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To have told this bloke to F off

(95 Posts)
kittysaysmiaow Wed 27-Feb-13 17:25:37

I was walking DS (11 weeks) round the block in his buggy. I probably looked pretty miserable-I'm not, just sleep deprived and DS (11 weeks) has been alternately feeding and screaming at me non stop all day so I just wanted to get out of the house for a short walk. I walked past a group of pissed blokes standing outside a pub and one of them gave it the old 'give us a smile luv' and I snapped and told him to F off. I feel really annoyed with myself that I let him get the better of me but WHAT is an appropriate reply to this bloody annoying comment?

ParsleyTheLioness Wed 27-Feb-13 17:31:19

It's really frustrating. And sexist, I have never heard them say it to another male.

Any response you want to make is appropriate. Verbal, that is - if you gun them down with an Uzi it would be an actual problem grin

Pissed blokes harassing you? Say what you like.

CatelynStark Wed 27-Feb-13 17:32:12

Good for you - that really pisses me off too.

CourgetteSmuggler Wed 27-Feb-13 17:34:01

It is annoying! but I wouldn't let it bother you now, what's done is done and it's a pretty good reply.

sue52 Wed 27-Feb-13 17:34:30

Your comment to them was appropriate. You could have been ruder and it would still have been alright.

LaurieFairyCake - Any response you want to make is appropriate. Verbal, that is - if you gun them down with an Uzi it would be an actual problem - should I go to the buggies section to see which ones offer purpose built storage for the Uzi?

OP - well done for speaking up.

PuppyMonkey Wed 27-Feb-13 17:41:50

Totally reasonable grin

Kooza Wed 27-Feb-13 17:45:15

Only slightly less annoying than the "it might never 'appen" brigade.

Poor you, it will get better. Well done for getting out of the house at all!

kittysaysmiaow Wed 27-Feb-13 17:47:03

Thanks for the responses. I'm glad it's not just me that finds it sexist and harassing. Just wish I had dealt with it in a more dignified way than swearing like a trooper whilst pushing a buggy smile

Enfyshedd Wed 27-Feb-13 18:02:21

Ah yes Kooza - "Cheer up Love, it might never 'appen". Just the thing you want to hear a day or 2 after you've ID'd a friend's body when you're 13 weeks pg hmmsad.

Missmodular Wed 27-Feb-13 18:03:58

I wouldn't make a habit of it - a random bloke once told me to cheer up, I told him where to go and he got really offended and started following me, calling me a bitch. It was really scary hmm

OutsideOverThere Wed 27-Feb-13 18:05:31

You did Ok. He won't even remember it if he was pissed. Wanker.

I normally ignore, or pretend not to hear, or say fuck off, if I'm feeling particularly cross, or look at them puzzled and keep walking.

Not worth worrying about though I imagine you feel knackered and shitty already, forget it, honestly. You did nothing bad. (I have an 8wo so understand the doom)

claig Wed 27-Feb-13 18:13:48

I agree with MissModular, you have to be careful because you don't know how pissed people or even sober people will react.

aldiwhore Wed 27-Feb-13 18:30:25

YANBU but perhaps unwise in telling a group of pissed men to fuck off, unless you're a karate expert or can run fast (or have that Uzi stored in a grabable place), you could have put you and your child in danger.

Like I say YANU, but...

flippinada Wed 27-Feb-13 18:46:02

Not unreasonable at all. Don't beat yourself up for not reacting "correctly". Did they fuck off and leave you alone? If so, job done.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 27-Feb-13 19:09:24

It is fucking annoying and patronising.

I once told someone to fuck off when they said it to me - i was depressed at the time.

Betrayedbutsurvived Wed 27-Feb-13 19:12:01

Good, for you. That's my absolute pet hate. How dare some random bloke basically call me a miserable bitch just because I don't walk round with a rictus grin so he can kid himself i fancy him. Tossers!!!

And breathe!!!

Well I'm going to buck the trend here and say Very Unreasonable.

I'll bet every one of you who drinks alcohol in excess of what you should (ie pissed) has done/said something you shouldn't.

"Give us a smile luv" is not "Get your tits out" is it?

Why would you give someone a mouthful of abuse for trying to cheer you up?

Just sneer and walk on. Or "What-ever"

No need for swearing hmm

Enfyshedd flowers I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. That must have been a harrowing experience for you.

flippinada Wed 27-Feb-13 19:22:07

Agree that it's annoying, patronising and sexist. Not to mention bloody rude.

OutsideOverThere Wed 27-Feb-13 19:24:26

70 - I think the problem is we're not sure if the motive is actually to try and cheer us up. It seems like on occasion it's that they feel resentful that we may not look a picture of happy joyful womanhood, and want us to smile for their benefit, not giving a shit whether we're actually happy or not.

That's usually the impression I've got anyway.

OutsideOverThere Wed 27-Feb-13 19:26:04

Also if it is intended to cheer us up. is it really their place to? They are assuming we have no preoccupations worth a ha'penny.

Enfyshedd Wed 27-Feb-13 19:30:14

Hi Fortifiedwithtea -It was a bit. Another friend arrived before I went in so I had the opportunity to duck out, but I sort of felt duty bound as I'd already told the police officer and my friend's son I'd do it (friend was old, but under 70 so not that old). Other friend came in with me for support and I think we were both glad we didn't have to do it alone. Was gutted that I hadn't had a chance to see my friend in the 2 weeks since I'd had my first scan. He was like an uncle to me and 15 months on, he is still very missed by our friends and I and we're sorry that he missed his first grandchild's birth last month.

flippinada Wed 27-Feb-13 19:32:20

It's the assumption that any attention from a man (even an ugly, thick pissed one) is welcome.

It's the expectation that women are decorative objects, there to look pleasing to men and must be reminded of that if they dare to look otherwise.

I could go on in this vein for some time, I warn you! grin

flippinada Wed 27-Feb-13 19:33:56

Enfyshedd how terrible. Poor you, and your friend.

YANBU k& good for you. Also, this too shall pass. I had this nearly a year ago, DS was 1 week old, had literally ripped me a new one & my very dear aunt died suddenly & I couldn't do the 3 hour car journey to be with my cousin. I told the chap to fuck off & precisely why.

spiritedaway Wed 27-Feb-13 19:38:50

Some dog virtually jumped into my child's Pushchair when i was crossing a busy road. The guy came over and grabbed him and explained he was just a big daft puppy. I didn't kick off or complain even but just because i remained stony faced and didn't smile sweetly he ended up calling me a miserable bitch. . you did the right thing OP .

PopeBenedictsP45 Wed 27-Feb-13 19:53:28

YANBU. The reason why it is offensive is because they are forcing you to engage - their need for interaction trumps your need to just be left alone.

And like someone said above - you would NEVER hear a bloke say to another bloke 'come on mate, smile'.

I would have done the same grin

My stock response it, "you appear to be under the mistaken impression that I exist to provide you with entertainment. I do not. Piss off."

ErrorError Wed 27-Feb-13 20:55:49

I hate with a passion the phrase "cheer up luv, it might never happen". For starters, WHAT might never happen? I don't get it. Secondly, it is irritating and doesn't take into account circumstance, as evidenced by Enfyshedd's awful experience. I'd be inclined to clock them in the face! Or watch their mortification as I venomously tell them why I'm not smiling.

The best response OP, is to give them the creepiest joker-esque smile you can muster and walk on in silence. I only wish someone had the courage to try this!

kittysaysmiaow Wed 27-Feb-13 21:33:13

Enfyshedd, I am so sorry that happened to you hmm awful.

andubelievedthat Wed 27-Feb-13 21:59:29

i love these posts, the replies in particular, you, annoyed at some unwanted attn from drunk male reply with language you would not use in front of a child? and everyone says well done !

aldiwhore Wed 27-Feb-13 22:04:25

I totally accept it's patronising, cringeworthy, bloody annoying.. BUT telling a bunch of pissed up people to fuck off is not wise, not when you're in charge of a child.

Though I completely understand WHY you did it, I just can't say "Well done", hope you don't think I'm being a picky bastard, I've known people get really REALLY hurt for lesser reaction, makes me bite my tongue.

Of course, there's a time when you have to say something, even if unwise... so maybe IABU or reading too much into it.

YANBU. I always reply with, "I only smile when there's something worth smiling at". That seems to shut them up. grin

TartyMcTart Wed 27-Feb-13 22:06:04

Are you all really that bothered? It's just a random comment made by a random man. It honestly would not bother me, knackered or not.

What if someone wolf whistles at you? Would that offend you too?

NotSoNervous Wed 27-Feb-13 22:06:05

YANBU

TartyMcTart - wolf whistles sure would offend me. Am I out in the street to have my attractiveness assessed loudly and publicly by random strangers? No, I am not.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 28-Feb-13 02:35:25

Agree with the assessments of the meaning of this kind of behaviour from men.

Also agree that swearing is perhaps not an ideal response, but am not going to berate someone for doing it once in a while.

YADNBU. Sexist Tosser behaviour.

PopeBenedictsP45 Thu 28-Feb-13 02:57:10

What if someone wolf whistles at you? Would that offend you too?

Erm, yes. hmm Because I am just going about my day and not really up for having anyone check out my body and then verbalise their opinion of it.

HollyBerryBush Thu 28-Feb-13 05:56:34

Ahthe days of wold whistles, you feel like shit, you get one and all of a sudden you have a spring in your step grin

Although by virtue of the comments on here let me give you this situation.

When heavily pregnant I bumped into a general acquaintance who said, without pausing for breath "Awww! nearly due now? lovely! nipping out to get your mum something for mothers day before you have it?? Lovey! good luck!bye!"

According to you lot I guess I should have screamed like a banshee after her "you utter %$£ why don't you ^know she died last week and I'm out looking for a funeral dress?"

You see, talking to people, often contains meaninless pleasentries, even if inept.

Come to think of it, having just filled up the car (4am) I initiated a converstion with the lad on the counter "must get lonely here at night" to whit he replied "no love, its nice and quiet, I like it"... O.M.G he called me love, I suppose I should report him, see if I can get him sacked or deported or something, the horror of using a term of endearment to some one old enough to be your mother. Christ I don't know how I'm going to get through the day without therapy

hmm

BerthaKitt Thu 28-Feb-13 06:12:43

Holly neither of your examples bear any relation to the situation described by the OP. Can you really not see that? confused

MidnightMasquerader Thu 28-Feb-13 06:17:09

Of course she can, it's just much more annoying fun to be disingenuous. smile

HollyBerryBush Thu 28-Feb-13 06:25:51

people look for something to be offended about all of the time.

If I spent my life in the state of angst some of the board members seem to, I'd be on a double dose of beta blockers.

I can't remember the last time someone annoyed me - either I skate through life paying scant attention to anyone (this is probably true grin) or I take them at face value, not looking for hidden and subversive meanings.

DolomitesDonkey Thu 28-Feb-13 06:28:30

Oh good lord. Is it really beyond the realms of all possibility that he saw a miserable looking woman and wanted to inject a little kindness and let her know she wasn't alone in the world? Men are not renowned for being enigmatic conversation starters and fewer will try when encountering such a bunch of sour-pusses.

Holly you seem to spend your life in horrified disbelief at the ridiculous attitudes of the majority of posters on here. Perhaps that takes up so much of your time that you just don't notice RL incidents?
Oh & I agree your examples were bizarrely irrelevant.

Although I should say, sorry about your mum. That must've been really crap. sad

complexnumber Thu 28-Feb-13 07:21:26

"Offence is not given, it is taken"

Lottapianos Thu 28-Feb-13 07:26:47

Yes that was definitely his intention Dolomites - to make her feel betterhmm Not to make her feel embarassed and flustered for his entertainment. Never mind how OP feels - let's put his feelings first shall we?

By the way, it is actually ok for people to feel differently about experiences - if it wouldn't have bothered you, good for you. It bothered OP enormously and I can completely understand why.

YANBU OP, not in the least. You weren't walking down the street for his viewing pleasure, you were minding your own business and he should have done the same.

Agree with other posters that blokes never ever say this to another bloke, or to a woman who is with a bloke for that matter. It stinks.

ithaka Thu 28-Feb-13 07:30:21

YANBU, but take care. I did similar once and the blokes threw a glass at me - nasty little shits.

I remember when my son had died, navigating the streets head down and engulfed in shock for months. I had a very upsetting incident, with a random man who thought he had the right to judge me as not sufficiently warm and womanly. You just do not need random strangers intruding into your life who have no idea what is going on. Anyone who does deserves to be told to fuck off. But sadly the insensitive pricks who make such comments are just the sort to lash out when you don't respond 'nicely'.

lotta quite.

(why can only other people crystallise my jumbled mess of sleep deprived thoughts ?)

flippinada Thu 28-Feb-13 07:53:01

I see a few professionally unoffended types have happened on this thread with their usual fatuous, inane commentary.

However since none of them take offence at anything they will read my comment with a tinkly laugh and skip off to another thread to spread the joy with their delightful bon-mots.

MidnightMasquerader Thu 28-Feb-13 08:30:11

grin

grin

kittysaysmiaow Thu 28-Feb-13 09:06:19

I accept I was U for swearing like that especially in front of little DS hmm not nice. But Dolomites I'm pretty sure from his tone and demeanour that he was not concerned for my well being or trying to be kind

Pagwatch Thu 28-Feb-13 09:17:24

The professionally unoffended is a whole new can of worms grin

I quite like the notion that men are so thick and inarticulate that, when faced with a woman he wants to engage with, shouting 'cheer up love it might never happen' is all his near Neanderthal brain can reach for.

It's a lovely work where the men are pig thick and the women smile and are grateful. <skips>

Personally I would ignore rather than respond.
It is the most banal of pleasantries though because it ignores the idea that one thing might actually have happened. A woman said it to my mum in tescos once and my mum replied 'well my husband of nearly fifty years died yesterday so actually it just did'.

Ilovexmastime Thu 28-Feb-13 09:17:47

Anyone who thinks that a pissed up bloke, with a group of mates, saying that to an unknown woman is just trying to cheer her up is a bit dim imho.

Spoonful Thu 28-Feb-13 09:22:21

Someone asking me to give them a smile doesn't cheer me up.
Why would it?

Am I obliged to smile at random people? That makes me feel less cheerful, not more cheerful. I want control of my own face, goddammit!

flippinada Thu 28-Feb-13 09:25:16

kitty anyone who thinks swearing in front of an 11 week old baby is awful is being daft. Harassing a worn out and stressed new mum is far worse behaviour in my opinion.

They aren't going to remember it and they're certainly not going to repeat it, are they? smile

SanityClause Thu 28-Feb-13 09:55:47

Telling someone to smile is just arrogant.

Saying something funny, or pleasant, or kind that makes them want to smile and then receiving a smile in return, is a friendly social interaction. And may well act to cheer someone up, which demanding a smile will not.

limitedperiodonly Thu 28-Feb-13 10:06:12

grin that's for flippinada

KellyElly Thu 28-Feb-13 11:42:14

Irritating and I usually respond with "why would I smile at you, weirdo". Hate it, hate it, hate it.

Omnishambolic Thu 28-Feb-13 12:05:19

DC2 used to have a screaming fit every late afternoon. I used to take him for a walk in the pram as it was less painful than being in the house. I used to go round and round the park, or along the river, with a "say a word and I WILL kill you" scowl on my face, with the screams echoing off any nearby walls/trees/hard surfaces. If anyone had said that to me, then "fvck off" would be the very least of it. Good for you.

(It WILL get better but that's no help at the moment.)

Actually - can I recommend trying to out hassle people? I got fed up with being hassled by the Scientologists in town. One day when one of them was in my face I went right up to him with my best mad, scary eyes and hissed with my face about 12 inches from his that he should "just. fvck. off. and. leave. people. alone".

Next time I went past none of them went near me. So they think I'm a nutter. Meh. It worked.

Sunnywithshowers Thu 28-Feb-13 12:18:59

YANBU at all.

slug Thu 28-Feb-13 12:27:00

grin Omnishambles. I hiss "cult" at the Scientologists who block my way to the tube station daily. They've learnt to back off now.

Boomerwang Thu 28-Feb-13 13:33:21

When I was much younger I walked past a couple of builders in town and one of them said 'you've dropped something, luv'. I looked down and then he said 'your balls!' which made his mate laugh.

I said 'they must be mine, cuz they sure as hell can't be yours' which made his mate laugh even louder.

I do get irritated when people say that 'cheer up' shit. I obviously have a reason for looking moody and it's none of their business how I present myself.

I wouldn't have shouted 'fuck off' as it's not how I do things. I would have either rolled my eyes to let it be known I expected nothing less from 'such a person' or just ignored it. What's he going to say when you've walked off? 'Moody cow!' about sums it up. Then you both get on with your lives.

OK

Take on board.
I work in NHS with a whole variety of patients and some are MH patients who on the outside you wouldn't look give a second glance at.
But they start to chat and yes, some of them sound incoherant because of their thought processing and yes I can think of a few who sound drunk (but they're not)

They will say to me "hello love, hello darling" etc all terms of endearment and greeting.

So all of you who are patting yourselves on the back and congratulating yourselves for swearing at a complete stranger...

What if it was one of the men that I treat.
If you told them to "F off" when they were just trying in your way to be conversational ( Lovely lady with a lovely baby. Why does she look sad? I'll say cheer up love "

Because YOU DON'T KNOW

Well, I hope you're all darned proud of yourselves , eh?

MidnightMasquerader Thu 28-Feb-13 23:47:23

The OP walked past a group of pissed blokes outside a pub, but nice guilt-tripping, 70.

But yes of course, far better that everyone smiles and is polite and ladylike, and buttons their lip and is accommodating to the 99% neanderthals, just in case it's actually the 1% with special needs...

Well you just carry on justifying swearing at a complete stranger.

What's the deal with saying nothing?

Unless you know 100% that the man you told to fuck off won't come over and punch your lights off/ pull a knife.

But , hey, carry on.

Sorry 70isaLimitNotaTarget, I don't buy that. What you're doing is the ever-common victim blaming.

I'm not going to quietly be the nice little woman who knows my place (ie, to be decorative for men's amusement) just on the minuscule off change that a drunken lout happens to have mental health issues.

If you want things to be better for your mental health patients, how about blaming the drunken louts who think it's their right to make women feel vulnerable and uncomfortable, so that they always assume a man has the worst motives for shouting out?

The big deal with saying nothing is that when you accept it, he wins and will carry right on doing it to other women. I challenge sexism whenever I see it. And racism, and disable-ism (?). Nothing will ever change otherwise.

ClippedPhoenix Fri 01-Mar-13 00:04:48

I'd not really take offence to this one to be honest.

If after a few sherberts myself and I saw someone as miserable as sin i may say the same thing.

What on earth has it got to do with being a woman vs. a man?

I'd have said get out of the pub and push this then. No big deal.

Victim blaming. Is that what I'm doing?

Is it any consulation if someone is lying in a hospital bed with a broken arm and half their teeth punched out to say "Well I showed him no-one calls me love and gets away with it"

Because (slightly off tangent) how many people get embroiled in motoring road rage incidents because they were right to blast the horn at someone, who takes offence

I'd sooner keep my face intact and think "idiot" than tell someone to F off.

And do you seriously think that shouting this to a drunk git will make him change his immoral ways?

No.
Let them make a fool of themselves.

Yes, that's my view. Whistle all you like Sonny Jim because you can't have me.
End of.

complexnumber Fri 01-Mar-13 00:10:48

"My stock response it, "you appear to be under the mistaken impression that I exist to provide you with entertainment. I do not. Piss off." "

That looks pretty smart on the screen, but to be honest I cannot see it being treated with anything but howls of laughter and mock imitation as you walk past a boozer with the lads hanging out.

All they are looking for is a response. If you do, they are happy (no matter how you respond). If you don't they will have fogotten about it well before the pint is empty.

I meant you were victim-blaming in your claim that women should feel guilty in case they responded rudely to your mental health patients.

ClippedPhoenix Fri 01-Mar-13 00:32:28

One person said a silly remark, the other told them to fuck off?

Come on now let's not get ridiculous about it.

Spoonful Fri 01-Mar-13 07:59:23

I don't mind people calling me love, or pet, or duck, or whatever. I don't think I even register when it happens really.
I didn't think that's what the thread was about, but some people keep bringing it up.

FelicityWasCold Fri 01-Mar-13 08:19:03

70 you are veering from,

'These men am have MH issues, are vulnerable themselves and just want to be nice'

Through to

'You shouldn't react in case these drunken louts put you in hospital'

Depending on which opinion you think people will agree with, why are you so determined to discredit/ignore the feelings of the OP?

Lottapianos Fri 01-Mar-13 08:25:14

Some people tie themselves in knots and work incredibly hard to discredit how other people feel. And yes it is victim blaming 70

MidnightMasquerader Fri 01-Mar-13 08:28:04

And personally? No, I would never have the guts to tell someone to 'fuck off', but I don't blame the OP for doing so in the slightest.

Spottyblancmange Fri 01-Mar-13 08:42:14

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with what 70 said, I do wonder why whenever there is a post about what, on the surface, appears to be bad behaviour from children SN (which encompasses the whole spectrum including MH issues in children) are always, always taken into consideration, obviously as they should be, but when it's about adults, it becomes a 99% vs 1% thing suddenly. The vast majority of children with SN grown up to be adults with SN (even then it doesn't magically disappear at 18.) MH issues can strike anyone at any time. Why is the attitude on here so sympathetic to children with SN but dismissive towards any consideration an adult could? I'd hazard a guess because that's generally how society is.

Spottyblancmange Fri 01-Mar-13 08:43:54

There are far too many commas in that first sentence sorry, can't see what I'm typing beyond the last four or five words on this phone.

flow4 Fri 01-Mar-13 08:44:54

Blokes round here often tell each other to fuck off. So do teenage girls. It's only us middle aged, middle class women who restrain ourselves. If you think 'oh fuck off', why not say it? It's actually slightly odd to continue to be 'nice' if someone is being deliberately annoying... grin

MidnightMasquerader Fri 01-Mar-13 08:46:55

True. grin

Spottyblancmange - I would equally point out on threads about bad behaviour from children when the SN card is played, that it is 99% more likely that the child is simply badly behaved. Though I do try to judge less these days just in case.

Also, given the setting (drunken lad outside a pub rather than a sober adult in a shop, for example) that he is simply a badly-behaved adult rather than someone with SN.

I don't expect people to agree with me but YY to Spotty

How many times does someone post that Child A is being a right little git but gets bombarded with "Child A might have SN/ ADD"

Then it's an elderly person "being a grumpy old cow" . No, it might be a elderly person with Dementia or Alzheimers

But children become adults and how many people have undiagnosed issues (MH or otherwise)

But a drunk bloke- well he deserves to be told to go off and multiply.

Well, I'm off now.
But if someone drunk looks at me/ calls at me or whatever, I'll walk away and look with contempt.

That's being an adult IMO.

And WRT to the OP (as I'm ignoring her views /feelings apparently)

Give us a smile luv is not in any way sexual harassment?
Reword it as "Oi your miserable face might sour milk" is rude but not sexist either or in any way a come-on.

"WHAT is the appropriate reply to this bloody annoying comment* OP asked,
.
Nothing is the reply.
As in silence.Don't feed the trolls as they say on MN. Don't waste your oxygen talking out loud to them.
Walk on.

Pendeen Fri 01-Mar-13 11:56:01

"Just wish I had dealt with it in a more dignified way than swearing like a trooper"

My thoughts exactly.

A very coarse way to react, however tired or fed up you are.

targaryen24 Fri 01-Mar-13 11:57:14

I'd have thrown a 'used' muslin cloth at him & bonked him on the head (so he could feel as disorientated as I did for those first few months) then asked him where his smile had vanished to...grin

prepares for flaming !!

targaryen24 Fri 01-Mar-13 11:58:15

(well, i'd have imagined doing it, and probably ignore it/not have even heard it anyway as I was too tired to hear anything but my DS) brew

BonaDrag Fri 01-Mar-13 12:28:04

I was wondering how long before someone came on here and said 'oh but what if they had mental health issues'.

Fucking AIBU bingo.

Boomerwang Fri 01-Mar-13 14:01:56

hahaha BonaDrag I really liked that smile

If a drunk bloke hanging outside of a pub leering at women did indeed have mental health issues, why should that stop me responding in whichever way I please? Clearly his illness doesn't stop him being a fully committed member of society right down to having a few pints in the pub. Equality swings both ways, right?

showtunesgirl Fri 01-Mar-13 14:06:53

I have been sick for a few weeks with a nasty bug as well as a nice bout of conjunctivitis, thanks DD. hmm

I was at the train station at a Geordie guy said to me: For fuck's sake, cheer up pet.

As if THIS was actually going to cheer me up! confused

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