To just expect a bit of loyalty from friends?

(73 Posts)
TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 12:59:52

I feel I'm a good friend to my friends, and I'm very loyal. I respect decisions friends make or their opinions even though I may not necessarily agree. It'd be nice if friends could do the same for me but they clearly can't.

I have a group of 7 girl friends, and we have regular nights out and meet ups. One woman from this group, to whom I've never been particularly close, has made it plainly obvious in the past few months that she does not like me. She never replies to any contact I try to make with her, gives me the cold shoulder when we go out as a group, ignores any comments I make on her Facebook statuses and photos, and more recently when a family member of mine died she didn't make any contact to offer any support or say she was sorry to hear the news. So I decided after this not to intiate any further contact with her, and to be polite on nights out, but to class her as an aquaintance rather than a friend.

She is due to have a caesarean on Friday with her third child, and this morning another woman from this group of friends, who I do consider a good friend, has phoned me and basically had a go at me as I've not contacted this woman to wish her luck with her section. I said to my friend of course I wish this woman all the best but that she has made it clear we're not friends as such so I was just leaving things be and not making any contact. My friend is now really cross with me and says I'm bearing a grudge, when I'm not, I just don't have time chasing people who don't appreciate me and can't be bothered with me. I have all the time in the world for those that I consider a good friend and who treat me as I treat them, but haven't the time or inclination to try to please everyone.

AIBU to expect a bit of loyalty and respect from my friend?

atthewelles Tue 26-Feb-13 13:05:45

Well, I think your friend should keep her nose out and respect your wishes in regard to whether or not you want to make contact with this woman.

Why is she getting involved? Is she normally the bossy type?

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:06:08

This is why I don't bother with female friends.

All too political and everyone has an opinion!

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 13:06:54

No not at all, atthewelles, she's normally pretty quiet. I felt like I had to explain myself to her and it made me feel like I was about 5 years old! And now she's in a mood anyway

atthewelles Tue 26-Feb-13 13:08:46

Well, YANBU. This girl has no right to force people in the group to be 'friends' on a one on one basis. In a group there are often one or two people who really only socialise together because they are part of an overall group but don't have much in common outside the group. Your friend sounds like she's being a bit childish over all of this.

Zaphiro Tue 26-Feb-13 13:10:00

It's the year 6 cloakrooms! I can see how this has escalated. The correct response to your friend would have been "oh, haven't I? Must have slipped my mind. We're not very close" then changed the subject. Now you've added fuel to the gossip and made it seem like you've thought it all through and decided to be mean in response to a perceived slight. I'd recommend staying aloof.

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 13:10:23

Now it's left me questioning myself about whether I'm doing the right thing in just not bothering with this other woman. I don't see much point in bothering with her when she doesn't seem to like me

everlong Tue 26-Feb-13 13:10:45


Sometimes in groups of friends there will always be those who stick together, for numerous reasons. Even if you think you are one of them.

It sounds like the other woman has issues with you for whatever reason. In your situation I probably wouldn't have send her a message either, given the way she's behaved with you.

How's it been left with your friend now?

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 13:11:04

I need to learn more about the art of aloof-ness, Zaphiro!

Sugarice Tue 26-Feb-13 13:11:30

This friend should really mind her own business. has the pregnant friend been bitching to her about you, would you think?

Zaphiro Tue 26-Feb-13 13:12:27

Haha, you'll get there OP! YANBU for not bothering with the rubbish friend, FWIW.

I don't think you can demand that someone should behave the way you want. I see why you're calling it 'loyalty', but to her, she either didn't realize how she was behaving and is bemused at you not getting in touch, or she doesn't like you very much, in which case, there's not a lot of point pretending you get on. You're an adult, you get to choose your friends and why you'd want to pretend to get on with someone you dislike is beyond me, really.

Just get together with the ones you like and have a good time.

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 13:13:07

I think so Sugarice. She is the kind of person that everyone runs around after, bit of a pampered princess

popcornpaws Tue 26-Feb-13 13:13:32

So very true!

BodieBolts Tue 26-Feb-13 13:15:11

This is why I don't bother with female friends.

What an awful view to have and so stereotypical.

SucksToBeMe Tue 26-Feb-13 13:16:41

I don't think YABU, you tried, then took a sensible step back. Has the unfriendly one moaned about you not getting in contact?

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 13:20:04

Yes I think she must have done. The other woman, who I thought was my friend, phoned me specifically to ask why I hadn't made any contact with the woman who is having the section.

DeWe Tue 26-Feb-13 13:21:32

I agree with Zaphiro.
Slipped my mind, sounds much better than "she's nasty to me first".

But she must have said something to say how hurt/upset/surprised/pleased she is otherwise no one would know you hadn't said something personally.

I'm not sure it's about loyalty though.

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:21:51

Bodie you might think it's an awful view but it's my experience and in my experience it's true.

I know a number of women who feel the same. Funnily enough, they are the only women I'm friendly with.

popcornpaws Tue 26-Feb-13 13:21:58

awful view? have you read the posts on here? Same old same old...

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:24:32

And that ^^(to popcorn's post)

MN is full of threads about women complaining about how they've been treated by their female friends.

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:24:44

Like this one for example!

DorisIsWaiting Tue 26-Feb-13 13:25:28

My guess
The unreasonable 'friend@ is stirring- You are not bothered by her cold shoulders so she is upping the ante.

There is no way anyone else would know whether you have been in touch or not. Brush it off but do not be surprised if she 'acts hurt / wounded' to others in the group and you are omitted from things if she is the focus...

everlong Tue 26-Feb-13 13:25:51

I think women can make great friends. But in groups of women there will always be some bitching and people being two faced and not wanting to be seen as the bad one ( like your friend )

I've been stung recently. It hurts, especially when you have been close to someone for a long time. But you live and learn.

BodieBolts Tue 26-Feb-13 13:28:01

Yes I do think that's an awful view to have.

When I was 21 I went abroad to live and work for a summer. I shared a room with 2 other girls, and found out that the third girl had purposely moved out of our room because she hated girls (none of us had even met her at that point)

She then said to me "I don't like girls because they don't like me"

She really had the mentality of "you're not going to like me so I'm not going to like you first". By the time she realised that I wasn't what she expected and wanted to be friends I wasn't interested because of the way she'd treated me before.

Basically don't just assume that because someone is a woman you don't want to be friends with them because they are a bitch and will hate you.

Everyone is an individual and not just a gender.

BodieBolts Tue 26-Feb-13 13:29:53

MN is full of threads about women complaining about how they've been treated by their female friends.

Because it's a forum generally used by women.

Anyway I should stop posting because it;s detracting from the actual OP.

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:32:14

So you're interpretting a comment I made within the context of someone you encountered in another country when you were 21.

I think that's where the generalisation lies not in my comment!

What everlong said has summed it up well.

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:33:15

But yes, don't want to detract from OP. smile

Acandlelitshadow Tue 26-Feb-13 13:33:47

FFS are the pair of them ten?

Time for a downsize to a group of five I think.

Hullygully Tue 26-Feb-13 13:35:04

You should say, "Oh, did she mind? How awful! I have been very hurt that she has been so cold to me lately and didn't get in touch when X happened, so I was trying to respect her wish for distance and no contact from me."

BodieBolts Tue 26-Feb-13 13:35:12

Nope just using that as an example smile as it wasn't too long ago that happened.

ballstoit Tue 26-Feb-13 13:35:15

Sounds like the pg friend is unimpressed that you havent responded to her rude behaviour. I'd be tempted to say to the 'go between' frienf that you will make an effort and see how it goes.
Then write a 'good luck' message on her fb wall.

Wont cost you anything, and puts the ball firmly back in princesses court.

AnaisB Tue 26-Feb-13 13:36:52

It's a shame so many women seem to be down on other women. Maybe such people are over-represented on mumsnet.

OP you're not unreasonable to have reduced contact with this woman, but I would probably avoid discussing it with others in the group.

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:36:56

as it wasn't too long ago that happened Fair enough! 21 is a looooooong time ago for me. sad <wistful>

Maybe I've just had many more years than you to become jaded and cynical grin

TheSecondComing Tue 26-Feb-13 13:37:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goldenbear Tue 26-Feb-13 13:38:46

Sounds like it is just women being typical women- childish, bitchy, blah, blah, blah- try hanging out with just men.

perceptionreality Tue 26-Feb-13 13:40:46

yanbu - why should you chase her when she's made it clear you are not friends?

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 13:41:32

SecondComing, whenever I make any contact with her though she doesn't reply. Plus she wasn't bothered about keeping the peace when my relative died....

Honestly, would you think it was ok to make a comment like that with any other group in it, golden?

Imagine it.

it is just black people being typical black people - childish, bitchy, blah'

'it's just gay people being typical gay people - childish, bitchy'.

So why is it ok to say that about women?

I'm with TSC. I know some amazing, lovely women and I am very lucky - but I don't spend half my life going on about how women are all horrible so that might possibly have helped.

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:43:38

Well considering that those who have excellent friends have described themselves as 'lucky'...

Surely if good female friends were the norm and those of us without that experience are the problem, it would have nothing to do with luck.

minouminou Tue 26-Feb-13 13:44:35

But it sounds like OP has done the right things - made an effort, been rebuffed X number of times, then has backed off and decided to remain civil.

The CS-chum seems a bit attention-seeking, especially if she's told mutual friend about the lack of well-wishes from OP.

Is there anything that you might have fallen out over? Anything you can pinpoint, OP?

Good female friends are the norm.

Excellent female friends - that's luck. IMO.

perceptionreality Tue 26-Feb-13 13:45:04

'If the common denominator in all your failed relationships with females is you the erm, maybe you need to look a little closer to home fr the problem.'

The OP hasn't said she falls out with all her female friends - so it's unfair to suggest this must be her fault. I would suggest in a group of 7 women it's impossible for everyone to be close friends.

MannishBoy Tue 26-Feb-13 13:45:58

OP, this is why I avoid "friends" altogether. Some people just can't help picking and choosing when to act like real friends and when not to.

Ignore her and arsey other one.

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:46:12

I think that comment was directed at me, perception.

everlong Tue 26-Feb-13 13:46:48

OP how long have you known the friend having the baby? Has she always been off with you? Who is newer to the group?

The fact she didn't contact you when your relative died and that she never comments back to you on Facebook is something that I would take personally if I'm honest. She sounds like she has a beef with you for something.

AnaisB Tue 26-Feb-13 13:47:38

Golden I don't know how to read the last bit of your post. Do you mean:

Try hanging out with just men - you'll see there isn't much difference?


Try hanging out with men - this is an actual suggestion to help you avoid difficult friendships?

Really hope it's the first.....

Goldenbear Tue 26-Feb-13 13:49:41

My response was an attempt to highlight the utter nonsense response of Folkgirl who seems to have written her whole gender off as a waste of space due to their inherent childishness!


Clearly I have no sense of humour.

Baroozer Tue 26-Feb-13 13:52:12

YANBU Why should you already have wished her good luck? She isn't having the Caesarean until Friday so it's a bit presumptuous of your friend to be telling you off now.

If you feel you should wish her luck to keep the peace, don't text her. Write it on her FB wall so that everyone can see. That way she can't 'lose' your text and claim it was never sent.

AnaisB Tue 26-Feb-13 13:53:14


TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 13:53:28

I didn't say they were childish! shock

I didn't say they were a waste of space.

I did say that female friendships can be political and that everyone seems to have an opinion they are too willing to share.

And in my experience, that's exactly what women are like. All female friendship groups; all female relatives; and all female work places can be a nightmare!

Yes, because it makes it so much better you're discriminating against an entire gender in this way and not that way, it makes it almost like it's not sexist at all. hmm

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 13:57:11

In all honesty I probably won't wish her good luck. I really can't be bothered to waste any more time trying to ingratiate myself to her. My other friend will have to just not like it.

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 13:57:54

Hey, can you argue about female friendships on another thread! This is about me, me, me wink

Sounds like you've made your decision - your other mate will probably come round. Hope so anyway. smile

TheSecondComing Tue 26-Feb-13 13:59:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goldenbear Tue 26-Feb-13 14:00:04

Or it wasn't funny as it is actually quite depressing that a woman agrees with this mysogynistic stereotyping.


everlong Tue 26-Feb-13 14:02:45

TSC the friend didn't offer any contact when the relative died, no card or nothing. Which is weird isn't it? Any friend of mine loses a relative and I would be there for them.

There may be a back story to this situation.

OP did you see my questions to you?

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 14:03:47

I know what you're saying TheSecondComing, and if it was just the bereavement alone then I wouldn't have any issue. I know that not everyone knows what to say in those kinds of situations. Although the other 6 from the group did text/phone me to see if I was ok, but even so....

Combined with the other things though it's just made me not want to bother. I don't generally do people-pleasing. That's not to say I won't buy her a card/present when she's had the baby though, but I'm not going to jump and wish her good luck just because she and the other friend say that I should.

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 14:04:40

Sorry everlong, just looked back through the thread. No, I don't know why she is the way she is. We've never been particularly close, and like I said she is a bit of a pampered princess who does seem to take offence at tiny things.

TheSecondComing Tue 26-Feb-13 14:05:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 14:06:58

Well whatever.

Sorry Tassimo!

I think that when you have a friendship group as large as yours, it's understandable you'll get along with some people more than others.

I think your other friend should have not got involved and that seems to be what is causing the problem rather than whether you phoned someone you aren't really friends with or not. It's none of her business, and even if she had wanted to remind you, she should have done so without the criticism.

If the other woman isn't someone you are really friends with, it might just be that she'd been asked who she'd heard from and just mentioned that she hadn't heard from you.

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 14:12:18

TSC, she didn't offer any sympathies at all, not even at the next meet up we had. She didn't even mention it. I didn't expect cards or anything like that but she didn't acknowledge anything at all had happened.

everlong Tue 26-Feb-13 14:15:16

You can't please everyone OP. And if the others in the group take her side in this then what can you do?

Re-evaluate your friendships, I suppose.

To thine own self be true wink

minouminou Tue 26-Feb-13 14:15:31

I think you're doing the right thing, OP.

I hope your friend gets over it - do you think this could be an ongoing source of conflict?

TroublesomeEx Tue 26-Feb-13 14:15:41

Tbh, on the scant information we have here, it sounds like the person who has a problem with this is the friend who is cross with you rather than the pregnant acquaintance.

If I hadn't acknowledged someone else's bereavement, and pretty much ignored them outside of the group environment, then I wouldn't expect a phone call re a CS. Even if I was a bit miffed (with a birth being such a big deal and all), I'd still be able to reflect on things and realise that sometimes that's just how things are.

OnwardBound Tue 26-Feb-13 14:40:55

I think your main problem here is your friend phoning you and sticking her beak in.

And she's the one who's cross? hmm

I would find it very odd and rude of a friend to call me and remonstrate about my lack of contact re another friend's CS. The only reason I could imagine would excuse this is if your acquaintance friend was having grave concerns about either her own or baby's health and wellbeing and other friend believed the reason you hadn't contacted her is because you tend to avoid friends when they are in a crisis and your lack of contact and support had really upset acquaintance friend.

But I don't think this is what you feel is happening OP.

So bossy friend should just butt out imo! Did you ask her, before she got in a huff, why she felt she had the right to question your lack of contact with mutual 'friend'?

Zalen Tue 26-Feb-13 15:25:56

I can see your point of view, I'm just wondering if the timing is a bit off. If you've only recently decided that if this other woman wants nothing to do with you then you'll respect that, then the first time that this really shows up is when you don't put a message of support on FB for her CS which you might previously have done, then it might just highlight the change a little more than if there had been a longer cooling off period with nothing particularly interesting happening, IYSWIM.

TassimoQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 18:19:08

I think I am more cross with the friend that moaned at me tbh. And in any case, I hadn't mentioned anything, and it's only Tuesday today, C-section is Friday. Perils of social networking I guess, that we are all expected to follow and comment on each others' every move

manticlimactic Tue 26-Feb-13 18:33:58

Just say you hadn't contacted her because you presumed she had changed her number as on the numerous occasions you had tried before you never had a reply. grin

Cherriesarelovely Tue 26-Feb-13 18:43:39

I agree with you OP. I think it is really strange of the other friend to stick her oar in! What on earth has it to do with her, unless the pregnant friend had complained to her? Even if she had been complaining about you I find it really odd that the other friend would actually go to the trouble of calling you to tell you off! Stick to your guns but if it comes up again definitely say that you are surprised this woman is bothered and mention her ignoring your recent loss.

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