Colleague made racist remark on Facebook

(260 Posts)
vivizone Tue 12-Feb-13 21:35:23

Keeping the FB theme that's on here today!
Not her first time. I suspect she is a EDL/UKIP supporter. Always with her Daily Mail tucked under her arm.
I just feel so cross. Cross that I know this muppet and cross with myself for not saying anything. Made worse by another colleague 'liking' the comment and replying 'too right, too right'.
We work for a really professional organisation. A very well known org.
Would it be wrong to report it at work? I will delete both of them although the woman who wrote the status is a right loud bully. I am shocked and really disappointed in collg who commented. Quiet as a church mouse and she shares that type of thinking.
Both me and collg who commented on the status are non white if it makes any difference.
Sorry for typos. Typing on phone.

squeakytoy Tue 12-Feb-13 21:36:40

What was the comment?

ilovesooty Tue 12-Feb-13 21:40:24

What does your company's social media policy say?

moondog Tue 12-Feb-13 21:42:09

I wasn't aware that one is policed for being a memeber of UKIP or reading the Daily Mail.
Have FB rules changed?

saintmerryweather Tue 12-Feb-13 21:42:15

post 'what a fucking disgusting thing to say'

quoteunquote Tue 12-Feb-13 21:43:47

take screen shots,

and mention to your superiors that everyone(no names) could do with going on a few courses to help them deal with racism.

and ask them on the FB post if they would both be proud to wear those statements on a t-shirt.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 21:45:20

Moondog could your missing the point be any more spectacular?

gordyslovesheep Tue 12-Feb-13 21:45:43

don't be obtuse Moondog the OP said it was a RACIST remark she objected to not the posters personal politics or news paper preference

take a screen shot, find out the organisations policy - then consider what you want to do next.

moondog Tue 12-Feb-13 21:46:07

Perhaps it could!
I am not clear on issue.

Be really naive and say that you think it's very brave of them to say such things publicly when your employers are so tough on public displays of racism...

(Much as I dislike the Daily Mail, reading it isn't automatically the same as being a member of the EDL)

squeakytoy Tue 12-Feb-13 21:46:48

"I suspect she is a EDL/UKIP supporter. Always with her Daily Mail tucked under her arm."

Why do you suspect? Because she has a DM under her arm??? confused

Dominodonkey Tue 12-Feb-13 21:47:35

Was it actually a racist comment or one on immigration?

YANBU being unreasonable to be cross, unfriend her or call her on it.

Personally unless her post is actually suggesting violence or discrimination on racial grounds I think you are going too far in reporting her to your work.

WhateverTrevor Tue 12-Feb-13 21:47:38

What comment did you put?

manicbmc Tue 12-Feb-13 21:48:06

What Gordy said. Screenshot and report.

Dominodonkey Tue 12-Feb-13 21:48:44

Sorry for double 'being unreasonable!'

squeakytoy Tue 12-Feb-13 21:50:01

I also wonder why you are "friends" with a colleague on FB when you do not like her?? However if your colleague is also non-white, and yet liked the comment, is it not just a case of your own view of this rather than it really being racist?

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 21:50:22

Okay well sorry if I misread you, but the issue is not so much whether reading the Daily Mail or belonging to UKIP are outlawed on FB (loathsome though both these things are they are still quite legal) but whether beliefs that are likely to be at home amongst them make for happy reading on FB and that the OP feels hurt and marginalised by them (as I probably would, although without knowing what they are I obvioulsy can't say for sure.

Vivi YANBU

vivizone Tue 12-Feb-13 21:52:31

I will log on laptop very soon. My fingers hurt typing on BB phone. Will reply with details in a mo

moondog Tue 12-Feb-13 21:53:10

'although without knowing what they are I obvioulsy can't say for sure.'

Quite

LoganMummy Tue 12-Feb-13 21:53:53

One of my colleagues was fired for posting a racist comment on FB. It was done out with working hours, not connected to the company but as they had listed our company on their profile as where they worked our (very strict) social media use policy meant they lost their job.

If you feel that strongly then check your company's policy.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 21:58:19

'although without knowing what they are I obvioulsy can't say for sure.'

quite

sheesh Moondog you've done it again. I was just trying to be a bit open there...if the remark was racist I would have found it offensive...it's just for the purposes of fairness I was trying to allow for the possibility that I might not have felt marginalised....oh forget it....'Gordy' used the word obtuse....seems fair enough to me!

Southeastdweller Tue 12-Feb-13 21:58:24

Oh yes, screenshot everything and report. Hope she gets screwed over.

Honestly, how thick are some people to do crap like this on Facebook?! They deserve everything they get.

LalyRawr Tue 12-Feb-13 22:00:15

My company also has a really strict social media policy. Basically anything you post on social media you should be willing to say to any customer who walks through the door.

People have been disciplined/fired for racist comments, insulting posts towards managers/customers/colleagues and the like.

My profile is on the highest privacy setting. Even if you search my exact name you cannot find me, I have only the colleagues I count as friends added and defiantly no managers.

Find out what your policy is and decide wether the comment is deserving of reporting to HR/management.

annie11 Tue 12-Feb-13 22:01:59

Snap, a couple of people I thought of as fairly good friends have shared offensive/ racist stuff on FB recently. I am a ( legal) immigrant who has always worked and paid taxes, so it really got my back up. I messaged them both, got an apology from one saying it was " bad humor", and nothing off the other.

Not sure if it's reportable, suppose as long as those people are not out with their pitchforks they are entitled to their opinions. Shame that some people believe everything Daily Fail and Nick Griffin say without questioning

Sorry to get on my soapbox, this is an issue close to my heart...

HoHoHoNoYouDont Tue 12-Feb-13 22:03:25

Thinking along the lines of Squeaky's last comment.

moondog Tue 12-Feb-13 22:04:55

Indeed. If your initial response is to liquidise the person who made these remarks, does it make you any better than her or him? A reasoned attempt to explain offence caused is surely a better course of action than 'screwing someone over'

If the profile is linked to the company (eg "works at") then a racist remark can be considered to bring the company into disrepute.

I guess it depends slightly on the nature of the company. If it is say a law firm specialising in equality legislation then it would be hugely damaging; if a clock factory then less so.

Commenting on the post "this is just untrue" might be a decent starting point, if it is one of those ghastly chain post things like the faked "immigrant benefits" leaflet.

Catmint Tue 12-Feb-13 22:06:31

Agree with the posts that say that you should find out what your org's social media policy is.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:08:19

Squeaky and HoHoHo...I don't want to second guess OP but I suspect she gave the info regarding the fact that she and one colleague are non white so as not be accused of drip feeding down the line.

However if your colleague is also non-white, and yet liked the comment, is it not just a case of your own view of this rather than it really being racist?

Not an unreasonable observation, but a remark does not have to be anti non-white to be racist, surely?

olgaga Tue 12-Feb-13 22:09:26

I wouldn't raise the issue with either of them - but I would take screen shots and raise it with the manager.

If it's actually racist, why wouldn't you report it?

Dominodonkey Tue 12-Feb-13 22:11:50

"If it's actually racist, why wouldn't you report it?"

Maybe because we don't live in Oceania....

HollyBerryBush Tue 12-Feb-13 22:14:48

I suspect she is a EDL/UKIP supporter. Always with her Daily Mail tucked under her arm.

funniest thing I've read all week on MN

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:15:36

If it's actually racist, why wouldn't you report it?" Maybe because we don't live in Oceania....

But surely calling people on their racism wherever it's found is a good thing?

Having said that, vivi unless your colleagues' FB accounts are actually linked to your place of work (in which case I think you should report them) I would do nothing other than delete them on FB and give them a very wide berth in real life too

vivizone Tue 12-Feb-13 22:16:16

The comment: 'in a crowded bus. Don't recognise this country any more. The smell is repugnant. I am sitting next to a Muslim guy with a large rucksack. I can honestly say I am scared in case bus blows up! thinking of getting off the next stop'

Comment: 'Too right, too right'.

Have just checked again and colleague who commented has made another comment of 'Hope you got home safe' blah blah.

grovel Tue 12-Feb-13 22:17:31

What did the person say?

I don't know your definition of racism.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:17:42

Oh good grief Vivi that is far worse than I imagined. Effing disgraceful.

squeakytoy Tue 12-Feb-13 22:18:51

Well yes, that is a very immature and racist comment. I wouldnt report it at work though. I would simply post underneath "you are aware that not all muslims are terrorists, and not all terrorists are muslims".. and then defriend her.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:20:26

I am shaking with rage Vivi and not just on your behalf, but on behalf of jsut about evry decent person I know.

If I weren't so bloody lily livered I would be adding some very forthright comments of my own!

vivizone Tue 12-Feb-13 22:21:10

This is not the first time but normally she makes immigration status. The copy and paste ones.

Biggest mistake of mine accepting friend requests from work people.

I didn't comment on her status.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:22:33

I think Squeaky has got it right...but it only addresses one of several incredibly offensive elements.

If your workplace is identifiable through your colleague's account then this is surely a disciplinary matter.

OutragedFromLeeds Tue 12-Feb-13 22:22:42

Shaking with rage?! Really?

Southeastdweller Tue 12-Feb-13 22:23:04

moondog Why shouldn't she get screwed over?!

fridgepants Tue 12-Feb-13 22:23:28

That's...ignorant in both senses of the word. Why would you think posting that in a public place - which Facebook essentially is if it contains your real name and place of work - is remotely a good idea?

BluelightsAndSirens Tue 12-Feb-13 22:23:30

For a start I would delete her and the other colleague immediately and then think about what you want to do.

Dominodonkey Tue 12-Feb-13 22:23:50

"But surely calling people on their racism wherever it's found is a good thing?" - Yes, but calling someone on it is not the same as running to the boss about something in her personal life.

Yes it's offensive but actually she is entitled to her (racist and offensive) opinion. I really don't know what you would be reporting her at work for unless for the fact that she is clearly incredibly stupid and thus incapable of doing her job properly....

Either call her on it or defriend and ignore.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:24:30

Outraged...yes, really and literally shaking with rage. Any good reason why I shouldn't be?

Southeastdweller Tue 12-Feb-13 22:25:31

Screenshot before you defriend her, obviously, if you choose to.

vivizone Tue 12-Feb-13 22:26:09

I am ashamed to say it but the thought of being responsible for someone potentially losing their job etc is a bit much for me. I am ashamed to say I won't report it at work. She has young children.

I have no respect for her. The colleague who commented to her post has probably wowed me more.

I feel ashamed I haven't got a backbone. I am normally quite detached and can get on with it.

gordyslovesheep Tue 12-Feb-13 22:26:46

no Domino - which is why people have suggested she actually checks out the organisations social media policy and seek advice?

If she is working for an organisation that requires staff to treat people equally and respect diversity her views are worrying

OutragedFromLeeds Tue 12-Feb-13 22:27:18

...because there are so many example of crap like that on facebook you must be constantly shaking with rage?! Not to mention all the far, far worse things that people say and do. It seems a strong reaction to something an idiot you don't know posted on FB.

Perhaps get some 'Kalms' or something?

HollyBerryBush Tue 12-Feb-13 22:28:24

People are frightened at the speed of immigration - granted media hype doesnt help much - nonetheless it is a real fear. And yes education or lack of is a quite a part of the root of it.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:28:33

"But surely calling people on their racism wherever it's found is a good thing?" - Yes, but calling someone on it is not the same as running to the boss about something in her personal life.

Yes I agree, which is why I would only recommend it if the workplace is identified/identifiable. I run a small business and in fact I am not friends with any of our employees on FB, but our policy of not showing us up with contentious/inflammatory remarks is well documented (and accepted!). It may be a staff member's personal point of view but if made in the workplace it can be deemed to be management's opinion too!

Southeastdweller Tue 12-Feb-13 22:28:53

Are you going to say something to this low-life, then?

claig Tue 12-Feb-13 22:32:43

'I am ashamed to say it but the thought of being responsible for someone potentially losing their job etc is a bit much for me. I am ashamed to say I won't report it at work. She has young children.'

I think you are right here. I couldn't live with my conscience if I got somebody sacked for saying something I objected to.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:33:15

*...because there are so many example of crap like that on facebook you must be constantly shaking with rage?! Not to mention all the far, far worse things that people say and do. It seems a strong reaction to something an idiot you don't know posted on FB.
Perhaps get some 'Kalms' or something? *

How ridiculous. Perhaps I am really lucky with my FB friends but I have never come across anything like it on my feeds! And yes people do far worse things, but surely the remarks here are about as offensive as you can get, particularly within the context of racial stereotyping. But yes, the person saying it was clearly an idiot, I'll give you that.

hermioneweasley Tue 12-Feb-13 22:34:01

I doubt she'd be sacked for that, but would probably get a warning and would hopefully think twice about posting poisonous racist comments on FB, and fewer of those can only be a good thing.

KeepingCalmAndPostingNicely Tue 12-Feb-13 22:35:54

shock at the 'shaking with rage' person. Really? But - really? Dear me - talk about dramatic!

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:36:25

Don't be ashamed Vivi....there are far far worse things you can say or do than not want to land someone in it.

As I've hinted, I would probably do the same. But let's be clear. If you (or anyone else at work) were to report her and she lost her job, the responsibility would be hers>

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:39:30

at the 'shaking with rage' person. Really? But - really? Dear me - talk about dramatic!

Oh for pete's sake..it is not my intention to be dramatic, but surely I cannot be the only person here who is sickened and furious that someone can think it is okay to spout nonsense like this. Worthy of a bit more than 'tsk tsk' surely!

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:41:37

And for the pendants solicitous ones amongs you, I guess I am not really physically shaking but my guts are churning/blood is boiling...is that any better?

Goal Tue 12-Feb-13 22:43:06

Shaking with rage over the fact that someone suggested there was a link between Muslims and people blowing up buses? Really. My reaction is to think they are rather dim.

HollyBerryBush Tue 12-Feb-13 22:43:14

'in a crowded bus. Don't recognise this country any more. The smell is repugnant. I am sitting next to a Muslim guy with a large rucksack. I can honestly say I am scared in case bus blows up! thinking of getting off the next stop'

Fact: buses do stink. Public transport stinks, especially in damp weather when the heaters are on and all the polution, smoke, sweat and over due for dry cleaning smells start to evaporate out of clothes.

However that aside. 7/7? remember that? These things do happen. People are allowed to be frightened. No one gets it right all of the time.

the country was in the grip of rucksackophobia at one point.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Tue 12-Feb-13 22:44:02

Worthy of a bit more than 'tsk tsk' surely!. But not to the extent of getting someone fired. The person needs a good telling off, an opportunity to reflect on her actions and to apologise. If she sees no issues with remarks made then yes, it could warrant further action.

Southeastdweller Tue 12-Feb-13 22:45:10

I feel almost the same snowtime. Trash like her make me sick.

KeepingCalmAndPostingNicely Tue 12-Feb-13 22:46:01

Not really, no. Gut churning and boiling innards is for terrible things you know? Crimes against children/animals etc. Violence. Injustice. Repression. Some fuckwit makes a racist quip? Shake your head, strengthen your resolve and do what you can to educate those around you. Having a full on shaking rage fit is OTT and dramatic

Goal Tue 12-Feb-13 22:46:17

Blimey so now we give people a good telling off if we don't agree with them? We do have freedom of thought in this country you know. Her comments are ignorant and moronic, hardly worthy of acknowledgment

ChairmanWow Tue 12-Feb-13 22:47:05

No you're not snowtimelikethepresent. I'm pretty disgusted with that as well, and like you I don't see stuff like this on FB because I'm not friends with EDL-supporting Daily Heil readers. Sounds like she holds some pretty repellent views. I saw one bigoted post from an acquaintance and she was immediately unfriended, but it wasn't in the same league.

At the end of the day it's up to OP whether she reports it. I'd find it hard working with this person but equally she has kids. She could very easily get sacked for this. She has made a racist comment in the public domain.

At the very least I'd be having a word with her.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:49:02

Goal

Shaking with rage over the fact that someone suggested there was a link between Muslims and people blowing up buses

Too bloody right I am...violence and terrorism are carried out by all creeds and colours and this kind of reductionism is not at all helpful. But in fact I am also angry at the correlation of immigrants and smelling, and on this subject Holly I think you may be being deliberately disingenuous...the remark was clearly aimed at the perceived immigrants on the bus rather than the mass of humanity. And yes Hohoho if you read my posts that is pretty much what I said.

wigornian Tue 12-Feb-13 22:49:30

I must say, UKIP and EDL are hardly the same. Nigel Farage is married to a German, I can't see that going down well with EDL Skinheads. As a "non-White" person myself, whilst I see that companies will want to take an interest in things their staff may do that might reflect badly on them, I have always admired the venerable English tradition of liberty and free speech - which means letting people say things we don't agree with.

FiercePanda Tue 12-Feb-13 22:50:47

Report the comments on Facebook. If you hover your mouse over the top right corner of your colleague's fb status an X will show up (or it should anyway) - click it and report it for racist content. Then delete and block the ignorant twunt, and the colleague who agreed.

Goal Tue 12-Feb-13 22:51:11

I would be appalled that anyone thinks it appropriate to report someone o their employer for something that has nothing to do with their work. Orwellian

claig Tue 12-Feb-13 22:52:32

People on here are stereotyping about EDL/UKIP supporters with their Daily Mails tucked under their arms and "EDL-supporting Daily Heil readers" and she was stereotyping muslims with rucksacks.

People do have repellent views and they don't all think like us, but I don't think in most cases that they should lose their jobs over careless and unconsidered remarks that may not be a true reflection of what they really think.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:52:46

Violence. Injustice. Repression. And which of these elements are missing from racism Calm...though you make a fair enough point with 'Sake your head' etc. As for the rest we shall have to agree to differ, and I shall be grateful that ancient as I am I have not lost my youthful idealism!

ChairmanWow THANK YOU I was almost (but not quite) beginning to doubt myself!

KeepingCalmAndPostingNicely Tue 12-Feb-13 22:53:23

wigornian I salute you. Sense at last. What will all you 'raging shakers' say when we no longer have the freedom to say something that you might find offensive? Quit with the shaking. If people want to say these things better to find out why and try to educate them. If you are able.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:55:22

Calm, do zip it, there's a sweetie.

Goal Tue 12-Feb-13 22:55:23

Snow time - yes indeed but at he moment the biggest terrorism threat face by the uk is from Islamic terrorists sorry if that doesn't suit you. Twenty years ago it would have been IRA. The post is idiotic and moronic as I said but pretending that there isn't a current threat from Islamic terrorism is equally disingenuous. No one is saying that all Muslims are terrorists ( cexcept the idiot on FB) but I would wager that most if not all members of al Qaeda are Muslims!

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 22:56:39

When I say zip it Calm I don't mean generally I just mean with the shaking jibes. I have already addressed that and have said we should agree to differ...is that not sufficient?

Redbindy Tue 12-Feb-13 22:56:56

The fb comment may be crass, but it doesn't actually mention any race. As far as I am aware anyone can be a Muslim.

KeepingCalmAndPostingNicely Tue 12-Feb-13 22:58:21

You want to shut me up too?

<<<hollow laugh>>>

whateveritakes Tue 12-Feb-13 22:58:23

I am also angry at the correlation of immigrants and smelling, and on this subject Holly I think you may be being deliberately disingenuous.

No one mentioned immigrants. Easy it is to make racist assumptions.

Actually if your diet is highly spiced food then yes it clings to your clothes. I got teased at school and TBH they had a point my clothes smelt. Same as the girl who's parents ran the chippy. It doesn't mean anyone is dirty/unclean which would be racist I think.

claig Tue 12-Feb-13 22:59:26

'I have always admired the venerable English tradition of liberty and free speech - which means letting people say things we don't agree with.'

I wonder how much free speech we really have if employers can sack workers for their opinions, however repugnant. Are people free to be idiots?

I am amazed that people can't challenge their employers' decisions to sack them under EU Human Rights Law

'Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society". This right includes the freedom to hold opinions, and to receive and impart information and ideas.

“ Article 10 – Freedom of expression
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

I wonder if anybody has taken their employer to the EU Court over freedom of expression.

It is amazing that even in the United States which is the land of free speech, that the First Amendment is only there to protect people from the government, but not from employers.

www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-03/where-free-speech-goes-to-die-the-workplace

edam Tue 12-Feb-13 22:59:51

Horrible comment. And it's hard to take that people are defending it. FGS this is basic racism/sexism/disablism 101 - just because one person does a bad thing does not make it OK to tar everyone who shares their gender/skin colour/religion/disablity with the same brush. Sheesh.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 23:00:45

sorry if that doesn't suit you

What a strange thing to say...no kind of terrorism suits me! I am not denying that there is a threat of terrorism from a very small minority of Muslim fundamentalists but to extrapolate from that to be afraid of all Muslims is just paln silly. But in any case, that was not the most offensive of the remarks imho.

whateveritakes Tue 12-Feb-13 23:00:51

But it's ok to say Daily Mail readers are all racist?

Goal Tue 12-Feb-13 23:04:19

Well yes as I said the comment was idiotic at least you now seem to acknowledge he source of the view rather than pretending that it was simply a random racist remark from nowhere.

Edam - no one is defending the comment, more the right to make comments that others may disagree with

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 23:04:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goal Tue 12-Feb-13 23:05:39

So what really got you raging? Th idea that an overcrowded bus may smell?

claig Tue 12-Feb-13 23:05:46

snow, she didn't say all muslims, she said a muslim guy with a large rucksack

MonkeySea Tue 12-Feb-13 23:05:54

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 12-Feb-13 23:06:18

snowtime. No, you weren't mistaken. Anyone who thinks otherwise is thick or a stirrer frankly

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 12-Feb-13 23:06:48

claig

She can tell the religion of a person sitting next to her?

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 23:07:36

No, Goal as I have already said (and backed with quotations from the text!!) it is the fact that the idiot (your word) was linking unrecognised human beings with the smell. And to pretend that she was doing otherwise is special pleading to the nth degree.

Redbindy Tue 12-Feb-13 23:07:46

Edam, putting religion in your list doesn't help anything. Everything else you mention is not a matter of choice,believing in sky fairies is.

Goal Tue 12-Feb-13 23:08:36

The idea that for some people the world today is much more multicultural than hey are happy with? Is that what got you angry? Do you not think tat anyone has thOse sorts of thoughts? It's not my view, but I am aware that it is a fairly widespread view.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 23:08:59

No, you weren't mistaken. Anyone who thinks otherwise is thick or a stirrer frankly

Beautifully put Jamie: will you marry me?

claig Tue 12-Feb-13 23:09:17

Jamie, she made a stereotyped assumption, just like some people do about EDL/UKIP Daily Mail readers.

vivizone Tue 12-Feb-13 23:09:41

Yes edam - truly hard that people are defending her comment. I will approach her at work tomorrow (we work in different depts). I may not report her but I am prepared to let her know why I have deleted her.

I have screen shot the status in case she twists it.

I will also approach the second colleague although hardly ever see her. I don't even know where she sits.

I wonder what type of person who can be so comfortable that they can sprout all that ignorance knowing they have 'friends' on FB who are different from them. Like you really just don't care. Not even a thought crosses your mind that your professional career could be ruined. No self awareness at all.

Thanks all.

Redbindy Tue 12-Feb-13 23:09:58

Jamie*
Maybe the Koran was a bit of a give away.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 23:10:25

Goal you are clearly not reading my posts (can't say I balme you!) so I will bid you goodnight.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 12-Feb-13 23:11:00

I'm sure DM readers aren't under any kind of threat by virtue of their reading materials

TheSecondComing Tue 12-Feb-13 23:12:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

vivizone Tue 12-Feb-13 23:12:19

You don't even have to read between the line to know exactly what her comment meant. I would have far more respect for someone just to say 'I agree with her' rather than making excuses of what she could have possibly meant.

She is an idiot. A fool.

claig Tue 12-Feb-13 23:12:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 23:12:58

Good luck tomorrow Vivi. You have shown a lot more graciousness than I would: would you say I wonder what type of person... says it all.

BlogOff Tue 12-Feb-13 23:13:02

What an over reaction.

Comment strongly with your views and then delete her and forget about it.

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 23:14:03

Sorry, that should be WHEN you say....

Time I went to bed. smile

Southeastdweller Tue 12-Feb-13 23:14:49

Amazed that some things have had to be explained so bluntly on here and that some people are defending the FB comments. Amazed and appalled.

Let us now what happens at work. I'm glad you're going to say something to her.

grovel Tue 12-Feb-13 23:17:32

Well, I was in a 7/7 tube and evacuated. My head says "don't be daft" - but in my heart I'm mostly terrified in London. Despite counselling.

whateveritakes Tue 12-Feb-13 23:17:48

Sorry I thought immigrants are people who have recently come to this country for a variety of reasons. As in not British

Ethnically different people on buses may be well established British people who still maintain cultural values from whatever community. I'd imagined that is what the original post was about.

Still think it's a bit off to describe people as immigrants if they are British citizens.

chickensarmpit Tue 12-Feb-13 23:17:52

She can say whatever she wants to even if its not very tasteful. To me she sounds more of an ignorant bell end tha n a racist. Delete her and think no more about it.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Tue 12-Feb-13 23:19:20

grovel such a horrible and terrifying experience. It is understandable you feel that way.

Roseformeplease Tue 12-Feb-13 23:19:43

I would, and have, deleted someone for similar.

But surely the type of stereotyping that sees anyone brown with a rucksack as a terrorist is the same as assuming anyone who reads the Daily Mail or is anti-European integration is a racist?

ravenAK Tue 12-Feb-13 23:20:16

I wouldn't be reporting to work (far too Orwellian).

I think racist tosh & other repellent views should be challenged, not silenced, anyway - so I would probably have posted on her thread.

After which she'd have deleted me. Judging by the last couple of racist wankers I interacted with on FB. They don't like it up 'em...

fridgepants Tue 12-Feb-13 23:21:15

grovel - I'm sorry to hear that but there is a difference between experiencing PTSD and making ignorant remarks. I don;t think anyone would fault you for that - DP was mugged and for a long time afterwards would be afraid near someone similar in appearance/dress at night (and worried it made him racist).

The bomb issue aside, 'don't recognise this country' and talking about the smell (we all know what the poster is trying to imply here, and it isn't BO) is showing an agenda, and a really fucking stupid one to publically declare when you're identified as working for a well-known org.

manicinsomniac Tue 12-Feb-13 23:26:07

I think putting someone at risk of unemployment in the current ecomonic climate is an awful thing to do, unless you have direct proof that they are incompetent in their job.

I would have made a comment though. I wouldn't have defriended because I'd be too interested in seeing what kind of shit would come out of their fingers next!

And I agree that it's important to have free speech, however vile some people might show themselves up to be with it. In fact I think it's better that they do say it. That way you know not to respect or trust them. If they were just thinking these things you might never know.

olgaga Tue 12-Feb-13 23:30:08

We work for a really professional organisation. A very well known org.

One that employs Muslims? Has customers/clients who are Muslims?

grovel Tue 12-Feb-13 23:37:59

My point is simply that integration/understanding/appreciation takes time and that "outrage" at foolish remarks (while understandable) is IMO a mistake. It simply entrenches views.

olgaga Tue 12-Feb-13 23:48:08

I'm afraid I think those views are indefensible.

No decent employer would want someone who holds such views working for them.

SomethingOnce Wed 13-Feb-13 00:29:17

snowtimelikethepresent Tue 12-Feb-13 23:04:48

Are you aware of your use of disablist language?

Personally regardless of how offensive the comment is, if it was said outside of work in non-work time then why on earth would you want to bring the issue into work. What happened to leaving your personal life behind when you step through the doors at work and best not to mix the two.

Her view is her view and many would not agree with her and if you don't then just delete her off facebook and leave it there.

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 01:56:15

What has this persons views got to do with UKIP OP?

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 02:01:30

Just to say though that sitting next to a bearded Muslim looking man on a bus could make someone worry due to this:-
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 02:11:27

Meant to add with a large rucksack, doh!!!

Eliza600 Wed 13-Feb-13 02:23:30

Extremely overdramatic and, if you are intending to report it to your workplace, very Orwellian.
Unfriend the person if you don't agree with his/her opinions.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I'm in my fifties and I can't see anything wrong with the FB status you mention. And there are millions of people (many much younger than me) who feel and think as I do.
Truth is, the England we knew has gone and most of us want it back.

Rhiannon86 Wed 13-Feb-13 02:27:18

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Eliza600 Wed 13-Feb-13 02:28:16

By the way, I'm UKIP and well educated...two degrees and a good job.
If that makes any difference.

We are ALL entitled to an opinion with regard to our country.

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 02:39:34

Oh Eliza600, I agree with you. Prepare for incoming, <dons flack jacket and steel helmet>.

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 02:40:18

Rhiannon, it like witch finding, same mindset.

Eliza600 Wed 13-Feb-13 02:45:11

We're still living in a country with free speech, as far as I know.

Why on earth should peoples' Facebook statuses be scrutinised? Surely the decent thing would be to quietly unfriend that person if one feels offended by such a status, not get all drama-queeny about it?

HesterBurnitall Wed 13-Feb-13 02:52:17

I'm disturbed to see such a robust defence of racism on MN. AIBU is renowned for being robust, but this thread is quite vile.

OP YANBU.

Rhiannon86 Wed 13-Feb-13 02:55:40

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HesterBurnitall Wed 13-Feb-13 03:05:10

Bollocks. The law already allows for people to be dismissed or prosecuted for voicing opinions. People aren't allowed to sexually or racially harass, for example, just by phrasing their abuse as an opinion. Nor is having and expressing an opinion a defence against libel or slander. Opinions are not sacrosanct, you can hold them but you are not always entitled to express them.

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 03:09:40

And this dear reader is why I am so careful about who my facebook friends are.

Rhiannon86 Wed 13-Feb-13 03:13:50

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Tortoiseonthehalfshell Wed 13-Feb-13 03:29:54

So Eliza, your position is that free speech means: one person can say what they want, but it is inappropriate for other people to respond?

Also, those of you claiming to be well educated: can I suggest that you a) read Orwell before calling something "Orwellian", and b) research McCarthyism before drawing that parallel?

Of course people can and should be fired for their opinions, if those opinions are sufficiently hateful and harmful! I absolutely think it appropriate that someone who voices, publically, their assumption that all Muslims are violent terrorists, should not be employed in an organisation where that opinion has consequences.

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 03:42:23

Just ones with large rucksacks on crowded buses, and there is some reasoning behind that fear.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 06:47:15

Somethingonce

Are you aware of your use of disablist language?

I think you must be referring to my use of c****n.

Sheesh, you are absolutely right, what a fucking idiot I am. Many many apologies for offence caused.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 06:49:26

Truth is, the England we knew has gone and most of us want it back.

Speak for yourself Eliza...this may be your (rather unpleasant) truth but it is not THE truth and I don't hold with it for a second.

Why not 'like' this EDL on Facebook, they are trying to get ahead of the other on google and spread the good word of tolerance and respect.

m.facebook.com/englishdiscolovers?id=187655488035282&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Fsearch&_rdr

Southeastdweller Wed 13-Feb-13 06:58:24

No decent employer would want someone who holds such views working for them.

Exactly olga

Good luck today viv if you're reading this.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 07:01:54

btw I have now reported my own post and hope that MNHQ will delete it. Unfortunately I made a really sound point in it so here is the bowdlerized version:

I don't recognise this country anymore; the smell was repugnant

I honestly don't think it is reading too much into it to think the fuckwit odious colleague was talking about immigrants from this. If I am being supersensitivce then I apologise but I would rather be so a million times that make crassly 'ambiguous' remarks of that kind.

ChairmanWow Wed 13-Feb-13 07:28:23

Just ones with large rucksacks on crowded buses, and there is some reasoning behind that fear

No, there is no reasoning behind that fear. That comment is indefensible. This happened over 7 years ago. Are Muslims, or people you think look like Muslims, going to be punished forever because of an atrocity committed by a tiny extremist minority? That's like accusing all white people of being nail bombers because of the Soho nail bomb. A highly suspect view.

As for this perceived perfect England that's disappearing, good. I like living in multicultural Britain.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 07:35:03

ChairmanWow, spot on, again!

SaneAusten Wed 13-Feb-13 08:37:08

OP YADNBU!! I would feel the same but also would double think going to bosses about this. She has young children and getting fired from her job won't change her mind (although it may deter her from being so vocal next time?). It's disheartening how things are at the moment. Have strength against these views, try not to let it affect you and believe that they are the minority. Not you.

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 08:41:17

Oh that's Ok then ChairmanWow, I hadn't heard that AQ had dropped their antipathy to all things western. There was me still thinking that we in the UK are regarded as the Little Satan.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 08:44:33

PessaryPam nothing of what you say detracts one iota from Chairman's point: in fact you pretty much prove it.

And this is where I stop cheerleading for Chairman lest people think I am a scok puppet!

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 13-Feb-13 08:56:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rhiannon86 Wed 13-Feb-13 09:05:59

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snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 09:07:09

Rhiannon

No.

HTH

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 09:12:52

Okay my last was a bit PA so here's my thinking

The statement is based on a fallacy. For one thing, it simply isn't true that the Union Flag gives offence. When hijacked and used as an emblem of racism it does, and rightly so, but when properly used as part of pagentary or, say, the Olympic games, it simply does not.

Secondly, why WOULD benefits offend anyone; they are supposed to be a boon.

Finally there is a complete and utter disconnect between the two parts of the statement, the second is, it seems to me, a complete non sequitur from the first.

gordyslovesheep Wed 13-Feb-13 09:15:45

Truth is, the England we knew has gone and most of us want it back

England was BUILT on immigration - we have had a large African population since Tudor times for starters

you are pining for something that never existed - why not buy a remote ilsand and you can eat roast beef and morris dance in peace

Smudging Wed 13-Feb-13 09:19:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rhiannon86 Wed 13-Feb-13 09:22:10

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Fanjounchained Wed 13-Feb-13 09:25:50

I'd pm or send her a comment making it clear that she's being an offensive c**t to you. It's her opinion and she should be allowed to voice it as should you. Then I'd defriend her. Don't think I would go as far as reporting it at work.

I remember in the last place I worked being astonished at the level of racist comments that were brushed off or laughed off. I met a company director whilst on my lunch break one day and a muslim man walked past us in the street (I concluded this from his dress before anyone asks..). Our director looked at me and laughed saying "oh f**k, here comes Mr Al Qaeda..." I was open mouthed. But this was an office where an arsehole of a colleague asked me if I was on my "rag week" because I was snappy with him one day. Didn't bother to report that either but said I was being snappy because he would a complete di*k.

gordyslovesheep Wed 13-Feb-13 09:32:12

basic info here

you do realise the English are made up of Roman, Norman, Saxon and Celt don't you (Italians, French, Germans Oh MY!) grin

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 13-Feb-13 09:37:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

twitchycurtains Wed 13-Feb-13 09:55:12

I'm disgusted by some of the support the op's racist colleague is getting. I know so many closet racists im rl, and they all come out with the same bullshit, 'I hate what this country has become' followed with 'I'm not racist but...' Fucking disgusting. I hope the op's colleague gets found out and loses her job or gets a warning at the v least. If she wasmycolleague I would have no qualms about reporting the ignorant racist twat.

claig Wed 13-Feb-13 10:00:27

Saint George was Greek.

Turks did not occupy what is now Turkey at that time.

'Saint George (c. 275/281 – 23 April 303) was a Greek who became an officer in the Roman army. His father was the Greek Gerondios from Cappadocia Asia Minor and his mother was the Greek Polychronia from the city Lyda. Lyda was a Greek city from the times of the conquest of Alexander the Great (333 BC), now in Israel. He became an officer in the Roman army in the Guard of Diocletian. He is venerated as a Christian martyr. In hagiography, Saint George is one of the most venerated saints in the Catholic (Western and Eastern Rites), Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, and the Oriental Orthodox churches. He is immortalized in the tale of Saint George and the Dragon and is one of the Fourteen Holy Helpers. His memorial is celebrated on 23 April, and he is regarded as one of the most prominent military saints.'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_George

BonaDea Wed 13-Feb-13 10:09:44

DON'T get involved by PM'ing her. The case law around the extent to which employers can snoop into facebook comments made by their employees is a bit blurred, but essentially if she was discussing work or work related people or matters, it could land her in trouble.

I would 'unfriend' her and if the comments were sufficiently serious you can of course always report to HR. It is then up to them to decide whether it is sufficiently serious or work related to take action against her. Take a screen shot as suggested, it is the best proof.

ErikNorseman Wed 13-Feb-13 11:37:35

Wow. There are a lot of racists, racist apologisers and general cunts on this thread, aren't there!

If you have a job that involves dealing with people and treating them fairly (so almost every type of job possible) and you hold racist/disablist/homophobic views then you are likely to be hampered in carrying out your job fairly. Therefore it is certainly an employer's business if their employees are openly publicising these views online.

Rhiannon86 Wed 13-Feb-13 11:47:05

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BonaDea Wed 13-Feb-13 11:57:47

Rhiannon - not sure I agree with that analysis. Most employers have an equal opps / anti-harassment policy. If they have reasonable evidence that one of their employees is behaving in a manner contrary to such a policy, they may be entitled to take action against them. They have a duty of care to protect all of their employees and if they believe that one employee might abuse or hold racist views about another, they may be perfectly within their rights to take action (subject always to the circumstnaces of course).

A person making publicly racist comments is not going to attract a huge amount of sympathy at an employment tribunal...

Pigsmummy Wed 13-Feb-13 12:20:08

If her FB comments offend you then you have the option to report it, FB treat this seriously or comment with your views or simply unfriend her on FB. Her comments on FB are clearly not the opinion of the organisation that you work for. If her wall is open to the public rather than just her FB friends and she lists her employer then your HR department might talk to her about removing references to your company and/or making her FB private. However FB is a law unto itself (legally bound) so it is unlikey that they are going to bothered to do anything about it. If a member of the general public complains about it (highly unlikey surely?), then they will take the action already stated.

There is also the issue of FB usage, if you and your colleagues are accessing FB on your companies equipment/network then you may be in breach of contract and your IT department can raise an issue to HR. However if accessing via your own device, i.e. Smart Phone not using corporate network/wifi then your IT department won't get involved.

Pigsmummy Wed 13-Feb-13 12:21:10

The exception to the points I raised are if the person in question works for the public sector and the equipment used is owned by a public sector body.

How many of you defending this comment would be scared about sitting next to my white british primary school children on the bus? After all they are muslim and they wear a rucksack?

ChairmanWow Wed 13-Feb-13 12:43:37

Your employer can dismiss you for making inappropriate comments on FB regardless of your privacy settings. These kinds of dismissals are becoming increasingly common but people remain misguidedly of the view that FB is somehow private. Any of your posts can be quoted or reposted by your friends. Don't put anything on FB you wouldn't want your boss to see. And don't post racist bullshit then cry about freedom of speech when you are challenged about it.

Yes it is sad to see a small number of apologists on here, but thankfully the majority of us are balanced and intelligent enought to know racism when we see it and to find it abhorrent.

Rhiannon86 Wed 13-Feb-13 12:48:57

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Pigsmummy Wed 13-Feb-13 12:51:14

ChairmanWow FB isn't Twitter and the law is different. If your wall is exclusive to your FB friends it isn't in the public domain and therefore has nothing to do with your employer. A half decent barrister would easily get such a case dismissed.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 13:04:17

It's quite possible to be anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism without being racist per se.

Classic I'm not a racist but....speak! Technically you may be right but in practice it is very rare to find one without the other (well, in my experience anyway...)

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 13:05:55

I think it's ridiculous that employers can tell you what to think

They can't....nobody can. But it seems to me to be perfectly acceptable to be asked to shut up about it on work time/in work's name.

musicismylife Wed 13-Feb-13 13:06:53

Sorry, probably a bit off topic but, I remember taking my daughter to the park with my ex-partner when she was about four weeks old. We took some sandwiches with us and I was looking forward to spending time with my daughter and my then partner.

We were sat on a bench and this bloke, who happened to be of Indian descent and who happened to have a rucksack, sat next to us. My partner then grabbed my daughter, put her in the buggy, which woke her up, and said, 'we need to move in case we get blown up'. hmm

Needless to say, I stayed put and laughed in amusement as my ex-partner stormed around the park, muttering under his breath, with a flourenscent pink buggy in tow. grin

Another time, we were in a pub. Some guy called me a N*gger. Ex-partner hit him.

After three years of being with this moron, I realised that his attitude was 'as and when it suits'.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 13:08:37

And finally, Rhiannon there is a world of difference between reasoned debate and the offensive/ hysterical tripe as posted by Vivi's colleague.

Narked Wed 13-Feb-13 13:11:13

Report her if she's broken the social media policy.

thereonthestair Wed 13-Feb-13 13:13:16

It's quite possible to be anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism without being racist per se.

Maybe it is (but I doubt it on multicultural) however the comment on FB was racist. As a lawyer I would certainly expect that questions would be asked about employees posting the comment. They may or may not lead to dismissal but if employers don't do something about this type of public banter they are in greater difficulties if they received complaints about racist or religious harassment as they can be said to have allowed the culture to exist and pervade the workforce

chicaguapa Wed 13-Feb-13 13:17:24

Wow. There are a lot of racists, racist apologisers and general cunts on this thread, aren't there!

grin

I would 'unfriend' her and if the comments were sufficiently serious you can of course always report to HR. It is then up to them to decide whether it is sufficiently serious or work related to take action against her. Take a screen shot as suggested, it is the best proof.

^ This. You decide on a personal level, and give HR the details and let them decide on a company level.

bigbeniwish Wed 13-Feb-13 13:17:28

So st George was à greek god of sorts?
That would explain Why us brits are so sexy

Eliza600 Wed 13-Feb-13 17:37:26

'It's quite possible to be anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism without being racist per se.'

Agree 100%.
I am both anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism. I would not dream of allowing my opinions to impact upon my working life, however, neither do I pretend to hold politically correct opinions in order to appease my colleagues.

Mumsnet has it's own little world which is (on the whole) leftist and politically correct.
Out there in the real UK you will find millions of people, of all ages, who think as I do.

gordyslovesheep Wed 13-Feb-13 17:41:26

honestly I think that would depend on WHAT you disliked about Immigration and Multiculturalism - if it was all then bloody black people, for example - I would say that's pretty racist

MrsBW Wed 13-Feb-13 17:54:15

So it's ok to label all Daily Mail readers as badge wearing EDL members (and therefore racists) but it's not ok for someone to stereotype a Muslim??

Unless the comment was made a work on company computers, or the comment could clearly be seen to bring the company into disrepute (unlikely, no matter how distasteful), you are being vvu.

If you do report it (and the comment was made in personal time/doesn't bring the company into disrepute) and the HR team do anything, I hope the person making the comments takes action against them and wins.

We can't sack people for their thoughts, no matter how much we disagree with them.

MonkeySea Wed 13-Feb-13 17:58:12

Immigration is bad because we have too many people here. Nothing racist about that.

Multiculturalism is something that rich Western countries are told is a good thing in their own countries, but not when it happens in poor non-Western countries, (when it should preferably be ascribed to colonialism/imperialists/insert-sins-of-the-white-man here), resulting in genocide, churches being burned down, etc.

Eliza600 Wed 13-Feb-13 18:15:50

'honestly I think that would depend on WHAT you disliked about Immigration and Multiculturalism - if it was all then bloody black people, for example - I would say that's pretty racist'

Usual reasons for me:
1. There are too many people here. I realise that there's an argument against that (that we still have enough land etc) but the bottom line is that we need more and more housing to house immigrants and their extended families.
As a result the countryside is being decimated. Foxes are losing their natural habitat etc.
2. The infrastructure cannot cope with the increase in the population. Schools, hospitals etc often at breaking point.
Cost of interpreters paid for by the taxpayer.
Inner city schools where English is not the pupils' first language.
3. 'No go' areas for white people in many cities...yes, it does happen.
4. Beds in sheds. Not nice if you happen to be living next door to it.

Many other reasons too numerous to mention here.

Fanjounchained Wed 13-Feb-13 18:23:00

Immigration is bad because we have too many people here. Nothing racist about that

Beat me to it *Monkey"....I'm in the West of Scotland.

There are too many people here. I realise that there's an argument against that (that we still have enough land etc) but the bottom line is that we need more and more housing to house immigrants and their extended families

Also agree with this Eliza....in the same way that I've seen people on here flamed for saying they want to have more kids despite the fact their finances won't allow it, why let however many more thousands of people into a country where those already living (legally or otherwise) are stretching public resources to their limit ?

Fanjounchained Wed 13-Feb-13 18:23:46

...my West of Scotland comment was completely unrelated to my point...oops !

MonkeySea Wed 13-Feb-13 18:30:40

It seems like a big con to me. Any talk about immigration is suppressed, and then the powers that be admit millions in the last decade or so.

Who voted for it? Not me.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 18:44:41

We can't sack people for their thoughts

[sigh] no we've been over this. But you can discipline them for their words and actions whjere these impact negatively on colleagues/clients and theor own ability to do the job.

Out there in the real UK you will find millions of people, of all ages, who think as I do

And fortunately millions don't, so what's your point?

GrowSomeCress Wed 13-Feb-13 19:35:34

Nasty comment but not worth reporting

I'm always a bit alarmed when people say MN is "leftist" or "socialist" or "liberal", because I came here from Babycentre, and by comparison MN is Tory HQ.

ChairmanWow Wed 13-Feb-13 19:43:02

No go' areas for white people in many cities...yes, it does happen.

Name them. None here in Manchester. I've seen similar claims made in BNP literature that the scumbags sometimes post through my door. Scare tactics.

Shelly32 Wed 13-Feb-13 19:48:35

I have to say, I lived in London ten years ago and there was this one restaurant, an Eritrean one, where my flatmates felt uncomfortable. I'm mixed race (not African/Eritrean), took a boyfriend (white) (Hating all this colour reference by the way!) and didn't notice any issues. I wonder whether some people feel a 'no go' area is just a place where THEY don't feel comfortable because it's not familiar...

MrsBW Wed 13-Feb-13 19:50:23

snowtime I think that comment was heinous. But (and I haven't read every single post on this thread so this is a genuine question) how does that comment impact someone negatively? Was their colleague on the bus? Do they feel intimidated?

The other day I said 'ooh, is that a good idea?' To a colleague about to open a can of 'full fat' coke. Another colleague was utterly offended that I'd implied that person was overweight. They got told to butt out - the colleague with the come and I had a conversation just before about the sugar content in fizzy drinks.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The world would be a far simpler place if people stopped getting offended on behalf of others and instead concentrated on what offended them.

MrsBW Wed 13-Feb-13 19:53:44

With the coke not come!

Southeastdweller Wed 13-Feb-13 19:58:12

No go' areas for white people in many cities...yes, it does happen.

eliza Really? What kind of bubble do you live in? You are talking utter shite.

snowtimelikethepresent Wed 13-Feb-13 20:00:30

Hi BW....my comments were not specifically about the OP's colleagues FB entry (though it was, as you say, heinous) but about any remark that is racist or similarly offensive. If people have these thoughts then I guess there is nothing that can be done to stop them but the law can and should make it difficult for them to act on them

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The world would be a far simpler place if people stopped getting offended on behalf of others and instead concentrated on what offended them

I could not disagree more on this point. How awful only to be bothered about one's own feelings and interests. And this would seem as good a time as any to say that nothing on this thread has affected me directly, I am white and British, yada yada, but I care very much about offence given to others

I wonder whether some people feel a 'no go' area is just a place where THEY don't feel comfortable because it's not familiar...

Shelly, this is an excellent point.

Theicingontop Wed 13-Feb-13 20:04:32

This thread is depressing.

MrsBW Wed 13-Feb-13 20:05:56

snow - totally agree as soon as there is any action, the law (or HR), or someone takes offence, there should be action - and therein likes the inherent risk in expressing thoughts. If someone might be offended, you shouldn't do it.

I don't mean people shouldn't care about things that don't concern them. I care about lots of things that don't directly concern me. But unless they affect me directly, I don't get offended by them. Perhaps I'm splitting hairs.

vivizone Wed 13-Feb-13 20:27:38

Quick update. I briefly spoke to her this afternoon

convo (obviously not word for word) .

Me: Can I have a quick word. Found your comment on FB really distasteful. Actually found it racist. I don't share those type of views so have deleted you. I think it's for the best

Her: I was hacked!

Me: Oh Really?. Does B know that? because she left a comment to support your status?

Her: the comment wasn't racist but I never wrote it.

Me: Hope you have informed FB you were hacked as you wouldn't want that type of thing to affect your workplace.

Her: They wouldn't be able to prove anything. I was hacked. I would go the union. Anyway I like Indians, I know a lot of them. (I kid you not, she said this) she went on to mention her kids play with Indian kids all the time.

She made small talk but both of our hearts wasn't in it. I spoke to her quite briefly as it was hard to catch her - we were both busy and it was around lunch time.

Got home and a friend request sent from her. No thanks. She is a liar and a racist and nothing is changing my mind.

Anyway, I want to go back to my FB just being about my family and very close friends. Have learnt a lesson.

Her page appears to be open because although we are no longer 'friends' I can still see her page and comments.

Thanks all.

vivizone Wed 13-Feb-13 20:31:54

Theicingontop - This thread is depressing.

It's not surprising to me. I have been seeing some really dodgy views on mumsnet so kind of expected some of the responses. Saying that, I love this site for the other 50 per cent beautiful, intelligent women who are here. Plus, the owners seem decent!

MrsBW Wed 13-Feb-13 20:38:33

Again with the generalising? Only the people that agree with you are 'beautiful and intelligent?'

I still think the FB comment is heinous, but people in glass houses and all that...

Veritate Wed 13-Feb-13 21:05:56

Out there in the real UK you will find millions of people, of all ages, who think as I do - Racist types always claim that, but never manage to produce any evidence of it. If there really were millions of people who thought like that, they would be voting BNP and UKIP candidates into Parliament and onto councils, but they're not, are they?

'No go' areas for white people in many cities...yes, it does happen. My job takes me to all areas of cities throughout the country and, as a white person, I have never yet found a no go area. Yet another BNP myth.

Southeastdweller Wed 13-Feb-13 21:11:01

Oh my God, she really is even more dense and ignorant than I thought! Having ultra low privacy settings in this day and age?! She's probably never heard of screenshots also.

It would be terrible if someone else reported her based on what she's written, given it's available for all to see. Just heartbreaking...I bet she wouldn't even think to delete it.

You handled it well vivi

MonkeySea Wed 13-Feb-13 21:29:36

Actually Veritate a million people voted for the BNP in 2009 (6% of turnout), and 2 and a half million for UKIP (16.5% of turnout).

It's hardly as if such views are unique to BNP and UKIP though. Didn't Gordon Brown complain about the dreadful bigoted life-long Labour supporter, Gillian Duffy?

Some people never venture out of their ivory towers methinks.

Veritate Wed 13-Feb-13 22:18:16

2009? What election was that? If you mean the 2010 election, the BNP got 564,331 votes (1.9%), and UKIP got 919,546 (3.1%). So, put together, they didn't even manage millions in the plural. Given that the population at the time was over 62 million, that's hardly a ringing endorsement of their views, is it?

I notice not one of the people who supported this remark or is sure that millions think like this has yet explained if they would regard my rucksack wearing white British muslim children as a danger?

If not, at what age do they suddenly morph into a threat to national security; 10, 15, 18, when they are old enough to grow a bumfluff beard and think they are men?

You are not talking about a homogenous set of "others" but about individuals like my husband and children.

MonkeySea Wed 13-Feb-13 22:24:16

No, the 2009 Euro elections, at which 2 BNP MEPs were elected and 13 UKIP (higher share of the vote than labour).

The 2010 general election was run on FPTP, and the minor parties had no chance of getting any seats; at the Euros, using PR, you get a better idea about party support.

Veritate Wed 13-Feb-13 22:26:31

Clearly the racist colleague wasn't genuinely afraid. Otherwise she'd have got the hell out, not sat there posting comments on Facebook. So she can only have done it for intentionally racist reasons.

MonkeySea
The 2010 general election was run on FPTP, and the minor parties had no chance of getting any seats; at the Euros, using PR, you get a better idea about party support.

This is inaccurate because you haven't taken into account the difference in Turnout between 2009 - 34% and 2010 - 65%. The more politically motivated are most likely to turn out for every election e.g. those people who support single issue parties, so are likely to be disproportionately over represented in a low turn out election. The 2010 election is a more accurate reflection of the views of the wider electorate as it contains a much larger sample.

whateveritakes Wed 13-Feb-13 22:38:58

I notice not one of the people who supported this remark or is sure that millions think like this has yet explained if they would regard my rucksack wearing white British muslim children as a danger?

No because children haven't blown anything up. Think people would have been suspicious of an Irish guy with a rucksack a few decades ago. same as some on here might assume a white man reading the daily mail was racist or one reading the Sun was a bit thick. It's all assumptions based on what you know - although I agree you shouldn't judge anyone on appearances.

whatever
It is a very limited set of assumptions though. Peter Sutcliffe was a white man with a beard so do people assume that a white man with a beard sitting next to them is a deadly serial killer? But if it is a vaguely foreign looking bloke with a beard and a rucksack then he is a threat.

Rhiannon86 Wed 13-Feb-13 22:47:07

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

How did the OP's colleague know the bloke was muslim?

whateveritakes Wed 13-Feb-13 22:54:25

Chaz - well you see people on trains looking to see which seat they can share to cause least offense be safest on. Don't see women sitting next to the man with a scruffy beard given a choice.

Yes children have been used as suicide bombers but they weren't white so we can't say much about that on here.

BigAudioDynamite Wed 13-Feb-13 23:18:28

Totally confused that people are actually frightened by Muslim men with rucksacks!! In fact I am every emoticon there is!

shock sad angry and also grin

How the hell do you get around day to day??! Where do you live?? The fucking moon??

MonkeySea Wed 13-Feb-13 23:23:19

"The 2010 election is a more accurate reflection of the views of the wider electorate as it contains a much larger sample."

Well they have conducted accurate surveys of people's views, and they are overwhelmingly want a reduction in immigration:

www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/understanding-immigration-topline-ipsos-mori-september-2011.pdf

A Populus poll asked people to what extent people think Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs create problems in the UK. This was done on a scale of 1 (no problems) to 5 (a lot of problems). 7% said 4 or 5 for Jews, 14% 4 or 5 for Christians, 15% 4 or 5 for Hindus, 15% 4 or 5 for Sikhs, and 52% 4 or 5 for Muslims.

41% of people said they would be more likely to support a party that promised to stop all immigration to the UK (28% opposed)

37% would be more likely to support a party that promised to reduce the number of Muslims in Britain

d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/1l0rswjyqd/Matthew%20Goodwin%20Results%20-%20Far-left_far-right%20120820.pdf

Only 24% agree that being a Muslim is compatible with British life.

conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/01/by-paul-goodmanfollow-paul-on-twitter-earlier-today-sunder-katawala-at-british-future-tweeted-the-full-text-of-sayeeda.html

These simply are not minority views.

Redbindy Wed 13-Feb-13 23:35:06

Monkey
You are posting facts rather than subjective views. That will not go down well with the axe grinders on this thread.
Still not sure why the followers of Islam are considered as a race.

BigAudioDynamite Wed 13-Feb-13 23:47:19

People that think being Muslim is not compatible with British life, generally know nothing about Islam.

It's a moot 'point' anyway, because a lot of British people are Muslim....do they all have split personalities do you think?

katecreate Wed 13-Feb-13 23:48:31

It's quite possible to be anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism without being racist per se.

How on earth can a person be anti-multiculturalism but not racist? Just against different cultures co-existing? Why? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Eliza600 Wed 13-Feb-13 23:51:27

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

gimmecakeandcandy Wed 13-Feb-13 23:51:37

Her comments were idiotic and very ignorant - not sure what you should do though?

I am not 'white' - my parents are immigrants who came here in the 60's from a european country and I do not endorse or share what I am about to say... But I have heard many people who share a very negative view on Muslims so I suspect, unfortunately, her view is more common than we may think

ilovesooty Wed 13-Feb-13 23:54:25

If you have a job that involves dealing with people and treating them fairly (so almost every type of job possible) and you hold racist/disablist/homophobic views then you are likely to be hampered in carrying out your job fairly. Therefore it is certainly an employer's business if their employees are openly publicising these views online

My company holds the Gold Standard in diversity and any employee found to be posting that sort of opinion would certainly be disciplined.

squeakytoy Wed 13-Feb-13 23:55:39

"No go' areas for white people in many cities...yes, it does happen."

"Name them. None here in Manchester"

There are certain areas of Moss Side that you would be foolish to venture into if you are white unless you were with a well known black face. I know this from experience.

You are also not particularly welcome in a few areas of South London if you are white.

Neither of the above are heresy, they are personal experience and fact.

BigAudioDynamite Thu 14-Feb-13 00:07:25

My sister, who is white, lived in moss side for a number of years. All her house mates were white. As were her neighbours on both sides. None of them experienced ant prejudice. It is certainly a view from people outside the area, that it is not welcoming. Many taxi drivers would nor drive her the full way home

BigAudioDynamite Thu 14-Feb-13 00:15:52

eliza what rot you talk. Many British people are Muslim. How is it, you think the 2 are mutually exclusive?

I think you actually mean, you wish Britain didn't tolerate Muslim people, because you don't like it?

This is where all your very thin veils fall off. If your concern was really about over population, and the pressure on the foxes natural habitat hmm you would have no issue with what religion those people are..

And when you realise that the things you know about those religions are not actually true in practice in most cases, that veil slides. And what you are left with is you don't want these people here because they are brown/black, you don't like the way they dress, you don't like the smell of curry and you are frightened of things that you don't know or understand

themaltesecat Thu 14-Feb-13 00:44:06

*HesterBurnitall Wed 13-Feb-13 03:05:10
Bollocks. The law already allows for people to be dismissed or prosecuted for voicing opinions.*

Frightening that someone could rattle this off so dispassionately. Don't you realise what a bloody disgrace this is? And if the next administration imposed the law of an unnamed religious and you, as a woman, had to give up work (and wine), that would be ok, because it was the law?

Rule Britannia.

themaltesecat Thu 14-Feb-13 00:45:56

religion, not religious. Have been both working and at the wine tonight.

I still don't get it maybe I am naive but what you do in your own time outside of work and if you say something/ post something that is not related to work and/or employer than what is the issue - why are people grassed up and sacked?

In this case it is a comment that someone found offensive - fine just delete them, but why think of going into work and making it an issue when the comment does not bring the company into disrepute as there is no related information to link the company to the comment.

I am not saying I agree with a racist remark being made just don't see why something said outside of work time can become a work issue when the comment does not relate back to the employer. Sorry but if I said something and mentioned the company name in the same sentence then I can understand it but anything that doesn't .....

squeakytoy Thu 14-Feb-13 01:35:07

BigAudio..

My (black) friend once took me (white) to her local pub in Moss Side. I was the only white person in there. It was not a pleasant experience. Even the "friendliest" of her mates said "so who the fuck is this then?"...

This was 20 years ago, so I really do hope that times have changed since then.

MonkeySea Thu 14-Feb-13 02:03:46

I love this notion that only white people are racist. It really makes me LOL.

gimmecakeandcandy Thu 14-Feb-13 07:34:59

Of course not only white people are racist! I know many many non whites who are extremely racist, but sometimes it is due to how they are treated, but others because they just are.

BigAudioDynamite Thu 14-Feb-13 07:44:38

Acknowledging that non-white people can be prejudice as well as white people, doesn't alter the anything at all.

Do you need people to state that, to enter into the diacussion?

LilMissSunshine - if you've listed your employer on your profile information and have a public profile, then a Google search for your company might bring up your page as a result.

All the advice is to keep your profile private. I don't know why anybody keeps a public profile nowadays.

Jinsei Thu 14-Feb-13 08:06:31

Am shock at all the racist apologists on this thread. Unbelievable!

And "third world religion"? Seriously?!

I'm so glad I don't have to mix with some of you in RL.

PessaryPam Thu 14-Feb-13 14:12:06

So are we Jinsei

Southeastdweller Thu 14-Feb-13 17:52:52

I love this notion that only white people are racist. It really makes me LOL.

monkey I don't recall reading that moronic notion on here confused

I am astounded by the number of otherwise intelligent people who are racist or racism apologists. It's almost unbelievable, but for the fact that it's here it front of my very eyes.

Seriously, what the actual fuck?

Rhiannon86 Fri 15-Feb-13 13:17:28

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Rhiannon - on the face of it, you're right. But curiously the vast vast majority of "concerns about immigration" are expressed in racist language, without factual foundation.

Seabird72 Fri 15-Feb-13 15:14:19

being racist is loathesome - if you are friends on FB with this person then you should comment on the page and ask why they have said such a thing? She will no doubt have many friends on FB who disagree but were afraid to say so. However UKIP and DM bashing shouldn't come into it. UKIP just want to put limits on immigration by anyone white or black because there haven't been any sensible limitations before by previous governments - DM cannot be considered racist when they campaigned so hard to have Stephen Lawrences's killers brought to justice. You might not agree with UKIP and hate reading the DM but just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean it's ok to claim they're racist. The BNP are racist. Individuals are racist - I am shocked at what some people actually come out with although those that do make racist statements don't usually do it in front of the people they are insulting generally (white or black) and are as nice as pie to the faces of the very people they hate - at least if you know someone is openly racist you can avoid them, not be friend with them on FB and will have a very valid point about not wanting to work with them.

Smudging Sat 16-Feb-13 20:10:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Theicingontop Sat 16-Feb-13 20:49:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whateveritakes Sat 16-Feb-13 21:28:16

I am shocked at what some people actually come out with although those that do make racist statements don't usually do it in front of the people they are insulting generally (white or black) and are as nice as pie to the faces of the very people they hate

Why assume that people who want to argue against religion, multiculturalism or immigration hate . Racists do hate a whole section of society. Doesn't mean other people can't have a view. America has one version of multiculturalism we have another but you can discuss it without hating people.

mystiquesonya Sat 16-Feb-13 23:16:00

Only read up to page 4 but I'm shocked and horrified at how many people are defending the fb post. Disgusting.

olgaga Sat 16-Feb-13 23:23:51

Yes it's really very depressing. I wouldn't hesitate to draw it to the attention of an employer if a colleague of mine expressed views like that on FB or anywhere else.

It reminds me of those "racist rant on the tube/bus/train video" situations - which have caused people to be convicted for race hate crimes.

Having thoughts like that is bad enough. Posting them on FB is as bad as giving voice to them.

Utterly indefensible.

Southeastdweller Sat 16-Feb-13 23:44:42

Though I still think I would report the colleague, I can understand why some people on here, including the OP, would rather just talk to the person. But what is beyond me is those of you who think it's best to ignore it completely. What kind of world would we live in if we all ignored bigots?

FFS.

Bessie123 Sat 16-Feb-13 23:57:03

Can I just say, I think it's easier to be 'politically correct' if you don't live in the middle of a heavily non-white, non-mixed, closed community but are white yourself. There are certain aspects of communities where people tend to be poorer and not well educated that makes them behave in a highly anti-social way and when there is only one colour associated with that behaviour and it is a different one from yours, the issue often becomes about the skin colour, rather than the fucking annoying behaviour.

For example, there are some selfish wankers outside my house just now, making loads of noise and keeping me awake. Their skin is brown and I expect they are Muslim. They are just being ignorant youths but because the only youths anyone sees around here have brown skin, a lot of people (particularly those who are a bit older) would see the problem as the brown skin, rather than the youths living working class lives with not particularly educated parents.

Does that make sense? I think it's difficult to relate to that if you're not living in it because the changes in attitude are imperceptible day by day and what you may once have thought were racist comments become more normalised.

olgaga Sun 17-Feb-13 00:49:34

I grew up on a Council Estate in the middle of London.

Why would someone be more annoyed by the noise of anti-social behaviour from non-white neighbours?

Surely it would be annoying whatever race they were?

Unless in addition to being annoyed by their noise, you felt they shouldn't be there in the first place...

UpUpDown Sun 17-Feb-13 00:57:47

No Bessie, that doesnt make sense. Im working class and I live in a inner city, very diverse/multicultural area. Here, if people are making noise late at night, other people get annoyed because they are making noise. NOT because they are BROWN or MUSLIM. And that, you see, is because WE ARENT RACIST

ravenAK Sun 17-Feb-13 01:17:20

That's only going to work, Bessie, if all/the vast majority of annoying youths are 'brown' & all/the vast majority of annoyed elders are 'not brown'.

& even then, if you weren't racist, then as an annoyed elder you'd be thinking 'bloody kids!' at least as readily as 'bloody brown people!', surely?

I think most people, if asked to identify a factor that might lead an individual to be a noisy selfish wanker late at night, would come up with 'youth', rather than 'brown skin.'

HoHoHoNoYouDont Sun 17-Feb-13 01:28:10

I have to agree slightly with what Bessie says to some extent. I have heard comments from my own neighbours in relation to the amount of 'blacks' moving into the area and how 'it'll soon be all drugs&guns'. This was triggered from seeing a group of youths on the street. Would they have stood out and received the same comments had it been a bunch of white kids -I doubt it.

HesterBurnitall Sun 17-Feb-13 05:04:18

I disagree, HoHo, and would suggest it's triggered by racism based on the fact they've made comments about 'blacks' moving in at all.

Bessie123 Sun 17-Feb-13 08:42:07

Fgs, the problem with mn sometimes is that a lot of you are a bit dim, particularly when you are feeling all self righteous. I was trying to explain, as hohoho recognised that for some people, particularly those who are a bit older, who have seen the area they live in change and become dominated by a different racial group, anti social behaviour can be mixed up with skin colour and becomes in their minds a race issue rather than a behavioural issue. They are not being intentionally racist and on an individual basis are not racist, but because they never see white youths being wankers on the street late at night, they see it as a problem that attaches to the brown-skinned community.

Theicingontop Sun 17-Feb-13 08:42:59

Bessie, I don't think being 'politically correct' comes into it.

If they're wankers, they're wankers. If they nod wisely to themselves and think, "Well they ARE muslims, after all" they are the wankers. The colour of their skin or their mad guess at their religion (how brown is too brown to be a muslim, btw? hmm) shouldn't come into it.

Bessie123 Sun 17-Feb-13 08:45:39

They are not wankers, they (mostly) do not mean to be racist. But they are racist and I expect it happened very slowly and incrementally and they didn't notice it happening.

TotallyBS Sun 17-Feb-13 09:03:28

If the workmate was a cop or teacher or benefits front desk person or similar then I would report her to the boss/supervisor.

But if she is an accounts clerk for example then her views, although abhorrent to most people, are her personal views and have no impact on her job.

I would simply block her but if you want to make your feelings known then defriend her. I certainly wouldn't ruin her career because you and most of us don't like her politics.

Southeastdweller Sun 17-Feb-13 09:18:48

Totally I suggest reading the whole thread.

TotallyBS Sun 17-Feb-13 09:22:08

The friend made a racist post on fb about Muslims. What have I missed South?

Southeastdweller Sun 17-Feb-13 09:26:05

About the people the colleague she's working with and that it's likely that her company would take some kind of action against her views.

TotallyBS Sun 17-Feb-13 10:03:10

South - I went through the thread again.I think people universally regard the comments and the woman as being racist. But I don't see why the people saying it's got nothing to do with work are apologists for racism.

As I said above, if your job is customer facing or you are in a position of trust like a cop or a teacher then those racist comments should be dealt with by the employer.

But that doesn't seem to be the case unless I missed the OP saying that they are teachers for eg.

At work I have people who are homophobic, sexist, ageist, and even socialist smile I avoid being next to them at the work piss ups. I certainly wouldn't try to get them fired for being arse holes

I do think that part of the problem is seeing certain groups as other based on factors such as religion or skin colour. I also see some people being quick to blame immigration for changes that were happening anyway. The increase in urbanisation, change in traditional industries and greater geographic mobility have all had and are still having a major effect in some areas, it's not all down to the Poles or the Muslims.

BigAudioDynamite Sun 17-Feb-13 14:58:08

Sorry bessie, I did misinterpret your post. I don't think I'm dim though smile

BarbJohnson5 Sun 17-Feb-13 16:16:42

I think they're being insensitive and want the attention from FB posters/onlookers. People never fail to fall for the post everything on FB, to the point where they post any and everything without thinking of the consequences. If they were being racist, they should be reprimanded or even sacked by the company they represent for it.

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