people can't manage, or find it spectacularly difficult, without one.

Most places I go have no P&C spaces. I have 2 children. I can only remember two occasions in three and a half years when I couldn't get the kids in the car. One was in a shopping centre with notoriously tiny parking spaces - I came back to my tiny car and found 2 4x4s parked tight against both sides because they'd helpfully left themselves masses of room on the other side to get their children out. I found someone to hold DS1, climbed in the boot and back it out.

The other time was at a soft play with a tiny car park when someone had squeezed into something that wasn't really a space and I couldn't get DS1 or my pregnant stomach through the door and had to get her to come and move her car.

So that's three and a half years and only 2 tricky parking/children situations.

Yes, I can see why you might want to have the extra spaces, but I'm surprised you would get so het up about it as to actually challenge someone about it.

olgaga Fri 01-Mar-13 10:21:16

Thankfully I no longer have this problem but when I did we could never find a P&C space anyway, and I do remember how irritating it used to be.

Around here there are loads of huge 4x4s, MPVs etc. They tend not to bother with the P&C spaces. They just park slap bang in the middle of two spaces.

Why not?

I might add, some people do this simply because they have a posh car they don't want bumped and scratched.

Of course you might end up being challenged yourself - but you can then have the satisfaction of giving a lecture about how it wouldn't be necessary if people weren't so inconsiderate as to park in the P&C spaces when they have no children...grin

LadyPessaryPam Fri 01-Mar-13 10:21:30

AmazingBouncingFerret People saying they can't get carseats inand out. Do you not just park ever so slightly nearer to the left side white line of a space and put the carseat on the right hand side of the car?

Assuming just the 1 car seat there Ferret. Some people have twins or triplets or closely spaced children.

I don't know why it is entitled to want to use the P&C spaces when you qualify and would find it helpful? Some kind of weird machismo going on on MN today.

TheChaoGoesMu Fri 01-Mar-13 10:29:38

Some people have twins or triplets or closely spaced children.

You take one out, lean over, and then get the other out. Not ideal but very doable. What does family with twins or triplets do if they are in a different carpark, or the child and parent spaces are taken up with genuine users? Do they turn round and go home confused

toffeelolly Fri 01-Mar-13 10:38:22

Why can they just do away with p&b bay's then there would be no fightingwink

There is nothing wrong with wanting to use the P&C spaces but to go all arsey and claim you cannot possibly use a regular parking space because you have, shock horror children is a slightly enormous overreaction.

And more than one removable carseat is easy done. Lean over. Any mobile children can easily climb out themselves.

Landofsoapandglory - I have a microwave, a food processor, and a handheld mixer that make my life a bit easier when I am cooking. I could manage without them, but I see nothing wrong in using something that has been provided for me and makes my life a bit easier.

As someone else has said, if all parking spaces were wider, everyone's life would be a bit easier. But as they aren't, and as many parents of small children do find that P&C spaces make life a bit easier, is it wrong to think that people who don't have small children should stay out of those spaces? Or to think that objecting to a small thing that makes some people's lives a bit easier, is pretty mean and churlish?

When my children were small, the spaces were Parent and Child spaces, so when the boys were older, I could, technically, have carried on using them (or, as another poster has suggested, I could have used them when out with my mum), but I didn't, because I figured other people needed them more. That's what this is about - having a bit of thought for other people - which is a good thing, I think.

Erowid - in your specific circumstance, there was a very easy solution that didn't involve you using a P&C space without a child actually in the car. You could have dropped your friend as close as possible to the store entrance, then gone and parked the car. When you'd finished shopping, you nip to the car and come back and pick her up somewhere convenient, so she doesn't have to walk too far. Problem solved.

BlueberryHill Fri 01-Mar-13 11:30:21

Some people have twins or triplets or closely spaced children.

You take one out, lean over, and then get the other out. Not ideal but very doable. What does family with twins or triplets do if they are in a different carpark, or the child and parent spaces are taken up with genuine users? Do they turn round and go home

I've got 2 yo twins and a 6 yo. When they were little and couldn't walk I needed to put them in a double seater trolley direct from the car, these were always kept at the front of the store. The P&Cs were half way to the store, so I would park there, leave the kids in the car and sprint to the store, get trolley and sprint back. I didn't like leaving them in the car on their own so I didn't like parking at the back of the car park in the quiet bit as it was further. If they kept the double trolleys there, fine but they didn't. So, yes I was annoyed when people in plasterer's vans, middle aged couples who then walked into town parked there. I have no problems with disabled people or elderly people who looked like a shorter walk would help parking there.

I wouldn't like to be leaning over in my car when the kids were small to put them in as I've knackered back loads of times twisting and carrying the twins, there has been extra stress put on my back as a result and I'm not risking it again.

Now they are older, I can park at the back, still prefer the P&C spaces though. I put reins on them to get them to the shop but I need to be able to open the doors wide enough to get them in, I can't do it in 4 inches of space. I hold one twin on the rein, open door wide, gather other twin under the arms and swing them into the car. Its a high car so they cannot climb in yet.

So in summary, I can get out and about but it is a lot easier if I can use a P&C space, why cannot someone able bodied walk a little further to provide a curtesy to someone else. If I'm on my own or with DS1, we park in a normal space and walk.

valiumredhead Fri 01-Mar-13 11:43:26

I parked in a P and C bay the other day as the disabled ones were full, I was willing someone to challenge me wink

valium grin

I used to use them when I used to take my Grandma to Morrisons, she needed the space to get onto her deathtrap mobility scooter. I'd have loved it if someone said anything!

valiumredhead Fri 01-Mar-13 11:50:18

No one has ever challenged me, I'd like to see them try grin

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 12:01:57

I was up at the supermarket with my elderly mother last weekend. We drove all around the car park and it was full. Then a p&c space near the door became empty. Yes, we parked in it. Were we supposed to go back home without our shopping in case a mum with a child arrived 5 minutes later?

TBH I have heard of some total rubbish about P&T spaces. That people recovering from operations or very elderly people have no right to use them just because they're near to the door. They can go and shop online if they don't want to walk across the car park etc. Some parents are very self entitled, they really are.

perceptionreality Fri 01-Mar-13 12:07:56

'I can not believe the amount of people who get their knickers in a twist over a parking space! The only people who should have a designated space is the disabled, the rest of you should park where ever!'

I couldn't agree more.

That is rubbish, atthewelles. But I don't think the entitled-ness is confined to parents, to be fair. I think that entitled people are going to be entitled parents, and, on the flip side, decent people don't lose all grip of themselves when they become parents.

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 12:14:01

Let's be honest here. The supermarket don't give a flying fig about being 'nice' to parents or 'making life easier' for them. They know that young families spend a lot more money in the supermarket than, for instance, an elderly person living alone. So a healthy young mother in her 30s can have a space by the door before she loads up her trolley with disposable nappies, and enough food to feed a family of 5 for a week, and bumper bags of crisps,etc etc while elderly Mrs Jones can just shuffle across the car park with her mingy half a sliced pan and packet of hobnobs.
Likewise, if you're single and living alone, tough if you're recovering from surgery. You're only going to buy a packet of pasta and a tin of chickpeas so off to the back of the car park with you.
Bring back small family businesses who would have offered Mrs Jones a chair while she was waiting her turn, and insisted on having the surgery patient's shopping carried out to their car for them!

perceptionreality Fri 01-Mar-13 12:14:40

At our supermarket the other day, a car held up all the traffic trying to get into the car park because the person in it was waiting, yes waiting for a parent and child space to become available, even though there was no sign of anyone vacating one. About 20 people waited 10 minutes for this idiot to move before we could actually get into the car park.

Parent and child spaces encourage this kind of bonkers behaviour. So they should be scrapped.

I'm sorry, perceptionreality, but that seems a bit of a mean attitude. Yes, as someone else has said, they are a luxury, and yes, you can manage without them, though it may be more of a struggle - but honestly, people, why is it so wrong to give a group of people a small, fringe benefit that makes an aspect of their life a bit easier?

There are some very churlish attitudes on this thread.

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 12:19:00

Because by giving that group of people a small,fringe benefit you are often making life difficult for other people. Also, some parents no longer see it as a bit of a bonus and have started behaving as if it is a right, causing scenes such as the one described by perception.

Like I said, perceptionreality - entitled people are going to be entitled parents. I honestly believe that the person who did that was probably just as much of an arse before they had kids, and will carry on being a monumentally entitled arse after their kids have grown up and left home. It is not the P&C space that is responsible for that person being an arse - it is the fault of the entitled arse.

perceptionreality Fri 01-Mar-13 12:19:50

Because, SDT they encourage people to think they HAVE TO HAVE this space, otherwise the sky will fall, and to act like idiots when they don't actually need them.

The only people who really need parking concessions are disabled people.

I'm now firmly in the catagory of people who aren't entitled to use P&C spaces, atthewelles, and I don't think their existence is causing me problems or making my life difficult. And if they didn't exist, there would still only be a finite number of spaces near the store, so I don't think that life would miraculously become easier for us all.

But they still only behave badly because they are entitled arses, not because it is a P&C space, perceptionreality. If there were no P&C spaces, as you suggest, or if they were right at the back of the carpark, as others have suggested, you could still find an entitled arse waiting for a space near the store.

I will say it again - yes, I agree, only the disabled need parking concessions, and P&C spaces are a luxury - but they make an aspect of life a bit easier for parents, and wanting to take that away just seems mean to me.

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 12:24:18

Not you necessarily SDT. But elderly people, people recovering from surgery, people shopping at night time in the rain when all the spaces by the door are empty but designated P&T only, people trying to find a space in a packed car park on a saturday afternoon and not being able to park in a P&T space if it is the only one that becomes available but have to keep driving around and around.....

lambsie Fri 01-Mar-13 12:25:45

I struggle when parent and child spaces are not available. My 5 year old has autism, severe learning difficulties and physical difficulties. I still have to lift him in and out of the car, he uses a sn buggy, he has no understanding of safety and he lashes out when he is distressed. Having the extra space makes things much easier and less stressful. He can walk short distances so does not get hrm and so a blue badge. I avoid some carparks because I know it likely I won't get sufficient space next to the car.

Pendeen Fri 01-Mar-13 12:27:38

It's the people who park in the drop-off space immediately outside the shop who irritate me the most because taxis and cars stopping to drop someone off have to then stop in the road thus holding every one up.

Not so bad if it's a simple open door, leap out and drive off situation but when a diabled shopper has to struggle between the lazy swine's parked cars and then get aboard, the driver has then to load their shopping, stow the chair and so on when all that can be avoided by selfish creatures not parking there in the first place.

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 12:34:34

What seriously annoys me is when some parents start equating P&T spaces with disabled spaces. Disabled spaces are absolutely essential to disabled drivers and are far more important that P&T spaces. Most parents get this, but some parents really genuinely think they're on a par with each other. angry

perceptionreality Fri 01-Mar-13 12:49:23

lambsie - you can still get a blue badge even if your ds doesn't get higher rate mobility - it's just that HRM is an automatic passport to one.

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 12:59:04

The P and C spaces should be further away from the front of the store. Should just be disabled spaces there.

The lazy and selfish bastards would think twice about parking so far away from the door then.

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 13:09:04

Bit of a sweeping statement Everlong. Maybe a bit inconsiderate to park in a P&T space if you don't need one, but I wouldn't necessarily call people who do that lazy and selfish bastards.

I agree that entitled people will always be entitled people regardless whether they have small children or not.
But the entitledness seems to grow to epic proportions when they have children.

These are people who cannot see past what they want. People who have to haev a parking space at the expense of anyone else.
People who would not get off the bus or fold the pushchair for a wheelchair user.
People who would not put their 2 year old on their lap on a crowded bus so my mum on crutches could sit down. Even when I asked her she said no, her daughter might wriggle about and my mum should not be on the bus at all.

That is an appalling story, Tantrums - what a horrible woman!

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 13:18:57

She sounds absolutely vile (or incredibly thick).

Not sure if its been said but what if at the carpark all P andC spaces are all taken up by people with babies and small children, wouldn't you just have to park further away? Whether or not if you had a small baby or child confused

FrankWippery Fri 01-Mar-13 13:21:17

Sell the children I reckon, then we would have any problems. Up chimneys, down mines, pop them in hamster type wheels to solve energy shortages. Just think how much freer we'd all be.

That's it, I'm putting DD3 on eBay right now. I knew there was an answer.

QueenMaeve Fri 01-Mar-13 13:22:25

I purposely park in the whenever I can. Even when I don't have any dc with me. I get great pleasure winding people up. In all the years after having my 5dc I never yet lost the ability to walk further than the length of myself

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 13:24:09

I go to sainsburys most nights after picking ds from school. I see it all the time. Man sat in the car, wife going into the shop, no dc in back. That is lazy and selfish.

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 13:27:21

Yes, but not everyone who parks in them is lazy and selfish. It doesn't mean they'd park in a disabled space for instance.
And I do suspect that some people are just weary of the ever increasing brigade of precious self entitled parents who think the world revolves around them and just think 'sod it' when it comes to P&T spaces. Unfortunately the fair and non entitled parents suffer as a result.

FrankWippery - I am sorry to burst your bubble, but in all my years of trying, I have never managed to sell one of the dses. Not even when I offered a BOGOF! I blame the recession.

plusonemore Fri 01-Mar-13 13:30:12

It drives me mad angry

But what is worse is people parking there with children aged 13/14/15...they have been in the position of needing a safe place with extra room to get their kids out and MUST know they shouldn't be parking there any more

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 13:34:12

' precious and entitled parents '?
Look they have those spaces like it or not. They are for parents with young children. Personally I've never been arsed with them. If there was one free I would use it but I was happy to go further away from the store where it was less busy. But in my book if you are just taking that space without a baby in tow all because you think these parents are precious and entitled then you/ they need to get a grip.

FrankWippery Fri 01-Mar-13 13:35:09

SDTG you are clearly marketing them at a price that's too high. Have you tried throwing extras in like cute puppies and kittens? Every little helps and all that.

StarBuys!

Buy slightly cute, rather noisy 3 year old DD and get a whiny, daft Staffordshire bull terrier free!

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen Fri 01-Mar-13 13:51:05

It ALL boils down to the fact that some people are fucknuggets.

For example the last P&C space rant that occurred on my local community FB page was posted the very woman who I had witnessed only a week earlier park opposite the school' in front off a residents driveway whilst she was in her car starting the engine to pull out! She strolled over the road totally ignoring my the resident frantically beeping her horn.

Her response on return, i later found out was "I was only gone 5 minutes and not breaking any laws" shock

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 13:54:35

I didn't say they were right Everlong, I was just saying that the precious and self entitled behaviour of some parents can dilute people's good will.

Personally, I have no problem with extra wide spaces being provided for parents. It makes sense. I don't think they should be at the door though. Yes, it might be handy for parents, but its also handy for elderly people, people getting over surgery etc.

I also think if the car park is full and a P&T space is the only one that becomes available after driving around searching for a space (as happened to me last Sat) people should not have to turn the car around and go home rather than park in it.

They're a concession but parents don't trump everyone else.

DonderandBlitzen Fri 01-Mar-13 13:59:13

"I used to go up to offenders, smile disarmingly, and say: "You do know there's a man over there clamping people parking in P&C slots who don't have children?"

They used to move their cars pretty sharpish."

I like that! grin

BeCool Fri 01-Mar-13 14:01:54

All I need to see is the thread title and I started laughing!!!
I've clearly been here a long time!
stdavids

Olgathebrickshed Fri 01-Mar-13 14:02:02

Ooh, thanks, DonderadnBlitzen. grin

BeCool it's when you see the thread title and you start weeping that's when you know you've been here too long! grin

BeCool Fri 01-Mar-13 14:12:14

smile
I'm too positive by nature to weep, But I hear you ABF

DuPainDuVinDuFromage Fri 01-Mar-13 14:14:43

YANBU.

P&C spaces are for parents with children and nobody else is supposed to use them. I wouldn't dream of parking in a P&C space without dd, or if I didn't have kids, just as disabled spaces should be for only disabled people. Yes, if all the spaces are in use, parents are perfectly capable of parking in a normal space, but just because it is physically possible doesn't mean parents should never have the use of P&C spaces, while people without children use the spaces.

For all the people saying 'just park further away from the shop door where there is more space', why shouldn't the people who don't have children with them park further away instead?

We've got P&C spaces whether we like it or not, until some future government removes them; while they exist they should be used properly.

OP - I would definitely have said something to the woman. And if I had been her, and brazenly parked where I wasn't meant to, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have chickened out and made up some story about my kids being just round the corner! If you're going to break rules, at least do it with style! grin

Doubletroublemummy2 Fri 01-Mar-13 14:18:03

I am totally with you on this, but what irritates me more is the fact that the car park operator threatens to fine people using these with out children, upto £1000, but never do!

I usually glare and tut! wink

gordyslovesheep Fri 01-Mar-13 14:24:40

I usually glare and tut!

again really nice for people who park there to drop off or collect their kids

I laugh at people who give me evils and tut at me when I do this - they are very silly

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 14:28:57

Drop off or collect their kids? What do you mean?

perceptionreality Fri 01-Mar-13 14:29:39

Dupain - p&c spaces don't exist because of the government, they are generally put there by supermarkets for marketing purposes as someone said above - families with children are going to spend more money aren't they?

When do you ever see parent and child spaces in council pay and display car parks? I don't think I ever have, personally....

Sirzy Fri 01-Mar-13 14:29:51

The fines aren't legally enforceable anyway.

Doubletroublemummy2 Fri 01-Mar-13 14:31:13

i don't understand the comments about entitlement? how is the parent with the child "entitled" but the person who has no child and feels they can park where ever they like stuff anyone else, not?? as it were?? Surely the person with child is rightfully entitled to park in a space allocated for this use, anyone else parking there out of a sense of entitlement is therefore not,.. as it were

gordyslovesheep Fri 01-Mar-13 14:31:15

erm I mean drop off or collect my 3 children - which means I may drive into a space child free or return to one child free - but at some point I will be getting 3 kids in or out of a car ergo I am entitled to use a P+C space should one be free

<if none is free I do not glare, tut, sigh or question the level of disability or need of other people using them>

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 14:33:28

Oh. I just didn't understand why you'd be dropping kids off at the supermarket and then picking them up confused

Doubletroublemummy2 Fri 01-Mar-13 14:33:45

Perceptiom Worcester have a number of them. although thankfully they have recently redone some car parks making all the bays slightly wider thereby better for everyone

gordyslovesheep Fri 01-Mar-13 14:36:03

erm
A) because I may be meeting their father their or I may be meeting their grandmother as we meet half way between our homes sometimes when she has them (200 miles away)

b) because it's not just supermarkets that have them - our local town centre does

perceptionreality Fri 01-Mar-13 14:36:31

Doubletrouble - I don't think people are wrong or 'entitled' to use them, just that, generally I have observed that the existence of them encourages people to think that they have as much right to or need for the kind of parking concessions disabled people have, just because they happen to have children fgs!

In an ideal world they would be a useful thing. But it's not an ideal world and imo they encourage twattish behaviour from some people and fights in car parks over spaces. Therefore we would be better off without them.

gordyslovesheep Fri 01-Mar-13 14:36:46

there ffs

perceptionreality Fri 01-Mar-13 14:38:37

Do you know me then doubletrouble?! I can't think how else you would know which town I meant. (racks brain for possible mners I could know in RL)

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 14:38:51

LOL Gordy I had this image of you shoving your 4 and 5 year old out of the car to go and get something for dinner whilst you sat there being glared at grin

Doubletroublemummy2 Fri 01-Mar-13 14:39:39

Gordy after accidently tutting at a couple with a new born in the back blush (Luckily don't think they noticed me) i make very sure there is no doubt. It is usually they same repeat offender is home & garden maintenance truck! (although I don't think he pays much attention to me either[hmmm]

gordyslovesheep Fri 01-Mar-13 14:41:52

oh good lord how handy would that be grin but no - they would come back with £8 worth of Haribo and a pony magazine grin

DuPainDuVinDuFromage Fri 01-Mar-13 14:42:14

Perception - I hadn't realised that. Hmm...maybe in that case it really should be a free-for-all...but I think I'll keep glaring and tutting though grin

FrankWippery Fri 01-Mar-13 14:52:58

Everlong, that is the most brilliant idea. I shall do this from now on. DD3 can do the shop and I can sit and read the paper/MN/go for a coffee. Even more genius than mine. I salute you. grin

atthewelles Fri 01-Mar-13 14:57:13

I think DuPain's statement that 'we have P&C spaces until some government removes them sums up the mis-understanding that exists about these spaces and why some parents seem to believe that they're some kind of entitlement or human right.

That would be hilarious.

"Here DS and DD, this is the weekly shopping budget, knock yourself out."

They'd come back with a trolley full of magnums and a packet of chewing gum each...

FrankWippery Fri 01-Mar-13 15:29:49

Without wishing to drop a massive stealth boast in, DD3 wold pile up the trolley with mussels give the chance. And chocolate, so balanced out.

gordyslovesheep Fri 01-Mar-13 15:42:33

DD1 would go for Prawns <shudders> DD2 would buy peanuts and DD3 would buy anything with 'Peppa Pig' on it

EeyoresGloomyPlace Fri 01-Mar-13 15:58:40

Dd1 spent best part of a tenner on biscuits last weekend hmm

She was with DH though so blame to be shared equally, and I reckon she'd probably do a better job of the weekly shop than he would grin

I've just asked DS what he would buy if I gave him 20 quid and free choice of anything in ASDA.

Easter eggs and pringles. hmm

DD would buy watermelon (she doesn't like it) pineapple (she doesn't like it) and lots and lots of yoghurt.

FrankWippery Fri 01-Mar-13 16:23:16

As I thought, I've just asked the stinking urch for her list.

Mussels
Tomatoes
Mushrooms
Milk
Eggs
Milkshake
Steak
And, not surprisingly, chocolate and Fabs.

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 16:56:14

Ok ds (6) I reckon would bring out sugar puffs ( because I always say no ) popcorn, fizzy vimto, every type of chocolate and some of those shite comics with the plastic tat toy.

Be worth it though to sit in peace!

everlong Fri 01-Mar-13 16:57:20

Mussels shock
Sophisticated child grin

FrankWippery Fri 01-Mar-13 17:03:55

She's well sophis! TBF though, she was weaned in Spain and lived on clams and mussels. She refuses to accept they are called clams and insists they are almeja, which is slightly embarrassing and makes me feel like a pushy 'you will speak 4 languages' parent!

Shaky Fri 01-Mar-13 21:07:12

Ooh that would be a good thread, ask your child what they would spend £20 on if let loose in the supermarket grin

Notafoodbabyanymore Sat 02-Mar-13 01:22:38

This thread could be summed up in five words. Don't be a selfish arsehole. Those words apply to everyone.

On other matters, I just asked DD what she would buy at the supermarket if she had the choice. Her answer? "Chocolate and weetbix and sugar and a toy for you when you were a little girl" confused

Think she's imagining we've swapped places.

Emilythornesbff Sat 02-Mar-13 08:14:55

Drives me mad too. But i can't bear confrontation so i never say anything.
In a way i wish they were further from the store entrance as it's the extra space and the sort of protected walk way to the shop that really helps imho.

So what if they're not essential?
Why begrudge someone something that helps them out a bit?

Without my dcs with me i can park either car (one of which is a coupe with huge doors) in any old space and get out easily. When the dcs are with me this is not possible. So i often give up if there's no suitable space.
Some of the comments abot parents using p&c spaces (and, indeed toward parents on general) are quite nasty.
Were does all that aggression come from?

FrankWippery Sat 02-Mar-13 10:20:21

Shaky excellent idea, I shall do that later!

atthewelles Sat 02-Mar-13 11:57:09

Emily I think its the fact that they're often right beside the door and that some parents insist that, no matter what other people's circumstances, these spaces be kept free for them, which causes the annoyance that these spaces can provoke.

I don't think the issue of assigning extra wide spaces to people with small children and asking that, where possible, they be left free for those people, is unreasonable at all.

What does annoy me is when you see people on forums getting hot under the collar about elderly people, people who are not in the best of health etc parking beside the door when that space 'belongs' to parents with children. Or parents who think that, even if there's no other space free in the car park, you cannot park in that space.

To me it is fair to allocate wider spaces to parents somewhere in the main part of the car park; to treat this allocation as a polite request to customers and not as a command; and to accept that in a situation where there is no other space available to a person without a child, that they are entitled to park there.

Yes, some people are unnecessarily inconsiderate when it comes to P&T spaces. But some parents are also unnecessarily self entitled about these spaces.

Sirzy Sat 02-Mar-13 12:34:24

At the - exactly!

Crawling Sat 02-Mar-13 12:51:51

YANBU i have 3children two with special needs I dont have a blue badge as im not yet claiming dla for one and the other only qualifies for low mobility once she is 5.

I hardly ever get a p and c space. I really struggle getting two sn children and a baby out of the car safely without them running under cars. In a parent and child space there is more room meaning I get out quicker and can stop my special needs children getting hit by cars.

Also with them being close to shops I dont have to walk dc2 far who gets distressed if she has to walk more than 20feet.

I suspect that the reason that P&C spaces are nearer to the store is, at least partly, the fact that if you are designing a car park, and want to include wider spaces, perhaps with protected walkways, for disabled people and for parents and children, it is easier to make this one block, rather than two (or as small a number of blocks as possible) to maximise the use of carparking space. And because disabled parking spaces do need to be as close to the store as possible, this means that the P&C spaces end up with them.

And it is a shorter distance to where the trolleys are stored - though that is something which could be easily sorted by the supermarkets.

ShellyBoobs Sat 02-Mar-13 13:31:50

Other than blue badge spaces, it's a free-for-all as far as I'm concerned.

One shall park wherever the fuck one likes.

If 'mummies' don't like it, they can convey themselves to the far side of fuck.

Thanks.

Slainte Sat 02-Mar-13 14:58:14

What a delightful, community-spirited attitude ShellyBoobs, you must be very proud of yourself.

EeyoresGloomyPlace Sat 02-Mar-13 16:10:33

Lovely, shelleyboobs hmm

Why so much aggression (on both sides)?

notafoodbaby sums it up perfectly, just don't be selfish, have a bit of empathy and consideration for others and surely life would be a bit nicer and a bit easier for all concerned.

FamilyAngel Sat 02-Mar-13 16:21:17

I agree that it is selfish to park in a parent and child space when you do not have any children however there is always someone who will do this and they usually will not be affected by what you do or do not say. The main issue here Ameybee is how you feel and whether it is the action of the selfish person that is causing you to feel angry and upset or your thoughts about the person. My suggestion is that you ask yourself how you react when you have this thought and how you would feel without it. Then do what is best for you. You may feel it is in your own best interest to stop having the thought in the first place. :-)

RibenaFiend Sat 02-Mar-13 16:41:06

Going back to sirzy's comment about supermarkets fining people for misusing their spaces...

I had to pop into Tesco when I was looking after my DGodchild and so because I had a small child, parked in the parent and child area which is like a little car park area separate from the big carpark, no closer to the store however... DGodchild didn't bolt or anything but I liked that I had him in a "parents only" area. I decided the other drivers would be more vigilant when driving in and out and therefore safer"

We shopped. We left.

I received a bloody fine on my windscreen. A £60 fine I think. For "improper use" not because I didn't have a child with me. Because I wasn't a member of the Tesco parent and child club therefore wasn't permitted to park there.

Cunts.

Being only 20 at the time I naively paid the fine. Something 9years later I would not do without a bloody fight.

Patent and child spaces are all well and good but if you can't open your door, park further away where there is undoubtedly more space. I'm a skinny bitch with an old car. I take nothing but delight in parking within the lines next to expensive badly parked (juuuuust over the line taking up just part of another space) cars that are on the doorstep of a shop. I can get out fine without touching their car and I have no qualms about smiling sweetly and discussing their parking ability and choices with anyone who deems themselves important enough to have a pop at me. (Never do it with kids however in case expensive car owner has a filthy command of the English language)

"I'm sorry, my car is parked perfectly within the allocated space, I don't understand your problem. Are you implying that your improperly parked vehicle is somehow my fault?"

ShellyBoobs Sat 02-Mar-13 16:56:43

...you must be very proud of yourself.

Indeed, I am. wink

bursarymum Sat 02-Mar-13 16:59:21

You don't have to pay supermarket fines - they can't enforce them. The only fines that are are those issued by the council.

atthewelles Sat 02-Mar-13 17:02:55

So you go into Tesco, you spend money in the store, and they think they have the right to 'fine' you for the privilege? hmm. I think I would be writing them a very sharp letter basically telling them to 'go to hell'.

OutsideOverThere Sat 02-Mar-13 17:38:55

I reckon Shelly is the bloke with the twatty mid range car who looked like he was going to punch me when I asked him (politely) if he knew they were P&T spaces.

ShellyBoobs Sat 02-Mar-13 18:24:06

...the bloke with the twatty mid range car

Snob and entitled cunt at the same time?

lifeisalargebarofchocolate Sat 02-Mar-13 18:26:41

I park in them at the moment, I never ever park in disabled spaces.

I have a breastfed baby who screams for me the minute I leave the house, sometimes I run to shop for a sanity break, I park in the first space I find so I can get back as quickly as possible.

pixiegumboot Sat 02-Mar-13 18:39:40

Haven't read full thread but YANBU!!! its a safety issue. they are always by safe walkways into the shops. much safer to have parents/Prams/toddler s negotiating busy carparks. not. and yes, you ARE thoughtless (insert swear word) people if you use them and are not entitled angry

Sirzy Sat 02-Mar-13 18:44:41

they are always by safe walkways into the shops

no they arent

lifeisalargebarofchocolate Sat 02-Mar-13 18:45:59

they arent by safe walkways here

pixiegumboot Sat 02-Mar-13 19:22:58

yes they are

pixiegumboot Sat 02-Mar-13 19:23:13

no they aren't

pixiegumboot Sat 02-Mar-13 19:23:31

yes they are

pixiegumboot Sat 02-Mar-13 19:23:51

muuum she hit me

pixiegumboot Sat 02-Mar-13 19:24:09

she started it

pixiegumboot Sat 02-Mar-13 19:24:26

no I didn't she did

pixiegumboot Sat 02-Mar-13 19:25:13

etc etc etc fingers in ears la la la

Crawling Sat 02-Mar-13 19:32:52

Nice shelleyboobs I feel so much better when I struggle to keep my two special needs dc safe while I struggle to get my baby out because you basically dont give a fuck.

Maryz Sat 02-Mar-13 19:35:57

<ahem.

[childish snigger]

crawling, people like you should have access to safe places to park - imo the blue badge scheme should be extended and take the place of P&C places as people don't need a special space just because they have a child.

Lots of people need special places for other reasons, but not because of being a parent.

Crawling Sat 02-Mar-13 19:40:49

I have no issues with someone old or who has limited mobilty taking a space its just people who do because they dont care but I would be happy with the disabled spaces for lower disabilities being given instead of mum and baby but unfortunatly they wont do it.

Sirzy Sat 02-Mar-13 19:41:58

I agree Maryz.

ShellyBoobs Sat 02-Mar-13 20:36:17

Crawling - the point is that you need a particular space because of your circumstances.

The vast majority of parents don't need a special parking space but some feel incredibly entitled to one simply because they've reproduced.

If you're struggling to get your children out safely, your situation won't be helped by PFB spaces being full up with the cars of parents of children who are perfectly capable of using a standard space.

You should be given access to blue badge spaces or the PFB spaces at supermarkets should be relabelled as spaces for people with limited mobility or other issues which require them to have a larger space. That way the spaces would get far more respect from people as they would be seen as genuinely needed.

PFB spaces are a marketing ploy. Supermarkets know that if they don't provide them, they might lose business to other supermarkets, and in general people shopping with children tagging along spend more money when they shop.

The higher people's earnings, the more they spend (in general) too. Supermarkets would probably be just as happy to pander to high earners with nice spaces marked up us "40k+ salary only" but it wouldn't go down so well, would it.

lottieandmia Sat 02-Mar-13 21:50:37

I totally agree with shellyboobs.

' in general people shopping with children tagging along spend more money when they shop.'

Yep - my shopping bill goes up 15-20% when I have dd with me!!

I find that the same thing happens when I take dh shopping with me, lottieandmia! grin

lottieandmia Sat 02-Mar-13 21:52:59

Crawling - if your dc get LRM then you can still get a blue badge from the council - I think you will just need to provide evidence of needs. And of course, a lot of kids with mobility problems due to mental impairment are entitled to HRM anyway.

lottieandmia Sat 02-Mar-13 21:55:23

SDT grin

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 03-Mar-13 00:23:52

Shelley.

I'm curious,you've just said that some parents may have a legit need for the space but you also said words to the effect of "I'm using it if you don't like it fuck off"

If you visited the supermarket and a mum like the poster above with the legit need was also there,how would you judge if her need was genuine?

Or would you just not bother and take the space anyway just because you don't agree with them?

MrsDeVere Sun 03-Mar-13 00:32:04

AIBU to be a tad suspicious of all these P&C threads springing up?
There have been a few with petitions attached but they get deleted sharpish.
Is this one by the back door?

Trying to get everyone riled up enough to go and sign some sucky, whineyarse petition called 'spaces4bubz' or something.

Stop fucking whinging about car spaces. Its annoying and embarrassing and makes people thing mothers are all child-women who cannot cope with a baby and a shopping trolley.

In which case they shouldn't be left in charge of a car surely?

midastouch Sun 03-Mar-13 00:34:25

My DP does this i find it so embarassing! It is annoying but its one of those things some people are inconsiderate and dont care but id never say anything

OutsideOverThere Sun 03-Mar-13 07:32:17

'...the bloke with the twatty mid range car

Snob and entitled cunt at the same time? '

Yes I assume he was

Babybeesmama Sun 03-Mar-13 08:09:12

Mrsdevere no idea what you mean but there's nothing dodgy about this thread (I started it).

The point has gotten entirely lost sadly - I don't think I'm entitled to a p&c space everywhere I go & nor can I not shop without one. The point is its annoying if people who DON'T need it park in them! I have no problem with disabled people using them or those need it, I'm talking about those who just park in them for sheer selfish reasons.

I think its sad that parts of this thread have gotten nasty and personal.

MrsDeVere Sun 03-Mar-13 08:24:27

well in which case only the last bit of my post applies.

Specially the bit about how embarrassing these threads are and the impression they give of mothers of young children.

You do not need that P&C space. You want it, you like it but you do not need it.

I think its sad that we have gotten to the point where a marketing gimmick and a nice perk has become a necessity and a right.

Sirzy Sun 03-Mar-13 08:44:56

You can't judge who needs one by looking at them though. And therefore YABU to challenge someone using a space.

ShellyBoobs Sun 03-Mar-13 10:44:28

sock - I wouldn't be judging anyone; It's not my place to do so.

The point was that if the wider spaces were marked as being for people with less mobility or other particular needs (SN child who's difficult to get in/out, passenger with broken leg, etc) they would provide an actual benefit to customers, rather than being an unnecessary but seemingly god-given 'right' of people with children.

I actually saw two people arguing over a PFB space last week and the argument seemed to be around the fact that the person parked in the space didn't have the correct sticker in his window. Both drivers had children with them but this seemed to be lost on the lady who was sure she should have the space as she had the sticker.

Situations like that say it all for me really.

Babybeesmama Sun 03-Mar-13 10:46:59

So you have said sirzy .... Lots of times! I get that you think AIBU!!!

Shelly - I thought sock was asking you whether you would judge the woman as having more need of the space than you, and let her park in it instead of grabbing it for yourself - not whether you would be judgemental about her.

I have to say, I haven't met lots of mothers and fathers who think that P&C spaces are a God-given right, or that they must have one, in order to go shopping - most people that I have come across think they are a good thing, that makes life a bit easier, but if there isn't one available, they cope and it's not the end of the world.

I genuinely think it is churlish and mean for someone who doesn't NEED to use a P&C space to park in it.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 03-Mar-13 11:20:04

Sdt.

You are correct about my query that is exactly what I ment

Sirzy Sun 03-Mar-13 14:49:55

Baby perhaps that's because you keep insisting people have misunderstood in some effort to make out like it is reasonable to tell strangers off

Lockedout434 Sun 03-Mar-13 16:10:24

Bump for footie

ImperialBlether Sun 03-Mar-13 16:20:31

OK. Well, I have taken on board everything that's been said so far....

What do you think about someone parking in an adult and child bay later in the evening, say 9pm?

imperial I wondered that too. I personally think they are helpful. Use them if available. Park elsewhere if they're not. Dislike seeing people with no kids parked in them, unless they're disabled/otherwise immobile but perhaps sans badge.

But in the evening, when its raining, they're tempting. But I don't tend to. Don't think it matters then, they're usually all free.

<cue new thread about people who regularly drag their kids around Tesco at 9pm>

Maryz Sun 03-Mar-13 16:33:15

Oh, yes, we could have a whole new thread about that.

Because obviously people shouldn't be out with children at that time of night shock[judgy]grin

Unless their children have SN/never sleep or they are on their way home from the airport/hospital or some other unusual but vital reason for having children with them.

I said regularly and, oh dear never mind

Maryz Sun 03-Mar-13 16:40:45

Sorry, babies, I wasn't getting at you - I x-posted and hadn't seen your post.

I just think it would be a very funny thread. People could hoist their judgypants all over the place as we took 999 posts to thrash out what is the proper bedtime for children young enough to park in the P&C spaces - it would be a whole new set of bingo calls grin

Ah! Great minds think alike then grin I've got an itchy posting finger...

Babybeesmama Sun 03-Mar-13 16:42:56

Sirzy - I asked her if she knew it was p&c, and its YOUR opinion that its unreasonable - there are other opinions on here that say its not and you have repeated your opinion several times on here - I get it that's what YOU think! I've responded to what people have said - because this thread has gone round in circles, I've not tried to imply that its completly reasonable - I'm explaining my reasons.

Its getting boring now anyway....hmm

Sirzy Sun 03-Mar-13 16:44:11

Stop posting then!

Babybeesmama Sun 03-Mar-13 16:47:59

You stop first wink

crashdoll Sun 03-Mar-13 16:55:56

The bottom line is that it would be considerate not to park in P&C places if they don't really need them but telling people off for misusing them makes you look silly. They are a luxury, not a right. Some people on this thread have really pissed me off by comparing P&C spaces to blue badge spaces. Talk about entitled.

louisianablue2000 Sun 03-Mar-13 17:01:25

Our local supermarket has moved the P&C spaces to the back of the carpark with a trolley park next to it and a safe walkway to the door. It's fab because no-one uses it unless they want the extra space around the car. I have in the past told people off for using them without children or for using them with older children,I told off one father whose 10 year old was helping carry the shopping to the car and pointed out that as a parent he should know that there were other parents who needed the space more. I had two preschoolers and a baby bump so he did at least have the decency to look embarrassed.

gordyslovesheep Sun 03-Mar-13 17:26:00

aren't you nice - the age limit on many P+C spaces is 12 btw

if your 'told me off' I'd tell you off right back for being a dick

gordy smile

idiot55 Sun 03-Mar-13 18:10:40

Im reluctant to post this becasue last time I couldnt believe the inflammatory responses it got however.

years ago a parent couldnt get a parent and child space in our supermarket car park, without going into detail his 2 year old child was accidently killed right next to the car.

Im not saying she died as a direct result of ignorant people using parent and child spaces, but if she had been standing where she was in a parent and child space it wouldnt have happened.

Maryz Sun 03-Mar-13 18:18:40

That is very sad, idiot, but it is also irrelevant.

Because there cannot be a P&C space for every parent who takes a child to a supermarket. It is entirely possible that every space had a parent with a child parked in it.

And if a child was left to stand beside a car, and was killed, that could also have happened wherever the car was parked.

The point is that wider spaces and those near the door should be for those who need them, not for those who believe they have a right to them simply by dint of having a child (up to 12 ffs shock) with them.

Personally I believe there are a lot more P&C spaces abused by parents who have older children than there are by people who have no children. I would never even consider using a parent and child space if I didn't have either a baby in a car seat or more than one toddler/baby. Anyone with a single four year old doesn't need one. Nor does anyone with a 3 and 8 year old, for example, and yet those are the people who use them because they feel they have a right to.

If all those stopped, there would be plenty of spaces for parents with newborns who haven't worked out how the car seat works yet, parents of children with SN, or parents of quadruplets hmm.

harrietlichman Sun 03-Mar-13 18:25:21

YABU, just gets your kids out of the car, do your shopping and go home. Why we even need these ridiculous 'parent and child' spaces is beyond me. Pathetic.

Harriet - most of us on this thread have agreed that we do not NEED these spaces, but they make taking the kids shopping a bit easier - and I don't think that is such a dreadful thing. Just like we don't need automatic washing machines, or dishwashers or microwaves, but they make life a bit easier, so why not use them if they are available.

Pressed post too soon. I meant to finish by saying that life can be stressful and busy, so why shouldn't we use the odd thing to make it easier. And it is easier to get small children in and out of the car in a wider space. I am not saying it is impossible in ordinary spaces, but it is undoubtedly easier if you have more space.

Emilythornesbff Sun 03-Mar-13 18:59:14

SDTG. Agree.

MrsDeVere Sun 03-Mar-13 19:06:10

Yes it is. They are nice.
But they seem to have had a detrimental affect on people who have grown up with them.
So many feel entitled to them and they are most definitely seen on a par with blue badge spaces.

That is why I don't like them. Because of how people behave about them.

An its getting worse.

NayFindus Sun 03-Mar-13 19:17:47

I told MIL about this thread and she thoroughly agreed with the posters that say P&C are a luxury and unnecessary and in her day they didn't have them and coped much better thank you very much. So when I gave her a lift to Tesco today I dropped her off at the edge of the car park. The really, really HUGE CAR PARK.

She was a little bit confused that I didn't drop her at the front door. 'Oh but it's easier for me to exit the car park from here', which was completely true.

She's not talking to me anymore. I can't stop smiling grin

Babybeesmama Sun 03-Mar-13 19:26:33

SDTG you speak sense! Never once have I said in this thread I think I can't shop without them and the way people are going on you'd think id matched round the carpark with her head on a stick!

They may be a 'luxury' that still doesn't mean its ok to take advantage If you don't need them, its only about common courtesy!

I'm shocked that this thread has gotten quite aggressive in parts, its not hard to state your opinion without swearing or being rude. There are lots of things that are similar - its not illegal to go through the 'baskets only' till at the supermarket but if I was in front of you with a trolley piled high I'm sure you'd think ooh she's a bit inconsiderate! And I wouldn't do it because it is inconsiderate and that's all I mean! Yes I didn't know for certain the lady wasn't disabled (however there were free disabled spaces) or if her guinea pig had just died, etc etc but she said nothing of the sort so high probability she's just inconsiderate!

andubelievedthat Sun 03-Mar-13 19:34:59

537 posts ! re parking !

Babybeesmama Sun 03-Mar-13 19:59:16

538 after you posted grin

539 > 540 now. I like this game!

Babybeesmama Sun 03-Mar-13 20:10:00

Can we get it to 1000 so I stop getting lashed for starting it?? grin

WestieMamma Mon 04-Mar-13 08:35:49

Yes I didn't know for certain the lady wasn't disabled (however there were free disabled spaces) or if her guinea pig had just died, etc etc but she said nothing of the sort so high probability she's just inconsiderate!

No sorry, you're wrong on that. Her saying nothing of the sort only means there's a high probability that she felt she didn't have to justify herself to you. I get challenged by busybodies regularly over my parking. I don't even acknowledge their existence when they speak.

MorrisZapp Mon 04-Mar-13 08:43:28

Of course YANBU. In real life nobody would even debate that. Only on MN do you get opinions like these

whyno Mon 04-Mar-13 09:01:46

Yanbu totally agree

MagratOfStolat Mon 04-Mar-13 09:16:33

I confront people, who will (when they realize I'm as stubborn as a fucking mule and about as immovable as a mountain when it comes to my opinion of right and wrong) eventually move.

I had a brilliant Mexican Stand-off with a woman in a sports car at one point. My DP tried to pull into a P&C space and she tried to nip in before us. She couldn't get in without us moving, and we couldn't get in without her moving. So I got out of the car and asked rather sweetly where her child was, and whether she had lost them in a backseat vortex portal through time and space.

She turned purple with rage and screamed all kinds of profanity at me. But eventually moved. They will all move if you devote the time to your cause. [evil grin]

Honestly though? It's because I'm a stickler for things like that. It's like when people try to pull a full trolley into the "Ten Items Or Less" queue. I will always say something. Because quite frankly I don't give a stuff what people think of me, it's just manners to follow the same courtesies as everyone else follows.

lannyshrops Mon 04-Mar-13 11:59:28

I couldn't get into my car the other day due to 39 week bump and inconsiderate parking of person who parked next to me after I had left the car. I only have. Little car and I was parked nicely in the space. I Had to get in on the passenger side and climb over....probably looked a right idiot! Would I be allowed to use P&C space yet? smile

I think it's unlikely anyone (sane would deny you that).

I came out of my midwife appointment at 40 weeks with dd & there was a range rover either side of my car. It was snowing & I couldn't get in at all. I considered the boot as an access route!

The receptionists shouted out the registration numbers but everyone sat tight. V annoying. I was there for an extra 45 minutes!!!

luanmahi Mon 04-Mar-13 12:18:14

Only if it was the last one. It does annoy me as I never parked in one before having children and also don't park in them if I don't have baby with me. But there are plenty of things that annoy me about other people's driving / parking and I'd literally never be able to leave the house if I let them all get to me. Unless it causes an accident, just let yourself feel quietly superior to the other person knowing that you would never be so inconsiderate and get on with your day. smile

Emilythornesbff Mon 04-Mar-13 13:00:39

Magratofstolat. I envy your approach. Not caring what ppl think must be liberating. My problem is I care too much about this so avoid confrontation unless it's necessary to protect my dc. Mu dh is very assertive. I once asked him how he manage sit and his words were "because I'm not interested in what they think, just that I'm right" envy

atthewelles Mon 04-Mar-13 13:10:11

Louis I think you are taking these spaces waaay too seriously.

Indith Mon 04-Mar-13 13:42:38

There is a picture on my local FB page of a police van in a parent and child space <<throws cat among pigeons>>

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 04-Mar-13 13:49:13

I like p&c spaces purely because it's easier to get DS out the car. It's not easy in a normal space if someone has parked too close and you can't get the door open. So if one is free, then great.

Parking in them if you don't have a child is surely just inconsiderate. If I didn't have DS with me I'd park elsewhere.

And for all these people saying, well why not just park at the end of the car park where it's empty. Well, why don't you do that. Surely by parking in a p&c space when you don't need one is just lazy, and selfish.

atthewelles Mon 04-Mar-13 14:00:26

I think the point people are making, though, Pobble, is that while extra wide spaces may be required by parents, lobbying to also have them at the door of the supermarket thereby making those spaces inaccessible to other shoppers who might have an equally valid reason for wanting to park there, is a tiny bit selfish.

MrsDeVere Mon 04-Mar-13 14:16:19

indith I once went an bollocked a van full of police who were parked across three blue badge spaces because they were using the cashpoint.

DD thought it was hilarious.

There is a picture on my local FB page of a police van in a parent and child space <<throws cat among pigeons>>

Well, they do say that the policemen are getting younger, Indith! grin

Pobblewhohasnotoes Mon 04-Mar-13 15:53:51

atthewelles Mon 04-Mar-13 14:00:26
I think the point people are making, though, Pobble, is that while extra wide spaces may be required by parents, lobbying to also have them at the door of the supermarket thereby making those spaces inaccessible to other shoppers who might have an equally valid reason for wanting to park there, is a tiny bit selfish

I do see your point. P&c spaces don't need to be at the store entrance, it's just a nice thing if they are. If I go to ikea the p&c spaces are about halfway up the carpark. Hence probably why you're more likely to get one. Lobbying so that the spaces are at the front is extreme, I agree that other people less mobile need spaces at the front of the shop.

I use them for the space to get DS out, like I said. Else I have to put the pram behind the car which isn't as safe. I get annoyed with anyone using a disabled space without a blue badge too, it's all purely a lack of consideration for anyone other than yourself. People should be less selfish, really.

MrsFruitcake Mon 04-Mar-13 16:07:57

I used to be bothered about this sort of thing but now I just let it wash over me. I've come to the conclusion that most people are idiots with no manners and only a thought for themselves. Sad, but true.

CheeseandPickledOnion Mon 11-Mar-13 15:29:23

Allthewellies is right, its the entitlement which is frustrating. People managed for years without them. You don't need them. It is not a lifelong entitlement.

Over is still clearly frustrated that I dared to park in one for 2 minutes while accessing the cash point. It's that level of entitlement that pisses me off.

I would never usually use one. I wouldn't use one with my 7 yr old DSS.

But it's not a crime if I did. If every other single car park space was taken, should I have to turn around and go home and not shop because there is only a P&C space left?

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