To think the Beyonce ad is ludicrously self indulgent?!

(150 Posts)
steben Wed 20-Feb-13 20:21:11

It is isn't it? Not just me? I really like her and her music but come on.

I've just seen it and said exactly that to DH. Still not sure quite what it was for even.

crazynanna Wed 20-Feb-13 20:24:42

It's for her tour...and DD has saved hard to go....her and dd1.

Tickets were extortionate!

thebody Wed 20-Feb-13 20:26:18

She's a tad boring really.

crazynanna Wed 20-Feb-13 20:27:57

I agree thebody but dare not say it in front of dd wink

rodandtheemu Wed 20-Feb-13 20:28:24

I think its great.. she is a mega star so why not! All the worlds a stage and all!

cocolepew Wed 20-Feb-13 20:28:52

I'm not sure why she appears to be the queen of everything atm, she's not that talented.

Spice17 Wed 20-Feb-13 20:30:39

I love it and don't know why! Perhaps because the outfit is so amazingly extravagant and regaal looking?

<slinks off wondering whats come over me>

colleysmill Wed 20-Feb-13 20:31:55

I have no idea what it is advertising!

rodandtheemu Wed 20-Feb-13 20:32:37

ha ha ooh green eyed monsters i think........or that your turning in to old bags! wink

colleysmill Wed 20-Feb-13 20:34:12

Ha ha no green eyed monster! I genuinely have no idea what its for.

cocolepew Wed 20-Feb-13 20:34:14

I'm not jealous hmm, I just think her, and her husband, are a bit meh.

SoulTrain Wed 20-Feb-13 20:35:18

She's amazing. That is all

AnyFucker Wed 20-Feb-13 20:36:16

She has, and continues to, make a career out of putting one foot sexily in front of the other

The joke is on all of us for thinking she is anything but a fame-driven puppet of misogyny

That joker DJ is scary

steben Wed 20-Feb-13 20:36:51

No malice intended I just think that whilst I like it and like her it is just very ott

Her voice is dire, sorry.

Agree with AF.

MidnightMasquerader Wed 20-Feb-13 20:41:15

What's the ad?

cocolepew Wed 20-Feb-13 20:41:57

I like Justin Timberlake's new single then Jay Z comes in and ruin it with his ridiculous rap.

thebody Wed 20-Feb-13 20:42:25

Jealous of her money true but to be honest my arse is much smaller so happy about that!!

chickensarmpit Wed 20-Feb-13 20:43:25

She looked a bit grey to me. She didn't look her usual self.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 20-Feb-13 20:49:18

I'm not a fan, I don't get her at all.
But I'm old, my niece saw her at T in the Park and thought she was amazing.
DS was at the same festival and wandered off to look at obscure bands that I've never heard of.
Each to their own, really.
I would hate to sound like our parents/grandparents did and say 'ooh the music of today etc etc', and disapprove.

someoftheabove Wed 20-Feb-13 20:51:10

I think the outfit is amazing. Don't care much for her and her man, though.

Ariel24 Wed 20-Feb-13 20:57:49

I used to really like her but she is so irritating these days. So attention seeking and she seems quite arrogant too.

SoulTrain Wed 20-Feb-13 20:58:22

Of course. She must be a puppet. She must be dominated by men. She must be a slave to an industry that hates. Bore off - its just pop music.

AnyFucker Wed 20-Feb-13 20:59:46

You stick to your opinion, ST, I'll stick to mine

SoulTrain Wed 20-Feb-13 21:00:46

Yes, you do that.

JustCallMeFish Wed 20-Feb-13 21:02:11

I love Miss B.

Or Mrs J.

Whatever she be.

SoulTrain Wed 20-Feb-13 21:05:06

siddles up to Fish

Naysa Wed 20-Feb-13 21:05:16

Her skin is so light now sad makes me sad that she is a role model for so many young girls and is basically saying that it is bad to have dark skin.

LessMissAbs Wed 20-Feb-13 21:16:29

Kind of a triumph of style over substance, but on a very grand scale...

scarletforya Wed 20-Feb-13 21:20:23

Don't know but she's ludicrously overrated. I don't get her music. It's shit.

AnyFucker Wed 20-Feb-13 21:23:48

"if you like it put a ring on it

Nah, thanks anyway

GetOrf Wed 20-Feb-13 21:29:35

What anyfucker said with knobs on.

rodandtheemu Wed 20-Feb-13 21:33:08

Oh my goodness.....
differnt stroke for different folks and all. I think she is a great role model. She dosnt smash hotels up, dosnt do drugs dosnt starve herself to death! Just look at all the award she has won and all the albums that have gone platinum, so a lot of people do like her! Me included! She is a show girl, we dont have many of those - or would you prefer a group sitting on stools?

''who run the world? GIRLS! '' wooooop grin

willesden Wed 20-Feb-13 21:36:45

She has thighs like tree trunks. I am mesmerised by them every time she prances about with very little on again.

carlajean Wed 20-Feb-13 21:38:38

so glad to see this thread - I think she's OK, but the video is crazy, and not in a good way. Also find it odd how pale skinned she looks, like she has to disguise that she's coloured.

SwedishEdith Wed 20-Feb-13 21:40:02

Wouldn't cross the road to see her. Seems like Michael Jackson and his King of Pop delusions all over again.

babyfirefly1980 Wed 20-Feb-13 21:40:39

Yanbu...that advert makes my arse cheeks clench.

Naysa Wed 20-Feb-13 21:40:44

carlajean google "beyonce skin lightening" same for Rihanna.


VenusRising Wed 20-Feb-13 21:43:44

I feel she's believing all the hype about herself, and has lost 'it'.

I had to laugh when she was saving her voice for a football match, and didn't sing for Obama. That really was unbelievably strange.
Apparently she lip synced her pregnancy too.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 20-Feb-13 21:45:17

Is she really lighter skinned than before?
I haven't noticed, as I said my niece loved her at T in the Park.
She's mixed race, though darker than Beyonce.
I don't think colour came into it at all for her, she loves her music and her live gigs. She's 26, and has a huge range of stuff she listens too.
I think we're in danger of looking at the music our kids love, and doing exactly as our parents did.
So ,like on this thread, we're all catsbum mouth and it wouldn't have happened in our day. And (channeling my late Dad), 'we never used to listen to rubbish like this'.
Maybe, just maybe, our kids just like the music.
Or is that a stupid concept?

scrablet Wed 20-Feb-13 21:59:43

Never noticed any boobs moving like a bum with the walk before this ad...

Still don't know what it's for tho'

SwedishEdith Wed 20-Feb-13 22:10:16

My teen doesn't like her music though so I don't think it's generational at all. In fact, I would guess her music just appeals to people who just like that type of music - nothing to do with age. Must admit, I don't really hear it too much as don't listen to radio stations that play her stuff, thank god.

BenjaminButton172 Wed 20-Feb-13 22:12:44

I have a few beyonce albums as some of her songs are good. I can not stand watching her 'live' as she doesnt sing. Her most recent gig that i have seen was The Super Bowl she sang about one line from each song & then wailed throughout the rest of the songs.

OP i dont get the o2 advert either. She looks seriously airbrushed. She looks whiter than me and i am whiter than snow.

blueemerald Wed 20-Feb-13 22:13:39

It's for o2 priority tickets, isn't it?

Another view on the skin lightening row I think Bim Adewunmi has a point but Beyonce does look extremely pale....

BamBamAndPebbles Wed 20-Feb-13 22:25:23

Isn't being pale part of the costume.

That era was all pale faces and red lips.

She didn't look that pale at the Super Bowl

catlady1 Wed 20-Feb-13 22:26:23

rodand doesn't starve herself except when she does that ridiculous maple syrup fast to lose weight for her film role, and then bangs on about it knowing full well that 99% of her fans are 12 year old girls.

She never used to bother me but lately she's starting to annoy me. I think it's that face she does, I can't explain it but it's like she's trying to look composed or important. My sister does it when she's on her high horse about something. I don't know why it pisses me off so much! Either that or just that she's gone a bit rubbish but people still hold her up as some sort of hero.

rodandtheemu Wed 20-Feb-13 22:33:13

Well i like her each to there own...but dont get me started on Donnie

Lovecat Wed 20-Feb-13 22:41:53

I find that advert disturbing. Something about the way she's just standing there passively while they're putting her clothes on her, that horrible crinoline cage thing and the tacky necklace (complete with pic of her maaan) and fitting the mace into her hand... she doesn't look Queenly or in control. She looks like some odd burlesque fantasy of a stripper dressing up as a Queen.

I find it unsettling. Don't start me on that 'Girls (rule the world)' bag of shite masquerading as a song either. It goes nowhere and makes a claim that is so transparently untrue that it's laughable. Just a bit of ego-boosting for hen parties. Independent Woman on the other hand... <sigh>

SinisterBuggyMonth Wed 20-Feb-13 22:47:21

YANBU its been annoying me for ages. I think its the over production of the ad, ridiculously bling costumes and the fact that she cant even be bothered to sing on it or muster an expression beyond "vacant stare, vacant stare, vacante stare to the left, oh look my boobs"

AnyFucker Wed 20-Feb-13 22:51:22

don't forget the foot placement

it takes a lot of talent to place one foot in front of another like Beyonce does

Lovecat Wed 20-Feb-13 22:52:05

grin that's exactly what DH said about it:

<eyes down> 'ooh look, I have boobs'

<eyes back to camera> 'Yes. They're mine.'

UhOhChongo Wed 20-Feb-13 22:53:55

Didn't Jamelia do something similar years ago in her "Money" video?

twitchycurtains Wed 20-Feb-13 23:41:25

YADBU, she is terribly self indulgent. Every move, every photocall, every single, every tv appearance is horribly pre rehersed and not at all spontaneous or natural. She is undoubtably beautiful but hate, hate the way she is held up as some bastion of real womanhood on the basis of having a huge arse (compared to the rest of her body). It was the same with Jennifer Lopez a few years ago-bloody everywhere and touted as 'real' and a 'role-model' when she was/is anything but.

As you can tell I'm not really a fan, as a mum of a daughter I would hate for my daughter to look to her as some sort of role model. Eurgh.

twitchycurtains Wed 20-Feb-13 23:47:00

meant YADNBU

BegoniaBampot Wed 20-Feb-13 23:57:02

Oh don't. My lovely, beautiful, Intelligent hard working niece is besotted with her and tries to go to every concert. Just want to sneak a few Joni Mitchell tracks onto her CD player.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 21-Feb-13 00:10:19

She's not for us old fogies though, is she?
Just as Zeppelin and Bowie and Pink Floyd were not for my parents.
She's a singer, not a role model, and never claimed to be.
I'm trying to think of my female music role models when I was growing up.
So that would be Joni Mitchell, er Susie Quatro, oh and her who danced topless with Hawkwind.
So at 56, I'm a folk singing leather clad rocker. Or not.
I think our kids are intelligent enough to like the music, and move on from it, just let them be.
If my parents had tried to influence my music, I'd have rebelled.

SoleSource Thu 21-Feb-13 00:21:16

I do not fancy her.

WorraLiberty Thu 21-Feb-13 00:24:01

Meh! She's got a fantastic singing voice, she's young, she's pretty, she's very successful.

Good luck to her and long may it last.

I hate the fucking advert's just weird.

WorraLiberty Thu 21-Feb-13 00:25:40

Sole do you have to break her heart like this so publicly?

Could you not have shown a tad of human decency and let her down gently?

Spoken to her in private maybe? sad

You're so cruel and heartless...I suggest you ask HQ to remove your post before she sees it.


SoleSource Thu 21-Feb-13 00:33:46


I am the original ice queen.

you're a bit of a dish Worra, wey hey!

ToomuchWaternotWine Thu 21-Feb-13 00:36:04

I am told the ad (for O2 priority tickets for her tour) is playing on the fact she is "known", or her nickname is, Queen B. As in, she rules the music world (highly debateable) and is very controlling of her brand/image (true). She likes the QB moniker and encourages it, so not really surprised the ad makers latched onto this as a way of getting her involved.

<and no, I can't tell you who told me this or I'd have to shoot the lot of you wink )

chroniclackofimagination Thu 21-Feb-13 00:37:12

I like her voice and her music and I think she's very very talented, maybe one of the best live performers there are. I am concerned generally with talented famous women wearing hardly any clothes to promote themselves and their products.

I love that she tours and performs with an exclusively female band of musicians (who are also amazing)

There's something very American and a kind of unselfconscious self promotion that just doesn't translate well here I think.

WorraLiberty Thu 21-Feb-13 00:39:09

Sole so is horse lasagne grin

squeakytoy Thu 21-Feb-13 00:41:22

I like some of her songs.. I watched her Superbowl performance and it was shite.

SoleSource Thu 21-Feb-13 00:46:15

Neeeighhh to that! smile

MyCannyBairn Thu 21-Feb-13 05:11:52

What twitchy said.

OhMerGerd Thu 21-Feb-13 07:32:47

Beyonce and husband are no better or no worse than the Beckhams. While relatively young they exploited their individual 'talent' successfully have hooked up, created a joint image which is a separate income stream from the original individual earner and got mega rich as a result. Some people value their talents and others don't.
I can't find anything to like in the Beckhams for example although I can see that David was good at playing football. The Beyonces I can't find anything to like in either ( is he JayZee or is that Maria Careys bloke? Anyway I digress a lot ...)but I can see that Beyonce is a good entertainer. If I was given tickets to see either Beckham play ( scratch that I wouldn't really be interested just cos he was playing ) ok to a footy match he was in because there'd be lots of top players, or a Beyonce concert I'd very very happily go but I'd never pay to see either.

So ... That's my rather long winded way of saying I'm not a fan of Beyonce's in fact I'm pretty indifferent but I think the ad is fantastic and she looks amazing in it. It does haves strong feminist message in it for all it's glorification of the body image it's a powerful woman confident and in control of her body and sexuality rather than the usual passive female.
It does exactly what I imagine the producers wanted to do. Which is create a sense of occasion, expection and excitement. Presents Beyonce as the star attraction, larger than life, powerful sexy woman and she looks absolutely beautiful.
If I looked like that I'd be purring like a cat at my own reflection and swishing my tail to draw attention to my curves too.

She's not fat (and good for you if your thighs are thinner if that's what makes you happy we all need little things to boost our fragile egos) but she's got no more ego than anyone else in her industry and I don't for one minute think she believes the hype.

I may have missed it but I dont recall seeing much comment on the advert with Beckham running around in his pants. Really MUmsNetters when you consider that his ad is aimed at us there should be a hundred threads on here about all that is very wrong with it.
The difference between her and Beckham is she's a woman. I've noticed over the years that sometimes some women do find it harder to celebrate other women and especially when they are smart, rich and look sexy.
Touch of the green eyed monster OP ? I don't know but I'd say YAB a bit U.

OneHundredSecondsofSolitude Thu 21-Feb-13 07:42:57

She's beautiful but does seen to suffer from the same skin condition that blighted poor Michael Jackson

TheCountessOlenska Thu 21-Feb-13 07:50:36

I agree with what OhMerGerd said.

But I wish her face wasn't so bleached out in that ad.

MrsBucketxx Thu 21-Feb-13 07:56:35

I quiet like the add.

but her name drives me crazy, as its pronounced it should be beyonce with a é shouldn't it?

carlajean Thu 21-Feb-13 08:33:15

I liked the Beckham advert because it was tongue in cheek and fun. There's an enormous difference between that and the Beyonce one, where she is shown as a doll being dressed in constrictive clothes (that ridiculous metal crinoline, the corset, the high heeled boots) that, in my mind fetishise her, prancing around like a mechanical toy. I think it's a text-book example of how society presents men and women. It's all so po-faced as well.

OhMerGerd Thu 21-Feb-13 08:40:13

Bleach, smeach ... Cut the woman some slack. It's a stylised Elizabethan look... Don't read too much into it. In a highly controlling industry she has wrestled back some control and she's bucking the trend on the gender thing. Away from the advertising bill boards where the customer calls the shots she certainly doesn't make herself out to be anything other than a black woman, married to a black man with a black child. She seems smart and knows how to choose her battles.
I haven't heard that she suffers from vitiligo and I can see no signs of it so I don't think she has the same condition that MJ had. Poor MJ the product of a very different time when his ethnicity was very much a challenge for him to overcome. Thankfully although prejudice still exists I don't think Beyonce is struggling with her identity in that way.
Sometimes people project their own insecurities and prejudices onto people like Beyonce. I like the ad.

HellesBelles396 Thu 21-Feb-13 08:45:46

ok - the ad is weird - but I agree with ohmygerd.

TandB Thu 21-Feb-13 08:48:27

The only Beyonce related thing I've got any time for is All the Single Ladies - not because it's a good song, because it's a load of arse - but because it provided the framework for our household's favourite cover version:

All the stinky babies, all the stinky babies
If you're stinky then we'll have to put some pants on you

I agree about that awful girls run the world song - Girls Aloud have done something similar. It just makes it quite clear that girls do not run the world. If they did, they'd be getting on with running the world, rather than dancing around in their pants, singing about it. It's infantile and trivial and it makes me grit my teeth every time. I always have a vision of David Cameron et all, dancing around their offices singing "Blokes! We're proper in charge, we are!"

renlo Thu 21-Feb-13 08:56:04

Oh yea, how dare a black woman has the audacity to be successful, beautiful and talented? She should know her place and not challenge the western ideals of beauty. We prefer black women to be dark skinned and have big bums which are not attractive to white men don't we?angry Get a grip. Loads of white women in the entertainment industry are drama queens, tan themselves and inject themselves with all sorts plump their lips, boobs whatever but ooh aren't they gorgeous! its called an act. She's an entertainer, they sell an image aimed to generate as much cash as possible. She has never claimed to be anyone's role model, and why should she? She does her, you do you and be happy. If you don't like it you don't have to watch her. All this stuff about her big thighs and bum and her bleaching her skin are nothing more than attacks from insecure white women who scared of losing their place as the 'ideal beauty standard'. You all know it and yes I said it, sue me. Shame on all of you.

carlajean Thu 21-Feb-13 08:58:27

so you're happy with a black woman using skin bleaching to make herself more attractive?

renlo Thu 21-Feb-13 09:05:55

who says she is bleaching? you have concrete proof she is definitely bleaching her slime do you? Believe it or not black people come in many different hues. Ancestry, makeup, studio lighting, airbrushing and all that can also play its part. I have seen Beyonce on real life, she is darker than my daughter who has two full black parents. I have seen black women who bleach their skins and its obvious. I don't know for certain she does or not but I'm not arrogant enough to assume that just because she looks lighter under certain conditions she must be bleaching

noddyholder Thu 21-Feb-13 09:10:42

Really gone off her. Along with her dh way too much power. Have heard stories from people who work with them a lot and they are not nice people at all

TandB Thu 21-Feb-13 09:11:28

I think you've rather missed the point people are making.

No woman, black white or rainbow coloured, should feel the need to change something as fundamental as their skin colour in order to satisfy a particular idea of beauty.

And if the ideal standard of beauty is that of white women, as you say, then a beautiful black woman changing herself to get closer to that ideal isn't exactly challenging the "ideal beauty standard", is it? It's reinforcing it.

PORRIDGEANYONE Thu 21-Feb-13 09:14:54
renlo Thu 21-Feb-13 09:17:47

I'm not the one arguing that she has bleached her skin though. Somehow that accusation seems to be thrown out fairly regularly to black people who don't look like Alek Wek. They're all so insecure they have yo bleach their skin to look like white women. Oh please. She is beautiful in her own right and I for one highly doubts she bleaches her skin. She shouldn't have to defend her colouring. When was the last time a white woman was asked to defend herself for looking tanned?

noddyholder Thu 21-Feb-13 09:19:24

Haha all those pics she wanted destroyed. Agree with previous poster who said it is about all women feeling that pressure. She does look very light in that ad though just hope it is make up as friend went to us to study and did this and now 20 plus years later her skin is destroyed and she really regrets it

noddyholder Thu 21-Feb-13 09:21:20

I think it's fine to say she looks whiter no one is saying that is better here fromwhatbi am reading apart from you!

OhMerGerd Thu 21-Feb-13 09:39:00

I have yet to hear of one female'celebrity' who does not want the pictures of an earlier incarnation destroyed. They stay hidden until they get to about 55 when they are pushing them all over the media for us all to gush about their youthful beauty or quirky rebellious style. By then they have been on the journey and can look back on it all without do much angst.
Think Cher ( the new one .. Uk version) She will be frantically trying to bury all those awfully cheap looking, bad makeup and hard attitude pics she was so proud of only a few short months ago and wanting to project her new more wholesome verging on the modern Stepford US image. Isnt this a class betrayal and even a national betrayal ? Will MN threads abound full of people saying...oh Cher why do you feel the need to hide your DIY tattoos wear such chintzy outfits and buff up your hair in that all american cheerleader style you're letting down the gals from the estates with your americanized poshedBleach, smeach ... Cut the woman some slack. It's a stylised Elizabethan look... Don't read too much into it. In a highly controlling industry she has wrestled back some control and she's bucking the trend on the gender thing. Away from the advertising bill boards where the customer calls the shots she certainly doesn't make herself out to be anything other than a black woman, married to a black man with a black child. She seems smart and knows how to choose her battles.
I haven't heard that she suffers from vitiligo and I can see no signs of it so I don't think she has the same condition that MJ had. Poor MJ the product of a very different time when his ethnicity was very much a challenge for him to overcome. Thankfully although prejudice still exists I don't think Beyonce is struggling with her identity in that way.
Sometimes people project their own insecurities and prejudices onto people like Beyonce. I like the ad. up ways.
I'm going off to start an aibu regarding the Beckham ad.

OhMerGerd Thu 21-Feb-13 09:41:13

Oops that's weird. I'm on the phone so can't cut it out but you get the drift ! Lol. Any off to start up my aibu.

carlajean Thu 21-Feb-13 09:42:48

OhMerGerd why have you just cut and pasted your previous message?

rodandtheemu Thu 21-Feb-13 09:52:54

What a bunch of old bags!! completly Agree with renlo ! Bossom Hoikers out in force on here!

Im a bit confused as i thought this thread started out light hearted but ended up being a nasty bitch fest.....

go listen to ur radio 4....

KellyElly Thu 21-Feb-13 09:55:43

I love it. The costumes are fab.

valiumredhead Thu 21-Feb-13 11:03:03

"if you like it put a ring on it"

Makes me cringe every time I hear that song.

simplesusan Thu 21-Feb-13 11:22:45

I don't like the ad.
I think she looks stupid, too passive and sluttish, and that's putting it mildly.
I don't think she is a good role model at all.
I would have far more respect for her if she came across as less sexually passive.
Everytime I see her she strikes me as playing out a role as some dumb porn star in a trashy porn flick.

You never see men acting like this.

I have more respect for women who don't appear as passive, those in control of their bodies and sexuality. Pink is a good example. She does as she pleases not as told to by some director.
You cannot believe that Beyonce seriously walks around posing like that naturally. Mouth slightly open, gasping, seductivly stroking her breast, one hand above her head, now stroke hair, mouth ajar, tilt head to one side, put on fuck me eyes, oh dominate me cos I am a slut and under your control.

valiumredhead Thu 21-Feb-13 11:24:32

I love the ad, the costumes are fantastic - I had no idea it was Beyonce when I first saw it.

lesserspottedshitehawk Thu 21-Feb-13 12:03:11

Just waiting for the youtube upload of frantic mners sreeching " leave Beyonce alooooooooooooooone".

I've yet to figure out what the big deal is about her. The various alter egos. sasha fierce? Ffs Queen B? Apparently a nickname she gave herself

As with Rhianna, as with Madonna, as with Lady Gaga if they keep their clothes on and stop writhing around and just bloody sing we'll see if they actually are a singer worth their salt

Pigsmummy Thu 21-Feb-13 12:07:31

She is ludicrously self indulgent though so how is this a surprise to you?

swooosh Thu 21-Feb-13 12:31:37

She doesn't look that light skinned in real life. If you look at her in Destinys Child when she was around 17/18 she looks the same skin colour. It's just video/photo editing.

I LOVE her. I've got tickets to see her this year and cannot bloody wait!

AmberSocks Thu 21-Feb-13 12:34:35

I LOVE Beyonce,she really is the queen of everything,she can sing and dance amazingly and she is beautiful.

AmberSocks Thu 21-Feb-13 12:39:00

she has always been light skinned there photos of her as a teen and she was light,her mum is mixed race so shes not 100 per cent black.

ladydepp Thu 21-Feb-13 15:07:47

I am a boring white middle class R4 listener and I think Beyonce is fantastic. She looks like a real woman, with fabulous legs that aren't skinny little twigs. She is an amazing dancer, a great singer and a very successful businesswoman. She is probably a bit of a diva sometimes and some of her songs don't appeal to me at all.

But... I would much rather have her as a role model for my dd than some skinny talent-free supermodel / page 3 wannabe / Katie Price type, who's career is based entirely on her looks and ability to take her top off. Beyonce has proper talent and staying power.

She was amazing at Glastonbury when she headlined and I am thrilled to have tickets to her latest tour.

As for the ad, no opinion either way, but it did remind me to buy tickets! And the costumes, fabulous!!

QueefLatina Thu 21-Feb-13 16:02:28

I suppose it could be seen as similar to a lot of the conceptual stuff that Bowie was doing in the 70's and 80's. Ziggy Stardust, Thin White Duke etc.

<sitting on the fence>

He often wore skimpy costumes too!

bedmonster Thu 21-Feb-13 16:38:26

Yanbu, tis ludicrously self indulgent. But I will be indulging her ego as I got tickets this morning! I've seen her before and its the one of the best concerts I've ever been to so I'm looking forward to it. Not bothered if you lot don't like her, I'll have a better view with fewer crowds!!

Boomerwang Thu 21-Feb-13 16:48:06

Her kid has straight black hair and no noticeable negro facial characteristics. That's more spooky I think.

Fillyjonk75 Thu 21-Feb-13 16:48:22

I thought being self indulgent was the point. Marie-Antoinette theme.

Boomerwang Thu 21-Feb-13 16:48:47

Uh I just realised 'negro' is probably a slur and I absolutely would like to retract that word and replace it with 'black'

Naysa Thu 21-Feb-13 17:07:28

I'm not talking about this ad when I talk about her skin lightening. I saw a picture of her on facebook and didn't believe it was here.

Just a couple of quick examples:

This is the picture I saw and couldn't believe it was her

Comparison picture

Another comparison

Beyonce "before"

I'm well aware of how different lighting and makeup works btw, and I don't think that can be put down to bright light. Daylight does not make someone with dark skin look white.

GothAnneGeddes Thu 21-Feb-13 17:09:43


How on earth is claiming that Beyonce's entire career is just that "she can put one foot in front of the other, sexily" a feminist viewpoint? No, a statement like that is a supercilious insult masquerading as insight.

For a really good overview of Beyonce from a race and feminist perspective, I recommend this:

I'm struggling to find the links now, but certainly when Single Ladies came out, there was quite a lot of discussion about the song in the Black feminist blogosphere, particularly regarding black women and marriage and it was a whole other perspective.

Naysa Thu 21-Feb-13 17:11:20

Oh btw, I love Beyonce's music, I just think that it's sad that she is seen as a strong black role model yet she is skin bleaching.

Fillyjonk75 Thu 21-Feb-13 17:23:29

I thought she looked very pale too, glad it wasn't just me. In fact I had no idea it was Beyonce as she looked so different, the first few times I saw it.

chibi Thu 21-Feb-13 17:31:06

how do you know she is bleaching her skin? it seems weird to repeat that kind of assertion without any proof at all

i know my skin appears different in colour depending on what time of year it is, whether i am ill, the lighting etc etc etc

Naysa Thu 21-Feb-13 17:50:35

Have you seen the pictures?

Everyone's skin changes due to the time of year.

Beyonce's father is African American, he mother is a mix of African, Native American. I highly doubt that a change of season would make her appear Caucasian.

chibi Thu 21-Feb-13 18:16:32

she has not ever looked caucasian confused

magazines etc edit and Photoshop pics to suit their own agenda- a major example was Time magazine darkening OJ Simpson's mugshot to make him look darker.

the most recent footage of her performing at the superbowl or 'performing' (ha!) at Obama's inauguration show her skin looking much as it always has

BigSpork Thu 21-Feb-13 18:24:11

Women of Colour have been whitewashed in photography by the media - digitally and with lighting effects - for a long time. Because lighter equals more power. here are a few examples involving plenty of women who do not use skin lightening products who end up appearing very light, and many to the point of appearing White, usually when their pictures are out of their own hands. Also, most White photographers have no idea how to light Women of Colour well leaving a paler look.

I'm not a big fan, prefer much of earlier work in Destiny's Child, particularly her song on consent, and am not her target demographic, but a lot of things Beyonce's written, spoken about, and many of her other works are so overlooked and she's more targetted than others who do similar (Much like Taylor Swift writes about her relationships in her music and it's 'her way of growing and coping with it', but Rihanna does the same and it's apparently glorifying her abuse).

And Naysa, you can just use the word White or if you need a similar term to the others, European. The term Caucasian was invited by a crazed, racist German scientist who tried to divide the world into the good light skinned people (Caucasians) and the rest (Mongoloids), to couch his racism in scientific terms. Apparently, he didn't know his geography well as the Caucas mountains, mostly in the Armenian Highlands, are mostly populated by People of Colour and using Caucasian to mean White people erases their existence. White people didn't come from there, there is no evidence that the mutation that caused white skin came from that region. Also, if you read your history, most Black people in the States (and other heavily colonized areas) will have White heritage due to the high rate and purposeful rape of Black women.

chibi Thu 21-Feb-13 18:26:33

thank you big spork for saying it wayyyyyy better than i did

BigSpork Thu 21-Feb-13 18:27:17

Also, the band that played at Obama's original inauguration was performing to music - they weren't actually playing their instruments. It's always that way as performing in freezing cold January weather in a big crowd with touchy electronics is always risky. It's still her voice, it was still her singing just as much as it was the band playing. I do not see why it is a big deal other than to make her look bad.

Naysa Thu 21-Feb-13 18:32:34

When did I say that Beyonce doesn't have white heritage? I've already posted that her mum's ethnicity includes european.

And excuse me for not brushing up on my nazi lingustic history before posting. Please forgive me hmm

Naysa Thu 21-Feb-13 18:35:13

Also the picture was taken in natural light.

I'm not disputing that photographs are edited.

The one of beyonce looking very pale, I believe, has not been edited.

I stand by my opinion that she is fairer now than when she first started out.

Boomerwang Thu 21-Feb-13 18:58:05

I've never seen anyone with such white legs, apart from Nicole Kidman and Nicola Roberts. 'time of year' my ass.

BigSpork Thu 21-Feb-13 19:00:37

The scientist is from the late 1700/late 1800s, when the formation of race (rather than ethnicity/nationhood), racism, and racist science was being formulated to excuse slavery and colonizing and white superiority in policy, which still affect us today. Nazis used the term Aryan to mean White (which again, proves lack of knowledge and geography as Aryan covers most of India). I was attempting to inform you of the origin of the term, how out of date the term is and why it harmful, not to put you down.

My skin is noticeably darker than it was ten years ago. I don't tan, use fake tanner or any make-up, and my choice of attire covers all but my hands, neck and face. My hair has also gotten darker. It's just how I've naturally aged as a mixed race woman - my kids find my baby photos where I pass as White to be odd. When I was pregnant and just afterwards I became very pale, and I look far paler in yellow-flash photography than I normally do and most photographers do not know that how paling it is and that differing the colour of the flash dramatically changes the skin tone (most darker skin women look better and less whitewashed in blue flash, red flash can work wonders for others, most flash in normal cameras are slightly yellow which favours and makes skin more White even in daylight).

Surely, more should be focused on the media and society that pushes Women of Colour to be White than to be tearing her a part for fitting into that image (because Women of Colour who haven't don't get the screen time or are only put into subserviant/deviant roles). Her writings on consent and women being able to pick their partners, her lifting up the most multi-racial all female band into Superbowl spotlight - the White American homeland, her latest documentary discussing her marriage and her need for women friends and her openness, these are far more matters for role models and feminism than whether or not she chooses (even if coerced by the media) to appear sexy or to follow White House tradition of having her singing recorded for the big day rather than play live just as all the other main acts have done before her and were never torn apart for. I'm mixed race, I know the boons of passing as White, she'll get more power and media time for it and torn a part for it at the same time - she might as well do what she wants - and she's obviously successful at it - because she'll be fed to the dogs both ways.

chibi Thu 21-Feb-13 19:02:55

ok, despite no evidence whatsoever you believe the photos are not edited

i respectfully disagree, so that is that i guess

the idea that magazines are editing photos (for which they have form) is to me infinitely more plausible than the idea that beyonce is lightening and then darkening and then relightening her skin and again and again, within fairly narrow timescales

but, clearly to you it is not

swooosh Thu 21-Feb-13 19:05:37

Boomerwang ill assume you're talking about her DDs newborn pictures and this is her most recent photo...

Blue Ivy

swooosh Thu 21-Feb-13 19:07:32

Also if you take a look at her and her sister together they are very alike (skin colour)

Don't see what the big deal is? Like I say I've seen her before and she doesn't look as light as EDITED photos do.

PuffPants Thu 21-Feb-13 19:17:08

She strikes me as a narcissist.

Did you know she is the first woman in the western world to give birth? And that when he became the father of a daughter, her DH decided to stop calling women bitches and whores in his "songs". What a stand up guy.

As a white woman I look forward to the day when skin colour is no longer an issue. I have noticed over the years that lighter skinned people of colour were treated differently in the media, better even that those with darker skin. And yet, some of the most heartbreakingly beautiful women I have ever seen have been quite dark. I am raising my DCs to see beyond colour and consider people as the individuals they are.

However, Beyonce's music is not to my taste, prefer metal.

colleysmill Thu 21-Feb-13 20:22:52

I'm probably an advertisers nightmare but I just didn't understand the advert. I posted on pg 1 that I had no idea what it was advertising and until this thread no idea that Beyonce was touring! I didn't even realise it was Beyonce until dh pointed it out.

But then perfume adverts are also a mystery to me too - very fancy adverts where the message is not crystal, in your face clear tend to pass me by or leave me a bit befuddled (like this ad!)

BigSpork Thu 21-Feb-13 20:40:05

But my skin colour is part of who I am as an individual. It affects my entire reality and how the world relates to me. If you don't see skin colour, you'll miss the extra burdens placed by it and the racist and colourist problems with the system get overlooked.

No one tells their kids we need to see beyond sex, to not see men and women but people, we tell them that women can do anything and look for role models, women they can identify with, and media that represents women well regardless if our children are boys or girls. We recognise there are extra issues that women face and discuss those issues appropriately with them hopefully. The same should be done for race and colour - actively talking about how we can do anything, we need more representation - both for children of colour and for white children, so that people can see it in action (people let their guard down more around fiction than non-fiction, fictional representation matters a lot) and real recognition of the problems face by People of Colour due to colonization and the legacy of white supremacy. Even simple things like finding dolls, colouring books, stickers, media with someone that looks like you is another level of microaggravation (I've had to import all of the above at one point or another to get access them, I spent hours the other day trying to find a doll for my daughter after hearing her pine once again for blonde hair) to the larger issues of media literacy. We show how pictures make women look thinner/a level of perfection beyond reach, it should also show how they make Women of Colour lighter and why that is. We need to confront it, not see beyond it, if it's ever going to be changed and made better.

FakePlasticLobsters Thu 21-Feb-13 20:44:42

That advert is for her tour?

I thought she had replaced Barbara Windsor as the Jackpot Joy Queen. I really did!

BigSpork I can see what you're saying and I really appreciate your comments, which are helping me understand these issues a little better. And perhaps I didn't put my comments the best way, but my intentions are definitely honourable, I just want society to get to the point where, I guess, we are able to interact with dignity and not trying to judge from a "white" standard, which sadly is evident all over the place. And that's not probably the best way of saying it either but at the moment I can't think of the words I want and I especially want to avoid words that might come out as being patronising when I really don't intend that.

Jux Thu 21-Feb-13 21:02:01

We think it's one of the funniest things on tv, as we all (if we're actually seeing the ads, rather than making tea/having wee etc) guess it's another twatty car ad or a pretentious perfume ad. We never remember it's Beyonce. Then, after we'd seen it the first time, the only one of us who knew who she was was dd, who said "yeah, well, she's rubbish anyway!".

countrykitten Thu 21-Feb-13 21:06:05

simplesusan 'sluttish' and 'slut' both appear in your post. I hope you are ashamed. Anything you had to say of any note is completely negated by your use of these words imo. Vile.

carlajean Thu 21-Feb-13 21:27:25

fakeplasticlobsters love the Barbara Windsor comment. I was wondering what she reminded me of. I also think simplesusan was spot on.

FakePlasticLobsters Thu 21-Feb-13 22:18:35


Boomerwang Thu 21-Feb-13 22:42:06

I think the ad was fine. She's a performer and sex sells, like it or not. She's sexy and she knows it, and flaunting the fact is a way to make money. I don't think she's sluttish at all. She's smart, like Madonna, Kylie and that bloody Jordan woman.

forehead Thu 21-Feb-13 23:05:28

Beyonce is a beautiful black woman, who married a successfful
black man. They also happen to be friends with the Obamas.
I am a white woman and get really annoyed with people who assume that Beyonce is bleaching her skin to 'look white'.
However, this same accusation is not levelled at white woman who tan their skin(they are not accused of trying to look black)
Beyonce is a light skinned BLACK women, who appears to be proud of her ancestry.Black women come in all shades, and you will find some black women that are lighter than mixed race women.

justasecond Thu 21-Feb-13 23:30:45

grin fakeplasticlobsters
She is undoubtedly beautiful but for some reason she sets my teeth on edge.

maddening Thu 21-Feb-13 23:45:57

But isn't the face makeup part of a v stylised costume - if it were a white woman she would have an obviously whiter complexion as that was the elizabethan style that this is based on?

If she has her normal skin colour in rl then isn't it just stylised makeup rather than a skin bleaching issue?

forehead Thu 21-Feb-13 23:58:45

Exactly maddening. That is what i thought.

AmberLeaf Fri 22-Feb-13 01:01:50

Boomerwang, I take it you havent seen many black babies then? if you think her baby has no black features and seems odd to have straight hair? straight here is not uncommon in black babies especially those who have a mixed parentage.

As for bleaching, Beyonces Mum has a racially mixed background, Beyonces is a light skinned black woman and her varying skin tones are nothing unusual IME.

Also I agree with much of what renlo says.

Im not a huge fan of Beyonce and I think she models her 'act' a lot of Tina Turner.

Re that ad, as others have said, the pale make up goes with the look she was using.

AmberLeaf Fri 22-Feb-13 01:02:46

'scuse typos.

swooosh Fri 22-Feb-13 06:59:23

Amber, she admittedly loves Tina. She says she has two Tina's in her life 'her mother, and Turner' grin

AmberLeaf Fri 22-Feb-13 09:31:30

It shows! grin

SoleSource Fri 22-Feb-13 12:19:19

DS is dual heritage. White and Black. DS is darker skinned than Blue Ivy. Skin tones change because of body heat too. He is very handsome my boy.

MrsBucketxx Fri 22-Feb-13 14:11:11

I just think at times her make up colour is wrong and makes her look lighter than she is.

what she sees in jz ill never know, balk

Boomerwang Fri 22-Feb-13 14:31:09

The first picture of the kid I saw on the same news website that was linked far upthread and he didn't at all look black, but the second picture which was linked looked far different.

KatyPeril Fri 22-Feb-13 14:56:57

I'm not a fan of her, or her music. I think she's a much better role model than Rihanna though.

AmberLeaf Fri 22-Feb-13 15:43:00

Boomerwang that is because black babies tend to be born quite fair skinned and get darker as they get older, same with the hair, it is often straight then curls up later.

Peevish Fri 22-Feb-13 15:57:53

I've no positive or negative feelings about her in general, other than wondering how she gets her thighs so shiny, but this ad, for some reason, is really irritating - I think it's the stately walk with the courtiers and then that tip backwards-slide move. There's something terribly naff about it. It looks like someone did a bad mash-up between a Beyonce video and a National Trust property ad.

And agree with whoever said the DJ is terrifying.

Also, the Mrs Carter Tour. Oh, yuck.

BigAudioDynamite Fri 22-Feb-13 16:00:19

I agree with forehead..a lot, maybe most?, black Americans have mixed ancestory if you take it back to slavery.

A lot of 'black' people are lighter skinned than someone you would consider mixed race.

I think Beyonce is talented. Not to my tastes, but I'm not her target audience. Dd likes her

renlo Fri 22-Feb-13 17:34:24

DD1 was born very pale with straight jet black hair. So was my niece who also happens to have blue eyes. It happens; given the complex gene pool of most afro-Caribbeans and African -Americans, its hardly surprising.

I am looking at DD1 now and she is noticeably paler now, compared to her nursery photo taken at the end of July last year. I hope those of you arguing that Beyonce is sometimes paler aren't going to be suggesting that I bleach my 5 year old's skinhmm

Remotecontrolduck Fri 22-Feb-13 18:08:23

She is very beautiful, but she's not quite what everyone makes her out to be. She needs to sing a bit more on stage because she can sing, instead of strutting around all the time. I wouldn't say she's supremely talented really.

Boomerwang Fri 22-Feb-13 22:04:27

I didn't know that Amberleaf thank you for telling me.

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