to think my neighbours are being ridiculous.

(107 Posts)
ThatVikRinA22 Mon 18-Feb-13 22:02:45

a few months ago my adjoining neighbour put up half a fence between our two gardens.
its half a fence. its his boundary so i have left him to it, although i did tell him that we were going to be completely revamping out garden and wall and i would have done the fence - but it is his boundary so thats fine. i thought.

now we are having our drive block paved and my front garden landscaped and a new fence up.

neighbours have suddenly decided that they have put their fence up in the wrong place and that the boundary is in our favour by about 6 inches.

they have gone and complained to my builders that they block paved up to their fence when their fence is in the wrong place.....

the point is they fucking well put the fence there!!! not me! i couldnt give a toss if they want another 6 inches of garden - they are welcome to it but now it means that my paving stops short of the fence and looks bloody stupid.....

how should i broach this?

they are inconsiderate bastards at best - when i begin any work i always let the neighbours know out of courtesy - they have just spent the last 5 weeks banging and drilling having a new kitchen fitted (yes - 5 weeks!!! to fit a kitchen!!!) and i work shifts - including nights. they dont give a shit.

im actually really angry about all this but i have to live adjoining them and dont want to start a ridiculous neighbour dispute....

my garden is costing alot of money - and their stupidity is ruining the finish. they say they are moving the fence - but when??? after tomorrow my garden will be finished - they have had plenty of time to move it if they wanted to.

im actually seething inwardly.

SandyChick Mon 18-Feb-13 22:11:48

I understand how you must feel. We put a new garden fence up a few years ago and it was a bloody nightmare because of our neighbours.

But, saying that I think the best thing to do is just take a deep breath and count to 10 wink. In the grand scheme of things it is only a garden and not worth being stressed out.

Your neighbour will either move the fence and you can add some shrubs etc to hide the gap but i bet they never actually get around to moving it for the sake of a few inches and you'll have stressed out over nothing. grin

Flisspaps Mon 18-Feb-13 22:12:58

angry on your behalf.

Fuckers.

MagicHouse Mon 18-Feb-13 22:12:59

I don't understand - will they move the fence further your way and on top of your block paving? Or will they be expecting to remove 6 inches of paving before they do it? Whichever they choose will be a complete nuisance for them I would imagine.
I think they sound like complete pains, but they probably can insist on moving the fence over if it's on the deeds.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 18-Feb-13 22:15:47

I bet they never move it as well. But if they do you could have a gravel strip?

Are they right though? Can you check deeds?

You could be really awkward and say you dispute it and will happily go to court. They'd never bother then surely?

Cailinsalach Mon 18-Feb-13 22:16:22

I believe it was Robert Frost who said good walls make good neighbours.

Good luck OP. I hope your neighbours do the right thing.

SucksToBeMe Mon 18-Feb-13 22:16:35

YANBU They sound childish and pathetic.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 18-Feb-13 22:17:32

Yes, surely your paving won't stop short of the fence if they move it. It'll go under the fence and stick out on their side?? So make their side look odd.

YANBU. Can you put a fence up just inside of your boundary, just to leave the no mans land between the two fences?

Bastard sodding neighbours. angry Ours are leaving a brick wall to fall down onto our path, even though we offered to lay it if they went halves on materials (it's their boundary wall). You have my sympathy

coraltoes Mon 18-Feb-13 22:21:06

Set fire to it

aquashiv Mon 18-Feb-13 22:22:16

Are they correct? Check with land registry you can do this on line.

TheLibrarianOok Mon 18-Feb-13 22:24:48

Just do what Wewerehere said and have 2 fences. Make yours nice and tall.
Feckers

quoteunquote Mon 18-Feb-13 22:30:05

here for very good advice.

take a deep breath before you get into legal disputes that only make solicitors rich, just because a person puts a fence up somewhere doesn't mean it is the boundary,

www.gardenlaw.co.uk/boundaries.html

I don't understand. They want 6 extra inches (arf arf), yet you will have a gap (arf arf) how is this?

FairPhyllis Mon 18-Feb-13 22:36:32

Is the fence actually in the wrong place though? You need to check this out before you can decide anything.

Nanny0gg Mon 18-Feb-13 22:39:29

Why don't you put your paving up to where it should be and then put your own fence on the correct boundary?
Then it doesn't matter what they do.

JollyGolightly Mon 18-Feb-13 22:40:34

Wankers.

But I seem to remember that neighbour disputes (official ones) have to be declared if you sell, so be careful.

I'll send them some bad vibes for you though, and I am a bit witchy.

Catchingmockingbirds Mon 18-Feb-13 22:49:23

hmm they're going to cause all this hassle (for them, you don't need to do anything!) of moving the fence and messing around with the paving slabs all over 6 inches? That is pretty hilarious, if I were you I'd leave them to it and sit back and laugh at them. If afterwards you think your garden looks a bit off you could take sandy's advice and hide it with some shrubs.

ThatVikRinA22 Mon 18-Feb-13 23:03:44

they want my builders to take up six inches of block paving and redo it so that it leaves a gap for them to move the fence.

im not actually convinced that the boundary is where he is saying it is but for 6 inches (arf!!) i couldnt care less - he can have his extra inches (arf) but its the fact he is making my builders take up part of our block paving to leave a gap for when they decide to move the fence.....

ive just been around actually. it was annoying me sufficiently to go and speak to him about it....

we are fine. but i just asked him what the fuck....

they are bloody clueless, he is insisting that the middle of our two houses is 2 1/2 bricks each from the window....he got his tape measure out.

wanker. im not arguing. cannot be remotely arsed over 2 1/2 bricks. but he is making me move my block paving. he has stuck some tape on the wall to show where he thinks the boundary is....hmm

VivaLeBeaver Mon 18-Feb-13 23:17:46

Leave your block paving where it is. Tell him if he wants to move the fence he can sort it all out himself.

MagicHouse Mon 18-Feb-13 23:21:10

Really annoying :-$ I would maybe get a quote for the builders to do what they want, and suggest he pays for it, since it's effectively his fault for putting his fence in the wrong place.

babanouche Mon 18-Feb-13 23:22:40

He's an arse and a douche bag. I've no advice but I had to get that off my chest. Again I say, he's an arse and a douche bag. Arse.

ThatVikRinA22 Mon 18-Feb-13 23:23:16

but the thing is viva he will make a hash of it - ive seen what he did with the fence! its not straight, the posts are way higher than the panels, and they only erected half the fence before they got bored and fucked off.....

ive just paid alot of money to have my garden look lovely, so i would rather my builders re do the block paving than have that numpty next door do it....

the builders have just gone up to the fence and where they house stops - but they say where their house stops isnt the boundary confused so that begs the question why did they put their fence there then!!! they are numpties of highest order.
but i really really cannot be arsed to argue over it. they are really quite odd - he is quite friendly and speaks occasionally, she has a face like a smacked arse and doesnt....

badtemperedaldbitch Mon 18-Feb-13 23:25:53

oooh do be careful... my DF is in the middle of a boundary dispute.... and it had been going on for years. there is a tree stump where the neighbour says the fence should be... It couldnt have possibly ever been there, even when the tree was a branch

£16k and counting....

the cost to his health
the loss of value to the house when prospective buyers hear about a neighbour dispute

Please be careful...

badtemperedaldbitch Mon 18-Feb-13 23:29:00

also block paving is kind of wedged in... if you move the 'soldier stones' (i think they are called) the whole thing can drift appart and you can end up with quite a mess

sadeyedladyofthelowlandsase Mon 18-Feb-13 23:30:09

Vicar, are you in Norwich? Because we are having to listen to massive issues with various neighbours over their bloody fence, their bloody kitchen, the other neighbours bloody fence, the other neighbours bloody fence, the mad bunch of nutters in the flats who are horrible and aggressive...

They're all being complete bastards and arguing lots. I just want to pinch their noses and tell them to stop being such twats.

You said that you would have replaced the fence yourself anyway as part of your landscaping.

So finish the paving where he says the boundary is and put up your own fucking huge naice fence.

Sorted smile

ZebraOwl Mon 18-Feb-13 23:32:07

Definitely worth a check of the land registry to find out where the boundary actually is before you decide whether or not to have the builders remove the 6" in question. Just letting him get on & do is sadly unlikely to actually be stress-free & letting him annexe bits of your garden could set a really bad precedent for future hmm

Catchingmockingbirds Mon 18-Feb-13 23:33:58

I'd check the land registry tomorrow then and see if he's right or not about the boundary before making any decisions.

BlatantLies Mon 18-Feb-13 23:38:57

I would check your deeds.

How old is your house? The newer the house the more likely the deeds will be clearer as to where the boundary should be.

ThatVikRinA22 Mon 18-Feb-13 23:51:47

not in Norwich.

how do i check with land registry where the boundary is then?

BlatantLies Tue 19-Feb-13 00:25:38

There should be plans with your house deeds.

quoteunquote Tue 19-Feb-13 01:17:07
PatienceALittleThin Tue 19-Feb-13 08:01:03

As a temporary measure, to keep you new garden looking nice and tidy, you could put some decorative gravel down between the edge of your block paving and the fence.

HecateWhoopass Tue 19-Feb-13 08:28:42

Do you think this is garden envy grin and an attempt to be petty and spiteful and take something away from you?

There are people like that.

i agree - get the deeds. Find out if they are right. Take them a copy and say look, this is the actual situation, please don't bother me again with this.

HecateWhoopass Tue 19-Feb-13 08:29:34

or you could have a nice little border with some flowers in or something.

HollyBerryBush Tue 19-Feb-13 08:31:47

There is nothing to stop you putting a fence (ie 1 inch) within your own boundary. Which is what you should have done in the first place. You certainly have no right to be block paving 6 inches into their land.

ThatVikRinA22 Tue 19-Feb-13 09:15:40

the point is that
A) its debatable as to whether it is their land
B) they put the fence up!!!!!! NOT me. i have gone up to the fence they erected!

dickheads.

they have left a note on the wall for the builders - not even the courtesy to speak to me!! (but i went round last night - thought one of us should be the grown up!)

i wont tell you what the builders said about the note....grin

he wants me to pay for a corner post now - the builders have already bought the fencing so its tough. If he had asked me earlier id have done it.

he is welcome to his 6 inches. he clearly needs it! and im not about to start world war 3 over something so petty.

CSIJanner Tue 19-Feb-13 09:56:08

Quickly do a check online with land registry as to where your boundaries lie - then you know where you stand!

www.land-reg.co.uk/land_registry_online.aspx

quoteunquote Tue 19-Feb-13 10:30:55

here an idea of how hard it can be to determine where a boundary is

the land registry can only give you an idea, certainly to be accurate requires a detailed survey, once you get into dispute your house is unsaleable until resolved,

subjecttocontract wrote:
1. The plan you are relying on is almost certainly not going to be suitable to take measurements from.

If the plans have dimensions then surely these are OK to use ?

Not necessarily. Assuming you are referring to figured dimensions, as opposed to scaling off the plan, any one or more of the following (as well as other things) may apply:

(a) The measurements may not have been taken accurately. The effect will be different according to exactly what was measured.

(b) A plan showing figured dimensions and insufficient fixed points only tells part of the story. To take a simple example to emphasise the point: Imagine a large field with a building right in the middle of it. The intention is to sell a four sided plot of land with the opposite sides being of equal length and one of the boundaries is to be one of the walls of the building. A plan is drawn showing only the building and the plot. The dimensions of each side of the plot are indicated, but there is no further information. You may think you know where the land is, but you only know where one side is, because there are an infinite number of positions in which the other three sides can be placed. What you need to know is the angles or the precise position of the corners opposite the wall by showing their distance from a fixed point such as the corner of the field.

We can take this a stage further. Let's assume that a plan was drawn up showing everything that was needed so that a surveyor with the plan in his hand can accurately plot the land on the ground. A house is built in the middle of the plot, but when fences are put up on the three open sides they are not put up in the correct position, but each one is of the length shown on the plan. This leaves us with a nicely drawn plan and three boundaries that do not correspond with the plan. We fast forward fifty years. There is a boundary dispute. A surveyor measures up and finds the discrepancy. By this time the history is forgotten. What is not known is whether the fences were put up and then the plot inaccurately measured, or the plot measured and then the fences inaccurately sited. The plan now has limited value in determining the position of the fenced boundaries mainly because after the lapse of time the fences have come to represent the boundaries. Of course if the fences had been erected in the correct position the plan would be of immense value as it would confirm that the fences were in the right place. The plan would also have been of value fifty years ago if a surveyor had been on site to supervise the positioning of the fences.

(c) You may not know if the measurements were taken on the ground or in the air. The steeper the gradient of the land and the longer the distance measured, the more critical this is.

(d) Many conveyance plans are "as we meant to build it" and not "as we in fact built it".

(e) If your land is registered it is the title plan that shows what you own and these rarely have figured dimensions on them. Any plan attached to a pre-registration deed is no longer part of the title to your land. The register is the title and replaces the "old deeds". Measuring from the figured dimensions of a pre-registration deed is a futile exercise. In fact, if a plan included in the deeds submitted with an application for first registration does not quite coincide with the OS plan the LR "corrects" the position and registers the property according to the OS plan, and not the plan on the deeds.

subjecttocontract wrote:
2. You probably don't know how to measure land properly.

So, how would you go about measuring land 'properly' ?

No idea as I am not a surveyor. I am not saying that a non-professional cannot measure his property and come up with the correct figures, especially if the land is flat. However, I doubt a person can take measurements in the air without at least some training.

subjecttocontract wrote:
3. If you start to measure your boundaries you will start to believe things you have no business believing, for example that you know exactly where your boundaries are.

Not necessarily if its done properly, with care and accuracy then most people should be able to manage it.

The sort of thing that can happen is this:

(a) You are scaling from a plan that is a copy and copies are rarely to scale.

(b) The approximate scale is 1:1250 and this is difficult to scale from accurately.

(c) The distances you scale from the plan are distances in the air, but you assume that they are distances on the ground.

(d) You want to measure from the back of the house to the rear fence. You do not realise that the rear of the house has been extended and that the extension is not shown on the plan you have scaled from.

(e) If you want your garden to be longer you may, without necessarily intending to deceive, measure it longer. You will make little allowances that will be in your favour.

You can see how easy it is to come to believe something you should not believe. And all the measuring may be a waste of time because even if your measurements are accurate, the boundary may have moved anyway!

subjecttocontract wrote:
6. Disputes over boundaries enrich lawyers and surveyors - you don't want to do that as they are already rich enough.

.....and a satisfactory ending to a dispute makes you feel really good and might well be worth the toil & trouble.

In my experience in practice boundary disputes rarely end satisfactorily. They are most likely to end satisfactorily if the encroachment is recent and substantial. The problem that lawyers have with boundary disputes is that there is little law in them and few conclusive documents to rely on. The problem with boundary disputes that surveyors have is that they are usually being asked to determine the position of a line without sufficient information.

BikerBear Tue 19-Feb-13 11:39:41

I agree the first place to start is with the land registry to check what information they have on the boundary.
As 'quoteunquote' states there is probably no definitive way to tell for certain as there are a number of factors to consider, such as age of the property and when the plans were drawn etc.
However, having said that if the information is as vague as it sounds it might be then you have the situation that presumably HIS information is just as vague (presuming he bothered to check at all).
In which case could the fact that the boundaries cannot be adequately established, be pointed out to him and a compromise reached.
IE your block paving stops, either halfway between the disputed area or just short of it and you either erect your own fence or, as one of the posts suggests gravel the strip (which would aid drainage in any case) and place pots on it which, in the event the neighbor does decide to move the fence, can be easily moved. This might be the better option as block paving needs to be edged to contain the blocks and paving right up to edge at this stage may mean you have to have that edge re-laid if it does need to be moved.
As you say any man who fights that hard for 6 inches definitely feels he has something to prove. (even if it is only to prove him right to his wife). blush
Hope you get it resolved and try not to let it worry you. smile

PeppermintPasty Tue 19-Feb-13 11:57:04

quoteunquote has it I'm afraid. I would emphasise the point that the Land Reg will always IME shy away from giving a ruling on boundaries. They will say, rightly, that their plans are for illustrative purposes only and will bounce any legal questions back to a lawyer.

One thing I would say about pre registration plans, and I think this is different to what quoteunquote is saying, I have found them to be very very useful indeed as indicators of the intention of the builder or developer. In the pre-litigation stages at least, they can be a good negotiating tool ie if you have a sympathetic plan that proves your argument, that will weigh quite heavily in any negotiations.

As for boundary litigation, in my world (property lawyer), these two words should never ever go together! Litigation is bad enough (and I was a litigation lawyer for 15 years too), but legal action over a boundary is, IMO, the worst litigation of all, money/health/sanity draining and rarely with a satisfactory outcome.

Where does that leave you Vicar? If you haven't already, I would put the onus back on him to prove the 6 inches. How does he know, and where is the evidence, that it is his?

Having said all that, I appreciate that you can't be arsed, and actually, it may be non-legal, but to be honest I think that's the best approach wink There's a certain kind of weirdo/loser/saddo person who obsesses over inches <ahem> and it could be in danger of sapping all your energy.

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 12:25:14

Can you tell him you will get the block paving removed if he guarantees he will move the fence on the same day so you are not left with a gap?

If he refuses say that unfortunately you can't then have the paving removed but will be happy to allow him to hire someone to remove it if and when he moves his fence?

HansieMom Tue 19-Feb-13 15:33:07

You can have a survey done, property lines marked, and then you KNOW.

SandyChick Tue 19-Feb-13 19:41:51

If you call land registry they will send (if you pay) for a scaled drawing which will tell you exactly where the boundary should be. You'll need a scale ruler. There is nothing to say that the boundary is exactly in-between your 2 houses (2.5 brick from each house etc). Mine isn't.

I called land registry when our neighbours where disputing our fence. The lady on the phone was really helpful and measure the plans for me over the phone (even though she said she shouldn't really). She also said tho that when it come to replacing an existing fence that they class the one coming down as the boundary give or take.

Your neighbour can't make you move your block paving. Tell him that you believe the boundary to be where the fence is etc. If he disputes this then can he please provide the appropriate evidence ie the scaled drawings that land registry hold - obviously said in the nicest possible way wink

ThatVikRinA22 Tue 19-Feb-13 20:05:11

you know though i just cant be bothered to argue - there was no fence there at all before he erected it - a few months ago. i just presumed he put his own bloody fence up where he thought his was - now he says he didnt (which begs the question - WHY!!!??? - he hasnt got a bloody clue where his house ends and mine starts. ive gone alone and looked at all the other houses and they have the fence where he says it should be so i dont see the problem in letting him have his 6 inches - anyway my builders have taken up the block paving now but i do have a ridiculous gap which i will need to fill with aggregate of some sort until he decides to move his fence.
which will be never probably.
dickheads.
i dont mind him moving it - but he assumed his boundary was where i assumed it was - so i dont get the snotty note taped to the wall or the weirdness.

move the fence. job done.
wonder how long it will take him....fence is a bloody mess anyway - not even in straight line and one panel missing completely - i think they are bonkers.

Cubtrouble Tue 19-Feb-13 22:17:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MammaTJ Tue 19-Feb-13 22:43:55

<Totally off topic>

Are you back at work now then Vicar?

ThatVikRinA22 Tue 19-Feb-13 23:07:43

<equally off topic>
not yet mamma but i think ill be back soon - got another occy health appt in 2 weeks - thats when i lay out what i need to return and they yay or nay it.

if its a nay ill be leaving. ive got 3 weeks left on my sick note.

ive applied for other jobs (out of police) just in case. had a follow up appt for my hernia today and have another in 3 months to discuss surgery.

the depression is a bit odd and while ive been fine the last few weeks today i felt low and weepy....im not looking forward to going back in truth. i dont think i deal with stress terribly well in this capacity - still dealing with DS, DD, everything else and cant do that and work 6 days a week, 56+ hours a week alone and feeling in danger all the time - its just not worth it. so im not back yet and it very much depends on how im received back as to whether ill be staying or not.

Schmedz Tue 19-Feb-13 23:14:26

Feeling your pain! What is it that makes people so unreasonable?!

MammaTJ Tue 19-Feb-13 23:51:11

It isn't worth it for the sake of your health. Although I will be sad to think of someone with the compassion you clearly have leaving that career. I could have done with you turning up at my door a few times when I have had to call 999.

ThatVikRinA22 Wed 20-Feb-13 00:02:30

thanks mamma - im not completely ruling out staying if my return goes ok, and if i can go part time without resentment from everyone else, but im anxious about going back. the shifts kill me, and while i always seem calm and unflappable, im an anxiety ridden mess on the inside. im not sure i can overcome that. the job is dangerous. more so now with less of us as often there is no back up at jobs that could easily go tits up....

and im totally off the point now!

WafflyVersatile Wed 20-Feb-13 00:16:00

Maybe they built half the fence then thought they'd made a mistake over the boundary and felt foolish but also too dispirited/lazy to have to start again. then you come along with your fancy gardeners and your 'oooh get you' blocked paving and they have seen this as you trying to take advantage of their mistake!!! And making fools of them for it. shock

Put your own fence up at the edge of your paving and send them a bill for taking up the excess block paving? Tell them first and explain this will save them time and money as much easier for them than having to remove and reinstall half a fence and buy and install the remaining half a fence. And it will look nicer because it will have been done by competent professionals and it will be finished.

ThatVikRinA22 Wed 20-Feb-13 00:19:05

if only waffly - he is the type who starts a job then cant finish it. its not even remotely straight and the posts stick up further than the fence - all looks very amateurish and daft. the reason he left it half done was he got fed up and wandered off.....

he did the same at the back. we ve had to finish the job he started. he is friendly but dim and she has a face like a smacked arse. so i avoid where ever possible.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 21-Feb-13 13:53:01

oh my fucking GOD!!!!! ive just made an idiot of myself and burst into tears in the garden - the neighbours at the other side are at it now!

i wanted to take some ancient fence posts down - its my fence on my boundary - but asked the neighbours at that side out of courtesy - and they said no.

so i left them but it meant my drive had to come in a full bricks width and the builders had to fill that bit with gravel - the drive has drainage in it - and now those neighbours are saying that because we havent gone right up to their paving slabs (which we would have had they let us take the fence posts out) that our drive was supporting their drive and now their drive might get water under it from our gulley with pebbles in - ive just got the builder back to try and explain to them that its not for drainage its just because they wouldnt let us take the fence posts out (no fence!! just posts there!!!!) they couldnt butt our drive up to theirs.....

ive just lost my rag completely and burst into tears. The poor builder....
he says i live next door to dick heads on boths sides.

he has a point.

adeucalione Thu 21-Feb-13 14:06:24

You sound like a lovely, considerate neighbour vicar and you are indeed living next door to two sets of absolute idiots.

Regarding the first neighbour - as others have said, finish your drive where he thinks the boundary is and erect your own fence, leaving his looking slightly ridiculous and redundant.

Regarding the second neighbour - explain again that the drive is finished in the only way it could be finished given that they wouldn't let you remove the fence posts, and suggest that if they are not happy with it they pay the builder to remove the posts and rectify the problem (bet they don't).

But don't cry - you are in a stressful situation due to the bonkers behaviour of utter fools, but they are actually fools, which is worse.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 21-Feb-13 14:24:54

thank you, i feel so so fed up now. the garden was a complete eyesore before we did this. we have spent 10k on making it lovely front and back.

and we have proper drainage in the drive - the gulley isnt for drainage - its because they wouldnt let us move the fucking eyesore fence posts! i just cannot win. no matter what i do i just cant win.

they are saying it needs concreting or their drive might move - well - their drive probably will but not because of mine - theirs is like cracked teeth - ancient paving slabs from 1964 - it probably will let water in but not from mine!
the stupid thing is that if they had let us take the posts up our drive would have butted up to theirs - and they didnt want that either! i cant win. im so deflated and fed up - i feel like putting the sodding house on the market and moving into the middle of nowhere. with no sodding idiots around me

angry

i just lost it. i aksed what i could have done -given that they didnt want the fence posts taking up.

i suggested a fence with gravel boards to butt up to their drive - i would pay - but no - dont want that either.

so they dont want a fence
they dont want my drive to touch theirs because of the fence posts
but they want my drive to butt up to theirs to hold theirs in place.

fucking hell. what do people want! im surrounded by fools. i swear im going to spontaneously combust at this rate.

ophelia275 Thu 21-Feb-13 14:31:17

Why don't you just put a fence or wall up on your side (and leave them the 6 inches) and just let them get on with whatever they want to do with their side? I don't see why their garden is your problem in any way and by being overly accommodating they are just going to keep being difficult. I would just put up my own fence on my side, let them keep their 6 inches and just tell them they can deal with their own fence issues. It isn't your problem. You are responsible only for your own garden and you shouldn't be paying for theirs too!

BlatantLies Thu 21-Feb-13 14:38:52

I am not surprised you feel so despondent. They sound awful.

I am glad your builder is supportive.

thanks. wine brew

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Thu 21-Feb-13 15:01:00

At the back, yes put your own nice fence up, put in a seat or pergola? or erect a trellis and grow a leafy plant up it to block out the neighbours cover the gap. at the front, you have offered two solutions neither suited so ignore them now. Its your boundary you can do what you like. its up to them to prove anything you have done is the cause of any future issues for their drive. Could the builders talk to them and explain the drainage stuff? sympathy our dickhead neighbours sound similar. fence blew down DH said he would do new one if they shared cost as they couldnt agree whose it was he spent all day doing a neat job while she of the smacked ares faced variety put her washing out and watched, he returned home when DH on the last panel and started looking down the line saying its not straight and its 1.5cm too much on our side. I lost it and sarcastically said 'oh thanks Dh for putting fence up while I did nowt etc etc' he told me to shut it! I refuse to speak to the wanker now.

neighbours are the pits.

my neighbour said he'd sooner rescue the taliban before he rescued my children out of my burning house.

alemci Thu 21-Feb-13 15:19:51

to me it seems they should have got the fence in the right place in the first place otherwise why bother. very odd behaviour. You could check the deeds but I wouldn't uproot your paving.

reallytrulydisgusting Thu 21-Feb-13 15:24:23

"my neighbour said he'd sooner rescue the taliban before he rescued my children out of my burning house."

shock what a charmer. You could report him to the police for suspected Taliban connections? wink

OP - nothing to suggest but lots of sympathy.

CheerfulYank Thu 21-Feb-13 15:34:47

I like your builder!

Sorry this is happening Vicar. sad

AgathaF Thu 21-Feb-13 15:53:53

With neighbour No1 - can you put up your own fence, slightly higher than his, leaving the 6" gap. He can then do what the fuck he wants with it in his own time without it affecting you.

With neighbour No2 - could you point out that you could have chosen to have your whole driveway gravelled (as many, many people do) and it wouldn't have affected his drive. His driveway shouldn't be so poorly constructed as to depend on your driveway to support it.

Neighbours are a pain in the arse, I find. I am fully in favour of 6ft high prickly hedgeing wherever it is practically possible.

Tossers. Understand that it is jealousy on their part and try to rise above it, whilst admiring your lovely new garden. There is no law that says you have to be on speaking terms with them.

Flisspaps Thu 21-Feb-13 16:05:08

If the boundary for wankyneighbour2 is yours, and they don't want a fence, can you not just put a fence up anyway?

Bastards.

Their drive not being able to support itself isn't your problem, so fuck 'em.

Normally I'd not be so horrible, but they're being fuckety (my auto correct has changed that from fuckers!)

The woman next door to us is forever bastarding about with the fence. It's a patchwork of battered mismatched fence panels. She's responsible for that boundary, so there is nothing we can do about it.

Lora1982 Thu 21-Feb-13 16:13:04

Neighbour number two can piss off your fence posts your decision to remove them... I wouldnt of gone to check with them idof just done it. What a pair of twatty neighbours.

HecateWhoopass Thu 21-Feb-13 16:19:41

"we have spent 10k on making it lovely front and back.2

Maybe this is why they are being bastards.

Jealousy.

some people can't stand to see others having anything nice and want to do anything they can to take it away from them.

Grockle Thu 21-Feb-13 16:30:44

Bloody hell, vicar. I have no advice but I have stupid, unpleasant neighbours who like to make a fuss about everything - it's a nightmare & makes life much more difficult than it needs to be (& I also have long term health problems & associated depression). Hope this all settles. Your builder is right. Look after yourself & try not to let it get to you

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 21-Feb-13 20:08:49

well i have phoned the builder and asked him to concrete it as they wanted - if i dont and their drive does move (which is will eventually as its cracked and already sunken in places before i touched mine) they will just blame me.

what has pissed me off more than anything is that i could have just taken out those twatty old fence posts and said nothing to them because its my boundary - but hey - i thought i would try and do the right thing and ask even though it wasnt their decision.

and now they realise that they got that wrong they want me to put it right - but i cant move my block paving now - its done - finished - and it finishes right where it had to because they wouldnt let me move those sodding fence posts.

neighbour 1 ive seen tonight and told him the fence is all his to move whenever. The paving has been taken up so im just waiting for him to move it now. (which he wont)
neighbour 2 im just seething about - why wait until the builders went to decide they made a mistake about the fence posts? its tough shit now and ive lost a bit of drive because of it! but im being expected to pay now so their drive doesnt move!!?!!!?!!! i asked today how their drive is my responsibility? no answer. even the builder tried to say that their drive is not my problem - what was i meant to do? never replace my drive because it holds theirs up?

im beyond livid. im beyond wound up. they know im not well and im off work. i NEVER lose my temper - but i did today. i lost my rag.

ive done everything i can to please both neighbours and its still not helped - and i think im spelling neighbours wrong....

i dont want to live on a street where no one speaks to anyone else but i feel like erecting a whacking 6 foot fence right around my house and telling them all to fuck the fuck off and when they get their to fuck a bit more for good measure.

Snowsquonk Thu 21-Feb-13 20:27:39

Feeling your pain Vicar I also live next door to twunts.....

Regarding the fenceposts - if they are on your land, and are yours (as in, if there was a fence there it would be your fence) you don't need their permissiont to take the posts out - I completely understand why you asked them but if it's not their fence and not on their land - you can do as you please and I would ask the builder to take them out or angle grind them off at ground level then cement round/over them.

My neighbours bought their house in the knowledge that we had a tree between our drive and theirs. They waited until we went out for the day then cut the tree back to the boundary on their side - yes, I know they can legally do so, but had they ASKED first I could have explained that I was waiting for the leaves to fall and then had plans to have the tree cut right back because I knew it was overgrown. Because they hacked it about, we had no choice but to have it taken out completely - they wanted it gone because of getting leaves on their cars.....I kid you not. As soon as I've saved enough, I'm getting a rowan tree put in it's place - small, won't overhang their drive, will have lovely berries to attract the birds which will shit all over their cars instead. Revenge.

AgathaF Thu 21-Feb-13 20:30:19

Oh yes. Shrubs, trees and prickly bushes. Lovely!

ReluctantMother Thu 21-Feb-13 20:37:59

Just tell them all to eff off.

Lottikins Thu 21-Feb-13 20:59:48

YABU
You can't block pave right up to the boundary you need to have some sort of soak away to cope with the water that runs off your blockpaving- not just klet it flood onto your neighbours property!!!
That is why you now require planning consent for blockpaving a drive- exactly bvecause of this drainage issue.Your neighbour is being very kind in moving the fence I would have been telling you you have to bring the edge of the paving in a bit!!!

Lottie RTFT will you...

Lottikins Thu 21-Feb-13 21:16:47

umm I have read the thread thankyou dear!
From what I can understand she * constructed the blockpaving right up to the fence , which is not allowed

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 21-Feb-13 22:52:06

no lottie you arent understanding the issue at all.

neighbour 1 erected a fence then chose the day i had block paving done to tell me he erected it in the wrong place and would now like to move it. fine. ive taken up the paving and he can move it. (he wont though. its been there for months and months)

neighbour 2 - i have a proper drainage system in the drive - all done properly with a 10yr guarantee - but tehy wanted the soakaway - they wouldnt allow me to take my fence posts out - so we didnt and put a small gulley between our drives.
now they dont want the gulley between the drives and have decided they made a mistake because our drive was holding their drive up so now they want me to concrete right up to their drive and get rid of the soakaway.

bastards. make your fucking mind up. no? oh ok then i will just keep paying for your fucking adjustments to my drive on my land shall i?

thats the issue lottie- not what you are saying.

Grockle Thu 21-Feb-13 23:03:27

I don't understand people who make things so bloody difficult. Life is hard enough without deliberately being a total pita.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 21-Feb-13 23:08:55

the fact is that i have done exactly what both sets of neighbors wanted - to the letter.

but now they have decided they dont want that anymore so i am supposed to pay for the adjustments that have now decided they want. to my drive. my land. my boundary. my fence. all after the work is finished because now they have "had chance to think about it" hmm

and like a fucking idiot im going to do it, because its just not worth the hassle.
and i will not speak to them again. bollocks to them.
i could just put up a fence. its my land. my boundary. but they dont want that either. they want their cake and frigging eat it while i pay for it all.

im so so so so angry

Grockle Thu 21-Feb-13 23:16:55

You have every right to be angry. I'd say to not ask them any more & not to change anything at your expense but I know it's easier to just do it & avoid the aggro. So sorry it's all turned into a bit of a nightmare when all you were doing was trying to be considerate.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 21-Feb-13 23:25:59

thanks grockle

i might yet put up some 6ft fence panels at least half way down the drive (as others have done on the street) and sod them - i wont tell them, and then put some posts and chain the rest of the way so we can both get in and out of our cars. its my boundary. no more mr nice guy. ive seen where that gets me.

Grockle Thu 21-Feb-13 23:34:59

I think that's perfectly fair. I keep looking at barbed wire & prickly bushes for our boundary but have resisted temptation.

I was debating taking up some of my block paving but I daren't now!

Do whatever makes you feel happy & sod them... they're clearly unreasonable & a bit bonkers, so put yourself first. No more Mr Nice Guy indeed.

donnasummer Thu 21-Feb-13 23:51:46

just check the height of your fence carefully if you do go for a big one, anythin over a certain height requires planning permission (and I know this because MY neighbours went out with a tape measure the day after I replaced our chicken wire boundary with a lovely solid fence. The land is flat is flat and then slopes down and the fence follows the slope, to accomodate the slope meant that at one point it was 1.5 inches longer than the required height from top to bottom, even though the top of the fence was following the downhill slope iyswim. They reported me and I had to get retrospective planning permission at the cost of £150).

CleopatrasAsp Fri 22-Feb-13 01:03:35

donnasummer, some people are just bloody pathetic.

vicar I think you've been too nice actually, the problem with people like this is that they start pushing boundaries - pardon the terrible pun grin - and before you know it you are running every arseing thing possible past them for their approval. Sometimes, when you say 'no' people are less inclined to hassle you in the future, they tend to bank on 'nice' people backing down in order not to cause a fuss. I think that for neighbour one I would have asked them to prove the boundary or shut the fuck up (though I would have said this in a more pleasant way obviously). Neighbour two I wouldn't have consulted at all and would just have done what I was legally allowed to do in the first place and removed the post - but hindsight is a wonderful thing I suppose!

AgathaF Fri 22-Feb-13 08:21:42

vicar you need to stop accommodating them. They won't thank you for it, they won't be happy with it, so what's the point?

They'll get over it in their own time.

Still think big prickly bushes though grin

undercoverhousewife Fri 22-Feb-13 08:34:31

Poor you, Vicar. It will pass though. In the grand scheme of things, please try not to let these issues bother you (easier said than done). Do your best to keep everyone happy - as you have done - then enjoy your lovely new garden and drive.

You did the right thing with neighbour 1 - plans on deeds of boundaries are only guides rather than definitive, and a half way point between the two houses sounds like it is indeed the correct boundary position. Chuck some pretty flowers in the 6 inch gap if soil, otherwise a nice strip of gravel.

As for neighbour 2, I would ignore them. It's a shame you asked them about the fence posts rather than inform them you would be lifting them but that's spilt milk now. They are being unreasonable. Be polite to them but non committal and leave it however you want it. There is no such thing as a legal right to support for your drive.

Coconutty Fri 22-Feb-13 08:45:31

Get some razor wire, broken glass and wire wool and put it all along neighbour 1s fence. That's him sorted.

Then offer your colleagues use of your front garden to house their police dogs, in giant kennels. Yes, they may be noisy and smelly but think what a talking point it will be for your neighbours. They will be begging you for a gravel gulley before the week is out.

Wankers.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Fri 22-Feb-13 08:48:10

Oh op! Just read this and feel your pain sad

You need new neighbours!

Some people can never be happy and so I think you need to stop trying to make them happy. If they don't like it, they can fix it!!

PessaryPam Fri 22-Feb-13 08:59:05

vicar just say you can't afford it now you have done what they first requested. Ask them to pay for further alterations. They will then decide it's not that important. If that fails go for some good old fashioned police harassment!

BlatantLies Fri 22-Feb-13 09:25:18

If you do put up a fence don't forget to paint 'their' side bright orange, or zebra, or purple with green spots or whatever takes your fancy...... smile

At the very least let them have the unattractive 'back' side of the fence.

Catchingmockingbirds Fri 22-Feb-13 09:29:46

Stick your fence up and ignore them, they'll moan no matter what you do so you may aswell just do what you want.

ophelia275 Fri 22-Feb-13 09:42:28

I think you are making it worse for yourself by worrying so much about being nice to your neighbours. I personally would refuse to pay for any corrections to things on my own land as it is not your fault they changed their mind. I don't think you will have an easier life or be friends with your neighbours if you make endless changes for them at your cost. They will just think you are a pushover and expect you to do more and more and treat you like rubbish. I think you should be really really wary of that as in the long run, doing what they want will just cause you more stress than being firm and saying "no" now. It is not like you are being unreasonable. Just make sure you are legally in the right and then say if they want x or y on their land then they can pay for it themselves.

maddening Fri 22-Feb-13 10:04:43

I would just do whatever you want - what's the point in pandering to fuckwits?

PeppermintPasty Fri 22-Feb-13 10:06:14

If you came to me for legal advice wrt shittyneighbour2 I would advise you to do nothing to accommodate them as they are in the wrong. Your plans for your drive are well thought out and well executed, from what you've said on here. I've never heard such a load of bollocks about one drive supporting another. If they think that, they will have to spend some money on a surveyor to back up their spurious argument.

Tell him that's fine but he'll have to pay builders of your choice.

What a total twat.

Oh I've missed pages. Can you move and let some other poor sod live next door to the fuckers.

comingintomyown Fri 22-Feb-13 10:29:06

Neighbour 1 : Erect your own fence , to your own (legal) specification as it sounds like his will be an eyesore either way

Neighbour 2 : Completely ignore

What a pair of fuckers you have the misfortune to live next door to but really, stop worrying and dont spend a penny more that isnt for your benefit

undercoverhousewife Fri 22-Feb-13 10:38:39

Peppermint makes a good point. Say to Neighbour 2 that you have listened to their concerns and don't quite understand (you don't!) and can they please provide you with a surveyor's opinion so you can consider the matter properly. They will never get one and you have shown willing.

Don't antagonise either side btw It's not worth it. But also, I agree about not pandering to them as both sets of neighbours seem to be unreasonable and will demand more and more. Be civil, polite and do your own sweet thing :-) You sound lovely.

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 22-Feb-13 12:11:19

actually peppermint thats a good idea - Neighbour 2 reckons he is a solicitor but is also an actor (!!???) and also does surveys for houses etc etc and is a complete and utter know it all. Reckons he got his grandson out of police custody with a nod and a wink because he 'knows people' - i think he is a complete fantasist.

i might just ask them for a surveyors report to substantiate their claim that my drive is going to cause damage to theirs - and when they are next out im going to take photos of their drive - its broken and sunken and cracked - as ours was before the makeover as they were built at the same time in 1964. Their drive is knackered already and was long before i moved here and long before we did this work.

My builder is really loathe to do anything more since we have accommodated their wishes in the first place.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Fri 22-Feb-13 16:30:50

That sounds like an excellent plan!

Coconutty Fri 22-Feb-13 16:47:31

Had a better idea, can't you go around in your uniform and take notes on what he's saying?

WhatKindofFool Fri 22-Feb-13 17:02:06

What magichouse says.

ThatVikRinA22 Sat 23-Feb-13 12:37:35

well ive had the landscapers back today - im going to stick a 6ft fence up and bollocks to them - not having it all the way down so they can still get in and out of their car - but others have done the same on the street, so going to do it and be damned. That way we get privacy from both sets of fuckwits

(going to sort the stupid half fence at the other side too. then im going to shut my door and hide. i may well be off their xmas card list. )

Grockle Sat 23-Feb-13 16:53:21

Good for you Vicar. I think you're doing the right thing. I hope it all looks lovely.

Make sure you bolt the door & open some wine.

Flisspaps Sun 24-Feb-13 01:07:31

Go Vicar!

Fuck 'em!

ZebraOwl Sun 24-Feb-13 01:29:18

Maybe you should make it an electric fence...

HermioneHatesHoovering Sun 24-Feb-13 02:13:38

Make sure when you take photos of the drive that they have the date stamped on them!

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