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to not understand people announcing that they're 'Getting Engaged'.

(331 Posts)
atthewelles Mon 18-Feb-13 13:12:13

I mean, either you've agreed between you that you want to get married or you haven't. Tellling everyone that you're 'going to get engaged at Christmas' or that 'we're going to Paris to get engaged' doesn't really make sense. Surely its more exciting to wait until you have the ring and then make a general announcement that you 'are engaged' instead of letting everyone know in advance and then expecting them to get excited and ooh and aah when you appear with a diamond flashing on your finger.

I'm not giving out about it, I just don't understand why people want to take the excitement and surprise out of the occasion like this.

SassySask Mon 18-Feb-13 13:15:30

Yeah..that's a bit odd! Surely announcing you are engaged is so much more satisfying?

WorraLiberty Mon 18-Feb-13 13:16:53

People like to tell others when they're looking forward to something important and exciting in their life.

I'm not sure what's hard to understand about it?

Bejeena Mon 18-Feb-13 13:19:49

For me it was impossible I didn't know I was getting engaged until he was in front of me with a ring!

I've never got that one either.
If one party has asked the other to get married, and they've agreed, then you are engaged - surely? confused

EllieArroway Mon 18-Feb-13 13:22:10

Announcing that you're "going to get engaged" is OTT and odd, I think. Surely, you're already engaged the moment you agree to get married? But people have to have their moments, don't they hmm

Scholes34 Mon 18-Feb-13 13:22:25

I always look upon an engagement as the announcement that you're planning to get married. I suppose announcing you're going to get engaged is a bit like sending out the Save the Date cards before the official invite to a wedding.

LilyBolero Mon 18-Feb-13 13:22:58

it's a bit like announcing you're going to try for a baby, which I've also heard people do.

EllieArroway Mon 18-Feb-13 13:23:12

Xposted with Sauvignon. Yes, quite.

BookWormery Mon 18-Feb-13 13:25:01

YANBU. It's ridiculous

Narked Mon 18-Feb-13 13:26:26

So they're effectively posting to say eg 'My DP's going to ask me to marry him at Christmas'. It is odd but I can't say it bothers me.

fluffyraggies Mon 18-Feb-13 13:31:22

Yes, it is a bit like telling everyone you have decided that you are going to decide to do something!

You've already decided FGS grin

BerthaKitt Mon 18-Feb-13 13:34:46

I've heard of this and it doesn't make sense. If you know you're going to get engaged, then you already are engaged!

lesserspottedshitehawk Mon 18-Feb-13 13:37:48

Well ta very much atthewellies.

I hadn't given it a second thought till you started this thread.

Then momentarily I didn't understand either.

Then I read Worras post and now I do understand.

<exhausted from journey of confusion and realisation>

sooperdooper Mon 18-Feb-13 13:38:22

I agree, it's utterly ridiculous, if you've decided to get married you are engaged already!

A girl I worked with once said to me that over the weekend she'd been to pick her engagement ring, so I appropiately said, 'congratulations! can I see it?' and she replied that she was waiting for him to propose properly confused

How the fook do you end up shopping for an engagement ring if you haven't agreed to get married??? hmm

RobinSparkles Mon 18-Feb-13 13:39:21

"I've never got that one either.
If one party has asked the other to get married, and they've agreed, then you are engaged - surely?"

This exactly!
YANBU, OP.

"Surely, you're already engaged the moment you agree to get married"

My DD and her partner are going to get married, eventually and before they start to ttc.

Everyone of their friends who have already had children, or have started to live together or he's cheated, class themselves as "engaged", but are not planning a wedding, which i think is pointless.

They are going to formally become engaged, when they look to book a date and get a ring, so it will be a set time.

I think that in a way it is the proper way of doing it, in a equal society, as the father doesn't need to be asked before the woman and she doesn't have to wait to be asked, like he is doing her a favour.

atthewelles Mon 18-Feb-13 13:42:21

Actually that's another thing I don't really get. People who get engaged but seem to have no actual plans to get married and are still engaged 5 years later. I always thought an engagement was a statement that you have now decided to get married.

"If one party has asked the other to get married, and they've agreed, then you are engaged"

^^ that - YES

It's a binary thing - one party asks, the other says yes, they are engaged. Until then they are not, co-habiting or otherwise. No "planning" involved. It has always bugged me.

RobinSparkles Mon 18-Feb-13 13:45:21

Yeah, but being engaged is just a promise to each other that you'll be married at some point. There's no time limit on it!

sooperdooper Mon 18-Feb-13 13:45:41

I don't think a woman has to wait to be asked these days Birdsgottafly I know plenty of people who have just made a joint decision to get married, without the father/parents beign asked or it being just the man who does the asking

JacqueslePeacock Mon 18-Feb-13 13:46:24

I have never heard of people announcing that they are going to get engaged! Only that they already are engaged.

sooperdooper Mon 18-Feb-13 13:46:55

You also don't need a ring to be engaged, it's an agreement to get married, not an agreement to wear/buy jewellery

akaemmafrost Mon 18-Feb-13 13:47:39

Oh it's just wringing every last drop of triumph out of the victory of being a finalist in The Race To Catch A Man isn't it?

smellysocksandchickenpox Mon 18-Feb-13 13:51:11

YANBU

"we're planning to get engaged at NYE/on holiday in thailand/at X's wedding confused"
"oh you're engaged, congratulations"
"no, we're GOING to get engaged"
"no! you're WRONG! you are engaged"
(not actual conversation but close enough)

equally as annoying as:
"we're not going to get married, we don't believe in marriage, we're just going to get engaged"
ARGH! <bangs head on wall> - you're not though, you're not engaged if you don't plan to marry, you just have a nice ring!

EllieArroway Mon 18-Feb-13 13:51:44

Birds Your daughter is already engaged as they are planning to marry each other at some point - which is, in fact, all that really means.

flowery Mon 18-Feb-13 13:52:41

YANBU

The first time you know you are getting engaged is when you actually do get engaged. If you know you are getting engaged, then unless you've come by this knowledge through use of a crystal ball, you already are.

"Oh it's just wringing every last drop of triumph out of the victory of being a finalist in The Race To Catch A Man isn't it"

My DD just likes anniverseries and likes to create them.

She is also realistic, in that people change and you may start living together and get a bit older and things don't work out.

So although when they started living together, 8 years ago, they had in mind to get married, it wouldn't seem practical to count themselves as engaged, iyswim.

We don't do fairy tales in our family, we are probably quite cynical.

If you are not actively planning a wedding, i think that it is pointless to think that you are engaged.

I think of it as a change from the past, in light of equality and living together etc.

Also, for some people their relationships work well and they like to enjoy every aspect. Having said that she wouldn't publically share as much as some do, outside of the family/close friends.

thebody Mon 18-Feb-13 13:56:40

Oh Well, its not the crime if the century is it?

What's the harm in a little romantic announcement?

"Birds Your daughter is already engaged as they are planning to marry each other at some point - which is, in fact, all that really means."

But in a world where women can now call it off, if they are not happy, until that pledge to marry, is formally made, you are not engaged.

Engagement started in Jewish Law.

sooperdooper Mon 18-Feb-13 14:00:06

Birdsgottafly I think creating anniversaries is more 'fairytale' than cynical tbh

If you plan to get married, you're engaged, ring or no ring, wedding date booked or not

atthewelles Mon 18-Feb-13 14:02:37

But I don't think it is very romantic thebody. In fact I think it takes the romance out of the occasion if you signpost it all in advance.

MrsBW Mon 18-Feb-13 14:04:23

It's always struck me as a bit childish.

sooperdooper Mon 18-Feb-13 14:04:40

Yes, I agree atthewelles the romance is at the point of asking, and deciding, if it's planned to within an inch of it's life it takes the fun out of it somehow

PassTheSherry Mon 18-Feb-13 14:04:43

Some people look on it as a semi-formal occasion in itself - the presentation of the ring and the proposal. My DP also seemed to have this belief - I think it's stupid.

We'd actually had the 'let's get married' conversation and he'd looked around for the ring, whittled the choice down to 3 possibilities and then suggested I go with him to make the final decision, so I was there to pick it out with him!

Then it got very confusing, as I was all happy happy, wondering how to announce it to everyone - when he said "I haven't asked you yet". confused

It really upset me! I felt humiliated and wondered wtf he was playing at, messing me about - but he just had this idea in his head that it was all just scene-setting stuff, and the 'proper' proposal with the chosen ring, was yet to occur. Whereas I can't actually think of anything cheesier, or more cringeworthy than a staged proposal. <shudders>

In the end I think it spoilt it for me - after all it's a fairly unique occasion and I think he totally stuffed it up, not a good sign for getting married.

We still haven't got married - years later!

mmmuffins Mon 18-Feb-13 14:06:52

YANBU, though I've never actually heard of anyone doing this.

Announcing you are "going to get engaged" gives the impression that the emphasis of the act is on the big show of getting engaged, rather than the promise of commitment, which is the point.

It also just seems really tacky.

atthewelles Mon 18-Feb-13 14:09:16

I agree MrsBW, there's something a bit teenagerish about going around saying 'we're going to get engaged'.

"If you plan to get married, you're engaged, ring or no ring, wedding date booked or not"

Unless it is discussed, then many women may think that they are heading for marriage, but go on the relationship boards and you see that, that often isn't the case.

My DD has been with her DP since they were 17, there have been lots of changes, all discussed and points of possible issues gone through, including house chores.

The same is happening over childcare before they concieve.

If you think of an arranged marriage, or match maker situation (when Engagement was started) the couple meet because they want to marry, someone, but it is only when the pledge is made, they are married.

Inbetween, a lot of practical arrangements are discussed.

I suppose it depends on what you consider your cultural background.

EllieArroway Mon 18-Feb-13 14:10:46

So women can't call it off once the engagement is "formal"? hmm

Doesn't really matter how the whole thing started, it's not what it generally means today. Way back when, parents would "betroth" their babies and children to other babies and children (or even adults) & that was considered normal then, not so much now (in this country, at any rate). Things change.

"Engagement" really just means promising to marry each other. Formalising it, and insisting that it's not real until a ring is produced & a date set is perfectly fine, and people are free to feel that way - but I'm equally free to think it's incredibly silly and all just part of the "My big day! My big day! Everybody be excited about MY BIG DAY" mindset that so many people buy into now.

FelicityWasCold Mon 18-Feb-13 14:10:55

But in a world where women can now call it off, if they are not happy, until that pledge to marry, is formally made, you are not engaged.

A woman can call it off 30 seconds before she signs the actual marriage register (or 0.11111111 seconds I suppose...) that doesn't make you less engaged...

EllieArroway Mon 18-Feb-13 14:12:44

But your daughter and her DP do sound a lot more sensible than most husbands and wives to be, Birds, to be fair.

FelicityWasCold Mon 18-Feb-13 14:13:38

PasstheSherry- DH and I had an awkward moment a bit like that- I agree it is humiliating to agree you're getting married but be expected to wait around for what could be months on end to 'be engaged'

He <luckily> saw my point, and we got engaged immediately after that conversation! And are now happily married smile

atthewelles Mon 18-Feb-13 14:14:57

I once worked with a girl who had a friend who had got engaged on a bridge in a nearby park. My colleague thought this was lovely and insisted, when she and her DF got the ring, that they would go to this same bridge and he would 'propose' to her there. She even told her friend, and possibly other people, that they were going to do this.
I honestly couldn't think of anything less romantic. Talk about lacking spontanaity.

That should have been "when the pledge is made, they are engaged".

My DD thought that her partner could be a life partner on moving in with him, but wouldn't have said that she would marry him, until all is well in their living arrangements and relationship.

She wouldn't have made the pledge to marry, until she knew that he knew that he was equally responsible for running the house and trying to get work, that is what she wants in her marriage.

Ponderingonaquandry Mon 18-Feb-13 14:20:31

Another one who doesn't get the point of getting engaged if you're not going to get married.

BraveLilBear Mon 18-Feb-13 14:20:50

YANBU, OP, I kind of have to agree.

Although I am one of those weird types - OH and I decided 1 year/18 months back to get married at some point. We then decided to have children first because we have big families and the wedding will cost us a fortune - and my eggs weren't getting any younger.

We have agreed to get married, but we do not consider ourselves 'engaged'. That moment will come when he proposes, hopefully with a ring. Until that time, if people ask, we are planning to get married, but don't know when yet.

We certainly won't be announcing that we are 'getting engaged'. I agree, it's a little odd.

fluffyraggies Mon 18-Feb-13 14:21:07

Is it going to make me sound really old and crabby to say that i get the distinct feeling that allot of younger couples these days are hung up on all the big piss ups parties and announcements rather than the commitments to each other they are making?

A sweeping generalisation, i know, but over the last few years i've been to so many going to get engaged, have finally got engaged, and massive showy wedding party sequences for young couples who are then separated within a year, (or less) that it's making me cynical.

<Mutter mutter>

TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor Mon 18-Feb-13 14:22:26

I don't understand people who get engaged with no intention of getting married. My sil has been engaged for years, they're definitely not getting married so why say you are engaged? Also, engagement parties, what is the point in them? Oh, we're possibly planning on getting married, come to my party and buy me a present! Eh, no.

Ponderingonaquandry Mon 18-Feb-13 14:25:56

I'm with you fluffy!

I've seen two friends get married within the past year and it was all about the show. One was all about staging it for the photos and ignore the rest of the day like it was a fashion shoot really the other was all about the piss up.

Everything is about the piss up these days. 21st, 30th, engagement, wedding, divorce, baby shower...piss up and presents. Urgh.

atthewelles Mon 18-Feb-13 14:27:12

A lot of celebs seem to be serial 'engagers'. As soon as one engagement is off they've hooked up with someone else and three months later have announced they're engaged. A year later that one is off and within months another fiance is on the scene. Soap stars in particular seem to make a habit of this, often starting when they're about 19 and notching up several engagements before they finally walk down the aisle.
I assume a lot of these 'engagements' are just publicity stunts to get them on the front of Heat and OK.

PassTheSherry Mon 18-Feb-13 14:27:47

That's good Felicity - for us it worked the other way, and actually got me thinking that in some ways, we're not very compatible at all! smile

EllieArroway Mon 18-Feb-13 14:30:53

According to a few threads that I've read on MN, there are people who hold engagement parties - and hand out gift lists for them hmm

What next..."Our first date" party? "Our first snog" party? Ridiculous.

sooperdooper Mon 18-Feb-13 14:48:04

I think people who announce they are going to get engaged are probabaly the same ones who only get married because they want to be a 'Princess' for the day on their wedding, it's all about the event, and being the centre of attention not about what getting engaged/married actually means

pingu2209 Mon 18-Feb-13 14:49:45

I have never understood the statement going to get engaged, you are either engaged to be married, or not at all.

It is very childish.

vladthedisorganised Mon 18-Feb-13 14:58:45

DH and I are ridiculously unsentimental, so for us the 'engagement' was 'we agree to get married'. There was a ring, which was nice, but there certainly wasn't 'we're planning to get engaged when we go to Koh Samui in March - I've booked a five-star restaurant in the hope that he'll propose during the flypast of 1000 pink geese'.

We also never celebrated our 'anniversary' until we'd been married a year.

My cousin sends her DP an anniversary card and balloon for the day she first met him, the day he first asked her out, their first date and their engagement date.. and they get married next year. She was quite shocked on how vague we were about the date we got engaged.

Still married though grin. Didn't have a baby shower either FWIW.

Allthingspretty Mon 18-Feb-13 17:01:35

It reminds me of girls at school telling people they were goung to get engaged blah blah....

BeCool Mon 18-Feb-13 23:38:59

I've decided tomorrow late morning I will decide to have some lunch.
<pointless>grin

SwedishEdith Mon 18-Feb-13 23:51:02

Oh god, yes, this has always seemed completely bizarre to me. Recently knew of one case where the rest of the bloke's family knew he was going to propose on a particular date - she didn't. confused. Actually, I don't get proposals either - don't couples discuss minor things like marriage between themselves?

erowid Mon 18-Feb-13 23:56:24

I've only ever heard the "getting engaged" expression on American tv shows.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 00:08:44

i have always been a bit confused about 'surprise' engagements where one partner is completely shocked at being asked but says yes. surely if you are at the point where you are agreeing to marry you will have discussed it before the point you say yes. if a proposal came as a surprise to me i'd think i wasn't at the point in the relationship where i was ready to agree to marriage. i'd think my partner was at a different place to me and we weren't communicating very well. i'm pretty sure if i was about to become engaged i'd know about it for a good bit beforehand.

RaspberryRuffle Tue 19-Feb-13 00:10:17

Totally agree with OP and that once you have decided to get married then you are engaged, as in you have agreed in principle to marry each other. Should either party then decide not to go ahead this is 'breaking off the engagement'.
It's a bit ridiculous hearing those 'We're going to get engaged next year'. Also not my cup of tea these days is the proposer (usually the guy) asking the girl's father beforehand, I would have hated if my parents had known before me.

My poor sister was proposed to and his family were downstairs ready to pop the corks and very shocked to see her leg it out of the house! Good thing too though at the time.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 00:11:04

oh xposting with edith. glad i'm not the only one!

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 00:15:34

i agree raspberry. i'd be pretty pissed off if someone who wanted to marry me asked my father beforehand. it would show how little they knew me.

my cousin got engaged recently and my mum relayed it to me as "he did it properly, went and asked for her father's permission beforehand. he's a lovely fella"

hmm really mum? you do realise what you just said dont you? that one human asked another human for permission to do something with a completely separate human as if that separate human had no say in teh matter if 'permission' wasn't granted. i mean would X not have proposed to Y if Z had said no permission granted? it's a really stupid pointless nod to the patriarchy.

Greensleeves Tue 19-Feb-13 00:16:33

I agree. It is very peculiar. Makes me wonder whether one partner doesn't really want to get married and is playing for time <catty>

The "planning to start trying for a baby" is just awful. Overshare.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 00:22:02

"The "planning to start trying for a baby" is just awful. Overshare. "

i agree, unless you are talking to someone you will lean on for support during the whole 'trying' stage then there is no need at all to share this information. it is not worthy of announcement or celebration that you will be shagging for the forseeable. make an announcement when you are pregnant, people will be chuffed for you, but they will be bored stupid of the whole thing by the time you get to that point if you have announced every stage along the way as if you are expecting a round of applause.

Smellslikecatspee Tue 19-Feb-13 01:25:29

I'm one of those 'engaged' forever couples. . . Sorry

We knew each other before we went on a date, our 2nd date was moving in together.
He proposed spontaneously, no ring/ plan etc.

To me we weren't really really engaged till we told the parents and it had to be face to face, so had to sort out flying home. So we did tell people we were planing to get engaged. . .

We designed my first ring together, but I didn't wear it till after we'd told the parents.

We did plan to marry as soon as we could have the wedding we wanted, but then we had to move and thought why rent so saved saved saved for deposit and then mortgage.

And then we realised that his family weren't coming round (mixed race/religion/nationality). So thought sod them lets do a luxury abroad wedding..

Then fell in love with a house, so meh to wedding, yeahhhh to bigger house.

However us and the house is a bit of a pig in a poke, a total money pit.

And suddenly, it's 18 years later, we're still engaged, still have the intention of marrying, just where the hell has the time gone?

In that time we've dealt with 2 parent deaths and of a sibling, the Iraq war (he served), several career changes, cardiac issues, cancer x 2. Chronic illness, infertility, MCs x too many,family cancer, deaths, illness.

So we are one of them. . .

But after over 18 years together we've got to the point of it ain't broke. . .
To all his DNs we are the go to people, I have been around for all of their lives.

To my family, we'll he's one of us, whether he likes it or not.

He was at my Dads death bed, he was a pallbearer.
He's family (screeched in a Peggy Mitchell voice)

I'm sure we'll get there in the end, I see myself as a 70 year old in a very inappropriate wedding dress. . .

Oh dear. We did this. In my defence, it's a religious ceremony and we had to go and grab a couple of witnesses and buy rings to do it. I just went with it because we were planning to get married in DH's church and that's what they do. It didn't seem to confuse anyone massively, to be honest.

I think there is something slightly odd and coy about the idea of pretending there's an element of doubt to it right until the bloke gets down on one knee and the woman says yes, but I think if someone told me they were planning to get engaged, my first assumption would be that for them it had some kind of formal meaning rather than just a verbal agreement.

Aftereightsarenolongermine Tue 19-Feb-13 07:41:20

I think it can be a cultural thing also. I'm Greek Orthodox & there is a fairly strict protocol which most people follow. You agree to marry, families meet to discuss terms, this is called giving your word or pledge (yes there is a specific word used only in this situation. Then you get engaged at a later date & a priest is present (if the engagement breaks down you need an annulment from the church) you then at a later date have your wedding.

Never known it to be possible to have a wedding if you've not had step 2 or to have step 2 if you haven't had step 1.

Complicated enough for everyone? grin

At mine & DHs giving our word there were no terms I said I'm marrying him & that's that. Take it or leave it. Both families were quite happy though. & actually that's when the phone calls to families & friends start & congratulations flood in.

BraveLilBear Tue 19-Feb-13 08:06:11

Wow aftereights that's hardcore!

In defence of ' we're going to start trying for a baby' we had to do this with my parents. I'm 32, have bought a house with DP but knew they'd freak out if we announced I was pregnant, partly because we're not married (or engaged).

As it was, they still panicked a bit (ridiculous) but at least they knew it was coming.

BraveLilBear Tue 19-Feb-13 08:07:56

Also meant that they couldn't ask ' was it planned?'

We didn't tell anyone else this plan as we knew they'd be really happy for us, without caveat.

Gingerdodger Tue 19-Feb-13 08:25:12

I knew someone who got engaged. When I asked when they are thinking of having the wedding he replied 'Getting engaged doesn't necessarily mean you are getting married'.

Er well it did in my world!

Bonsoir Tue 19-Feb-13 08:28:27

Some people have an Engagement Party in order to make it "official".

It's a bit old fashioned, IMO, but marriage is a bit old fashioned.

MrsWinklepicker Tue 19-Feb-13 08:37:25

Maybe we could do with a third state of affairs: married, engaged or "attached", say....so when you and dp agree to become attached, you're in it for the long haul but no wedding in the offing as yet, it could happen with a nice pair of earrings perhaps...

KlarkyKat Tue 19-Feb-13 08:49:00

I have never understood this either, that's speaking as someone who's engagement lasted two months though!
Could it be these same people are the ones who have a "Hen Doo". Why is it spelt like this? Does it mean I'm old because I don't understand!? (I didn't have one, therefore I didn't have to spell it) smile

HecateWhoopass Tue 19-Feb-13 09:00:20

I don't understand either.

To become engaged is to agree to marry.

So to agree to become engaged at some point in the future is to agree to agree to marry.

And how does it work?

You get down on one knee and say will you agree to agree to marry me? We will be pre-engaged and become engaged next year, at which point I will whisk you away and propose?

Don't get me wrong, I don't care! Agree to agree to agree to agree to agree to marry if you like, I don't give a shit. grin I just don't understand.

MrsWinklepicker Tue 19-Feb-13 09:13:31

In fact, further to my previous post, we could formalise every step of the relationship, so you start off as "acquainted", then move on to "mutually attracted" and so on... Fb could have a drop down list for you to select from, with space to store the relevant anniversary.... We'd all know where we are and we'd all have lots of jewellery...

Lottapianos Tue 19-Feb-13 09:18:06

I don't get it either. I don't get 'engagements' at all actually - it's such a quaint and ancient idea. My best mate didn't get engaged - they just told people they were getting married in 6 months time. No ring either, she didn't want one - didn't like the significance of it (i.e. she's off the market) and she doesn't wear any jewellery at all so was horrified at the thought of wearing an expensive diamond. She's fab smile (even if she did marry a wanker hmm)

Snazzynewyear Tue 19-Feb-13 09:31:37

I think what people often mean by 'getting engaged' is saving up for a ring, so the engagement begins once that's been done. Daft I think as I agree with the 'engagement = you've agreed to get married' definition. Plus why tell everyone if it's not 'real' yet?

The arranging of a formal proposal in a particular place etc is also daft. It must feel like being in am-dram and waiting for someone to deliver their lines properly.

Lottapianos Tue 19-Feb-13 09:33:54

'The arranging of a formal proposal in a particular place etc is also daft. It must feel like being in am-dram and waiting for someone to deliver their lines properly.'

grin

I know! The thought of it makes me cringe myself silly

drmummmsy Tue 19-Feb-13 09:41:05

my aunt was engaged to her beau from she was 18 until she died in her seventies - they never lived together but were life-long companions. So no, not everyone conforms to the 'engaged, then married' norm...

drmummmsy Tue 19-Feb-13 09:42:29

also, i think it's great that women can now negotiate and have some sort of equal say in 'getting engaged', rather than the 'man-asking-woman' format - I wouldn't like that sprung on me in public, unexpectedly!

HecateWhoopass Tue 19-Feb-13 10:06:55

But surely that is simply agreeing to marry?

not agreeing that at some point in the future you will get engaged? On a certain date (normally involving being on holiday), a ring and a great story about how he got down on one knee on a sunny beach with blue seas and white sands and the ring was placed on your finger by angels grin

It's still the same thing, isn't it? Man asks woman either there and then or they put it in their diaries for 18 months away and he does The Proposal then?

Equal say would be nothing more than sitting down together, discussing marrying, agreeing it and doing it.

Scheduling a proposal and ensuring that the perfect conditions are created seems more about creating an event than anything else. Artificially creating what you perceive to be the most romantic way to propose.

Which is fine! If that's what someone wants. Same sort of thing as the £50k wedding grin It's about the day.

SamG76 Tue 19-Feb-13 10:23:38

I think the issue is that it's an agreement to marry, but without consequences. It used to be that one could be sued in the UK for breach of promise for calling off an engagement. That meant that some commitment was needed. Nowadays, it's pretty meaningless, except that one might feel obliged to return any presents....

Birdsgottafly - you're right that there is a form of Jewish engagement that means you need a divorce document to get out of it, but it's not often used nowadays. As a result, the formal engagement and marriage are often done together at the wedding. That's what we did, anyway. But Jewish engagements tend to be pretty short. [NB: this is in my experience - no need for loads of replies from people saying that they've been engaged for 27 years and recently attended their grandson's brit, etc....]

Dahlen Tue 19-Feb-13 10:36:42

I think it's a bit odd. Once you've decided you're going to do it surely you already have? confused

As for the depth of meaning to an engagement, I guess it's whatever level people choose to ascribe to it. Personally, I don't get engagements at all. If you want to get married, do it already. If you feel you need to delay it for a year or two, then you're not really ready to make that commitment. I know lots of people will say it's to save for the wedding or whatever, and if that's what they want, fine, but I personally think there's a lot wrong with big weddings, too, but that's another thread. wink

drmummmsy Tue 19-Feb-13 10:37:20

I don't suppose everyone sees it like that (simply agreeing to marry) Hecate, and that's why they do it? I'm not in that situation, so just conjecture on my behalf...

i.e. it has a different meaning to it than clearly we understand

PaellaUmbrella Tue 19-Feb-13 10:42:39

YANBU. If you've decided that you're going to get engaged then you've already agreed to marry, hence you are already engaged, formal proposal and ring or otherwise. Ridiculous.

PaellaUmbrella Tue 19-Feb-13 10:43:10

I also think engagement parties are ridiculous.

FakePlasticLobsters Tue 19-Feb-13 10:44:22

I think when they say "getting engaged at Christmas/on holiday" etc, it's either because they want the nice story to tell people later. "We got engaged on Christmas day/on the beach at sunset..." or because they are waiting to buy the ring or have the party to make it 'official'. Or perhaps to have family or friends around them when it happens

I know someone who was 'planning to get engaged at X time' and arranged a party just so the boyfriend could get down on one knee with the ring and propose in front of everyone. That seemed a bit 'showy' to me as everyone gathered around to watch and clap.

I was proposed to in front of a jewellery shop window, in front of a crowd of Christmas shoppers. I was horrified and said no. Looking back, we were in the final throws of a relationship that wasn't working and I think it was his idea of a last quick fix for it.

When DH proposed, he was 250 miles away and it happened over the phone, but it all felt very right without the need for parties, holidays or a crown of witnesses.

I think it's just a case of each to their own, but I do agree that if you have agreed to get engaged then you actually are engaged right then and there, regardless of when the ring is presented or the party takes place. If it ever does.

drmummmsy Tue 19-Feb-13 10:50:45

I suppose my point is that different people 'do' (or don't 'do') engagement differently, so YABU to not understand this

although YANBU to admit that the performance of admitting you're getting engaged' gets on your nerves!

grin

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 11:01:58

[The arranging of a formal proposal in a particular place etc is also daft. It must feel like being in am-dram and waiting for someone to deliver their lines properly.]

Totally agree. Staged proposals sound ridiculous to me. I don't see anything remotely romantic about a couple resolutely plodding up to the top of the Eifel Tower so that the proposal can take place in an appropriate setting.

Peevish Tue 19-Feb-13 11:17:17

There was a thread on here not too long ago from an OP who was outraged that her SIL had announced she and her partner were 'getting engaged' on the OP's birthday or wedding anniversary, and clearly felt the couple should have rung round all relatives to check they weren't getting engaged on someone else's significant date.

I quite agree this OP isn't BU - apart from cultures/religions in which 'betrothal' still has some formal meaning, and in which there is a point to pre- announcing an engagement. Otherwise, however you view engagement, it's a bit like announcing that next Tuesday, you and your friend are going to announce that you are going out to dinner at some point in the future.

MOTU Tue 19-Feb-13 11:18:34

To be fair my husband and I agreed to get married but he insisted in doing the whole asking my father and asking with a ring before he would consider us "engaged" so theoretically I could have announced "we're getting engaged.." (But I didn't cos it would spoil his fun!)

Peevish Tue 19-Feb-13 11:18:41

Mind you, I am the wrong person to ask. We got married less than a year ago, and when a friend recently asked what date, neither of us could remember, both made vague guesses, and when we eventually found the certificate, neither of us was right.

BalloonSlayer Tue 19-Feb-13 11:41:53

I think the old "breach of promise" thing was more that if a man broke off his engagement to a woman, people would assume that he had found out there was "something wrong" with her - ie not a virgin, madness in the family or something else unacceptable to Victorian squeamishness. So this would mean that probably no one else would want to marry the poor woman . . . therefore the breach of promise lawsuit was her way of asserting her right to be considered marriageable and making it clear that HE is the bad guy here.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 12:05:09

"You get down on one knee and say will you agree to agree to marry me? We will be pre-engaged and become engaged next year, at which point I will whisk you away and propose?"

oh hec! do you think there'll be a new wave of 'pre-engagement' announcements and parties soon? shock

there will be FB announcements "X and Y are very pleased to announce that we will be having our pre-engagement party on Sat night, all welcome --bring presents--" grin

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 12:08:04

lotta

my parents didn't get engaged either and no ring. i think it was just assumed after a while that they were getting married although i've never really asked them about it. and it wasn't a 'necessary wedding' either.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 12:21:03

someone i know got engaged recently and everyone knew it was happening beforehand but there had been no 'announcement' of intention to get engaged.

basically her boyfriend planned a holiday for them without their children and she put regular updates about how excited she was to be going away. loads of people posted things underneath her updates like "oh i hear wedding bells" and "make sure he gets down on one knee". the person responded saying " he better or i'm saying no". i just dont get it at all. she and everyone else knew he was taking her away to propose. why go along with the sharade and pretend it's all so exciting and surprising when you get back and "I'M ENGAGED!" followed by phonecalls round the important family members to announce it even though they all knew already.hmm

TheRivieraKid Tue 19-Feb-13 13:47:24

Glad it's not just me who thinks this is weird. FWIW, the first time my best friend met my newborn, she turned to me and said "We're going to start trying for a baby next month". I was firstly confused, then hmm. She told everyone they were going to start trying for a baby before they even started trying, which was really weird. For her it was all about the show, which sounds similar to a few posts here about some women wanting to be the constant centre of attention.

My neighbour got engaged last year and had THREE parties. All with the same people invited. Very very odd.

Pandemoniaa Tue 19-Feb-13 13:54:59

YANBU. I've never been formally engaged as it happens. I don't like engagement rings and didn't want one (let alone an engagement party) so just got on with planning a wedding. But then we were already living together so nothing much changed anyway!

When my ds1 got engaged a few months ago he and his (now) fiancee had discussed the idea of marriage but didn't count themselves as engaged until he'd proposed and presented her with the ring. Neither of them could understand why you'd announce that you were planning to get engaged. Although he did phone me earlier that same day to tip me off! The call was then followed by a very happy "She said YES!" call after he'd proposed.

EuroShagmore Tue 19-Feb-13 14:01:04

I don't get it either. If you have reached an understanding that you are going to marry, you are engaged. If you haven't reached that understanding, you have nothing to announce it's daft.

I don't have a problem with announcing that you are going to start trying to a(nother) baby though. That's just conversation.

gymboywalton Tue 19-Feb-13 14:11:05

it reminds me of being a teenager-there were always girls who said 'we are getting engaged on my 16th birthday' and would then prouly display their argos, cubic zirconia engagement rings

it's very ..young

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 14:15:02

I think if you go on about something in advance and give people information that really should be held back until you actually have something to announce all the excitement goes out of the occasion.

I used to work with a girl who, from the moment she got married, wasalways saying to colleagues 'Oh, I think I might be pregnant', 'Oh, I'd better not have a drink. I might be pregnant' 'I was doing some painting at the weekend and then realised I shouldn't be stretching like that because I think I might be pregnant'.
When she did eventually announce that she was pregnant it was hard not to just say 'oh yeah. Whatever' <yawn>.

It's the same with people telling you they're getting engaged for their birthday, discussing what kind of ring they'd like etc etc and then you're supposed to get all excited when they 'announce' I'M ENGAGED!!

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 14:17:17

LOL.*Gymboy*. I remember those girls - now long since married to someone completely different and would probably struggle to remember the name of their first 'fiance'.

LaQueen Tue 19-Feb-13 14:21:06

I don't get it either hmm

And, I get it even less, when people get engaged but don't seem to have a wedding in mind, yet hmm

I think some people see getting engaged as some sort of official status, in and of itself?

I really, really don't think it is...you are either engaged, with firm plans of when you're getting married... or you're just a couple, with one of you wearing a sparkly ring.

I think when a couple are engaged but with no actual wedding plans in sight, then I suspect that the girl was far more keen, than the bloke...and he's fobbed her off with a 'Well, we can get engaged for now, but I don't want to set a date for a couple of years'

The girl is placated, and buys lots of wedding magazines...the bloke breathes a sigh of relief, and reckons he's bought himself plenty of time.

Cynical...moi wink

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 14:27:42

I agree LaQueen. I think some engagement rings are bought as a 'keep her quiet for the moment' gesture and the engagement drifts on for a while and either the bloke dumps her or she sees sense and dumps him.

LaQueen Tue 19-Feb-13 14:32:21

An ex-friend proposed to her boyfriend, on the plane, as they flew out to Oz, for a 3 week holiday of a lifetime...I had known her for 20 years, and knew without a shadow of a doubt, that she had planned it precisely thus, because she knew he could hardly turn around and say no to her, and therefore ruin a 3 week holiday...he said yes, not surprisingly hmm

Haven't spoken to her in 8 years...but, know via FB that they're still not married - and heard through an acquaintence, that my ex-friend reckons she's not bothered about getting married, and doesn't actually really believe in marriage...yeah, right, whatever wink

LaQueen Tue 19-Feb-13 14:34:25

at yep, I think you're spot on.

I know 2 women, in very long term engagements (both coming up to 10 years ^being engaged^).

I think their partners definitely agreed to get engaged just to keep them quiet...and now, both women are over 40, and probably feel they've been hoodwinked, but feel, at their age, they have missed the boat with anyone else.

Very sad sad

YouOldSlag Tue 19-Feb-13 14:41:37

YABU.

DH took me to Paris, we knew he was going to propose to me there. I'd chosen the ring and our close friends knew why we were going.

I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck about what other people think of the technicalities of it.

It was special moment between us and we will have that memory when we are old. We have been through some very tough times since then, but that memory can still make me smile.

We got married 4 months later.

Bollocks to grumpy pedants! I don't believe it affected anyone else in the bloody slightest.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 19-Feb-13 14:42:11

YANBU

I don't get it either. Why announce 'oh we're getting engaged at christmas'?. Smacks of attention seeking. Why not just get engaged now?

Also, I'd be gutted if I'd known when my H was going to propose. I find it weird that people go ring shopping before the event. Shouldn't it be a surprise?

YouOldSlag Tue 19-Feb-13 14:45:28

Pobble- I think it's up to the couple since it only involves and affects them.

Do you think there should be a law?

If dear friends told me they were getting engaged at Xmas/valentine's. I'd just be happy for them. I wouldn't waste my time thinking "well technically, since you are both in agreement on the matter of matrimony, you are already engaged since engagement indicates intent".

I would just think "good for you, what nice news".

Pandemoniaa Tue 19-Feb-13 14:47:42

I think when a couple are engaged but with no actual wedding plans in sight, then I suspect that the girl was far more keen, than the bloke...and he's fobbed her off with a 'Well, we can get engaged for now, but I don't want to set a date for a couple of years

This. Although the longest engagement I've known was 23 years. In the end, most of us came to the conclusion that he'd lost the will to hold out any longer.

I can understand a certain amount of "hopefully" so far as wedding dates are concerned. ds1 and his df are currently separated by the Atlantic. Their wedding has been provisionally set for this autumn but the actual date depends on when her visa is approved. But if they were both UK citizens and resided here the date would have been set shortly after their engagement.

FakePlasticLobsters Tue 19-Feb-13 14:49:10

atthewelles the girl you worked with reminded me of a colleague of mine.

We were pregnant at around the same time, but she had already found out the sex of her baby, and named him, months before he was born, and told everyone all about it.

We didn't do that, so when DS was born and I got in touch with work to tell them about him, our colleagues did discuss it a bit more than they had with our colleague's baby. You know the sort of thing "Fake has had her baby." "Oh, what did she have? What did she call him? Oh, lovely" etc.

That didn't happen really with our other colleague because it was just "Helen's had Josh." "Oh, good."

Helen was apparently quite upset that people were 'more excited' about my baby than hers, but I don't think they were, just that they knew all the things people normally ask about in advance of her son's birth and they didn't with mine.

It didn't help that in the run up to our maternity leave starting I did get quite a lot of "not long now until you find out what you're having" and "ooh, if it's a girl you can call her after me" etc. Which they couldn't do so much with Helen because we all knew what she was having. She did get a few "not long now's" etc but there wasn't the same banter about names and sex etc with her because she'd already found out and told everyone.

Thingymajigs Tue 19-Feb-13 14:50:30

I dread the thought of getting married but would like to be engaged. I guess I see it as a private promise of commitment. I view the wedding as a bit of a showy event and marriage as a tad pointless although I can see how it works for other people.
I feel bad for DP because I know he'd like a big wedding but its just not for me, I'm far too shy. Apparently he wants to propose though.

sooperdooper Tue 19-Feb-13 14:51:53

I think if you want to have a nice memory of it, you can get engaged and then go somewhere to celebrate afterwards, it's still a nice thing to do

sooperdooper Tue 19-Feb-13 14:54:11

thingmajigs a wedding doesn't have to be showy, you can get married with a couple of witnesses and be done with it

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 19-Feb-13 14:55:07

A law? Wtf?

Yes there should be a law....

I like the surprise. H went out, bought a ring, surprised me by proposing. Same with having a baby. We didn't find out the sex. Totally agree with FakePlasticLobster's previous post about knowing too much. A friend of mine had the 4D scan, found out the gender, we all knew its full name. Obviously it was great that she arrived and mum and baby were healthy but the reaction wasn't quite the same.

I'm not saying we weren't happy, but why the need to share everything? Just because we can.

I'm aware some of that may be controversial.

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 15:02:15

YouOldSlag Surely an engagment is meant to be an announcement of your intention to get married.
Why would you also announce your intention to announce your intention to get married? confused.

And of course there's nothing wrong with flying off somewhere to celebrate your engagement. But I genuinely don't understand the concept of going somewhere to 'get engaged'.

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 15:04:16

To be honest, if it was all planned in advance I'd find it hard to keep a straight face when the bloke produced the ring and spoke his rehearsed lines.

LaQueen Tue 19-Feb-13 15:04:16

I'm just a total realist...and, I think that if both people genuinely want to get married, then they get engaged and set a wedding date soon after - and, there's a sense that they're both emotionally invested in the relationship.

When there's an engagement, but no wedding in sight...then, frankly, someone (typically the bloke) is playing for time, and hedging their bets...

To use an analogy, I've used before...an open-ended engagement is like a train - The Woman is stoking the boiler as fast and furiously as she can, all the quicker to reach the prized destination of The Wedding...

...The Bloke, is relaxing at the back of the train, secure in the knowledge that he can simply get off at the next station, if he wants.

LaQueen Tue 19-Feb-13 15:05:41

"Why would you also announce your intention to announce your intention to get married?"

At that was exactly my DH's argument through the first 10 years of our relationship...yet, when he finally did propose to me, he couldn't get me down the aisle fast enough - engaged and then married within 4 months grin

Thingymajigs Tue 19-Feb-13 15:07:10

Yes sooper I think that's what we might possibly do but I know DP would feel like he had missed out by not having a normal wedding. Anyway, my interest lies solely in the honeymoon, not the wedding. smile

Pandemoniaa Tue 19-Feb-13 15:11:36

...but I know DP would feel like he had missed out by not having a normal wedding

Cheer yourself with the knowledge that honestly, there's no such thing as a normal wedding. Some people have what is probably best described as a conventional wedding but then one couple's conventionality is another couple's idea of sheer hell.

HorizonFocus Tue 19-Feb-13 15:18:31

I agree with LaQueen. Engagement is a default state that happens because you have decided to get married but haven't yet.
What happens with these everlong engagements? Does the bloke go down on one knee and say 'shall we get engaged'? confused

When couples haven't set a date or approximate date within a month of the engagement, I assume they are just a couple with a sparkly ring, rather than actually planning to wed.

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 15:21:43

I agree Horizon. And to be honest, if I wanted an expensive wedding and knew I would need to wait a couple of years to save up, I think I would just hold off actually announcing the engagement and choosing a ring until nearer the time.

derektheladyhamster Tue 19-Feb-13 15:28:25

We decided that we wanted to get married, but we decided to wait 3 months before buying the ring/telling anyone, in case one of us changed our mind!

There was no romantic proposal, just a conversation over coffee in Mcdonalds ( I was only 23 grin) We've been married 16 years this year grin

Pandemoniaa Tue 19-Feb-13 15:33:01

I got trapped by one of those wedding forums. I went in there because someone was asking for advice about photography and then, like a rabbit in car headlights, found myself transfixed. What amazed me was the number of years that people planned to exist in an engaged state. In some cases, weddings were being planned 5 years hence.

Ironically, despite all those years to go, some brides were already getting terribly stressed about fine, but awfully trivial details. What I couldn't understand was why you'd want to plan a wedding that'd take 5 years to save up for when a very nice, but affordable day could be enjoyed so much sooner. But I guess if the wedding day is more important than the marriage, you can lose sight of the point of it all.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of these brides "planned to get engaged" for ages too.

LaQueen Tue 19-Feb-13 15:39:10

Pan the bottom line is that, sadly, an awful lot of people just want A Wedding...and, actually give nary a thought to the marriage.

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 15:43:24

I agree Pandemoniaa spending years planning and saving for a big wedding makes no sense to me. Nine times out of tens those overplanned weddings are actually identical to 95% of the weddings we've all attended and have no spark of originality, no personal touches and nothing that any of the guests will remember afterwards.
Give me a nice individual type wedding with a few quirky touches and a bit of imagination any day.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 19-Feb-13 15:43:32

There is one good wedding forum in amongst the fluff, that will tell you like it is. Many a newly engaged has had a temper tantrum at not getting the answer they expected.

YouOldSlag Tue 19-Feb-13 16:04:12

OP- our engagement was just for us. Because I'd been married before, DH to be wanted to check I hadn't been put off marriage for life so dropped massive hints and we looked at rings online.

We then went to Paris where he proposed. We both knew this was going to happen. Our families sort of had a big clue. But it wasn't until we came back that we flashed the ring and told people.

Every couple's history is different. We've been married seven years and you are the first person ever to suggest the manner of out engagement was technically incorrect.

I really don't care! We're happy and it was lovely. There isn't a rule book, nor should there be.

YABU.

LaQueen Tue 19-Feb-13 16:14:29

"Nine times out of tens those overplanned weddings are actually identical to 95% of the weddings we've all attended and have no spark of originality, no personal touches and nothing that any of the guests will remember afterwards."

Agree atwell the same brides-to-be who spend years micro-planning their weddings, and scouring every possible wedding magazine for inspiration...always have very mundane weddings...'Oh, gosh look, they're releasing doves...Oh, gosh, look, there's some fireworks...Oh, gosh, look the guests are being transported in a red, double decker bus...O, gosh, look the groom arrived in a vintage sports car...Oh, gosh look the bridesmaids are wearing 50s style dresses...Oh, gosh look they've had a pyramid of cupcakes for a wedding cake...Oh, gosh look they're having a hog-roast for the evening buffet...'

Yeah, right, whatever...and you spent 3 years planning that? Really?

YouOldSlag Tue 19-Feb-13 16:23:39

I do agree that many couples put more effort into their wedding day than they do into marriage.

I am also suspicious of engagements that last many years.

atthewelles Tue 19-Feb-13 16:24:38

But it was technically incorrect Youoldslag. No big deal or anything. If you liked it that's great but you were really already engaged when you went to Paris, you just formally announced it and wore your ring when you came home.

LaQueen you forgot the lovely chair coverings, the bouquets for the mothers, the standing up and clapping when the B&G enter the dining room, the Best Wishes email from some celeb or politician who vaguely knows the bride's parents .....

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 19-Feb-13 16:35:52

I've never heard of that before, it is a bit strange. I get the announcing you are engaged bit, but announcing the planning of the engagement...? confused

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 19-Feb-13 16:42:01

Wrt long engagements, DP proposed in October last year but we're planning on getting married next year so will have a 2 year engagement. It's not to plan anything extravagant though, we're having a fairly reasonable non showy day, but it will take us that long to save up.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 16:58:23

"Also, I'd be gutted if I'd known when my H was going to propose. I find it weird that people go ring shopping before the event. Shouldn't it be a surprise? "

the decision to marry(a lifelong commitment to share your life with someone) should be a surprise? really? isn't it far more logical to find out if your partner is on the same page as you relationship wise instead of springing a proposal on them? i said it upthread and i'll say it again. if a proposal came as a surprise to me it would be a pretty big sign that my partner and I had not been communicating well at all and that we were not at the same stage in the relationship. i find nothing appealing about having the decision to agree to marry made for me by someone else without any discussion with me.

'technically incorrect' is, forgive me, a bit of a silly thing to say.

A couple of people including me have pointed out that, in some cultures/religions, an engagement is not actually just a verbal decision to get married, it's a legal or religious ceremony.

I am perfectly ok with that being an obscure bit of trivia. But it does show it's not really as simple as you're making out, that everyone in the whole wide world is going to be exactly like you and there's a technical 'correct' and 'incorrect' way to view being engaged.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 19-Feb-13 17:21:07

"Also, I'd be gutted if I'd known when my H was going to propose. I find it weird that people go ring shopping before the event. Shouldn't it be a surprise? "

Booyhoo
The decision to marry(a lifelong commitment to share your life with someone) should be a surprise? really? isn't it far more logical to find out if your partner is on the same page as you relationship wise instead of springing a proposal on them? i said it upthread and i'll say it again. if a proposal came as a surprise to me it would be a pretty big sign that my partner and I had not been communicating well at all and that we were not at the same stage in the relationship. i find nothing appealing about having the decision to agree to marry made for me by someone else without any discussion with me.

Totally misunderstood what I said.

I wanted the proposal to be a surprise. Where did I say we hadn't talked about marriage? We knew we wanted to get engaged, I just didn't know when it would happen.

Talk about jumping to conclusions!

poozlepants Tue 19-Feb-13 17:23:49

I am reading some of these stories and cringing. It's just all so attention seeking, self aggrandising and immature.
A member of my family went on holiday and announced they would be getting engaged but it would be a surprise as she didn't know where or which day he was going to do it. Then he asked her and produced a ring that wasn't an engagement ring but a ring which she had chosen which was to show she was engaged before she went to pick her proper engagement ring. We were then subject to nauseating emails and facebook messages about how moving the whole experience was and how surprised she was.
After they were married which unsurprisingly was a giant production she phoned round the family to annouce they were now officially trying for a baby. That ideally she would be pregnant by x and the baby born in y.
They think they are so classy it's hilarious.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 17:28:40

"Talk about jumping to conclusions! "

so you had already agreed to get married you just wanted to pretend to be surprised when he went through the motions of 'asking you to marry him' when in actual fact he knew the answer, you knew the answer and it wasn't a surprise at all? can you tell me why pretending to be surprised was so important to you?

Does it matter? confused

I can't imagine anything I'd like less than a 'surprise' proposal with a ring someone else chose. OTOH DH quite enjoyed it so I was perfectly happy to do it for him. I do not see why this matters.

Surely the cringey thing is announcing it in a way that suggests other people should give you masses of attention?

elliejjtiny Tue 19-Feb-13 17:56:53

I think some people want to have as much fuss and make as many announcements as possible.

When DH and I got engaged he wanted to do a "proper" get down on one knee proposal and I wanted to pick the ring I was going to wear for ever until my fingers got too fat. Also we both felt that agreeing to get married should be a discussion rather than DH asking and me accepting or declining. So we had the discussion and picked the ring together about 2 months before DH asked my dad for permission and then proposed. But we didn't tell anyone before then apart from me warning my dad so DH's phonecall didn't come out of the blue grin.

FellatioNels0n Tue 19-Feb-13 17:58:07

YABNU.

FellatioNels0n Tue 19-Feb-13 17:59:15

I also don't understand people who get engaged and then say we are planning to get married in the summer of 2015. confused

FellatioNels0n Tue 19-Feb-13 18:01:01

I agree I would want to pick the ring, but I think once you've decided, just go off and do it. Having a plan to get engaged on a particular day/week is a bit daft. And personally I find engagement parties daft and outdated.

FellatioNels0n Tue 19-Feb-13 18:04:35

Sorry, I'm making no sense. In an ideal world, the proposal itself would be a bit of a romantic surprise, either planned, or spontaneous, but I'd prefer to be able to chose the ring myself after I'd been asked, and had accepted.

The next step would be to announce it to family and friends, together, probably once we had the ring, but not necessarily. There would be no party and no nonsense.

Then the wedding should happen within a year.

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 19-Feb-13 18:04:52

I think 2 years to save up and plan a wedding is fine fellatio, I don't understand the problem you have with understanding why? Weddings are expensive and even a small wedding can cost a few grand, some people need that time to save up.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 19-Feb-13 18:11:17

I don't think I really want to as you're being quite rude.

Yes I stuck a pretend smile on my face, pretended to look shocked and said yes. He pretended to be shocked at my reply.

We'd got to the point in our relationship where we had discussed marriage and children. I has no idea when he would propose, I genuinely thought we would have a baby first.

So yes I was surprised. Get over it.

FellatioNels0n Tue 19-Feb-13 18:17:19

OK, so I suppose up to two years is acceptable on those grounds. But people who stay engaged for years on end with no plans to actually get on with it look a bit silly. Why don't they just settle for living together? The marriage thing is clearly not that important to them, if they have not felt compelled to do it after for four or five years of supposed engagement. There is no law that says you must have a big expensive white wedding, after all. Some people are obsessed with getting engaged at the first opportunity just to get a ring on their finger and get ownership of their man.

YouOldSlag Tue 19-Feb-13 18:22:10

the decision to marry(a lifelong commitment to share your life with someone) should be a surprise? really? isn't it far more logical to find out if your partner is on the same page as you relationship wise instead of springing a proposal on them? i said it upthread and i'll say it again. if a proposal came as a surprise to me it would be a pretty big sign that my partner and I had not been communicating well at all and that we were not at the same stage in the relationship. i find nothing appealing about having the decision to agree to marry made for me by someone else without any discussion with me.

Absolutely spot on Booyhoo. All this stuff about waiting for the man to surprise you is bollocks.

The actual giving of the ring was an important moment to me and DH. Should I have checked about the technicality of being given an engagement ring whilst already engaged? Or should I just unclench and enjoy life without pedantry?

Pigsmummy Tue 19-Feb-13 18:25:21

When I was a travel agent I booked a couple on a break to Paris, as they were going to "get engaged" there?! I took their booking and wished them well but genuinely think that they missed the point tbh

YouOldSlag Tue 19-Feb-13 18:28:00

Pigs- that what I did. I didn't miss the point. We had a lovely time and I came back wearing a ring.

I agree with Worra's post on p1. People get excited about future events. Why the nitpicking?

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 18:31:04

"I don't think I really want to as you're being quite rude.

Yes I stuck a pretend smile on my face, pretended to look shocked and said yes. He pretended to be shocked at my reply.

We'd got to the point in our relationship where we had discussed marriage and children. I has no idea when he would propose, I genuinely thought we would have a baby first.

So yes I was surprised. Get over it. "

life must be quite hard for these people who interpret someone disagreeing with them as being rude.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 19-Feb-13 18:40:57

My engagement was apparently a pretence and oh yes, it was all his decision as we don't communicate. Apparently.

Maybe I'm just not uptight, some people obviously like their lives mapped out down to the last detail. Including the day they get engaged.

nkf Tue 19-Feb-13 18:42:54

It's totally weird. And all those people who've looked at rings together and discussed marriage. It's just one of those things you either get or you don't get. I don't get it at all but there you go.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 18:49:37

well it was a going through the motions wasn't it? as you say you had already agreed to get married so the asking wasn't really asking it was just going through the motions of proposing as he already knew you were going to marry him. the only surprising bit was that you weren't sure what date you would have to pretend to be surprised on really.

"Maybe I'm just not uptight, some people obviously like their lives mapped out down to the last detail. Including the day they get engaged. "

yeah you're a real fly by the seat of your pants gal. you let him 'surprise' you with a proposal that you had already discussed and agreed upon hmm

nkf Tue 19-Feb-13 18:58:59

It's showing off really. It's look at me. I've decided to do something in the future. Aren't you interested?

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 19-Feb-13 19:40:33

Well at least I'm not an attention seeker. 'oh I'm getting engaged next week'. How interesting. Let me pretend to be surprised for you.

Obviously I've perfected my surprised look being as I had it when I was proposed to.

FakePlasticLobsters Tue 19-Feb-13 19:51:06

I think there is a difference between discussing the stage your relationship is at and being aware that your partner is thinking along the same lines as you with regards to marriage and actually announcing "We are getting engaged on X date" though, which I think is what the OP was talking about.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 19:51:33

confused

i didn't say you were attention seeking.

FakePlasticLobsters Tue 19-Feb-13 19:52:23

Thread has moved on since my phone rang, sorry.

Booyhoo Tue 19-Feb-13 19:56:02

i agree fake
for me, having that discussion about marriage and agreeing that you will is getting engaged. it is a bit odd to agree to get married and based on that conversation then announce that you intend to agree to get married again at xmas/on holiday/whatever. you have already gotten engaged!

Aftereightsarenolongermine Tue 19-Feb-13 21:06:36

As LRD has said as have I there may well be religious/cultural reasons that you may not be aware of. Even though I knew I was going to get engaged (shock horror) We could not wear our rings until they had been blessed by our priest in a religious ceremony attended by our families & more specifically our witnesses. It would not have been a valid engagement in the eyes of our church unless the priest had done so.

So yes actually I think quite a lot of you are being quite rude in thinking that your way is the correct way whereas in other cultures & countries your way would be invalid.

DP and I are technically engaged by these standards I suppose. We know we're gong to marry and if people ask us we tell them it'll happen when he leaves uni in three years time. But I wouldn't say we're engaged.

It's not official, it's not something we have told family/friends about really (unless asked, or if people ask us what we are saving for and the answer is "Wedding, house, kids and future really..."), there's no ring, etc. When either of us pops the question and it becomes 'official' I'd say we're engaged.

I don't think I've heard anybody say that they'll get engaged at X time or place!

You lot are putting me off of the tradition of asking the parent though! never really thought about it before!

Are you Orthodox too, aftereight? (Just being nosy, btw). That's what DH is.

Aftereightsarenolongermine Tue 19-Feb-13 21:22:29

LRD yes I am suppose the priest blessing the rings gave it away...,

grin

Pretty much.

Aftereightsarenolongermine Tue 19-Feb-13 21:25:31

LRD grin

weegiemum Tue 19-Feb-13 21:26:28

Odd. We got the ring. then we went to visit my folks. Dh was v trafitional, asked my dad for my hand (this was 20 years ago!).

Then we went out for a walk and he did a formal proposal. But I'd already said "yes" weeks ago when we bought the ring (he was a 5th yR medical student, it was £27 from Ratners!) so our walk was a 'formality'. Dad was som"surprised" that he had had champagne in the fridge from before we arrived that morning!!!

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 08:43:53

It's showing off really. It's look at me. I've decided to do something in the future. Aren't you interested?

How could discussing future plans and intentions with close friends or family be showing off? To me, that would be normal conversation along the lines of I want to change career or I'm planning Baby No 3, or we're going to move house.

Normal!

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 11:51:34

I think its perfectly clear from my OP that I wasn't talking about people in specific cultures where there are rituals around the engagement process.
Why do some posters always do this kind of thing <sigh>,

Anyway, in my view, (and if you are not part of a religion or culture where you have to get engagement rings blessed etc) once you have agreed to get married and are about to plan your wedding you are engaged, whether or not you have a ring and if you have no plans to get married or organise a wedding you are not engaged even if you have a couple of grands worth of diamond flashing away on your left hand.

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 11:56:09

TBH Op I don't think anyone will alter their stance because of someone else's pedantry. When people say they are getting engaged I always think "that's when she gets the ring", and I wish them well. I don't sit there and nitpick in my head about technicalities.

I find this thread a bit mean and bad natured. People are happy. Let them be happy.

It is not harming anyone.

Alright, calm down. It wasn't obvious to me, but fair enough.

All I was doing was illustrating that you're wrong about how engagements work in some cultures/religions, and you're being a bit daft to assume everyone else will agree with you.

I don't fancy the whole 'ooh, I'm getting engaged next summer and we'll spend the next six years talking about a wedding in a castle before splitting up', but if other people do I don't quite get why it matters. And I am quite a judgy person.

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 12:07:38

Where did I 'assume everyone else will agree with me'? And where did I mention how engagements work in some cultures and religitons. You seem to be reading things into my post that aren't there at all and going off on a complete tangetn. Fair enough, but don't then try to twist things around to suit your argument.

YouOldSlag The majority of people on this thread have agreed that they don't 'get' couples announcing their intention to get engaged as they see the engagement commencing at the time the two people agree to get married. There is nothing mean minded and nasty about that, simply because you don't agree with them. You can argue your point without resorting to name calling, you know.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 12:10:24

LRD To be fair, very, very few people who get engaged in this country & within our culture go through a "getting the rings blessed" formality thing.

I think it was abundantly clear that the OP was not talking about that.

People who rabbit on about "going to get engaged" are usually showing off and milking their moment in the spotlight, which is what so many weddings seem to be about these days.

It is, as others have said, really childish.

And, yes, YouOldSlag - of course people are entitled to, and yes, it's nice that they are happy (for the 12 months that the marriage lasts) but that doesn't mean that we can't discuss it, surely? Isn't that what a discussion forum is meant to be for?

It just felt as if you thought you were right, atthe. You seem to think there's some completely objective meaning to 'being engaged'. There isn't. Sorry.

ellie - I know. That's not why I mentioned it. I mentioned it because the OP seems to reckon everyone ought to view 'being engaged' the same way. Obviously, they don't. Examples like mine or the other people on this thread only demonstrate the extremes - that some people view engagement in very different ways. But you'd also expect loads of people to disagree more simply with the OP.

I just don't get why she assumes her way is the only right way. It's peculiar.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 12:17:31

I just don't get why she assumes her way is the only right way. It's peculiar

She doesn't. She assumes that her definition is the prevailing one in this country (an agreement to get married, nothing more) - and she's right. It is.

We-eeeel .... I think she does rather assume. Her definition isn't the prevailing one in this country. Shedloads of people do the whole 'we will get engaged at Christmas' thing, and loads more get engaged but don't plan to get married.

Personally I think they're odd, but I do recognize that they are just seeing what 'being engaged' means differently from me. Or from her.

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 12:30:53

I don't assume my way is the right way. I personally don't understand people announcing that they're 'going to get engaged' and many many posters have agreed with me and we have all explained our reasons. However, you seem to have taken umbrage over this for some reason confused. Feel free to disagree with my view by all means (some other posters have) but stop being so tight lipped about it.

Ok, fair enough.

I'm not taking umbrage, just confused why you think you should have to understand. Not everyone is like you. It's no big deal - just live and let live, eh?

They're happy. You can tune out the engagement babble if you don't like it. Nobody dies.

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 12:36:30

I don't think I have to understand. This is a forum, people share things that they find strange or annoying or upsetting or irritating and other people give their views. If you don't like the thread fine, don't read it. But loads of people have joined in the discussion. We're just enjoying a bit of a chat about something not particularly earth shattering or crucial. Is that okay?

I was perfectly happy with the thread, I thought it was all quite interesting. In fact I sort of assumed that was the idea, until just now.

Sorry about that.

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 13:46:17

And, yes, YouOldSlag - of course people are entitled to, and yes, it's nice that they are happy (for the 12 months that the marriage lasts) but that doesn't mean that we can't discuss it, surely? Isn't that what a discussion forum is meant to be for?

What a ridiculous assumption. I went to Paris to "get engaged" and we've been married 7 years.

I am aware of what discussion forums are about, yes, thank you.

I just think this is a killjoy miserable thread and if people want to get excited about being engaged and getting a ring, I'm happy for them.

I don't see it as attention seeking or milking it, I see it as a couple telling close friends and family that their relationship has moved up a step and he will be buying her a ring.

I would be happy for them. I would not think they were attention seeking, nor would I point out that the fact they have agreed on matrimony is as good as a betrothal and anything in excess of that is now superfluous.

I would simply think "Hooray, Bob and Sue are going all the way!"

LaQueen Wed 20-Feb-13 13:48:56

I suppose I consider people who make an excited fuss about when they're getting engaged...and then the subsequent fuss of the actual engagement...well, a bit emotionally immature, I suppose?

I think the type of person (and it's invariably the woman, I think) who behaves like this is probably quite attention seeking...always wanting some sparkle and glitter...wanting to the the centre of everyone's world, maybe?

I don't think it's wrong per se...but, I do think it shows a certain superficiality of emotion.

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 13:54:42

Well I was 36 when DH whisked me off to Paris to give me the ring. We had talked marriage through in principle and since I was pregnant already and we were living together, it wasn't massive shock when we came back saying we were engaged. We both knew why we were going, and I knew he had the ring.

I don't think it was attention seeking. I certainly was not emotionally immature. We talked at length about marriage prior to getting the ring on my finger as marriage is a massive decision that needs planning and talking through.

Kind of the opposite of emotionally immature I'd say.

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 13:55:49

I think the type of person (and it's invariably the woman, I think) who behaves like this is probably quite attention seeking...always wanting some sparkle and glitter...wanting to the the centre of everyone's world, maybe?

I'm sure you may be right in some cases, but it does sound like a very sweeping generalisation.

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 14:02:46

I just think this is a killjoy miserable thread quote

What a precious, whingy comment. So, not everyone understands the point of setting a date to 'get engaged' and announcing this beforehand. Live with it. Why do you care what we think? We're just expressing a view, that's all.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 14:23:20

I am aware of what discussion forums are about, yes, thank you Then stop moaning about the fact that other people are discussing something and coming up with a different viewpoint to you.

I think going to Paris to "get engaged" is pathetic. To celebrate the engagement, fine. To "get engaged" is meaningless. If you had already agreed to get married, you were already engaged.

And sorry, your personal experience aside, there's little doubt that for lots of people it's all about their BIG DAY and such marriages barely make it to the end of the year. The fact that YOU have been married for 7 years (whoooo-hoooooo!) doesn't negate that.

Isn't there a certain irony, though, it kicking off an entire thread in order to make a fuss about someone else's engagement. I mean, blimey, if you think they're making a fuss, then ...

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 14:33:35

You're at it again LRD. <sigh>

It was a light hearted thread about something that I (and a lot of people as is obvious on here) don't really 'get'. Stop trying to make out it was anything more than that or that anyone is 'kicking up a fuss' about it. What a ridiculous statement.
Actually, I'm not engaging with you anymore because you're repeated attempts to twist and turn things are just becoming silly and pointless.

At what?

I'm disagreeing with you, fairly light-heartedly.

Why does it bother you?

There is no need to lose your temper about it. If you didn't fancy chatting, you probably shouldn't have started the thread, eh? Not everyone is going to agree with you, and some of us are going to take the piss a bit when you start getting silly.

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 14:45:39

Yes, whatever LRD. hmm

BelleEtLaBaby Wed 20-Feb-13 15:11:09

A lot of engagement stuff is so bonkers.

My dh's best mate has my favourite judgy engagement story ever smile

When I got together with dh, and met his friend and gf for the first time, she told me that night that she thought he was going to propose. I asked her what made her think that and she said 'because I told him to' hmm

He'd been carrying the ring in his pocket for two weeks (!) and had shown literally everyone we knew, barmaid in pubs, you name it, all the while she pretended not to know. Eventually, on NYE that year, he took her to central London with the intention of proposing at midnight on the bridge. However, she had grilled me and dh on his intentions and was not happy as it wasn't what she had really wanted. She had dropped hints to dh to try and dissuade friend from doing it shock

Midnight approached and she 'had a panic attack' hmm as she said she thought there would be a bomb on the bridge and made a huge fuss. So he missed midnight. About an hour later they were sitting on a bench on the south bank, alone, and he did it then. She accepted, called us to tell us (no, really!?) and all seemed fine. They had a really awful engagement party in central London with a James bond theme, she employed me to make her a bespoke dress (like Vesper Lynd), there was a gift list and he made a speech about how lovely she was (which I know she wrote most of). It was deeply cringy. She dieted especially for the party as they had a professional photographer shock

A month later, she called me and asked me if she could come over, and could I make sure dh was there, but not to tell her fiancée. She basically told us that she hated the way he had proposed, and couldn't live with it, and could we intervene and tell him to propose again, in the following manner: on a blanket (which she had brought to give us!) in her parents back garden, under the stars, with champagne. She even had a plan for me to 'secretly' get hold of her engagement ring so he could give it to her again.

She'd made a cd of 'appropriate music' shock

After she left, dh and I were gobsmacked. Friend had put a lot of thought into trying to make a proposal she would remember. She was upset as she didn't feel it was special or personal (?) enough, and that because she was in winter gear (for December midnight on tower bridge) and she wanted to be wearing a specific outfit she'd chosen, and that it was not the date she wanted... Etc etc.

We never said anything to dh's friend. He'd have been heartbroken. They split up a year later after a year of massive bridezilla-y behaviour including plans to ride into her wedding on a white horse which were scuppered as she could not find a horse which was 'white enough'.

Dh proposed to me on the sofa, in my slobs, one Sunday morning. We got married a year later. Couldn't tell you the date of the proposal for my life, nor the actual words he used. We'd discussed wether we wanted to get married, but never actually agreed to do it until that morning. He had a ring (very lovely) and we didn't tell anyone we were engaged for two weeks as I was in the middle of finals and woefully underprepared and we didn't want endless phone calls distracting from that smile I passed, we told our families, that was that, really. I'm not sure why it's something I was expected to want everyone I've ever met to be interested in, frankly. smile

Crikey. Now that's impressively terrifying.

Poor bloke, though. He must have really liked her to do all of that, and then for her to be like that. sad

The nastiest engagement story I know - two brothers were going out with two woman who were sisters. The younger brother proposed, all very sweet. So three days later big brother proposes and - get this - does it with a ring that is identical to the first brother's one, but has three diamonds instead of one. It was literally the upgraded version, next to the first one in the catalogue.

I mean, how cruel. I'm not wild about people getting precious about what other couples do on their 'special day', but that did seem to be to be quite pointed.

Lottapianos Wed 20-Feb-13 15:28:43

That's deeply batshit Belle. I'm glad your mate got rid of her.

I once went to an engagement party of a colleague who I didn't know very well. It was one of these 'whirlwind' relationships, they had only known each other for 2 months or something (mental if you ask me but anyway...)
the 'groom' or whatever (my colleague) made a mortifying speech about how he had fallen in love with this woman and finished up by asking each person in the room to 'say a few word's about what a wonderful couple they were. Hardly anyone in the room knew her and it was just total cringe.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 15:28:57

Belle That story is brilliant. This "miserable" thread is worth it just to read that! grin

That is monumentally wankerish, lotta.

It's not comparable, but it reminds me of a mate who invited a load of us to her birthday party then demanded that, instead of presents, we should each prepare a 'presentation' on the theme of friendship.

hmm

Funnily enough, I gave that one a miss.

Great story Belle.

I do, accidentally, know roughly when DH proposed - because we were --drunk and--watching the Eurovision Song Contest - which we now do every year, complete with "carpet picnic", although we have never told anyone in RL why we do that (and yes, I know it's not on the same date every year, but it's close enough, and since DH can never remember our wedding anniversary I will take what I can get grin)

Booyhoo Wed 20-Feb-13 15:34:56

shock belle that is insane!

it has reminded me of a woman i know who was had been out for dinner with her OH. they had already told everyone they would be getting married. the whole family knew. I thought they were engaged (tbh i hadn't noticed that there was no ring). anyway she was at my mum's house with other family after the meal and someone (cant remember who) asked if there had been a proposal during the meal. she responded "christ no! i've told him i want him pulling rabbits out of his arse for the proposal" confused

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 15:51:42

Great story Belle. So glad I 'kicked off' this miserable thread.

Seriously, some people shouldn't be let out in public, never mind be allowed to get married.

atthewelles Wed 20-Feb-13 15:52:21

ps love the line about the horse not being 'white enough' grin

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 18:26:31

*I think going to Paris to "get engaged" is pathetic. To celebrate the engagement, fine. To "get engaged" is meaningless. If you had already agreed to get married, you were already engaged.

And sorry, your personal experience aside, there's little doubt that for lots of people it's all about their BIG DAY and such marriages barely make it to the end of the year. The fact that YOU have been married for 7 years (whoooo-hoooooo!) doesn't negate that.*

Ellie, what an uncalled for and bitchy remark.

Our engagement/proposal/whatever was a private moment between us, no friends or family present and I really didn't think I would ever come across anyone who would tell me it was pathetic or meaningless.

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 18:30:12

*I think going to Paris to "get engaged" is pathetic. To celebrate the engagement, fine. To "get engaged" is meaningless. If you had already agreed to get married, you were already engaged.

And sorry, your personal experience aside, there's little doubt that for lots of people it's all about their BIG DAY and such marriages barely make it to the end of the year. The fact that YOU have been married for 7 years (whoooo-hoooooo!) doesn't negate that.*

Ellie, what an uncalled for and bitchy remark.

Our engagement/proposal/whatever was a private moment between us, no friends or family present and I really didn't think I would ever come across anyone who would tell me it was pathetic or meaningless.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 18:35:00

Was responding to your "what a ridiculous assumption" remark.

If you're going to talk like that to me, expect a similar response.

OK?

"Our engagement/proposal/whatever was a private moment between us" What are you telling me for then?

BookWormery Wed 20-Feb-13 19:00:14

Killjoy miserableists are my absolute favourite type of people. People who get 'whisked off to Paris' (as opposed to 'went to Paris') my least favourite. I suspect those that feel similarly hate this bullshit and those that don't, love it.

Anyway, loving this thread!

smellysocksandchickenpox Wed 20-Feb-13 19:00:21

Most pathetic engagement I've known:

engagement part 1 (and only IMO): out to dinner, he says he wants to marry her, she says she wants to marry him but he had to get down on one knee with a ring. At this point I consider them engaged personally!

engagement no2: he gets ring following the dinner (chosen by her, friends instructed to tell him which one to get), he is liasing with their friends about how and where to do "the proposal", but ends up getting down on one knee somewhere non significant after a few drinks and saying "will you marry me".... again she says "you know I will, but you have to ask me properly

engagement no3, the one SHE counts as when they got engaged: go out for posh dinner "to get engaged", she's been to beautician and hairdresser for the occassion, he orders champagne, gets attention of whole restaraunt, gets down on one knee, she blubs and does a big "OH MY GOD I CAN'T BELIEVE IT" performance hmm

we're all invited round to "see the ring" - never mind that he's already shown us all and she's been emailing us all links to pics of it for weeks...... THIS WAS NOT THE OFFICIAL ENGAGEMENT PARTY!! oh no that was yet to come!!

idiots!

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 19:22:37

"Our engagement/proposal/whatever was a private moment between us" What are you telling me for then?

because many comments on this thread imply that planning to get engaged is a form of attention seeking. I was countering that with a response that a quiet trip abroad alone together is not attention seeking.

Good God alive, this thread has got so nasty. Sometimes the vitriol on MN astounds me. I've been here five years and cannot believe some of this.

And it's all about people getting engaged. The bastards.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 19:28:02

Excuse me - but really. You thundered onto this thread, telling us all off for daring to be discussing something & coming up with a different POV to you & then calling my (perfectly justified) comments "ridiculous".

You cannot have it all your own way. If you're going to call us all miserable killjoys then you are not exactly endearing yourself to us, are you? At least one person (moi) is likely to play you at your own game.

You want to be treated with respect? You first.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 19:29:32

I love that story, Smelly. Are they still together? The wedding should be a hoot wink

Booyhoo Wed 20-Feb-13 19:40:27

i'm with youold this has turned awful. ellie you are being very schoolgirl.

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 19:41:41

Ellie, nobody ever "thunders" on to a thread. It's called joining in.

I called your POV ridiculous because you implied that people who "plan" to get engaged only last 12 months. I still maintain that is a sweeping and groundless statement.

I still think that if people are planning to get engaged i.e to many people this means the moment the ring goes on, then let them. Anger and slagging it off does seem a bit mean to me when these people are neither hurting anyone nor asking anyone to pay for the ring.

That is why I called it a killjoy thing as I think "planning" to get engaged is completely harmless and up to the couple involved.

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 19:42:26

I do think engagement parties should die out though since weddings have become such a circus now.

NotDavidTennant Wed 20-Feb-13 19:44:48

Wow, I didn't realise that my & DWs engagement broke so many Mumsnest faux pas.

We informally agreed that we were going to get married but didn't consider ourselves to be offically engaged yet...

Then we went to buy the engagement ring together (DW wouldn't dare trust me to pick a decent one on my own) and I hid it away in anticipation of doing a traditional "down on one knee" proposal...

Said proposal happened at a suprise engagement party I arranged...

After which everyone proceeded to have a piss up!

I shall await my banishment to Netmums. wink

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 19:50:31

Am I? Oh well. There are worse things to be....

You Fine. You were very dismissive & rather rude about everyone's POV - even suggesting that we shouldn't discuss it at all hmm Your tone was not one of "joining in", it was telling us off.

As a rule of thumb, I think planning to get engaged is silly & childish, and is the kind of thing that's seen on TOWIE.

Do people have the right? Sure. Do I have the right to pass comment and say what I think? Also - sure.

That's life.

And I would rather be a miserable, killjoy of a schoolgirl than someone intent on creating their own Mills & Boon story.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Wed 20-Feb-13 19:54:27

YouOldSlag Wed 20-Feb-13 19:22:37

because many comments on this thread imply that planning to get engaged is a form of attention seeking. I was countering that with a response that a quiet trip abroad alone together is not attention seeking

But you'd told everybody first (please tell me if I'm wrong). That's the bit that baffles me. It's all a bit...rehearsed.

It's the telling everyone you're going to do it, that I don't understand. Why not just go and do it? Then tell everyone when you got back.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 19:54:30

I do think engagement parties should die out though since weddings have become such a circus now

HOW VERY DARE YOU?? What a sweeping generalisation. You are being RIDICULOUS.

My wedding was quiet and sedate. We had 8 people, including the Vicar and had pie and mash down the pub. It was precious - I am appalled that you would call it a "circus"!

(Do you see? The whole comment was not about you personally, but you took it personally. Big mistake).

But I shouldn't have used the word "pathetic". That was provocative & wrong.

germyrabbit Wed 20-Feb-13 19:55:34

people can do what the fuck they choose to do, thankfully we live in a free world where if we want to celebrate and announce our engagement to the whole world we can.

god some sour people on mn atm

Booyhoo Wed 20-Feb-13 19:58:37

"But I shouldn't have used the word "pathetic". That was provocative & wrong. And I'm sorry "

wink

MarkGruffalohohoho Wed 20-Feb-13 20:03:08

On behalf of Youoldslag who is sobbing on another thread Allez vous faire foutre vos cons miserables**....as they might say in Paris smile

**Bugger off you miserable cunts

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 20:10:34

I'm not though, BooYoo, so find someone else to patronise wink

Booyhoo Wed 20-Feb-13 20:12:08

you aren't sorry? for doing something you admit was wrong? why not? confused

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 20:14:16

On behalf of Youoldslag who is sobbing on another thread

Is she? Perhaps "pathetic" was not the wrong choice of word then.

Booyhoo Wed 20-Feb-13 20:16:52

do you even know why she is sobbing before calling her pathetic? you aren't coming across as a nice person at all ellie.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 20:18:55

"Sorry" suggests an emotion I am not inclined to feel given her earlier attitude.

Objectively, I should have tempered my language.

Gosh, it's really bugging me who you used to be now, Ellie <thinks>

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 20:22:00

Well, presumably it's over what a complete stranger thinks about an event they weren't there to witness 7 years ago!

Good grief.

And I thought the religious threads were bad for precious, hurt feelings.

Figgygal Wed 20-Feb-13 20:22:46

smelly your friends are twats of the highest order grin

Booyhoo Wed 20-Feb-13 20:25:50

no, not nice at all.

EllieArroway Wed 20-Feb-13 20:29:53

I'll live.

ChaChaDigregorio Wed 20-Feb-13 20:32:37

Not bothered either way. Am bothered by people talking to others on here in a way that they wouldn't dare to in RL. Horrible, horrible.

VitoCorleone Wed 20-Feb-13 21:22:44

On another site i was on somebody actually had a 'ticker' saying..

"3 years, 6 months 1 week and 4 days until we start TTC baby number 3"

I kid you not it was well over 3 years away, and i thought "you know the exact date, almost 4 years into the future when you're gonna start trying for a baby? Why?!"

Pure crazyness and probably completly off topic

tametortie Wed 20-Feb-13 23:51:12

What an awful thread! Have just read it from the start and am disgusted.

nasty nasty nasty.

MN at its worst.

FakePlasticLobsters Thu 21-Feb-13 00:30:40

It wasn't awful at the start. It was a genuine discussion about what point do a couple actually become engaged.

And the two prevailing ideas from the thread are either when they discuss marriage and both seem to be in agreement that that is where they want their relationship to go or at some set date in the future when a ring/big party/special location/large crowd of witnesses/priests ring blessing has been arranged.

And the OP's original question was a simple one. If you have reached the point of telling people that you are getting engaged at a set date in the future, or even just agreed with each other to get engaged soon, are you actually and in fact already engaged from that point on.

Bessie123 Thu 21-Feb-13 00:37:07

Wow, I just came on this thread to be nosy, I didn't expect to feel disgusted. laqueen do you have to be so unpleasant in all your posts?

The problem is, I reckon, that all this getting engaged business is important to some people and loads of you are shitting all over it.

Booyhoo Thu 21-Feb-13 00:40:43

this definitely isn't MN at it's worst. i've seen far worse than this. nonetheless this did get unnecessarily nasty and hurtful.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 10:06:29

people can do what the fuck they choose to do, thankfully we live in a free world where if we want to celebrate and announce our engagement to the whole world we can.

god some sour people on mn atm Quote

I really have to take issue with that. I started this thread questioning the concept of announcing in advance that you were going to get engaged as I assumed the moment you became engaged was the moment you both decided to get married.
It had nothing to do with people celebrating and announcing their engagement and your post is unfair.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 10:08:57

As is Tametortie's

Question individual posts if you find them nasty. Do not generalise about a thread that started with a genuine question. I think it is posts like your's that are MN at its worst ie distorting other people's posts and then name calling. That happens a lot on here and is deeply unpleasant.

ChestyLeRoux Thu 21-Feb-13 10:25:08

My mum and dad knew we were getting engaged but no one else did.However we had only knew each other 2 months,we were both 18,my mum picked my engagement ring! and dh took out his entire full time pay packet on day 1 of the month to pay for it in cash and then we lived like tramps for the rest of month.grin

We were young and in love though and weve been married years now and I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

perplexedpirate Thu 21-Feb-13 10:32:56

big announcement
I am planning to comment on the thread!

<puts out bunting>

perplexedpirate Thu 21-Feb-13 10:36:40

Ok, here it is.
I don't see the point of planning an engagement at all BUT some people on here are coming across like they have sand in their vaginas.
I mean, it's not thing people can do is it?

FakePlasticLobsters Thu 21-Feb-13 10:45:23

"The problem is, I reckon, that all this getting engaged business is important to some people and loads of you are shitting all over it."

Getting engaged was important to me, and it happened over the phone during a conversation about what we both wanted in the future of our relationship. We didn't even get to see each other for another week after that, and it took a couple more weeks to find a ring. But we were engaged from that moment on the phone and when we told people, we told them that we were engaged, not getting engaged, and it was no less important to us than to someone who plans an engagement for six months down the line and then spends those six months telling all and sundry about it.

Which was the point of the OP's question. If you say you are getting engaged in six months time, and you are both aware of the fact and agreed to it, to the point of announcing that you will be getting engaged on X date to friends and family, aren't you actually already engaged from that point on?

It's not shitting all over someone else's choice to ask that question, any more than it is to suggest that the people who don't announce that they will be getting engaged in six months time and instead just get engaged have not discussed it properly or don't view it as being as important as others do.

MrsWolowitzerables Thu 21-Feb-13 10:48:30

Oh what a horrible thread.

Ellie you have been so unkind. Very unnecessary and mean.

I was initially going at agree with the OP although its different strokes for different folks and it doesn't hurt anybody.

This thread has gone tits up though and shows MN at its very worst. I've been here for years under various names and tell my RL friends how great MN is, then I see a thread like this and remember that there's a few right knobs on here. Shame.

MrsWolowitzerables Thu 21-Feb-13 10:50:33

Arf at "sand in their vaginas"! grin

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 10:53:37

Will people please stop saying the thread is awful. There are loads and loads of perfectly normal posts on this thread, in fact they are probably in the vast majority sad

MrsWolowitzerables Thu 21-Feb-13 11:09:04

atthewelles now you're taking things personally. It's not your OP that was horrible it's the way the thread has gone. A poster was called 'pathetic' and her engagement labelled 'meaningless'.

Yes, there are normal, rational posters on this thread but there has also been considerable nastiness and sneering. The end result being that this thread is unpleasant.

sapphirestar Thu 21-Feb-13 11:10:22

What MrsWolowitzerables said

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 11:13:29

Well I am taking it personally because when people say 'oh what a nasty thread' it sounds as if they're saying the topic of thread is a nasty one. But obviously that's not what you meant smile

WorraLiberty Thu 21-Feb-13 11:25:54

OMG there are some pedantic, joyless, fun sucking people around! grin

What happened to romance?

YOS, your engagement sounds wonderful and something you'll always have to look back on and smile.

If you went to Paris to get engaged, then you went to Paris to get engaged - it's that simple and whoever said it was pathetic, needs to take a long hard look at why they felt the need to piss on your chips.

sapphirestar Thu 21-Feb-13 11:30:08

Hear hear Worra, I saw YOS on the other thread and felt really sorry for her!
Would the people calling her pathetic have felt the need to reduce her to tears had they seen her at a coffee shop or toddler group??

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 11:33:35

What was the other thread?

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 11:36:30

"Wow, I just came on this thread to be nosy, I didn't expect to feel disgusted. laqueen do you have to be so unpleasant in all your posts?"

bessie I fail to see where I have been so unpleasant? I've just observed that in my opinion I'm very skeptical about long, endless engagements with no wedding in sight.

How is that unpleasant hmm

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 11:38:40

Of course, I completely do understand, that if you happen to be in one of those long, endless engagements and your fiance is no nearer to agreeing to a wedding date, than he was 4 years ago...then I can see why someone would find my observations somewhat too near the truth unpleasant...

sapphirestar Thu 21-Feb-13 11:39:58

YOS was upset at people calling her engagement 'pathetic and meaningless' and the fact that she was letting it bother her

HerbyVore Thu 21-Feb-13 11:43:16

I find it astounding that LaQueen's 'IMO' post was singled out when other people are being utter cunts on this thread.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 11:46:06

I actually went back through the thread to see had LaQueen made some posts I'd missed. I too find it hard to understand why her posts were singled out.

ChestyLeRoux Thu 21-Feb-13 11:49:12

A long engagement isnt really that different to being with somebody years and years before you get engaged.Personally in both situations I often wonder what kept them so long from marrying,and why didnt they do it a lot earlier on and especially if they have ever broken up temporarily during that time.

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 11:58:22

Herby me too, I checked back (thinking I'd maybe written some nasty posts in my sleep, or somefink?).

But, no nothing...unless, of course what I posted really hit a raw nerve with someone, who is presumably on the wrong end of a 5 year engagement with no end in sight hmm

FellatioNels0n Thu 21-Feb-13 12:01:57

I think some of the comments have been uncalled for and a bit insensitive (although not LaQueen's particularly so why she has been singled out I don't know. confused)

The thing that bewilders people is that you either have a general assumption/understanding that you want to stay together for life, and no-one needs to formally propose to anyone, OR you can just decide in a lovely post-coital chat one day that the time is right to start thinking seriously about that wedding, so you go ring shopping, and bingo! You're engaged.

OR...you are genuinely taken by surprise with a formal proposal. Now you may have been half expecting (or hoping for) that proposal at some point, due to the aforementioned general understanding. But it needs to be a surprise for at least one of you, surely? Either planned by your partner, or completely spontaneous. All good.

What is odd though, is to have discussed the fact that you'd like to marry, and then have a pre-arranged time and date to be formally proposed to. By appointment. confused Not spontaneous, and IMHO not romantic, and I personally think it's a little bit cheesy and odd. I make no apologies for that. If you disagree that's fine. But I certainly don't think I should be feeling bad about having offended anyone by finding it cheesy and odd.

FellatioNels0n Thu 21-Feb-13 12:03:24

sorry, that first 'OR' should have been 'and' grin

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 12:04:14

Funnily enough Chesty you have just exactly described mine and DH's situation, did you know smile

We met at 21, lived together for 9 years, split for 3 months, before getting back together and married within a few months.

But, at no point during those 9 years did we ever consider ourselves engaged because a wedding simply wasn't even on the horizon. DH was far too busy building his company, and very much wanted to do things in a certain sequence.

When he did propose, it was all very quick, a Valentine's proposal followed by a June wedding, and DD1 conceived on honeymoon grin

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 12:11:40

Agree with you Fell.

I really don't have a problem with people getting engaged or how they enact the actual proposal. And, then the wedding is planned for the not too distant future.

But, I too find it odd when people plan the actual engagement proposal weeks/months in advanced - are they then somehow tpre-engaged or somefink (is there such a status?), and not properly engaged until the actual planned event hmm

And, then obviously, if after the pre-engaged status, followed by the engaged status, there's no actual wedding anytime even in the distant future...well, I just don't see the point of being in that engaged state.

Essentially, you're just two people, together...and together...and still together...and yep, still together...and the girl is wearing a sparkly ring.

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Feb-13 12:20:41

Me and DH got engaged on a bus on the night bus in Hudderfield 25 years ago with just a leaf as an engagement ring. We didn't get married for 10 years. What do you all think of that then, eh, eh?

And one of DH's 'mates' said to my future MIL 'Don't think of it as losing a son, just gaining a freak' Due to my rather punk like appearance. Twat. He went on to marry his cousin............

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Feb-13 12:21:39

not 'on a bus on the night bus' that would be stupid. Just on the night bus, obv

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Feb-13 12:22:44

oh and we didn't plan our engagement. Twas all very spontanious. If we had planned it I expect we would have chosen Castle Hill or somewhere............

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 12:23:29

I've had a look at that other thread.
I agree things got a bit nasty on here for a few posts and it was totally off to call someone's engagement 'pathetic' but, to be honest, I think that other thread smacks a bit of a child running sobbing to her mum with a skewed and distorted version of some incident that happened in the playground with herself as 100% the victim. I found it a bit hmm

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 12:24:19

Actually Jardin thinking about it...at the end of our first date (which lasted the whole weekend, in the end) DH assured me, quite earnestly, that we would be getting married. I think I threw my head back and laughed, and finished my pint of snake-bite and black grin

A tad presumptuous, perhaps...but, it took him another 10 years to actually buy the ring, and get down on one knee hmm

So, maybe we were engaged all that time...I dunno hmm

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 12:24:53

What other thread hmm

ChestyLeRoux Thu 21-Feb-13 12:29:09

I havent got time for breaking up and getting back together thing. I know a few friends in relationships like it and I think they like the drama of it. Its not something I can see the point of tbh.

TheNebulousBoojum Thu 21-Feb-13 12:30:41

There's a thread in Flouncer's corner linked with this one.
It's just a difference of perspective, this thread shows that there are hundreds of different ways of conducting relationships and what is of incredible significance to one couple barely registers with another. The diversity is the point, otherwise we might just as well be Moonies or clones.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 12:31:15

In Flouncers Corner (which I never knew existed until just now) LaQueen. YouoldSlag is upset (fair enough) but I personally think she's giving a misleading impression of this thread.

Coconutty Thu 21-Feb-13 12:34:38

You can't really complain about getting a verbal spanking if you post on AIBU, and although all the there there it's okay posts are quite sweet they are very one sided based on one person's point of view.

TheNebulousBoojum Thu 21-Feb-13 12:34:49

On a different tangent, I've no idea why people spend a fortune on their wedding day. Or on hen/stag nights. Or getting married in a distant and exotic and expensive location and expecting everyone to schlep out there.
But others do, and it matters to them, in the same way that some like to plan everything, from when to get engaged to when to TTC.

sapphirestar Thu 21-Feb-13 12:41:17

I got engaged having known about it for a few days beforehand. We went out for a meal especially and then went on to the spot where exp wanted to propose. It was lovely and I was very happy with it.
I'm not offended if people think it was a bit odd, or cheesy or just not very romantic. I will be offended if people then proceed to call me 'pathetic' and that special moment 'meaningless', and shall not hesitate to say so.

I don't think it was a case of 'a child sobbing to her mum', she was just upset that people were being unnecessarily mean about a time that she remembers fondly, and wanted a bit of reassurance. People come on MN looking for reassurance all the time, sometimes they get it, sometimes not.

I didn't get the feeling that she was bothered that people disagreed with how she felt, or was telling tales about it.

Lovecat Thu 21-Feb-13 12:46:22

DH and I had a discussion about it where we agreed that if we were still together in 3 years, still felt the same way about each other and had passed our professional qualifications by then (God, the romance of it all!) then we'd get married.

At that point we considered ourselves engaged and told family about it. There were some pointed comments about lack of a ring from certain aged relatives but it was something we wanted to choose for ourselves.

Having chosen the ring in the shop (about 6 months after that conversation), DH told me it needed altering to fit and it would take a week. So I was taken completely by surprise when 3 days later he took me to a nearby lake, went down on one knee and proposed "properly", then took me out to dinner at a restaurant he'd booked in advance. So I had the best of both worlds smile

It was only then we really told people outside the family that we were engaged, but we'd considered ourselves in that state from the moment of our discussion (which took place on the floor of the living room in the shared house we were in, in front of the gas fire because it was the warmest place there!). We got married about 4 years later (pesky exams) and had our 22nd anniversary last year.

I don't particularly understand planning an engagement 'scene' , but if the 2 people involved want to stage it like that (I use the words scene and staged because that's honestly how it appears to me) then that's their business and doesn't necessarily reflect anything about their relationship.

And having read all 11 pages of this thread I fail to see where LaQ has been offensive...

What mrswollowitz said.

How fucking sad that one person is being so mean about someone else's engagement.

As to the OP, I don't give a shiny shite either way, as long as other people aren't offended or hurt (and why on earth would they be?).

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 12:56:58

There's a Flouncer's Corner...like, really confused

If the OP enjoyed her proposal, and it's really special to her...then, why on Earth should other people's opinions make it any less special to her? Or is she really so suggestible and malleable hmm

It's a shame that she feels upset, I guess, but you post in AIBU and you takes your chances [shrugs]

Personally, I have been on threads in AIBU 101 times more vitriolic - this thread was like a walk in the park, on a sunny day, gobbling an ice-cream, compared to many hmm

DoTheStrand Thu 21-Feb-13 13:01:09

I do think people are engaged from the moment they decide to get married. But nothing wrong with marking the occasion later with a semi-formal or formal proposal / party / whatever and it doesn't bother me if people announce they are "getting engaged". I am amazed how many people on here loathe it so much really, have some of you been getting more and more worked up about this over the years and its all coming out on this thread in some sort of cathartic rush? I'm originally from the north east and when I was growing up announcing you were 'getting engaged' at a future date and having a party was very common.

Slightly off topic but I do think the MN obsession with labelling any type of occasion-marking (engagement / wedding / baby) as grabby or entitled or all me me me is a bit sad and miserable. A lot of us actually like hearing about or getting together with friends and celebrating some good news (shocking I know).

DH and I got engaged on our first date with a "shall we get married then?". From that point we were engaged and planning our wedding and we got married 8 months later. But I still liked the idea of a proper proposal - didn't know when or where it would be though. When it happened it was a total surprise - at Marylebone Station and he got down on one knee to do it. He didn't ask my Dad first thank god but he had approached my boss to get me the day off without me knowing. My boss and the HR woman were both incurable romantics and loved the idea. Then he whisked me off (sorry had to include that grin ) for a champagne breakfast at Claridges, then a champagne ride on the Wheel, then a champagne lunch at San Lorenzos. It was fab (I think - can't remember much after the champagne). When we got home he fell asleep with exhaustion while I emailed all my friends with the goss.

it was great. We are divorced now of course have been married 11 years now.

I have of course totally outed myself now. Waves to sister on MN.

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Feb-13 13:10:36

I only found this thread thanks to YOS's flounce. Really nowhere near as bad as I thought twould be.

And aye LaQ that technically counts as an N Gagement so consider yourself engaged over a pint of SB & black <takes me right back that, although I always had cider and black>

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 13:11:07

I am amazed how many people on here loathe it so much really, have some of you been getting more and more worked up about this over the years and its all coming out on this thread in some sort of cathartic rush? QuOTE

Blimey, nothing like being dramatic. Cathartic rush?? confused

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Feb-13 13:11:14

all the fun is to be had at FC. I do love watching a good flounce

DoTheStrand Thu 21-Feb-13 13:14:07

grin atthewelles. Well I have never heard anyone in RL care really.

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:16:18

Funny twas ever my favourite tipple at university. Could down a pint in under 5 seconds [proud]

sapphirestar Thu 21-Feb-13 13:16:23

So because someone posts in AIBU that is an excuse to be absolutely vile to them if you feel like it?
I wouldn't call her 'suggestible and malleable', more human and not made of stone.
If someone attacked something or someone special to you, can you guarantee 100% that you wouldn't be bothered by that?!

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:17:18

Do I honestly can't say I loathe the practice of getting pre-engaged. I think a slightly bemused puzzlement, is a more accurate description?

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 13:17:46

It was curiosity more than anything that prompted my thread DotheStrand. To each their own but I genuinely don't understand it and couldn't imagine being part of a pre agreed proposal scenario that all my friends and family already knew about.

ps my dad politely told my grandad that he was thinking of asking his daughter to marry him and my grandad replied 'well, what do you want me to do about it?' grin

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:18:37

How can I be a MN veteran, and not know there's a Flouncer's Corner FFS???

All the years and years of fun and hi-jinks, missed...

I hold you personally responsible Jardin for not filling me in [glares]

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:20:12

Sapph I really don't think that anyone on this thread as been 'absolutely vile' have they? Lordy...there's zillions of threads far worse on AIBU - tis the Nature of the Beast, I'm afraid.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 13:20:29

I think it was the way she kind of marched into the thread swearing at everyone and telling them they were miserable and mean minded that set the scene sapphire and the thread started to go downwards after that.
Not saying that some of the comments made towards her were excusable, but she also played her part in fairness.

DoTheStrand Thu 21-Feb-13 13:24:53

Sorry I didn't see your OP as a cathartic rush atthewelles, just some of the later posters... and yes I do like a bit of drama that's why I come on MN smile Your grandad sounds great. I think if DH had asked my dad his reply would have been along the lines of 'at last! can I pay for the reception to speed things along please'. (I was 30 by then. 30!! on the shelf obv).

LaQueen I misread your post as re-engaged not pre-engaged and I did boggle slightly. I think even I, with my love of parties and happy news, would draw the line at getting excited at a re-engagement.

Yanbu

My cousin did this recently I said "I'm pregnant" she said "well I'm getting engaged this year sometime"

wtf?? when did this become the norm, I thought you were proposed to and you were then able to tell everyone your engaged

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:29:16

I've just read the t'other thread...how very, very odd?

Maybe I have just become totally hardened from years of perching on AIBU?

This thread was nothing ...no one has been called a cunt yet, no one has been compared to Hitler, there's been nary a 'fuck off to Fucksville, and when you get there, take a left and fuck on forward to Fucksbridge', and there's as yet no sign of rabid C&P from sources on the t'Internet proving that someone is right.

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:31:40

Do Oh, nooooooo...you do realise you have created yet another official status of Re-Engaged don't you?

Presumably, getting Re-Engaged occurs after the endless 5 year engagement, when a wedding date is finally agreed upon, and the couple can then tell everyone they're now engaged to be actually married?

DoTheStrand Thu 21-Feb-13 13:35:17

Oops. Oh dear I am so sorry. I haven't really helped this thread have I, merely muddied the waters grin

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:36:41

I'm prepared to overlook it this time Do but don't let it happen again, alright hmm

sapphirestar Thu 21-Feb-13 13:39:38

I would class calling someone pathetic and meaningless vile, yes.
Just because it's AIBU i don't think makes it acceptable.
FWIW Yanbu to the original thread title, but some of the rest of it is totally U.

sapphirestar Thu 21-Feb-13 13:43:12

Oh and how exactly does one 'march onto a thread'?
Have I marched onto this one by expressing my opinion and sticking up for someone who I felt was treated unfairly, or have I simply posted?
I've clearly not been around long enough to understand the difference.

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Feb-13 13:43:49

sorry LaQ I just assumed everyone knew about FC.

And kudos ref the downing in 5 seconds. I once threw up like a demon after drinking 5 bottles of Strongbow 1080 on an empty stomach <proud>. DH had a similar experience with Merrydown

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 13:44:41

I suppose in the same way that someone 'flounces' off to Flouncers Corner. Its all in the tone and content of the post.

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:47:47

Sapp to be honest I would say calling someone meaningless and pathetic, only really qualifies as AIBU-Lite banter, really.

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 13:49:24

Jardin I could do a yard of ale in an impressive time, too (and hold it down long enough to walk sedately to the loos, before hurling it all back).

Merrydown was hardcore though. Ick.

Ignoring a lot of the stuff upthread, I also can't understand the thoroughly planned out engagements - but that's because it's not who I am. We got engaged on our own, in a park, very spur of the moment - and the ring he used was one that he had worn for 10 years previously. Amazing. Perfect. We'd talked about the relationship enough to know that we were both thinking the same things about our future, and that we both wanted to do so.

Same with the wedding - as cheap as possible, only a handful of the closest people. We spent the most money on the rings, as they were the thing with the most importance for us - something tangible that would last for the remainder of the marriage (well, hopefully!)

I also know someone who - in all seriousness - described her relationship as "we're engaged to become engaged!" hmm

sapphirestar Thu 21-Feb-13 14:21:57

LaQueen then we will have to agree to disagree, I just don't think it's very nice

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 14:22:16

There's an expression in Ireland (probably in the UK too) 'engaged to wait' which is often used to describe engagements that seem to be going on forever with no wedding in sight.

Just giggling at the irony of the flouncers corner - members annoucing they're going to flounce smile

Ellie you're pretty vile tbh, calling someone's engagement pathetic and meaningless. Quite a harsh personal attack there.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 15:17:42

What made me laugh was the number of posters saying "I haven't read that other thread but they are all awful and jealous and vile people who are being really mean to you".

FakePlasticLobsters Thu 21-Feb-13 15:48:06

I'm a little surprised by Flouncer's Corner, as it seems to be the one place on MN where it is okay to start a thread about a thread.

And it's unfortunate that so many people who hadn't read this thread were critical of everyone on it, because for the most part it really hasn't been an attack on anyone else.

I'm actually very sorry that someone has been upset enough to post about it elsewhere and consider leaving MN, because I really don't believe that was the intention of the thread.

And in fact her own circumstances were not exactly the ones being described at the beginning of this thread. Her engagement seems to have been a quiet but open secret they decided to celebrate and formalise abroad, which is vastly different to the original discussion about the point when a couple who agree to marry become engaged/people who spend six months telling everyone from the milkman to his dog that they are 'getting engaged' on X date.

Having read back, I think Ellie has had a bit of a rough deal herself here. She didn't actually say that the other posters engagement was meaningless because they went to Paris to swap the ring, she said the statement "we are going to Paris to get engaged" was meaningless to her because she would consider the couple already engaged by that point. I realise I've paraphrased slightly, but on reading back I really don't think she was calling an actual engagement meaningless.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 16:00:31

I've just read back over Ellie's posts Fake and you're absolutely right. She did use the word 'meaningless' in the way you described and not in the insulting way that has been implied.
Her use of the word 'pathetic' was not fair but she used it in the heat of the moment and came back and said that she should not have used it.

I really do think that a totally distorted impression of this thread has been presented over on flouncy bouncy corner and if you look back at some of YOS's posts (or indeed some of the posts on 'the other thread') they are just as unpleasant as the ones YOS is complaining about.

Seriously, if you dish it out you have to be prepared to take it as well.

Catchingmockingbirds Thu 21-Feb-13 16:01:39

I wonder how many posters that start threads in flouncers corner actually leave mn for good.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 16:04:46

Imagine if you started a thread over there and no one came back and said 'aaaw. Don't go.' And there you were, all ready to flounce.

Coconutty Thu 21-Feb-13 16:07:13

None of them catching just a bit of a there, there place I think. As in, I'm going, I really am, honestly, no, don't try and stop me. Oh okay I'll stay then.

Quite good if someone really has got things out if perspective, should be called Knicker Untwister Corner.

Coconutty Thu 21-Feb-13 16:08:01

at that would be very funny.

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 16:31:44

"She didn't actually say that the other posters engagement was meaningless because they went to Paris to swap the ring, she said the statement "we are going to Paris to get engaged" was meaningless to her because she would consider the couple already engaged by that point"

I agree Fake - I think most posters on here were just stating that they simply don't recognise/understand that pre-engaged state...where couples agree to get engaged, but then wait weeks/months whilst planning a formal engagement ceremony/stage setting?

I don't think anyone said they thought the actual engagement ceremony/stage setting was meaningless or pointless.

I think the OP was overly sensitive, to be honest...but her reaction didn't surprise me. I think her reaction to this thread, and her subsequent reaction on Flouncer's Corner is all a bit dramatic, and slightly...I dunno...silly?

Just the sort of reaction you'd get from someone who would get all excited over planning a pre-engaged plan to get engaged type plan thingy.

sooperdooper Thu 21-Feb-13 16:50:54

If by the 'engagement ceremony/stage setting' you mean a situation which has been engineered and arranged by both people in order to say ' we got engaged on the stroke of midnight at the top of Mount Everest aren't we romantic' or whatever then yes, I'd say that was pretty meaningless & pointless, because in order for both people to be aware those plans are happening means you're already engaged wink

I said it before, but you could just say, we're engaged, and we're off on holiday/for a lovely day trip etc to celebrate, and still have that nice experience, but it'd be a bit more real, as a celebration, rather than pretending smile

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 16:57:19

"If by the 'engagement ceremony/stage setting' you mean a situation which has been engineered and arranged by both people in order to say ' we got engaged on the stroke of midnight at the top of Mount Everest aren't we romantic' or whatever then yes, I'd say that was pretty meaningless & pointless, because in order for both people to be aware those plans are happening means you're already engaged"

Yes, I think that's what I mean sooper ...although, to be honest it's all starting to blur now...

But, personally (and it's just my opinion, and doesn't mean I am empirically right, or anything) I think engineering the romance makes it seem a bit artificial, and contrived.

But, I fully appreciate that someone people invest a lot of emotion and value in that sort of shit stuff.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 16:59:53

I agree LaQueen, I hate it when people goad other people into a response and then take umbrage when that response comes.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 17:00:35

Sorry, x posted. Agreeing with your second last post.

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 17:04:07

I just think that people need to be very wary of posting on AIBU - and it's a bit disingenuous to post, and then run away going 'Waaaaaaah, they've been, like, really nasty to me'

Especially, when no one has actually been really nasty, just very direct with their opinions.

usualsuspect Thu 21-Feb-13 17:06:39

There's a fine line between direct and being nasty for the sake of it.

usualsuspect Thu 21-Feb-13 17:09:30

And all the this is AIBU what do you expect, doesn't do a lot for the site IMO.

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 17:11:33

But we're talking about this particular incident usual where some of us think a minor incident has been blown up out of all proportion and where a poster who was quite happy to come into the thread all guns blaring then took umbrage and started another thread in Flouncers Corner talking about how horrible everyone on this thread was. A bit unfair, don't you think?

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 17:14:47

Mind you, its been great publicity for Flouncers Corner which most people didn't seem to know existed. We'll all be over there now flouncing around and drying each others tears. smile

usualsuspect Thu 21-Feb-13 17:20:35

I think most people know FC exists except for the ones that never leave AIBU

atthewelles Thu 21-Feb-13 17:22:25

Well, I didn't and I also post on the food threads, the book threads and baby names.
The traffic there seems to be quite light but that might change now. smile

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 17:25:27

usual I genuinely don't think people were being nasty for the sake of it, or even nasty per se.

People were just stating their direct opinions (with no nastiness that I could see) ...the OP misinterpreted someone's post (Ellie definitely didn't say the OP's actual engagement scenario was pointless and meaningless - she actually said she considered the status between agreeing to get engaged and the actual event as a pointless status ) but the OP took it personally...got all huffy...was pretty damned caustic in her own responses...and that made everyone else go hmm and were caustic back.

LaQueen Thu 21-Feb-13 17:26:28

usual well I regularly trot between AIBU, Chat, Adult Fiction and Style & Beauty...and have never noticed it, yet hmm

I suppose it depends what pops up in Active Convos (or Last 15 Minutes) and how to a certain extent how solipsistic one is.

how much, rather

prettybird Thu 21-Feb-13 17:34:14

I agree with you OP - I've never understood it either. Once you've decided you are getting married, you are engaged - ring or not. confused

Pandemoniaa Thu 21-Feb-13 17:36:59

Well I didn't know there was a Flouncer's Corner either. But then I don't do flouncing. If push came to shove I'd just fuck off quietly and sit at home muttering about nests of vipers.

Slippersox Thu 21-Feb-13 19:33:55

YANBU and I feel exactly the same and always have.The minute you decide to get engaged you ARE engaged !Also don't get going to a family wedding recently,all quite last minute and registry office and meal afterwards.Perfectly lovely and nice and couple very loved up to be told our presence is required abroad next year for the ' proper' wedding ie. big bling do with a cast of many when they can afford and work permits it.Well we can't afford to go,and our work won't permit it but it's their attitude that really gets me.The 'oh this isn't our real wedding' WTF yes it is.It's the day you got married.Or I'm I just missing something?

I find it confusing because surely if you've both agreed you are getting married in the future you are engaged?

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