To wonder what makes some people truly nasty on public transport?

(101 Posts)
redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 19:28:06

I was taking dd, age 2, in a pushchair home from nursery today in the bus. Got on the bus, and this particular bus had a rather small pushchair/wheelchair area, with a woman standing so that I couldn't get the pushchair in. I said 'Excuse me please' and she didn't move, then said it a second time louder in case she didn't hear me - she looked at me and still didn't move. At this point a man who was sitting down with bags on the seats next to the pushchair area got up to make space to just about push dd in the space. (I apologised to him for having to move, and just to be clear - there were lots of seats available on the bus which the woman could have sat on).

A couple of stops later a second pushchair gets on, and the woman moves, but hits my dd in the head with her bag. It looked rather purposeful to me. DD said 'Ow' but didn't cry. I turned round to her 'You hit the baby in the head', she ignored me, no apology, I then said it a second time and then called dh for support as it made me quite upset that someone would treat dd in this way. I don't know what else I could have done, and wonder how someone could behave this way towards my dd. Please tell me I'm not BU, or what could I have done better?

buggerama Fri 22-Feb-13 19:31:16

You could have told her you couldnt believe how bloody rude she was, and publically embarressed her, thats what I would have done

WorraLiberty Fri 22-Feb-13 19:31:21

Are you sure she spoke English?

How was your DH able to help?

TheDemonShedMaster Fri 22-Feb-13 19:31:30

Oh, you did nothing wrong and you know it. Some people are utterly, utterly ignorant. For what it's worth, if she had behaved that way to me, we would have had a short conversation about manners...

zwischenzug Fri 22-Feb-13 19:31:57

You did well not to hit her in the head. I would struggle to be so restrained.

This person sounds fairly typical of the large number of people in this country who have a severe dislike of children, sadly it's an ingrained part of the culture here. The reaction to children when abroad in some countries is so noticeably more positive to what you see in this country.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 19:34:14

Worra I don't know for sure that she spoke English, but even if she didn't, it is clearly just courteous to move to allow a pushchair in. And not speaking English is no excuse for hitting a child..

DH was able to calm me down and reassure me.

willesden Fri 22-Feb-13 19:41:53

I think I would have taken the 2yr old out of the buggy and folded it especially when the second one boarded. The woman was horrible, though.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 19:46:57

no excuse for the hitting

but unless your child was asleep in the pushchair I see no reason why she had to move, you didn't really need her space you could have folded and both sat down?

(I would have moved, but just sayin that I would do it out of courtesy, but not because you needed or were entitled to the space with an awake child in an umbrella folder! maybe it was they way you seemed so entitled to it?)

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 19:48:30

willesden, there was no need to fold the buggy as there was room for 2 if no one else was standing in the pushchair area. Or are you saying that I should have folder the pushchair because the woman did not want to move to the available seats?

Floggingmolly Fri 22-Feb-13 19:50:53

She was entitled to put her buggy in the buggy space, smellysocks confused
Bus drivers tend to insist upon it...

Chottie Fri 22-Feb-13 19:53:52

willesden not sure where you are, but UK buses have a designated wheelchair / buggy space. 99% of people just move to let buggy or wheelchair users into the space. There isn't anywhere else to go on a bus if you have a buggy......

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 19:54:58

on most busses they are technically wheelchair spaces not buggy spaces...

anyway, I would have moved, just sayin it's not like the OP needed it to travel on the bus unlike say someone with a small or sleeping baby or a non folder.. and it might have been the way she demanded the space rather than asking for it gracefully

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 19:56:16

there is elsewhere to go on a UK bus with an awake 2YO and a foldable buggy though confused

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 20:00:00

Smelly socks, I'm not sure if you read the OP, but I did say 'excuse me please'. In London there are stickers saying it is for use by wheelchairs and pushchairs if not needed by a wheelchair user. I agree a wheelchair user has priority, but I would have thought most people would agree that a child in a pushchair has priority over a standing person? Dd, like most toddlers, is prone to misbehaviour, and it is far easier to keep her in a pushchair than faff around folding it on a moving bus.

fertilityagogo Fri 22-Feb-13 20:00:58

My condolences. I've been traveling on London buses with my DS's for over 4 years and have encountered some terrible rudeness. And just to point out that simply 'folding up a buggy' on a bus isn't as easy as it sounds?!?!? Especially if you are negotiating a 2 year old, folding a pram, gathering your bits from the carrier underneath, all while trying to maintain your balance on a careening bus (usually full of other people) is NOT PRACTICAL OR REASONABLE.

I should also add that I always give up my seat for elderly or disabled people, even if it means balancing a child or two on my lap, and always, always, get off the bus if a person in a wheelchair is getting on.

I've found that public transport showcases the absolute worst of humanity....(although I've met some lovely and helpful people along the way too)

AnaisB Fri 22-Feb-13 20:01:00

Saying "excuse me please" is hardly demanding.

AnaisB Fri 22-Feb-13 20:02:12

X post with op

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 20:05:55

Fertility thank you. I just wonder what is it that makes people like this?

I have family in Israel and when I visit it couldn't be more different. I was ushered to the front of queues while pregnant, offered seats immediately, and when I went with dd everyone in public admired her and couldn't be more helpful. I just find it rather sad that London is so different. sad

sapphirestar Fri 22-Feb-13 20:06:56

Yanbu, the buses where I am all have signs saying 'designated wheelchair/pushchair space. Please give up this space if a wheelchair/pushchair user wants to use it.' I hate rude people, would have had to have said something!

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 20:10:34

Saying "excuse me please" is hardly demanding.

depends on the tone

fertilityagogo Fri 22-Feb-13 20:16:50

smelly do you mind my asking how often you travel on buses with young children?

AnaisB Fri 22-Feb-13 20:17:13

Ok, If the op snarled "excuse me please" she was being unreasonable.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 20:18:01

fertility I do actually rely solely on public transport, it's really no big deal if you don't get a "parking" space with a child that old and a folding buggy

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 20:18:47

x post with fertility - I travel exclusively by foot or bus, with two of them.

AnaisB Fri 22-Feb-13 20:19:02

If she said it normally, which i assume to be the case, she is being reasonable.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

usualsuspect Fri 22-Feb-13 20:22:03

Who said that?

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 20:22:49

Smellysocks, you are now trying to imply things which is completely untrue, I said 'excuse me please' in a completely normal tone, and was even very measured after she had hit dd. Clearly you are angling for a disagreement.

What I am really wondering about is: should I have done more than tell the woman that she had hit dd?

Also, red, what time of day was it? If it was rush hour, I'd very gently suggest, don't travel at that time. It's bloody cutthroat - I've been shoved out of the way more times than I can remember, and it makes you aggressive in response (although I am super-careful to be polite and accommodating of pregnant/child-herding people!) and the whole thing cycles out of control. It's horrible, and you ought to be able to expect better, but sadly you can't.
Hope your DD was okay, and that you are.

fertilityagogo Fri 22-Feb-13 20:24:22

ok, difference of opinion then. my feeling is that the space marked for 'prams' is indeed for prams and that actual seats are for people without prams.

OP - in my books YANBU at all, and I've had this happen to me several times. Along with being annoying it can be pretty dispiriting at the end of a long and tiring day.

TooMuchRain Fri 22-Feb-13 20:25:09

What more would you want to do? Sounds as though she was inconsiderate in not moving but didn't hit your child deliberately

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 20:25:58

Beertricks I couldn't tell just by looking at her. If she was then it still doesn't explain hitting dd.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 20:27:43

you said you repeated it louder - by raising your voice it would sound pretty demanding particularly if she hadn't actually heard it the first time.

I personally can't be bothered hanging around the front if there's not a clear space and just get on with folding and sitting

re the head, the main thing is that your LO heard YOU say something to the efffect of meaning that it wasn't acceptable - i.e. standing up for her, the woman's reaction doesn't matter, what matters is that your LO will know that you defend her IYKWIM

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 20:29:32

Beertricks - crossed posts earlier!

Humpty it was just after 6, so around rush hour yes. Unfortunately I have no choice about when I can pick dd up though. I tried cycling the route instead (too far to walk) but unfortunately I am too unwell to cycle atm and it is pretty cold for dd.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wigglesrock Fri 22-Feb-13 20:35:07

Maybe she couldn't sit down as in its easier for her healthwise to stand then get off at her stop rather than sit down and get up again. I doubt she hit your child deliberately - it was rude but I don't think she set out to hurt your daughter.

ISeeSmallPeople Fri 22-Feb-13 20:38:06

She wasn't as unreasonable as the people who stole stuff fromy changing bag in London buses in that space.

Seriously, why did you want to steamy wipes and nappies you sad sad people?

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 20:39:55

for future reference, I always get my shopping or bag whatever together off the buggy at the bus stop (fare already in easy reach pocket), then when the bus pulls up you can see if there's anyone in the space, if there's not pop it back underneath, if there is then the bags are ready to dump in the luggage shelf as you board the bus, then you just get child out and fold, I don't need to bother asking for a space to be vacated for us

It's easier I think if you take busses all the time, I can see how it would be a stuggle for someone who was a less frequent user as they might not be anticipating the buggy area being busy

plus a lot of bus drivers round here let dogs on the bus, which I don't personally like, so often choose not to use the space even if there is one, between them and the shollies etc the front is often more hassle than it's worth! folding and going down the back is much less hassle!

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 20:41:42

Wiggles if that's the case then she could have just moved to allow the pushchair in, or is it unreasonable to expect that? Hitting dd looked rather deliberate, and if it wasn't then surely she would have apologised, especially after dd had said ow and I had told her that she had hit her?

Iseesmallpeople - that is truly terrible (and weird!)

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 20:43:47

Iseesmallpeople I hope you use reusable nappies and it was the end of the day - I'd like to think of them opening their swag to find that wink

JeeanieYuss Fri 22-Feb-13 20:45:18

Willesden, why should the OP of had to folded her pushchair down to make room for the 2nd pushchair getting on?

hmc Fri 22-Feb-13 20:48:49

BeerTricks - She might have been deaf, but what's that got to do with the price of fish? I imagine that she was still cogniscent of the fact that she was in the buggy space even if she was hearing impaired

hmc Fri 22-Feb-13 20:49:45

cognisant

Mimishimi Fri 22-Feb-13 20:51:51

Was the child, the one in the second push chair, that she did move for non-white? It sounds very deliberate to me, even if she didn't speak the language, she would have guessed from the tone.

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 20:53:33

Mimi, the second child was Asian (I think), not sure how that is relevant.

Mimishimi Fri 22-Feb-13 20:57:09

It might be relevant if she has a problem and wanted to get a little power trip from it.

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 20:59:07

Are you saying her actions might have been racist Mimi ? I don't know if that is reading a little too much into the situation.

frillyflower Fri 22-Feb-13 21:04:33

In central london most people with buggies just get on, say nothing to the people standing in the pushchair space, just kind of push straight into the space.

It's terribly rude I think.

Often they are talking on a mobile which I think I even more rude. It costs nothing to smile or mouth thank you when someone moves away to give you the room.

tethersend Fri 22-Feb-13 21:10:44

Could she have been a massive wanker do you think?

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 21:17:12

was the second buggy comparable though, or was there a baby/sleeping child not an awake older child in it, and was it a pram/travel system or another umbrella folder?

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 21:33:39

The second child was I'm guessing about 18 months old and awake. I can't remember what kind of pushchair it was. Again, I'm not really sure how relevant this is, except for you to say that you think it was ok to move for a child if they weren't in a folding pushchair (don't they all fold?). Personally I think it is just good manners to make way for any child in a pushchair.

lowercase Fri 22-Feb-13 21:42:02

If someone is already in that space, you should fold the pushchair.
Pushchair doesn't have priority over standee.
Wheelchair has priority.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 21:43:16

no they don't all fold, travel systems like an MPX comes in two, the chassi flattens but doesn't umbrella fold then you're left with a big old pushchair seat sans wheels that doesn't fold (I have one for walks)

Mimishimi Fri 22-Feb-13 21:46:23

Lowercase:really? I can't speak for the UK because we are in Australia but here the buses have an image of a wheelchair and a buggy for that space. If there were clearly other seats, I don't think it's at all unreasonable for the OP to request the woman to move to one of them.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 22:00:46

none of my local busses have official wheelchair and pushchair spaces, they have wheelchair spaces that pushchairs use, however the fold up seats in that space are priority seats, so going by the notices by rights the pushchairs should vacate for not only pushchairs but also anyone elderly or pregnant or disabled. There isn't a pushchair symbol on either the space, or behind the fold up seats that go along the side of the space which have the pregnant/old/disabled symbol on them

Floggingmolly Fri 22-Feb-13 22:18:54

If there are free seats (and tbh, even if there aren't) standing in the wheelchair / buggy space is not on - and I've seen plenty of bus drivers make that point quite strongly.
It takes one hell of a brass neck to ignore an empty seat an stand like a gobshite where someone is trying to park their pushchair. Why would you do that?

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 22:22:11

Smelly - I don't know where you are, but in London it is a wheelchair and pushchair space if not needed by wheelchairs. It is clearly sign posted as such.

lowercase Fri 22-Feb-13 22:29:16

As has been mentioned, standee may have impairment that isn't immediately obvious or just find it more comfortable to stand.

Standing in that space is not on?
What if you have luggage or shopping that can't be stowed?
You can't be so entitled wrt a public service.

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 22:46:19

Because lowercase, it is easier to sit down or move slightly, then for a parent to fold a pushchair and juggle a child on a moving bus. It's all about common decency.

lowercase Fri 22-Feb-13 22:58:35

For somebody without impairment.
I used a sling on buses.
For longer outings I would have the pushchair folded and babe in arms ready to sit.
It's all about common decency.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 22:59:44

the luggage shelf is near the space, they might not want to go too far from their belongings

andubelievedthat Fri 22-Feb-13 23:00:49

Ah ! theSisterhood ,still as strong i see ! the person standing was obviously blind and deaf ! simples ,only by being so can she be excused from such a course of non-action(well ,maybe a total shite ,that she so obviously is/was )The big clue here is the sign which was along the lines of "space for prams/wheelchairs/disabled..."NOT" and others that can move but cannot be bothered."

Southeastdweller Fri 22-Feb-13 23:03:45

I don't think you could have done anything else.

I also think the woman didn't hit your daughter deliberately and she was either deaf or from a different culture.

You've every right for you and your DD and the pram to be in that space it but then so as everyone else (who should move when parents with prams come on the bus). I sometimes stand in that space and I've got every damn right to flogging angry

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 23:06:18

smelly you clearly have never been to London.. the luggage rack is not near the pushchair area. There were seats near that.

Lowercase bully for you. Not everyone may want/be able to do that.

lowercase Fri 22-Feb-13 23:11:20

Right.
And not everyone can easily sit.

But I can easily fold my pushchair / use a sling / consider others, so that's what I did.

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 23:11:34

I lived in london for years and live near enough to visit regularly hmm, some are at the front depends on the bus - there isn't just one type of bus in greater london! anyway it was just brain storming in agreement with lowercase.

why is it that if anyone disagrees on this threat then someone tries to completely discredit/disregard their opinion by trying to tell the rest of the thread some rubbish like "you've obviously never been on a bus/seen a pushchair" etc

messybedhead Fri 22-Feb-13 23:20:54

Don't know which part of London you visit smelly but you are not describing any London bus I know.

The pushchair area is in the middle. If you want to fold a pushchair, the only place to put it usually is in that middle wheelchair/ pushchair space because the old people put their shopping at the bit at the front.

It is often much easier to 'park' pushchair than fold it and take up the same amount of space anyway.

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 23:22:25

Smellysocks that just doesn't ring true. I take usually 4+ buses a day and have never seen one with the layout you are talking about. You are the one making assumptions without being able to back them up. Anyway, what you are talking about it besides the point. This woman hit my child, and the location of the luggage rack has nothing to do with that!

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 23:25:23

the single story round the houses one I used to get to work in greater london had door, driver, luggage shelf, space, then bus pass biddies who went red faced if anyone got on the bus before them and sat in THEIR seats grin
There IS more than one kind of bus in london!

smellysocksandchickenpox Fri 22-Feb-13 23:26:37

"back them up"??, I'm sorry what are you asking for?, this isn't the kinda threat that you can reference peer reviewed research on confused

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 23:27:48

Smelly maybe that was a while ago? The bus stock has been updated and they all have a very similar design. Besides which it doesn't matter!

redplasticspoon Fri 22-Feb-13 23:30:12

Smelly just leave it, if I could be arsed I would put a link up to a bus layout design, but I can't.

lowercase Fri 22-Feb-13 23:30:49

There are buses with the lift up seats / luggage area at front.

My maclaren took up about 1/4 of the space when folded.

It's not about what's easier, it's about consideration for your fellows.

blindworm Fri 22-Feb-13 23:35:59

I've never seen a London bus with a luggage shelf near the wheelchair/pushchair space. The luggage space is at the front near the priority seats.

princessnumber2 Fri 22-Feb-13 23:47:56

I live in central London and on all the buses I get the luggage 'rack' (ie space for about 3 carrier bags for 72 passengers) is near the front, then priority seats for disabled, pregnant, elderly etc then wheelchair/buggy area is half way down the bus (past a queue of people standing). I wouldn't get on a bus if I couldn't get the buggy on without folding. I've got mobility issues so I'm in a slightly different position as I couldn't manage a child on my lap as well as shopping and a folded maclaren. Those of you saying 'put the buggy/shopping in the luggage area' are making me smile. Even if it would fit (and in 20 years in london I've never seen a folded buggy on the luggage rack) there is no way I'd leave it and go and sit somewhere else as it might not be there when I got off. (Where I live we have to chain our buggies up outside nursery, GP surgery etc). These threads always go a bit monty python competitive martyrdom.

OP obviously what you should have done is tied yourself and your child to the back of the bus and been glad to be dragged home.

On a different note, I am envy of all of you with luggage racks on your buses still!

OP, assuming the woman in question wasn't blind, deaf and from another cultural background, you are definitely NBU. I can't believe she didn't apologise for hitting your daughter in the head!

sashh Sat 23-Feb-13 05:46:10

I was thinking deaf too.

Mimishimi Sat 23-Feb-13 06:19:40

I can't think of another culture where it's acceptable to hit a stranger's child.

stopbeingsilly Sat 23-Feb-13 06:56:05

princess a voice of sense and reason, finally! Love the monty python competitiveness, you're absolutely right grin

smellysocks you're trying way, way too hard here. Chill out.

Southeastdweller Sat 23-Feb-13 07:25:26

I can't think of another culture where it's acceptable to hit a stranger's child.

Neither can I which is why I said I doubted it was deliberate.

ErikNorseman Sat 23-Feb-13 07:32:07

How utterly odd. Some mumsnetters seem to just argue for the fun of it.

YANBU at all OP, why should you go to the hassle of folding your pram unnecessarily? And on brighton buses there is one wheelchair space, with a flat space to rest the back of the chair against, and two pushchair spaces. The bus driver wouldn't allow two wheelchairs on as it wouldn't be safe.

Southeastdweller Sat 23-Feb-13 07:36:07

In central london most people with buggies just get on, say nothing to the people standing in the pushchair space, just kind of push straight into the space. It's terribly rude I think. Often they are talking on a mobile which I think I even more rude. It costs nothing to smile or mouth thank you when someone moves away to give you the room.

I agree with this. Bad manners comes in many forms on public transport in London.

potatoprinter Sat 23-Feb-13 07:53:37

OP I am sorry you encountered such a rude person and I don't think there is anything you could have done.

I use buses in London most days and this sort of experience is very unusual. I have seen tourists with bags etc genuinely unaware that this is a buggy space but they move straight away. Some buggies are so massive that they have to get on via the exit doors and stick out into the aisle.

I have unfortunately seen people refuse to move buggies to let wheelchairs or mobility scooters on which is pretty bad as well. I have also seen buggies move into the aisle and completely block it because the space is full with other buggies so no one can get off other than pushing their way to the front doors.

In my day (my kids are now teenagers). I would use an umbrella fold buggy and fold it before I got on the bus as buses had steps in my day! Any shopping had to go in a rucksack. When I was young there were the old routemasters with conductors and they would take the buggy and stash it in the luggage space - world has changed!

TandB Sat 23-Feb-13 07:55:32

I don't see why the OP shouldn't have asked to use the space. I have no time for any argument about who gets priority in the wheelchair space - it's a wheelchair space so buggy-users need to shift themselves and stop moaning about it being a buggy space - but most buses in London say that it can be used by buggies when no wheelchair needs it. There was space for the woman to move, so the OP had every right to ask her to move. If there hadn't been room in that space, most London drivers wouldn't have let her on the bus at all.

However, the complete lack of reaction from the woman makes me think that she didn't speak English. She might have been deaf, as a previous poster suggested, but in my experience, a lot of people who can't hear tend to be quite alert to what is going on around them, simply because they know they might miss something. It's fairly unusual for someone to be both deliberately obstructive and completely silent when challenged - most people who are being awkward are quite happy to have an argument about it. I suspect she simply didn't register what was needed - perhaps daydreaming, and couldn't understand what was being said to her.

I also think it unlikely that she bashed the child on the head on purpose. It would take a pretty high level of spite to deliberately ignore the OP just to be awkward and then to hurt a child on purpose just for an added bit of fun!

Charltonangel Sat 23-Feb-13 08:09:01

In Miami you can't take buggies on the bus, they have to be folded. It is a pain in the arse (Esp when dd has a broken leg)! Here people are generally nice - I have to bring dd home on the bus during rush hour and use a sling, and someone will almost always offer me a seat.

Sometimes you do just get people who don't see why babies/toddlers should be given special dispensation. I think it depends on your view of the world. I once got told by a hoity-toity commuter that I shouldn't have dd on a rush hour train (childminder was ill so was dropping her to a friend before work). I snarled at him told him I hoped very much he never tried to get on my train in the middle of the day, when trains are exclusively reserved for us ladies of leisure grin

Moominsarehippos Sat 23-Feb-13 09:09:09

Deaf or not - and not all deaf are completely deal to all noises - but you can still tell when your bag has wacked something and at least look.

I find the pram spaces are often taken by tourists with luggage (I'm central London). Prams can be a sod to fold - especially the fancy ones and 'double deckers' and it is tricky with a small child, bags, etc.

You do get the luggage shelf and sometimes a gap infront of the first two seats to fit in a folded pram of case on some London buses.

I have seen riots almost break out by awfully naice laidies trying to crowbar prams into the spaces on packed rush hour buses. Really really rude and aggressive behaviour from the lycra-clad alpha moms, usually towards another mum who doesn't seem to know the routine (and who they usually assume don't speak english/are hard or hearing/very stupid).
My usual route is right through Kensington to Notting Hill, so I get a good show most mornings.

With DS I walked or slinged him everywhere. Public transport is just a 'mare with a pram. This probably explains my arthritic knees now!

Do they still hang folded prams off the front of trams in Amsterdam? I got the shock of my life when I first saw one!

redplasticspoon Sat 23-Feb-13 10:15:02

Thank you all, good to hear that there are some reasonable people out there.

What makes me thing it was deliberate was not just the way it was done, but also the woman not apologising when dd said ow or I pointed out to her what she had done. Surely any decent person would do? Even if you can't speak English, I would have thought anyone living in London would know 'sorry' or have at least said it in there native language. Incidentally if she was deaf (very unlikely) then I do know basic BSL from working with children with sensory impairments. There was no attept to say sorry :^by any means

twitchycurtains Sat 23-Feb-13 10:18:00

OP YABVVVU, I personally wear a sling but carry my folded up buggy everywhere whilst still having one hand free to keep hold of my 3.7 year old because thats just the kind of considerate pavement/bus user I am. I realise that my v small children are an absolute nuisance to absolutely everyone and as penance for daring to breed (and not having the forsight to be able to drive/afford to run a car) I always walk everywhere through wind/rain/snow/blizzard because that is how accomodating and considerate I am. So ner ner na ner ner.

In all seriousness, op, you were polite but public transport brings out the worst in people, I am so self conscience about travelling with my 4 month old and pre schooler on buses, that I cannot relax whilst on the bus and the amount the of people who think they can make rude remarks about you within earshot just because you have dared to bring a buggy on board a bus. Its a bloody nightmare and no I will not fold up my buggy and whilst handing my baby to anstranger to hold and keep a tight hold on my pre schooler making a bid for freedom all whilst the bus is still moving, I'd rather get off and wait for the next one. Round her there are no luggage racks, just a space at the front for wheelchair users and buggies(it says so on the signs) and single line priority seats at the front before the normal seats begin.

Southeastdweller Sat 23-Feb-13 10:24:47

I think she was in a very grumpy mood and with some kind of impairment or/and cultural difference. I know I wasn't there but I find it very hard to believe she hit your DD deliberately.

Moominsarehippos Sat 23-Feb-13 10:52:02

I'm still not sure in which culture whacking a small child is ok!

atthewelles Sat 23-Feb-13 11:28:23

Her behaviour does sound odd. To be honest I can never understand why people stand in the wheelchair/buggy space when there are seats available and then wait to be asked to move by someone pushing a buggy. They should just get out of the way really.

Regarding the general attitude of people towards children I have often found my heart sinking if someone with a couple of small kids sits at the table beside me in a restaurant or gets into the same carriage as me in a train. Not because I don't like children but because I've seen so many incidents of parents allowing their kids to 'take over' a space and show no consideration for the other people there and expect everyone to think their kids are the centre of the universe that you do sometimes find yourself defaulting into 'oh shit. Someone with small children is about to sit there'.

Of course its unfair on the parents who have absolutely no intention of allowing their children to cause hassle but sometimes when you come across a sour attitude its because someone has just become weary of self entitled, everyone make way for me, type parents and people like the OP end up getting the brunt of it.

shock that anyone would deliberately hit a child, though.

BonaDrag Sat 23-Feb-13 11:42:09

I was pushed hard on a packed train when I was 8 months pregnant.
The pusher was a middle aged suited man. I told him if he laid another hand on me I would kick him in the balls. He didn't chance it.

YANBU and I think very calm under the circumstances.

Moominsarehippos Sat 23-Feb-13 12:15:08

I was shoved (quite hard) out of the way on the bus when I was 9 months (as it turned out) pregnant. I was standing next to a seat, the passenger got up to get off and I stepped aside to let him off. I wasn't going to sit down, but the bitch that shoved me didn't know that. I was huuuuuge and wearing a red jumper, so looked like a tomato, so it was pretty obvious that I was pregnant. I also had my briefcase, so it was obvious I'd just put in a full day at the office.

The man next to me was shock but I found her brass neck quite amusing. She had to endure me and the startled man making (passive aggressive) digs for the 2 stops until I got off. No she wasn't elderly, poorly, fragile or unsteady on her feet. She ran for the bus like a bull and bowled into me to get her seat.

Me "Maybe she's very, very tired"
Him "Hard day at work, perhaps?"
Me "Me too! But I'm still standing"
Him "Maybe she's not feeling well"
Me "strong enough to nearly push me over"

Floggingmolly Sat 23-Feb-13 12:59:27

You should have sat in her lap, Moomins

NUFC69 Sat 23-Feb-13 13:32:31

When I read threads like this I do wonder if the rudeness and aggression is a London thing (it's years since we lived nearby). Up here in Newcastle when I use the bus with my GS people are extremely kind and helpful. It's rare that I am not waved forward to get on the bus first. Also on our buses there are bays on both sides and they are marked for either wheelchairs or pushchairs.

redplasticspoon Sat 23-Feb-13 15:48:53

Nufc I think you have a point there. When I've been to the north people even say thank you to the bus driver, though there never seem to be enough people on buses for the same kind of aggression to build.

Noideaatall Sun 24-Feb-13 00:29:18

OP, this has happened to me on the tube. I was travelling with DS1 (4) & DS2(Teenage) - a woman got on and leant right across DS1, knocking him in the face with her two huge bags. DS2 held them away from his face without saying anything. She carried on leaning & banging DS1 - eventually I pushed the bags away & said - Excuse me, you're hitting him in the face. She sarcastically said -'Sorreee! it's hardly hitting him!' (it had, several times but he's quite stoic about that sort of thing) She'd been offered a seat and refused it already (more than I get on the tube at 7 months pregnant) so not angling for that - she was just rude & thoughtless and did it to another child that got on and sat next to us later. Grr. Although DS1 used to get the same when he was small - people would even rest their bags on his head!

Selvedge Sun 24-Feb-13 01:23:28

OP YANBU. Best case scenario, she was self-absorbed with no spatial awareness. Worst case, she's mean and nasty. Either way, you did nothing wrong and I don't know what I would have done differently (except maybe be a bit more vocal).

Lowercase, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about buggies on buses. What bus do you use that has an area for stowing a folded pushchair but not the luggage of a standing passenger? And only has room for a standee in the wheelchair/pushchair area? My local buses have poles and hanging loops left, right and centre, and no luggage space whatsoever...

Moominsarehippos Sun 24-Feb-13 09:39:50

Is she talking about the ledge near the driver? That's for luggage.

Either way, pram folded or not, manners cost nothing! However if someone dismissed a whack to the head as 'nothing' I'd offer to demonstrate on them with my handbag (which is usually very heavy).

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