to ask why you would put your 'hungry baby' on a diet?

(95 Posts)
ICBINEG Mon 25-Feb-13 16:47:03

I don't understand the logic...please help me out.

Hungry baby milk has the same calories per 100 grams as normal, but takes longer to digest....or in other words hungry baby formula is a diet food....it makes the baby feel full longer and hence reduces their daily calorie intake, by reducing the number of feeds.

Similarly with introducing solids. Mashed potato or whatever has about the same calories per 100g but they are almost impossible to digest. Again the baby feels full longer but gets less calories in a day because they will ask for less feeds.

So would you respond to thinking your baby is hungry by:
a) feeding them more often so they get more calories
b) feeding them diet food, so they get less calories

?

OHforDUCKScake Mon 25-Feb-13 16:53:03

Ive never heard good things about HBM tbh, Id never have used it.

I bf, and when the baby went through growth spurts he'd feed up to every 20 mins in the day and not much better at night. I ordered my breasts to make hungry baby milk, to no avail.

My point is, if the babys hungry you feed him/her more often.

However, I have little/no knowledge of ff.

ICBINEG Mon 25-Feb-13 16:55:50

I think formula companies are just being their usual gittish selves but the whole weaning early because they are hungry thing is odd....there is a growth spurt at 4 months that seems to trigger a lot of people around here to put their baby on the mashed potato diet....many of them then express surprise that their little ones are losing weight all of a sudden....yeah well they will....

IneedAgoldenNickname Mon 25-Feb-13 16:55:59

I've never heard good things about hbm either, but like ducks BF mine wherever they were hungry, which felt like always at times.

SecretNutellaFix Mon 25-Feb-13 17:10:04

Maybe because otherwise they would be drinking litres of formula?

I do think that they disrupt "normal" feeding patterns, but if the alternative is for an infant to be drinking 6 8-ounce bottles a day at three weeks, then it serves a purpose.

Only anecdotal, but that was when my mother stuck me on hungry baby formula because I was draining my bottle in minutes and still hungry.

I was fed every 2-3 hours.

I used hungry milk for ds from about 14 weeks although he never actually took any less milk in his bottles and never went much longer between feeds - he did seem more settled between feeds though so I felt it was worthwhile using it.

seeker Mon 25-Feb-13 17:18:01

"Maybe because otherwise they would be drinking litres of formula?

I do think that they disrupt "normal" feeding patterns, but if the alternative is for an infant to be drinking 6 8-ounce bottles a day at three weeks, then it serves a purpose."

Why shouldn't a baby have that much milk? Genuine question- mine were bf. but if a bf baby is hungry you give it more milk- why is it difference for formula fed?

SecretNutellaFix Mon 25-Feb-13 17:25:16

How distended would their tummies become?

We all know that people who eat significantly larger portions have significantly larger appetites, and it's a vicious circle.

Especially if the child then gets rewarded with food, and encouraged to eat everything on their plate.

I know it sounds as though I have issues regarding the way I was fed as a baby and I do. I am now struggling to get my mother and sister to understand so the same mistakes aren't made with my nephew.

It is only as I have begun controlling my food intake that I see the damage done by overfeeding.

shellshock7 Mon 25-Feb-13 17:26:43

seeker I don't know but that was GP advice, too much liquid is dangerous? DS went on HBF to delay weaning as he was having 'too much' formula at 12 weeks, when I switched from BF for a few reasons..one of which being he couldn't get it down him quick enough so would scream unless I expressed and gave it him in a bottle...he defo was a very hungry baby grin

monkeysbignuts Mon 25-Feb-13 17:30:16

i used it with my second baby. i have breast fed all 3 kids but my second i just couldn't keep up with. at 12 weeks she was needing feeds every 2 hours day and night. i started 1 bottle at bed time of standard milk, by 15 weeks she was draining a 9oz bottle before bed! i swapped to hungry baby to delay weaning while still managing to do the rest breast feeds.
we got to 20 weeks and i started weaning her. when she was 6 months we started swapping boob for bottles and just standard baby milk. she would drink 3 7oz bottles and have 3 meals a day. she really was a big hungry baby and is tall and slender now she's 3.
all babies are different.
my third baby wakes every 2 hours for milk at night. thankfully if he has formula he manages 4/5 hours.

I brought this up with a friend on FB recently as she was weaning her 12 week old because she 'hungry' and had been on HBM since birth. She posted saying that someone (a doctor I think) should go back to medical school as he doesn't know anything and she knows her baby best.

I tried to offer the studies and told her about the same amount of calories and being harder to digest and she should try just giving more normal milk.

She went mental, started posting bitchy posts about me on FB and getting her friends to join in and blocked me! shock

shellshock7 Mon 25-Feb-13 17:34:02

Btw I never switched fully to HBF, for the reasons stated by ICBINEG, we just gave him enough to cut down the quantity of milk he needed...he ended up with 3 of his bottles being HBF by the time we got to weaning smile

seeker Mon 25-Feb-13 17:37:57

So what happened before there was "hungry baby milk"?

Trazzletoes Mon 25-Feb-13 17:39:43

Both mine were mix fed (1 bottle a day but otherwise BF) but i would imagine that if a ff baby was drinking that much milk all the time it would become mind- blowingly expensive for the parents to as well.

shellshock7 Mon 25-Feb-13 17:39:51

I honestly thought seeker what would I have done with DS before expressing/bottles etc was invented? He would just scream and scream it was horrible....I guess he would have eventually drank as he got to starving point, but luckily I never had to take it that far smile

hm32 Mon 25-Feb-13 17:40:43

I weaned at 20 weeks - food in addition to milk, not instead of. Didn't cut down the milk feeds at all, and certainly didn't slow the weight gain. What it did, was normalize the bowel movements so DC happier and not constantly constipated. I bf btw.

Trazzletoes Mon 25-Feb-13 17:40:44

seeker they just weaned earlier, didn't they? My DM says my DB was started on solids at 8 weeks shock

shellshock7 Mon 25-Feb-13 17:43:10

Ah yes * trazzle* of course! I was weaned at 12 weeks and my DH at 9 shock

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 25-Feb-13 17:51:29

Thank God for tits. Thanks to mine I did not have to worry about which type of Formula was most appropriate for my dc.

DrCoconut Mon 25-Feb-13 17:58:36

My mum and MIL have talked about babies being on solids before leaving the maternity hospital. Apparently if they weighed 10lb or more they were considered too big for "just milk", especially BM, and automatically given rusk or even mashed potato in a bottle with milk, the teats were poked with a knitting needle to make the holes big enough sad They still don't really see anything wrong with it. After all, their kids grew up fine in the 60's and 70's! (though I was a tiddler at 7lb something and was weaned from 12 weeks not birth). I do wonder how many adults have gut issues as a result of ridiculously early weaning.

seeker Mon 25-Feb-13 17:59:25

There wasn't hungry baby milk when my dd was a baby, and she's 17. 4-6 months was the weaning advice then- I weaned her at 6 months.

PolkadotCircus Mon 25-Feb-13 18:00:48

To answer what they did before they cut a hole in the teat and put raw egg and rusk in!

Well that's what my mum did very early on with me so kinda think hungry baby milk could be seen as an improvement.

seeker I don't know. I FF and when DS is hungry I feed him. I take little notice of time, if he's hungry then he's hungry.

PolkadotCircus Mon 25-Feb-13 18:01:41

I was one of those babies,got the constitution of an ox!grin

SecretNutellaFix Mon 25-Feb-13 18:03:20

Seeker- they were weaned from a stupidly early age.

Bogeyface Mon 25-Feb-13 18:04:51

I had to put DS1 on hungry baby milk on the advice of the HV as he was so hungry he was draining a bottle, screaming for more, draining that and then throwing up. HBM meant that he was actually keeping more of the calories as he wasnt screaming for more and then over feeding.

That said, I do know of it being used purely in order to get a baby to sleep through the night hmm

Bogeyface Mon 25-Feb-13 18:06:04

Seeker yes there was. It was SMA white cap, as opposed to yellow cap which was standard milk. DS is now 22 and he had it.

ChoudeBruxelles Mon 25-Feb-13 18:17:25

Cos your baby is drinking 9oz milk every two hours and you can hear it sloshing around inside them - like my ds at 13 weeks. Switched to hungry baby formula and then weaned at 17 weeks. He was a very big baby and is still a very tall/broad nearly 7 year old

ICBINEG Mon 25-Feb-13 19:08:56

bogey thats odd that is...I mean the normal milk should hit the spot faster than the hungry baby stuff as essentially normal milk is high GI and hungry baby milk is lower GI (and potato is sub zero GI).

But there is always one smile

I guess given they have different ingredients one could trigger voming and the other not so much....

I think the way to avoid the distended stomach thing must be little and often....

Ahh well it seems I am not totally off base regarding this not being the most logical parenting decision...unless you are doing it to get more sleep...in which case it is very logical and I would imagine very effective.

hazleweatherfield Mon 25-Feb-13 19:12:17

ICBINEG, every time I see a post in some way slagging off the big bad baby poisoning formula companies, you are the OP.

Okay, we get it, you don't like formula, now give it a sodding rest, would you?

PeneloPeePitstop Mon 25-Feb-13 19:13:17

My boys necked 9oz bottles 10 times a day, even on HBM.

ICBINEG Mon 25-Feb-13 19:14:26

hazel what about the potato? I hate the potato too! Please don't leave the potato out of this....

ICBINEG Mon 25-Feb-13 19:23:49

whoa pen that's incredible!

Tis hard to know how much my DD was having but feed number easily doubled during spurts....actually I think she didn't really have much in spite of being 98% centile throughout.

goldenlula Mon 25-Feb-13 19:28:00

There was a form of hungry baby milk when my mum had my brother 40 years ago I believe. There was certainly hungry baby milk 17 years ago as I was a pharmacy assistant and both sma and cow and gate had 2 versions.

I have never heard of anyone starting weaning with potato btw

PeneloPeePitstop Mon 25-Feb-13 19:32:01

You'd think they'd be obese now but no, skinny as rakes at 9 and 7. DD fed like a bird, still does.

goldenlula Mon 25-Feb-13 19:34:53

I should add, ds1 never went on hungry baby milk, ds2 did as he was a hungrier baby and like his big brother, the more milk he drank the sicker he was so I used the hungrier milk so he wasn't feeding every hour and hen constantly being sick, with the hungry baby milk he would go 3 maybe 4 hours and then he would be sick for the first hour and then have a break from it. Dd didn't have hungry baby milk, but then she was never a huge milk drinker and I was always being told I should force feed her more bottles!

drivingmisspotty Mon 25-Feb-13 19:38:49

Interesting way of looking at it OP, never thought of HBF as diet food before.

But doesn't breastmilk change too? So the milk your body produces for a 6 month old is different/richer than for a 4wk old? Like hungry baby breastmilk?! Or not is that just a myth I heard?

noblegiraffe Mon 25-Feb-13 19:39:55

I know they say you can't over feed a bf baby. Does that mean that you can over feed a formula fed baby, and if you don't switch to hungry baby stuff you might over feed them and end up with an obese baby?

PeazlyPops Mon 25-Feb-13 19:41:39

Why do you care, OP?

Are you thinking of moving your baby onto hungry formula? If you give some more info about your baby's appetite, maybe we can help.

hmm

lola88 Mon 25-Feb-13 19:42:02

DS couldn't go on hungry baby because they don't do it lactose free but by 10 weeks he was on 9 6oz bottles a day, you could hear the milk in his tummy and he throw it up at night because it would all just lay in his tummy. DS wasn't a hungry baby he was a greedy baby so i weaned him early which helped fill his tummy if i could have gave him hungry baby i would have.

sleepyhead Mon 25-Feb-13 19:47:42

All formula was "hungry baby milk" in the 60s and 70s. Hungry baby milk is just casein based formula, as opposed to whey based formula which the manufacturers developed as it was "closer to breastmilk".

Casein based formula takes longer to digest. I suspect that they kept making it because a lot of people would have wanted to maintain the traditional 4 hrs between feeds which might not have been possible with the newer formulation of milks.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 25-Feb-13 19:53:08

Yes breast milk changes as the baby gets older, so they don't just keep needing more and more.

Genuine question here, I am not having a pop.
Do any people who choose formula and have all these issues with it wish they had chosen to BF instead? Or do the pros still outweigh the cons?

Does seeker mean before that time as well though, when there wasn't even formula milk and the vast majority breastfed? I think before the 19th century, babies were weaned later than they are now, more like 9 months? Just dragged that from the depths of my memory, so not sure how true it is blush

Pickles101 Mon 25-Feb-13 19:58:55

DD has HBM on the recommendation of her HV. Made a huge difference, she is now a full, happy baby and not a wailing child with a sore tummy. I think it will benefit her long term too because she won't associate food with pain.

shellshock7 Mon 25-Feb-13 20:40:27

alibaba the issues with FF were tiny compared to those I/DS had with BF!

I used hungry baby milk at about 16 weeks - baby seemed constantly unsettled and hungry (clearly he was going through a growth spurt). I'd spent two days pinned to the sofa while he fed on and off. I felt drained, hadn't slept.
Step-dad went out and bought hungry milk. Baby slept for 7 hours! (so did I!). After that I used it every now and then when I wanted a break from breastfeeding, up until he was 6 months. Then I switched to follow-on because I had vouchers for it.

beatlegirl Mon 25-Feb-13 21:09:10

Alibaba, I didn't breastfeed because I found every single feed immensely painful. Not just sore nipples, but thhe letdown reflex itself actually cause me to sob in agony! I tried with all 3 of my babies. I honestly think that the 'every woman can breastfeed' thing is bollocks.

I think that because most women have some pain or discomfort, they think they know about the pain and judge those of us who can't manage it.

A 'lovely' colleague of mine sneered at me, apparently 'after 18 months you get used to it'. But honestly, I've seen other people breast feed. It truly isn't the same for everyone. If it hurt them the way it hurts me, they'd have given up too.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 25-Feb-13 21:18:28

I can understand if you've tried BF and found it painful, difficult and not had support to resolve anything, that FF and whatever associated difficulties would still come out on top.
beatle that was nasty of your colleague.

I guess I am more curious about people who chose before birth or very soon after that they don't want to BF but haven't had actual 'problems' as such.

AmberSocks Mon 25-Feb-13 21:22:13

one thing i dont understad is why,whe your baby wants more milk at like 3 or 4 months,some people decide to wean?surely there are more calories in milk than there are in fruit and veg?

AmberSocks Mon 25-Feb-13 21:24:24

alibaba there are lots of reasons and im sure that you know them really.

it might just not be the done thing in their little world,ad no one has challenged them(happened to me with ds1)

they may think its unnatural(obv rubbish but some people do,my own mum included)

they may have issues from their past such as abuse which makes them not want to try bf

havingamadmoment Mon 25-Feb-13 21:28:46

I always wondered what the difference was. I had a friend when dc1 was born who started giving her 4 week old baby hungry baby milk which seemed pretty odd to me. My first three were bottle fed but just had normal milk every few hours so never really needed hungry baby milk.
My 4th was breastfed and had no problems at all I scoffed at how easy it was.
Then I had dc5 and it had been a nightmare. No pain from the actual feeding latch good supply good but an awful skin infection which I have had for MONTHS loads of creams, antibiotics etc I now understand why people give up. I have been so close over the last few months but its finally clearing up now that my dd is 13 months.

AmberSocks Mon 25-Feb-13 21:30:05

to answer your original question alibaba

I have bf my 4 for various lengths of time,my 3rd for 2 yrs,the other 3 between a couple of weeks and a couple of months

i found with the 3 i gave formula,when you first switch to bottles it seems so much easier,the after a couple of weeks you realise its harder because of all the sterilizing and having to warm bottles up i the night and stuff.

Also i have always give the comfort milk(this time as soon as i switched to ff as i didnt want to wait til my baby was screaming with constipation)and they have actually stopped making it,so now what am i supposed to do?

If i was bf,my baby wouldnt be constipated and i wouldnt have to worry about what i was going to feed him,so yes i wished id tried harder,my problems could of easily been sorted i just didnt ask for help.

shellshock7 Mon 25-Feb-13 21:30:56

alibaba I'm unusual in my family in wanting to BF...the reasons given to me were varied...my breasts aren't for that, it's goin to be painful and hard work, DH can't help with BF, baby won't get into a routine with BF, but mainly some people just 'don't believe the hype' and think the extra work (which it is for many) just isn't worth the rewards as they don't buy into them

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 25-Feb-13 21:32:31

No Amber I don't mean why do people choose to FF in the first place. I'm aware of all the various reasons that lead people to make that choice.

What I'm curious about, is if FF is then 'difficult' in the ways that people have talked about on this thread with babies wanting too much milk, needing HBM and so on - does that experience make them re-evaluate and wish they had BF instead?

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 25-Feb-13 21:34:04

x-posts.

brettgirl2 Mon 25-Feb-13 21:35:29

I FF and dont get the hungry baby milk at all and I dont know anyone who has used it. FF is piss easy, making up a bottle is about as hard as making a cup of tea. If they are having a growth spurt put an extra scoop in.

shellshock7 Mon 25-Feb-13 21:36:55

I think if you decide to FF it is usually for a pretty strong reason so it wouldn't enter your head to wish you had BF?

If you have trouble and have to stop BF, then encounter probs with FF then yes, you may wish you had been able to continue

MagratOfStolat Mon 25-Feb-13 21:36:59

I had to formula-feed because I was physically unable to breastfeed (something I still feel guilty about), but we had a really tough time with out DS.

From about two weeks old up until he was 12 weeks, he would feed perfectly normally. Then around 4pm he'd feed...but he wouldn't stop. He'd demand more milk more milk more milk. He'd drink so much that eventually he'd throw it all back up. Then 15 minutes later he'd be screeching for a feed again, and the cycle would go again. He'd demand so much food that he'd throw it all up, and then demand more food because his stomach was empty. We'd give him another bottle and he'd drink enough to satisfy his hunger and then it would return to normal again.

We had no idea what was wrong, and we tried probably a hundred different solutions. We tried colief, gripe water, moving his legs, baby massage, giving him a bath, trying to alter his feeding ritual, rocking, singing, putting him down for a nap, playing with him, taking him for walks and drives, taking him to the park, baby indigestion powder, lactose-free milk... you name it we tried it. At 10 weeks we went to our HV who eventually just went "Have you tried Hungry Baby?".

We tried it and it was an immense relief. All of the food he was sicking up in the afternoon suddenly stopped. He became more relaxed in the afternoons and less agitated - the relief on our faces must have been a picture, and he was a happier baby for it.

Honestly? I can understand why people would put their children onto it. DS was amazing for sleeping through and was a perfect baby in every respect except for two hours in the afternoon. It was the oddest thing I've ever known.

NumericalMum Mon 25-Feb-13 21:42:32

beatlegirl I sobbed every time I fed my DC for about 5 weeks (well the first week was fine it was after that) but I continued. My SIL said she was going to give up as it was hurting a bit and that can't be right. I told her about me and she was amazed. She is still feeding now at 5 months and it is fine. She would otherwise have given up. I think people believe it is easy and give up if it hurts a bit. Obviously I can't tell if yours was worse than mine, but I do think a lot of things can be overcome with a bit of help and support.

I haven't used hungry baby milk but I imagine that people use it when their baby is effectively demanding more milk than they actually need in calorie terms. In the same way that I don't rush to give DD chocolate every time she demands it just because it is higher in calories than the alternative food available. However other posters seem to suggest that it is just a different formulation that suits some babies, in the same way that one baby may not do so well on SMA as Aptamil or vice versa.

"If they are having a growth spurt put an extra scoop in."

brettgirl Please don't do this, it's really bad for the baby's kidneys. The formula is designed to be dissolved in a specific amount of water.

By all means, add more water as well as an extra scoop, I hope that's what you meant.

goldenlula Mon 25-Feb-13 21:54:12

Alibaba I didn't choose to ff, either there was something wrong with me or all three of my children missed the lesson on bf being natural before they were born sad I wish it had worked for us but it didn't so formula was the only choice, but hen other than the sickness with both boys, it was all ok on formula and they are healthy children now.

shellshock7 Mon 25-Feb-13 21:59:38

numerical just because that was you and your SILs experience doesn't mean it's true for everyone...I too worked thru the pain of the first couple of weeks, but not everyone can and I do believe the mother's happiness is important too. I can see why if the pain was worse than I had, or lasted longer, I would have switched to FF

Pilgit Mon 25-Feb-13 22:01:41

Babies on the hungry baby formula don't get less than they need - it helps them to not over feed. Just like with most food there is a difference between calorie content and feeling full. A bowl of muesli and yoghurt will be more calories than the egg with marmite on wholemeal toast but the egg and toast will keep me fuller longer - why - because it is slower release and more protein based. The same is true for formula milk. It keeps them fuller a little bit longer so that they don't consume more than they need.

bruffin Mon 25-Feb-13 22:05:50

Seeker
You have a bad memory My ds is 17 and there was most definitwly hungry baby milk. Although I think it wasnt called hungry baby. There was white and gold versions of sma. One was hungry baby milk.

TeWiSavesTheDay Mon 25-Feb-13 22:08:07

When DD was a few days old we started mixed feeding her. Regular formula made her vomit, so we gave her hbm, which mostly stayed down.

I've recently realised she has a dairy intolerance, which is why she was being sick. I'm very annoyed that the hbm masked this, and I haven't realised for so long

Plan is to mix-fed next baby (i don't get on with ebf, it's too much) but only if they can tolerate normal formula. No hungry baby allowed!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 25-Feb-13 22:09:11

golden I wasn't looking for justifications, or anything like that. I hope I haven't upset you.

Sleepybunny Tue 26-Feb-13 00:04:23

Maybe I'm just naive being a first time mum, but if I was ff my DD and I thought she had a large appetite then maybe I would pick up something like this if I saw it in the supermarket. I mean how do you know when to just up the volume of their feeds or move on to this type of milk? You would assume it is higher in calories, hope the packaging provides clear guidance!

goldenlula Tue 26-Feb-13 00:07:10

No, I will always regret not being able to bf. But it is something I have had to get over. I didn't mean to sound like I was justifying it, I never gave the whole hungry baby milk thing a lot of thought tbh, so it was not a problem for me at all. I had my reasons for using it for ds2, I didn't need it for the other 2. I certainly never thought of it as putting him on a diet.

Doubletroublemummy2 Tue 26-Feb-13 00:17:05

Sorry,, Evil Satan mother here!! My babies (twins) where on hungry baby formula - (the one I used had more calories than the non.) for 11pm feeds from around 3 months and I started introducing solid food at 4 months. it must be the dark magic i use that makes them such beautiful healthy bright children today wink. i can say though that appart from the cold or teething issues I slept well and appolgise to no one for that grin

Pickles101 Tue 26-Feb-13 01:17:32

Thumbs up to Pilgit for explaining it v. well smile

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 09:26:03

pilgit thats what I said in the OP simply rephrased. It doesn't address the issue of whether or not a baby demanding more milk is A) correct and needs more calories B) greedy and in need of being put on a diet.

Everything I have read about post weaning toddler nutrition says that you should feed them when they are hungry and not force food on them when they are not. This enables the child to maintain their inbuilt calorie counter in good nick and reduces levels of obesity later in childhood.

I am not getting why that shouldn't still be the case for babies on milk. It is for BF babies...you feed on demand. Why should it not be FF? Is there some magic ingredient that stops babies recognising then they are full on FM? IT would appear to have basically the same calorie density as BM?

I wonder if it is actually this practise of not feeding FF babies when they 'demand' that is correlated with increases in childhood obesity, and actually nothing to do with the FM itself.... <ponders>

AmberSocks Tue 26-Feb-13 09:26:24

formula is harder for a babys digestive system to digest,so im guessing hbm just has more of the bit they find hard to digest?(which is why bf babies feed more as they digest it quicker)

PolkadotCircus Tue 26-Feb-13 09:31:38

No Icb it's the snack culture and I suspect,crap food and a sedentary lifestyle.

Mothers constantly handing out snacks all through the day can't be good.The snacking thing is relatively new.

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 09:35:42

polka but surely BF mothers do snacking too....I was trying to understand why FF is associated with more than average childhood obesity problems...and wondering if it the fact that FF is less likely (apparently according to this thread) to be given on demand.

PolkadotCircus Tue 26-Feb-13 09:47:57

Links with obesity were discredited,not surprised really considering people often bf/ff differently and often do both,at the end of the day if you eat pies and don't exercise you'll get fat regardless of how you were fed.

monkeysbignuts Tue 26-Feb-13 11:43:51

I think obesity in children is more to do with the shit they're fed, rather than the milk they had as babies.
My 3 were breast fed. 1st one for 12 months, 2nd for 6 & my 3rd is in the process of being switched over because I am finding it very difficult (despite my experience)
Anyway fact is that my two older children are tall and slim. I don't feed them junk (only as a treat now and then) & they are both active. We have scooters, bikes and a trampoline. They swim once a week and walk too and from school every day.

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 12:09:43

argh! I really wasn't even in passing trying to blame obesity on FF! I just thought it was possible the mode of delivery ie with on demand not being pushed in the case of FF might be influencing things....

The whole point of kids and their calorie compensation mechanism is that it doesn't matter what you feed them as long as you don't push food on them or restrict their intake yourself...oh and they have a fighting chance to register full ie no fizzy drinks etc.

I think I only heard FF to obesity link on MN so I really shouldn't have given it credit in the first place blush

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 12:18:32

decided to have a look and found a 2009 study that concludes:

"Infants who are bottle-fed in early infancy are more likely to empty the bottle or cup in late infancy than those who are fed directly at the breast. Bottle-feeding, regardless of the type of milk, is distinct from feeding at the breast in its effect on infants' self-regulation of milk intake."

So nothing FF bashing about it...just that bottle feeding (either BM or FM) apparently removes some ability to self-regulate in some babies....

I understand that the composition of breast milk changes through the feed, so a little and often feeder would get slightly different milk to an every 4 hours feeder. I speculate that since formula doesn't have this quality some babies will over feed (the ones that take so much they vomit) and shifting the composition of formula can help them to feel full sooner. Babies can also drain a bottle faster than they could BF the same volume of milk and with little effort on their part, so some will drain the bottle before they have had any feelings of their appetite being sated

DD was demand formula fed, but she rarely drained a bottle and never clamoured for more than the recommended amount. As a toddler she loves protein and mostly doesn't ask for snacks between meals, probably because protein tends to make you feel full for longer, like hungry baby milk.

I am not really confident that all babies can self regulate. Anecdotally I have known some very heavy demand fed EBF babies. Also toddlers are not all self regulating by a long way and it seems odd that we think they ate up to a certain age and then lose the ability.

TheBigJessie Tue 26-Feb-13 12:41:05

Someone earlier on asked about the saying that one can't over feed a breast fed baby, and whether it was possible to over-feed with formula.

This is, and isn't, true. It's not about the milk, it's actually about the feeding mechanism! Making a tiny, low birthweight newborn, that just wants to sleep, latch on is very, very difficult! (Especially if YOU are a first-time breastfeeder; if I ever have a tiny sleepy lbw baby again, latching on will be much easier!) Thank goodness for formula, and bottles and teats.

However, you can manage to get the vital milk (formula, expressed breast milk) in with a teat, because you can just push the teat in and THEN you can jiggle the teat around until you stimulate the sucking reflex, and you can keep doing this until the bottle is gone. (Unless you have darling twin 2, who would refuse the rest of the bottle and would manage to defeat experienced midwives by day 10 or so grin).

TheBigJessie Tue 26-Feb-13 12:48:43

Regarding the current discussion, if you are bottle-feeding an infant of any age, I would imagine that there could be a temptation to force that last 5ml or 25ml down the baby, whether it's EBM which took hours to produce, or expensive formula.

But I am, of course, extrapolating from myself.

milf90 Tue 26-Feb-13 12:50:48

i used hungry baby formula at around 3 months because LO was feeding none stop during the day and waking every 45 minutes for a feed in the night - it did make a huge difference and LO was instantly a lot more content. We actually went an hour between feed during the day and he sttn or woke up just once.

MiaowTheCat Tue 26-Feb-13 13:21:18

Aaah a thinly-veiled formula feeder bash thread... let's play to all the usual conceptions.

The world would be a lot nicer a place if people stopped passive-aggressive fake "wondering why" about what other parents did and concentrated on their own parenting.

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 13:24:31

breathing and Jessie both really interesting posts. It does seem likely that you can break the self regulation by either forcing a toddler to finish a plate or by artificially stimulating the suck swallow reflex....<has also been tempted to force in a little more expressed milk into ungrateful so-and-so of a daughter.>

It is odd that some babies will leave a half full bottle of milk but others wont.

ICBINEG Tue 26-Feb-13 13:25:44

Nah it is definitely a not at all veiled potato bashing thread....it surprises me that almost no-one has noticed that....

Pigsmummy Tue 26-Feb-13 13:29:59

The last feed at night I use HBM, it has worked well for us and we all get more sleep, I am questioning it but will continue until weaning.

Fillyjonk75 Tue 26-Feb-13 13:30:26

I really had no idea about hungry baby milk when I ff DD2 after bf for 3 months. I did wonder about trying it, but didn't bother in the end. When she was drinking several full bottles of no 1 formula a day and still wanting more, I just started solids, at about 4 months, and she nearly gummed my arm off, as well as the spoon, etc.

Pigsmummy Tue 26-Feb-13 13:34:27

Also the HBM I use does have a higher calorie content in it that non.

Very well said Piglet - beautifully explained!

As a new born you expect to be feeding frequently but usually it settles down. Is it really seen as normal to be feeding 3/4/5 month old ff babies every two hours day and night? Being bloated from so much milk can't be good for them. If there's something out there that helps regulate the feeds a bit then great! Didn't work for mine had opposite effect but I gather that for some it does work. It's all very well saying just feed just feed but people have to go back to work at some point. Is it normal to find childminders and nursery to constantly feed babies of that age two hourly the whole time when they have other babies to look after. ?

yaimee Tue 26-Feb-13 14:46:20

Oh god, it a 3 in 1.
A chance for everyone to talk about how their chosen baby nourishing method is superior, a chance to talk about weaning and an added fatty bashing element for good measure*

monkeysbignuts Tue 26-Feb-13 16:36:36

Fatty bashing lol

MummytoKatie Fri 01-Mar-13 20:19:29

The difference between breastfeeding and formula feeding is that breasts don't have a full/empty dial on them so it is difficult to know how much the baby is getting.

As a result if the baby eats less than usual you don't realise and so don't try and encourage them to have a bit more.

As an obsessive type breastfeeding was a relief as otherwise I would have been recording every last sip and worrying about it.

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