To think that vanity sizing is getting ridiculous and to wonder where thin people buy their clothes?

(133 Posts)
LiegeAndLief Mon 25-Feb-13 19:44:09

10 years ago, I used to be a perfectly normal size 12. In recent years I seem to have shrunk to a 10. Last week I had to go down to an 8 in two separate shops - one of which I bought several things in a 10 from 6 months ago which fitted perfectly!

This is not a stealth boast as I am certainly not getting any smaller.

The thing that really got me is that both shops had nothing smaller than an 8, either in store or on-line. I'm a fairly average size and know plenty of people smaller than me. It just seemed utterly ridiculous that I was wearing the smallest size in the shop.

To be fair, in shops like New Look and H&M which seem to be aimed more towards a teenage market I am very much still a 10, verging on 12. But that just makes it worse as it really irritates me that I can't just be the same size everywhere!

squeakytoy Mon 25-Feb-13 19:45:24

my heart bleeds grin

SkinnybitchWannabe Mon 25-Feb-13 19:46:56

Oh you poor thing!! wink

3monkeys3 Mon 25-Feb-13 19:47:26

I am starting to find this too. I am a 12 and size 10 jeans were falling off me in gap the other day. I am definitely a 12!

CockyFox Mon 25-Feb-13 19:50:00

I have clothes ranging from an 8 to an 18 in my wardrobe, they all fit I'mone of these people who really doesn't care about size.
Tiny people buy their clothes from Hollister and the like - at least my teeny tiny SIL does.

itchychin Mon 25-Feb-13 19:51:27

Agree! Fat Face dress = size 6, H&M skinny cords = size 14

Foggles Mon 25-Feb-13 19:55:06

I now carry a tape measure with me as I can be various sizes in the same store on the same day.

I may have developed amazing morphing abilities that I am not aware of.

countrykitten Mon 25-Feb-13 19:56:22

Fat Face and White Stuff clothes are HUGE!!

natwebb79 Mon 25-Feb-13 19:57:05

I've started to think this too. I bought a 'size 8' dress the other day and it's baggy. I am NOT tiny. I used to struggle into a 10 a while back and I'm no smaller. When I look at photos of my mum in the 80s when she was a 'size10' she had a waist like a tooth pick. Her jeans wouldn't have gone past my ankles! grin

MrsLouisTheroux Mon 25-Feb-13 19:58:51

Fat face and white stuff don't go up to my size blush grin

GetOrf Mon 25-Feb-13 19:59:29

I agree - my gran had some clothes from the 70s, size 14 but they would be a 10 now.

Size 6 is not even that small is it. Everyone beopmans the size 0 trend but that is not that small is it - a UK 4. I am a size 8 and I am by no means skinny.

ChestyLeRoux Mon 25-Feb-13 19:59:40

New Look 9-15 range.I wear the 13 year olds trousers and the age 14-15 year old tops because of having big boobs.The best thing about it is a lot of the girls wear now is the same as the adults, but a lot cheaper.

FlatsInDagenham Mon 25-Feb-13 20:02:31

It doesn't matter in the slightest what arbitary number the manufacturer decides to put on its clothes.

Everyone owns clothes in wildly different sizes, which all fit.

I, for example, recently bought 2 dresses in TKMaxx. One in a 14, the other in a 20. Both fit. Both will be worn.

Plenty of shops to buy thin clothes in too.

Don't understand the beef really.

LiegeAndLief Mon 25-Feb-13 20:03:02

I don't really care what size I am, as I am still the same size iyswim! but I do a lot of my clothes shopping on line and it's really annoying to not know what size to order. I even tried looking at the size guide and measuring myself but that didn't work either.

Talkinpeace Mon 25-Feb-13 20:03:08

I've had to stop looking at clothes in some shops because their size 10 is way too big for me
and I'm lean not thin
its daft
who are they trying to kid

iwantanafternoonnap Mon 25-Feb-13 20:06:38

Oh this hasn't cheered me up at all as I am a size 16-18 now which means I am fatter than I thought! Eeeek!

LiegeAndLief Mon 25-Feb-13 20:07:31

Also it was less of a complaint, more a feeling of incredulity that someone as average (read: bit flabby) as me could be wearing the smallest size in the shop!

I still can't squeeze into anything less than a size 12 pair of jeans anywhere though. Terminally pear shaped grin

Noodled Mon 25-Feb-13 20:11:51

I have notice this too, I hate shopping and it makes it harder still! I am currently wearing GAP size 30 yet used to be a 30 a good stone ago.

AnnaRack Mon 25-Feb-13 20:13:57

Clothes are getting bigger in some shops but not all, so there is massive inconsistency. Seems to be shops aimed at older customers (eg Fat Face) have generously cut clothes while teen shops like H & m are cut small. Depends who their target market is and whether they want to flatter their customers that they are a 10 or 12 when in dact they are a 14 or 16. But it's infuriating because you just want something that FITS and the size number is pretty meaningless.

Foggles Mon 25-Feb-13 20:14:09

I've recently become a size 8 for the first time in my life.

Thank you Tesco smile

TunipTheVegedude Mon 25-Feb-13 20:15:34

I agree, and while I agree it is a First World Problem it annoys me because I don't have long to shop without kids (or am with small children) and they don't stay consistent and I would quite like a chance of getting the right size first time round rather than having to try on 3 of everything.

It is stupid that Gap size 10 jeans are way too big for me when I am definitely not skinny.

sydlexic Mon 25-Feb-13 20:17:57

I agree, when I was 21 I was a size 8 and I still am despite being 6 inches larger around the waist. I really am not thin but if I go down a size would struggle to buy clothes.

fedupofnamechanging Mon 25-Feb-13 20:18:14

I am a 12 in Fatface - I must be proper chunky, if everyone is saying that their clothes come up big!

KissingKittyKat Mon 25-Feb-13 20:19:01

I tried on a Gap size 4 skirt the other day and it was massive round the waist! I am slim, but hardly a stick insect! However I then tried on some of their size 6 jeans and couldn't get them over my bum!

The inconsistency is really annoying

GetOrf Mon 25-Feb-13 20:23:41

Marks and Spencers clothes are madness as well (in many ways not just sizing).

peppersaunt Mon 25-Feb-13 20:26:09

The reason Gap sizes are so large is that they're American sizes ( which are 2 sizes bigger than UK equivalents -e.g. Gap size 10 = UK size 14!)

Foggles Mon 25-Feb-13 20:26:28

They are trying to force me into their changing rooms.

I don't DO changing rooms.

They make me cry.

nenevomito Mon 25-Feb-13 20:29:20

Its not all at the lower end of the range. I'm a size 18. In the same shop I can be a 16 and 18 or a 20 depending on what it is and what the cut is. I think they've given up standard sizing and just stick what the heck they want on the lable and leave it to the customer to try things on.

whois Mon 25-Feb-13 20:32:14

Agree! Fat Face dress = size 6, H&M skinny cords = size 14

I worked in fat face many years ago and even then the sizes were mahosive.

So funny, meant to be an 'active lifestyle brand' and we had huge fat women waddling over the street from Evens into Fat Face cos out size 18 was actually more like a 20/22!

AnnaRack Mon 25-Feb-13 20:36:05

babyheave it would save us all a lot of trouble if the sizes actually meant something wouldn't it? Then you would just take 1or 2 thongs to try on instead of 5 or 6.

AnnaRack Mon 25-Feb-13 20:36:49

Things even! Gaah!

holidaysarenice Mon 25-Feb-13 20:40:12

Trousers from H and M - always too small - 3 sizes too small!

Everyone should know that!!

I'm back in kids sizes, not that it bothers me too much and the leg length fits better, but it looks a bit odd when a 50 year old woman drags her 8 year old into the teen girl store to try on trousers and I'm the one doing the trying on.
It's also hard to find clothes that don't make me look like mutton dressed as lamb, even if they fit doesn't mean I can wear them.

paddingtonbear1 Mon 25-Feb-13 20:43:08

Agree OP - I think I'm a 12, but I have stuff in my wardrobe ranging from size 8 - 14. I wear my Mum's old House of Fraser velvet jacket, which must be 30 odd years old (she hardly wore it) - size 14, but it's a tight fit!

LiegeAndLief Mon 25-Feb-13 20:44:02

grin grin Annarack

Although surely the same would apply to thongs. Now that really would be something you'd need to try on over your own underwear.

nenevomito Mon 25-Feb-13 20:44:48

I was about to say - I gave up the thongs after having the bairns. grin

nenevomito Mon 25-Feb-13 20:45:40

Its stopped me from buying things on line. I CBA to have to buy the same thing in a few sizes and then return the ones that don't fit.

YouTheCat Mon 25-Feb-13 20:45:47

I was pondering on this just this afternoon.

I'm massive a big girl but I fit a size 20 in M and S. I'm an 18 in TU sizes. But I'm a size 24/26 in bloody H and M. Not sure about other places as I'm not really into clothes.

SolidSnake Mon 25-Feb-13 20:46:31

I agree, the Size 8 clothes are hanging off me in M&S and BHS, however I am normally a Size 10!

Go in Topshop - they have size FOUR.

currentbuns Mon 25-Feb-13 20:46:57

This vanity sizing is particularly irritating when you're buying things online & therefore aren't able to take the five sizes into a changing room. Boden is very bad for this, their 'Size 8' is closer to a 12 at least.

FrillyMilly Mon 25-Feb-13 20:48:02

I am a size 12 and have noticed this. I am wearing size 10 work trousers from next and have been on a diet/exercise kick and they are starting to get too big. There is no way I'm an 8. I wasn't an 8 10 years ago when I was 2 stone less than I am now (and pre DC). Can't they all get together and come up with standard sizing.

LaQueen Mon 25-Feb-13 20:50:15

Tis insane.

15 years ago, I weighed roughly 9.5 stone, and was a size 12.

Today, I weigh 1.5 stone heavier, and I'm still a size 12.

But, I have stuff in my wardrobe from a size 10 - 16...

YouTheCat Mon 25-Feb-13 20:51:40

I actually have some size 16 jeans from 20 years ago (pre kids). There is no way they are near today's 16s. I can't even get a leg in.

Svanhvitr Mon 25-Feb-13 20:52:19

Most expensive clothes shops don't go small enough for me, but luckily I'm poor and shop in places like H&M and Topshop, whose sizing is less " generous"... smile

ClimbingPenguin Mon 25-Feb-13 20:55:25

This is very annoying as it means there are loads of shops I can't buy stuff from now. I'm at the small end mostly because I am short.

The shops that vanity size forget to actually stock the old size 8's.

SolidSnake Mon 25-Feb-13 20:55:45

Svanhvitr Topshop is poor? shock

Svanhvitr Mon 25-Feb-13 20:57:33

I was comparing it to places like Whistles SolidSnake. And I guess poor was an exaggeration too...

kaumana Mon 25-Feb-13 21:02:51

20 years ago I was 9.2 stone and wore a size 12 trouser in Next. Today I weigh 9.5 and am a size 8 in trews there...

I like to go hunting for vintage clothes in charity shops/ ebay etc and have found that on the whole the sizing is 2 sizes smaller than now.

calmlychaotic Mon 25-Feb-13 21:06:24

Oh, I thought I was just getting thinner and my scales were broke.

AnnaRack Mon 25-Feb-13 21:09:35

grin

havingamadmoment Mon 25-Feb-13 21:11:05

I agree and its not just adult clothes. My children are pretty normal sized - they are bang in the middle of what is a healthy weight range and yet im always having to take clothes in around the waist. I just cant imagine why they make the waists so large. I say this not as a skinny little thing myself I am a size 16 but the childrens clothes are really annoying baggy (slightly jealous).

It's rubbish. I note the manufacturers no longer put the actual measurements in the garments. I have some clothes from some time ago bearing the legend "St Michael, size 12, waist 26 inches"

Foggles Mon 25-Feb-13 21:17:56

That's right Travel I think a size 10 used to be 24 inch waist.

I think my thigh is about that now.

catzcream Mon 25-Feb-13 21:21:07

Karen millen is better than most at retaining fitted tailoring. And ted baker. I find some of the stuff in Zara works too, topshop are alos pretty good. Don't even bother with m & s anymore. Their sizes have gotten ridiculously big.

The good news about vanity sizing is I cannot shop online much (great for me) and since a lot of stores have such weird sizing, I shop less overall. Yay!

MagratOfStolat Mon 25-Feb-13 21:22:59

I'm a 14. I've worked hard to be a 14, and I'm still working to get down to a ten for my wedding day in three years time.

In Primark I tried on a 14 and it was flippin' humungous on me. I was so chuffed with myself. In New Look I tried on a 14 and could barely get the zip up. Ditto 16. I had to go for a flamin' 18 and my self-esteem shot through the floor. Not impressed.

YANBU. The phrase "one size fits most" is one I like the best. It's nice and simple.

LittleEdie Mon 25-Feb-13 21:25:02

Makes it difficult to order online too!

BinksToEnlightenment Mon 25-Feb-13 21:27:01

Oh you are so not wrong with this!

I literally can't shop in some places because of vanity sizing. It's really annoying.

And then you go somewhere that actually does make clothes the right size and you end up in the changing room looking like a sausage fighting its way out of a napkin.

RedToothBrush Mon 25-Feb-13 21:38:40

sizes.darkgreener.com/

Clothing size comparison app

BinksToEnlightenment Mon 25-Feb-13 21:54:45

Thank you Redtooth! I found that website ages ago through the guardian and then I could never remember what it was called again.

I can't seem to work it on my phone though.

Iteotwawki Mon 25-Feb-13 22:04:21

I have a size 12 skirt in my wardrobe from M&S 10 years ago, currently dieting back to when I was that size. I'm in 12-14 clothes currently and I reckon by today's sizing that skirt would be a loose fitting 10 or a tighter 8.

I'm not small by any means (BMI is 28) and by sizing 10y ago I should be an 18. Constantly amazed at having to get a 12-14 off the shelf.

SamuelWestsMistress Mon 25-Feb-13 22:19:42

I have to say I'm not as convinced by the vast variation in vanity sizing as some are. I mean, I know it still goes on but I have several items of clothing from around 15+ years ago which were a size 14 then and fitted me as a size 14 and I'm a size 14 now and they still fit as a size 14, and all the other size 14s I have seem to fit the same too! (I went up to an 18 in this time.)

Its a real pain in the arse. I have to buy childrens clothes quite often or use the petite ranges where they go down for a 4. Except the trousers are too short. hmm Im only 5ft 2 !

Theicingontop Mon 25-Feb-13 22:26:28

This vanity sizing is clearly aimed at me, as a size sixteen who can wear a size 12 dress and feel properly, undeservingly chuffed about it grin

I suppose it works?

My mum used to be a 10 years and years ago. I fit into one of her dresses perfectly and I usually have to buy a 4. Although a 6 in Karen Millen is smallish.

sue52 Mon 25-Feb-13 22:29:39

I have some size 10 clothes from the 70s. Size 4-6 DD fits them perfectly.

Even that app doesnt go down small enough for my measurements.

sue52 Do you think your DD would like to share clothes with me wink ? She sounds about my size. How old is she ? Will i be kitted out in cartoon stuff or is she teenagery ?

LessMissAbs Mon 25-Feb-13 22:33:54

I had to send back a mail order size 8 jacket recently, although I'm a size 10. It was more like a maternity outfit. I eventually managed to track down a size 6, but it still gapes. Then I went out and bought a size 12 from Karen Millan the same week! Its crazy.

Foggles Mon 25-Feb-13 22:35:54

It's a bit depressing really, isn't it?

Can we go back to being ignorant about the vanity sizing? grin

midastouch Mon 25-Feb-13 22:39:58

I quite like it actually, after 2 babies i can still fit in size 8 sometimes 6 if i go to next or M&S grin They should be a standard size though it makes it impossible to buy things online as you never know what size to buy. I think the same applies to a lot of kids clothes too

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Mon 25-Feb-13 22:42:17

whoisMon 25-Feb-13 20:32:14

I worked in fat face many years ago and even then the sizes were mahosive

So funny, meant to be an 'active lifestyle brand' and we had huge fat women waddling over the street from Evens into Fat Face cos out size 18 was actually more like a 20/22!

Do you actually think this is an acceptable way to talk about other women? Really?

thenightsky Mon 25-Feb-13 22:43:31

It makes online shopping impossible. I've given up now as I get so sick of sending everything back. Now I just go to a Real Shop and take 3 of each item into the changing room.

Arisbottle Mon 25-Feb-13 22:45:31

I am so pleased that you were also shocked at that post Myhead, I thought it was just me.

ILikeBirds Mon 25-Feb-13 22:50:59

"I have to say I'm not as convinced by the vast variation in vanity sizing as some are."

Same here

I have some Diesel and FCUK jeans that I bought in 1998, I still wear them and they still fit. If I try jeans on today I still go for the same size and they still fit.

carabos Mon 25-Feb-13 22:55:11

I don't find that I have a wide range of sizes in my wardrobe. Everything is 8 or 10, xs or s. I have a couple of things that I've had for donkey's years which act as a sort of benchmark and don't fit any differently today than they did 20 years ago.

I would say though, that I think there is more variation in bottoms than tops. My only size 10 things are trousers - I'm not pear- shaped, but the cut and fit of trousers does seem to vary more widely.

chickydoo Mon 25-Feb-13 22:57:04

Sorry not read all the posts
My wedding dress was a 12 in the 90's
I am now exactly the same weight, maybe a bit more toned though.
A 12 is huge on me these days, I now
buy a size 8, and even a 6 in some places...Boden, Next.
My wedding dress still fits the same as it always did. It is not me who has changed size!!! Very odd

sue52 Mon 25-Feb-13 22:58:19

Somebodysomewhere I kept loads of stuff from Biba and when I had a bit more money I bought the odd bit of designer, Bill Gibb, Halston, Thea Porter and the like. I fear you would to fight DD to the death to get your hands on it though.

Haberdashery Mon 25-Feb-13 23:02:52

Thirty years ago, I was a size 10 or perhaps a tiny bit smaller (but not enough smaller to have to seek out a size 8). I was 14. Twenty years ago I was a very small size 8. I was 24 and a bit larger than I had been at 14, unsurprisingly. Ten years ago I was a perfect size 8 and a little larger than I had been at either 14 or 24.

I am now a size 8 and at least 8 inches larger round the waist than I was thirty years ago when I was a size 10.

Happymum22 Tue 26-Feb-13 00:19:00

Yes, I'd say I am a size 12-14 and 5ft 8 but my recent purchases range from size 8-14 depending on the shop or style.
It is crazy! But very flattering when you're a size 8 ;)

MikeOxardAndWellard Tue 26-Feb-13 00:30:05

Yanbu. 10years ago I was a size 10. 23/24" waist. I am now several stone and many inches larger and yet I am a size 8.

Startail Tue 26-Feb-13 00:32:50

Sizes do seem suddenly to have gone barmy,
I'm a 14/16 top 16 bottom in a sane world.

So why can I get in a size 12 Seasalt top and not do up a size 18 gilet in H&M?

ZebraOwl Tue 26-Feb-13 01:53:32

YANBU!

I end up with lots of kidswear: splendid for avoiding VAT, rubbish for avoiding sequins/bows/other-things-that-scream-^this is meant for a small child^ & a nightmare for bottom half as I've long legs for someone of 5'4" so to be the right length stuff's too big at the waist, though The Magic Waist Elastic is my friend.

Beyond the childrenswear section of the clothing market, things are a bit limited. Places aimed for teens have sizes that come up smaller, so H&M, New Look, Warehouse & Top-Shop. I have some XS cardies from Zara that are a nice fit. I often layer a tshirt over a plain long-sleeved top & have taken to getting the latter from UniQlo as they're meant to be stretchy-fitted so I just wear the XS without it being stretchy (as it were).

It is really annoying, frankly. Plus some shop assistants are really snarky-hostile towards/about you: I ended up getting tops from Gap Kids that were too big for me because the assistant (ignoring my explanation that I really WAS doing just fine) insisted that was definitely the size I needed; and I had an assistant in Coast insist the skirt that was perilously close to sliding off my hips & bodice that was perching on my hips at its narrowest point MUST fit me because they fitted her and I was definitely not thinner than her. Uhhuh hmm

To me it is somewhat troubling that it is seemingly now much easier to buy clothes on the high street if you are obese than if you are at the low end of the healthy weight range. I certainly don't think people who're overweight or obese shouldn't be able to buy clothes on the high street, so we are completely clear; but it shouldn't be to the exclusion of smaller people & the current vanity sizing trend is part of the culture of normalising/refusing to acknowledge obesity, which is dangerous. I know there are lots of people who know fine well that they are overweight/obese whatever the label in their clothes says, but I also know plenty of people who assert they're fine because they wear size whatever...

Incidentally, one of the vanity-sizing-related things that really irks me is the whole business about "Marilyn Monroe was a size 16" is that she'd not be now because of the crazy vanity sizing business. She'd have massive issues finding clothes because of her incredible hourglass shape (22-23" waist!) but would be rootling through the 8s & 10s. Gah.

GetOrf Tue 26-Feb-13 07:22:33

It does make a nonsense of those silly articles who go on about slebs dieting perilously to size 0. It's an american 0 they're on about so a 4 in the UK - which by most reckonings would probably be about an old 6-8. So yes, very slim, but not ridiculously so.

Perhaps vanity sizing is borne out of the understanding that people are generally bigger now than a generation ago - not fat, but bigger built, taller in general etc. So perrhaps the vanity sized 10 is seen as an equivalent of a size 10 from the 70s. <Clutches at straws>

BinksToEnlightenment Tue 26-Feb-13 08:00:44

It's the exclusion of people who are actually not that thin that does my head in.

According to that UK size calculation chart, I'm a size 4 to 10 depending on where I shop. (I assure you that I am absolutely nothing like a size 4). But most places will not stock anything under an 8.

And this isn't Asda. It's Next, Zara, normal high street fashion. They forgot about the little guys!

Ooh it does make me cross.

Getorf I certainly think we are generally less hourglass than we used to be - partly because we wear much less restrictive underwear!

KenDoddsDadsDog Tue 26-Feb-13 08:04:28

myhead was just scrolling down to post that as well. Disgusting way to speak about people.

I hate shopping in H&M. Which is a pain because I like a lot of their clothes (their jersey basics are fab). I'm a size 14-16 on the bottom (I'm 5'10") and I can NEVER get their trousers on. The one near me goes up to a 16 and I can't even get them over my arse, let alone do them up.

So a trip to H&M usually results in me crying and then buying some chips....I should have learnt by now really.

LaQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 09:11:49

Totally agree GOML - back in the day, when I was a student, I was a size 8 - and yes, I was slender, but by no means dangerously skinny. Still had boobs, and the tops of my thighs were a bit jiggly etc.

Thanks to better nutrition and medicines, we're bigger built nowadays, with bigger skeletons.

LaQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 09:17:33

I do think though, that for a worrying amount of teenage girls now, being a size 16/18 is normalised, thanks to certain slebs like Beth Ditto etc.

This is not a healthy weight to be - and if someone is already a size 16 by the time they're 16, then it doesn't bode well for their future health.

DD1 is nearly 10, and has an athletic frame, with solid bones, broad shoulders and long legs - she's going to have the build of a professional tennis player. I watch what she eats, because I can already see that she has inherited DH's tendency to easily gain weight.

We never talk about diets/being overweight in this house - but I do encourage talk about being a healthy weight, and being physically strong and active.

chibi Tue 26-Feb-13 09:21:44

i have the same measurements as i did when i was 20. i weigh more, but i am fitter and more muscular.

i wear the same size as i did then. i have clothing that dates back to that time, and it still fits. i wore a 12 then, and a 12 now in most places.

this whole thread is a bit 'my diamond shoes are too tight and giving me bunions'- you went to try on a size 8 and it swam on you, so you had to ask for a -4 which was still a bit loose, and you're not even thin etc etc etc

if you are wearing anything under an 8, unless you are severely height impaired (3ft7 maybe) or have truly eccentric proportions, then yes, actually, you are thin. by anyone's standards

chibi Tue 26-Feb-13 09:26:42

and LOL at the idea that teenage girls are fat because beth ditto normalised it and they now aspire to it or something

which celebrity fatman do you imagine young men are aping and aspiring to ve?

doctorhamster Tue 26-Feb-13 09:31:55

10 years ago I weighed 11 stone and was a size 16. I now weigh over 16 stone and am a size 18 in most shops (occasionally a 20). So I've put on over 5 stone over the years, but only one dress size hmm

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 09:32:08

clothes sizes should be standardized to BMI.

Like a 12 should fit and average person with BMI of 22.

Then 10s would fit people with a BMI of about 20 and size 14 would be for people on around BMI 24 etc etc.

LaQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 09:33:03

Chibi back in the day, I was 5 ft 7, and a size 8...and no, actually, I wasn't thin. Looking at photos, I have boobs, and a bum and my thighs had a bit of a wobble, there's no denying it.

I didn't actually say that teenage girls aspire to be overweight like Beth Ditto. What I actually said is that being overweight, is now more normalised than it was 15-20 years ago.

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 09:39:44

Given that stressing about your weight, being picked on etc. are all highly correlated with gaining even more weight, I don't see that a little normalization and a few role models are actually such a bad thing.

I would rather teenage girls could think about losing weight in terms of being more healthy rather than because everyone hates a fatty. Because the first thing might succeed and the second seriously wont.

BinksToEnlightenment Tue 26-Feb-13 09:40:32

I'm not saying I'm not slim. I'm saying but there isn't a 4.

Why the heck would there be a 4? That's a size zero. I'm slim but there's no way I should be leaving a shop because they don't stock a 4.

Call these sizes whatever number you like, I just want one allocated to my size.

chibi Tue 26-Feb-13 09:41:55

really, cos i am 5'7, and a size 12, and nothing wobbles.

if you weren't thin at that height and size, i guess i must be clinically obese? funny, i have pretty well defined musculature for a fatty. one of life's mysteries i guess

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 09:42:39

What is your BMI binks?

BinksToEnlightenment Tue 26-Feb-13 09:48:54

It's about 19.5. Definitely not underweight.

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 09:51:47

Then when I rule the world you will be a size 8 (covering BMI from 18-20).

And I agree that you should be able to find clothes in stores that fit you...clearly anyone in the 'normal' range of BMI should.

I know BMI isn't all that but when people are saying that they can't be thin because they have wobbly bits I think it is the best way to make sure people with serious body issues aren't biasing the discussion.

ILikeBirds Tue 26-Feb-13 09:55:45

My bmi is 25.5, I wear a size 10. I'm not sure your brave new world I'd going to work for me

BinksToEnlightenment Tue 26-Feb-13 10:02:37

I eagerly await your ruling of the world! grin

I get that it isn't a problem on par with some others. But it is a nuisance. Imagine if they changed shoe sizes up and stopped selling the smaller ones. Or having to try on four different size shoes because the labeling was so inconsistent.

LaQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 10:06:41

You seem extremely touchy Chibi ...why would that be?

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 10:08:07

The ICBINEG system looks to be about 1 dress size larger than current norms (if you can define the current mess with a norm...So I guess if you are a 10 now you would be a 12...clearly BMI doesn't tell the whole story...I am BMI 24 and currently a size 12 (which used to be more like 14). So if you have a higher BMI and smaller size than me then you must be a lot taller / not have my post childbearing enormonorks....

chibi Tue 26-Feb-13 10:08:31

lequeen probably because i am too fat to live, and the world will only give me the likes of beth ditto to validate my larditude

chibi Tue 26-Feb-13 10:10:21

i have a bmi of 22 and am a size 12, i think this fits your system, ICBINEG

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Tue 26-Feb-13 10:12:42

Pre baby I was a 4-6. I had some suits that were 10 years old top shop, size 6 fitted perfectly. Their current size 6 was massive and baggy. Now I'd not shrunk my old suits so the only explanation is that they'd increased the sizes.

BinksToEnlightenment Tue 26-Feb-13 10:12:59

The ICBINEG system is such a great name too.

ILikeBirds Tue 26-Feb-13 10:15:04

i'm 5 foot 4. 26" waist

I don't get the logic of basing it on a ratio when you can base clothes size on a direct measurement. If there's variation now it's because there's variations in the measurements allocated to a clothing size not because using measurements is wrong

Princesspond Tue 26-Feb-13 10:19:04

I haven't read all the posts so someone may have linked this before, it's a handy tool you put in your measurements and it tells you your size in several different shops. It's quite handy when buying something on eBay for example and you are unsure of the shop's sizing. Personally I'm overjoyed when I fit an 8 even if it is vanity sizing!

sizes.darkgreener.com/

ATJabberwocky Tue 26-Feb-13 10:19:38

I agree, I'm tired of the vanity sizing, whilst it may make people decide to buy something because it's a size 6 and the number makes them feel slimmer than if it was a size 12-14, I would like to see some consistency between shops and sizing, and then instead of picking up a 6 in one shop and a 14 in another I would be able to get the same size.

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 10:20:06

It would be good though, wouldn't it if sizes 8, 10, 12 and 14, covered average people with BMI in the range 18.5 to 25. and then 16 and 18 covered those in the overweight range of BMI, 25-30 and 20 onwards matched with BMI of obese and onwards. The underweight category could be covered by 6 and 4.

Then everything would be standardized and the same size would be the same everywhere and we wouldn't be suffering grade inflation....

I'll say it again that BMI isn't the be all and end all but I think most people would agree that size 8 - 14 used to cover the thinish to mildly chubby range of normal body shapes and 16 upwards used to mean overweight.

Then a normal clothing range possibly covered 6 to 16 and caught most people....

ILikeBirds Tue 26-Feb-13 10:24:13

But just using BMi just introduces anomalies. 24" waist 8, 26" 10, 28" 12 works just as well and is what curent sizing based on. The problem is that manufacturers aren't following these measurements, not that the measurements are wrong.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 26-Feb-13 10:27:22

That wouldn't work, because BMI takes height into account, so my friend who is 6ft and a size 14 is thinner than me, and probably has a lower BMI, but I'm a size 10.

Therefore, there will be some short people who are overweight at a Size 12 and some tall people who are underweight at that size

ppeatfruit Tue 26-Feb-13 10:31:17

yes I agree getorf

choceyes Tue 26-Feb-13 10:39:47

I find Topshop to be pretty true to size, especially their jeans. I have size 8 jeans from about 10 years ago and they still fit me and I still fit into their size 8 jeans. But I think their tops are a bit bigger now than they used to be, but it could be because of the changing fashions too, like in the 90s the trend was for more fitted tops and recently tops are more volumious in style, so you can get away with a size smaller than you are.

Also H&M is usually true to size I'd say. I only ever shop in these shops and occassionally in New Look and Primark and I go for a size 8 pretty much everywhere, apart from Primark which is sometimes a size 6, depending on the type of clothing.

Next sizing is big and I am a size 6 in there. Haven't ever tried on M&S or supermarket clothing, so not a clue about their sizing. Although have a pair of size 8 PJs from ASDA that my MIL bought me and they are massive.

Locketjuice Tue 26-Feb-13 10:42:55

I'm generally the same size wherever I shop? H&M, river island, new look, primark I go between a 6-10 depending on material and the fit I want? smile

StuntGirl Tue 26-Feb-13 10:43:50

Are you joking, H&M sizes are bloody teeny!

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Tue 26-Feb-13 10:44:30

I bought 2 pairs of jeans in dp's. tried 1 pair on, size 10 massive 8 perfect. Picked up another colour in an 8, same style same everything bar colour. Couldn't even get the 2nd pair over my thighs I'd have needed a 12!
They were the same!!!!!

choceyes Tue 26-Feb-13 11:35:44

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter - thats happened to me in New Look. Tried on jeans and the black ones in size 8 were perfect skinny fit, tight and how it should be. Same style in maroon, were Ok around the waist but baggy everywhere else. Why why why???

EmpressMaud Tue 26-Feb-13 11:38:09

Somebody mentioned Fat Face. I'm a size 6 skirt in there (8 usually anywhere), I wasn't a size 6 even as a teenager!

carabos Tue 26-Feb-13 11:46:39

Where are you guys taking your measurements? I am 5ft 4in weigh 119 lb, BMI 20.4, bust 33in, waist 29 in, hips 37 in and I'm a size 8 99% of the time. All my clothes are an 8, a 10, S or XS.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid Tue 26-Feb-13 11:51:01

The worst culprit is Monsoon. I tried a size eight strapless dress on and it fell straight again and they didn't do sixes. The assistant just shrugged at me, and suggested a shift style dress.

I am slim but not emaciated. Stupid thing was I got very upset about it.

RedToothBrush Tue 26-Feb-13 12:29:47

I do agree about Monsoon. I worked there many light years ago. I had to wear their clothes. Nothing fitted. Their sizes are huge and have been for years. However they do, do size 6s in a limited number of ranges (not that they fit me either).

In general going shopping goes something like this:
Trousers/Jeans - if it fits on the waist, I can't do the zip up as it doesn't fit on the hips.
If it fits on the hips, it gaps on the waist.
Most of the time the waist is hanging down by my hips and the crotch is by my knees.
If they are standard length, I'm tripping over them.
If they are petite, they are too short. I'm a mighty 5' 2".

Dresses - if it fits on the bust, its doesn't fit on the shoulders and just hangs tent like elsewhere.
If it fits on the waist and hips (go figure why dresses are ok but trousers aren't) then I can't breathe or even get in the top half.
If its standard size, its 50 - 50 whether its too long (unless its a long dress, in which case, don't even bother trying it on!)
If its petite size, with arms then they are made for teenagers women with unnaturally short and thin arms (I am teeny and it shocks me)

If its low cut - I either look like a prostitute or fall out.
If its high cut - its too tight.

And don't even get me started on bras. I want to spray paint the windows of half the high street saying "28 and 30 backs are not for freaks" and "the average cup size is now above a D you muppets".

You get all this utter shite from the internet and media that 'real women' are size 0s and have curves. Well, erm... wtf am I then?

If a shop does my size, its either - horrendously expensive or aimed at teenagers. Since I'm in my mid thirties, I don't want to dress younger than I am as it does affect the way people treat me, so finding stuff thats ok, can be even harder.

And then you get people saying, "Ohhh I wish I was your size, then I'd be able to find nice clothes that fit me, you are so lucky." And you have to smile politely and resist the urge to throttle them and scream "But high street clothes don't fit ANYONE but mannequins well and thats only cos they pin the damn clothes on them".

(Incidently since people are talking about not being able to even consider online shopping on this thread, ASOS size on the small side and are an option if you are struggling on the high street if you are a teeny person, and their petite range actually is petite woman rather than child sized).

Its depressing and frustrating in the extreme.

LaQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 17:05:56

"lequeen probably because i am too fat to live, and the world will only give me the likes of beth ditto to validate my larditude"

Chibi but I thought you said you were a toned size 12, with nary a wobble? Sounds good to me smile

LaQueen Tue 26-Feb-13 17:09:32

Oh Fat Face just do comedy sizing...have a couple of tops from there, which are size 10s - yet, they're a bit big on the shoulders hmm

I suspect it's because Fat Face target 30 & 40 something Mums, who want to feel comfy, but don't want to admit they've never lost that excess 20lbs since the birth of their last baby (5 years ago).

chibi Tue 26-Feb-13 17:12:02

i want to keep on sparring but my heart isn't in it. capricious tart that i am, i found something else in the internet to be cross about smile

til we meet again lequeen i jiggle my size 12 incipient bingowings at you with gay abandon wink

Springdiva Tue 26-Feb-13 17:12:06

I always bought size 12 trousers from M&S.

I bought them when I was 9.5st many years ago and I buy them at 11 stone now hmm - in fact the last pair were too loose unless newly washed.

MechanicalTheatre Tue 26-Feb-13 17:19:11

I am 5ft1 and 7 and a half stone, so, yes, very petite. I am not, however, freakishly thin, I have boobs and a bum and thighs.

I have a blazer that is a size 4 that is TOO BIG ACROSS THE SHOULDERS.

And yes, it is a nightmare trying to buy anything that fits, especially in cheap shops like Primark. Everything hangs off me, I hate it.

I'm a mixed size I need accommodate large norks 32 GG anyone so have to buy bigger but now lost loads weight swamp everywhere ( work in progress still ) so while your sorting out sizes can you also sort out tops that accommodate boobd without either going tarty or baggy fitting be nice wink

I am a 12 bottoms in new look and Primark but notice can do a 10 up in next but am heavier than I was pre kids ( longtime ago ) and yet almost same size in jeans

JenaiMorris Tue 26-Feb-13 18:53:46

I don't think anyone has mentioned dressipi yet, have they?

You enter your height, weight, shape and the sizes and brands of some clothes you know already fit and it will let you know what size you are across the brands. Seems pretty accurate, although I've not ordered anything online through it.

Some of the style recommendations made me cry though.

ZebraOwl Tue 26-Feb-13 21:18:48

choceyes & Cantbelieveitsnotbutter

I have been told that apparently lots of chains end up with that kind of variation because factories get told "you must get X many pairs of size Y jeans from Z amount of material" but Z is not a constant, so the cut has to be varied to meet the order specs: crazy!

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