To judge people who use could of/should of/would of?

(185 Posts)
sneezingwakesthebaby Sat 09-Feb-13 18:59:21

Am I being unreasonable?

I suppose I am a bit because someone could have any form of difficulty which affects their grammar.

But generally, I still form an opinion about someone and what type of person they are just based on their use of "of" instead of "have". I don't decide to do this. It just automatically happens when I read it.

Hmmm.

mummybare Sat 09-Feb-13 19:00:38

YABU but I do it too, ALL THE TIME.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHopeful Sat 09-Feb-13 19:01:18

YABU

It's could a / would a / should a

FlouncingMintyy Sat 09-Feb-13 19:03:36

Yabu. Its just about the most horribly judgemental thing I can think of - to judge someone who hasn't had a great education.

Yik!

vamosbebe Sat 09-Feb-13 19:07:51

YABU to judge people by it, YANBU to compare it to nails grating down a blackboard like I do
They sound so similar when spoken that lots of people write it that way, too. I'm not a fan of it but then I am an English teacher and a bit of a pain in the ass stickler for grammatical perfection. I wouldn't, however, judge someone by it or point it out.

Rattitude Sat 09-Feb-13 19:08:25

Does one really need to have had a great education to know that it should be 'should have', etc.?

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 19:09:54

I judge people who start sneering threads like this one.

TheOneAndOnlyAlpha Sat 09-Feb-13 19:09:57

I say it and I have 3 degrees. Languages evolve. Whatever. biscuit

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 19:11:32

I wouldn't even notice if someone said could of.

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 09-Feb-13 19:13:55

YANBU

Purple2012 Sat 09-Feb-13 19:14:18

I notice it all the time. If its being said then it is just the way it sounds but i hate seeing it written in professional settings. I am an avid reader and the amount of books that have this astound me. It should be right in a book. On forums etc i dont particulary notice as i speed read a lot.

Salbertina Sat 09-Feb-13 19:17:21

Definitely NBU. And it makes no sense when written down- English is not a particularly phonetic language so no excuse that we pronounce a certain way..

ilovesooty Sat 09-Feb-13 19:17:51

I don't think the OP was sneering. She simply said that the use of "could of" etc does have that effect on her and she invited feedback on whether others thought that reasonable.

It absolutely grates on me and I do wonder about how someone thinks it's correct, but I would generally not mention it in the interests of not sidetracking the thread or being thought of as unnecessarily rude.

MsVestibule Sat 09-Feb-13 19:18:37

I notice it, as I do most obvious grammatical/spelling mistakes, but it doesn't bother me on an internet forum. As long as posts are legible and not in text speak, I don't care.

If I was reviewing CVs/application letters, then yes, unless the candidate was particularly good, their application would go in the bin.

FlouncingMintyy Sat 09-Feb-13 19:20:14

Not great is not the opposite of great or is that too subtle for you Rattitude.

Judge people for being mean, unkind, spiteful, criminal, unwashed, thoughtless, petty, sneering, pedantic, lazy, workshy, crude, vain if you must. But don't judge them for not knowing exactly the right spellings or grammar all the time!

Theala Sat 09-Feb-13 19:20:37

this is why pronouncing h is a good idea. it mostly avoids this problem. smile

FlouncingMintyy Sat 09-Feb-13 19:20:53

How can the op not be sneering if she says she "judges" people?

ilovesooty Sat 09-Feb-13 19:21:08

If I was reviewing CVs/application letters, then yes, unless the candidate was particularly good, their application would go in the bin

I agree with that.

What I do find irritating is people claiming that they're "writing casually"/"not at work now" etc. Surely if you know how to write correctly you do it automatically?

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:23:20

I think grammar is not a huge indicator of someones intellectual prowess. Younger people cab have poorer grammar as its not even taught that well in schools any more.

I worked for a grammar mad boss doing lengthy reports a few years back and she could pick holes in each one.

Plus your just chatting on a forum, I don't take great care on here to be honest.

So I think YABU.

OurPlanetNeptune Sat 09-Feb-13 19:23:42

I am not English, not brought up in England and I feel I am still learning learning the language. It is sometimes confusing for me when I read this. I do assume the person who has written it is not very educated. Very wrong of me, as the poster with three degrees demonstrates. I have rejected job applicants based on their very bad grammar.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:24:54

And I phones and bloody auto correct.

Mmm. I think probably everyone has something they wince at while knowing it's not entirely logical or fair. So as far as that goes, YANBU.

But it is a daft one to get worked up about. It's not a mistake I make myself, but for some people it is the phonetic spelling. I would imagine in 50 or 100 years it may well become acceptable. On the face of it, it isn't any more or less logical than 'have', after all. It just happens to be grammatically incorrect.

ilove - no, you don't necessarily do it automatically. I can tell this, because 'one' is better stylistically than 'you' in that sentence, but neither you nor I went for it, because we chose instead to be colloquial.

floweryblue Sat 09-Feb-13 19:26:37

In speech 'could of' sounds similar to 'could've' so doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think of email/forums as being like normal speech, so water off a ducks back.

When I am reading a novel I have paid money to buy, I find the few bits of grammar I know being abused really annoying.

Oh, and it's: 'if you know how to write correctly [*comma*] you [*would*] do it automatically?'

babybarrister Sat 09-Feb-13 19:27:15

Yanbu at all - may not be their fault as they may never have been taught English grammar but you are not wrong to judge if you are then prepares to help them

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:27:18

I was about to say that flowery.

Would've and would of for eg sound similar.

countrykitten Sat 09-Feb-13 19:27:27

YANB Same applies to your and you're and other such gems.

(Since it's a question not a statement).

confused

No idea what happened to the formatting there.

fluffiphlox Sat 09-Feb-13 19:28:19

I can't bear it. It's the sign of someone who doesn't read or reads without noticing. And don't get me started on it's and its.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:30:33

I just type on my phone on here with my thumb. If I get the odd typo I'm not going to get worked up over it, it's a chat forum.

ilovesooty Sat 09-Feb-13 19:30:44

ilove - no, you don't necessarily do it automatically. I can tell this, because 'one' is better stylistically than 'you' in that sentence, but neither you nor I went for it, because we chose instead to be colloquial

Yes, LRD, but that's register/stylistic preference, not grammatical inaccuracy. I can't see why someone would write "could of" in a casual context when they wouldn't use it in a formal situation.

countrykitten Sat 09-Feb-13 19:30:47

I will add that I am a teacher to stop people from labelling me as sneering because I insist on a certain standard.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 19:32:01

YABU to judge, but YANBU to find it deeply irritating. It makes me itch.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:33:16

Your not in school now and we aren't your pupils.

Plus being a teacher is no guarantee of having good grammar.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 19:34:31

pickeld how can 'should of' instead of 'should have' be a typo?

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 19:35:48

pickled

It's you're not in school now grin, that one's undertsandable though!

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:35:49

Did I say that? I don't think I did. You will see spelling mistakes in my posts on here though.

SandCastlesGoSquash Sat 09-Feb-13 19:36:01

YABU, I didn't even know it was could have until about 16 when my grandad corrected me! The accent in my area makes "have" and "of" sound very similar, so I had grown up thinking could of was the correct way. and it's not a poor/uneducated area either, before you judge me too

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:36:19

My iPhone is in charge!

Rattitude Sat 09-Feb-13 19:37:15

Flouncing, it is obviously too subtle for me...

Actually, when I make mistakes, I want to be told that I have made a mistake because I do not want to make the same mistake over and over again and be judged for making it. Yes, it does grate a bit when you are told you have made a mistake but I much prefer it rather than have people sneering.

Personally, I do find it patronising when people who are educated do not share their knowledge to improve other people's.

Fair enough, plenty of people do not want to educate themselves further but I think it is kinder to point out mistakes (in a nice manner) to people as they may appreciate being put right.

I have never done it on this forum but in real life, yes, I do it on a regular basis. I still have plenty of friends... smile

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:39:02

I think unless its the right context or the person has started it pointing out someone's spelling/grammar mistakes on here makes you look like a huge penis I have to say.

BumpingFuglies Sat 09-Feb-13 19:39:47

You could of waited till later to post this OP. In fact you should of. I would of got home sooner if I'd of known grin

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 19:40:01

I don't insist on a certain standard on an internet four

ilove - might as well say, I can't understand why someone would employ poor style, though.

It is a matter of taste, since none of us is being marked for it. Just recently I wrote 'to' instead of 'too' and I can also write 'two' for either of those. It's not because I don't know the difference. I understand that some people are like you, and once they've learned, they never make a mistake again, but I don't think that is universal or even very common.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 19:40:15

Forum

expatinscotland Sat 09-Feb-13 19:41:29

YANBU

ilovesooty Sat 09-Feb-13 19:43:49

"to" instead of "too" could be a typo or very easy to do when you're tired, not concentrating, distracted or in a hurry. I still don't think you'd write "could of" by mistake if you knew it was incorrect.

KellyElly Sat 09-Feb-13 19:44:14

Yes you are being unreasonable to judge what kind of person they are. That makes you a snob of the highest order.

ilovesooty Sat 09-Feb-13 19:44:55

And, of courese, I should have started that sentence with a capital. grin

ilovesooty Sat 09-Feb-13 19:45:17

<course> grr.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:45:55

Sooty you make it sound like a heinous crime!

SHE PUT COULD OF.... ON PURPOSE!

Argh!

maddening Sat 09-Feb-13 19:46:10

Tis a silly thing to get judgemental about - think what you like of course as long as the individuals you judge aren't aware of your thoughts then no one is hurt.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 19:46:25

Sorry pickled I just assumed that when you said 'I just type on my phone on here with my thumb. If I get the odd typo I'm not going to get worked up over it, it's a chat forum.' it was in relation to the OP! IME that's how it works, someone posts an OP and then the comments are usually in relation to that. My mistake though if it was a random, unconnected comment.

Why wouldn't you write 'of' instead of 'have'? confused

As I say, I wouldn't as in my accent they don't sound the same, but for lots of people they are homophones, so easily confused.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 19:48:22

I feel like writing could of on purpose all over mn when ever this thread crops up.Which is fairly often.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:48:41

Alright outraged don't be outraged.

ilovesooty Sat 09-Feb-13 19:48:51

I'm not talking about "heinous crimes". I'm considering the different processes that go on when people write/type. I wasn't judging how that process takes place or the people in question. You would type "could of" and make a conscious decision to do so if you were unaware that it is incorrect.

hermioneweasley Sat 09-Feb-13 19:48:54

It grates on me too. When accompanied by a long rambling post with "yeah but no but yeah" I picture vicky pollard.....and judge.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 19:49:12

because they're completely different!

They sound similar spoken, but they don't look similar written down, the letters are not close together on the keyboard. I don't think it can be a typo.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 19:50:14

pickled I was apologising. You can't be outraged and apologetic at the same time grin

But some typos are homophone confusions, aren't they? Like 'two' and 'too' - those letters aren't close together either.

I think it would depend whether you are strong aural, or strongly visual, in the way you learn spellings.

Flisspaps Sat 09-Feb-13 19:50:45

YANBU. DH did it the other day hmm

ShellyBoobs Sat 09-Feb-13 19:51:40

Your not been unreasonable.

wink

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:52:30

Well it's not something I do. But I can see how it happens, I don't take massive care what I type on here and if someone genuinely gets a bit confused as speaking you would say could've which can sound very much like could of, I'm not going to judge them.

That was a long old sentence.

I judge people who judge people because of their grammar and spelling, and I sneer at their sneering.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:53:48

Oh yes!

Sorry it's all this talk of grammar it makes me twitchy.

aftermay Sat 09-Feb-13 19:55:01

Should ov, could ov...

Bought and brought used wrongly...

I've only noticed this these past couple of years. What's happening? Standards, eh?

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 19:55:41

I only know about this ghastly grammar mistakes because of Mumsnet.
Now I know how dreadful I am because I make so many faux pas .

Despite managing to be articulate, literate and a very good communicator I am apparently beyond the pale grammar-wise.

Oh well.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 19:55:55

I was taught hardly any grammar at school. I had to learn on the mean streetz.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 19:56:01

I would say could ov.

kerala Sat 09-Feb-13 19:56:18

Our headteacher got the lesser/fewer thing wrong in his newsletter. I was shock but even worse I was the only one that was shock.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 19:56:38

'I think it would depend whether you are strong aural, or strongly visual, in the way you learn spellings. '

That could be true.

When I see posters use 'should of' though, they use it consistently throughout the post/s so it's not a case of being a typo in the majority of cases I've seen.

If you always use two instead of too, I don't consider that a typo.

aftermay Sat 09-Feb-13 19:56:49

Having said the above, even my own children have started doing this. Aargh! I should of known it'd happen.

BumpingFuglies Sat 09-Feb-13 19:59:36

You can't be outraged and apologetic at the same time
Nah but you can be enraged and apopleptic - I do love that word

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 19:59:49

I only notice it on MN because I imagine all the itching.twitching grating and judging going on.

DolomitesDonkey Sat 09-Feb-13 20:01:31

"Could of" does not sound the same as "could've" unless you've shocking diction.

It has nothing to do with a fabby education - but everything to do with being able to read and retain information.

Anyone claiming to have 3 degrees but no grammar has been let down by academic institutions rewarding mediocrity.

If someone consistently uses 'should of', presumably they don't know it's incorrect. Which begs the interesting question, at what point does something become 'incorrect' grammar?

I think one can become too bothered about these things.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 20:03:10

I disagree totally. Depending on where you live they can sound very similar.

I'd rather have three degrees and poor grammar to be honest.

dolo - oh, dear, I cross posted.

I am sad now. sad

I've been let down by academic institutions rewarding mediocrity. sad sad

I knew I shoulda (note: is this a compromise that pleases no-one?) gone to Hull.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 20:05:21

I prefer shoulda to should of.

DumSpiroSpero Sat 09-Feb-13 20:05:50

I don't know about judge exactly, but I always notice it, and it really grates on me.

I've also noticed a lot of 'bare with me's' lately...confused

I quite like shoulda myself. But in my mother's accent it is a homophone for shoulder.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 20:06:19

Shuddy? Shooder? Shudder?

somewherewest Sat 09-Feb-13 20:08:32

'Could've' and 'could of' sound exactly the same in my (Irish) accent. Shrug

PrincessFiorimonde Sat 09-Feb-13 20:13:42

I think it's odd to say that you 'judge' people for doing this.

In spoken English, you would hardly notice this usage, as (for example) 'could of' sounds so similar to 'could've'.

In written English, of course, it's clearly ungrammatical. So someone who wrote this might lose points in an exam, or might lose attention from a possible employer if they wrote this on a CV.

But if you're just saying that you 'judge' people for writing 'could of' on an internet forum (which is the way your post comes across), then I think you're confusing style with substance.

sneezingwakesthebaby Sat 09-Feb-13 20:16:02

I don't judge all grammar if that helps at all. Just the really simple stuff that was covered in primary school. I don't sneer either. It's just like my brain makes assumptions about people based on it.

GetWhatYouNeed Sat 09-Feb-13 20:29:52

I judge people who don't use grammar correctly and I judge people who can't spell. The use of 'could of', the incorrect use of 'its' and it's', 'your 'and 'you're' 'their' and 'there', putting apostrophes in plurals etc drives me mad. I'm 49 and never formally learned grammar as I grew up in the 'creative writing' era of the 1970's. My DC (19 & 22) went to a normal comprehensive school and bad spelling and grammar annoy them too. I think it's a sign not of a good education but of a person who doesn't read books and I judge people about that too. (Prepares to burn).

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 20:31:18

I have shocking diction.
Because I have an accent. I am a North Londoner who has been living in East London for 11 years.

My diction would make yer air curl.

The older I get the less I care because I am wise.

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 20:33:42

I am currently working with several people who are functionally illiterate.

One in particular springs to mind. They are incredibly articulate and insightful. They left school at 11 and have a very strong regional accent.

I am too busy listening to the interesting things they have to say to worry about their diction and grammar.

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 20:35:38

yaba it is just the way people talk/type like is far to short to judge people on grammar WAY TOO SHORT just dont do it

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 20:35:53

yabu*

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 20:36:47

Not the bloody book thing.

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 20:37:07

life* however feel free to judge away at my typos grin

QuickLookBusy Sat 09-Feb-13 20:38:45

I judge those who judge other people's grammar.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 09-Feb-13 20:40:01

I think the problem with using 'should of' on mumsnet is that what they've got to say very often isn't interesting...

AIBU to think my DH should of put the bins out/told MIL not to visit/put the toilet seat down and so on.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 20:40:56

It is generally far better to judge people on what they say not how they say it.

Judging on regional accents/ poor grammar it's very narrow minded, I think.

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 20:41:23

is their an entrance Exam for mumsnet then ? many well thought out spelt properly threads on mumsnet are boring it is the nature of forums

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 20:41:44

I find people who write how they like on MN much more interesting than the pompous grammar pedants.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 20:41:53

Look at that x post!

I don't know what 'diction' is, these days. I thought it was an obsolete term for being rude about what we now call regional accents. wink

outraged - AIBU to wonder if it would of been nobler to be, or not to be?

Happy?

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 20:42:20

I live in a country where we say how instead of why If i typed how I speak on here it would blow your mind grin

grin

I'd like that.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 20:47:27

Welsh valleys here I can't even begin to type how I talk, be here all day ( innit butt)

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 20:49:37

I'd love it if everyone typed how they spoke.

My grandpa had a lovely Welsh accent - it only came strongly out when he sang. It's a beautiful accent to have. Mine is boring RP, but I grew up in the Midlands so bits of that thrown in.

I know someone who works on accents and if she hears you speak, she can say exactly where you've lived, even if you think you don't have a telling accent at all. It is amazing.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 20:51:22

English people make me say Ian Beale then roll around laughing.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 20:54:13

I love accents and regional words and phrases.

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 20:54:17

The book thing.

I judge people who say things like 'it always makes me a little sad when I go into a house with no books sad'

I judge and I larf.

echt Sat 09-Feb-13 20:56:43

I correct DD every time she says "should of/would of", so yes, I suppose I do judge.

Mind, you, I grit my teeth when I hear "there's" when it should be "there are", as in "There's rivets and there's Levi's rivets". It's one the most common grammatically incorrect expression around; widespread in the media, you hear on tv news.

Rant over.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 20:56:44

It makes me laff,the book thing on MN

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 20:59:26

yes the book thing is really really patronising imo, it is so sad a house with no books <snigger> ok then

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 20:59:58

oh but i will poke you in the eye if you say draw instead of DRAWER

I dunno, I do think it's a shame if someone doesn't have books, I like books. I also feel sad when someone doesn't have TV or radio, though. It's good to have things to distract you, surely?

What am I missing about the house with no books thing? confused

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 21:00:51

it is the aww <head tilt> attitude though LRD

Oh, I think I get you.

I reckon the same when people go on about someone who only knows 'classic' books from watching the films. Erm ... yes ... sometimes the films are quite good too, you know. It's almost like it's a whole nother art form people put work and talent into ...

TheFallenNinja Sat 09-Feb-13 21:06:33

YANBU. They are the last words of a fool.

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 21:07:32

Its like that thing people do when you mention kindles...within about erm 10 seconds...'but I LOVE books, the feel of them in my hands, the weight of them, the turning of the pages. A book is more than just a thing, I just think I would miss that if I had a kindle' <head tilt>

Yeah, ok....

grin

Sorry, I am one of those people.

I am shite at technology and I like books I can hold in my hands. What is wrong with that?

I don't think a book is more than a 'thing', though.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 21:10:36

I had a kindle for Christmas and I love it. Best thing is that you can read in bed without the lights on, thus saving trees and the environment.

And without waking up babies.

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 21:10:40

A book is more than just a thing, I just think I would miss that if I had a kindle' <head tilt>

Yeah, ok....

tbh you cant turn the pages down on a kindle can you grin i would break it I chuck books on the floor in my bag stand on them, that is why i dont have a kindle I disrespect books blush

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 21:11:46

You give it a poke with your thumb it's quite satisfying!

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 21:11:49

Books = bloody dust.
And they take up space.

CBA with books. Kindles are da bomb.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 21:12:45

I had a kindle fire for Christmas,I mainly use it to MN and FB.

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 21:13:12

And I got net flix and mn on it.

If it could make me a cup of tea I'd marry it!

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 21:14:03

I start reading a book on mine,then keep checking MN.

TackyChristmastreedelivery Sat 09-Feb-13 21:15:09

I think yabu to judge any one person on their grammar. Assuming the judgement is a negative assumption about a person you don't actually know.

I'd say the same to someone who judged a person on their origin, weight, accent, clothing, where they live etc. etc. In my view, it just isn't ok to assume 'things' about people. None of these features are essential parts of being a good and kind person, imo. It is, for example, perfectly possible to be a useful member of society whilst having awful grammar, a much ridiculed accent, be obese and the child of an immigrant. I know because I am grin

I'd also be very upset if my dd decided someone at school was worthy of being judged because they spoke in a certain way. I would actively discourage it.

That said, making observations about standards of literacy seems perfectly reasonable and much more useful. However, as the average reading age in the UK is 9, I think this one area of grammar is the least of the problem society faces!

I dunno. I don't like the way the screen looks. And I spend enough time hunched over a screen, my posture shifts a bit when I read a book and that's a good thing. DH really wants one though.

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 21:16:42

do you get the internet on kindles ?

I do genuinely think it's interesting how you can tell how far though a book you are by how it feels in your hands. I'm not making grand claims for that, but it is interesting. Mind you, I expect back in the day I was the cavewoman who was muttering about how nice it was back when we all hunter-gathered, and this new-fangled farming was crappy and boring.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 21:17:37

You do on kindle fires,I'm on mine now.

mrsjay Sat 09-Feb-13 21:18:11

You do on kindle fires,I'm on mine now

feck the books I am getting a kindle grin

PickledInAPearTree Sat 09-Feb-13 21:18:19

Kindle fire mrs jay - books, Internet you can stream films, bloody loves it!

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 21:18:41

Which is why my typing is even worse than usual.

Films I would like. I love having films on my laptop.

BluelightsAndSirens Sat 09-Feb-13 21:21:59

I don't understand it when people blame iPad/iPhone auto correct because it doesn't auto correct you're to your if you type y o u r e same applies to their and there and they're.

If you type whether it doesn't auto correct to weather and the same with of off.

MarianneM Sat 09-Feb-13 21:25:26

YANBU

And a house without books is a sad one.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 21:25:47

I get to and too mixed up all the time

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 21:27:18

A house with loads of books isn't necessary a happy one either.

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 21:27:58

But LRD the kindle will tell you the % of a way you are through a book!
<lures>

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 21:28:25

Ha ha ha ha ha.

priceless.

MrsDeVere Sat 09-Feb-13 21:28:51

A house made out of books is a floppy one.

There's muscle memory too, isn't there? The other day I kept typing god instead of dog.

usualsuspect Sat 09-Feb-13 21:29:52

Necessarily see that was a bloody auto correct

mrsdevere - yeah, yeah, but it's not the same! <mutters>

I am still angry my new car does not have a nice circular dial to tell me how much petrol and instead has a set of nine bars. I am obviously shite at translating between one mode of presenting information and another.

Veritate Sat 09-Feb-13 23:57:10

YANBU. It's hateful. It's not a matter of homophones, nor can it be attributed to a poor education - no teacher tells pupils to write "could of". Surely it's not hard to work out that the word can't possibly be "of"? You don't ever seen that construction in any reasonably literate writing. You'd never write "he of done that" so why write "he could of done that"? It's just bad manners not to try to write in a way that is reasonably easy to understand and read.

PessaryPam Sun 10-Feb-13 00:58:02

TheOneAndOnlyAlpha I say it and I have 3 degrees.

Ha ha and none of them in English I would suggest.

Veritate Sun 10-Feb-13 03:09:51
Tee2072 Sun 10-Feb-13 05:54:47

Having a kindle doesn't mean you can never buy another book again, you realise that, right?

And I keep threatening to leave my husband for my Fire. grin

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 05:58:19

Yes and no. It depends. If they've heard it around them all their lives and do it without thinking logically about the fact that it makes no sens then yes. If they've had it gently pointed out to them them that they are talking nonsensical drivel, and they still continue to do it without making any effort to self-correct, then no.

YANBU especially when those guilty refuse to stop it as in the whiny 'lift in the rain' thread.

Altinkum Sun 10-Feb-13 06:17:20

Some people have a great education, 1st in social work, however due to a learning disability cannot grasp some aspects of the written language.

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 06:30:00

This is nothing to do with grasping aspects of written language though. Once it is pointed out to you that you have been mis-hearing 'I should have', or (as is more likely) the contraction 'I should've' and that we do not say' I of' therefore we do not say 'I should of' it makes perfect, easy sense.

So why do some people continue to do it, and insist that it doesn't really matter unless you are a 'grammar snob'? confused

If you spent your life calling seeing a rabbit and saying 'otter!' until someone pointed out to you that it was a rabbit, would you carry on calling it an otter and think they were just an up-themselves snob trying to make you look stupid, or would you think 'Oh! Silly me! All my life I thought that was an otter! Now I can see the difference I'll start calling it a rabbit.' confused

Tee2072 Sun 10-Feb-13 07:17:10

Except, Fellatio, I do think it gets people's backs up when you correct things like that so they might continue to do it because they know it annoys.

Or because they just don't care!

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 07:21:23

I don't correct anyone except my own children. but on the odd occasion I have ben corrected myself I have been very grateful and have made a mental note to get it right in future. I don't get arsey about it. But then people have not been arsey when telling me.

Tee2072 Sun 10-Feb-13 07:22:43

That could be a factor, too. And it's hard to tell, online, if someone is being arsey or not.

Boomerwang Sun 10-Feb-13 07:23:44

It's enough that someone gets a half decent education at all, manages to write letters, fill in forms and live quite comfortably with what they managed to stuff in their brains in the short time that they were at school. Little things like 'could of' mean next to nothing in the great scheme of things.

For what it's worth, I consider my spelling and grammar to be above par, yet I have no talent for anything at all. I'd rather be good at something else, believe me.

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 07:26:22

I think there is actually something a bit wrong with someone who would persist in doing something like that just to annoy someone else, knowing it's wrong, and to the detriment of how they themselves will be perceived by others. But I am someone who likes to get things right. It's really important to me to not look stupid or sloppy. (although in reality I am frequently both.) Obviously it's much less important to lots of other people. But then there are lots of things that other people do that I don't understand. grin

Boomerwang Sun 10-Feb-13 07:29:54

Those saying a CV would go in the bin if spelling was poor: I'm glad this didn't happen to my father, who spent 21 years in the army, became a vehicle specialist, had a CV that was so long he had to truncate it so that it might actually be read and has a poorer grasp on spelling and grammar than some. (I'm aware that sentence is too long but I don't care)

You could miss out on a great worker because you sneered at their spelling mistakes. There are doctors out there who can't spell for shit, do you think anyone gives a damn as long as they do their job well?

Tee2072 Sun 10-Feb-13 07:34:26

Boomer if you know you can't spell for shit? Get someone to write it for you or at least check it over. Why wouldn't you? A CV is your first impression.

I absolutely will bin a CV if it has poor spelling or grammar. No matter the position.

I'm glad it didn't happen to your father also, but he's very very lucky it didn't. And probably would have in today's economy especially where there's 1000 CVs for every position and you need a quick way to start eliminating.

Salbertina Sun 10-Feb-13 07:38:54

But grammar acts as a filter in this case, doesn't it? If 100 CVs received for 1 post, useful means of impression-screening.
Doctors are not recruited by CV and being in such demand and having made it thro rigorous training/assessment already are far more likely to be forgiven any bad grammatical errors.

Salbertina Sun 10-Feb-13 07:43:41

To be honest, if a doctor wrote "would of/should of" in any communication to me, I would be a little hmm but would then think they obviously have a brain and a medical education so respect despite their poor grammar.

Altinkum Sun 10-Feb-13 07:50:17

Well you know little about learning disabilities fell
Lauguage is processing skills, with having dyslexia, and having extreay difficultly in processing symbols, its not as simple as someone telling you, how to do it, its about your brain processing the symbols (ie words) so they stick, which isn't very easy when your brain won't grasp it.

Boomerwang Sun 10-Feb-13 07:52:46

I'm not saying it doesn't grate. As a kid I'd get a bit pissy if I noticed the headteacher wrote something containing a mistake. In my head it was just as important that he or she could write properly as well as run a school.

I also see spelling mistakes in some supermarket POS posters and labels. I completely understand that it makes you do a double take, I am exactly the same. If a friend of mine showed that she couldn't spell particularly well I wouldn't mark her down for it.

I apologise for using my father as an example because I now remember that my mother - who is absolutely fantastic with spelling, grammar and construction - went over my father's CV several times.

I still believe there are people out there who aren't given a good enough chance or are passed over for promotion because their poor spelling irks the persons giving out those opportunities.

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 07:53:09

With the binning the CV thing, for me it would really depend on what position the application was for. If it was a manual skill I was looking for, and a job that required little or no written element then it would not bother me. If it was a front of house thing where first impressions to the client were everything, then clarity and accuracy of speech/grammar would be very important, even if that person's spelling was poor.

But if you know you're written English is dicey it costs nothing to ask a trusted, fully literate friend to check it over for you. Or go to the library and borrow a dictionary. To not have bothered at all is a sign of sloppiness and a lack of attention to detail.

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 07:54:05

hahah! spot the deilberate mistake! I altered the sentence but forgot to change the 'you're'

Boomerwang Sun 10-Feb-13 07:56:30

There are no books in this house, save for first aid and baby care books, but I recognise the importance of reading for improving your spelling and grammar. When I was a kid I read anything from 3-8 books a week, always maxed out my limit in the local library. I would always encourage reading absolutely anything that piques your fancy because they provide invaluable lessons for free (from the library or illegal downloads) or for the price of the book.

I've got the old fashioned Kindle with no backlight and I love it. I stuff it with books and take this tiny slim thing around with me. It's so much more convenient!

JakeBullet Sun 10-Feb-13 08:02:32

It's always important to account for accent and speed of speech as well. If I am in a rush my "could have" can easily be misconstrued for "could of" blush. It won't be what I said but might well sound like it.

My son who is autistic with ADHD is also a rapid speaker and sounds like he says " could of" when I know perfectly well he has said "could have" because generally his grammar is very good. He does mix up words though still and says things like "I want something betterer" or suchlike. This is despite me having read obsessively to him since his earliest days....but I guess ASD is to blame for all that.

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 08:03:31

to be honest I don't think anyone can read anything doctor writes anyway. grin

Doctors are not necessarily strong at English. They are almost always strong at maths though. They are left brain people, on the whole. The thing about doctors is that they are almost always from middle or upper middle class backgrounds, where good grammar and diction tends to be a default setting, drummed into them from an early age. Plus they have usually benefitted from attending a private school or a grammar school, so even if they are not naturally good spellers their standard of written English is usually be grammatically competent.

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 08:04:44

sorry for the gobbledygook typos.

Boomerwang Sun 10-Feb-13 08:05:21

Yes I wish their writing was legible, as I have very important medical notes from England to give to my Swedish doctor and I know that I'm going to have to try to translate some of the medical terms.

renaldo Sun 10-Feb-13 09:21:29

Your Swedish doctor will have impeccable English I bet
And certainly will not say 'could of '
And OP YANBU

Veritate Sun 10-Feb-13 10:23:36

You can't attribute this sort of mistake to dyslexia - dyslexic brains just don't work that way.

Yes, they do, veritate.

fell, I don't think it is like the 'otter' example. I get what you're saying and I expect it's like that for some people. Like the way some people think 'alzheimers' is 'old-timer's' disease and once you tell them, they know.

But I think for some people, they just hear the two words sounding alike and end up writing the wrong one by mistake before their brain catches up. Ideally, you'd teach someone to proof-read properly and they would catch those mistakes, but everyone makes small errors sometimes, whether because their muscle memory catches them out, or because they type the wrong thing because they're thinking about the sound not the spelling.

crashdoll Sun 10-Feb-13 10:52:51

YABVU to judge but YANBU to feel irritated.

FellatioNels0n Sun 10-Feb-13 11:29:43

Yes LRD I think that is exactly what they are doing. But it is an innocent mistake nonetheless (much like the otter/rabbit thing) and I would hope that most people, once they'd had it pointed out to them would go 'Doh!' and make a concerted effort to stop doing it. So the principle is the same.

They've just mis-heard it many, many times, and so have the people around them, and they are all saying 'should of' too, which just compounds the problem - very few of us stop and analyse our everyday language - we just assume it makes sense. I understand completely how it happens. But many people seem to cling to the slightly bizarre idea that it's some kind of dialogue thing, and 'it's correct where I live because everyone I know does it and they understand me, so why should I stop?' Or getting all uppity and defensive when they are corrected.

I find that strange. I would feel like a plank if I thought I'd been doing that my whole life and no-one told me. I'd be grateful, not offended.

Theicingontop Sun 10-Feb-13 11:31:31

Life is way too short.

usualsuspect Sun 10-Feb-13 11:33:04

Innit, Theicingontop.

Oh, I see.

I think, for me, dialect is the spoken form. If in your accent 'could've' and 'could of' are homophones, eventually it will become standard grammar. I think that's obvious.

I'm not sure I would justify writing 'could of' as dialect, it seems slightly different to me.

I think the only reason I'd be offended would be if someone suggested I should feel 'like a plank' to get it wrong. It's not hard to tell someone something new but not make them feel small doing it.

Gah. 'dialect is to do with the spoken form'.

As you see, I can't type.

Porkster Sun 10-Feb-13 11:44:17

I judge. I know it's wrong, but I do.

'Would of' etc drives me nuts.

And while we're at it, it's drawER not draw. Z(another thread has been annoying me today.

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