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To hate the police?

(269 Posts)
DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:32:24

BF was pulled over by an unmarked police car today. He got out of his van and was told he was not wearing his seatbelt and they issued him with a £60 ticket. I came home from work and he told me the story and told me he was wearing it. He has a beeper that goes off every few seconds if he doesnt have it on and no one would drive about listening to that. I know he is telling the truth. If we appeal it then we put our case forward and then goes to court but if the fiscal find the police in favour we will have a higher fine. But i do not want him to pay the fine because that is letting them away with this. Corrupt filth. Not sure what to do :/

Facebaffle Thu 07-Feb-13 17:36:25

"hate the police", "corrupt filth" hmm

This will not end well.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:38:48

If you do not think they are corrupt you need to open your eyes.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:39:17

Do i need to remind you of Plebgate? All lies.

Sparklingbrook Thu 07-Feb-13 17:39:21

Ooh dear. I think your post could be worded a bit differently Dr. What do you think you should do?

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:39:53

Hillsborough

MariusEarlobe Thu 07-Feb-13 17:40:30

Yabu it's ok be passed off at one officer you feel was wrong but yabu to hate all police because of this. They aren't all bad like any job.

And I say this as someone who has gone through a court process and had it overturned after police acted wrongly.

And as someone who had a really crappy experience and made a formal complaint about my and my small dd s treatment by an officer.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:40:54

I want my bf to appeal it but it does run the risk of the higher fine if not in our favour. But i just think it is so unfair. His word against theirs. I think they were bored.

FellatioNels0n Thu 07-Feb-13 17:41:18

Yes. I haven't even read the OP but yes.

StuntGirl Thu 07-Feb-13 17:41:25

Agenda much grin

Writehand Thu 07-Feb-13 17:41:32

I have to say that, though I'm quite certain there are lots of excellent police officers, my experience of the police personally, as the mum of teens, has been extremely patchy.

I'd always assumed the police were a great service and that you could rely on them. This is not always true and they do not always tell the truth or obey their own rules. It's been a real eye opener for me.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:41:35

Ok Marius, there is some hope!

ginmakesitallok Thu 07-Feb-13 17:41:45

Why would they falsely accuse your dp of not wearing his seatbelt? And you can't compare that to Hillsborough ffs!

Pandemoniaa Thu 07-Feb-13 17:42:22

If you can't understand that all the police are not corrupt then there's little point in discussing this very minor issue with you. Pay the sodding fine. The police generally have far better things to do than stitch up van drivers.

yousankmybattleship Thu 07-Feb-13 17:42:31

Oh dear!

It is, of course, possible that your Boyfriend is lying about wearing his seatbelt because he thinks you'll bollock him for being so stupid.

Oh, and yes you are being unreasonable for "hating the corrupt filth" simply for doing their job and enforcing a law that saves people's lives.

manicbmc Thu 07-Feb-13 17:42:45

And how did your bf react to being pulled over? Was he polite and respectful? Or did he get all huffy with the constabulary?

He needs to either pay up or appeal it either way. No point in going on about how unfair it all is.

FellatioNels0n Thu 07-Feb-13 17:42:47

Corrupt filth? shock

Oh dear. Poor you. Perhaps you should move somewhere nice and cuddly like....oh... Hang on...

You lost me at Hillsborough tbh.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:43:11

Agreed Writehand. None of my experiences have been good.

Sparklingbrook Thu 07-Feb-13 17:43:32

I have had reason to need the police twice and they have let me down both times. But I don't think they are corrupt filth.

Pandemoniaa Thu 07-Feb-13 17:43:36

I suspect you have a little knowledge of corrupt filth as you have of perspective.

Facebaffle Thu 07-Feb-13 17:44:19

There are a few police officers on here and they would not appreciate your comments.

What was their response to your bf when he stated he was wearing a belt?

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:44:20

He is always polite. He is such a nice person. He wouldn't lie to me. I wouldn't tell him off is he came back witha genuine fine, it's his mistkaes. But this, I know he is not lying!

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:45:37

They said they saw a gap between him and the door..so obviously that means no seatbelt? He has a black seatcover and was wearing a black fleece so i think they just didn't see it. But why let him get out of his van, why didn't they walk up to him to see through?

SirBoobAlot Thu 07-Feb-13 17:45:51

Yes they issued a ticket because they were bored. They just wanted the extra paperwork, I'm sure hmm

biscuit

whattodoo Thu 07-Feb-13 17:46:44

I don't know if you're a Dr in the medical sense, or Holmes like a detective. Either way, some in both of those professions have been found to be rogues in the past - but I bet you would bristle at being tarred with the same brush.

Trazzletoes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:47:06

Seriously, why would they pull someone over and go through the hassle of fining them if they aren't breaking the law?

For fun?

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 17:47:39

Yes.

NumericalMum Thu 07-Feb-13 17:48:14

I have only had good experiences with the police. They were more than helpful when my house was broken into. And when my DH's car was stolen. Therefore YABU as clearly all police are not "filth"

PandaOnAPushBike Thu 07-Feb-13 17:49:35

Go to appeal. How can they possibly prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' if he was in fact wearing his seatbelt?

littlemisssunny Thu 07-Feb-13 17:49:40

Every job has good and bad people, what a horrible sweeping generalisation!

You sound charming hmm

yousankmybattleship Thu 07-Feb-13 17:50:19

Let it go Dr H, you're coming across as a bit of a mentalist. Pay the fine. Move on.

Dahlen Thu 07-Feb-13 17:52:31

THe police are like any other public service - you get good and bad ones. They are held to account though and regularly audited, more so than in many other professions (and quite rightly so given the power they have).

I can't see any of them issuing a ticket unless they were sure that the seatbelt wasn't being worn. What on earth for? The fine doesn't go in their own pockets. It is possible that they were mistaken, of course, but that's a world away from "corrupt filth".

YABU.

And you sound positively lovely hmm

ChestyNut Thu 07-Feb-13 17:54:08

Yes YABU and a bit ridiculous really with such a sweeping generalisation.

Corrupt Filth hmm

FlorriesDragons Thu 07-Feb-13 17:54:09

I've had first hand experience of a corrupt police officer. I was in the car with a relative who was pulled for speeding when the car in front of her pulled out of her street too fast and noisily. She definitely wasn't speeding and the police officer was being an arrogant so and so and throwing his weight around and booked her. grin.

Luckily the court went in her favour as the neighbour saw what happened and stopped at the scene and admitted it was him and then paid a visit to the police station afterwards to confirm it. But it was really very frightening to go up against a police officer in court.

My teenage boyfriend was a police officer and I heard several stories from him and his friends which would make me very skeptical about trusting the police tbh. Thankfully I don't tend to have any involvement with them generally. grin

BabyRoger Thu 07-Feb-13 17:58:59

Well, if he did not commit the offence then go to court and say that.

zippey Thu 07-Feb-13 18:02:30

The police are corrupt but they always have been. Unfortunatly its human nature and the police are human beings. Power corrupts people. There are many cases of corruption, look at cases like Mark Duggan, racism/sexism, police leaks to newspapers, protecting/prewarning phone hackers in The NOTW, racist stop and searches etc etc.

Not all police of course, but a large minority. Im just thankful that the corruption isnt as bad as other countries.

Having said that, they do have a lot of rubbish to put up with. But what can you do, its your word against the police officers. Good luck.

grovel Thu 07-Feb-13 18:03:27

I did jury service. One of the cases required us to decide whether we believed a police officer or a defendant. 9 of the jury were never going to convict on that basis. They had had bad experiences or knew people who had. Most of them thought the defendant was probably guilty but there would always be "reasonable doubt" in their mind simply because they mistrusted the police.

Trazzletoes Thu 07-Feb-13 18:05:06

Omg grovel 9?!!!!

Cassarick Thu 07-Feb-13 18:09:17

When the police pull you over you just sit in your car seat until they approach your window. Do not move. Do not undo your seat belt. When they approach you wind down your window.

You certainly don't get out of the car/van and go to them.

Dahlen Thu 07-Feb-13 18:12:24

We have one of the least corrupt police forces in the world. I seriously contest that it's a large minority. Yes there are some corrupt officers, simply because statistically speaking there are bound to be in such a large organisation, but they are not a large minority.

It's also important to distinguish between the Met and other constabularies. They are a world apart and most of the headline grabbing cases being referred to here involve far higher-ranking officers than your average bobby on the beat and are closely intertwined with politics.

The average police officer - the sort who issues FPNs for not wearing a seatbelt - will routinely be dealing with domestic assaults, shoplifting, thefts, drunken idiots who beat each other up and then turn on the police officers who turn up to try to stop them injuring each other, oh and of course the ubiquitous RTC in which the effects of not wearing a seatbelt are often spread all over the road in front of them. And with all of this comes the hours and hours of paperwork in which everything has to be recorded in minute detail.

But they're only issuing FPNs because they're bored and fancy ruining someone's day of course. hmm

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Thu 07-Feb-13 18:13:37

Well some of my friends and family are 'corrupt filth' so I would say YABU and you sound awful.

LittleChimneyDroppings Thu 07-Feb-13 18:13:44

Some of the police are corrupt, same as any other profession. Hopefully the majority are not though.
If your dh was wearing a seatbelt then appeal it. I certainly would, even if I ran the risk of a higher fine. Its the principle.

yousankmybattleship Thu 07-Feb-13 18:15:09

Everything Dahlen said.

amillionyears Thu 07-Feb-13 18:18:15

op. Genuine question.
Does your bf ever lie to anyone?

BlueyDragon Thu 07-Feb-13 18:20:40

YABU. Stop generalising. Contest it if it's wrong. Or is the entire criminal justice system corrupt filth too?

Nancy66 Thu 07-Feb-13 18:21:31

There are some amazing people working for the police - and a handful of dodgy ones.

however I doubt any police officer could be arsed issuing wrongful fines for not wearing a seatbelt - it's not like the police officer can make any money from it.

CatelynStark Thu 07-Feb-13 18:25:01

I rarely have any contact with the police but when I have, they have been absolutely wonderful. Maybe we have all the nice ones in our city hmm

littlewhitebag Thu 07-Feb-13 18:27:19

I work alongside the Police and from my experience they are mostly hardworking, decent people. I have been pulled over for using my mobile in the car (was stationary at traffic lights not moving) I accepted i was wrong and paid the fine. I won't do it again. My police colleagues thought it was hilarious. I was blush. They don't usually stop people just because they are bored.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 18:27:22

you know those beepers that go off if you are not wearing your belt do stop beeping after a few minutes.

its your right to go and argue it out in court if you want to do that. Most traffic cars do have recording equipment fitted though - so be absolutely sure of his innocence first.

there you go. advice from the filth. use it wisely - i dont give my filthy advice to just anyone you know....

frustratedworkingmum Thu 07-Feb-13 18:30:35

They issued a ticket because they were doing their job!! The police put themselves in dangers way every day to protect the public so anyone who posts shite like this is in my book a bit of a mug.

You know, my DP got pulled by the police when he was driving his van, he had forgotten to renew his insurance by four days sad It was really frustrating as we got a big fine and points on his license which has meant that he has had to pay more for insurance for the past few years.

I did think this was unfair but there was nothing we could do, he wasn't insured, yes it was a genuine oversight on our behalf but he was still breaking the law. The policeman WAS understanding though as he COULD have impounded the van but he advised DP on how to make an appeal etc.

HE WAS JUST DOING HIS JOB no way would i say he was "bored" or "corrupt filth"

Seriously! how old are you?

catsmother Thu 07-Feb-13 18:35:05

Yes Dahlen. Well said.

My 22 year old son is, apparently now, "corrupt filth". Quite literally, his life could potentially be at risk every time he goes to work. He's lost count of how many bodies - in various states of repair - he's had to pick up (from both RTAs and train incidents). But he presumably thinks that's a price worth paying in exchange for a bit of good old fashioned "corruption". My cousin is a DCI - she's been involved in bringing to justice paedophiles, rapists, murderer's etc. Stuff that would sicken you. But what really drew her to the job was the opportunity to terrorise innocent members of the public, take advantage of the power she holds and lie left right and centre. Obviously.

Talk about a sweeping stupid ignorant statement.

I'd say a large majority of the force are honest and dedicated in the face of (often) extreme pressure. And that's pressure from the situations they encounter quite aside from the swingeing cuts being imposed again and again and morale at an all time low. If the police - generally - (leaving aside the minority who do abuse their position) are failing to do their job properly it's usually not for want of trying from ordinary officers but because there are far too few officers being stretched far too far.

I knew a protester once who hated the police - once said in my presence (DH was a cop) that all the 'filth' deserved to die etc. etc.

Then he went to a protest in the States, got roughed up (not severely), was put in a jail cell without being formally charged, was released 2 days later, tried to leave the country, was detained at the airport, shouted back at the police there, got roughed up again, was detained for a further couple of days, and finally came back to the UK where he now has nothing but praise for the UK police grin

Obviously some police are a not great. Same as doctors, nurses, teachers, plumbers, stylists, dentists, farmers and poets.

OP you are most unpleasant, and not terribly bright.

Yabu - I have had both positive and negative dealings with the Police, you cannot judge every single officer on the actions of a few. Even my dearly departed MIL who was beaten by Police whilst heavily pregnant didn't do that.

Ilovefluffysheep Thu 07-Feb-13 18:43:31

Love all the police bashing threads that come up on here!

I am one of those "corrupt filth" you like to generalise about. Of course there are some dodgy officers around as others have said, sadly it's human nature and police forces across the country are sadly going to have some officers that have got in that are less than honest.

Happily, they are very much in the minority. Despite this, they give the rest of us a bad name.

I very much doubt any officer would want to give a ticket for no reason. Traffic process = paperwork = writing up a file that takes at least a couple of hours. No officer wants to do paperwork for the sake of it, believe me. We have far too much unnecessary paperwork as it is.

Of course it couldn't possibly be that your boyfriend is not telling you the whole truth and maybe trying to save face? Love that the automatic assumption is its a dodgy cop!

JustplainoldBuggerlugs Thu 07-Feb-13 18:44:57

Well I came here prepared to flame you OP but all the other reasonable Mners have done it for me.

DH is a Police Officer. Not corrupt, not filth, and would never pull someone over 'for fun'. In fact, the paper work associated with it would mean he'd be home late.

I'd suggest you realise men lie, a lot. He was probably lying OR the officer GENUINELY thought he wasn't wearing it.

<marks spot>
<opens crisps>

Flobbadobs Thu 07-Feb-13 18:45:25

Wy don't you google police corruption and see what it really means? Our police force have bad officers but compared to some other countries we have the best.
Try looking up police corruption in say, Mexico. That makes fun reading...
Instead of bitching about hating the police, grow up and contest the fine like an adult instead of a whiney baby.
YABU.

Flobbadobs Thu 07-Feb-13 18:46:02

Should have read:
Our police force has some bad officers.

PandaOnAPushBike Thu 07-Feb-13 18:48:18

My only serious involvement with the police is when my, then undiagnosed, autistic teen went completely off the rails. The police officers who dealt with her were amazing. They didn't let her get away with anything (quite rightly so) but they could tell there was something different about her and handled her accordingly and with exceptional kindness (whereas I wanted to lock her up and throw away the key). The advice they gave me was instrumental to her getting diagnosed, supported and finally back on the straight and narrow.

JustplainoldBuggerlugs Thu 07-Feb-13 18:51:29

Panda are you the Mner who made a sign for that woman driver?

Sorry if not!

10storeylovesong Thu 07-Feb-13 18:57:44

I'm also one of the "corrupt filth" that you mention. I'm currently sat watching the news - two of my colleagues were shot down and killed last September while doing their job and trying the help the public.

We do not join the job to give FPNs - they create unnecessary paperwork and are quite frankly a pain in the arse. While working a minimum 10 hour shift with no break as you have been rushing from job to job to job, the last thing you want to do is deal with an irate motorist. But once you have had to tell parents that their teenage son will not be coming home because he didn't put his seatbelt on, you will see the point of it.

Yes, there are dodgy officers - as there are dodgy teachers, doctors, shop assistants, builders etc. They are few and far between and believe me there is a very robust system to deal with these.

However, I'm sure that your boyfriend is a saint and has never lied in his life to save his own neck...

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 18:59:04

A friend of mine was beaten up (quite badly) by her exboyfriend and he got off with a warning...not totally sure it was something to do with the fact that her exbf was the goalie for the local police footy team hmm

Also, an exwife of an officer in the nearest large town to me said all the officers drink and drive (on nights out etc) and 'look out' for each other shock

Flobbadobs Thu 07-Feb-13 18:59:31

10storey I went to Manchester the day of one of the funerals. Totally heartbreaking thanks

10storeylovesong Thu 07-Feb-13 19:04:15

seenenough all domestic violence cases go to the CPS for a decision and so are taken completely out of police hands. And as for your second point, I think the fact that she is ex wife says it all. Bitter?!

10storeylovesong Thu 07-Feb-13 19:06:23

flobbadobs it was heartbreaking. Two young women cut down in cold blood.

But they've probably given FPNs in the past so no doubt they deserve it, right op?!

BMW6 Thu 07-Feb-13 19:08:45

Quite ridiculous OP. Thats all.

LtEveDallas Thu 07-Feb-13 19:09:56

There are rotten apples in every profession. You partner may or may not be telling the truth, but to make such a sweeping statement and in the same breath to make comment on Hillsborough is truly mind boggling.

I suggest you have gone far too far here.

MrsWolowitzerables Thu 07-Feb-13 19:11:28

YABU and ignorant and well, generally you sound a bit of a tit.

PandaOnAPushBike Thu 07-Feb-13 19:12:35

Panda are you the Mner who made a sign for that woman driver?

As I don't have a clue what you're referring to, I think not.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 19:14:01

im getting used to these threads now - but its nice to see the majority support what we do for the most part. (yeah - im 'the filth' too.)

i hate issuing FPNs. i hate form filling actually full stop.
and files
i dont like doing files.
so on balance its unlikely that anyone enjoys it enough to give spurious tickets for fun.

seen - it matters not a jot who you are or what job you do - coppers who get caught drink driving know they risk everything - their job, reputation, livelyhood, pension, i doubt very very much that anyone would "look out" for an officer breaking the same laws they are paid to uphold. not in this day and age anyway. Also your pals boyfriend may have got a warning because they police followed due process - you cannot lock someone up and throw away the key for a first offence - when you say beaten up i would be interested to know what section assualt he was cautioned for....a caution by the way is still held on record. its not getting away scott free.

there are lots and lots of misconceptions about the police out there but thankfully most people understand we are there to help them, even if that means giving them a ticket for a seatbelt if it saves us scraping them up off the road later....

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 19:14:26

I was a witness and the police dumbed down the evidence like nothing I've ever seen before - when my statement was read back to me in the police station it was very unlike I had said it, and when I told the officer that, he wrote 'the witness is changing her statement and now says...' And when I questioned that he said it was 'procedure'...I stopped arguing at that point but knew the outcome wouldn't be a good one for my friend.

And yes an ex but not a bitter one. She was telling it as a matter of fact story to a group of us friends and we were all shock

I'm sure the police are not this way everywhere - just relaying my experiences. If I had any good ones I would relay them too, but that is all I have.

KeepingCalmAndPostingNicely Thu 07-Feb-13 19:15:23

All the serving Police Officers here - truly, ignore this piffle. This is a cracking example of a goady thread. The base story is so weak it's almost laughable.

BrianCoxandTheTempleofDOOM Thu 07-Feb-13 19:16:23

yes, OP, Police - utter bastards.

Totally unfair on your darling partner (sounds like he's taking the piss quite frankly to avoid getting a bollocking from you)

Shame they get so arsey with motorists not wearing seatbelts. It's not like they have to attend RTC's with non-seat belt wearers hanging dead through the windscreen.....oh wait.

FellatioNels0n Thu 07-Feb-13 19:16:24

Don't you write your own statements? confused

TickleMyTitsTillFriday Thu 07-Feb-13 19:17:02

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

If the policeman was corrupt, surely he would have offered to 'make the fine go away' for a small fee? Or he would have accepted the note that one keeps in one's driver's licence pouch for this purpose, without comment, and sent your boyf on his way. I don't think you entirely understand how to work with corruption, or how to identify it. Possibly your complaint here ought to be about perceived police bias, or misuse of power, but this is definitely not corruption. Also, you give no evidence as to the officer's state of cleanliness, whether moral or physical, so filth may also be an inaccurate term here.

/pedantry

Seriously, get a life. Some cops are up themselves, some are diamonds, they're human. Appeal if you're so sure your boyfriend was right. Police have to listen to idiots every day who are convinced they're not criminals just because they've had one beer too many/weren't doing that thing you said they were. Scrape a few bodies up at 2am and see how sympathetic you are to someone who is confrontational and thinks you're filth.

BrianCoxandTheTempleofDOOM Thu 07-Feb-13 19:20:14

Corrupt Police - first hand experience. 2001. Mexico City.

(thankfully I was not in the car, having to attend a meeting in the hotel)

Colleagues being driven to work at the airport. Police pull them over, get them out of the car, point guns at their heads. Show them a bag of drugs. Tell them, in no uncertain terms, that if they don't hand over all their cash they will arrest them for possession and they will die in a Mexcian jail.

THAT is corrupt. I don't think the UK Police are quite as bad really....

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 19:20:36

Vicar - it was ABH, but we discovered after the case he had broken her jaw (she was in so much other pain with kidneys, bowels etc she had hardly noticed the jaw pain) so I believe it would have been GBH had that been known?

Anyway - no matter - he got off.

Like I said, just relaying my experiences, which proves in my eyes that one or two aren't as straight as the rest of you.

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 19:21:26

Although, I Wouldn't go as far as saying all police are filth obviously.

DharmaBums Thu 07-Feb-13 19:21:41

YABU.. and probably a bit blinded to your BF lying too

you sound a nasty piece of work

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 19:23:40

Ok people, I do understand there are good ones and bad ones. But I also think there alot of deals going on behind the scenes that we do not know about....yet.

I was just feeling sorry for my bf when I posted. Since been to zumba and relieved some stress. So apologies to people offended but I really do think it's unfair and I do think police are bullies with a power trip.

I watched the documentary/series about Police officers that was on a few months ago and one of the policewomen said "It's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but in my eyes everyone is guilty until proven innocent." Sums it up to me. (I said "to me" ok? so don't take the hump.)

He is going to appeal.

Thanks for the posts. And to whoever said I sound charming..I am smile

Branleuse Thu 07-Feb-13 19:25:34

yanbu to have a mistrust of them. yabu to hate them all as people.

BoreOfWhabylon Thu 07-Feb-13 19:28:51
chicaguapa Thu 07-Feb-13 19:30:02

My dad is ex-police. Unfortunately my Dbro had a very unpleasant experience with the police, backed up by the other passengers in the car and he made a complaint. If our dad hadn't been in the police, it would have changed his view of them for ever.

So yes, there are some real dickheads out there whose power goes to their heads. But there are in every profession. YABU to make such comments based on one incident at which you weren't even present and are basing it on hearsay.

AIBU to say it's usually a certain type of person who has that attitude towards the police and you sound just like one of them? Or is it just the OP that's allowed to generalise and be derogatory? hmm

I bet that DrHolmes would be on the phone to the 'corrupt filth' in a heartbeat if she was burgled.

And she'd be up,in arms if anyone said that all van drivers are lunatic drivers with no respect for the rules of the road.

Ashoething Thu 07-Feb-13 19:32:54

Am on the fence with this one. I had dealings with the police when I was younger and they were horrible to my family. Were next to useless when dealing with my abusive stepdad and pretty much told my mum it was all her fault for being a single parenthmm

Dh works alongside the police also and he doesnt have a very high opinion of them either. I think people put them on a par with the all nurses are "angels" bollocks and sadly its not true.

amillionyears Thu 07-Feb-13 19:44:05

You did say elsewhere that you think the justice system is a joke.
What did you mean by that?

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 19:44:45

seen - if it was a section 47 and a domestic in England then the case must have been put to the CPS - Im always wary of second hand stories relayed 'from a friend' your friend may well be right in her disgust if he got off and -and he may have got off with a caution - but there will be more to it than that - there is policy and procedure to follow and im pretty certain that a S47 (and a domestic to boot) cannot be written off just because they like the guy - it truly doesnt work that way. If it had your friend would have grounds for complaint - did she complain? Who made the decision to give him a caution? the police? the CPS? or magistrates court?

drhomes - was it a traffic car that issued the ticket?

catladycourtney1 Thu 07-Feb-13 19:48:15

I don't understand what the police officer would have to gain by doing this. It's not like the money goes into his pocket. It's just a lot of unnecessary paperwork, it wouldn't make sense for an officer who was in a bad mood or whatever to make more work for himself for no good reason.

Theicingontop Thu 07-Feb-13 19:49:43

Yabu.

Saying that, I have my own reasons not to trust the police. I'm wary. I wouldn't say I hate them, because that's a bit like saying you met an Irishman who was a prick, and now you hate the Irish.

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 19:52:02

Vicar - I don't know...my friend wouldn't go to court because she was so scared of him and she knew one of his his best mates was one of the officers dealing with the case (which was why he played football for the team).

All we know is very little came of it...I think he had to go to an anger management course. Seriously, those of us who are not police officers don't know the ins and outs of the 'sections'...my friend struggled to make any sense of the whole thing, and no one told her she could appeal. She was in no fit state to anyway...the whole thing broke her. Was quite a frightening time for me too as I made her go to the police in the first place and I had her ex giving me menacing looks anywhere I saw him for a while after.

All I am saying is that she was not protected by our local police, and had we have lived somewhere else the outcome would have been quite different.

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 19:53:14

Vicar - I mean that the case went ahead but she wouldn't attend because of her fear of him.

scurryfunge Thu 07-Feb-13 19:55:10

OP, you need to suggest to your boyfriend that he needs to clip the seatbelt into the clasp and sit over the whole belt to avoid those annoying bleeps.

ShakeWellBeforeOpening Thu 07-Feb-13 19:56:28

All van drivers are tossers - (enough generalisation and ignorance there for you OP ?
hmm

biscuit

Just as I am typing this the news is reporting the trial of the man who murdered the two female police officers last year - go on hating there why dont you OP !

BigPantyGirl Thu 07-Feb-13 19:57:29

YANBU I agree with you, in this situation the police have been total wankers. I hope your BF manages to get the charge overturned.
The filthy corrupt arseholes manhandled my partner before Xmas for no reason - other than someone else nearby was causing a kerfuffle! They hit him round the head twice and were shoving him around. Scumbags. He's the most gentle quiet bloke ever - they make me sick. Fuckers!!! And I'm related to two police officers and they're total lying twats too.

ShakeWellBeforeOpening Thu 07-Feb-13 19:59:49

Nice ...

juneybean Thu 07-Feb-13 19:59:52

Wow.

BlueyDragon Thu 07-Feb-13 19:59:53

Police are "bullies on a power trip".

biscuit

HollyBerryBush Thu 07-Feb-13 20:01:28

TBH qith you OP, I'm no advocate of the police these days. I say that as being brought up in an entirely police personnel family.

Frankly, their selection process is shot to bits, I do seriously wonder exactly where they get them from. I say that in a parental capacity, a work capacity and again in 'victim' capacity.

ChestyNut Thu 07-Feb-13 20:02:23

Here. biscuit

WeAllHaveWings Thu 07-Feb-13 20:02:37

dh was spot fined £60 for not wearing a seatbelt when he was wearing one. I am 100% certain he was wearing it as he is one of those drivers who does not feel comfortable driving without one on.

The police said they spotting him, across a roundabout, crossing his left arm over to the seatbelt and pulling it on when he saw them. He wasn't, he had a cold and was wiping his nose on the back of his hand BOAK!

It was a pain in the arse paying the fine as a court case would have meant time of work, probably at an inconvenient time.

Do I hate all police? No, I believe they made a genuine mistake and its a pain it cost us, but they are just doing their job (one that can be extremely tough at times and I could never do).

My SIL had many dealings with many different police officers over a period of 3 years while she was a victim of an on-going crime and they were brilliant with her. I was there during visits from police officers, statement taking and the eventual court case (where unfortunately the verdict was a very frustrating not proven) and every police officer I met was very helpful and supportive.

YABU to hate the police.

MrsWolowitzerables Thu 07-Feb-13 20:02:41

On a tangent, OP YABU to say alot its "a lot".

<pedant>

slhilly Thu 07-Feb-13 20:06:33

I'm sure that there are many fine police officers. However, I think people are downplaying the serious, extensive and longstanding issues of police abuse that occur in this country. The fact that it's worse in other countries is irrelevant. What matters is whether it's bad on an absolute scale. To my mind, there are four major problems:
- there have been some really serious abuses of power, eg hillsborough, sus laws etc...
- in part this is due to a damaged culture. I imagine a Francis report for the police would be just as grim reading on this point, and in particular would be highlighting the defensive and closed mindsets that are very prevalent. These mindsets are unsurprising and tough to eradicate given that...
- it is obviously in criminals' interests to try to get off by making false accusations, so distinguishing the real police misdeeds from the false claims is tough, and this is made worse because...
- becoming a police officer is an enticing career choice for bullies. And some bullies are quite good at pretending not to be bullies for the purpose of recruitment and retention tests.

Plomino Thu 07-Feb-13 20:07:38

Holly .

They get them from a cross section of society at large . That's why we have quotas to try and recruit to , so as to try these days to accurately reflect society. . If you don't like it , that says a lot , doesn't it ?

You know what ? I'm fucking sick of being pulled to bits by people who have absolutely NO concept of what I do . I don't walk into their places of work , tell them they're shit, corrupt , filth , and I could do their job better and for a lot less money. You want to change it ? They're recruiting for specials . Have a go .

Very ill-timed thread, with the current court case of those two police officers who tragically lost their lives protecting the public.

Your generalisations are ridiculous, and are making you come across as extremely thick.

Flossish Thu 07-Feb-13 20:08:07

My Dh is a police officer. He's got far too much other interesting stuff to do rather than stop people unnecessarily.

Do come and update us after the appeal, won't you??

OP, you sound ridiculous. I hope you were just aiming to get a response, as otherwise you sound unhinged.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:12:37

vicar It was an unmarked police car so I'm not sure what they were?

Can you tell me what the process is for appealing/the liklihood of wininng/losing? There were 2 policemen and only my bf. He did argue it a bit then realised they weren't changing their minds.
I also called our areas non emergency police line and complained and the woman I spoke to said she'd write a note against the ticket number to say we were going to appeal and that note will show up on the notes if it goes to court so hoping that will be in our favour?

I've only ever had shit experiences with the police and I still think YABU. As an aside, the best of these was my mother being pulled over for impersonating a woman and driving a stolen car. They had checked the wrong reg number, so the car came up as stolen. On stopping her and checking her driving license, they acused her of having stolen then driving license as she was OBVIOUSLY a man and Horrace'sMum'sName in the license is clearly a female. They arrested her and took het back to the station. It was only on stripping down to het vest (36G) that they finally believed she was in deed Horrace'sMum and was female... grin.

Anyway, evidently no need for that tale, but I love it and try to tell it where possible. THAT is police stupidity though OP, not being potentially wrong about seatbelt wearing.

AmIthatWintry Thu 07-Feb-13 20:16:01

I like youwiththeface's response.

Honestly, "corrupt filth" hmm OP, sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.

....and as for the poster upthread who thinks the Mark Duggan case was down to corruption. WTAF.

AnneElliott Thu 07-Feb-13 20:19:23

I don't need to say YABU up generalise as everyone else has already done that. I work with loads of Police officers and while some are definately in the wrong job, the vast majority are doing their best and came into the job to protect people.
I go think the Policd themselves need to do better at getting rid of the bad apples but that is happening slowly. Appeal it if they made a mistake but I can't see why they would make it up.

AmIthatWintry Thu 07-Feb-13 20:19:49

Oh, just caught up with the thread and note that the OP phoned up and complained.

The beef is between the police and your bf. You phoning and complaining makes you sound like a possessive mother.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:22:03

No, I called up to complain it was unfair and asked for advice on what to do. Don't see the big deal?

Flossish Thu 07-Feb-13 20:24:39

If it was an unmarked police car then even more reason for him doing something wrong to make them stop him IMO.

These are not usually 'beat' bobbies - ie, they have continuing work loads and don't particularly want additional jobs to add to their work load.

amillionyears Thu 07-Feb-13 20:24:50

DrHolmes, you have not answered either of my questions.
Lets hope your bf is going to be better at answering questions.

slhilly Thu 07-Feb-13 20:26:23

Plomino

"Holly "
I'm guessing this was for me

"They get them from a cross section of society at large . That's why we have quotas to try and recruit to , so as to try these days to accurately reflect society. . If you don't like it , that says a lot , doesn't it ? "
Like any job, the person spec for a police officer is meant to rule out some people from the role, because not everyone can do it. Reflecting the ethnic and gender mix of the population is a completely different thing from this. And incidentally, the police have a terrible track record in reflecting community diversity, worse than almost every other public service and considerably worse than many private sector organisations too. Dal Babu has just retired: see what he has to sayon the matter

"You know what ? I'm fucking sick of being pulled to bits by people who have absolutely NO concept of what I do . I don't walk into their places of work , tell them they're shit, corrupt , filth , and I could do their job better and for a lot less money. You want to change it ? They're recruiting for specials . Have a go ."
This is exactly the defensive mindset I was describing. There are many other jobs that have very high stakes and huge pressures. Healthcare is an obvious example. Defensive mindsets in health were one of the causes of MidStaffs. They were a cause in Hillsborough too. They need to be addressed, by the system and by the people within it. Reflective practice is vital

cumfy Thu 07-Feb-13 20:28:05

It may be worth trying to find out if they had video in-car.

It seems likely they are are traffic police and therefore more likely they had video.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:28:17

They were sitting on a road off the main road and my partner was going over the roundabout.

My bf has no reason to lie to me. If he hadn't actually been wearing his seatbelt and came home with a ticket I wouldn't be screaming and shouting at him! I'd just say that's what he gets for not having it on.
We can afford the fine but because it is unfair and he was wearing his seatbelt he's going to appeal.

thegreylady Thu 07-Feb-13 20:29:06

I agree absolutely.I haven't trusted the police since I was stopped while driving Dh's new[secondhand] car. I had the tax disc for the old car [traded in] face down on the dashboard and the just expired disc for the new car was displayed.I had all the documents and was on my way to the post office to tax the car-it was the day after we had bought it[paid 8pm Sunday stopped by police 11am Monday].
I was accused of fraud!
The worst thing was when the young policeman told three separate lies in court and was believed.I did stupidly say in court;"Until today I have taught my pupils to respect and support the police. I will never do that again."
This was 24 years ago and I have never forgotten or forgiven them.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:29:23

cumfy - thanks, will look into that.

JaquelineHyde Thu 07-Feb-13 20:32:41

Yes, yes that's right the police are all corrupt arseholes.

Every health care worker is negligent and uncaring.

All care home workers are abusive

and

All men of the cloth (particularly Catholics) are peadophiles.

Now if we apply this rule of generalisation to Mumsnet posters based on your OP we could conclude that...

All MNers are ignorant, offensive cunts.

hmm Probably all feels a little bit silly when you think of it like that doesn't it op?

thegreylady Thu 07-Feb-13 20:33:21

I have,however met several kind and helpful policemen since we moved house. So I must qualify and say I don't hate 'the police' just the two young liars who were out that Monday morning.

Plomino Thu 07-Feb-13 20:33:33

Slhilly

You guessed wrong . And fwiw , I used to work under Dal Babu . I have heard quite a lot on what he has to say . On many , many subjects .

ComposHat Thu 07-Feb-13 20:33:54

"Fuckin with me cause I'm a teenager
with a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics"

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:35:50

Amillionyears - My bf has never lied to me or his parents or friends in the 3 years I have known him. He doesn't need to. He is a good guy. Nice, genuine and quiet. He works for himself and is slowly building up his business. We live in a small town so anything to give him a bad name/ruin his career is really worrying. He needs his van for his business.

To answer the justice is a joke quesion..well, I just think it is. There's cases in the papers everyday about people doing terrible things and getting little to no time. Then people doing smaller things with pretty harsh sentences. Doesn't make sense to me.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 20:38:04

ok
first - seen - you just answered your own questions as to why he got off with a caution - no victim giving evidence means no case. so thats that. not the polices fault - not tbhe courts fault - but if the victim wont give evidence then there is absolutely sod all anyone else can do - we convict on evidence - that was the thing lacking here if no one will give it.

second - plom - ignore ignore ignore. I think i am starting to realise - indeed i had my own thread last night where i had to sit through a hairdressing appt while the salon manager slated all police because he got stopped for no seat belt....this is the most thankless job i have ever ever done. Im thankful that not everyone thinks this way - but people dont like getting caught doing things they shouldnt and who do they blame? the people who caught them. obvious innit? no one blames themselves....its never their fault.

third - OP im sorry - but your DH is lying. If a plain car stopped him for no belt - he likely had no belt. I am willing to bet that it was a plain traffic car (the sneaky beaky ones) and it will have video evidence available - do think carefully about whether your DH is being honest with you or not - if he thinks you would be cross then he isnt gonna tell you is he? you said yourself you would be screaming at him.....
i am betting my bottom dollar that he wasnt wearing that belt - am waiting with baited breath for that video evidence to come out at court....

and now i will bugger off before my hackles go up.

AmIthatWintry Thu 07-Feb-13 20:38:05

Yes, no big deal to phone and complain about something that has nothing to do with you hmm

How old is your BF. He can drive, so clearly over 17, but can't he fight his own battles.

AmIthatWintry Thu 07-Feb-13 20:39:37

oh for goodness sake

The "corrupt filth" don't hand out sentences.

FFs

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:41:39

He was going out and I wanted to call them before they closed. Really not seeing the big deal here wintry

vicar I said I would't be screaming! I will try and find out if they have a camera then. I am trusting my partner, he doesn't have a reason to lie and he really wouldn't.

MrsBW Thu 07-Feb-13 20:41:40

Funny how it seems to be the case that people who label the Police as 'filth' are the ones who have regular dealings with them...

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:42:39

wintry - I know that. Amillionyears was referring to another coment i made in another post last week.

Plomino Thu 07-Feb-13 20:42:58

Vicar , you're right . Thank you . It's been a long long week , and I should know better . Thanks for reminding me of that . Genuinely and with no sarcasm implied or intended.

I too am going to disappear to a much more interesting topic . A new pony !

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:43:32

MrsBW - I haven't had regular dealings with them.

thegreylady Thu 07-Feb-13 20:45:13

Plomino I envy you the new pony smile

marriedinwhite Thu 07-Feb-13 20:45:22

Regardless of opinions about the police; I would send a letter with the cheque for £60, copied to my MP saying something like:

Dear Sirs

I am enclosing a cheque for £60.00 in relation to the fine issued by PCx and PCx on x date.

I would like to point out that I immediately undid my seatbelt as soon as I was pulled over as a matter of courtesy to the two policemen who I did not expect to have to come to my car to speak to me. I also thought it was helpful to get out and speak to them directly and face to face.

Whilst I appreciate the two officers may have been mistaken and quite understand this, I would like to point out that I was wearing a black top, sitting in a black seat and the seat belt is also black. In those circumstances I appreciate the two officers may have been mistaken.

I think it is a little regrettable that a fine has been issued in the circumstances and can assure you that I was wearing a seatbelt. I would find it most helpful if either of the two officers would provide any evidence that I was not wearing a seat belt and would be grateful to receive any photographs taken of me in the care that evidence that I was not wearing a seatbelt.

with best wishes.

Yours faithfully
The OP's BF.

If he really wasn't wearing a seat belt and is happy to send such a letter, I bet you get your cheque sent back.

And next time your bf is pulled over, tell him to stay in the car seat and pull down his window to speak to the officers; at which point he should ask if they would like him to get out.

MrsBW Thu 07-Feb-13 20:46:56

DrHolmes then you have even less cause to call them 'corrupt filth' don't you?

In my experience, the ones to shout their mouths off about the Police are the ones who, if they just behaved themselves for 5 minutes would have far less cause for complaint.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:48:45

MrsBW - I did apologise for my first OP and said I was angry when I posted.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:49:19

Thanks married. He has been told!

Egusta Thu 07-Feb-13 20:50:32

I have had three dealings with the police, and every time they have let me down and/or lied.

I have talked about this before on Mn and elsewhere, but here goes again.

1. During the great snows of 2009 I was walking my dogs in the woods and a man shot an air-rifle at me. i called the police, gave them directions to where I was, plus a description AS THIS WAS HAPPENING IN REAL TIME and was told ' we do not have any units in the area but if we need to call you can we do so on this number?' i.e. the mobile i was calling from in some distress. i heard nothing further. At the time i was utterly terrified and panicking.

2. a few years ago when we had drunk violent people screaming and fighting outside our door on a Saturday pm. i was told 'we have no units in the area, i can give you the phone number of the environmental agency and you can make a complaint on monday about the noise'.

3. about 6 months ago when Dh and i were driving, and we were pulled over and Dh said in genuine confusion 'why have you stopped me?; and the policeman screamed in his face 'don't you dare question me. Are you questioning me?' and when DH said 'no, i am asking you a question' and the reply was ' i will have you for being disrespectful'.

We are still waiting to hear the outcome of that one, as Dh got a ticket, but it says that if you hear nothing further for 6 months, then no charges are laid. i was THERE, and DH was NOT doing anything wrong and was NOT disrespectful, merely confused.

So, TBH, I look at the police and only feel hostility and wariness.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 20:50:43

can i just say- genuinely - a black belt against a black top still has a nice silver buckle that is really obvious if its not plugged in....

just saying.

i suspect however nice your BF is that he is fibbing but let it go to court if you are totally sure. let a magistrate decide.

plom - i shall be picking your pony brains soon - its coming together at last and i reckon another 8 months and ill be pony buying too! My sgt says im impossible to wind up....im getting that way the longer i last in this job! ive learned there is no reasoning with the unreasonable!

No idea whether the OP's chap was in the right or the wrong but some police officers are power-hungry bullies. Some are decent human beings trying to make the world a better place.

I've done jury service in the past, and I remember two cases on which I was a juror (one after the other) - in the first one, the police were lazy, arrogant racist thugs. In the second, the defendent was a lying little chancer and the police officers honest and competent.

However, as some local councils use parking offences as a frankly dubious money-making tactic, I wonder if the same applies to minor traffic offences in some areas?

BUt let's not forget that some police officers are really bad people.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 20:53:49

and lets not forget that some people are really bad

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-21365109

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 20:54:35

They didn't say anything about a siilver buckle they just said there was a gap inbetween my bf and the door.

MrsBW Thu 07-Feb-13 20:55:34

DrHolmes you said 'apologies to those who were offended' (I wasn't, I just think the view you initially expressed is idiotic) and then proceeded to call police 'bullies on a power trip'. Another generalisation. They may be some bullies, but not all.

By all means avail yourself of the appeals process and hopefully you'll be successful.

Eugusta

Scenario 1 - That's awful. Did you complain?

Scenario 2 - Unfortunately unless there was immediate risk to life or property (which there may have been?), if there were no units available, I can kind of understand.

Scenario 3 - What was the 'ticket' for?

ComposHat Thu 07-Feb-13 20:55:37

I worked quite closely with the Police in a previous job.

I don't think they are corrupt, but a proportion of them were as thick as mince and some were clearly are on a power trip. It seemed that this was inversely proportionate to the actual power they weilded. The Plastic Cops (PCSOs) being the absolute worst of the lot.

In my experience the younger ones who seem to think they are robbo-cop and a handful whilst not corrupt seemed to revel in their capacity to bully and intimidate people. Others were lovely, fair minded and the salt of the earth.

On the whole, Older cops I have come across at work seem more measured and reasonable in their approach. One old bugger who was coming up to retirement and spent most of his shift in the bookies. He was known as the Gurka as he didn't take any prisoners.

marriedinwhite Thu 07-Feb-13 20:58:13

TBF - I have only ever found the police entirely polite and entirely helpful. They even once called us at 2.30am in the morning because they found an Oyster card with our surname on it, belonging to an under 18, in the possession of someone they had arrested. It didn't belong to either of our children but we have a very unusual name; and they called on the pretext that our dc were safe and hadn't had anything stolen. We were rather irked at the time and DH made a point of calling the commanding officer the next day and noting that he was concerned that they had tried to keep someone in the cellss for longer than necessary on spurious evidence and over an Oyster card - although probably not an Oyster card that person should have been in possession of and I seem to recall they were concerned that if it were our daughter we might have been concerned if she hadn't come home hmm.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 20:59:15

ok. What im saying is that its very clear if someone is not wearing a belt because if you have eyes you can see the silver buckle....but im going to stop now because you believe your DP. thats fine. go to court.

there is always a gap between the door and a person - unless its a very unusual car. i can guarantee that you are not getting the full story.

but go to court and argue with the magistrate. I am very much hoping they do have video evidence. In my experience not many officers will go to the lengths of giving a ticket unless they are 100% sure.
now ive been trying to help but i think you should go to court. I think you are going to end up with egg on your face and you will be very silent on the subject after your court date.

DrHolmes Thu 07-Feb-13 21:00:38

Ok thanks Vicar. Yes i do believe him and we will go to court but thanks for your input.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 21:01:14

oh and unless you were there you cannot possibly know for sure what their evidence is - i can tell you now its not going to be a gap between him and the door.....

Egusta Thu 07-Feb-13 21:01:30

Mrs BW

Scenario 1 - no, as I was in the process of trying for my permanent residency visa to stay here (I am a bloody migrant smile ) and was scared to complain just in case. As it happens, a little bit after that The Times and libby Purves were collecting stories of that sort and I sent it in under my actual name, but after I got my visa.

Sceanrio 2 - no risk to property but there was alot of screaming, and i did not go outside, and the next day there was no evidence of anything (blood. vomit etc)

Sceanrio 3 - 'driving dangerously'. something like that. We were pulled over when Dh pulled out from a single road that merged into a dual carriageway. I am a nervous passenger at the best of times (not least because we had our 2 year old in the car) and i was a bit nonplussed.

Flossish Thu 07-Feb-13 21:01:58

MRS BW you put it perfectly.

Tiredtrout Thu 07-Feb-13 21:02:50

Seriously it's too much effort to write a ticket during a shift and I don't know anyone I work with who would go out of their way to write a ticket because they were bored. To be totally honest we generally have better things to do. Obviously though the officers are lying and corrupt and your do is the only honest person that was there.

As for someone's suggestion that we need a more reflective practice now, really with all the investigations into us all the time! There is constant reviewing of all processes that we use in my force and constant retraining.

Fakebook Thu 07-Feb-13 21:08:17

OP, you sound like you've jumped out of a game of Grand Theft Auto.

Let's hope you never need the help of the police in anything.

VivaLeBeaver Thu 07-Feb-13 21:09:08

I guess its quite possible they made a mistake and thought there was no belt on when there was. Its difficult as a court are likely to believe a copper over your bf.

It would have maybe been better policing if the copper had given your bf a warning. I had the same happen to me and was adament I'd worn the seatbelt (I had been), so the copper *let me off" with a warning.

I guess he maybe realised he wasn't 100% sure and saved face while still knowing if I had been lying to him then I'd been warned.

However, it doesn't mean the copper in your case is bent, could be a genuine mistake. But shit for your bf if he has to pay the fine.

Thanks for the lovely title especially with the ongoing trial after the mirder of two of my colleagues

We is all corrupt twats.

H2H

Hiding thread now

Egusta Thu 07-Feb-13 21:20:09

Oh and just to add, I do not want to offend anyone (particularly Vicar who is a poster I admire and respect- especially, with the advice I have seen her give for people who are in alot of pain and needing help such as in DV situations) but I am relating My experiences. Which have been negative.

Murder obvs

SirIronBottom Thu 07-Feb-13 21:23:21

My experiences with the police have been mixed, but mainly positive. DF was a redcap and had a lot of friends in the police service.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 21:24:27

and they are glesss colleagues too. i fear no matter what i do - no matter how well i do my job, there are people who think because of the uniform i wear i am fair game and must be a hateful person.

nothing could be further from the truth.

its heartening; that most on this thread do not think the way of the OP, but

i would love to take those who think we are just overpaid bullies out for one night on my response group....i d love to show you what we deal with. the violence offered every day, the knives, the blades, the fights, the dangers, the abuse, the injustice, the dead bodies, the suicides, the RTCs where people have been thrown from the car, (yes ive attended the results of not wearing a seat belt) the blood, having to tell relatives that their loved ones have died, the dealing with the mentally ill, the self harmers, the drunks, the homeless, those that just need a lift, the rapes, the child abuse, the animal abuse, the time wasters, those that phone us because they had their curly wurly taken....(i kid you not) and i would love to see how you would feel about the job after just seeing one shift on a response group. The reality is so different to what you imagine. I think many would be shocked. i know i was.

Smudging Thu 07-Feb-13 21:33:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Softlysoftly Thu 07-Feb-13 21:33:06

Experience 1: I was indecently assaulted by my boss in a student job. Police were caring, gentle and followed through to conviction.

Experience 2: irate (druggie) customer attempts to kill terrified 65 year old fil, runs before police get there. Is tracked down and has his door booted in for him and taken in.

Both of those men said they were innocent victims of the corrupt scum.

Don't wholesale slate the force that keeps you safe unless you are damn sure if you are raped, beaten or burgled 999 won't bethe number you call.

Just saying.

Smudging Thu 07-Feb-13 21:37:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ComposHat Thu 07-Feb-13 21:38:01

Whilst the death of those two officers in Manchester is awful, it shouldn't preclude discussion of the Police's competence and honesty.

Nobody would disagree that Policing is a difficult job and it is silly to suggest they are all corrupt twats, it is equally silly to suggest they are all angels.

A number of posters have been on the receiving end of poor Policing from rude/ignorant/lazy/bullying Police Officers. In the last few years we have had corrupt Police getting sent to jail for taking back handers from tabloid jornalists, reports of Police abusing steroids, the Ian Tomlinson manslaughter trial and the revelation that South Yorkshire Police systematically lied in the aftermath of Hilsborough, over zealous use of kettling etc. etc.

In some respects some officers are utterly failing in their duty and we should hold them and their superiors to account

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 21:38:56

i work with 2 people i dont like or respect. but i work with a hell of a lot more that i do.

that said ive never seen anything "corrupt"

slhilly Thu 07-Feb-13 21:40:22

Tiredtrout Thu 07-Feb-13 21:02:50
"As for someone's suggestion that we need a more reflective practice now, really with all the investigations into us all the time! There is constant reviewing of all processes that we use in my force and constant retraining."
Yes, really. Because reflective practice means reflecting on your own practice, and how you could have done things better. It's an individual obligation. And external investigations and reviews are not a substitute.
Health professionals, airline pilots etc are subject to investigations and extensive oversight, and they reflect on their practice despite this.

slhilly Thu 07-Feb-13 21:49:24

Softlysoftly, this: "Don't wholesale slate the force that keeps you safe unless you are damn sure if you are raped, beaten or burgled 999 won't bethe number you call." is quite a statement on MN. There are many many women who have posted on these boards about police incompetence or worse when they have reported rape.

I would like to be able to rely on the police if something awful happens to me or my loved ones; we all would. I am simply not confident that I can. My confidence has been shaken by the testimonies of individuals I have read and heard, the many reports that have been written about systemic failings (e.g. Sapphire), corruption (e.g., NoTW) and both (e.g. Hillsborough); the news reports of outrageous misbehaviour (e.g., what is looking increasingly likely to have happened in Plebgate); and clear and terrible quantitative evidence of failure in the case of crimes such as rape.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 21:49:25

well, i am thinking of leaving, i do find the culture hard going, i find the shifts hard going, the lack of sleep hard going, the danger hard going, the general idiocy of what we deal with hard going and the lack of anyone giving a shit hard going.

i have never seen anything corrupt though. im just too gentle for the flak i get doing the job and i feel in constant danger - no back up at dangerous jobs as numbers are so stretched. it is putting us at risk - no doubt about it.

a very wise training school bobby told me the public get the police they deserve - so think about that when the gvt are slashing starting pay to 19k.....you can get more than that in retail or an office, and that is why i am looking at other jobs - i could work normal hours in a safe environment for the same money.

so in future yes - i would ask why anyone would do this job. I do it well i think - i do it honestly and to the best of my ability - and its landed me with some mental health problems and a hiatus hernia. worth it?

ComposHat Thu 07-Feb-13 21:53:02

a very wise training school bobby told me the public get the police they deserve - so think about that when the gvt are slashing starting pay to 19k

You say wise, I say complacent and blame shifting training school bobby.

lovelyredwine Thu 07-Feb-13 21:57:04

There are a lot of stories about 'the police' on this thread, both bad and good. I could add my own stories into the mix, but I don't see the point.

OP- saying that you, 'hate the police' is just bizarre, really bizarre to me. Do you think it's acceptable when people say they hate black people, Muslims, foreigners etc? I'll bet you don't, but they are all people you can group together because of one common factor as you have done with 'the police'.

'The police' covers a massive range of people- black people, Muslims, foreigners, women, men, bisexuals, straight people, gay people, university educated people, ex- soldiers, young people, tall people..... The list goes on and on and you can make most scenarios and most stereotypes fit because there are tens of thousands of police officers in this country. Police officers are all individuals they just happen to wear the same uniform.

Ilovefluffysheep Thu 07-Feb-13 21:59:20

Vicar, sometimes you just can't reason with people, but I admire your tenacity! I absolutely hate being tarred with the same brush as the few ignorant/bullies/lying officers that there are. Because we all know there are, and its not like any of us officers on the thread have denied it. It's not a perfect world and we're not a perfect police force.

However, some people just can't seem to accept we're not all like that. I know that lots of people have had a bad experience with the police - however, when delve into it it's not even officers. For example, the person who said they phoned in and were told there was no units available. Yes that's crap. But that's not a police officer, that's a civilian controller/dispatcher telling you that. And it's probably down to the fact that the very few officers on duty are already deployed to something else - maybe a rape, a domestic, a burglary? Or maybe a hoax call that they don't know is a hoax til they get there?

I said it before and will say it again - there is no benefit to an officer making up something like that. It's not like they get the fine money, and its a shed load of extra work. It would just be totally pointless.

Egusta Thu 07-Feb-13 21:59:58

vicar I do think the slashing of police starting pay is an utter idiocy. No arguments there. And I have followed some of your story and can completely understand why you wish to leave. And I think it must be demoralising in the extreme to have to work in that culture as it now is. I do not (mind you) agree with the concept that the public get the police they deserve. we get the police that are foisted upon us. The 'public' are mostly law abiding people who want to live peacefully and they want to know that the state will back them up in that. I have been on Mn for about 6 years now (under various incarnations) and I have followed your story and know that you are genuine and honest and know also that you have suffered greatly. So i do hope that the future brings you happiness and joy. smile

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:01:00

compo what kind of person do you think will do this job for 19k a year? those on a power trip?
or those who have a genuine desire to make a difference to people?

i reckon it will be those who want the power and arent bothered about the money.
i am coming to the conclusion that no matter what it pays its not worth it. it had made me very ill.

cumfy Thu 07-Feb-13 22:01:30

vicar I said I would't be screaming!

grin These police are such competent witnesses aren't they.hmm

Egusta Thu 07-Feb-13 22:05:09

ILove I phoned in to say I was a woman walking my dog and was being shot at. And I was. To be honest, I really did expect a better response.

(I did not know it was an air rifle.... and even now am not sure. I called DH at work when I got home and he said it was 'probably an air rifle'). But if you call the emergency number, and ask for the police, are you going to understand the difference between the police and a civilian dispatcher? I certainly did not.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:08:53

actually i agree - its not the public that get what they deserve - but the government do. they will get what they are willing to pay for and for me the cost mentally has been just a tad too high.

threads like this do sort of seal my feelings on it because no matter how well i do my job, people still hate us. i find that very hard to swallow. i am a gentle, quiet, calm non judgemental person who is happy to treat everyone with dignity and compassion no matter what, be that offenders or victims. many, many of my colleagues are exactly the same. it takes all sorts in this job. out of everyone i have ever met and worked with i have only ever come across 2 officers that i dont particularly respect. that would suggest the majority are decent people, doing a difficult job, under ever increasingly difficult circumstances.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:11:01

yes cumfy of course because what i say on here is held up to scrutiny in court.....

you are an example of the mentality im up against.

NannyPlumIsMyMum Thu 07-Feb-13 22:17:15

Yabvu. Can't be arsed to say any more than that because you are clearly very ignorant .

NannyPlumIsMyMum Thu 07-Feb-13 22:18:31

Hello Vic smile

ComposHat Thu 07-Feb-13 22:19:30

Vicar

My point wasn't the pay and I feel that public sector pay cuts are to be vigorously resisted.

The idea I took exception to is that 'we get the police we deserve.' I think it is complacant nonsense and smacks of victim blaming. The families at Hillesborough 'deserved' to have their dead relatives names bismirched for the best part of 20 years, that Stephen Lawrence's family 'deserved' to have his investigation sat upon and one of his killers protected by an officer in the pay of the killer's father, that Ian Tomlinson 'deserved' to be clubbed to death by a violent thug in a uniform. It sounds like an excuse for the Police to avoid putting their own houses in order and to blame the people that their officers failed to protect.

I realise that this isn't the fault of the majority of hard working rank and file officers and I feel sorry that you've felt got at on this thread. I feel someone who obviosuly has the best interest of the public at heart feels that she is being forced out.

10storeylovesong Thu 07-Feb-13 22:24:34

vicar I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Personally, I love my job and can't imagine doing anything else. But yes, when I get sent single handed to a violent domestic, or a man with a knife in the street, or a mass pub brawl - or even being involved in the riots with my family sat at home watching it unravel on the news and seeing me getting out of a van with paving slabs being launched at my head - it makes me stop and think sometimes. I carry on because when I do get a good result - catching a burglar, helping a vulnerable person who's being taken advantage of, finally persuading a repeat victim of domestic violence to leave their abuser - it makes it all worthwhile. I certainly don't put up with any of the other shit so I can hand out fines for seatbelts.

And neither do my colleagues...

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:26:48

i said compo that actually on reflection i didnt think that - i think the government get the police they deserve - the public dont have much say do they really....and im still a member of the public. Should i need assistance from the police i would expect it.

i always feel got at on these threads because i want to scream from the rooftops that i am not corrupt, i am hardworking, honest, and i really really really care about people and what happens to them.

but its not enough for some and i think the only way to deal with attitudes towards us is probably to develop a really hard nose - which ill never do.
it actually hurts. i do take it personally because i know what i do for people and its never going to be good enough for some.

its not just on here - its in real life.

FiercePanda Thu 07-Feb-13 22:26:59

YABVU. Have a biscuit.

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 22:31:06

Vicar - no, you're wrong - my friend was told she didn't have to attend...her evidence was given via a statement of some kind. The case did happen, and her exbf got off pretty much scott-free. Why is it so hard for you to believe she was treated poorly? I'm not accusing YOU of anything.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:32:24

oh and <waves> to nannyplum and thanks 10storey.

im used to these attitudes now - doesnt make it any easier to live with but i am getting used to it - i need to learn to stop argueing over it though!

landofsoapandglory Thu 07-Feb-13 22:33:25

I have had terrible experiences of the police in recent years. My family and I were victims of anti social behaviour for approx 4 years, we were told to close our curtains and ignore it. Then it would be "next time we'll do X, Y,& Z" but next time never came. The police were shit, they let us down terribly.

I know not all police are bad, but it is wrong to pretend all police are good!

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:34:54

she would have given video evidence then?

but normally you may still need to attend to give further clarification - it can be done via video link or behind a screen so as not to have to face your attacker.

you say the case went to court - so why is that so hard for you to understand then that the court let him off - not the police??

the police shovel up the evidence and send it to court - the police are not judge and jury.

its this type of misinformation that just gets perpetuated time and time again.

NannyPlumIsMyMum Thu 07-Feb-13 22:35:18

My DH has literally cooked for in the station and supplied nappies to single mothers who have walked into the station with not a penny.

He has provided endless support to victims of domestic abuse - helping them to pack up their lifes belongings after spending hours convincing them to go to a refuge.

He has been petrol bombed in his station whilst working during the riots trying to keep others safe.

He has tirelessly run after paedophiles, robbers and gangsters bloody jumping over fences and injuring himself in the process to make sure they are arrested.

Most weekends he comes home late from night shifts after investigating a rape / stabbing / murder and just lately has twice managed to talk somebody's sons from jumping off high buildings.

I suppose he deserves to be hatedsad.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:36:06

ah fuck it.

im hiding the thread now. its just not worth it! im off work with anxiety and depression - i dont need it here!

evilkitten Thu 07-Feb-13 22:36:58

I am wonderfully middle class, and should be thoroughly supportive of the police. However, every interaction with them that I have had has left me feeling slightly jaded.

I have three points on my licence for using a mobile phone while driving. Apparently the officer saw a light shining against my face, and this was incontrovertible proof I was guilty. The fact that I don't own a mobile phone - or have one in my possession - wasn't seen as a defence to this. Given a choice between believing a 'mop' or a police officer, a magistrate is likely to favour the police, so it didn't seem worth taking it to court. I'm still fucked off about it.

The other incident was when I woke up at about 3am to find my front garden full of police officers. I opened the window and asked what the hell they were doing standing amongst my roses, and they told me that I'd phoned the police. I told them I hadn't, and asked them to leave. The front door was kicked in, and six or so coppers let themselves in. I'm still not quite sure what happened after that, but there were a number of words exchanged between me and a police officer holding a torch in my face. Eventually they left, leaving me with a broken door. I was told to raise it with their inspector the following morning. On ringing, they denied having any police officers anywhere near my house, making any sort of entry, or of breaking the door. Neither was my solicitor capable of making any headway, and I ended up shelling out £300 for a replacement door.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not a criminal, and have no record beyond the 3 points detailed above. I have no idea what the police stood to gain from either of the incidents above, but I know they happened.

There have been a number of people posting on the thread identifying themselves as police officers, and saying that the job is hard, and we should accept all of this. I'm sure the job is hard, but it's one that you're trained for, and that pays well. Police officers have a lot of powers, and I think the public are entitled to expect that that power is used wisely, and never abused.

The argument that the police are overstretched and busy would hold more weight if they didn't spend so much time pissing about with rude text messages between teenagers, and attending diversity courses. Tell me - if so much crime happens on Fri/Sat nights, why is the car park of my local police station empty then? It looks like the majority of police officers keep office hours.

As for the comment that 'the public get the police they deserve', I'd refer you to Robert Peel's principles of modern policing. Remember that the police are the public, and the public are the police, with the police only being paid to carry out the responsibilities of all the public. In fact, read all of the principles, and then ask yourself whether your police force is acting in line with them. My suspicion is that it is not.

evilkitten.

NannyPlumIsMyMum Thu 07-Feb-13 22:38:33

Land of - thats nothing to do with the police - that's down to the Crown Prosecution Service .

ComposHat Thu 07-Feb-13 22:39:48

vicar I have some idea of the way you feel, I used to work for social services and it was very much a thankless task. You were either the bbusybody kiddy snatchers out to take children away and when a case of abuse or neglect was uncovered a greek chorus of 'where were social services?' would spring up. You literalliy couldn't win. It did for me in the end and I went back to University to do a PhD in history.

I think the problem is that the public's perception of the Police is shaped by the officer or Social worker they have dealt with and tend to extrapolate that to be indicative of the organisation as a whole 'the Police are corrupt' or 'Social Services don't care' rather than PC 4461 is a bullying wanker or Social Worker X is lazy and negligent.

landofsoapandglory Thu 07-Feb-13 22:46:02

No Nanny it was the Police, they never ever presented it to the CPS. The PC's would come to the house and talk to us and the sergant would decide what to do next.

They were dreadful, they made us feel like we were the ones in the wrong. They really, really let us down.

I am sorry of that upsets those you who are in the police or who have DP's in the Police, but that is my experience of them in recent years.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:49:30

evil - if you dont own a mobile then you should have gone to court - it would have been easy enough to prove. you should never had accepted it - that is an injustice and one that would annoy me.

the rest i cant be arsed to respond to. see my earlier comments and all that.

i am hiding this now. its pissing me right off.

marriedinwhite Thu 07-Feb-13 22:49:36

Experiences total opposite of evilkitten's. Have found police, helpful, charming, totally supportive. They were great when my handbag was stolen years and years ago (and caught the thief and convicted him), great when my car was vandalised, great when we were burgled, great when fil dropped dead unexpectedly, great when ds disappeared off the radar, and great when I had a car accident last year - they were even incredibly kind to the elderly gentleman who caused a lot of damage to street furniture and my car and got his relatives to the scene until the ambulance came (we weren't sure what was wrong but he seemed very ill) all over a span of about 30 years actually.

nannyof3 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:49:41

I hope u havent got children!!!

Children should grow up knowing they can trust the police and they will help them !!!!!!!

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 22:50:31

land - did you actually read any of what i put?? no?

the case went to court.
as soon as that happens the police have no say anymore. the magistrate makes the decision based on the evidence.

DeepRedBetty Thu 07-Feb-13 22:54:42

Think I might hide thread too. sad

Lots of fine examples of bigots on this thread. Mostly of the 'All coppers is filth' variety. Some coppers is filth. And so are some MN-etters. Just sayin'.

DeepRedBetty Thu 07-Feb-13 22:55:57

Vicar I'll press Hide Thread if you do too. I don't think either of our blood pressures can stand much more of this.

amillionyears Thu 07-Feb-13 22:56:48

Vicar, fwiw, please dont think you have to defend all police.
Nobody should speak for anyone else, or feel they have to defend them.

There is a person who lives locally to me, who frequently goes round saying "I speak for everyone when I say......"
No, he absolutely does not.

A person is responsible for themselves. Not what someone else does or does not get up to.

marriedinwhite Thu 07-Feb-13 22:58:26

And when I had the accident they duck taped my bonnet and side panels of the car back together so it was driveable and gave me a police escort to drive home in case it came undone. They did it to save me the trouble of waiting for a breakdown truck and getting home on public transport although they did say someone could wait with me and would drive me home - but it would be quicker to tape and escort - I don't think they contemplated leaving me to it on my own and I was absolutely fine. They also had to breathalyse me as a matter of routine and were incredibly sensitive about it. (That was terrifying actually - I had had two glasses the night before and have never been so worried in my life - there was not a trace of alcohol though).

They also called the next day to make sure I was OK.

Vicar
I only popped back to check on you tbh
My advice would be to hide the thread and step away

Those who supportive police rarely contribute to these threads whereas those who have had poor experiences will.

You can't change the world

After 19 years I have realised that I do my job to the best of my ability, support friends and colleagues going through bad times but that's it. I can't invest emotional energy in trying to change opinions on the Internet.

Take care of you x

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:02:32

deepred youre on.

after 3....

3
2
1

byeeeeee!!!

niceguy2 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:02:35

'the public get the police they deserve',

The point behind that phrase is that as you point out, the police are the public. So if you have a load of idiots in the general public then you will end up with a load of idiots in the police. And let me say we have a LOT of idiots in our public!

That said from my dealings with the police I'd have to say that on balance we have a very very good police force and recruitment seems to weed out most of the idiots.

For those moaning about our 'corrupt' police, you haven't seen anyfuckingthing.

Next week I will be returning to a country on business where typically if shit happens, the last people you want to see are the police. The only time I've seen them 'enforce' the law was stopping motorists speeding on the motorway. They just randomly pulled cars over and gave them on the spot bribes fines. I'd have been less cynical if it wasn't a bank holiday weekend and they probably needed extra spending cash. Another time I had to 'tip' the law officer to be allowed into the airport. Failure to comply would mean a beating, followed by severe torture and an anal cavity search with a truncheon. And I'm not even exaggerating.

Another country I went to last year, they routinely get young girls to chat up tourists in a bar. Then when they leave, they are arrested for soliciting a minor. You then get to spend a few days/weeks in their cells until you wisely choose to make a generous donation to their (cough) station rebuilding fund.

I'd take our coppers any day of the week.

landofsoapandglory Thu 07-Feb-13 23:02:59

Vicar it's you who needs to read, not me! Our case never went to court. The police would tell us that they would warn the people doing it, and next time they would escalate it etc, but they never did. They just said the same thing over and over again, until one night they PC said he'd get the sergant to take it to the next level.

The next day the PC came back and said the sergant said to warn them again, so I phoned and asked why. He said because a warning was fine for the first offence, it had been going on for four years and he said he didn't know that because no one had made him aware! So you see, they were shit and they did let us down!

I don't doubt you are very good at your job, but don't pretend that everyone in the police is, because they are not!

amillionyears Thu 07-Feb-13 23:03:12

My DH and I run a business.
There is no way that I would sit here tonight and defend all business owners.
Wouldnt dream of it.

AmIthatWintry Thu 07-Feb-13 23:04:02

I'm hiding this thread too.

pathetic idiots spouting cliches "corrupt filth" etc. It is laughably pathetic

OP that needs to step back from running her bf's life - fuck it, no wonder he's scared to tell her he didn't have his seatbelt on

I hope the police are tied up with something more important if ever these posters needed to ask for their help

Twanks

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 23:04:17

Yes Vicar - the police wrote our statements how they wanted to write them, not how we spoke them. I wrote about this further back.

The case went to court, neither my friend or I (a witness) had to attend (I told my friend this was a bad idea as I thought things had been underhand so far).

We live rurally, it was a county court and a solicitor (whom she never got to meet) dealt with it for her. The nearest women's aid said it was the most sadistic and sustained beating they'd seen in many years (over 2 hours of beating, bullying, even a threat of murder whilst she was locked in the house with him)...doors were smashed in, she was stripped naked etc etc... She was destroyed by it and is still suffering emotionally, mentally and physically now, years on.

So, if the police (the abuser's friends remember) were there to help and guide her, why do you think he got off? One of the local police officers who know him gave a statement to say he was of good character (they all know he's a bully and a menace and has been involved in and provoked many fights, so even if these are not on record, surely an honest police officer couldn't stand up and say he was of good character?).

This is not a reflection on the force as a whole, but it is proof it does happen. The police didn't let the abuser off, but they did everything in their power to help him. They even advised him to put himself on a voluntary pub watch ban for 6 months because they knew it would look good in court (as he was under the influence when the beating occurred).

Anyway, I have no doubt you are a dedicated member of the force, and I wish there were a few more of you locally to us. I'm sorry this ever happened - especially for my friend, as her trust in the police is even lower than mine, and for good reason after her ordeal.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:07:55

sorry land i got you muddled with another poster....apologies.

frustratedworkingmum Thu 07-Feb-13 23:07:59

What a sad sad thread to read - no wonder there are so many kids with terrible attitudes towards authority and law and order if this is the attitude they get from their parents.

I daresay the police aren't perfect, you name me a profession that is?

DIddled Thu 07-Feb-13 23:08:52

I have the misfortune to be married to one of the afore mentioned 'corrupt filth'.

His recent offences include happening across a violent aggravated burglary whilst walking the dog (off duty) and without thought for his own safety , detaining the offender and ensuring the elderly householder was ok. Nearly lost the bloody dog tho'!

Also running outside in bare feet when a neighbour across the road was accosted on her doorstep at knifepoint for her car keys, then jumping in the car to try and find the bloke who held a knife to a mum with two toddlers on her own property.

He'd be mortified if he knew I had shared this- he is the most modest man I know!! He is also not one of those types who feel the need to make sure everyone knows what he does.

I'm proud of him anyway smile

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:13:45

seen - i have explained that once it goes to court it is totally out of the hands of the police.

land i got you muddled with seen which is a sign i
A) need to go to bed
B) do need to hide this thread!

gless you are right. im getting too involved and there is no way im going to change opinions on a forum!
those that have had a perceived bad experience will hang on to that - and tell everyone about it. thats human nature - and it shows we probably dont explaint things well enough when they do go tits up....especially with domestics.

i had a domestic which got statute barred and i worked my arse off to get a result for the victim only to find out it couldnt go to court because of the length of time it took to get to my desk then gather the evidence.

shit service? yep.
my fault? no. i did my best. i gave it my all. i was as pissed off as the victim. it still bothers me now.

ThatVikRinA22 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:15:28

niceguy - i think thats exactly what he meant.
thank you.

landofsoapandglory Thu 07-Feb-13 23:19:08

It's okay Vicarsmile hope you sleep well!

Seenenoughtoknow Thu 07-Feb-13 23:19:12

Vicar - and I have said more than once that the police INFLUENCED the case in the favour of the abuser. That's why we lost.

TheCraicDealer Thu 07-Feb-13 23:19:48

But don't they sort of write them in a more refined, factual manner anyway? My partner is in the RMP and they don't take statements verbatim, they read quite oddly really.

It's now getting to the point that he is going to have to think about what he's going to do should he leave the army. One thing I don't want him to go into is policing, partly because of posters like Vicar who really do work their socks off and are still branded by a large proportion of the public as "scum". Yeah, because he was scum, wasn't he? And this fella here too. Jeez, you really do know frig all.

niceguy2 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:22:23

I think you are flogging the proverbial dead horse vicar. I'd stop whilst you are still sane.

Most reasonable people will realise that the police are human. There will be good coppers and some piss poor ones. That's life.

I went to the doctor's yesterday and the dr I saw didn't know which drug to prescribe for my fairly common condition. I had to tell her. Do I now start a MN post declaring all doctor's are idiots?

The woman cashier at Iceland today was incredibly slow at scanning. Which are the morons? Everybody at Iceland or all women?

Am I sounding a bit unreasonable????

Lilithmoon Thu 07-Feb-13 23:24:03

It almost goes without saying that in such a huge workforce you will have some problems; however I am certain the good outweighs the bad. I have only ever had positive experiences with the police; and am very thankful to them.

niceguy2 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:26:09

Oh and lastly before I go to bed. My yardstick for whether or not we have a good police force is quite simple.

If I was getting mugged and the police show up do I think:

a) Thank god!
b) Shit! run!

In the UK it's undoubtedly a)

In far too many other countries it's b)

amillionyears Thu 07-Feb-13 23:34:50

Glad vicar appears to have gone to bed.

I think you need to put yourself and your health before the police, not the other way round.

cumfy Fri 08-Feb-13 00:03:09

Well it's an interesting split between those who have had good and poor experiences with the police.

There are far, far, too many poor experiences being detailled here.

I also think it is unfortunate that those who have had good experiences, drag out the "there's always one bad apple though isn't there ?" argument.

SarahBumBarer Fri 08-Feb-13 00:13:27

My experiences of the police:

Police attended burglary at home of my then 13 year old self in Northumberland and told my parents that we have a better chance of catching the burglar than they do.

Police car tailgates 18 year old me along a deserted country road in Norfolk and in fear I spead up to get back to the built up area then he pulls me over for speeding.

A friend whose father is a police officer who admits after her parents separate that her dad regularly hit her mother and police had been called at least twice (to her knowledge) to the house. Mother had on at least one of those occasions been pressured to let the matter drop quietly.

Coming out of train station in Derby, DH and I get caught up in horrendous post football match traffic. Cars entering yellow boxes and all sorts. Two Police officers chatting and doing nothing. I ask them out of the window if they should not be doing something to try and direct the traffic flow better. One tells me to shut up and move on or he will pull us over and inspect our car and he "will find something".

A friend of mine joins Leicestershire police (around the time of a lovely BBC documentary showing Leicestershire police officers behaving quite badly although lazily rather than corruptly). During a conversation some 18 or so months later she talks about some kid being arrested and being handled a bit roughly and falling over. I was horrified but according to her it is ok because he was being arrested and people have always "done something" if they are being arrested. We are no longer friends.

We get burgled, my car keys and hence my car are taken. Police are actually initially very attentive because it is part of a widespread luxury car theft ring (only it was my DH's car they were after and they lucked out with my banger). Shortly thereafter my car was spotted by the police who gave chase resulting in my car being abandoned. £150 impound fee later I got it back after a £40 taxi trip since it was recovered to the most inconvenient location possible. Police had told me that when it was found I would be given a choice of where it would be taken probably a location about 2 miles south of me would be best. Perhaps they just thought I fancied a trip to the lovely industrial estates of north Nottinghamshire instead. No explanation ever provided as to why the procedures that I had told would be followed was not.

My dad was beaten up by his partners son after a non-violent argument with his partner (about son's drinking). Police attended and removed my dad from his own home on the grounds of preventing a breach of the peace. Police later advised that they did this because it was easier to remove him (being one person) than the two others (partner and son). Dad spent night humiliated and distressed in police cell.

My DH's mother got a part time job in her 50's as a civilian with a police force. She stuck it out for just over a year before she quit with no job to go to because of the sexist, bullying, ageist, patronising attitude of a "significant minority" of the police she worked for/with.

Nothing really major but enough to have painted a long-term sustained impression of a police force...not to be proud of.

Then take the stuff, the serious stuff you read in the press.

OhBotheration Fri 08-Feb-13 00:14:34

I haven't read the whole thread, it's all a bit too depressing but like the other officers on here, it's all stuff I have heard before.

But I will say this.

I don't care what you think of me or my uniform. I will still turn up and deal with your burglary/assault/theft/rape. If yesterday, I arrested you and tomorrow, you are the victim, then that's what you are and I will still sit with you and take your statement and reassure as best I can.

That's my job.

I know there is corruption. I have confronted it when I have seen it. Most of us care more than we would admit and most have joined out of a genuine desire to help. Most people have a shitty experience to report, even I do.

There's 150,000 of us and seven million of you. Give us a break.

OhBotheration Fri 08-Feb-13 00:18:40

Btw, Vicar, I am really sad to hear you are off work at the moment. I hope you are okay.

And my post doesn't read very well now I've looked at it. I'm going to bed. Tomorrow is a new day.

sashh Fri 08-Feb-13 04:54:04

Fight it. Go to court and state your case (well your BF's actually needs to do it).

I did this with a parking fine, the magistrate suggested the police solicitor and I had a chat, we did, they offered no evidence and it was dropped.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Fri 08-Feb-13 07:50:13

Vicar, sometimes you just can't reason with people, but I admire your tenacity! I absolutely hate being tarred with the same brush as the few ignorant/bullies/lying officers that there are. Because we all know there are, and its not like any of us officers on the thread have denied it. It's not a perfect world and we're not a perfect police force.

Whilst I agree that it is only some officers who are ignorant/lying/bullies, one of the reason that decent officers get tarred with the same brush is their complicity in that behaviour, by turning a blind eye to it. You know these officers are lying/bullies/ignorant but how many times have you made a stand and reported their behaviour? How many times have you censored your witness statement to exclude the lying/bullying behaviour of your colleague?

Officers turn a blind eye to the inappropriate and often criminal behaviour of their colleagues, as there is a 'don't grass' and stick together mentality, whatever happens, in the police service.
Until the decent officers stop condoning the behaviour by their failure to report it, you will find yourselves tarred with the same brush.

My best friend is a police officer and I believe she is a good one. She is also a decent, honest, caring, thoughtful person. That didn't stop her saying she hadn't witnessed a colleague assault someone he had detained by smashing his face into the ground. She knew the officer was a bully and had assaulted someone but she turned a blind eye and excluded it from her statement and lied when the complaint was investigated. She was a probationer at the time. Her other colleagues who were also present and did exactly the same as her were not, they were experienced officers.

Officers write their statements together so that the account of events is identical, word for word, rather than being your own personal recollection of the incident. You wouldn't allow civilian witnesses to do that yet it is considered acceptable for officers to do that. Is it any wonder the public think officers collude with each other.

Dreaming- if officers do their statements together it has declared in court and that is taken account of.

The police conduct regulations have been changed so that of you don't report something which is an offence ( and please bear In mind that officers have a higher level of behaviour to adhere to in their personal life) then YOU are as culpable as the offending officer.

The culture of covering for the few bad apples will go. The number of women in the police has also increased over the last 19 years to nearly a third. I think this makes a difference too. Women deal with aggressive offenders differently and try and diffuse rather than dominate.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Fri 08-Feb-13 09:14:52

I have rarely seen it declared in court that officers have written their statements together.

Irrespective of this, in my view officers should NEVER be writing their statements together (even though I understand that it is permitted.) Why on earth would anyone think this is acceptable. How can it be considered their own independent account of events when they have written it together; their statements become the merging of two accounts and it smacks of collusion, particularly when the evidence of the officers is in relation to something which is likely to be contentious.

Hopefully these new conduct regulations will mean that 'good' officers stop covering up for the lying/bullies - I think that once they stop doing so, the lying/bullies will be weeded out and the public perception of the police will improve significantly. It has gone on for far too long. Officers have to stop saying 'there are a few bad apples' as if this can't be helped, and make a stand against them. Until they do that, my sympathy for them being tarred with the same brush, is somewhat limited.

I don't really understand your comment about officers having a higher level of behaviour to adhere to in their personal life, in the context of them reporting colleagues offending/dishonest etc.

The number of women in the police has also increased over the last 19 years to nearly a third. I think this makes a difference too. Women deal with aggressive offenders differently and try and diffuse rather than dominate.

^^ This I completely agree with.

Pigsmummy Fri 08-Feb-13 10:28:13

Dispute it. If they issue a ticket they need evidence so there should be an image either on the cars equipment or an actual camera. At any point did your BF agree that he wasn't wearing SB? Without any of the above thru wouldn't issue a fixed penalty normally so you have a good case. Represent yourselves in court and have a recording of the "no seatbelt" alarm noise.

10storeylovesong Fri 08-Feb-13 11:37:17

pigsmummy That's nonsense. They don't need any kind of visual evidence from a camera - although obviously it helps strengthen the case. And the offender does not need to admit it either - I had a girl swear that she had not used her mobile phone when I had watched her using it. Funnily enough she appealed it and went to court - she looked a little foolish when her phone records showed she had sent a text at the time I had seen her. And as someone else has already said, the seatbelt noise stops after a set time.

And whoever said that the car park is empty near them on a Friday and Saturday night - I agree. That's because the front line police has been dramaticaly reduced - regardless of what the newspapers and government like to report - and most officers will work from their divisional headquarters rather than the smaller stations which now tend to house the support staff. This is wrong on so many levels - firstly for the public who have to wait longer for someone to attend (if at all on a weekend night as most officers are usually tied up for their entire shift), and secondly for officer safety (imagine going to a mass brawl on your own knowing that your nearest back up is caught up at a job at least 20 minutes away by blue light run). It's bad news for everyone but this is not the officers fault - and believe me we have tried to fight it through the federation with no luck. We're probably less happy about it than you are.

amillionyears Fri 08-Feb-13 12:52:02

Thats what I have been wondering 10storeylovesong.
The police can issue a ticket with no visual evidence to back it up?

littleladyindoors Fri 08-Feb-13 14:10:08

Late Last Year:
Me: DH why are you late off?
DH: I got assaulted, had to do the paperwork.
This is at least every 6 months because my husband wears the uniform.

Yeah, very corrupt. Now there are some bloody idiots in the force, Ive met a few, and man they dont make you feel safe, but thank God for the officers like my husband, who love their job, and do it because they want to help people.
I'll never forget the night when he came home having saved a man who got stabbed near KFC (we take our chicken seriously round here) and had to watch him in the operating theatre in case he died and then he would have had to go tell the family.
I really wish that people would look at what the police actually do, rather than presuming things, like that the police obviously send people down, or not, when that is the CPS or courts. They used to, but they dont anymore, they dont really have any powers like that. How much do you think it annoys the officers when they have worked hard to get their case together, evidence etc for the CPS to say no, no case there.
Bankers, Police Officers, Journalists, they are all the same, and in each others pockets too apparently. I am living in waaay too small a house for that to be true!!!

ILoveTIFFANY Fri 08-Feb-13 14:17:46

Ex police officer here.... I was never anything but fair and helpful

Thanks for the hatred tho

Seenenoughtoknow Fri 08-Feb-13 15:30:54

dreamingofthemaldives - an excellent point very well put. There are definitely many many more good officers than bad, but as long as the good are protecting the bad, the only person who loses out is Joe Public...who is in no position to argue whilst his face is being smashed on the floor, and is not believed when he complains about it because of the collusion of the good officers with the bad. Although, if you're covering for someone who has done wrong, doesn't that put you in the bracket of 'bad' cop anyway?

If I was working with someone who lied or stole or who broke the rules at work, I wouldn't hesitate to make it known to a superior...I would feel it was my duty. The fact that some 'law enforcement officers' DON'T do that, is very worrying for the rest of us.

bassetfeet Fri 08-Feb-13 17:08:57

Like a fair amount of folk here we have been on receiving end of the law [actually booked for parking wrong way round outside our door years ago ! ] and speeding on dual carriage way etc.
Similarly when my son was a teenager and robbed in city centre /neighbour terrorised by local yob the police were professional,kind and worked hard to resolve the issues .
I do not know of any work that involves such a shift in mindset on ONE shift that takes you from a violent altercation / burglary/ domestic violence ....oh and the burning car on the road with family and dog inside .........to having to do a death informed to a distraught parent . This is the life of a first response officer .
Yup there are bad officers no doubt as in walks of life . But when I get narked by the road police I take into account the horror they deal with and understand the law .
Definately challenge if you are innocent of course .but please do not say "I hate the Police" .

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 17:25:40

can i just reiterate that i have not personally seen any dubious or corrupt behaviour among my colleagues - i know of one incident on another duty group where an officer used unnecessary force and was held to account for it - rightly so imo. I would not stand by and say nothing if i saw something that was wrong. This assumption that there are lots of individuals who act improperly but the rest of us stand by doing nothing is just not true. And i agree that there are not enough women in the force - that said there is a small contingent of officers (i work with one) who believe that women should not be in the police.

i acknowledge that some of the posters on this thread say they have come across officers who have treated someone they know of unfairly - but that is the persons perception - often a victim has unrealistic expectations of what can be achieved but feel badly done to, so its always the polices fault, its always the police that let them down - even though it could be that the officer is acting properly but is restricted as to what they can do do to lack of evidence or because of protocols or procedure etc.

its a very very difficult job and one that i, and most of my colleagues do to the best of their ability. We dont always get the results we want or that our victims want, but i try very hard. As basset said the diversity of jobs is huge - one moment comforting a victim or delivering a death warning, the next dealing with violence, or drunks fighting, the next attending RTCs where you may need to administer first aid or close a road while getting all the details for the paperwork....i realise some of the time what we do is unpopular because, my DH has had speeding points - its a pita - but its the law and if you get caught breaking it you have to take responsibility.

amillionyears Fri 08-Feb-13 17:34:20

Vicar, I dont think it can be said that "it is the persons perception". It can sometimes be the truth.

fwiw, I know a retired policeman, who, for several years afterwards, used to go round still pretending he was a real cop.
My DH and I ended up reporting him. Dont know what happened to him.

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 18:44:06

what im trying to say is that sometimes a persons dissatisfaction is not always down to the police - it can be the CPS, or circumstances, or lack of evidence that dictates what can, or cannot be done.

fwiw - the police service is a very different thing to what it was years ago - yes in the 70s and early 80s, pre pace, i have no doubt that dubious things happened - ive heard about them.

the police themselves are more likely now to be at the wrong end of a spurious accusation than the other way around - and the culture is very different -. Any sniff of misconduct and the job will hang you out to dry first - ask questions later.

I'm 43 and have never had an 'experience' with the police? What are you doing to have 'experiences' with them?

Its unpleasant and nasty to call the police 'filth', they are doing a job and it makes you sound immature.

Like any job, they will have good and bad, so not all the police are the same.

I'd be interested to know who you'd call if your house was broken into or you were assaulted etc, surely not the 'corrupt filth'!

He needs to appeal or pay up.

10storeylovesong Fri 08-Feb-13 19:01:56

vicar once again agree that it's more likely to be the police at the wrong end of a complaint. I once went to a domestic where the male was in the kitchen looking for a weapon to use against me. My female arrived at the address and walked into the kitchen, as she walked in the door the male punched her in the face with no warning or preamble, breaking her nose. I grabbed his arm and pulled it behind his back to cuff him. Unbeknownst to me he had a bone condition and this one simple movement broke his arm. His parents were there and saw this - and apologised to us for his actions - they knew I had been trying to talk calmly to him. However, the consultant at the hospital made a complaint about the "animals" that had subjected him to this treatment - without knowing anything about the circumstances. I went through months of enquiries and worry until his parents finally cleared me. If they hasn't been there this could have ended with me losing my job.

Many officers in the force I work in now wear body cams - to protect both themselves and the victims. Since my shift has wore them there has been many complaints made about heavy handedness - none have been upheld once the footage has been shown. In fact, I've had people apologise to me on interview once they've sobered up and realised how they really had behaved the night before.

Again, I'm not saying that all officers are above board, but I have heard people being reported and investigated by their colleagues, and think that the culture of all lads together etc from the 80s has changed and is much improved - although obviously is not perfect.

MrsLouisTheroux Fri 08-Feb-13 20:15:15

You sound ridiculous OP. I have no more to add.

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 20:15:17

And actually the police were as helpful and kind in the mid 80s when I was in my mid 20s as they were last year when I was in my early 50s and married for 20+ years to someone who is a very senior lawyer whom they would undoubtedly discover if they were to google me and I have no doubt they found that out before we got the 2.30am call about the Oyster Card. Nevertheless they got a bollocking over procedure from DH the next day, regardless.

In my experience, incompetent, lazy, feckless wankers with almost zero respect for the law themselves. of those i know/knew, 1 embezzler, 1 raped his two daughters from when they were 6, 1 held 2 illegal firearms & took a lot of class As, confiscated from clubbers, 1 drove everywhere at at least twice the speed limit, 1 used to play 7Up, eg stop every 7th blue car & fabricate some reason to fine them, there was one who severely beat his wife, to the point that he was charged with attempted manslaughter, & I don't know THAT many people!.

When we were burgled the feckers took everything & I mean EVERYTHING. As well as being useless, the two cops were extremely insensitive. Then to top it all off, a couple of weeks later, they found my husband's fleece (with a name tag in, his mum sewed it in for uni grin ) with his corporate credit card (stolen) & a large quantity of drugs, in a bush. They arrested him, at work, on my birthday! It took them 6 hours to look up their systems & see that the items had been reported stolen!

So, fucking useless, yes!

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 21:10:40

ah well, there we go then. we are all useless fuckers.
confused and fed up.

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 21:19:02

I didn't say they were useless fuckers!

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 21:28:03

no you didnt married
babies did.

<finally hides the thread>

LatteLady Fri 08-Feb-13 21:37:50

I have for the most part had really good experiences with the Police but I have also had negative experiences too.

A couple of years ago I was in a black cab in central London chatting to the cabbie, when we were pulled over. The WPC accused the cabbie of using his mobile phone, he wasn't, we were discussing the phasing of lights. He pointed to the footwell next to him and said, "but my phone is there." To which she responded, "Well I saw you throw it down there." At this point, I intervened as she failed to notice me sitting in the back, "Can I help you officer, this gentlemen was actually talking to me and certainly not using his phone, do you think you should check his phone log?" Her face was a picture... but the cabbie was in bits. He was so shocked and when I asked if he wanted to make a complaint, she moved off pretty smartly. Now I hope that she is the exception rather than the rule...

On another occasion, I was told that I was the only person who had called regarding an incident in my street... in fact seven of us had called... that time, at least I received an apology.

To be honest it makes me just a little disappointed as I have always been brought up to trust the Police but these incidents have made me a wary,middle-aged, grey haired woman.

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 21:40:42

Night Vic - and thanks for all you have done for us and hopefully for what you might yet do. I am grateful you and others like you are out there. thanks

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 21:49:04

thanks married (still not clicked the bloody hide button which i really do need to do.....even DH tells me to hide these threads now and he is very anti establishment!)

latte - the police are human. I stop no one now unless i am 100% sure that they were doing what i think they were.....but its not a crime to stop someone and ask them what they were doing if you think they were using a phone etc. its pretty easy to prove if they werent.
and the other thing where you got told that only you had phoned - when you phone 999 or 101 you get through to a call handler - not a police officer. Several people do that job. So while you may get told by one operator or one police officer that only one call was made - unless we have access to every call with every handler its hard to know who called and how many times - if i get told there has been one call i tend to take that as red - there could of course have been more that i am not privvy too unless the dispatcher has relayed that message.
of all the things to complain about im scratching my head at wanting an apology because you are not the only one who called.....

i truly do need to go away from this thread now. it is getting slighly ridiculous and i could sit all night and try to explain - those that hate the police will still do so and those that dont will do likewise. im wasting my breath and my touch typing skills here arent i.....

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 21:51:26

Night Vic - go on night; night; go on, you put the phone down first; night then, bye. tell you what; I'll pm you if they kick off again wink

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 21:54:01

no...you first grin

(do you remember those conversations!!)

bye.....
go on then....
bye....
goodnight...
bye.....
hello? hello? you still there?
ah.....
goodnight then.
yep
goodnight
put the phone down then....go on....you first.....
no
you first.....
grin

vivizone Fri 08-Feb-13 22:30:49

i hate people who keep on saying ' i am hiding the thread' but stick around. attn seeking much

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 22:33:29

I hate people who criticise others for no reason related to the thread.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Fri 08-Feb-13 22:34:17

It's pretty easy to prove if they werent.

Try again Vicar!!

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 22:34:56

well, as someone pmd me today - its like a scab i keep on picking....

you hate people who do that more than the police then? result! grin

i normally do hide threads when i say i will -but i feel the need to justify my existence on this one for some unknown reason.

im not attention seeking. you think i need more attention?? really?

i wanted to right the injustice of the OP. im not corrupt filth. i dont lie. and im not hateful.
i felt the need to try and debate this. im still trying to work out why.

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 22:36:03

dreaming - it is. phone records would easily show if someone was on the phone or not.

Vicar - I think someone needs to take you by the hand and lead you gently away from the thread and sit on you so you can't come back. You don't need this rubbish and you don't deserve to be upset by it.

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 22:41:05

NIIIIGHT VIIICC [GRIN]

ThatVikRinA22 Fri 08-Feb-13 22:46:02

gnite! married
and sdt i will see if i can find a volunteer to sit on me....any takers?? no?
drat.

<eyes up the dog>

My mad lab-pointer cross will come and sit on you, vicar - but she is all elbows and it's like being sat on by a bag of scanners!

marriedinwhite Fri 08-Feb-13 22:51:09

Sending three cats (^^), (^^), (^^) to purr you to sleep. The middle one will sit on your head and the first one will sit on your chest and they might have a bit of a spat over your face if you don't snuggle down and get your head under the covers. I kid you not.

amillionyears Fri 08-Feb-13 23:08:19

Vicar, you are doing a great job telling us what the police are like nowadays for those of us who have very little to do with them.

For those posts like babies, most of us can see what their behaviour may be like by the way that they post.
So no real need to reply.

re the op. She may well be right. Her bf may have been wearing his seatbelt.But she wasnt there, but she could still be right.
But she did also post unacceptable stuff as well.
And, again, most MNetters can see that. So, imo and maybe others, there really isnt a need to "right the injustice of the op".

amillionyears Fri 08-Feb-13 23:09:22

So goodnight from me too.

It's good night from me ........... grin

MardyPants Sat 09-Feb-13 00:15:30

You know who else 'hated' the 'corrupt filth'? Dale Cregan.

Idiot.

YABVVVVU.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Sat 09-Feb-13 07:31:40

Last time I checked Vicar, the accused doesn't need to prove a thing.

Anyway, I hope you slept well and that you manage to wriggle out from under whatever you found to sit on you last night!

BadLad Sat 09-Feb-13 10:31:59

"Then he went to a protest in the States, got roughed up (not severely), was put in a jail cell without being formally charged, was released 2 days later, tried to leave the country, was detained at the airport, shouted back at the police there, got roughed up again, was detained for a further couple of days, and finally came back to the UK where he now has nothing but praise for the UK police"

Did he miss the kettling and beating of the students during the UK student protests then?

Binkybix Sat 09-Feb-13 17:00:20

Clearly saying that all police are corrupt etc is just plain wrong. It's obviously a difficult, challenging job that requires a lot of strength to do, and I respect individual police unless proven otherwise.

But it does seem that whenever there is a genuinely bad experience here, or evidence that a police officer as being honest, there's always an attempt to rationalise or excuse it and a defensive approach (ie people feeling they are personally being got at because they to are police officers). And that doesn't really seem healthy.

I have had really good and not so good experiences of the police, and have known some who I have seen drink-driving or talking about turning a blind eye to things, for example. Does it mean all police are corrupt? No. Does it mean that this sort of behaviour needs exposing and discussing (without being accused of imagining it, making it up)? Surely yes.

ComposHat Sat 09-Feb-13 17:35:53

Binkybix you managed to say everything. I wanted , but lacked the clear headedness to do so.

I agree totally.

cumfy Sat 23-Feb-13 15:50:12

Was there any in-car camera / update ?

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