to be really, REALLY fucking angry.

(225 Posts)
HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 20:46:19

DD is 6. Was very quiet when I picked her up from after school club (at 5.30pm), unusually so but I kind of worried that she was coming down with something so after the initial 'are you feeling ok' I kind of left her to it and didn't question her too much.

Ran the bath, gave her a quick cuddle as she was getting undressed and she winced, actually winced, then started crying. I got her undressed and she had blood on her shirt at the back. Her shirt was actually sticking to her back. Then it all came out - one of the girls at school was poking her with a stick and was lifting up her coat and cardigan and scraping it down her back. I asked her if she told anyone and she said that the playground supervisor saw it and told her to stop crying and that she was acting like a baby.

Her back is scratched to absolute fuck and she was sobbing as I was trying to clean it for her. I am beyond mad. The issue with the child is one I shall bring up with her teacher but I am absolutely fucking furious at the playground supervisor.

How do I handle this so that I don't get a 'oh sorry about that' response. I'm so angry that she spend the whole afternoon sore and upset and she didn't want to tell her teacher because 'Mrs X said she was being a baby'.

Figgygal Tue 12-Feb-13 20:47:20

Take photographs for a start I don't blame u for being furious

BubblegumPie Tue 12-Feb-13 20:48:33

Go to the head. The woman wasn't doing her job properly, they might fire her with any luck.

chickensarmpit Tue 12-Feb-13 20:48:39

Talk to the head. If that doesn't work, speak to your local education department. That's what I did and it helped.

Bessie123 Tue 12-Feb-13 20:49:00

Who runs the school? Is it the lea? I would be ready to rip the playground supervisor's head off.

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 20:49:03

I have Figgy I want to let the school see for themselves the state of her back. I know kids can get into these situations but I'm so angry that the person who was supposed to be supervising and that DD is actually really find of, just brushed her off.

Photograph and tell the teacher that you want this to be an official complaint.

This is awful. Your poor daughter sad

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 20:49:40

*fond of

Shakey1500 Tue 12-Feb-13 20:49:54

Bloody HELL. I would be raging also. Agree with taking photos to show them. Your poor DS sad

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 12-Feb-13 20:49:58

Go into school with her tomorrow with photos and ask for a investigation into the matter.

But no yanbu

YANBU. Take a photo while it's still bad, and take the bloodied shirt to show them how serious this is.

The playground supervisor sounds lax, nasty and unapproachable.

Your poor dd x

threesypeesy Tue 12-Feb-13 20:50:17

thats such a shame poor wee soul, hope shes ok.

tbh skip the teacher go straight to head and give them hell!!! to be physically injured then belittled by staff is outrageous! no wonder your mad. I wouldnt even accept an appology i would want action taken

Noodled Tue 12-Feb-13 20:50:25

Headteacher first thing, your poor little ddsad

There will probably be a learning mentor she can be linked to and given a pass to so she can feel safe and have someone other than lunch staff to go to if any trouble again.

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 20:50:41

I want to write a letter but I can't do it tonight. I'm so angry and I want it to be well written and concise and not a rambly 'my poor baby' letter. Even though that's exactly how I feel.

KenLeeeeeee Tue 12-Feb-13 20:50:56

That is terrible! Poor you and your poor dd sad

ElectricSheep Tue 12-Feb-13 20:51:13

Try to calm down Harry. Your poor DD will be even more worried about telling you if she sees a furious you as a response.
I'd go straight to the head, personally preferably or in writing if you can't get in tomorrow. May be writing down what you want to say tonight will help clarify exactly your points. Try not to jump in straight away though, sometimes DC don't quite report the whole picture.
Hope she feels better in the morning . Paracetamol for the pain?

Poor lovesad I would also be fucking fuming. I would be too angry to articulate anything properly, but sure someone clever will be along pretty soon.

What a bitch.

Kyrptonite Tue 12-Feb-13 20:51:56

I would be furious too OP. Give the school bloody hell in the morning if they won't give you a satisfactory answer.

Hope your DD is ok xx

ScottyDoc Tue 12-Feb-13 20:52:26

Your poor little dd bless her, and I am fucking furious on your behalf too. The supervisor needs to be hauled up to the head, and the child who did it is to be named and shamed. Get in to the office first thing tomorrow, and calmly show the head dds injuries and tell them exactly what went on. The head will ask dd and then the supervisor and kid in question can be held to account. I've been on the receiving end of one of the dinner ladies as a child who disliked me for no apparent reason and I remember her sneering at me when I was upset about something. So sorry this has happened sad

ThePinkOcelot Tue 12-Feb-13 20:52:49

I would be absolutely livid! Your poor DD,bless her! And that bitch in the school yard shouldn't be doing that job with that attitude! Furious on your behalf. Let us know how you get on tomorrow.

Greensleeves Tue 12-Feb-13 20:53:07

Poor little sausage sad

Definitely tell the HT, but tell her class teacher as well - she may want to tear the MTA a new arsehole as well I would

Not good enough, not by a long way angry

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 20:53:15

Apparently it was because DD gets extra time with the teacher sometimes. She has type 1 diabetes and her teacher helps with doing blood tests and this other little girl doesn't like it (allegedly, I am well aware that 6 year olds sometimes get it wrong). She was only diagnosed just before Christmas and I so worry about this kind of thing setting her apart.

myroomisatip Tue 12-Feb-13 20:53:26

I would be absolutely livid! I cant understand how a six year old could be so downright bloody horrible!!!

Does your child know the name of the girl who did this to her?

I would be very tempted to keep her off school tomorrow and give her a lovely fun filled day. Bless her.

Pixieonthemoor Tue 12-Feb-13 20:53:48

Oh I am SO sorry - the poor poor little thing! I am so glad to hear that you have taken photos. I think to avoid getting the 'oh sorry about that' response, it's quite simple - just go in tomorrow am, demand to see the head, demand that the assistant is brought in, show the photos, describe what you have here and read the bloody riot act! Utter disgrace!!

Has there been any trouble with this girl before (either with your dd or anyone else)?

Sending a hug to your sweet girl.

aldiwhore Tue 12-Feb-13 20:53:50

YANBU it's unacceptable. I KNOW that playtime supervisors are always being told "so and so did this" etc., and I know that the supervisor may not have understood how bad the scratch was, but even taking that into account, it's just not on. Our children need to have faith in that when they tell someone, like we instruct them to, rather than hit back, that they are taken seriously.

I'm raging for you. (If that's an allowable term, I REALLY am!)

1. Photo.
2. Doctor's appointment tomorrow perhaps, so it's on the medical record?
3. Research the school's complaints procedure so you know where to start.
4. Letters are more effective than phone calls, in my experience.

And by the way, I would be very angry too. Your poor DD. sad

Naysa Tue 12-Feb-13 20:54:55

That's an awful message to send to a child angry your poor dd sad

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 20:54:59

I tried to be so calm when I saw electric but I don't think I did a good job sad I was so shocked. I know she's mine but she's such a sweet wee thing. She said she didn't say anything else because she didn't want to get anyone in trouble.

BabyRoger Tue 12-Feb-13 20:55:26

I would be absolutely livid. Your poor DD. Fucking awful. I would be straight to the head. angry for you.

ohdoone Tue 12-Feb-13 20:55:34

It might be hysterical of me but I'd not only go to the school I'd go to the police as well. Think about it, it some one attacked you with a stick what would you do? I appreciate nothing with probably happen to the child that did this but the people in charge of your daughter should be taken to task. I'm fucking appalled on your behalf. Your poor DD, I feel for you both. Fucking awful.

Oh man, that is shit, poor little thing. Straight in tomorrow, I would email the head tonight too so they are prepared for the wrath....
As a teacher, I would take that to the head immediately if you brought it to me so just go straight there.

Your dd needs an apology from the person who hurt her, via the head, and maybe from the midday supervisor too???
Otherwise, will she ever feel that she can go to an authority figure again?

Grrrrrr on your behalf. Kiss to dd.

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 20:56:47

And now you're all being so nice that I'm blubbing. I've never felt so angry before, ever, in my life.

freddiefrog Tue 12-Feb-13 20:56:51

I'd be spitting too

Is it a lunch time supervisor or is it one of the TAs/teachers supervising? Only, DD2 had a problem with a boy in her class, I went to the class teacher in the first instance and nothing changed as she's not actually out on the playground herself - DD kept being told to stop telling tales when this boy was chasing her around and punching her the entire break time, I went to the head and she soon dealt with both the boy, and the supervisor.

Greensleeves Tue 12-Feb-13 20:57:35

I totally disagree that the other child should be "named and shamed" btw hmm

They are six. That is why they are supposed to be adequately supervised! The other child should be in trouble for her actions and I am sure she will be, once OP has let the teacher know what has happened. But there is no need to lynch her.

The MTA is at fault here. I would need some very deep breaths before writing that letter if I were you OP

ohdoone Tue 12-Feb-13 20:57:49

Abysmal typos, sorry!

skullcandy Tue 12-Feb-13 20:58:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThePathanKhansAmnesiac Tue 12-Feb-13 20:58:23

Ahh God love her, the poor wee dote. I,d be fuming. Hope it,s sorted to your satisfaction.
What. a viscious thing for a child to do to another, and as for the playground supervisor!.shock

Greensleeves Tue 12-Feb-13 20:58:36

I would cry too Harry sad this is awful for you and your little girl

Oh thats so awful sad your poor DD.

Definately class teacher in the AM and the Head. If you dont get a satisfactory response put it in writing.

Please take photos to show them. Dont show then her back in person. She might not like that and it might make her feel at fault.

Oh no, type 1 diabetic too, and just since Christmas, so she is dealing with all that too?!?!?! Email letter now!

I agree. It was wrong of the child of course, but that is something they are all learning at 6. It is the supervisor I would be raging about. She has some serious grovelling to do IMO.

Marcheline Tue 12-Feb-13 20:59:43

Holy shit. I would be raging too.

I second the pp who said take her to the doctor, so it is on record. If she had scratches all day, made by a sodding stick, you would legitimately want to make sure there was no sign of infection.

After doctors, go to the head. Surely the supervisor should be disciplined for that sort of negligence?

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 21:00:05

I'm not happy with the other child obviously but I am actually far more pissed off with the supervisor.

MamaBear17 Tue 12-Feb-13 21:00:56

I am a teacher. Please do the following:

Take a photograph

Take a statement from your dd - write down exactly what she says and quote the things she says about the supervisor.

Phone and book an appointment with the head teacher for first thing tomorrow morning.

When you see the head, try to stay calm, but express your complete and utter disappointment with the supervisor. You have every right to express your concerns about their ability to keep your child safe at school. The supervisor had a duty of care to your child. When she saw her crying she should have asked her what was wrong. She should have taken her inside to a teacher she trusted and allowed the teacher to investigate. What a bloody idiot!

Good luck.

Ps I wouldn't worry about feeling emotional about it, and not writing it down till you are calm, I get your point greensleeves but if it was me, I would want to put down my anguish and not wait till I was calm!

goingupinfumes Tue 12-Feb-13 21:03:01

Oh that's awful, I hope you get that sorted out tomorrow and give your DS lots of hugs and cuddles poor mite.

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 21:03:09

I'm going to take her to doc in the morning. I've cleaned her back but it was so sore for her that I was so worried about hurting her even more so I want to make sure no infection.

Checkpoint she is dealing with her Type 1 amazingly. I, on the other hand, never stop worrying about it. I just feel that she has so much to cope with just now (my FIL died last month too, who she adored) that she really does not need this. She has 6 injections a day, I think that's enough pain for her.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Tue 12-Feb-13 21:03:13

Poor little lamb! If that was my DD I would be on a murderous rampage!

I cannot believe she sat and suffered because some stupid twat told her she was being a baby!

I am angry on your behalf and very sad for your DD.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 12-Feb-13 21:03:31

How about this.

Dear head,

My child returned home from school injured on such and such date, at play time ( insert approx time) another child was poking and scratching her back with a stick. This occurred in full view of ( name) but when dd approached them for help she was belittled and told to go away and stop being a baby by previously named person.

Please find attached photo of injury and either shirt or photo of shirt to show the nature of the injury.

Whilst my child is in your care you are responsible for safeguarding her as are your staff members,on this occasion this did not happen and I would like to know why. I would also like to know what steps will be taken to make sure this is not repeated.

I would also like to know who in the LA I should copy in on this request.

Yours.

BrittaPerry Tue 12-Feb-13 21:04:22

Are the wounds clean? I'm just a bit worried in case it was a dirty stick.

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 21:04:37

Mamabear thank you, that's really helpful.

CombineBananaFister Tue 12-Feb-13 21:05:51

I actually feel horrified for you, it's awful when your child gets hurt in just the rough and tumble of everyday school BUt for a supervisor to say this because she can't be arsed to deal with it is bloody awful sad your poor DD, it's also a trust issue of her being able to approach the relevant adult if she feels threatened and that's awful. Exactly what mamabear17 said

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 21:06:35

I hate the thought of her sitting there all afternoon upset and sore.

Greensleeves Tue 12-Feb-13 21:06:37

You could be right Checkpoint. As a teacher I wouldn't be fazed if a parent reporting this got upset or was visibly angry. I'd know I'd feel the same if it happened to my child.

OP I am so sorry it has all come at once for your little girl, she already had enough on her plate without this sad. But she has a great mum who is looking after her and fighting her corner x

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 21:08:31

Thank you Greensleeves. x

myroomisatip Tue 12-Feb-13 21:09:25

Very helpful MamaBear.

Greensleeves why shouldnt the child be named and shamed?

It seems this child has the makings of being a bully at the very least and her behaviour should be punished.

I am surely older than a lot of posters but, for example, at my school, if dinner money went missing no one was allowed to leave and all clothes and bags were searched until it was found.

I have to say that my school days were incredibly trouble free and very happy. I was never bullied, I dont know of any pupil that was. #

Surely that child should be made aware that her behaviour is unacceptable?

Scootee Tue 12-Feb-13 21:10:02

Take photographs in person to the head teacher. He/she will not be able to ignore this evidence of being harmed at school. Then follow up with what the playground supervisor said to he, which is a total disgrace. If unsatisfactory, go to govenors.

TreadOnTheCracks Tue 12-Feb-13 21:10:40

YANBU straight to the head in the morning.

Greensleeves Tue 12-Feb-13 21:11:27

Yes I do agree that the other little girl should be shown that her behaviour is unacceptable. If I were her teacher I would be very cross indeed and there would be consequences appropriate for a six year old. But not naming and shaming.

The MTA on the other hand... well I imagine the HT will be pretty pissed off!

ArtexMonkey Tue 12-Feb-13 21:11:42

Oh you poor thing you. And poor dd.

Here's what i did when my dd's 'friend' spat in her face, kicked her then strangled her with a hula hoop one lunchtime, and the lunchtime supervisors did nowt:

I had a meeting with the HT next morning (like you i was livid). Told her what had happened etc. i had a list of my concerns (in my case is not the first time i have been to school about this child) and i also asked what would be done to avoid it happening in the future.

Then when i got home i wrote a follow up email that said 'dear mrs x, jut to clarify what we discussed in our meeting earlier for our respective records, i told you xy and z and you responded ab and c and we agreed that the best course of action would be blah blah'

She replied confirming

Then replied later that day saying that the other kid had been spoken to, had admitted it and apologised and missed golden time etc, and that she had had a meeting wih the lunchtime supervisors and said blah blah.

I also spoke to dd's class teacher and TA to make them aware that i wanted dd kept away from this other girl.

I was happy enough with the outcome, school seemed to take it seriously and i feel liek it was dealt with appropriately, but if it hadn't been i would have had everything in place to escalate it to the governors/police or whatever.

I do hope your school can do the same for you. Your poor poor dd. that lunchtime supervisor needs retraining at the very least.

IAmLouisWalsh Tue 12-Feb-13 21:12:29

That sounds bloody awful.

A quick word of caution, though - did the supervisor actually see what was happening with the stick? Or just see your DD crying? Not that calling her a baby is acceptable AT ALL but I am astonished that someone might see the stick being used and not do anything. My mam used to be a lunchtime supervisor and she had a little notebook where she had to record anything that resulted in any possible injury.

NatashaBee Tue 12-Feb-13 21:12:38

That is terrible. I would look up the school bullying policy and quote that back to them too, since they clearly weren't following it.

gordyslovesheep Tue 12-Feb-13 21:12:48

oh your poor DD sad I am with you - I would be FURIOUS x

MumVsKids Tue 12-Feb-13 21:12:57

GP first thing, so it's on a medical record.

HT after GP, face to face but give a written complaint too requesting investigation and response.

If this isn't forthcoming, then letter to Chair of Governors, and be certain to ask for a copy of the minutes of the governors meeting to ensure it was bought to the table. Also the same letter to the local authority child protection/safeguarding board and the director of childrens services within your local authority.

I would also consider local press if HT is not forthcoming and willing to investigate and dish out relevant punishments to both the stick-wielding child and the playtime supervisor.

Your poor dd sad hope she's not too sore.

HarrySnotter Tue 12-Feb-13 21:15:52

That's awful Artex I will meet with the HT and follow up in writing too. I can't let this one go without taking it to the max.

At the risk of sounding like a wuss, DD is very unsettled tonight and keeps waking. I'm going to take her into bed with me tonight but I promise I will report back what happens when I talk to HT. I just wish DH wasn't away just now.

Thanks everyone for your support.

Greensleeves Tue 12-Feb-13 21:16:56

hope she feels better in the morning x

ivykaty44 Tue 12-Feb-13 21:17:17

I hope your dd is ok - what a brave dc she was today sad

quoteunquote Tue 12-Feb-13 21:19:53

this has the links that may be helpful as you put your thoughts together.

EverybodysSootyEyed Tue 12-Feb-13 21:20:36

This is horrible and I know how it feels when your child suddenly blurts out something that is quite horrifying

I think you need to separate the two issues.
1) The other girl - you need to talk to her teacher and also mention that you are concerned that her diabetes may see her being singled out. It sounds like the teacher is very supportive and I think you need to trust her with dealing with this.
2) the lunchtime supervisor is the big issue to me. Victim blaming and turning a blind eye to violence - both are unforgivable. I agree that you need to see the head about this. Don't start worrying about next steps just yet - you need to go in feeling HT will resolve - if you go in feeling like it will be a confrontation it may well turn into one.

Good luck - I hope your DD feels better after a good nights sleep

chocolatetester1 Tue 12-Feb-13 21:23:42

There's lots if great advice here, I'm with mama. Just wanted to add that it's worth ensuring your daughter has someone they can go to in future. Hopefully, the situation will be resolved to your satisfaction, but I expect your daughter would feel safer knowing she has the option of a trusted adult at school, to whom she can go at any time. I would want this arranged with the school before she has to have another playtime or lunchtime under the 'supervision' of that dinner lady. Good luck tomorrow.

MumVsKids Tue 12-Feb-13 21:25:58

Just to add on, when my dd1 was 6, she was scratched so badly by another 6 year old girl, out of spite, that it warranted me being called to school in the middle of the day to view the injury.

I was horrified too, and requested the head investigate fully and report back on her findings and subsequent punishments. We got an apology, via the head teacher, a couple of days later.

I told her it want good enough and I wasn't happy, and I would take it to the next governors meeting. (I am vice chair of our governing body). HT not happy with this at all.

I wrote to our chair of govs as I said I would. In the meantime, same girl, less than a week later stole dd1s shoes during PE and put them in the bin (she admitted this) because DDs shoes had got the little dollys in the bottom and hers hadn't.

I was furious. Amongst other incidents, this led to the girl being excluded and the whole family have now moved away.
Dd1 has a big scar running straight down her throat and chest from when she was scratched sad

I hate spiteful bullies.

gordyslovesheep Tue 12-Feb-13 21:26:33

My eldest had a serious assault on the playground when she was 6 - sexual in nature - I took her to the GP (she had bruising) and I wrote a very firm letter to the head outlining our concerns and expressing concern at their failure to safeguard her welfare

Write down what happened, write down what you want them to do about it - be calm x

weegiemum Tue 12-Feb-13 21:27:23

Your poor, poor dd! My ds was physically bullied at age 7 and it broke my heart.

Personally, I wouldn't email ahead. I'd phone and demand ask for an urgent appointment but not say why.

I'm suspicious: I'm also a teacher. I wouldn't bet on the head not talking to the member of staff ahead of time, and thus forming an opinion based on what the playground supervisor says.

Sounds awkward, but I'd put the head on the spot.

makemineapinot Tue 12-Feb-13 21:28:41

Your poor wee DD. I am a teacher and agree with many of the points above. Go to doctor and get it check for infection/ recorded in notes. Then go to HT and wait to see her with your dd, take photos and shirt. Take notes in meeting and ask her to clarify what they will do about this, repeat back to confirm and follow up in a letter confirming the conversation and agreed actions. Reiterate the fact that they have a duty of care to keep your dd safe at school and if action points are not followed up write to governors as per post above and lea. Poor wee soul, hope she's ok in morning x

so many people failing on their duty of care here - that a child should suffer so during the school day and NO ONE notice her injuries.
All teaching staff she came into contact with and the after school staff need are jointly responsible for this negligence (in my opinion).

I would photograph, go to Docs to check the wounds and then straight to the school.

xx

eminemmerdale Tue 12-Feb-13 21:30:15

Had a similar experience too when dd was in early years - she was verbally abused by a group of boys about her hearing problems. She came home very upset (I know it's nothing like physical abuse and I'm so sad for your little girl sad ) and I straight away spoke to her teacher, naming the boys involved and saying I wanted something doing bout it. Her teacher was fabulous - she dealt with it by setting up a session on 'differences' and my dd actually stood up and told the class what the 'matter' with her was, that she couldn't hear like them but it didn't mean they should be nasty etc. She is a very confident child and I know not all children with want to do that, but maybe, when this is sorted out, the class could do a general discussion about why some children may seem to be a bit different and need a bit of extra supprt but how they are still the same. For now, I am so so sorry this happened. She sounds so lovely - sitting there bleeding sad I hope you have a peaceful night.

Clumsyoaf Tue 12-Feb-13 21:35:52

Goodness me, lurking but had to say something! Please don't wash that shirt take it to school... Your poor dd, that has reduced me to tears. Yet this is a civilised society we live in. The child who did this should and NEEDS to be reprimanded. I'm so sorry I'm so angry for you and your little one that I feel like I'm raging and making no sense myself.

MammaTJ Tue 12-Feb-13 21:42:12

You have had better advice from others than I could give you, I just want to add that I too amd horrified at what has happened and how it was dealt with.

Hugs to you and your poor DD.

fengirl1 Tue 12-Feb-13 21:43:52

OP, the 'magic words' you need to say are 'if this issue is not resolved to my satisfaction I will be making a formal complaint to the Chair of Governors' if you feel at all unhappy with the school's response. The HT would have to be a complete fool to ignore this. I would also mention dd's diabetes and the death of your FIL (if the school are aware of this) in any conversation or letter just to remind them of what your dd is already dealing with. I hope you get this sorted out soon, and that your dd recovers quickly.

MyCannyBairn Tue 12-Feb-13 21:48:54

Write down everything everyone says, EVERYTHING.

Corygal Tue 12-Feb-13 21:52:54

I'd be livid too - but to get this dealt with as it deserves you need to calm down (this may take some time).

The child who did it is a liabiilty - everyone knows when they're drawing blood even at that age.

Don't forget pix of the bloody shirt.

It should heal fine, tho, by the sounds of it. Arrange something very nice for this weekend.

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Tue 12-Feb-13 21:52:56

Take photos in the morning too. Take a good few photos in different lights.

If you get a meeting withthe HT please don't worry if you get upset. It doesn't matter and you shouldn't feel embarrassed if you do.

Can any of your DD friends back up what happened?

Oh gosh your poor DD sad

I think any mum would be furious and upset and I agree school shouldn't be surprised if this comes across. Taking to her docs is probably a good idea.

Hope she settles and gets some sleep, sounds like she's had a tough time lately and I'm sure a night with you there will be a comfort to her.

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Tue 12-Feb-13 21:58:13

Completely agree with the writing everything down.

If you have a meeting with the HT there is nothing wrong with noting things down during the conversation. It will give you time to compose your thoughts and may be useful in future.

PastaB Tue 12-Feb-13 21:58:42

Your poor little girl. I'd be livid too.

fluffypillow Tue 12-Feb-13 22:01:16

OP, I am in tears here for you and your DD sad it has seriously touched me.

What a horrible experience for your little girl to deal with. She obviously has enough things going on in her life at the moment without this.

Please don't let this 'supervisor' get away with it, be strong, be clear with what you expect from the headteacher, and most importantly, follow EVERYTHING up in writing. It will then be kept on record, and won't be swept under the carpet.

The school have a 'duty of care', and there was no care given to your DD at school today.

I hope your little girl is ok. I am just so shocked that this could happen to a six year old, and an adult dismiss her in such a cruel way sad

Good luck, let us know how you get on. smile

AnyoneforTurps Tue 12-Feb-13 22:05:09

I'm a GP. I agree with all those saying you have every right to be furious. I also agree that your DD should see a GP if you have any concern about infection (and don't forget that diabetics have an increased risk of infection, though typically 48h or so from the injury, rather than the next day).

There is however no point seeing the GP to get the injury "in the medical record"' as some are suggesting. GPs make records from a medical point of view, not a forensic (legal) one. I always advise patients in this sort of scenario to see the police because I am not trained to record injuries to a legal standard, which is very specific and different from the medical standard. If you are not planning legal action then your own photos are fine. If you are, then you need the police to record your DD's injuries.

Your poor little girl! I have no advice other than to get everything documented but my sincere sympathies - how the hell did the supervisor not see it happen at any point given the state of your daughter's back? Something is rotten here.

zipzap Tue 12-Feb-13 22:08:57

Your poor dd. And horrendous to think that a playground supervisor would be so dismissive of such injuries and behaviour inflicted on your dd.

I would go to the doctor's tomorrow to get it in her records and check there's no infection in the wounds, before going to school.

I would then speak with the HT as an urgent matter so that she can deal with it immediately and so that she can see your dd's back and blood stained top, and make sure that this girl and the PS are kept away from your dd in the immediate future. I would also let her know that I will be following up the meeting with a formal complaint in writing, but emphasize that you felt you needed to talk to the HT before your dd returned to classes because you couldn't possibly let your dd return without knowing that she would not be injured or bullied again before the HT had a chance to read your letter. Make sure that you say that you are holding the HT personally responsible for the safety of your dd. Think before you go in of what sort of measures would make you feel that your dd is safe - eg if the child was older then you would hope that they were excluded for a few days, as well as kept away, or moved to a different class. Not sure what they can do when they are 6 - but the pass mentioned earlier sounds a good idea and there might be other things. If you go in asking for several things, they might be able to do some but not all so ask for more than you want in order to have room to negotiate and still end up with what you want!

When you do write the letter, make sure it gets sent to the governors and the local education department - I guess their welfare officer but if you call them up they will be able to tell you the right person to send it to. I would also be prepared to say that if they can't guarantee my dd's immediate safety whilst in school currently then you can't leave her there until they can - and be prepared to go home with your dd - telling them that you will take home work with you, and that it had better be put down as authorised absence or you will be raising merry hell about that too.

For a 6 yr old to be repeatedly scraping a stick hard enough down another child's back to draw blood - and going to the trouble of lifting up her clothes in order to do it - doesn't sound like normal 6 yr old behaviour - maybe a nasty kid would poke with a stick but going this far? I wonder if she has been a victim of something herself and this is a red flag that should be used to investigate her? Not saying she doesn't need telling off - but alongside this she needs to be dealt with to find out why she would think of doing this and if she has experienced something similar or seen others do it.

I would also be tempted to report to the police - not that you expect them to do anything as she is so young, but it would then be on record. But even a chat from a policeman might make her realise (and her parents if they are not aware of her behaviour) quite how far over the line she went and that what she did was a very very naughty thing that should never be repeated. And maybe they could send round a community policeman to do a session for everyone on how to treat others, not to hurt them etc because that's a bad thing to do and will get them into trouble.

How well does your dd get on with her class teacher normally? I would also talk to her - not to get her to punish the other child or deal with the PS, but to make sure that your dd gets looked after in class and the bully is kept away from her at all times. And to reassure her that regardless of whatever anyone else says, she isn't a baby, she is very brave because she has all her injections which is much braver than most of teh others in the class, and that she can feel free to come to talk to her at any time, especially if she is in pain. Could you and the teacher also say to your dd that because of her diabetes that even if it is only a little bit of blood or soreness (and even if a teacher or another pupil have said something silly or nasty to her) that it is still important that she tells the teacher about it so she can make sure she is OK - ie something that effectively gives her the OK in her mind to talk to her teacher even if another one has told her that she doesn't need to. If this scenario were then to play out identically for a second time (hoping to goodness it doesn't!) this would then hopefully give your dd the confidence to talk to her teacher about her injuries rather than sitting there thinking that she couldn't talk to her because the PS had told her she was a baby and that there was nothing wrong with her.

If your dd is in pain or if the doc gives her something to treat her back, I would make sure that your dd tries to take at least one dose in school, so they can see that your dd has been so badly hurt in their care that she needs medication.

Sorry, all a bit of a jumble. But really hope that your dd is OK and the school deal with this properly for you.

poodletip Tue 12-Feb-13 22:13:20

Oh your poor baby sad I don't think you should be afraid of letting the school see how upset you are. You've every right to be upset. I hope you get a good response from them. Good idea to get her checked by the Dr too. It sounds so sore poor love.

Catmint Tue 12-Feb-13 22:14:32

Yes to doctor - I was thinking is she up to date with tetanus?

Failure in safeguarding.

Bullying policy.

So sorry for your DD & you. Mine is 6 and if this happened I would be as angry as you obviously are.

IDontDoIroning Tue 12-Feb-13 22:32:01

Agree with others above. Write a letter outlining the incident
This raises stage 1 of the complaint

Dear ht
Compliant re incident at xx pm on xx date

On xx date at xx time child (name) deliberately hurt my child (name) by repeatedly poking / scratching her with a stick to the extent that this broke the skin and drew blood to such an extent that it was difficult to remove her shirt tonight because of the dried blood had adhered to the skin and injury.
I attach photos of injury and shirt for you information.
In addition I would like you to know I have sought medical advice because as you know she is recently diagnosed as a type 1 diabetic and is therefore more vulnerable to infection due to this.
My child was very upset by this incident as mrs lunch time supervisor witnessed xxx and yy. According to my child xx happened then yy happened zz then happened etc mrs lunchtime supervisor said x.

She did not investigate the reason my child was upset or examine my child for injury. Had she done so it would have been apparent that she had been hurt by the other child.

My child sat through the rest of the school day in pain and discomfort and upset.

I would like to register my complain on the following grounds

Mrs lunchtime failed in her duty of care to look after my child she did not investigate why my child was upset or comfort her. In fact she dismissed her as being a baby.
My child was injured in the schools care this injury has not been logged in an appropriate incident book nor has my child received prompt first aid or medical attention.

In addition i feel my child is being bullied by child x as she has said she thinks my child gets too much attention from the teacher. As you know she is recently diagnosed as diabetic and requires help to manage this potentially life threatening and life long condition.

I would like you to investigate this incident and on going issues with child x in line with your behaviour, anti bullying policy, child protection and safeguarding policies.

I would be grateful to receive copies of the policies listed above together with the complaints policy by the end of the school day.

I am hoping to speak with you to discuss the above as soon as possible.
Yours

Mrs xx

If you meet her follow it up in writing

Eg in our meeting we discussed x you agreed to do y I will do z. Please let me know if I have misunderstood. Otherwise I look forward to hearing from you

At this stage you have recorded your complaint. She has to respond within a certain no of days. If you aren't happy with outcome you move up to stage 2 by writing to chair of govs. They will have to respond within a certain time frame and if you aren't happy you can appeal to a full committee and then to lea.

Hopefully it won't get that far as ht will over herself to sort it out.

fascicle Tue 12-Feb-13 22:35:52

So sorry about what's happened to your dd. I would be incandescent. Lots of good suggestions about handling this. I would only add - during your meeting with the HT, please make sure you're happy with suggested actions and associated timescales, and please set up a review meeting to ensure you are satisfied with actions and changes implemented. It's important that the head is accountable to you in the handling of this matter. All the best for tomorrow.

CoffeeandDunkingBiscuits Tue 12-Feb-13 22:41:01

Your poor DD! sad I am shocked at the supervisor and would be furious too.

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Tue 12-Feb-13 22:46:49

<<Big Hugs for you both>>

What a horrible child angry

You have lots of advice already and I'm sure all bases have been well covered, make sure you don't get fobbed off. If necessary, think of all of us standing behind you!

Sorry to hear about DD's diagnosis too - I have just been dx with Type 2, it's a lot to get your head around isn't it (for you) and a big deal for a 6 year old to be going through, poor little love does not need this shit as well sad

Seabird72 Tue 12-Feb-13 22:48:17

what zigzag said . just horrified for your poor daughter

MissBetseyTrotwood Tue 12-Feb-13 22:49:02

I feel furious for you and for her. Can't add to any advice on this thread, except to say that I agree with the poster who said that this is not normal 6yo behaviour and the school are failing in a very basic way.

Your poor little girl. Stay as calm as you can and go as high as you can with this. Do you have a partner or another adult who can go in with you when you deal with the school? I'd take the shirt with me too, as well as the pictures. I'd want to meet with the supervisor themselves too, though I know that may not be entirely appropriate.

Something very, very nice for half term and some play dates with good friends are in order.

Keep us posted. I feel quite affected by this and would like to know the outcome of it all.

Hope your DD feels better in the morning. I'm appalled at the PS - to dismiss a little dot who is upset and crying is just wrong, but when it's your job to ensure their safety and wellbeing it is inexcusable.

I hope the HT agrees with you and action is taken but if not then I would lodge an official complaint about the PS and the HT with both the Governors and the LEA.

FlowerTruck Tue 12-Feb-13 23:08:40

Hope your little girl gets a good nights sleep. Good luck with the head tomorrow. I am so angry for your poor daughter.

havingastress Tue 12-Feb-13 23:09:49

Your post just moved me to tears sad I'd be livid too. Your poor, brave little daughter. I hope she feels better soon. Awful safeguarding from the school. You have every right to be blazing and to ensure that no other poor little child has to go through this.

charitymum Tue 12-Feb-13 23:41:41

Wretched. Good suggestions within the thread.

The school should be addressing:
-safeguarding failure-not just supervisor but those who did not notice your child's distress
-plans to support your child going forward
-the behaviour of the child who did this. Poking another child with stick enough to draw blood far from typical playground behaviour and needs addressing. You don't need to know what they do to address it but you do need to know that they have and that your daughter is safe

You can - if you are not happy with school response - contact OFSTED to either raise concerns on safeguarding (really nuclear option) or to provide a parent view of school that will be taken into account in assessments.

Hopefully through the head will take it as seriously as they should.

Hope things get better for you and yours

PenguinBear Tue 12-Feb-13 23:51:20

Your poor DD.

I agree with taking pics and visiting the head. Let us know how it goes x

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Wed 13-Feb-13 02:18:59

Oh, your poor DD and poor you. I am just livid on your behalf; especially that the playground supervisor's response meant that your little daughter was bleeding and in pain ALL AFTERNOON and didn't feel like she could tell you because of what that utter cow woman said to her.

Six!

PessaryPam Wed 13-Feb-13 02:45:56

Harry, that is terrible. You need to photograph her back and then speak to the head about it at the very least. I would then expect the supervisor to apologize to you and your DD if she keeps her job. The child with the stick also needs to be spoken to, along with her parents. This is beyond normal playground behavior.

And have a hug for you and your DD from me.

IDontKnowWhereMyMedalsAre Wed 13-Feb-13 02:47:39

Poor dd and poor you. Yy to all the advice given BUT don't give up the shirt. It is bound to get lost and if you take your complaint further (perfectly reasonably IMHO) not having the shirt won't help. Hugs to dd.

MsTakenidentity Wed 13-Feb-13 03:20:23

sad

CheerfulYank Wed 13-Feb-13 04:35:37

Awful! Your poor baby. sad

flow4 Wed 13-Feb-13 06:14:27

A similar thing happened to my DS1 when he was in Y4. It was a stick too, plus a football being used to bash his spine. He had scratches and bruises all down his back. sad The 'supervisor' similarly told him to 'stop fussing'. angry

I made an appointment with the head. I stayed calm. I made the point that I was trying to ensure that my (boisterous) DS did not fight or hit, but rather told an adult when he needed help sorting a playground conflict - and that this was a massive breach of trust. I said there were obviously serious staff training issues that needed addressing. I cited 'duty of care'; I didn't cite 'safeguarding', since this was ten years ago, but I would do today. I asked to see the anti-bullying policy, but it was not written; I told her she needed to make that a priority. I told her that if she did not deal with the supervisor's obvious breach of her duty of care and lack of understanding, I would involve the LA.

The anti-bullying policy got drafted within a few weeks (but not finished). The lunchtime supervisors all had staff training.

Watch out for the general culture in your DD's school. In my son's school, it turned out this incident actually signalled a wider problem, that didn't really get resolved until that head retired.

flow4 Wed 13-Feb-13 06:21:05

Oh yes, and following your meeting, write formally to the head, recording what you discussed and what she agreed to do. My son's school had a policy of only taking action on written complaints, not spoken ones... And I understand many schools do the same. hmm

Marcheline Wed 13-Feb-13 07:36:54

How is your DD this morning? I hope she's not feeling too scared to go to school sad

I have been thinking about her all night (pregnancy insomnia) I hope you get something positive from the HT today x

gimmecakeandcandy Wed 13-Feb-13 07:49:33

Go give them hell. Astonishing that the playground supervisor acted like this.

LangenFlugelHappleHoff Wed 13-Feb-13 07:57:46

Good luck today

LangenFlugelHappleHoff Wed 13-Feb-13 08:01:27

Oh and after showing your poor DD's shirt to HT I would give it to other girls mother and tell her to get the stains out. Let her see just how much hurt her child caused so they can't down play it or sweep it under the rug

LadyMargolotta Wed 13-Feb-13 08:01:47

Don't know if anyone has suggested this, but I would get her to the GP first thing this morning, espeicially considering her diabetes and increased risk of infection. Tetanus needs to be checked as well.

sad for you and your dd.

MissBetseyTrotwood Wed 13-Feb-13 08:03:24

Yes, I had an odd wakeful night last night too. Good luck today OP.

MrsMushroom Wed 13-Feb-13 08:08:18

I think this is awful and the other child's behavior disturbing to say the least!

JUst seen this thread. I would go straight to our head with something like this. Having had dcs at that school for 10 years I know how he would handle it and I would trust him with that. If you don't know the school that well go for a letter though. I hope you get on ok at the GP too. Perhaps something like germolene would help DD? You can get one that's both an antiseptic and local anesthetic. (spelling?)

diddl Wed 13-Feb-13 08:11:17

Nothing useful to add-but I would be incandescent tbh.

So the twatty PS didn´t even take the stick away or try to separate them??

And so what if she was "being a baby" -at 6yrs oldhmm-where was the duty of care/help to get her away from a bully?

diddl Wed 13-Feb-13 08:13:46

And OK-might not quite be right, but if the other girl is jealous-because your daughter gets extra time-due to having to stick herself with a needle-how weird is that??!!

Pixieonthemoor Wed 13-Feb-13 08:18:58

Good luck today OP. I hope you get the right result. I have been thinking of you and your little dd and really hope she is feeling ok today.

There should be some sort of emoticon to say 'I am sending my strength to you' or possibly 'the power of AIBU is behind you'!

fluffyraggies Wed 13-Feb-13 08:33:38

Good luck today OP.

I'm a TA. I have only just seen the thread but would have seconded this post last night:

"[Don't email ahead] I wouldn't bet on the head not talking to the member of staff ahead of time, and thus forming an opinion based on what the playground supervisor says. Sounds awkward, but I'd put the head on the spot."

This is probably too late for you as it's already half 8, but when you do speak to the head you will get an apology and a promise to look into it. You wont get any promises of getting anyone 'hauled into his/her office' with you there and then or later in the day even. He/she will speak to the teachers and supervisors concerned separately.

I'm not telling you this to dash you down at all - i'm preparing you for the damage limitation that the head will be trained to do, and will be very good at doing. He/she will have protection in mind for his staff don't forget. Which is good - but will make it frustrating for you.

Stick at this - you've had brilliant advice on this thread smile
Hugs for your DD.

LIZS Wed 13-Feb-13 08:36:50

Your poor dd sad. Hope you get it taken seriously.

lolaflores Wed 13-Feb-13 08:56:17

Just read this OP. best of luck this morning with the school. Give your DD a big love and a hug and a kiss for the day. My thoughts are with you and sending you lots of strength and patience too for the encounter to come. This is the sort of thing no parent wants to hear coming back from school.

bedmonster Wed 13-Feb-13 09:09:23

Just read this, not inthe least bit surprised you were fucking angry, what happened was disgraceful. Your poor DD. I really hope that you give them shit and your DD gets an apology from all concerned (not that this will rectify what they've done obviously).
Good luck, and come back and update when you're up to it.
(((((OP&DD)))))

ThePathanKhansAmnesiac Wed 13-Feb-13 09:11:36

How is dd thisorning Harry? I hope you both managed to sleep.
I couldn,t stop thinking about you both.
I gave my dd an extra hug when I dropped her off this morning.
I,ll be back to see how things have gone.

thanks

auntpetunia Wed 13-Feb-13 09:14:17

Hope you got to see the Head and that this gets sorted!

Hello OP, hope it went well today. How is your dd?

DeafLeopard Wed 13-Feb-13 10:05:06

You've already been given some great advice, so nothing to add other than hope your DD is ok. I would be raging IIWY. Hope the school respond appropriately.

Buzzardbird Wed 13-Feb-13 10:18:11

I hope you manage to get to sort this out this morning OP, this is one of the most shocking threads I have read here. Your poor DD. How was she about going to school?

CockyPants Wed 13-Feb-13 10:23:44

Hello OP.
Absolutely appalled at the other child's behaviour. It's sick.
Disgusted with school response.
I would escalate this to the governors, local authority and OFSTED.
I hope your little one recovers from physical injuries.
Possibly the worst school related posting I've read on MN.
All the best to your and your child. Lots of good advice and support on this thread.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 10:25:59

Hold on a second, they are 6.

Be appalled at the TA's behaviour if you like, not the child. She may not have been aware that the op's dd was hurt at all.

I can't understand all the spitting fury directed at a small child hmm. The supervision, on the other hand, was obviously appalling.

Thumbwitch Wed 13-Feb-13 10:27:14

I am horrified for you and your DD. Poor little soul, that's terrible! And the supervisor needs taking to task for not checking it out, especially as your DD has diabetes, so her risk of infection is higher.

I hope very much that she is ok - and that you managed to get her to the doctor to have her wounds checked - because scratches like that can get infected so easily.

Your DD's headteacher needs to be made aware of how negligent this situation is, and the little girl responsible needs some kind of punishment for her horrible bullying.

Thumbwitch Wed 13-Feb-13 10:29:37

Maryz, I love you, but 6 doesn't equal stupid. The OP's DD was crying, the girl in question was scratching her with a stick on her bare skin deliberately, to maximise the pain. She knew what she was doing.

Maryz Wed 13-Feb-13 10:36:24

No, it wasn't nice, 6 year olds do things that aren't nice. But there is a lot of over-reaction in the way people are talking about a 6 year old.

CockyPants Wed 13-Feb-13 10:37:18

Maryz nothing personal but I disagree. This week is 20th anniversary of a toddlers murder by 2 children....sadly not all children are the little innocent darlings that society thinks they are.
It's not about whether the other child knew they were hurting OP DC. The fact is that the child did it and OP DC has suffered injury as a direct result of child's actions.

This has made me feel all hot and prickly and sick, your poor little DD. I haven't read the whole thing but you have been given good advice. I hope you get the resolution you need and DD's back recovers quickly xx

clam Wed 13-Feb-13 10:41:47

Am I the only one who thinks the Op should speak calmly to the Head and FIND OUT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED before shrieking about Ofsted and governors and the police?
(Not minimising the injury, although I haven't seen it, but for all we know the other child might also have been injured)

KellyElly Wed 13-Feb-13 10:42:22

Be appalled at the TA's behaviour if you like, not the child. She may not have been aware that the op's dd was hurt at all. I disagree. My DD is three and she is well aware when she has hurt someone. 6 is old enough to know that if another child is crying and in pain you have hurt them. Children can be bullies at this age and younger.

Flisspaps Wed 13-Feb-13 10:44:55

I agree with MaryZ. The child shouldn't have done it, but the supervisor should have stepped in and dealt with the situation appropriately. That's what they are there for - if children always behaved perfectly and didn't do stupid, silky, dangerous or sometimes mean things, then there'd be no need for lunchtime supervisors to exist.

The legal age of responsibility in this country is 10 - under that, children are not deemed to have the ability to fully understand the consequences of their actions, or to fully understand right and wrong. They would know scratching with the stick hurt, but not that a child with diabetes is more susceptible to infection or that the scratches would bleed so the shirt would stick, or that they'd hurt all night.

And Cocky, bringing child murderers onto the thread as a comparison of any kind is both ridiculous and verging on hysterical

MrsMushroom Wed 13-Feb-13 10:49:47

My first thought was concern for the OPs DD...then it was suspicion that the child who hurt her is being hurt herself...it's not normal for a 6 year old to do this kind of sustained hurting....a kick, a slap or a push...even one poke with a stick could all be explained away as a badly behaved 6 year old who was tired or upset.

Biut repeatedly scraping a stick down anothers back until she bled? Not normal. I would express concern for the child too OP but all your anger should be towards the supervisor.

Floggingmolly Wed 13-Feb-13 10:51:26

I hope you're still in the Head's office, op, making sure this is sorted properly.
Hope your dd is feeling a little better today sad

ledkr Wed 13-Feb-13 10:59:52

All dds lunchtime supervisors aren't great. She is 11 so sees the funny/irony in it but she has told me they shouldn't be working with children. They shout at them hugely she has heard muttered profanities they don't deal with anything just shoo them away. Fob off injurys and are just really nasty. She rarely finishes her lunch cos they are rushed and screamed at. I think they must be hard to come by as the hours are a bit annoying.
I don't bother complaining as it doesn't affect her she just finds it funny.

Apileofballyhoo Wed 13-Feb-13 11:03:46

Clam if the other child is also injured the school has failed them both and authorities need to be aware. Even if the OP's DD somehow 'started it' the injuries sustained were severe. The playground supervisor is clearly failed to protect at least one child and by your suggestion, possibly two. The OP and other posters are not being excessive mentioning school governors, police etc. Sticks could be used to poke out an eye, or kill someone. I think there is a problem in the school that needs to be addressed. I can't understand how the children have access to sticks that can be used to cause injury. A 6 year old child that uses an implement to draw blood sounds disturbed to me and in need of help. Perhaps there was a lead up to the incident, but that makes it no less serious. If both children had equal injuries it makes it no less serious. And it is very dangerous to tell any child to stop crying because they are being a baby. I would be angry if someone said that to my DS no matter what the circumstance. My DB nearly died from burst appendix as he didn't want to be a crybaby in school. Terrible terrible thing to say to a small or big child. No wonder people homeschool.

Op I'm very sorry this has happened to you and your DD. If I were you I would kick up a huge fuss. Who knows who else is suffering in the schoolyard.

clam Wed 13-Feb-13 11:09:55

"if the other child is also injured the school has failed them both"
Not at this point, necessarily. It depends how it's handled from this point onwards. That is not to say that the playground supervisor acted correctly, but we don't yet know how she did act - we have the word of a six year old to go on so far. That is not to say she's making it up or exaggerating, but the adult should be allowed her say too. It is the Head's job to investigate; if the OP is not satisfied that it's been handled appropriately, then sure, take it further.
But she must TALK TO THE SCHOOL FIRST. Calmly.
If children are waving sticks around and not being stopped straightaway, then there's clearly an issue. But as I say, we don't yet know for sure exactly what happened.

shesariver Wed 13-Feb-13 11:16:39

Well if its anything like my DSs school and headteacher it will seem the bully will have more rights than the victim after the traumatic time we had thanks to a 10 year old bully. There will always be someone along bleating about the bully being a victim to and what a terrible childhood they must have to make them hurt other children etc. I just think if these peoples children had been hurt, intimidated and bullied like my DS they would be singing from a different hymn sheet. This thread has a tinge of that here, yes the child is only 6 but thats what they were saying about the boy who continually assualted my DS and now hes 11 its still getting trotted out.

NUFC69 Wed 13-Feb-13 11:16:57

A similar thing happened when my DD was at school (she was about seven and is now in her thirties, so a long time ago). One morning I met a mum in the playground carrying a bloodied white shirt - I obviously asked what she was doing with it and she told me that the previous day, when their teacher had been called away and the children left for about ten minutes, a boy had repeatedly stabbed her DD in the back with a sharp pencil! Mum was obviously going into to see the head. I don't remember what happened, but I do remember that the boy in question had a very bad upbringing and was always in trouble - goodness only knows what his homelife was like. The girl had also not mentioned it to the class teacher, possibly because she was worried about repercussions.

I hope your DD is ok this morning, Op? Good luck with sorting it out.

CockyPants Wed 13-Feb-13 11:17:18

Fliss, I had a feeling someone might comment on my post. I mentioned it solely to illustrate how sickening children can be to each other. I am not ridiculous or hysterical. I disagreed with another poster saying that a 6 year old does not necessarily know what they are doing.

shesariver Wed 13-Feb-13 11:22:42

I agree with you cocky. Lots of people struggle to see this.

havingastress Wed 13-Feb-13 11:47:40

I teach kids this age.

They know exactly what they are doing.

BarbarianMum Wed 13-Feb-13 12:10:08

If that's what you truly believe havingastress then you've no business teaching in a primary school. angry

Children of 6 actually have a relatively poor perception of how their actions influence others. They often have limited emotional control, and difficulty distinguishing fantasy from reality, truth from what they wish to be true.

Think about it. Most 6 year olds believe in Father Christmas, or the Toothfairy, or magic. If their parents get divorced, or one dies, they quite commonly feel they are to blame.

There is a big difference between understanding that what your doing is 'wrong' or 'naughty' and really understanding how your actions affect others. They are not adults.

OP I'm really sorry about what happened to your daughter and hope you get some satisfaction from the head.

Apileofballyhoo Wed 13-Feb-13 12:17:55

Well unless the OP is lying and posting on mumsnet for bizarre attention from strangers, I do feel that the school has failed OP's DD as she has non accidental injuries. The school is responsible for the children while they are there. The injuries should not have happened. I realise that things may happen in a very short space of time and playground monitors do not have eyes in the back of their heads, but perhaps there should be more monitoring staff, and if budgets do not allow for this, at least ban sharp implements from the playground and forbid playing with sticks. When I was a small child our school banned balls in the playground as ball games were causing too many accidents, little children being knocked over etc. Us bigger children resented it but there was a lack of suitable facilities and we just had to suck it up.
A 6 year old should not come home with a bloody back. They were hardly playing good friday, and if they were, they should have been stopped. I can not see how the school is not at fault. Non accidental injuries are completely and utterly unacceptable.

armagh Wed 13-Feb-13 12:29:13

Barbarian Mum i think a 6 year old knows what will cause another pain. I am so sorry for the little one who was hurt. I would worry for the 6 year old who used the stick- it's not normal. What's happening in her life? I would certainly let the Board of Governors know in writing what had occurred with accompanying photographs of the injured back and the bloodied shirt also, not just the HT.
See GP. Poor little pet. Perhaps the supervisor did not see the stick....Clutching at straws.

clam Wed 13-Feb-13 12:34:25

"perhaps there should be more monitoring staff, and if budgets do not allow for this, at least ban sharp implements from the playground and forbid playing with sticks."

Of course sharp implements and playing with sticks would be "banned." But, as a parent, can you honestly, hand-on-heart sy your own kids have never got hold of anything they shouldn't have and made mischief with it? And if you saw it happen, you'd step in, but if you didn't see it, for perfectly good reasons, then maybe something bad might have happened.

Schools go to tremendous lengths to minimise potential accidents/scope for bad behaviour. They then get it in the neck from parents about "mollycoddling" children by not letting them play with conkers/footballs. But with the best will in the world, some things will slip through the net. The key thing then is how the HT deals with it. As here.

skullcandy Wed 13-Feb-13 12:36:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zipzap Wed 13-Feb-13 12:37:55

But Barbarianmum - at 6 most children are old enough to know that picking up a stick, grabbing another girl's coat, cardigan and shirt, lifting them up and dragging a stick down the skin to make it bleed is wrong. And to do this repeatedly is very wrong.

She might not be aware of the finer points of the fact the victim is diabetic and therefore will be more prone to infection. But she knew that she was deliberately inflicting nastiness on her victim.

She wasn't giving the girl a cuddle or playing nice games with her. She wasn't even playing with a stick, losing control and inadvertently scraping it down the back of the OP's dd's coat once and then saying sorry. That wouldn't have been nice for the dd but it would have been an accident, she should have said sorry, the teacher should have given her a hug better and then it would have been forgotten about.

The problem is that in this case, the child's actions were deliberate, they were drawing blood repeatedly - enough for the back to be 'scratched to fuck' - this is not just one or two little scratches, it is the action of somebody who set out to hurt somebody else. And at 6 you should be old enough to know that you do not actively go out and deliberately hurt other people, even if you are jealous because they get to spend a little extra time with the teacher each day.

She would have known damn well that what she was doing was both wrong and naughty, and whilst she might not have thought through any consequences beyond wanting to hurt the dd, she sure as hell knew that she was not being nice to the dd.

Doesn't preclude the fact that she might come from a screwed up environment where this would be seen as normal behaviour - chances are it would be normal 'punishment' behaviour rather than normal all-the-time behaviour. or that the girl herself will need some sort of help in controlling her anger or emotions or impulses or whatever, to get some sort of understanding why she thinks this is an acceptable thing to do to another child that has unwittingly annoyed or upset her (it's not like they were in the middle of having a stick fight from what the op has said). But she also needs some sort of punishment and warning about how what she has done was wrong.

Floggingmolly Wed 13-Feb-13 12:38:51

Barbarianmum. I would be seriously concerned for any 6 year old who didn't understand that this was wrong, and likely to cause injury.
I agree about the lack of impulse control; so lashing out when provoked would not be completely untypical of this age group, but this incident sounds both unprovoked and sustained. Unless the other child is a psychopath in the making - she would have known.

havingastress Wed 13-Feb-13 12:41:15

I have no business working with children because I have stated that kids know what they are doing?

What kind of a bizarre comment is that?

You're probably the same type of person who thinks then it's ok for a child to do this because 'they're only 6 and don't know any better.'

Those children will have known that what they were doing was wrong.

Incidentally, as a teacher, I would also be concerned about those children and worry that something in their home life was causing their inappropriate behaviour.

My number one priority in teaching is the safety, wellbeing and security of the children within my care. I object to your comment.

OP - I hope your DD is feeling much better. Do let us know how she is.

Stixswhichtwizzle Wed 13-Feb-13 12:48:10

Hope your meeting went well this morning OP.

armagh Wed 13-Feb-13 13:21:27

Havingastress i agree with you. Do hope op and her dd are ok today.

scarletsalt Wed 13-Feb-13 13:52:11

So let me get this straight: A lunchtime supervisor saw that your DD was bleeding and knew that a child had deliberately repeatedly scraped a stick down her back, and just told her to stop being a baby? Jesus Christ!

I am a teacher and know that there is a lot of shooing away of the 'he looked at me funny', 'she called me stoopid' stuff, otherwise you would constantly be dealing with ridiculous stuff. I also know that it is incredibly difficult to keep an eye on everything that happens on a busy playground, and sometimes children will get hurt.

But if a child is ever hurt it is always dealt with immediately and seriously and the sort of thing that you have described in the OP would be a very serious matter indeed with both sets of parents being contacted by staff.

I agree with havingastress that a 6 year old (so year 1 or year 2?) would definitely understand that deliberately hurting someone in this way is not acceptable. Barbarian I find your post very strange, of course a 6 year old knows that dragging a sitck down someone else's back is going to hurt (and even if there are SN involved, it still needs to be dealt with).

The only thing I could think of (and this is really clutching at straws here) would be if your DD often fusses is one of those children who seems to pick up an injury at every playtime, and the lunchtime supervisor didnt see what had happened at all and...........................nope, it is still unbelievable. Surely if a child even mentioned that they had been scratched on the back with a stick you would at least check?

Hope that you have spoken to school and they informed you of how this is going to be taken forward.

I hope that your dd is feeling a bit better this morning, OP, and that the school sorts this out promptly and properly.

Re: six year olds knowing what they are doing - I think it is complicated. I do believe that most six year olds would understand a basic cause and effect in a situation like this - ie. that hitting or scratching someone will hurt them and upset them. I do also think that most of them know that hurting someone is wrong - I know that I had told my boys that plenty of times by that age. But I don't think that, at that age, they are planning sustained campaigns of nastiness or bullying - I suspect that they tend to react 'in the moment', and without thinking about the rights and wrongs, or the effects of their actions.

coraltoes Wed 13-Feb-13 14:17:49

Let us know how it goes, and I hope your DD bounces back from this sad episode x

BarbarianMum Wed 13-Feb-13 15:59:05

Ok I guess my post wasn't clear.

I agree that the vast majority of six year olds would understand that scraping someone with a stick is unacceptable, naughty and unkind. And I would expect them to face some consequence for doing so (mine would be in big trouble).

But to say a child knows exactly what they were doing suggests a much wider comprehension of the impact of their behaviour on others. However unpleasant the other child was being I doubt she thought about how the OP's child would be in pain for the rest of the day, how much her confidence might be shaken by firstly being hurt and then disbelieved, how it might make her feel about going to school in general. She clearly didn't understand that leaving wounds on someone is going to have pretty big ramifications (for her) later on... That is the sort of bigger picture thinking and empathy for others that develops later on.

So all I'm saying is six year olds do not think like adults. That is why we don't treat them like adults.

Seabird72 Wed 13-Feb-13 16:06:33

Hope she's better today and that the Head is dealing with the matter. It has to be dealt with obviously but my other concern is what if something happened that resulted in DD needing hospital treatment? If the matter isn't reported and on someone's file somewhere (and I read the GP's post that says it had to be recorded by the police rather than a GP) then SS could get involved if the hospital then didn't believe that the injuries were caused at school by another child. It's a "what if" scenario I know but I think when an injury to a child occurs, then as a parent you have to protect yourself these days.

Lollybrolly Wed 13-Feb-13 16:09:13

Gosh I am so shocked treading what has happend to your DD.

I would be so upset and angry too.

I hope all is OK with your daughter today and the Dr is happy there is no infection.

If you have not already been in to see the HT then good luck and hold your head and high and stand firm.

ZenNudist Wed 13-Feb-13 19:18:37

OP did the HT take this seriously? I hope it was resolved to your satisfaction.

Lyrasilvertongued Wed 13-Feb-13 20:06:24

Barbarian the development of theory of mind - the ability to think in the way that others are thinking - begins from around 3 years old, and along with it the ability to empathise with others, so an NT six year old should understand that what they are doing is wrong if they're deliberately inflicting pain on another child. The bigger picture part regarding the extended consequences of what happened doesn't really matter in this circumstance - and actually a lot of adults would struggle with this too which is why sometimes people don't think twice before violent outbursts. However, they still know, or should know, at the time that hurting someone else is wrong even if they're not thinking about what will happen afterwards.

This is beside the point with regard to school's response to the incident, as clearly the child should have been dealt with at the time and OP's dd cared for immediately, so I hope OP managed to have a conversation with the HT today.

Stixswhichtwizzle Wed 13-Feb-13 20:45:34

Any news OP? Did the HT take it seriously?

hermioneweasley Wed 13-Feb-13 21:32:52

I'm late to this one, but am shocked. Hope the HT took it seriously and set out what will happen next.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 13-Feb-13 21:43:07

Im late too, and that HT would have got a real ear bashing,

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Wed 13-Feb-13 21:46:58

Fucking hell. I'd be seething with unbridled RAGE. Your poor dd, how absolutely disgusting that this has happened. Definitely take pictures and make a serious complaint. I hope dd gets over this xx

forgetmenots Wed 13-Feb-13 21:59:45

Just saw this thread - I really hope you managed to see the head and a doctor, OP, your poor DD, how awful.

yummumto3girls Wed 13-Feb-13 22:24:28

This is truly horrible and there is a lot of anger and jumping to conclusions on this thread. I hope your DD is ok. As a previous LEA officer who has supported many child protection investigations I urge you all to approach such matters directly with the Head. A formal complaint needs to be made and a formal investigation needs to be carried out to find out EXACTLY what happened. Speaking to other parents, children, supervisor etc should NOT happen at this stage, it may tamper any investigation process and any outcome. For example if the supervisor is found to have failed in her duty of care and disciplinary proceedings are commenced against her,, any investigation will have to stand up to legal challenge. Please meet with and write to the Headreacher, copy to Chair of Governors and LEA and let them investigate. If they fail to do this then you can take it further. Obtain a copy if the complaints policy. In my opinion this is not a case for the police, the children are 6 and the other child should be dealt with appropriately not via a witch hunt from other parents.

whitby36 Wed 13-Feb-13 23:11:33

How is your dd today?

ScrambledSmegs Wed 13-Feb-13 23:50:28

Hope your DD's ok today OP.

skullcandy Thu 14-Feb-13 10:28:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Just read this - good grief, I've have been just as livid as you. What was the school's response? Hope your DD is feeling better.

armagh Thu 14-Feb-13 11:58:16

I hope your dd is feeling better and you got some satisfaction from the Head teacher and she was as upset as Mumsnetters re treatment of your dd and has set in train investigation of the appalling incident

lindsay321 Thu 14-Feb-13 22:25:25

Another one just checking everything is ok!

thanks

TheSeniorWrangler Fri 15-Feb-13 10:10:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Fri 15-Feb-13 10:33:15

Awful. Hope the school are now dealing with it properly.

cuteboots Fri 15-Feb-13 12:45:25

God this is just awful and I hope it all gets sorted out for you.

Lollybrolly Fri 15-Feb-13 12:52:24

Any news OP? How is your daughter now? And what did the school say?

lljkk Fri 15-Feb-13 13:00:41

.

TattyDevine Fri 15-Feb-13 16:51:15

Cripes

I am a playground supervisor (recently became one, long story, but here I am!) and this astounds me.

Your school may be very different to ours; ours is a fairly small village school and we have reasonable ratios, so its unfathomable to me that something like this would happen where I am. Even a skipping rope flapped in the wrong direction catches our eyes, though we don't like to jump them on every little thing either, but we keep an eye out.

Its awful to think of a chid being told they were being a baby; it would not happen in those circs or any other in our school, though I am imagining the playground supervisor not knowing what damage had been done (which in itself is bad, however there are safeguarding issues surrounding checking under a child's shirt) and at age 6 it is still possible that someone could be quoted out of context but of course that can happen at any age and I'm not saying I think it was the case in this scenario...

I would see the head teacher and take it from there. The mid-day assistants will be questioned, not just one but probably all of them, there may be witnesses as to what happened, and some things may come to light, but if not, the issue has been raised and you can take it from there...

Hope your DD is okay!

Remotecontrolduck Fri 15-Feb-13 17:18:55

Wow, nice to see the supervisor was so caring there!! Victim-blaming much?

Hope she's alright now OP, what a bitch. She should be sacked for showing such a lack of compassion and common sense.

HarrySnotter Fri 15-Feb-13 20:49:59

To update.

Took DD to doc on Wed morning and he was horrified. He cleaned her back up again and gave me some anti b cream in case it became infected (thankfully it hasn't). So off I went to the school and I have to say that the headmistress was just wonderful. I didn't take DD in with me, I just showed her the photos as I didn't want to embarrass DD or have her dwell on it any more than necessary and the headmistress really was pretty gobsmacked to be honest. She couldn't have been more apologetic and she looked really pretty angry by the time I left. I surprised myself by staying quite calm, then I messed it up by bursting into tears but I was so tired as I was so upset I didn't really sleep.

Headteacher promised to investigate and was as good as her word. DH and I were called back to school yesterday for another meeting with her and the lunchtime supervisor who started off being rather defensive and aggressive until she saw the photographs, then was really quite shaken. She has been given a written warning and is being sent on an advanced safeguarding course.

The little girl who caused the injuried denied it completely and blamed another child but unfortunately for her, the child she blamed was on a different sitting for lunch so she kind of got caught out lying. Today DD had an apology from both the little girl and the lunchtime supervisor (who also came over to me in the playground and apologised too) and the headteacher has assured me that they will be keeping an extra eye out to ensure nothing like this happens again.

On another note the kindness and support on this thread since I started it has been just wonderful and you have all been so kind. One mumsnetter in particular (I'd love to say her name but don't want to embarrass her!) sent my DD a very special little friend in the post that she had made herself and it has made her so happy I feel quite tearful. Mumsnet rocks! grin

Thank you for coming back to update us. I'm glad you were listened to by the doctor and headteacher.

BabyRoger Fri 15-Feb-13 20:54:09

So glad you have a good conclusion after all the upset. Hope your DD's back is healing well.

MrsMushroom Fri 15-Feb-13 20:55:25

Oh lovely! I'm so glad DD had a little cheer-me-up gift! grin and so glad they've dealt with it all so well.

CoffeeandDunkingBiscuits Fri 15-Feb-13 21:01:06

Thanks for updating. Glad the school took it so seriously. Hope your dd recovers soon.

Wallace Fri 15-Feb-13 21:02:52

Lovely to hear a positive result smile

CheerfulYank Fri 15-Feb-13 21:09:45

Oh OP I am so glad. I'm almost in tears of relief for you!

BlatantLies Fri 15-Feb-13 21:11:36

That is a great outcome. It seems liked everybody has done the right thing. It will make it easier for you to all move on but not forget

fascicle Fri 15-Feb-13 21:12:29

So glad that the headteacher was so responsive, and appropriate actions have been taken and apologies made. Sounds like you dealt with the matter brilliantly. Hope your DD is feeling better.

diddl Fri 15-Feb-13 21:13:31

Well that´s sounding OK.

IAmLouisWalsh Fri 15-Feb-13 21:14:30

Glad it was all worked out.

Did the lunchtime supervisor see the girl doing it, or just DD afterwards?

Thank you for the update. I am so glad that the school has taken this seriously and that in itself will help your DD to know that if she asks for help it will (even belatedly) come.

As for mumsnet, we are always here to listen and support you.
I love mumsnet smile

YouTheCat Fri 15-Feb-13 21:20:43

What a great ending. I'm so glad the HT took it all seriously.

Stixswhichtwizzle Fri 15-Feb-13 21:22:44

Thanks for updating OP and I'm glad the HT acted appropriately and that your DD is ok.

gwenniebee Fri 15-Feb-13 21:24:27

Oh, I'm so pleased smile I hadn't seen your thread until tonight, but I am pleased you have a good ending. I hope you have a very happy weekend (half term next week too?) with your dd.

gordyslovesheep Fri 15-Feb-13 21:26:55

so glad you got the response you deserved xxxx

hermioneweasley Fri 15-Feb-13 21:28:19

So glad you were listened to and feel satisfied with how it's been handled.

The other little girl sounds a bit disturbed to be honest

Have a lovely weekend with your DD.

weblette Fri 15-Feb-13 21:28:23

Very glad you had an appropriate response from school. How's your dd feeling now?

HarrySnotter Fri 15-Feb-13 21:28:29

Me too Norks smile they're a grand bunch.

HarrySnotter Fri 15-Feb-13 21:31:35

DD is OK thanks I think the thing that upset her most was that she's very fond of the supervisor and couldn't understand why she wouldn't help her at the time. Thankfully she's a pretty resilient wee thing.

weblette Fri 15-Feb-13 21:36:23

Good to hear she's feeling ok smile Must be hard though when your faith in a grown up is shaken sad

PastaB Fri 15-Feb-13 21:55:34

So pleased this was dealt with properly by the school. I hope your DD has a lovely weekend to recover from the week she's had.

ThePathanKhansAmnesiac Fri 15-Feb-13 22:54:12

I,m so glad this has been dealt with well Harry. Have a great. weekend with your dd.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Fri 15-Feb-13 22:57:09

Good! Heartening the school took it all seriously and did the right thing.

Makes me wonder how bad your poor little dd s back was for the photos to shake them though. What a horrible thing to have happened. Well done you for handling it so well! Dd has a great thing going for her - her mum.

Thumbwitch Fri 15-Feb-13 22:58:12

Oh well done Harry - sounds like you did exactly the right things and I'm so glad it all worked out properly although by the sound of it your DD's back must have been in a shocking state indeed, poor little girl!

I hope that this sort of thing never happens again to her or any other child there.

makemineapinot Fri 15-Feb-13 23:00:07

That's great and your dd knows she can trust the adults in her life to keep her safe x

pigletmania Fri 15-Feb-13 23:22:15

That's fantastic, wish all schools were as proactive

SoleSource Sat 16-Feb-13 01:11:40

Brilliant!

For you thanks you handled everything perfectly.

poodletip Sat 16-Feb-13 06:56:18

Sounds like the best outcome you could have hoped for really, well done. I'm glad to hear your DD is doing ok. Are the school going to do anything to help explain to the other children about why she needs a bit of extra attention so that the jealousy thing doesn't cause more problems?

Sounds like a great outcome to me.
It's reassuring to actually see something being done not just to be told it will be iyswim

armagh Sun 17-Feb-13 09:20:52

Thank you for updating. Well done you for the way you handled the issue. I hope your wee dd is on the mend.

Buzzardbird Mon 18-Feb-13 05:43:17

That's great and lovely thought of the mnr who sent the gift.

Cherriesarelovely Mon 18-Feb-13 07:36:46

Really happy to hear about the positive outcome Op. You handled it brilliantly.

grumpyoldbookworm Mon 18-Feb-13 08:03:52

Well done HarrySnotter , hope the bullying girl has learned a lesson here. Hugs

Lottikins Mon 18-Feb-13 09:34:08

I think it was unprofessional of the teacher to tell you
how the MDS had been disciplined though.

goneHaywire Wed 20-Feb-13 08:19:16

I disagree Lottikins she is letting the OP know that the situation has been adequately dealt with.

Lottikins Wed 20-Feb-13 11:51:47

Hmm I am not sure.I think a teacher's disciplinary record needs to be kept confidential from parents and pupils.I know of a very similar situation where the teacher claimed constructive dismissal.

goneHaywire Wed 20-Feb-13 17:19:39

were they actually successful??...

as a parent I would want to know that something had actually been done, rather than being fobbed off with a veil of secrecy... too easy for ppl to say "we've handled it" when in fact nothing has been done.

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