To think this teacher is fucking loopy?

(272 Posts)
OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 18:12:50

DS2 (just 5) apparently broke a branch off one of the trees in the school playground. He was swinging on it (normal boy behaviour?).

Teacher, who is Head of KS1 then paraded him around all the KS1 classes with the offending branch lecturing the other DC on how naughty my DC was and what a terrible thing he did.

She also phoned me (I did not know she had taken him round the classes) to inform me of my DS's 'crime'. I said I would talk to him. She also took the 'dead' branch into the afterschool club and showed all the DC there and so the staff could show me the offending article when I picked him up.

DS has said that he did not mean for the branch to come off.

I am actually quite furious that she has demonised my DS to the other DCs. DS has found it very hard to settle into school and I actually had a meeting with this woman before he started at school as I was concerned about how he would settle (undiagnosed SN is my mother's gut instinct) and she has totally ignored every thing I said.

AIBU to loudly voice my displeasure on Monday?

MrsRajeshKoothrappali Sat 16-Feb-13 18:15:05

I think I'd give her a slap.

What an utter bitch.

Who the hell does she think she is??

shock

Euphemia Sat 16-Feb-13 18:16:52

Her reaction was completely disproportionate to the harm done.

No it's not "normal boy behaviour" - it's completely unacceptable.

What are your mother's qualifications?

You would be unreasonable to loudly voice anything, but I think you should certainly talk to the teacher.

TheLibrarianOok Sat 16-Feb-13 18:16:57

Sadly more of this kind of crap still goes on in our primary schools than most of us would be comfortable with. sad
YANBU

LilQueenie Sat 16-Feb-13 18:17:09

name and shame her locally. If it works for her.....

zwischenzug Sat 16-Feb-13 18:17:18

No, you are right she is a nut on a power trip. Put her in her place.

ratbagcatbag Sat 16-Feb-13 18:17:26

Wow, nasty cow, I'd go mad for that. sad

Madmum24 Sat 16-Feb-13 18:18:04

This is hilarious..........what is the world coming to?

Go and see her (YANBU) and bring the offending branch with you and apologize to it on your ds's behalf.

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Feb-13 18:18:31

Blimey.

Well, if you are going to have branches in reach, expect them to climbed and dangled upon, this is what children do.

However that is a massive over reaction on her part.

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Feb-13 18:19:16

Liking madmums style!

thebody Sat 16-Feb-13 18:19:25

Well she does sound a bit ott but maybe she saw it as a safety issue, he could have fallen out of the tree or the branch landed on him or another child.

School playground rules etc, had she told him not to do it before it happened?

If I were you I would go in and hear her side first before an all fund blazing approach.

Tailtwister Sat 16-Feb-13 18:19:52

YANBU, she was totally over the top and quite nasty. It was obviously a mistake and not a deliberate act of vandalism. I would be having words with the head teacher.

cansu Sat 16-Feb-13 18:20:36

Whilst this does sound a bit over the top, she will perhaps say that she is concerned that the children don't hurt themselves and others by doing something like this. Personally I wouldn't go in all guns blazing. Focus instead on how you would feel if your ds had been hit on the head by the branch and sustained a concussion or perhaps if he had fallen and hurt himself possibly breaking an arm or something when he landed on the playground. I expect you may then want the school to take firm action and may well feel they weren't supervising properly. I doubt that she has taken the action she has because she has nothing to do on a Friday afternoon.

frustratedworkingmum Sat 16-Feb-13 18:21:08

OTT on behalf of the teacher - but had he been repeatedly told not to swing from the branch?

Not normal boy behaviour, normal BAD behaviour.

I would not be happy though and i would be wanting an explanation, i would not be going about it "loudly" though, as this is also not "normal parent behaviour"

zwischenzug Sat 16-Feb-13 18:21:17

Swinging on a branch is completely unacceptable? Ffs what sort if society are we turning into, reminds me of that daft bint who screamed "omg I touched a tree" on I'm a celeb a couple of years back. Its a fucking tree, interacting with nature is a normal life experience.

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Feb-13 18:21:59

Could I just pick up on this though undiagnosed SN is my mother's gut instinct - if you think he has needs, please get him referred and diagnosed.

All this undiagnosed hypothesis tends to equal making excuses in my book.

As you were .grin

fluffywhitekittens Sat 16-Feb-13 18:23:19

It sounds like a bit too much taking him to every classroom.
But I don't agree that swinging from a tree branch in the school playground is acceptable. What if he'd hurt himself? What if he'd hurt someone else?

PrettyKitty1986 Sat 16-Feb-13 18:23:55

No it's not "normal boy behaviour" - it's completely unacceptable.

Really? I would say it was completely normal, and only naughty if the children have already specifically been told not to swing on the trees. My two boys are relatively well house-trained. They know it's naughty to climb on furniture, swing on things inside...but outside is fair game.
They will climb on trees, over boulders, jump off things. What's so bad about swinging on a tree, assuming they've not been warned to leave it alone?

OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 18:26:11

He had not climbed the tree. The branch was low hanging. She did not mention he had been told not to do it and DS said all his friends were doing it. When the branch came off a girl told the teacher.

LilQueenie Sat 16-Feb-13 18:26:52

its health and safetly crap so they dont get sued. seriously how many of you would be fine with your DC's being allowed to play and if they get unintentionally hurt then see it as a thing that just thappens at times. you know like in the 70's/80's and before. I hate when people make claims because they 'are entitled to lots of cash' Its hardly helping in most cases.

Are children supervises outside in the playground? I remember when the gates were locked and we ran out to play at school. No wonder kids cant do anything for themselves much, society has then under big brother!

whiteflame Sat 16-Feb-13 18:27:33

How do you know she has taken him round the classes?

LilQueenie Sat 16-Feb-13 18:28:08

What if he'd hurt himself? What if he'd hurt someone else?

ITs what happens when kids play sometimes. confused

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Feb-13 18:29:10

They should have trimmed the bloody trees if they don't want perfectly normal behaviour of 5/6/7yo's dangling upside down from something.

This reminds me a story in the local press of an equally batty headmistress, making all the 6th formers march round the school field perimeter following a crucifix she held aloft, on the grounds they'd all bunked mass that morning. She was sacked eventually, for excluding non catholics on the grounds they refused to watch pro life films.

fluffywhitekittens Sat 16-Feb-13 18:29:26

This was in a school playground though, not a country park. If one child can swing on a tree branch then surely they all can, all at the same time maybe? What's the likelihood of someone getting hurt?

Smartiepants79 Sat 16-Feb-13 18:29:31

Can I just ask how you know what happened at school?
Make sure that your info is accurate before you speak to them.
As a teacher I would say try and be as calm as you can manage. Express distress rather than anger as it gets a better reaction.
Anger and accusations tend to make people defensive and can mean they stop listening properly to your justifiable concerns about the impact on your child.
If what you have said is correct it does seem a bit of an overreaction and insensitive given your sons concerns.

outtolunchagain Sat 16-Feb-13 18:29:53

Obviously swinging on branches is not acceptable or safe behaviour in the playground, however it is hardly crime of the century either , especially for a five year old.

If the school has low level branches in the playground and there are small boys at that level then unless they have been strictly told not to swing on them then in my opinion ( as the mother of 3 boys ) then most boys would be tempted to play with them and will need regular reminding of the rule.

The teacher does sound OTT but she was probably focusing on the safety issue . I wouldn't go in all guns blazing but I would have a word.

frustratedworkingmum Sat 16-Feb-13 18:30:08

When my DD started school, her and her friend pulled a scarf tightly around another childs neck, thankfully the teacher noticed in time and was able to intervene. The other little girl was taken to hospital later on in the day as she developed bruising around her eyes shock blush. I rang the head mistress a) to find out what happened and b) to apologise and see what she suggested in terms of tackling with DD. The head was very understanding and told me that no one was "in trouble" as they were playing and all three girls were to "blame" so no bullying behaviour, phew! But still unacceptable and the head did go into all the classes and explain the dangers of such behaviour, my DD was embarrased, but she wont be throttling other children with scarves anytime soon!! I thought the head handled it really well.

It could be that actually, many of the boys have been repeatedly told about the dangers of swinging from the branch? And now the branch has been broken off and your son could have been hurt, so to highlight the danger the head decided to do a similar thing to the one at my DDs school?

If you have a "mothers instinct" about undiagnosed SN i suggest you ask the school about help in getting it diagnosed and the appropriate support for your son rather than shouting your mouth off like a fishwife.

edam Sat 16-Feb-13 18:30:44

I'd find out what actually happened before I'd go in all guns blazing. But if she did indeed take him round all the classes then that's extraordinary and an incredibly stupid thing for her to have done and I would be protesting extremely vehemently.

OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 18:30:46

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fluffywhitekittens Sat 16-Feb-13 18:30:58

And how many of you would be rushing into school to complain if it was your child that got smacked in the face with a tree branch?

5madthings Sat 16-Feb-13 18:31:30

Yanbu I would be complaining if this happened to my children.

Swinging on low hanging branches is something that children will do tho I tell mine to be careful and have a look as some branches are OK to do this, others will get damaged.

edam Sat 16-Feb-13 18:32:21

It is entirely normal childish behaviour to swing from trees - problem these days is that children don't get to do enough of that. But if your teacher tells you not to do it, you are supposed to stop. And if you are punished reasonably for disobeying the teacher, that's fine. Being dragged round the school is not fine.

ghoulelocks Sat 16-Feb-13 18:32:32

Well as a teacher myself I'd say I'd want to arrange a meeting to get to the bottom of this asap. IF it happened as you've heard in a way that demonised your dc I'd make a written complaint. Hopefully the actual events were a bit more sane, ie learning together in the classes and talking about safety and how bad it could be if ds was hurt or some such thing. Odd, but well meant.

BOF Sat 16-Feb-13 18:33:38

She was probably sad and angry about the damaged tree, and just wanted to ram the point home to the other other children how unacceptable it is to do that, rather than demonise him as an individual. We would have had an enormous bollocking for that in my primary school too.

It's done now, and there's nothing to be gained from kicking up a fuss. I'm sure he'll get over it.

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Feb-13 18:34:22

Ooooh you do over react a lot, OP - if there is a medical problem get it diagnosed.

5madthings Sat 16-Feb-13 18:34:27

If my child got hit by agree branch I would tell them it was an accident and these things happen and they need to watch out, I wouldn't complain.

We spent hours as kids swinging on trees, we made rope swings and hammocks and all sorts.

LilQueenie Sat 16-Feb-13 18:34:27

And how many of you would be rushing into school to complain if it was your child that got smacked in the face with a tree branch?

if it was an accident I wouldnt be running to school at all. Nor would I be having words with the tree.... hmm

OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 18:34:43

frustratedworkingmum who said I would be shouting your mouth off like a fishwife. and I think a branch being broken off a tree accidently can hardly be compared to deliberately throttling another child. I would be very concerned if any of my children had done that.

Bubblegum78 Sat 16-Feb-13 18:34:51

YANBU at all!

March in there monday and give her what for! I would also complain in writing, I'm with euphemia on this one...totally disproportionate!

frustratedworkingmum Sat 16-Feb-13 18:36:04

I am willing to be this was a "We told you (the whole school) this would happen, thankfully no one was hurt, now please don't swing from the tree or you wont be able to play in that area" type scenario.

You don't say what "SN" you suspect but some issues really do need to be diagnosed later on, if you are concerned asked to speak to the SENCO and go from there, to be fair, you do have to become a bit of a pushy parent to get these things rolling, but telling people to fuck off and loudly voicing your displeasure is not the way.

SolomanDaisy Sat 16-Feb-13 18:36:28

It's bad behaviour to swing off a tree branch? You're fucking kidding right?

I can just about imagine that the teacher might want to show a branch to the children to demonstrate that it had snapped off and swinging on branches might be dangerous. There is no need to involve your DS in that though. I would be absolutely furious at her humiliating him. He's five. He was swinging on a branch.

frustratedworkingmum Sat 16-Feb-13 18:37:16

I was extremely concerned, which is why i called the head, and other parent immediately to apologise, only to be told it was a game that had gone awry. I do believe you said you would be Loudly complaining.

frustratedworkingmum Sat 16-Feb-13 18:37:56

Wow - march in and give them what for? way to go!! hmm

morethanpotatoprints Sat 16-Feb-13 18:39:09

I think it was unacceptable for any teacher to behave like this. If health and safety was an issue all the dc should have been told about the trees. Ffs, you only have to sneeze in school and there's a risk assessment done.
There's no excuse and the poor kid was not being naughty.
I would find out exactly what happened and then go in all guns blazing grin. But there again, I don't use schools anymore.

Madmum24 Sat 16-Feb-13 18:40:13

Perhaps as a goodwill gesture you could offer to make a donation to Save the Trees if such a charity exists? to pacify the lunatic teacher.

DesiderataHollow Sat 16-Feb-13 18:40:34

I actually bit my tongue off doing just this.
Branch snapped, I landed on my bottom suddenly and managed to shut my mouth on my tongue. All but a very little bit was bitten straight through.

Had it been all the way through I'd have swallowed it. As it was it took two operations to sew it back correctly.

I can kind of see the teacher's reaction as almost reasonable.

fluffywhitekittens Sat 16-Feb-13 18:42:34

Ah but it's ok Desiderata because these things happen, they're only playing, elf n safety gone mad. Not at all a potential risk 200 children swinging on trees.

LilQueenie Sat 16-Feb-13 18:42:38

DesiderataHollow understandably you would feel different to most because of this but its still rare.

BOF Sat 16-Feb-13 18:43:57

It's bad behaviour to damage a tree on school property (or anywhere), yes. Kids can swing on trees if they are sensible enough to judge they can take their weight, but I doubt any school would be happy to allow it on their grounds just from a safety point of view. The little boy may not have realised this, but I'm sure that he and all the other children are well aware now.

SomethingProfound Sat 16-Feb-13 18:45:46

OP why are you attacking posters that agree with you both Holly and frustrated, agreed the teacher was OTT and offered you sensible advice and you have been rude and condescending in return, perhaps your nickname refers to your own inability to react in an appropriate manner.

FlouncingMintyy Sat 16-Feb-13 18:46:27

FGS listen to you on this thread!

"I think I'd give her a slap. What an utter bitch".

"March in there Monday and give her what for!"

"Wow nasty cow I'd go mad for that"

It is a great shame to snap a branch off a tree! Perhaps the school has a strict rule on non branch swinging and your ds broke it.

Please please try and have a bit of respect if you must go in and find out what actually happened, rather than accusing the teacher of "parading" your son and shaming him.

If you go in all guns blazing they will not take you seriously anyway, but I would have thought anyone with one iota of natural intelligence could appreciate that.

crashdoll Sat 16-Feb-13 18:47:41

I would certainly not march in and go mad. I would calmly get the facts from the teacher before you go demanding to see the headteacher. Was it your son who told you what she did?

EndoplasmicReticulum Sat 16-Feb-13 18:49:18

I think a lot depends on how often she had told him / other children not to swing from the tree branches.

And it depends on how the "parading" was done. Was it "look at this naughty boy" or was it "swinging from trees is dangerous"

I suppose it all adds up to getting the school's side of the story first before loudly voicing displeasure.

Lafaminute Sat 16-Feb-13 18:50:16

OF COURSE he should have been reprimanded for his behaviour but humiliating him was so below the belt and unacceptable. I would complain - on the grounds that this is bullying behaviour, on the part of the teacher

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Feb-13 18:50:43

A study by Play England found that we're wrapping up our kids in a cotton-wool culture of safe, soft play.

Over half of all children have been prevented by their parents from climbing trees, for example, whilst 21% are prohibited from playing conkers and 17% stopped from playing tag and chase.

Yet, these outdoor activities - deemed too dangerous for today's generation to take part in - were those most fondly remembered childhood games by 70% of parents questioned. And guess what? 77% of children questioned wished they had more freedom to enjoy these kinds of pastimes.

But it's not just adventure we're depriving our kids of. A study published last month in a child health journal also found that today's 10-year-olds have less muscular strength than children born 10 years before them because they don't do activities like climbing trees and ropes any more. It's action games like this that boost muscular strength so that they can hold their own body weight.

MissAnnersley Sat 16-Feb-13 18:51:09

I agree Mintyy, the language used on this thread about the teacher is a bit scary.

I totally, totally get why you're angry - I would be too but you need to dial it down a bit so you can get to the bottom of what happened.

Poster saying they would slap the teacher? Really?

MrsDeVere Sat 16-Feb-13 18:52:59

The school does NOT have to agree that your child needs to be referred. What utter nonsense. Schools are schools. They are not in charge of your child's medical needs. If the GP told you this he is fobbing you off. Go back and see another GP.

What sort of SN do you think he has?

Its a bit confusing though. Do you think this is 'normal boy behaviour' or behaviour due to his un dx SN?

Its not normal boy behaviour. I have four. Some of them would, some of them wouldn't. Its not abnormal childish behaviour, but I wouldn't expect a boy to do it and a girl not to.

If she did parade him around she was OTT. Find out what happened first. Ask them for their version of events before you kick off.

maddening Sat 16-Feb-13 18:53:39

She has punished him as if he had done an act of deliberate vandalism. I would speak to her - get her side then decide what to do. If you are unsure then tell her you will consider her response and get back to her - then if you want to go ahead you have more info to hand when drafting your complaint.

BOF Sat 16-Feb-13 18:54:32

Hollyberry, that's all well and good, but even in the seventies the teachers would have gone apeshit if you'd been doing all that on school grounds.

Euphemia Sat 16-Feb-13 18:56:12

By some posters' reckoning, normal boy behaviour would presumably include clambering over the chairs and under the tables too? Throwing rubbers, mucking about throwing water in the toilets? Should we just let them get on with it?

soverylucky Sat 16-Feb-13 18:56:16

I agree with flouncing

Find out calmly what happened and take it from there. I am shock that people think that it is ok to go in and slap her...but then thinking about it, I am not really.

fluffywhitekittens Sat 16-Feb-13 18:56:35

HollyBerry I don't disagree. I just think there is a time and a place for tree climbing, swinging and it's not during school break times.

Meglet Sat 16-Feb-13 18:57:03

It's normal child behaviour to swing on branches. A stern telling off would suffice.

I really hope the teacher didn't march him around making an example of him, he's reception year right? sad.

soverylucky Sat 16-Feb-13 18:57:22

Too add - I hate when people let naughty children behave badly because they are boys. Boys are perfectly capable of behaving themselves and I hate to see them labelled like this.

LilQueenie Sat 16-Feb-13 18:57:42

just for the record I am a girl and I climbed trees and anything else that took my fancy. I fell got hurt and got up and done it again. I was encouraged to do it again so I didnt get afraid of what had hurt me.

SmileAndPeopleSmileWithYou Sat 16-Feb-13 18:58:17

A 5 year old boy is supposed to be inquisitive and would naturally want to swing on a tree branch. It is up to the school to make it a rule that they cannot do this (which they may have done). If this has been done then yes it is bad behaviour.

The punishment was not right. He is only 5! How demoralising.
I agree with previous posts, this could have been highlighted to the whole school without subjecting him to that. i.e. "It is not safe to swing on branches as someone could get hurt, this branch has come off and we are lucky this time".

Go in and calmly ask about the circumstances before expressing your worries.

Euphemia Sat 16-Feb-13 18:59:01

Indeed, Holly, but is it the school's job to facilitate this? Should trees be planted in the school ground specifically for children to climb on/swing on? Or should children be taught to respect school property?

Pagwatch Sat 16-Feb-13 18:59:41

I really do want to know how the OP knows what the teacher did?

Feenie Sat 16-Feb-13 19:01:47

* MrsRajeshKoothrappali Sat 16-Feb-13 18:15:05*

I think I'd give her a slap.

What an utter bitch.

Yes, get yourself charged with assault, that will definitely help the situation. hmm

crashdoll Sat 16-Feb-13 19:02:23

I wonder how many times he was asked to stop....? Not condoning the teacher's behaviour btw but do we even know who gave the account of what happened?

cheesesarnie Sat 16-Feb-13 19:03:55

he should have been told off but not humiliated.

i would make an appointment to speak to her and state (calmly) that you feel that she over reacted.

countrykitten Sat 16-Feb-13 19:05:12

As a little girl I was always hanging out of trees and such (bit never school trees!) - so a bit annoyed at your sexist assumptions about 'normal boy behaviour' OP.

Apart from that, swinging on trees at school is not good behaviour at all and if he has been asked not to do it then he deserves to be punished as he has damaged the tree as well as putting himself at risk. You sound exactly like the sort of parent who would rush in all guns blazing had another child torn off a tree branch and it had fallen on/hurt your son in some way. Many school rules are in place for health and safety reasons. Let him climb trees to his heart's content when he is not in school - then it is YOUR responsibility if he falls and not a teacher's.

The fact that you think he was 'paraded' around classrooms...hmmmm. Who told you about this? Maybe the Head of KS1 was concerned about safety and was driving home a point - you were not there,you don't know.

To go in all guns blazing would make you look like a fool - get the facts straight and then say politely whatever you feel you need to say. One of the irrefutable facts is that your child misbehaved at school so try getting your head around that before haranguing teachers.

And as for the mother's instinct on SEN. Get it sorted out (or not) and don't use this as a half excuse for poor behaviour - it is insulting to kids who have SEN.

WhatKindofFool Sat 16-Feb-13 19:05:46

I think the school is right for not allowing swinging from trees. However, the teacher sounds like a nasty piece of work. I cannot bear humiliation like this. Go in and calmly explain that you think the teacher's reaction was unacceptable.

badtemperedaldbitch Sat 16-Feb-13 19:05:54

On my dd's first day of school, she fell out of a tree.... They are encouraged to climb...

I was thrilled. We moved from a city to the countryside and I'd much rather her fall out a tree than not know what one looked like

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Feb-13 19:07:28

Indeed, Holly, but is it the school's job to facilitate this? Should trees be planted in the school ground specifically for children to climb on/swing on? Or should children be taught to respect school property?

I agree with you there BUT we live in a compo culture, therefore it is the schools responsibility to remove/reduce risk.

Personally I think it's someones responsibility to look where they are going, but I dare say, others will disagree with me regarding uneaven paving slabs etc. Tree with low branches = legitimate dangling post. Trimmed tree = no dangling. Problem solved.

BarbarianMum Sat 16-Feb-13 19:07:55

Not normal boy behaviour, normal child's behaviour - lots of girls like swinging on tree branches too.

I help run a forest playgroup and we positively encourage tree climbing and swinging. Trees can be castles, horses to ride, a pirate ship, a secret hideout....

And yes, I think schools should plant trees and shrubs specifically for children to play in, around and with. Willfully damaging trees isn't good but tbh they are tough things after the sapling stage, as long as you leave their bark on.

Teacher's reaction way over the top.

countrykitten Sat 16-Feb-13 19:08:02

Oh and I completely agree with other posters about the whole 'boys will be boys' labelling. These things have been proven to be self fulfilling prophecies which might a few things about some adult men.

countrykitten Sat 16-Feb-13 19:08:30

The missing word is explain

countrykitten Sat 16-Feb-13 19:10:48

We have lots of trees where I teach. No pupil ever climbs them as they know they would be in serious trouble. It is a senior school though so slightly different.

OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 19:13:12

I have a DD in Yr 5 and she confirmed what DS had told me as some of her friends had been in the corridor and heard it so told her. I also have a DS in Yr 1 and he was taken into his class. I have no problem in her telling him off but I do have a big problem in her parading him around the other classes and the after school club. When she phoned me she started off by saying DS had 'done something terrible' and I thought she was a overreacting but agreed that he should not have done it and I would talk to him about the environment etc as I have not brought my DC up to be vandals but this was not vandalism it was little boys playing quite normally!

Voicing my displeasure loudly is not the same as kicking off or ranting like a fishwife that's what I'm doing on here hmm.

DS has sensory issues, concentration problems and is very hyper. My other DCs are not like that and yes, my GP did say that me saying that he needs to be assessed was not enough and he would need a letter from the school.

Feenie Sat 16-Feb-13 19:13:25

We also have trees in a grassed area used in summer - nobody climbs them, they know not to. They are in kind of copses, so it would be impossible to watch to see if they were climbing safely (4 -11 Primary).

Marcheline Sat 16-Feb-13 19:13:57

Surely for her to be head of KS1, the teacher is good at her job, well respected, etc? You probably need to ask for a meeting to find out exactly what happened because a 5 year old is not necessarily the most reliable witness. Then if things really did happen the way you say in your OP, you would be fully justified in making a formal complaint.

I dont know that it is reasonable for you, at this stage, to say that she has 'ignored everything' that you talked about in your meeting before your DS started school.

It allseems like a very strange overreaction, I'm sure there must be more to the story. I hope you can get to the bottom of it on monday.

Feenie Sat 16-Feb-13 19:14:38

this was not vandalism it was little boys playing quite normally!

Our little boys wouldn't do this. I have a massive issue with your ridiculous stereotyping of boys here, OP. hmm

BarbarianMum Sat 16-Feb-13 19:15:07

And we build fires, and dens, and play in streams and dig great big dirty holes. We do not minimise or eradicate risk, we manage it and teach the children to manage it also.

Of course not all of this can be directly translated to a school playground but the idea that they need to be sterile places devoid of any excitement is profoundly bloody depressing. Why don't we just sit them infront of a screen each break. Nice and safe.

digerd Sat 16-Feb-13 19:15:26

I don't know one girl who wanted to or did climb trees. And know only one girl who climbed a lamp post and did it to show if the boys can do it so can she, and that was my 4 year-old sister. She also at 2 showed off to a friend that she could do a backward somersault out of the bedroom window, which she did and fractured her skull. But she never climbed a tree or swung on the branches when she got a bit older as said she knew that was dangerous. She loved her kiss chases, but deliberately slowed down as could out run all the boys.

Marcheline Sat 16-Feb-13 19:16:28

Ah sorry op x posted. So he really was taken into other classrooms? How bizarre.

You should go to head.

Feenie Sat 16-Feb-13 19:16:31

I don't know one girl who wanted to or did climb trees

I climbed trees. I used to sit in them and read.

Feenie Sat 16-Feb-13 19:17:22

Disclaimer - if I'd been told not to at school, I wouldn't have though. We had apple trees in the garden.

OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 19:18:14

Again, the tree was not climbed. This school has also banned many playtime games and any 'rough housing' is a 'red slip' crime even if the DCs are loving it hmm

Sort of makes me wonder if it's because the playground duty teachers prefer to stand around chatting drinking tea rather than actually supervising the DCs playing.

Pagwatch Sat 16-Feb-13 19:18:24

Op.

You GP is totally wrong. My son wasn't actually at school when he was diagnosed.
Go back to your GP and tell him you want an assessment.

countrykitten Sat 16-Feb-13 19:19:19

confused by that last post....?

BarbarianMum - what you do sounds great but you must understand that because of parents like the OP schools can not be like this?

Fairenuff Sat 16-Feb-13 19:19:26

By some posters' reckoning, normal boy behaviour would presumably include clambering over the chairs and under the tables too? Throwing rubbers, mucking about throwing water in the toilets? Should we just let them get on with it?

Quite. Instead of taking the 'boys will be boys' stance, perhaps we should educate them to respect property. And to pee in the toilet, not all over the floor, as happens almost daily at my primary school.

OP How do you know what happened? Several posters have asked this and you haven't answered them yet (unless I missed it).

Also, you do not need school's consent for your gp to refer your ds to the paediatrician. You should follow this up if you suspect sn. It may be too early to diagnose but find out when you can get the earliest appointment.

Fwiw my son pulled some flower heads off flowers in a pot when he was in reception. I took him to the garden centre to replace them out of his own pocket money and the next day we went to apologise to the teacher. Everything is a learning opportunity with children. What do you want your son to learn from this episode?

Startail Sat 16-Feb-13 19:19:43

DS may or may not know not to swing off trees in school, but assuming it wasn't deliberate vandalism.

Which it probably at 5 wasn't the teacher was ridiculously OTT and I'd be writing a very stern email to the HT

DD1 climbed every tree in sight. I think her long suffering HT muttered down please, now and again. I doubt it had any effect, she just couldn't resist.

Marcheline Sat 16-Feb-13 19:19:49

Digerd that is actually quite sad.

That sort of perpetuation of gender stereotypes is really worrying.

Pagwatch Sat 16-Feb-13 19:20:31

DD climbs trees. Most of her friends do. I did.

I genuinely don't understand how anyone can not know a single girl who wanted to or dd climb trees. [boggle]

OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 19:20:36

*stereotyping of boys*hmm. Er they are different to girls you know speaking as a parent of both. OK for MY boys it's perfectly normal, happy now?

countrykitten Sat 16-Feb-13 19:20:55

ORM - your comment about the teachers drinking tea is well out of line. Have you a problem with teachers for some reason?

TheLittleWhiteRabbit Sat 16-Feb-13 19:22:10

If you have other reasons to think the teacher goes OTT, if the teacher is treating your child badly, get your child transferred to the other class in the year, talk to the head, perhaps get your child into another school.

CwtchesAndCuddles Sat 16-Feb-13 19:22:10

Your GP is fobbing you off - change GPs or go back and insist on a referal.

Euphemia Sat 16-Feb-13 19:23:41

Sort of makes me wonder if it's because the playground duty teachers prefer to stand around chatting drinking tea rather than actually supervising the DCs playing.

Oh come on, you can't have it both ways! In your opinion the branch was fair game as it was down low enough for DS to swing on, and at the same time it happened because the teachers weren't supervising properly?!

countrykitten Sat 16-Feb-13 19:24:17

So now she should change schools because her child misbehaved at his current one? wtf?

ninah Sat 16-Feb-13 19:26:07

at my last school the HT encouraged children to climb trees, dig holes and make dens around the edge of their large outdoor area. It was a great place to work but I suspect somewhat unique

ninah Sat 16-Feb-13 19:26:49

I prefer coffee btw

HollyBerryBush Sat 16-Feb-13 19:27:19

I climbed trees, I lived in trees all summer - but those were the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and we buggered off up the woods all day and came home for tea.

edam Sat 16-Feb-13 19:30:57

Of course girls climb trees! Even I did it, and I was a pale bookworm who neither particularly physically adept nor brave. Still am, really, but have given up climbing trees. grin

riverboat Sat 16-Feb-13 19:33:02

Well I'd guess your DS did need to be reprimanded, but the punishment sounds really severe in relation to the crime, unless there's something more we don't know about. Even then...it does seem pretty sadistic taking him round the whole school like that.

I definitely think that you should speak to the teacher to find out more about what happened, both in terms of what your DS did exactly, and what his punishment was and why.

Euphemia Sat 16-Feb-13 19:33:34

It's not about whether it's good for children to climb trees, it's about school rules. If the school says no swinging/climbing on the school trees then that's that.

The teacher's way of dealing with it was inappropriate, if she indeed did what the OP's DCs say she did.

aJumpedUpPantryBoy Sat 16-Feb-13 19:35:11

Sort of makes me wonder if it's because the playground duty teachers prefer to stand around chatting drinking tea rather than actually supervising the DCs playing.

Yep - that's playground duty

Along with supervising a large number of pupils, often with areas that can only be seen from certain spots
Sorting out/preventing/pre-empting argumements
DEaling with upset children
Making sure children aren't being left out
Doing your best to ensure no bullying is happening
Thinking that you need the loo but won't be able to go until dinnertime
DEaling with any accidents

MrsDeVere Sat 16-Feb-13 19:35:12

Bloody hell you are quite defensive aren't you?

I gave you advice to go back and see another GP. I didn't accuse you of lying.

Mother of four boys, one girl and I work for sort of team that would be assessing your boy for the SN you think he has.

But what do I know?

FlouncingMintyy Sat 16-Feb-13 19:44:11

I don't know why any of you are bothering with the op tbh. From the way she posts it isn't the teacher who comes across as "fucking loopy".

Jemma1111 Sat 16-Feb-13 19:44:57

Imo , it doesn't matter whether the op's dc was in the right or wrong for swinging on the tree (although I can't see the problem with it ).

What would totally piss me off if this was my dc would be the fact that the teacher paraded him around from class to class obviously humiliating him . I would definitely be seeing the head and making an official complaint .

countrykitten Sat 16-Feb-13 19:46:59

Beginning to wonder tbh...feeling sorry for the teacher on Monday already! I must say, the old 'boys will be boys' from parents as an excuse for poor behaviour does grate somewhat as it really smacks of the 'my child can do no wrong' brigade.

Hope the teacher manages to put your mind at rest OP and that you manage to be civil to her.

Catsdontcare Sat 16-Feb-13 19:51:51

Not sure why the OP is getting such a hammering. What her ds did wasn't outside the realms of normal for any 5 year old. It would have been perfectly fine for the teacher to have had stern words and mentioned it at home time.

Parading him around the school was OTT and an exercise in humiliation. I would definitely be having words about how this was managed.

On the subject of SN the OP suspects it and has seen her GP. He has said she needs a letter from the school, I and many others know this is not the case but the OP might not be aware of this and like many would take the GP's word at face value. I think it was pretty shitty of hollyberrybush to suggest that the OP should just get on and get him diagnosed it's not that simple and it takes a long time.

MrsDeVere Sat 16-Feb-13 19:52:12

Teacher shouldn't have paraded the child.

However, even if a sibling did back up the story, I would want to hear the other side first.

But that is only based on 21 years of parenting five kids and being a professional in early years. So I know jack grin

It could happen. Schools can be weird places where small offences get blown out of proportion.

Overhanging branches are going to be a draw for a lot of kids. Asking for trouble really.

yellowbrickrd Sat 16-Feb-13 19:58:32

OP, you've got an attitude problem.

That said, I used to go in and help when ds was in ks1 and once witnessed the head of ks1 bellowing at the top of her voice at a little boy, in front of the whole class, because of 'rough play' at break. No one had been injured and the boy was never disruptive or violent to others. The poor boy was bright red and literally squirming with fear and humiliation. So it can certainly happen and should be confronted.

OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 20:08:20

Anyway, thanks all input. I know IANBU and pretty much knew I would get this response.

DD said the teacher told them at the afterschool club that DS had been very, very naughty so carried on demonising him to the end of the day. Not all teachers are lovely, inspirational people and this one has been an absolute cow to my little boy IMO so I shall stand up for him and make sure she is aware of my view of her.

Pagwatch Sat 16-Feb-13 20:11:15

If you know you are right and thatyou would get 'this response' I wonder then that you posted in aibu...

Go back to the GP though. If he needs support a diagnosis is a good start.

OverReactionMuch Sat 16-Feb-13 20:11:51

My attitude is perfectly fine. Are you referring to me standing up for myself against the many rude and irrational posters on here?

Fairenuff Sat 16-Feb-13 20:14:38

I suppose you can phrase things to give a different impression.

The teacher paraded my child around the school.

The teacher walked my child around the school.

The teacher accompanied my child to several classrooms.

The teacher demonised my child...

Pagwatch Sat 16-Feb-13 20:17:37

We need an "iANBU and you can fuck off" section

BOF Sat 16-Feb-13 20:18:00

Can you pinpoint what you have found rude and irrational? I'm not sure what you mean.

Pagwatch Sat 16-Feb-13 20:18:35

We need an "iANBU and you can fuck off" section

BrigitBigKnickers Sat 16-Feb-13 20:20:14

Tree murderer!

Totally nuts! I could vaguely understand her being cross if he had been told repeatedly not to do it but he is a 5 year old boy- swinging on trees is part of being 5! Total over reaction!

soverylucky Sat 16-Feb-13 20:25:49

I hope that you get this sorted op but you must be calm when finding out both the facts and if necessary, complaining about how she handled the situation.

EndoplasmicReticulum Sat 16-Feb-13 20:27:26

I think when the Op is saying "rude and irrational" she means that some posters do not agree with her. Which begs the question why post a thread in AIBU if you have already made yourmind up that you are not?

MrsDeVere Sat 16-Feb-13 20:27:26

I agree with pag.

If you want to stand up for your son go back to your GP and do it there.

I am surprised someone as assertive as you let it be.

iwantanafternoonnap Sat 16-Feb-13 20:31:03

I am still laughing at people saying that it is not normal behaviour for kids to climb/swing from trees!! I actively encourage my DS to climb trees and I climb with him.

The National Trust has it as one of its 'things to do before you are 11 and 3/4' along with swinging on a rope swing. It is normal, very normal and I know loads of girls who climb and have climbed trees. I did it a lot as a kid along with swinging from anything that I could the same as all my friends.

Yes the teacher was out of order to do what she did and it is a massive over reaction to a kid swinging from a tree even if he had been told not too.

The wind rips branches off trees too for all those that think trees should not be climbed upon etc.....you going to go parade the wind around a school! FFS!

Mmmm, I really struggle to believe that a teacher would parade a little child around all classes and then the asc and demonise him until the end of the day without another adult saying something, I really think you need to talk to the school to get clarification, something doesnt sound right about it all.

soverylucky Sat 16-Feb-13 20:32:53

I don't think anyone has said that climbing trees is not normal behaviour - people are pointing out that it is sometimes inappropriate behaviour. Two different things.

Teachers dont call children naughty, they might say the behaviour is naughter but not the child.

MrsDeVere Sat 16-Feb-13 20:33:19

its not normal behaviour 'for boys'.

Anymore than it would be abnormal 'for girls'.

Pandemoniaa Sat 16-Feb-13 20:35:44

As you are so certain YANBU I'm left wondering why you bothered to start the thread in the first place.

Imaginethat Sat 16-Feb-13 20:35:52

By contrast, my 5yo was caught trying to wrestle a branch from a school tree. A teacher aide reported to me that she dashed over to deal with it before a teacher proper noticed. She said, no breaking branches darling, we leave the trees to grow. To which he replied, But why? Why do we need all trees for air? I need this branch for my broomstick! And so it went, gently resolved. Thank you kind teacher aide. My point being that the concern at this school is for respecting nature. There are several trees which are allowed to be climbed, the others must be left in peace. The swinging on a branch being a safety issue surprised me. Not in UK!

Euphemia Sat 16-Feb-13 20:39:12

iwantanafternoonnap just how many of these is it appropriate for children to do in school?

Climb a tree
Roll down a really big hill
Camp out in the wild
Build a den
Skim a stone
Run around in the rain
Fly a kite
Catch a fish with a net
Eat an apple straight from a tree
Play conkers
Throw some snow
Hunt for treasure on the beach
Make a mud pie
Dam a stream
Go sledging
Bury someone in the sand
Set up a snail race
Balance on a fallen tree
Swing on a rope swing
Make a mud slide
Eat blackberries growing in the wild
Take a look inside a tree
Visit an island
Feel like you're flying in the wind
Make a grass trumpet
Hunt for fossils and bones
Watch the sun wake up
Climb a huge hill
Get behind a waterfall
Feed a bird from your hand
Hunt for bugs
Find some frogspawn
Catch a butterfly in a net
Track wild animals
Discover what's in a pond
Call an owl
Check out the crazy creatures in a rock pool
Bring up a butterfly
Catch a crab
Go on a nature walk at night
Plant it, grow it, eat it
Go wild swimming
Go rafting
Light a fire without matches
Find your way with a map and compass
Try bouldering
Cook on a campfire
Try abseiling
Find a geocache
Canoe down a river

They all sound great, but does that automatically mean desirable to be done at school?

Fairenuff Sat 16-Feb-13 20:41:31

Would you, for example, think it ok for your child to climb the trees in your neighbours garden? No. Because those trees are 'off limits'. Trees in your local park or woodland are fine. Trees in school are off limits.

It's not about tree climbing, it's about breaking rules.

FreyaSnow Sat 16-Feb-13 20:42:27

There are some trees which are acceptable to swing from and some which are not.

If the tree in question is a delicate thing which your child has damaged by wrenching off a branch off it on purpose while swinging, that is rather a different matter to if it is an enormous oak tree where nobody would expect a large branch to snap.

DD's school had trees. They were delicate and in a nature area that the children and parents had worked on. If a child had gone out and damaged one of them, a big deal would have been made of it.

The 'typical boy behaviour' comment gives the impression that your son is allowed to get away with some rather impetuous behaviour which most parents would deal with, but perhaps that was not your intention when you made that comment.

FlouncingMintyy Sat 16-Feb-13 20:48:58

Who has said it is not normal for children to climb trees?

Thymeout Sat 16-Feb-13 20:49:50

Yes, Freya - just what I was thinking.

If this tree were a young tree, planted as part of the landscaping, at some expense, I'd be hopping mad that a child had thoughtlessly damaged it by pulling one of its branches off. And I'd want all the other children to know that it was wrong to deter them from doing the same.

Get the true facts, OP, before you go in with all guns blazing.

mousebacon Sat 16-Feb-13 20:58:41

I used to work at a lovely little school where the playground was surrounded by trees and a little trail for the children to explore. All the children knew they could explore the wooded area but they were not allowed to pull the plants, swing or climb on the trees or anything of the sort.

Even though these were clear school rules there were always those children (boys and girls) who couldn't resist climbing on the low branches.

The reason for the rule was purely to protect children from hurting themselves and to protect the school from irate parents whose children had fallen. It's a sad fact these days that people are quick to look to legal action when there's potentially compensation to be had.

The point I'm trying to make is that the trees etc were a lovely resource for the school but we had to protect ourselves as well.

Do I think your DS should have been told off for climbing/swinging? Yes.
Do I think the teacher should have taken him round the classes? No - but I would probably have used it as a prompt for assembly the next day.

mousebacon Sat 16-Feb-13 21:06:01

I agree with you Euphemia

I think there's a tendency for some people to think schools have the capacity to provide those sort of experiences. Lovely though that may be (alongside tree climbing) those are the sort of things I'd want my children to do as part of our family or as a guide/scout etc. The focus on sats, league tables and the constant assessments have killed much of the spontaneity we used to have in our primary schools.

HollaAtMeBaby Sat 16-Feb-13 22:26:19

YABU and I can't believe how many people are up in arms at the thought of a child having to face consequences for what sounds like wilful destruction. Tree branches don't just pop off the tree - you have to repeatedly pull and swing on them and you can hear and see them gradually breaking. Part of letting children interact with nature is teaching them to respect and care for it.

FamiliesShareGerms Sat 16-Feb-13 22:45:14

If parading a 5yo around to every class to show them the broken branch and say how naughty the boy had been to swing on it is deemed suitable punishment, I would dread to think what would be done for something more serious (bullying, fighting etc)

I agree with some other posters that it doesn't seem quite right (even going into after school club??)

bugster Sat 16-Feb-13 23:01:06

YANBU. Teacher sounds like a total head case.

Agree that swinging on a tree is completely normal behaviour - if told to stop they should, but not ever trying swinging on a tree would be more worrying.

Fairenuff Sat 16-Feb-13 23:01:06

I think this is a one-sided view. It's come second hand from children who saw and heard some part of this but by all means not all of it.

The OP uses phrases like 'paraded round' and 'demonised' to make it seem even worse.

It is extremely unlikely that all these facts are true. OP should probably go and speak calmly with the teacher to find out what happened before jumping in to 'defend' her 'humiliated' son.

And she should be ready to apologise on his behalf for him breaking the rules and damaging property, should that turn out to be the case.

fluffypillow Sat 16-Feb-13 23:02:13

That is really nasty. I would talk to the Teacher about this, and then the Head. It was a complete over reaction.

FreyaSnow Sat 16-Feb-13 23:27:31

Whatever the child had done, it would be an over-reaction to treat a five year old like that. I think the best solution would be to point out that it isn't right to take a five year old round various classrooms telling them off, and talk to the school about that. Trying to defend the tree swinging is besides the point.

rollmopses Sat 16-Feb-13 23:29:51

When has climbing trees and swinging from branches become 'BAD' behaviour?
Give me strength............

Feenie Sat 16-Feb-13 23:33:50

When they have been asked not to. And only then.

Keep up!

Euphemia Sat 16-Feb-13 23:33:57

When it's causing damage to school property.

FreyaSnow Sat 16-Feb-13 23:34:02

It always has been if you damage a tree. I'd have been told off for it as a child and had a very outdoorsy sort of childhood in a rural area.

DeepRedBetty Sat 16-Feb-13 23:35:05

I remember destroying a young tree by climbing it and most of the lower branches got broken, when I was about five. My dsis was three, she was involved but it was my idea. It was in the garden of the pub that friends of my parents had recently taken over, they'd posted me and dsis and their own dds (definitely littler than me) out there while they drunk a couple of G&Ts had some refreshments on the way back from some massive family jaunt.

It really hadn't occurred to me until I saw my mum's face that I'd done anything wrong.

So... yabu to say boys will be boys - because girls will be destructive little monkeys too.

yanbu that children that age really don't understand about permanent damage. If your ds had not been told not to muck about with the trees in the playground, the punishment is disproportionate. If he had, it isn't. If my parents and Mr and Mrs Whatsit had said 'Don't do that' I wouldn't have done it, and if I'd heard them say that and did it all the same I would have deserved the punishment. I had (and still have) a fairly strong sense of natural justice. Most children do.

I don't remember being punished for that crime, so I'm pretty certain I'd not been told not to do that. My parents were pretty strict but always fair.

If you think ds has sn, you need to start the ball rolling with diagnosis and statement. It takes for bloody ever. DNephew has had to wait until halfway into Yr 2 to get his Aspergers official, and that process started with a Report to GP from the leader of his nursery when he was only just turned three.

MidniteScribbler Sun 17-Feb-13 00:30:59

From the OP and her comments and reactions, I suspect that there is a LOT more to this story, aside from her darling little precious can do no wrong, and if he does, it's because he's obviously undiagnosed SN. Child may have mouthed off after being told not to do it, child may have hurt another student by hitting them with the branch when it broke, child may have deliberately done it. I also doubt that a teacher would "parade" and "demonise" a child around if it were an accident. I'm voting for deliberate act with mouthing off included. Probably behaviour he learnt from his parent.

MardyArsedMidlander Sun 17-Feb-13 09:17:14

Nice irony in the OP stating that her child has undiagnosed SNs- but seeing nothing wrong in calling the teacher 'fucking loopy'.. angry

Feminine Sun 17-Feb-13 09:44:34

op Just go to the school in the morning eh?

wink

Euphemia Sun 17-Feb-13 10:04:23

And please come back to update us, whatever the truth of the matter. smile

OverReactionMuch Sun 17-Feb-13 10:19:41

Honestly nutters abound on here hmm.

frustratedworkingmum Sun 17-Feb-13 10:23:47

The certainly do! grin

MusicalEndorphins Sun 17-Feb-13 10:29:53

Unless they have been told not to keep off the tree's, your son was not breaking a school rule.
The teacher was way out of line making a spectacle of your son.
The days of sitting wearing a dunce cap at the front of the classroom are gone.

MusicalEndorphins Sun 17-Feb-13 10:30:36

Opps, I meant to say
"Unless they have been told to keep off the tree's"

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 10:31:54

Of course they had been told to keep off the trees.

Euphemia Sun 17-Feb-13 10:42:16

Oh so this is one of those Am I Being Unreasonables where it's actually a rhetorical question?

Wish I had known that seven pages ago.

Pagwatch Sun 17-Feb-13 10:55:54

Add message | Report | Message poster OverReactionMuch Sun 17-Feb-13 10:19:41
Honestly nutters abound on here .

<<irony-o-meter explodes>>

MrsDeVere Sun 17-Feb-13 11:05:31

I am still trying to work this out

1. annoyed at being pulled up on 'normal' behaviour
2. annoyed that child is in trouble for behaviour caused by SN

Which one is it? Normal behaviour that shouldn't be sanctioned or behavior caused by SN so should be understood?

PessaryPam Sun 17-Feb-13 12:32:20

I think there are a lot of defensive teachers on this thread OP.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 12:36:55

Yes, PessaryPam (ewww) - weird that, isn't it; especially when you consider the first reply encouraged 'giving her slap'?

Who would have thought anyone would object? confused

GrowSomeCress Sun 17-Feb-13 12:37:08

She's being over the top but that does not warrant calling her 'fucking loopy' or needing a 'slap' angry

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 12:37:47

Some really lovely people on this thread. hmm

MrsWeasley Sun 17-Feb-13 12:43:50

I'm surprised that there were low branches in your school - our H&S rep wouldn't allow it in our area (after a little one lost the sight in one eye after jumping and hitting a branch sad).

We would point out an incident to other pupils in the class or other classes to point out its unacceptable but would never march a child into another class. I would speak to the teacher and ask why this happened and ask for their discipline policy.

Fairenuff Sun 17-Feb-13 12:46:01

We don't actually know yet what the teacher did, as OP has not asked her. I suspect OP is not coming back to this thread anyway.

Fwiw I took a parent to see the damage her son had caused at school one day. It was not deliberate, but he was mucking around and misbehaving. He was only 6 but the damage was huge.

The best way to inform the parent, was simply to show her. She was shocked and her son was upset. This was all a natural consequence of seeing the damage, not due to anything I did or said.

BUT, she could have come on mn stating that,

'ds was only doing what little boys do, but she came marching over to me on the playground and insisted I look at the 'damage'. My ds was distraught at being paraded back into the building and I was humiliated'

It just depends what slant you put on the story.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Feb-13 12:55:14

On the brightside if the OP goes in to the school with this attitude she will at least be banned from the premises.

MerryCouthyMows Sun 17-Feb-13 12:56:03

Our Primary has an adventure playground with monkey bars in the playground.

In the 8 years that my DC's have attended the school, 5 DC's have had broken arms. Not one parent has sued.

Risk is a natural part of growing up. Why do we as parents feel the need to wrap our DC's up in cotton wool these days?

I know that my DC's would be very unhappy if they weren't allowed to play on the adventure playground.

Of course there's going to be accidents. It's a normal part of growing up.

Swinging on trees IS normal behaviour for a 5yo, boy or girl.

The teacher overreacted, AND humiliated the DC afterwards. I WOULD be going into the school.

TheOriginalLadyFT Sun 17-Feb-13 12:58:37

God what depressing reading some of this is! Of course swinging on tree branches is normal - for boys and girls

Do we actually want to produce a generation of children so fearful and risk averse that they never challenge themselves or explore their limits?

DS went to a fabulous little school ( now sadly shut and still much lamented, most of all by him) which encouraged the children to climb trees in the grounds. The trees had bee graded on how difficult they were to climb and colour coded accordingly. They also had dens and playing out clothes so they could run wild at break times and burn off their energy

He learnt more in two years there than every other school he's been to - and he ran out the door for the bus on a morning, he loved going so much

As for parading him round the classrooms - that is unacceptable and I would be giving her what for. What is wrong with having a word at morning assembly and just asking children not to do such things?

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 12:59:23

You may not sue/complain/go to the papers etc but a certain kind of parents would - I include the OP in that.

PessaryPam - what a very silly remark to make.

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 13:01:50

No one is saying that climbing trees is not normal behaviour! But if a child has been told not to, does so, breaks the branch then he has behaved badly. Simple.

Comparing one school to another on this is pretty pointless isn't it? Policies differ,schools differ.

Fairenuff Sun 17-Feb-13 13:05:07

There will be other things in school which are 'out of bounds' though Merry, such as sliding down banisters, jumping down stairs. Things which are fun, natural but not appropriate for school. We have all sorts of play equipment in school and we have trees.

The children are all taught that the trees are not for playing with. They can sit in the shade under them, they can search for insects crawling on them, they can do 'rubbings' on them, they can run around them and play hide and seek behind them. But they are not for climbing.

None of the children have trouble understanding this. I'm surpised that so many adults on this thread do tbh.

ComposHat Sun 17-Feb-13 13:05:57

swinging on a branch til it breaks is NOT normal behaviour. it was bad behaviour and warranted punishment, but this was disproportionate. Something like being kept inside for a couple of breaktimes would be more apropriate.

so she was YABU for humiliating your son, but YABU in utterly excusing his initial bad behaviour.

TheOriginalLadyFT Sun 17-Feb-13 13:05:58

As far as I'm aware countrykitten the OP's child hadnt been told not to - but thanks for telling me my opinion is pointless hmm

Euphemia Sun 17-Feb-13 13:06:42

FFS it's not about whether children should climb/swing on trees, it's about breaking school rules and causing damage to school property!

As I said above, it's perfectly normal child behaviour to clamber over the chairs and under tables, and to chuck water, soap and paper towels around in the toilets, but it's not acceptable behaviour at school.

What parents choose to allow in their own homes is up to them.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 13:07:07

It's obvious that it wasn't allowed, tbh.

FakePlasticLobsters Sun 17-Feb-13 13:14:20

We are lucky enough to live right beside woodland, in the centre of which is a playground and visitors centre which is very popular locally.

Next week it's half term and if we are lucky with the weather the wood will be filled with families enjoying the woods, and that includes having their young children climbing on and swinging from tree branches while they play.

In fact the visitors centre staff go all out to encourage it, they run special events to show children how to enjoy the woods, they build those bivouac things with them and make obstacle courses from fallen logs etc. Last summer they had a day specifically for building rope swings in a tree.

They do everything possible to get people to visit the woods and actually enjoy being there and climbing trees is part of that. They don't want any damage done to their trees but they've found a positive way of showing people how to have fun while still being safe.

It's not ideal that your son broke the branch, but it wasn't deliberate and swinging from a tree branch isn't bad behaviour.

The teacher could have spoken to your son to say that the trees are not strong enough to support several children swinging from them and that they don't want the children to be injured or the trees to be damaged.

They could even have discussed in assembly the need to stay safe and not damage the trees, without naming any names.

But taking him from class to class, with the branch, and focusing on how naughty he was to break the branch was wrong in my opinion. It's something you would do to humiliate someone and no good teacher would ever do that as they would know it's not the way to get results or teach anybody anything positive.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 13:17:34

I'm not keen on the taking around classes either, it was unnecessary, imo. However...

It's not ideal that your son broke the branch, but it wasn't deliberate and swinging from a tree branch isn't bad behaviour.

FakePlasticLobsters, have you actually read the thread? It has been said repeatedly that swinging on trees is absolutely fine UNLESS it is on school property and the children have been told not to.

Fairenuff Sun 17-Feb-13 13:20:40

swinging from a tree branch isn't bad behaviour

Doesn't that rather depend on who the tree belongs to and whether or not you have permission to swing on it.

Driving a car isn't bad behaviour but that doesn't mean I can take my neighbours vehicle for a spin does it.

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 13:30:50

TheOriginalLadyFT yes he was asked not to do this several times apparently - it is earlier in the thread. Therefore he was misbehaving.

I said that comparing schools is pointless (not your opinion) which it obviously is - what one school allows another may well not. The school you describe sounds lovely but it is not the OP's son's school is it?

I am utterly amazed that so many people on here cannot see that this child has misbehaved!! Do you allow your children to break off bits of trees in town centres, neighbour's gardens etc? What you let your children do at home is up to you but schools do tend to have rules which are for the good of all who attend.

What if he had cracked his head open as he and the branch fell...yes, the OP would be on here complaining about the school....

Salmotrutta Sun 17-Feb-13 13:32:58

Oh dear.

Slapping teachers? Giving them what for?

No wonder there are quite a few defiant and unruly youngsters who have ended up in my classes who are so entitled by the time they reach secondary that we can barely get them to listen, far less behave.

How about getting the other side of the story from the teacher OP then take it from there?

If she did "parade" him round the school, then that's not on, but maybe it was a visit to a couple of classrooms to convey a point about damage and danger?

FakePlasticLobsters Sun 17-Feb-13 13:34:39

Yes Feenie, I've read the thread and seen all the comments, including the ones that only say it's "not normal" and is "completely unacceptable" with no mention of the school rules or anything else. Just that swinging from trees is not a normal, acceptable thing for a child to do.

SirBoobAlot Sun 17-Feb-13 13:38:26

He damaged school property. Would you be as excusing if it had been something inside the school that he had been playing on? If you want to teach your kids its fine to climb trees etc, then also teach them to respect the trees by not breaking them, and to remember that trees on private property - like a school - come with rules.

Her reaction was OTT, if what you are saying actually happened, though I must say seeing as you are readily excusing him from any responsibility, I'm thinking that you're over selling what happened too.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 13:48:17

Just that swinging from trees is not a normal, acceptable thing for a child to do.

No one said that. Just that it wasn't acceptable if they had been asked not to! Suggest you read more carefully.

OverReactionMuch Sun 17-Feb-13 13:54:46

Bloody hell. Whole bunch of crazies on here, just as crazy as the teacher!

How can a 5 year old swinging on a tree branch be compared to chucking stuff around a school toilet and causing massive damage? Wlllfully damaging school property, a tree branch, really? It could have been that it was dead anyway or it came off because others had been swinging on it. The teacher did NOT say DS had been ever told not to do it before this.

Excusing bad behaviour? If it had been 'bad' behaviour, I would not excuse it and I already stated I was fine with her telling him off just not making him into a terrible tree mutilator in front of all the other DCs.

How does anyone on here know what my attitude is when I am letting off steam on an internet forum when I am actually quite mild mannered in RL? The SN reference was due to the teacher being aware that I was concerned that he difficulties and was having problems settling down. She did not need to humiliate a little boy like that. She went too far.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 13:57:34

The teacher did NOT say DS had been ever told not to do it before this.

It's obvious that he had been - schools do not have secret rules, you know.

Bloody hell. Whole bunch of crazies on here, just as crazy as the teacher!

You sound lovely. Really mild-mannered, yes. hmm

FakePlasticLobsters Sun 17-Feb-13 13:57:41

People have said it Feenie, and I don't need to read the thread more carefully, but perhaps you should. Other people besides me have also commented on the "not normal" comments and said they disagree and that it is perfectly normal.

For example, one of the very first comments on the thread: "No it's not "normal boy behaviour" - it's completely unacceptable."

Several people have picked up on that one and disagreed.

I'm not advocating breaking school rules, but I do think it's wrong to suggest that climbing trees is not a normal thing for children to do, even if in this case it may be against the school rules.

And I think it's wrong that a teacher would use humiliation as a learning tool. In my book, that's a bad teacher, regardless of what the school rules say or don't say about climbing trees on school grounds.

Euphemia Sun 17-Feb-13 14:00:54

How can a 5 year old swinging on a tree branch be compared to chucking stuff around a school toilet?

It's natural, fun behaviour which isn't appropriate in school, because it's potentially dangerous and could damage someone else's property.

At home, I'd have no problem with DD and her friends chucking water at each other for a laugh, or climbing the trees in the garden, but that's different to what I'd allow in school.

Salmotrutta Sun 17-Feb-13 14:01:58

Ok,I admit it.

I am crazy.

I am a teacher.

In fact, that makes me A Crazy Teacher.

Do I win?

5madthings Sun 17-Feb-13 14:03:46

He is five, it may be a rule but children dont reme,Ber the rules all the time. If he has never swung on the tree branch before he won't have been told off and may not even be aware that its a rule. Eben if he was aware five year olds don't remember every rule all the time, sometimes they forget, or get carried away playing.

Yes he should have been told off but no he shouldn't have been shown round the school and paraded as an example.

Tree branch could have been swung on by others, or as already been dead/damaged.

Salmotrutta Sun 17-Feb-13 14:04:15

It's sometimes normal behaviour for 5 year olds to call each other "poopy head".

But probably best to discourage it all the same.

5madthings Sun 17-Feb-13 14:05:50

Yes discourage and tell off but if he was taken around each class and reprimanded as the op describes that is not OK.

Salmotrutta Sun 17-Feb-13 14:07:30

Oh, I agree. I posted earlier if she paraded him then that was not on.

amillionyears Sun 17-Feb-13 14:11:45

Until this thread, I had not thought of trees as being owned by anybody [unless in planted woods].
But now I realise [and having googled] that trees are owned by whoever owns the property that they are on.
In this case, the school.
So the school does indeed own the school trees.

So the ops son did break school property.

I think all other points have been covered by others!

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 14:12:05

For example, one of the very first comments on the thread: "No it's not "normal boy behaviour" - it's completely unacceptable."

But same point has been clarified, over and over again, to make clear that it was meant if they had been told not to, which they obviously had. This point has been made repeatedly.

Other people besides me have also commented on the "not normal" comments and said they disagree and that it is perfectly normal.

Yeah - they didn't read properly either. wink

FakePlasticLobsters Sun 17-Feb-13 14:17:29

Feenie - it was not said, anywhere in that post, that they meant if the boy had been told not to.

How is not reading something that is not there in the post to read not reading it properly?

FakePlasticLobsters Sun 17-Feb-13 14:31:37

Also Feenie, when you first quoted me, I hadn't actually said that anyone on here had called it bad behaviour, I was more referring to the teachers reaction to his swinging on the tree and the way she dealt with it.

So quite why I'm getting bogged down in yet another MN picky-snit about who said what and who didn't read it properly, I don't know.

But regardless of whatever else has been said, not said or implied on this thread by anyone else, my take on it is this:

It is normal for many children to want to climb trees.

It is not acceptable for them to break school rules.

It is understandable but still not acceptable if they sometimes still do break rules like this one, especially if they have been allowed to climb trees elsewhere or joined other children playing games like this at school before they are spotted, reminded of the rules and told to stop.

It is a bad teacher who will humiliate a child in such a way.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 14:32:08

It was clarified, several times, in several posts later.

<yawn>

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 14:33:26

But, fwiw, I agree with all four of your points.

ComposHat Sun 17-Feb-13 14:44:35

undiagnosed SN is my mother's gut instinct

my gut instinct based on what the op has written is that he is avying like a badly behaved little shite as he doesn't have appropriate boundries in place and ia mother excusing/approving of his behaviour at every turn.

When I worked at social services we had endless parents who had used Dr Google to diagnose ADHD/Aspergers in their children in their out of control teenagers, rather than examining their own parenting. When a proper diagnosis was sought they invariably came back as failing to meet the criteria.

FakePlasticLobsters Sun 17-Feb-13 14:44:43

Thank you. I'm fairly sure I made all four of them in my first post, albeit not quite so boldly, but why say in one post what you can argue about in five? wink

Euphemia Sun 17-Feb-13 14:45:12

For example, one of the very first comments on the thread: "No it's not "normal boy behaviour" - it's completely unacceptable."

I said that, and I should have added to the end of the sentence at school. Obviously I didn't mean anywhere. hmm

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 14:45:35

grin

Kirk1 Sun 17-Feb-13 14:46:03

I'm confused. Feenie how do you know OP's DC's school rules, are you the teacher in question? From my reading,
*lots of children were swinging on a low branch.
*OP's DS was the unlucky child who was swinging when the branch gave up.
*DS was then taken around the school with the broken branch in tow. This seems to be the bit that's upsetting OP.
*Some of the responses here have been extreme "slap her, bitch, etc"
*Some others are saying there should be a punishment because the boy damaged school property. I haven't seen OP dispute that. Just that humiliation is the wrong way to go about it.

What have I missed?

DizzyHoneyBee Sun 17-Feb-13 14:47:50

Stay calm, go and see her and see what she says.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 14:48:46

Because, Kirk1:

1) Schools don't have secret rules, really they don't.
2) Although I disapprove of taking children round classrooms to make an example of their behaviour, again it is unlikely that the teacher would have done so because the child had broken a rule no one know anything about. It is clearly a Big Deal in that school - hence the teacher's overreaction.

5madthings Sun 17-Feb-13 14:50:19

composthe op says he should be told off, the school are aware there may be issues relating to son's and it had already been mentioned at his nursery.

It doesn't read as a child being allowed to behave as a little shit. Its a five yr old child, in reception so only at school for a few mths who is still learning the rules. He was playing.

Yes he should be told off which the op agreed with, what she doesn't agree with us the manner in which he was told off. And if the description is correct then I wouldn't agree with the punishment either and nor would many posters, including several who are teachers.

5madthings Sun 17-Feb-13 14:52:12

They may not have secret rules, but I bet that a child who is five and in reception is aware of ALL the rules. He hasn't been told off for swinging on the tree before and may not have been aware it was a rule, it like many five yr olds he may have forgotten.

5madthings Sun 17-Feb-13 15:00:42

My ds4 is almost five and in reception, we just got his report, there is a bit for school rules/routines and behavior with boxes food always does these things, usually does them, etc. My ds4 had the always follows class rules and routines box ticked with a comment saying 'occasionally needs reminding about appropriate play with friends' when I asked the teacher she said he is doing really well but can occasionally be a bit boisterous in the playground like many if the children. Always complied when reminded.

I can see him swinging on agree at school whilst playing, once told not to he would stop and hopefully remember not to do it again but like many four/five yr olds he may need another reminder.

This is a reception child who us learning the rules and routines at school, he isn't being a little shit he is learning.

Kirk1 Sun 17-Feb-13 15:02:49

Feenie, schools might not have "secret" rules, but not all schools sit every class of five year olds down and spell them out. Some schools have rules that "go without saying" when some children need them saying. Obviously causing damage to anything on school property is against the rules, but "not swinging on a branch that a dozen of your classmates are swinging on" is not a rule that would be obvious to a ten year old, let alone a five year old.

PessaryPam Sun 17-Feb-13 16:23:42

countrykitten PessaryPam - what a very silly remark to make.

So you don't agree? How very adult of you. I would be interested to see how many responders are either teachers or affiliated in some way to teaching.

PessaryPam Sun 17-Feb-13 16:29:45

The kid is 5 FFS how can so many of you actually be teachers, quite honestly with your zealotry you scare me. Thank God my kids are grown up and not having to deal with you types.

Maryz Sun 17-Feb-13 16:34:03

Whatever is normal and acceptable on behalf of a five year old (and opinions seem to be polarised on that), the real question is:

Is it ever acceptable for a teacher to humiliate a 5 year old by parading him around every class (presumably to be laughed at by older children) and also to carry on that humiliation into the after-school club?

I would have thought that would be extreme punishment for a 15 year old who deliberately broke a door, much less a 5 year old who broke a branch by mistake.

I think it's disgusting behaviour on behalf of the teacher.

amillionyears Sun 17-Feb-13 16:37:43

Me too, Maryz

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 16:40:41

I am a teacher as it happens but in senior school. There is nothing to be gained in attacking teachers pp, as I suspect that the op will find out tomorrow when she finds out what actually happened bears little resemblance to what she has decided happened.

5madthings Sun 17-Feb-13 16:40:57

I agree if the teacher did this I would be complaining,its not OK to humiliate a child like this.

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 16:41:43

Maryz and others - you don't actually know that this happened and neither does the OP!

Maryz Sun 17-Feb-13 16:41:57

Sorry, the older children laughing bit should have been with the after-school club bit confused.

I would be spitting pins if it was my child - not so much ds2 who is a happy-go-lucky child, but if it had happened to dd she would have been devastated and if it had happened to ds1 (who has AS) it is quite likely he would have refused to go back to school.

Maryz Sun 17-Feb-13 16:43:49

So, countrykitten, do you not believe the op? Or her other children who obviously saw it happen?

Surely it is only fair to answer threads based on the information given by the op?

5madthings Sun 17-Feb-13 16:45:24

No and no-one knows it didn't happen but the op has elder children and a friend in another class who confirmed he was brought into their classes with the branch.

The op needs to speak to the school to clarify the situation, if it happened she should complain. I would be very cross.

amillionyears Sun 17-Feb-13 16:50:52

countrykitten, so if you personally start a thread about something,basically we shouldnt believe you hmm

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Feb-13 16:53:46

Maryz

Is it ever acceptable for a teacher to humiliate a 5 year old by parading him around every class (presumably to be laughed at by older children) and also to carry on that humiliation into the after-school club?

I think that the term alledgidly really needs to be put in there somewhere

I would have thought that would be extreme punishment for a 15 year old who deliberately broke a door, much less a 5 year old who broke a branch by mistake.

A 15 yr old who delibrately broke a door would be excluded (at my school) and we don't know if this was an accident or what the OP's child did with the branch afterwards.

I think it's disgusting behaviour on behalf of the teacher.

But we don't actually know what the teacher did, and TBH no teacher would have time to take a child around the entire school.

amillionyears Sun 17-Feb-13 16:55:58

Boney, so you dont believe the op either?

NotSoNervous Sun 17-Feb-13 16:59:41

I've only read your OP.

She's completely took it too far and it was completely out of order to put your DS through that. She should have phoned you and let you deal with it at home not drag him round and humiliate hm like that

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 17:09:34

Thank God my kids are grown up and not having to deal with you types.

I think we can all agree there. wink

If the OP is so enraged about this, I hope she's not considering taking her child back to the school. After all, if the teacher has humiliated the child, it would be pretty cruel to make them stay at such a substandard school with draconian punishments as this is.

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 17:14:24

Not sure what I have said here to get people's knickers in a twist. The OP does not know what happened and that is why she is going in to school isn't it?

It's not a case of my disbelieving her - more a case of wait and find out the actual facts of the matter from another adult not as reported via a five year old who is in trouble at school and knows that his mum will charge in and defend him because she has a thing about teachers

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 17:17:25

And the description of the teacher by the OP as 'fucking loopy' kind of tells you all that you need to know about the OP's attitude doesn't it? I am sure that the teacher in question will handle her skilfully and defuse the situation - we get quite good at that as teachers - despite the OP whipping herself up in to a rage over the weekend.

Salmotrutta Sun 17-Feb-13 17:22:22

Actual facts?

What, like indisputable ones? From objective witnesses?

I wonder what the outcome would be?

MissAnnersley Sun 17-Feb-13 17:23:31

I don't disbelieve the OP. I've just advised a bit of caution when going into the school.

Surely it is best to hear both sides of a story? Just common sense really.

Jux Sun 17-Feb-13 17:23:42

I wonder if the school were aware that the branch was unsafe, and had specifically warned the children against it as it was likely to break and could hurt a child badly?

It seems that if a few kids are habitually swinging on it (sounds like it was something the children - not specifically yours, and not just yours), it should either have been lopped before now, or the tree should have been fenced off.

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 17:24:46

Ah - bingo! It was all the school's fault after all!

FFS.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Feb-13 17:27:47

amillionyears
"Boney, so you dont believe the op either?"

I believe parts of the OP's post, I think that the drip feed has weakened her arguement and her attitude towards the school/teacher is poor.

amillionyears Sun 17-Feb-13 17:28:20

I agree that some posters do not post very well at the beginning of a thread, and can get some peoples' backs up.

But I have also learnt on MN, as in life, that that does not necessarily mean that they are not right.

Jux Sun 17-Feb-13 17:28:35

grin countrykitten. Am I doing AIBU wrong? I don't come here often.....

Maryz Sun 17-Feb-13 17:36:06

How come everyone is assuming the op has made it up?

Surely most posts on here are taken at face value?

He was certainly taken, with the branch, to more than one class and to the after-school club, unless you believe the op, her ds, her dd and her other ds, all of whom witnessed it.

If we are going to assume that every op on mumsnet is telling a pack of lies, what's the point in any threads at all confused.

And if the teacher did all that she is fucking loopy. The fact that all of you absolutely don't believe it must mean that it is unacceptable, no?

MissAnnersley Sun 17-Feb-13 17:45:09

I am not assuming the OP made it up but this didn't happen to her, it happened to her child.

If it happened exactly as it was described then it is unacceptable but the OP won't know until she goes into the school.

I cannot be the only person to have heard a pretty hair raising story from their DC only to find out it didn't happen the way it was described?

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 17:52:12

MissAnnersley a voice of reason and balance.

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 17:55:04

And fwiw I can't see where any poster has said that they don't believe the OP - just advise caution and not to go in to school with an aggressive and confrontational attitude.

If it should transpire that the teacher has acted inappropriately THEN is the time to get annoyed and want answers.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Feb-13 17:57:12

I am more than happy to be wrong.

Kirk1 Sun 17-Feb-13 17:57:13

Countrykitten, I'm sure you are a lovely teacher, but you surely know not everyone in teaching ought to be there? The fact that this teacher used the phrase "something dreadful" to describe an unfortunate but fairly minor incident rings alarm bells for me. Despite OP coming across as defensive and frankly rude (sorry OP, but you do) I don't see any reason to call her an outright liar.

OP in your position I would be frothing too. It's easy to say what you're really thinking on an Internet forum! I think your best attack would be a speech something along the lines of - I don't want to take the word of children at face value, but I have had from more than one source that you marched DS around the whole school to tell everyone how naughty he was. I can't believe that you would do such a dreadful thing so I am coming to you for your side of it. - This puts her in the position of having to own up to something you have already suggested is unreasonable behaviour from her and coming up with a way to justify herself. Or give a reasonable explanation which may be a course of action that was measured and proportionate after all. Keep an open mindwink

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 18:01:26

kirk1 I have not called her a liar! Where has that come from?

And yes, I am a lovely teacher! grin

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 18:03:02

BTW - not being rude but I don't understand your first sentence fully...I got the first bit obviously....!

WhatKindofFool Sun 17-Feb-13 18:09:09

I think that I order to resolve this matter the OP, the mother, the son,the teacher and the head should discuss it with the help of Jeremy Kyle. That will sort it.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 18:16:57

With MrsRajeshKoothrappali in the audience grin

amillionyears Sun 17-Feb-13 18:25:12

countrykitten "Maryz and others you dont actually know this happened and neither does the op"

That is where it looked like you were saying that the op may be lying

But perhaps you meant it as in, the information the op received from her dc may be incorrect.

But the teacher did ring her up, and seems to have confirmed the afterschool club bit at least.

Fairenuff Sun 17-Feb-13 18:28:59

The fact that all of you absolutely don't believe it must mean that it is unacceptable, no?

Maryz I would agree with your statement here.

If it did happen in exactly the way the OP describes, (...paraded him around all the KS1 classes with the offending branch lecturing the other DC on how naughty my DC was and what a terrible thing he did) then yes, of course it's unacceptable.

Or, if the teacher was supervising the child at the time and said to him something like, 'lets go and remind the other children that it's not safe to swing on the trees, it's lucky you weren't hurt' then it's a different matter.

OP, when did this happen, btw, were you not on half term last week, or next week. I know they seem to be a bit different at the moment. Or perhaps you're not in the UK?

Pagwatch Sun 17-Feb-13 18:30:18

I do not believe the OP made it up.
I do however have considerable experience of listening to very detailed descriptions of events from children right up to years 6 and 7, which have turned out t be a mixture of imagination, minimising and wish fulfilment.

I listened to a gaggle of year 5s describe in great detail a disagreement between two parents two weeks ago which ended in air pulling and some pushing and shoving.I was quite excited. Sadly it was actually a bit of shouting yet they remain convinced...

I also think the OP is quite determined to see her child as a victim and the teacher as 'loopy'. I am not sure life is ever quite so straightforward which is why one tends to try and find out before wading in..

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 17-Feb-13 18:38:13

I am quite sure that the truth is somewhere between a branch breaking and a Teacher humiliating a pupil.

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 19:28:50

We are on half term this week. grin

Kirk1 Sun 17-Feb-13 20:23:38

Countrykitten I didn't mean to imply that anyone had accused the OP of lying, I'm sorry it came out that wayblush My badly phrased first sentence was basically that not all teachers are good teachers. I've known some stinkers, and some years ago the HT of a local high school nearly managed to cause a mutiny thanks to badly managing a minor disciplinary matter - so you can even have senior staff that make horrendous mistakes. I think he ended up emigrating to South America. I'm hoping it will turn out to be a huge misunderstanding but I'm not ruling out the teacher being a bit loopy.

Oh and I did mean the first thing, I wasn't being sarcastic. Just to be clearwink

Kirk1 Sun 17-Feb-13 20:25:49

Grr, and well done anyone who can read that with lack of paragraphs. I'm typing on my phone while trying to bath excited children.

Yfronts Sun 17-Feb-13 20:28:57

Have a meeting with the head. The teacher has really gone to town humiliating your son when in fact a more normal punishment and quiet words would have been appropriate.

Redbindy Sun 17-Feb-13 20:32:34

DS would obviously never lie. Let's all have a pop at the teacher.

socharlottet Sun 17-Feb-13 21:05:12

Climbing trees is fine when it is on your watch , but it is very understandable that schools do not want to open themselves up to the possibility of being sued.You all seem to be talking as though falling out of a tree will result in nothing worse than a bump, at worse a broken arm.The child could fall awkwardly and break their neck, bang their head resulting in paralysis brain damage or death.

Maryz Sun 17-Feb-13 21:11:50

I'm not saying children never lie hmm. But in this case there is the fact that her older children saw the child being taken (with the branch) from class to class and the fact that the branch was actually shown to her at the after-school club, with the message that he had broken it.

So it seems there is at least some truth in this.

And if there is any truth in it, I think it's appalling - it is humiliating for a small child to be taken into a different classroom where the children are told he has been naughty.

countrykitten Sun 17-Feb-13 21:18:00

I agree fully with kirk1 that some teachers can be appalling - I have met a few. I hope that this turns out not to be the case and that it is more of a misunderstanding which means that things can be sorted out quickly.

Am a little confused though - if the OP's son was in school last week then they will be on half term this week so going in tomorrow might not be much use!

OverReactionMuch Sun 17-Feb-13 22:47:02

countrykitten you're right there. I'll probably be calmer NEXT Monday.

Can I just say again - HE DID NOT CLIMB THE TREE! He climbed a few today though. No branches broken thankfully.

My DD (10) is quite capable of accurately relating events and she related what her friends said and had no reason to lie. DD also said that the teacher was still very cross when she brought DS into the afterschool club with the branch and as I remember the staff were very hmm when they showed me it as she insisted they did. Did she expect me to glue it back on I wonder? Now I even think just the telephone call to me was OTT, never mind relating his 'crime' and then parading the evidence to the the classes

I don't make any excuses for my DCs behaviour. If they are badly behaved, I expect them to take the consequences but I don't see this as 'bad' behaviour. Now if he'd nicked the caretakers chainsaw, decapitated all the trees and used them as swords to attack the others DCs with it then my view would be obviously be different hmm.

Regarding my poor attitude towards the teacher - FFS I can think she is a loopy bitch in the confines of my own mind and an anonymous internet forum. I have not said it to her face yet. I can think anything I bloody well like, it's my reaction to her face that matters and if she's on here, meh, you are loopy.

Feenie Sun 17-Feb-13 22:54:17

Some others are saying there should be a punishment because the boy damaged school property. I haven't seen OP dispute that.

There you go, Kirk1. She doesn't 'see this as bad behaviour'.

amillionyears Sun 17-Feb-13 22:59:09

Will you be telling your son not to do it again?

Lottikins Mon 18-Feb-13 08:25:23

The thing is ripping a sizeable branch off a tree can ruin it's shape, and , mean it is always skewiff, even in an older tree can take many years to look normal again.I would be furious if some child ripped a branch off a tree in my garden when they had been not to swing on them and ignored that instruction.

I am guessing there is a strong school rule about not swinging on trees which your DS flouted. I think your comment about how difficult he has found it to settle into school , is code for he has been a right PITA!!

Finally, sometimes trees are planted to commemorate special events or in memory of someone.If this is the case the teacher's upset is more understandable.

BoneyBackJefferson Mon 18-Feb-13 09:20:28

OP, you have 11 years (ish) of the school system to go. If you keep this up you will be burnt out very quickly.

Euphemia Mon 25-Feb-13 17:58:50

Any update, now half-term is over?

cory Mon 25-Feb-13 18:02:44

If the school is anything like the ones my dc have attended, the children will have been told that they must not climb trees or swing from branches.

If the child has been told this, he has been disobedient and should be told off. If not, then he should not be told, merely told not to do it again.

holidaysarenice Mon 25-Feb-13 20:37:05

I hope you took her to every class to apologise to him today.
A broken tree branch - storm in a tea cup springs to mind.

Euphemia Thu 28-Feb-13 17:24:39

Drums fingers ...

countrykitten Thu 28-Feb-13 18:20:15

Thinking that the OP went in like a ship in full sail and then got all deflated as she realised the truth of what really happened.

Euphemia Thu 28-Feb-13 18:46:13

Yep, reckon so.

Happymum22 Thu 28-Feb-13 19:35:24

Sounds like a big over reaction.
How big was the branch?!

Typical 5 year old behavior. Yes it was probably a bit unsafe but not that unsafe that he wasn't injured as it broke.

Are you sure he didn't pull it deliberately (not trying to say that harshly, just checking- and btw its exactly kind of thing my innoncent DS would have done!)?

Had he been told not to do it?

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