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Schoolboy taught in isolation for wearing a real tie not a clip on one

(52 Posts)
MariusEarlobe Thu 14-Feb-13 18:51:59
germyrabbit Thu 14-Feb-13 18:54:04

mad response but they are reviewing the policy

insancerre Thu 14-Feb-13 18:54:21

* The school has agreed to review the policy. Nardeep Sharma, headteacher, said the rule was introduced about three years ago to support the health and safety of young people.

He said: "This was in line with the practice in most secondary schools nationally. *
That is the biggest pile of bs I have ever heard.
Teenagers need protecting from dangerous ties? Really ? hmm

Fanjango Thu 14-Feb-13 18:55:15

This is DS school. They have a strict uniform policy. May seem odd to ban ties completely if they are not clip on but that's the rule.

shrimponastick Thu 14-Feb-13 18:55:35

As did mine from the age of 6.

At DSS school they wear clip on ties. He is now 16 and had to be taught how to tie a tie last week.

If ties are so dangerous sort out the root of the problem instead.

meditrina Thu 14-Feb-13 18:56:06

I wonder where on earth they got the idea that most secondaries have mandatory clip ons? DSes certainly don't, and judging by appearances, none of the ones round here do either.

Yes, I suppose he should wear correct uniform or face the school's normal penalty for not doing so. But clip-on ties are just awful. (And secondary boys bent on damaging each other aren't going to be dissuaded from that course of action because of type of tie).

shrimponastick Thu 14-Feb-13 18:56:23

As did mine from the age of 6.

At DSS school they wear clip on ties. He is now 16 and had to be taught how to tie a tie last week.

If ties are so dangerous sort out the root of the problem instead.

hackmum Thu 14-Feb-13 18:57:05

ffs, if ties are that dangerous, why have them at all? Why not have a uniform without ties? Radical idea, I know. I honestly think some headteachers haven't got the sense they were born with.

shrimponastick Thu 14-Feb-13 18:57:12

Sorry for repeating myself.

ComposHat Thu 14-Feb-13 18:59:01

Why not get rid of fucking ties altogether. Fucking pointless at the best of times, doubly so when it is clipped on.

I say bring back the cravat.

Classrooms full of mini Terry-Thomases.

MariusEarlobe Thu 14-Feb-13 19:01:41

Children have been wearing proper ties at secondary for decades. Where I grew up most wore them from four too!

It's only recently they've introduced clip ons.

For decades kids managed mostly to not strangle each other with them.

sassytheFIRST Thu 14-Feb-13 19:14:59

Clip on ties are so that no one can do huge fat knots with a tiny front tail and acres of back tail posted through the shirt buttons. They are at our place , anyway.

desertgirl Thu 14-Feb-13 19:15:20

have come across mandatory clip on ties in adult uniforms as well, particularly where dealing with the public is required. Although the same point applies, why not just design a uniform without.....

exoticfruits Thu 14-Feb-13 19:17:07

They have always worn proper ties! Even 5 yr olds in some schools wear proper ties. If they are suddenly not safe the answer is to not have ties.

Dawndonna Thu 14-Feb-13 19:29:21

They were proper ties at both the schools attended by my dcs. Bloody daft!

Bluestocking Thu 14-Feb-13 23:05:07

The whole thing is ridiculous. Don't you wonder who put the child in question up to going to the papers, though?

cardibach Thu 14-Feb-13 23:14:02

I agree with sassy. Clip on ties (which look exactly like normal ones, so aren't 'awful' meditrina ) are about making everyine look the same - preventing pupils making themselves look ridiculous by making silly knots or having them at half mast. H and S is a red herring, really. This story boils down to 'Schoolboy taught in isolation for breaking the school rules', which isn;t quite so shocking, is it?
Having siad that, I'd be happy for uniform to be abolished completely (secondary teacher).

LineRunner Thu 14-Feb-13 23:16:53

My DS's school has clip-on ties.

It means the Year 11s can rip them off the Year 7s and throw them over the walls more easily.

LineRunner Thu 14-Feb-13 23:18:40

Why not clip-on bow ties?

Ruffles?

Floralnomad Thu 14-Feb-13 23:20:03

Ties can be a safety issue and believe me if you've had a secondary child physically bullied you would see the problem with proper ties . I speak from experience . Anyway TBH most clip on ones look ok and from a distance you can't tell .

Startail Thu 14-Feb-13 23:33:01

Always proper ties here, not that DD2 always ties hers properly.

Surely snatching off and hiding clip on ties opens up a whole new way of getting people in trouble.

If people took to pulling real ties I think a pair of scissors and some velcro might help.

I have threatened to tie DD2s neatly once, stitch the knot and insert a join under her collar.

flow4 Fri 15-Feb-13 00:04:32

My DS lost his clip-on tie months ago. He has been wearing his old proper tie since... No-one has noticed yet!

TraceyTrickster Fri 15-Feb-13 01:45:09

Here in Aus, kids manage to wear a school uniform easily without ties.
Polo shirts, shorts/skirts/skorts and summer/winter dresses.

Their uniforms are easily identifiable and no-one has ever worn a tie¬...radical hey?

Greenkit Fri 15-Feb-13 02:17:06

I suggested clip on ties to the head teacher of my childrens school (High school) as they currently have real ties and all wear them low in a big knott. I was told they couldnt have clip on as then the kids would hit each other over the heads with them and it would be a H&S issue.. hmm

sashh Fri 15-Feb-13 07:00:07

Teenagers need protecting from dangerous ties? Really ?

Never had a tie 'jacked'?

fluffyraggies Fri 15-Feb-13 07:14:28

3 DDs through secondary school have gone from proper ties, to clip on ties, back to proper ties again.

sigh

The school have changed the design of the latest tie twice. They have changed the PE uniform twice. They have changed the blazer once. They have come down hard on the type of skirts, trousers and shoes the girls are wearing (fair enough) but now are trying to dictate the colour and style of outdoor coat that the children are coming to school in confused Why on earth does that matter?

I'm in favor of school uniforms, but this school is stretching my patience thin now.

<needed a vent>

meditrina Fri 15-Feb-13 07:15:27

I don't think they look the same - you can often see the pointy edges of the fake knot standing slightly away from the collar. It looks dreadful, as do all obvious fakes.

flow4 Fri 15-Feb-13 07:29:08

Ties are ridiculous: it's just plain weird to make girls wear them, since women never do... And why pin a phallic symbol to your chest anyway?! confused grin

lljkk Fri 15-Feb-13 07:52:12

They don't look any different to me but DS hated clip on so much he ended up tearing it part. We were told no regular ties at his school but then, lo and behold, regular ties available at yr7 induction evening. I bought 2 & one has gone missing (argh).

I agree no ties at all would be best.

thebody Fri 15-Feb-13 07:56:37

This is why school uniform is quite frankly ridiculous and outdated.

It has no research based evidence to suggest uniform equates better results, see the whole of Europe, and is simply a stupid class throw back where everyone knew their place.

Waste if money.

bigTillyMint Fri 15-Feb-13 08:01:40

DC's school have velcro ties, but my DC have managed to procure the old-stylie real ties and have not yet got into any trouble, despite doing the big knot thing.

I think they were introduced to stop the big knot thing, but TBH you can butcher the velcro ties to have big knots toohmm

valiumredhead Fri 15-Feb-13 08:12:16

All schools have clip ons here as uniform and they are very strict about the rules.

If kids flout the rules they are taught in isolation.

I imagine this kid has been given lots of warnings and he decided he knows better.

If you go to school you abide by their rules wether you agree with them or not.

Yes, no ties would be better imo but we're not at that point yet.

I'm really glad ds's school have clip ons, they are a boisterous lot and clip ons are safer.

Bunfags Fri 15-Feb-13 08:31:04

This is too stupid for words. If only their were a face palm emoticon.

They should concentrate on teaching, not bloody ties.

valiumredhead Fri 15-Feb-13 08:32:38

But it's not about the tie...

Bunfags Fri 15-Feb-13 08:33:54

What is it about?

Shesparkles Fri 15-Feb-13 08:34:46

Mne have been wearing ties since the age of 5 and they're still alive. I've not heard of any fatalities either.

Madness!

valiumredhead Fri 15-Feb-13 08:35:20

Breaking the rules.

Bunfags Fri 15-Feb-13 08:48:27

I just can't get fired up about school tie policy.

I didn't even realise anyone wore clip-ons at school!

I went to a girl's grammar and we didn't wear ties or blazers.....loved it.

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 09:23:25

When my DS's school brought in clip ons, they said it was because kids had been varying the number of stripes they had visible - not the four they should have, but five, or even (shock, horror) three and a half! shock

It's not about 'breaking the rules' IMO; it's about enforcing power - including petty, ridiculous mis-use of power.

There's no connection between ties and attainment, by the way: the two neighbouring high schools do not have ties, and are rated 'good' by Ofsted. Ours has just gone into Special Measures. Despite the ties. sad

Flobbadobs Mon 18-Feb-13 09:35:30

Year 7's at DS's school wear clip on ties then from year 8 they wear proper ones. It's a stupid policy, at his old primary school they have an optional tie which many of them wore, not a clip onthough, a normal one! He's perfectly capable of tying one but they're not considered responsible enough until they are 13... It's the only thing that boggles my brain about that school...

Bunfags Mon 18-Feb-13 09:36:11

I know flow4, and these people get paid from the public purse. I think most of us would prefer them to expend their efforts on educating our children, not on concocting Byzantine rules about ties...and they wonder why their pensions are being cut!

Oh I hate the you must always abide by the ridiculously petty school rules at all times point that inevitably comes up in every MN thread about idiotic school rules. It might be a fair point if people actually had a choice over where to send their kids to school. But the choice is entirely illusory. The idea that you 'chose' (the only school your kids met the admissions criteria for) it just used as a way of keeping you in line. Utter bollocks.

I agree it's just petty, arbitrary (mis)use of power for it's own sake. That's something we should teach our children to question and challenge. Because a society of people who just follow The Rules regardless what they are is not at all desirable.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Mon 18-Feb-13 09:50:36

Our local Secondary school, that i and now my little sister is going too, have always had real ties, elf and safety makes you shudder sometimes.

Bunfags Mon 18-Feb-13 09:55:25

I agree it's just petty, arbitrary (mis)use of power for it's own sake. That's something we should teach our children to question and challenge. Because a society of people who just follow The Rules regardless what they are is not at all desirable.

I'm so glad I'm not the only mum who thinks this way!

Theas18 Mon 18-Feb-13 09:57:15

It's all to do with the knot isn't it? Trendy fat Knots/short tie/how many stripes showing (sometimes gang associated too I understand). Rather than 'elf and safety....

DS school has no trouble with ties. It's about the only means of self expression- house tie, school rugby tie, anniversary tie (if you were there in anniversary year) and now ... tada....prefect tie!

Interestingly they don't really have much problem with uniform at the school. Boys comply or near enough to not matter and they don't police heavily. Is it because it's a grammar and the lads want to be there? Dunno.... the girls push the boundaries at the girls school at bit but again not a huge issue.

But comps/non selective academies seem to have endless uniform troubles??

Clip on ties are for punishment at dds school, for those who infringe the number of stripes rule on their normal ties. I like it, nice and simple response to the crime grin

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 11:20:03

Hahahaha Kitten - so by implication, the head teacher at DS's school is punishing everyone! Yes, I'm afraid that's about right. hmm

Pleasedontpassmeby Mon 18-Feb-13 12:46:17

A question for teachers/school management staff:if the punishment/sanction
for infringements of uniform policy(wrong tie/logo on footwear/blue socks instead of black)is to be taught in isolation-what happens when 10/20/50/all the pupils in the school need to be "punished" on the same day?

inkyfingers Mon 18-Feb-13 13:01:49

It avoids the tie at half mast that looks so horrible. I doubt it's health and safety but constantly asking pupils to do their ties up. I agree, it is babyish.

flow4 Mon 18-Feb-13 13:12:22

As parents, we are constantly reminded "Don't sweat the small stuff"... Then our DCs go to school, where teachers sweat so much small stuff that I'm surprised they don't dissolve. No wonder so many of them have nervous breakdowns.

5Foot5 Mon 18-Feb-13 13:34:59

As several others have pointed out - it has nothing to do with safety really it's just to ensure conformity about the sort of knot / length of tie etc.

DDs secondary do this (though she had a real tie at primary) but at least they had the balls to give the real reason why they were applying this policy rather than hide behind bogus Health and Safety excuses.

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