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wearing these

and some wet look leggings (which she wants to buy today, I've said I think it will look tarty for her age) and a top.

She thinks its ok to spend all her money on the shoes and leggings (£35) and not leave enough to buy drinks whilst at the party. I said she will get dehydrated.

AIBU to not allow her to go? (she has already been grounded for the past 2 days so it was touch and go as to whether she was allowed to go anyway)

The party includes getting ready at her friends house and staying over after btw.

ps I have pmt so I am aware I may be unreasonable, hence the question.

The clothese I would leave up to her tbh. I would never say my daughters look tarty. I think that's a horrible misogynistic phrase tbh.

The party - where is it, who will be there, how late does it go etc? I wouldn't be keen on my daughter going to parties yet. I have one who is 14 and one who is 12. Fortunately they don't want to go either. If she really wants to go and you think it's a safe location then I would let her go but I would NOT let her stay oer with a friend unless you trust friend's parents and they are picking the girls up. If that isn't the case then I would pick her up as late as you can bear. In my case 1am would be the deadline!

I would also have a talk with her about the pressures for sex and drinking that go on at teen parties. You might be able to phrase it that you know she is able to take care of herself and make good decisions but she needs to take care of her friends who could be vulnerable if there are older children there. I would also make it clear that getting drunk will lead to the wrath of the heavens descending upon her.

I like the shoes! Very unlikely she'll get dehydrated, can't you give her a couple of quid for some water if you're worried about that? If you really don't approve of the outfit can't you find a compromise rather than just say she can't go?

Not sure about wet look leggings, sound very Olivia Newton John but better than a teeny Mini imo.

She will look ludicrous but she's 13. Develop that long blink thing to block it out.
And check with other friends parents she is actually staying there and not somewhere else.

11pm would be my limit for a 13yo

If you stop her from going you need to be able to give her a god reason why you are not allowing her to go. I think her choice of outfit is not really a good reason

Dehydrated? I think you are clutching at straws here because I assume any drink she would get if she had the money would be coke or some sort of carbonated something or other which wouldn't hydrate her anyway. Or would she seriously buy water? They'd provide tap water free wouldn't they? How long is the party and how often does she normally drink.

As for looking tarty for her age, she is 13 and everyone can see that. Of course in 5 years time you'll both look back and laugh at her outfit.

Oh and going back to my own experience of being 13, I don't think I would allow her to stay over at anyones house after a party. To me that is a code for getting up to mischief (probably nothing really bad, but maybe other girls parents allow her to stay out later or something but still)

I personally would say she can go, let her wear what she likes (her feet will be killing her after an hour in those shoes - she'll learn) but tell her she can't stay over and you will collect her when party finishes.

YY to collecting her after the party.

I have a 14 year old dd. the "staying at a friends" isn't always totally accurate and truthful I have discovered.

As for the shoes/leggings combo-sometimes you have to pick your battles. At least it is clothing that is covering most of her body.

It's at a social club, the girls house she would be staying with I've met a few times and don't mind her staying there. The party goes on til 11pm, DH said he would pick her up if needed. It's not the party I mind, it's the getting dehydrated because she spent all her money on clothes to wear (and imo not even nice clothes, she'll probably fall over in the shoes and rip the leggings, she was wearing them round the house yesterday and balanced herself by leaning on me a few times)

Your daughters must have more sensible taste in clothes is all I can say on that because I do think high wedge shoes with leather/ wet look leggings on 13yr old look tarty and that is not to say I hate women, of course not, I love my daughter obviously which is why I want her to look respectable when she goes out.

id want more information about the party and probably say no tbh

Look tarty? That is an awful thing to say and will do no good for her confidence! I have a 14 year old and a nearly 13 and regarding parties it has to be a proper invite (not a FB jobby) with a phone number of parent. Is it at a proper venue? Do you know parents she staying with? When does party finish and how getting home? No way in god's earth would my 14 year old let alone 13 year old stay out any later than 11 and a party should not go on after this. I have said no to dubious parties but the ones that are well organised they have had a great time. Agree about picking her up unless really trusted family.

I think the length/style of the top is more important than the leggings and shoes, does the top come down to below bum length?

It's not about taste in clothes - we all made bad outfit choices when we were younger and tbh I don't think what she wants to wear is that bad anyway?

But calling your 13yo daughter tarty is pretty off.

It's the principal of it I think that bothers me, we don't have much money and we are a hard working family, it irks me she thinks its ok to spend £35 on 2 items of ridiculous clothing and then not have enough left for the basics, she needs to learn to budget. I'm not giving her pocket money early, she needs to learn. At christmas she had lots of money given to her and spent it on an ipad mini - fair enough but now she has to learn when it's gone it's gone we are not an endless supply of money.

We've talked lots about drinking, smoking, sex etc she is very sensible and has high morals (so did I at 13, still got pregnant at 16 though so I'm very aware it can change at any time)

well DD wears wedges and platforms. And leggings but with a long top.

Its not my taste, but I dare say I looked pretty awful at 13.

Have you spoken to the parents where she is staying? are they being picked up?

Id be more concerned about the details tbh rather than the clothing.

Ok but is it her money?

Because if money is tight and you cant afford to pay for the clothes, fair enough.

If its her own money, what difference does it make?

I haven't called her tarty, I said the outfit is tarty. It really isn't that bad a word where I live She's very confident and a lovely girl, I'm very proud of her. I am very blunt and up front when it comes to talking to her about things and sometimes don't phrase things that well but she knows me and knows I am not putting her down, she knows I worry and I love her that's all.

To take your objections in order:

Those shoes are at least wedges, so will be marginally safer than stiletoes

Her legs (and her bum) will be covered, which is always a good thing for young teenagers

It is her money

There will be water available (free) at the party.

She could do a lot worse.

I would never call my 13 year old tarty. As far as the clothes go then I would try to discourage the shoes as they are not great but at the end of the day you choose your battles and do those shoes really matter? If you really object then why not agree to the leggings and not the shoes?

TBH my DD will wear clothes that I don't approve of, they are not tarty or inappropriate but they are not to my taste but then there would be something wrong if a 13 year old likes the same clothes as her mother. I work on the theory that she has to find her own style (or lack of!!!) just like I did and I save the discussions for the stuff that really matters like her school work and general behaviour.

Like others, I would be more concerned with the arrangements for the party; like imnotmymum (great name for somebody on this thread!) I would want to know where the party was at, who was going to be there, whether they were supervised. My DD does not go to parties that end that late; she had one the other day that I expected to go on late, I was fine with it as it was at a friend's house and I knew the parents, I got a text at about 7pm to say it had finished, they'd had a 3 hour party, had a great time which was fine all round as the party girl had an early start the next morning.

I've suggested she take the shoes back and buys a cheaper pair and a cheaper pair of leggings so she has enough money for drinks. She said no, she wants me to give her an advance on her pocket money, I've said no because I can't afford it.

stiletoes , I meant stilettos, of course. These are what dd's friends wear, with very, very short skirts and invisible knickers .

It's nothing to do with where you live. Tarty is like a multitude of nasty words designed to keep women and girls down....slut, slag, whore, tart....all shouted at women and girls who wear what they want.

We should be able to wear what we like without being called tarty.

who is organising the party? is it just for kids of your daughter's age? I have two daughters now 18 and 21. You have to pick your battles for a happy home! They do wear 'tarty' clothes and too much make-up. I was happy with this as long as they were in a private venue with their peers - would not be happy with them walking about in public dressed like that. Sleepover is really your personal judgement. Who else is sleeping over, is it all girls, will they be supervised - could you speak to supervising adults beforehand. hope it all works out ok for you

Oh, x-posted. Don't give her an advance.

She can spend her money how she likes but has to realise you won't replace it.

Okay, so your daughter has had the word 'tarty' normalised in her life.. That is worrying and very sad.

The clothes aren't ridiculous. They are stylish and fashionable and she is 13. She is asking for new look shoes; I would argue that you have taught her to budget as she is looking for clothes in cheap shops.

I'm a jeans, jumper and trainers type person and I wasn't going to parties or out that late when I was her age but I am aware times have moved on.

Give her a fiver to get drinks. She's 13....they want to dress up and have fun, life's too short.

The clothes are quite grown up but if she wears a non revealing top it won;t look too grown up.

I'd be more bothered by my 13 year old going to a party in a social club where she is expected to pay for her own drinks. The club won't be an exclusive venue for the party unless the it is prepared to close to its members for the night which is highly unlikely. I would need to know exactly which responsibly adults would be there and make sure I'd talked to them first about the arrangements.

I was x roads and I'm 40.....grew up in the 80s.

"I wouldn't be keen on my daughter going to parties yet. I have one who is 14 and one who is 12"

You don't let them go to parties, ever? Why not? DD is 12 and has been to a couple of sleepover parties and one Laserquest party. Not all teen parties are booze fuelled sex orgies.

The leggings combined with those shoes remind me of Sandy from Grease. But if a 13 year old wanted to wear them, then I'd let her. It's getting a bit close to victim-blaming to say she looks tarty in heels and shiny legs... so if she gets any bother from boys, she'll be 'asking for it', is that what you're saying? Really?

Either she'll feel comfortable and confident in them and pull it off, or she'll be uncomfortable and not want to wear them again. Nothing's 'hanging out', it's not impractical for the time of year, it's not overly-sexualised, like padded bras for 7 year olds...

If you tell her she can't go to a party because you don't like what she wears - which in this instance is utterly a matter of taste - that's very controlling. Would you be happy if she had a boyfriend who wouldn't let her go out if he didn't like what she was wearing?

Right I see you all have the same view on the word tarty, what would should I use instead? To me is just means an outfit where you are trying to look older than you really are.

I hadn't realised the implications of such a word.

I am sorry but I really don't get the dehydration thing. Say party starts at 7pm I mean how much would she really drink of an evening at home after 7pm, really that much? I quite often don't have a drink at all after dinner and just go to bed. So what if she doesn't want to buy drinks she won't dehydrate by not having a drink of an evening!

Women of. All ages should be able to wear what they like without being labelled as anything.

And tarty definitely doesn't mean 'trying to look older than you are'. It's offensive, derogatory, and suggests that the woman is willing to have sex.

Look older than you really are. Yes we spend our youth trying to look older then the rest of our lives trying to look younger. I agree if it is a private party with her peers not a problem, but is it open house? Then my 13 year old would not be going.

Wet look leggings and wedges are the "in thing" for kids that age at the moment. It's not Sandy from Grease to them, it's dressing like celebrities/characters that they all like.

As long as she is wearing a long vest or something, she'll look fine. Honestly. You might see '80's nightmare, but her friends and her will love it (until they look back!) and at least she will be covered up and warm.

I appreciate that this is probably all grounded in you getting pregnant at 16 and fearing the same thing for your daughter, but it's not a tarty look, and it isn't too old for her. 16yos wouldn't be seen dead in wet look leggings right now, it's a young fashion trend.

she needs to learn to budget

And she will! She's only 13. You're allowed to be stupid with your money at 13. Tap water will be free, so she WON'T get dehydrated. You seem to be ignoring that.

Don't decide whether she can go to the party based on the money issue. Don't give her an advance on her pocket money, as you say, you can't afford it. If she's thirsty all night and can only have luke warm tap water to drink then that will be her lesson. Next time, she might leave a fiver for some drinks.

It's getting a bit close to victim-blaming to say she looks tarty in heels and shiny legs... so if she gets any bother from boys, she'll be 'asking for it', is that what you're saying? Really?

Of course I'm not saying that, she probably will get attention from boys, she is gorgeous after all......

And no when she is old enough to have a boyfriend that has an opinion I would hope she is old enough to stand up for herself and wear what she wants.

I was once called a slut and punched in the face by an ex for wearing a tennis dress on a sunny day so maybe my views are slightly marred by that. I know that I do have issues especially when I have PMT my brain goes a bit hayware.

Oh, and the best way to learn to budget is to have to go without something. Let her buy the clothes, and experience not being able to buy a drink. She'll learn, it's part of the learning curve.

Fair enough if you can't afford to give her an advance, you wouldn't have too if you could afford it, but don't tell her how to spend her money. She won't learn that way, she'll just see it as you being controlling. £35 for two items actually isn't that bad...

My 13 year old often wears clothes I think she looks ridiculous in. But she likes them and I am sure she thinks the same about me. Its what 13 year olds do. They wear clothes then in years to come cringe at what they thought looked good.

I think your PMT is in overdrive and maybe you should let her make her own mistakes.

Cheese is right...they're very Sandy. Would look nice with a plain t shirt and denim jacket.

OP you'd be better off giving DD the ammunition to deal with unwanted attention than calling her tarty.

Teach her how to get use one liners...how to sense trouble before it begins...how to trust her instincts.

at 16yo's wouldn't be seen dead in wet look leggings...

And I have some and I am 30.

I think I have some too actually and I am 37 !!

I would also worry about the party being in a social club, assume there will be alcohol being served to older people or an adult there to control who is being served? Of course a bit of a non issue if she has no money though.

I would not be letting my daughter go to a party where alcohol is served and let her stay over at a friends afterwards. I'd let her go but want to collect her myself and bring her home. I know you said you met the girl a few times but do you know anything about the setup of the house your daughter will be staying in?

That would be my concern over dehydration and wacky outfit choices.

The word tarty doesn't mean derogatory, and suggests that the woman is willing to have sex. to me, if it did I wouldn't have used it, I do not want her having sex, clearly! I want her to have a better future than that!

I think I've said a few times now that I didn't mean it like that, it doesn't mean that to me. Can you all get off my case now? I came here for advice and I am taking it all on board, as i said in my OP i have got PMT and may be being unreasonable.

Yes my neice has some and she's 19!

I didn't mean that anyone over 16 wouldn't wear them...

16yos in particular, at least around here, don't wear them. You get the under 15's, and the over 20's. But no 16 to 18 yos (maybe because they are all going through that rebellious fashion age? Who knows!)

If this is an au fait social club, there should be no alcohol on under-16 nights.

If you don't want her having sex (naturally) then you'd better teach her to listen to her instincts and have the confidence to say no....she could be out in a sack and wellies and if she's not got the confidence to say no, then she could STILL get pressured for sex.

The social club and the house she would be staying in is in one of the better areas of our town and dd looks younger than she is so wouldn't get served anyway.

I'm leaving this thread now as I need to go out. Thank you for helping me put things into perspective.

That is what the word tarty suggests - you are just unsigned it incorrectly.

There is your advice.

Oh, and let your daughter wear the leggings and shoes.

I'm not having a go OP....I think people have seen that you're trying to chill about it....my DDs are only 8 and 4....I bet I'm a total nutter by the time they're 13!

You want her to buy cheaper shoes? Cheaper than £19.99?
Please point me in the direction of this fabled shoe shop, I will snap up their every pair.

Implying your daughter is a 'tart' (yes you are btw, don't pretend you aren't) is fucking horrible. She's 13! She should be able to go the party in a bikini without that kind of label. As, incidentally, should we all.

And as for this dehydrated business - words fail me...

See I thought this was a party which is different to an under 16 night IMO.

It could be worse OP, she might have wanted to go in cut away hot pants with her arse cheeks hanging out!

MY dd had shoes like that at 13 I dont think she looked tarty I think they are fine for a 13 yr old let her go to the party or dont but do not call your child tarty or say things she might wear are tarty .

Is it a rave? Why on earth are you worried about her getting dehydrated? As others have said, tap water is free... It won't do her any harm to learn to budget and she's being sensible going to New Look - you'd be pushed to get clothes/shoes cheaper round our way, even the market stalls are pricey!

WRT the outfit, I have a pair of shoes from New Look a bit like that (same shape, more funky) and after a couple of hours they come off and I'm in the flipflops I brought along in my handbag - they're not the most comfortable shoes! If she's not used to heels that high (even though they're wedges they're still fairly precipitous) then perhaps you might suggest she brings along some flats for later on (btw, I tend to wear mine with a matching dress that's above my knees - am I a tart too)?

Those shoes are actually quite nice (I must be a tart) and wet look leggings are very fashionable right now.

My parents let me do absolutely nothing as a teen. What did I do? I ran away at 17 and was pregnant at 20.

Let her go to the party. Talk to her properly about sex and relationships and pressure and saying no. Open up non judgemental lines of communication if you want her to be able to talk to you and not keep secrets. And stop using the word tarty.

DDs were purple I thought they were nice <shrug>

I think she has sort of apologised for using that word. And I hope she does not refer to her DD again in such a way. I believe it is not what you wear it is how you wear it.

I wouldn't be focussing on the clothes tbh, unless they were shockingly revealing.
Shoes look like the kind of shoes teenagers like and her feet will be killing her by the end of the night.
Cut her some slack. I had a friend who had a green mohican and wore a kilt and fishnets when she was only a couple of years older. Let's hope she doesn't go punk, eh?

yanbu about her need to budget more wisely.

Tarty to me is an alternative to chav: cheap and bad taste.

Fashion conscious 11yo DD likes the shoes but understands why you disapprove of wet look leggings (personally, I think they're hideous). That said, I'd probably prefer my DD to wear sensible shoes & I'd ignore the stupid leggings, so I'd lean on her to choose that way.

The first clothes I ever bought all by myself were a short rara skirt and a vest top. My excuse was it was a very hot May day.

Truth was that was the fashion of the day.

I think your have to leave her to it and concentrate on ensuring she is sensible at the party.

No getting drunk (I would be totally hypothetical to say no alcohol, because by 14/15 and may be younger our local dances and some pubs served us).

Boys may be kissed, nothing more. (this never had to be a rule in my pre aids, pre condom machine days, but things have changed).

But most importantly of all, you are where you say you are, when you say you are. You only accept transport off agreed, sober adults your parents have agreed to.

You stay at the house you agreed to stay at. You are polite and respectful to parents you stay with or are given lifts by.

STOP people STOP. Don't you know the difference between:

tarty as a noun

and

tarty as an adjective?

Dear oh dear some of you really get it wrong, don't you??

How is tarty a noun?

Think OP is getting very hard time, she's agreed that tarty wasn't the best word and has asked for suitable alternatives.

Too old is what I would have said.

If she hasn't got the money to give her to get a drink, then she hasn't. Let your dd go thirsty OP, she won't come to any harm by not having a drink for a couple of hours.

I would let her wear the clothes she wants.
Wet look leggings are fashionable.
As for the shoes, I have seen worse.

I would let her go.
Pick her up afterwards if you seriously don't want her to sleep over.

Bear in mind though that sleepovers are fun for kids of all ages. I would check out who is sleeping over and if it is just her then let her go.

How else is one to describe unwholesome clothes? She's not calling her daughter a tart.

I wouldn't let my daughter wear them at 13, but I don't have a daughter. Heels are for women, not children.

FFs pack it in with giving the op a hard time-does it really make you feel better about yourselves?

Op-I am clearly in the minority here as I would not be happy with my dd going out in the outfit you have described-13 is far too young. The shoes themselves are ok but NOT teamed with ultra tight shiny leggings.

But then again I see girls around here as young as 11 with dyed blonde or jet black hair,ratty extensions,vile false lashes and nails and ridiculous shoes. There parents clearly give them the cash to buy this stuff and I presume must thing they look good<shudder>

Wet look leggings are fashionable and the shoes are pretty safe imo. She just wants to appear grown up, I know I did at that age. You say she's She's very confident and a lovely girl, I'm very proud of her. so reward her for being like that and allow her some freedom, choice and trust. Regarding the money, well it is her money so she should be able to spend it as she wishes (within reason obviously). At this age pick your battles OP or you'll have a rebellious teen on your hands instead of the girl you have described.

Leave her alone about her dress sense, you will only bash her confidence! She's 13.

Are you honestly angry that she spends money on clothes instead of keeping money to spend on a drink so she isn't 'dehydrated'?

You need to lighten up and not be so boring!!

As for party I would phone and check the arrangements at the other house and let her go

Water is free, she will not get dehydrated. She may well get very cold but it seems to me that teenagers never wear proper clothes.

Thanks to those that have stuck up for me

I'm in a calmer more rational mood this afternoon, dd1 is out shopping but has rang me to say she decided against the leggings after all so no idea what she is coming home with instead but I do trust her so we shall see........

The sleepover I'm fine about, the girls parents are lovely, I've met them quite a few times and I totally trust them to make sure she is ok and the friend she is staying with is a nice girl too so no problems with that.

The shoes.....still not keen but she takes after me in the height department so I can understand her wanting to appear taller to fit in with her friends.

Yes yes yes to the poster who said

I think your have to leave her to it and concentrate on ensuring she is sensible at the party.

No getting drunk (I would be totally hypothetical to say no alcohol, because by 14/15 and may be younger our local dances and some pubs served us).

Boys may be kissed, nothing more. (this never had to be a rule in my pre aids, pre condom machine days, but things have changed).

But most importantly of all, you are where you say you are, when you say you are. You only accept transport off agreed, sober adults your parents have agreed to.

You stay at the house you agreed to stay at. You are polite and respectful to parents you stay with or are given lifts by.

Dd1 was grounded for a couple of days at the start of the week for not being where she was supposed to be and not being contactable by phone, I do not pay for her to have a phone that doesn't work she's learnt her lesson and I have to give her another chance to prove herself to us.

I was a nightmare teen so I know how much worse it could be and am therefore very grateful for how sensible dd is........

Agree with DazR - a party at a social club ok if it's a lock-in private do organised by parents of and to be attended by her peers ie children 11 to 14.Otherwise I'd be saying no on grounds of age appropriateness, and I wouldn't give a monkeys if she planned to wear a floor length pinafore with a polo neck underneath and school shoes.

Re the money if she had it spend, it's up to her how she spends it that's how she learns, but as she hasn't got it you're right to say no.

Sounds like you've worked through this OP. Well done

Bunbaker - my dds go to plenty of sleepovers and similar. I just meant they haven't gone to larger scale parties which may or may not have parents there, have a mix of ages and potentially booze available. If they desperately wanted to go I would let them with appropriate ground rules but atm none of us are keen so it isn't an issue.

Yabu

Wow, I am obviously a proper old codger ( clutches pearls ) cos no 13 year old of mine would wear shoes like that. But my 17 year old has wet look leggings and I think it is quite a overtly sexy look.

I took a bottle of whisky to my friend's 13th (I was 13 too, btw...), and got rather ill. I still can't smell whisky without gagging. I can't remember what shoes I was wearing, or whether I woke up with them!

i think the shoes are great.
the wet-look leggings are pushing it a bit but it depends on the top. a good long top, not too low in the front, would make them ok.
she needs money for bottled water and training in how to safeguard the drink - thumb over when not actually drinking, and never go back to a drink you've left unattended.

the main thing though is that her parents should collect her and take her home when the party ends. and make a habit of it, whenever similar situations occur. a girl whose 'mum will be here in a bit' is protected from a lot of unfortunate situations and from a lot of temptations. it is equally important that they should have safe places to experiment with clothes etc. a supervised party is ok, a party where your own parents are present is better.

i don't use the word 'tarty' very often but i would use many other words meaning roughly the same thing. it is imperative to train girls in how to give the right impression. start early, as soon as they become aware of other people and their clothing. to tell your daughter something will 'look tarty' is not the same as telling her she is a tart.

one girl i knew thought it was wonderful when her mum bought her what the mum termed 'your 'prossy' coat' (white, pvc) and she and mum were probably just as delighted when she was pregnant at fifteen. her clothes said she was available. prior to the coat no-one made that assumption.

It's a world gone mad when you can't call a tarty look tarty. How about just sexy then? Way too sexy IMO for a 13 year old, but I do agree you have to pick your battles.

Thanks everyone.

Dd1 didn't spend the money on leggings, shes going to wear a white t shirt tucked into a black skirt which is to the knee with tights those shoes and a leather look jacket.

Well tell her from me to have a good night !! (and stay safe)

mrebunnylove, I undersatns where you're coming from, but you lost me at "no-one made that assumption before he had the coat" I am pretty sure a coat doesn't get someone pregnant!

The fact that you say her and her mother were delighted that she was pregnant and 15 speaks volumes, but to blame the #2prossy" coat for the conception is a bit daft.

I wore some HORRENDOUS ourfits during my teens, some might have read these outfits as "I'm available", but I certainly never gave that impression myself.

I was actually terrified of sex, but liked to look "sexy".

Clothes do not determmine the person.

sorry for typos, trying to settle dc3 ....
Fore what it's worth, no way would I let my dd wear those clothes or shoes. She is still a little girl, no?

13 is very young but I'd let her wear them, there are much worse out there.

I don't see anything wrong with using the word "tarty".

Its very appropriate sometimes.

Angrybeaver have you actually dealt with a teenager recently? Clothes and shoes are a very big thing for them and actually no they aren't little girls. They are still children who need support and guidance and sometimes protection but they also need independance. It's not easy at all. I think here are some quite substantial differences that have arisen in opportunity over the last 20 years. Dd1 has a bit more disposable income than I had and she also has a greater selection of cheap clothes to choose from than I did. As a teen I would have loved to spend money on silly shoes When alls said and done clothes are just clothes. Not worth stressing about when there are plenty of other things that they do need a maternal hand to be taken.

No at 13 they are most certainly not a little girl. They are turning into independent strong women. School work is mad, deadlines to keep, sports is more competitive... It is not as though she is wearing this walking the dog (even though...) it is a bloody party!!

No northern, my dd is only 6. But, I still feel that 13 is very young, still a little girl. 14/15, big difference.

I really think that I would say no to these shoes and clothes at that age. Also, sleeping over after the party.
It just all seems too much too young!!

We don;t live in the UK and girls here do not seem to have the same issues at that age, thank god.

They probably snog boys and do naughty things Mums wouln't approve of, but, they stil - in the main- dress age appropriately.

By that I mean, shorts t-shirts, flip flops, not much make up...really casually.
I am glad of it, tbh.

Did see one girl (but late teens/maybe 20) where her shorts were so short, that she stood up to get off the ferry and you could see her, ahem, flappage

Black skirt, white t shirt ... not really radical is it and shoes well shoes are shoes. sorry Angry and I do not wish to speak out of turn but the transformation is undeliverable even in year 6 my 11 year old has changed and you can see her blossoming and is so ready for secondary school they do grow up overnight. They take their GCSEs at my DD school at 13 no room to be a little girl when chasing a*

indepdant strong women??At 13?
Maybe for some, at the cusp of childhood and adolecence...but a STRONG WOMAN?? I think not.
Quite disturbing that sentence, imo.

You just wait and see...I am proud my 14 year old is strong in her views, confident, self assured and intelligent and my nearly 13 is the same. You would be doing your DD a discredit if you did not bring her up to be the above. I know it sounds young and my DDs do not run riot and are in fact real home birds who never seem to venture further than the bottom of the yard...but yes I will describe them as strong, independent women (girls if that helps ??)

Well yes, strong independant girls, i have no propblem with!

But, laying the label of strong independant woman on a pair of 13/14 year old shoulders, is wrong, imo.

Dd1 has grown up a lot in the past few months, she'll be 14 in the summer, it's scary and I remember being 13 and being very young and then suddenly I was kissing boys and smoking (even though I had been dead set against it for years!!!)

It can be that quick..........

Dd1 is at the stage where hugging boys is ok, smoking is def not ok (I think it helps that it is far less socially acceptable these days and also that you have to be over 18 to buy them) God it's so hard letting them grow up.......I've explained to dd it's like taking your phone/ ipad to a field and leaving it there for a few hours and hope it's still there and hasn''t been damaged by the time you go back to get it (except I can't just go and buy another dd so she is even more precious than something that costs a few hundred pounds) I have said I know she probably thinks I'm ok mum just leave me to get on with it, I know what I'm doing, nothing is going to happen to me etc BUT the thing is everyone who has ever been snatched, abused etc thinks it won't happen to them, I was 19 when I was abused for 2 years and I thought I was old enough to look after myself but the truth is it still affects me now...........

What school is this where kids take their GCSE's at 13????

Sorry, to get back to the OP, I'm glad you've worked it all out and hope she has a great time. 13 is a really difficult age when it comes to appropriate clothing/ curfews and parties. All you can do is teach them as best you can about sensible behaviour and the dangers of not being sensible, and ensure that there are sober, sensible adults around in case of problems. I'd probably prefer my kids to be in a social club or somewhere than at a friends house as at least the club are more likely to abide by the underage drinking laws and there are always adults present, whereas I've had bad experiences (well, seen the consequences) of unsupervised parties in homes. The last one resulted in a girl hospitalised after downing a bottle of vodka, police being called, most of the kids being very sick and the only 4 girls present being (to quote the boys who were present) "passed round all night". Be warned!! (not aimed at OP but those who have younger children and don't think this would ever happen!)

I have a 13 year old boy and he is still a boy albeit one who needs to shave from time to time but many of the girls in his year are very womanly.

They are still young and need support and guidance but part of that is helping them learn how to handle life in a woman's body both in a biological and social context. You have to do that how you have supported them in every other developmental stage, taking little steps back and catching them when they fall.

Angry that is funny. I do use the term "Strong independant women" to them and so far no adverse affect to the use of such a noun!!

I know Xroads I shudder at the things I did as a 17 year old. Droppin grandom starngers off after a party, walking through town in the dark we feel we are invincible !! A strong, independant Woman !! hee hee
My DD has just come back from Spanish exchange and I was OK but her Dad worried to death!! It is a learning curve.

Pick your battles, I think this one might be one to let pass. Assuming you think the party hosts/location are fine, then I would let her go and make her outfit choices.

No, imnotmymum, I'm sure it hasn't! And you must do what you feel is right.
I just feel that they are very far from "women" at that age. Adolecents, yep, but not women for several years.
Not even young women at 13, I wouldn't have said.
14?15, big difference , like I said, maybe young women then.

for you Angry x

The clothes and shoes looked fine to me. I used to wear tiny mini skirts and stilletoes at that age!!

My dds are same age and I learned with my older lads to pick your battles.

I actually enjoyed the clothes phases, my lads were goths, emos and rockers all in space of 2 years. Now perfectly normal looking smart young men.

Anyway if you are going to stress about clothes you won't win. She will wear out what you pick and just change at her friends house just like I did.

Happy days....

I see that you and your daughter have reached an agreement now OP, but FWIW I agreed with your original post.

I think wet look leggings are too overtly sexy for a 13yo, and the shoes are too high. If I was having this argument with DD I would give in on the shoes but stick to my guns about the leggings.

I also use the word 'tarty' to describe a look that makes the wearer look like a prostitute. Not sure what would be a more pc way of saying that tbh, and I think it's important to discuss image with children, the sooner they learn that people judge on appearances (rightly or wrongly, they do) the better.

I can't begin to understand leggings and sexy in the same sentence.

I do remember the first year of nursing school ( in my day we trained properly on the wards and lived in the nursing home)

The girls who ran absolutely riot and shagged anything that moved were the girls who had turned up in frumpy outfits with correct fussy parents in tow. They were like wild animals let loose of parental control.

If you don't start to unwind the leash by degrees they don't learn.

I thought the outfit looked very sensible and mainstream to be honest.

AngryBeaver, no dought shorts and flip flops are wonderful where you live but not really suitable attire here in cold cold Engkand at the moment, you lucky bigger...

Why have I got flowers!

thebody, yes, I understand it's differnt in the Uk. Fashion is not as big a deal here! It's more sport and stuff.

the body you're right of course, wearing 'tarty' clothes does not make you a prostitute, any more than wearing a frumpy outfit makes you a paragon of virtue. But unfortunately judgements are made based on your attire, which is why most people dress smartly for an interview.

I don't think it's wrong at all to teach children that it's important to create a positive impression on people, and at about 13yo - when they are beginning to push boundaries and assert their individuality - is a good time to do it IMO. Of course they might completely ignore you, but if you've got a good relationship and you've consistently proven to them that you have good judgement, and they value your opinion, it doesn't have to be a big deal.

I agree about presenting a positive impression but I also think it is useful to learn a sense of audience in terms of what is appropriate in different settings. What we wear, how we speak and what we do varies depending on where we are and who we are with.

Because angry I just felt like giving you them before you are unleashed with a tenn. Regards fashion and sport my kids are competitive sports players both for school and county so I cannot see what you mean. Sports clothes for sports, comfy clothes in house, wet weather for hiking up moors onesies for chilling and wedges and party clothes for party !!!

Well, thank you, it's always nice to recieve flowers.

I am quite pissed now, so going to bed!

INfact, very pissed and have forgotten how to spell

Strong independant women are what strong, assertive, independant girls with good self esteem grow up to be. Which is why parents have to let them fly - albeit with the Mother Eagle flapping along behind, dictating landing sites.
Nobody wants their child to be inappropriately older than their age but we do have to accept that they will probably grow up quicker than we expect and you can't stop that. My 15 yr old will play with her sisters as well as going to coffee shops and buying shoes. It's about a balance I think.

It's also about remebering how old your children are! Dd1 is 14, 15 in 6 weeks

YABU! your fear of her being dehydrated is your reason for not letting her go, thats a bit extreme! Secondly, when you were a teenager didn't you wear things which you may not wear now or that your mother wasn't happy about wearing.

No. Just quite simply, no. Not a chance.

DD2 is 13. The last party with adults that she went to, in the village hall, she wore a skater style dress, shoes with little heels and a messy up-do. She looked like a funky Audrey Hepburn. Last sleepover type party (girls only) was probably shorts, tights and Converse. Totally age appropriate.
DD1 is 17, wears what she likes, so quite short shorts and tights, body con type dresses, but she keeps it covered up. She is quite scathing about girls who let it all hang out. I don't police what she wears but then fortunately it's never been an issue because I laid the law down when she was younger.

You sound a lovely and sensible, realistic mother who has got things just right. She also sounds a lovely DD and her outfit sounds a great choice- suitable for her age and the event. And although you were worried about her budgeting it sounds like she sensibly saved Christmas money and put it all together for the ipad and then bought an outfit for this party which hopefully she'll be able to use in different combinations in the future. If shes anything like my DD that leather jacket will barely leave her body from now on!

13 year olds all go through that awkward phase where they just desperately want to fit in whether through being trendy or good at something or whatever. Clothes and parties may not be where you want her to get her self-esteem from but this sort of thing is where most 13 year old will either feel good or bad about themselves.
At least its not a short skirt and crop top, sounds like she does know about dressing appropriately and that you have laid down clear and realistic boundaries.

Sorry to hear what you went to and glad you are trying to make sure your DD never has so suffer like you did in an abusive relationship

PS remember to tell her how lovely she looks and wish her a good night from me

Ok, I am sober, and I still think no!

And I wouldn't care if there was an almighty row over it, the outfit is far too old for her years..."no is a complete sentence"

Still, everyone is different and if you are ok with it, that's up to you.

northern I agree that strong independant girls grow into strong independant women. However they are NOT women at 13. That is SO young. Far too young to be wearing towering platform heels!!

Yes, pick your battles and all that, but I would pick this one!

I would think a 13 year old in those shoes with wet look leggins, would look ridiculous...like a mini 18 year old.

I was with a 12 year old (13 soon) last weekend (she was taller than me and I'm nearly 5'9)
She had a floaty (shortish) summer dress on and roman sandals, a hairband with a biggish flower on the side, no make up. She looked lovely.
And guess what? Despite her size, she was a little girl!

@angry- absolutely right the coat didn't make her pregnant. the mum's attitude did. she was a nice little girl until the mum made her 'more exciting' in her 'prossy coat'. just an example of giving an impression of yourself which others then respond to.

Honestly angry - come back when your dd is 13 and see which battles you're fighting. Don't get me started on the leaving the house without a coat thing...........

DD (13) went to a party last week in some ridculously high heels, which she took off when she got there, a skirt which was a mini at the front and long at the back (hideous) and a lacy top. She looked, unusual, and very, very tall, but I told her she looked great.

And that really annoying hair, sort of a big quiff thing at the front and long at the back. Why?

I think no and clothes as long as they are decent is pretty pointless, unless they are going to a wedding or off hiking.

My 15 yo does sensible middle of the road clothes, because that's the way she approaches everything in life.

My just 12 yo oscillates between little girl and rock chick, has since she was about 9. I suspect she always will. She is blessed with the sort of looks and colouring that let her be quietly pretty or quite striking.

She's going to spend the next 10 years playing with her style and I'm certain I shall have to pick my battles very wisely.

I think the shoes are absolutely fine, but paired with the wetlook leggings could be a bit much. Depends massively on the top though, a sort of long loose T shirt thing fine, a tight vest top probably not.

There are bigger battles, and wedges and leggings at 13 really isn't bad trust me....it's when they want to go out in those little lycra knicker shorts and stillettos you need to draw the line!

The op has updated to say she is wearing a top, jacket and knee length skirt with tights and the shoes. Sounds fine

Nice to see she's picked a slightly more conservative outfit now though

For any future posters like OP who are having teenager footwear issues...just let me know if you want me to post pictures of my big fat freaky bunions to put them off!!

But I still won't admit to my mother she was right...

northern, you may be right...but,fuck, I hope not!
I am hoping that having moved away from the "sleb culture" we will not have to go through all of this!

We were the last of our social group to start a family, so all our friends have children 12/13/14... none of them dress in the kinda stuff the OP is talking about

The overwhelming look even for parties, seems very dress-down and slightly tom-boy-ish, but with make-up and quite elaborate but messy up-dos

But, nothing even remotely revealing, or body-con, or 'wet-look leggings with heels'

Did I click on the right link? They're mary-jane style wedges yes. Perfectly fine for a 13 year old.

Anyway, I think her revised look sounds lovely - sophisticated and a bit hip (although I think hip is a seriously un-hip word)

Am totally with you LaQueen, although we seem to be in the minority. I am mystified.

I think wet look legging (which resemble pvc???) are far from suitable for a <mega phone> THIRTEEN YEAR OLD!

And wedges are heels. Why would 13 year old need to wear high heels?

I just don't see why we are supporting our daughter's in their desire to look like 16/17/18 year olds.

You lot are making me feel like a conservative old fart! (I am 34)

Non of the girls around here dress like that, thank fuck. I think they'd stand out a mile if they did and be ridiculed.

I just read out some of this thread to dh.
He said "is this in England?" I said it was.
He laughed and said, "you wouldn't get that from the girls here, they's wear baseball boots with socks, shorts and top, but they look great, like kids should look"
And both said at the same time "happy". There isn't the pressure of conformity here. Hooray

I agree with LaQueen and AngryBeaver

I'd be more concerned about the shoes than the leggings though, 13 is too young really to be wearing heels like that

It's very sudden, the flip from tomboy grunge to bodycon/tan/no knickers.

It seems to happen overnight here, just about as the kids hit their second year in secondary (14 here).

All of a sudden they stop wearing jeans and uggs 365 days a year and look like this

That link looks like our sixth form, the second they are let out of uniform.
Mind you some of their in uniform skirts are that short.

The HT's war seems to have passed them by.

I can only go from seeing our friend's DDs, who are that bit older - and the girls we have to babysit the DDs, who are 16/17...and, that glam look really doesn't seem to be fashionable with them?

I've also spent quite a bit of time recently at our local girls grammar school, too - and on non-uniform days they don't seem to wear anything revealing, or glamorous? Plenty of make-up, and carefully dishevelled up-dos, but their clothes seem quite casual, with a lot of Jack Wills stuff (I think it's called that?).

Might be a regional thing? We're pretty rural around here, just with small market towns and the nearest city is nearly 20 miles away.

Personally, I think that 13 year old girls, should actually look like 13 year old girls and not like 17/18 year old young women.

I firmly believe in picking my battles once they become teenagers (as opposed to being the Benign Despot that I currently am) but ensuring they wear age appropriate clothing is one battle I will definitely fight. And win.

But, like I say, I doubt it will be much of a battle, as their peer group don't seem to dress in age inappropriate ways, anyway.

Maryz That is how the year 8s at DD's school dress.

I think I'm clearly too old...when I had my little beauty salon, I flatly refused to spray tan/wax anyone under the age of 16

This takes me back. When was 13 my friend had a "dinner party" at hers one midsummers eve, all girls, she wore a vintage ballgown with feathery bodice, another friend wore lace collar 60s type dress, I wore a black low-cut french connection lycra minidress and heels, an outfit that the OP would definitely consider "tarty" (mum is a feminist and just told me I looked lovely), we drank wine and ate spaghetti, there's a picture of us by her front door in the evening sunlight looking sooooo young and fabulous!

Wish could pull off that outfit now!

, alrighty then!