to wonder WTF would it take for people stop eating "meat"

(758 Posts)
ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 18:33:00

Just that really!

ifancyashandy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:34:40

Nothing. I like it and it tastes nice.

ifancyashandy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:35:13

Ps. And I am talking about meat. Not sure what "meat" is.

ClippedPhoenix Wed 13-Feb-13 18:35:14

Why should people stop eating meat? What a stupid thing to post.

If you want to be a veggie then that's your perrogative, the same as it's mine to eat meat.

MrsKeithRichards Wed 13-Feb-13 18:35:49

What's 'meat'?

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 18:36:28

Special meat lovely

Still none the wiser... confused

ifancyashandy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:37:16

Still none the wiser as to what "meat" is.

I will never stop eating meat. I dont think society will ever stop either.

If you want to be vegetarian then thats great for you. But I dont go around asking vegetarians when they will start eating meat so I think YABVVU to even say this.

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 18:37:39

me neither

ifancyashandy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:37:41

Ha! Cross posts. Clearly we are all confused

ThonHoor Wed 13-Feb-13 18:37:41

There is no force powerful enough on this earth to stop me eating steak. And bacon.

FlouncingMintyy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:38:20

I eat meat but not processed "value" meat, so I feel pretty sanguine about it all. I have always said that I would rather be vegetarian or pescatarian than eat non-free range or organic meat and chicken.

aurynne Wed 13-Feb-13 18:38:45

Yes, because nothing has ever happened to people for eating vegetables...

http://seekerblog.com/2012/08/28/dangers-of-organic-produce-the-german-beansprouts-kill-at-least-48-in-2011/

(and organic, to say more...)

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 18:38:58

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Posterofapombear Wed 13-Feb-13 18:39:40

At least it's possible to identify which 'meat' it is albeit not the one it claims to be.

God only knows what they've been putting in your veggie burgers!

Umm... We are supposed to be omnivores, you can't fight nature! ( or the smell of bacon!) as others have said, would a veggie stop being a veggie? smile

Oh is that what the OP's on about? Cheap meat? Why not just say so?

SallyCinnamonandNutmeg Wed 13-Feb-13 18:40:35

I assume OP is referring to stories about illegal horsemeat contamination, tiny traces of pork found in beef meatballs etc etc when she says "meat"... However I probably won't stop eating meat, just be more aware.

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 18:41:17

omg wannabe
"I will never stop eating meat." Why?

SallyCinnamonandNutmeg Wed 13-Feb-13 18:41:32

Lots of cross posts!

SolomanDaisy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:41:53

It's pretty bloody obvious what 'meat' is, if you follow any news.

How is it a stupid thing to ask? Just rudeness at someone wondering a perfectly reasonable thing. BSE didn't put people off. Widespread use of MRM didn't put people off. Horse meat hasn't put people off. I wonder if there is anything that would put people off? It really seems not. A perfectly reasonable question.

Didn't they find meat in Linda Macartney's veggie sausages? (Few years ago now)

grovel Wed 13-Feb-13 18:42:23

If we didn't eat meat we'd have to bury cows and sheep when they die. Not enough room in our graveyards. Better just to eat them IMO.

grin

omg because I like it.

I dont buy low quality processed crap. So I see no issue.

CarlingBlackMabel Wed 13-Feb-13 18:43:59

Admittedly bits of dead jockey in the horseburger might start to make me think twice.

Kyrptonite Wed 13-Feb-13 18:44:17

I like meat. I don't like quorn, tofu or veg much.

So nothing really will stop me eating meat. Think of the millions of poor defenceless broccoli who will suffer if I switched to veg.

Ilovesunflowers Wed 13-Feb-13 18:44:22

I presume you mean the horse/donkey thing. Well I think you'd be a fool to give up meat because of that. Problems happen with food all the time, not just with meat. Glass fragments in baby food, food poisoning from beansprouts etc etc. I used to work for a big supermarket and we'd be contacted regularly to take certain products off the shelves due to one potential danger or another. Problems will always happen with food. The liklihood of these problems affecting you are miniscule.

somedayma Wed 13-Feb-13 18:44:29

Ohhhh yeh...I never thought of that grovel

Soloman it's a reasonable question when you put it like that! But no, it's not necessarily obvious what 'meat' was referring to - I have several veggie friends who refer to Quorn products as 'meat'.

I like meat. So I eat it. End of story really.

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 18:45:35

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AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 18:46:04

I like meat

I like it sooooooooo much, I sleep in a meat bed and bathe in a meat bath

I roll around in it for pleasure, I wear dresses made out of it (am not Lady Gaga)

I paint it, and I caress it, before I eat it

you don't do these things ?

If humans didn't eat meat there would be no cows or sheep - well, not the domesticated breeds anyway.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 18:46:15

I like meat.

I'd eat horse.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Wed 13-Feb-13 18:46:20

I don't think I could eat hedgehog, badger, elephant or tiger so I guess I've given those up

<helpful>

HermioneE Wed 13-Feb-13 18:46:23

Assuming this is about the horse meat scandal OP, did you know they eat horse deliberately in some countries?

And I suggest not watching I'm a Celebrity... Although personally I'd rather eat horse than watch that anyway!!

Kyrptonite Wed 13-Feb-13 18:47:41

I think tiger might taste quite nice. Elephant looks a tad tough however.

grin Bogey.

Someone on a thread the other day asked "why do humans think they have to be the head of all species."

It made me laugh. People are actually going round wondering how we got here!

KB02 Wed 13-Feb-13 18:48:27

Makes me think of 'special stuff '

I will happily eat any kind of meat served up for me. Meat is meat.

Portofino Wed 13-Feb-13 18:49:44

I understood that meat will become a lot more expensive in the future, due to the cost and availabilty of grain etc I foresee that we will all eat a lot less of it than we do now.

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 18:49:49

desinewed meat, horse meat, no tracebility, donkey meat, anymeat, beaten horsemeat,
When would a stomach turn?
Personally I fucked it off in '86 at the start of the BSE crisis. <boak>

wigglesrock Wed 13-Feb-13 18:50:19

See the horse/donkey aspect doesn't bother me, obviously I'd rather it was labelled correctly but I don't see any difference between eating a horse and a cow. I'd rather eat horse than sheep. I quite like sheep.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 18:50:38

I ate a reindeer in Sweden around Christmas time. It was really lovely.

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 18:50:52

Yabvvvu I love meat and will not stop eating it, after all we are omnivores. I don't buy value stuff but good quality meat

SkinnybitchWannabe Wed 13-Feb-13 18:51:15

I always say if sheep, cows, chickens and fish didn't taste so nice I wouldn't eat it.
Im married to a butcher so alwayd get the best cuts cheap.

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 18:51:49

good for you, OP

smashing

now where did I lose that fuck I am supposed to give ?

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Wed 13-Feb-13 18:53:41

I avoid mechanically recovered meat but I like meat meat.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 18:54:20

It dosent stop me eating meat but I don't eat the real rank stuff.

CloudsAndTrees Wed 13-Feb-13 18:54:36

My stomach isn't turned by there being horsemeat in cheap lasagnes and the like because I don't eat that shite anyway.

It's not that hard to only eat good quality meat that hasn't travelled all the way across Europe and had God knows what mixed with it.

I think if the world ran out of meat I might stop eating it, but I can't guarantee that.

Nancy66 Wed 13-Feb-13 18:55:41

You don't think veggie food is contaminated with meat?

Oh yes Pickled, reindeer is nice. I've tried all sorts but I think the best meat I've ever tasted is kangaroo. Unbelievable flavour.

I don't understand why anyone would not want to eat meat. Its apart of a natural diet plus it tastes good.
There is normally an air of smugness about vegetarians which is deeply unappealling.

As others have said, I make smart choices about my food and don't eat processed crap

smile

In answer to the OP, nothing...

I'm really not bothered about the horse thing, I say this as someone who currently has Python and Kangaroo in my freezer.

Sugarice Wed 13-Feb-13 18:57:22

We are all meat eaters in our house and love it.

I like to buy good quality meat, especially a nice piece of beef and yes I would eat horse meat if it tasted good and was free from any nasties.

Now where's that steak tartare I just prepared? wink

ginmakesitallok Wed 13-Feb-13 18:59:08

Now you see the thought of mechanically recovered meat does make me go a bit green - but then again there are few things in this world better than chewing on a lamb chop so I'm confused

Python?! Seriously? Wow, what does it taste like?

BrigitBigKnickers Wed 13-Feb-13 19:01:41

Would you tell a Lion to eat vegetables or a rabbit to eat steak?

We are omnivores! YANBU to not eat meat yourself but VVVVVVVVVU to suggest that others shouldn't.

ginmakesitallok Wed 13-Feb-13 19:02:13

But to answer your question - if you can make a courgette taste like a sausage I might consider it...

Nancy66 Wed 13-Feb-13 19:03:22

I like pointing out my incisor teeth to any militant veggies...they ain't for tearing tofu you know.

ifancyashandy Wed 13-Feb-13 19:04:36

As others have said, nothing will stop me eating meat as I only buy / eat good stuff. Don't eat burgers and the like.

Now, back to my lamb curry (home made).

balia Wed 13-Feb-13 19:05:07

I think we should take a moment to seriously consider the OP's point - I personally am very concerned about the toxicity of the foodchain. I plan to start eating meat that I can be certain is free range and has only been fed a good quality diet that doesn't include other animals.

So I'm going to start eating vegetarians.

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 19:05:37

lol as you where

balia grin

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 19:07:11

sorry as you were! grin

OverlyYappy Wed 13-Feb-13 19:08:22

I am thinking of going back to the days where we grew our own veg in the garden so I know a carrot is a carrot and potato is a potato, I would also like to buy a pig as I adore bacon butties but would get attached to the pig, my only option is butchers or vegetables.

I can't eat chinese food as it might be cat.

No idea how I am going live anymore....

Oh and HAM??? How can anyone not like naice ham?

Butchers for me steak is better there anyway just more ££

Shit now I forgot what the OP was....

KeepingCalmAndPostingNicely Wed 13-Feb-13 19:08:24

Awesome post AF

"good for you, OP

smashing

now where did I lose that fuck I am supposed to give ?"

Let me know if you find that fuck - I think mine might be hiding out with it. grin

I like meat. Good meat isn't cheap, so we have smaller portions now. But ultimately, yum.

absolutmum Wed 13-Feb-13 19:10:14

Can't beat a nice rare steak, or a bacon sandwich!

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 19:10:30

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MarcelineTheVampireQueen Wed 13-Feb-13 19:12:20

You fucked a donkey off in 86,op???shock

That explains everything...

Sailormercury Wed 13-Feb-13 19:12:55

I will never give up meat. Ever.
Morrisey and Russel Brand are vegitarians, I don't really want to be like them.

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 19:14:13

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VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 19:14:14

I keep dipping into the book 'Not on the label'.

It raises questions about a lot of shite that we eat - not just meat.

I've been toying with the idea of vegetarianism for ages,and I have to say that these latest revelations have finally tipped me over into stopping eating meat.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:14:28

Narsty old meat

yuk

hate how specieist humans are, we can dominate, so we will and we will eat other species. Not just that, we will farm animals and treat them appallingly because we can and then put bits of them in a bap with a pickle.

vile

haven't eaten any of it for 30 years

OverlyYappy Wed 13-Feb-13 19:14:45

I am going to start eating vegetarians grin

Now that's an idea...

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 19:14:52

I ate a findus lasagne last week and it gave me the trots. sad

gordyslovesheep Wed 13-Feb-13 19:16:02

nothing will stop me eating BACON

mine is from the free range pig farm down the road - the animals do not look like cows or horses, just happy, sniffy pigs

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 19:16:06

Sailor how about Special meat? aka the League of Gentlemen? lol
Can you handle it?

happybubblebrain Wed 13-Feb-13 19:16:44

I think vegetarians get their smugness from not being murderers.
And being more evolved.
And knowing better.

Nothing will stop the stupid from eating meat, it is a proven fact.
I don't care what they do.

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 19:18:02

Not smug just wondering WTFUG!

sunshine401 Wed 13-Feb-13 19:18:54

It is not really about the fact people have been given horse meat to eat. It is about all the injections that horses are given that are fatal to humans. Now we have been assured that the horse meat used came from horses that had no such injections. But yet we were, in the first place assured that our beef was beef not horse so you know how much is actually true is anyone's guess.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 19:19:52

Bubble - waaaahaaaaahaaaaaa!

As you were.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:20:09

I don't know any smug veggies. All the ones I know go out of their way to apologise for themselves. My dh and dc eat meat (organic only) at least twice a week.

We all make our own choices.

Some of us make the wrong ones of course.

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 19:20:21

Fgging hell would human bushmeat be the brake

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 19:22:34

I eat meat because I haven't evolved as much as vegetarians.

I know lots of lovely vegetarians. In real life.

They are happy to rough it sometimes and visit me in my little cave.

fieldfare Wed 13-Feb-13 19:22:45

More evolved?!
Seriously?

How pompous.

We eat meat. Good quality, locally reared, slaughtered and butchered. I have known the family who run the butchers for 20 years, and I'm very happy to buy our food from them. His wife makes the best steak and ale pie I have ever eaten.

ElenorRigby Wed 13-Feb-13 19:23:39

hully your right i recommended some here used a company called meat mart recently because they wanted good quality meat
<shrug>

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 13-Feb-13 19:25:19

If the lovely Michel Roux couldn't make meal worms into a delicious alternative, I think it'll be a very long time before meat's off the menu chez ER.

AF I found your fuck and sent it to the far side.

HTH.

Also Paul McCartney is a vegetarian and look what it's done for him!

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 19:26:12

I love meat. I love going to my wonderful butchers, and planning on how to cook, and the smells that will be wafting through my house, and the delicious juice I can make gravy with and and ....*drools*.

No, definately not giving that up.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 19:27:22

That's the real question of the day.

Where the fuck is any fuckers fuck?

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 19:27:51

af's a moron and people get what they deserve

brilliant !

I deserve a dress made out of meat ! I insist on it !

Sailormercury Wed 13-Feb-13 19:28:07

I would eat the special stuff. Even more so if Nigella Lawson creates a recipe for it grin

aldiwhore Wed 13-Feb-13 19:28:23

I guess I'm just an omnivore that likes the taste of meat... not all meat.

I don't feel superior to other animals, or veggies, a lion would eat me I suppose, a veggie might lecture me to death (not the nice ones I know).

I wouldn't ever eat quorn, but I adore most veggie food (and most veggies until they turn into twats and call me a murderer - I do not kill my own kind)... with a nice steak on top. Can't help it. I eat a lot less meat than I used to, because decent meat is expensive.

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 19:28:37

I am glad my fuck has been located. I was getting a bit worried about it.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 19:28:43

Horse meat keks.

OTTMummA Wed 13-Feb-13 19:33:18

I am the female version of Ron Swanson. Nothing, NOTHING, can prevent me from eating meat.
Mmmmmmm, meeeeeatt.

aldiwhore Wed 13-Feb-13 19:33:23

My limit is probably piss flap, foreskin and eyelid dog burger with a cat intestine garnish. I probably wouldn't eat that.

KatyPeril Wed 13-Feb-13 19:33:27

I love meat. Quite honestly I'd even try human.

Sailormercury Wed 13-Feb-13 19:33:36

Pork posing pouch for OH perhaps?

bubblebrain (good choice of name btw) your post actually made me laugh. I know lots of vegetarians who are lovely polite people and don't object to me eating meat. Just as I have no objections to them not eating it.

And technically speaking as humans evolved to be omnivorous not eating meat as well as plants could be seen as a backwards step. grin

gordyslovesheep Wed 13-Feb-13 19:34:49

me luv meat <hits self with rock ..retreats to cave>

ChairmanWow Wed 13-Feb-13 19:36:32

Please stop labelling us veggies as smug. The vast majority are, y'know, normal folk going about our daily business and just choosing not to eat certain stuff. I wouldn't dream of telling someone not to eat meat, yet I've had loads of people twatting on at me over the years - 'You'll make yourself ill if you don't get some steak down you', 'Bet you could murder a bacon sarnie', 'I bet you're going to lecture me now aren't you' (erm, nope) and my personal favourite 'Is that why you're so small?'. Yaaaawn.

Seriously, eat horse, cow, dog, whatever. Just leave me to eat my tofu in peace will ya. wink

VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 19:38:18

Tbh if I was really really hungry I'd eat the cat.

But while I've got an element of choice,whether it is meat or veg I like to know (as far as I am able) what chemicals it has been exposed to,whether people or animalshave been exploited or ill treated in its production/delivery,how far it has travelled etc etc.
Personal choice,but I can't help but question what I put in my mouth.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 19:38:41

Totally chairman I know loads if lovely non smug veggies and if course lots of meat eaters than are huge twats.

saycheeeeeese Wed 13-Feb-13 19:39:17

Hmmm steak!

Nothing in the world would put me off meat, top of the food chain and all that.

Surely it was the reason God made it taste sooooo good grin

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:39:45

The combination of anaemically proud smugfuckery and the other listless moaners asking not to be characterised as smug is amusing.

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 19:41:40

I only know 1 really insane veggie, actually vegan. FIL is bonkers. Used to have a go all the time about disgusting meat, used seperate pans to cook his stuff (which is fine BUT he used to really have a strop about having to do so). Even tried to force me to watch an RSPCA video about the awful treatment of cows. He was not impressed when at the end he asked me if I wanted to go veggie. I replied with no, but I'm hungry now so I'm off to Maccy Ds.

Oh but he still eats cheese, wears leather and uses products with animal in. Not a very good vegan! The rest of my veggie friends are respectful of my choices as I am of theirs, and make sure if I cook anything that they can eat it without having to cross examine me. Except FIL. I don't cook for him.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:42:22

what I find amusing is that most veggies have made their choice from conscience, are largely quiet and apologetic about it, and yet STILL have to listen to defensive bollocks from animal eaters

ArtemisiaGentileschisThumb Wed 13-Feb-13 19:42:45

Quite right chairman I get far more criticism for being veggie than I have ever given out to people who eat meat.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:43:11

And just because (in this country) animal eaters are the majority - it sure don't make them right.

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:44:12

Defensive bollocks taste best sauteed.

Who's defensive? May as well be defensive about respiring oxygen, or being carbon-based.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 13-Feb-13 19:44:45

Why do we attack each other's food choices.
I love meat, my niece is a vegetarian.
Neither of us are wrong.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:45:06

It's because deep deep deep down they know.

Oooo I love my little kitty/ puppy/ hamster etc

But I'm gonna eat bits of a cruelly treated dismembered sheep/cow/pig

It's a difficult ethical contradiction to live with.

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:45:11

I actually cannot believe that Hully is vegesquarian. Has to be a DA/agent provocateur thing going on.

Delayingtactic Wed 13-Feb-13 19:45:28

I will always eat meat. In fact I hope to one day to be able to buy my own land and raise our animals to slaughter. I think t'internet brings out the bitch in a lot of people. I don't know any rabid vegetarians or vegans in real life but on forums they come out in droves. Perhaps it's because they just don't have the energy in real life to be so dogmatic.

TandB Wed 13-Feb-13 19:45:49

I'm vegetarian. I have no objections to any one else eating meat. I will even cook it for DP and the DSs if necessary - although I do hold it at arms length while pulling an exaggerated bleeeurgh face - but that's just because I hate the smell of raw meat.

Where does this place me on the evolutionary scale? Or am I some freakish evolutionary dead-end? [worried]

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:46:12

Don't have pets myself, I get fat if I snack.

KeepingCalmAndPostingNicely Wed 13-Feb-13 19:46:25

Yeah. That's right. You all give a fuck about AF's fuck but who gives a fuck about my fuck? No fucker, that's who.

[sulk]

VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 19:47:23

If people could eat a little less meat even,it'd go a long way towards feeding this world of ours.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:47:28

bruxeur

I am a vegetarian.

I don't like specieism.

Never have.

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 19:47:43

Hully surely it's only an ethical contradiction if you wouldn't also eat your little kitty/puppy/hamster? As far as I'm concerned meat is meat and it's tasty. If I happen to be in Thailand and puppy is on the menu I'll take mine medium rare please.

OverlyYappy Wed 13-Feb-13 19:48:23

In my last job I worked with majority vegetarians, I had been there 2 days, sat down to lunch around a round table with my new colleagues and opened my sandwich prepared the night before whilst they chomped on their vege sushi, only to find I had picked up the wrong lunch box and it was in face 6 chicken breasts!

Mortified is not the word....

They were very nice about it and each gave me a little bit of their sandwiches and sushi, I will never forgot that moment.

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:48:55

Yeah right. You are funny and energetic. This &#8800; veggie.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:48:56

I don' object to people eating meat either (as said dh and dc do) because we all have to make our own decisions. But if I'm honest, I find it distasteful. Although am too polite to say so.

OverlyYappy Wed 13-Feb-13 19:49:34

*fact not face but they were in everyones face blush

don't eat Lidl chicken breast even my cats turn their noses up at it

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:50:17

Good stropzilla, at least that's consistent.

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:50:31

&#8800;

should be the mathematical sign for "does not equal". Obviously this BB doesn't like Word charmaps.

ChoudeBruxelles Wed 13-Feb-13 19:50:34

I like meat - why should I stop eating it?

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:51:58

That is not a question that makes sense, choude.

Why should anyone stop doing anything they like?

Smoking, drinking, eating sugar, buggering choirboys...

ChoudeBruxelles Wed 13-Feb-13 19:52:26

Have eaten horse when I lived in France too - it was ok. Wouldn't go and buy it myself but I was served it at a friends so ate it.

ChoudeBruxelles Wed 13-Feb-13 19:52:58

Have eaten horse when I lived in France too - it was ok. Wouldn't go and buy it myself but I was served it at a friends so ate it.

Greensleeves Wed 13-Feb-13 19:53:57

But Hully there are perfectly sensible answers to those questions

so I suppose Chou wants a answer to hers along similar lines?

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 19:54:12

Yup consistent that's me smile. Unlike DH who, since owning a bunny a few years back no longer lets me cook rabbit stew. Bah.

But I stick by each to their own. I try to buy my meat as ethically as possible and don't mind paying extra for the humane treatment, if that's at all possible. I don't like the suffering caused, and I do think it's an all or nothing deal where you either eat meat or refuse all animal product including butter. That's just me though and I enjoy these things far to much to give them all up. I did try, but failed at chicken kievs.

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:54:27

...breathing, drinking water, existing at all...

All of these things impact negatively on other lifeforms.

I'm pretty sure it's the veggies who are conflicted about their position in the ecosystem.

ChoudeBruxelles Wed 13-Feb-13 19:54:56

Well buggering choirboys is illegal - the others aren't. So tell me why I should stop eating it if I like it?

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:55:32

Or is it just cute, fluffy, multicellular life we're supposed to care about?

The WWf's panda problem writ microscopic? In ketchup?

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 19:55:41

Snorted at buggering choirboys...that escalated quickly didn't it!

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 19:56:38

Don't get offtopic please, choirboy buggering can be discussed on the appropriate thread.

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 19:57:00

Some sef righteous views from the vegetarians. I like meant and will continue to eat it wether we like it or not

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:57:53

I wanted to say the nazis liked murdering Jews but thought it was a bit early in the thread for that

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:58:36

where is the self righteousness, piglet?

Tweasels Wed 13-Feb-13 19:59:00

All carnivores eat other animals. Are the lions wrong to eat gazelles or are the birds wrong to eat worms.

It doesn't feel wrong to me that certain animals are bred to be eaten.

Mistreat animals are a different matter. Tis two seperate things.

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 19:59:19

What the hell has that got to do with eating meat hullyhmm

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 19:59:45

bruxeur, I also think we need to drasticaly reduce the population and be mindful of all other aspects of our ecosystem btw.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:00:32

Would it make it better if I said I was happy to eat hamster/gerbil/puppies, Hully?

Then I could happily eat steak and bacon sarnies without being hypocritical grin

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:00:40

To me, tweasels, we are all equal (all species). I wouldn't like to be bred to be eaten.

Do as you would be done by.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:00:56

yes mary

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:01:30

<peers through fingers nervously waiting for shit to hit fan for Nazi comment>

Vegeeta Wed 13-Feb-13 20:02:11

Personally I blame the meat for being so damned tasty.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:02:39

<wonders why she always ends up arguing with the whole of MN.>

It's me that's odd, isn't it?

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:02:44

x-posted.

That's great then.

I have, in the past eaten worms (by accident), caterpillars (also by accident) and some indescribable shite that could have been anything in a Singapore food market.

So I will happily have fillet steak the next time some rich man takes me to a gourmet restaurant.

Tweasels Wed 13-Feb-13 20:02:54

Fair point Hully, neither would I.

<off to reassess ethical values>

Might finish the Chilli off first though in case I have an epiphany.

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 20:03:01

Most f your posts hully, fine be a vegetarian that's your choice but don't start preaching and being so negative towards meant eaters.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:03:21

good plan Tweasels

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:03:40

carrots are bastards

the orange fuckers

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 20:03:41

Nope, you have the courage of your convictions, you stick by them and have the ability to pick topics that will really get people talking. I quite like your posts!

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 20:04:03

Hully - where is the self righteousness, piglet?

"I think vegetarians get their smugness from not being murderers.
And being more evolved.
And knowing better.

Nothing will stop the stupid from eating meat, it is a proven fact.
I don't care what they do".

How about that bit of cuntishness, from just upthread?

VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 20:04:16

Hully I think you have perfectly valid points.

Stand Firm!

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:04:24

And, whenever I see these threads I think of the fruitarian in Notting Hill, and wonder whether vegetarians are also species-ist. Do carrots feel pain? Should we be stripping baby peas out of their --mothers' arms) pods and freezing them shock.

Basically being at the top of the food chain has so many responsibilities [sigh].

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:05:07

I am giving my views and explaining them as is everyone else, piglet. It's strange (yet not) that you call mine "preaching" because they differ to yours.

And "being so negative" = saying that in my view it is wrong to eat other species. I don't really see how I can say that "positively"

Perhaps you could help?

Vegeeta Wed 13-Feb-13 20:05:13

Flaaaame waaars! I like flames, you can bbq on em.

Also yes, those bastard carrots really have forced their way into our diets haven't they, it was those evil feckers who spread the rumour that you can see in the dark after eating them.

GetOrf Wed 13-Feb-13 20:05:21

lol at hully's epiphany.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:05:27

Good bit of striking out there hmm, not.

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 20:05:49

Thanks bruxeaur I'm on I pad so will take me ages to copy and pasts the relevant bits

usualsuspect Wed 13-Feb-13 20:06:25

Tis a bit goady this thread,

So I won't answer, apart from I just did.

<eats bacon sandwich>

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:06:33

"I think vegetarians get their smugness from not being murderers.
And being more evolved.
And knowing better.

Nothing will stop the stupid from eating meat, it is a proven fact.
I don't care what they do".

One post. And I wouldn't call it "smug," it's just someone's opinion is all.

exexpat Wed 13-Feb-13 20:07:22

It's a bit of a way back in the thread, but recently I keep seeing the argument that human teeth (canines/incisors) mean we are designed to eat meat. Have you ever seen a gorilla's teeth? They are closely related to us and have very scary, carnivorous-looking teeth, but they are completely vegetarian.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:07:37

Gerrof, I not had no epiphany? I've had my views for over 30 years (old)

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:07:52

Personally I am species-ist against cabbage. Particularly boiled cabbage. It should be made illegal due to (a) cooking smell and (b) farting smell.

It is far, far more offensive than eating baby chickens.

Just as a matter of interest, Hully, why did you start on the vegetarian route? I'm asking because dd keeps muttering about going veggie - which is fine by me if going veggie means eating veg, not just omitting meat. She is already anaemic and won't eat leafy green veg, pulses or beans. So a veggie diet for her would be bread, cheese and the occasional potato hmm

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:08:33

I dont saying that you are preaching "Hully" but you are being incredibly patronising.

Who the hell are you to say that my choices are wrong if I chose to eat beef but would turn my nose up at hamster?

Personally I think that vegetarianism is less to do with morals and more to do with superiority, but I dont criticise you for your choices, what gives you the right to criticise mine?

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 20:08:49

Well hully as humans we are omnivores so are designed to eat bth animal and plant, so why the hell should I feel bad. Mabey you shud crirpticse ther animals for eating meat hmm

Gerrof, I not had no epiphany? I've had my views for over 30 years (old)

You have thought yourself odd for that long?

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:09:18

ignore typos, on the ipad

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:09:20

The thing is that NOW we have a choice. We used to gather a bit and kill the (very odd) deer, that was extrememly lean, ran freely and was not pumped full of steroids and antibiotics but hey ho...but NOW we can live perfectly healthily and well without dominating and eating other species and treating them badly. Evolution, gotta love it.

aldiwhore Wed 13-Feb-13 20:09:40

The opinion is stated as fact Hully and is incorrect and offensive. I am a murderer, less evolved, knowing less... I'm stupid. Pretty antagonistic.

Meh. Don't really have a problem with you though. smile Unless you defend that sort of twattery!

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 20:10:04

Exactly bogey,

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:10:14

Now, the people I really don't understand are vegetarians who eat fish. Or vegetarians who eat chicken [baffled]. Or seafood. They are really species-ist.

IMO nothing will stop the terminally dull and stupid from criticising the choirs of others.

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:10:32

Speciesism or whatever the hell it is?! grin

Would you have a go at a lion for being speciesist? (sp?!) No because it is doing what nature designed it to do in order to survive, and guess what....so am I!

CHOICES not choirs. FFS

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:10:42

aldi - I never notice that stuff, it floats overhead, I don't mind what people say and think, I consider what they say and then make my own mind up. It doesn't bother me though.

Tweasels Wed 13-Feb-13 20:10:56

I think that if you think about it hard enough, eating animals isn't a nice thing to do. I likes animals and I think I can block it out and eat the cute little piggies because I live in my own bubble of ignorant denial.

It's the same one that allows me to drink lots of wine and eat too much chocolate. I just ignore the fact that I know it's not the right thing to do.

I am pathetic <weak pathetic face>

So after all that self pity I summise that I am a carnivorous veggie sympathiser.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:12:14

Ah, soz gerrof, am with you now grin

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:12:29

Dragon to be fair, I criticise others choirs all the time. There are some truly AWFUL ones around here grin

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:12:34

hully I would uphold your right to be a vegetarian until my death (from meat-eating-induced cardiac arrest, natch)

but this thread (or at least the OP) is not in the spirit of that...is it now ?

be honest, chuck...I like it when you are honest

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:13:25

Well flip it round. If you animal eaters are perfectly happy and confident in your choices and behaviour, why the hell do you care what one lone vegetarian says??

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:13:51

But a lion isn't species-ist - it will eat any meat, from human to rat.

I think Hully's point is that we all happily eat beef and lamb, but many people (not me) would go bleurgh at eating fluffy kittens and pretty horses.

Personally, I would prefer to eat herbivores - so would be happy with anything from guinea-pig to elephant. I would prefer not to eat carnivores (I don't know why, competitive eating maybe, I will have to think that one through).

And of course, pigs are omnivores and I do like a bit of crackling.

<admits to double standards when it comes to bacon>

GetOrf Wed 13-Feb-13 20:13:52

Nooooo hully - I meant your post "It's me that's odd, isn't it?" grin

Tbh after years of being a committed carnivore, I am quietly attempting to go vegetarian. I try to buy ethical meat but tbh I don't trust that it all is. And I am starting to find it hard to get my head round how animals are slaughtered.

But that's a persona thing, I won't judge others. I said that I was going to try and be meat free to dd and she said 'oh bloody hell' grin

BigBoPeep Wed 13-Feb-13 20:13:59

Actually I found being a veggie & aspiring vegan to be far more of an ethical contradiction, because when you start really learning about food production, you realise that if you think being vegetarian or even vegan means you are not a 'murderer', you are absolutely DREAMING. Thinking that just means you have no idea at all about food production, and no conception of the myriad of products we absolutely rely on that are in some way derived from animals. Just because you don't see it happening in front of your face anymore doesn't mean that our lives aren't still intrinsically linked to our livestock.

If food scares put people off the product involved - tomatoes, watermelons, the nonmeat list is endless - we'd soon run out of stuff to eat. Yes, the system can be shit, but "meat" isn't the issue.

HollyBerryBush Wed 13-Feb-13 20:14:18

It's not about teeth, its about the digestive system. A gorillia might be closely related but a chimpanzee is marginally closer by a million years and its a nasty bugger, practicing infantcide, with the odd warthog thrown in for good measure

HumphreyCobbler Wed 13-Feb-13 20:14:25

I raise my own meat. It has a lovely life. Until I kill it and eat it. (I outsource the killing bit, I must confess). I do agree that meat eaters are very divorced from the reality of eating meat, judging by the comments I often get about the eating of our pigs. Some people comment negatively on how we can possibly eat animals we have known, but they are never the vegetarians grin

GetOrf Wed 13-Feb-13 20:14:43

x posts

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:14:50

the thing is...

meat eaters and non-meat eaters can be completely harmonious in their choices

I have a sausage...you have a carrot

all is well

this OP is upsetting the equilibrium

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:15:13

af - eh? what do you mean? Do you mean the op is goady?

I AGREE WITH IT

<nails colours to the mast and defies the world in a blaze of naked all colours gone glory. Or something>

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:15:47

I dont care what you feel is right for you, but I do take exception to being criticised for my choices when I dont criticise you for yours. That would be the same if we were talking about BF v FF, BLW v Purees or Knickers V Commando! Its called respecting others choices and you seem pathologically unable to do that.

aldiwhore Wed 13-Feb-13 20:15:54

I suppose I don't like to be accused of something I don't believe I am...

NotADragonOfSoup nothing will stop the terminally dull and stupid from criticising the choirs of others - I like this better, sounds far more profound smile

GetOrf Wed 13-Feb-13 20:15:58

My stepson has been vegetarian for years, but he was vegan for about a year and I had no idea how difficult it would be to buy food for. It seems that animal derived products are in bloody everything.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:17:14

Oh, yes, the op is goady. Hully may agree with the op, but that's because Hully is right.

<continues double standards, happily>

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:17:23

despite my attention-seeking posts about rolling around in meat, I actually eat very little of it

and have no issue with a vegetarian lifestyle

I do have issue with someone telling me what I should do though...which is what OP is attempting, by a strange sort of bollocks

Tweasels Wed 13-Feb-13 20:17:51

Seeing as Hully has mentioned the nazi's, I'm going to throw in a BFvFF comparison <I've gone mad>

Meat eaters get all defensive and attack vegetarians because they know deep down that they are probably wrong. Formula feeders do the same to breast feeders.

You wouldn't be defensive if you were 100% behind your argument.

<I am a Goady fucker extrordinnaire>

<runs and hides>

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:19:29

<weeps at tweasels>

But Bogey, I am criticising your choice because I think it the wrong one. Do you want me to pretend I don't? confused

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:19:32

I have to say that I have one major problem with the op. And that's the spelling of eleanor, it's wronger than wrong to even think about typing ElenorRigby.

So for that reason alone, op YABincrediblyU.

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:20:43

mary, I concur with the spelling atrocity

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:20:49

How can we have interesting discussions and learn and think if we don't say what we think and be open to new ideas and thoughts? I have never understood the idea that thinking someone wrong = heinous crime. confused confused

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:21:18

AF, you have described how I feel to a tee. I eat very little meat, once or twice a fortnight at most, but what I do eat I enjoy. My best male friend is vegan and I love having him over for dinner as I like the challenge and he likes being given something other than mushroom risotto (which is even more joyless without parmesan!). I prepare meals that he and meat eating guests can both eat, taking what they want from each dish. No issues at all.

But I refuse to accept that just because someone has deemed their way the only way, that I should automatically say "Oh ok then" and do that!

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:21:32

yy the whole Eleanor thing is simply beyond the pail.

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 20:21:51

Nazis, FFvBF anything else we can compare veggie / non veggie to? Conspiracy v moon landing?

Do you mean cock?

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:22:38

But of course you don't have to bogey. Any more than I have to go and eat some pig encased in some odd condom-like skin thing. Sausage, that's the chap.

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:22:59

Ironically, you are now wrong with that assertion! My choice isnt the wrong one. Its just different to yours.

I dont tell you that I am right and you are wrong regarding meat, I say that I respect your choice to be vegetarian but that it isnt for me.

garlicblocks Wed 13-Feb-13 20:23:05

Yeah, I think it would be more 'good' to not eat any animals that have been killed for the purpose. I don't see any moral advantage to eschewing roadkill, for example, as the thing was dead anyway.

But I'm a carnivorous omnivore and not fussy about whether it's 'meat' or meat. I don't eat fast foods - never have - but I buy reformed 'ham' and even processed 'chicken' if there's nothing else. I don't care if my steak is cow or horse meat. I've eaten horse knowingly, and alligator and other odd-sounding meats.

Gorillas aren't completely 'frutarian'. They eat maggots & things.

I'm keeping a list of MN vegetarians, as they will be the cleanest, tastiest MNers to eat when the zombie apocalypse strikes.

Hully, I think you have perfectly valid pants, too!

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:23:07

Hully, I suspect that thinking someone is wrong = fine. Telling them forcefully that they are wrong, stupid and like nazis = not quite so fine.

Personally, I don't mind. Because I know I'm right, so it doesn't bother me who tells me I'm wrong, I just rise above it [superior]

Tweasels Wed 13-Feb-13 20:23:34

Let's not forget buggering choir boys

BigBoPeep Wed 13-Feb-13 20:24:01

er, 'be a very quiet discussion forum if all the people "100% behind their arguments" didn't feel the need to reply grin bit of a cop-out there....

any of the people who think we have evolved past killing animals know a damn thing about how their vegetables and grains are produced?? hmm you think no life is taken in that process at all? please, do some thinking, or researching, or something. Being veggie is fine by me, but it that is so the wrong reason if that's why you made the decision.

usualsuspect Wed 13-Feb-13 20:24:09

The Op didn't want a sensible discussion though.

Her title was goady. IMVHO.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:24:19

Valid pants? [arf]

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 20:24:29

Laughing at Garlicblocks approving of Hullys pants...

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:24:37

<cries at valid pants>

exexpat Wed 13-Feb-13 20:24:43

Our digestive system can digest anything, including meat, but we don't need meat to survive, like actual carnivores. Being omnivorous means it's our choice what we eat.

I was just pointing out that posts like this

Add message | Report | Message poster Nancy66 Wed 13-Feb-13 19:03:22
I like pointing out my incisor teeth to any militant veggies...they ain't for tearing tofu you know.

are rather meaningless because having incisors doesn't mean that we are carnivores - our teeth are rather more modest than some natural herbivores. In fact I'm pretty sure human teeth would be rather ineffective at ripping apart freshly slaughtered wildebeest or whatever, but that's what you get from millions of years of evolution and the invention of tools, agriculture etc.

I'm not a vegetarian because I can't stand mushroom straganoff!

Vegeeta Wed 13-Feb-13 20:24:56

So the vegetarians, just like food will have eaten plenty of greens so we don't have to? Damned considerate tbh, if I turn to cannibalism, I want a decent organic fed person to munch on.

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:24:57

how about roadkill ?

fair game ?

runs..............

StuntGirl Wed 13-Feb-13 20:25:14

Couldn't give a rat's ass what other people eat. Never understood why people like to get up in arms about other people's diets.

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:25:46

I am a (little nibbly type) carnivore and I love mushroom stroganoff ! grin

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 20:25:49

By being open to new thoughts, do you mean asking for examples and then dismissing those offered BECAUSE I SAY SO LALALALALALALA

?

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:25:59

I know BigBo, but two wrongs do not a right make. And you can't fight all fronts on one thread.

My choice isnt the wrong one. Its just different to yours.

This.

I am bright enough to be able to accept other people's choices are different to mine and to respect those choices.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:26:10

Acksherly, you have a very good point there BigBoPeep.

Veggies are also species-ist - they don't like cows being killed for meat for people to eat. But they don't mind caterpillars and snails being killed to stop them eating lettuces and cabbage.

<ponders>

All humans are animal-murderers. The only difference is size of animal, isn't it?

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:26:30

Imo yes AF but I am wrong, so you're probably better off ignoring me....

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:27:21

come on now, sensible types

OP was a Goady Fucker

do we lose our ability to spot them when personal choice rears it's ugly, ugly head ?

Shirley Knot

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:27:30

I didn't ignore it Bruxeur, I disagreed that it was "smug"

VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 20:27:55

Just to deviate slightly - is it just me or has anyone else noticed that nowadays,as well as being more expensive, mince seems to be far fattier and more pumped with water?

I'd like to think that just avoiding processed meat would be adequate,but I'm afraid any trust I did have in the quality of our meat has disappeared in a puff.

Can't say I've an awful lot of faith in many other foods either,though....

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:28:33

I have never felt the same about roadkill since the Top Gear episode in the US somewhere where they allegedly found a (rotten) cow on the side of the road.

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:28:37

Can we get back to pants?

How is it decided who has valid pants?

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:28:46

maybe it was goady, af, but it's still an interesting discussion, no?

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:00

Cuntish, then.

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:09

I have no faith in food at all any more

I take my calories in liquid form wine

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:12

Nice mince is really expensive.

Reminds me of the minge thread.

Tweasels Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:13

This won't be derailed will it.

I'm trying very hard.

FrankWhippery has found a new bat you know, shall I fetch it

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:14

I laughed my head off when RH said "I'm not peeling it" grin

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:24

I buy my mince at the butchers these days Squeak. He picks up proper meat-shaped meat and puts it through a mincing machine.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:25

garlic's on pants duty. You'll have to have a word with 'er, bogey

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:46

hully, I am still here smile

but mainly to take the piss, it has to be said smile

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:29:56

Why Pickled is nice minge expensive too?

DioneTheDiabolist Wed 13-Feb-13 20:30:35

I stopped eating scallops because I became allergic. They're smart, scallops, damn smart.

But I love flesh. Frog is my favorite and there isn't an animal I wouldn't try. If god didn't want us to eat animals, he shouldn't have made them out of meat.grin

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:30:36

I thought it was fun, anyway. I've gotta go do interesting things with pulses.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:30:54

Are you taking the piss AF shock. I thought this was a serious thread.

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 20:30:54

Is nice minge what you get with valid pants?

Tweasels Wed 13-Feb-13 20:31:00

Can we eat it

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 20:31:07

I'm getting a pet lentil too.

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 20:32:02

What's that fing ?

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 20:33:02

Weak and thready ones, I'm sure.

VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 20:33:06

Yes AF it appears wine is my future.

Ho hum. grin

<vows not to read anything about wine production and its quality/ethics...>

Bogeyface Wed 13-Feb-13 20:33:22

The only interesting thing you can do with pulses is stuff a dead vegetarian with them before putting them on the BBQ!

BigBoPeep Wed 13-Feb-13 20:34:41

That was my biggest issue with being veggie - I was upset cows died, but if I wanted to subsist on veg, the caterpillars and teeny soil life could happily go f&ck itself. Then I realised that if I was subsisting on veg, the cows would become my enemy and at the very least I'd have to fence them out and they'd starve to death. And I wouldnt mind lions stalking my cabbage patch, but what would THEY eat if the cows had all starved to death? So I'd be responsible for pretty much the death of EVERYTHING except my cabbages.

It wasn't a vision I liked.

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:34:47

arf

WorraLiberty Wed 13-Feb-13 20:35:19

Admittedly bits of dead jockey in the horseburger might start to make me think twice.

grin << Snorts >>

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:36:06

hully is there much meat on that rump of yours ?

<eyes gluteals lasciviously>

<salivates>

VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 20:36:37

My butcher has always buggered off home by the time I finish work,*Maryz*.

Busy catching nice fresh cows for the next day I expect.

Seriously,you're right - that's the way to do it!

sudaname Wed 13-Feb-13 20:37:00

Was in a restaurant once with a load of pissed up work colleagues and we'd pre-booked a large table, waiter comes out to check if any vegetarians in the party (set meal). It was met with the reply ' Nah, we've eaten 'em mate ' from one of us, followed by howls of laughter, only made worse and prolonged by the waiters catsbumface.

You had to be there really.

I'll get mi coat.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 20:37:53

Yes, BoPeep, it's very complicated this eating business hmm.

wine is definitely the answer.

ChoudeBruxelles Wed 13-Feb-13 20:37:54

What about if you kill the animal yourself? Is it ok to eat it then? I would be limited to rabbit, trout and pigeon though.

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:39:02

Rabbit ??

I love rabbit

Not had it for years

Yamyoid Wed 13-Feb-13 20:39:03

Isn't the issue more to do with the capitalist pigs (sorry pigs) who are committing fraud?
I will not stop eating meat but might stop eating 'meat' but that's difficult as I can't see us not eating salami, meatballs or sausages.
I'm more annoyed that the money grabbing bastards have done this.
I'd like to be a vegetarian in response but it's not going to happen, however, I will make more of an effort than I already do to eat less meat.

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 20:39:56

I do think a lot of meat eaters are very dismissive of veggies. Went to a restaurant once, and the veggie option (yes, THE. Only 1) was the non veggie roast dinner with the meat taken off, but the meat gravy left on! Not veggie as I already said, but even I didn't go there again after the look that was given by the waiter when we asked if the gravy was vegetarian.

Vegeeta Wed 13-Feb-13 20:39:57

Wasn't Hitler a vegetarian? That would explain the "I'm right and you are a damned infidel who must be excised from humanity" attitude of some of them rofl

PickledInAPearTree Wed 13-Feb-13 20:40:22

I'd eat frankie detori annoying man.

ChoudeBruxelles Wed 13-Feb-13 20:40:25

Dh needs to go shooting anyfucker - I've ran out of rabbit. Lovely slow cooked (its wild so always slow cook as I can't be sure how old it is)

BigBoPeep Wed 13-Feb-13 20:41:10

don't worry, the money grabbing bastards have veg sewn up aswell: spraying foreign peasants with what's banned here, eroding soils aways to nothing, exporting water from countries that really need it over here and so on and so forth...

Comparing eating meat to smoking, drinking and buggering choirboys isn't exactly a fair comparison...
Smoking, drinking (excessively) and buggering choirboys are bad things. Thus implying that eating meat is a bad thing.
It isn't.
It's natural.

The treatment of animals is poor and something that needs to be combated by the government. As consumers we can help by buying more conscientiously.

Animals being treated badly isn't a good reason not to eat meat - just make sure you ethically source your food. It's like saying that you refuse to wear clothes because Primark exploits children in india to make theirs.

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 20:44:36

Oh no TheSeventhHorcrux. I refuse to wear clothes because I enjoy being nekked and freaking out the neighbours.

BigBoPeep Wed 13-Feb-13 20:44:37

sod waiting for the government to do something! The food system will go where the money is, so sponsor the bits you like 3x a day every day and it will HAVE to move that way. Nothing will stop animal/foreign peasant abuse/soil erosion/water exporting quicker then cutting off it's blood (money) supply.

NippyDrips Wed 13-Feb-13 20:44:38

I will stop eating near when veg tastes better. Or at least my ability to cook it improves.

I hate courgette and abourgine and they sneak into all veggie dishes!

AnyFucker Wed 13-Feb-13 20:45:32

veg is great

on the side of my meat

EmmaBemma Wed 13-Feb-13 20:46:53

You don't have to use those prissy little quotation marks. It's still meat, it's just equine and not bovine.

bruxeur Wed 13-Feb-13 20:46:55

Veg is there to soak up the gravy with.

NippyDrips Wed 13-Feb-13 20:51:06

Veg on the side of a roast is great and even roasted veg, but there ends my ability to cook it. If I turned veggie I would be serving up bowls of country veg (carrots, peas & broccoli) for every meal. Not appealing.

Stropzilla now THERE'S an image!

entjournal.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/devil-in-disguise-the-unethical-practices-of-monsanto/

I don't understand how vegetarians can justify their practise with the "ethical" argument and still happily eat dairy products.

At least vegans have cut it all out

Stropzilla Wed 13-Feb-13 20:57:36

Sorry...that's probably enough to put you off eating ANYTHING!

EmmaBemma Wed 13-Feb-13 21:09:25

You've got a good point, Seventh.The cruelty of the dairy industry is absolutely staggering - from an animal welfare point of view, vegetarians haven't got a moral leg to stand on. I should know - I was one!

VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 21:14:12

Is organic milk any better ?

(clutches at straws)

RibenaFiend Wed 13-Feb-13 21:14:36

<clutches pearls> Won't someone PLEASE think of the carrots?!

smile

I'm not sure, squeak, I imagine it has to be somewhat better but at the end of the day cows don't naturally produce milk all of the time so there is some kind of fiddling going on there.
I heard rumours of impregnating cows and then aborting repeatedly to keep the produce up but I have no idea whether that is true or not.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 21:31:34

the continuous milking makes them think they are "bfing" isn't it?

sherazade Wed 13-Feb-13 21:35:40

Once I found glass in my organically bought veggie burgers.
And I love meat.
So there.

VerySmallSqueak Wed 13-Feb-13 21:43:07

So basically when it comes to knowing what is in your milk,organic is better,but when it comes to ill treatment of the cows it matters not.

Can't seem to get over how bloody awful soya milk tastes though.
I even tried almond milk recently - equally bloody awful.

happybubblebrain Wed 13-Feb-13 21:43:12

Actually being a vegan isn't much better than being a vegetarian as animal products are in everything and where you'd least expect them. Such is the cruel world we live in. There is no getting away from them.

Meat is disgusting and that's why I don't want it in my body. You eat it if you like, I don't care what you do.

Meat isn't disgusting. Eating meat doesn't make you disgusting. Equally not eating meat isn't disgusting.

You know what is disgusting? Saying people are stupid, murderers or unevolved because of their dietary choices.

I think what you mean, bubblebrain, is "^I think meat is disgusting^"
To put it that way isn't derogatory to anyone, we would want to infer people are disgusting, would we?

shallweshop Wed 13-Feb-13 21:53:39

Mmmmm love meat - don't eat processed stuff much though - mostly stick to free range/organic. I love food generally and will give most things a try. I love the fact that my kids will also try anything and don't have any issues about any foods. It makes travelling (and life in general) a lot easier and more varied.

happybubblebrain Wed 13-Feb-13 21:58:30

It's bonkers how seriously people take things on here. If people call me smug (based only on their knowledge of what I don't eat) my natural response is to be a smug as I can possibly be just to annoy them.

Meat is disgusting, that's a fact. Have you not seen it being manufactured on the news lately? It's not just my opinion. I've heard hardened steak lovers in the last couple of days say "yuk, it's disgusting". I don't think all meat eaters are disgusting. I know of some perfectly nice ones.

socharlottet Wed 13-Feb-13 22:09:20

'I would rather be vegetarian or pescatarian than eat non-free range or organic meat and chicken. '

and you think that if it has been so easy to pass off horse meat as beef , the meat you have bought marketed as 'free range and organic' always has been ?

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 22:13:45

Nah I love my meat and will continue eating it despite what certain people say about it.

Hullygully Wed 13-Feb-13 22:15:03

piglet - statements like that always make me think of cordelia gummer.

shallweshop Wed 13-Feb-13 22:18:22

Socharlottet - organic meat is fully traceable back to the farm so yes!

Meat is disgusting, that's a fact

No, that is your opinion.

socharlottet Wed 13-Feb-13 22:31:36

shallweshop but not by you!

Supermarkets repackage stuff as organic all the time.

pigletmania Wed 13-Feb-13 22:48:08

Well hully thats how i feel. Yes i agree veg is there to soak up the gravy with a nice bit of meat on the side

BadLad Thu 14-Feb-13 01:10:03

I think vegetarians get their smugness from not being murderers.
And being more evolved.
And knowing better.

Nothing will stop the stupid from eating meat, it is a proven fact.
I don't care what they do.

If only they made judgypants out of leather.

WorraLiberty Thu 14-Feb-13 01:18:40

I'm not sure, squeak, I imagine it has to be somewhat better but at the end of the day cows don't naturally produce milk all of the time so there is some kind of fiddling going on there.
I heard rumours of impregnating cows and then aborting repeatedly to keep the produce up but I have no idea whether that is true or not.

Dairy farming is a cruel thing

They don't abort the calves, they take them away from the cows within 24hrs of them giving birth...leaving some cows to wail (literally) all night for their newborns.

The males will be slaughtered for veal and the females raised to live the same miserable over milked life as their Mothers.

This is why people who claim to be vegetarian due to an animal welfare angle, confuse me totally if they're happy to consume dairy products.

ThisIsANickname Thu 14-Feb-13 01:28:30

WL, that is why I've recently given up dairy products. Knowing how the milk industry is perpetuated actually made me feel absolutely horrified. I couldn't believe that was happening so I could have a glass of milk. I don't even like milk that much. It just didn't seem justifiable to me.

MrsLion Thu 14-Feb-13 06:54:34

It's not just meat, and being a vegetarian does not necessarily protect you from food safety issues or controversy.

For example: a large percentage of the worlds peanuts originate from China - where they've been fertilising the peanut plants for centuries with human excrement.

HollyBerryBush Thu 14-Feb-13 07:02:12

Human waste as fertilkiser , nay nay and thrice nay!

They've been using in the UK for years, so when you go off to your organisc markets, just spare a thought for who has been shitting on your lentils grin

www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Human-waste-used-crop-fertiliser/story-11747379-detail/story.html#axzz2Kr2DX3ix

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/sewage-safe-as-farm-fertiliser-1531329.html

and you think that if it has been so easy to pass off horse meat as beef , the meat you have bought marketed as 'free range and organic' always has been?

The horse meat has been in processed foods. it would be far more difficult to pass off horse in a pure meat item like a roasting joint. I assume it tastes quite different on its own with no their flavourings to mask any taste difference.

The reality is that yo can never be 100% certain where any of your food comes from be it organic carrot or chicken. The vegetables you eat could have been grown with shed loads of iffy chemicals and have "faked" organic credentials.

exoticfruits Thu 14-Feb-13 07:35:40

I agree with NotADragonOFSoup. I get my meat from local suppliers- at the farm shop you can see the pigs outside and the sausages etc inside on the counter. The answer is not to give up meat but to know where it comes from.
A lot of vegetarians are very removed from the food chain and happily eat dairy products without the foggiest bow milk is produced! They have no idea that people who spray cucumbers have to wear protective clothing and breathing apparatus!

WorraLiberty Thu 14-Feb-13 10:36:50

The trouble is, the supermarkets round here have killed off all the local butchers.

My local butchers is now a mosque so the nearest butchers to me is a fairly long bus ride into town...hence the reason I have to rely on in store supermarket butchers.

cortneyfigel95 Thu 14-Feb-13 11:01:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bogeyface Thu 14-Feb-13 11:02:34

Ironic that there should be spam on a thread about not eating meat grin

WorraLiberty Thu 14-Feb-13 11:05:59

Bogey!! grin

sashh Thu 14-Feb-13 11:18:28

I think vegetarians get their smugness from not being murderers.

Actually if you drink milk you are responsible for the death of many calfs. I'll do you a favour then and eat the odd piece of veal.

But then again, acording to certain prolifers I'm a murderer for taking the pill.

piprabbit Thu 14-Feb-13 11:19:13

Most male milk calves aren't slaughtered for veal. They are just slaughtered.

garlicblocks Thu 14-Feb-13 11:43:35

True, Pip, which is why I support the return of veal. It's great that Brits rejected white veal so completely - due to the animal abuse involved in producing it - but pink veal comes from young bulls, whose mothers get to nurse them for at least a few precious months. No farmer likes shooting new-borns. If the market for pink veal recovers, they won't have to.

garlicblocks Thu 14-Feb-13 11:51:50

I know it's been said before, but can I just reiterate that intensive farming for pulses, grains and vegetable oils causes immense human suffering, ecological damage and wildlife extinction?

No matter what your diet or what species you are, eating causes harm to other life forms. It's the food chain, innit. As humans in a developed country, we have the luxury of choosing a diet that fits our circumstances and moral priorities.

Me, I enjoy eating meat and am aware there wouldn't be ANY friendly cattle or charming lambs, if not for livestock farming. My morals would be happier if there were less wastage - if all meat carcasses were skinned for leather, for example - but the fluffikins argument cuts no ice with me because it's illogical.

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 11:52:02

Is there any point in saying that humans beyond the age of 7 shouldn't drink cow's milk and don't need dairy?

If we were all vegetarian we wouldn't keep big artifical herds of cows and milk themn and slaughter their babies.

If we were all vegetarian/dairy free there would be no cows at all.

Anyway, give me butter over hydrogenated fats any day. Then there is cheese...

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 11:54:50

We could keep just a few for our descendants to point and marvel at. Or let the wild breeds come back and roam the prairies.

piprabbit Thu 14-Feb-13 11:56:30

I think if we're killing animals then we should really try to make their lives as good as possible, kill them as humanely as possible and then use as much of the carcasses as possible.

Very little pink veal is sold in supermarkets, nor do they sell much offal. It's so wasteful - similar to throwing away up to 40% of harvested fruit and veggies because it doesn't meet specifications on appearance.

garlicblocks Thu 14-Feb-13 11:57:10

You couldn't let the wild breeds back, Hully - they'd eat all the veg! Then you'd have to resort to killing and/or eating them ... oh, wait grin

stargirl1701 Thu 14-Feb-13 11:57:51

If I couldn't buy locally produced organic meat. I would stop then.

I would happily eat horse though.

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 11:59:46

They don't have veg on prairies, just prairie grass, they're welcome to that. Narsty old prairie grass.

Jux Thu 14-Feb-13 12:00:31

Vegetables have feelings too.

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 12:02:53

vegetables communicate, it has been measured. I don't know if they have what we mean by "feelings"

Maryz Thu 14-Feb-13 12:03:32

But if the entire human population stopped eating meat, it would be necessary to produce a lot more grain/pulses/veg. Because for many people a lot of their calories come from meat and that would need replacing.

So in fact, if everyone went veggie, then veg farming would have to become much more intensive, to supply the necessary quantities.

Of course, what we really need to do is drastically reduce the population of the world, so we can all live on what we can gather from hedgerows etc. But then the problem of birds/small animals eating from hedgegrows would be huge, so we would have to kill the animals eating our food (rabbits etc), and if we kill them we might as well eat them .......

Civilisation could start all over again grin.

Maryz Thu 14-Feb-13 12:04:01

And my convoluted message x-posted with garlic!

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 12:05:31

Mary, I have to be honest and say I know that isn't the case, and I know it's all possible, but I have forgotten the facts and figures and haven't got the time to look up all the detail! I understand anyone that thinks that is an easy get out, but if you are really interested, all the research is out there.

garlicblocks Thu 14-Feb-13 12:07:01

True, Hully! Plants experience spikes of hormone/electrical activity when a neighbouring plant is cut. Some researchers have called it a scream ... <really can't face thinking about this now>

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 12:07:35

I know...

TotallyBS Thu 14-Feb-13 12:07:59

grovel - if people didn't eat meat then farmers wouldn't rear these animals so I'm a bit confused about your comment that we might as well eat these animals since they are just going to get buried anyway.

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 12:09:55

I've just remembered that rearing animals for food uses a lot more land (for grazing) than would be used for grain production.

garlicblocks Thu 14-Feb-13 12:10:51

Good plan, Maryz - kill 90% of humans to make intensive farming unneccesary!!

Worryingly, I know vegans who think it's a good idea. They never seem to consider the implications, not even the logical progression that would lead to killing the creatures that eat food we wanted.

Come to think of it, this has to be the quintessential first-world problem, doesn't it?!

garlicblocks Thu 14-Feb-13 12:13:27

rearing animals for food uses a lot more land (for grazing) than would be used for grain production - Yep, is why meat provides higher food value, gram for gram. The animal's already converted the energy from the plants it ate.

Narsty old prairie grass.

So you are speciesist!

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 12:25:40

Is it (more) okay to eat meat if you don't care about fuzzy wuzzy hamsters and kittens?

I mean if I am fine with eating kittens then am I more or less morally reprehensible?

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 12:26:59

you are consistent yet sadly revolting

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 12:27:39

I worry a lot about cows. Clearly a lot of cows have lead reasonable lives involving grass, farting, shitting etc. that they would not have done if humans didn't find them tasty.

So if we can kill the animals humanely (not saying we do atm) then isn't some life better than none?

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 12:31:29

who can say? the cow? us?

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 12:31:32

I am actually fine with eating anything...insects, kittens, those fish stick things that could essentially be anything....even vegetables sometimes.

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 12:32:46

you are consigning a lot of proto-cows to non-existence by advocating vegetarianism...don't you think you should decide if that is morally sound first?

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 12:35:04

I think it is.

What is the controversy about Veal really about? Is it just that the calves are so young?

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 12:56:35

hully So you think it is better that cow never lived than that it should live, be killed humanely and then eaten?

Sorry, just read Worras post and answered my own question.

veganvenelope Thu 14-Feb-13 12:59:53

I presume the reason she put 'meat' in inverted commas is because what you are actually eating is the chopped up muscle and connective tissue of a murdered animal. Mm, nice.

I think the answer to your question OP is sadly contained within the replies on this thread. Some/many people are too stupid, greedy and selfish to ever stop eating meat.

Even though the meat industry is the single biggest contributory factor to climate change from all the millions of farm animals who produce toxic gases that harm the environment.

Even though there is absolutely nothing in a meat based diet that cannot be got from vegetables with the exception of vitamin B12 that can be taken in supplement form.

Even though you are contributing to the pain, suffering, and torture of thousands of defenceless animals who have harmed no one. Animals who feel pain, emotion and who want to live. Animals who often suffer horrific, painful deaths just so some selfish fuck who likes the taste of their cooked flesh can shove their bits of their poor chopped up bodies in their mouths.

Even though we are not 'meant' to eat meat - our physiologies resemble those of a herbivore far more closely.

Even though you are eating not only dead animal but all the hormones and crap that their bodies have been pumped with to make them good and fat so you can eat them.

Eating animals is morally wrong. There is no need for it, and it IS disgusting - you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think that taking the dead body of a mistreated animal, cutting it up and cooking it and putting it in YOUR body is anything short of cruel and disgusting.

I won't go into the dairy industry here as this thread is about eating meat, though I am a vegan. It makes me so angry and sad that so many people are too thick and greedy to face up to the horrible and cruel truth behind their food and continue to support the appalling cruelty behind their food - organic, local, it's all inhumane so don't kid yourself that just because it comes from Waitrose it's OK.

I know I'm wasting my words - as I have said, many people are too selfish to change their eating habits. But if you really, really believe that eating meat is OK, I dare you to watch this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=odgldsDVDis
T
hen see if you stand by your dietary choices.

And if you do, by the way, you're a heartless bastard and I despair of you.

Maryz Thu 14-Feb-13 13:02:27

No, wannabe - the controversy about veal is the way the calves are treated.

Even I (who would happily eat guineapigs and horses) would draw the line at veal, expecially the way it's raised in places like France.

I'm in Ireland where I see most cows and sheep having a fairly (relatively) decent life, and I do avoid most processed meat with added dodgy gunge. I hate the idea of barn-reared cattle as much as I hate the idea of battery hens.

Hully, sadly (and pathetically) I don't really want to know the facts and figures. I suspect if we knew the facts and figures there are few things we would eat and few medicines we would take (that's a whole other story, the animals used for pharmaceuticals).

I am far happier to remain ignorant, like 90% of the population.

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 13:02:53

Everything that lives, dies.

If you live a pleasant life and die painlessly, and can have no knowledge of anything beyond your death (assuming there is no cow heaven, or indeed any sort of heaven), then how can that life be ethically wrong with respect to never living at all?

If we make the argument about humans, living in a logans run society of euthanasia at 40 years, does it become ethically wrong to have a child knowing that they will die before their natural life span? Or would each life have positive value in spite of it's early termination?

Maryz Thu 14-Feb-13 13:05:54

I have to say, that it is pretty impressive that we have managed to have a civilised discussion about this, considering the polarised views!

It could have descended into a real bunfight.

ICBINEG, I would be happy for anyone to eat me when I'm dead; I would (double standards again) not be so happy to be killed to be eaten, unless the alternative was my children

Maryz Thu 14-Feb-13 13:06:17

oops, that should read "my children starving, in which case they are welcome to kill and eat me".

ArmyOfPenguins Thu 14-Feb-13 13:08:22

"But if the entire human population stopped eating meat, it would be necessary to produce a lot more grain/pulses/veg. Because for many people a lot of their calories come from meat and that would need replacing."

That's not true, because currently most grains are being fed to that 'meat'. Between 75 & 80 percent of soy goes to cattle for example.

I'm vegan because I don't think we're entitled to breed animals to commodify their reproductive systems and kill them simply for pleasure and profit.

I would eat roadkill if I fancied it, and would kill and eat an animal if I would die otherwise. Neither apply.

juule Thu 14-Feb-13 13:10:30

ICBINEG" then isn't some life better than none?"

I don't understand this. If something is never born then it won't be bothered about having never been born. How is that a consideration for anything?
I can understand once something is born giving it some consideration.
Or are you saying that people would miss its presence if it wasn't born?

ArmyOfPenguins Thu 14-Feb-13 13:11:08

Cross posts with informed people. And that should say between 75 and 90%.

Stropzilla Thu 14-Feb-13 13:15:45

I think vegetarians and vegans are wrong. If they stopped being so silly about eating tasty things, then there would be no need for nasty meat substitutes wasting precious resources on packaging. Everyone should go to their local butchers and pay a fair price for good quality meat that has been well treated , and boycott cheap nasty supermarket crap. We should all demand veal and thereby making it a viable alternative to simply shooting and wasting male milk calves. The dairy industry would improve and we can all have tasty bacon for breakfast. Vegans are the selfish ones. If more people demanded better quality of life for animals that would improve things, not just refusing to buy it which drives people to produce more cheaply so they make more profit.

And as for the environmentally sound argument, I hope you never ever use transport other than foot.

Ok that's a bit more aggressive that what I really feel, which is that everyone is entitled to their opinions but calling meat eaters selfish and stupid is a bit OTT. We are not stupid, we KNOW how meat is processed. Funny how we must listen to veggies and respect their opinions when all meat eaters are evil and thick. That's not respecting my opinion is it? And no, if you don't like it that's just fine but tough. Your opinion is no better than mine just because you think it is. We have different values that's all.

I bet the vegetarians/vegans on this thread will not like being called stupid for their opinions...

Jux Thu 14-Feb-13 13:16:15

Hully who can say? The cow? Us?

you could make that same argument about the feelings of plants grin

TuftyFinch Thu 14-Feb-13 13:18:06

I don't eat meat.

Jux Thu 14-Feb-13 13:19:04

I did read somewhere once that if we didn't farm cows and sheep then they would have become extinct long ago.

Not sure what that adds to any or the arguments on here, but interesting thought (I thought at the time of reading.)

GirlOutNumbered Thu 14-Feb-13 13:20:35

I don't eat anything sold as 'meat'. I eat animals from my butcher that have been allowed to Roam about and be treated nicely. It makes them more tasty!

Interesting first post from veganvenelope

fascicle Thu 14-Feb-13 13:23:02

WTF would it take for people to stop eating 'meat'?

1. It becomes life threateningly risky to eat said 'meat'

2. Cross contamination with human flesh triggers necessary revulsion and turns people off 'meat' (see also 1.)

3. A creature comes along, bumping humans off their elevated position in the food chain. Creature eats humans and a revelation takes place that eating other animals isn't so great after all grin

ArmyOfPenguins Thu 14-Feb-13 13:26:41

If a superior alien species landed here and decided to 'farm' us in similar ways, I doubt we'd appreciate it much.

bigbuttons Thu 14-Feb-13 13:31:55

I eat meat and I have a scarf made of real rabbit fur

Maryz Thu 14-Feb-13 13:36:55

And when I said this thread was civilised, I hadn't read veganvenelope's contribution hmm. I do so hate it when people feel so strongly about topics, but don't have the courage to post their opinions under their usual poster names [sigh]

Vegeeta Thu 14-Feb-13 13:48:01

I think most vegie fanciers are totally decent people.

Then you get the zealot types. The ones who start a crusade on their anti meat agenda. They preach about meat being murder and only buy "vegetarian" shoes, they insist on ruining your bacon butty lunch break by asking how you are enjoying your "murder" sandwich. Can I taste the fear of the poor pig in the meat I'm chewing etc.

I answer with a belch and tell them, its fucking amazing, here try some /shoves butty at vege-freak.

Like I said earlier, for some people their vegie opinions is extremely close to nazi'ism. Hitler was an angry man cause he never got to enjoy a nice salisbury steak....

Hullygully Thu 14-Feb-13 13:51:45

gotta go out ICBINEG, will be back to pursue further

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 13:58:19

cool hully <Im not trying to be an arse - this is a genuinely interesting question to me>

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 14:03:16

As vegevelope said cows want to live...they want to reproduce. If we didn't farm them then neither of those things would be happening.

Is it better to have never lived at all or to live a truncated life?

Are cows aware that they are living under the threat of death? If not then the comparison to human farming is irrelevant. Human's would suffer during life simply from the knowledge that they are on the menu. I haven't seen any suggestion that cows have any concept of past or future or do anything other than live blissfully in the present.

ICBINEG Thu 14-Feb-13 14:06:46

If it is about animal suffering then we move to a system where animals don't suffer, not a system in which animals do not die (clearly impossible anyway as everything dies).

I have tried the vegan thing (inlaws are vegan) and I can't sustain it. Cutting out meat and not dairy is (IMHO) bonkers because it is the dairy and not the meat that is causing the suffering.

juule Thu 14-Feb-13 14:09:50

"Is it better to have never lived at all or to live a truncated life?"

If you've never lived at all, it wouldn't be better or worse. It wouldn't be anything.
But once you are alive, it would probably be better to live a pleasant life that's not truncated.

Stropzilla Thu 14-Feb-13 14:12:52

I've actually watched the video Veganvenelope posted. It's outdated, made by Peta and stars Sir Paul McCartney. It's so badly skewed it's not true and the only reason not to eat meat because of it, is because Macca has put you off your lunch. As far as I can tell, the video is pure propaganda, showcasing only the worst cases of animal abuse. Slaughterhouses and farming have moved on since then, and if anyone wants to link something a bit more subjective and modern, I'll gladly be open to watching it.

SonOfAradia Thu 14-Feb-13 14:25:44

Meat is better for you than soya, which contains a whole raft of nasty chemicals: The Dark Side of Soy(a)

Soya is also just about the most processed food there is - the processes used to turn it into an edible foodstuff (apart form its natural form in tofu) is ridiculously complex and requires a lot of energy. Unfortunately it's used in so many food products these days it's virtually inescapable.

Stropzilla Thu 14-Feb-13 14:27:05

Bleh, Soya gives me horrible migraines. I have a slight dairy intolerance so I keep away from cows milk. Rice milk is the way to go!

ArmyOfPenguins Thu 14-Feb-13 14:37:43

Soy beans in their natural form? It's not tofu! They're edible (when cooked). Like most beans.

Vegeeta Thu 14-Feb-13 14:39:38

If we weren't meant to eat meat, why does it taste do damned good and vegetables invariably just taste bleh?

Yddraigoldragon Thu 14-Feb-13 14:40:04

To me the issue is not about the meat, it is about processing it - and everything else that is processed and manufactured in our current food industry.
Processing is just an opportunity for the item to be altered to make it more palatable, last longer etc - and the main driver is of course cost. If a cheaper ingredient can be added, or some random product used to eke out the more expensive items then so much the better.
This is not limited to meat, it applies to vegetarian and vegan processed foods as well. Would I would like to be confident that all of the additives and fillers are necessary, safe and as described? Of course..
But I am not at all sure that food manufacturers have their eyes on anything apart from the bottom line.

ArmyOfPenguins Thu 14-Feb-13 14:40:24

Is this more recent Strop? www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/abattoirs-supermarkets-cctv-cruelty-welfare

Didn't watch the one upthread.

I think the biggest scandal will be when Findus start making their lasagnes with beef and people start gaining weight due to all the marbled fat beef contains.

You rarely see a fat pony, do you? <<Thellwell cartoons aside>>

I often salivate uncontrollably at the vacuum packed horse meat in my local supermarket. It looks lean and dark and wholesome......

Surely the biggest scandal here is not horse meat itself more the way westerners consume anything processed, genetically modified and injected (and that includes Linda McCartney products which contain more saturates than meat equivalents) without question, like remorseless eating machines.

Isn't the better route to buy good quality products from a reputable source, cook it well and eat a little less of it, whatever that may be?

SonOfAradia Thu 14-Feb-13 14:43:58

Soy beans in their natural form? It's not tofu! They're edible (when cooked). Like most beans.

You're right of course. I'm referring to the highly processed stuff used in a lot of modern foods.

I have found a new side to Hully that I like and respect from this thread.

ArmyOfPenguins Thu 14-Feb-13 14:47:38

The meat industry is unnecessary for our survival and involves abuse. Even 'ethical' meat is questionable - shorten a creature's life because we can and want to, and because humans profit? I would like to tackle the 'demand' side of the industry.
Go vegan! ;)

Stropzilla Thu 14-Feb-13 14:49:14

Thanks for the link. Any acts of animal cruelty are horrifying, so it's good they're going to put CCTV up. I think that relates to my thread up post about rejecting meat not solving much, but demanding better laws to ensure better treatment. Unlawfully obtained CCTV is a crime too however, although not one equal to the mistreatment of animals.

Domjolly Thu 14-Feb-13 14:50:54

When they start putting people in pies op grin

i dont pie ready made things so not worried really vook evey thing from scratch this is not about people needed to go opened toed sandled veggie its about peopel buying chicken cooking it then putting ito a pie themleves

ArmyOfPenguins Thu 14-Feb-13 14:51:43

We can campaign for better treatment in conjunction with cutting down our consumption of all animal products. The fewer that are bred, the better they'll be treated.

sunflowersfollowthesun Thu 14-Feb-13 14:52:17

Isn't it odd how the most aggressive and antagonistic comments have been posted by those who consider themselves to hold the moral highround?

SonOfAradia Thu 14-Feb-13 14:52:46

I agree that the animals should be better treated.

I will not become vegetarian or vegan. Ever.

ArmyOfPenguins Thu 14-Feb-13 14:53:51

As a former extremely carnivorous omnivore - that's what I said.

Stropzilla Thu 14-Feb-13 14:54:52

Army can I ask what changed your mind? Presumably you didn't just wake up one day and go "Meat's crap I'm not eating that again!" but you must have been aware for some time about the production?

Stropzilla Thu 14-Feb-13 14:55:21

I wasn't being flippant there, genuine question.