To be thoroughly pissed off about extra additions to ski holiday and to get my clip board out?

(139 Posts)
Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 09:01:24

Will try to keep this short. We are lucky enough to be going skiing for 6 days next week. We live in France and will drive to resort, we have our own gear so no ski hire. We are very very lucky in that an acquaintance gives us mates rates on an apartment (half the normal price). All this means that we can afford to go skiing. We still save up for this though in order to pay for our lift passes and lessons for the children - it is a special treat.

DH has invited a friend and his girlfriend to join us for 3 out of the 6 days (he checked with me first and I was perfectly happy with the idea as it is fun to do this sort of thing with other people). They were pleased to come along. However it now turns out that they will be bringing two children with them (the girlfriend's from a previous relationship), when we invited them, the understanding was that the children were with their father that week.

I am really not keen on this happening at all. It means the apartment will be full to bursting (someone will be sleeping on pull out sofa in living room, the only small bedroom will need to have 4 people in it and two people will have to sleep in bunks in the hall). French ski apartments are tiny and there is never enough space to store/dry ski things, and there will be only one combined shower-room with the toilet in it for 8 people. We are self-catering so going to have to organise meals for 4 adults and 4 children around a table that only sits 6 at a squeeze.

Also the two children who now appear to be coming are of the noisy, jump on sofas, talk back to their mum (and others) type. Last time we spent time with them she got pretty frazzled. I feel sorry for them all, she is exhausted, she works full time and a single mum with young children who are obviously finding the upheaval of their parents divorce really hard. That doesn't mean I want to spend 3 days squeezed into a small apartment/going skiing with them though. Even worse, the mum is a beginner skier so I'm not too sure who is going to be in charge of her kids on the slopes as they ski better than she does and I can't see them being content to keep their mum happy on green runs.

AIBU to want to set some ground rules with everybody before we go? Such as each family is responsible for their kids and only their own and can we please not have the blokes off doing the black runs whilst the mums take kids to the toilet/sort lunch for them/sort out another change of dry gloves/drop them off and pick them up from lessons, etc? I also want us to have some idea of what we are going to eat in the evening and to have discussed who is sleeping where before we arrive. Really, I would prefer this not to be happening like this but we are just going to have to get on with it now.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 20-Feb-13 09:03:53

Why are you going to have to get on with it now? Dd they ask you and you said yes? Or have they just told you they're now coming?

If its the latter ring them up and say no, that the invite was just for them and you don't want the appt been too full.

Primrose123 Wed 20-Feb-13 09:06:21

I think I would just tell them that there is only room for 6 in the apartment. Say there was a mix-up and you didn't realise there would be 4 of them.

This is your holiday. Do you really want to ruin it with badly behaved kids in a small space?

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 09:06:34

I would be unhappy about the unexpected appearance of the two children.

Don't let your holiday be spoilt by this and tell the friend the invitation didn't extend to the children. If they are arsey , so be it.

It's not your problem, sort it now !

meditrina Wed 20-Feb-13 09:07:03

I think that you need to have DH ring his friend and apologise for any misunderstanding, but the invitation was for the adults only as the apartment sleeps only 6.

beachyhead Wed 20-Feb-13 09:07:48

Wow, I'm amazed you didn't just say, how's that going to work? The apartment only sleeps 6.

Also how is your friend, who is doing you a favour with mates rates, going to feel about sofa jumping, noisy kids?

If it has to go ahead, then call her with very specific meal planning, ie, you do spaghetti Bol on Monday for 8, I'll do whatever on Tuesday.

Good luck......

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 09:07:49

Also , it's not your apartment, would the owner want it to be overfull, insurance purposes and all that?

whois Wed 20-Feb-13 09:08:01

I don't see the problem.

"Oh, when we invited you we though it would just be the two of you. We don't have space for four of you. If the children can go to their dads then of course you two are still welcome but I understand if you can't come anymore. Sorry for the misunderstanding."

whois Wed 20-Feb-13 09:09:17

But OP you are being U for pointing out how worthy and good and not at all rich you are and how you absolutely have to save and that this is a treat and you can only go because of mates rates.

No relevant. No one cares if you can afford to go skiing or not!

whattodoo Wed 20-Feb-13 09:14:43

Surely you just say "no, that isn't possible, the apartment only sleeps six"?

Hissy Wed 20-Feb-13 09:14:51

Her kids bouncing on the sofa may mean that your mates rates are no longer available in future.

You have to be clear with them that there is no room for 8, and therefore she'll have to make other arrangements for the DC for those 3 days.

It's not your apt, you can't decide to overfill it. Tell her that the owner stated that it was not possible if you have to.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 09:14:59

I think there has been a misunderstanding of some sort along the way - I suspect there has been a change over which holiday week the children are spending with which parent and our friends thought that we were aware of that.

All of this has been done through DH so I'm not too sure of the ins and outs. So they didn't ask us as such, they have obviously assumed that we knew they had the kids that week and were ok with that. There is definitely a lack of communication on both sides - I suspect this is because it is the two men who organised this and one is not a father and my DH doesn't have an issue with the extra children coming really. It is me who is bothered.

The children have been told they are coming and are excited, I think it would be really mean to change that now - especially as I don't really know how clear the initial organisation has been. As I say, we invited them at a time they would normally have been with their dad - I take that as read that we therefore didn't include the children, also the invitation was 'friend and your girlfriend' not 'all of you'.

Aaah, it is just a mess but not through anybody being really imposing or unreasonable.

Hissy Wed 20-Feb-13 09:16:06

Are there B&Bs they could check into instead?

Hissy Wed 20-Feb-13 09:17:49

There needs to be a 'there seems to have been a misunderstanding somewhere' conversation.


Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 20-Feb-13 09:19:20

whois hmm

I think the OP is just making the point that this is a big treat for them, and so all the more reason to not want it ruined by other people's kids.

OP - I would get your DH to tell them that they can't come if they are bringing the kids, because there is no space.

If the other Mum is a beginner then you are going to end up doing no end of the childcare and so on, because she will be too busy spending an hour doing up her boots!

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 09:19:24

Apartment officially sleeps 8. French ski apartments always advertise and are insured for their maximum capacity. An apartment that sleeps 8 will be great for 4, OK for 6 and a squeeze for 8. Also our friend who is coming is also friends with the owner of the apartment - the owner will have no issue with them coming.

I think as the only Brit, I will probably be the only person who doesn't want to do the squeeze - French people are used to doing communal squeezed holidays like this.

Hissy Wed 20-Feb-13 09:19:52

It may not change the fact that you are going to have them, but it needs to be solidly planned in advance ANYWAY.

She should have double checked, and your H should have spoken to you about it, the minute he realised it was not just friend and GF.

Linoleic Wed 20-Feb-13 09:23:32

Do they know that the apartment 'officially' is for 8 people? Can you say the insurance only covers 6?

Trifle Wed 20-Feb-13 09:23:42

If I was the person who owned the apt I would be mightily pissed off that my goodwill in extending you 'mates rates' has now been abused. Have you not considered how much more it will cost for hot water, heating, electricity, etc. Your mates rates covers the 4 of you, not 8.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 20-Feb-13 09:24:13

I know what you mean about the appts. We've rented an appt that sleeps 6 just for 3 of us. You could squeeze 6 in if you had two people sleeping on the sofa bed and one on the flip down bed in the hall. But no way would I want that many people in such a small space.

Hopefully you won't be in the appt too much.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 09:27:05

Yes, the 'I am worthy' hmm stuff is only to make the point that this is a special thing that we do. We live in France nearish a ski resort - everybody skis here and most people do it like us, on the cheap. But is is still something we treat our family to and look forward to.

I think if I'm honest it is more the fact that the kids aren't terribly well behaved that is pissing me off.

Maybe we could try to say this "Oh, when we invited you we though it would just be the two of you. We don't have space for four of you. If the children can go to their dads then of course you two are still welcome but I understand if you can't come anymore. Sorry for the misunderstanding."

It sounds very reasonable when said here anyway!

ThreeWheelsGood Wed 20-Feb-13 09:27:19

Just write it off to experience, it's too late to say no to the kids now.

I don't think you need to set ground rules as it'll be taken as rude by the other couple, you'd basically be jumping the gun. By all means see how the first day goes and set rules if needed.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 20-Feb-13 09:30:19

French people ime don't seem to bat an eyelid about telling other people's kids off or having their kids told off by long as you're not screaming at them. grin

So if they start messing about just firmly say to them that its not acceptable, someone has kindly let you stay in their home and you need to respect the furniture and that if they want to jump about they may go outside in the sow where there's more space. If they carry on, get their coats and boots and tell them to go outside.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 09:33:18

The apartment is rented out with a price for the week. The maximum number of people who can stay is 8 - it is then up to you what you do with it. If you choose to go as 4 that is your problem, if you choose to go as 8 that is up to maximum capacity for insurance etc.

We have other friends who rent the same apartment from the same friend and they go as 8 - they pay the same as us.

The friend who is coming with us has been to the apartment before and is friends with the owner too.

I can't use the apartment as the reason they can't come. I would have to be honest and say that i can't face the squeeze.

If the other Mum is a beginner then you are going to end up doing no end of the childcare and so on, because she will be too busy spending an hour doing up her boots! Alibaba - this is one of my main concerns!

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 09:40:12

Be brave op and tell them the added children and her lack of skiing experience means it's too much for you to cope with, it's your holiday too remember.

What is the opinion of your dh?

Callisto Wed 20-Feb-13 09:49:05

Sorry, but I don't understand why the childcare would fall to you? The other mother has a partner yes? So surely he will be the one doing the childcare? And both of the men going off for the day while the women look after the children? This isn't the 1950's anymore, not even in France.

OP, it sounds like my idea of hell (the badly behaved children in particular), but really, it is only three days, and you will only have to do childcare and catering if you allow yourself to be walked over. Be firm that everyone (including men and children) mucks in and it should be manageable.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 09:49:56

DH isn't that bothered. He is much better at saying no to stuff than I am (probably because he's french!) so he would feel perfectly happy saying 'sorry no' if the mum asks him to help out with her kids on the slopes, etc.

I am an overly polite Brit so will find it much harder to say no to her, especially if the poor thing is struggling to even sort herself out. I think that is why I would prefer a little beforehand planning - so I don't end up with DH and male friend off having a great time on the black runs and me being asked to manage 4 kids on the blues - which to my mind would be unsafe.

usually when we ski as a family we split our time with the kids in a way where DH gets to go and do some difficult stuff or off piste - at that point I have the kids on the blues. Then DH has the kids and I get to concentrate on myself/practice/do drills/try reds. We also ski as a family a fair bit, all together because we enjoy skiing with our (youngish) children.

I don't want to be in the position of dealing with the other mum and her kids when I am doing my turn with my own children. DH is much less bothered than me as he is a much better skier and could manage that better but would also be much frencher and rude direct with the mum about her children not being our responsibility.

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 09:54:28

You should make it clear from the outset that you aren't going to be Nanny to her children over the three days.

Say to friend and gf : I didn't plan on your dc's being here, are you going to be ok managing them what with gf being a beginner, I'll be busy with our dc's remember.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 09:58:10

You are right Callisto - we are not in the 50s even in France. grin

I think I don't want to bank on the fact that partner will help with kids. He is a very very good snowboarder and they aren't his children - he hasn't known the children for very long as this is quite a new relationship.

I'm probably being a bit controlling in wanting to sit down and discuss how things are going to be organised beforehand. I think I'm just trying to pre-empt a situation where the blokes head off for a morning of black runs and the other mum can't cope and I have to help her (whilst managing my own kids and wasting an expensive ski pass on helping 4 kids get their skis and boots on).

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 10:00:37

The more you say the more of a bloody cheek it is that you weren't consulted before concrete plans on inviting the children were made.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 10:03:40

I didn't plan on your dc's being here, are you going to be ok managing them what with gf being a beginner, I'll be busy with our dc's remember.

Yes, this is the sort of thing I want to say beforehand I think.

I want him to realise that his (expensive) ski pass will have to be used to help out with his GFs kids for much of the time. Especially as he is very very good and probably hasn't been on a green or a blue (unless it led to a bar!) for the last ten years and he probably has NO IDEA what a faff it is skiing with kids and how much time you waste helping them to sort their stuff/go to the toilet/have snacks/etc. And also what a responsibility is is having them on tows/chairlifts/etc.

OK. I need to suck it up. Make the best of it. And practice saying 'non'!

LIZS Wed 20-Feb-13 10:03:43

I would be too. I think the men see it as opportunity to have a good ski under the guise of a family holiday and you will be left with 5 4 kids and a beginner "friend". Will they entertain the kids at all after skiing, cook perhaps or just head for the bar ? How old are the children, surely the beginner would need refresher lessons or at least be cautious, leaving you potentially responsible for all 4. Could you suggest they rent an apartment next door ? Can you ring her direct and discuss arrangements as "you know what men are like sounds so easy but I think there has been some misunderstanding so how is this going to work..."

Saski Wed 20-Feb-13 10:13:12

There is no fucking way I would agree to this. These people, by way of misunderstanding or cheek, are threatening to hijack your holiday.

Are there some financial arrangements that have somehow emboldened your guests? Are they paying half?

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 10:22:03

Blokes are not the 'head to the bar' and leave the womenfolk to manage the children types. I think after skiing will be OK, just a squeeze and a bit hectic for showers, meals, etc. Both men will expect to cook, clean up, etc. I am going food shopping on friday so will phone friends and ask how we are going to organise food. (there is no supermarket in the resort)

No, they haven't been emboldened by financial arrangements. Although I think we need to discuss who pays what. We aren't expecting them to pay towards the apartment but they are the sort who will offer.

Callisto Wed 20-Feb-13 10:22:30

Sounds like the partner will be less than helpful. And I can see his point really. I don't think I would be bringing children on this kind of holiday with a new bloke, and if I was the childless partner, I would be less than impressed with having to provide childcare for a couple of bratty kids. Of course this isn't your problem Beach, but the more you tell us the more it sounds like the children will be really hard work.

I think you need to tell your husband to tell his friend that his partners children jut are not welcome. Good luck.

StuckOnARollercoaster Wed 20-Feb-13 10:23:00

Surely the answer here is to talk to your DH about your concerns and make sure the 2 of you are a 'united front' with regard to not getting left on your own with all the kids.

Saski Wed 20-Feb-13 10:28:33

I'm actually irritated with these people.

TippiShagpile Wed 20-Feb-13 10:33:11

I had a situation like this once OP. It ruined my holiday.

DH and his mate were up and away on the first ski lift and spent the day doing their off piste malarkey and I ended up having to hang out with his mate's wife and their kids on the nursery slopes. They were all beginners, they didn't want to pay for ski school for their kids (mine were at ski school in the morning) and I felt bad at leaving them so I ended up hanging around. After 2 days I told her dh to pull his finger out and spend some time with his wife and kids (in a polite way of course) so my children and I could get some skiing done.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 10:38:58

Thank you everyone for commenting, it is really helping. Helping me to feel better and that IANBU by not wanting this to happen and giving me ideas on how to limit the damage now.

I was surprised to hear the kids were coming at all - I suspect a British couple would have cancelled once they knew they would be having the kids, for their own sakes. French people are much more casual about introducing new partners to kids, going away with them, etc.

Personally I wouldn't go away on holiday with my children (even for 3 nights) with a partner unless we actually lived together. Currently they both have their own houses but are pretty much always at one house or the other. I'm not too sure how long they have been spending time together all 4 of them though.

There are very nice people honestly! I think a lot of this is a cultural difference between me as a Brit and them as French people who are more causal about kids be it in relationships or squeezed into apartments

I think my main plan will be to forewarn them that I wont be a 'ski nanny'.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 10:45:54

DH and his mate were up and away on the first ski lift

That is the sort of thing I'm worried about.

People who are good skiers/boarders are on the lift before less good people (especially kids) have managed to get their boots on and find their gloves.

I DON'T want the good skiers to disappear 'just for a quick warm up' whilst I am left to sort out 4 kids and a beginner. I know the answer is for them to book themselves lessons and will suggest this but I don't know if there will be places available at this late date, nor if they can afford them.

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 10:54:24

Sort it out beforehand and make it perfectly clear.

They are nice people you say so they should be understanding that you won't be expecting to do all of the graft and caring for three extra bodies whilst on the slopes.

It sounds like they are pleasant people so you should be able to work this out. I couldn't bear to disappoint excited kids - even if they are brats - so I would have to muddle on. No reason why you can't agree a food rota though and after all there will be three days when they aren't there at all as well right?

BuiltForComfort Wed 20-Feb-13 11:36:47

The trick here is to arrange your own skiing and do NOT feel responsible for the other dcs or gf. Your DH's mate is her partner, he is the reason she's coming, it's up to him to help her get organised, book lessons etc. beginners need lots of help and that is HIS job not yours. Organise yourself in the same way you would if they were not coming. Choose somewhere accessible for lunch and say you will meet them there at x time. Go out with your DH and dcs, ski as a family first or drop them in school & hit the slopes with your DH. Get your DH on side with this - its his mate and their miscommunication. If you meet for lunch you can then ski as a group after and give your DH's mate a chance for a bit of fast skiing IF his gf is competent enough to ski some gentle runs with you and dcs.

LIZS Wed 20-Feb-13 11:39:38

Which 3 days is it ? If you have already established your family's routine by their arrival then you can more easily say we're off to warm up, meet you at x o'clock by lift y.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 11:47:00

That is sound advice BuiltForComfort. I need to get on with things as I would normally and they will have to sort themselves out, certainly for a fair bit of the time. I don't mind doing some gentle greens with her - I'm an intermediate skier and am happy to do some gentle skiing on easy slopes as I use them to practice my own technique and there is great scenery where we are going so it is perfectly pleasant to so gentle stuff with a beginner (we've all been there and someone was nice enough to spend some time with us). I just don't want to be doing it with 4 kids to look after at the same time.

AFAIA, she can ski a bit - she has been before on two occasions and I think can slow plough her way down a straightforward green. She is nervous of lifts though and anything at all steeper than a gentle green or long (fair enough for a beginner).

And yes, we will have 3 days to ourselves to do our own thing too.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 11:49:18

LIZS, unfortunately it is the first three days.

Although at least that means we have the other three days to look forward to and will appreciate the quiet apartment once they have left!

SeventiesBush Wed 20-Feb-13 12:01:48

I agree, just organize yourselves, I wouldn't make any formal, preemptive statement that you're not going to be looking after their kids, just decide what your family is going to do and do it.

Then they will either have to ask you if you can take care of beginners/kids and you can say no, or you can have a casual "so what are your plans for today" chat at breakfast, and if there's any sort of "Well, we thought we could leave the kids with you for the morning" or whatever, again, you just say gosh, no, sorry, you'll have your hands full already, shall you all meet up for lunch/hot chocolate after the lifts close?

zoobaby Wed 20-Feb-13 12:02:07

I think you need to make your expectations/limits very clear to your DH and have an agreement between the 2 of you. You defo do not want to get stuck with extra kids purely from the logistical nightmare that is toileting while kitted out in ski gear (I say this as someone who's never been up a mountain with kids).

If the "dad" and the extra 2DCs are similar ability to your family, why don't you just stick together en-mass for 2 days? If not, they can be his responsibility completely. Also, since kids tend to be daredevils, suggest that the 2 men take all 4 on some of the more adventurous pistes? Or fiddle about in the ski park if there is one. I'm less confident than my DP so I'd absolutely insist that I never be left with unknown kids who might get ahead of me. Maybe agree to meet the mum somewhere at lunch and perhaps agree on some time when the kids would be with her (tough if they get bored).

It's easy to be insistent (and justified) about arrangements on the slopes, but I'm really feeling your pain for in the apartment. Yikes! Will the stove be large enough to cook for that many? I remember we once had to cook spag... had to cook mince first then pasta second as stove wasn't big enough for 2 pots simultaneously. Haha.

if there is an oven you can slow cook bolognase in that

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 12:45:56

I think you need to make your expectations/limits very clear to your DH and have an agreement between the 2 of you.

Yes, I think this is key.

You are all being most helpful with all your positive suggestions. Am feeling a bit less like half our holiday has the potential to be ruined.

Cooking is going to be tricky - two electric rings and a microwave are what we have to work with. There is a dishwasher though and an electric 'raclette' thing that doubles as a crepe thing (technical term). I am thinking about bringing my slow cooker - it is pretty big so we could shove some meat and veg in it in the morning and then just have to boil up some rice or potatoes to go with it when we get back. Can't help feeling pissed off that am finding myself thinking about the logistics of food preparation though (bah humbug!).

zoobaby Wed 20-Feb-13 15:03:53

Hopefully they'll have a late arrival and really early morning transfer. I have a feeling you're gonna say they're driving though.

Those hot grill raclette things are pretty useful. But still feeling your pain for sharing the cramped space. Does the apartment have a ski storage area downstairs? I just keep having visions of the apartment we had one year where you practically had to sit on the toilet in the bathroom to cook your food in the kitchen. We laughed ourselves silly that first night grin

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 16:09:51

They are indeed driving zoobaby. Sitting on toilet to cook dinner sounds familiar - these places are always not only tiny but generally really badly laid out too...

The one we are going to has a low sloping ceiling in the kitchen right where the hob is - you have to be small and lean your head to one side to be able to cook grin

Oh bollocks, evenings are going to be a nightmare aren't they? The kids are all quite young - we have 2 daughters who are 9 and 6. The other two children are boys of 5 and 8. I just had to break the news to mine that they are coming and my 9 year old isn't very happy as she found them loud and pushy when they met them. Oh, to be able to go back in time and have this not be happening.....

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 16:56:04

Oh no your dd isn't happy sad, hope it won't spoil her holiday too much.

Whocansay Wed 20-Feb-13 17:22:55

I would imagine the friend who is letting the apartment for mates rates will not do so again if he finds out about this arrangement. What will you do if they trash it? It was wrong of you to invite anyone in the first place IMHO.

For abuse of ski chalets, see EspressoMonkey's thread.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 17:42:36

Whocansay - the apartment isn't an issue. We are renting it for up to 8 people - we just originality chose to go as 4 and then added two to our party.

The mates rates is still a fair amount of money and it is what the owners rent the apartment out to friends for, regardless of how many people actually go (as long as it isn't more than 8). They know the friend who is coming, they know that there will be 8 in the apartment as we have told them - they don't mind at all. They don't just rent the place out to close friends - if we had friends who wanted to go as an 8 they could and the (nice) owners would charge them what they are charging us. They actually very rarely rent the apartment out for its full price to perfect strangers as they are nice enough to rent it cheaply to friends and acquaintances.

If the additional children don't treat the place right, DH and I will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Sugarice, my DD just have to get on with it. I'm not against our kids having to make room for and share with other children. I just don't want those other children to be difficult or annoying.

Wishihadabs Wed 20-Feb-13 18:33:09

I completely feel your pain. FWIW I would get the men to take the 8&9 y olds with them. My ds 8 was doing blacks and powder this year, would have been bored to tears on blue runs. Just a tip about catering- don't try to cook.

Those apartments are impossible. We ate well at lunchtime then had yummy cheese, Wine and bread in the evening. We also have bought frozen meals with us and got pizza or a rotisserie chicken on other nights. We always eat out at least once but your budget may not stretch to that.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 19:30:46

Wishihadabs, that is good advice about cooking. Don't know that my slightly timid 9 yo would do blacks but she has already done reds in good snow conditions with her dad. I don't like to take her down reds myself as I'm not a great skier and would struggle if I needed to get her out of trouble on a red (last week, DH had to ski her down an icy bit of red that I would find hard myself, let alone skiing a child down).

I guess the men could take the older children off. I'm not totally crazy about that idea as I know I will end up being in charge of beginner mate, her 5yo and my 6yo if that happens. Neither the 6yo nor the 5yo can manage drag lifts by themselves (unless a very short gentle nursery slope one) and I can't see my beginner friend taking either of them up a lift.

I think we might slow cooker it one night, do bits and bobs after big lunch another day and take out if possible on the final night. We have budgeted to eat out one night (will take sandwiches on the slopes that day to balance). Don't want to force other people into our slightly scrimping lunch arrangement though!

We'll see. Will try not to plan too ahead and accept that we may spend a bit of extra cash in order to make things easier all round.

Wishihadabs Wed 20-Feb-13 20:27:57

That does sound limiting. I just thought it would be easier not to have bored whinging older dcs if you did have to have the little ones with you. I think the others should certainly chip in, maybe then you can all enjoy a few more meals out.

Another thing DH and I have done is left the dcs in ski school over lunchtime. Then they get a hot lunch and are ready for more skiing in the afternoon. While you and DH have a cheapskate sandwich and a full on ski.

Wishihadabs Wed 20-Feb-13 20:31:32

Meant to say hope you have a great time.

ZenNudist Wed 20-Feb-13 20:36:30

Either decide you want them to come and stop feeling pissed off or tell them quite reasonably to do one.

Who wants to be crammed 2 families to a to tiny apartment? It's a ski holiday. You will spend all that money on passes booze and petrol and food then not get to enjoy family time.

Bugger that.

Abra1d Wed 20-Feb-13 20:38:19

I think you and your children need to be out early in the morning so you don't get stuck doing all the childcare. Book the children some lessons (even if they're brilliant it doesn't do any harm) and take them to them first thing after breakfast. You can make it seem like a bit of a rush (which it always is). Then hit the slopes by yourself, if necessary.

Whocansay Wed 20-Feb-13 20:38:29

Apologies OP. I got the impression you were doing this behind the back of the mate who was letting you rent the apartment.

I still would uninvite them though, as it sounds as if its going to be stressful all round. If you won't do this, I suggest you give them the details for an instructor on arrival and leave them to it while you do your own thing.

theoriginalandbestrookie Wed 20-Feb-13 20:40:22

If you do get left with the beginner mate absolutely do not take responsibility for her or for the children.
Just say " I am off to do this red run, see you later." Don't let British guilt spoil your holiday.

Suggest to her in advance that they may want to book lessons in advance as they are very popular email her a link to the website. That makes it clear that a) you think they need lessons and b) you aren't going to provide that service for free.

GrendelsMum Wed 20-Feb-13 20:41:47

I don't see why you keep thinking you're responsible for this other lady's DCs. You aren't. End of story.

She can't take a child up a drag lift? Then her partner needs to look after them.

You have children of your own to look after.

If you want to, you could always explicitly say that 1 afternoon, say, you will look after her children on the slopes so she can have time to practice alone.

PepeLePew Wed 20-Feb-13 20:42:54


Dear xx

Thinking about food while you are with us. The kitchen is tiny and preparing meals isn't easy so we need to plan ahead?

I will bring food and cook on the first night. If you cook for us all on the second night, we could eat out on the final night.

We will stop at a supermarket on the way and pick up milk, cereal, jam, butter, coffee etc for breakfast. We plan on taking a packed lunch each day so I will be buying ham and cheese for us. Would you prefer to provide your own breakfast and lunch food or would you like me to get it and we will share the cost?



Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 20:57:11

Whocansay no need to apologise. Wouldn't not let owner know what was going on with their apartment though!

I think uninviting is not on really now that the kids know they are going skiing.

Have been speaking to DH and he is going to phone mate and tell all. He is going to explain that we weren't really thinking the kids were involved but that we don't want to disappoint them now, and that they really need to have a think about managing 'their' kids on the slopes/check out lessons and we all need to work out easy food solutions and do any necessary shopping.

theoriginalandbestrookie Wed 20-Feb-13 21:02:13

Glad you and your DH are on the same wave length, but bearing in mind he is the one who didn't seem to think the kids were an issue I would ask him to get the GFs email address that way you can email her about the food and the lessons.

Suspect that your DH does see this as a cracking way to spend time skiing with his mate and hasn't considered the consequences to you. Good that he is doing so now, but if it were me I'd also like to have made sure that I pointed it out beforehand.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 21:05:30

Thanks again for suggestions - am taking it all on board. Am going to get DH to ask his mate how they have considered managing the 5yo in particular who will need to ride on an adult's leg to get up a drag/need help on and off a chairlift/etc.

It Will Be Fine. We Are Going To Have A Great Time. <adds shedloads of wine to shopping list>

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 21:13:41

You'll have a fab time regardless, you lucky spuds!!

Sugarice Wed 20-Feb-13 21:19:32

Beachcomber I hope you didn't take my post at .16.59 to be sarcastic, it wasn't intended that way.

I meant that your dd was quite entitled to be pissed off that a child she wasn't keen on joining her on her holiday, no snottiness intended at all.

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 21:28:25

No worries, Sugarice - didn't take it that way at all!

My eldest is quite a quiet child and doesn't do well with rough and tumble as she has health issues that mean she is very slight and underweight. She doesn't like being pushed around and tends to become withdrawn around more boisterous children even if they are younger.

beachyhead Wed 20-Feb-13 21:33:03

I'm not sure I wouldn't bite the bullet and pay for ski lessons for her kids...

Beachcomber Wed 20-Feb-13 21:39:01

Beachyhead, ski lessons are expensive. I save for my own kid's ones and also use Xmas money they get from their grandpa to pay for them. Don't think I'm willing to whip my credit card out and spend a hundred € for someone else's kids!

I doubt our friend would accept that from us anyway.

Wishihadabs Thu 21-Feb-13 05:44:57

Beachcomber, you are not seriously suggesting you would babysit her dcs while yours are in ski school are you ? There is no way I would do that ! I was assuming either all the dcs had lessons or none.

Wishihadabs Thu 21-Feb-13 06:15:03

Beachcomber you sound really nice (too nice ?). If the 5 yo can't manage a drag/chair lift and his mother can't help him then her dp needs to be with him or they pay for lessons-simples.

I was thinking that the French children would be ok skiing blues relatively unaided, so a bit dull but doable. No way do you want to be picking up someone else's chad on the nursery slopes on your skiing holiday.

MercedesKing Thu 21-Feb-13 06:17:53

In fact you can see the stuff from another aspect, a journey with kids accompanied can have much pleasure, you can try to figure it out to make your journey not being haunted by the crowed problem. You would have much fun to communicate with them, try to think positively! smile

Gingerodgers Thu 21-Feb-13 06:29:15

You sound a bit like me, getting your knickers in a twist, and predicting things that will annoy you in advance. Good luck, I am sure it will be great. Maybe sit all the kids down for a ground rules chat when you arrive, with their mum,then you will feel able to tell them off if they are jumping on the furniture. The other couple do sound nice, lets just hope their new relationship doesn't involve lots of noisy sex!!!

Beachcomber Thu 21-Feb-13 09:18:36

No, I wasn't thinking of looking after other children while mine are having lessons - that is my child free time to concentrate on myself. Our kids have been booked into lessons for weeks, I have no idea if there are any places left should our friends want to put their kids in, I doubt it, it is peak season and school holidays. There will be loads of local children in ski school whilst their parents are at work.

All the children can come down blues - just the younger two need help on the lifts as they are small. My 6yo will ski down fine but she is a bit too light for some of the jerkier lifts so we always take her up on our legs. We try to use chairlifts when possible as she likes these.

So you are right here If the 5 yo can't manage a drag/chair lift and his mother can't help him then her dp needs to be with him or they pay for lessons-simples.

Can this be done on a snowboard? The drag with child on leg I mean?

Will try to untwist knickers Gingerodgers grin. I think I'm being like this because I suspect a nonparent has no idea what it is like skiing with kids and I suspect a beginner has no idea what it is like skiing with kids (children learnt with their dad). Usually I'm quite relaxed, honestly!

<adds 'no noisy sex' to List Of Rules On Clip Board>

Wishihadabs Thu 21-Feb-13 17:54:27

Haha at no noisy sex rule. Surely not with the sleeping arrangements you describe !

I'm afraid I don't know if you can do the leg trick with a snow board. We tend to prefer chairs as well.

exoticfruits Fri 22-Feb-13 09:53:36

As a skier who has stayed in small apartments and skied with children it sounds a nightmare. Since it is a bit late to stop it I would just establish from the start that you are not involved in any of their skiing arrangements. Say what you are doing and say you hope they have a nice day! You could arrange to meet for lunch but apart from that just socialise in the evening- maybe ski a bit together later in the week.

exoticfruits Fri 22-Feb-13 09:54:11

Oh- and hope for good weather!

Beachcomber Sat 23-Feb-13 20:13:38

Thanks again for all the messages. We are off tomorrow. Have just met with friends to talk about who is sleeping where, etc. Am trying to look on the bright side but not managing terribly well. It is going to be chaos.

Good luck!

theoriginalandbestrookie Sat 23-Feb-13 21:42:06

Try to enjoy yourself Beachcomber. I do hope you are grabbing the bedroom for your family at least.

Do not sacrifice your family holiday and remember you do get the last 3 days to yourself !

GreenEggsAndNichts Sat 23-Feb-13 21:56:56

Might just be marking my place, I'd love to hear how this turns out. smile

Have fun, OP!

zoobaby Sat 23-Feb-13 22:14:46

Hope all goes well and you come back saying the good ol "I really don't know why I got so worked up" line. Have fun! smile

exoticfruits Sun 24-Feb-13 07:18:13

Hope it goes well - report back please!

Beachcomber Sun 24-Feb-13 07:38:20

will report back! they are already asking to stay an extra night and if we can take some of their gear in our (packed car).

aaaahh. breathes and channels peace love and goodwill to all men...

oh dear...

Beachcomber Sun 24-Feb-13 07:40:27

i may need this aibu to be a support thread. MN will get me through this!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sun 24-Feb-13 08:15:07

The answers are no and no, surely??

They sound like pisstakers, you are going to need to be very firm!

Beachcomber Sun 24-Feb-13 08:32:38

we said no about extra night and didnt have space in the car anyway. dh and i had a good chat last night. he is very much on board with me and ready to keep everyone in line. the extra night request has pissed him off no end.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sun 24-Feb-13 08:35:15

Oh good, well at least you are in agreement with DH - and it sounds like the cheeky extra night request will have hardened your hearts in relation to other favours they may beg!

I really hope you manage to have a good time! grin

Dubjackeen Sun 24-Feb-13 08:37:43

Well done,OP. it sounds a bit of a nightmare,hope things work out. At least you still have the three days to yourselves. Have fun,and keep us posted.

PetiteRaleuse Sun 24-Feb-13 08:39:04

Very interesting thread cultural difference wise. Just marking my place.

Cuddlyrunner Sun 24-Feb-13 08:41:13

will be looking forward to updates x

saffronwblue Sun 24-Feb-13 08:44:17

Good luck!

theoriginalandbestrookie Sun 24-Feb-13 08:48:17

Do keep us updated, they sound very entitled now.

I remember a bunch of us once did a ski holiday with maximum capacity. It was hysterical ( in retrospect). 3 of us were in one room which had a bunk bed and pull out trundle bed, but the room was so small that when the trundle was out you couldn't close the door. The person on the top bunk got drunk every night and threw her clothes down on top of me when she got undressed, oh and talked in her sleept. Someone else sleep walked.

We had one toilet between 7 of us.

Make sure your DH keeps his steely resolve. I have a horrible feeling that once he sees his mate, and has the promise of a pal to go down the blacks with, he will be out of that appartment as soon as the lifts open. But even if that is the case you are under no obligation to sort out the others. Just get yourself and your DCs ready as quickly as you can and dash off, before she starts roping you in.

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Sun 24-Feb-13 09:04:03

Well, it's probably a good thing that asking for the extra night has pissed him off a bit (and that he said NO!) because he's more likely to see your POV about other things now too! smile

I'm not sure why you needed a discussion about who was sleeping where? YOU are renting this, they are coming along for 3 days - they sleep where you tell them they're sleeping! Stop being so british grin

I hope you have sorted the food out too. Try not to let yourself get out of pocket over it - it sounds like they can afford it, if you just let them know what they owe you and actually if they offer to contribute towards the rental, I'd say 'Fabulous, thank you' then you can treat your girls to a few things (another dinner or lunch out, a hat they like - whatever) which might make up for having the others along.

Frankly - I think you're barking inviting them in the first place, one family in one of those appartments is more than enough. I lived in several over the years and can't imagine having 8 in there with all the gear! Urgh.

Make sure the wine gets packed first and do NOT say 'Yes' to being responsible for her kids all the time!

FlowerTruck Sun 24-Feb-13 09:26:23

I thought to myself as I started reading this, I bet they stay for longer than three nights ! Please come back and update us.

LIZS Sun 24-Feb-13 11:36:09

Agree , bet they decide to ski a full day when they should be leaving and then could they just have early dinner, stop over...Fingers crossed weather is less than kind that day to put them off! Will look out for aibu thread but just hope you are all still speaking by mid week.

JengaBlock Sun 24-Feb-13 20:37:29

Nosey lurker, have just read this thread! Good luck and have fun!

Beachcomber Mon 25-Feb-13 05:19:47

thank you for messages about having fun. afraid it has all gone totally tits up as dh has been hurt. we were standing at the side of a gentle green and he was adjusting our 6 year olds helmet. out of nowhere appeared two skiers, one going very fast and the other totally out of control. skier swerved to avoid a tree and smashed into dh and my dd. dh tried to protect dd/not fall on her so tumbled awkwardly and twisted his knee. thankfully his ski came off so the ligament is only partially torn.

medics were great, he has got a brace, crutches, etc. leg imobilsed for at least a month, cant drive,etc.

dd is fine but very upset and doesnt want to ski anymore as she is afaid people will smash into her.

the two skiers had decided to go off piste and were coming down a steep bit that intersected with our green. they didnt stop to see if we were ok so we reported them. apparantly other people had complained too and they had their lift passes taken off them.

we are trying to think positively and be thankful that neither child was hurt but we are all gutted. slightly imposing friends the least of our worries now. there is probably a lesson in there somewhere...

Beachcomber Mon 25-Feb-13 05:23:02

am posting from my phone in bed as i cant sleep and being grateful for the distraction.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Mon 25-Feb-13 05:27:33

Oh no! So sorry, Beachcomber.

Camwombat Mon 25-Feb-13 05:32:58

oh no, thats awful sad glad your dd is ok though.

Beachcomber Mon 25-Feb-13 05:57:58

thank you. i saw dh go over and thought "there goes a ligament". then had a nasty couple of minutes checking dd over. she was crying and unable to tell me if she was hurt. thank god she is ok though. dd2 was really upset too. dont know if i will ski with them today. i might take them to the nursery slope to try to get their confidence back. dont know, ill see what they want to do.

im so angry with the two skiers. am SO thankful neither child was hurt.

Sugarice Mon 25-Feb-13 06:44:36

Oh no beachcomber shock thank god it wasn't worse and dd wasn't seriously injured and what gits they were for not stopping to check on your dh and dd.

Are your visitors still coming?

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Mon 25-Feb-13 07:08:30

So sorry beach.

LIZS Mon 25-Feb-13 07:19:54

So sorry , how horrid. There seems to have been an increased number of reported incidents this last week. Glad they caught them and hope your insurance will pursue them. Do get your dd's back on the easy slopes , it may be quieter during the week anyway, but can understand your reluctance. Have the others shown up and is it worth leaving earlier than planned to avoid unnecessary stress if your dds don't want to ski.

Pourquoimoi Mon 25-Feb-13 07:40:39

Oh no hmm. I read your thread a few days ago but didn't comment, just saw it here and came for an update. I didn't expect that update though, poor you and what a bugger. It is so annoying that other people can cause that much hassle and then ski offshock.

I do hope your 'guests' are being supportive?

Thinking of you, I hope you get the dc confidence up and try to enjoy a bit if a ski on your own if you can.

Hissy Mon 25-Feb-13 07:46:32

So sorry to hear this, thinking of you all.

exoticfruits Mon 25-Feb-13 08:00:33

Oh dear- so shocked to read this thread today. So sorry- it is the sort of thing that you utterly dread because there is nothing you can do. I wish your DH a full recovery and hope that your DD can get on the slope and get her confidence back.

saffronwblue Mon 25-Feb-13 08:54:29

Yikes - poor everyone. What a shock for you all. Hope you can salvage some family moments in amongst it all.

clam Mon 25-Feb-13 09:33:40

Oh no! You poor things.
I can sympathise with the leg damage - not quite the same thing but I broke my leg 6 weeks ago and therefore couldn't ski this year, although I went along on crutches last week with the family for the rest of it. It was tough to miss out on something I'd been looking forward to since the previous year, and tougher still to realise that ski resorts are not geared up for the injured - ungritted steps everywhere, a nightmare on crutches, although I stayed indoors for the week.
It's bad enough injuring yourself if it's technically your own fault, but SO much more annoying when it's someone else's. And they didn't stop? Bastards. Glad they were reported.
Echo the idea that you must try to get your dd back on the slopes before a real fear kicks in.
Good luck.

JengaBlock Mon 25-Feb-13 09:44:46

Oh no! Not a happy update. So sorry your dh got hurt.

Beachcomber Mon 25-Feb-13 09:47:08

thank you everyone. guests are here, they arrived yesterday. they are being supportive and want to help. apartment is a squeeze.

we are all feeling a bit better today. such is life, nothing to do but get on with it and be thankful that nothing worse happened. a ski injury is annoying but not the end of the world.

Spoonful Mon 25-Feb-13 09:57:30

Oh no, what awful people not to stop after crashing into your DH and DD!
Glad your DDs are both Ok and I hope your DH recovers quickly.

Wishihadabs Mon 25-Feb-13 10:56:54

I hope you manage to enjoy yourselves a little bit and your dds get some skiing in.

Beachcomber Mon 25-Feb-13 15:42:41

thanks again everyone for kind posts. dds went to their lesson this am and got on fine. instructor very kind when i told him about their fright. we went sledging this pm so that was fun. dh ok, using ice packs and lots of arnica on top prescribed pills

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Mon 25-Feb-13 17:24:15

Oh no, how awful sad Poor DH and what a fright for the DD's sad I'm glad they found the bloody idiots and took their passes off of them, some people are so bloody inconsiderate and dangerous!

I completely tore my cruciate ligament skiing - last run of the last day... typical! Hopefully your DH's will heal much more quickly as it's only a partial, but still - a miserable week for him.

I hope you and the girls still manage to enjoy yourselves and that you get some decent skiing in by yourself too.

whois Mon 25-Feb-13 18:22:35

Oh no OP that's awful about your DP and DD. so glad she isn't hurt!

Some people are suck fucking idiots on the slopes.

Beachcomber Tue 26-Feb-13 23:20:35

very sorry to hear of other posters injuries. hope all mends well.

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Tue 26-Feb-13 23:23:53

Oh Beachcomber - mine was years ago, I've skiied like a waddling duck since then smile

Hope you are coping OK with the visitors and a settee bound DH!

Make sure YOU get some decent skiing in - someone might as well!!

Beachcomber Tue 26-Feb-13 23:41:36

glad to hear you were able to ski again! havent done much skiing but will try to tomorrow.

dd1 has got a tummy bug - we are being rather unlucky it would seem.

visitors are doing my head in. they have hardly skied for some reason. i dont know why they came tbh.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Tue 26-Feb-13 23:58:39

Poor you - when do they go?

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Wed 27-Feb-13 00:30:49

Oh good god - tell me you have wine at least??

Poor DD - I hope none of the rest of you get it!

If they aren't skiing, DH is laid up and DD is ill - why the hell has it not occured to them to leave? They aren't under any illusion that they are 'helping' by staying in or staying longer are they shock

BuiltForComfort Wed 27-Feb-13 12:46:46

Good grief, so if they are hardly skiing where are they all day? I am imagining 8 of you, DH with his leg up, DD1 with tummy bug having to occupy a tiny skiing apartment for the best part of every day! They must be due to leave soon surely? Commiserations on your bad luck.

Beachcomber Wed 27-Feb-13 20:37:14

thanks again for lovely mners and supportive posts. guests left after lunch today. they made noises about staying but i wasnt having any of it. have no idea now why they came. i can only think that they thought we would help with their kids and when that was clearly not possible due to dhs knee they didnt really know what to do.

live and learn is what i have taken from this trip.

Dubjackeen Wed 27-Feb-13 20:50:45

Poor you,what a rotten thing to happen. Hope your dd and dh feel better soon. Put your feet up and have a nice glass of wine tonight. Hope you enjoy rest of holiday. smile

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Wed 27-Feb-13 21:33:48

Well done you!!

Live & learn, live and learn grin learn not to invite people on a family holiday in a ridiculously small french appartment & that's just for starters!!

fallon8 Wed 27-Feb-13 22:16:27

Stay home and send the others you don't really need to explain why you can afford to go skiing for six days,,it's your dosh

pluCaChange Wed 27-Feb-13 23:14:36

Oh, dear, what a crush of inconsiderate idiots, at home and "abroad"! Hope your DH mends soon. Sadly, it reflects very well on him that his injury was.w orse for trying to protect his DD! sad

"The rain, it raineth on the just
And also on the unjust fella,
But chiefly on the just, because
The unjust steals the just's umbrella!"

Sorry to hear your DH has been injured.

Hope your DDs get their confidence back.

GingerBlondecat Thu 28-Feb-13 05:18:00

Beachcomber Wed 27-Feb-13 20:37:14
thanks again for lovely mners and supportive posts. guests left after lunch today. they made noises about staying but i wasnt having any of it. have no idea now why they came. i can only think that they thought we would help with their kids and when that was clearly not possible due to dhs knee they didnt really know what to do.
They don't listen too well, do they. Or, they didn't beleive what they heard......... when your DH set out the rules and said NO to extra days.
bloody Cheek of them.

clicketyclick66 Thu 28-Feb-13 05:47:21

I've only just seen this thread now. I'm sorry for what happened your poor dh and dd, I hope they will be better soon. And I hope you relax and enjoy the rest of your holiday.

Beachcomber Fri 01-Mar-13 19:07:47

had a lovely day skiing with the girls. they have got their confidence back and were ace. really proud of them. am now enjoying wine

thanks again to everyone who was so kind on this thread!

HollaAtMeBaby Fri 01-Mar-13 20:23:28

Glad you have survived the visit and that 3/4 of you are enjoying the slopes... hope DH's injury heals soon.

exoticfruits Fri 01-Mar-13 22:06:11

Confidence is the important thing- glad you all enjoying it, except your poor DH who hopefully will be fit for the slopes next year.

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