To be pissed off with parents who believe all rules should be bent for their little darlings?

(218 Posts)
IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 21:07:45

I am a teacher. In the last few weeks I have been told that some children in my school are allergic to their school uniform, suffer with extreme cold and so need to wear coats in class, have to keep jewellery on because it is sentimental, should be allowed to use staffroom facilities to microwave their own lunch....don't even start me on phones.

DH works with much older DCs - adults, essentially - and has put up with a whole range of shite from parents recently too, making excuses for why their (fully grown) offspring should take precedence over the needs of every one else.

Of the last 20 tales we have been told between us, I reckon 1 is true, 1 is half true and the rest are absolute bollocks.

Either front up and be honest about trying to bend the rules, or just fucking accept it.

youmaycallmeSSP Fri 15-Feb-13 21:10:44

YANBU. It's never going to change though so you may as well laugh about it.

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:11:14

It is odd isn't it? When i was at school my parents just followed the rules and never questioned anything the school said. Now it seems some parents just can't follow any rules and make it their sole purpose in life to object to them all and be the exception.

ceebie Fri 15-Feb-13 21:12:16

But my DC are absolute DARLINGS and everyone else should recognise this and pander to their every whim, surely????? Don't get why you wouldn't shock. YABU

GrowSomeCress Fri 15-Feb-13 21:12:30

YANBU and I think it's a modern thing - parents (rightly) used to side with teachers

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:12:39

Love the school uniform allergy. hmm

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:13:33

Exactly Grow. Teachers can't rely on the parents to back them up any more.

chandellina Fri 15-Feb-13 21:14:04

Yanbu, rules are meant to be followed. It's annoying.

MidniteScribbler Fri 15-Feb-13 21:18:27

Love the school uniform allergy

I was allergic to mine. Pure wool blazer for winter, and I'm allergic to wool.

My mother still made me wear it because school rules said that I had to. I had to wear a school sweater under it as well so stop it touching my skin.

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:19:34

sad Midnite I never thought of the blazer. Sorry. DS1's is man made fibre.

OHforDUCKScake Fri 15-Feb-13 21:21:53

Allergic to the uniform? Quite possible.

Microwaving food in the staff room. Genius. grin

Startail Fri 15-Feb-13 21:23:49

No we just broke the rules and didn't tell are oarents about it.

My parents were far stricter than school.

TeWiSavesTheDay Fri 15-Feb-13 21:23:53

My friend was allergic to her polyester jumper. She went very red and couldn't stop scratching the first day she wore it to school so easy to believe!

There were also parents like this when I was at school. I particularly remember the girl who was 'unfairly' not chosen to be a prefect and was added onto the list at the last minute. fuck knows what her parents said to change that

YouOldSlag Fri 15-Feb-13 21:26:34

YANBU. It teaches kids that rules can be ignored, that they are more important than everyone else, and then they grow up with a huge sense of entitlement.

TeWiSavesTheDay Fri 15-Feb-13 21:26:46

While I'm on the topic, age restrictions apply to all children - not just everyone else's.

I'm talking to you people who ignore the age signs at soft play and limply say "careful darling" while they trample my under 5s.

CheerfulYank Fri 15-Feb-13 21:27:53

It's terrible. I manage a cinema and the teens who work there are ridiculous. Whine of being tired after working 45 minutes in a row, don't care if things look like shit as long as they can do it the easy way,etc, etc. It drives me mad. They're just so babied. Their parents are full of excuses for why they can't get there on time.

I realize that's not the same thing, but it's all part of a wider problem IMO.

drmummmsy Fri 15-Feb-13 21:27:56

I think this sort of things stems from the shift in attitudes stated on this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1682170-To-think-that-perceptions-of-child-abuse-have-changed-a-lot-over-the-years

where things like the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, The Children's Act have filtered down to everyday language and have influenced (rightly or wrongly) the way this generation perceives their children and the way that they should be treated by schools?

maybe?

<don't attack me!>

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:28:26

Yes and 'don't park on the verges/zig zags outside school' being put on the weekly newsletter only applies to me by the look of things. sad

YouOldSlag Fri 15-Feb-13 21:28:44

TeWi- I hate that too. I always chuck them out. I'm ruthless. I say to the hulking lunatic 8 year olds "Are you four? No? then you musn't play here"

I even say it to my own six year old.

I hate it when people ignore big signs because they feel it doesn't apply.

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:30:46

Yes like the 'coaches only' bay painted in three feet high yellow letters You. but the parents park there regardless and it covers the letters up. Genius. grin

scottishmummy Fri 15-Feb-13 21:30:53

heat dinner in staff room,that's priceless.complete brass neck

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:31:57

Dread to think what they want to heat up sm. sad

Bluestocking Fri 15-Feb-13 21:37:36

Don't start me. I work at a university and you would not believe some of the absolute world-class bollocks I have to endure from parents. Parents of ADULTS.

GrowSomeCress Fri 15-Feb-13 21:39:49

Really bluestocking? Do they actually phone up? What about? Grades or something? confused

BlatantLies Fri 15-Feb-13 21:40:06

Ok, I admit it, blush

I once asked that my son be exempt from wearing full facial makeup for the compulsory school play. He has a lovely Mediterranean complexion and I didnt think he needed foundation as well as blusher, lipstick, eyeliner and eye shadow. (yes really shock ). I said i was concerned that he would have an allergy to it well, it is possible

The teacher had obviously met my kind before and refused point blank. I gave in gracefully and slunk away.... sad

He looked lovely in the play even if he did look like Julian Clary on a night out.

aldiwhore Fri 15-Feb-13 21:41:17

Maybe in this modern world it's the rules that need changing?

Some are absolutely valid and logical, some are utterly pointless.

I work in a Uni and yes, when the parents ring up asking for timetables etc, and I have to say no to them, and they give me grief for it I do tire of explaining that it is the student's responsibility to find these on the website as part of their course, and no, unless the student is so ill they can't come to the phone, I cannot divulge private student details to mummy... they are other rules that make you wonder what purpose the serve other than to be just rules.

YAprobablyNBU in the vast majority of cases. YAthereforeprobablyBU in a few cases.

Remotecontrolduck Fri 15-Feb-13 21:41:19

Heat dinner in the staff room and coat on in class is taking the piss, allergic to school uniform however is believable. Sometimes rules need to be challenged as they're unreasonable. If you are allergic to the uniform you shouldn't have to suffer in silence! (Though there's every chance that's just the excuse because the child didn't fancy wearing it)

Most of the teenagers/children I know are alright, not entitled or brattish at all. Sounds like these parents are a nightmare though.

IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 21:44:27

bluestocking I think I would believe it....

Bluestocking Fri 15-Feb-13 21:44:37

I'm not a member of teaching faculty, so I don't get calls about grades, but I know that parents do ring up about marks and exams. What I mainly get is parents wanting to intervene in admin matters that their student offspring should be sorting out for themselves. I have been thinking about writing a guide for the parents of students about how to conduct themselves.

Is it really cold in class? ONly asking because I once had a form room which was previously the mortuary of hte hospital the school was on the site of. It was beyond cold. Your breath fogged up! They tried being strict about uniform in it but eventually gave up when we couldn't write neatly because our hands were too cold grin

Better wearing a coat and concetrating than neat and freezing and distracted surely?

IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 21:46:51

Bluestocking, are you my husband?

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:48:32

Every school I have ever set foot in has been boiling hot. grin

At DS1's old school the lockers were removed due to lack of space so they didn't wear coats at all.

chickensarmpit Fri 15-Feb-13 21:50:12

My 10 year old dd has to use the teachers loo's. she's just started her periods and gets herself into a terrible mess. It was the teachers idea to avoid embarrassment for my dd. allergic to uniforms? That's a new one on me.

MammaTJ Fri 15-Feb-13 21:50:21

YANBU but my DD has gone in to school and told the teacher she needs to wear headphones when she needs to concentrate. A genuine reason and the OT suggested it. The teacher poo pooed it and the consultant has now confirmed the need for it. I will seem like a pushy parent for insisting now. Actually, do I give a shit what a person who cannot make eye contact with me thinks?

herladyship Fri 15-Feb-13 21:50:44

YANBU for 99%

BUT school shirts commonly contain several chemical nasties in the collar!!

dd has has sore/bleeding eczema on her neck caused by school shirts confused

I've had to source eczema friendly versions online for £19 EACH blush

SirBoobAlot Fri 15-Feb-13 21:51:32

Heating dinner in the staff room is genius.

However... I suffer from severe anxiety and was bullied at school. One of the things the bullies used to do was hold my arms down and cut my wrists. Having bare wrists made me horrifically anxious and vulnerable, and it is only in recent years that I have been able to cope without them being covered by sweat bands / bangles. It was against the school rules, it was the only way I could get through the day though. I tried explaining why I needed to wear them, got no sympathy. So I broke the rules, daily, and argued the toss each time I was called on it.

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound Fri 15-Feb-13 21:51:47

Well dd (8) has some issues regulating her body temperature so on cold days has to wear a coat inside.

BlatantLies Fri 15-Feb-13 21:53:22

We lived in a country where the daytime temperatures could easily be in the high 30's. The DC's were required to wear their blazers all the time while some of the teachers would be wearing spaghetti strap tops. hmm

I never said anything though.

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 21:55:12

Also at DS's old school they were told when it was cold enough to wear a jumper. No wearing it before that. I thought it was a bit odd but they were the rules.

Bluestocking Fri 15-Feb-13 21:56:00

Maybe I am, IAmLouisWalsh. Is he thinking of writing a book? We could collaborate.

IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 21:57:10

If there is a genuine case, then obviously I am sympathetic. But uniform allergy does not develop suddenly overnight only to be cured by wearing an Adidas top. And every classroom is not freezing.

We are actually an incredibly reasonable school. Fuck knows how they would cope elsewhere!

BimbaBirba Fri 15-Feb-13 21:59:40

YABU
You're posting on MN because you know it's full of teachers like you and people are going to agree with you.
Let me tell you, it's stupid to follow the rules blindly and not allow for exceptions. For example my DS has bone pain that lasts for days when he's made to sit on the floor rather than on a chair at school, for example in assembly. I have asked his teacher to let him sit on a chair not because he's a PFB but rather because the act of bending the rule would mean that he doesn't have to suffer for days. Guess what, the teacher fobbed me off like you would have. Children are individuals with personal and differing needs. It's insensitive to label their needs as a nuisance like you do.
Change jobs if this is how you feel.

sherbetpips Fri 15-Feb-13 22:00:39

£19 for a school shirt? Exactly the point the OP is making.
It is worrying to think of how are dc's will cope in the future whilst we all pander to them. Whilst I would love to pretend I don't I am as prone to the hysteria as the next parent.

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 22:01:33

Bimba the teacher shouldn't have fobbed you off. Yours is obviously a genuine case. That is not what Louis is talking about.

Bloody hell Bimba.

Get a Drs note to back your case. If its genuine then the OP isn't having a go, made up ones (which she's on about) are ridiculous.

Wind your neck in love

dayshiftdoris Fri 15-Feb-13 22:06:12

Its hard because I have had to ask for my child to be 'pandered' to almost the whole of his school life... most of it has been a suggestion on my part to issues that school have brought to me and then they have said no even when I have offered to do the leg work...

I am pretty sure that it's been talked about in the staff room because of my 'ridiculous' requests...

These days I don't take it to heart: you see I learnt to put my requests in writing so that I could slam the bastard piece paper down in front of useless school when they brought it up as their idea months down the line... usually because he was risking exclusion again or was anxious to the point of chewing his arms.

You want a school that doesnt want to be inclusive then create a dictatorship that does not allow for individual difference to be understood. I am not talking about pandering for no reason but already in your OP you have referred to being allergic to a school uniform as being 'pandering', laughable as another poster said yet more than one reply has indicated that this is very much the truth for some children.

We are on are 3rd pair of shoes since Dec due to my ds being absolutely unable to tolerate them - I am not willing to buy a fourth pair and I have already told school that if this pair are the same then I will be sending him in black trainers or plimsols.

nice to know I'll be accused of 'pandering' by teachers who have NO idea of what our lives are like nor have the empathy to attempt to try and understand.

There will always be parents that take the mick but the danger comes when you believe us all to be the same

IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 22:06:42

bimba you have clearly misread me. No way would I fob you off. However, if you were to tell me that your son's pain also meant I should make him a brew first thing in the morning I would tell you to get knotted.

IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 22:08:30

As I have said, allergy to uniform is believable. Sudden allergy to any clothes costing less than £50 and bearing a designer label is not.

sherbetpips Fri 15-Feb-13 22:08:43

bimbabirba out of interest the bone pain is a chronic condition exacerbated by unsupported sitting? How Long do they make them sit that way? I think after infants they don't really do the cross legged on the floor thing do they? I suppose it depends on the school. Get a note from the docs then neither he or you has to suffer and the teacher should be more understanding.

herladyship Fri 15-Feb-13 22:09:57

Sherbetpips

Do fuck off

If your dc had eczema, aggravated by school shirts to the point of bleeding.. I HOPE you would be a decent enough parent to take some action to alleviate their suffering confused

if that is 'pandering' I will gladly be a 'panderer'

IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 22:10:11

And are you still going to be dealing with this for your DCs when they are 21? Cause that is what DH puts up with.

BimbaBirba Fri 15-Feb-13 22:11:10

My point is, how do you know who's genuine and how's not if you take the attitude that parents are just pathetic like that?

BimbaBirba Fri 15-Feb-13 22:13:36

They still make them sit like that for prolonged periods of time and he's in yr 5. Doesn't happen every day but often enough. He needs calpol and ibuprofen after that.

CheerfulYank Fri 15-Feb-13 22:13:59

Well, what possible legitimate reason could there be for needing the teacher's microwave? confused

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 22:15:08

I think that's the problem Bimba. The parents that aren't genuine making it difficult to establish who is.

Could your GP do a note to school for your DS explaining how the chair should be used?

I don't understand why parents don't get a Drs note backing up what they are saying?

It isn't difficult, if it's a genuine reason this us something I'd do straight away. It's what my parents did for me?

(reoccuring thrush because of sexual abuse - needing to go to the toilets a lot more than usual amongst other stuff)

IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 22:18:45

bimba I tend to talk to parents. And ask for medical evidence.

If there is a genuine issue, I find that most parents tell us on admission.

And if a parent tells me to fuck off then I tend to think they are a ranty twat. I can't tell them to fuck off or I would lose my job.

sherbetpips Fri 15-Feb-13 22:19:30

dayshiftdoris are the problems that you are facing psychological or physical? you mentioned anxiousness or did you mean your dc is becoming anxious due to the rashes/swelling/pain caused by the allergies.
If it is psycholigical do you feel that the schools reaction would differ if it were physical?

CloudsAndTrees Fri 15-Feb-13 22:21:39

I was wondering why parents can't get doctors letters as well. If that is impossible, then they can get written conformation of a diagnosis and then provide written information to the school about things that their children may find difficult, and things that will help or should be avoided.

Teachers are unlikely to think parents are 'pandering' if they can see what the problem is.

ivykaty44 Fri 15-Feb-13 22:22:11

when these dc go out into the world - they will have a big shock

I will say I did tell the doctor in A7E that dd1 was allergic to penicillin and he looked at me sideways and said really I hear this twenty times a day.

I explianed that if he gave it to her she would come out in hives and swell - he then explained that twenty times a day he is told by parents that there off spring or themselves are allergic - but they aren't they just dont' like the side effects of this drug.

So Op its not just you that gets these daft lies - the doc does to

herladyship Fri 15-Feb-13 22:22:20

At primary dd wore polo shirts = no problem

At secondary, moved to stiff collar blue, school shirts = skin peeling hell

School rang me, midday in September to collect her as her neck was bleeding!!

I replaced shirts, at my own expense, no complaints.. No fuss, no 'special requests' but for some people (sherbetpips) this is 'pandering'

maybe some teachers complaining about parents could advise me what the correct action should have been?? shock

Wolfiefan Fri 15-Feb-13 22:23:24

My children are the most important people in the world (to me!). I don't expect them to be exempt from rules. DS does have a medical condition. (Long and boring.) I have only asked that we are told if he gets a blow to the kidneys! I don't expect special treatment.
But then I'm a teacher. I don't want to live with pampered divas who don't believe they have any responsibility for anything, believe they are entitled to everything and rules are for the other kids.
<slopes off to the drunk thread emoticon>

confusteling Fri 15-Feb-13 22:23:36

I'm slightly worried at what's being said about uni students! I'm a student and I know a couple of uni lecturers have expected I'm being pandered to, as I get a LOT of support including a postgraduate who's employed as a 'mentor' to support me in going to class. Have also in the past had my mum phone for me when ill.. I know some requests look strange, I know an ASD lad who's allowed a cuppa during exams, but in my experience there's usually genuine reasons! It ain't much fun at 21 to need all this support.. But understanding uni staff make a huge difference smile

herladyship Fri 15-Feb-13 22:25:01

hahaha, no wonder NHS is over stretched if I asked doctor to provide a note to teacher justifying why I spent £19 OF MY OWN MONEY on a school shirt!

dayshiftdoris Fri 15-Feb-13 22:25:54

He ASD so its a sensory issue

No allergies - I was refering the example in the OP and other peoples responses.

IAmLouisWalsh...

You go by what you are told on admission....

Right that will explain why my son's needs were IGNORED for the first 2 years of his school life... I didn't know he had ASD you see so I didnt tell you...
And he didnt have extreme sensitivity to his bloody shoes until recently - wearing the tongue a bit odd one day I am told can tirgger it but I get now that I should have FORESAW these issues....

MidniteScribbler Fri 15-Feb-13 22:26:33

Bimba, it's not about the legitimate parent concerns. In your son's case, a note from the doctor and it wouldn't ever be mentioned again (at least in my school). IF there are legitimate medical conditions, special needs, or issues such as anxiety, then parents need to obtain the relevant medical documentation and approach the school directly. It's the parents who think that we're running a 5 star hotel. Some of the ones I've had:

* Little Susie likes to write in pink pen only because the other ones hurt her hands. Well find that brand in blue and black (commonly available in any grocery store) and we'll be fine. Little Susie does not NEED to write in pink pen.

* Little Mary should be allowed to change in the teachers lounge before swimming as her mummy doesn't like her to change in public changing rooms (there are ten individual cubicles that Mary can use in the change rooms, she doesn't need to go five minutes across the campus to the teachers lounge).

* Little Bobby should be able to put his lunchbox in the teachers fridge because he likes it to be cold (put a freezer brick in it FGS!).

* The best one was the parent who sent in two slices of bread, a slice of ham, and a slice of cheese with a note asking that it be toasted at lunchtime. (NO!)

Even individual "quirks" can be accommodated if the parents approach the school in the right way. I have a student that absolutely hates fruit. I mean HATES it. We have fruit time every morning. His mum approached me to discuss it, and now she sends along some cut up veges for him (which he likes) to eat at that time instead. No issue. If she'd demanded being able to send a chocolate bar or packet of crisps, then I'd have said no. But she approached me very reasonably, with a workable solution, so I didn't hesitate in saying yes.

confusteling Fri 15-Feb-13 22:26:34

I must admit though I always offer a letter of proof from my GP, overseeing psychiatrist, psychologist or disability advisor! Once I mention that they usually are pretty supportive save for the odd few who don't see disability beyond a wheelchair

I don't understand herlady, I've worked a very long day today so I might just be being thick, but did the school say anything about the shirts? I don't remember you saying that. Your child needed new shirts, you bought them. why would you need justification?

I'm on my phone so can't scroll back properly, but I don't understand why you seem so pissed about it?

dayshiftdoris Fri 15-Feb-13 22:29:33

You know what I think I might just ask his comm paed to write he can wear slippers in school -

I was going to go to the trouble of ordering very expensive wide fit (yes I am that unlucky!) black trainers in the hope to meet school half way but it seem that rather than working with schools teachers just want a get out clause...

What sort of example is THAT to set???

Herladyship - I am a parent of your caliber but it seems are efforts are pointless - we should just get drs notes

dikkertjedap Fri 15-Feb-13 22:29:55

My dd is highly allergic to polyester, most school uniforms at least contain polyester. We resorted to buying plain cotton jumpers/cotton shirts and I made the trousers myself as we couldn't find cotton trousers (although I have since found out that Marks and Spencer sells skinkind range online but not in shops).

So an allergy is not a very good reason to not comply with the school uniform imo.

In some classrooms it can indeed be very cold, but nothing stops the kids wearing thermal underwear underneath their school uniform though.

ilovesooty Fri 15-Feb-13 22:31:03

You're posting on MN because you know it's full of teachers like you and people are going to agree with you

Rubbish. MN has teacher bashers as well as posters who are teachers.

herladyship Fri 15-Feb-13 22:32:05

I'm pissed because even though dd complies 100% with uniform policy I was then accused of 'pandering' because I paid £19 for a school shirt

herladyship Fri 15-Feb-13 22:33:14

And cited as an example of 'exactly the sort of parent' OP was complaining about shock

MidniteScribbler Fri 15-Feb-13 22:35:16

herladyship, I'm pretty sure that the person that said that isn't a teacher. So your anger is pretty misguided. Did the school actually say anything to you?

Herlady

Right! Now I understand! I genuinely wasn't trying to be funny, I get you know.

It's blatently not pandering. If your child is in a uniform, it's got fuck all to do with anyone else. Pandering would be, imo, letting her wear a pink shirt because she's allergic or just doesn't want to where a white one

larks35 Fri 15-Feb-13 22:35:42

I have to admit to doubting the extent of parental excuses you claim but then maybe you work with a different demographic than I do. I teach secondary and only one parent I deal with regularly excuses her child - off school on Mondays due to attending parties on the weekend, wearing jeans due to trousers being unwashed/too small, wearing acrylic nails because (despite parentmail warnings) it was one of her birthday presents. Some other parents I speak to do seem to want to excuse their darling's laziness fatigue regarding class and homework but none of them seem to want to flout the rules for them.

When it comes to real medical issues, all teachers are notified if someone is likely to need the loo more often, need to eat at times in class, need watching, need to wear a hat/head covering, need the powerpoint to not have a white background, need to be seated close to the teacher to lip-read, need all lesson materials to be enlarged etc. Real medical needs are taken seriously in school and we do our best to meet them.

CloudsAndTrees Fri 15-Feb-13 22:36:18

Midnite - I can relate!

Last week I was told I should be able to cut up Little Isabelle's apples or pears before she has her packed lunch because those are her favourite fruits and she doesn't like them if they are not freshly cut up. This child is 8 FFS!

I've also been told that Little Tom doesn't like his peg being close to the window, so it should be moved. hmm

treas Fri 15-Feb-13 22:36:51

And are you still going to be dealing with this for your DCs when they are 21?

Well it would be nice if teachers (not all I know) actually listened to the children and didn't override their genuine concerns or brow beat them into doing something that is for the teacher's convenience and not the child's.

dyzzidi Fri 15-Feb-13 22:38:35

It's the actual outrage of some of the parents at our school who shout at you when you will not interrupt an assembly or a class to pass on a message to they're child. I always explain that I will personally seek their child out at break time and pass the message on but that is just not good enough. This is a primary where the kids aren't allowed phones so whatever he message it's not going to make a difference what time I pass on such abody go home to grandmas tonight.

My other favourite is when they ask at the office what did little one have for lunch and did they eat it all. Erm hello collect your child on time from the correct exit and ask the teacher, not me who has 450 kids in the school none of which I watch eat lunch. Aarggghhh.

BimbaBirba Fri 15-Feb-13 22:39:04

The GP found no evidence of bone disease in my son. Does that mean it's a lie? I don't see why he would make it up with me.
I'm sorry OP I still think YABU to demand written medical evidence in order to believe. A teacher shouldn't be like the DWP rejecting a DLA application unless medical evidence is submitted.

herladyship Fri 15-Feb-13 22:39:15

teachers at dd's (very strict) secondary school are actually very tolerant & kind, and seem to work (within the rules) to ensure all children are happy & comfortable smile

No complaints about therm!

Maryz Fri 15-Feb-13 22:41:09

I said this on another thread.

ds came home apoplectic with rage because they were given lunchtime detention for persistent lateness - good enough for them; they are 14, they should manage to get to school on time.

One boy refused to do it - and his parents backed him saying it was their fault he was late, because they were driving him (he had been late a dozen times, btw, it wasn't one car crash).

He got away with it because the school can't enforce detentions if the parents object shock.

sherbetpips Fri 15-Feb-13 22:43:30

herladyship may I be brave enough to ask if the new shirts are working? Are they the same style and material, are they softer on the collar and less irritating or do they look different from the mass market ones. You didn't read the rest of my post properly I too 'pander'. Be honest do you ever think when paying out that possibly the expensive shirt people are making a buck out of us?
My DS is also suffering from chronic exczema on his hands. His fingers literally crack open but I often wonder when looking at the various Expensive products that I pay out for that promise to make it better - can they solve dermatitis? Nope. Why do I buy them then? Why did you decide the the chemicals were to blame? Why did you decide that product was the solution?
Please don't tell me to f off again I am genuinely interested in why we are all doing this? Which is I suppose the root of the OP's complaint?

TeWiSavesTheDay Fri 15-Feb-13 22:43:43

How do you know your child has a bone disease if he doesn't have a diagnosis?

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 22:43:54

My brother got suspended from High School. My Dad went in to find out what happened. Agreed entirely with the decision and shook the Deputy Head's hand. grin

herladyship Fri 15-Feb-13 22:46:03

Shirts are ugly, shapeless, a nightmare to iron & overpriced... dd HATES them

However, they are 100% cotton with no chemicals in collar & have cured the problem

BimbaBirba Fri 15-Feb-13 22:47:15

I don't know that he has a bone disease because there's no evidence of anything abnormal. However lack
lack of disease or diagnosis doesn't necessarily equate to lack of pain.

sausagesandwich34 Fri 15-Feb-13 22:48:21

dd(9) was complaining about where her peg was in the cloakroom as it was in the corner near where there was a missing ceiling tile and she didn't like standing under it -could I talk to the teacher

I told her to go whistle, there were worse things in life than having a peg in the corner and she could get on with it

the following week, she came home and her pe kit was soaked through. it had been raining and I said I was surprised they had done pe in the rain rather than in the hall....

turns out the ceiling tile was missing due to a roof leak and everytime it rained her coat etc was getting wet

but I still don't pander to my dcs -oops!

Maryz Fri 15-Feb-13 22:50:24

I do think, though, that the parents of some adult children have a tough time. The day before ds1's 18th birthday I could get information about his education and medical needs. The day after I couldn't.

ds1 has Asperger's and will not talk to doctors or any of the support staff in his college.

The result of his refusal to talk to them is that he got no student grant, which would have been worth about €3,000 to him sad. And when we tried to explain to them that he wouldn't talk to them about it (he won't ask for anything, even for forms to be filled in) they said they couldn't talk to us without his permission (which he wouldn't give because he wouldn't talk to them).

[sigh]

poppypebble Fri 15-Feb-13 22:50:33

Actually, schools can enforce detentions without parental permission - they only need to provide 24 hours notice. Some SLT are too frightened of parents to do this, however.

My school offers parents the alternative of a day in isolation. Most students then complete the detention.

Shenanagins Fri 15-Feb-13 22:50:45

Then their precious little darlings go into the world of work and suddenly find that work will not listen to mummy/daddy's excuses for them.

it really is not pretty having to tell mummy that no you are not going to discuss their precious darling with you as they are not the employee.

to the parents who are doing this to their children whilst in school for non-reasons, e.g not medical related, you really are not doing your child any favours.

poppypebble Fri 15-Feb-13 22:57:19

Bimba have you had your child seen by a specialist? I'd insist on a referral. I also suffered with joint problems as a child which could not be easily diagnosed. The GP provided me with a letter stating what I could and couldn't be expected to do in school. I was provided with a chair for assemblies and didn't do some types of PE. The GP didn't need a diagnosis to provide the letter.

I'm just waiting to be old enough to have a knee replacement now.

amillionyears Fri 15-Feb-13 22:58:05

In the interests of this thread,--and my watching--, I think a poster should say whether they are a teacher or parent!

I will sit on the school fence, as my youngest has now left school.

MidniteScribbler Fri 15-Feb-13 22:58:32

Well it would be nice if teachers (not all I know) actually listened to the children and didn't override their genuine concerns or brow beat them into doing something that is for the teacher's convenience and not the child's.

I am not employed to toast sandwiches or cut up fruit. I'm there to actually, you know, TEACH. We have an extensive curriculum that I must cover within the school year, and I really don't have time to play waitress. Parents need to understand that schools are there to educate their children, not to be their parents or butlers.

We don't just make arbitary rules for the sake of it. I ask that parents send fruit to school cut up or ready to eat. It's not just to make their lives difficult.
1) It reduces waste in the classroom, and since the cleaners only come in twice a week, I don't want food waste sitting in the bins which can attract vermin.
2) I assign ten minutes for fruit time and it takes extra time out of an already packed school day while the students cut and prepare their fruit.
3) Students aren't allowed to bring knives to school for obvious reasons and to prevent them hurting themselves.
4) We have students with allergies and intolerances in our class, but the school doesn't have any food bans. Children having a small container of their own food that they eat means less chance of accidental cross contamination.

So when mummy comes in and tries to demand that little Johnny needs his fruit cut up just before he eats it, then I say no. I have very good reasons for doing so.

VictorAndBarry Fri 15-Feb-13 23:00:33

My DD has Raynaud's disease. i could quite legtimately insist she wears glves and a scarf to keep warm.

She would kill me if I did though grin

sherbetpips Fri 15-Feb-13 23:01:50

dayshiftdoris ah a far more difficult issue to tackle then. My nephews condition got worse in high school. Eating and having anyone touching him became particular issues for him but my SIL found the teachers were far more understanding in seniors.

ItsintheBag Fri 15-Feb-13 23:02:52

I worked for a letting agent.
The mother of one of the tenants rang me to complain about his gas bill and asked me what I was going to do about it,it was too high dontya know. bitch slap her son sadly wasn't an option

I would love to tell you this was the only phone call I had of that nature but it wasn't.
We were also asked to mediate when two tenants fell out with each other by another mother hmm

Maryz Fri 15-Feb-13 23:03:28

I'm a parent, amillion. And I think that children should obey the school rules. If as a parent I don't agree with them, I should campaign to change them, not encourage my children to break them.

I'm very glad I'm not a teacher.

I'm also a cub leader and am constantly amazed by what parents let their children do. For example, let them wear uggs on a hike because "she didn't want to wear her hiking boots confused".

ItsintheBag Fri 15-Feb-13 23:04:53

Sorry my point is there are some parents that pander from 0- to old age.
Nothing to be done about them

My son gets to wear his coat,but its because the heating is often on the blink in the prefab smile

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 23:05:06

I'm not a teacher. I couldn't do it. mainly because of the parents.

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 23:06:44

On residential trips you get that form to fill in about bedtime routines. I would love to see what parents write on those. grin

GrowSomeCress Fri 15-Feb-13 23:06:54

I can't believe parents do that - how embarrassing grin

GrowSomeCress Fri 15-Feb-13 23:07:36

^ not directed at the thing about bedtimes - I mean phoning up, complaining etc in general

sherbetpips Fri 15-Feb-13 23:08:55

spraklingbrook am glad to say on the last school residential we were not asked about routines. In fact he didn't even use his toothbrush so if they had asked they wouldn't have done it!

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 23:10:22

On DS1's first residential when he was 9 he wanted to take his teddy. I asked the school and they decided to put on the form that teddies were compulsory so DS1 didn't feel silly. There was even a teddy inspection. grin

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 23:11:28

Oh yes sherbert. One shower in 5 days and one brush of the teeth. Oh and one pair of pants. sad

Maryz Fri 15-Feb-13 23:13:01

We do that in cubs Sparkling - teddies are compulsory.

GrowSomeCress Fri 15-Feb-13 23:14:02

The compulsory teddies thing is such a good idea! smile

Sparklingbrook Fri 15-Feb-13 23:14:15

I think that's lovely Maryz. smile

Maryz Fri 15-Feb-13 23:15:45

Even leaders have to bring them blush

It's funny, even the older ones (10/11) rather like having them.

CloudsAndTrees Fri 15-Feb-13 23:32:59

Our school does the teddy thing as well. Its great for the children that need some kind of home comfort but who wouldnt take it without yhere being a 'rule'. I had to force ds to take his on his Y6 residential. He clearly didn't need it, but it made me feel better to know that teddy was there! blush

neverputasockinatoaster Fri 15-Feb-13 23:34:26

When DS went on a residential and cuddly toy was included on the packing list!

As a parent I hope I don't pander to my children - DS has an ASD and struggles with crowds etc - every year his teachers have given him a peg at the end of the row without my asking. I expect DS to follow the school rules. If he is struggling to follow the rule for a reason then I will go in and ask for clarifiction.... eg They insisted jumpers must be worn when the children go to church. DS cannot bear his school jumper. I told him he needed to wear it. However i did go and speak to his teacher to ask if he could put it on right at the last minute and take it off as soon as the mass was over. I explained why. His school no longer require any child to wear a jumper to mass although the church is cold and they are advised to...

As a teacher there are requests I will listen to and requests I will not. If a parent asked me if their child could sit on a chair in assembly I would ask why. If the answer was that to sit on the floor would cause them huge amounts of pain then I would have no issue. If the answer was that they didn't like sitting on the floor then then answer would be no.

I had a child in my class with several missing teeth. They could not bite the fruit if it was an apple so I cut it up for them until the teeth grew in. A child with no issues got their mum to ask if I could cut their fruit up too. I said no but added that mum was perfectly welcome to send cut up fruit in a snack box.

One winter I got my class to wear their coats in the classroom as it was bloody cold and the caretaker was feeding me bullshit about not being able to fix the heating. When that didn't work we based our data handling work on the temperature in the room over a day and displayed the graph on the wall........ -I may have also left a copy of an employment handbook open by the graph with the rules about temperature highlighted- They fixed the heating after that!

So, I am prepared to listen to reasonable requests but not to nonsense.

Maryz Fri 15-Feb-13 23:42:22

The jumper thing is interesting.

ds2 hates jumpers, but has to wear them between Halloween and St Patrick's Day due to school rules. I couldn't understand why, until I realised that the older boys were wearing shirts, no jumpers and t-shirts underneath the shirts.

Which was fine from a warmth point of view, but dodgy when you realise that the shirts had questionable logos on them shock. So the jumper made a little more sense.

ds1 on the other hand refused point blank to wear a jumper (same school). So he just lost them all the time. Admittedly he has AS, and had sensory issues, but it wasn't a battle I felt able to fight and just left him to it. Most teachers left him alone, some made it an issue, but he was happy to fight his own battles.

Now, there are some battles I am prepared to fight - dd's science teacher calling her stupid and refusing to mark her homework or answer her questions (he wants her to give his subject up) is a battle worth fighting angry

sausagesandwich34 Fri 15-Feb-13 23:53:37

I'm a brownie leader, we have rules esp for pack holiday -they don't follow them

no food and drink in their suitcase -we obvioulsy provide food and drinks -drinks are offered 6 times a day and water freely available -one child had bought 6 little boxes of tropical fruit juice because her parents were worried about her not drinking enough -and she was sleeping on the bed next to a child with a severe pineapple allergy!!!

no more than £5 spends -one had brought £30!

no electronic gadgets -complaints at 3 am, they couldn't sleep because someone's ds was beeping

oh and teddies are compulsory and usually included in at least 1 activity

we will also get complaints that toothpaste hasn't been used, pants and socks haven't been changed, hair hasn't been brushed etc

Maryz Fri 15-Feb-13 23:58:02

sausages, dd was on a brownie camp once where one child's parents decided she needed a mobile phone. She felt a bit homesick, so instead of telling a leader she decided to call her mum.

Do you know what the mum did? She didn't call the leader in charge. She called the child back. And woke up the other 9 children in the dorm. Half of whom started crying because it was 4 am and the first child was chatting to her mum and they couldn't talk to theirs.

Apparently it was chaos.

Utter, utter selfishness.

We got a complaint from a parent once that her son had come home from cubs with dirty runners grin.

Altinkum Sat 16-Feb-13 00:01:16

YABU in the uniform case, some
Children can't tolerate the roughy material on the uniform,
Currently ds neck is red raw am bleeding. Some children need more tha. 6x drinks lee day, my ds currently has double that amount, the rest yanbu, parents are at times fools x

Maryz Sat 16-Feb-13 00:12:35

But Altinkum, on a brownie camp they won't be restricted to six drinks a day, they will be given as many drinks as they want, but they will be actively encouraged at least six times a day.

I doubt any teacher has a problem with a genuine allergy - after all, an allergy is obvious to all. Or a child with sensory issues (that should be covered under SN statement).

It's the parents who think their children are too important to wear uniform, or should be allowed to have an eyebrow bar, or should be an exception to the no shaved heads/multicoloured hair rules that annoy me.

deleted203 Sat 16-Feb-13 00:13:24

On 'unreasonable' parents we had a student this week (15 yo) whose mother was picking him up at lunchtime because he had an appointment somewhere in the afternoon. He turned up to sign out with a girl from his class. Uh huh. And where is she going? No, actually, she's not going with you because her parents have not given permission for her to do so and I know nothing about it.

Mother of boy came in and began arguing with me that I was being completely unreasonable in not letting his girlfriend come with them for the afternoon confused. Mother said, 'But I told him he could bring his gf!'...

Well yeah...possibly you did. And maybe it is ok with you. But I don't have any confirmation from this girls parents that they have requested permission for her to be out of school for the afternoon or given their consent! Mother just could not get her head round the fact that I can't just let pupils swan off with another parent because they feel like it! Gf meanwhile kept reassuring me, 'Yeah - it's ok, Miss. I know my Dad won't mind,' as though that made any difference! 'No, I haven't actually told them, but they won't be worried when I don't come home on the school bus - honestly!'.

(Mother ended up shouting at me that I was a fucking Nazi by the way confused)

dayshiftdoris Sat 16-Feb-13 00:44:30

neverputasockinatoaster

I wish my son had gone to your child's school reception to yr3...

Instead when I asked if he could have support in organising his things (even offering to do the visual checklist at home but would need adult support initially) I was told he had to learn... We lost £200+ of uniform and coats in less than a year.

And that was POST DIAGNOSIS! You can imagine the hell we went through prior to diagnosis when I had 'no official reason to request support.

This school his teacher has basically become his mother at school and we have survived with only a lost pair of plimsols (and not unconvinced that he hasn't done away with them himself because of his sensory issue with shoes ATM!)

I don't pander and I won't run to doctors for notes but sick of teachers with attitudes of 'parents are all the same'

ilovesooty Sat 16-Feb-13 00:46:17

Mother ended up shouting at me that I was a fucking Nazi by the way

I sincerely hope she's been banned from the school premises.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 16-Feb-13 01:06:22

Yanbu.

But it can often be quite hard to work out and identify the genuine reasons and legit rule changes from the ones that are not needed because sometimes to a person who has little experance or knowledge about perticular issues something genuine may be perceived as a parent being stupid.and as much as its unpleasant to think about its quite possible that a teacher may be so intrenched in there own ways and have such a bad attitude towards certain issues that they automatically treat any request as pandering.

My eldest child when she was under ten was run over as a result of this accident and the surgery that was done to try and repair her legs she was unable to wear shoes,she was able to provide medical evidence of this before she started school and updated this every 6 month th school had a copy and she kept one on her person. Yet she was repeatedly put in isolation given detentions and was suspended on 5 occasions because she was wearing soft boots.

One of my other children who has HF ASD was allowed no sensory accommodations at all despite his OT,ed physiologist and statement stating what accommodations were needed and every time I raised it I was treated like I was pandering. I was even told by the teacher with responsibility for sn inclusion that dc did not have ASD and surly I must be able to see that after all,all my other kids with ASD (LF) looked disabled where as this dc didnt.

Needless to say dc was moved to a different school.

I think it can be very hard to understand your own limitations and viewpoints and reconise when your being a twat and often when you do have it dawn on you that you are wrong it can be really hard to back down especially when your in a position of authority.

MidniteScribbler Sat 16-Feb-13 01:35:13

Sockreturningpixie, it can depend a lot on how parents approach the school and how they provide solutions to make it work for everyone. For example, in your daughters situation, with medical evidence she would (at my school anyway) be permitted to wear alternative footwear, but you would be expected to provide shoes that are similiar in appearance (colour) to the school shoes. She wouldn't be permitted to wear hot pink or other colours. There would also be a request for you to source appropriate sports footwear (if she participated in sports) so that she have safe shoes to play in. As for your son, well that teacher is just a twat, can't say much else than that.

It's all about trying to make accommodations work. Like in my previous examples - no I will not allow your child to bring a knife to school so they can cut their apple, and I won't be doing it for them just because they like their fruit done just before they eat it. I will however, permit the child that really hates fruit to eat vegetables instead as long as they are sent cut and ready to eat. I will not permit the parent who says that their child doesn't like fruit to eat crisps or a chocolate bar. Completely different situations.

IAmLouisWalsh Sat 16-Feb-13 09:08:51

larks I wish I was making it up.

I am not talking about dealing with SN - I teach a child with multiple allergies and we have bent over backwards to accommodate. Ditto ASD.

I am talking about the crushing sense of entitlement, and I raise you 'She needs today off for a spray tan because you make her clean off fake tan. It needs three days to deepen and she is going to a party on Saturday'. She is 11!

Or the parent of a 21 year old who insisted his son was 'too scared' to discuss an issue with university admin staff. Who he had previously told to fuck off. Because he was intimidated...

CadleCrap Sat 16-Feb-13 09:18:25

I once organised an outdoor (secondary) school activity. The parents were informed by letter (including permission slip)and in the newsletter that the activity would take place regardless of weather so please ensure your child is dressed suitably ie suncreen hat, if sunny, wet weather gear if raining etc. The kids (secondary btw) were repeatedly told that the activity would not be cancelled due to weather. The day before i told them all the forecast was for rain so dress appropriately.

it rained.

Parents phoned in to complain their kids got wet. Some hadn't been wearing coats despite the fact it had been raining since 5am

The receptionist who had to field the calls was brilliant - she pointed out that the school ethos was to develop resilience!

SirBoob shock I can't believe noone picked up on your post. That is awful. Just shock

doublecakeplease Sat 16-Feb-13 09:43:13

There is a massive difference between SEN and pandering parents.the op was lighthearted and a tad tongue in cheek but as usual people have derailed.

DowntonTrout Sat 16-Feb-13 09:45:19

Erm. My DD is not allergic to uniform. She wears it everyday. But she has had a severe allergic reaction to an item of clothing straight out of plastic packaging. We think it's the chemicals sprayed on clothes either as finishing or to prevent them going moldy in transit. We have to wash everything thoroughly before wearing, then it's fine.

Anyhow, school were informed and lo and behold a few days later they gave her a netball skirt to try on which had just arrived for the team and was straight out of the box. DD put it on over her clothes as she knew to be careful. but she, and school had not thought about her touching it with her hands, which then touched her face, Or maybe even just breathing in the chemicals as the stuff was unwrapped, we don't know, etc. cue wheezing, swelling, blotches.

All was fine, she had her medication and it didn't develop to severe. But it scared them and DD enough to realise they and she had to be very careful in future. Now I think they thought I was mad at first, allergic to new clothes, yeah right. Not any more. I hold DDs kit for every sport, everyone else has to hand jerseys, tabards etc back after the match. She is not allowed to borrow or swap items of clothes with other people, and if she forgets anything, its tough.

I would like to think schools could tell the difference between those trying it on and making excuses and those with genuine concerns. But look at it from my point of view. Every time we are asked, do you have any allergies on forms etc, we have to put new clothes, straight from packaging. If I put formaldehyde, which is what we think it is, no one realises that that is sprayed on clothes. I always feel a bit embarrassed, people raise their eyebrows, even when I explain. This happened at the hospital yesterday, even they looked at me like I was mad ( and she was hospitalised the first time it happened and it isin her notes!)

DomesticCEO Sat 16-Feb-13 09:48:23

I taught Y 5/6 for some years and the difficult parents were definitely one of the hardest things about the job - especially those who believed their children could do no wrong and would come and tell you off for telling their children off - generally in front of their children.

It's definitely a modern problem and its definitely getting much much worse.

doublecakeplease Sat 16-Feb-13 09:54:46

I teach in FE ~rang the Mum of a student in my tutor group to explain that she'd had a disciplinary and had been put on report. She'd punched a boy in the head in class (not mine) and shoved a teacher as she was storming from the classroom.

Mum tried to tell me that dd was easily lead, was tired and probably had PMT and that putting her on report would embarrass her...

Moominsarehippos Sat 16-Feb-13 09:57:13

When I was at school, you woulkd rather die than be singled out for any treatment - not having to wear uniform, being yoiked out of assembly, not being able to watch a health ed video...

Nowadays everyone seems hell-bent on being 'spesshial'. Everything has a sodding label or 'name' (sorry, but Freddie can't write with a blue pen because he has indigoitus syndrom, which is very rare - also unreported - and he can die I'd he sees the colour blue). We need to accommodate needs but not wants.

Floggingmolly Sat 16-Feb-13 10:09:40

herladyship. Who knew or cared that you spent £19 on a school shirt? confused. Not trying to be rude, but I don't see the issue?

ByTheWay1 Sat 16-Feb-13 10:35:16

I have 2 girls and am a parent (and a dinner lady, so work at my youngest's school)

Generally I would back up the school 100% - but they are a bit up themselves sometimes - they had a water activities day for which parents had to send a change of clothing (we sent 2 - 2 activities, 2 chances of getting wet) her boat capsized, she got hypothermia because "the rules" were they couldn't get changed between activities.... and sailing was in the morning...

That rule has changed now....

DowntonTrout Sat 16-Feb-13 10:37:58

But Moomin my DD might die rather than be singled out. I was always a bit hmm about letters home from school when someone has a nut allergy. I used to think that if they didn't physically eat the nuts themselves how could they come to any harm blush

FWIW we don't have a label yet for allergic to new clothes grin

Bluestocking Sat 16-Feb-13 10:42:38

OMG, IAmLouisWalsh, I had a student's mum insisting that she had to accompany diddums daughter to an appointment with me because diddums had found me "intimidating" on the phone! Presumably because anyone who doesn't coo, chuck diddums under the chin and accommodate her every whim is just too too unbearable. I can assure you I had been the soul of courtesy to this young woman - I just hadn't agreed with her!

Moominsarehippos Sat 16-Feb-13 10:56:33

Oh I know - there are genuine reasons why a child needs to be 'singled out' and the school/parents need to do it in an appropriate way, so that the child doesn't have to contend with teasing/bitchy comments etc as well as an allergy/pain etc. I think that there are more/more severe aggergies around these days.

It does seem though that every other child has some need or other. Not sure if its just the 'me' generation, or parents working themselves to death being too tired/busy to argue with the child ("get that coat on now and get to school").

We did have a child who 'needed' to have gel in his hair, as it was his 'style' (the good old Hoxton/th Fin). He was about 7 and looked a bit of a prat actually.

Buzzardbird Sat 16-Feb-13 11:16:15

We have a dispute with tenants leaving our house in a right state, damage, destroyed property and dog shit everywhere. The mother of the tenant (who is in her 20's Ffs) has forbid us to talk or write directly to tenant as it is upsetting her! What a brilliant life skill she has taught that woman!
who will protect her from reality when her parents die?

BattlingFanjos Sat 16-Feb-13 11:52:48

I am a parent and have a 5yo DS. He started reception in Sept. We have lovely teachers (2 that jobshare) and several wonderful TAs. The only issues we have all come across is DS trying to manipulate us all, playing us off against each other. We talk about it, show DS a united front and make it clear we know exactly what he's doing (evil laugh!). Unless there was a serious issue (and i am very confident i would be listened to) I would not be making daft requests such as those in the OP (uniform excluded if there was a problem). Why would I want to exclude him from the other kids? The main focus for me sending him to school is to teach him how to socialise, respect other people, to understand he is not better than anyone else, to learn how to interact. It baffles me that some parents want to take that away from their DC it's such a shame. Parents and teachers should work together in making sure this happens. I said it before on another thread, these people are almost co-parenting my child for 6 hours a day, is it not better to work together? (confused) i'm very lucky they are such lovely, approachable, normal people I guess

BattlingFanjos Sat 16-Feb-13 11:56:06

Buzzatd thats priceless. I can just imagine my mum's face if I had asked her to call my landlord and say that! Think I'd have heard something along the lines of "Fuck right off"

Chottie Sat 16-Feb-13 11:57:52

Having had children who are now through the education system, I am finding some of these posts unbelievable, I thought it was a parents responsibility to support and help their child to become a fully independent adult.

I did not attend one university open day with either of my children, I know of no other parent who did either.

My DC both had bank accounts from the age of 16 and credit cards from the age of 18. I gave advice (when requested!) but I expected them to manage their money. I taught them both to cook, wash, iron and understand the transport systems so they could be independent.

I had my first Saturday job at 15 and I sorted it out myself, I would have been embarrassed if my mother had been ringing up (!)

DowntonTrout Sat 16-Feb-13 12:00:09

And did the tennant not find living in a filthy house with dog poo everywhere upsetting? Ha. That would worry me more if it was my DD. I would tell her so and make her clean it up.

Pricklypickup Sat 16-Feb-13 12:01:18

I phoned my dc's head to say that dc may not be on top form as two days before they were diagnosed with cancer.

Following week deputy head phoned to ask if my dc's infection had cleared up, I said no they don't have an infection they have cancer.

Deputy said "Yes they are telling these lies to the teacher, it is very distressing for the teacher to hear such things, esp when they are untrue".

manicinsomniac Sat 16-Feb-13 12:05:25

pricklypickup that is insanely bad, did you make an official complaint? Seriously, one of the nastiest attitudes I've ever heard from a school. And I can't imagine how hard it must be having two children with cancer at once. I hope they and you are doing ok.

In general though OP, YANBU

Pricklypickup Sat 16-Feb-13 12:08:02

Sorry only one child with cancer. Just was avoiding their gender.

Dc asked me not to make a fuss, just asked if we could arrange at end of the school year we could remove them. Which of course we agreed to.

CaptainVonTrapp Sat 16-Feb-13 12:13:53

Horrified at some of the parents described on here.

But I do feel that some of the teachers on here sound a bit immune to the fact that children are individuals and may have differing needs.

There is a balance between blindly following rules and 'pandering' to individual wants.

Why can't the child wear a coat OP if they're cold? Do you think thats not true and theres another reason for keeping a coat on?

manicinsomniac Sat 16-Feb-13 12:16:03

oh, sorry prickly Still outrageous though. Hope your dc settles at the new school.

manicinsomniac Sat 16-Feb-13 12:18:51

Captain I agree about the coats actually. My school has a no coats, hats, gloves, scarves etc inside rule but sometimes I think my classroom is cold. Granted I feel the cold really badly but I sometimes wear a coat in there so I would feel hypocritical if I made the children take them off. I try to weigh up the temperature/likelihood of SMT coming round and then decide whether I would rather freeze myself and make everyone follow the rules or risk it, keep my coat on and let them do the same.

GanglyGiraffe Sat 16-Feb-13 12:22:01

The parent of one of my little darlings (yr1) was up in arms because I wouldn't let them have a flask of herbal tea in the classroom confused She had a cold and needed it apparently.

She went to the Head and everything! Gave everyone a good laugh in the staffroom at lunch time though grin

IAmLouisWalsh Sat 16-Feb-13 12:33:34

If the classroom is very cold I have no problem with keeping coats on. If it isn't, and only one child is affected, I have an itchy chin. Especially when the 'coat' is a trackie top. I offer the loan of a school jumper or a move to the front, next to the heater. Seems to clear the problem up.

As I have said before, I teach secondary. I dare say I would be a bit nicer if I was dealing with infants.

My other issue is parents withi built in lie-detectors. Fr example, I see and hear X tell a teacher to fuck off. When I get the parents in, they insist they have asked X, X says it wasn't them, and they believe X. X never lies. I am just making it up because I don't like X.

Actually, I don't much like X because she keeps telling my colleagues to fuck off...

jamdonut Sat 16-Feb-13 12:34:14

Going waaaaay back to the microwave situation...our lunchtime is 45 minutes. If we are very ,very lucky,staff get half an hour (though usually about 20 minutes). There is already a queue for the microwave in our staffroom. If we had to accommodate children as well...!! WE would NEVER get our lunches!! hmm

ImperialBlether Sat 16-Feb-13 12:34:57

Prickly, I'm so sorry to hear about your child. Didn't you contact the school, though, after the diagnosis? Surely it would mean a lot of time off school? Hope your child's had a full recovery.

elliejjtiny Sat 16-Feb-13 12:41:37

I'm shock at some of these comments, some from parents and some from schools.

I have eczema and needed to wear 100% cotton when at school (it's not that bad now and improves dramatically whenever I'm on the pill, weird). I had to carry a note from my mum explaining why I was wearing a plain black sweatshirt instead of a black v-neck jumper. I wouldn't have been allowed to wear a sweatshirt with a logo or different colour though.

DS2 has hypermobility and is allowed to sit on a chair in class and in assembly. The teachers have been fine with that although they are less keen to take his wheelchair on school trips. I have put my foot down on that though and they will have to find someone to push him from somewhere.

GanglyGiraffe Sat 16-Feb-13 12:58:45

Can I just try and shed some light on the 'blanket rule' situation?

A few years back when we had the first lot of heavy snow, my school had a rule saying that 'only children with wellies are allowed out'.

The next day one of my parents was really annoyed (and rightly so) because at the weekend she had went out and bought an expensive pair of waterproof boots especially for her DD to wear in the snow, for her then not to be allowed outside because they were not wellies.

Sounds like madness right?

However from a Teacher's point of view to go round every child and try to work out who had suitable shoes and who didn't would take forever. Also the children cope better with blanket rules, stops all the- "but Lucy is going out and she doesn't have Wellies!!"- tantrums.

So that is why schools sometimes blanket rules, even though they can seem ridiculous.

happilyconfused Sat 16-Feb-13 13:10:16

Nightmare with year12 and year13 parents too. All the excuses under the sun with regards attendance, behaviour , motivation and achievement. It is always someone else's fault never the fault of the child. The parents say they have done all they can so what is the school doing about it! Honestly no wonder we have created a generation of kids who take no responsibility because we have parents who are quite frankly irresponsible!

Sparklingbrook Sat 16-Feb-13 13:12:28

The parents don't back the teachers up and the children know it, that's the problem. I don't know what the solution is. All respect has disappeared.

My mum used to write notes to get DBro out of doing rugby so he didn't injure his tennis arm before a match. It was probably unreasonable but one of his friends had been injured and had missed matches. He does earn his living from tennis now so maybe it was worth it.

I am sure the op is right in many cases but it's the same with so much in life, people think, oh it's just a little thing. They don't see the bigger picture. Things like speeding, not clearing up dog poo, bringing your 12yo to a 15 film. However there are notable exceptions and it's hard to draw the line sometimes.

SirBoob that is awful. What horrible people.

CheerfulYank I do the same job as you, all my staff who are in their 30s are the most entitled, lazy sods and the younger ones are the ones who seem to just get on with it, happy to take instruction, do the boring jobs, smile at customers etc. Not that that proves anything but interesting to hear someone else's experience.

notallytuts Sat 16-Feb-13 13:15:01

The coats argument always gets me too. When I was at school, we had school fleeces (in addition to jumpers). Some teachers wouldnt let us wear them in class as "we didnt need them, it was warm enough". Well, for me, it wasnt warm enough, just as for some students, it was too warm, and so they were allowed to take their jumpers off and sit there in a shirt. If it was a non-uniform jumper I could understand the teachers POV more, but really - what reason would I have for wanting to wear a school fleece in class other than being cold!

Pickles101 Sat 16-Feb-13 13:19:38

Gangly despite your explanation, I still think that situation sounds more than a little bit ridiculous.

LaQueen Sat 16-Feb-13 13:19:43

It's rife in schools...and, if you are this sort of parent, then you're really not helping your child.

DH has recruited graduates in the past, who had their parents ringing DH bitterly complaining that DH wouldn't let their little darling (who was 22) take a last minute day off work, to go to a festival 'that they've set their heart on going to.'

The. Utter. Shame. Of. It grin

thebody Sat 16-Feb-13 13:22:36

You should have a stronger head and senior management team.

Maryz Sat 16-Feb-13 13:22:40

To be fair, some parents of some year 12/13 children physically can't make their kids do anything. It isn't always their fault, but it amazes me that they expect the school to be able to if they can't.

I had a nightmare with attendance and time-keeping with ds1 - he often just didn't go in.

But I backed the school completely with their punishments.

I was a bit miffed when punishment for mitching was being given time off suspended though. I thought that was a bit counter-productive confused.

LaQueen Sat 16-Feb-13 13:23:00

I get tired of parents who constantly excuse their child's very poor behaviour with...they're just tired...they're just hungry...they're just bored...

Yes, and...?

freddiefrog Sat 16-Feb-13 13:26:42

When I was at school, we had school fleeces (in addition to jumpers). Some teachers wouldnt let us wear them in class as "we didnt need them, it was warm enough".

Yes, we have this at our school. We have uniform zip up fleeces, with short-sleeved polo shirts. The children are supposed to remove them in class, but if they're cold, then why shouldn't they be allowed to keep them on? No one has the right to tell another person how hot or cold they are

We also have it at high school, the head sends a text to parents telling them when their child is allowed to wear a uniform-issue coat to and from school.

My eldest is taking part in a school production and has been told she has to have an Indian design painted on her arms in henna. DD gets awful eczema so I've said she can't have it on. Not to be difficult, but because I don't want to subject my DD to painful itchy bleeding arms. Brown felt tip pen will do the same job without aggravating her eczema, but the teacher is insisting it has to be henna so we're now in a stand off.

I do support the school as much as I can, but stuff like the above makes no sense to me so I will question it

IAmLouisWalsh Sat 16-Feb-13 13:27:47

thebody - was the point about Head and SMT made to me?

I am SMT. Which is one of the reasons why I don't put up with it. And I'd love to meet a stronger head than mine!

Maryz Sat 16-Feb-13 13:30:09

ds2's school has school hoodies as well as jumpers.

They now have a rule that they are allowed to wear them under their jumpers as an extra layer if they are genuinely cold, but aren't allowed to wear them instead of jumpers.

That gets rid of the practice that was sneaking in of all the boys wearing their hoodies instead of their jumpers - which in itself doesn't seem like a problem, but the ones wearing hoodies discovered they could get away with no ties, and then with t-shirts, and it was getting to the stage that they were all avoiding uniform completely.

Now they only wear their hoodies if they are cold.

thebody Sat 16-Feb-13 13:34:17

No sorry just a general comment really. I work in a school and we can expect our head and SMT to back us up ic parents are completely unreasonable.

It must be bloody awful for some teachers if in effect they say one thing and the HT undermines them to save complaints from parents.

Definatly I am a parent who backs up the school. I love my kids far too much to spoil and pander to them which is what seems to be the case now.

happilyconfused Sat 16-Feb-13 13:35:41

Maryz - I don't agree with suspensions. I don't want them to miss more lessons. Detentions don't work either. All we can do is nag - just like the parents. Employers do contact us asking about attendance and sickness etc so I do warn students.

If the parents can't sort things what do they want me to do? Maybe I should drive around like a truancy patrol?

One parent called the Chancellor of a uni last year for an explanation as to why they had turned daughter down (she did not meet the offer grades)

Fredstheteds Sat 16-Feb-13 13:36:37

Wonderful!

Love the micro and the lunch....... Suggest if the darling need it heated then please bring it down to school hot, suddenly things might change! Am food tech teacher and its once in a while I get asked.... Normally as I have 6 th formers not a problem. Jewellery is health and safety and uniform well its uni-form. Everyone looks the same...

Fredstheteds Sat 16-Feb-13 13:38:13

Freddie frog

What about cheap long sleeved tshirts and henna on top

Maryz Sat 16-Feb-13 13:42:34

I always felt that ds1's suspensions were a punishment for me.

He enjoyed them.

The best punishments (and ds2 gets these, and I think they are great) are cleaning up ones. So ds2 gets "lunchtime duty" and has to clear tables - very embarrassing as your friends make more mess for you to clear up. They also get to work with the caretaker who makes them sweep floors and sort out sports kit. They are great, because they are detention with a purpose - and ds2 accepts them pretty happily.

On the last day of term any child who has been persistently late suddenly discovers their name on a furniture moving list, for example, as the school gets ready for exams.

However, I do know parents who have written in and refused to give permission for their children to pick up litter or mop floors or move chairs hmm.

TheDisorganiser Sat 16-Feb-13 13:43:08

OMG, prickly, what an outrageous response from the Deputy! shock I hope you really went to town on them over that, and hope your DC is recovering now.

LaQueen Sat 16-Feb-13 13:47:11

As yet, the DDs have never been in any type of trouble at school, not even tiny stuff.

But, going forward, I would definitely be one of those parents who backed the school - even if, yes even if...I felt the school might be being slightly unfair.

Because, I think it important for our DDs to understand that sometimes life can be slightly unfair, and it's how you roll with the punches and deal with it, that is important.

GanglyGiraffe Sat 16-Feb-13 13:51:17

Gangly despite your explanation, I still think that situation sounds more than a little bit ridiculous.

Agreed, but it wasn't my rule and saved me a headache. Besides if we had let all the kids out regardless of how inappropriately they were dressed, a parent no doubt would have came in to complain about that too!

CloudsAndTrees Sat 16-Feb-13 13:51:21

Gangly

The school I work in has a similar rule, but saying that children can't go outside unless they have wellies or snowboots isn't exactly a huge leap to make.i think that rule sounds ridiculous too, and I'm not surprised a parent complained at that.

Surely you just tell children that they have to have school shoes and something suitable for snow? Wellies aren't even the best thing to be wearing in snow because they are colder and involve the faff of extra socks!

CloudsAndTrees Sat 16-Feb-13 13:53:45

I also find these rules about extra coats a bit ridiculous too. If a child can't do what they are supposed to be doing because their coat is too restrictive, then fine, make them take them off because its interfering with their learning.

But if it makes no difference, I don't see the problem. My reception class are encouraged to make heathy and responsible choices for themselves, and that includes whether they are hot or cold!

freddiefrog Sat 16-Feb-13 13:54:11

Fredstheteds. I think the teacher may spontaneously combust if I dared suggest a deviation from her costume ideas. I think stress levels are running a bit high at the moment. I'm helping out on the day so will be doing the make up and applying the henna so I'm leaving it until then. I have a brown liquid eye liner which I've tested on her arm so I'll just use that instead of the henna.

I'm just fed up with her constantly harping on at me about it, and pushing DD to let her 'just try a little bit'

Maryz Sat 16-Feb-13 13:58:46

Usually the no coat rule isn't really for warmth reasons - it's to stop them wearing designer gear that is not uniform.

The minute you allow coats, half of them will "forget" their school jumper but remember their Hollister hoodie jacket or Superdry coat.

GanglyGiraffe Sat 16-Feb-13 13:59:06

The school I work in has a similar rule, but saying that children can't go outside unless they have wellies or snowboots isn't exactly a huge leap to make.

Yes but who's to say what counts as a snow boot? Where I work snow boot= fake uggs off the market. confused

CloudsAndTrees Sat 16-Feb-13 14:27:18

That's a fair point Gangly, unfortunately!

Parents at my school come in two categories. The ones that will provide proper snowboots and wellies with fleece socks or the ones that will provide nothing at all.

The ones that really annoy me are the ones that complain about their lost, unnamed jumpers, but think that naming them doesn't matter because of the tiny tear in the label, or the stain on the right inside cuff hmm

MushroomSoup Sat 16-Feb-13 16:49:18

I y

MushroomSoup Sat 16-Feb-13 16:53:49

Oops! I recently told a 7 year off for not getting a pencil and starting his work (he had sat for ten mins waiting for me to be his maid to get him one).
The next day he was late to school as his dad had taken him to the GP's for a hearing test. And guess what? He couldn't have heard the instruction because he has wax in his ears so therefore I was DISGRACEFUL to have told him off and I should apologise.

MushroomSoup Sat 16-Feb-13 16:54:48

What about the parents who think you should be able to find an unnamed jumper because of the smell?!

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 16-Feb-13 16:59:24

Does that seriously happen mushroom?

With the coat thing wouldn't it equally in force the no designer label thing is a uniform coat ( plain colour school badge on it) included as part of the uniform?

IfNotNowThenWhen Sat 16-Feb-13 17:17:45

When I was at high school and working as a freelance illustrator I used to get breifs faxed to the school fax machine.
grin

(Faxes! I am ancient!)

sherzy Sat 16-Feb-13 17:37:47

It's good for schools to put rules in place that cover the minor things like coats, shoes, hair colour etc... as teenagers will push every boundary set.

I would love to see the dc of these pampering parents when they get their first job and they turn in late/out of uniform/mouth off.

flaggybannel Sat 16-Feb-13 18:06:02

when ds was in primary school there was an unexpectedly warm afternoon where the class was allowed to take off school jumpers. It was quickly discovered that most some children didnt have the ridiculously overpriced school polo shirts on underneath with the school logo on and just had on ordinary polo shirts.
Teacher insisted jumpers had to be put back on to hide the cheap offending polo shirts.
Cue a playground full of red-faced sweating kids at hometime gagging for a drink. I was furious and so were a lot of other mums. It made no sense . Poor kids feeling hot and bothered in that classroom all afternoon.

Created a lot of bad feeling

plantsitter Sat 16-Feb-13 18:26:40

My kids are not at school yet. I have only joined this thread to say that PLEASE will somebody come up with another name than 'little Johnny' when they're talking about an imaginary pupil. Either that or a posh one called 'Little Tarquin'. It's always the same name and it drives me insane.

I'm sure I will be the model of the laissez faire parent when my kids start school, as long as the teachers understand that DD1 is very sensitive and doesn't like being told off at all, so to avoid the future need for therapy, we ask that she is merely gently advised to stop whatever naughty thing she's doing.

Bearbehind Sat 16-Feb-13 18:43:08

plantsitter please say you are taking the piss confused

thebody Sat 16-Feb-13 18:50:35

When my older kids were teens and all their group started to get sat and holiday jobs we could pick out the ones who couldn't keep their jobs because they were constantly late/lazy/entitled and couldn't take adults reading them.

Yes it was the ones whose parents were constantly in school complaining about horrible teachers and how really nice little shitty was but just misunderstood/sensitive/ hot/cold/tired.

Made us laugh.

treas Sat 16-Feb-13 19:22:23

Well it would be nice if teachers (not all I know) actually listened to the children and didn't override their genuine concerns or brow beat them into doing something that is for the teacher's convenience and not the child's.

Genuine as in real / proper concerns such as bullying not cutting up fruit. I wouldn't expect a 6 y.o. boy whose gone to tell his teacher that 3 boys turned round in a football game to kick him a kicking to be brow beaten into saying it was "a game gone wrong" and then try the same tactic on the parents.

As for cutting up fruit my dc have been doing that themselves as well as making their own packed lunch from an early age. Parents, as well as teachers, don't want to be waiters / waitresses the entire time grin

Dinkysmummy Sat 16-Feb-13 20:28:04

I have found this thread hugely entertaining!

In no way did OP say anything against children with SN, so with that aside...

I think it is hilarious what stuff parents come up with! I have a friend in the playground both DCs nearly 5... (her dd has no sn)

She asked the school to monitor her dds eating in school and feed her if necessary because otherwise her dd wouldn't eat! shock
When I said she was balmy and teachers had better things to do than feed her dd she almost bit my head off. Apparently she spoon feeds dd in the mornings! shock

That kid is going to end up being so high maintenance it is untrue!

She has also given other unreasonable demands such as have her dd kept in at lunch because the previous night dd had a runny nose! FFS.. And she wonders why the medical room staff roll their eyes when she walks their way! I tend to only talk to her outside the playground.

happilyconfused Sat 16-Feb-13 20:57:32

Clearly too many start primary kids not being able to feed themselves, go to the loo or do up coats. They are prob the same ones whose parents contact me on a regular basis to say darling has a headache so will not be in today and could I explain in detail why they are not predicted an A for their university offer. Surely this overprotection will lead to mental health issues in the long term.

I will ask my mum to call the Head on Monday to say that I am feeling poorly.

middleeasternpromise Sat 16-Feb-13 21:13:36

I think you are right that people expect the rules not to be for them but also some schools need to realise when they make unrealistic rules theres going to be problems :-

eg - only regulation book bags as we have a special drawer and nothing else fits (but we only sell them between 3-15 and 3.45 on a wed and only the wed before the holidays- what do you mean you cant get in on a wednesday?)
no peanut butter sandwiches because of potential allergies but also no chocolate spread as sometimes that has nuts, no crisps on a wednesday, no chocolate at all but you can have a chocolate biscuit? - so yes to a kit kat but no to a small pack of buttons.
no boots ever even if the weather is crap.
no socks that reach over the knee (apparently thats Brittany Spears fault)
no using the bins - I kid you not, all empty yogurt pots, apple cores, sandwich wrapper must be taken home - after sloshing about in a lunch box for a few hours.

TheDisorganiser Sat 16-Feb-13 21:41:01

My DS1 has just started primary school (Australia, the school year starts in Feb) and he takes in a packed lunch and water bottle, as he did for preschool. But they don't let him drink from his water bottle, they want him to use the water fountains (bubblers) in the loos. Why? What earthly reason do they have for this? Apart from anything else (ok, a bit PFB but...) the children at this age put their whole mouths over the nozzles and so pass on all germs - is it a "weeding out" thing? Let them all catch each others' germs in the first week?

DS1's friend from pre-school has been off sick for nearly a week with a cold/cough; DS1 has a mild cough and possibly has passed it to me since I have a cold now too, which I'm trying to protect DS2 from (he's 4mo) - and yet there is a move here to ban blowing out birthday candles on cake that is to be shared at school because it spreads germs. I'd sooner ban the bloody water fountain bubblers and let them drink from their bottle!

I expect there is a perfectly good reason for this and IABU but could someone explain it to me please?

MrsDeVere Sat 16-Feb-13 21:55:28

I am not a lairy parent. My DCs are expected to follow the rules and do a lot of 'suck it up'.

So if I do talk to a teacher about a particular issue it is very stressful when they do the <sigh> 'here we go' thing.

DS has severe eczema. I gave a list of things that would exacerbate it. Considering the extreme nature of his condition I fully trusted that I would be taken seriously and he would not be sat next to a window or a radiator and would be able to use a chair at circle time. Not too much to ask surely?

Apparently so. Due to his significant language delay I didn't find out what was going on for a fair few weeks. Poor little bugger had to spend time off school in medicated bandages.

He doesn't go to that school anymore. They treated all parents as precious.

The same school took me aside one Friday and asked me if I could sort out DC's eczema over the weekend as it was very difficult for them to cope with his scratching and discomfort. hmm

There is far to much eye rolling going on in schools IMO. Even school staff are capable of being a bit up themselves.

CadleCrap Sat 16-Feb-13 22:18:53

TheDisorganiser My DS has also just started Prep (Oz). That might explain why he has had a cold and conjunctivitus in the last 2 weeks.

MidniteScribbler Sat 16-Feb-13 23:04:31

TheDisorganiser - I'm a teacher in Australia. At our school we encourage students to keep a bottle of water (refillable one, not a purchased one) which they can sip from whenever they want and refill from the taps. It might be worth approaching the school and trying to get this implemented. I think children (and adults!) should have access to water whenever they need it. The only rules about it we have are that they have to be all in one (no separate caps to get lost) and they can't fill up during class time, only before school, morning tea, lunch.

Middleeasternpromise - the no garbage thing is because having bins full of food waste can encourage vermin. Budget cuts mean the cleaners don't come in and empty the bins every day anymore, so you don't want food sitting there for a day or so encouraging mice. We've also got a whole of school campaign to reduce rubbish/encourage recycling, so we ask that everything is sent in reusable containers that the students can take home with them and wash and reuse.

Moominsarehippos Sat 16-Feb-13 23:14:30

We were told that half eater sandwiches and banana skins came home so that parents could see how much had been eaten. The habit has stuck, so I am always pulling half a soggy biscuit out of the bottom of backpacks, pockets, washing machine...

Wolfiefan Sat 16-Feb-13 23:23:00

Mrs De Vere
I am an eczema sufferer, both my kids have eczema and I'm a teacher. No eye rolling here!
There is a huge difference between parents acting like their kids are above rules and those who suffer with an awful condition like eczema. Teachers should ensure they don't make those students suffer. Grrr! (At such staff!)

DizzyZebra Sat 16-Feb-13 23:39:25

The school uniform thing If they're genuinely allergic obviously rules should be bent.

The rest of it YANBU and i would struggle to not tell them to do one.

TheDisorganiser Sun 17-Feb-13 01:40:45

Midnitescribbler - yes, that makes perfect sense to do what your school does, I can't imagine why DS1's does it the way they do! I plan on going to the P&C meetings and, um, making the suggestion quite strongly. A friend of mine has the "trouble" child in the class - allergies, both eczematous and anaphylactic, plus he has communication issues. I've already advocated for her at the first P&C meeting, thus getting my face "in the picture", iyswim. I hope I can make a difference re. the water though because apart from anything else, I like to keep an eye on how much DS1 drinks in a day because he has a tendency to forget, and that will of course affect his concentration.

Cadlecrap - yep, I'd say so!

MidniteScribbler Sun 17-Feb-13 01:44:28

I agree with you there TheDisorganiser. I don't think there's any valid reason for restricting water intake for children. Adults can generally go and get a glass of water anytime they feel like it, but we expect children to go sometimes two hours without any opportunity to drink it.

makemineamalibuandpineapple Sun 17-Feb-13 09:15:49

I work in the out-patients department of a hospital and the amount of parents I get phoning up wanting to know about their adult children's test results, appointments etc. Unless they are the next of kin, I cannot divulge that. Some of them get really shirty with me "Oh but Felicity can't possibly ring you, she's away at university". Well tough, Felicity is 20 years old so will have to make time grin

cory Sun 17-Feb-13 09:58:06

It would also be nice if teachers bothered to read medical evidence submitted and did not assume that if 9 out of 10 excuses are bollocks that means any one child they are speaking to has to fall in the 90% category and not the 10%.

I still haven't forgotten the meeting where the hospital paediatrician explained dd's painful medical condition in great detail to a meeting of school staff and afterwards the only question put by a member of staff was "but how can we know that she is in pain?". (Because if x % of children lie, that then that has clearly got to mean they all lie. hmm) The paed's facial expression was absolutely wonderful; she could have sat for the hmm emoticon.

We were also repeatedly told (often in dd's hearing) how much trouble it was to have a child like dd in the class.

The school never passed on any information to supply teachers, new subject teachers etc, with the result that every new teacher supposed dd was just in the silly excuses category.

And the head stopped me every time I referred to (wheelchair using) dd as disabled; apparently, there is some mythical Register of the disabled you have to on to be allowed to call yourself disabled.
(The only one I can think of is the blue badge, but as we didn't have a car, naturally we didn't have a blue badge either)

I am a university teacher myself, I know all about silly excuses. But the day I assume that any one student in front of me is making up excuses because some of them do will be the day I need to leave that job.

TeWiSavesTheDay Sun 17-Feb-13 10:02:40

Cory, I kind of think that too.

And about medical staff as well, okay lots of people lie but that doesn't mean the patient sat right in front of you now is lying. If you assume they are when they aren't they might not get the right treatment, and how us that fair? That they are punished because other people lie?

When you treat everyone like a liar, instead of at least considering the possibility, it's time to do something else.

MrsDeVere Sun 17-Feb-13 11:02:14

Wolfie I wish you had been his teacher!
He is in a SN school now. I honestly think mainstream schools could learn a lot from the SN model.

Small classes, differentiated work for each pupil, person centered planning and full integration.

Of course none of that is possible without the 'smaller classes'. With the best will in the world and the nicest teachers, you just cant do it in a class of 30. I don't know how teachers manage to do as much as they do!

I always approach teachers, social workers and medics with the expectation that they will treat me like a grown up. I always feel incredibly let down when they do the eye rolly, huffy thing. Doesn't matter how many times it happens.

Moominsarehippos Sun 17-Feb-13 12:14:33

I was at college with a girl who got a three week extension for an essay due to a 'family bereavement'. It turned out that her cat had died. This is not a joke, the head of the course told me himself. He sounded very resigned when he told me - he would have gone mental at anyonme else pulling such a stunt (daddy was some well-known gobshite-or-other, so I suspect he was making his presence felt).

MidniteScribbler Sun 17-Feb-13 12:24:38

When you treat everyone like a liar, instead of at least considering the possibility, it's time to do something else.

None of the teachers here have said that they would ever dismiss a legitimate concern, especially if presented with medical evidence, and a workable solution by the parent. The issues that teachers are talking about are the unreasonable requests. "Little Susie can't wear the school jumper because the red clashes with her hair colour, she'll need to wear purple instead."

I would NEVER dismiss legitimate concerns for parents, as I want my students to succeed in class. But I am not pandering to parents who think that their five year old should be allowed to have a mobile phone switched on all the time in class (yes, have had this one) or tells me to remind their ten year old to eat all of their sandwich at lunchtime before they can go and buy something from the tuckshop (had this one too). These are very specific cases of children without special needs. Children with diagnosed special needs are a completely separate issue.

Sparklingbrook Sun 17-Feb-13 12:26:15

Well said Midnite.

FakePlasticLobsters Sun 17-Feb-13 12:41:57

There's only one school rule I wish we could change, and that's the one that insists on boys in trousers in the summer, on the rare days it is really hot.

I'm sure we could do a smart uniform that allowed shorts. Nephew's in Australia look smart and comfortable in their shorts uniform, I'm sure we could do it too.

My middle DD had a nightmare time in secondary because of the pain that she was in, as she has PCOS. She had time off and the head just didn't believe her.

She had the cheek to say infront of me "yes well i'm sure all of the girls are tired", when my DD said this after heavy blood loss for four months solid. She never said similar again, after my reply.

The consulatant did not want to over treat her until she was 16, so she had to suffer.

In terms of work, i have intervened when a manager of a Children's Centre (where she is on placement) said to her "that you cannot have PCOS at 16" and you could not have been diagnosed at 14, when she needed time off for a medical appointment.

She also told my DD "to be honest, she wasn't a carer to my mother", who has Lung Cancer (she has moved in with her, to care for her).

The manager wouldn't have dared to say that to a regular member of staff and you are allowed an advocate at grievence meetings.

I am the best person to represent my DD because i attend all of her appointments and it is what i do as part of my job role. My Dd left, as she has operations coming up that she knew she wouldn't get support for.

We have threads on here about bullying and i have found that if given the oppurtunity to, a bully always will target the teen girl.

The stuff that i have had to pull schools up on in my work has been shocking.

TheDisorganiser Sun 17-Feb-13 13:46:29

Birds, I remember a friend being diagnosed with PCOS back in the early 90s, the doc was very surprised that she had it as she was only mid-20s and she was given information (that the GP obviously believed) that PCOS was rare in women under 40! There is some very bizarre misinformation out there about PCOS, hopefully now completely out of date and superceded by real information.
Your poor DD!

Moominsarehippos Sun 17-Feb-13 13:55:56

The sad thing is that although we don't have the blanket 'broken leg? Get running, that'll fix it and don't make a fuss' mentality of my school days, there ares far more parents willing to 'challenge The System' (like the parents who went to the European Court of Human Rights to challenge the uniform of their daughter who fancied waring trousers - not for any allergy/religious etc needs, or the parents who were raring up to do similar at the greek school who didn't allow a muslim girl to wear a headscarves - hello, the "Staint' in the school name may have been a giveaway there). They are vocal, can be bloody petty and 'know their rights'. They must also have far too much time on their hands.

Far too many parents with children with genuine needs are busy battling to get proper diagnosis and treatment for their kids, using any spare their energy and funds on their children, to be arguing with their school.

Schools must be fed up with all the red tape and time wasted with 'wants' rather than 'needs' being addressed. So, you don't like the colour of the school shirt/length of trousers/school shoes? Well then, write to the Governors, your MP and Cherie Blair! Alert your lawyer! Sue someone!

It would drive me mad to have to deal with timewasters on a daily basis, and I'm not sure after years of this how I would deal with requests.

Stories like Birds make me very sad, when I see the sad horsey-faces in the newspapers with the headline "School Bans Sally for Having The Word 'Fuck' Shaved into her Hair. Parents To Go To THe Court of Human Rights"

cory Sun 17-Feb-13 14:21:39

Our problem was that because dd had a fluctuating condition, teachers automatically assumed that she had to be lying when she said she couldn't do X at lunchtime because they had seen her with their own eyes doing X in the morning or the week before.

We did try to explain again and again about it being a fluctuating condition, but were just put down as unreasonable parents trying to pull a fast one.

TeWiSavesTheDay Sun 17-Feb-13 15:05:08

Midnite I didn't say that any of the teachers on this thread were like that, they have all seemed perfectly reasonable!

However I have met a few people in education/healthcare etc who have that kind of "every parent/patient/child is a liar" attitude and it really stinks. I particularly didn't like the Dr who decided that because I happened to be on my period when I came into hospital with severe abdominal pain I was lying/exaggerating/making a fuss about nothing. He did apologise after my appendix exploded (to my parents, not me hmm), but I lost half my bowel because I was treated as a liar. And yes that still upsets me.

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 17-Feb-13 18:12:21

Cory the list she may have been referring to could be the register of disabled children that some local authorities have and your name has to be on it to get certain LA concessions like the short break payment scheme.

Moomins why in this day and age shouldn't girls be able to wear trousers?

Bearbehind Sun 17-Feb-13 18:28:27

Check out the 'banned from a trade show' thread for the perfect example of what I think the OP was referring to- unbelievable!

Moominsarehippos Sun 17-Feb-13 19:10:57

I'm all for girls wearing trousers - this particular case was a mum getting shirty because the uniform was, well a skirt. She knew that before the child went to school. She kicked up a fuss later when the child wanted to go into law and it was all very contrived - plus a huge waste of time/money to go to the court of human rights. I get annoyed when human rights is used in such context - she wasn't born into slavery, or sold, or abused.

Our son detested wearing shorts to school - probably because he was always falling over when he was little. It was the uniform, so he wore them. His knees recovered with no lasting physical or emotional damage. I never thought to tell the school that he had to wear trousers because he has his mums crap balance and to save on band aids.

YouOldSlag Mon 18-Feb-13 08:35:04

Bearbehind- just looked at the trade fair thread. It was like Bingo!

Victim speak- tick.
Overblown use of of words like "banned" and "bullying"-tick.
Refusal to accept well publicised rules- tick.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 18-Feb-13 12:05:06

Of course if the school had of just said "oh yes that's a bit not on these days lets inc trousers in our uniform"

Then none of that would have happened.

But yes daft thing to shout human rights about.

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