Are the right wing media trying to make Heather Frost (council six-bedroom eco-home) top herself?

(79 Posts)
sunnyO Fri 22-Feb-13 23:53:40

And then what? cost the taxpayer even more by kids going into care?

It is relentless. I haven't stopped hearing about this woman and her children for ages now. There is NO way them kids are not paying the price at school. Their pictures are up!.

Heather Frost does not seem very bright and that is why the media have even been able to get interviews with her. She has been incredibly exploited.

This thread is not the rights and wrong of benefits - that has all been done. It is how the media can get away with this type of bullying of an individual. Give the woman a break! Even her Father is on it! below is his interview.

'Don't give my lazy daughter a £400,000 home.......make her get off her backside and work!' The father of notorious benefits mother speaks for Britain
Heather Frost, 37, lives in two houses which have been knocked together
Father, Roy Frost, has condemned his daughter as 'lazy'
The 72-year-old worked his whole life, including a stint in the RAF
Has seven children in one house, while the rest live with her in the other
Now Tewkesbury council has agreed to build her six-bedroom eco-home
Family own a horse and spend £200-a-month on stable fees

Heather Frost’s new ‘eco-home’ is, to use estate agent speak, a stunning contemporary living space in a sought-after location.
The house, which is still a few months off completion, has six bedrooms, three bathrooms and a huge living/dining area, ideal for entertaining.
The rear of the £400,000 property, near Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, offers fine views over fields stretching to the Malvern Hills in the distance. Yes, there’s a railway line at the bottom of the garden, but you can’t have everything, can you?

This week, a storm broke over the house — which is being built for her and her 11 children at taxpayers’ expense — when she coolly informed her local newspaper that the property was being built to her own specification, and that if she wasn’t happy with any aspect of the design, it would be changed accordingly.

Disappointed: Roy Frost has condemned his daughter's lifestyle as he had worked for 50 years including a stint in the RAF
Wearyingly, that is almost certainly true, for the good burghers of Tewkesbury Borough Council are bending over backwards to please 37-year-old Miss Frost, who has never done a day’s work in her life, currently occupies two council houses knocked into one (which she says is too cramped) and is quite content to let the taxpayer foot the bill for her household’s day-to-day expenses.
Indeed, so well does Miss Frost do on benefits that she treated her current partner to flying lessons and has the money for her own horse, Annie, which is ridden by her 16-year-old daughter and whose upkeep apparently costs around £200 a month.
Few people, if anyone, have come out in support of Miss Frost, who first fell pregnant when she was 14. So this week the Mail sought out her father, to seek his views.
Perhaps his daughter has been misunderstood? Is she perhaps a well-meaning woman who suffers from an overabundance of maternal feeling which has led to her having so many children by a variety of fathers — up to five?
Not according to Royston Frost, 72, who is angry and ashamed of his daughter. Indeed, he confesses that even he doesn’t know the identity of the fathers of two of his daughter’s 11 children.
‘I didn’t tell my daughter to have 11 kids,’ he says. ‘I tried to stop her at five, but you can’t tell someone in their 20s what to do.
‘Ever since she had her first child, she hasn’t been able to work because she’s had to look after all those kids.
‘She should have got off her backside and got a bloody job like the rest of us. She’s on all the benefits she can get.

Heather, 37, has had eleven children (pictured), two of which have had kids of their own.

Heather with daughters Page, 11, Till, 3 and Daisy, 5. She said that the new house will be built to her exact specifications
‘Don’t get me wrong, she’s a good mum and her kids are always clean — she just has too many of them.
‘I can’t stand what she’s become. She’s lazy. I didn’t raise her to be lazy. I’m not lazy. I’ve worked all my life until retiring five years ago.
‘The worst thing about the whole mess is the horse. How the hell can she afford to keep a horse when some people struggle even to put food on the table?’

Family rift: Heather's (left) dad Roy Frost (right) has condemned the mother's lack of work ethic and that she continues to take from the taxpayer
Mr Frost says his daughter does not deserve the 1,850 sq foot eco-house that the council is so diligently building for her.
‘They should give it to a family that really needs it,’ he pronounces. ‘The house she lives in at the moment is a state. I hope she respects what the council has done for her, and that she’ll look after the new house. But I know she won’t.’
Following an appearance on daytime television to defend herself, Miss Frost has been lying low at the council property where the family currently live in the village of Churchdown, Gloucestershire.

Heather gave interview on ITV's Daybreak to try and defend her actions

Heather's 16-year-old daughter Angel claims that she pays for the horse, Annie, herself

Heather's appearance on television caused an outcry across the country
Her current accommodation comprises two council houses with an adjoining door on the ground floor.
On the front drive is a battered blue Robin Reliant, with a note on the dashboard saying ‘tax in post’, a motor bike, a white minibus which Miss Frost claims has been loaned to her by a friend, and a skip.
The back garden is strewn with rubbish.
Miss Frost may be a loving mother, but no one could ever accuse her of being house-proud.
When the Mail called on her, she came to the door still wearing the make-up from her appearance on Daybreak, with pink hair and missing front teeth. She declined to be interviewed, saying she’d ‘had enough’ of all the fuss.

Annie the horse is the latest addition to the Frost family, and costs around £200 a month to keep
There was no sign of her partner, 57-year-old James Martin (known as Jake), a jobless lorry driver who is the father of her five youngest children. He may also be the father of another child, whose paternity appears to have been under dispute (more of which later).
Heather says they are still together, but admits he does not live at the family home anymore. She told one reporter that she was married, but the Mail has been unable to find a marriage certificate.
Heather Frost was born in Cheltenham in 1975 to Royston Frost and his wife Pamela, who had two other children, Deborah, now 44, and Neil, 42. Royston spent five years in the RAF in his 20s and then worked for the next 40 years in factories around Tewkesbury.
Around the time of Heather’s birth, the couple divorced, but they remarried in 1977. They split up and divorced a second time, and Royston remarried in 2003, to a woman called Coral Allen, with whom he lives in Tewkesbury.
When she was 14, Heather fell pregnant with her first child, Sophie, with her then-boyfriend, John O’Reilly, then 23, and gave birth in July 1991. (Sophie, now 21, has a two-year-old son, Ashley).
Two years later, in August 1993, Heather gave birth to a son, Toby, now 19, whose father — according to the child’s grandfather, Royston — is a man called Toby Stevens. (Toby junior now has a one-year-old son of his own, Tyler.)
Three years after that, in October 1996, Heather’s 16-year-old daughter, Angel, was born. Royston Frost has no idea who Angel’s father is.
In July 1998, Heather gave birth to her second son, Jay, now 14. According to Royston Frost, Jay’s father is an ‘Asian shopkeeper’, but he knows no more than that.

The council has knocked through two houses to create a larger one for the family, who have lived there for five years
Chloe, 13, arrived in February 2000. Royston Frost believes her father is John O’Reilly (the father of her first child), though on her birth certificate the father is not named.
These five children all have their mother’s surname.
A year later, in February 2001, Paige O’Reilly was born. Her name suggests the father is John O’Reilly, but her birth certificate does not name the father.
It is rumoured, in fact, that Jake Martin is Paige’s father. Indeed, last year, Miss Frost appeared on an episode of ITV’s The Jeremy Kyle show — wouldn’t you just know Heather Frost had been on Jeremy Kyle? — in which the paternity of one of her children was discussed.
According to birth records, Jake Martin is the father of Heather’s five youngest girls — Emily, who turned ten on Tuesday, Bethany, eight, Ruby, seven, Daisy, five, and Tilly, three.
Royston Frost says Heather told him that Jake Martin had wanted a baby boy, which may be some sort of explanation as to why she kept having more children.
She has also said she doesn’t believe in abortion. Or contraception, clearly.

Their front garden, which holds a skip, a battered mini van, an old Robin reliant and a new car

The back of the property is strewn with rubbish and a giant trampoline for the children
The two eldest children no longer live with their mother. As well as nine children in the two adjoining properties, there is a macaw called Jake, a black Labrador called Katie, two Chihuahuas called Pebble and Teddy, a cat called Kit Kate, two guinea pigs, Bubble and Squeak, a rabbit called Eddie and three goldfish.
So that’s nine children, a mini zoo and Annie the horse in a paddock down the road.
Just how does Miss Frost afford it? Tewkesbury Borough Council declined to reveal how much money the family receives in benefits.
However, the Mail logged on to the Department of Work and Pension’s benefits entitlement calculator and entered Miss Frost’s details, such as the number of children under 20 not in work and the fact that she is a lone parent and therefore ‘excused from working’.
The calculator totted up a sum of £865.92 per week owed to Miss Frost, made up of £71 income support, £526.40 child tax credit, £100 housing benefit, £27.62 council tax benefit and £140.90 child benefit.

Plans for the new £400,000 family home that heather claims she has complete control over
Over a four-week period, Miss Frost will receive £3,463.68.
Over the course of a year, that figure will give Miss Frost an annual income of £45,027.84. To generate that level of net income if Miss Frost were, perish the thought, in work, she would need a gross annual salary of £66,000.
Which explains a lot — such as how Heather can afford a pony for Angel, although Angel claims she pays for the animal with money she earns from ‘babysitting’. Is she referring to babysitting her siblings?
It may also explain how Miss Frost had the money to pay for Jake Martin to have microlight flying lessons, which cost up to £115 an hour, for Christmas one year, according to Martin’s 34-year-old daughter, Leanne, from another relationship.
For her own part, Miss Frost claims she lives modestly and limits her children to ‘£100 each’ at Christmas. Times that by 11. That’s £1,100 spare cash for presents, then.
Heather has been living at her two-house council home for the past five years. According to her father, one previous property the family lived in burned down.
‘She already had one house that burned down, and they were lucky then,’ he says. Mr Frost did not elaborate on the circumstances of the fire.

The Mail calculated that the Frost family would receive over £3000 per month in benefits, giving them an annual salary in excess of £45,000
The new eco-house, which the family is due to move into in June, has a modern, energy efficient design, and has been built using natural, locally-sourced materials. Extra-large windows will fill the house with natural light.
Miss Frost told the local paper: ‘It’s being built especially for me. If I get there and I say to them I don’t like it, or it’s too small, then they will just have to build me a bigger one, won’t they?’
Perhaps the vista of the Malvern Hills won’t be to her liking. Or she might decide she needs a house with a stable block for Annie.
Referring to her current accommodation, she said: ‘We got this three-bed house and they knocked a doorway through to the one next door.
‘It was meant to be for four months but we’ve been here for five years now. It is a nightmare because you can’t keep an eye on the children in the other house.’
Tewkesbury Borough Council came up with the idea for the eco-house after selling a plot of land in the town to Severn Vale Housing association for a discounted price of £210,000.
The condition of the sale was that one of 15 homes they were building on the site would be given to Miss Frost and her family.
But Heather’s father, for one, says she should make do with her current property.
‘What they should do, is the council should properly make those two houses into one.’
Two years ago, Miss Frost was diagnosed with cervical cancer and the treatment is said to have made her sterile. ‘That was a blessing in disguise, if you ask me,’ says Mr Frost.
‘I know it’s my daughter, and I would do anything for her, but the damage has been done. She’s got 11 children, and that can’t be undone.’
This week, the mother-of-11 defended herself, saying she’d been planning to set up her own business running a shop, but then fell ill.
She claimed she was having second thoughts about the new house. ‘I’m not sure whether to take it because of all this s***.’
It’s now 50/50, she said, as to whether they will move in.
If you were to place a bet, what would you put your money on?

I'm not sure repeating a hate-filled lynch mob promoting rag of a piece of 'journalism' is the way to help this unfortunate woman.

sneezingwakesthebaby Sat 23-Feb-13 00:03:59

Christ! Couldn't you have just linked to it?

I do agree though!

CloudsAndTrees Sat 23-Feb-13 00:05:59

Trying to make her top herself, or trying to point out how ridiculously generous our benefits system can be?

andubelievedthat Sat 23-Feb-13 00:06:34

The majority of people interviewed by a tabloid ,are paid >usually you will be required to sign some sort of disclaimer i.e.they can and will print what they feel is the story that will sell most copy, and you have no come back re same. most pics are likewise .What is happening re this lady"s situation is a reflection of the society we live in , the tabloids are holding a mirror up and no one enjoys the reflection ,next week it will be someone/thing else.At least J.Kyle has "specialist help" backstage(?)and old black joe ,well he just keeps pickin" cotton.

usualsuspect Sat 23-Feb-13 00:09:35

They are using her to get the benefit haters frothing that's for sure.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 23-Feb-13 00:12:17

Apparently though all i needed to do to get a council property is pop out more sprogs, it seems one isnt enough, i need another 10 hmm

LahleeMooloo Sat 23-Feb-13 00:12:25

45k in benefits? Thought they were capping them at 26k? That is pretty sickening.

Softlysoftly Sat 23-Feb-13 00:15:26

I think she's been feckless having children she can't pay for but to my mind pregnant at 14 to a 23 year old is cold abuse pure and simple. Is it any wonder when she was abused and her father hates her she turned out how she did?

So yes as a Tory supporting, benefits reducing believer even I say they should lay off the poor women and mainly stop destroying the lives and chances of the children.

Oh and andubelievedthat awesome song reference

ReturnOfEmeraldGreen Sat 23-Feb-13 00:15:28

"Times that by 11" ? Not only are the Daily Mail FUCKING BASTARDS but they employ 'journalists' and 'sub-editors' who can't write a fucking sentence. BASTARDS!

Softlysoftly Sat 23-Feb-13 00:16:16

*child not cold ffs

usualsuspect Sat 23-Feb-13 00:17:31

It's working as well.

midastouch Sat 23-Feb-13 00:18:07

Im not sure that she'd top herself, seems like shes got quite a nice life if its true! However i do feel sorry for her kids at school, its not there fault that there mother is a lazy .......

Softlysoftly Sat 23-Feb-13 00:19:12

Can you be lazy and have 11 "clean and presentable" children?

Is rather go to work!

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 23-Feb-13 00:21:15

Its lazy popping out 11 kids and expecting benefits to support them.

MikeOxardAndWellard Sat 23-Feb-13 00:21:53

I think they are just trying to sell newspapers. They aren't trying to do anything to the woman, they couldn't give a crap about her. It'll be someone else next week.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 23-Feb-13 00:23:26

It used to be that idiot, who had a wife and gf and about 15 kids, he demanded a bigger house, i think he was on JK once.

scottishmummy Sat 23-Feb-13 00:32:18

Has she said she feels bullied or is that your opinion?who's assessed suicidality?you...
11kids and allegedly a £200 pm horse,well that's certainly a talkin point in recession
What Are you suggesting?that no one comment or speak of this in case s frost gets peeved...she hardly been circumspect she wasn't compelled to et dm et al in her home or to photograph her children.clearly she consented

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 23-Feb-13 00:32:49

How lovely that her dad said horrible things when he probably got paid £500 to do so,what a lovely parent and grand parent

Darkesteyes Sat 23-Feb-13 00:34:46

Just what i thought when i saw it Sock. Bet she had an emotionally abusive upbringing at the very least.

RedHotRudieParts Sat 23-Feb-13 00:42:08

Meh, she'll be screwed when the cap comes in and no doubt the bedroom tax will soon see off the house, don't see what all the fuss is about.

redplasticspoon Sat 23-Feb-13 00:49:59

It is pretty terrible.. but she did originally give them an interview. Why? Surely she knew that the DM would not portray a benefit claimant with 11 children in a positive light.

Tortington Sat 23-Feb-13 00:50:31

my understanding is that the current accommodation she is in is classed by her local authority to be temporary.

The local authority offered to build a house she didn't ask for it.

The questions for me here are - why is she in temporary accomodation which she has reportedly been in for 'a very long time'

The council have stated that by moving her to a new property this would free up two houses for people on the list.

the house which is being built, ( or custom built as the sun likes to put it) is being built in such a way as to turn it to two three bed properties when this woman is no longer eligible.

from what little i have gleened - i think she has 1 working 16 yo, an 18 yo, a 21 yo. she will not be recieving benefits for the 18 and 21 yo and probably not much for the 16 yo if anything. Then there is a 14 yo who might be working in as little as 18 months

moving this family means that their circumstances will change and this means the new changes to welfare reform will apply.

she will also be given a limited tenancy - dependng on the council it could be 2 years or 5 years, then it will be reviewed.

I have looked at the bedroom criteria - and the children they say are living there at the moment and i can't see how a 6 bedroom house is big enough

3 x 2 children of the same sex = 3 bedrooms
1 x teenage male = 1 bedroom
2 x different sex 16-19 classed as needing seperate bedrooms as they are adults = 2 rooms

there is no criteria for the 19 & 21 yo - so even though they are different sexes, lets opt for one bedroom - the minimum

then there is heather and her parter - 1 room

no idea where the grandchildren go.

but one of those older children is parent to the grandchildren i guess - and so are entitled to their own home - maybe they are moving out then?

Naysa Sat 23-Feb-13 00:57:54

Maybe if some one had have given this woman some help earlier in life this might not have happened.

If I was 14 and raped by a 23 man and subsequently gave birth to his child, growing up with what seems to be an EA father I don't think I would have grown up to be "normal".

Did no one think to help her before all of this happened? Did she get the help that she needed?

I feel sorry for this woman. What's done is done now. Do the media really expect a woman who has 11 children to just go out and get a job that would cover all of her costs?

Presumably she left school at 14?

How do the media expect a woman with less than GCSE grade education to get a job that pays £60000 a year?

Their time would be better spent talking about how we can prevent this happening again rather than lynching this woman.

These children can't be unborn. I just hope that one positive that comes out of this is that it won't happen again.

Tortington Sat 23-Feb-13 00:57:57

in 6 ( maybe 7) years the household will only be entitled to 3 beds, heather will be 42 and if fit for work, will be expected to do so, or receive very little in the way of support as her youngest child will then be 8

ohyeoflittlefaith Sat 23-Feb-13 01:07:35

Small detail, I know, but just to clarify, I live very close to the house that is being built for her and it does not have views of the Malverns and I can assure you that if any one of you had £400,000 to spend on property you would not spend it on that. There is a train line extremely close by and from what i can see from the road I doubt there will be much garden at all. It is not a mansion by any means in fact the small terrace of houses they are building are quite ugly.

Tortington Sat 23-Feb-13 01:09:29

and its a smokescreen - or rather more like a waving flashing beacon, beckoning us to look in its direction so we aren't looking at the real big picture which is the government are fucking us over.

the daily mail have a fucking cheek publicising this shit

Lord Rothermere estimated a whopping £730 million fortune by the Sunday Times Rich List 2011, including ownership of £547 million of the value of the Daily Mail Group. Was domiciled in France for tax purposes - i dont know whether this has changed due to france's recent tax banding ( he may have gone the way of gerard depardeu)

Tortington Sat 23-Feb-13 01:11:59
Naysa Sat 23-Feb-13 01:21:22

Custardo your link is not working for me

McNewPants2013 Sat 23-Feb-13 02:06:02

I really don't understand why this women is getting a bashing. Where is the fathers of these children.

MyCannyBairn Sat 23-Feb-13 05:56:11

Jesus fucking christ that's so full of venom. Really really vicious.

RedwingOnFire Sat 23-Feb-13 06:18:54

They don't see her as an actual person! The right wing media have been working for a few years now to dehumanise people, because it's easier to manipulate people into harming the most vulnerable in society if they're merely a negative label. Who wants to give money to a scrounger with a clown car womb when there are "deserving poor" like, for instance, cancer survivors. Oh dear, she's that too isn't she? And was a vulnerable child etc etc. Fuckers.

It's turned into a witch hunt, and now this woman's own father has lambasted her.

The way that I see it is that this woman was the victim of child abuse by getting pregnant at 14 to a man in his 20's. Why no intervention then? the father of this woman said ‘I tried to stop her at five, but you can’t tell someone in their 20s what to do.' no but you can help your 14 year old daughter who had been abused. You have failed as a parent.

This woman has little more than a primary school education, and has been failed left right and center. What happens when her kids leave home? It is sad more than anything.

What a dreadful father. Sounds like she had a far from ideal upbringing and an unstable childhood, and his reaction to her cancer is that it's a blessing. Parent of the year award for the smug bastard.

phantomhairpuller Sat 23-Feb-13 07:10:38

I don't agree with the way the kids photos have been plastered all over the papers. It's not their fault hmm
Drove past the half built 'mini-mansion' yesterday, it looks very nice so far I must say. Would cost you or I £400,000+ I'd bet confused

MrsKeithRichards Sat 23-Feb-13 08:46:24

The story ie what it is, that article is vile.

CoalDustWoman Sat 23-Feb-13 08:50:27

All new social housing must meet eco criteria.

hackmum Sat 23-Feb-13 08:51:35

It's vile. If people want to criticise the benefits system, that's up to them, but to target one woman like this is despicable. Who knows how vulnerable she is? Which of us would enjoy seeing articles about ourselves in which we're described as lazy scroungers in the national press? How must it feel for her children?

You might not like the fact that this woman has 11 children and is unemployed (and I agree, it's not an ideal state of affairs) but she has done nothing illegal. There are people out there who have done far worse stuff, but they don't receive this kind of vilification.

AuntieMaggie Sat 23-Feb-13 08:56:50

I read somewhere yesterday that she has only been on benefits for the past 6 or 7 years and is recovering from cervical cancer so can't work at the moment. If this is true and she has worked all her life (apparently she was going to start her own business before she got cancer) then it makes me really cross that the media are attacking her and her children in this way. And as for her own father... don't get me started.

HollyBerryBush Sat 23-Feb-13 08:59:28

Was she really on JK last year undergoing a DNA test for one of her brood?

These high profile cases are always designed toget the public up in arms about the whole welfare state. And it works a treat.

Situations like this annoy me because the state facilitates it. Something has gone horribly wrong if she wasn't given adequate contraceptive advice, given access to education as an adult and encouraged to make different choices with her life.

The whole thing will perpetuate. It's about time CBA was capped at 2 maybe 3 children.

However there is nothing in her life I would want.

AuntieMaggie Sat 23-Feb-13 09:03:25

The whole tone of that article makes me sick.

"She told one reporter that she was married, but the Mail has been unable to find a marriage certificate." so fecking what? its none of your business!

LynetteScavo Sat 23-Feb-13 09:11:08

She'd have been better off keeping her head down - posing for the paper and appearing on TV was never going to do her any favours. As already said she doesn't seem that bright, and the media are just abusing that, IMO.

LynetteScavo Sat 23-Feb-13 09:12:58

"It's about time CBA was capped at 2 maybe 3 children."

Why two or three? Why not one child? hmm

SkinnybitchWannabe Sat 23-Feb-13 09:13:20

Where's the childrens fathers in all this? Why aren't they providing for the children or are they a bunch of scroungers?
I've always been dead against women who pop so many kids out and expecting the tax payer to foot the bill but I think enough is enough.
It's the system that's at fault.
I wish papers would leave her, her football team, horse and parrot alone's boring me now.

LangenFlugelHappleHoff Sat 23-Feb-13 09:15:41

DM - pffft!

Just want to bring up the mini zoo comment. The woman has a few family pets, cat, dogs, rabbits...the norm. I can't believe they are even counting the fecking gold fish. Any thing to make it seem she is screwing people over.

Witch hunting at the DM's best. Wankers

HollyBerryBush Sat 23-Feb-13 09:16:37

Because with advances in medicine and peple living longer, we do need children to provide for us in our old age. Care homes wont be running themselves.

2 maybe 3 should suffice

SmilingHappyBeaver Sat 23-Feb-13 09:18:59

Maybe if her father had shown a bit more interest in her growing up she wouldn't have got pregnant at 14 by a 23 year old (why aren't the media going after the rapist?). What a worthless piece of shite her father must me.

And looking after 11 children... that is a job isn't it, a bloody massive one. I can only just get out of the house in the morning and I only have 3 grin. Personally I would not have made her choices, but I think her situation is exceptional, and i am proud to live in a country where we look after the most vulnerable in society and don't toss kids out onto the streets to starve.

Why does society put up with this type of misanthropy? Where are the fathers of the kids, the absent ones who shag about then fuck off? Why aren't the media going after them? Unbelievable.

peanutMD Sat 23-Feb-13 09:42:17

Heather gave an interview on Daybreak this week and put a lot of that straight but it seems to have been ignored.

1. There are 3 fathers, one of which is her current partner and is unemployed so unable to contribute anything more than minimal amounts to his children and the other two have had nothing to do with their children and won't contribute.

2. The horse was a gift from a friend which her daughter is responsible for.

3. She never said that she would just tell them to build another house if it was unsuitable, this has been fabricated.

4. She was in the process of setting up a store but was diagnosed with cervical cancer which left her unable to continue with the plans and the chance has not arisen again.

5. Heather has however since gone on to say that she may not accept the property on the ground that the media had printed revealing details including specific address which she believes may endanger her children.

I admit when I first read the story I thought she was vile but hearing her side has made me rethink and realise that her situation is far from ideal but there is always a reason behind it in her case it would seem that she has just had a bit of a rough ride.

So to summarise:

She is raped at 14 by a grown man, a man known to her family. He gets her pregnant and gets away with it.

Her own father is a creature.

She has ELEVEN children that she manages to keep clean(?)

She worked then got cancer so stopped working.

She's moving from temporary housing. Because it's temporary.

If she's lazy I'm a penguin!! She's raising an army of children. Wether you think she should have them or not is largely irrelevant. They're here now and she's taking care of them.

You show me a job that will cover child care costs for the 8 of her children that will need it!

I'm not saying she's a paragon but FFS the bashing is just vile.

mrsscoob Sat 23-Feb-13 10:03:47

I believe these stories come out so that when the government cut all the benefits and leave people in poverty the majority of people (mail/sun readers) won't complain and will be all for it as they have been manipulated and led to believe that this is mainly what their tax money goes on. The truth of the matter is this kind of situation is incredibly rare.

A little preachy but worth a read

fromparistoberlin Sat 23-Feb-13 10:25:12

what northern said!

I must say though i thought the same


i read Grazia only as every newspaper makes me spit blood

fluffygal Sat 23-Feb-13 10:33:33

There's a couple of things people have got wrong on this thread: The two oldest children do not live with her, so she has 9 children at home. The partner has 'moved out' but they are still together apparently. the 16 year old daughter doesn't work as such, she does a bit of babysitting for her mum and gets paid for it.

I can see both sides tbh, but she is only taking what she has been offered. It's the system at fault.

twofingerstoGideon Sat 23-Feb-13 10:39:33

Hollybush Because with advances in medicine and peple living longer, we do need children to provide for us in our old age. Care homes wont be running themselves.

2 maybe 3 should suffice

Ahh, so that's why we have children. So they can look after us in our old age hmm

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sat 23-Feb-13 10:43:12

The only thing I kind of agree with in that article are the comments about the upkeep of the property. It is her duty to keep that property and garden in good condition and not have rubbish strewn everywhere. That really narks me.

With regards to:-

The fathers - it is no ones business who they are, the media are out of order. Also, why the reference to the 'Asian shopkeeper'? 'Shopkeeper' would have sufficed.

Marriage certificate - how dare they go delving for that.

HoHo, they have to include "Asian", it's their duty to keep their racist readers frothing hmm <sarcasm intended>

It's a joke of a newspaper. I feel sorry for Heather. Oh, and caring for 11 children (plus grandchildren) is not lazy. Maybe not ideal, but not lazy. I'd rather work a 70 hour week!

HecateWhoopass Sat 23-Feb-13 11:03:03

What I don't understand is the number of people (I am talking generally - in the news, in the street, on the radio, on the net, etc) who are saying what she should have done, what she shouldn't have done, she should have worked, she shouldn't have had so many children, she shouldn't have made this decision, she should have done that.

For example, I was listening to the radio the other day and there was a phone in and the number of people who were saying these children shouldn't have been born was staggering!

Well, some, all, none... of that may be true, but unless someone has a time machine they've neglected to tell the world about - there is a woman here with 11 children. They exist. Now, we can all peer through the Retrospectascope and go on about choices that should or should not have been made but that doesn't change a thing and it is cruel to the children to make an example of this woman for political reasons. To basically parade her through the streets for the Good Folk to chuck eggs and tomatoes at her hmm

If there is something about the system that needs to be changed, so that people know that the money/housing/whatever that is available will only provide for X children/will only provide for the number of children that are there at the time the help is first requested and none born after that/<insert all the other possibilities here> then fair enough. Have that discussion. About a system. Discuss changing a system.

But I am very uncomfortable with the way this woman - and more importantly her children are being held up for a beating!

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sat 23-Feb-13 11:10:18

Agree with Hecate it's the system that needs addressing.

BoneyBackJefferson Sat 23-Feb-13 11:28:41


what we actually know is

"She has ELEVEN children that she manages to keep clean(?)

She worked then got cancer so stopped working.

She's moving from temporary housing. Because it's temporary."

The rest is assumption.

ApocalypseThen Sat 23-Feb-13 11:31:21

Why does the system need to be addressed? This woman's situation is so rare that she's been newsworthy for days - this is far from a common situation. I challenge anyone to come up with an alternative system that won't be far worse - and cause tremendous repression.

This is so rare that the only real reason to change things is to punish so-called immoral women. Change would only affect women and children, and I really think that that's something women need to consider before advocating stocks or Magdalen laundries or forced sterilisation or whatever ghastly scheme would be put in place.

LIZS Sat 23-Feb-13 11:37:03

Agree - her partner may or may not be living there, her daughter may or may not receive support for her child. DM has made sweeping assumptions as to her income by putting random figures into the online benefits calculator. She wouldn't cooperate with them (perhaps having a deal elsewhere or just wishing to be left alone) so they made the rest up and found her father for comments!

However, while I do think there is an element of returning to the stocks with this type of story, those most vulnerable to exploitation need to be careful not to make themselves targets by using the media in the first place. Where is the JK support system now ?

Well, no Boney that's not all.

I KNOW that when a 23 year old man impregnates a 14 year old child and does no prison time, he has raped her and gotten away with it. So that one can go back on the list.

I have my opinion on a man that sells poisonous shit to a newspaper about his own daughter too. But you're right, I'm assuming he's a prick. I don't know that for a fact.

HollyBerryBush Sat 23-Feb-13 11:49:00


Well I don't know about you but when I'm in my dotage I expect several generations behind me to still be running society effectively, be that bin man or brain surgeon.

Fact of the matter is: there are now more retired people than there are sub-16's. You eventually end up with an unsustainable demographic of old folks.

1 in 4 babies born this year have a projected life expectancy of 100 years.

It could be suggested that to support the needs of the elderly, society needs to produce more children - or alternatively we could take the Logans Run approach and stop over populating wink

ExpatAl Sat 23-Feb-13 11:54:47

The woman doesn't sound happy at all and I didn't see the interview. Only someone with a hole in their life has 11 children from 5, or however many, rubbish men. This isn't a good life however much bravado she shows. I just hope there are strong adults in the childrens lives - they will need a lot of support not to be equally damaged.

Whoknowswhocares Sat 23-Feb-13 12:49:41

Whether we like it or not, she is trapped on benefits. she brings home the equivalent of £66,000 gross salary in benefits, so in effect 'net' of childcare
Just how do people expect her to get a job that would bring in that PLUS the childcare? If any if us were in her situation, could we afford to do anything different?
Yes the system is too generous. Yes it needs amending.
But it is the system that is at fault, not the person. Yet the easy target is the person, so we bully and harass them while sidestepping the real issues

ApocalypseThen Sat 23-Feb-13 12:57:36

But explain how you'd amend the system. I know it's easy to breezily say that you'd amend it somehow, but what would you actually change?

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sat 23-Feb-13 13:05:22

The fathers/mothers of these children need to be held more accountable. They can not be allowed to walk away from their responsibilities. A parent may not want the ex partner contributing but if the parent is claiming benefits they are not in a position to dictate that. The father/partner should still have to contribute into the system regardless whether they are in the child's life or not. They may choose to walk away from the relationship but they shouldn't be allowed to dodge the financial responsibility of that parent/child responsibility.

Whoknowswhocares Sat 23-Feb-13 13:11:49

An upper cap on benefits regardless of the number of children would be a start.The average UK wage would seem fair? Wage earners have to decide on their family size based on how many they can provide for and house without overcrowding, so claimants should have to as well.
Meh, I thought that was being brought in? Or was that just another bloody sound bite?

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 23-Feb-13 13:12:42

That starts in April

Whoknowswhocares Sat 23-Feb-13 13:15:19

So all this bloody fuss and she will lose a great load of that money soon anyway? Jeez, what a waste if time and column space!

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sat 23-Feb-13 13:18:02

She might not lose the money. Hasn't an amount been put aside for special cases? Perhaps her circumstances might be reviewed and she will be classed as such. Who knows!

sneezingwakesthebaby Sat 23-Feb-13 13:20:14

I thought they weren't reducing it for big families that already exist just future big families to kind of deter (sp? Doesn't look right!) people from breeding forever for benefits. No clue where I read that though.

Rhiannon86 Sat 23-Feb-13 13:22:41

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Whoknowswhocares Sat 23-Feb-13 13:26:24

Just had a quick look. It seems that existing claimants are affected but that it is being slowly rolled out. Will cover all UK by this Sept
However, like the bedroom tax debacle, it sounds fair in principle, yet the government have found a way to implement it so that it screws the needy yet probably doesn't affect many of the graspers
I'll not be holding my breath that this will be any better

edam Sat 23-Feb-13 13:28:08

She's been turned into a bogeyman to distract everyone from what the government is doing (screwing the economy, as the ratings agencies have noticed) and from focusing on those who caused the crisis and still haven't been held to account.

Feel extremely sorry for her kids being the victims of this sort of hate-filled ranting by the national press.

Greensleeves Sat 23-Feb-13 13:43:48

The money she's receiving is fucking PEANUTS compared to the amount being stolen by corrupt bankers/wasted on "defence"/ploughed into stupid government schemes, most of which involve vandalising what remains of our public services

this kind of crap is designed to distract us from the real news. And it works every time.

Dawndonna Sat 23-Feb-13 13:44:09

Rhiannon Are you the great, great grandchild of Marie Stopes?

As for the rest, Leave the poor woman alone, she obviously has some difficulties. She was raped as a 14 year old. Whether she agreed to sex or not, it's still rape, a 23 year old has an, at least marginally, better idea of what he's doing. She probably slept with other people becuase she was looking for some sort of unconditional love, which she seems to have found in a man some twenty odd years older than her. This would suggest perhaps looking for unconditional love from a father who appears to a) have been in and out of her life, and b) is extraordinarily and imo harshly judgemental of his own daughter. Surely he should be offering help and support, but no, he seems happy to spout off to a newspaper about her.
I think the whole situation is incredibly sad, I also think that the benefit system is there for folk like her, folk who have slipped through the net of social services and have not been offered at a younger stage the help they need.
I say this as someone from a much wealthier background, both financially and culturally, whose step sister did much the same sort of thing for a while. Because we had the intellectual werewithal, social services were called and said step sister fitted with a coil after the birth of her second illegitimate child to unknown father. She is now the mother of five, the final three being the children of her partner, and due to counselling and the right help has held down a very high powered job in Australia for a number of years.

Greensleeves Sat 23-Feb-13 13:44:35

<didn't read edam's post blush>

edam Sat 23-Feb-13 14:45:19

don't worry greensleeves, nice to see I'm not the only one!

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