To think it really wasn't necessary for Myleene Klass to mention the 'Breastapo'?

(160 Posts)
UnknownGnome Mon 18-Feb-13 17:01:46

I was watching Lorraine this morning during which there was a feature which showed Myleene Klass visiting a third world country promoting the benefits of breastfeeding and raising awareness of the goodness of breastmilk, particularly colostrum. Formula is often watered down, or made with unclean water, therefore not the best option for many women, but they are not always aware of this.

Cut to Myleene in the studio with Kate Garraway and she is, again, talking about the benefits of breastfeeding but qualifies this by saying she is by no means a member of the 'breastapo'. Was this completely necessary? Surely it's ok to talk about the benefits of breastfeeding without making a negative comment about those who promote it?

Just realised that I haven't posed this as an AIBU, so, AIBU to think this was an unnecessary and unhelpful comment?

Sugarice Mon 18-Feb-13 17:03:14

Myleene Klass gets right on my tits.

Cannot stand her, she's bloody everywhere!

havingamadmoment Mon 18-Feb-13 17:03:48

I think it was simply her saying she wasnt pushing breastfeeding at ALL costs.
I dont think it was particularly unhelpful just a random comment.

MorrisZapp Mon 18-Feb-13 17:04:49

Yabu

valiumredhead Mon 18-Feb-13 17:06:22

YABU and that pains me as I loathe MK.

fromparistoberlin Mon 18-Feb-13 17:07:40

"Myleene Klass visiting a third world country promoting the benefits of breastfeeding and raising awareness of the goodness of breastmilk, particularly colostrum.

WHY? the third world have not even bloody heard of her, sheesh

could noone else do this? Like the "3rd world" are going to fucking know its Myleene

sheesh

from I believe she does this as part of her work for Save The Children, not because she's slightly famous.

I'm disappointed, I always thought she seemed quite nice but that's a nasty offensive term. As is 'breastfeeding Nazis'. Shame on her.

Yanbu purely for the fact that everything that comes out if her mouth is totally unnecessary. What did mothers do before she came along with her expert opinions 5 seconds after conceiving her 1st child.

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 18-Feb-13 17:13:58

Frankly if an organisation picks my Myleene Klass as their face they'll automatically lose my vote/attention.

She could put me off oxygen, so invalid do I find her opinion on anything.

HumphreyCobbler Mon 18-Feb-13 17:15:14

I think it was an unhelpful comment too OP.

kalidanger Mon 18-Feb-13 17:20:28

I'd assume she just thinks 'breastapo' is some terribly clever and on-trend coinage so she's being hip.

YANBU.

Not sure how anyone can think using a word derived from Gestapo is appropriate. There are far better ways of making the same point.

UnknownGnome Mon 18-Feb-13 17:23:08

Not many Myleene fans in the house! smile

I really dislike the terms Breastapo and bf nazi and I think it's unhelpful for her to use them. It's possible to talk about the benefits of breastfeeding without ramming it down people's throats.

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Feb-13 17:28:57

Is it possible that she's read MN and other internet forums where the 'Breastapo' are very much alive and kicking?

You know the type who jump into threads and stomp all over anyone who dares to declare breastfeeding wasn't for them?

If that's the case, she probably just wants to distance herself from that type of person.

twitchycurtains Mon 18-Feb-13 17:30:05

YABU, I thought she was fine, don't get the Myleene hate, she always comes across as pro women so really don't get the nasty comments. Also there are a lot of women who equate being pro bf to I will ram my opinions down your throat, I am better than you for choosing to bf etc etc- just look at some of the threads on bf/ff on here.

UnknownGnome Mon 18-Feb-13 17:35:37

But this was nothing to do with ramming anything down anyone's throats. She was talking of the benefits of breastfeeding, particularly for women in developing countries. No one would dispute that breastmilk is more beneficial to babies than formula that has had to be watered down or made with dirty water. It's got nothing to do with being in the 'Breastapo'.

Maybe I'm overthinking it.

I couldn't care less who said it, it is inappropriate to say that on national TV. Or, indeed, at all really.

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Feb-13 17:38:45

I think she was just making it clear that she's not one of these nasty, militant pro breast feeders who like to make women feel bad about themselves.

I know it had nothing to do with the interview, but by the sound of it she just wanted to make that clear to everyone.

Which I think is fair enough.

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts Mon 18-Feb-13 17:38:53

She could put me off oxygen

HA! That's my new favourite phrase.

Oh, but didn't you know she's the first woman EVER to have a baby? hmm

reallyyummymummy Mon 18-Feb-13 17:41:46

Something about Myleene Klasse comes across as very disingenuous. This comment is also disingenuous.

FutTheShuckUp Mon 18-Feb-13 17:43:28

Shes a prick

I referred to the 'breastfeeding mafia' after being sneered at and cold-shouldered by La Lache mothers for mix feeding. (You can fuck off with your 'never runs out' comments.) Also encountered so many HCPs who went on and on about exclusively breastfeeding despite not having a clue how to assist you. With a traumatic birth, mild PND and utter ignorance from my HV I would have given up completely if it hadn't been for my mum and sheer bloodymindedness.
Think it was a light-hearted comment that you are taking too seriously because we are all so emotional about BF. As you can see from my post!

myrubberduck Mon 18-Feb-13 17:50:04

In my experience the people who object to terms like bf nazi and brestapo are not really upset about jokingly being compared to nazis; they just don't like being laughed at .

(I tend to go with titty Taliban myself.....)

minibmw2010 Mon 18-Feb-13 17:53:54

Her mother is from the Philippines so she has a connection plus she works for Save the Children. Two good reasons I would think to use her (not a fan by the way)

MrsKeithRichards Mon 18-Feb-13 17:54:54

She's fucking awful, glad I never seen her and Kate on the same screen, I might have exploded.

SashaSashays Mon 18-Feb-13 17:55:57

I think she was just trying to disassociate herself and the campaign from a certain aspect of the pro-bf groups.

Pretty much as Worra has said.

Lots of women will disengage with the kind of bf militants who I think the term Breastapo refers to and disassociation from those type of groups is a good thing for the campaign work she's doing.

It a bit like someone promoting healthy eating and making a similar pun type comment about not advocating an organic, wheat-free sugar-free everything free raw food diet.

Its pretty much 'I'm not one of the hardliners who everybody hates', it also, I imagine reduces people making contact and saying I couldn't breastfeed for xyz reasons which while they are something they are very emotional about (and rightly so) isn't of interest to the campaign.

Tailtwister Mon 18-Feb-13 17:58:40

YANBU, it's a very offensive term and trivialises the subject. It's a shame she couldn't discuss the issue without resorting to name calling.

JaquelineHyde Mon 18-Feb-13 17:58:50

YABU for watching Lorraine!

The rest I couldn't care about as it has come out of Myleen Klass' mouth.

SashaSashays Mon 18-Feb-13 17:59:07

Also not sure why everyone is so awful about her. Yes like all television personalities she has the capacity to be extremely irritating but if she posted her circumstances on mn (her husband suddenly abandoned her and their two children after years together) she would get oodles of sympathy and support.

mrsbunnylove Mon 18-Feb-13 18:00:10

i find her name so low that i cannot imagine a time when i would want to know anything she had said. myleene? klass? no.

incidentally, i don't feel like this about any other name. 'wugbaby jugsbucket' or 'chaz the chav' would be just fine. its just that particular name.

pictish Mon 18-Feb-13 18:01:45

What Worra said.

Maybe she read the pushy, self satisfied crap from breastfeeding bullies on here, and wanted it to be known she isn't like that. I fucking would.

mrsjay Mon 18-Feb-13 18:01:54

who gave her the power to comment on babies and children just because she managed to pop a few out hmm I didnt watch but heard something along the lines of now she is a mum herself she cares, so before she didnt care then, stupid moo she gets on my nerves,

mrsbunnylove Mon 18-Feb-13 18:02:28

perhaps it could be adapted.

'MyStep Class'; 'MyLiteracyClass'; 'MySppelinkKlass'.

elinor do you really think that implying someone is similar to the Gestapo is lighthearted? hmm

Yes, there are women who are militant about breastfeeding and will push their opinions onto others regardless. However they are a minority among mothers and a minority among peer supporters. I wonder how many women are put off seeking help with breastfeeding because of this kind of attitude?

rubberduck I can take being laughed at. I object to the terms 'Breastapo' and 'Breastfeeding Nazis' (actually I object to 'anything Nazis') because people do not stop to think what they are actually saying. A rude woman who is adamant that you must breastfeed is not equivalent to people who tortured and murdered millions. Anyone who uses this kind of phrase loses my respect because they are displaying their ignorance and prejudice.

mrsjay Mon 18-Feb-13 18:03:35

but when you think about it she is probably doesnt want to seem preachy still annoys me though

AbsintheMinded Mon 18-Feb-13 18:05:46

I get offended by this term as I think it minimises the holocaust.

A trip to one of the concentration camps should be her next port of call.

YANBU.

organiccarrotcake Mon 18-Feb-13 18:08:08

Actually no. Those of us "who object to terms like bf nazi and brestapo" object to anyone, no matter how offensive (and yes there are some people who will write or say truly offensive and ignorant stuff, no matter the subject but especially about infant feeding) being associated with some of the biggest mass murderers in history. Sure, some people can be absolutely horrible about infant feeding (FF or BF). But let's not for a moment think that it's ok to joke about what the Nazis did. Let's not for one second associate the worst evils of this world with people who are being stupid and offensive. Honestly, some things just really.aren't.funny.

Furthermore, why laugh at breastfeeding supporters? Sure, get angry at those people who say nasty things. They're being nasty, not supporting breastfeeding. Laugh at them if it makes you happy. But don't mix them up with actual breastfeeding supporters, who are almost always volunteers, trying to help people who want help where the NHS has failed.

Of course people will say things out of turn (in every area of parenting). Often they're trying to help, albeit not necessarily successfully. Sometimes they're being ignorant or just plain superior. Again, this happens in every area of parenting. We don't hear about nappy nazis or bed-stapos (ok so they don't scan so well!) so why are BFing supporters singled out this way, and more to the point, why are BFing supporters mixed in with people who are being nasty and superior?

Someone may have not been able to help you. You may have not wanted their comments. But they didn't take your family, starve them and then gas them.

NonnoMum Mon 18-Feb-13 18:10:31

It's a disgraceful term to use.
You've let yourself down, Mylene.

As usual organic has put it so much better than me!

myrubberduck Mon 18-Feb-13 18:23:53

So presumably all of you who are going all cats bum mouth about brestapo etc would be equally upset at any humorous reference to nazis . The 'don't mention the war' episode of fawlty towers must be beyond the pale than - not to mention 'allo 'allo...

Somehow I doubt it.

MorrisZapp Mon 18-Feb-13 18:29:55

Soup Nazi from Seinfeld?

rubberduck No, I don't find those programmes funny.

I'm a peer supporter. I trained to help women who want my help; I volunteer at my local support group where I work with any mother who asks for my help or advice. So that makes it ok for idiots to compare me to people responsible for the abomination that was the Holocaust? hmm

gordyslovesheep Mon 18-Feb-13 18:34:44

calling people Nazi and breastapo is in no way the same as Basil's in ability to cope with German guests though

and Allo Allo was never funny - on any level

hth

Ulysses Mon 18-Feb-13 18:36:02

But what are child/baby associations are made with the Nazis/Gestapo? The only ones I have heard of are to do with breastfeeding. Horrible terms.

MrsDimples Mon 18-Feb-13 18:38:57

YANBU

The press piece I read, about this, didn't even mention the underhand marketing techniques of the formula companies.

myrubberduck Mon 18-Feb-13 18:39:46

If you do not crease yourself laughing at the do t mention the war episode of FT then you have no sense of humour. At all.

All this hand wringing about the term brestapo is utterly disingenuous ; you lot just don't like to have the piss taken.

Any objections to feeding fundamentalist? Nipple Stasi ?

AngryGnome Mon 18-Feb-13 18:42:28

She is working to support a charity in highlighting an important issue. I have no problem with that. All charities use slebs to raise their profile.

Not keen on any terms that liken a focus on breastfeeding with genocide, but I would imagine that, like most people who use this analogy, she just didn't think about the implications of her language.

rubberduck Fawlty Towers was never funny imo, merely cringeworthy. But I know others have the same opinion about comedy that I enjoy.

I refuse to believe that you are not intelligent enough to understand why people are offended by being compared to Nazis.

pictish Mon 18-Feb-13 18:44:19

Oh get a grip - it's word play. I LOVE word play!!

It doesn't minimise the holocaust at all. You couldn't miniise the holocaust if you fucking tried.

DomesticCEO Mon 18-Feb-13 18:46:03

Joyful, no one is comparing peer supporters to to the Gestapo, or anyone who helps other bf. It's the minority (of which there are a sizeable number on here sadly) who go out of there way to make ff feel completely shit about their feeding choices (or even not choices but ended up that way anyway) and repeat endless (often dubious) stats about how your ff child will die before they reach adulthood because you selfishly choose to ff them.

Those are the people that MK is referring to, not you.

gordyslovesheep Mon 18-Feb-13 18:46:18

I dislike term like this because it trivialises genocide and the people responsible - the nazis didn't advise people to do something and tut if they didn't - i wish they had - i think its a lazy insult

DomesticCEO Mon 18-Feb-13 18:46:21

their way

myrubberduck Mon 18-Feb-13 18:47:28

Because I don't think for one second it has anything to to with anyone being genuinely offended by the term - more to do with not liking being laughed at.

SashaSashays Mon 18-Feb-13 18:48:13

Fawlty Towers is comedy gold. Just for your comments about that yabvvvvu.

I'm pretty sure even my gran, the product of two holocaust survivors would have smirked at Breastapo.

Chill the fuck out.

Yes Domestic, I know the type and they make my work much harder. Because so many new mothers seem to think that we're all the same, that anyone who is pro-BFing is anti-FF etc,

gordyslovesheep Mon 18-Feb-13 18:49:39

you find it funny - i dont like is - shasha no need to be rude - my dislike of the term doesn't effect you in any way

AbsintheMinded Mon 18-Feb-13 18:52:09

Oh right, I'm supposed to laugh at the term then Rubber
When it's meant as a put down and aggressively as well?

No and I didn't find it funny when a friend did a nazi salute to my German friends either. But he did so that makes it okay then hmm

I'm going to bow out now because I don't think anyone is going to change their position on this and I am tired of being told that I don't find something offensive when actually I do.

I have no problem with being laughed at but that's not what this is about. This is about idiots who are either too ignorant or too socially inept to understand why these terms are offensive; this is about vulnerable women being put off seeking help with feeding their infants for fear they will be hectored and lectured.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 18-Feb-13 18:55:45

I agree with Pictish and Worra.
There are many of us that recognise the type of breastfeeder she's talking about if we've been on MN for any length of time, though I prefer the term evangelical.
She was promoting BF in the third world wasn't she?.
I don't get the hate for her either, apart from the fact that she was the first person to give birth ever, she always comes across as rather nice.

fedupofnamechanging Mon 18-Feb-13 18:56:05

It's not minimising the holocaust - it's just saying that some people have a dictatorial and utterly immovable opinion on the subject of ff and treat women who ff as akin to giving their dc poison. Nothing wrong in wanting to distance herself from that type of person.

WoTmania Mon 18-Feb-13 18:57:09

YANBU - it's tarring all BF supporters with the same brush as the (very few IME) women who are positively anti-FF rather than pro-breastfeeding.

ElinorBellowed - if you were treated badly by other mothers at an LLL group and the Leader facilitating didn't pick up on please give feed back and tell them. I'm sure the Leader(s) present would be very upset to hear about your experience but won't know unless informed. The LLL group I attend has had fully FF mothers coming along for support with other issues and would definitely never cold-shoulder a mum who was mixed feeding.

Piemother Mon 18-Feb-13 18:57:34

I always think her real name is Melanie and she changed it to he more exotic grin

ceramicunicorn Mon 18-Feb-13 19:06:21

YABU.

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Feb-13 19:09:15

Oh come on it's just a bit of word play

What she means is she's not one of the breastfeeding mafia

But 'Breastafia' doesn't quite have the same ring to it....

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 18-Feb-13 19:10:11

Oh I don't know Worra.
Breastafia could catch on.

SashaSashays Mon 18-Feb-13 19:11:52

Breastafia sounds like an affliction.

DialsMavis Mon 18-Feb-13 19:21:19

Whatever word you wish to use to describe evangelical unsisterly intensely pro-breastfeeders, it will unfortunately not make them see how damaging they can be for breast feeding, the image of breast feeding (although obviously it shouldn't have an image, but it does) and to the mental health and feelings of women who have recently given birth/ struggled with BF. I obviously don't mean peer supporters in this and am very pro BF for myself.

myrubberduck Mon 18-Feb-13 19:21:27

Or a small Eastern European country?

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Feb-13 19:21:46

It sounds like a weird kind of nipple cream grin

pictish Mon 18-Feb-13 19:22:07

Personally, I think 'Breastapo' is genius! I wish I'd thought of it!

Midori1999 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:22:58

YANBU OP.

I haven't ever seen anyone on here trying to make people feel bad about their feeding choices. I've seen people post information about breast feeding, facts about breast feeding, but I've never seen anyone say or imply that someone is a shit Mother or even worse human being for not breast feeding, whatever their reason. Plus, most of those on this board that feel passionately about breast feeding are also peer supporters or BF counsellors, mostly who give their time for free to help women who want to BF to BF. that's not 'try and guilt women into breastfeeding' or 'make hem feel like shit' or anything like that BTW, it's support women in their own choices.

SashaSashays Mon 18-Feb-13 19:23:08

Or the new Baby Name of choice, no? Can imagine it knocking Clementine/Clemency right down in the mn polls.

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Feb-13 19:24:54

Midori, you really haven't seen it? shock

I must admit they tend to get short shrift, but they certainly do exist and do no good at all to their cause.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 18-Feb-13 19:25:09

Sorry Midori but you've clearly not read the same threads I have.

LondonNinja Mon 18-Feb-13 19:28:41

She irritates me but, frankly, the experiences I had in hospital and beyond would not be far from the terms breast feeding nazism or breastapo. I was seriously upset and made to feel like a failure as it was tricky for me to bf after having an elective c-sec (due to illness). My dd was early, my milk wasn't ready and she was small so tired easily from trying to feed. To this day, I feel traumatised by the attitudes, manhandling and pain (plus guilt) involve in trying to feed my girl. It was dreadful. Thank heaven for my midwife who gave me 'permission' to mix-feed after my dd lost weight...

The thing is, on MN you aren't allowed to be too positive about breast feeding or you'll be accused of being breastapo/mafia/bf-ing nazi.

What offends me is the fact that since this thread has started 190 babies have died, who wouldn't have done, if they were BF,because of a lack of information.

What MC point was that the part that shocked her was that many of the mothers that she visited, who had lost babies, didn't know that they can BF, they only knew about FF.

Which is pretty astounding.

Teaching these mothers about BF and giving them the confidence to BF, in this context, is very different to those described by "Dials" and others and MC wanted to avoid from being assocciated with them.

I haven't ever seen anyone on here trying to make people feel bad about their feeding choices

You've missed quite a lot of threads, then.

DialsMavis Mon 18-Feb-13 19:32:35

There are some fabulous posters on the BF/FF boards who go out of their way to offer support and advice. There are also some nasty, vindictive and self righteous individuals who jump on any thread about feeding a baby some milk to make people feel bad.

Midori1999 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:32:57

No, I really haven't seen it.

Maybe notadragon has a point...

DomesticCEO Mon 18-Feb-13 19:34:22

NotADragon, I've never noticed that - what I have noticed is the slavish repetition of every pro-bf article/stat/etc that proves that bf babies will become Olympic athletes while their poor ff peers will be left wheezing and dying on the sidelines.

Much of what is espoused on here about the benefits of bf is ridiculously OTT and some of the stuff said about ff-ers is unbelievable.

Nothing wrong with being pro-bf - believe me I was pretty evangelical about it before I actually tried it hmm.

MiaowTheCat Mon 18-Feb-13 19:39:28

By stepping aside from the really unpleasant BF bully front she's probably got herself heard by a lot more women whom the hard line bullies have utterly alienated over the years. Yes, she picked a term to use that people have jumped on to be offended by (although I suspect lots of those being offended are just those she was referring to and are trying to hijack the issue of their antics being detrimental to their actual cause) but I actually approve of her intentions in terms of trying to promote the cause without some of the utterly vicious bullying and harassment that goes on.

And I normally can't stand the woman so I'm hardly a paid-up member of her fanclub.

But I'm late to the thread and I see we're now onward into the "oooh those formula feeders are just hypersensitive and making it up" territory. There is some utterly AWFUL harassment that goes on - and a conspiracy of silence regarding the behaviour of the breastfeeding hardline front - who flipping well NEED to be called out on it.

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Feb-13 19:40:52

The thing is, on MN you aren't allowed to be too positive about breast feeding or you'll be accused of being breastapo/mafia/bf-ing nazi.

I disagree entirely.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that the majority of posters on MN are quite positive about BF-ing...even if they chose not to themselves/couldn't BF.

The breastapo/mafia/bf-ing nazi labels are normally given to those for whom the cap fits.

And that is usually self evident in their posting.

Adversecamber Mon 18-Feb-13 19:49:27

Thank you for posting this, another reason to loathe.

NigellaTufnel Mon 18-Feb-13 19:59:50

I'm also not a fan, but YABU it looks Luke you're just trying to find something to get worked up about.

(and I actually feel s bit sorry for her, even though she is rich and pretty because wasn't her ex a cOmplete dick?)

ChairmanWow Mon 18-Feb-13 20:03:12

I recently posted on the BF/FF forum re my lack of milk when I had my son and asking for tips to try and bring my milk in for this baby, due next week. The response was a mix of helpful tips and blinkered idiots who refuse to believe a woman's breasts function anything less than perfectly. I can't imagine they'd berate a visually impaired person on the basis that they can see fine so therefore everyone's eyes must be perfect. I'm afraid for my boy it was formula or death. Deal with it mofos.

Mind you, Myleene is a self-promoting twat and really needs to piss off now. She makes me feel stabby.

atacareercrossroads Mon 18-Feb-13 20:05:06

Yabu, context is everything op.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 18-Feb-13 20:07:21

I watched Myleene when she was on 'I'm a Celebrity' (I know, I know) and she came across really well,always cheerful, up for anything and nothing fazed her.
Didn't she come second or something?
I realise I'm a lone voice in support of her on MN though grin

UnknownGnome Mon 18-Feb-13 20:22:05

Bit of a mixed bag of opinions then which is always nice smile

I don't know, I just thought it would have been nice if she had gone about raising awareness of this issue without using such a negative and offensive term.

It's like talking about the benefits of reusable nappies whilst assuring people that you're not one of those 'hippy dippy weirdos', or 'lentil weavers'. It sounded like a negative terms to describe a group of people she has no respect for. Fair enough to have no respect or to plain dislike them; just don't mention them on national tv!

BegoniaBampot Mon 18-Feb-13 20:33:59

Think you should just string her up really. Seriously, why so much hate and pick, pick picking - sheesh !

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Feb-13 21:07:43

It's like talking about the benefits of reusable nappies whilst assuring people that you're not one of those 'hippy dippy weirdos', or 'lentil weavers'.

See but I think that makes perfect sense grin

LBE you're not alone. I saw her on I'm a Celeb and thought the exact same thing. She's also a talented musician.

I don't read gossip mags/celeb columns or tabloids, so the whole MC 'hatred' thing appears to have passed me by.

PolkadotCircus Mon 18-Feb-13 21:12:03

I don't get the Mylene hate thing,always seems to come across as intelligent and quite nice.

The fact is these type of women exist and she was simply trying to reach out to all women,truth hurts I guess.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 18-Feb-13 21:36:03

I quite like MK. She is an attractive, intelligent woman doing a good thing. I am shock at the vitriol leveled against her on this thread. I just don't get it.confused

Oh and YABU OP. The breastapo do exist and are damaging to BFing rates. My DSiL couldn't BF her first DC. She is now pregnant with her second and has decided not to try BF again because of a member of the breastapo made her feel inadequate and guilty then and she doesn't want any contact with a BFing advisor this time round.sad

HumphreyCobbler Mon 18-Feb-13 21:45:55

The whole discussion about breastfeeding always ends up with these brestapo/nazi thing. If they are so bloody powerful how come formula is what MOST people in this country use to feed their babies?

As someone who couldn't breastfeed their first baby properly and who had to use mostly formula I agree that there is pressure to breastfeed - it came from myself. The only person in the entire world giving me pressure about it was me. I DO remember reading the bf/ff threads and feeling got at in a major way. Until I realised that this was not the intention of those who spoke, and an objective look at breastfeeding does in fact tell us that it is the optimal way to feed your baby.

Those people I started off resenting are those whose advice I took and thereby ended up breastfeeding my next baby. I couldn't have done it without them.

LondonNinja Mon 18-Feb-13 22:08:27

The breastapo do exist and are damaging to BFing rates. My DSiL couldn't BF her first DC. She is now pregnant with her second and has decided not to try BF again because of a member of the breastapo made her feel inadequate and guilty then and she doesn't want any contact with a BFing advisor this time round.

Same here - don't blamer her at all if I were to have another, I would actively avoid the BF bullies 'advisers'. And, as ChairmanWow said, it was FF or her health suffering: "deal with it mofos" is bang on. I struggled on for 4.5 months and was quite poorly as a result, hardly sleeping etc, as I felt under so much pressure to BF as much as humanly possible. My DH was forever telling me to let him FF at night (I couldn't sleep at all in the day, as we had builders banging and crashing all fecking day)... It was really tough. It's made me quite angry, actually.

(Of course it's wrong that women in some parts of the world don't know about BF. But that's a different issue.)

LondonNinja Mon 18-Feb-13 22:09:28

*blame

McPheetStink Mon 18-Feb-13 22:19:54

Personally, I couldn't help but notice the amount of goo she had slapped through her hair. And the lack of effort in dressing for the telly.

HumphreyCobbler Mon 18-Feb-13 22:20:22

It seems extraordinary to me that the very people who do most to help and promote breastfeeding are those vilified by those who don't manage to breastfeed. I was one of those women, so I feel I can comment here.

I think we are visiting our deep grief at our inability to breastfeed on these women. I am sure some of them are tactless, I am sure some of them don't give optimal advice, I am sure that lots of people could do more and learn more and help more. But comparing them to Nazis? The gestapo? It is out of proportion.

As I said before, I truly believe the pressure comes from ourselves.

whiteandyelloworchid Mon 18-Feb-13 22:23:35

yanbu it was an idiotic use of an idiotic term from a class 1 idiot mk.

SirBoobAlot Mon 18-Feb-13 22:28:39

The new petition from Save The Children is wonderful. If it gets publicity for the bastards that Nestle and Danone are, then I'm all for it.

The problem is because bottle feeding is so ingrained in our culture now, you can no longer state a scientific fact without people being offended.

The fact is - breastfeeding saves lives. I don't hate formula, but I fucking hate the companies. They aren't stupid, they know these people do not have access to safe drinking water, to sterlising equipment, never mind the fact that their outrageous costs equal a quarter of some of these peoples salaries. They care about profits.

Formula is not sterile. Even here in the UK where we can prepare it safely, babies still get ill. Handing it out to people knowing that it will risk their children's lives when their situations are worse than ours, and not giving a fuck as long as their profits increase, makes me sick.

Because you can't be seen as pro-breastfeeding without people automatically marking you down as hating formula feeders, you have to declare you're not. It's a frustrating comment for her to make, but I completely understand why she had to.

PolkadotCircus Mon 18-Feb-13 22:33:28

"Grief" "inability" think you're surmising a lot here.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 18-Feb-13 22:36:07

Humphrey the breastapo are most definitely not the people who do most to help and promote BFing. Being tactless and giving sub optimal advice is not on when dealing with women at their most vulnerable.

The people who do the most to help and promote BFing are sensitive, know their stuff and if, for whatever reason, a woman chooses to FF, they wish them the best. Had my DSiL had such an advisor, she still would have FF DN, but most definitely would be more open to BF this time.

JenaiMorris Mon 18-Feb-13 22:44:06

Fuck offending breast or bottle feeding enthusiasts - they'll get over it. How about some bloody context? Does she have any idea what the Gestapo did?

She (and anyone who uses similar absurd and obscenely trivialising language) is a complete twat.

BeCool Mon 18-Feb-13 23:02:54

YABU to describe those who promote bf as the breastapo. It's bloody awful

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 18-Feb-13 23:06:30

I sometimes wonder if BFing advisors on maternity wards are the best way of increasing BFing rates. Surely it makes more sense to do the promoting and info spreading all the time?

And I dont just mean one class at school and some advice during pregnancy (although these are good). I would like to see much mire BFing on TV. I would love to see a soap character BF. And not in a campaigning way. BFing while having a chat, talking about the issue alongside sleepless nights and first smiles. The way real BFing mums do. Sure at the start it would probably be seen as a campaign / challenging notions etc. But so did the introduction of gay characters. Now homosexuality is so common place in soaps that it doesn't warrant comment.

I would like that to happen for breastfeeding as well.

SirBoobAlot Mon 18-Feb-13 23:12:11

Dione, wouldn't that be lovely?

LondonNinja Mon 18-Feb-13 23:14:29

Humphrey, not in my case - I wasn't spoken to like a human being by the advisers who came round at really bad times and proceeded to milk me very fucking painfully. It was appalling. The pressure came from them. I fully intended to BF till DD was one. Sadly, as I'd been ill and delivered early, milk didn't flow, she lost too much weight and was not strong enough to feed for long on thr boob (vicious circle) and I had to use FF as a top up. I cried when she eventually refused to BF at 4.5 months. I'd gone from a confident expectant mum to a guilty, worried mum, all due to the attitudes of some of the professionals (and other mums) around me. I was too shattered to think straight at the time, but now, I'm angry at the way I was treated.

SirBoobAlot Mon 18-Feb-13 23:17:12

Rightfully so, London. I promise you, however, we're not all like that. In every profession, you will get a mixture of people. You should have had more, effective, kind support, and I'm sorry you didn't.

merrymouse Mon 18-Feb-13 23:46:49

I have no idea who this 'breastapo' is.

I had one lovely NCT breastfeeding counsellor who gave advice according to current best practice guidelines, but was pretty laid back about the whole thing; and everybody else (midwives, health visitors) was happy to suggest a bottle at the drop of a hat.

The whole discussion about breastfeeding always ends up with these brestapo/nazi thing. If they are so bloody powerful how come formula is what MOST people in this country use to feed their babies?

Completely agree.

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 19-Feb-13 00:01:17

Yes it would Sirboob. I wanted to BF for the health benefits. I did BF because it was normal to me.

Me and my extended family were all BF'd. FFing was seen as an unnecessary faff and expense. They chose when to switch to FF and it wouldn't even cross anyone's mind to judge. When I hit some problems my mum would be there with words of comfort and advice, reminiscence and general old chitchatty bollocks. The problems werent minimized, but normalized and treated as part of the whole Having A Baby Thing.

I think the media have a huge part to play in this. The more we see realistic depictions of breastfeeding, the more normal it will become.

Cubtrouble Tue 19-Feb-13 00:18:05

Titty Taliban, that has cracked me up. Nice one rubber duck.

My mum calls myleene, myleene glass, as in her name sounds like a nice window cleaning product.

I don't think anyone should take her too seriously, anymore than you would by any of her chavtastic lurid clothes in mothercare.

I think Myleene Klass comes across as a friendly, intelligent woman and cannot see why she is slated so regularly. I am really, really not keen on "Breastapo", however.

PessaryPam Tue 19-Feb-13 01:29:18

McPheetStink Personally, I couldn't help but notice the amount of goo she had slapped through her hair. And the lack of effort in dressing for the telly.

A saucer of milk for my friend here please.

JenaiMorris Tue 19-Feb-13 07:33:04

Titty Taliban. Hilarious hmm

McPheetStink Tue 19-Feb-13 07:36:27

PessaryPam. I expect no other such comment from you hmm

<exit this way>>>>

ChairmanWow Tue 19-Feb-13 08:27:58

"I have no idea who this 'breastapo' is."

Unlike many PPs for me the HCPs weren't the titty taliban. I was visited at home virtually every day by the midwives due to our feeding issues (DS has been admitted to hosp due to weight loss so we had extra help). Actually I found them really encouraging and when we finally decided no more at the end of that month they agreed that at this stage and after all the effort we'd put in it was highly unlikely I'd start producing milk. They were really positive about how hard I'd tried and felt we'd made the right decision.

Actually it's the bullies I see on forums and the women who have glared at me at baby groups, the one who tutted and shook her head at me when I pulled a bottle out and started feeding my son at an NCT group and the cow who walked past me in a cafe and said loudly 'that baby should be breast fed'. And finally the 'friend' who accused me of 'giving up' on my son.

Sorry if that's a bit ranty but I get sick of titty taliban denial. Try being on the receiving end. It's maddening!

JenaiMorris Tue 19-Feb-13 08:43:46

Until La Leche and the NCT start forming militia and patrolling the streets with guns this language will remain ridiculous and offensive.

SirBoobAlot Tue 19-Feb-13 11:23:29

It's very offensive. However... The phrase is recognised. It shouldn't be, but it is, and that is why she used it.

She was in a difficult position, trying to sound reasonable and promote breastfeeding at the same time, which is damn near impossible to do. People turn off. They don't want to listen.

I've been called a Nipple Nazi before. I also know for a fact that I have helped mothers, and that I have made a difference to their lives, because they have come back to tell me so. A few have thanked me in the streets months afterwards. I've been sent a few cards, and even a bunch of flowers. So if I can support breastfeeding, and help mothers when they are struggling, I can take being called a few names.

BegoniaBampot Tue 19-Feb-13 11:48:55

mcpheet stink -your comment was totally bitchy. don't dish it out if you can't take it.

McPheetStink Tue 19-Feb-13 18:51:24

I'll say what I like thank you smile

PessaryPam Wed 20-Feb-13 11:49:13

Thanks Begonia, I thought so too. With women like that you don't need men to grind you down!

Springdiva Wed 20-Feb-13 20:59:09

As I said before, I truly believe the pressure comes from ourselves
Well there has to be pressure when we are bombarded with info on how breast is best. Gawd, just a bit of balance would be nice.

The whole discussion about breastfeeding always ends up with these brestapo/nazi thing. If they are so bloody powerful how come formula is what MOST people in this country use to feed their babies

Because alot of what is said is not true.
It's easy - hmmm for some and how on earth someone can continue breast feeding whilst woh a long day and presumably expressing milk for the childminder to use - plus getting up to feed through the night, usually more often if breast feeding than Ff, and keep down a demanding job.
It's always on tap, yes, your taps, FF means you can pass the job to someone else.
It's natural - it's so natural that, now I no longer mix with young mums, I haven't seen someone breastfeeding for years, years.

Alot of this is societal. And more bfeeding on tv etc would be a great idea, but meanwhile let's cut back on the diktat.

I found the mw on the maternity ward really helpful this time. Nearly 3 weeks in and bf is going well for the first time ever (this is ds4)

Shagmundfreud Wed 20-Feb-13 23:03:22

"I think the media have a huge part to play in this. The more we see realistic depictions of breastfeeding, the more normal it will become."

Hmmm. The fact that glimpses of breastfeeding are rare as hens teeth on a documentary series about childbirth (OBEM), which has now run for four seasons, tells you how far we've got to go.

"Try being on the receiving end. It's maddening!"

Why is there no similarly insulting and nasty name for those people who make breastfeeding mothers feel uncomfortable? "You're not feeding that baby AGAIN are you?" , "I don't have a problem with breastfeeding as long as it's discrete invisible, and the midwives who undermine breastfeeding by suggesting formula instead of offering help when bf is tough? 'Formula facists' maybe? 'Bottle bullies'?

BumBiscuits Wed 20-Feb-13 23:13:45

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BegoniaBampot Wed 20-Feb-13 23:29:30

She's half Filipino, probably knows and understands third world culture (at least in the philippines) more than many celebs. Why wouldn't she be a good personan to reach out to fellow Filipino mothers?

BegoniaBampot Wed 20-Feb-13 23:31:15

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BumBiscuits Wed 20-Feb-13 23:54:42

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BumBiscuits Wed 20-Feb-13 23:56:27

grin Myleenes ... I blame the phone of the i

BegoniaBampot Wed 20-Feb-13 23:59:50

No - I hardly notice her TBh. Just this hatred of a woman is quite disturbing. So many sheep, baaaahhh!

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 21-Feb-13 00:26:45

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BumBiscuits Thu 21-Feb-13 09:09:44

Whoops, massive huge fluffy apologies. I didn't realise I'd stumbled onto Netmums.

Hope you are okay, hun. ((((hugs)))) brew

PessaryPam Thu 21-Feb-13 09:29:30

Are you sober now Bum?

pictish Thu 21-Feb-13 09:31:45

Is it the done thing to report posts slagging off celebrities?

PessaryPam Thu 21-Feb-13 09:33:46

No leave it there, it says more about the posters than cash ever could.

VenusRising Thu 21-Feb-13 09:53:30

I think Myleen Class did a good job to highlight yet again what needs highlighting, that women without access to clean water are being targeted by formula companies to use formula with their babies, and not to feed their little babies on hygienic and sustainable breast milk.

We all know how difficult it can be to breast feed, just imagine if you started off mixed or formula feeding only to have your supply stop, and have to continue ff, even though you knew that the water was from the sewer.
It's really shocking, and I feel so compassionately towards those in this terrible situation.

It's sad that so many here take umbrage with that message, just because they can't see past the person doing the work on this campaign.

You know, it seems to me that there are a lot of pixels on this site outlining the how outrageous it is to judge a woman on her looks, and here we are having a go at a woman, on the basis of what? she sang in a band, wrote a book, released a piano cd, made a DVD, models some clothes, and is a single mum. She's a good looking, talented, mixed race, successful and ambitious woman, maybe that rankles?!

As it is, we need to boycott the formula companies who are marketing so aggressively to women who have no access to clean water.

I see mn has a No Nestlé campaign! Well done!

So, how about we forget our pettiness and concentrate on the important issue:
What's in your shopping trolley this week ladies?!

WTF is up with her. angry

Bakingtins Thu 21-Feb-13 11:49:28

Comparing anyone who advocates for breastfeeding, even if you find their methods over the top or offensive, to any Nazi organisation (or the mafia) is totally U.

TheBigJessie Thu 21-Feb-13 12:05:57

I think I have a sense of humour. But then I would.

However, I actually have a broad, if shallow, understanding of world history. When you say, "breastapo", "titty taliban", "breastfeeding nazi", etc, I am outraged. Not on my behalf. I am outraged on the behalf of all the people who have suffered/are still suffering due to those groups. It minimises their suffering.

No wonder we need Holocaust Memorial Day. No wonder that although the world said, "Never again" after that, it fucking has happened again. And again.

I understand her motivation for saying it. Maybe she thinks it's worth it, if it saves more babies dying right now from badly prepared formula. That's an opinion she has a right to hold. But most probably, like lots of people, she didn't even think about what she was saying before she said it. And that I cannot respect. Ever.

BegoniaBampot Thu 21-Feb-13 12:32:15

Ha, ha - just been deleted for calling someone a sheep (I think).

Shagmundfreud Thu 21-Feb-13 12:38:35

The language used by people trying to discredit breastfeeding advocacy is consistently pretty horrible on this board.

'Breastapo', 'nipple nazi', 'titty taliban'. Lots of talk about breastfeeding advocates being 'strident', 'hysterical', trying to 'force' mothers to breastfeed. Constant insistence that all mothers have the right to choose how they feed their baby, implying that breastfeeding advocates think otherwise. Insistence that breastfeeding advocates commonly see formula as 'poison' and mothers who ff as 'bad mothers'.

In ten years of involvement with breastfeeding advocates and advocacy, the worst I've witnessed is someone young, inexperienced and insensitive saying openly she felt it was 'selfish' not to breastfeed. The odd disapproving glance at someone bottle feeding, a silly and tactless comment. Definitely nothing worse than the disapproving looks and regular comments of 'you're not still feeding that baby!', while I was breastfeeding.

And yet apparently there is an organised body of really horrible, cruel and frankly weird women out there who campaign to remove choice from other people, and who deliberately perpetuate falsehoods about formula and formula feeding.

I think this is mostly down to there being hundreds of thousands of guilty and defensive mothers out there. It's fertile ground for anti-breastfeeding propaganda and myth.

tiktok Thu 21-Feb-13 12:47:41

ChairmanWow, you say you posted recently on the breast/bottle feeding board, and you complain about some of the help you had. In fact you said "The response was a mix of helpful tips and blinkered idiots who refuse to believe a woman's breasts function anything less than perfectly."

I checked your thread.

It's here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1682733-Tips-to-bring-my-milk-in

No 'blinkered idiots' at all. Just kind people who offered sympathy and understanding and some good leads. Makes me wonder why people like me bother (though I am not on that thread).

True bullying, true 'blinkered idiocy' about bf/ff does sometimes happen here. It is quickly jumped on.

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 21-Feb-13 12:50:46

Really Shagmund? I don't think that at all. No one is saying that BF advocates are an organized group determined to make new mothers feel bad. But there are certainly individuals in this movement who do. Or do you think that the posters here are lying?confused

The first hours and days post partum are a very sensitive and vulnerable time in a woman's life. Insensitive BF advocates should have no place on maternity wards. They are damaging.

tiktok Thu 21-Feb-13 12:53:44

Shag, I agree with you when you say "In ten years of involvement with breastfeeding advocates and advocacy, the worst I've witnessed is someone young, inexperienced and insensitive saying openly she felt it was 'selfish' not to breastfeed. The odd disapproving glance at someone bottle feeding, a silly and tactless comment. "

That's my experience. As well as being a breastfeeding counsellor, I work with bf supporters, and they are acutely conscious of what they say and how they say it. I come across some naive comments - one person (not a trained supporter) told me she found it hard to believe people when they said they didn't have enough milk because she never had that problem. But these comments are very rare, and they're not meant unkindly, on the whole.

I do see the occasional bit of judgmentalism against ff on these boards but if it comes to a competition, the nastiness and venom against bf supporters wins! The thread I linked to before is an example of people simply misremembering and misinterpreting things, too!

BumBiscuits Thu 21-Feb-13 12:59:11

'Is it the done thing to report posts slagging off celebrities? '

So it seems pictish. MNHQ in for a busy day deleting all posts slagging off slebs.

Suggest they start with searches on Piers Morgan, Cherie Blair and Peter Andre!

BegoniaBampot Thu 21-Feb-13 13:05:37

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BumBiscuits Thu 21-Feb-13 13:50:03

Forget to put in your love eggs today, Bampot?

ChairmanWow Thu 21-Feb-13 14:21:14

1. Massive sense of humour failure all round. Well done for escalating this thread into a massive po-faced screamfest instead of a healthy debate.
2. It's okay to disagree with someone and nobody should have the fear of being aggressively shouted down (except trolls who deserve all they get)
3. I maintain that on my BF/FF thread there were posters who simply didn't seem able to accept that my breasts were running dry! Bit galling after all the heartbreak I went through, but hey ho.
4. Some of us have have had people being incredibly rude to us about how we feed our babies (see the RL egs in my PP, plus other posters). Is it anti-BF to even mention it? Of course not. Breastfeeding advocacy as an idea and very often in practice = good, zealotry = bad, and likely to scare women off.
5. I'm betting that virtually everyone, if not everyone posting on this thread is pro-BF. I certainly am. Why would I have been asking for advice about how to maximise my chances this time if not?

Chill pill and sense of perspective desperately needed. Dread to think what someone finding this randomly on Google is thinking right now confused .

tiktok Thu 21-Feb-13 14:30:27

Which of the kind and helpful supportive posts on that thread came from 'blinkered idiots', Chairman?

You are imagining things. Don't bother asking other queries, now will you? Someone might genuinely try to offer support and be totally misinterpreted.

JenaiMorris Thu 21-Feb-13 14:44:50

What sense of humour failure? confused

ChairmanWow Thu 21-Feb-13 16:20:27

Takes deep breath.

Me. My milk didn't come in. Any tips on how to make it happen this time
Other poster no, your son wasn't able to get the milk out.

The point way, way back up this thread was some womens inability to accept that some womens breasts don't work properly. Read the rest of the BF thread and you'll see that, yep, my breasts didn't work properly. the bit about rudeness was illustrated with RL examples of actual rudeness. I see you conveniently ignored everything else.

Now I think I'll flounce off and give my knockers another squeeze. See if I can't get them working for my imminently due little lady.

showtunesgirl Thu 21-Feb-13 16:25:51

Why is it people get so weird about BF or not BF? confused

Anyhoo, MK is all right. She's always been a bit shiny shiny even way back when I used to know her. She doesn't mean any harm and her little brother and sister whom I knew better are really nice too.

tiktok Thu 21-Feb-13 16:33:13

Chairman you're rewriting not paraphrasing there.

Never mind. Threads about a thread are bad mumsnetiquette. People tried to help you - they offered support and encouragement, but obviously they cannot know all the details about what happened to you. You call them 'blinkered idiots' - nice sad

showtunesgirl Thu 21-Feb-13 16:45:06

Nevermind tiktok, I luffs you anyway. thanks

Fillyjonk75 Thu 21-Feb-13 16:46:16

Myleene Klass isn't strictly necessary.

tiktok Thu 21-Feb-13 17:00:48

Big sloppy kiss (no tongues) for STG smile

tiktok Thu 21-Feb-13 17:10:48

Chairman, in order not to ignore the rudeness you experienced in real life, let me add it is obviously unacceptable and unpleasant. Obviously. No one is in favour of people being criticised or judged like that.

AngryGnome Fri 22-Feb-13 10:27:43

I think that the women who promote breastfeeding have a very hard job. Yes, there are a lot of failings in breastfeeding support - in my experience HCPs were shocking, and the NCT were not great. I think that there is a lot of pressure on women with the breast is best message, but there is not always the support there to back this up - I think this can be very dependent on the area where you live. As it seems that the main reason women do not start, or continue, with breasfeeding is because of a lack of support it seems very unfair to criticise and label those who give up their time (often as volunteers) to provide that support.

My experience was that a local community nursery nurse was excellent, and LLL were very helpful (although the advice they gave me I have since been told on here was actually 'wrong' - but hey, it worked for me and DS).

I have to say that in real life I have never encountered any kind of pressure to feed my baby in a particular way; it only seems to be on MN that there is such a hostile divide between mothers who bf and mothers who ff. I wonder if a lot of that open hostility is because we are on an anonymous forum? (should probably add that not all threads show this hostility - a lot are brilliant and supportive with great advice).

drizzlecake Fri 22-Feb-13 16:40:57

As it seems that the main reason women do not start, or continue, with breasfeeding is because of a lack of support

I would say it is also possibly that many don't feel comfortable with the idea of breastfeeding and doing it in front of people who have never seen anyone do it before (to any extent), it's just not a typical thing you come across in the Uk.
How many provocativley posed women showing cleavage and breasts do you see in a week, how many breast feeding?
So opening your clothing to reach a breast in public or even with extended family members around is not something they want to do. (not my experience by the way but I used to feed in the car if I was out)

drizzlecake Fri 22-Feb-13 16:51:35

I think this is mostly down to there being hundreds of thousands of guilty and defensive mothers out there. It's fertile ground for anti-breastfeeding propaganda and myth

Well what came first the guilt or the BFmafia?

Sad that we can't be more reasonable. What's notable is the absence of FF mums on these threads. So the majority of mothers dont' feel they can contribute to these threads - I think that that says it all - until that changes the BF proponents are preaching to the converted.

MrsBethel Fri 22-Feb-13 17:01:18

YABU
She was just encouraging a moderate approach.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now