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To think lateness is the rudest thing?

(359 Posts)
slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 15:23:54

It says 'my time is more valuable than yours'.

I just don't understand this attitude where it is ok to be late. It's so flakey! And yet it seems that so many people think it's alright.

I feel like there's this perception that it's a little bit cool, and if you pick someone up for it, then you need to 'relax'.

Well, it's bloody not alright. It is RUDE.

Grr.

chickensarmpit Mon 25-Feb-13 15:25:31

Yes it's rude but not the rudest thing. The rudest thing is having breath worse than dog shit and standing really close to me in the post office. Which is exactly what happened today! Personal space and tic tacs people!

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 15:27:51

Ooooh yes chickensarmpit. I also hate people who 'bodge' you 'by accident' with their trolley from behind when you're at the checkout in a supermarket.

I understand you need to get your stuff onto the checkout belt, but really; bodging me with your trolley isn't going to make me move any faster.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 15:38:34

As long as you’re not 2 hours late! There is a limit! I just bloody hate it, I don’t understand how people can be all ‘Oh that’s totes fine babes that you left me in the pissing rain and sleet on a streetcorner waiting for you for 45 minutes. I soooo don’t even mind because I’m just sooo cool. Now, d’you think you could be a total hun and drop me off at A&E? I’m pretty sure I’ve contracted pneumonia waiting for you. Thanks babes!! LOL!’

Fuck off, it’s fucking RUDE! Bah.

WMDinthekitchen Mon 25-Feb-13 15:42:24

I think that any unpunctuality is rude unless, for example, there is unexpected traffic congestion. This goes for either arriving late or arriving early. My mother was always 30 minutes early (OK if it is the dentist but not if invited to someone's house for a meal - you go round the block a few times or find somewhere to have a coffee).

expatinscotland Mon 25-Feb-13 15:44:37

'Punctuality is the courtesy of kings.'

adeucalione Mon 25-Feb-13 15:46:03

Yes, rude.

The only way to deal with repeat offenders is to make arrangements whereby their lateness will result in them losing out - so meet for a meal, or at the cinema, so that you can order your food or start watching the movie without them.

Funnily enough most of them manage to be on time for the things that are really important to them - not many people sacked for being repeatedly late.

I agree. And DH is habitually late. It's a MASSIVE source of aggrevation when we are both meant to be leaving the house to go somewhere.

thefirstmrsrochester Mon 25-Feb-13 15:50:01

rude rude rude rude.
And it reeks of 'my time is more valuable that yours'.

AND his father is habitually late.

Imagine the aggrevation when I went to meet them both yesterday, DH hadn't showed up on time and his Dad was quizzing me on when he would arrive.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 15:51:59

I just feel like now though, so many people are late without even acknowledging it; I must be one of a few who really care about it.

I'm not talking about being late through no fault of your own, and explaining/apologising when you do arrive.

It's just like turning up 10-15 minutes late is almost 'acceptable' now.

I didn't even turn up late to my own wedding. DH would've been beside himself. And we had guests waiting...

PhyllisDoris Mon 25-Feb-13 15:52:06

I agree. And I make a point of not saying "that's OK" when people say "I'm sorry I'm late". Because it's not OK.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 15:54:30

thesurgeonsmate That would be more than I could bear! I'd permanently be on edge!

thefirst exactly. That is why it is so rude.

Do some people honestly not see this?

I have a friend who I've known for many, many years. She is always late. Coming over to my house for a drink or popping out, she'll be at least 30 minutes late.

The worst one was when she and her DP were 45 minutes late for DS' Christening, only just arriving in time to get to the church. I was so, so hurt and angry.

grovel Mon 25-Feb-13 15:56:52

I hate people arriving early too.

If I invite guests for 7.30 it means that I'll be ready to receive them (just) by 7.30.

adeucalione Mon 25-Feb-13 15:57:42

Yes it does seem to be increasingly acceptable - I feel a bit old fashioned to turn up somewhere on time nowadays, and you are definitely made to feel a bit unreasonable if you display any irritation at being kept waiting.

Hence, for my own sanity, I only meet late people at places where I can carry on with my day without them - so I'll meet you inside the museum, text me when you arrive and I'll tell you where I am so you can come and find me.

Worst offenders - people who keep you waiting when you are doing them the favour of picking them up in the car, so you either sit outside with the engine idling for half an hour, or are forced to sit calmly in their house while they run around drying their hair or whatever.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 15:58:19

grovel I agree, but I think that's far less common. Unless you've had experience? I sense you have grin

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:00:39

adeu That's awful, and when they behave as if there's nothing wrong, or it's just a minor inconvenience!

There is NO justification for habitual lateness. None.

I'm actually beginning to think of drawing away from my friend a little because it hurts my feelings so much.

grovel Mon 25-Feb-13 16:01:22

Oh yes. We've got friends who consistently arrive early. Bloody rude.

For parties I was brought up to arrive 15 minutes after invitation time.

I feel that with DH he'd be dismayed if he had to wait alone, so he's actively trying to avoid being first. But that means I have to wait alone every bloody time. Grr.

neolara Mon 25-Feb-13 16:05:24

I totally agree with lateness being the height of rudeness, as is being early. (Still haven't quite forgiven one mum who brought her two not very well behaved kids to my ds's birthday party 20 mins before kick off.) However, I think it is also impolite to be on time for a dinner invitation - ten mins late is the acceptable time to arrive in those circumstances.

gingeme Mon 25-Feb-13 16:08:43

Oh I despise people who are late sooooo rude. Im never late and would never dream of being .
My Dh is never late but he leaves going anywhere right till the last minute which makes me panic In case were late envy

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:09:47

Ah, now grovel parties are a different matter altogether I'm afraid. I also think 10-15 minutes after the start time is correct. Because it avoids any awkwardness, and allows the hosts any extra time to run out to Tesco/clean the loo/finish dressing/sit down for a minute.

thesurgeonsmate but that comes down to being comfortable in your own skin, don't you think? Being able to wait on your own for 5/10 minutes?

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:11:10

neolara See for a dinner invitation, 10 minutes late is questionable for me. Why? Do you put parties and dinner in the same lateness acceptability bracket? grin

I make a point of not saying "that's OK" when people say "I'm sorry I'm late". Because it's not OK.

Personally I find not accepting someone's apology even more rude.

snooter Mon 25-Feb-13 16:13:37

My husband of over 20 years' duration is late for all social occasions which drives me nuts. He typically faffs about for ages doing irrelevant stuff, knowing there's limited time, & then goes into the shower 10 minutes before I think we ought to leave, gets ready in a rush & then zooms out of the door when he is ready, leaving me trailing in his wake, as if I am the one holding him up! I know it's a power thing, before anyone points it out.

livinginwonderland Mon 25-Feb-13 16:13:46

it's so rude, and it drives me crazy. it's basically saying "i don't care that you have to wait around and that my actions are inconveniencing you, i'll do what i want because i can". if someone is continuously late, i stop hanging out with them and i won't hesitate to tell them it's because they're always late should they care enough to ask.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:17:48

living wow! How courageous! What kinds of responses have you had from these people?

gingeme Mon 25-Feb-13 16:23:36

Oh snooter I feel your pain angry.

thefirstmrsrochester Mon 25-Feb-13 16:24:12

My DM has made an art of being late. Her way of showing that, ultimately, she is what it's all about. And challenge her on it? Weeping & wailing and poor picked on me. Passive aggressive. As I think many persistent late comers are.
She left after me on my own wedding day fgs because she was so 'up to high doh' that she had to be allowed a solitary cup of tea in the house before striding in, in her own good time, as the mother of the bride, so the fekking wedding could commence.
Lateness is rude. End. Of.

CelticPixie Mon 25-Feb-13 16:25:28

Unless there's a good reason for it then I think its very bloody rude.

Argh huge source of annoyance for me!! I always make the effort to get places 5-10 mins early, so I can account for traffic or navigation issues etc.

Biggest source of irritation is DH's ex-wife. Always at least an hour late when dropping kids to us, to the point where DH and I have had to miss out on taking them for meals with family etc because they've not arrived on time; are NEVER ready when we go to get them (on time of course, have now started to show up early so we can chivvy them along!), and sadly this attitude seems to have rubbed off on my lovely DSS, who was dithering about getting ready soooo slowly for a party he'd been invited to by a school friend - when we reminded him of the time, he shrugged and said 'so? We'll only be half hour late, that's ok." We spent the next 5 minutes trying to explain that any later than ON TIME was rude!!

I probably wouldn't mind as much if the XW hadn't kicked off in a huff the two times we have been late to drop the children back (once due to traffic jam, other due to not realising clocks had gone back). Double standards!!

mamanancy Mon 25-Feb-13 16:27:47

My DH was late for our wedding..there nearly wasn't a wedding!! anytime we go anywhere now I tell him it starts 30 mins before it does so we are on time! Totally agree about it being rude.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:27:52

thefirst shock Good grief! What is WRONG with your DM? I'd have had to have cooled off a bit before I spoke to her again! You are a saint!

Seriously, is it a passive aggressive thing? Persistent lateness/flakiness?

AmberSocks Mon 25-Feb-13 16:29:56

lateness doesnt bother me at all unless its for something special and that person beig late affects everyone else.

and to me,it just says that person is either unorganized or got slowed down o the way,i wouldnt just assume they thought their time was more important than mine.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:30:16

maman What was his explaination for that?!

phoenix that is really, really sad she's bringing her DS' up like that, don't you think?

AmberSocks Mon 25-Feb-13 16:33:08

i was an hour late for my wedding,the world didnt end,no one died,they all just chatted ad had a drink ad some canapes,it wast intentional.

AmberSocks Mon 25-Feb-13 16:34:13

bloody n key

CrapBag Mon 25-Feb-13 16:35:29

Woo, my kind of thread!

I LOATHE LOATHE LOATHE lateness with a passion. Did I mention how much I hate it!! grin

It is rude and drives me mad, and like others have said, there seems to be this acceptablilty about it nowadays. People can swan in when they like etc and you are clearly U if you moan about it.

I know someone who has a bit of reputation for being late but god forbid if you mention it! She gets really shitty then states that she has reasons. Yes she may have had in the past (just about?) but these said reasons have gone and she is still always late. I am really fed up of the bloody excuses now, there is ALWAYS something. What do I not have a life also? I manage to always be on time though.

I have a very flakey friend who can swan in any time. She was late for getting the taxi to pick me up for my own birthday night out one time. I was fuming at having to wait over an hour whilst everyone else was out and waiting for me.

One time a friend of mine was over half an hour late to my DSs birthday party. I had delayed starting the games for her, then I had to stand there whilst she wittered on about her reasons for being late (not valid or relevent, something to do with the night before confused). I was really pissed off but as usual I said nothing.

Phosphene Mon 25-Feb-13 16:35:41

It is incredible rude, so YANBU.

DeepRedBetty Mon 25-Feb-13 16:36:29

Snooter I've got one of yours...

For DP, we resorted to ultimate measures, or rather his sister did. She had a special wedding invitation printed, just for him, with the time half an hour early. I was in on it too. It worked, we got there with ten minutes to spare! I considered putting him out of his misery on the way, especially the bit when we were stuck behind a tractor on a narrow lane, but he really deserved the punishment.

He's been much better since!

mamanancy Mon 25-Feb-13 16:36:38

slatternlymother: his transport was late but only because he hadn't booked it early enough in the first place! tbh I laugh at it now but it really annoyed me at the time..don't think I've ever been that mad lol

CrapBag Mon 25-Feb-13 16:38:12

A funny thing is though, why is it always the same people? Even when they come up with a valid reason, why is it never the ones who can manage to get places on time who ever have these reasons for being late? I genuinely don't understand that one!

flangledoodle Mon 25-Feb-13 16:38:19

I have always had a problem being on time I find it v difficult estimating how long it will take me to leave the house and make my jouney etc also, for some strange reason I find being early for anything strangely anxiety provoking. Sorry to all those I have kept waiting blush

nenevomito Mon 25-Feb-13 16:39:51

I'd much rather be early than late. At the very least I'm on time.

One of my loveliest friends is permanently running 20 mins late. She's not rude, just completely dippy. I just adjust my own timings when I'm going to meet up with her.

slatternlymother yes it does frustrate me and DH that our otherwise lovely little boy is being brought up with these very selfish kind of values, but we try as best as we can to correct the behaviour in the time he is with us! Luckily older DSD is much more mature and empathetic to other people's feelings.

SigmundFraude Mon 25-Feb-13 16:43:02

Extremely rude. YANBU.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:44:42

crapbag Yes, it IS always the same people. And a genuine reason is a genuine reason, but disorganisation to that extent should be dealt with.

lustybusty Mon 25-Feb-13 16:48:00

My now-exP was always late for everything. I tend towards 5 mins early. On the couple of occasions he apologised, (after we'd been together a while and chatted about his lateness) I just replied "good" (as in, "I'm sorry I'm late", "good"). Then I started on the "what time shall I pick you up? 6? Ok. I'll call at 10 to and if you're not in the car by 10 past, I'm going without you". I did, twice. But that STILL didn't stop him from causing us to be late leaving the house for my brothers 21st birthday party, causing us to miss the train, so he ended up forking out £45 for a taxi to get us there. I assume he will be late to his own funeral.

tabulahrasa Mon 25-Feb-13 16:50:04

<stands in the late corner with flangledoodle>

How do you be on time? I seem to be completely missing whatever it is that allows you to estimate how long things take...so I'm late or early for everything.

SmilingMakesMyFaceAche Mon 25-Feb-13 16:52:14

Well, I've just ended a friendship over this. Said friend decided to go off somewhere for the morning, knowing as a group we were meeting at 3. Threw her toys out if the pram when at 2 she was rung to remind her to turn up and wanted us to wait for her to arrive! She's a repeat offender. She called me a bitch for not wanting to wait. I've realised I can do without spending hours if my time waiting for her to turn up to things.

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:52:30

tabulah better early, than late. <channels grandmother>
You could always pop to the shop first then, to pick up a bottle of wine if you were going to a dinner party.

Do you have friends who live in different places? Or rely on public transport a lot? Because the latter can be a nightmare!

slatternlymother Mon 25-Feb-13 16:56:58

smiling shock! She doesn't sound like much of a friend anyway.

I have a friend as I mentioned earlier, who is habitually late. Recently, she's flaked out on something that was quite important to me (as in, 15 minutes before I was due to collect her she cancelled. Via voicemail.)

I like her as a person very much, but I am thinking of cooling the friendship for a few weeks/months until I get over it a bit.

I do feel like we're good enough friends that if there's a reason behind this persistent lateness/flakiness, she should be able to tell me/confide in me. I don't want to break the friendship over it, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who feel this way. smile

SmilingMakesMyFaceAche Mon 25-Feb-13 17:00:26

She's been awful. Arranged a day out with her my DS and her dn. she kept fobbing me off with ill be there soon but eventually turned up 5 hours late. She's terrible. What's killed me off is the total vitriol she spewed at me for refusing to take the blame for her missing out on activity because she was late, like was said up thread, it's as if her time is more important than ours and it eventually did me in.

tabulahrasa Mon 25-Feb-13 17:03:01

I drive - that makes it even worse doesn't it? lol

To be fair, my sat nav tells me how long the drive will be - I do account for traffic, but not always correctly. Even things which I do regularly catch me out, they're never the time I think they're going to be.

It stresses me out actually and I'm even worse if I'm stressed already - I've been an hour early for a job interview before. What's worse is that I get myself in a state because I'm stressing so much about the time that everything takes longer to do. blush

Close friends and family are used to it, they tell me the wrong time for things and tbh I prefer that as when I arrive thinking I'm late and I'm not, it's a massive relief. But it is a bit rubbish for them that they have to do that.

CrunchyFrog Mon 25-Feb-13 20:00:18

It's rude, it drives me bananas and some people do use it as a power play - XH is ALWAYS, always 10 mins late. But you'd look a petty twat to mention it. Unless I have something important on, then he is 45 minutes late. But, you know, he apologises.

Lorelilee Mon 25-Feb-13 20:09:45

I HATE IT. It shows a total lack of respect for the other person. And, yes, it is ALWAYS the same people. I'd MUCH rather people were early - I just chuck a drink at them and tell them I'll be with them at the appointed hour :D

BimbaBirba Mon 25-Feb-13 20:11:17

YANBU
It's very rude.
Last year we were invited to a friend's birthday party at a Chinese restaurant for lunch. Me and DH and all the kids got there on time but the birthday person and her family (along with the rest of the guests) arrived 1 hour late! We felt like such twats waiting for them in the restaurant and we were starving too! We called them a couple of times and we were told that they were on their way each time. They arrived as we were about to leave. Apparently the other guests had been picked up on the way so we were the only ones waiting at the restaurant!
These same people have recently arrived 45 minutes late at the train station for a Cubs trip to London. They kept a group of 50 people waiting in the cold for that long!
DH and I decided not to be friends
with them anymore because of it.

digerd Mon 25-Feb-13 20:18:10

Not only rude but no consideration for anyone else - so selfish to boot. The group should have gone without them.

McNewPants2013 Mon 25-Feb-13 20:25:48

The only time i am ever late is when using public transport.

gingeme Thu 28-Feb-13 16:36:09

Why McNewpants? If you plan your journey and check the timetables you should not have to be late !

5Foot5 Thu 28-Feb-13 17:02:17

thefirstmrsrochester shock at your DM on your wedding day!

Please tell me you started the wedding without her so she missed some of it! It would have served her right.

I too get immensely irritated at persistent latecomers.My Dad always told me that if you had to be somewhere at a certain time then you should always aim to be there 10 minutes earlier - that way you had a bit of leeway for delays and would be on time. Mind you in my youth I spent a lot of time standing about on railway platforms because he insisted on getting me there for my train in such ample time!

littlemisssunny Thu 28-Feb-13 17:05:10

I try to be on time and I mostly am, if I'm late it's usually not by much and I shall always apologise and usually text if I can.

I have OCD so while I try to be on time it doesn't always happen sad

I understand it can be frustrating for people but I don't do it on purpose!

ithaka Thu 28-Feb-13 17:52:08

My dad was late for my mum on their first date. She always says she should not have waited.... Admittedly, I wouldn't have been born, but they would have been spared an unhappy marriage & painful divorce.

Due to my dad (& sisters) habitual lateness, I prize punctuality. One of the many things I found attractive (and still find attractive) about my DH is that he is always, always on time. It is a mark of respect for other people and the sign of a kind, considerate person.

My MIL is always late and does that trick a poster mentioned up thread - faffs about while everyone waits then swans in saying 'hadn't we better get going then?' as if everyone else is the hold up. She is, in so many facets of her character, a nasty, selfish, self centred, inconsiderate woman and her lateness exemplifies her attitude to others in her life.

Unless they are family I choose to avoid late people. I don't need selfish people in my life, if I can help it.

I have a friend like this too. Always 30 to 45 mins late because yknow theres something important come up with work/her business that only she can sort as usual.
That or suddenly she cant make it at all because of whatever it is thats come up. I understand shes very very busy hmm , we all are. But the rest of us manage to get through our lives without constantly letting our friends down.

nope.
not the rudest thing.

AnnaRack Thu 28-Feb-13 18:09:53

Punctuality says your time is important - sp you can get on to your next appointment and fit more into your day. The 'mytime is valuable' argument works both ways!

quesadilla Thu 28-Feb-13 18:20:53

Depends on the degree of lateness and how regular it is. If its infrequent its excusable but with repeat offenders it's very annoying. It signals, whether intended or not, that you aren't worthy of a bit of planning.
snooter my DH does this too. And them nags me if I am late.

At my work I have booked appointments and I get very hassled by patients being late.

They know how long it takes to get from their house to the clinic. So factor in extra time (as I did when I went for dental appointment in case I couldn't get in their car park. I had to park elsewhere but I still arrived 15 minutes early )

If you don't know where you are going -^find out^ or allow extra time.

If your car is covered in ice, go out ten minutes early to clear it.
Not rocket science.
I get to work about 8.10 for a 9am start, to make sure I'm ready.

ClippedPhoenix Thu 28-Feb-13 23:23:46

I also think it's rude unless of course a normally prompt person has a bit of a crisis then a text to apologise and say they're on their way is fine.

Witco Thu 28-Feb-13 23:24:16

Try living in Ireland where it is deemed rude to be on time!

sallievp Fri 01-Mar-13 14:40:16

OP, I live in India and lateness here is perfectly normal and acceptable (among 95% of people)...even up to 2 hours late!...I HATE IT!!!
Someone will come to your house for dinner...they say they will arrive between 6-8pm (a 2 hour window...whats that all about!!??) and happily turn up at 9pm!
I always struggle to stay polite and calm...very very rude.

Crinkle77 Fri 01-Mar-13 14:43:01

I don't mind if it's a one off and they have a good excuse but I hate it when it is the same people who are continually late and just give a flaky excuse.

LaQueen Fri 01-Mar-13 14:49:05

There was a really long thread about this, last year I think?

It was very insightful in to how unpunctual people's brains work. I realised that if an unpunctual person (UP) has arranged to meet me at 8.00pm in a bar - then in their heads, at 7.59pm, they're not actually running late...even if they're still 20 minutes away from the bar. If that makes sense?

Apparently, so long as the UP person is en route to you, at on or around 8.00pm, then actually they don't consider that they're running ate, or keeping you waiting.

I shit you not hmm

And when patients are late and say "Well I phoned to say I was running late all indignant. Especially if they are the first or last appointment so there's no leeway to juggle things.

And they'll be told "Oh if you are more than 10 minutes late you might not be seen" and they are maybe 30 minutes away so turn up 40 minutes late (still expecting to be seen because they phoned in)

Yes because the minute you phone - Time Stands Still doesn't it confused

FrankSpenser Fri 01-Mar-13 15:21:09

I live for this thread.

I don't have many friends, but there is one who I'm closest to out of anyone.

She is so FUCKING late for every appointment, arrangement, school run, play date etc since we've known each other. I'd honestly hang my head in shame if it were me.

I love her and want good for her, but I've stated to cool from our friendship of late. Very sad.

take today: Ive got plans at 12:30. Friends calls on my for a favour, putting me in an uncomfortable position with no option to say no. promises to be with me in ten minutes. Rocks up over 30mins later, meaning my plans have been scuppered, my appointment cancelled.

FrankSpenser Fri 01-Mar-13 15:22:24

Apologies for typos, blasted phone. I can never get the hang of writing on this thing.

LaQueen Fri 01-Mar-13 15:26:30

I've come to the conclusion that UP people genuinely perceive time in a different way, to punctual people. I think they totally lack any sort of in-built clock, or any accurate perception of time passing.

I also strongly suspect that UP people are, as a breed, quite self centered/selfish people too.

One of my friends is regularly 30-40 minutes late. So, I now know to adjust my punctuality accordingly. However, interestingly, she genuinely believes that so long as she arrives to meet me within an hour of the actual meeting time - then she doesn't consider herself as being late hmm

FrankSpenser Fri 01-Mar-13 18:09:16

Your preaching to the choir here LaQueen, I know, I know.

I told my friend off (in a light hearted way) for the time she made both of us late in leaving a shopping centre to go pick up our kids from nursery.

I stooopidly believed that if she travels in my car, then there was no possible way she could dawdle and waste time as she would be running on my time <hollow laugh>

But no. Despite repeated text messages, impatient phone calls, beeps on my horn out side the shop, she rolls up to the car at the time when we should bbe in the vicinity of the school. (20 mins minimum away)

My rant to her was about 'taking <insert relevant factor here> into consideration'. She honestly believed she could cram her "quick stop" into the Vodafone shop, get what she needed to, pay for it, get out back to the car, get settled into the car all within 10 mins. She was 45 minutes hmm

She did not take into consideration:

The walk getting from the shop she was in, to the phone shop. (opposite ends of the centre!!!)
A large queue in the store
That an assistant would be available to serve her straight away
Her baby in the pushchair would stay asleep and not wake up and fuss.

Pretty much all these things happened, and my point to her was that if she had thought to herself before hand, "hmm, what if there was a queue. No way could I be served and back in the car within 10 minutes.." then she would have reasoned to forego it for another time.

The icng on the cake was when she told me as she was getting served the till computor froze hmm. It always happens to her!

And yes, I know I sound sooo bloody sanctimonius 'telling off' my friend , but this happens nearly everytime we make arrangements, and each time I bit my lip and 'low it. It's dawning on me that I'm enabling her, I think.

LaQueen Fri 01-Mar-13 21:05:09

And, that's the difference Frank - UP people simply do not factor in anything other than what they want to do. To them, life is so simple and straight forward -'Oh, I need to pop into that VodaPhone shop' and basically, the whole world can just wait there, on their whim hmm

Have a friend similar to yours...she's always, always late. Every time she arrives, she's in a fluster 'Oh, I was just about to leave when I realised I needed to phone British Gas, and then on the way I thought I'd stop and just grab something for tea'

Ergo...she's always nearly an hour late.

Er - WTF are you shopping for your tea, on my time? I have been sat, like a lemon, in this cafe for nearly an hour, unable to do anything other than just friggin wait for you...

FrankSpenser Fri 01-Mar-13 21:48:03

<nods head> Oh yes, that sounds familiar.

andratx Fri 01-Mar-13 21:50:47

I hate constant lateness. I think everyone makes allowances for people with very small children and babies.

But I have a friend who was always very late before she had children. And now she uses them as an excuse for being horribly late. She had been very late on all eight or so of our meetings. Final straw for me was when she was an hour and a half late for a play date, keeping me and my small children waiting in a playground. We were meant to meet at 230pm for 20 mins in the playground, but even when I phoned her, she lied about where she was and eventually turned up at 4pm...and then moaned that it was too cold for the playground because the winter sun had gone down. Grrrrrr. I refuse to see her now.

tigerdriverII Fri 01-Mar-13 21:58:59

Ooh, I really get this. If I am running late - which sometimes happens for a variety of reasons - I get really stressed and have to stop en route and send lots of grovelling emails etc.

One of my pals is always chronically late for everything, she is a SAHM so doesn't have business things getting in the way, and there is never a good reason, honestly. I just say to her - look, I am picking you up at 7.45, don't be late, then I turn up at 8, and we get away at 8.15, and as the thing doesn't start until 8.45, we're fine, but it's a pain doing the maths to get us places on time!

DH always but always has to go to the loo for 20 mins when we are on the way to the airport. I just lie about the flight time, he never checks grin

WorriedTeenMum Fri 01-Mar-13 22:30:37

I have seen it expressed as being either relationship focused or task focused. My DPiL are entirely relationship focused.

Take a typical example:

DPiL are coming to see us, we live 30 minutes away from them. A random acquaintance arrives at DPiL's house 5 minutes before DPiL are about to leave 5 minutes before they are due at our house.

DPiL dont say 'lovely to see you but we are on our way out and are already late'. Instead they invite random acquaintance in, ply them with warm beverages, biscuits and conversation.

At that moment the relationship with the random acquaintance is more important than the relationship with us.

Eventually random acquaintance leaves and DPiL set off to see us now 2 hours late before they set off. Do they phone? No. They arrived and are deeply upset to find that we are frosty.

At that moment they are wanting a relationship with us but we have other things to do and are running out of time to get them done (DH & I are task focused)

tallulah Fri 01-Mar-13 23:02:18

My DH is late for everything, all the time. He has absolutely no idea of time and never takes into account how long it will take to get anywhere. I am the opposite and get really panicky if I think we are going to be late. When we go somewhere together we are always late, and I hate it.

He used to pick me up from work every night. I finished at 5pm and could never understand why I'd still be standing there at 5.15. Over time it became clear that he was leaving home at 5pm for a journey that took 10 - 15 mins. So of course he was never going to be there in time.

We had karate tonight, which starts at 6.30. At 6.15 I was ready to go. He was having a nap. At 6.20 he thought he'd start getting ready and we finally got out of the house just after 6.25, when DD then faffed instead of getting in the car. We were late, as usual.

I leave for school at 8.40 at the latest. It should be a 5 minute drive. He leaves at 8.45 to walk even though we've never done it in less than 20 mins. Then he is surprised that he is late hmm. He told me he is never late, yet we left just after 3pm the other night and didn't get to school until 3.25 - 10 mins late. He said I didn't walk fast enough, despite the fact he was trailing behind me the whole way.

Sadly DD (5) seems to have inherited his laxadaisical ways and I'm nearly being driven demented trying to get her moving.

But I think you are wrong about the mind-set. He doesn't believe his time is more important than mine/ anyone elses. He doesn't consciously think about it at all. He just doesn't seem to be capable of working backwards to leave in enough time.

MrsExcited Fri 01-Mar-13 23:14:40

I agree with early votes, my mil has been known to turn up2 hours early!!

tigerdriverII Fri 01-Mar-13 23:17:49

tallulah. Honestly, just lie about times you have to be places. My ex-h was like this, it was innocent but absolutely irritating. And DH can get time but has this going to the loo thing....

Truth is an overrated concept when it comes to timekeeping, I find.

flangledoodle Fri 01-Mar-13 23:26:45

Some people just can't get their shit together and are not being malicious. I have been donig the same job with the same start time for 10 years and still have to work out what time to set the alarm. I just found out yesterday that a colleague is sent mad by people not putting things back in a cupboard in alphabetical order, he just can't understand it and it drives him mad. I only found out yesterday that it's supposed to be in alphabetical order - had never even noticed.

midastouch Sat 02-Mar-13 00:36:22

I hate late people, i have a friend who i meet in town for coffee with our DCsevery couple of weeks, im always early but she is without fail always over an hour late, then i get a text saying im just popping into ... shop 2 minutes!! Thats just taking the total pee isnt it?!

Beaverfeaver Sat 02-Mar-13 00:47:07

I think it's more rude to be early

Beaverfeaver Sat 02-Mar-13 00:47:58

P.s: to clarify- I also hate lateness.

Which is why I keep perfect timing, all of the time !!!!

luanmahi Sat 02-Mar-13 01:18:44

As a perpetually late person myself, I would like to defend myself against some of the accusations by saying that I do NOT think my time is more important than other people's and I genuinely try to be on time but really struggle. I set all the clocks in my house fast, have alarms not just to wake me up but at various times throughout the day to let me know when I've got half an hour before I leave the house, when I'm due back to work after lunch, when I need to feed baby, etc. My problem is I don't have the ability to measure time in my head. For example, if you told me to stand on one leg for 5 mins (it could happen), unless I had a clock to time me, I literally wouldn't have a clue when 5 mins was up.

As I've got older, I've got better at managing it but I generally tend to be on the last minute, rushing round and getting places with no time to spare. I always feel terrible when I've made someone wait for me and would never dream of not apologising.

ClippedPhoenix Sat 02-Mar-13 01:35:27

I can sort of relate to you luan. I have that thing going on and all of a sudden it's on me to get somewhere, the panic sets in and im doing a thousand things at once, or so it seems, which is weird. I still always manage to be early somehow????

GreenLeafTea Sat 02-Mar-13 02:29:02

I admit I can be late. I really struggle with judging time so for me I genuinely think that I can run into the supermarket grab a few things and pay in 10 minutes. Sometimes in the morning I do a couple of things then look at the clock and 30 minutes have passed. I have no idea how it could have taken that long. I do find my satnav helps a lot as it predicts the time it takes to do something. I wish I had something like that for real life!

GreenLeafTea Sat 02-Mar-13 02:42:27

Ps I'm the sort if person who is 10 to 20 minutes late. My sil is often 1 to 2 hours late. That does amaze me a bit. The last time she came for lunch. She wanted to come at 1pm which was late for our lunch as my kids are small. I ended up just feeding them at 1.30 because theyvwere starving. My husband thought I was being rude but they didn't arrive until after 2.30pm.

detoxlatte Sat 02-Mar-13 03:54:48

Greenleaf in your supermarket example, do you think this is because in your head, stopping in to pick up a few things is just 'a little thing' which shouldn't take long? Ie it's just a small task in a day of more interesting and pressing stuff, just needs to be got out of the way quickly so you allocate, say, 10 mins to it?

I ask because your paragraph really resonates with me in the context of a friend. She is always, always late and it took years for me to figure out that her concept of time was based on what she wanted her day to look like rather than what it did actually look like.

In her case it was also coupled with a somewhat misplaced sense of the level of glamour in her life, which at the time was actually no less mundane than that of the rest of us!

ChaoticisasChaoticdoes Sat 02-Mar-13 07:55:20

Why McNewpants? If you plan your journey and check the timetables you should not have to be late!

I waited 35 minutes for a bus that runs every 15 minutes once. Although that was a longer time than usual I've often turned out for a bus only to find it turns up 10 to 15 minutes after the alloted time, usually followed by the next bus.

Despite that though I still manage to be on time most of the time, I hate been late. I'm lucky in that my friends tend to turn up on time so if they are running late there usually is a genuine reason for it. That doesn't bother me, it happens to us all but someone who was constantly late would really annoy me.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 09:16:25

Oh cry me a fucking river, those of you that are posting on here admitting you are persistently late and that you can't 'gauge time' or you 'can't help it'. It's rudeness and you should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves and grow up! Why should everyone else have to make allowances for you because it's 'just the way you are'

I agree with everything laqueen has said. Late people think the world revolves around them and that they can merrily plod along doing as they wish, when they wish, bugger anyone else. It's those same people that then tell everyone how 'busy' they are and think their lives are harder than anyone else's.

I had one friend that got later and later every time we met. 90 minutes at our last meet! The problem is that we'd always meet with the kids at soft play, and my kids were excited and wanted to play, do I couldn't just go home when she didn't show up. She is now an ex friend; as well as lateness she is a very selfish person in many ways.

luanmahi Sat 02-Mar-13 10:17:06

There's no doubt selfish people do exist and I myself have an ex-friend who is ex because se was very selfish and she was one of those people who was always on time for everything. They are two separate personality traits. As I said, I have a number of ways that I "trick" myself into being on time as I hate the feeling when you're the last one to walk into a room and everyone looks at you and I generally am on time now (although I was terrible when I was younger) and the only person I inconvenience is myself. My ability to gauge time isn't any better but my ability to manage this about myself is. I think to presume that because someone is disorganised that they're also self-centred and bad mannered is a bit much. Some people very well might be but one is not necessarily a symptom of the other.

LaQueen Sat 02-Mar-13 10:34:49

Tallulah yes, you have described a very common symptom of habitually UP people.

If we need to be somewhere at 8pm, and the journey will take 20 mins...DH considers all the minutes up to 8pm as his time, in which he can do as he wants...it's only when the clock ticks over to 8pm, exactly, that he then considers it's time to get to the place we're going.

I simply do not understand this mind set, I really don't. It's like UP people genuinely can't factor in travel time, or anything. It's like there are only 2 distinct states of being

1. Their time, doing what they want...

2. The time where they need to meet someone else

And, they can't seem to imagine that there needs to be a separate slice of time alloted, getting from No. 1...to No. 2.

LaQueen Sat 02-Mar-13 10:37:53

I agree Murphy if habitually late people were informed, that if they could be at X, on the dot of 9am, and they'd be handed a cheque for a million quid...they'd damned well be there, on the dot.

But, back in the Real World, because habitually late people are essentially self centered, and selfish...there is nothing more pressing for them, than doing what they want to do, when they want to do it.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 10:43:15

Luan, every habitually later person I have ever known has been selfish and self centred, creating dramas and obstacles constantly. The friend I mentioned up thread is selfish in several ways; persistent lateness with no apology and almost an incredulous attitude when she realises others haven't waited for her before buying drinks/ordering a meal/going into a play centre (yep she expected me to wait outside one with 3 kids in tow for up to an hour). Selfish in that she expected others to pay for her drinks all the time, and to do favours for her, but not giving anything to the friendship at all, except stories of how busy and stressed she was.

limitedperiodonly Sat 02-Mar-13 10:46:39

grin at this massive conspiracy by latecomers to disrespect the punctual.

They don't plan to piss you off. They don't plan anything, that's why they're always late.

I have a friend who always just has to do something. It was infuriating at first because I relied on her to be on time. But now I know what she's like that would be pretty daft of me.

We don't meet anywhere time-sensitive any more. Last time we went out we went to the cinema. She was late. I went in. When the film finished we found each other and carried on to a restaurant and had a nice time.

I could have a hissy fit and drop her but then I'd lose a really good friend.

MrsSchadenfreude Sat 02-Mar-13 10:47:01

It drives me insane as well. Particularly if I have invited people to dinner - I have invited you for dinner, I have made an effort, please be punctual. One friend turned up nearly two hours late. We had eaten when she arrived, and she had some lame excuse that she "hadn't realised I was cooking." It got to the stage where we were all hungry and I couldn't wait any longer. I'd phoned her earlier and she was always "just leaving." When clearly she wasn't.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 10:55:28

No one has mentioned conspiracy, limited. It's bloody rude though. Hence lots of us choose not to be friends with 'late' types

anonacfr Sat 02-Mar-13 11:02:09

Actually I had a friend who used to deliberately be late every time we met for drinks. Usually about 15-30 minutes or so but she admitted it to me once.
She basically said her it was 'her thing'. I think she thought it made her look quirky and interesting or something.

We basically used the time to have an extra drink and bitch about her.

limitedperiodonly Sat 02-Mar-13 11:18:27

So don't be friends with them, then.

Infuriating though her lateness is, my friend is still worth something to me, so I use my better organisational skills to counter her shit ones. Otherwise I'd be setting myself up for disappointment every time and that would be stupid of me, no one else.

She's invited me to a party tonight. I've turned it down because I know she'll leave home about the time we're supposed to be there, get to me about 45 minutes later having hoped the journey will take about 15 minutes because she won't have factored in walking to and from the stations and waiting for the train. Then we'll set off and arrive nearly two hours late and I'll find out it's a sit-down meal and everyone hates us.

I'll see her tomorrow night because she's having some friends to her house and she'll have to wait for me.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 11:24:15

I'm not, limited :-) as I said in 2 posts further up thread!

PuppyMonkey Sat 02-Mar-13 11:26:46

I had a friend once ( no longer) who was always late, or when I lived with her she would keep me hanging on for ages before we'd go out to pub or something.

I used to visit her in Manchester and catch the bus up, telling her what time bus would arrive. She'd leave me waiting at bus station on my own for an hour (this was before mobiles). Eventually I'd go find a pay phone to ring her house and shed answer to say she was just chatting with her brother and would leave now to get me.confused it was like I didn't matter to her.

She had quite a high powered job. She was never late for work. hmm

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 11:36:04

Puppy, that is exactly what my ex friend was like. We'd always meet at a location far easier for her to get to, with a shorter travelling time to hers. Yet I'd arrive, she wouldn't be there and I'd phone her and she'd say 'just tidying up and going to have a cup of tea then I'll start getting the kids in the car'.

Which basically meant 'you are not important, I will come in my own time and you can just wait'

limitedperiodonly Sat 02-Mar-13 11:37:13

I'd bet £1 million on my friend being late for that million pound cheque grin.

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 11:38:38

My children have both been diagnosed with dyspraxia and I have read up on it a lot. I really do think some peope have a real problem with concepts of time and planning and organisation. This def applies to me. Also, with me, an element of anxiety and OCD at play. To those who are offended it's really not meant maliciously. It's prob not about you at all. Having said that, although I struggle to be on time it's by mins rather than hours, that's a whole other ballgame.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 11:39:00

Limited, how does your friend manage to hold down jobs? Catch flights? Attend doctors and dentist appointments? She must be capable of being on time sometimes!

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 11:40:20

Murphy, it's a constant battle to be on time for things like that.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 11:43:35

But most late people do still manage to do it on time, as they know there will be consequences if they dont

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 11:49:05

Yeah but for social things maybe they are more relaxed and then things get out if control. Also when you think of it, habitually late people have limited experience of being kept waiting so don't know what it's like!

TandB Sat 02-Mar-13 11:57:51

I twice had housemates who faffed about getting ready for so long that we'd finish up not actually going out.

One was at university and it was quite obvious that she'd changed her mind about going out but didn't want to admit it because everyone else was ready, so she'd just hedge and dawdle and find some "urgent" task that needed doing (on one occasion it was fixing an unfixable hair-clip that she just had to wear) before she could go out. If there was more than one other of us going out, we used to just go without her, but if it was just one of us and her, you'd be a bit stuck and finish up giving up.

The other was a girl I lived with when I first started work. She'd genuinely intend to go out, but would then get completely lost in the getting-ready process - multiple outfit changes, makeup, hair washing. Before you knew it two hours had passed and you would only be getting to the pub in time for last orders.

It was the most spectacularly frustrating thing ever. With the second girl I just stopped going out with her at all.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 12:00:02

I always think that no matter how busy or hectic someone's life is, people always manage to see people that they want to, and they always manage to be on time for people they truly want to see/things they want to do.

Dubjackeen Sat 02-Mar-13 12:13:32

I have a friend like this. We don't meet up much any more. We were going away for a weekend once. She suggested we meet at 11 a.m at our destination. I had a much longer journey than she had. I knew I would end up breaking my neck to be there at 11, and she would arrive late anyway. I said let's make it 2 p.m. She was still late. This person is aways on time for work, flights etc. I copped on after a few times of waiting for her,and started to suggest meeting,for example,in a bookshop,where I could happily browse,rather than a cold street corner where she would have suggested we meet. I don't know if it is a mind game,on her part. We seldom arrange to meet now. I genuinely don't understand people saying they don't know how to allocate time,e.g.to factor in walking to and from a bus/ train station etc. That is not a dig at any of the posters here. I genuinely don't understand it. For those who say it's rude to be early,I am always early but wouldn't dream of barging in on someone earlier than they expected me to call. I didn't mean this to turn into a diatribe blush. In summary,anyone can get held up or be delayed,but habitual lateness is bad manners,in my opinion.

SanityClause Sat 02-Mar-13 12:18:15

Lateness is rude, but mooning is ruder. Definitely!

limitedperiodonly Sat 02-Mar-13 12:24:06

murphy she has a high-powered job which makes her morning time-keeping at work worse because there are only two people above her and they're not bothered about what time she gets in.

She stays very late so as far they're concerned the work gets done.

She was late for a meeting with one of them recently which didn't go down well but she was able to say she'd been very busy when I'm pretty sure she'd been faffing about.

We used to work together but her lateness didn't affect me. Drove her line manager nuts though. If it had affected me I freely admit that we wouldn't be friends today. But it didn't, so we are.

She's been late for meetings, trains, planes. In one job she was definitely managed out. I don't blame the company but I'm not going to bring it to her attention either. Deep down, she must know, but it's her business, not mine.

There are people like the one anonacfr knew who are deliberately late as a power trip. But the vast majority of latecomers are late because they are bad organisers/procrastinators/people pleasers even.

The reason I know is because I used to be late all the time too. I'm mostly not now and I changed for completely selfish reasons. I was fed up with people not taking me seriously (my fault) and sick of rushing about in a sweat and apologising to people all the time.

It doesn't really matter why I changed. I'm not late (mostly) and people aren't pissed off with me any more. I've also learned that some people who pride themselves on never being late aren't being entirely truthful. They're just earlier than I used to be.

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 12:25:20

That's profound Sanity grin

WorriedTeenMum Sat 02-Mar-13 13:19:24

I used to work as a trainer so saw all sorts of lateness:

- the forgetful late arriver, they mean well but have forgotten that there is a training session, where it is, what to bring. These people arrive late panicing and shedding all the things they forgot and went back for

- the punctual unpunctual, they set off from their desks at the time they were due to arrive at the meeting room having not factored in how long it takes to walk to the meeting room or how long the lift will take to arrive. These people walk in calmly, but 10 minutes late.

- the surprised unpunctual who will be ready to attend the training session 5 minutes ahead of time but will then stop to complete a task which takes 15 minutes. These people are always surprised that they are late.

However the worst offenders are the arrogant late arrivers. These people will arrive after everyone else has settled they will bustle in with a kind of ta daa!! type gesture. They will then greet various colleagues, noisily rootle through bags, fail to find pens, pencils and noisily ask to borrow these.

There is a toasty place in hell reserved for these people.

Funnily enough, as observed upstream, punctuality is the courtesy of kings. The senior boss (god's god) will arrive punctually, sit quietly and will write notes with a discrete but expensive pen in a bound notebook!

makemineamalibuandpineapple Sat 02-Mar-13 15:17:02

I remember when I was at school I used to walk to school with this girl who lived round the corner from me. Every morning, without fail, I would knock on the door at the appointed time, the door would open and either her or her mum would say "just a minute". I would be left standing there for up to 20 minutes angry One day, I had had enough of this and just walked to school without her. She then went crying to the teacher (we were 11/12) and I got told off confused.

So in answer to your question OP, yes lateness is the rudest thing!!

LaQueen Sat 02-Mar-13 15:43:44

"at this massive conspiracy by latecomers to disrespect the punctual."

Limited no one has mentioned a conspiracy, have they? I certainly don't think UP conspire in anyway to be disrespectful? Because that would indicate an active intention to be late...which isn't the case.

The case is that UP just are disrespectful, in their attitude towards others. They don't conspire to be that way, they just are that way.

LaQueen Sat 02-Mar-13 15:47:28

"So don't be friends with them, then."

Ah, you see I'm just not that generous, or accomodating as a person. I have plenty of friends who are punctual, and who aren't so annoyingly self-centered, and selfish.

So, with them I don't have to knit myself up into knots trying to second guess them.

So, I spend my time with them smile

LaQueen Sat 02-Mar-13 15:52:21

Ooops, sorry - my point above was to limited in that I admire her for being so forgiving/generous, and tolerating her friend's lateness because she valued the friendship, still.

But, I couldn't value anyone's friendship, if they differed so much to me, on something I consider pretty fundemental which is mutal respect and shared values etc.

GreenLeafTea Sat 02-Mar-13 16:01:35

detoxlatte I'm a sahm so my life definitely isn't glamorous but I find shopping with my kids in tow very stressful so I will try and squeeze running in to buy milk between work and nursery pick up as it is just so much easier than dragging two tired kids around the supermarket. Then I end up being 5 minutes late for pick up but nursery don't seem bothered so I am grateful for their understanding.

I had a job before where they put a huge emphasis on punctuality and I found it so stressful I often couldn't sleep the night before for worrying. My son in particular the more I try and rush him in the morning the slower he goes and it just turns into a nightmare.

It really doesn't bother me if friends are late. I found it odd that my mil used to get so stressed out if I was even a few minutes late as my parents were much more flexible about meeting times. My mil is one of those people who will arrive 40 minutes early and that stresses me put as im usually running around like crazy getting dressed and tidied up.

My husband is never late but he also has an aversion to switching off lights when he's finished and that drives me crazy. I guess different people are bothered by different things.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 16:40:24

I am actually laughing at greenleaftea being aghast that a boss actually wanted her to be punctual!

Isn't that the general idea of a job; that you work the working hours specified by the company? What if you need to relieve a colleague so they can leave after their shift? Why shouldn't work expect you in on time?

And I think it's really rude to be repeatedly late to pick up your child. Did you not know nursery staff often earn minimum wage and often don't get paid extra if they have to stay late with children that are picked up late?

Living in a bubble of self or what!?

Noodled Sat 02-Mar-13 17:04:46

Aah limited I could be your friendsmile being often a bit late means my good friends tend to be a self reliant and tolerant bunch.

Why am I often late? A bf baby who I will feed rather than leave to cry, meetings to get to that start at half six which is usually ok but sometimes dh arrives around then due to traffic. I often get lost, I give extra time for this but I can get really lost! My vehicle doesn't fit in multi storey carparks so parking can be an issue too. My days are very full with not a lot of slack (dh has health issues at moment so can't do some of the helpful things he would usually do) so the dog treading in another dog's poo or the toddler having an accident as we were leaving for school means we threaten lateness.

I am always apologetic, I wouldn't expect anyone to wait for me and will say that I will be possibly late when I know timings are tight. I am dyspraxic which explains the travel issues maybe but isn't really much of a problem. Fewer children, dogs, a healthy husband and a bit of local childcare and I would be back to punctual!

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 17:08:55

Those that won't tolerate lateness are self reliant and tolerant too, Noodled. We just refuse to accept disrespectful behaviour.

The things you have described could, and do, happen to anyone. Yet many many people still manage to achieve punctuality.

It's very amusing that those of you on this thread that are always late are full of excuses and reasons as to why your lives are harder than anyone else's therefore it's somehow ok for you to be late. Everyone has things that crop up at times. Everyone is tight for time sometimes. Everyone gets lost sometimes. But not every single time they go anywhere.

WorriedTeenMum Sat 02-Mar-13 17:23:02

I used to work in an office with flats opposite where some of the office workers lived - literally 200m from the front door of the offices. Every morning I would see the same people wandering out of the flats down the drive to the office front door late!.

What excuse did they use for goodness sake? There was congestion on the landing? A contraflow on the stairs? The wrong sort of bread in the toaster?

I really despaired of these people!

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 17:35:14

Oooh Murphy, you do sound like a crosspatch sad

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 17:42:48

Yes flanged, it does make me cross when people have bad manners and are selfish and try to justify it

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 17:47:43

Flangled, I take it you are a late person? Anyone who is not persistently late sees lateness for the rude habit that it is. Those that are late regularly seem to think that anyone who won't put up with it are mean and intolerant, hence your patronising use of 'crosspatch'

Perhaps all late people should be friends then they can out-late each other!

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 17:53:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

WingDefence Sat 02-Mar-13 18:04:19

My brother and SIL are always late. They were late for my DH's surprise birthday party last year - everyone else from our family (50 people) were on time I.e. there before DH and I walked into the restaurant yet my brother and family were 20 mins late. Even though I'd told them repeatedly what time they had to be there.

But worse than that, the two of them were late for my (close) aunt's funeral last week. The rest of us immediate family (uncles, aunts, cousins etc) met at my uncle's house for the funeral procession at 11am to leave at 11:30. The funeral started at the crematorium at 12.

They weren't at the house. They weren't waiting for us as the coffin and family cars arrived. My DPs and I stood at the front of the chapel, saving them seats as everyone else came in - it was standing room only and there were 150+ people there. The doors closed and the service started and my DPs were extremely upset that my brother had apparently not made it.

We found out after the service that they arrived 15 mins into the 45 min service. They made excuses about not knowing where the crematorium was but basically hadn't been bothered to look it up. They had had instructions about where to go and to get there early if not coming to the house first to park because so many people were coming. It meant that throughout the service, my DPs and I were half thinking at all times about how we couldn't believe they had been late even for this. I can't forgive them sad

slatternlymother Sat 02-Mar-13 18:31:56

Wow! So pleased to see this thread still going and that I'm not alone!

wingdefence I'm so sorry for your loss last week, and you're right. Your DB and SIL are thoughtless, thoughtless people sad I hope your DP's are alright? FWIW, I would struggle to get over that myself.

I just don't think there's any excuse; those perpetually late people are adults. Worse, their children will pick up these habits.

And yes, whilst they might not mean it to come across this way, it smacks of 'my time is more valuable than yours'. It does.

slatternlymother Sat 02-Mar-13 18:33:21

And I'm happy to be a 'crosspatch' on this one.

<resolute>

Noodled Sat 02-Mar-13 18:42:19

Hey bit late replying here murphy...apologies and all, I was just... (disrespecting the angry person with highly punctual friends)

For the record I never claimed to have a life harder than anyone else's. I just gave some reasons why I am sometime a bit late. I suspect lots is attitudinal I take on too much but like too, the three voluntary roles I do prefer to have me a bit late than not at all. Work keeps encroaching further than I plan for it to do so but who wants to turn it down. And happily I have lots of late friends with busy chaotic happy lives, they aren't presumptuous and selfish they are fab not least because I look comparatively efficientsmile

Winged- late for a funeral is awful though, that is horridsad

DontmindifIdo Sat 02-Mar-13 19:04:44

BTW - I have learned that with people who are habitually late (including myself until I learned better!), is not to talk about when you need to be somewhere, but when you need to get in the car.

DH finds this hard, I can't cope very well with him saying "we need to be at X place at Y time" I need to be told "You have to be in the car for Z time" if he says "it's 20 minutes to where we need to go and we need to be there for 8" I have to stop and think "that means I have to be in the car for 7:40pm at the latest", then "So I want to allow 10 minutes to do get changed, 10 minutes to do my make up and 5 minutes for faffing, so I need to start getting ready at 7:15pm." The addition of "5 minutes for faffing" has really revolutionised my life!

For non-late people, this wouldn't take sitting down and thinking about, it's a given if you need t be somewhere that's a 20 minute drive away at 8pm, you need to be in a car that's backing off the drive at 7:40pm. For a 'naturally late' person like me (with a late for everything mother), you have to think that's the time you need to leave.

Not thinking about arrival times but departure can make all the difference. (LeQueen, stop telling your DH what time he needs to be somewhere, just tell him the time he needs to leave the house.)

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 19:08:42

What self pity? I was only saying it's only you that its harming by being annoyed as the late person is probabkly oblivious to how much it upsets you.

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 19:14:09

What does google say about crosspatch, I though it was just another term for mildly grumpy?

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 19:27:55

I don't tolerate it in friendships flangledoodle, hence I don't have any late friends, as I've said previously on this thread. Only someone incredibly thick, self-absorbed, and selfish would think that it is acceptable to be persistently late.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 19:29:51

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 19:36:08

Really didn't mean to upset you Murphy, was just pointing out that you seemed to be getting very hot under the collar on this one. Find it hard to see what is so bad about it but then again being a late person means that I've rarely been on the receiving end.

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 19:41:49

Am actually not often late, just find it a.battle to be on time.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 19:46:14

Believe me, it is very irritating when you've taken the time to get ready, get your children ready, and travel to meet someone and they don't even have the courtesy to try to be on time. I really am quite gobsmacked that you don't see what's bad about it. Would you really have the same view if you'd waited for someone for an hour or more having rushed to get ready and make it in time yourself? Or if you'd taken the time and trouble to cook a meal for someone and they turned up an hour late so that the meal was ruined?

It is generally only late people that seem to think it really isn't that big a deal. Because they are excusing their behaviour and justifying it. Lateness is rude.

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 19:53:39

As I said am usually on time. can't honestly say I've ever been kept waiting that long. Prob wouldn't wait. Was kept waiting for a boyfriend for an hour and a half once (was 16 at the time) then gave up and went home. It was probably a sign....

dimsum123 Sat 02-Mar-13 20:00:30

Murphy fwiw I totally agree with you on everything.

I recently had to let go of a friend who is always late. I think she likes the idea of people adoring her enough to be willing to wait around for her and also doesn't like waiting alone so I would always end up waiting for her. She doesn't even bother texting to say she's running late and says she's got too many problems in her life already to be worrying about trying to get somewhere on time.

I also have loads of problems in my life and yet somehow or other I always manage to be on time.

I do think it's pathetic that a grown woman cannot organise herself to be somewhere on time.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 20:02:38

So it clearly did annoy you then if you went home? If it wasn't that big a deal, as you've insinuated on this thread, you'd have just waited and waited willingly, surely.....

I have had bad experiences as I had one ex 'friend' who repeatedly took the mickey, being very late when I'd gone to great effort to meet up with her, at a time when I had a lot more going on in my life than she did, and probably if we were to divvy it all up, had more reasons to be late than her. But I never was.

To some it may not be a big deal, but to lots of us it is a big deal. As Laqueen has said, if someone is repeatedly late it does show a lack of respect from the late person, and I refuse to be friends with anyone who doesn't share my values. I have better things to do with my time than sit around in playcentres waiting whilst my friend sits at home having a cup of tea, tidying up and doing other stuff at leisure, when I could have spent that extra time at my house having a cuppa and tidying up.

If refusing to tolerate that kind of thing makes you think I'm a 'crosspatch' or 'hot under the collar' then so be it. I think though that most punctual, considerate people will share my view though and will view lateness as a big deal. It's only the late ones that think it's no big deal and as I said that's because they are trying to justify their behaviour

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 20:03:25

dimsum, I don't blame you for ditching that friend. She sounds totally self absorbed and disrespectful.

flangledoodle Sat 02-Mar-13 20:13:08

Murphy, do you know what, much as it pains me I think you are probably right. Find it v hard to be on time so I try to justify it and fail to acknowledge how irritating my behavoiur is. You win. Re; the boyfriend....he just wasn't that into me. Not that it hurt or anything it was only 25 yrs ago.....

DontmindifIdo Sat 02-Mar-13 20:24:12

Greenleaf - do you think you have more of a bad habit of thinking something will only take 10 minutes because you only have 10 minutes and you want to do it? You want to get this thing off your list regardless of if you actually have enough time. Like the popping to the shops before nursery pick up, you have 10 minutes so you are trying to think which of your 'to do' list you can squeeze into that spare 10 minutes, rather than accepting there's nothing on your to do list you can do in that time and pick your DCs up 10 minutes early, you decide instead to try to pick the one that takes the least time and pretend to yourself you can get it done in time.

Perhaps saying to yourself "It's ok to be early or to do nothing in a spare 10 minutes rather than trying to do a 20 minute job in that time". Perhaps thinking that your priority shouldn't be 'trying to do as much as possible' but trying to do the things you have to do. (And while nursery might be ok to your face, do you not think it might be a little upsetting for your DCs to see all the other mummies and daddies arrive, but not theres until it's late?)

BTW - I was hideously late for meeting a friend today, however, I checked on my sat nav last night to her new house and it said average journey time 45 minutes. I decided I had to leave at 9:30am to be there for 10:30am (thinking that would allow me to be held up/find a parking space if her new road was a busy one, and still be there on time - and we were all in the car and backing off the drive at 9:30am) then horrible traffic meant I was delayed until 11:15am. but as I'm now not normally late, she was fine about it. If you are always 5 minutes late, being a lot more late makes your excuse look unbelievable, if you are normally on time then people cut you more slack on the rare occasion you really are unavoidably late. For a lot of the 'late' people on here, they would have in the best case, have planned to leave at 9:45am, possibly that meaning to them walking downstairs, but not allowing for coats, shoes, checking they had everything they needed for the journey, putting DCs in car seats, making sure htey had petrol etc.

DontmindifIdo Sat 02-Mar-13 20:30:57

Also, I've noticed a lot of late people see deadlines as a target, not a limit. So if you need to pick up from nursery or hand in a piece of coursework, or be at an airport for a set time, they plan to arrive at that time at the earliest , never thinking about being 'on time' is the latest they should arrive. The aim for the exact time, not aiming for 10minutes before. The idea that arriving early is also arriving on time doesn't go in. That if it's a 10 minute walk, you can leave 15 minutes before if you are ready, not leave 10 minutes before you need to be somewhere so having 5 minutes to fill (usually filling with something that takes just over the 5 minutes so now are a little late). That giving themselves an extra 5 minutes to walk there isn't a 'waste' of time.

ByTheWay1 Sat 02-Mar-13 21:13:26

Doesn't anyone else just leave if someone is late?? I do - it doesn't happen often now..... You have 15 min maximum beyond allotted time to get there , if not I eat/go into the film/carry on with my day.....

I am an awkward git, I know, I also refuse to have a mobile phone - so it takes effort to let me know if they will be late - so people generally turn up on time - if not, no great loss, I either won't be there, or will have started without them.

PigeonPie Sat 02-Mar-13 21:13:30

What I don't understand are the parents who are habitually late getting their children to school.

There are a number of the same parents I see day after day coming to school with children in tow when I'm on my way home having dropped mine off.

Now I know there are some who do it with agreement with school because of special needs etc, but this can't be so for all I see.

It must be so distressing for the children to be always late.

Murphy0510 Sat 02-Mar-13 21:15:41

I agree, PigeonPie; there are some parents at my DC's school that are late day after day, week after week, looking frazzled as if it's just so much harder for them than for anyone else.

KlarkyKat Sat 02-Mar-13 21:20:14

I hate lateness but seem to have a few friends who I allow to get away with it. I adjust my plans to account for them but even then they sometimes shock me with their thoughtlessness.

It just means I see less of them then I would like because I can't stand to be let down too often!

PigeonPie Sat 02-Mar-13 21:20:34

There's one here who makes a nervous laugh and says 'late again' as she passes me, but she doesn't appear to be in any hurry and is never telling her DC to hurry up as I would be. Her mother has said she's just very laid back.

dimsum123 Sat 02-Mar-13 21:31:34

Murphy you have said exactly what i want to say.

Yes that friend is very selfish and self absorbed. Her lateness has always annoyed me but I suppose I was more tolerant years ago and never said anything. She has also recently got into hot water at work for being late or even not turning up on occasion. But she won't change. She just thinks her boss is being mean and horrible for pulling her up on her lateness and absence.

Am wondering now why I was ever friends with her at all.....

lisianthus Sat 02-Mar-13 22:44:26

As LaQueen mentioned upthread, there was an excellent thread on this last year which I found really useful, as it went right into what the Unpunctual People (UP) thought when they are getting ready for things, so you could see where the differences were to the way Punctual People think.

One of the interesting things stated on that thread was about self-sabotage. There is usually a point in your getting ready for things where an UP unconsciously decides to be late for something. If you keep this in mind, it really helps your efforts to be on time. When you are doing that extra thing that isn't actually necessary to get you out the door, you are deciding that this thing is more important than the person waiting for you at the other end.

It is unconscious, so the UP will swear that they were rushing to get there, but for some reason they don't actually WANT to get there in time enough to do what it takes to get there on time. Even if they are one of those people who can't tell how much time is passing, that shouldn't matter if they allow enough time for the things necessary to get out the door then just do those things.

WorriedTeenMum Sat 02-Mar-13 23:16:22

I dont think that the people who try to cram a quart of jobs into a pint pot of time are always self-sabotaging to be deliberately late. Sometimes I think that there is an element of being demonstrably busy.

My DM used to do this. A trip (30 minutes) to see us would contain many detours and diversions on the way. She would then arrive breathless and very late having just had to do this and that on the way. I think she found this busyness validating.

Strangely in the last couple of years she has slowed down a lot though declining health and at the same time has become more punctual!

detoxlatte Sat 02-Mar-13 23:22:21

I hear you, Greenleaf, not quite the thought process I had in mind (ie my friend's). But, it sounds to me like you don't fall into the "chronically and habitually late" category, more like a few minutes late for this or that, which I personally don't have a problem with.

Not referencing Greenleaf here now, there are other posters on this thread who pull the 'my life is so busy' card to justify their lateness, including somewhere a reference to voluntary work being the reason for the busy life. I'm afraid this is what really, really gets to me.

If your life is so full and busy that you prevent other people from doing what they need to do (in their busy and full lives) by wasting their time by being late, YOU ARE TAKING ON TOO MUCH. And just because it's voluntary work, doesn't make it any better. You decided to devote your time to the cause, I did not decide to devote my time to your cause.

We would all like to pack 25 hours worth of life into 24 hours, but that extra hour has to come from somewhere. Late people force other people to give them that extra hour. That is what is so completely disrespectful about lateness.

bytheway I think increased mobile phone ownership has increased unpunctuality. UP can now absolve themselves of guilt by texting to say they are running late. Previously they would have had the stress of knowing someone was waiting for them and wondering where they are.

Murphy0510 Sun 03-Mar-13 00:26:38

I agree, TravelinColour.

Nothing annoys me more than reaching the meet venue, only to get a text at the time we'd arranged to meet, to say they are 'running late and will be another hour or so'. This happened to me once when meeting up with my SIL, so I just went home and text her to say I wasn't prepared to sit alone in a restaurant for an hour!

GreenLeafTea Sun 03-Mar-13 00:36:19

This is actually quite interesting. I wanted to say I'm not a horrible self-absorbed person but I have a tendency to over-think things and make things more complicated than they have to be. I noticed when my husband was off work recently that he just focuses on one task and does it whereas I'm always trying to do 6 things at once then forgetting things and getting confused and in a way it isn't easier. I think I'm just a bit disorganized really and it is true that other people manage so I should be able to too. Even though I'm constantly trying to be organized. I'm one of those people that if I have to study for an exam I spend so long planning and organizing my study time and writing colour coordinated charts that I never actually get any studying done.

In the case of my mil because she was always so early so if we were supposed to meet at 2pm she would be there at 1.20pm so by the time 2 o'clock came around she had already been waiting 40 minutes so she would call me at 2pm on the dot to ask where I was. I would literally just be around the corner so I found her logic really strange. I hadn't kept her waiting 40 minutes, but in her mind I was so rude. Every time I met her I would be slapping my forehead thinking you have to subtract half an hour off the meeting time. I always forgot. Now my sil is really really late though my mil has eased up a lot on me.

I had another friend who never wanted to agree a meeting time so would just text me when she left her house. I would then have to rush around like crazy getting the kids ready and out the door and end up being late. She would then give me a hard time about being rude but I found it so stressful meeting her because I would be on edge all morning waiting for the text and one time she texted me at 7am. I wasn't even up yet and never checked my phone until later so I was really late and she was mad but what can you do? I tried explaining to her how stressful it was for me but I felt she was very self-absorbed and always wanted to meet on her terms so actually I dropped her as a friend. She didnt have kids by the way so I don't think she understood how you can't just go the second she texted, have to check nappie, take toddler for a wee, get coats on etc.

lisianthus Sun 03-Mar-13 04:11:10

No, WorriedTeenMum, UPs aren't always self-sabotaging, when cramming in "just one more thing", but a large number of those who are surprised that they are late and can't understand how that happened as they were "really trying to be on time seemed to be (on the basis of that thread). If they tried to do that one thing, they would have been on time, but they did it anyway, thus choosing to be late.

lisianthus Sun 03-Mar-13 04:11:56

If they hadn't tried ...

dimsum123 Sun 03-Mar-13 06:51:43

This thread is so interesting.

My UP friend always moaned about another mutual friend. She said the friend would always constantly call her beforehand if they were due to meet and she found it really annoying. But the other friend knew that UP was going to be late so she was trying to put pressure on her to be on time which UP didn't like.

I think my UP friend simply does not like the constraint of having to be somewhere on time and sort of 'rebels' by subconsciously refusing to be on time. She always has an excuse for being late, always blaming some unforseen event (why do these things always happen to her, never to me or other PP?)

This friend has also not married because she doesn't want to lose her freedom and I think she also thinks she has the freedom to turn up to a meet whenever it suits her instead of at the agreed time (so she can pop into a few shops along the way while I have decided not to do such things in order to be on time).

dimsum123 Sun 03-Mar-13 06:58:38

I can see now that I enabled her by not complaining about her lateness for many years. But I think if I did she would have got annoyed with me for getting 'stressed' about her lateness. I should just chill out while she wastes my time while she does other more important things before she turns up to meet me.

rottentomatoes Sun 03-Mar-13 07:58:20

bumping out the spam

DontmindifIdo Sun 03-Mar-13 08:35:26

Green leaf, your meeting you mil story illustrates my point earlier, you agreed to meet at 2pm, on your mind you were aiming to be there at 2pm itself, that getting there earlier would be a 'waste' of time, but mil, as a punctual / early person saw 2pm as the latest time to arrive, that was the deadline. Perhaps start aiming for 10minutes early...

WorriedTeenMum Sun 03-Mar-13 09:02:59

I think that there are different types of lateness.

- There are the people who are late to retain control. They dont want other people telling them when to arrive.
- There are people who are late to dominate a situation. They are the people who walk in to a situation after everyone else making some sort of grand entrance.
- There are the people who are delusionally organsiationally late. They over plan, over organise, they start 3 jobs and then lose track of these three jobs. None of the jobs end up being finished on time.

GreenLeafTea, I think you are the latter sort. You think you are being orgainsed by having lots of jobs on the go but in reality those jobs arent getting finished and in fact are taking longer than doing the jobs sequentially.

Do you look at your jobs for the day and start all of them at the same time?

WorriedTeenMum Sun 03-Mar-13 09:07:10

I think that if you are a very punctual person then a 2pm meet time means 2.00pm. It is quite precise, 2.05pm is late.

At work, if a meeting is due to start at 2.00 then that is the time it starts. Someone walking in at 2.15 is very late.

limitedperiodonly Sun 03-Mar-13 10:37:11

Well spotted Laqueen. No-one used the word conspiracy. Fancy someone making something up, eh?

But as you’ve also spotted, on the whole being late isn’t an intention. People are late because they don’t think, not because they think their time is more important than yours.

So either drop them or make it so they can’t keep you hanging about. I do that with my friend because being late is about her only fault and I’d be cutting off my nose to spite my face if I dropped her.

I don’t think that’s being particularly forgiving or generous. It’s just about being friends.

Zingy123 Sun 03-Mar-13 10:41:31

I hate lateness I think it's incredibly rude. I am always early.

My best friend lives opposite the school and is late every morning and afternoon. The school have complained to her but she doesn't seem to care. I love her with all my heart but I can never rely on her to be on time. In so many other ways she is so caring she is generous with gifts and babysitting for others. She just cannot make it on time any where.

limitedperiodonly Sun 03-Mar-13 10:43:57

Sorry laqueen that was unneccessarily arsey.

Just one of the things my late friend puts up with from me smile

No need for you to

HollaAtMeBaby Sun 03-Mar-13 13:47:36

YABU! Eating McDonald's on public transport is the rudest thing

HollaAtMeBaby Sun 03-Mar-13 15:10:48

I am a reformed UP - punctual most of the time now, even early sometimes! Having a smartphone has helped - was always trying to cram in as much activity as possible and now I know that if I get somewhere early and have spare time I can use it productively, and can get things done on the way to where I'm going as well. Don't really understand the moaning about waiting on a street corner though - who does that? I would always arrange to meet somewhere warm and indoors like a bookshop, or a shopping centre and then you use phones to find each other.

DontmindifIdo Sun 03-Mar-13 15:33:26

LimitedPeriodOnly - it might not be that when being late you think "I'll do X first before going to meet Y because I don't really care about leaving Y waiting" - but you don't think "Should I do X first before meeting Y, do I really have time to do that and still be on time to meet Y because it's more important to meet Y than it is to do X." you are still priortising doing X over meeting Y on time. If you can do both, great, but you are (if not conciously) not really caring that both can't be done in the time allocated so are deciding that meeting Y on time is less important than completing X first. Therefore to Y, it will always look like you thought that they are unimportant compared to your desire to do X first.

And Y person (in this care LaQueen) is right, you don't really think it matters if you are on time for Y, that you might keep them waiting isn't important to you. Because if it was important to you that you were at a set place at a set time, you'd aim to be there before the time you'd agreed to meet them 'just in case'.

You can tell people until you are blue in the face that you care about them, but your actions say that you think getting your other jobs done are far more important.

Lockedout434 Sun 03-Mar-13 16:02:09

Sorry I am late to this thread just bumping to get rid of the football troll

WorriedTeenMum Sun 03-Mar-13 16:14:36

One of the things which works well with DM is giving her more precise times eg rather than saying 'we will see you around 2pm' I say 'we will see you between 2 and 2.30'. This has helped to remove the imprecision.

Now I just have to persuade DH to use this technique for DPiL for whom the words 'about 2pm' mean 'any time after 2pm and before bedtime'.

I dont think that using precise times will make DPiL more punctual but it will mean that I can get on with my life and not bother sitting around waiting for them to turn up.

slatternlymother Sun 03-Mar-13 16:17:30

Football troll?

<misses all the good stuff these days>

LaQueen Sun 03-Mar-13 17:03:45

"I had a job before where they put a huge emphasis on punctuality and I found it so stressful I often couldn't sleep the night before for worrying."

You see, this line makes me laugh. Every job I've had, being punctual was just a given. It really was. And, I've worked as everything from a librarian, to a beauty therapist - so pretty diverse.

LaQueen Sun 03-Mar-13 17:08:38

"Aah limited I could be your friend being often a bit late means my good friends tend to be a self reliant and tolerant bunch."

Noodle I'm damned self reliant. I am the very least needy person you could hope to meet. Just because I am punctual, and expect my friends to show me the same courtesy, doesn't mean I'm needy, and pathetically dependent on them...

If a friend is always running 45 minutes late, and I'm always having to kill those 45 minutes waiting in a cafe/bar...I have every darn right to feel annoyed.

Because, actually I don't especially enjoy waiting around for 45 minutes...not, when I could be using that time much more usefully, doing stuff I actually wanted/needed to do.

You know...in exactly the same way the friend keeping me waiting is using those 45 minutes to do stuff they want/need to do.

EchoBitch Sun 03-Mar-13 17:09:17

Punctuality is important.

And lateness is rude.

But it's not the rudest thing.

EchoBitch Sun 03-Mar-13 17:11:22

If your friend is always running 45 minutes late then stay at home and have a coffee and get to where you are meeting 45 minutes later than planned.

<<shrugs>>

Life's too short.

Murphy0510 Sun 03-Mar-13 17:16:44

Once again I totally agree with laqueen.

Ledkr Sun 03-Mar-13 17:23:31

Dh is late for everything he gets it from pil who are also rudely late due to procrastination.
I'm not perfect and am often cutting it fine but it does my flaming head in.
I just leave now and go.
Last stay ice skating was discussed and thought about for so long that I left with dd and had a good skate!
I half expected them to still be stood in the porch when we got back 3 hrs later.
We are going away for a weekend in may and I fuly expect to have done loads with the kids before they even think of leaving the house.
I'm not wasting my time waiting for them to have yet another drink before I get out.

anonymosity Sun 03-Mar-13 17:24:34

OP I agree with you 100%. I have a 20 minute rule now - if they're not there within that time (or have not contacted to say on the way) I am off (unless of course I'm already at home....

dimsum123 Sun 03-Mar-13 18:01:01

Echo but why should I do that? That simply reinforces the idea that it's ok for the UP to be late.

Despite reading this thread and sort of understanding the mind set of UP I still don't really understand how a grown adult is seemingly unable to tell the time, work out how long to get somewhere and then leave at the right time.

Everyone is late sometimes including me. But how can some people be late ALL THE TIME?

And last time i met my UP and she was late yet again and I told her I was annoyed at her constant lateness, she had the nerve to point out that she hadn't said anything the ONE time I was late in meeting her about a year ago!

dimsum123 Sun 03-Mar-13 18:06:29

I think with my UP friend at least there are psychological problems causing her lateness of which she herself is unaware.

She is completely scatty, messy and disorganised in her life in general and I'm beginning to think her head must be in a complete mess for her life to be the mess it is. And perhaps her continual lateness is the least of her problems.

Murphy0510 Sun 03-Mar-13 18:20:59

I agree with dimsum.

How can these grown adults find it so difficult to be on time?

My ex friend who was always late was also highly disorganised in her life. She 'forgot' to do a primary school application for her youngest child as apparently 'nobody told her' there was a cut off date for applications. Her kids are always late for school. She 'forgets' things like birthday parties her kids are invited to, and 'forgets' to send things into school such ad dinner money and permission slips. It's all always someone else's fault though, never hers!

LaQueen Sun 03-Mar-13 18:36:34

"And, to add Noodle the day you describe, doesn't sound like antyhing out of the ordinary to me...my DDs were born only 54 weeks apart, I had quite nasty SPD, and went back to work part time quite soon after they were born.

So, I promise you I know all about morning stress, and chaos, and last minute hassles...but, even then, I was very, very rarely late.

Because, you see, I always factored in the (very likely) occurance, that there'd be several delays between getting up, and getting out the house with a baby and a toddler in tow.

So, if I was meeting friends at 9.30am, say, then my morning routine would typically have a ready-built-in, extra 20 minutes, or so...to cover most delays (last minute epic poo in nappy...inability to locate car-keys...DD1 spilling milk all over herself...etc, etc...)

This extra, 20 minutes Buffer Time meant I would get up earlier, than usual, and it would mean I would probably be up slightly later the night before, organising stuff, packing the nappy bag, checking buggy was in boot, etc.

EchoBitch Sun 03-Mar-13 18:45:28

dinsum

Then have a word about lateness or chuck your friend.

EchoBitch Sun 03-Mar-13 18:46:27

What's a UP?

LaQueen Sun 03-Mar-13 18:51:31

"If your friend is always running 45 minutes late then stay at home and have a coffee and get to where you are meeting 45 minutes later than planned.

<<shrugs>>

Life's too short."

Echo

Exacty, life is too short. Everyone has their own life to lead, everyone has stuff to do.

So, if I know I'm meeting Y at 10.00am on Wednesday, I plan my day around that meeting.

I might decide to drop something off en-route to meeting Y...because that would kill 2 birds with one stone...I might decide to do some shopping after meeting Y...I might arrange 2-3 different errands arounf the fact that I'm meeting Y at 10.00am.

And, less we forget Y, herself, has agreed to meet at 10.00am...no one held a gun to her head. She could have said 10.30am...she could have said 11.00am.

But, no she agreed to 10.00am.

So why the fuck should my plans for my day get buggered around, simply because Y can't arrive at the time she specified???

She rocks up an hour late...meaning, my plans to fit in some necessary shopping later, are now out the window - because I have an appointment at the dentist at 1.30pm.

Or...if I know I'm meeting Y at 10.00am on Tuesday, should I not be able to make any other plans for most of Tuesday, then...? Somehow, Y should be allowed to squeeze in her bit of shopping as it suits her, but I can't...Because, hey, you know...Y is just this free spirit, who should be allowed to flit in and flit out she pleases, and sod everyone else's plan/expectations.

No. I don't think so.

EchoBitch Sun 03-Mar-13 18:54:36

Cripes,

YOLO

Get a life.

Oh sorry,you've got one.

hmm

EchoBitch Sun 03-Mar-13 18:57:46

If your pal is that much of a drag and late all the time......


Don't arrange to meet her.

You don't have to fall out,just don't arrange to meet her.

Your time is expensive.wink

LaQueen Sun 03-Mar-13 18:57:54

Looking back, I've been a footlosse, and fancy free singleton, working full time...I have been a SAHM...I have worked part time with 2 toddlers...I have worked full time with 2 toddlers...there have been times when DH has worked away all week...there have been times when he's worked from home all week...I have commuted for 1.5 hours to work...I have commuted 120 yards to work...

Through all of these changes of routine/status/jobs/location I am always, always punctual.

Being punctual has nothing to do with the life I lead...it has everything to do with the person I am.

LaQueen Sun 03-Mar-13 18:59:18

Echo you're right, I very quickly cull the friend. I never, ever argue or fall out...they're just quietlly culled, and I'm never free to meet up with them again smile

LaQueen Sun 03-Mar-13 19:00:25

Limited no worries smile

EchoBitch Sun 03-Mar-13 19:09:34

We have friends who are always late.

But i like them.

It doesn't mean they hate me it just means they are CUNTS.

grin

Portofino Sun 03-Mar-13 20:22:18

I am guessing you never need rely on public transport LaQueen ;-)

Portofino Sun 03-Mar-13 20:24:33

I always seem to be late, or have childcare problems or work issues. I hope my friends don't hate me or dump me for that - though I appreciate it can be frustrating.....

Why do people always blame public transport?

I have only owned a vehicle since October. Public transport does not make me late in the same way as everyone else. In fact, it is generally more predictable; there's a timetable, and no hassle with parking, for a start.

Noodled Sun 03-Mar-13 21:11:12

Exactly echosmile

Laqueen,yeah I didn't explain so well. The lateness is inbuilt to the timetable. We are newish to this area and the schools full thus have two different ones to get to. So child one is on time and child two is late for nursery, sometimes I then have a meeting at 9.30 back at the first school. Even on our best times I can't quite make it! The meeting doesn't wait and I just slide in.

Actually everything is ordered the night before, I get up dog walk, do hens, bf endlessly, do children, do shoes and bf some more before we go. Last week I was bitten by another dog one morning and on a different day spent twenty horrid mins cleaning dog shit off my dogs foot and body where it had flicked... We only got to school as the bell rang but made it technically.

I have been a governor before and after no one came forward to fill the gap at the new school the head asked if I would be one again, I said 6.30 was difficult he said come when you can so I do. Dh gets home between 5.45 and 6.45 pm... This tues meeting ends at half eight the same time I am due at the next meeting, I have sent apologies ahead but will be a bit late.

The idea of friends being 45 mins late or not texting etc is extraordinary...that isn't late that's non attendance. That said a few mins here or there doesn't bother me or my friends at all. My very best friend is a twenty mns early person, I love it when I arrive first to oyr meetings but it doesn't happen often...

Travel is fucked by my dyspraxia to some degree, I spent twenty mns driving past a restaurant last week whilst being lost and confused, it wasn't quite where I thought and sat nav felt the same. I eat here a couple of times a year and usually find it, I was five mins late. My friends had a drink waiting -they like me and don't find me disrespectful just daft.

As for the late attendees at school, clearly they do find it harder than some. There are different bits of life we all suck at. A friend kept me waiting last month because her forties hair do needed repining! It mattered to her so whilst I can't imagine caring less pin it up first friend. An old friend was so thoroughly late we used to tell her times an hour behind meet up time, she was scatty, generous and funny. Sadly she died young and was awfully early for that appointment... Life is too short to have people in your life who are twats but not all latecomers are arses.

LaQueen Sun 03-Mar-13 21:13:41

Porto yep, I most certainly have relied on buses, in my time. I've gone for months, without a car. Never had a problem with buses.

I suspect that it's only UP who have regular problems with public transport...

HolidayArmadillo Sun 03-Mar-13 21:43:58

Gah being late drives me nuts. How do these people manage to hold down a job?

QuickLookBusy Sun 03-Mar-13 21:55:33

I have one particular friend who is always late, She's a lovely person and a very good friend.

Like others have said, my friend has problems, lateness being just one of them but unfortunately not the most serious. Her H is a controlling cunt arse, she struggles on a day to day basis with him.
I certainly wouldn't just cut her out because she's kept me waiting for 30 mins once a month. I don't take it personally as I know she's like it with everyone. I just turn up about 15 mins late myself, order a coffee while I wait for her.

dimsum123 Sun 03-Mar-13 22:06:06

Echo I have pulled my friend up on her lateness and dumped her....temporarily.

But you can't have a friendship without meeting at least occasionally.

I think my friend's whole life is in a bit of a mess tbh and her lateness and general unreliability is causing huge problems for her at work which makes her feel even more stressed out which in turn makes it even more impossible for her to be even remotely on time if she's meeting me....so it's turning into a vicious circle.

I hope my dumping her hasn't stressed her even more so she's even later for work.....

HollaAtMeBaby Sun 03-Mar-13 22:15:37

Giving this further thought... as a semi-reformed and still struggling natural UP, I do feel that both punctuality and tolerance of lateness are to some extent situation-specific and that some people are too extreme about the issue. E.g. I would not be late to meet a friend for the theatre, but if we were meeting at a shopping centre with the aim of wandering around the shops together, I wouldn't think it a big deal to be late - they can start wandering whether I'm there or not. I also think that if someone won't go into a restaurant or bar on their own but stands martyrishly in the cold until I arrive to escort them in, that to some extent is their problem. Unless there's some sort of time-sensitive event in the plan, like a play, or a flight, I couldn't care less if people are late - I always have reading material and a million emails to answer and people to ring!

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm still not big on punctuality for its own sake. Some punctual people do tend to get a bit self-righteous over it and make it into a big issue. Back when I was a habitual UP, one friend would make a thing every time we made a plan of calling in advance to nag me about turning up on time, and I'd wonder what made it OK for her to phone up and say "don't be late, you were late last time and it was annoying" but not OK for me to say to her "don't bore on about your love life all night, you did that last time and it was annoying". We all have to tolerate some failings in our friends in order to enjoy their good points, and and I think some people make lateness into a worse crime than it actually is.

thoughts?

dimsum123 Sun 03-Mar-13 22:36:14

Yes I get what you mean.

My particular UP was always late for EVERYTHING, flights, trains, dinner when a table was booked etc etc. Re the being late if just meeting to wander round shops yes that's not sooo bad. BUT it still depends on the reason. Unusually bad traffic or bus delays are fine. Just not bothering to get up on time or deciding to do stuff that wasn't particularly necessary before leaving for the meet are NOT fine. Not in my book anyway.

dimsum123 Sun 03-Mar-13 22:39:33

It seems the world is divided into two sorts. Those who care about being on time and not making other people wait around for them and those that don't care.

And never the twain shall meet...literally!

WorriedTeenMum Sun 03-Mar-13 22:52:44

HollaAtMeBay, I think it depends on the time pressures in the other person's life. Also, rightly or wrongly, if you are a punctual person and are kept waiting then by the time the person arrives the resentment may well have set in.

DH & I both work and only have one day at the weekend which is totally work free. This makes that day very important to us as we have to get lots of things done in a single day. At the same time we try to make it as free from stress as possible.

DPiL often want to call on us on that day. DPiL are retired and fully acknowledge that they have no time pressures. They are routinely late when visiting us. Sometimes by many hours.

When they are late we will have had to put our lives on pause while we wait for them to arrive. Then when they arrive we are expected to be pleased see them and not be bothered by their lateness or the hours we have been stuck waiting for them.

They see us as the weird ones with our strange need to have visitors fix a time to call and stick to it. Sometimes they find our punctuality discomfiting as they seem to be incapable of being ready for visitors at the time agreed.

Somehow we are supposed to know that they are running late. They dont phone and they dont have their mobile phones switched on.

HollaAtMeBaby Sun 03-Mar-13 22:58:08

That does sound highly annoying WTM. But why don't you visit them so you can control what time the get-together starts and ends, instead of waiting around for them all day? How are they "not ready for visitors" when you arrive if they don't have anything to do?

Alternatively, you could say "we'll be at home between 2 and 4, come round then" - and stick to it.

detoxlatte Sun 03-Mar-13 23:33:55

I think there is indeed a cultural aspect to punctuality - as evidenced by differing levels of lateness being acceptable in different countries.

Ultimately, in social contexts, it's about give and take, and any relationship will ultimately find its equilibrium (not dissimilar to spending levels, drinking levels, etc).

It's in non-social instances that this really matters. And too often the social and the official clash (DC drop off = play date for one, childcare in order to go to work for another). That's when it really hurts.

Murphy0510 Sun 03-Mar-13 23:39:08

Holla, I think the 'they can just wander round on their own' thing you've said about is a bit arrogant tbh. The person you are meeting might have rushed to meet you on time, and they might have things to do. Why should they just have to wander round a shopping centre on their own because you've decided they can do that and that it's ok for you to be late? They may have things of their own that they would prefer to use that time to do, but because you'd agreed a time to meet, they've turned up to meet you! And if you can be on time for the theatre and other things, why not be on time for meeting in a shopping centre too? I don't get the fact that you, and other serial late people on this thread, think it's ok to just make people wait.

I know I wouldn't be particularly happy if I arranged to meet a friend to go shopping and they were very late. I'd feel resentful that I'd gone to the time and trouble to meet at the time we'd both agreed, getting my DCs ready, travelling etc, when I could have had that time at home having a cuppa and getting tasks done. I wouldn't be happy that a 'late' friend had taken it upon themselves to decide I could just shop alone until they decided to grace me with their presence.

HolidayArmadillo Sun 03-Mar-13 23:45:44

Those who don't bother with timekeeping in general how do you keep you jobs? Assuming you have them that is? It's not many contracts that state you can rock up between 9-11ish, depending on what else you've got on, traffic, sleeping in, etc.

MuddlingMackem Mon 04-Mar-13 00:27:52

Portofino Sun 03-Mar-13 20:22:18

>>>> I am guessing you never need rely on public transport LaQueen ;-) <<<<

I'd guess you never do, Portofino, because that's a total cop out.

If you've got a frequent service you go for the one before the one which would just get you there on time to give you a bit of leeway. If it's an irregular time you either fix on a meeting time which works with the transport option, or if it's for an inflexible appointment you just get there really early.

It really is that simple. There are no acceptable excuses not to take that approach. In my opinion.

MuddlingMackem Mon 04-Mar-13 00:28:43

Argh! Not 'irregular', it should be 'infrequent'!

WorriedTeenMum Mon 04-Mar-13 07:22:59

As a punctual person this is how other people's unpunctuality makes me feel:

- punctuality is one of the ways I express my courtesy, respect, liking for a person so if my punctuality is mocked by that person as being anal then it is my courtesy, respect and liking which is being mocked.

- by not being punctual to me then it does feel as though a little bit of courtesy is being dropped as though I am not worthy of that courtesy.

- other people's unpunctuality then pushes me to have to rush to keep on top of my own punctuality. Punctuality isnt for a single event.

The unpunctual person may not mean me to feel these things but I do.

HollaAtMeBaby - we do visit DPiL as well. They will often be doing something like still eating or not have got up/dressed when we arrive (at the time they suggested).

WorriedTeenMum Mon 04-Mar-13 08:35:22

detoxlatte, you are very right about cultural/country differences in attitudes to punctuality. I lived in the Netherlands and had many German colleagues. Both of these countries are typically punctual. If dealing with people from these two countries especially in a work setting then you are wise to ensure that you can match their punctuality. It will affect how they perceive you.

DontmindifIdo Mon 04-Mar-13 11:38:28

I am guessing you never need rely on public transport LaQueen ;-)

It comes down again to the point about if you think you should arrive just in time or before the deadline time. For example, in order to be at work for 9am I could get the 08:12 train as I did this morning that will get me to work at 08:55ish. It's cutting it fine, but if everything runs on time, that's great. However, I only got that train today because I had to buy a new monthly ticket. I normally aim for the 08:03 and if I miss it (due to toddler not wanting to go to nursery, or not being able to find a parking space, or realising at the last minute I haven't renewed my ticket etc), I've got either the 08:08 or the 08:12 to still get me to work just in time.

For UP, they would aim for the 08:12, and then if that was just delayed by a couple of minutes, or missed it, they'd be late for work, but they often would think that's because the train was late, not because they'd aimed for the last possible option giving no allowances for things that can delay you.

Obviously, there's going to be times when the trains are hideously delayed so getting the earlier train won't make any difference, but by aiming for something that gets you where you need to be just in time means that it only takes a tiny delay to make you late. But it's not the tiny delay's fault you are late, it's the fact you didn't consider you might need a bit of 'give' in your schedule that's at fault.

DontmindifIdo Mon 04-Mar-13 11:40:25

(Oh and given a choice, I'd get an even earlier train to be on the safe side, but I am dropping DS at the earliest point possible at nursery as it is to get the 08:03, they won't have staff there any earlier)

Peachy Mon 04-Mar-13 11:53:19

Lateness can be irritating but it's always wortha sking why first

I get to school late every day; parents must think I am rude but short of handing around a leaflet saying 'Hi my child has ASD and can't cope with the crowds at drop off time so we sneak in 2 minutes late and it means he doesn't go into a corner and weep'- well I just have to accept they probably think I am some sort of lazy arrogant person.

However, day to day I try to avoid lateness and rarely am late because it's just not me

Thumbwitch Mon 04-Mar-13 12:15:55

My mum was always late, everywhere. My sister is too. It got to the point that if we were meeting up as a family, they would be given a time half an hour earlier to meet, and would still be last to arrive. When we went to my maternal grandparents' house for birthday/festive teas, I would be the first to arrive, and then it was anyone's guess when my parents would turn up, my sister always the last. My nanna used to get quite frustrated! But we'd start without them if necessary.

I am working on being on time - it doesn't come naturally - but I try not to be more than 5 or at most 10 minutes late.

However - people who turn up really early are ruder, IMO! I won't be ready half an hour ahead of time and actually it's a REAL PITA to have to chat to you while I'm dashing around like a headless chicken getting ready for others to turn up, PLUS I now don't have the chance to change!
And when I was working from home, people who arrived 15mins+ early for appointments were just as bad - again, I won't be ready! My baby won't be ready! I have timed everything to be ready for when your appt time is, NOT 15 mins before that.

I think you can be a bit late for a party, might be odd if everyone turned up on the dot !

I like being early though, or rather on time, and not being stressed getting ready or on the journey.
DH is very reluctant to put in the time and preparation required for that to happen. I admit I can be a bit of a procrastinator too, and leave too much to the last minute (especially with getting the DC's ready too)

Remember ..... Proper Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance smile

I'm rarely late ... more likely to forget to go altogether !

Thumbwitch Mon 04-Mar-13 12:53:00

Juggling, I know a slightly different version of the 7 Ps - prior preparation and planning prevents piss poor performance - being somewhat anal, I looked it up and discovered there are several different versions en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Ps_(military_adage). No real reason for telling you that, just thought I'd share smile

LaalRatty Mon 04-Mar-13 12:53:56

Annoying. My friend invited me and my 3 kids to her home for lunch. She said to be there at 11am. We were there at 11am. I invite her and her 1 child for lunch. Told her to be here at 12pm. She turns up at 2.45. hmm I'd planned a lovely day where we'd take the kids to the park, for a walk, etc. When she finally turned up it was too late to do anything. I held off feeding the kids as long as possible but by two they were starving. Then I felt obliged to make them food and hot drinks when they finally turned up. Which meant my kids wanted more food to eat too. As a result they didn't want dinner that night... and so it goes. She didn't even have a good excuse for being late. "Oh we got up late and just sat around watching telly." She was due here at 12pm and got up at 11.45. I told her to cancel next time. She's a good friend but is so slack with timekeeping. Her dd is frequently late for school.

hifi Mon 04-Mar-13 12:57:58

my friendwas 1.5 hours l;ate for her wedding,pissed everyone off. loads there with kids. she was surprised when 80% left after the food, no one dancing and crates of wine left.

Thumbwitch Mon 04-Mar-13 12:58:29

Laal - I think I'd have assumed she wasn't coming after an hour, fed the children and gone out! shock
That's serious piss-taking, that is.

Murphy0510 Mon 04-Mar-13 13:03:57

Laal, like thumb witch has said, I too would have gone out. If she's a good friend I'd have probably given her an hour, then fed my kids, and then gone out. She sounds incredibly rude

WorriedTeenMum Mon 04-Mar-13 13:04:17

The question about what time you arrive for a party is definitely dependent on country. In the Netherlands there is no such thing as fashionably late, just late.

Peachy - I wouldnt judge you, the time you arrive doesnt affect me however if I had some responsibility in the school then I would want to know.

LaalRatty - this is what bothers me with late visitors, it is the knock on effect. Late visitor meaning late lunch, meaning no time to go out and on and on.

If I were to give DPiL a 'window' of say 2 hours to come in they would arrive right at the end of the 2 hour window still expecting to stay and chat for the full 2 hours. This then means that the DCs dinner is late so our dinner is late and so on.

Murphy0510 Mon 04-Mar-13 13:07:08

We were once invited to lunch at the house of some friends, who are well known for being faffers. We're told to arrive at 11am, only to find not only was no meal being prepared, but they hadn't even bought the food yet! We ended up eating at 6pm! Weird!

WorriedTeenMum Mon 04-Mar-13 13:08:06

hifi - I can understand why people got fed up and left at the earliest opportunity. Some (not all) UP seem to think that once they have arrived and possibly made some small apology then all is forgiven. They forget that by their lateness they have used up goodwill. The people who were on time and kept hanging around may well feel hurt.

LaalRatty Mon 04-Mar-13 13:14:00

I will next time Thumb. This sounds all 'woe is me' but I seem to attract inconsiderate friends. I have dropped people over the years to show I'm not such a soft touch. That was her last chance though. She really took the pee that time which goes to show she is of the "Oh its only Ratty..." mindset. She often says I'm one of the best things to happen to her (I gave her a lot of help when her house was repossessed and she was on the bones of her arse) but I would never throw good deeds back in someones face. Why should I? They shouldn't need telling. But now I know my time is less important than hers I really don't want that spreading to other aspects of our friendship.
Personally I find not accepting someone's apology even more rude. I do and I don't agree with this. It really does depend what the crime is tbh. I've been told that when someone apologises the decent thing to do is accept it. But again its the perogative of the aggrieved surely? I accepted my friends apology but was clear about still being cross and hoping it doesn't happen again (without good reason). Seriously folks just cancel. Then we can get on with our plans.

Frizzbonce Mon 04-Mar-13 13:16:16

My ex sis-in-law was always late. It became a family 'joke' except I never found it funny. She would show up waving bags and excuses around. It was never ever her fault either. Apparently the traffic would rearrange itself and the weather would be deliberately bad just to annoy her. She would then disrupt the event by spending a good ten minutes telling everyone WHY she was late.

One day I was in her house and we were due to leave. We had plenty of time. And about two minutes before she had to leave, she would suddenly decide to look for a missing flipflop (in January) , or have to make a non urgent phone call. And she was completely unable to adjust her behaviour. I honestly don't think she was doing it because she felt she was so important that other people would wait for her - I think it was something to do with boundaries. It would genuinely distress her when she was late but she couldn't or wouldn't alter her behaviour.

limitedperiodonly Mon 04-Mar-13 13:16:24

Those who don't bother with timekeeping in general how do you keep you jobs? Assuming you have them that is? It's not many contracts that state you can rock up between 9-11ish

Because different jobs require different skills holidayarmadillo. If I was managing a shop or a train company then obviously I'd be a stickler for punctuality, but that's not what I do.

As a manager I'd be angry with someone who was late for an appointment and missed it entirely but I wouldn't care if they were late and still got it done.

I'm more bothered by people who think the main priority is getting in on time. I'm very unhappy with people who can't grasp that - and there have been a few.

Obviously it's a dream it someone turns up on time, does the job well and stays until everything's done.

But most people can't do all three and in my job I'd value the last two over the first.

Thumbwitch Mon 04-Mar-13 13:20:47

"Not accepting someone's apology is even more rude" - well that rather depends, doesn't it - if it's the same "Oh sorry I'm late [yet again just like every other time], you know what I'm like" then it doesn't really count as a sincere apology, does it? In which case I'd have no compunction in not accepting it. OTOH, if it's a one off and the person has genuine reasons, of course I'd accept it.

I've just remembered that I have an Indian friend who was nearly always late. She used to call it "running to Bombay Standard Time" - anything up to 2h late was acceptable, and even expected. I don't know whether or not this is true for Indians in Bombay, I've never been there - but she seemed to think it was perfectly normal. We employed similar tactics with her as with my sister and mum...

wol1968 Mon 04-Mar-13 13:30:06

I know this is AIBU but can some of us UP's have a break?

I have struggled with the issue of deadlines and punctuality most of my life. I actually dropped a degree class because I couldn't hand in my essays on time. That hurt nobody but myself. It was not a rational response. It was not pleasurable. I was not exercising power, or privilege, or anything like that. I was probably verging on clinically depressed.

I take exception to being told that because I tend to be late for things that I am selfish, self-centred and don't care about other people. As a SAHM, I spend my days doing stuff - cooking, cleaning, washing, appointments, chauffeuring, homework help, listening ear, you name it - for other people. It always, always takes about three times as long as I think it will. Even if I tell myself it will take longer than I think, it still takes longer. Head. Bang. Wall.

I have seriously considered that maybe I need to be electrically shocked every five minutes or something, just so that my brain can get re-set. As it is, I need to be practically obsessive in checking the clock so that I don't stress myself out rushing around and royally piss off most of the rest of the world. sad I consider myself to have done well to keep most of my lateness to family (who are geared the same way) and the kinds of friends who give me enough leeway and know not to set rigid schedules. I never take these friends for granted.

Excuse essay. I now have approx. 7 minutes to grab a sandwich and a brew before I set out for parent consultation at school, which requires 5 mins walk. I hope nothing derails this tight schedule...

...logs out and switches off computer...

LaalRatty Mon 04-Mar-13 13:30:42

it doesn't really count as a sincere apology, does it? In which case I'd have no compunction in not accepting it. Well said.

LaQueen Mon 04-Mar-13 13:31:21

"If you've got a frequent service you go for the one before the one which would just get you there on time to give you a bit of leeway. If it's an irregular time you either fix on a meeting time which works with the transport option, or if it's for an inflexible appointment you just get there really early."

Yep...you see this is precisely how I used buses, when I relied on them for a few months. It just seemed the obvious, sensible approach to take. And, that's why using buses never made me late.

"For UP, they would aim for the 08:12, and then if that was just delayed by a couple of minutes, or missed it, they'd be late for work, but they often would think that's because the train was late, not because they'd aimed for the last possible option giving no allowances for things that can delay you."

Yes...this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^. With UP people, it's always someone/something else's fault. They won't accept responsibilty for the fact they were cutting things very fine, in the first place.

Murphy0510 Mon 04-Mar-13 13:33:26

Wol I have little sympathy I'm afraid. Your life sounds no busier than anyone else's. why should everyone have to cut you slack and wait around for you when you are a grown adult?

With regards to accepting lateness apologies. I would always accept an apology, but it wouldn't mean that I would meet up with that person again. I'd just stop making arrangements with them.

DontmindifIdo Mon 04-Mar-13 13:37:00

I think there's nothing rude in not accepting an apology you are certain isn't genuine - and if someone is reguarly late to meet you, then they don't really mean they are sorry, they aren't making the effort to be on time.

LaQueen Mon 04-Mar-13 13:39:19

I suspect that most UP are largely oblivious to the people around them, and they exist in a bubble. They are oblivious to the fact that other people have lives, and plans, and stuff to do.

It's almost as though, they think other people exist in limbo, until such time as the UP is with them...and, then the UP expects them to suddenly activate, and be all smiles and happy to see them hmm

I strongly suspect that many UP have a very similar perception of life/time/other people, that toddlers do.

LaalRatty Mon 04-Mar-13 13:39:44

Wol I suffer from Clinical Depression. I always worry what people think of me. To me one of the easiest ways to stay in someones "good books" is to be considerate of their time. Tbh though someone say half an hour late doesn't bother me so much but someone breezily wafting in, 3 hours late, completely untroubled by their rudeness makes me angry. I don't know anyone who turns up when they say they will come to think of it.

limitedperiodonly Mon 04-Mar-13 13:40:21

Have a hug wol1968 grin

As long as your lateness didn't badly affect me I'd let it go. If it did then I'd think 'oh, I can't rely on her' and not see you that often.

I wouldn't take it personally and I can't understand why other people do either.

DontmindifIdo Mon 04-Mar-13 13:41:13

wol1968 - you had under 10 minutes to get somewhere that's a 5 minute walk, still had to eat and you decided to type a reply on mumsnet rather than grab a banana to keep you going, spend a couple of minutes sorting your bag/coat/shoes and leaving the house at 7 minutes before you were due at the location for your meeting... That right there is why you are late. You didn't have time to type on mumsnet, you didn't have time for a sandwich and cup of tea. You only just had enough time to get to where you needed to be on time.

LaQueen Mon 04-Mar-13 13:41:55

Sorry wol zero sympathy from me...you've sat there, and faffed about on MN, typing loads, all the while knowing you only had a couple of minutes to get to the school. Presumably, the teachers/staff will be kept waiting for you...?

I rest my fucking case hmm

LaalRatty Mon 04-Mar-13 13:44:09

I rest my fucking case This made me proper laugh. I don't know why though. grin

LaQueen Mon 04-Mar-13 13:45:34

limited I think the reason that people take it personally is because very often another's lateness really affects them personally.

Like the incident mentioned up-thread, of the friend arriving 2 hours late for lunch...which then threw out, the person's plans for the rest of the day, and resulted in children, who didn't want their tea.

I've had very similar - where my plans have been casually disrupted by an UP, resulting in me having to race to the supermarket that evening, when I should have been doing something I enjoyed, and had planned to do.

So, yes...I will take it very personally, if someone's lateness impinges on my free time, and stops me doing something I had looked forward to.

Murphy0510 Mon 04-Mar-13 13:49:28

I agree laqueen.

I too take lateness very personally. That's why I won't tolerate it and why I ditch any friends that are persistently late. Generally if a person is always late they will have other traits that I dislike too, such as being self centred, selfish and thinking the world revolves around them. My SIL is always late. We see her as little as possible but obviously can't avoid her too much. She has a persecution complex. It's always always someone else's fault that she's late, it's always other people doing things to make her late. She will never admit 'actually I got up late, sat around watching This Morning, and couldn't be arsed to get in the shower til 12'

LaalRatty Mon 04-Mar-13 13:50:52

What is worse is when someone just doesn't turn up. They know you'll be waiting and planned things specifically to suit you. But something more exciting comes up... My mum and sister regularly pull no shows. Once when I'd been persuaded to rustle up a roast with pudding and everything. My mum turned up 2 days later and went rather grumpily "I suppose I'm in the bad books then?" hmm You can't just fuck your mum off though.

limitedperiodonly Mon 04-Mar-13 13:52:00

There is that grin

Yes, it's procrastination. Something that as a mostly reformed latecomer I fight against constantly.

You'd better not still be here wol

MrsMymble Mon 04-Mar-13 13:53:05

Recovered late person here blush

I used to be late for everything. I remember once arranging to meet a friend for drinks, being an hour late and thinking that was ok. I was probably late for almost everything up until my mid-twenties, then I grew up a bit, realised being late for everything was an entirely selfish act, and tried to organise my time better.

This is why I just don't buy it when people say they can't help being late. I think it means they just can't be bothered to try and be on time!

Ilovesunflowers Mon 04-Mar-13 13:56:15

Latesness drives me up the friggin wall. I honestly don't know why some people are late everytime. The only time I am ever late for anything is when it is socially acceptable lateness e.g. turning up 10-15 minutes late for a party because actually that is what the host tends to expect and wants (in my experience).

This weekend took the p1ss. I was meeting two friends who are notorious for being late EVERY time. The plan was to meet at theirs at 7pm for a girly night in. I walked there and when I arrived there was no answer at the door. I rang them and no answer. They were still out buying food. They are the only people who could be late at their own bloody house. I was stood in the cold and dark. I ended up walking home and got a message at 7.40pm to say they'd just got back. 40 bloody minutes late for something at their house. I was fuming as I'd been stood outside their house a while before they answered the phone. I nearly didn't go back and was in a bad mood all evening. I did tell them I was pissed off but as usual it was laughed off as it's their 'norm'. I just don't understand it. If you have a plan for 7pm you don't go food shopping at 7pm. Ahhhhhh!

Peachy Mon 04-Mar-13 13:56:52

Thank you worried, school obviously know as he ahs a statement and they ahd his 2 also- ASD siblings before him.

'One day I was in her house and we were due to leave. We had plenty of time. And about two minutes before she had to leave, she would suddenly decide to look for a missing flipflop (in January) , or have to make a non urgent phone call. ' From a different perspective, it sounds like a delaying tactic of the sort someone with some kind of anxiety issue might use? Procrastination but at expert level.

I suspect Wol that might apply to you as you have depression? In which case you have plenty of sympathy from me. That doesn;t mean you shouldn;t try and address it, but it's possibly stemming from something very different to expecting other people to wait around.

I am usually early for appointments, and with the boys we have a vast amount. My husband is usually late: it does not affect his work as he is self employed and self motivates very well, I'm not sure why he is always late but often he under estimates how much time it will take to do something, such as a journey. Which is odd given that he was a successful transport planner for a big multinational before changing careers. He just seems to lose track of time as well but he IS significantly busy- self employed, FT student on top and helping me with the boys often: still annoys me. Whilst I KNOW that he is usually trying to finish off that last job that came in fgive minutes ago, it FEELS like he thinks my time is less valuable than his.

I hate late

WhatKindofFool Mon 04-Mar-13 14:06:59

My ex husband is always late collecting the children on the weekends he has them. We have a competition to see who can guess just how late he will be. It is usually at least half an hour but can be up to one and a half hours late.

It really pisses me off. I'd like to see him get the kids to school every morning on time and to collect them on time every day like I do.

The message it gives me is that his children are bottom of his list of priorities. Of course, he would deny that!

Thumbwitch Mon 04-Mar-13 14:13:57

What I hate even more than other people being late is people who make me late as well. I actually get really anxious about it, which I suspect goes back to my Mum's unpunctuality, which got me into trouble a fair bit.

I went to visit friends in Brussels one weekend, on Eurostar. Had a return ticket with a clear time on it - told the friends when I needed to be at the station etc. They were terribly breezy about it and when we got to the station 10 minutes late, they said "oh that's fine, we'll talk to the man, he'll let you on." Well he bloody didn't, did he. Luckily for me they had space on the next train, and my friends changed the ticket for me (can't remember if it cost anything, they would have paid for it if it did). I remember trying really hard to hold onto my temper/anxiety because I didn't know them all that well - but I was fizzing inside!

Peachy Mon 04-Mar-13 14:17:46

Wow thumb, that's REALLY rude!

LieInsAreRarerThanTigers Mon 04-Mar-13 14:19:53

There is very interesting psychology here.

There are some disorders, OCD, dysexecutive syndrome, which truly affect people's ability to plan and be punctual.

There is severe anxiety where somebody knows they could not cope with waiting alone so will always choose to arrive when they know someone will be waiting.

There are also personality disorders, where people really are deliberately late to draw attention to themselves, get the opportunity to talk about all the incredible things which happened to make them late etc.

Whether or not you want to be friends with any of these people is up to you, but the reasons for being friends with someone or not probably has a lot more to it than just their punctuality. (We don't interview friends in a recruitment process, we just click with people on different levels and for different reasons)

In my personal experience the people I know who are the worst timekeepers are actually some of the nicest people I know, and the chances are they will be late because they have stopped to help someone, or to do something else beyond the call of duty, or they didn't want to cut somebody short. They are the sort of people you could turn to in a crisis, and they would drop everything to be there for you when you need them, because they are less 'rigid'.

So I think there can be a bit of give and take and if someone's reasons for lateness appear to be always selfish and/or attention seeking, then ok - you're fired.

limitedperiodonly Mon 04-Mar-13 14:20:56

I think it's probably a difference between our definition of personal laqueen.

Someone recently kept me waiting almost two hours for an appointment. He blamed it on someone else turning up late for another meeting which I didn't believe. I was impotently angry but I couldn't take it personally because he would have done that to anyone because he's a bad organiser.

I once was kept waiting for an hour for a job interview and when I got in realised I'd seen my interviewer looking at me over the internal balcony a few times. That was personal - kind of, because I got the job and realised he played that sort of power trip on everyone. But that man was not like your run-of-the-mill late person. Thank God.

So when wol says this: 'I was not exercising power, or privilege, or anything like that' I believe her. I don't believe that people do it because they think their time is more valuable than anyone else's or that they're passive aggressive, as someone said ages ago.

They just don't think. So I either try not to be in a situation where I'm hanging around for them or if they do get me, I'm annoyed but don't take it personally because it's not. In fact feeling like that would piss me off even more.

Occasionally you can even turn it to your advantage because some people feel so guilty about being late they'll do anything to make you happy.

Thumbwitch Mon 04-Mar-13 14:22:30

It did kind of spoil the weekend, I have to say, Peachy! Ended on a bit of a sour note. sad

My parents had a lot to answer for with this kind of thing though - picking me up from parties 2h after they'd finished (in my teens, not as a small child) because they'd "forgotten" about me; taking 5h to get to my house (15mins away) to bring me food/medicine when I was ill (in my twenties) because they "didn't want to drive alone so waited until my brother could bring them" hmm - gah!

Ilovesunflowers Mon 04-Mar-13 14:23:22

I've had that too Thumbwitch. I was at uni and my friend kindly said she'd give me a lift to the station as I had a heavy suitcase to carry home for Christmas.

Of course she was late despite me telling her several times that I had to be there by x time. I missed the train which I would have caught if I'd got a taxi. The resultant journey was a nightmare. A £55 penalty fee to get new train, 5 changes of train for a journey where there was normally 1 change. I was fuming as 5 rushed train changes with a heavy suitcase was an absolute nightmare.

Thumbwitch Mon 04-Mar-13 14:28:16

Argh, that's awful, Ilove! I hope she apologised.

And that's reminded me of another one - a friend insisted on giving us a lift to the airport for a holiday, despite the flight being at 8am, so us needing to be there at 6am, leaving home at 5am. We were dubious, going to ask my BIL to do it, or DH's cousin - but she insisted.
So - I got a text message from her at 1am, saying she was just coming back from a night out, she was completely pissed but would "still be at yours to take you to the airport" - in 4h time. No fucking way! She wouldn't have got to us in time, AND she was utterly pissed - so I had to phone my blessed BIL who agreed to take us, at the last minute - he got us there on time.

limitedperiodonly Mon 04-Mar-13 14:32:21

lieinsarebetterthantigers put it so much better than me.

vladthedisorganised Mon 04-Mar-13 14:32:33

I get annoyed at some lateness. Generally any appointment where I've had to accommodate the latecomer, but end up waiting around for ages, gets me annoyed. And 'DS did a poo' is not really an excuse for my waiting around at a restaurant an hour's drive away from me for two hours, while latecomer lives five minutes away.

Where someone has had a long way to travel, or lets me know they're running late because of external problems ('taxi has only just turned up, I'm on my way' sort of thing), I really have no issue with it. Five minutes doesn't bother me much and I wouldn't read anything into it; an hour and I get annoyed.

I always take people arriving early at parties as being a sign that they're more than willing to help with any last-minute chores, like cleaning the loo.. grin

BlueSkySunnyDay Mon 04-Mar-13 14:34:08

If people are coming to my house it annoys me more if they are early to be honest. Over half an hour late is very rude but 10-15 minutes would not bother me if I am at home although would annoy me if I am standing outside a car park in the rain.

If I arrange to meet my friend one of us is always 10-15 minutes late - now if we want to get going by 10.00 we arrange to meet at 9.45ish its an understanding between us now.

If I were going to dinner at someone's house then I would always be on time.

LaalRatty Mon 04-Mar-13 15:22:21

There's an episode of Friends where it's Phoebe's birthday and all of them bar Joey are very late in getting there. I know its a tv show and not real but it really winds me up especially when Monica berates Phoebe for not being able to get a bigger table. I love when she freaks out at them and then gets her revenge by ditching them. The amount of times I've wanted to do "A Phoebe". grin

HolidayArmadillo Mon 04-Mar-13 15:42:55

limitedperiodonly

As a manager I'd be angry with someone who was late for an appointment and missed it entirely but I wouldn't care if they were late and still got it done.

I'm more bothered by people who think the main priority is getting in on time. I'm very unhappy with people who can't grasp that - and there have been a few.

Obviously it's a dream it someone turns up on time, does the job well and stays until everything's done.

But most people can't do all three and in my job I'd value the last two over the first.

^

I'm astounded by this. I think your own poor timekeeping is leading you to have very low expectations of those around you. Most people can't do all three? Well actually I'd like to think most able bodied adults can, poor timekeeping isn't a disease, it isn't something you can't help, in the main (and I do grant there are some exceptions) it's bone idleness and lack of respect for those around you.

guineapiglet Mon 04-Mar-13 15:54:02

Hi _ I think I am a bit obessive about being early for things and worry about it IF I cant be early! - If I have to drop the kids at college etc, I insist we leave at least 15 minutes beforehand as cannot bear the idea of them thinking being late is 'OK' - but they both have a tardis mentality - ie we have to be somewhere at 12.30 so leaving at 12.29 is OK - very stressful for the 'taxi driver'.

Personally I think it is courteous and good manners to arrive on time and not keep people waiting. I have a cousin here who is ALWAYS late, whenever we organise something she is always 'too busy' to arrive on time, so meals, days out etc are always done on her time and not mine, I think it is a horrible reputation to have, and we have to reschedule our time to accommodate her lateness - it is kind of saying that she is more important/busy etc than we are - even the kids have noticed!

After having done a lot of interviewing in my career, people who arrived late did not get off to a good start, unless there were proper extenuating circumstances and genuine reasons. Plus there are mobiles now, so there really is no excuse for not telling people you are going to be late, in 'my day' one phone call had to suffice!!! ( From a landline I mean), smile

fl0b0t Mon 04-Mar-13 15:59:20

I also hate lateness- but what's worse is either lateness with a lie or with no communication at all. I once had a lift share (to work) tell me she was scraping ice off her car. It was +5 degrees and there was no ice on any of the cars. she lives 2 roads from me......

Lateness is acceptable if you communicate well- if I know I'm going to be late (rare) I make sure I let the person I'm meeting know- even if it's 5 minutes! I've had someone be so late that they left 20 minutes AFTER we were supposed to meet, and never bothered to send a text. Seriously- if you haven't left home until well after you're supposed to meet someone, you know that you're going to be late as it's physically impossible to be on time!

I'm annoyingly early in most situations and will always apologise for being early especially if I feel I've put someone out. However, I take a book everywhere so I'm happy to entertain myself!

I rely a lot on public transport, so leaving extra time is essential.

curryeater Mon 04-Mar-13 16:05:29

I used to be always late. I would like to issue a general apology. It is shit, and I don't do it any more.

Now you will tell me what an idiot I am: I went out with a man (for THREE YEARS!) who was 45 minutes late to our first date, and the rendez-vous was outside a tube station, and the weather was not good. I might as well have written "KICK ME" on my forehead to have still been there. Yes, his behaviour towards me was as you might expect from that. For three years. AGH! [goes back in time and talks sense into low-self-esteem 20-something Curry]

curryeater Mon 04-Mar-13 16:12:43

ON THE OTHER HAND:

we have a limited sort of flexi-time at work - you can count your hour hours arriving between 9am and 10am.
In management training - which turned into a sort of group therapy, where all the managers shared all their fears and anguishes - it turned out that some of the managers regarded any staff member who turned up later than 9, as late. And hated that they couldn't pull them up on it, because they were within the rules, and were going to work their full day on those rules.

That really fucked me off. I have no choice because of childcare but to be an early person, but deep down I am a 10 am person at heart (or later) and it has annoyed me all my life that some fuckwits can't see that night owls are no lazier, intrinsically, than early birds.
(Obviously, though, if you have arranged to do something in particular at 9 you bloody well show up at 9, that goes without saying)

slatternlymother Mon 04-Mar-13 16:17:51

Ooooh look, we made discussions of the day!

<feels all proud and smug and stuff>

Yes, agree with fl0b0t when you say that lateness with no communication is the worst. I don't think there's any excuse for it nowadays!

What's worse though, is someone who is late, but doesn't acknowledge it. Like they meant it, and they're just being 'fashionably late'. Which, by the way, is a phrase I hate. There is nothing fashionable about being rude.

They're in the same bracket of person who knows you, but fails to say hello when you pass in the street, and pretends not to notice. I hate that. You know the type I mean, those kind who are 'just like, soooo busy babes I totes didn't even see you!'

Piss off.

cheeseandchive Mon 04-Mar-13 17:00:05

DH and I have noticed that we both are really relaxed about time-keeping when it's the other person's friends/family we're going to see, but obsessive about arriving on time when it's our own!

For example, if we're running late to see his family I'm all relaxed and like "chill out, we said 1ish let's just enjoy ourselves" while he's pushing me out the door and desperate to get there. But if we're going to see my family I yell at him for being slow and sit in the car, beeping at him to hurry up.

dontsvetmuchforafatgirl Mon 04-Mar-13 17:06:24

Very interesting. I'm from Finland where it is extremely rude to be late.
Kept waiting more than 10/15 minutes and people just cancel or leave.
It's often considered mystifying to be waiting with no information.
People often text in advance of being late (if train delayed etc) just to avoid any inconvenience ie Meeting at 1400, train journey takes 25 minutes, you will get a text already at 1340 warning that they will be 5 minutes late.

Lateness must be part cultural, because it can be done here in 2 feet of snow and minus 20. All due to planning ahead.

I.e we get up 45 minutes earlier in winter to allow for

dressing extra layers of clothing/boots/snow protectors - 15 minutes
snow clearing - 15 minutes
car heating - 5 minutes
car scraping - 10 minutes

We are a bog standard "lapsiperhe" young family and like most we plan no other activities on workday, no "dropping by", no "popping in". Home, Nursery, Work, Nursery, Home.
Shopping and socialising all extra and separately scheduled. Everything else done by internet

Bit dull but very punctual and effective. (Finland in a nutshell)

iseenodust Mon 04-Mar-13 17:15:51

Agree with OP when it's repeat offenders.

curryeater Mon 04-Mar-13 17:22:45

donstvetmuch - interesting - what does "lapsiperhe" mean?
Do you live in the UK now?
Do you think Finnish punctuality is part of a general greater courtesy than you get in the UK?

limitedperiodonly Mon 04-Mar-13 17:32:57

My timekeeping is good holidayarmadillo. I don't know where you get the impression that it's not.

I explained what I look for in staff for the particular demands of my industry. Being on time, though admirable, is not my top priority. If people think it is and lack the more important skills then we won't get on.

And whatever you like to think lots of people can't do their jobs very well. There are threads about that on here every day.

I hate people being late, with a passion! To the point where I've actually cancelled because I can't stand to hang around waiting any longer. A minute or two is fine, if I'm left standing for longer than that without communication, you've had it!

limitedperiodonly Mon 04-Mar-13 18:00:03

Two weeks ago I had a meeting and got a text from the person's PA saying: 'Limited, you have a meeting with John in 7 minutes. I hope you're on your way.'

I texted: 'I am 15 seconds from your door. But I'll be longer now because I answered your text.'

What a rude and frankly insane cow. As I pointed out to John.

limitedperiodonly Mon 04-Mar-13 18:15:45

It did occur to me that John might be the sort of insane tyrant who has no truck with late people and his PA was only following orders.

Except that if that had been me I'd have said: 'Yeah, yeah John I texted her' but wouldn't have done it because it would make me look mad.

Anyway, whichever one's the crazed control freak, we have an agreement that I won't be receiving texts like that again.

I am rarely late and I do think it's rude to be late. It's certainly rude to always be late. I find lots of people don't think through how long things really take - yes the journey to X is 50 minutes on the motorway but do you know where you're parking when you get there? How near to the venue is it? Pay and Display might need coins, have you got any in case? Those sorts of things. I'm pretty good at estimating how long something will take me in reality.

Doearwigsmakechutney Mon 04-Mar-13 19:37:06

I find lateness really annoying. In retrospect, I wish I'd walked away from various tube stations, restaurants etc in the past when people were late for entirely avoidable reasons. Instead I stayed like a mug and seethed.

I no longer accept such lateness, though I do think different rules apply where someone is coming to my house, where 10 mins extra tidying time is always helpful. There's also a huge difference between being late for genuinely good reason and being habitually flaky.

pinkpaws Mon 04-Mar-13 19:45:34

I agree it is SO rude my sister drives me mad ALWAYS late. But not as rude as people who talk over others that really makes me want to slap them.

TheFallenNinja Mon 04-Mar-13 19:46:58

In a business situation I invite latecomers to explain why they were late just in case they miss the point that I don't care about the reason.

It rarely happens twice and could be avoided by a simple phone call (not a text or an email)

pinkpaws Mon 04-Mar-13 20:04:03

It is so rude i try to make a point of not being late or early thats as bad

WorriedTeenMum Mon 04-Mar-13 20:06:36

I already liked Finland after numerous visits to Helsinki (the cleanest city I have ever visited). I hadnt realised it was also so punctual but then again I was living in NL at the time (another punctual and clean place).

OrWellyAnn Mon 04-Mar-13 20:25:26

I agree. And DH is habitually late. It's a MASSIVE source of aggrevation when we are both meant to be leaving the house to go somewhere.

^ this. And my DH'sparentsare as bad. We once travelled overnight to another CONTINENET to visit them, arrived at their house with two exhausted kids, and then sat in the car for half an hour waiting for them to get back from 'a short pop to the shops'. MIL is retired, she does f-all, she couldn't have done it earlier? Later? The day before. I was fuming.

Mind you, were talking bout the people that were 1/2 hour late to his graduation ceremony. We had tickets, so had to wait for them outside. DH made his part by literally a minute.

YASOOOOOONBU.

OrWellyAnn Mon 04-Mar-13 20:29:11

Sorry, poor spelling...have flu.

gazzalw Mon 04-Mar-13 20:55:54

DW is a stickler for time-keeping but has had so many friends, over the years, who are habitually late-to-date comers, that even she never arrives more than five minutes early and is even known to be five minutes late sometimes. It irks her to purposefully be delay herself but she has wasted tens of hours hanging around waiting for people.

I think it's all about sending a subliminal message that you (the latecomer) are in control and holding the power!

LaQueen Mon 04-Mar-13 21:17:04

"I'm more bothered by people who think the main priority is getting in on time. I'm very unhappy with people who can't grasp that - and there have been a few. Obviously it's a dream it someone turns up on time, does the job well and stays until everything's done. But most people can't do all three and in my job I'd value the last two over the first."

Limited I'm really surprised to read this. I think your expectations are quite low. Do you think this might be connected to your own more relaxed approach to time-keeping?

I've been a manager in the past - and without putting too fine a point on it, I expected my staff to arrive on time, do their jobs competently during the day, and then leave on time - and/or stay late if necessary, sometimes.

To me, this was just a given - and I'd have been quick to wear my angry trousers if they weren't giving me that.

Getting in on time isn't regarded as a priority by me, at all - it should be a damn well forgone conclusion.

LaQueen Mon 04-Mar-13 21:31:30

And, I am livid if someone else makes me late.

DH once kept me waiting, when I had to be somewhere important. As far as I could see, he was just faffing - he'd had plenty of warnings etc. But, the faffing continued. And the appointment I had was simply unmissable.

In the end, I scooped up his car keys, and marched out of his office, and walked off to the car park. Literally within seconds, he'd managed to grab his lap top, briefcase, papers and actually ran after me.

Yet, I know that if I hadn't marched off, he'd have carried on faffing for another 10 minutes hmm

I wonder if this is connected - but with DH I have also noticed that he's incapable of doing a quick goodbye either. When I first met him, and we'd visit his parents - he'd start making noises about leaving...and then there'd be faffing...then nothing would happen...more faffing...eventually, we'd all be standing slightly awkwardly in the hall...more faffing and pointless remarks...it was so painful, the whole process could take over an hour shock

It was clear that no one felt able to say directly 'Right, lovely to see you, we're off.'

DH is also really poor at making snap decisions...if we're in the car, and the DDs announce they need to go to the loo - he will typically drive past the first couple of available loos...I have no idea why? It's like he has to get used to the idea of pulling over so they can use a loo.

When they were younger, and we were out in the country with no loos, I'd be having to almost shout at him 'Right, stop right there, right there in that next lay-by, yes that one - else they're going to bleddy wet themselves, you idiot'

It's like he has to have some utterly pointless Faffing Time between realising that something needs to be done, and then actually doing it.

trixymalixy Mon 04-Mar-13 21:56:57

I have family members that are always late for things and then only stay for as long as they feel is polite. They always leave hours earlier than every other normal person would stay at a party. They think we don't notice that they are only showing face.

They wax lyrical about how much they love us and how much we mean to them, but their actions speak louder than their words.

The leaving too early is ruder than the being late IMO.

PigeonPie Mon 04-Mar-13 21:58:16

DS1 didn't go to Beavers tonight because he hadn't got himself organised and DH decided that leaving home at 6 when Beavers starts at 6 is not acceptable.

We both felt bad that he'd missed it but we hope that he learns his lesson and gets himself together when it is suggested he does rather than when it's too late!

MooMooSkit Mon 04-Mar-13 22:05:55

I always think the public transport thing is such a cop out. I've lived in an area that's had very good transport to where I live now where it's rubbish and I'm still always on time. I've just worked out that I should get the bus that's due before the one i actually need just incase that one doesn't turn up then I have another two as back up, it's really not hard to do :S And i've never driven my whole life, never been late for work/meeting anyone ever.

I do think it's incredibly rude!

cheeseandchive Mon 04-Mar-13 22:24:23

Understand what you mean, MooMoo, but it isn't always a cop-out.

I had a Drs appt the other week at and gave myself an hour and a half to do a 30min journey. I was still waiting for a bus hour and a half later in which time 6 buses were supposed to have come and gone.

Mostly public transport is manageable but sometimes it's just shit.

LastOrdersAtTheBra Mon 04-Mar-13 22:26:48

Sorry, not read all the posts so might have missed if the discussion has moved on, but I hate lateness!

I have a friend who is habitually between half an hour and an hour late to everything, on the one and only occasion I was 10 minutes late to meet her (in my defence DS2 was less than 3 months old and I also had a toddler), she phoned to ask where I was and why I was late. Grrr! I can also add since she has had DC2, she now explains that it's impossible to get anywhere on time with 2 DC, despite the fact her DC1 is already at school...

BoringTheBuilder Mon 04-Mar-13 22:38:23

Er...try to be a CM for 2 UP parents
They live next door to me
I wonder how much more late they could be if they lived further...

carefulobserver Tue 05-Mar-13 05:48:20

Also not read all the posts but thought I'd add my tuppence worth anyway.

Lateness is actually sometimes the result of (often hidden) mental health problems, sometimes mild in that they don't prevent the person from leading a normal life but get in the way of them getting places on time.

I have a friend who is always late by quite a while (40 minutes, an hour, sometimes more). I could never understand it until another friend confided that she has OCD and is tied up in doing certain rituals before she can leave the house. If she messes one of them up she has to start again, hence why she is often very late. If she doesn't do them she is overcome with a fear that something terrible will happen to her or her loved ones. She doesn't tell anyone this though and so everyone just thinks she is rude. It's quite sad really, no idea if she's getting help for it but it affects her work and stuff and she's been in trouble about it before.

While I am nowhere near as late as her, I'm also habitually ten minutes late (of half a hour if I miss the train). My doctor thinks I have a mild form of dyspraxia which just means that I have trouble coordinating things and am prone to lose things at five minute intervals amongst other irritations. It doesn't seem to matter what precautions I take to try to make sure I'm organised and going to get out the door in time, something always goes wrong. Because I'm prone to leaving things behind (and then having to come back to get them thus making me late) I try to doublecheck I've got everything in my bag before I go. But often I'll see my phone, mentally tick it off the list, keep rooting around for my money, and then if I can't find it I'll take everything else out of my bag. Then find my purse, feel relieved and then leave having forgotten my phone is now no longer in my bag. And then have to come back for it thus making me late. And I do this ALL THE TIME! I have tried all sorts of systems to avoid this (and all the other myriad of things that make me late) but nothing ever works - I just have a brain malfunction when it comes to certain small tasks. I went through a phase of leaving myself longer and longer to get ready but that didn't work either and it got to the point I was getting up 4 hours before I had to leave. I'd always mess something up and be ten minutes late! Aaaargh! I really don't want to be rude but I just can't seem to fix this. In other areas of my life I am quite good at problem solving,

WorriedTeenMum Tue 05-Mar-13 07:04:21

carefulobserver my DM has started getting forgetful. Something which helps her with regards to leaving behind handbag contents is having clips in her handbag for the things which she doesnt want to leave behind:

- phone
- purse
- keys

Each has its own clip attached to her bag. Until something is on its clip it isnt in her bag.

Also she has stopped carrying so much crap stuff in her hand bag. Over the years she had accumulated more and more stuff in her bag to the point where she had started carrying a backpack (I shit you not!).

Into this pond of crap things like the 3 key items above could be lost without trace.

Have you tried an approach like this?

sashh Tue 05-Mar-13 08:13:04

LaQueen

I know exactly what I mean. After many times waiting for my ex housemate I said to him, "we need to leave at 11.00, that means that at 11.00 we will be walking out the door with coats and shoes on, not starting to look for something to wear"

My parents will not tell me what time they are leaving when they are visiting me. They live two hours away. My mother claims they may be delayed, yes I understand that but they have been as early as midday and as late as midnight.

She does just doesn't get that I might want to eat, go to the shop or 100 other things.

Last time she arrived I wasn't here, whe was not happy.

Hullygully Tue 05-Mar-13 09:16:10

rude

Ipp3 Tue 05-Mar-13 09:28:33

Yes it is rude! I have friends who are habitually late and seem to think it is ok. One actually turned up an hour late to a restaurant meal blaming her husband as she had rowed with him ( you could have told him you didn't have time as you were meeting me instead of indulging yourself in a row!). Then told me she thought of getting a taxi to meet me as she was late but decided that she would only be doing that to spite her husband (due to cost)and so got the bus instead!!!!!!! And then looked at me in a way that made clear she expected me to praise her for being such a good person! When I didn't she repeated the story as if I failed to praise her because of a lack of understanding. In fact, this person turned up to another meal an hour late and then announced it was my fault for not having a mobile. how would that have helped? I knew she was late by the fact she wasn't there: I don' t need her to phone me to tellmethat.
Yes, lateness is rudeness. Definitely.

whyno Tue 05-Mar-13 09:34:29

I loathe it. Have actually stopped inviting habitually late friends to things which is a shame but it upsets me so much it's not worth it. A friend once told me she was always late because otherwise she would have to wait for someone. Errr shock

limitedperiodonly Tue 05-Mar-13 09:57:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sazzle41 Tue 05-Mar-13 10:18:13

A psychologist would say that subconsciously you are saying 'I don't value or like you enough to pay you the courtesty of being on time'. Being on time is a simple courtesy implying you value , like and appreciate those you are on time for .. Again subconsciously someone may have a need to 'feel important' so by making others wait they feel it gives them higher status ... (Marilyn Monroe's explanation to her Psychologist on why she was famously 3hours late for him and everyone else: it made her feel valued and important. She stopped being late for him - but no-one else). Bit of relevant trivia !

wol Have you tried using a kitchen timer? If I set the kitchen timer to ring every 20 minutes I get loads more done.

kimorama Tue 05-Mar-13 11:18:45

Depends on the reason for lateness

wol1968 Tue 05-Mar-13 11:33:31

Blimey, what is this, Flamethrowers Anonymous? grin
[checks asbestos jacket for holes]
Don't worry, I'm not looking for sympathy on here hmm just putting out a different POV to give the judgey pants majority verdict on here, but those of you who do understand, thanks. You can be thinking of your friend every minute you're getting ready, but that pesky clock is speeding up and doing a different thing to your brain.

I am dealing with this; the kids can now get to school in good time without me yelling at them, I do get plenty of housework done in the day, and I've not annoyed friends by being late for some time now. But I do think of it as a work in progress. I'm not there yet. Timers help a bit, so does realistic scheduling, and resisting the urge to fit in just one more job.

Just to say, I did get to the meeting on time. I was cutting it to the bone, though, which I have a very, very bad habit of doing, when I'm feeling tired and icky like I was yesterday. And as for the Internet, well, that for UP people is like a biscuit tin to a bulimic.

(Timer beeps). Time to go!

maisiejoe123 Tue 05-Mar-13 12:07:25

Lots of people saying that hate people being late and yet so many people do it. When a lunch appointment is 1300 that's what it means especially if others are coming too....

And they always blame the children.....

Come on - who is one of the many many people who always turn up late for appointments. You know who you are...

Is it really you are disorganised and couldnt care....

Quenelle Tue 05-Mar-13 12:57:30

My DH always makes us late when we're going out. He manages to get his clothes ironed, shower, ponce about and dress himself in time, but he always, always finds that he desperately needs a poo, just as we're about to walk out the door.

My mum is habitually late, she's known for it. I don't think she's disorganised, or thinks her time is more important than others'. I genuinely think she has no idea of the actual physical length of time. She will think it takes eg ten minutes to go and pick up Auntie (who is not very mobile) from the other side of town, drop her off in another town 4 miles away and come back to her house. How can that be so? Simple physics will tell you that journey is not achievable in ten minutes.

Either that or she is just eternally optimistic.

DoctorWhoFan Tue 05-Mar-13 13:05:56

Can't stand it. It is Rude, Rude, Rude!!!

I have a friend, whom I utterly adore, but he is ALWAYS late. I never arrange to meet him unless it's at his house (in which case he can't fuck it up!) or at my house (in which case I don't put dinner on til I know he's "10 minutes away" - meaning I have about half an hour to get things rocking and rolling). It's only because I value him as a friend, and know that he values me that I put up with it. He just is useless when it comes to knowing how long things are going to take. I've learned to accept it with him, but only cos I love him to bits.

Otherwise, if they do it to me too many times, they get dumped. End of. Years ago I had a friend that was perpetually 3 hours late, and this happened on a couple of occasions when I was meeting her at tube stations in London...SO rude. She got dumped!

Unless there is an utter emergency I am always on time (or a bit early). If I'm going to be late, I call and let people know. Unlike said friend above, who never called to say she was going to be late and if I tried to call her, her mobile was always straight to answerphone....GRRRRR! Makes me want to spit just thinking about it!

Oooh...rant over, sorry! blush

mountains Tue 05-Mar-13 13:27:46

I too am one of these terminally late people; well, late for work and often school, not for meet-ups or appointments. I find it acceptable to be 5mn late for work - but then I don't mind not taking the half an hour break I'm entitled to in my 12-hour shift if it's busy, and i don't check to make sure I'm paid overtime if I stay 2 hours behind helping others with their stuff; So it's more like flexible working really grin (although there isn't such a thing in place, and I AM supposed to be on time.) I don't expect to be pulled up for being disorganised, when in return I'm quite helpful. My employer and I, we are not petty grin There would be no reason to take it personally because I myself don't mind waiting. I seem to be waiting all the time, at the doctor's, late trains, kids dragging heels on the walk back from school... It's not convenient, yes, and practically I can understand one might want to not organise things with people who turn up hours late, but still I can't see a point in feeling insulted. Unless the behaviour is being accompanied by general thoughtlessness...in which case, lateness or not, the friendship was always going to be short-lived. I wouldn't want my friend to worry about being half an hour late to meet me, actually. But I guess if my friend looked like she didn't care, then it probably would be because she doesn't grin I don't have such breezy people in my life, though.

FakePlasticLobsters Tue 05-Mar-13 14:00:53

This is going to be discussed on Matthew Wright tomorrow.

Quenelle Tue 05-Mar-13 14:05:26

Oh God. I hope he doesn't mention DH's need to poo.

LaQueen Tue 05-Mar-13 14:23:21

I think there is definitely an element of Power Play, within UP.

Every single time, every sodding single time we eat Sunday lunch at the PILs, FIL simply has to disappear off, somewhere else in the house, just as MIL is putting the food on the table. He's usually absent for just under 10 minutes, just enough time for the food to have gone tepid. Yuck.

MIL always gives him warning, that the food is just about ready...and, as if by magic, FIL immediately goes and absents himself.

No. One. Ever. Says. A. Single. Word. In. Protest.

When it was FIL 60th birthday, the family were all assembled in the garden, BBQ food all ready, DDs holding a cake for him, every waiting...and waiting...and waiting...as FIL faffed about, and sat about inside the house for nearly 2 hours.

He knew we were all waiting for him. He feckin knew it. Several times MIL tip-toed inside, and tentatively suggested that he might like to come outside soon....but, he liked to think of us all dancing attendence on him.

Well, I didn't dance attendence. After 2 hours of waiting in their garden, starving hungry because no one dared eat without Birthday Boy...I'd had enough. I calmly collected my bag and car-keys, and drove home - obviously, having a very heated, whispered argument with DH as I got into the car.

But, life is too short to pander to such arrant twats.

Katnisscupcake Tue 05-Mar-13 14:32:51

My BF was always late when we were going out on a Saturday night, so if we had to be somewhere by 8pm, I would tell her that she had to be there for 7.30pm.

Roll on a few years, I have DD and she doesn't have DC yet, so I'm getting my own back... With the best planning in the world, I am normally still finishing getting ready to go out when she gets here and she seems to have managed to get here on time EVERY time we go out!

GreenLeafTea Tue 05-Mar-13 14:40:07

I wanted to explain about my previous job. I could do the job fine and was never late for work but a few times a year we had to go for training at HQ and they moved HQ to a different city after I started.

To get to the training I had to drop of DS at his nursery at 8am which is the earliest they could take him, drop DD off at daycare near the train station which cost a fortune but her regular carer couldn't take her before 9am, then rush to catch the train which I couldn't miss as there wasn't another for 30 minutes. Then I had to rush across town to get another train at a different station and walk to HQ in an unfamiliar city.

One time there were roadworks between the 2 train stations so I had to go a different way and got lost so missed my connection. When I arrived at HQ 10 minutes late the guy had locked the door to the meeting room and wouldn't let me attend. He also refused to refund my train fare ( which they usually pay for training) or pay my overtime as I didn't attend. I definitely wasn't the one on a power trip that morning!

I couldn't afford to lose the job but I hated going for training after that because no matter how organized I was I just used to lie awake worrying I had forgotten something or if something would go wrong. I'm so glad I don't work there anymore. In other jobs my bosses have always said they appreciate my positive attitude and ability to be flexible.

SpareHeadThree Tue 05-Mar-13 14:43:09

Just seen on Facebook that this very topic is to be discussed on the Matthew Wright show tomorrow...

GreenLeafTea Tue 05-Mar-13 15:21:11

LaQueen, why didnt you just eat? You all could have eaten the food and left the cake until he came out.

My husband also arses around at dinner time but we just start without him. He comes pretty quickly then.

LaQueen Tue 05-Mar-13 15:23:26

Oh, that could never, ever be done green because that might offend FIL...hmm

Yfronts Tue 05-Mar-13 15:39:55

My IL's leave late to all functions and drive like nutters, arriving at their destination having had a few close misses and v stressed. Of course I'd rather they were late and arrived safely but actually it would be much better for them to leave early and have a relaxing drive down.

My brother is always late and we always tell him we are meeting half an hour early and he will usually arrive only 10 mins after us.

Yfronts Tue 05-Mar-13 15:41:57

The worst is waiting in for IL's who are 'popping in' on route to Scotland. In the past we have waited in all day only for them to pop in about 5pm. These days I just give them my mobile number and ask them to buzz me half an hour before they arrive so I can be home.

GreenLeafTea Tue 05-Mar-13 16:02:53

Actually that's what we did last time sil came, just took the kids to the park and she called us when she arrived.

LaQueen, take some sandwiches next time and just tuck in while everyone is standing around like lemons waiting for him to show.

CrapBag Tue 05-Mar-13 16:13:56

I don't understand people like your FIL LaQueen, they clearly thinks the whole world should wait for them. Good on you for just leaving at the BBQ. Arrogant tosser! I certainly wouldn't pander to twats like that. Your MIL should bloody tell him to get out there, not tiptoe in suggesting he may like to join them soon!

LaQueen Tue 05-Mar-13 16:21:50

Crap you're preaching to the choir...but, I stand alone in my defiance of FIL's crapness.

In private DH freely acknowledges FIL's crapness...but, out of consideration for his Mum's feelings, he refuses to tackle him.

LaQueen - your FIL is EXACTLY how my grandad used to be!! What makes people so fucking rude awkward?

PukeCatcher Tue 05-Mar-13 17:15:37

Ooh ooh, they were talking about this on Loose Women today, I don't watch it, it was just on honest...

maisiejoe123 Tue 05-Mar-13 17:18:26

Its attention seeking. I would have started and FIL could have joined when he was ready....

Shame there was no food left. Hey ho!

LaQueen Tue 05-Mar-13 19:40:38

"What makes people so fucking rude awkward?

Buxton well, I suspect they are an only child, growing up totally doted on and pandered to, by their Mum...who then goes on to marry someone who is a complete doormat, who carries on pandering to them for the next 45 years...

LaQueen Tue 05-Mar-13 19:42:59

Maisie actually, basically FIL just didn't want to be there, one bit. He is not remotely bothered about Family Get Togethers, never has been.

He didn't want to be there. I knew he wouldn't want to be there. More fool MIL for trying to delude herself, for the 1001 time, that she was married to a normal, reasonable, fucntioning husband - and more fool DH and his siblings, for colluding in her foolishness.

Ah, shame I missed it today Puke - friend's birthday lunch instead smile

webweaverToo Wed 06-Mar-13 01:06:11

In the dim and distant past (aka my selfish youth) I was a chronic UP. Awful. Completely awful. Turned up late to everything, rushed in late to lectures at Uni every single day, made my friends wait for me all over the place - you know the story.

One day I kept my best friend waiting for me in town for a full hour and a half before finally strolling in, expecting to be forgiven as usual (in fact I don't think I even saw it as an offence that one needed to be forgiven for!).

Only this time she didn't forgive - she absolutely laid into me instead. She told me how incredibly selfish and self-centered I was being, and asked me why I thought my time was more valuable than hers. How dare I waste an hour and a half of her time while I faffed around doing whatever it was I was doing, when she could have been doing something useful instead of standing outside in the cold waiting for me.

It was something of a revelation (I told you I was selfish and thoughtless in those days) - and it did the trick. Now I'm almost always early or on-time, very rarely late (and extremely stressed out by the thought of being late) and it really pisses me off when people are late and make me wait.

I think it's rude, selfish and thoughtless to be late on a regular basis, and I agree with many posters who've said that what it says to the person waiting for you is that "my time is more important than your time". Certainly, as a reformed UP myself, I know that this was true for me.

Thumbwitch Wed 06-Mar-13 01:29:15

LaQ - I'm actually surprised you lasted 2h. I'd have been into the food after 1, and if I got told not to, been gone at that point. But I appreciate that you've had to put up with FIL's shit for some time. Your MIL is insane to collude with him in his unreasonableness - if he wants to be late for dinner/food/party, his problem - but DO NOT make every other guest fucking suffer for it! shock His manners might be bad, but hers are atrocious!

lisianthus Wed 06-Mar-13 03:13:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaQueen Wed 06-Mar-13 08:20:14

Thumb I know...I suffered for the first hour, then the second hour comprised of DH and I having a heated, whispered argument, with me threatening to go...

When I finally left, MIL started crying FFS, and trying to make me feel guilty for spoiling the party. WTAF hmm

MIL is pathologically afraid of any confrontation, and utterly refuses to confront FIL in anyway.

Her last 2 birthday dinners, have been accompanied by FIL arriving late to the restuarant (he was drinking in pub next door)...and then him buggering off, after the starter. I shit you not hmm

It's one of the weirdest, screwed up, dysfunctional marriages you're ever likely to witness. But MIL insists FIL is a good DH, because he has never raised his hand to her, and he's always paid the mortgage on time...

LaQueen Wed 06-Mar-13 08:25:11

lisi I feel your pain.

DH will announce 'Right, are we going then...?' and so the DDs and I dutifully go and get our coats and shoes on, and stand by the back door. 5 mins later, I go to find DH and he still gazing intently at his lap-top, feet up on the sofa hmm

Then, there's the whole big, buzzy, huffy, faffing about...and, I spend the car journey, feeling stressed and resentful.

Ironically, this behaviour has been much improved, since I recently just calmly ushered the DDs into the car, and we drove off...5 minutes later DH rings my mobile 'Where are you all?'

I was incredibly restrained, refused to get arsey, just explained sweetly that we'd all been too hungry to wait for him, and thought it would be okay for him to follwo on behind, as clearly his lap-topping was really imperative.

QuickLookBusy Wed 06-Mar-13 09:03:44

lisi I would refuse to let myself and dc be in a car when you know the driver will drive too fast. A speeding ticket may be the least of your problems.

We have recently lost someone very close to us due to a speeding driver. She was 17 years old, such a waste of a life. All for the sake of trying to get somewhere a little bit quicker. It honestly is not worth itsad

Can't you insist on driving if you know he will speed?

Thumbwitch Wed 06-Mar-13 10:24:08

LaQ - I like your style! grin
Your MIL must have had a REALLY low bar set for her as to what constituted a good DH then, if those are her criteria. hmm

Quicklookbusy - sorry to hear about your loss - tragically avoidable. sad

rainbow2000 Wed 06-Mar-13 10:57:15

My friend is like this if you agree to meet at 7 she only leaves her house at 7.
I told her the last time i wouldnt wait for her and funny enough i havent heard from her since.
Her loss really.But people who are constantly late really irk me.They have absolutley no respect for the people left waititng

MrsSonky Wed 06-Mar-13 13:06:06

My DFIL kept everyone waiting for an hour for the wedding breakfast (my wedding). He'd buggered off after the ceremony, drinks and nibbles to watch the cricket. DH was furious. MIL laughed it off...

LaQueen Wed 06-Mar-13 13:18:08

Mrs my MIL always tries to 'laugh it off' - but really, she's just frantically trying to save face. Because, if she admitted how angry/upset his behaviour made her, then people would (quite naturally) question why she doesn't actually do something about it.

She knows that she has absolutely no power over FIL, because he doesn't care what she thinks/feels - and, so pretends that she's okay with what he does.

Very, very sad, actually.

LaQueen Wed 06-Mar-13 13:19:21

Thumb Oh, her standards are so low, you have to dig down to find them...

Thumbwitch Wed 06-Mar-13 13:23:03

sad

Titchyboomboom Wed 06-Mar-13 13:36:43

Sil always up to an hour late so we now tell her a different time!! Ha ha .. The fact that it is EVERY time makes me grrrrrrrr

DontmindifIdo Wed 06-Mar-13 21:21:29

MrsSonky - Why didn't you just go ahead without him? It's not like the father of the groom has to say anything or have any ceremonial role. See, sometimes the big problem with UP is other people fit round them rather than make them miss out.

curryeater Thu 07-Mar-13 15:16:40

AGH I shouldn't be on mn, but for some reason I have blanked out MIL's consistent and appalling lateness up to now, and now I can't resist coming on here and ranting about it.

Day before DP's birthday - was going to be quiet one, just us - MIL invites herself over - ok, fair enough, she is his mum, tell her "great! come for birthday cake at about 4"
Next day: make DP's birthday cake with small children. They are dying to do the candles (and eat it obv). It cools, we ice it, they go mad with anticipation.
No MIL.
No MIL.
No MIL.
Children whine.
Give children bits of cucumber and apple.
Children whine. put on Peppa Pig
No MIL.
Quarter to 6 - MIL shows up. Can't serve cake to small children at this time, so invite MIL to dinner so that we can all have cake and candles after dinner.
MIL accepts. I go into kitchen to scare up a bit of extra food.
Message arrives with me in kitchen 5 minutes later that MIL is not hungry and will not stay to dinner after all.
Come out of kitchen to find MIL rather huffily gathering her things and giving off appearance of being disappointed not to be offered cake.
We wave her off happily and go and have dinner and cake.

Who was right? Who was wrong?
Anyone who thinks I should have served cake at 5.45, to un-dinnered small children, to please MIL, you and I will have WORDS

DontmindifIdo Thu 07-Mar-13 16:09:03

You were wrong - you should have called MIL at 4:15 to find out where she was, if you got voicemail, left a message saying you are doing cake and candles at 4:30pm. Then done cake and candles without her. "UP will only learn to modify their behaviour if they miss out on things" is the general concensus of this thread.

Next year, tell her you are lighting them at exactly 4pm. She misses it, she misses it. Make sure you tell your DH that you are doing things at set times and he should check his mother knows when those are, then go ahead and do them at set times with a breezy, "it's such a shame your mum wasn't able to make it, I wonder why she didn't call to say she wasn't coming?" (if she then turns up 1hour 45 minutes later you can look all surprised that "gosh, I thought you'd be here nearly 2 hours ago! We just assumed you weren't coming." - keep it up, she'll either learn to be on time or at least call you to get you to delay.)

WorriedTeenMum Thu 07-Mar-13 19:03:20

You have my sympathies curryeater. The whole idea that 4pm actually means 4pm seems to pass some UP by. Some actually see this as a sort of silly affectation. They live by cottonwool time and happily ignore that others, for many reasons, need to be more structured.

My DPiL have got progressively worse over the years. As they and then their friends have retired they have forgotten the need to have things done within a fixed time. If they get up late then they simply time shift their whole day back couple of hours and then start running late even on the revised timetable.

Funnily enough DM has actually got better. The problems of old age mean that she has to take medication to a precise timetable. This makes her much more attached to alarms going off to remind her to take this or that. So long as we fit in with the medication timetable (which of course we do) then there is no problem!

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Mar-13 01:23:20

Curryeater - absolutely correct to have NOT cut the cake at that time. MIL's loss. NO point in her having a huff - she should have bloody well turned up earlier!

Ledkr Fri 08-Mar-13 07:51:36

We have a weekend holiday with late pils which will probably result in some extreme annoyance on my part. We have the two dds one of whom is 2 and needs a regular bedtime or wakes all night and is an early riser.
Pil bil sil and their dps are notorious at being late for everything so it will probably be midday before anyone is ready to go out and if we've been up since dawn I will not be waiting.
They just don't seem to care. At a close family wedding they had tea and biscuits before going to the reception and missed the photographs. I was really shocked.
If they come to stay they are often two to three hrs late which causes all sorts of problems as one of us needs to be here to let them in.
Even the grandparents moan about them but I've seen them they make no effort to be on time eg have to eat shower drink tea etc rather than put themselves out to be on time.
A huge problem for us is their reluctance to leave after a visit so for example a weekend visit can result in them not leaving until 7.30 Sunday which is so annoying a when we are trying to get ready for the week ahead. I wonder if overstaying is in the same vein as lateness.

QuickLookBusy Fri 08-Mar-13 08:34:37

Why are so many people pandering to late PIL? I really don't get it. Yes wait for someone for say 20 mins, phone them/tell them you are going ahead with plans anyway. They will either start arriving on time or continue being late- but you and your young dc will not be inconvenienced.

My PIL are always late, up to an hour, it didn't bother me until we had dc. Then we started to just get on with our plans. I wouldn't make a young child wait for 2 hours for their lunch/a piece of birthday cake.
I also used to make sure DDs had eaten something before we went to their house for meals because I knew we would be kept waiting way beyond their meal times.

Ledkr Fri 08-Mar-13 08:43:36

I don't pander to them anymore we just get in with our day. I've toughened up since we last visited them arrived around two after long car journey and didn't get offered food until I asked for the dc and then had nothing suitable for toddler at all. Fuming. I had to walk to the shops.
We were going skating at Xmas and they faffed about do much that we were running out if time so I zoomed off with dd1 and left them to it.

WorriedTeenMum Fri 08-Mar-13 13:50:55

QuickLookBusy - the problem I feel now is that DPiL are elderly and DH & I dont really want to upset them. We were more strict about timekeeping when DCs were small.

Now we minimise the times when we are exposed to their tardiness. Sadly this means that we limit the times we visit them and they visit us. If they phone to say they expect to be in the area on such and such a day we will only say we will be in if we will be able to deal with them saying they will arrive mid afternoon but in fact arrive early evening.

They want to be able to just pop in but we have had to make it clear that we need notice as they dont just arrive late they then wont leave!

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