To ban my daughter from seeing 2,of her friends

(63 Posts)

My 12 year old daughter has two friends. I'll call them Molly and Jane. I don't like Molly anyway and never have. I think she's rude and seems to run wild as her parents don't seem to know or care where she is. She has made my daughter cry on numerous occasions as she seems quite spiteful.

On Friday all three girls were involved in an incident that I found completely unacceptable. They trespassed on a neighbours driveway and were hanging around in their garden along with approximately 12 other children ranging in age from 12 up to 15. This was just after school on their way home. The neighbour came out and told them all to leave her garden as they were trespassing. The children then starting hurling abuse at the poor women, calling her names such as "fat bitch" and "racist" (not sure where that one came from).

I left work as soon as I could and took my daughter round to apologise for her part in all this. My own daughter was one of the quieter ones but she was rude to this lady. The lady was clearly still upset by this and said she would be reporting to school. She appreciated my daughters apology and I assured her my daughter would be punished at home and I would support the school if they also issued a punishment.

I am best friends with janes mum so I told her what had happened. For reasons I absolutely do not understand janes mum is angry at the neighbour fir being rude to her daughter and doesn't have a problem at all with her being rude to an adult and shouting and screaming on the street.

This is the 3rd time Molly has been cheeky to a neighbour. On one occasion she was trespassing and the second occasion she was bullying a much younger child. Each time when "told off" by the adult Molly has shouted abuse back at the adult.

I am disgusted that my own daughter seems to be heading down the same path as these other girls and have told her she is not allowed any contact with these other girls until they apologise to the neighbour. I am worried about my daughters attitude and the fact she got involved in a situation that she should have known was totally out of order.

My friend now seems to have fallen out with me as I've banned my daughter from associating with hers. What else can I do though? I don't want my daughter being known as "one of the 3 asbo girls". I cannot trust my daughter to make the correct decision when these other girls behave badly. My daughter does have other friends who behave well and I don't want her jeopardising these friendships by associating with "wrong UBS"

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Feb-13 12:01:15

Regardless of the norm of letting the DC work things out with their friends for themselves and not getting involved, I would be thinking along the same lines as you if my 12 YO DD was getting up to similar stuff.

What you've described is the stuff of nightmare neighbours TV programs, making people scared to go out their own door and dread having to walk past groups of youngsters.

You give a shit about your DD, why wouldn't you try to steer her away from behaving like a lout.

I'm not sure how you'd go about enforcing her not seeing them though, if you keep her in, how long do you do that for? Won't she just meet up with them at school etc?

IloveJudgeJudy Sun 17-Feb-13 12:07:36

I can see what you mean, but don't really see how you can enforce this.

What I would do is talk, talk, talk to your DD. I don't mean just about this incident, but in a few days (it's half-term here, so a good start to non-association!) talk to her about the incident and what the repercussions might be. Try not to be aggressive.

Also, maybe instead of her not associating with those friends, try to help her to make the right choices when the friends start doing the wrong thing. She could have walked away from the above incident (may have been difficult, but she could have). Talk through possible scenarios and give her the tools to do the right thing.

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 12:11:24

To be honest - I would even go as far as think of switching schools... if this is the normal behaviour at her current school!

But if that isn't an option, banning her from being friends with those two girls is the least you can do. You can "punish" her more by giving her some sort of "community sentence". Take her somewhere where she can see where such asbo girls finally end up. What does she want to do later in life? Does she want to go to uni? Take her to Oxbridge for a mother/daughter daytrip, and show her what it takes to get there. Push her aspiration levels right to the top.

Basically, what I am saying is - you have to appeal to the selfish nature of humans. Most people who "do well" despite the environment they were brought up in do so because they were pretty determined to get to where they wanted to be. Of course, if you don't know where you want to be in xx years time, that will become more difficult, and hence, you want to show her all the "good" possibilities versus the "bad". You can end up living this life or that one. Your choice, child.

YANBU. YANBU.

I applaud you for what you did.

I know - the neighbour was scared. She was visibly upset when I went round which was 2 hours later. I would have called the police if I'd been her - I think they've all got off very lightly.

I suppose I can't really police it once she's a school but I can stop her walking to and from school with them. I've threatened to collect her frm the school office if I can't trust her not to walk home with them. That went down well. It's half term here at the moment and she's grounded now.

fluckered Sun 17-Feb-13 12:14:42

is this the first time it has happened with your dd involved? i would be on your side and would want to stop her associating with them. however you can't police that. school, texts they are still going to be in touch. talk talk and talk some more to her. tell her how you feel ask her her side of things what she was thinking, did she actually want to go and not be involved. encourage her to think for herself and not be a follower and perhaps give her ONE more chance to prove herself. if she fails she then has no contact. thats it. but she is at an age where it could go either way. talk to her like an adult (even though she isnt) and have a TWO way conversation about it. good luck.

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 12:14:46

keep her away from them out of school IMO you cant really enforce it when she is at school they are her friends they all sound rude and louty I do think your dd got involved with it the same as the others I really dont think she was being led ( i might be wrong), I agree with the above post about getting her to make choices about her behaviour she can walk away she doesn't need to shout abuse at people when THEY were in her garden etc,

IDontDoIroning Sun 17-Feb-13 12:15:06

Your best friend didn't think there was anything wrong with her dd entering another persons property and being rude and abusive when asked to leave shock
You did the right thing she didn't

Tasmania Sun 17-Feb-13 12:15:06

Northcountygirl Since it's half-term now - there's a lot of time for you to do all the "activities" I mention above. Do them now, before school starts. Best time to turn your DD around, I think.

fluckered Sun 17-Feb-13 12:16:05

oh and you did right marching her over there for an apology.

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 12:17:23

oh and janes mum sounds one of those my child is so precious and perfect and how dare adults tell her off,

Yes I've already said that what she did was a crime and that she's lucky she doesn't have a criminal record. She wants to be a nurse when she's older and I told her she wouldn't be able to do this with a criminal record. I threatened her with calling in at the police station so they could explain t her just how serious this is. Maybe I should still take. She does seem ashamed though and guilty. The fact that the lady was so nice about it made her feel worse which is good.

My daughter is generally a good girl but she's a bloody sheep. She clearly doesn't have the strength of character to stand up for what's right which is a huge disappointment.

The school is actually a really good school. I think they'll come down pretty hard on them over this. I don't know all the children involved but I do know 2 of the boys and I'm pretty sure that their parents will feel the same as I do. Although I thought that of my friend too...

ajandjjmum Sun 17-Feb-13 12:23:32

To be honest OP, you perhaps need to re-evaluate your own friendship in view of that response.

Hope you gets lots of time to talk to your DD, and that she spends some time with other friends over half term.

smile

ajandjjmum Sun 17-Feb-13 12:25:07

Another thought - do you think you should approach the school and tell them what happened and the action you have taken, so that they will work with you if possible?

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 12:25:49

its the respect thing id be worried about the police wouldnt arrest a bunch of kids for walking in somebodies garden the threw abuse at the woman I would be livid at the cheek of them, you did the right thing

Astelia Sun 17-Feb-13 12:26:10

YANBU as the girls sound vile. I am horrified at the behaviour, speech and attitude of the girls. It is the sort of thing you read about in the newspaper.

If you talk to school and ask for DD not to sit near either of these girls in lessons they should be able to do this, which would be one small step.

If DD won't leave this friendship group I would be trying to change schools ASAP.

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 12:26:27

and fwiw kids do go through a bit of a gobby stage your dd isn't unusual

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 12:27:51

I think asking the school to keep them apart in school is a terrible idea they could all turn on her,

Flickered no this isn't the first time my daughter has been involved. It's the first time she's joined in though. The other occasions my daughter tried to pull Molly away.

I'm not sure about her spending time with other friends this half term as she is supposed to be grounded. I'm still very angry with her so maybe when I've calmed down and if she's contrite enough I may change my mind. Going forward though I'll certainly do that. I know all her friends parents so I can arrange sleepovers etc with the friends I do approve of.

I should have added I have already emailed the school. I know the neighbour isn't reporting my daughter as she apologised so I've reported her instead.

The other girls aren't in any classes with my daughter so that's good.

Jane's mum sounds an arsehole! What posssible excuse can she have for them hanging around this woman's garden? Has you daughter explained further why they were there?

You are definitely doing the right thing. You may be able to resolve this with your friend in the future if you can make her see she is being unreasonable. How would she feel if 15 kids turned up in her garden and told her to fuck off? The other kid sounds thoroughly nasty and i wouldn't want my child hanging round with her at all.

fluckered Sun 17-Feb-13 12:34:15

oh well then would follow through with all your threats and grounding and yes i would march her down to polica station and perhaps someone there might explain things more and scare her a little. i would frop a friend like a hot potato if my child's well being was compromised. you are nbu in this regard and wouls seriously re-evaluate that friendship. perhaps your dd can see this then and see you dont surround yourself with people like this.

fluckered Sun 17-Feb-13 12:35:17

please excuse typos ds bugging the crap outa me putting a feckin ben 10 alien back together.

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 12:38:59

The other girls aren't in any classes with my daughter so that's good.

that is a positive if they are not in her classes keep her grounded this week well until you cant stand it any longer do something with her and dont allow these friends round,

mummymeister Sun 17-Feb-13 12:39:01

Best way to wean her away from the other 2 girls is to start encouraging her to have other girls over to visit over half term. similar situation when DD2 was 8 - could see the way her best friend was going and gradually moved her out of the picture by asking 2 other girls regularly for tea, games etc and not asbogirl. ask DD now 12 and she says how pleased she was that i did it. 12 is a pants age for girls year 8 is when they are the most difficult so try and ride through it with her. you are being the good responsible mum.

spanky2 Sun 17-Feb-13 12:46:36

I used to like hanging around with the bad girls at school . I grew out of it and became a 'responsible member of society ' Just trying to reassure you. I think you need to point out to her how would she feel if she was that poor woman . Possibly warn her you will pick her up from school and walk her home if you can'ttrust her to behave responsibly.

BackforGood Sun 17-Feb-13 12:47:04

I totally agree with what ILove JJ said.
You can't really dictate who your child hangs around with at school, but you can hopefully help her to think for herself and think about what options she has.

The justification janes mum has given is that she thinks the neighbours drive is a public footpath. It isn't its private property but just doesn't have a fence round it. That's secondary really though - main issue for me is that they were threatening when asked to move.

xxDebstarxx Sun 17-Feb-13 12:51:14

Usually I would say don't get involved in your children's friendships but this situation is different. I wouldn't want my children being friends with other children who act this way and see nothing wrong in it. Or who have parents who see nothing wrong in such vile behaviour.

Your poor neighbour. Maybe ask her if there are any jobs she needs doing that your daughter can do for her. Kind of a community service for her bad behaviour. It is good that you are showing your daughter that there are consequences to her actions, this is the only way she will learn.

Lafaminute Sun 17-Feb-13 12:52:00

I think that this is the junction where they either continue with this sort of totally unacceptable behaviour or they discover the severe consequences of anti-social behaviour and learn to act as a positive part of a society. The other girls parents are not willing to put in the effort to correct their childrens behaviour so I would definitely say you are NBU by banning her from seeing these girls - encourage good friendships and discourage bad - your daughter will appreciate it someday. It must be so upsetting that your best friend reacted so badly about Janes bad behaviour.

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 12:52:36

Do you think you being friends with the parents is keeping the friendship going IYSWIM friendship groups shift and change all the time with girls and perhaps because you are friends witht he mums it is keeping them all together I am not saying stop being friends with these women not sure what im saying really but I do think your dd has outgrown these girls she needs help to move on from them,

noddyholder Sun 17-Feb-13 12:53:10

I found the less things I over reacted to between 12 and 16 the better They do eventually work out who is and isn't a good friend and if you try and ban them they become very attractive and a bit risque. I had a problem with one of ds mates but he came and went in a few months as ds did work it out!

Branleuse Sun 17-Feb-13 13:02:19

yanbu I would definitely ban her, and ask the school to seperate them at school.

possibly even consider moving schools if it carries on

racingheart Sun 17-Feb-13 13:04:26

You've done exactly the right thing. If you've fallen out with a friend over this, then count yourself lucky, as she isn't a mum who will help your daughter stay on the right path as she hits adolescence. Really I think being as strict and shocked as you can as early as you can over this sort of behaviour helps knock it on the head.

Any child whose parents send them the message that it's OK to trespass, be aggressive and rude and hang round in groups intimidating others, is going to get further into trouble as they grow older.

Your DD may as well learn now, the easy way, rather than later, the hard way, that she's better off with a few, really trustworthy friends than a gang of dodgy ones.

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Feb-13 13:13:45

I don't think you should worry too much about your DD carrying on like this indefinitely going on what you've said OP, you're taking it seriously and doing things to change the way she thinks about it.

It's 'normal' ish behaviour from groups of children, but the crunch time is when the parents find out what they've been up to, same as when toddlers hit/kick etc.

Could you go down the route of giving some examples of how groups of young people can affect people living in the area? It might be OTT I'm not sure, but the story of Fiona and Francecca Pilkington is pretty hard hitting as to how strongly it can make someone feel (even though the police let them down too).

It's only going to get worse as they get older though isn't it? How can you stop your 14/15 YO from going out, unless you start to get physical? Stop their money and you'd worry they'll find somewhere less acceptable to get it from, taking away their stuff would just make them go out even more, and I can't imagine trying to reason with them would go down that well.

I'm dreading it (even though DD isn't too bad ATM).

MissMogwi Sun 17-Feb-13 13:14:37

YANBU. I'd do the same in your position.

Yes that's what I think racing heart. I've said to my daughter that the road they all seem to be going down is the road to a criminal record, drinking cider in the park and long term unemployment.

My friend is a nice person she's just unbelievably protective over her children to the point they can do no wrong. I know we all feel a natural defensiveness over our children but sometimes they really shouldn't be protected.

My daughter has totally changed from the girl she was last year. She seemed to change instantly the day she started at high school. It's not just this latest incident to be honest. She's also had detentions at school over late homework and I got a letter from school on Friday saying she was wasting time in pe and not taking in the correct kit. She needs to buckle down and work much harder. She has dyslexia and dyspraxia so finds school work harder. She is the last person who can afford to slack off and she really needs to understand this. She has a twin brother who is totally different - he's had 6 postcards from school complimenting him on his effort in different subjects. My daughters not had one....

SparklyAntlersInMyDecorating Sun 17-Feb-13 13:24:27

Why should a school deal with this? I am not being confrontational, just curious. It didn't happen in school, or on school property?

That's a good idea agent zigzag. Actually some of her friends are involved with a church youth group that get involved with community projects. They meet up a couple of times a week and mainly just hang out and play games but they do things in the community too a few times a year so that may be good for her.

I'll look around locally I think and see what I can get her involved with. Maybe a bit of volunteering if they'll take someone of her age. I think she would be up for that actually.

Sparkly the school would get involved as they were all in school uniform at the time so were representative of the school. There was another boy who was caught shoplifting whilst wearing uniform. It was after school so in his own time but the school got involved and punished him quite severely.

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Feb-13 13:29:34

Mine's the same and has just shot up physically and mentally over the past few months, she's also had two detentions since being there for late homework/not having right PE kit as well hmm

I'm sure you don't do it out loud, but try not to compare her to her brother, it might make her wonder why she should bother even trying when she knows she can't come close to how he behaves.

Could your friend have had words with her DD in private? Just giving you a knee jerk reaction and mouthing off?

It's early days yet in showing what they'll turn out like eventually, they can still be having trouble into their 20s and still get it together in the end smile

I don't really compare her with her brother as academically he achieves much much higher than her and to be fair up until last year she did actually work harder and put more effort in than him. I have asked where her postcards are though as these are given out for effort rather than achievement.

It is disappointing though as obviously being twins they've been brought up the same. All my sons friends are lovely, well behaved, polite and law abiding. My daughter seems to prefer the thrill seeking "wild child" type girls though...

In fairness I was the same. I remember my parents banning me from seeing certain people and I ignored them too. I turned out ok eventually but not sure i would have if my parents hadn't been as hands on as they were.

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 13:50:46

Why should a school deal with this? I am not being confrontational, just curious. It didn't happen in school, or on school property?

because when they are going to and from school they are wearing their uniform and representing their school, you wouldn't report a group of kids to the school on a weekend for doing the same thing iyswim.

No but they wouldn't be wearing he uniform at he weekend. To be honest I know it's not the schools responsibility really but I am glad they involve themselves the way they do.

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 13:54:00

thats what I meant because it is a week school days and then the school can get involved, I am in agreement that the school should know and be involved,

ajandjjmum Sun 17-Feb-13 14:30:29

I thought the schools involvement would come from the fact that the neighbour said she would report the behaviour to the school - and as they were coming back from school, quite fairly imho.

Narked Sun 17-Feb-13 14:38:06

shock

I don't know what to suggest. I just feel so sorry for that poor woman. As you've said your daughter has been on the sidelines of things before, though not involved until now, I might try telling her that this is her last chance - one more incident and you'll change schools.

McNewPants2013 Sun 17-Feb-13 14:44:13

Well done to your neighbour, it must have taken gut to approach a group of teenager who was in her garden.

You sound like a good mother and banning this frienship seems the right thing to do.

I would very very angry if any my DC did this

socareless Sun 17-Feb-13 14:57:25

Well done OP for taking this seriously. Please ignore the 'it is normal behaviour for children her age' - it is not!!

Be very firm. Racingheart makes a very good point about showing her how shocked you are. This will help in getting her to see how unacceptable that sort of behaviour is. Do not worry about not being able to control who she interacts with at school. Right now the priority should be to get her to understand how bad what she has done is.

Hopefully if she does see that such behaviour is unattractive she can then manage how she interacts with those girls.

As a child/teenager I did know girls who were up to no good, and I found them fascinating but I never joined in because I knew what would be waiting for me at home and I also had a clear understanding of right and wrong.

Good luck.

Narked Sun 17-Feb-13 15:03:31

Is she getting enough support for her dyslexia? Senior school can come as a big shock in terms of workload for DC generally and maybe more so in her case.

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Feb-13 16:02:35

I said it can be 'normal' ish behaviour for groups of children when they get together socareless, so not including all children in every situation, but I'm surprised you think pre-teens/teens don't get a bit rowdy and mouthy when they get together with all their friends out in public.

What do older DC do around your area when they meet up with their mates? Is it always inside? Do they always have somewhere to go? What about walking home together from school?

Peggotty Sun 17-Feb-13 16:13:01

I'm sorry if you won't want to hear this but I think you sound a little 'down' on your dd. She's a 'bloody sheep' that you're 'so disappointed' in and she doesn't measure up to your academic ds? I understand that you're angry and upset at the incident that's happened, but I would be looking for the deeper cause of WHY she is 'a sheep' i.e easily led and influenced. Is she lacking in confidence and therefore hanging around with stronger characters? Her dyslexia and dyspraxia must be difficult for her to cope with. I think you're doing the right thing in teaching her what the consequences of her actions may be but she sounds a little vulnerable to me.

CheerfulYank Sun 17-Feb-13 16:34:16

I'd be furious. YANBU.

My brother and some neighborhood friends of ours harassed an elderly neighbor once, I'm ashamed to say. (Nothing like calling her those kinds of names, but still bad.) My mother marched us round immediately to apologize profusely and promise to do her yard work forever. Literally. (My brother did end up mowing her lawn for a few years.)

I had a "bad friend" when I was younger and my parents let me hang out with her but talked, talked, talked to me all the time about choices, etc. Finally they only let me see her at our house. At that age I was so jealous because she got to do whatever she wanted, but my parents were always telling me it'd come back to bite her in the end.

They were right...she's got two kids by fuckwit fathers now who live with her mother as she is only allowed supervised contact, numerous jail and rehab stints, her brother's entire college fund used up to pay for her court fees...

You are doing the right thing OP. Your poor neighbor!

mrsjay Sun 17-Feb-13 16:44:21

I said it can be 'normal' ish behaviour for groups of children when they get together socareless, so not including all children in every situation, but I'm surprised you think pre-teens/teens don't get a bit rowdy and mouthy when they get together with all their friends out in public.

^ ^ that even the best behaved children can be a bit gobby and even cheeky when they are with their friends especially at around this age no child is perfect and most will try and show off,

mrsbunnylove Sun 17-Feb-13 16:56:19

ban contact, move away, save your daughter's future.

AgentZigzag Sun 17-Feb-13 17:05:19

No guarantees there won't be a similar group of children where the OP moves to though mrsb.

Thank you for your comments on my thread. I really appreciate your honesty.

I did actually read your comment on Sunday and have been mulling it over since then. I think in a lot of ways you're very right and now that I've calmed down I'm not as against my daughter as I was in my original post. But having said that you are right and my daughter has had a very fragile self esteem in the past, a point I'd completely forgotten about.

As a direct result of your post I put my annoyance aside with my daughter and we spent a girly evening together where I dyed her hair (against my better judgement cos my daughter has the most beautiful copper colour hair) and then we watched our all time favourite films of mamma mia and of course matilda.

So thank you (very genuinely) x

I will of course update my thread because unfortunately as I'm sure you can imagine it doesn't have a happy ending all round!

That's supposed to be a pm. Obviously not got the hang of that!

I thought I would update this thread as a lot has happened in the space of a week.

The school has been absolutely fantastic. They came down really hard on all involved and asked them to write a letter of apology. They called the children into an office and four of the senior teachers gave them a big telling off and have told them they are still considering their punishment but are thinking about police involvement/banning from residential trip/banning from end of year trip/isolation unit. So the kids are all waiting for he axe to fall! The teachers went round to see my neighbour at school home time and told off any children thy saw trying to use the garden as a cut through and also spoke to my neighbour.

My daughter is still not friends with "Jane" and "Molly" and seems to have found a much nicer group of girls to hang round with. Both me and her father have seen a massive improvement in her behaviour and attitude and so far there have been no negative comments in her school planner. No positive comments either but we live in hope...

So that's all good. BUT Jane's mum has de friended and blocked me on Facebook and also posted comments about me. Jane has not written her letter of apology as Jane's mum has told her not to. I think both myself and my daughter have actually had quite a lucky escape in truth, as I think it's probably best not to be associated with people who behave that way. Oh, and also I didn't mention in my previous posts but Jane lives next door so summer should be "interesting".

mrsjay Sat 02-Mar-13 14:09:37

My daughter is still not friends with "Jane" and "Molly" and seems to have found a much nicer group of girls to hang round with. Both me and her father have seen a massive improvement in her behaviour and attitude and so far there have been no negative comments in her school planner. No positive comments either but we live in hope...

^ ^ this is what is important in all this that your DD is happy with her new group of friends children go through peaks and troughs with friendships so just stick with it smile

I think the school dealing with it was great glad it has worked out high school Children are a erm challenge eh wink

mrsjay Sat 02-Mar-13 14:10:29

and Janes mum well I think you are well away from her and Jane she sounds hard work

They sure are challenging! I don't think I'll ever stop worrying about them. My mum says she still worries about me and I'm 40!

I've never worked in a school so don't have any experience but I would imagine the mum would crop up in staff room conversation. I've never heard of anyone ever not supporting a school punishment.

mrsjay Sat 02-Mar-13 17:49:31

oh a few at DDs school dont support school intervention at all some of dd1s classmates parents were very precious of their Dds , but at least you are supporting it, and she has moved on to new friends. I have a nearly 20 yr old who works away sometimes I worry myself sick about her,

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