to think DD is too old for pocket money?

(166 Posts)
NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 11:14:28

DD1 is now 18. She is at college doing A levels having wasted a year doing a college course which she had no interest in and which, although now qualified, will never use. All her friends either work full time or have part time jobs in McDs, or local shops, or pubs etc...but DD1 just won't work. She says that she has tried to get a job but can't...that there are none around. However I often see jobs advertised in town and come home and tell her but she never applies for them. The local co op advertises loads of jobs but she doesn't want to work locally...McDs is 'beneath her', she won't ask in the pub up the road because 'they deal drugs', she won't take a job in the industry for which she is qualified bcause she hates the work, in short she just won't get off her arse and work.

Now she has asked if I will give her 'pocket money'. When I said I couldn't afford it she got really irate, she needs money, it's not her fault she can't get a job, as she can't get a job it's mine to fund her life...I have just finished paying out hundreds for her driving lessons resulting in me not having any spare money at all for myself or treats for the other Dcs, I'm a single mum and live literally hand to mouth some weeks.

She wants the money so she can go out drinking (I can't afford to do this myself), and get tattoos...she already has 2.

I was working from the age of 14, and frankly I think she should be embarrassed to be asking for pocket money at her age.

But AIBU?

CloudsAndTrees Fri 08-Feb-13 11:16:24

No, YANBU. Just don't give her any money.

If you do, she will never get off her arse and get a job, so you would actually be doing her a massive disservice if you do give her money.

Eebahgum Fri 08-Feb-13 11:18:00

No, YANBU. Your daughter needs to grow up & start taking responsibility for herself. Buy her necessities, like clothes, but if she wants money for drinking or tattoos she should get off her backside & earn it herself. X

mumblechum1 Fri 08-Feb-13 11:18:53

I stopped giving DS once he started working PT. I do top him up from time to time but the basic, every day stuff he pays for himself.

Your dd has no incentive whatsoever to try and get a job! I think I'd say that when I see her post 10 job applications within a week, you'll give her £20. For every week she keeps trying you'll pay her but if her applications drop off the money stops.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 11:19:18

clouds that's what I think too. She will have no incentive to work if I fund her social life. My DS is 16 in a couple of weeks and chomping at the bit to work - he will do anything, labouring, bar work, fast food...he wants his independence and also to not have to ask me to pay for anything. I'm hoping that if he gets a job it will make her want to do the same when she sees him coming home with a pay packet. I get so mad when she says it's my job, my duty, to give her money!

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 11:19:36

God, no.

No money for her without her working for it. I had my first job at 15 and worked non-stop, throughout University (saturdays and holidays only though) until we emigrated to Australia when I was 42.

Be strong about this! You will be doing her no favours at all to give her handouts. And hide whatever money/valuables you do have so that she doesn't resort to stealing them.

Can't believe she's so workshy, honestly!

ohfunnyhoneyface Fri 08-Feb-13 11:20:35

Of course you are not unreasonable!

How did she become so entitled??

I can't believe you paid for her driving lessons!

At 18 she needs to be self sufficient, if anything, she should be contributing to the household costs.

Refuse to give her money. Be firm, if you aren't, you're only damage her further in the long run.

YouOldSlag Fri 08-Feb-13 11:20:49

You sound like you are doing a good job. Don't give her any money or you will take away her incentive. She needs to suffer a bit before the penny will drop and she will get off her arse and get a job.

At that age I was at uni but I still had weekend jobs and summer jobs and even a Saturday job. I never went to my parents once I was 18.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Fri 08-Feb-13 11:21:14

If she wants money so badly she'll at least look for a job and take almost anything that is offered to her, within reason. YANBU, if she wants money she needs to earn it.

Ashoething Fri 08-Feb-13 11:21:26

YANBU to expect your dd to try and knuckle down to something-be it education or work. But I think you do have to remember that she is only 18-thats still very young.

I was a bit like her at 18 tbh-I didnt get into the uni I wanted so took a year out,went on the dole and spent most of the time going out clubbing,partying with friends. My mum would give me cash and buy me clothes although she did eventually get fed up with it!

I was a very immature 18 year old looking back now and I also had self esteem issues and depression so it wasnt as simple as me being lazy/feckless.

I would explain to your dd that you cannot continue to fund her lifestyle but that you will always be their for her emotionally. Hopefully within the next couple of years she will mature a lot and get on with her life.

ReallyTired Fri 08-Feb-13 11:21:31

I don't give my eleven year old pocket money. He earns pocket money singing at weddings. Admitally this is very unusual. His cousins who are the same age earn their pocket money by doing extra chores or gardening.

I think you are right not to give her pocket money. She has to learn that money does not grow on trees.

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 11:21:41

ah xposted - I'm sorry, she's 18, yes? Age of responsibility and all that? No longer your "duty" to keep her fed, clothed, or even housed, let along support her social life because she's too bone idle and "entitled" to do it herself.

Of course most parents will still feed clothe and house their DC after the age of 18 if necessary - but not because they have to!

HollyBerryBush Fri 08-Feb-13 11:22:44

She's 18? tell her to sign on! they'll soon send her off on a course and find her a job she really wont like! that will galvinise her into shifting her butt

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 11:23:05

Mumblechum the problem is also that I just can't afford it, and if I give her money I have to give it to the other 2 also.

She told me yesterday that she wants to give her friend £40 towards a tattoo for her birthday, I asked where she was going to get the money form and she said from me giving her money!!! I'm buggered if I'm going to go without so she can pay for her mate to have a bloody tattoo!!! her mate works full time!

I buy her clothes when she needs them, I buy her toiletries, I buy her make up when she runs out...but to pee it up against a wall???

Eebahgum Fri 08-Feb-13 11:24:27

Think if my ds told me it was "my duty" to give him pocket money I'd be digging my heels in even harder. Tell her she's lucky you put food on the table & a roof over her head when she's old enough to stand on her own two feet. X

HecateWhoopass Fri 08-Feb-13 11:25:32

No. She should get a job to fund her social life.

She's in full time education. You are supporting her by feeding her, keeping a roof over her head, clothing her, etc.

To ask her to do some work to pay for her bloody booze is very little!

She can get a cleaning job for a few hours a week. There are many people who employ someone to clean their house.

HecateWhoopass Fri 08-Feb-13 11:27:03

And at the end of the day - if your answer is no, what can she do? Steal from you? If she does, then that's a call to the police!

She has to work. She can tantrum like a 5 year old if she wants, but when she's finished sulking, she'll still need to work.

It's a good lesson you'll be giving her.

MaccyDs may be "beneath her" but it has one of the best management training schemes in the UK.

It's obvious she is too old for pocket money and she needs to get out and do a job. Of course she wants you to fund her lifestyle, that doesn't mean you should. I can't believe she has the cheek to ask for money for drink and tattoos!

Has she no pride in herself?

I was working from 14/15 and my DD who has just turned 3 has been earning money by helping her dad sort out aluminium cans for recycling.

littlewhitebag Fri 08-Feb-13 11:29:53

If you can't afford it then you can't give her any money and she will have to earn it herself. I assume you keep her fed and a roof over her head. If she has no money i also assume you buy her toiletries, make up etc too? If so then she is getting all she needs. Extras have to be earned.

My DD who is 15 gets pocket money but from that she has to buy her own toiletries, make up, magazines etc. She also has to do chores to earn the pocket money.

Keep refusing her money and eventually she will get herself a job.

CartedOff Fri 08-Feb-13 11:30:37

You should stop buying her makeup and clothes tbh- I bet she'd get off her bum sharpish if she knew you weren't going to be funding luxuries like that and definitely weren't going to give her money.

She sounds incredibly entitled. Don't give in!

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 11:31:00

Gosh, this is moving fast!

She can't sign on as she is at college, although that is only 4 days a week, and 2 of those days are only 3 hours each. Her attendance was 52% up til last week! Now it's gone up to 56%. She will decide she is too tired to go into college, and when I tell her she has to go she tells me it is no longer my job to tell her to go as she is 18!!!

I made a big mistake paying for her driving lessons...I really shouldn't have as it nearly crippled me. That was £33 per week which is a hell of a lot of money for me. I di tell her that if she didn't pass first time that she was on her own with paying for the rest but she did pass, so it wasn't an issue but in hindsight it was the wrong thing to do.

I went into town with her in November so she could look for a xmas job. However, despite there being loads advertised she applied for one, and when I told her to go into a card shop to apply for the one in the window she literally stamped her feet, saying she didn't want to work in some boring crappy shop!

Bwa ha ha ha tell your dd to get off her arse! My pocket money was stopped when I got a paper round at 13. I got a job in a cafe at 15 and was working in a care home when I was 16 and worked there throughout sixth form. Tell her to grow up. It shouldn't even be a question. You can't afford it and you don't want to. No is a complete sentence. Every time she brings it up just say. I've said no to giving you money. Go get a job. And repeat.

I'd also stop buying her clothes and make up. They are luxuries and if she wants them she can get a job to buy them herself. My mum would never have bought me make up or clothes once I was 18. She's an adult technically

CloudsAndTrees Fri 08-Feb-13 11:34:40

Stop buying her clothes. She is fully grown now, it's not like she is growing out of clothes any more, so she doesn't need anything new. She can wear the things she wore in the same weather last year.

She doesn't need make up if she doesn't need to make herself look presentable for job interviews and work, so stop buying that as well.

She barely even needs her own toiletries, and the things that she does need can be bought from the pound shops. Don't let her choose what brand of deodorant/toothpaste/shampoo she gets, she will have to make do with what's cheap.

Choice is a luxury that has to be paid for.

YouOldSlag Fri 08-Feb-13 11:35:17

Your DD sounds very fussy about jobs! It's kind of traditional that your first job will be a bit rubbish, but it teaches you humility and hard work and there is no feeling like making your own money.

She'll take a job in a "crappy card shop" when she's gone without for long enough! Stand your ground and don't budge.

fromparistoberlin Fri 08-Feb-13 11:36:21

yanbu

she needs to GET A JOB

she will get it, eventually!

and cruel to be kind I agree

tass1960 Fri 08-Feb-13 11:36:45

If she's at college is she not entitled to a bursary/student loan ?

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 11:39:13

YY, stop buying her luxuries! My mum stopped buying my clothes, pretty much, when I was 15 and getting my own money from my Saturday job. She still bought me basics, like underwear - but everything else I bought myself (and wouldn't have let her buy for me anyway, not without my input at least!)

I'm actually quite surprised your DD has so little shame that she is prepared to almost literally steal food out of the mouths of you and your other 2 DC because she is too lazy to get a job! shock

CartedOff Fri 08-Feb-13 11:39:50

It really does sound like she needs to learn things the hard way. I can really appreciate why you drove her into town to find jobs and encourage her to go to college: it's so hard watching your own child doing badly because of the choices they make. It's shit. But I would back off and let her make her own mistakes, because right now it seems like the encouragement you give her just lends her more fuel to come up with excuses and take on the role of a child. Whenever you tell her to apply for jobs and she says there isn't any work she's just enforcing what she's convinced herself: that it's ever so hard and she won't do it. The help and support you've offered her isn't making any difference to her rotten attitude: 56% attendance for A-levels and applying for one job at Christmas. Let her stuff things up if she wants to, she'll find out sooner or later what the reality is if you don't put any work into life.

HecateWhoopass Fri 08-Feb-13 11:40:21

Stop buying make up. And only buy clothes as required to replace an item that has worn out!

She's taking the piss and will continue to do so for as long as she can get away with it.

She will get a job when she suffers more for not having one.

So no more make up. No fancy shampoo or conditioner or anything like that. Just basic requirements for good personal hygiene.

She needs to understand that no honest work is beneath anyone and she needs a dose of reality and / or your foot up her arse. Frankly.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 11:40:22

carted off I only buy her make up as far as foundation and powder goes...she has always been self conscious about her skin (teenage acne) and although that has cleared up now she still feels bad being without it. However, other make up, no. She also has far more clothes than I do, so it's rare that I buy her any.

littlewhitebag yes...she's fed, housed, kept warm etc, I buy her the essentials in make up and clothes (underwear etc).

The DCs only have one compulsory job around the house (apart from having to pick up after themselves obviously) and that is to wash up, dry up and put away...they alternate between the 2 older ones, and the youngest has to clear the table every night. Other that that, I will pay them to do jobs for me but it is always DS and DD2 who do the jobs. DS will hoover the stairs, do the bins, go to the shop etc, and DD2 will polish etc...they like earning money although more often than not DS will refuse the money anyway.
DD1, however, will not do anything, complains when asked to do something. She will wash up random cups etc during the day, and then says she does more than anyone else in the house.

I live in a rented house, and the other day we were due an inspection. I and the other 2 DC spent all day cleaning bedrooms, hoovering, dusting, and generalloy making the house look nice but DD1 sat in her pyjamas ALL day on the settee watching tv!

HecateWhoopass Fri 08-Feb-13 11:41:57

it's still a luxury and perhaps you telling her that you won't buy it any more may be the motivation she needs to get herself a job.

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 11:44:33

I'm going to be a bit harsh here:
"I and the other 2 DC spent all day cleaning bedrooms, hoovering, dusting, and generalloy making the house look nice but DD1 sat in her pyjamas ALL day on the settee watching tv!"

WTAF were you thinking, allowing her to do that?? I'd have had the plug off the tv to prevent her! I know she's 18 and so on but seriously? You need to take a bit of a stand here, I think.

cantspel Fri 08-Feb-13 11:44:55

She needs to start acting her age and not like a spoilt child.

Stop buying anything for her, no clothes, make up or toiletries and she will soon learn if she wants them they need paying for so she needs a job even if it is in a crappy shop.

No doubt you do her washing and cook her meals so i would stop doing those jobs as well. She is a young adult and so should be acting like one.

Remotecontrolduck Fri 08-Feb-13 11:45:13

I supported mine until they finished A Levels, after that they needed to get a job (though I would help out with uni costs etc). They were always grateful and never money grasping, and we do live in an area where jobs are scarce (no real shops except charity shops!)

Nothing wrong with offering support while in education, but your DD sounds like an entitled madame and needs to get a job. Don't buy her anything and tell her to get some damn respect!!!

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 11:46:10

Hecate I've done that and she refused to leave the house!!! This was when she was at school and she wouldn't go in unless she had make up on! However, she gets Natural Collection at 1.99.
I don't buy luxury brands anyway, as I can't afford them so it's whatever is on special offer at the time.
She is also a vegetarian so I have to buy her quorn everything and make separate versions of dinner for her. It's not that I mind doing that per se but it's the fact that, as so many have said, she is so 'entitled'.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 11:51:05

Thumbwitch be as harsh as you like, I think it's what I need! Had I unplugged the tv she would have just gone to her room and watched it there on her own tv.

I've told her that McDs are known to be excellent employers but she doesn't want to know. Similarly the card shop wasn't crappy, it was a normal town centre card shop. Even my bf gives her details of jobs, phone numbers etc but to no avail.

I am going to have to back off completely from trying to help her, and stick to my guns about money.

charlearose Fri 08-Feb-13 11:51:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Fri 08-Feb-13 11:53:40

my ds1 was at college and he only got money when he did jobs. we had a system of what was expected for him and ds2 like keeping rooms clean, washing up etc then paid chores like washing floors, washing cars, doing windows, sweeping outside, washing kitchen units etc when he wanted money he would turn into a hive of activity grin he's still at college and works as a window cleaner on the days he has no lessons.

charlearose Fri 08-Feb-13 11:54:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 11:54:26

I'd have the tv out of her room as well, tbh. Say if she wants money and isn't prepared to work for it then her stuff will need to be sold to fund her lifestyle, such as it is (sponger).

You know, I'd watch it - she might be one of those who keeps trying different educational routes because the previous one "didn't work out", so she avoids getting a job for as long as is humanly possible. Make sure you don't facilitate this!

YouOldSlag Fri 08-Feb-13 11:55:55

OP- why isn't she cooking her own meals? She is 18. No need to do that for her any more. She can eat other stuff that doesn't have Quorn in or the rest of you can eat Quorn too. It's expensive cooking separately and making her all the food she requests.

If she wants food- tell her it's in the in kitchen
If she wants money- tell her it has to be earned
If she wants make up- tell her she'll have to buy it.
If she wants to live at home like a non paying hotel guest- tell she will have to clean.

She's pushing you around. YOU be the boss. YOU have the power!

MammaTJ Fri 08-Feb-13 11:56:57

My DD is 18 in a few weeks and has not had pocket money since she was old enough to get a job. She has worked in the same shop since she was 13. First she was just filling shelves, then she got trained to use the till. Now she holds a set of keys and opens and closes and is often in sole charge of the shop. <proud mum emoticon>

She knows that if you want something in life, you have to work for it. A lesson your DD has yet to learn.

YANBU!!

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 11:58:19

She even has her phone paid for as her father pays for her contract, so she really has the life of Riley. I so admire any child/young adult who works while at school or college...I did it, right from 14. Paper rounds, supermarket checkout, shelf stacking night shift, bars, clubs, ironing, cleaning...

Remote there are so many jobs here, we live within a bus ride of several towns, one major and several smaller ones so she doesn't have that excuse.

havingastress Fri 08-Feb-13 11:58:24

YANBU. She's 18. Not 8.

Make her get off her ass and earn some cash! She'll become less fussy once she realises that's the only way to get the money she needs.

My mum stopped buying me things at 16. I did babysitting until I was 17, then it was glass collecting, then bar work, then shop work.

She sounds a little bit spoilt. Put your foot down!

HecateWhoopass Fri 08-Feb-13 11:58:54

ok. then she refuses to leave the house.

She loses her place at college and has no social life.

It depends how far you are willing to go to give her this VERY important lesson.

Screw up in the short term, serious shit for her to sort out right now, held back, suffering, has to restart but LEARNS and changes what needs to be changed.

Or

28 years old and mooching off you, getting pissed in clubs every weekend and acting like the world owes her a living.

It really does depend how much you are willing to allow her to risk in order to develop her as an adult.

Realistically, how long will she go without leaving the house? No make up = no social life. She may be happy to not go to college, but will she be happy to not see her mates?

And if you give her fair warning when she's still got it, then she's got time to sort it out without even running out. It all depends on whether she believes that you mean it...

She needs the biggest of all possible shocks. Hard as it is because as her mum, you want to protect her and certainly from anything as bad as having to start her a levels again.

But sometimes you have to look at the very long term and the adult you are hoping to release into the wild wink

Trills Fri 08-Feb-13 11:59:05

Living at home in pre-university fulltime education I would give some pocket money, if I could afford it.

If you can't afford it then it doesn't matter whether you think it's right or not, you can't afford it.

Good grief.
She needs to buck her ideas up.
I'm mid 40's and having to work full time and have a part time pub job.
I worked from age 13 and contributed to my mums household from age 16 when I started work full time!
She needs to start getting some independence. She needs to do her own washing and her own cooking.
She needs to help around the house and not for money but because she is NOT contributing with money so she needs to by helping out.
You really do need to take a stand now. She only goes to college half the time. What is she doing the other half of the time?
Times are hard for everyone and there are jobs out there but she has to understand that the majority of the population do jobs because they need to earn money and not because it's their 'dream' job. Very few of us have one of those!!!!
Stop putting up with it and stop enabling her!

havingastress Fri 08-Feb-13 12:00:59

(OP, you sound like a lovely person btw but with 18 yr old girls you can definitely be too nice!!!!)

Remotecontrolduck Fri 08-Feb-13 12:01:54

It doesn't sound like your DD has any excuse at all. If my kids had become so rude, the money would have been cut immediately, and they would have HAD to get one regardless of travelling time.

You need to put your foot down now, it's hard but she'll just carry on like this forever if you don't do something!

ZZZenAgain Fri 08-Feb-13 12:01:59

Well I would support her through A-levels so she can get on with sorting out her life in the long-term but beyond the essentials and maybe an occasional treat I wouldn't finance her lifestyle. Don't buy her make-up, don't give her money to go out. She will have to get herself a job in the end. She is just not motivated to make her life more difficult if she does not absolutely have to do it. What is going to happen after A-levels, does she have any plans?

HollyBerryBush Fri 08-Feb-13 12:03:34

They wont keep her at college with attendance like that.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 12:04:27

Thumbwitch I have thought about that whole switching from one course to another...she intends to do this one and then go to uni...hahahahahaha...how the hell she'd fund that I really don't know. She says she will go and live with her father as she is in a town where the uni is, so straight from living here to being kept by her father. She wouldn't have to emerge into the real world until she was...what...23?

I can remember some time back, I was feeling a bit crap and to cheer myself up I went to a nail bar and had false nails done...cost me all of £20. She went mental, as I had refused to give her money for something a couple of days previously. She was enraged...'oh, I see you have money for that, but not for what I want'! Says it all really.

amothersplaceisinthewrong Fri 08-Feb-13 12:05:24

Good, God, I think I would be showing this girl the door. Absolutely no pocket money. There will be some job she can get - my daughter, now 22, has always had some sort of part time job since the age of 16 - card shops, Boots, amusement parks. At 18 she ran a bar in a hotel for a summer.

Stop enabling her behaviour today!

HalleLouja Fri 08-Feb-13 12:05:28

My mum used to cut the plugs off my stereo etc when I was a pain. I was a bit younger and it was a bit harsh but your DD sounds like she might need it.

I used to babysit until I was 17 and then worked every holiday when at Uni and have worked ever since.

HalleLouja Fri 08-Feb-13 12:06:19

Maybe she could go and live with her dad.....

Remotecontrolduck Fri 08-Feb-13 12:06:28

Oh my goodness, I think you need to do something REALLY drastic here, her attitude is appalling.

You're a good person, but she's taking the piss. I'd have hit the roof if mine had behaved like that.

Believeitornot Fri 08-Feb-13 12:08:06

Why are you scared of putting your foot down?

Does you dd realise your in and outgoing and how tight things are?

diddl Fri 08-Feb-13 12:14:41

I would support through A levels-as I was.

However I had good attendance & was applying myself.

But it was the odd tenner here & there for a night /lunch out.

I was for that expected to iron my own clothes, look after my own room & do anything as & when asked.

ouryve Fri 08-Feb-13 12:14:47

Even without a job, she needs to be pulling her weight. I have much younger siblings and at 18, I didn't have a job, but I took care of them after school and during the holidays, I cooked family meals, washed up and did the laundry and mine and my siblings' share of the ironing, I took the dog for walks and I pushed a vacuum cleaner or duster around where it was needed. In short, I earned my keep within the house.

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 12:15:40

I'll give you an insight into what it could be like if her behaviour isn't changed now - my BIL is 38. He only does short term contract work, refuses to get a permanent job. This is because he has an attitude problem, especially when he drinks. Anyway. Every time his jobs fall through for whatever reason (contract end, thrown off for disruptive behaviour etc.), he comes home to mummy (MIL). Who takes him in, feeds him, clothes him, does his washing and basically gives him no incentive whatsoever to leave again.

After a very short while of feeling grateful and therefore behaving in a decent manner, he takes to drinking again. Then he comes home and shouts abuse at the neighbours, who sometimes call the police (which shames MIL). So she gives him money to go away for a bit. He does, and then it runs out and he comes back.

He had a house. While he was out of work, she paid the mortgage so he didn't lose it. He didn't live there though! He stayed there occasionally, and once when he was out of money and had lost his driver's licence yet again, he subsisted on the oranges off the tree in the back garden (and lost shitloads of weight).
Then he sold the house - got a tidy profit (6 figure sum!) - did he pay any of it back to his mum? Did he fuck. DId he do anything sensible with it? Did he fuck. It took him just over a year to go through it and then he was back whinging round his mum's.

Then he got drunk and violent and she called the police and she took out an apprehended violence order (AVO), like a restraining order, against him. He wasn't allowed at the house with alcohol on board, he wasn't allowed to stay overnight, he wasn't even allowed to visit without permission - for a year. So - Christmas, she has him over (fair enough, it's Christmas). It took 7 days for him to play up, and she left the house - neighbours called the police, the AVO will be reinstated when he's back in court - at some point, he might ACTUALLY go to jail for breaking it.

My point? His mum has facilitated this behaviour pattern over and over by giving him money and taking him in and doing everything for him, rather than giving him the tough love and guidance he needed when he was a young man. He's been like this for 18 years now - he's not going to change.

ZZZenAgain Fri 08-Feb-13 12:15:49

Maybe she doesn't know where she is going and is a bit afraid of being independent when she leaves home, so she is blocking it all out.

Not sure how to handle it. I would want her to work hard at A-levels and get good results. If she was doing that, studying hard, I would be more supportive because the goal would make it worthwhile but from what you say she is back at school but not putting in much effort.

One thing worth doing I think is to make her do her own vegetarian cooking now so she can learn the ropes and be able to cook her own vegetarian meals when she is at university or out living on her own. I think you probably have to be a bit cruel to be kind.

It would be good if she had a goal and knew what she wanted to do after A-levels. What course did she do which she now knows was not right for her?

diddl Fri 08-Feb-13 12:16:42

I did used to babysit as well-forgot about that.

Could she get a job cleaning?

When I did an HND

diddl Fri 08-Feb-13 12:17:48

Oops!

fulltime, most of the younger students had jobs.

Supermarket work?

bedmonster Fri 08-Feb-13 12:22:09

Good grief I would embarrased that I had let my daughter get away with being such a brat for so long tbh.
I knew a lady like this, she was absolutely lovely, well educated and not at all stupid. Her daughter treated her like a slave in her own home. The Mum cooked her snacks, took them to her bedroom, collected the dirty plates and picked up scummy washing. Washed it and not only delivered it to her room but put it away for her as otherwise it would just get reabsorbed into the dirty stuff again. Gave the daughter lifts to friends houses, parties, gave her money to buy drinks at the pub. Daughter had no motive to get a job - she had a cash cow.
The person causing the problem is you. You have enabled her to live her life this way, and you are the reason she still does it. Make a change now.

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 12:22:40

Here's an idea for her - she should get work in either a department store or somewhere like Boots so she can get discount on her makeup. It's quite a good discount at Boots, too!

Shellywelly1973 Fri 08-Feb-13 12:23:09

Op, my dd is 21 &ds is 24.

Ds was fine,worked through his a levels &uni. Although he loved going out&shopping, he didn't expect me to fund him.

Dd so different. Just this week something happened that has made me realise she's a self absorbed, entitled brat... I should have put my foot down when she was 17. I am thoroughly ashamed of her & realise what a rubbish job I've done with her.

Sort it out now, your dd needs to learn to be responsible for herself, i wish i had with my dd.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 12:27:09

Here's her trump card regarding college attendance. She has hypermobility syndrome, which is basically another term for double jointed. It does cause her to ache sometimes, I don't deny that, BUT...she can spend all day on the settee complaining of pain, then jump up, get ready and go out dancing all night. She lays it on thick at college, uses a 'disability' argument and they buy it. Now I would be the first to defend her and make allowances for her but I know she plays on it enormously, especially at college. That's how she gets away with such poor attendance. Other students in her class with higher attendance are on report at the moment.

bedmonster Fri 08-Feb-13 12:27:31

I and the other 2 DC spent all day cleaning bedrooms, hoovering, dusting, and generalloy making the house look nice but DD1 sat in her pyjamas ALL day on the settee watching tv!

And as for this, why didn't you make her help out? The reason is, because she would never have done it. Because you've never made her before. Because she knows everyone else will pick up the slack for her. I feel sad for your other children who were working hard for the good of the whole family to see their lazy sister slobbing on the sofa all day not being arsed about pulling together. And again OP, it's you who has enabled this.

ZZZenAgain Fri 08-Feb-13 12:28:43

maybe if she only has the option between voluntary work for a charity in order to get work experience or working for a wage, she'll get herself a job.

If she is old enough to vote/drive/drink/smoke she is old enough to pay her way.

No pocket money
No gifts of make-up etc. These are NOT essential.
No money for drinking. She wants a social life? She has to EARN it.

In fact, I remember my mum stating that if I was 18 and still living at home not only would I not get pocket money, but I would have to pay rent (if I had a job) - if I didn't have a job, then I would be expected to help out at home, effectively be a live-in nanny and cleaner for my mum smile

I did my A-levels and HND (living at home still) while holding down several crap jobs (caravan cleaning, shop work, call center etc). I left aged 20, and felt more than capable of coping by myself.

She will never learn to be independent if you don't show her how to.

ouryve Fri 08-Feb-13 12:37:38

Newpatches - I have HMS, too. I'm in my 40s now and it's really beginning to cause me difficulties, but the kids still need to be fed and got to school and the house still needs to be kept habitable and the laundry still needs doing and putting away. If she's well enough to shop and party with her friends, she's well enough to pull her weight.

CheeseandPickledOnion Fri 08-Feb-13 12:38:46

Rod. Own. Back.

You should have addressed this self entitled, disgusting behaviour years ago. Why on earth you've allowed it to continue is beyond me.

My Mum was a single parent of 3 and I had to work from age 13 for my own money.

No more money.
If she wants money, she can get a job.
Remove all expensive items from her room that YOU own. She needs to earn her own stuff.
Refuse to cook a seperate meal. Time she learns to cook.
If she wants to stay in the house without paying rent (and the only reason I don't think she should be is that she is still in education) then she must contribute with set chores. Clean the bathroom etc.

Grow a large set of brass MN balls and sort her out.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 12:39:35

Sorry, x posted as was on the phone, actually it was bf with another phone number of a tea room looking for staff.

I know it's largely my fault, so I don't take offence at anyone saying that.

bedmonster I am not quite as bad as that! The 2 older DC both have washing baskets in their rooms, it is up to them to sort it, bring it down and put int in the washing machine...I certainly don't go looking for it. having said that I only implemented that a week or so ago and no washing has come down from either of them yet!
I don't iron for either of them as I was sending piles of ironed clothes to their room and finding it dropped on the floor days later.

ZZ when if she goes to uni she will be living with her dad so again will not need to be self sufficient. But she can actually cook anyway.

She did beauty therapy, so she could work in a salon at weekends but doesn't want to. She hates children so won't babysit. She even tries to charge me for looking after DD2 on the odd occasion I go out.

Battery's about to go on laptop but keep posting and I'll go and plug it in.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 12:45:12

Again I know...but have I left it too late to change? A large part of it is that I felt terribly guilty for our pasts...me and their father divorced (he was cheating) and when I remarried it was to an abusive horrible violent man. So I have always felt like I had to make it up to them; we lived in a refuge for a while, lost all our material possessions etc.

The cleaning spree thing - the other 2 dc had to spend most of their time sorting their rooms out, but as DD1's room is always tidy she felt she didn't need to do anything. but when I told her to hoover her room (she has the dog in there and he moults a lot) she just kept saying she'd do it later.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 12:46:37

And when I tell her she needs to help out, do some chores etc as I can't do everything on my own she uses the 'I didn't ask to be born, you chose to have children so you should look after them'.

MrsDeVere Fri 08-Feb-13 12:46:39

My son is like this.
He doesn't live at home now.
He has been bought up by parents who work
He has been expected to pull his weight round the house
He has not been spoiled.

So I don't know how he got so 'entitled' either but it wasn't from his parents

op try the teenage boards for some advice.

MrsDeVere Fri 08-Feb-13 12:47:38

You have to stand up to her op
The don't ask to be born retort is ridiculous

socharlottet Fri 08-Feb-13 12:47:44

YABU.You are still entitled to tax credits and child benefits for an 18 yo in further education.My DS is 18 in the upper 6th and none of his friends have jobs apart from in the summer holidays and babysitting.I will not let DS have one until after his exams are finished it can and does have a bad effect on studies.

Maryz Fri 08-Feb-13 12:47:47

My 16 year old has just applied for a job in all the local hotels/pubs/restaurants. Her cover letter was a plea for work of any kind - she is happy to scrub toilets and work awful hours. She is also babysitting at every opportunity (despite the fact that imo some people take advantage and don't pay nearly enough).

She does it because she hates asking me for money, really hates it.

Part of me doesn't want her to work, as she has two years left doing very academic subjects at school, and will need very good results as she wants to do physiotherapy or paediatric nursing (places for both are like gold-dust in Ireland).

I have to admire her guts.

If you stopped giving your dd any money, would she work? Or would she make life very unpleasant for you, in which case should she be looking at moving out?

HecateWhoopass Fri 08-Feb-13 12:48:00

It's not too late.

It will be harder - for you AND for her.

It will be painful and she will hate you.

but in the long term, she will benefit and you will have to cling on to that knowledge to get you though!

That and wine. wink

MrsDeVere Fri 08-Feb-13 12:49:04

Tax credits and child benefit are not for subsidising tattoos and drinking

Maryz Fri 08-Feb-13 12:49:18

By the way, both my sons have no qualms about taking money from me (in one case, stealing money from me hmm), so I don't think it's they way they are brought up, necessarily.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 12:50:25

She won't clean the bathroom (or she will occasionally if I explode) but refuses to do the toilet as 'why should she clean up someone else's p**s'

She won't walk the dog (it hurts her arms)

She won't hoover the stairs (hurts her back)

Thursdays at college are supposed to be from 9 til 5 with a 3 hour break. She comes home at 12 because she doesn't see why she has to hang around for 3 hours, standing around makes her hurt (she can sit in the library) and yet after college today she is going straight into town to meet her friend and they will walk around for 2 hours.

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 12:50:27

Guilt is a terrible motivator in these situations, I think. MIL had that because FIL died when the boys were 17 and 19; I think that's why she let them take the piss (in different ways).

But now, let me redirect that guilt for you - you have done marvellously well to get them all grown up, healthy, in your own home, with food on the table etc. You have therefore paid your debt for the earlier problems. NOW you need to prevent yourself being in the position in 10 years time of feeling guilty that you didn't do more to stop your DD1 from becoming an utterly spoilt little princess.

You haven't left it too late to change at all! Just DO it, starting now.
If necessary, have a family discussion about it - say that things are tight financially and you won't be able to fund anything more than basics (all true!) - so handouts stop here and now. They can work for any money they might need; either for you or outside the house.

HecateWhoopass Fri 08-Feb-13 12:52:18

You also have to consider the example it sets the younger ones.

What when THEY start acting like her?

What if they resent you because they do so much and she sits on her arse?

You have to get tough.

It's going to be hell. But the alternative is worse.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 12:55:06

socharlottet really??? I'm being unreasonable? Tax credits go on paying for the roof over her head, the food she eats, the heat and lighting...I am not asking if I should be feeing her, I'm asking should I be funding her social life and paying for tattoos.

Maryz Fri 08-Feb-13 12:55:17

Don't ffs introduce payment for household chores - not at 18, please.

Because then you get the ridiculous "you aren't paying me enough to clean the loo, but I might condescend, as a massive favour to you, to put away my own clothes and charge you 20 quid for the privilege".

If you want her to do chores, make it dependent on thing she needs you to do for her - if she can't be arsed to clean the bathroom, you can't be arsed to drive her to town, or whatever she wants.

My children's half term starts today. And I have made a decision that things are going to change in this house.

I have bought wine to fortify myself for the inevitable rows grin

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Feb-13 12:58:08

NewPatches - take heed of Maryz - she's got the experience. smile

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 13:00:24

mary yes wine seems to be a good companion at the moment!

I feel horrible writing all this about her actually, because she can be a lovely lovely girl, and it is more for her that I worry than myself over this as she is going to be in for one hell of a shock when she goes into the big bad world.

dashoflime Fri 08-Feb-13 13:00:26

Jesus Christ:

Of course 18 is too old for pocket money. At 18 I'd been living away from home for 2 years, earning my own money. At 19 I was supporting Dsis as well.

My Mum once came round and found we had no cooker. She bought a camping gas stove for us for £50 and I felt horrible guilt that she'd spent what seemed like a huge amount of money that she couldn't really afford.

It always amazes me the kind of stuff other people expect from their parents.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 13:01:40

thumbwitch indeed...and I think maybe a trade off is a good idea - if she wants a lift then she has to earn it etc.

thegreylady Fri 08-Feb-13 13:02:53

YANBU
My dh died when dc were 12 and 16.
Ds who was 16 got a job washing up at the country club and gave dd pocket money from his wages!!

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 13:03:32

dashoflime I didn't leave home til I was 23 but I was very independent, at one time I had 3 jobs as I wanted to go backpacking in Greece.

She doesn't call it pocket money mind you...she calls it an allowance grin

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 13:04:36

greylady I am so sorry to hear about your DH, and that is so lovely to hear about your DS - you obviously did a wonderful job of bringing them up!

Maryz Fri 08-Feb-13 13:07:34

Oh, yes "allowance".

That's just an excuse for making it higher than mere pocket money. By calling it an allowance they can buy a pair of knickers a month, pretend they are buying clothes, and drink the rest. And they can say that because they once bought a container of shampoo which a sibling borrowed, they have contributed to the household costs.

I'm not bitter, oh no <lies>

diddl Fri 08-Feb-13 13:52:06

I don´t go out to work & mine are teens but they are still expected to do stuff-like put their washing in the washbox, clean & tidy their own rooms (or not as it seems!), keep the dining room/sitting room tidy of their stuff-clean toilet & sink after use if necessary...

It´s part of being in a family & living in the same house.

Unless they can afford staff when older (doubtful), they need to at least be responsible for their own mess!

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 14:08:01

The stupid thing is, she is very tidy - with her own stuff. her room is always tidy even if it's not hoovered. She hates mess with a passion, but refuses to just chip in and help regardless of who's made the mess in the first place. (I'm talking about general house stuff, not specific DSs stuff being left on the floor for instance.) You know, the general stuff we all have to do, like hoover, or dust, or walk the dog, or hang out washing...

Mary your posts are making me giggle so may I raise a wine to you for that!

Ah...tough times ahead I think.

meddie Fri 08-Feb-13 14:17:40

Stop funding her, apart from the basics. like food, roof over her head and attending college.
She will whine and tantrum and throw a strop, because you are not giving her what she wants, you need to be firm and not back down and it will be bloody hard, shes had 18 years to develop ways in which to guilt and manipulate you into doing her thing.
But after all as she said in her own words "I,m 18 you can't tell me anything anymore" she's an adult and if she wants to be treated like an adult then she needs to start behaving like one, along with the responsibilities that come with it.

Paiviaso Fri 08-Feb-13 14:21:26

You are enabling her laziness if you give her money.

There was a TV show a few years ago about young women who chose not to work, and depended on either their parents or men. The show sent them to work to convince them to have pride in fending for themselves. I don't think whole episodes are online, but please don't let your daughter become Kaycie: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00fffqk An incredibly spoilt brat, who emotionally blackmails her mother into giving her money. Her boyfriend dumps her in the middle of filming for being boring and clingy, and she fails at her job placements. Her attitude is horrendous.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Fri 08-Feb-13 14:30:03

Bloody hell, when I was her age I had already been working for 4 years! I used to love working, because I liked having my own money, and hated it when I was on basic hours some weeks because it meant I had less cash. My parents couldn't afford to give me money so if I hadn't worked I wouldn't have been able to go out.

When I was 17 and 18, I used to work the evening shift in a shop. On Fridays and Saturdays I would take my going out clothes with me and the manager would wait 10 minutes before locking up while I got ready at the end of my shift!

You need to stop buying her makeup and clothes (apart from some very very basic items)! If she hasn't got any makeup or fashionable clothes, she will soon want to earn some money. If she gets an interview then you could buy her something to wear for that (if she needs it) but you need to be strict with her. You will provide her with a home and food but if she wants a social life and nice things then she has to pay for it her self.

She sounds like a lazy little madam and you need to stop enabling this. She needs to have a work ethic instilled into her and soon, otherwise she will spend her life expecting someone to fund her.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Fri 08-Feb-13 14:33:20

TheGreyLady - what a lovely thing your DS did.

BonaDea Fri 08-Feb-13 14:34:34

YANBU.

[queue massive "when I was a girl" rant]

But I got my first part time job when I was 14 I think. It paid £1.67 per hour. By the time I was 18 I was going to uni full time, had a part time job and paid my mum 'digs' money. Of course it didn't cover all my expenses, but it was a gesture. She probably bunged me a tenner now and again out of the goodness of her heart, but it wasn't to be relied upon or expected.

I genuinely don't think you'd be doing her any favours to start shelling out now.

tinkerbelle31 Fri 08-Feb-13 14:43:08

point in her in the direction of the local job centre, tell her you will no longer be giving her money for nothing (dire staights song came in to my head then) if she wants money off you she has to earn it and at 18 she should be having some independance unless she is planning on living with you forever

OkayHazel Fri 08-Feb-13 14:45:43

I wish someone would pay for my driving lessons!

I'm 20 and still can't drive. Full time education has milked every penny I have earned since 16 and I've still never had a lesson.

StuntGirl Fri 08-Feb-13 15:02:08

Oh FSS OP put your big girl pants on and put a stop to this.

This is of your own making, you can stop it too. I would expect her to be a polite, contributing member of the household or I'd expect her to leave.

Whoknowswhocares Fri 08-Feb-13 15:04:28

Actually I do give DS an allowance. I'm lucky in that I can afford to. Out of that he has to pay for all his clothes, toiletries,gifts for people and social life. I pay absolutely NOTHING on top. If he runs out, tough till next month! Gives him some independence and teaches him to budget

However he is grateful and never grasping or entitled, has 100% attendance at college, is hitting his grade targets,does a part time job for extra cash and helps out at home as required. If he exhibited even one of the entitled, brattish traits of the OP's DD (or obv if my financial circumstances were different) he would get NOT A SINGLE BLOODY PENNY.

scarlettsmummy2 Fri 08-Feb-13 15:04:43

She sounds delightful. Don't give her pocket money until you have seen evidence of job applications.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 16:06:19

See, the thing is I've never had the means to spoil any of my DC, she unfortunately gets the 'world owes me a living' from her father. But I am guilty of allowing her to expect all the time. She is well known for her tantrums and moods and I have, in the past avoided those for the sake of peace. Her moods have even cost me a relationship in the past. But I will 'put on my big girls pants' and stop being such a pushover.

Good for you. She says 'you chose to have children.' (!) well she is not a child.

mumblechum1 Fri 08-Feb-13 16:15:19

DS is also 18 and he gets his "pocket money" from being in the TA and in order to get paid £9.25 on Tuesday night he had to go through a gas test, ie put a Chemical Biological and Nuclear suit on, then go into a gas chamber, take the hood off, recite his name, rank and number while the chemicals reacted with his eyes, mouth, nose etc and then puke up.

Makes asking "do you want fries with that" sound like a bit of a dream job!

ZZZenAgain Fri 08-Feb-13 16:22:16

well hard to get a job for someone who isn't interested in taking it up or keeping up and you can talk all you like, she won't do it if she doesn't want to. Only thing you can do is turn off the tap so she has to get herself a job. Only option she has then is to move in with her father or steal I suppose or drop out in protest. You have to know your dd.

I'd tell her that the reality of life is you work. You can do a (what she considers) menial job for a time while getting her A-levels or focus on A-levels and go without the social life, make-up, clothes for that period (ha ha). She can choose to get a job in the field she trained in which means being treated as a professional to some degree or take a walk-in job at a supermarket, shop or McD. The sensible thing to do is to take a job in a beauty salon where she might also get tips IYAM.

I'd also tell her that you can either do this type of job for a time while you train to do something which gets you better conditions and more money or you end up doing this type of work for the rest of your life. That is how it is.
If you are lucky she might think about it.

If she does go to university, she would be better off with a vocational training of some kind. I don't think she has the get up and go to study English literature or art history and find herself a job. Maybe she needs something more practical where the end certificate is the entrance ticket to a specific job.

Fairylea Fri 08-Feb-13 16:22:48

She needs to get a job.

She is 18. An adult and needs to learn some responsibility.

When I was 18 I was studying for 3 a levels (I missed a year or so of college with health problems) and I also got myself a part time job working in a pub, which was actually very good for me as I admit I was a bit stuck up and meeting some real people outside college gave me a better grounding.

I used to work 25-30 hours a week. I still managed to get AAB at A level.

zlist Fri 08-Feb-13 16:27:34

YANBU - I got a job as soon as I turned 13 and at this point my 30p/week pocket money (that was often forgotten anyway and I wasn't allowed to ask for it!) completely stopped. To my surprise I was given £100 for freshers week at uni and that was the very last contribution from my parents.

MusicalEndorphins Fri 08-Feb-13 16:28:28

My sons both have EDS Hyper-Mobility type, one can't walk without a cane, has a lot of pain. They never had an entitled attitude as your daughter does. You daughter's attitude is her worst enemy.
Maybe your daughter should go stay with her father and give you a break from her entitled attitude.

MusicalEndorphins Fri 08-Feb-13 17:27:15

Studying beauty treatments sounds like it would be easy ion her physically. Why has she decided that she hates it now? It sounds ideal for a person with HMS. Could she put a free ad up offering to do low priced make-up for people at a good price? (If she has the supplies needed that is). If that is the type of stuff she studied?
I don't automatically think people who act badly need any treatment, but they do think there is a connection in HMS with depression and anxiety. I don't mean to be dramatic or have you doubt yourself, but could she benefit from a medication? I don't have a daughter, but I do know they simply can be moody, so I may (probably am) way off the mark. Just thought I'd mention it.

comingintomyown Fri 08-Feb-13 17:44:09

It cant be easy writing all this and hearing the responses OP

In the short term it has been easier to cave into her because I'm guessing she is loud in her indignant attitude when she doesnt want to do something or isnt getting her own way. Perhaps you have just done whatever chore it is or given her some cash for a quiet life ?

I would be inclined to sit down with a straightforward list of household monthly outgoings with her and explain this is why you dont have spare cash. Then I would explain that you are no longer prepared to wipe her bottom for her as you would for a small child and that she needs to accept at her age she should have some responsibilities.

Before that you need to think about what you are prepared to do (not threaten to do ) if she doesnt mend her ways and set your mind to it.

I would make it a brief , quiet conversation and mean it as she does sound like she needs to be dealt with and by taking the path of least resistance in the past you find yourself here today

Bobyan Fri 08-Feb-13 18:04:24

I'd remove the TV from her room, refuse to buy anything any more.

Tell her that under 100&#8453; attendance at college will result in a £10 per week rent charge for every 10&#8453; she's under by (e.g. if she has 50% attendance she would have to pay you £50 rent).

If she refuses to comply tell her to go live with her dad.

Bobyan Fri 08-Feb-13 18:05:27

That should read 100 percent and 10 percent, respectively!

ratspeaker Fri 08-Feb-13 18:59:23

She is an adult
She is free to leave home and live elsewhere
If she can find a better deal -help her pack!

If she lived elsewhere she would have to contribute to tv license, council tax, rent, gas, electric, broadband, phone, bus fares, cable/sky bills , food

That being said I have 2 uni student DCs still living at home.
i dont ask for dig money but I do not provide pocket money.
They can have the bounty of what we have in terms of food ,tv, heating, light, insurance, entertainment, household bills
I dont provide takeaways, nights out with pals, tattoos, personal holidays, endless booze

Hattifattner Fri 08-Feb-13 19:07:28

oh dear....my DD's pocket money stopped at 16 - just before Christmas. SHe went straight out and had a job lined up for the Christmas hols - just a temp job, but she managed to earn £500 over holidays. SHe worked bloody hard, 12 hour shifts.

She also volunteers in two organisations - one a youth group and the other a sports club where she is learning skills that she will be able to use to get a job in future.

chipsandpeas Fri 08-Feb-13 20:17:31

christ at 18 i was at uni, working part time and giving my mum dig money - all i got from her was food and a roof over my head, everything else i paid for

HermioneHatesHoovering Fri 08-Feb-13 20:54:40

You have to ditch the guilt. My xh left 10 years ago, moved to other side of world, kids not seen him since. For a while I spoilt my kids, trying to be both Mum and dad but luckily for me I realised that they were starting to turn into brats and changed MY behaviour.

Her behaviour won't change until you change yours. Yes it will probably be painful in the short term but you have to do it for both your sakes.

My now 18yr old DD is doing a Uni course that is more than full time, she also works and is completely self funded except for bed and board which I provide. She would prefer it was different, but it isn't, she knows there is no other option.

The only way to change your daughters' behaviour is to change yours.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 21:04:33

No, it's not easy hearing the replies but they are expected and only what I would say to someone else.

DBF took us out tonight for dinner; DD came straight from college (well college and then mooching round town with her friend) and she was awful...her attitude was horrendous. I asked her how college was and she grunted, then I asked what was wrong and she said 'what do you want me to say? I hate college, why do you think my attendance was only 52%?' I replied that I was under the impression it was because she was ill and she said no, I hate going'. So I fear Thumbwitch may be nearer the mark than even she realised. She is only 6 months into this course, and although she is very good at it (she is doing psychology, sociology and English language) she won't apply herself to it.

She was horrid to DS at dinner too - he was talking about his band (he plays lead guitar) and she said 'huh, don't know why you bother, it's not like you're going to be any good or get anywhere is it?' Now I am very proud of DS's achievements - he taught himself to play guitar, he writes the songs, his band is playing at the school prom, also in the local party in the park, he has done volunteer work with the police, is in Air Cadets...he leads a very full life and is only 15. he saved up birthday money, Christmas money, and chore money and bought himself an electric guitar, then sold that and bought a better one...DD has NO interests. I am in the middle of doing several diplomas, have my own business, I write...so it's not as if she is surrounded by lazy couch potatoes and doesn't know any better.

I don't think she is depressed; she just has a very bad attitude to people and working.

HollaAtMeBaby Fri 08-Feb-13 21:09:30

YANBU so please stop being such a doormat!

All the things you provide that you are trying to justify (make-up, clothes - yes, even knickers, Quorn) are LUXURIES and she should be paying for them herself. From now on, don't buy her anything and let her eat what you eat or provide something else for herself - plain rice or pasta can be the onlyy veggie option you provide. Same with make-up.

LatteLady Fri 08-Feb-13 21:16:10

Can I suggest that not only do you stop paying her any money but that you also go on strike... no washing, ironing etc.

I would also talk to her course tutor and explain what you are doing and ask them to come down on her like a ton of bricks.

You already know what you need to do, so now just go do it... and if she plays up stick your fingers in your ears and start lalalalaing... teenagers really hate it when you do that grin

Maryz Fri 08-Feb-13 21:19:07

She really doesn't sound very happy does she sad?

I think telling her that you can't afford it might do her good. Do write out a list of monthly outgoings (tv, fuel, broadband, telephone etc, anything she uses) and tell her that you are already subbing her for a quarter of that amount, so she really needs to start earning.

If she hates her course, is there any point in discussing her doing something different - though it sounds as though she has already changed once. What does she want to do with her A-levels - would looking at that wake her up to the fact that she needs to work hard to get there (wherever that is).

What's keeping dd working is knowing where she wants to go next and knowing that she has to work bloody hard to get the grades.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 21:20:32

Incidentally, she is well aware that business is atrocious at the moment and therefore money is stretched to the limit.

DBF bought a wardrobe for DD2's room as she really has a make-do room at the moment. DD1 said that the wardrobe would go through the floor (odd thing to say as the house has been standing for more than 500 years) and that when the house collapses she would laugh at us all being homeless while she was in a nice house somewhere else. I don't quite know where this nice little house will come from, or how she will pay for it, but I just thought what an infantile nasty thing to say to your own family.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 21:26:51

Maryz she originally wanted to do forensic psychology, but now says she wants to do counselling; this however is not borne of a desire to help people but as an easy job, by her own admission. But she is so lacking in empathy that it would be a disaster, not that I have told her that. She says it is really easy money sitting listening to people drone on about their 'stupid problems' (I also find this disrespectful as I am a therapist - not a counsellor but similar and studied hard throughout my pregnancy to get my qualifications, and then set up my business which I lost once due to domestic violence and having to move and have now set up again).

TheFallenNinja Fri 08-Feb-13 21:26:58

I'm afraid this is one of those horrible times when you have to sit them down quietly, take their hand, look them in the eye, smile and remember them growing up then tell them to grow the fuck up.

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 21:29:27

ninja I have said that to her, lol...almost word for word when she has exasperated me so much actually!

JuliesSistersCousinsAuntsCat Fri 08-Feb-13 21:31:21

You could by my mum talking about my sister only my sister is 19 and in her last year of a 3 year college course. She also has a BF who has his own house but my mums is her main residence code for my mum doing Dsis washing and buying her food blah blah

I tell my mum time and time again to stop giving her an allowance as it enables her to remain lazy. I see part time evening or weekend jobs around and it falls on deaf ears. She won't learn to be self-sufficient until she has no choice but to do so. I've heard from mum that Dsis' BF won't let her move in until she learns to be less selfish and lazy (his words).

I've given up on offering mum advice. She never does anything to help herself or the situation. I have huge sympathy for you OP. Hope it improves soon.

Writerwannabe83 Fri 08-Feb-13 21:37:03

I stopped getting pocket money when I was 14.

I then got myself a paper round (which I hated) for rubbish money but it was either that or I went without. I had a part time job during high school, college and when I was doing my degree. The only time I was given some money from my mom when I was younger (i.e aged 14-16) was at Christmas so I could get my family and friends presents. Apart from that, unless I worked I got nothing.

You're right, your daughter should be embarrassed smile

Stop giving money to her and let her tantrum all she likes. She will soon realise she is an adult and that if she wants to buy things then she needs to earn the money for them herself smile

Maryz Fri 08-Feb-13 22:00:09

FallenNinja has it.

"dd1, I love you very, very much, but I am concerned about you. You aren't happy, but you are an adult now and I have to leave you to make your own decisions. I will always be there if you want to talk, and I will back you in any way I can, but I can no longer afford to buy your luxuries, and I think it is important that you become more independent".

Then run away, fast, and open the wine.

By the way, I would never criticise someone giving an allowance to an 18/19 if they can afford it. Or at certain times. For example, where we are, the last six months of school are very full on (8 subjects, high standard, very high marks needed in all). So I would expect dd to stop work by Christmas in her final year and would be prepared to give her (some) money for that six months if she needed it (but not for tattoos or for a very wild social life).

NewPatchesForOld Fri 08-Feb-13 22:33:38

I wouldn't be so adverse to giving her money sometimes if she showed some inclination towards helping herself, and if I could afford it. But it's the idea that she thinks it's my duty to pay for her luxuries (that I can't afford for myself) that is really sickening me.

flaggybannel Fri 08-Feb-13 23:20:43

sorry to hijack and apologies if anyone has already asked this but where was this card shop with a vacancy?

I want it for a second job! 15 years experience in retail, i will take any hours they offer, i am hopeful my current job can juggle the hours fortunetly my boss is understanding.

Pm me if you like

Thumbwitch Sat 09-Feb-13 03:10:43

Oh hilarity at the idea of her becoming a counsellor!!
Well, as you no doubt know, NewPatches - she wouldn't get through the training because even if she passed the theory, she'd be failed on competence.

How would you feel about her going to live with her father? Is that even an option? Would he pander to her, or would he make her actually do stuff to earn her keep? might be an option if you think it would shake her out of her current indolence.

The comment to your DS - sounds like jealousy. I am not for ONE MOMENT suggesting that she has cause to be jealous of her brother, in terms of your treatment of them - but she might be subconsciously jealous that he has all these things going on in his life, without acknowledging that he's actually worked for them.

Going back to my BIL - I know he's jealous of DH. DH doesn't accept it, but I know he is because of his actions - and he thinks the world owes him too, and that he should have as much or more than his brother. But, like your DD1, he doesn't see that he should have to put any effort into achieving it.

missingmumxox Sat 09-Feb-13 04:15:24

I stopped pocket money at 16, got a job at McD's, a pub and holiday jobs in an office, for the 3 years up to starting nursing, my McD'd 5 star cert is my facebook profile pic, 23 years on, It is Ironic but I am a bit proud I did it.

ENormaSnob Sat 09-Feb-13 04:16:37

She sounds horrible.

Hesterton Sat 09-Feb-13 06:36:35

She doesn't sound happy and you sound angry in a way which isn't helping her. You are listing in each post more and more of her crimes, but you haven't said what you will do about it. It sounds like she is receiving messages that she is not likeable at the same time as being encouraged to continue her behaviour through things like the driving lessons being gifted. Confusing for her.

Please remember that there is no switch that can be flicked on when you reach 18 to make you suddenly become and behave like an adult. It is a gradual process and in my personal experience, disruption in childhood, even VERY early childhood CAN (sometimes) along with a multiple of other issues which are no-ones fault, slow down the process.

FWIW I think she needs some tough love, but with an emphasis on the love bit right now. Your DS sounds really lovely which must be hard for her.

I think Maryz's words are ideal ones to use. She needs to know she means the world to you as your other children do. And she needs to know you love her so much you are going to hand stuff over to her and allow her to be the young adult she is by growing into the role with dignity. And she needs to know that you believe she can do it, you have faith in her. So keep handing it back, consistently and kindly. Don't pay her anything. Don't do her chores. Don't get involved with her college attendance, keep telling her you know she will do what is right for herself and her future and hand the letters back to her. Even when she fails, repeat, I know you are a clever, resourseful person who will choose the best thing for yourself. Even if you are thinking the opposite. Make it clear that she lives in your house if she helps with some communal chores. Say that is the way it is. If she still doesn't help, withdraw laundry/feeding and suggest she considers finding alternative acommodation which will help her to enjoy being an adult. Because you love her and you want her to be a successful adult.

Good luck OP, you are not alone in this sort of problem; many of us have been through it and come out the other end with wonderful, funny, independent and grateful (eventually!) daughters.

Matildaduck Sat 09-Feb-13 06:57:31

Omg i had a friend like this...she still doesn't really work. Bit of this and that but no actual career or money to speak of. ( she's. MId 30's)

just say no.

NynaevesSister Sat 09-Feb-13 08:49:49

I was going to say what Hesterton said. Basically, at some point she learnt to associate how much you love her with how much you give her. And of course that is never enough. As we all know things don't fill the gap but she hasn't learnt that. This behaviour is oh so familiar from the step families support groups I have belonged to in the past.

So the answer is to stop giving her money, things, and your help. Give her your time, smile as much as you can when she is around to reinforce good behaviour, tell her that you love her lots even when she throws it in your face, don't react to her when she mouths off and instead just listen to her. Finally stand firm. You are a good mother, believe in yourself and she will start to believe in herself too.

And when things are at their worst, peek in on her sleeping. You will see her real face, the lovely little baby and girl you remember. It really helps get you thru those tougher teen years.

MerryCouthyMows Sat 09-Feb-13 08:55:47

Christ on a bike! My nearly 15yo DD with multiple complex needs is trying to find a weekend job FFS! She has one place, a bakery, that might take her - she has to go there again next weekend to sort it out. As the manager said, it doesn't matter if she can't read Shakespeare, as long as she can bake! (Which she can. Awesomely.)

I would LAUGH at an ADULT if they asked for money at 18 - by 18 I was working FT and had a DC.

DD knows that there is no way I can pay for driving lessons for her, and no way I would - it would have been a great motivator to get a job.

You can say no to your DD over this without any guilt IMO. She CAN get a job, she just doesn't want to.

MerryCouthyMows Sat 09-Feb-13 09:11:18

I have Hypermobility syndrome that has now caused me to develop arthritis. I have 4 DC's, 3 of whom also have Hypermobility syndrome, and pain from it. We all still have to get on with day to day things.

I have to do the housework as much as possible, and the DC's have to help me with that too. Tbh it sounds like my 9yo with SEVERE Hypermobility syndrome (to the point where he didn't walk at all until he was 3y7m, and has developed kyphosis so severe and painful that yesterday the orthopaedic consultant said he is at risk of ending up in a wheelchair if his Physio doesn't have enough effect.)

He does more round the house than your 18yo DD. Hypermobility syndrome is painful. But it isn't an excuse to do fuck all and mooch off your Mum forever!

MerryCouthyMows Sat 09-Feb-13 09:15:54

Socharlottet - The OP may get Tax Credits, but surely that is to cover the electricity, gas, water, food and basic clothing that the OP's DD requires? And possibly her travel to college too.

TC's certainly don't give you enough to fund a child's social life!

TC's work out to around 54 a week per child if you are getting the maximum. Which is unlikely as the OP works. Once you have paid fares to college and bought food for that DC, there won't be anything left over.

Maryz Sat 09-Feb-13 11:58:57

NynaevesSister, that's a very interesting point about " at some point she learnt to associate how much you love her with how much you give her".

I never thought of it like that, but with us all having such busy lives I suspect this will become more and more of a problem with kids - we no longer have the time to spend with them, to teach them how to deal with, eg household chores, finances, that type of thing. Instead we are busy earning money to buy them things.

I'm going to remember that in the future. It's a valuable lesson. We need to teach our children that sometimes we show our love by not giving them things.

By 18, I was working f/t, pregnant and in a house share. I had an entitled attitude but finding myself homeless at 17 really helped, I worked in McD's which was one of the best jobs I've had.

I would be offering her choices to knuckle down to study, get a job and pay board and lodgings, get a full time job and pay b&l or get a job and find another place to live.

18 may be young, but there's no need for entitlement, she is an adult and she needs to be treated like one.

Sallyingforth Sat 09-Feb-13 12:32:15

I had to laugh at the counselling too! Sounds like she needs to be receiving rather than giving it.
At 18 she's an adult and needs to be at least attempting to support herself.
You are not helping her by pandering to her entitled ways.

NewPatchesForOld Sat 09-Feb-13 13:57:37

believe me, I have tried sitting down with her and trying to explain things to her. I'm not angry - if you knew me you would laugh at that because I am one of the most easy going people you could meet! I am fearful for her future mostly, and hurt by her attitude towards me and the other Dcs, but not angry. I was behind her when she said she wanted to do forensic psychology, bought her the books, watched the documentaries with her etc. I've never said she couldn't make it as a counsellor, even though I know it would be the wrong thing for her to do as she just doesn't have that empathy required. I've always encouraged the DCs to reach for the moon.
Yes, I believe she is jealous of DS, but there is nothing I can do to change that - he is a go-getter and she is not, and I'm certainly not going to try and get him to hold back so she doesn't feel inadequate.
She has every Monday off college, and we always either go into town, go to costa and have coffee and cake or if it's a crappy day we will snuggle up on the settee and watch programmes she wants to watch or a film etc. Mondays are our day, and the other 2 DC don't get that, so she isn't lacking in one to one attention from me.

Merry please don't think I am minimising the HMS, I'm really not. I have fibromyalgia, and at times I have to use a stick to walk. Part of that is also extreme debilitating fatigue so I do know what it's like, but I know for a fact that she plays on it, and she admitted that last night when she said she takes all the time off from college because she hates it, not because she is ill. Now that makes me angry, faking illness to be lazy. I also had cervical cancer this time last year, so I know more than many how badly illness can affect you, but I am a single mum of 3 and I had to keep going, keep getting up every morning. And I worry that she will be unable to work because she cannot bring herself to do a full day's hours.

I've spoken to her this morning about her behaviour last night. She said she was tired and in pain and that made her grumpy. I said I understood that but that it was no excuse to be mean, and that she owed her brother an apology...she refused to do that.

I don't mean to drip feed, or keep adding to her list of 'crimes'; I love my DD very much, she was my first born and will always be special and I do show all the DC that I love them every day. I am very affectionate, I cuddle them all, kiss them, and we all say 'I love you' man y times a day, including DD1. But I can see her ruining her future before it's even begun, and that panics me.

I encouraged her to see the student counsellor at college, as I thought there might be something she felt she couldn't tell me, or that it might be something I am doing myself and she doesn't want to offend me. She made an apt but never went. We talk about everything, are all very6 open with each other and they all know I will always have their backs.

NewPatchesForOld Sat 09-Feb-13 14:00:33

We even go to the cinema on a Monday morning if there is something she wants to see that we can't see with the other Dcs, so she really does get more time, and attention, than the others.

Thumbwitch Sat 09-Feb-13 14:12:58

Well something has to change, Newpatches - perhaps you should cut down on her special Monday time, just the two of you - it seems like she thinks she has you twisted round her little finger, show her otherwise. I expect you pay for everything on those town/cinema visits too - she is spoilt, and her expectations that you will treat her differently/more specially than the other two are being reinforced by these Mondays.

Rather than doing something self-indulgent together, perhaps you could both do some voluntary work on a Monday instead? You could then still have your together time and it might encourage her to be less selfish.

NewPatchesForOld Sat 09-Feb-13 14:28:39

Thumbwitch yes something has to change and it has to be me who changes it.
I just don't understand her - if I was paying her less attention than the others I would expect this playing up for attention, but she already gets it...go figure!

I actually have heaps to do on a Monday, I am working on several projects to try and get the business growing, but I try and keep Mondays clear. I will suggest the voluntary work to her but I think I know what her response will be (something along the lines of she's not working for nothing)...if she won't get herself a paid job she's not going to do it for the love of it.

Hope you have a good weekend all smile

NewPatchesForOld Sat 09-Feb-13 14:29:36

Sometimes you can't do right for doing wrong as a parent can you? hmm

Thumbwitch Sat 09-Feb-13 14:35:44

Can she help you with any of the projects? That might be a way forward? It might help you out as well. smile

Hope you have a good weekend too - good luck! (I'm off to bed now, other side of the world, very late here!)

Sallyingforth Sat 09-Feb-13 15:05:50

if you knew me you would laugh at that because I am one of the most easy going people you could meet!
^ That
You are being too nice to her and she is taking advantage big time. Next Monday instead of taking her out to the cinema, sit down with her over a local paper's part-time job adverts.

Startail Sat 09-Feb-13 15:24:57

Personally I expect to fund reasonable expenses and socialising for my DDs until they get uni loans, but we live in the sticks.

There are shop and pub jobs, but my time and petrol to facilitate them doing them may well not be with it.

mrsbunnylove Sat 09-Feb-13 16:39:16

my understanding is that if you bite their tails repeatedly, they will leave the den.

NynaevesSister Sun 10-Feb-13 09:14:58

Marz thank you. It is a hard learned lesson that the last few decades have taught parents in situations where there has been relationship breakdowns. I was able to learn from the mistakes of others too and not do the same with our kids. It really is new terriotory, our grandparents didn't have to parent in the same world we do.

OP the more you say the more I can see where your issues might really lie. You see yourself as being involved and showing support by doing things like getting all her books, watching the documentaries. The message she is getting though is that you don't think she can do it on her own. And she doesn't have any confidence in herself so gives up and doesn't try.

You need to back off and leave her alone to work her own way through this. Stop the money stop telling her what you think she should do. If she wants to be a counsellor then say good for you. Off you go. If you want to do this then I am sure you can do it.

NewPatchesForOld Sun 10-Feb-13 11:59:43

NynaevesSister I never tell her what I think she should do apart from that she should actually attend college!?!

I buy the books she needs because it is part of her education, and I watch the documentaries because she asks me to. I have no qualms about funding her education, buying the equipment she needs, only with funding drinking and inking. And I said earlier that when she said she was thinking of becoming a counsellor I never told her to do otherwise.

You say I don't think she can do it on her own...on the contrary, I know she can and this is why it upsets me to see her not trying.

thumbwitch yes, she could very well help with some of the projects, so I will see about putting that into practice, thankyou smile

NynaevesSister Sun 10-Feb-13 13:02:18

No I didn't say you said that at all. I said that might be what she is getting from all this. Did you go and get the books? Or give her the money she needed for them (and if she spends that money on going out tell her tough go get a library card). So if you sorted all the books out and/or organised the doc viewing then the message is you don't think her capable EVEN tho that's the opposite of what you think! If you left it all to her to organise and just ordered the books when she gave you info on what and where, or gave her the cash, and sat down to watch the docs that she had sourced/figured out in tv schedule then frankly you've done the best parenting job you can and really stop beating yourself up. Good will out, and if you nip this money thing in the bud now then she will come out of this OK. May be a while though!

Yfronts Sun 10-Feb-13 14:16:34

In those circumstances, she must earn the money. Will be a good lesson for her. If she was studying at UNI, working part time and needing a bit extra towards food, that would be totally different.

Yfronts Sun 10-Feb-13 14:17:25

Tell her you will help her find work. Then help her. What sort of job does she want to do?

NewPatchesForOld Sun 10-Feb-13 15:39:14

nynaevesSister...sorry, my mistake smile. She had to find the books on amazon and then I ordered them, as it was with my card. I didn't source the docs either, I'm actually really interested in criminology so when there is a programme on she will tell me and I'll watch it with her.

Yfronts I've bent over backwards to help her find work, believe me. Even my BF will text me numbers/details of jobs he thinks she'll be interested in but she never really pursues them. She's applied for 8 jobs since November (I had a long talk with her yesterday) and 5 of those were to the same company but different branches. TBH I don't know what sort of job she wants to do - as nothing that comes up seems suitable.

YouOldSlag Sun 10-Feb-13 16:09:14

8 job apps in 3 months is not many. She is being too fussy.

NynaevesSister Tue 12-Feb-13 08:18:29

Then I think you've tried everything and the only thing left is to not give her any money, leave her to sort out everything on her own, and ignore her bad behaviour. Don't respond to anything she says. In another discussion we were talking about the success many people had had using toddler training methods on immature and bullying bosses. It occurs to me that her behaviour is very similar. Try the same techniques?

SunflowersSmile Tue 12-Feb-13 08:22:41

Sorry not read whole thread as about to go out...
Baby sitting for extra money?
I did this from age 14 [back in the olden days!!].

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