to let my cat have a litter of kittens?

(167 Posts)
StartRight Tue 12-Feb-13 13:43:49

I am hoping for lots of YABU.

We have a 6 month old cat we bought from the local rescue centre. My children (and dh bizarrely) all want to let her have one litter of kittens before we get her neutered.
Even my mum when I ran it past her said it would be a 'wonderful experience' for the children.
We would give the kittens away to friends or the local pet shop.

I don't think it is a good idea. Aside from the obvious problem of too many unwanted cats in the world, I don't want the house overrun with cats and cat litter etc.

I feel like I am being mean, so am wavering hence this thread.

Softlysoftly Tue 12-Feb-13 13:45:26

They ABU say no

Latara Tue 12-Feb-13 13:46:16

YABU as there are too many unwanted cats in animal shelters.

seeker Tue 12-Feb-13 13:46:50

NO.

Get her spayed now. You are absolutely right.

bonzo77 Tue 12-Feb-13 13:47:25

YABU. Ridiculous idea. You knew that. Our cats never had kittens when we were kids. Did not miss out at all. When I was a teenager a friend's cat had kittens. I remember thinking how irresponsible it was.

Marrow Tue 12-Feb-13 13:49:18

Yes, YABU or rather they ABU. You did a great thing getting a rescue cat but please don't add to the problem by breeding your cat. You normally have to sign an agreement with rescue centres that you will get the animal neutered and not breed from it.

Floralnomad Tue 12-Feb-13 13:49:39

YABU unless you personally are going to keep all the kittens for their entire lives . As you got her from a rescue I would imagine that you signed something to say you would have her neutered ASAP. There are just too many cats looking for homes without feckless people breeding more , just for the experience.

peeriebear Tue 12-Feb-13 13:52:36

Nononononooooooooo. So many cats and kittens in rescues precisely because of this sort of thinking (from your family). My cat was neutered as soon as she was old enough and the thought of letting her have a litter first is kerrazy. YANBU, your family is BVU.

Kewcumber Tue 12-Feb-13 13:52:38

So if one litter before being neutered then they (well DH I suppose) are proposing that a barely adolescent cat goes through a pregnancy just so your children can say "Awwww" then you're going to take people away from rescue centres in order to get rid of 2-6 kittens that you don;t actually want.

Your Dh is being outrageously unreasonable.

In fact I'm surprised the local rescue didn't insist you had them neutered as part of the deal. I'm sure they would be horrified.

TheCatIsEatingIt Tue 12-Feb-13 13:53:36

Do pet shops buy kittens from randoms ordinary people rather than breeders?

YABU. You already know why; all the reasons in your OP. Get her spayed.

StartRight Tue 12-Feb-13 13:53:49

Thank you, fantastic responses.

I am ringing the vet today to make an appointment.

I did fill in a form at the shelter asking my opinion on lots of aspects of owning a cat (before we could even view the cats) but don't remember signing anything official. That is beside the point now anyway.
My resolve has been hardened.

scrumpkin Tue 12-Feb-13 13:54:05

Pet shop shock

valiumredhead Tue 12-Feb-13 13:55:00

We did but only because we had owners lined up for each kitten.

Get her spayed, a house full of kittens can be really hard work.

StuntGirl Tue 12-Feb-13 13:55:22

They are being ridiculously unreasonable and irresponsible. You already got your cat from a rescue, why add 6 or so more to the numbers of animals they can barely look after as it is?

Get her neutered NOW. It's part of being a responsible pet owner, which is far more wonderful an experience than any litter of kittens.

Dancergirl Tue 12-Feb-13 13:55:31

Are most cats neutered as a matter of course? We have a CP cat who was of course neutered but I've never really thought about it before. How do they manage to maintain the population if most are neutered?

PurpleRayne Tue 12-Feb-13 13:55:51

You will probably find that the contract you signed with the rescue centre explicitly requires you to have the kitten neutered when old enough. So there's your get-out clause for the children.

I'm amazed that there are still any pet shops that take kittens (are you in the UK?)

You are not being mean to have your kitten neutered. It would however, be selfish, and cruel, to allow yourself to be pushed into an irresponsible decision not to have it neutered.

StartRight Tue 12-Feb-13 13:56:05

Why 'pet shop shock?

CelticPromise Tue 12-Feb-13 13:56:11

They ABU.

We've just adopted a stray cat about seven or eight months old, she's being spayed today. She had been out and about before we got her, but the vet's advice was that even if she was in early pregnancy they would go ahead and spay because being young and small it would be risky for her to have kittens, and they would add to the unwanted cat problem.

CartedOff Tue 12-Feb-13 13:56:18

It would be extremely unreasonable. Deciding that the cat has to get pregnant and have kittens just for your family's temporary amusement isn't fair on it or the kittens that may very well end up without a home, or homed and then kicked out at a later point when people get sick of them (kittens are stressful, destructive and a pain in the ass, despite how cute they appear).

lollilou Tue 12-Feb-13 13:57:11

They abu. My sisters young cat had a litter and she could not look after them at all, all I want to say is that they did not survive. Let alone the amount of cats and kittens in animal shelters already.

StuntGirl Tue 12-Feb-13 13:58:10

I'm actually astounded that the rescue centre didn't have her neutered anyway. We're looking into getting a rescue dog and every single one of them comes neutered, to stop precisely this situation.

If I were you I'd book the appointment and do it without even telling your family beforehand. Someone needs to put this animal first for once in it's life, let that person be you.

CelticPromise Tue 12-Feb-13 14:00:26

Dancer there are plenty of cats out there maintaining the population! My new one is one of three kittens born to a stray mum, thankfully mum has now been adopted and will hopefully be spayed but plenty aren't, and they have litter after litter.

Fairylea Tue 12-Feb-13 14:00:28

No no no. Sorry but no.

You are right.

There are too many unwanted cats in this world.

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 12-Feb-13 14:00:41

Please have her neutered.

If your family really don't understand why then try and explain the bigger picture to them.

You let your cat have, say, 5 kittens.

In 6 months time those 5 kittens are allowed to have 5 kittens each.

6 months later those 25 cats are allowed 5 kittens each.

6 months later those 125 cats have 5 kittens each.

That's 635 kittens in a year and a half.

And that's presuming each kitten gets a responsible (by your family's standards) owner who only breeds from each cat once.

You've been to a rescue centre. Why would you purposely add to it?

Theicingontop Tue 12-Feb-13 14:03:27

You could take the children to see a local cat shelter to help them understand where you're coming from, depending on how old they are.

Midori1999 Tue 12-Feb-13 14:03:28

YWBVU.

For a start, you don't 'buy' a cat from a rescue centre (at least, not in the UK) and a rescue centre would be furious if you bred from a cat you got from them, you might even be breaking your contract with them and in most cases the cat remains the property of the rescue centre.

Then there is the fact that there are thousands of cats in rescue, without homes and being put to sleep due to lack of homes. Giving kittens away to friends or to pet shops who won't give a shiny shit where they sell them to and shouldn't even be allowed to sell animals, IMO, is not a thoughtful way to rehome them.

As for it being a 'wonderful' experience for your children, it might be if it all goes well, but if your cat dies of pyometra (serious womb infection which un neutered cats are very prone to) before she even gets pregnant, or if all the kittens die or get sick or if she dies during the pregnancy do birth, it won't be so wonderful, will it?

Please don't do this, it is thoughtless and potentially cruel. Please get your kitten neutered before she goes outside, she is far too young to have kittens.

"How do they manage to maintain the population if most are neutered"

Because most cats aren't neutered and as long as they are well fed, Queens come constatly into season and have litter after litter.

It is painfull and distressing for Queens to be on heat, there is nothing cute about it, or about the lads catching young cats to train their dogs to kill.

Not to mention that there is a dislike of cats and they are targeted for torture for "fun".

I know of a group that used to buy/catch black and white kittens because they thought it was easier for the dogs to see them.

It might be sentamental but i couldn't feel responsible and loving towards my cats but not care what happened to their kittens.

If children want amazing experiences then take them on a days volunteering at an animal shelter.

Pootles2010 Tue 12-Feb-13 14:06:08

Agree with theicing - they could have a 'wonderful experience' helping out at the shelter - if they're old enough, obv. Definitely neuter. Slightly suprised shelter didn't do it - all our cats from shelters have been 'done', didn't realise it wasn't standard.

GetOrf Tue 12-Feb-13 14:06:59

What everyone else said.

You need to get the kitten neutered as soon as you can.

I am also a bit surprised that the rescue didn't make sure the cat was neutered before you had it.

TalkativeJim Tue 12-Feb-13 14:07:42

Ridiculously unreasonable and irresponsible of your DH and a terrible example of animal welfare to show to your children

StuntGirl Tue 12-Feb-13 14:07:51

If children want amazing experiences then take them on a days volunteering at an animal shelter.

This.

I'm actually more annoyed at your husband and mum. Your children are too young to understand the full implications of this, but your husband and mum are most certainly not.

StartRight Tue 12-Feb-13 14:09:04

Again thanks for the unanimous replies. This is just what I needed.

I have just rang the vet and have got Tiptoes booked in to be spayed this Friday. I am not going to tell the children until it is done. Phew, I feel relieved.

StartRight Tue 12-Feb-13 14:12:06

Tiptoes is 6 months old now but only 12 weeks when we got her which, I assume, is why she hadn't already been spayed.

VeryDullNameChange Tue 12-Feb-13 14:15:55

YABU, take them to the shelter and let the staff there explain why it's not a good idea. If you have space maybe you could foster a mum and kittens some time.

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Feb-13 14:16:00

Midori - we kind of bought our cat from the rescue centre, in that we had to hand over £80 or something (possibly a bit more). Officially I suppose it's a donation, but they (at least this one) never give pets away.

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Feb-13 14:17:24

Oh and you are of course 100% correct OP. Your dm and dh are being nuts.

FireFoot Tue 12-Feb-13 14:20:31

I agree with taking the kids to the local shelter if they are old enough. Get them some part time work. There is a big demand for this at horse stables. Typically they'll give your children lessons in exchange for working at the stables. This is a great experience builder for children in my opinion. It teaches them responsiblity and teaches them about doing work to earn something. Depends on how old they are of course.

My local Cats Protection League was happy for children to do Kitten Cuddling" - I guess to help get the kittens used to children before rehoming. Maybe as the rescue about this instead!

Branleuse Tue 12-Feb-13 14:23:20

yabu, they change after a litter and are never as kittenlike again.

plus there are so many unwanted kittens

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 12-Feb-13 14:26:00

Glad you've made the right decision, it I disagree with not telling your children. I think sitting them down and explaining it properly would be better.

SilverOldie Tue 12-Feb-13 14:28:41

Please don't, there are thousands of animals in shelters who need good homes. As for selling to a pet shop shock that's a horrible idea and I think it's time for pet shops to be banned from selling any animals.

Empress77 Tue 12-Feb-13 14:31:20

So glad you've decided to get her spayed! just wanted to ditto everyone else above as far too many unwanted cats with no homes in the UK its ridiculous (such a joke were considered a nation of animal lovers when its something like 5000 unwanted pets get euthanised a year from lack of space). Also wanted to point out the chances of the cat pregnancy not going to plan and the children seeing the kittens still born or an emergency csection etc and risk to cats life (& huge huge vet bills!). Your definitely doing the right thing getting her spayed nowxx

StuntGirl Tue 12-Feb-13 14:32:37

I'm glad you've made the right decision (which you knew anyway!) Tiptoes will thank you grin

mmmuffins Tue 12-Feb-13 14:41:39

I wrote a list of reasons as to why this is a horrendous idea but then noticed you'd posted again!

Well done OP on doing the right thing. Enjoy your pet.

saycheeeeeese Tue 12-Feb-13 14:42:27

I remember once a lady I got my kittens from (she rescued and hand reared the) told me that its actually dangerous for a cat to have kittens (due to mutations abd inbreeding etc) it increases their risk of uterine cancer in later life and can cause a multitude of problems.

Also, I couldn't bear to see my two precious girls go through childbirth they're my baaaaaaabies!!!

saycheeeeeese Tue 12-Feb-13 14:42:58

Glad to see you decided against it op!

Latara Tue 12-Feb-13 14:43:20

This may be TMI sorry, but intercourse is VERY painful for female cats & can injure them if they are young.

Never allow an unneutered female young cat / kitten near a tom cat for this reason; one of my friends had a female kitten that got badly torn inside by an attack from an unneutered tom cat.

Glad you are getting the cat spayed.

StartRight Tue 12-Feb-13 14:47:28

smile Stuntgirl

Latara gruesome story. How would getting a cat neutered stop unwanted Tom cat attention though? Can they sense these things?

Narked Tue 12-Feb-13 14:50:20

Please get her spayed. And tell your DH and mother they should know better.

TheElephantIsADaintyBird Tue 12-Feb-13 14:51:53

Yanbu, how refreshing to see!

Show the kids a video of a woman giving birth, that'll be a wonderful experience for them wink

catsrus Tue 12-Feb-13 14:52:12

if you want to know what female cats have to put up with - have a look at this national geographic youtube video

shock

and no - please do not have a litter of kittens and it probably is against the documents you signed when you rescued yours. IIRC the RSPCA gave us a voucher to use at our vets which covered the cost and the vet sent back to them to prove we'd done it.

fuzzypicklehead Tue 12-Feb-13 14:52:13

OMG, yes the Tom cat can sense it. From a huge distance! Even before all the issues around pregnancy/kittenhood, a female in season is no treat to be dealing with.

MrsReiver Tue 12-Feb-13 14:52:20

Yes, if Tiptoes is spayed she won't go into heat and tom cats won't be remotely interested in her.

BonaDea Tue 12-Feb-13 14:52:52

Do NOT do this. 'Wonderful experience' for the kids my ass. They'll grow to love these little creatures then they will all disappear.

More importantly, what about your poor cat. Look after her, love her, don't let her get up the duff only to take her litter from her.

URGH.

NatashaBee Tue 12-Feb-13 14:52:53

Good for you OP. I volunteer at an animal shelter, we get cats and kittens dumped on the doorstep in boxes each week). Celia Hammond's facebook page is really good reading - they are currently posting a lot of information on why cats should be neutered.

Latara Tue 12-Feb-13 14:53:37

StartRight - i'm not sure tbh as there is only 1 unneutered tom cat locally who did try to attack my neutered cat - she fought him off but got a badly scratched eye (all fine now & he hasn't made that mistake again).

The other local boy cats are all neutered but they still follow my female cat just to stare at her - they know they like her but don't seem to know why! They are just curious about everything she does bless them.

Trazzletoes Tue 12-Feb-13 14:59:57

So pleased you are getting her done, OP.

You are absolutely doing the right thing.

Midori1999 Tue 12-Feb-13 15:27:32

jenai all rescues charge an 'adoption fee' or ask for a donation of a specific amount to adopt the pet. This is in part to cover their costs, but also because research shows that people who pay a decent amount for their pets are more likely in general to hold the animal in higher regard. It doesn't mean you have 'bought' the cat and a good rescue will ensure you sign something that says ownership remains with them.

EuroShagmore Tue 12-Feb-13 15:32:09

Good decision.

I suspect your children would be less keen on this idea when you have to give them away. Protect them from that heartache.

FrankSpenser Tue 12-Feb-13 15:44:25

I'm echoing everything mentioned on here already, and good for you in booking Tiptoes (great name!) for the vets.

I visited a cat rescue home only last week to view two young kittens as potential adoptees. The lady running the joint was rushed off her feet, her home absolutly full with stray, unwanted, and some feral cats. She "begs, steals and borrows" to fund the keep of animals in her care (she's a registered charity so money comes from donations, other times from her own pocket). For her the work is just relentless.

Its people like her who really do alot for unwanted animals. People really need to be educated when deciding to let their moggies breed, and your DM and DH should've known the wider implications, but at least you had the sense to know better.

Smellslikecatspee Tue 12-Feb-13 15:50:26

Good Woman!

My two were at the vets at 08:30 of the first day that the vet would spay them. Which is when we found out we didn't have 2 girls we had one of each. grin
Lucky he had a unisex name.

cantspel Tue 12-Feb-13 15:53:57

Glad you are not going to listen to your stupid oh.

Get her done asap and take your children and husband to your local rescue centre to hear to see what these good people are already trying to cope with.
To see these loving animals unwanted and waiting for some kindly soul to fall in love with them and give them a home.

skyblue11 Tue 12-Feb-13 15:55:03

Please,please do not do this. Speaking as an ex cat fosterer for Cats Protection there are too many cats that desperately need homes without adding any more.

andubelievedthat Tue 12-Feb-13 16:02:00

So, (just out of curiosity?) where you neutered ?at any time /point ? ever ? and if so, did you agree to that ,? did you have a say in that ? or, is it "feminism? we can not only decide for our own life/bodies , but that of other species?We have to decide when /if other species breed ! oh for fuck sake , if , you did not want a "breeder " u should have got a tom.(soz re crappo spelling , >off to reasure drama queen pussy )

lollilou Tue 12-Feb-13 16:05:28

andubelievedthat I don't understand a word of your post.

Smellslikecatspee Tue 12-Feb-13 16:07:07

What the actual fuck?

FrankSpenser Tue 12-Feb-13 16:07:35

Ooh - this might get interesting! grin

valiumredhead Tue 12-Feb-13 16:08:07

So if you have a cat you shouldn't have it spayed as you weren't spayed yourself? Are you serious? grin

VeryDullNameChange Tue 12-Feb-13 16:08:46

I do understand, but rather wish I didn't.

cantspel Tue 12-Feb-13 16:10:40

Hell and i thought i wrote some crap at times.

ProtegeMoi Tue 12-Feb-13 16:11:29

YABU I work in cat rescue and we very often phone local bets of people who have adopted cats from us, if we found out a rescue had been bred from (we neuter all over 6 months) then we would take the cat back. The contract clearly states this is not allowed and that the the cat remains property of the rescue. AFAIK all UK rescues work in the same way.

cantspel Tue 12-Feb-13 16:12:10

and no you shouldn't get a tom if you dont want kittens.

The owners of toms should also take responsibility and get their toms neutered

FrankSpenser Tue 12-Feb-13 16:12:58

" if , you did not want a "breeder " u should have got a tom."

^

Isn't that like putting your fingers in your ears/hands over your eyes and saying, "la la laaa, if I cant see the litters, they're not really there, la la laaa" confused

Female moggies don't become pregnant by themselves, don' cha ya'know.

valiumredhead Tue 12-Feb-13 16:14:30

andubelievedthat your cat might be a 'drama queen' because cats are miserable if the come into heat and can't mate, the wails are pitiful - much kinder all round to get them spayed or neutered.

ComposHat Tue 12-Feb-13 16:24:47

I am amazed she wasn't spayed when she left the rescue place or you were made to agree to have her spayed.

For all the reasons people have said above have her spayed.

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 12-Feb-13 16:26:30

confused

ComposHat Tue 12-Feb-13 16:28:27

if , you did not want a "breeder " u should have got a tom

Two things.

1) It is the responsibility of all cat owners to have their cats neutered regardless of gender. The whole it takes two to tango thing.

2) What kind of crazy fuck wants to live with an unneutered tomcat in the house. They are often aggressive, highly territorial, prone to fighting and spray their scent all over the place

HansieMom Tue 12-Feb-13 16:30:06

I took two to be fixed to the vet as Lily and Ruby. They came home as Max and Ruby. Our GS named one cat that appeared on our porch as Rosie. He is still Rosie, much bigger and no one would think him a girl now.

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Feb-13 16:39:30

I have a Mirena coil. Does that count? confused

And the award for most bizarre post of the day goes to...confused

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Feb-13 16:52:12

Midori I don't remember what the small print said wrt ownership, althoguh lovely as she is I doubt they'd want her back grin

StuntGirl Tue 12-Feb-13 17:02:14

Feminism for cats <snort> grin

StartRight Tue 12-Feb-13 17:15:33

andubelievedthat I am not anthropomorphically inclined. Very bizarre post!

I previously had 2 Toms and both were neutered at an early age. Males are 'breeders' too you know.

Rikalaily Tue 12-Feb-13 17:32:28

I'm suprised the rescue hadn't spayed her before they rehomed, thats very lax of them! Our dog wasn't neutered before we got him at 7 months from a rescue, but he's a big breed and it's best to wait to neuter them - But it was in our rescue contract that we not breed from him and have him castrated at 12 months old, which we gladly did.

If you breed her you are adding to the problem of cats in rescues, your cat could have 4-6 kittens, then they could go on to have 4-6 each and so on, within just 2-3 years you have thousands more cats that need homes and all because you wanted to breed your cat.

If you breed her you are risking her health/life, could you bear to lose her and her litter? Could you put her through/ afford a c section if it's needed?

You risk her catching a nasty infection and then posssibly passing that to her kittens/ She may already have corona virus from her mum and it's a heartbreaking virus if it mutates. I had to have one of my cats put to sleep last year after the corona virus (which was passed to her from her mum) mutated into FIP, it was absolutely heartbreaking to see what it did to her and we did everything we could until the end. It's a fatal condition, no cure and many cats are carriers.

Your children will gain nothing from breeding your cat, I find it so rediculous that people think they will gain something from it, what will they gain apart from the upset of rehoming all of the kittens?

My mum didn't spay our cat growing up and the poor thing was pregnant again before her current litter was weaned, she had loads of kittens and the only thing it taught me was to get my animals neutered. Female cats make an awful mess spraying and an awful noise calling when they are in season, yowling constantly, tom cats yowling and fighting all day and night, peeing up your windows and doors, I hated it as a kid listening to that all night and I even had to deliver a stuck kitten when she decided to have them under my bed - Not a nice experience at all, any of it.

Get her spayed now before she has her first season, if she comes into season and gets out it's too late and believe me it's next to impossible to keep a cat in call in, the little hussies will do anything to get to the local toms. Unloess you are a proffessional breeder, if you love your cat you will get her spayed.

I'm suprised the rescue hadn't spayed her before they rehomed, thats very lax of them!

No it wasn't... The kitten was only 12 weeks old when it left the rescue.

gordyslovesheep Tue 12-Feb-13 17:38:03

cats can be neutered at 16 weeks - feminists or not

AmberSocks Tue 12-Feb-13 17:39:50

I have cats and let them have a litter before being neutured.I always know people who want cats so they are always cared for and we have a big house so idontmmind lotsof cats about the place,in fact i love it!

I would get one from a sanctuary but whenever ive tried they have always said they wont let me because i have too many children under 5(4 under 5,3 under 5 last time i tried to get one)

issey6cats Tue 12-Feb-13 17:42:15

please please get her neutered the rescue i work at has 1000 yes 1000 cats on thier waiting list to come into the center, nearly 50 cats and kittens in foster homes all of these will have to come back to the center priority before the waiting list to be rehomed, evry week we get about 20 phone calls for people who want thier cats rehomed and it is not easy having to tell these people that the waiting list is now about 8 months long and thats being optimistic, im also surprised she didnt come neutered the vets we use neuters at ten weeks old and a lot of vets are neutering earlier than they used to

CartedOff Tue 12-Feb-13 17:42:16

I would definitely read a book titled 'Feminism for Cats.'

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Feb-13 17:45:15

Amber those kittens you found homes for - if you'd not allowed them to be conceived their new families might have taken one of the thousands of cats languishing in rescue centres.

FatherReboolaConundrum Tue 12-Feb-13 17:53:02

I'm suprised the rescue hadn't spayed her before they rehomed

I'm not. Last year we tried to rehome a cat from the RSPCA. It hadn't been neutered, but I thought that was a one off. The poor cat died before we could rehome it, so we rehomed another cat from the RSPCA. This one hadn't been spayed (and the fosterer had "forgotten" to take her for her booster jabs, and hadn't wormed her or properly treated her skin condition). I'm starting to wonder if it's unofficial RSPCA money-saving policy not to neuter their rescue cats. Even if it's just coincidence, I'm not impressed.

OP, you've made the right decision.

Pufflemum Tue 12-Feb-13 17:57:18

I have just had our 9 month kitten spayed. I would tell your children in advance what is happening because my little ones were really upset when they saw the patch of shaved fur on the cat. In fact they cried for hours and wouldn't look at the cat for days, they were also hysterical if she licked her wound as the vet very helpfully asked them to make sure she didn't as it could be dangerous for the cat! Two weeks later and both cat and kids are fine and friends again! Good luck.

campion Tue 12-Feb-13 18:11:15

DHs Dn - grown woman- 'likes her cats to have one litter of kittens' before she has them 'done'. Thus lots of extra unwanted cats, and when I asked DBinL (her father) why, he got quite uppity and thought I was unreasonable.

It's a crazy idea.

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Feb-13 18:25:33

Blimey campoin. Some people really are loons.

I struggle to stay civil when relatives of mine insist on buying yet another pedigree kitten when the last one has met a sticky end. I'm possibly a bit hardcore though - I couldn't justify fuelling the market for pedigrees when there are poor moggies stuck in rescue centres.

VeryDullNameChange Tue 12-Feb-13 18:40:50

Against the grain, a stray cat we took in did have kittens when we were teens, and it was a fantastic experience (_even though_ she did eat a couple of the newborns and another two died randomly later on - very inbred colony). I'm planning on fostering a mum and kittens for the local rescue this year partly because I think my DC will love it - but I'd be a bit careful about really small DCs because of the whole eating their young thing.

Still doesn't make it OK to deliberately breed from a cat though.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Tue 12-Feb-13 18:47:15

We adopted two 10week old kittens from the RSPCA 7 years ago. We had to sign a piece of paper saying we'd get them both neutered (1boy, 1 girl) at 20wks of age. In return the RSPCA paid half the costs of the operations - our local vet handled the paperwork.

Rescue should have neutered her really before rehoming..

Questions to ask yourself before breeding:

1) do I have the money for a caesarean/veterinary assistance if necessary? Caesars cost £500-£1000 round here depending on vet/time of day etc. Could be more than that down south.

2) do I have the time to socialise the kittens adequately while they are with you (spending time with each individual kitten several times a day)

3) do I have the time/energy/willingness to bottle feed kittens if mum is ill/dies/cannot produce enough milk? They would need feeding every 2-4 hours for several weeks?

4) do have enough friends lined up for all the kittens? Would I feel comfortable giving them to a pet shop where anyone could get them (including some very irresponsible people)?

5) will my children cope emotionally with mum getting ill/kittens dying? Kittens dying is not an uncommon occurrence under 5 weeks.

6) is mum fully vaccinated/wormed (can give nasty things to kittens in utero otherwise)?

StuntGirl Tue 12-Feb-13 19:09:10

Amber those kittens you found homes for - if you'd not allowed them to be conceived their new families might have taken one of the thousands of cats languishing in rescue centres.

^ This. It's grossly irresponsible pet ownership.

Bakingtins Tue 12-Feb-13 19:47:59

I'm glad you decided to get her neutered. There are far too many unwanted kittens and older cats. All the rescues are bursting at the seams.

AmberSocks Tue 12-Feb-13 20:39:24

not true.they didnt want ones from a rescue centre,and as i said its arder then they make out,lots of people try but are then told they cant

if other people arent responsible for their cats and just leave them in bin bags on the side of the road,that is not my fault,i look after my cats and take responsibility for any kittens they have had,if others choose not to do the same its their fault not mine

countrykitten Tue 12-Feb-13 20:40:21

Ambersocks how bloody irresponsible of you and needless too. You are contributing to the overpopulation of cats in the UK - and quite happy to do so by the sounds of things. At least you get them spayed eventually - for that we can be grateful.

OP - well done you. You have definitely made the right decision and your cat will be much happier for it. We are about to have our female kitten spayed too.

apostropheuse Tue 12-Feb-13 20:59:49

My two female cats were adopted from Cats Protection at about four/five months old. I had to agree to them beng spayed - it wasn't possible for them to be done before I took them home for various reasons. I seem to remember having to get the vet to send something to the Centre to prove they'd had the operation.

I'm glad you have her booked in for the operation, OP. It's the responsible thing to do.

I cannot believe anyone with any modicum of intelligence would let their cat have kittens in a country where we are over-run with homeless cats. The centres are at full to busting point and are desparate for good homes for these animals who already exist and need to be taken care of.

I had no trouble getting our girls from Cats Protection. They did a home visit, interviewed us and all was fine. My grandson was two at the time and it wasn't a problem. We were given kittens in fact, so that the kittens and my grandson would get used to each other and he could be shown how to treat animals kindly etc, but at the same time the kittens had no fear of him or anyone as they had no "baggage". It's all worked out wonderfully and one of the cats in particular now thinks she's his mother.

Trazzletoes Tue 12-Feb-13 21:34:44

I can understand what Amber is saying to an extent (though I completely disagree with it) as we were refused by all the local rescue centres due to being relatively close to a busy road and at work during the day.

We were fortunate to be able to get our gorgeous girls from a "professional rescuer" who was known to family but I have to say otherwise we would have remained cat-less.

Trazzletoes Tue 12-Feb-13 21:36:31

By professional rescuer, I mean a lovely little old lady whose house was overrun with cats as she couldn't bear to see them risk being put down.

apostropheuse Tue 12-Feb-13 21:39:03

trazzletoes the centres sometimes have some "indoor" cats who can't go out for various reasons, or have always lived indoors in their previous home. Perhaps that would have been an option for you - or for anyone else who would like a cat but live in an area deemed unsuitable for cats who go outdoors.

pooka Tue 12-Feb-13 21:39:21

They are being unreasonable.

Stay firm.

A litter of kittens, all of whom would go to new homes where you'd have no control over their reproductive future = too many cats when there are plenty of cats needing good homes.

Trazzletoes Tue 12-Feb-13 21:45:44

apos the fact that we worked outside the home was also an automatic refusal.

And I was definitely not saying Amber was right! I think it's appalling to breed from cats in this day and age. There is no need for a cat to have a litter.

Our 2 are still rescued. A man was paid to shoot them(!!) but couldn't bring himself to do it, thank god. I just feel that it's a shame that rescue centres have such stringent criteria and rule out many potentially good homes, though obviously they have their criteria for a reason.

Lovecat Tue 12-Feb-13 21:48:50

So glad you're having her spayed, OP!

As I type this I have 3 kittens running round my feet/over the keyboard/my head/up my leg and their mum is shut in the kitchen as she has cat flu and we have to keep them apart - we adopted them a week ago. The poor mother cat, who is barely a year old, originally had a collar on her and is definitely domesticated - rescue centre presumed she was abandoned because her fuckwit owners didn't bother to spay her and she'd got pregnant - she was found under a shed with 5 kittens (the other 2 have been homed, would have loved to have them all but six cats?!).

They are lovely but OMG they are destructive little gits! Anything left on the floor is pooed on (at least it's teaching DD not to strew her clothes all over the floor when she gets undressed) and they like to do circuits of the house at midnight... in the meantime the poor mum is recovering from being spayed and is v. snuffly with cat flu, costing us a fortune at the vets...

All 3 kits are girls, they will be spayed as soon as they hit 16 weeks.

As NatashaBee says, Celia Hammond on Facebook is doing loads of posts at the moment why not to breed from your cat, they tackle the 'great experience for the children' bollocks there.

gordyslovesheep Tue 12-Feb-13 21:50:05

Amber the reason it's (H)ard is for WELFARE reasons - so you are basically going against that - well done - have a prize

CelticPromise Tue 12-Feb-13 21:54:28

Trazzle we were also refused a cat by the RSPCA because of our busy road. Eventually a lovely slightly crazy lady who volunteered for CP gave us a rescue cat, but she said she'd have to write on the admin that she was homed as an indoor cat. She told us herself that the cat wouldn't be happy indoors and she knew we had a cat flap. smile

apostropheuse Tue 12-Feb-13 21:54:47

trazzletoes I'm glad you did rescue your two. It's great that you gave them a home - and it meant there would be two less for the Rescues to have to deal with.

It's strange really, I suppose the Rescue people must all have different criteria. I work full-time and my daughter at that point was out all day at university. Perhaps some of it is even down to who actually interviews you. Who knows? !

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 12-Feb-13 22:48:59

AmberSocks did you not read my post earlier? Or do you just not care?

If all the people you give these kitten to have the same ridiculous ideas as you then within just 18 months you could potentially be responsible for the existence of 625 cats.

Do you honestly know they will all be cared for? That's pretty impressive.

Trazzletoes Tue 12-Feb-13 23:07:19

apos I'm glad too. They are lovely warm furry bundles of happiness.

How anyone could pay someone to hold a gun to the head of 3 day old kittens (as they were) defeats me.

floweryblue Tue 12-Feb-13 23:28:05

To all those picking a fight with amber

Some of us live on farms, in the countyside, cats are helpful when it comes to vermin, as are dogs.

I don't live on a farm but my DP's dog (bitch, ready to go) and my cat (neutered male), have a lovely life. DP has made the decision not to sterilize our bitch, I made the decision neuter our cat.

18 months and 625 cats is a silly statement, even though, statistically, it is possible

Trazzletoes Tue 12-Feb-13 23:31:44

flowery my 2 beautiful girls (that nearly got shot) were the unwanted product of a farmer who stupidly believes his Queens make better ratters because they are not neutered/spayed (whatever, I always get the wrong terminology!).

Anyway, it's not true, to my understanding, and there is no reason to allow your cats to breed unless you personally can take responsibility for those kittens throughout their lives.

AmberSocks Tue 12-Feb-13 23:41:27

itstrue ime,my catsalways stop hunting once they have been spayed

seeker Tue 12-Feb-13 23:47:09

Mine didn't.

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 12-Feb-13 23:49:42

It's not silly at all, it's completely possible, it's why there are literally thousands of cats in rescue centres. If you live on a farm and want lots of cats then adopt lots of cats.

I've never had a cat that didn't hunt, spaying/neutering has never made a jot of difference.

JenaiMorris Tue 12-Feb-13 23:57:28

There are lots of feral and semi-feral cats at our local rescue centre that need to be re-homed on farms rather than in average domestic settings.

IME left to their own devices (so "free" to have as many litters as they want - like they have a choice hmm ), cats in farm colonies have short, hard lives.

AmberSocks Wed 13-Feb-13 00:02:41

You can get contraception for cats,i would rather do that.

seeker Wed 13-Feb-13 00:06:52

"You can get contraception for cats,i would rather do that."

1. Why?
2. Do you?

JenaiMorris Wed 13-Feb-13 00:19:23

Better sex education and more easily accessible family planning clinics is what cats need. hmm

nametakenagain Wed 13-Feb-13 00:23:43

Noooooo, sorry. i had this dilemma - I have one of the prettiest fluffiest cats and I was really sure that we would have had no problem finding them homes- but when a colleague pointed out how many cats are homeless, I ad to accept it would be irresponsible to let her have kittens.

AmberSocks Wed 13-Feb-13 01:09:02

you can get the pill for cats.

Ullena Wed 13-Feb-13 02:12:49

Yes, there are currently too many at present, so it is important to sterilise them...but I do hope we never end up in a world where there are only pedigrees and no moggies. Like to believe there will one day be a sensible sized cat population, that still includes moggies.

As from personal experience, pedigree cats are ten times the price and half the fun.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 13-Feb-13 06:44:06

How much does the pill for cats cost? A bloody fortune no doubt, an probably a pita to give to them. Silly idea imvho

Abigail9580 Wed 13-Feb-13 06:46:39

Don't do it! Too many unwanted kittens about already. And if you have friends that want a cat, direct them to the rescue centre.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 13-Feb-13 06:50:54

OP

Don't lie to your children. Teaching them they can't have evrything they want is important an experiebce as having kittens would be. Imo

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 13-Feb-13 06:51:36

And being mean with good reason is part of being a parent

Trazzletoes Wed 13-Feb-13 06:53:06

Hahaha just imagining chasing Trazzle-cat #1 round the house for enforced tablet-taking every day grin

Yes, I'm sure that (and the calling and the painful mating and dangers of giving birth) is much more pleasant for her than a short operation.

She also clearly didn't get the memo about stopping hunting after the op... Dammit!

my catsalways stop hunting once they have been spayed

Mine haven't!

PMSL at giving contraception to cats. Yes, I can see that working well for mine. I had to give Ginger Kitty Antibiotics for about a month when she first came to me - it wasutter hell. Stressful for her and stressful for me.

Putting it in food is no also use (tried it).

My dog, OTOH, shove it in cheese, job done.

I don't doubt contraception is available for cats but I imagine it is more for breeders who do not want their cat to have litter after litter and only have planned matings.

There are other health benefits of spaying to a female cat though which IMO makes spaying the best option for a non-breeding moggy.

Lonecatwithkitten Wed 13-Feb-13 07:38:01

Contraception for cats is very risky it carries significant high risk side effects and should never be entered into lightly.

poachedeggs Wed 13-Feb-13 07:43:34

These loons people with several cats in their home are also causing welfare problems. Cats are not naturally content to share territory in close confines and as a vet I repeatedly see cats with toileting problems, urinary tract disease and behavioural troubles as a direct result of their inappropriate living conditions. So no Amber, you aren't doing it for the cats.

Neutering cats prevent transmission of disease ( feline leukaemia virus, feline immunodeficiency virus, cat flu... ), reduces road deaths, and reduces fighting and related injuries. So it directly benefits the individual as wellas the population as whole.

AmberSocks Wed 13-Feb-13 09:09:05

my cats get on really well,have none of theproblems you mentioned.and i have 5.so does my sil and mil.

but then if you are a vet its not an opinion im interested in,as its just a business like everything else.

RandallPinkFloyd Wed 13-Feb-13 09:12:13

<head desk>

5 neutered cats, Amber?

Mymblesdaughter Wed 13-Feb-13 10:52:40

Why not foster a Mum cat and kittens for your local rescue? I did a couple of years ago and it was great fun. It was a lot of work though, they are mucky little critters.
The only down side was letting them go. The rescue I fostered them for makes sure they stay in twos. So Mum went with one of her kittens and I ended up keeping the other two as no home could be found for them. It was all very upsetting for me though. They have a great family bond and I felt cruel splitting them up. I had a good cry on the day they were split. Mine were lucky as well they got to stay with their Mum for about 5 months.

Baffledandbewildered Wed 13-Feb-13 11:41:18

No don't do it. We breed pedigree cats and its no always plane sailing. It might be a nice experience for your children it might also be upsetting kitten have a high mortality rate mother cats get ill and die sometimes. Your family are being very irresponsible. Also I'm guessing your cat will be let out to be mated !!! Again she could be killed the stud cat in this situation would not have been health checked and no responsible stud cat owner would allow the use of their boy. Stick to your gun ignor your husband smile

Baffledandbewildered Wed 13-Feb-13 11:44:29

Oh and don't forget you really should keep them until they are at least 12 weeks as they do need their mother for this length of time

StuntGirl Wed 13-Feb-13 15:47:10

You're talking to a brick wall guys. She's right and she's gonna do what she likes anyway dammit <stamps foot>

<eye roll>

dobby2001 Wed 13-Feb-13 15:53:27

I am a firm beleiver in neutering of both male and female domestic animals, for all the reasons that are listed here already. Celia Hammond trust have some excellent info on facebook right now as to why you should do this, will see if I can find a link

seeker Wed 13-Feb-13 16:20:16

Oh, god- there are some weirdo animal people. I know someone who thinks that animals shouldn't be guide dogs because it's degrading to enslave them. I can well believe that there are people who think that domestic animals should be allowed to explore their sexuality. Sadly.

GetOrf Wed 13-Feb-13 16:56:36

lol at cats exploring their sexuality.

It is not true that spayed cats stop hunting. Please tell that to the collection of mice, bats and songbirds hunted down by my (spayed) cats.

My dog enjoys exploring his sexuality. Usually with my leg hmm

ComposHat Wed 13-Feb-13 17:34:31

It is not true that spayed cats stop hunting.

I can confirm this, we used to come downstairs to a regular bird/mouse autopsy as performed by our neutered female cat.

gordyslovesheep Wed 13-Feb-13 17:37:35

My boy cat brings home voles and rats - and leave them in bit on the patio - he is lovely! He doesn't spray though thank god since he was done

Amber doesn;t even answer questions so no way is anyone going to change her mind - sadly the world if full or awful negligent animal owner who know best

I have 2 cats - they both has their own hidey places and don't have to mix - they do curl up together when I am not looking though

ComposHat Wed 13-Feb-13 17:43:00

several cats in their home are also causing welfare problems. Cats are not naturally content to share territory in close confines

That makes me feel better, our cat is a house cat (not through choice, we got her from a rescue centre and she had never been outside aged 8) and I was worried she might have been lonely and was missing out from not having feline company.

She does seem a happy, if demanding (typical tortoiseshell) little thing.

JenaiMorris Wed 13-Feb-13 17:57:50

Ours was kept in a carrier for most of her life. One of her brothers had deformed legs as a result of being kept in those conditions. They rescued 12 cats from the one owner.

When she came to us first, she was ever so timid and hid in her basket for weeks. We introduced her to the garden though and it was such a joy to watch. We were told she was 'about three' but she reverted to kittenhood (in a good way) smile

She likes to watch birds, but hadn't caught any thankfully.

JenaiMorris Wed 13-Feb-13 18:00:21

God that sounds like a 9yo's 'My Pet' homework blush

RandallPinkFloyd Wed 13-Feb-13 18:41:53

Well I enjoyed it Jenai grin

poachedeggs Wed 13-Feb-13 18:45:44

Yeah sure Amber, you don't need a vet to give their opinion, you're quite clearly an expert what with your case study of, uh, five cats.

I totally do this for the money. Which is a salary and independent of how many cats I manage to cruelly deny a shag each week hmm

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 13-Feb-13 18:52:30

Pah! vets! What do they know about animals?

StartRight Wed 13-Feb-13 18:54:16

Well I have told the children - they are 9, 7 and 5 and they understand they don't want our cat to be put at risk.
This thread has certainly clarified my feelings so thanks for that.
I think we might get another cat from the shelter instead, so everyone will be happy.

Very funny ideas from some people about cat contraception. Made me smile!

OverlyYappy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:57:45

No no no!!

Many things can go wrong, what if mum cat needs a c-section do you have a spare £700, what if the kittens have a problem, conjunctivitis x 6 kitten = £100+ (been there), then there is the whole animals in shelters and a cat should be 1 year old or more before having a litter, she is still a baby, get her done, she could develop pyometris (SP - infection due to heat cycles) another £££££.

Best all round to have her done!

OverlyYappy Wed 13-Feb-13 18:58:25

Oh sorry decision made! blush

RandallPinkFloyd Wed 13-Feb-13 19:02:52

That's great to hear StartRight, it's very refreshing to see an OP start a thread and take an actual interest in the replies. Restores my faith in MN a little bit!

Good for you smile

JenaiMorris Wed 13-Feb-13 19:08:47

Poor oppressed cat sad

wink

Glad your family have seen sense, StratRight smile

kitsmummy Wed 13-Feb-13 19:15:27

Did you get loads of GSCEs Amber? It's just that you seem really smart.

StuntGirl Wed 13-Feb-13 19:53:46

Kit grin

OverlyYappy Wed 13-Feb-13 20:00:21

Amber I bred pedigree cats for a few years, you're talking shit!

Cat pill hmm

You can get a pill for cats to stop the heat cycles but it's not a the bloody cat pill and it is only used to prevent pyometries (SP again cannot be arsed to google) I doubt a vet would give you it for domestic cat I found it hard enough for mine and they were all registered and through the GCCF

countrykitten Thu 14-Feb-13 12:09:13

Amber is clearly a bit challenged on the old pet welfare thing - she knows nothing at all which is alarming since she seems to have a lot of cats. What a load of rubbish she has posted.

I have 4 at the moment. One who lives outside (his choice) and who is a savage hunter but who keeps down rats in the barns and three cats who stay indoors. One is a rescue mog so traumatised that she will only use two rooms of the house upstairs and the other two are pedigree rescues - a Siamese and a Ragdoll. Even well bred 'posh' cats find themselves unwanted and unloved. ALL of these cats are neutered and they get along rather well but we have enough room that they can be by themselves if they need to be.

People who breed animals without knowing what they are doing really depress me - they should perhaps go to a vets when they are gassing tiny unwanted kittens or putting down dogs thrown out by their owners for a new puppy. It's grim.

TwllBach Thu 14-Feb-13 12:33:39

I got my cat from Cat Action Plus - it is a nationwide charity but in reality in my little town there is a man on his own, who has turned his downstairs into a fostering site. His house stinks but he does a brilliant job - when we got out cat she came with enough food for a week, something about insurance and she was neutered as a matter of course. There was a mandatory donation of £30 to cover the cost of the operation, but I upped it to £80.

She'd been found in a bag as a tiny kitten and when I took her she was about four months old. She'd been living in a pen all that time and it took ages for her to trust putting her little footpaws on grass! It was the cutest thing I have ever seen.

Also, she is a fantastic hunter, thank you very much.

I would never buy a cat/dog. Rescue centres all the way.

Well done OP!

pointless post I know, I just wanted to put my two penn'orth in

apostropheuse Thu 14-Feb-13 22:04:37

Amber, I can assure you that having cats neutered/spayed does NOT stop them from hunting. Unfortunately grin

Both my girls hunt. One is much more successful than the other. She's affectionately known as The Serial Killer.

I can't wait for summer when they start going out more. grin

pooka Fri 15-Feb-13 07:38:34

My three cats (all neutered) are veritable psychopaths when it comes to hunting.

Granted, they're not especially good at it - but they give it a good go. Frogs, birds, massive wood pigeons. They've tried and sometimes failed but sometimes succeeded.

Rikalaily Mon 18-Feb-13 13:40:43

Wish my three neutered cats would stop hunting, I've had mice (inc a half eaten one) on my path and kitchen floor. A large bird finished off on my kitchen windowsill (inc blood spatter up the window). But the worst was when my neighbours rabbit had babies, they were a few months old and having a lovely time in her garden nibbling the grass... My oldest cat who was 8 at the time (neutered at 16 weeks) carried one into my kitchen and killed it big cat style by crushing it's windpipe on the floor next to the fridge while I was cooking dinner.

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