AIBU to think that she might be being deliberately difficult about this?

(55 Posts)
100DaysofSummer Wed 20-Feb-13 16:02:38

Not too sure how to explain this well.

Basically as a child we had a children's Bible in the house, this was 30+ years ago, a beautiful big thick hardback book with beautiful detailed illustrations, it had belonged to my older db and dsis but I would spend hours reading it and looking at the pictures long after they'd left home.

My ds goes to Catholic school and I decided to ask my dm and df if I could borrow the book to read to ds to help with his learning. They didn't know where it had gone but thought db or dsis may have had it. I text dsis asking if she had 'that children's bible we all had'. She did but told me 'it was hers and dbs and why was I asking'. I explained I'd like to borrow it for ds to read. It does actually mean a lot to me I've been searching for a vintage copy on ebay but would love to just look at that one again. She said it was in the loft somewhere and it wouldn't be quick find as she was doing x, y, z over the next few weeks but that I could get children's bible anywhere. I know that but it's not the same, I can still remember the smell of that book, it really was beautiful.

Anyway, it probably seems like no big deal, but I'm wondering if she's being deliberately unhelpful. It's the way she corrected me to say it was 'hers and dbs'. The dynamics of our family are a bit odd. Dsis and Db are over 10 years older than me, dsis moved out of home when I was 5 or 6 and db ws always out at work so I was almost like an only child. We all had a crap upbringing but their's was considerably worse in some ways. However my childhood was no bed of roses to the point that I've needed counselling as an adult.

Dsis also had a DC when I was 8 or 9 and moved back into home, I loved my d nephew but we almost had a brother sister relationship and I don't think I was too hot on sharing with him. She really resents me for this and loves to remind me of things I said or did when he was little, like making him move out of 'my' chair or wanting to put the star on top of the Christmas tree which I admit I was probably being a brat, but I was at most a young teen. She doesn't like to remember how she would purposely get him to hit and kick me when he was a toddler to wind me up, and how I gave up my bed and room for them to move back in for months on various occasions and slept on cushions on the floor.

There's loads of things that have gone on I'd need to write a book and might end up drip feeding.

MrsKeithRichards Wed 20-Feb-13 16:06:47

Sounds like there's a lot more going on than just the book but I don't think she's being that difficult to be honest.

I know you're saying the book means a lot to you but it is just a book, you're connecting happy memories to it.

Why not get another Children's Bible and make it special for you and your own children? Doesn't have to be fancy, vintage or expensive (just like the one you're wanting back probably wasn't) but you can share it together and it will be just yours.

I'd get a new bible.

ParsleyTheLioness Wed 20-Feb-13 16:07:47

It's possible...but I don't think there is very much you can do if she doesn't come up with it. Accelerating your request risks further family issues. I realise it must be frustrating.

DeepRedBetty Wed 20-Feb-13 16:08:53

It's possible that the Bible was originally given to your two elder siblings in a rather special way before you were born which they remember and obviously you don't. I think you're probably right, she doesn't want to hand it over - she may be worried that it'll get damaged, or she may just be being precious.

Practically speaking, wouldn't it be nicer to get your ds a bible that is definitely his own and won't get mixed up with complicated old family history?

Hassled Wed 20-Feb-13 16:09:45

You obviously had a difficult and complicated relationship and there are a whole heap of issues which bother you - completely understandable. You can address them through counselling - but that won't help your DSis address them, IYSWIM. She doesn't want to give you the bible, for whatever complicated reasons - and it's hers to give or not to give. Pursue the Ebay option (or maybe a site like Abe's Books?) and leave it be. It sounds like one of those situations which will only end up with more upset.

squeakytoy Wed 20-Feb-13 16:10:34

I think the ideal solution would be for you to forget this bible, and buy another that will be in your family and for you to pass down to your kids.

ENormaSnob Wed 20-Feb-13 16:12:39

I don't think she's being purposefully difficult tbh.

Finding a book in the loft just wouldn't be on my priority list either.

I reckon there is some resentment though with her pointing out it wasn't yours anyway.

MariusEarlobe Wed 20-Feb-13 16:13:00

I have had something similar, i was asked for the item and refused but more because i thought i wouldn't get it back as they had been trying to get it previously for themselves.

Id get a new bible and make it your and ds special book.

HeathRobinson Wed 20-Feb-13 16:13:15

Maybe she's trying to say no, nicely?

100DaysofSummer Wed 20-Feb-13 16:13:42

You're probably right MrsKeithRichards I won't pester her about it. And I know I could get another and it would possibly be as special to ds in years to come.

I'm just being sentimental it seems ashame for it to be collecting dust in a loft when we could be using it and I'd be happy to give it back if she wishes to keep it.

I am just frustrated, I asked for some photos about a year ago, they're of ds dad who he doesn't see. I have no photos and wanted to put some away for ds if he ever asks questions, she siad that she would but never has.

DeWe Wed 20-Feb-13 16:15:57

I don't think you're being unreasonable to ask, but if the book is that precious then I don't think it's unreasonable for her not to want to lend it is it is theirs.

I'd also say that books that we thought were magically beautiful 30+ years ago are usually looked on as being rather sparce in illustrations by todays children. I remember showing dd1 a book I had lovely memories of, and she really couldn't get over that the illustrations were green and yellow only!

If the book is hard/expensive to replace then I do have sympathy for her not wanting to lend it. Books are very easy to damage, I have certain books that I would be very reluctant to lend to even the most careful person because I know if it was damaged we would struggle to replace.
Also there might be a feeling (if it's one her ds loved too) that she wants to save it for their grandchildren. People on here always say don't lend anything you're not happy to lose. She may not want the possibility of losing it-and if you're saying it's precious to you, she may see you trying to get your hands on it and not returning it, rather than you saying you'll be careful because it's precious.

DeepRedBetty Wed 20-Feb-13 16:18:31

Again she may want to hold onto the photos, unless they are photos which are specifically of him - in which case why would she want to keep them? Offer to bring them back after you've made copies if they're snaps which show lots of people type ones.

100DaysofSummer Wed 20-Feb-13 16:20:36

I see what you are saying, I guess it isn't 'mine'. But I can't imagine being like that about anything, I see us as all being equal. But I know that she doesn't. And I am trustworthy and do look after things very well, it's also very rare that I ask for anything.

I think I just wonder why she resents me so much, we get on ok but sometimes it all comes out. About 15 years ago I wanted to go for as job in a petrol station while I was at college, dsis didn't want me to as she thought it would be dangerous, she ended up screaming at me that I didn't have a clue about life, she wishes I was dead and all the family wish I was dead, they'd all been a lot happier before I was born.

I just can't understand why she hates me for things I did when I was a child. I know my db and dsis had a crap upbringing and as I came along later a lot had changed, but my life really wasn't wonderful.

100DaysofSummer Wed 20-Feb-13 16:23:31

DeepRed I just wanted a couple of photo of him alone. They're from a party I don't think that the specific ones of him are of any sentimental value to her at all infact she hates him. Her ds also doesn't see his real dad and she has a collection of photos which is why I think she would understand why I'd want a couple of photos.

RedToothBrush Wed 20-Feb-13 16:28:33

One thing to remember: she is allowed to say no.

Whether she is being deliberately difficult or not is, to an extent, beside the point.

DeWe Wed 20-Feb-13 16:29:17

You all being equal doen't mean you all own everything equally. If the book is bers and db then you haven't equal "rights" over it.

If your dp life had moved on and things were better for you she may well resent things that you had, they they had no chance of having. I know my db, who was only 4 years younger than me had a lot of things that me and dsis wouldn't have bothered dreaming about because we know that there was no chance of having.
It wasn't just more money, but also different circumstances, not having a younger one around and things like that. Often he got things we'd begged for and been refused, and he wasn't even interested in.

Also db had an attitude that everything was his because he had it last, and sometimes he didn't realise it had been one of ours first and was most put out to find one of us had a claim on something he thought was exclusively his.

MariusEarlobe Wed 20-Feb-13 16:32:47

Do you think she's got rid of the photo if she hates him that much.

PootlePosyPerkin Wed 20-Feb-13 16:40:32

It does sound like their is more to this than just a bible BUT taken on face value, it isn't actually your bible is it? It probably does belong to your Sis & Bro and therefore I would buy a new bible for your own DS and move on.

I am the youngest child too, and there are a few things that I remember fondly being at home or looking at as a child, but I know they are not mine and therefore it is only right that my siblings have them now (slightly different as both of our parents have died so everything has been divided up, as it were). There were also other items that belonged to none of us specifically - they were either our parents' or given to us "children" as a whole, which would be more of a grey area.

Personally, I wouldn't consider a book worthy of the aggro.

100DaysofSummer Wed 20-Feb-13 16:41:23

Dewe I do understand what you are saying honestly. This is why though I thought I might end up drip feeding but didn't want a super long op.

I guess what I mean about us all being equal isn't that I should ge to have everything, I certainly don't think that. I would have liked to have borrowed it. I can't imagine saying no to such a request, I have given a lot of things to my dnephew.

I also really need to stress how my life was no bed of roses, in some ways I suppose my life was better, we had a bit more money, but we were all verbally and physically abused. We all had to live with having an alcoholic df who's drinking was worse during my childhood. And in fact some ways db and dsis were at an advantage, at least they had eachother, I was on my own in it all. I really didn't have many nice things, dm and df would get me outfits for a school party and return it to the shop after I'd worn it because they couldn't afford to buy it, the rest of my clothes were hand me downs. Dsis and Db were at least taken out by our grandparents and my parents. By the time I came along both of my parents were depressed and never really left the house aside from to go to the shops and take me to school. I also had to deal with the fallout of dsis leaving home whern she was 16 and getting pregnant, at least she was out of it, I was still living in it all. I really was at no huge advantage.

If she really doesn't want to borrow the Bible as it's important to her I would accept that, I'm not one to kick off about anything.

Hesterton Wed 20-Feb-13 16:44:03

This isn't about the bible.

It's about resentment, rivalry, jealousy, sharing, long-ago emotional pain and a hundred other things, but it isn't about the Bible.

I would let the bible thing drop and find other ways to reach out to you sister.

amothersplaceisinthewrong Wed 20-Feb-13 16:44:56

Get your own bible that your child can treasure in the future. And you need to move on from your childhood and let that go too, you can't change it.

100DaysofSummer Wed 20-Feb-13 16:47:39

Pootle no it's not mine, although I don't really feel like that about things, in terms of who they belong to, not childhood things. Anything that came from the house I see as belonging to the family. And I'd never cause a fuss over keeping something, but would have liked to see it again and borrow it.

But that is perhaps because I didn't really own anything special myself, most of my things were passed down such as the Bible. Db and Dsis have special teddies and things from grandparents who had died by the time I was born, also from my gran who never met me until 10 years ago as my dm had stopped speaking to her before I was born. So I don't see things as being 'theirs' or 'mine'.

Thanks for all the replies though, I won't pester her or anything about it I'll leave it at that now. I will read any replies and reply later, thanks!

BonzoDooDah Wed 20-Feb-13 16:51:29

go on www.abebooks.co.uk where they have way more used books than ebay - I'm sure you'll find what you need there.

Jux Wed 20-Feb-13 16:52:25

I think you're actually better off with her not lending it to you. What if your ds were to love it as much as you? You'd have to give it back, at some point, which could upset him quite a lot.

100DaysofSummer Wed 20-Feb-13 16:53:11

You're right Hesterton we have discussed things but I think the problem is dsis moved out when I was 5 or 6 and didn't often see a lot of what went on. She just saw me with my own room, sat in front of the tv with a claim on a chair eating chocolate. But it really was about all I did have.

MariusEarlobe Wed 20-Feb-13 16:56:22

My aunt grew up in a similar situation, there's around 12 years between oldest and youngest, by the time the littlest was six both oldest ones were working (14/16) full time and they had four wages coming into the house.

Their mum was abusive and they all had a bad time but the older ones took a lot of blame for things the younger one had done and the younger one did have it easier, there's a lot of resentment and upset still and slightest thing tips them over edge.

Astley Wed 20-Feb-13 17:02:55

Maybe the whole 'the bible we all had as children' when you knew perfectly well it belonged to them put her back up? I sounded like you were trying to say it was partly yours and she is jus clarifying that it wasn't.

1charlie1 Wed 20-Feb-13 17:07:15

I am sorry, this is a painful situation. In your DSis' shoes, I would be reluctant to lend a treasured 'family' book which was I had in my possession (and which I believed was 'mine'), as I would be not so much concerned at it being damaged as simply never getting it back. The bible in question probably does belong to your sister more than it does to you - as another poster suggests, she may even have a specific memory of it being given to her and her brother before you were born. My DB has 'borrowed' old photos, recordings of us as kids etc from mum and dad, and I know I will never now regain access to them without considerable effort on my part.

From my own DMs perspective, she had a treasured book of adventure stories which 'she' gave to her DF two months after she was born. It says 'To dear daddy, Merry Christmas from mummy and [my DM]'. My mother was firstborn of 5, she treasured the book all her childhood, and one of her younger sisters now has it planted firmly on her bookshelf. When my mother realised it was gone from my GMs, and asked for it, her sister said 'Absolutely not.'

Buy your son a lovely childrens' bible all of his own.

100DaysofSummer Wed 20-Feb-13 17:17:22

I'm quite surprised that people have an ownership attitude when it comes to siblings. Just to add.I didn't think of it ad belonging to anyone in particular, it had always been in the house and dm and df couldn't remembet who it had initially been bought for when I asked if they still had it. Although I do think it probably.was bought for them. I asked in terms of we all read it and had access to it as it lived in my parents bedroom.

MariusEarlobe Wed 20-Feb-13 20:22:08

"although I don't really feel like that about things, in terms of who they belong to, not childhood things. Anything that came from the house I see as belonging to the family"

Is that a usual reaction though?

My parents still live in the home i was born in, there are things that belong to me there, things that belong to them, things that belong to my dd and siblings. They belong to the individuals in the house. There are things bought for christenings and birthdays and Christmas or just given by relatives or just bought with pocket money or on days out, they belong to the people they were given to not the family.

I'm not having a go by the way, its a genuine question to all not just op.

Jux Wed 20-Feb-13 20:33:45

An aunt gave my brother the Sgt Pepper album. Though we all listened to it, and enjoyed it, and had free access to it, it belonged to my brother.

It would never have occurred to any of us that we had any right to it, that it belonged to anyone other than my brother.

Perhaps your idea that whatever is in the family home is up for grabs, is what lies behind your sister's refusal to lend your the Bible?

nickelbabe Wed 20-Feb-13 20:35:20

it sounds like a really awful situation to be in.

my own tuppence worth.
forget about that Bible. your sis obviously resents you for reasons of her own making, and she's trying to make this a bigger issue. i'd guess that she thinks you took everything by being born and you're not getting them too!
even betterthat you are attached to this book.

I don't say it lightly because I'm obsessed with books and regularly adopt books that have been abandoned by their owners (ie byy 2nd hand)

I think you should buy your family a bible. one that your children can call their own one day. it'll mean so much more to them because it's your special book. and it'll mean.more to you because it will have your family's memories to it.

Cubtrouble Wed 20-Feb-13 20:41:58

I have seen somewhere recently an amazing childrens bible with beautiful colour illustrations and gold embossed cover, (I am not religious in the slightest but I wanted to get it for my baby ds and didn't have my purse with me)

For some reason families are strange, we have a similar thing over a poxy plastic jeep lol but in my opinion these things are not worth arguing/stressing and falling out over. See if you can find an amazing bible and make memories together for your children. That will mean more to them than one they have to give back later.

If I can find said copy of amazing bible I saw I shall post a link

DeepRedBetty Wed 20-Feb-13 20:44:58

As you have already said OP there's a lot of unresolved crap in your relationship with your siblings, you did warn us!

Re those photos, if you really want them and your sister is the only source you're going to have to go round to get them; her getting the abdabs at you when you wanted a job at the petrol station was a long time ago and hopefully she's grown up a bit.

Hold fast to the most important thing, none of this is your fault, and I doubt that it's her or your dbs fault either. Focus on making your own family a success. <sorry to sound like a self help manual blush>

DeWe Wed 20-Feb-13 21:40:12

I think things you are given as children do belong to the child they are given to, not their siblings. Otherwise the first one to have children would claim all the treaured things saved. If it had been your mums then you would (to my mind) have equal claim (unless she'd given it especially to one) but if it was given to your sister then you have no claim on it. Hope that makes sense?

It wasn't Bible Stories by David Kossoff was it? About A4 size and an inch thick? That was one we loved as children. I may have a spare copy around though, as my dm said she'd lost it, and I bought her a spare copy, and I think (though I might be wrong) she then found it.

Cubtrouble Wed 20-Feb-13 22:22:42

I found the bible link I was talking about.

Ad it's not as much as I remember!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Illustrated-Childrens-Barnes-Leatherbound-Classics/dp/1435141911/ref=sr_1_22?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361398838&sr=1-22

It's got gold edge paper and was lovely.

Jux Wed 20-Feb-13 22:42:30

This one any good?

100DaysofSummer Thu 21-Feb-13 07:50:21

Thanks for all the replies and links I have been reflecting on what everyone has said and taking it on board. And do realise that I have no rights to the Bible and that it probably isn't a good idea to borrow it anyway as ds may get attached to it. It is more my own attachment to the Bible than being practical. The Bible was The Golden Children's Bible 1965.

As for regard the relationship with my family, I really don't think that anything in the family home is up for grabs, I am perhaps not explaning myself very well.

When I initially enquired about the Bible I didn't realise it belonged to DB amd Dsis, I knew somewhere in ther back of my mind it probably did due to our ages, but even DM and DF couldn't remember who's it was or even if she had given it away to a cousin. My DB didn't know what had happened to it and it was only on asing Dsis that I was corrected and told it was theirs. My only memory of it was reading it as a child and it being in the house, I was probably not born when it was given to them. From my perspective nothing belonged to me as everything I had was passed down from my siblings and I have taken absolutely nothing from my parents home wheareas DB and Dsis have taken photos, books etc.

What is hurtful however is that Dsis uses any opportunity to stick the knife in about my meer existence and have one up so to speak. I know that if the Bible had been in DBs possession he would have absolutely no issue with me borrowing it, or seeing it as a shared book that we all used as he simply doesn't hold the same resentment towards me.

There are just so many issues within my family, we are all a bit messed up by our upbringing in different ways. Dsis was always resentful to me for having the 'better life', she left home at 16 and I think she felt as though she wasn't part of the family. She also didn't speak to my DF for about 6 years at one time and she doesn't go round for visits now only pops in on occasion. What she doesn't realise is that we wern't all having a lovely time while she was gone, it was horrible at home. I remember the time she stopped speaking to DF, she'd come to visit and she'd been beeping her horn outside which resulted Dsis and DF having a huge row in the stairs and her storming out. After she'd gone home though we were still all there, and that day DB and I returned home from work to my DF shouting and screaming that he's going to get this family in order, I was on my phone as I walked in and he took it off my and smashed it up the wall.

She thinks people are conspiring against her, if she texts me and I don't text back say my phones in another room she rings DM to see where I am as she thinks I'm purposely ignoring her. If there's some news and she isn't the first to hear she accuses everyone of leaving her out. But it really isn't like that. My DM and DF never visit or ring any of us, we always have to be the ones to ring them and visit them but she will create a big drama over how she's being left out, but we're all left out. I'm the only person out of our entire family who went to her wedding. I actually think my DB suffered the most out of the 3 of us.

I know it all runs far deeper than an old Bible.

100DaysofSummer Thu 21-Feb-13 07:59:34

her getting the abdabs at you when you wanted a job at the petrol station was a long time ago and hopefully she's grown up a bit

Unfortunately nothing has changed. that was 10 or more years ago, I was supposed to be taking my Dnephew on holiday a few years ago, and unfortunately due to problems with my pregnancy at the time I had to cancel, I got all the money back off the insurance and promised to rebook and take him once baby was born, but she kicked off, screaming at me down the phone what was I even thinking of getting pregnant with this booked, she hoped me and 'it' would be bery happy together, she didn't speak to me for about a year and borrowed £££ from my DB so that she could take Dnephew on holiday.

When she had her wedding DB couldn't go as their baby was due at the same time and the wedding was miles away, she was disgusted that they'd planned a baby knowing she was getting married, I'm the only one who went to the wedding but she still hates me.

NellysKnickers Thu 21-Feb-13 08:05:11

Just buy a new one. That one was never yours in the first place. Accept it and move on, I don't mean to be harsh but I feel for your dsis having been in a similar situation.

NellysKnickers Thu 21-Feb-13 08:06:31

Whoops sorry, see the thread has moved on. Just ignore me grin

100DaysofSummer Thu 21-Feb-13 08:07:12

And the things is, it's possible thaat she's not even being difficult about the Bible at all. Now that she's corrected me about who it belongs to she might be happy to lend it to me. She knows I'm responsible and look after things, and she knows I would give it back.

But my own resentment is coming out about her resentment. But I certainly won't say anything I'm not opening a can of worms. I'm actually really glad that she's got it and it isn't in the tip or given to a cousin.

100DaysofSummer Thu 21-Feb-13 08:11:53

Just buy a new one. That one was never yours in the first place. Accept it and move on, I don't mean to be harsh but I feel for your dsis having been in a similar situation

I did think I might get mostly replies like this which is why I thought I may end up drip feeding, but didn't want to post my whole life on the op just to prove that Dsis can be difficult!

I honestly do understand that it's not mine even though it may have felt so as I don't remember it been given. And I really am not grabby, in fact I can only imagine when my Dps pass away I will probably take nothing as everything will belong to and mean more to DB and Dsis as they had a whole 10 years or so before I existed. And I won't say anything because I am not confontational.

Delayingtactic Thu 21-Feb-13 08:19:37

Abe books have loads of them if you want smile

100DaysofSummer Thu 21-Feb-13 08:24:02

I definitely will get a copy, thanks x

imnotmymum Thu 21-Feb-13 08:28:45

I know this seems harsh but to move forward you need to let go of the past. I understand that your childhood was not great but you have your own family now and IMO I would let it go and make memories of your own with your family. Good luck!

Longdistance Thu 21-Feb-13 08:29:34

Next time she needs a favour, just don't oblige <immature emoticon>

100DaysofSummer Thu 21-Feb-13 08:53:38

Thanks imnotmymum, not harsh just true, despite me having a moan about dsis typing this thread has ultimately made me put things in perspective, the bible is not mine and whether she's a pain in the arse or I'm a pain in the arse would take years of family counselling to resolve, we all have resentment sadly over different things, but the book is hers and she's the right to say no or lend it to me at het leisure. But I know logically I can choose another special Bible for ds.

DeepRedBetty Thu 21-Feb-13 09:00:59

Okay, I take it back. She hasn't remotely grown up a bit has she? grin That story should be in the Bridezilla's thread collection!

Your own family is the most important thing in all this, that is you and your son. Good luck x

100DaysofSummer Thu 21-Feb-13 09:25:39

That was the least of it about the wedding. There were the
5 hen dos that had to turn into 3 because nobody cared. She's never forgiven me for saying I might not be able to attend het spa weekend due to funds, I did go but only after I was accused of spending all my money on designer clothes, which I don't, and prioritizing my ds Clarkes shoes. And I endured the weekend being digged at about how I nearly didn't come. Even though I never nearly didn't come I just suggested at the beginning I might have to look at money. Then there was the week long wedding which meant we all had to book hotels to attend the rehearsals. She made a dig at my do while she was standing at the altar, we saw her mouth to her dh, why the Fuck is he wearing a grey shirt. Apparently I wasn't a good bridesmaid. So of course this is the perfect revenge for me being such a crap sister.

Morloth Thu 21-Feb-13 10:16:43

It sounds like she is carrying a lot of resentment and hurt and is directing it at the wrong person.

Morloth Thu 21-Feb-13 10:18:28

Is having her in your life making it better or worse?

Jux Thu 21-Feb-13 14:10:31

It does sound like you'd have a happier time if you just kept in touch with your brother and left her and her resentment to stew together.

100DaysofSummer Thu 21-Feb-13 15:20:13

Quite possibly worse, we do have our moments though.

We tend to just stick to birthdays, Xmas and special occasions.

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