To wish they could tell me the gender of my baby but understand the reasons why?

(93 Posts)
scottishegg Tue 05-Feb-13 16:02:56

Hi all I have just had my 20 week scan with my 3rd pregnancy and would have quite liked to find out the gender just to prepare and plan in advance, I already have a boy and a girl and would have just liked to have found out the gender this time to give me a difference experience as I didnt find out with my other two.

Though due to hospital policy within the area I live (Shropshire) I cant find out the gender within a routine scan I will have to have one done privately and pay 45 pounds in order to do this though in the next county they are willing to give this information out free as part of the routine scans.

I appreciate that the reason they do this is to supposedly stop certain members of society terminating foetusus that arent the preferred gender which is tragic and abhorrent but I feel that if people really wanted to do this unfortunately they would just pay the £45 and have a private scan( though I admit it has put me off)

I suppose my issue is that different counties have different policies and selfishly I would have liked to have found out but havent the cash to do it.

I am not starting this thread to cause a bun fight or be controversial I promise.

I guess I shall have to wait to be surprised.

Trills Tue 05-Feb-13 16:03:56

How exactly could you be unreasonable, if you want something but understand why you can't have it? Isn't that the very definition of reasonableness?

iwantavuvezela Tue 05-Feb-13 16:07:13

Or pay £45!
I think to ask the person to do the scan to have to try ascertain reasons for knowing the gender would be too onerous ...

CailinDana Tue 05-Feb-13 16:08:50

YANBU.

They offer you screening tests, with the knowledge that 98% of parents who find that their child has a disorder (usually Down syndrome) will abort, yet they won't tell you the sex of the baby just in case you might possibly want to abort on that basis. So aborting for disability is fine but for gender is not. Tells you a lot about the value the NHS places on the life of a disabled child doesn't it?

Also, isn't there supposed to be an "abortion on demand" policy in the UK? Or is it "abortion on the condition that you're not doing it for gender"?

scottishegg Tue 05-Feb-13 16:12:40

I actually didnt think of that Cailin but now I see it in a different light.

PrincessOfChina Tue 05-Feb-13 16:23:09

YANBU. I'm constantly amazed by NHS inconsistencies. The service should either be offered everywhere, or not at all.

Trills Tue 05-Feb-13 16:23:17

It's legal to abort for disability, not legal to abort based on the sex of the baby.

CailinDana Tue 05-Feb-13 16:25:04

Trills - I didn't think you had to justify the reason for abortion?

Trills Tue 05-Feb-13 16:25:30

There is not abortion on demand in the UK.

an abortion may be carried out if:
continuing with the pregnancy would involve a greater risk to the woman's life than ending the pregnancy
continuing with the pregnancy would involve a greater risk of injury to the woman's physical or mental health than ending the pregnancy
continuing with the pregnancy would involve a greater risk to the physical or mental health of any of the woman's existing children
there is a significant risk that if the child is born s/he would have a serious physical or mental disability

Trills Tue 05-Feb-13 16:26:48

And two doctors must approve.

Personally I disagree with this and think that we should have abortion on a "because I don't want to be pregnant" basis up to 12 weeks or so, then have the current "requires a doctor to sign off" up to 24 weeks.

meditrina Tue 05-Feb-13 16:29:28

The purpose of NHS scans is to examine the health if the baby. Unless there is a sex-linked condition in your family, then establishing sex isn't really required.

If some places do more than the medically necessary, then some people, are lucky. You would however have grounds for complaint if they were doing less then necessary and conditions which could be diagnosed prenatally were being missed.

CailinDana Tue 05-Feb-13 16:30:13

Prior to that list that you put up Trills, it says this:

"As well as a woman deciding to have an abortion due to her personal circumstances, there are also a number of medical reasons why an abortion may be necessary."

So a woman deciding to have an abortion due to her "personal circumstances," ie not wanting to be pregnant, the reasons you listed are also included as medical causes for an abortion to be necessary.

DizzyZebra Tue 05-Feb-13 16:30:24

Yanbu. I don't see the point of the hospital carrying this rule, when if you really wanted to know but not pay you could just use the hospital in the next area.

It should be the same rule evetywhere, one or the othet.

Was just going to put the same as trills however I think it's a silly rule, plenty of hospitals will now tell you the sex of the baby and it's so easy to pay for a gender scan that if someone wanted to terminate due to gender (and lie about their reasons) they could quite easily find out with or without help from the nhs

MisselthwaiteManor Tue 05-Feb-13 16:31:57

I must be very sheltered because I'm absolutely stunned that people would abort based on gender, especially as far as 20 weeks. Does that actually happen?

CailinDana Tue 05-Feb-13 16:34:44

Yes, YouHeard. An Indian friend of mine was told she couldn't be told the gender of her baby due to "people in her community" aborting. I was horrified but she agreed with it and said she was glad they did it as it does happen. I would have been pretty livid at being tarred with a certain brush due to my skin colour/accent but she didn't see it that way.

Trills Tue 05-Feb-13 16:34:59

That's the intro fluff, the reasons I write down are what the law actually says.

In reality many doctors will write down "because I don't want a baby" as "risk to mental health of mother".

Not so much in this country, there was a documentary a few years ago about it but can't remember where it was. It was illegal to tell someone the sex of the baby due to people having late abortions based on gender

CloudsAndTrees Tue 05-Feb-13 16:35:14

Caitlin makes an excellent point.

OP, when I had my ds I booked in to have my scan at the hospital in a neighbouring county because I wanted to find out the sex, then after I had done that I changed back to the original hospital that's 10 minutes away from my house. My community midwife fully supported me in doing this, even though I wasn't entirely comfortable with it. But if the NHS is going to impose ridiculous and inconsistent rules, then it follows that people will work their way round them.

YABU to understand the reason why they do this, I don't get it at all.

VinegarDrinker Tue 05-Feb-13 16:35:40

There is a lot of confusion about the legality of abortion. We do NOT have "abortion on demand". So-called "social" abortions are done on the basis of potential risk to a woman's mental health as one of the criteria listed above. And two Drs must sign it off (like another poster I disagree with this). It is only legal up to 24 weeks.

Abortion for life-limiting or life-threatening disability can be done up until 40 weeks again with the agreement of 2 Drs.

ZolaBuddleia Tue 05-Feb-13 16:37:03

Isn't it more to do with avoiding litigation if the patient is told the wrong sex?

VinegarDrinker Tue 05-Feb-13 16:37:35

I agree there should be a national policy though. I work in probably the most ethnically diverse borough in London and our hospital's policy is to offer gender identification at the anomaly scan.

CailinDana Tue 05-Feb-13 16:37:58

Would it happen often that a doctor would challenge a "social" abortion Vinegar? Or is it essentially the case that any woman who wants one can have one, as long as she's less than 24 weeks pregnant?

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 05-Feb-13 16:39:13

I must be very sheltered because I'm absolutely stunned that people would abort based on gender, especially as far as 20 weeks. Does that actually happen?

Yes. Hence the reason why some hospitals won't identify the gender. Baby girls aren't preferred in some cultures. It's very sad.

My hospital wouldn't identify the gender, only if we specifically asked for it to be done.

Are you sure its based on people terminating due to gender?

The hospital I had DS at used to tell people but then they got it wrong and someone attempted to sue them (didn't get very far) after that they flatly refused to tell anyone.

When I had DD1 (in a different hospital) they would tell people but we had to sign a disclaimer saying that we were aware it was only an educated guess and not certainty.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 05-Feb-13 16:40:55

Isn't it more to do with avoiding litigation if the patient is told the wrong sex?

How and why on earth would you sue over that? It's never 100% accurate. Although boys are obviously easier to identify.

EuroShagmore Tue 05-Feb-13 16:43:58

Why would there be litigation for the wrong sex, Zola? What are you going to do? Sue the hospital because your blue isn't your baby daughter's colour?

It's definitely because there is a trend among certain sections of the population to abort girls, sadly.

VinegarDrinker Tue 05-Feb-13 16:45:57

Cailin yes, some (thankfully few) GPs will make their own judgement and refuse to refer patients. They do not have an obligation to refer or suggest a colleague who can (although the vast majority of GPs with a conscientious objection to abortion will at least provide details of where they can get help eg Marie Stopes, BPAS or refer to a colleague).

Sadly many women don't know they can approach organisations without their GPs "consent".

Obviously Drs who choose to work in places which provide abortions would not be working there if they thought women should not have abortions.

I think personally it would be a brave Dr that thought they could prove there would not be a significant risk to a woman's mental health (or future child's health) of being forced to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.

The gestation cut off varies but it is generally quite a lot harder to find anywhere that will provide abortions after about 18 weeks.

JustinMumsnot Tue 05-Feb-13 16:52:19

I had my children at St George's Hospital in Tooting, where members of the communities that people are hinting coyly are believed to be potental girl-aborters abound, and they have no problem telling parents the gender at the 20-week scan. Yet in Shropshire, which is a hell of a lot less ethnically diverse it is seemingly a huge issue. What a load of bollocks. (Not you OP, the hospital.)
Just ignorance and racism on the part of the hospital IMO.

scottishegg Tue 05-Feb-13 16:55:35

Yeah fairly certain its because of the potential terminations a close friend asked during her last scan and was told it was because of this very reason.

CailinDana Tue 05-Feb-13 16:57:14

Am I right though Vinegar that basically there's no realistic situation where a woman who was, say, less than 18 weeks pregnant just couldn't obtain an abortion at all? As in, she might be refused by one GP but she still has plenty of options and as long as she's willing to ask elsewhere she will get an abortion? The reason I ask is that it does appear to me that there is "abortion on demand" in the UK, not in legal terms but in practical terms - essentially, if you want an abortion you can have one. It's not the easiest thing in the world but it can be done.

fromparistoberlin Tue 05-Feb-13 16:57:27

since when is shropshire a hot spot for foeticide?? baffling

Trills Tue 05-Feb-13 16:59:17

I agree that it makes no sense for the NHS to tell the sex in one area and not in another.

crashdoll Tue 05-Feb-13 17:09:40

The reason I ask is that it does appear to me that there is "abortion on demand" in the UK, not in legal terms but in practical terms - essentially, if you want an abortion you can have one. It's not the easiest thing in the world but it can be done.

Being 100% pro-choice, I think this is way it should be.

Hippymama Tue 05-Feb-13 17:23:35

Op, is this at the Royal Shrewsbury?

I had my 20 week scan there and when I asked the reason why they couldn't tell me the sex of my own child, I was told it was because they "couldn't tell" at 20 weeks. Funnily enough, hospitals all over the country can tell at 20 weeks, yet in Shropshire they can only tell at 23 weeks, meaning they can charge parents for an extra scan hmm It is just a money making exercise. If you really want to find out, I can highly recommend babyvision, who are based at upton magna.

CailinDana Tue 05-Feb-13 17:23:56

I'm not disputing that, crashdoll, but I do think it's weird if there is essentially "abortion on demand" yet they won't tell parents the gender of a baby in case they abort for that reason. It seems hypocritical somehow.

Hippymama Tue 05-Feb-13 17:25:23

If the reason was because of potential terminations then they would not tell parents the sex at all, no matter whether they paid or not. The fact that if you want to pay for a private scan you can find out confirms to me that the real reason is down to money making.

VinegarDrinker Tue 05-Feb-13 17:54:34

Hippymama I think from the OP it isn't the NHS trust doing the private scans - it's a private company. So I'm not sure how it can come down to money making?

Cailin I have seen plenty of cases where false information or no information means a woman falls the wrong side of the gestational limit by the time she gets to someone who could help. This is a particular problem with women who have limited English and/or literacy levels. BPAS have a sobering PDF with anonymised case studies of all their "late" abortions and the number who have wrongly been told at 15/16 weeks they are "too late for an abortion" by various HCPs is shocking. Other women are passed from pillar to post eg those with pre existing medical conditions, and can also then end up > 24 weeks.

Yes, the vast majority of educated, literate women will find their own way to an abortion even with unhelpful HCPs on the way.

We should have abortion on demand imho, but we don't.

I don't understand the policy as if you were that bothered you'd have an early gender scan at 15/16 weeks anyway, surely. Any reputable clinic would be very curious about a woman who had booked with a MW, had 2x scans and then changed her mind IME.

AlanMoore Tue 05-Feb-13 18:03:47

You can pay for gender scans at 16wks. It's about £80 here. Our trust will look, if there's time, at the end of the anomaly scan (20-23wks). There is huge south Asian pop here!
You should write & ask for the reason, see what they say!!

AlanMoore Tue 05-Feb-13 18:06:41

I meant to say, agree with pp who finds it bizarre that that's the reason given in Shropshire when they'll tell you in much more diverse regions. It's daft! If they think it's an inappropriate use of sonographers time that's fine but they should say that not some racist bobbins.

blobandsnail Tue 05-Feb-13 22:48:46

This policy has absolutely nothing to do with the risk of people having terminations due to the baby not being the sex they wanted. Its purely a money making exercise! It's the same thing as charging above cost price for scan photos and the money going in to the hospital system. The same way as most people will buy a scan photo, a lot of people will pay for an additional scan. £45 isn't really that much in the grand scheme of things Nd excited parents are easy to make money from.

Dromedary Tue 05-Feb-13 22:55:16

The hospital told me that it could not tell me that it was certain that it was a [insert gender] because of the risk of being sued in the extremely unlikely event that they were wrong! Apparently people wanted reimbursement for having bought blue clothes instead of pink!!

holidaysarenice Wed 06-Feb-13 02:09:11

If a doctor is refusing because of their stance they MUST refer to a colleague who is willing. That's the gmc ruling on docs abstaining.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Wed 06-Feb-13 02:12:10

YABU.

It's the SEX of the baby that can be determined on ultrasounds.

ripsishere Wed 06-Feb-13 02:19:27

But, I think people lose sight of the fact that 25 years ago there weren't scans to see into the murky world of a baby.
You got what you were given.
I do think that there should be a national set of guidelines, either reveal or don't.
I did not have my DD in the UK and sexing was not available where she was born.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 06-Feb-13 02:34:48

No matter what NHS national guidelines they have people can always choose to pay for a scan at one of many clinics sometimes as early as 12/13 weeks, so to be saying we won't tell for this reason is daft.

VinegarDrinker Wed 06-Feb-13 08:22:01

holidaysarenice - I wish that were true, unfortunately the wording is a bit more grey.

" Patients may ask you to perform, advise on, or refer them for a treatment or procedure which is not prohibited by law or statutory code of practice in the country where you work, but to which you have a conscientious objection . In such cases you must tell patients of their right to see another doctor with whom they can discuss their situation and ensure that they have sufficient information to exercise that right."

It is a very small minority who would deliberately delay/mislead/try to dissuade a woman, a much bigger problem is being told they are "too late" wrongly.

VinegarDrinker Wed 06-Feb-13 08:23:27

So at a minimum those with a conscientious objection should provide contact details for eg the FPA, but that isn't quite the same as being obliged to refer on..

Bluemonkeyspots Wed 06-Feb-13 08:28:59

I find it so strange that in this country so many people seem to be desperate for a little girl and having all boys is seen as some kind of negative (talking about people i have encountered not everyone)

Yet in the rest of the world it seems to be the opposite way round hmm

lazybastard Wed 06-Feb-13 08:47:24

IME blue people seem to disapprove of having all the one gender. Since dd2 was born I have met people who say 'you must be so disappointed' 'how unfair on your husband'. Vile people.

Back to the initial question, I too was told the gender thing was to do with some idiot trying to sue. We were told when asked but had to sign a disclaimer that we understood it was not 100% accurate.

lazybastard Wed 06-Feb-13 08:48:11

IME blue people seem to disapprove of having all the one gender. Since dd2 was born I have met people who say 'you must be so disappointed' 'how unfair on your husband'. Vile people.

Back to the initial question, I too was told the gender thing was to do with some idiot trying to sue. We were told when asked but had to sign a disclaimer that we understood it was not 100% accurate.

Worley Wed 06-Feb-13 09:17:35

I've worked at both a hospital where we do sex and one where we didn't sex the baby.. where i currently work we do and it isthe bain if our lives (dramatic i know) people refuse to go until weve seen what the baby is they cry when its not the right sex and it all such an issue. it gets so that i dread having to tell some one if its the same sex as they already have or if theyve already said they dont want another girl.
the best place I worked at was where we didn't sex. we could concentrate on measurements and anomalies. not boy bits or girl bits. I wish it would be a no sexing policy throughout the nhs. if people want to know they can pay privately if they're desperate. I have been in a situation where a lady had had an earlier scan, was told it was a boy, came to the anomaly scan and it was a girl. she was devastated,, she sobbed and literally collapsed outside the scan room afterwards as it was the wrong sex for her culture. ironically she had asked for a termination early on due to her age but presented too late for our hospital to do procedure. and was then told it was a boy at this scan; hence she continued with pregnancy.
as an another poster said earlier on, you get what your given and years ago there wasnt all this fuss about it all. you don't get many true surprises in life so why spoil this one?

ThreeWheelsGood Wed 06-Feb-13 09:46:45

I think it's a timesaving thing, actually. Some trusts have a policy of not saying as the anomaly scan is for taking measurements and identifying problems. The NHS sonographer doesn't want to be held up hunting around for a willy! Parents should go private for this info, it's trivial in comparison with knowing the baby is healthy.

ThreeWheelsGood Wed 06-Feb-13 09:47:12

I think it's a timesaving thing, actually. Some trusts have a policy of not saying as the anomaly scan is for taking measurements and identifying problems. The NHS sonographer doesn't want to be held up hunting around for a willy! Parents should go private for this info, it's trivial in comparison with knowing the baby is healthy.

ICBINEG Wed 06-Feb-13 09:58:33

It makes me sad that people think they need to 'plan' based on the babies gender.

There is far more difference between individual girls (or individual boys) than there is between the average girl and the average boy.

Why not leave the gender stereotyping until the poor fecker has at least seen the light of day....

PleasePudding Wed 06-Feb-13 12:31:21

I can't bear the idea of people being horrified at the sex of their baby. I understand that some people may feel a twinge of regret one way or another but the idea of aborting on the grounds of sex is hideous.

However if someone didn't want a girl to such an extent that they would abort a 20 week foetus what is the point of making them continue that pregnancy? Is it because they may change when the baby is born? Or that the girl will hopefully never regret being born even if her parents are total twats to her or because it is so distasteful to have such abortions on our society and enforces the idea that one sex is preferable to another?

maisiejoe123 Wed 06-Feb-13 12:50:50

I agree with no to providing any gender checking. People collapsing after finding it is a girl etc is just horrible! Where we live our local hospital wont reveal and I think thats the right decision. It's in a very multicultural area. I saw something in the paper today about how immigrant communities cannot adopt a 'pick and mix' democracy and choose their own laws and follow their own cultural beliefs when they are clearly wrong, ie aborting a baby because it is a girl, honour killings, forced marriages etc and I would welcome a government who passes laws making these things illegal as opposed to pretending these things arent happening....

VinegarDrinker Wed 06-Feb-13 13:45:12

They are already illegal...

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 06-Feb-13 14:09:53

Icbineg.

Should I have another child I would like to plan after I know the sex of the baby, if it was one sex I would change my main house and would prefer to do that whilst pregnant.

But then again I wouldn't expect to not pay for that info nor would it be an issue if the info was wrong these things happen.

maisiejoe123 Wed 06-Feb-13 14:10:00

But we do know they go on and have been known to turn a blind eye for fear of upsetting different cultures.

ICBINEG Wed 06-Feb-13 15:03:25

sock you would change your whole house? <must be confused>

Is this about siblings of different sexes not being in the same bedroom? Must admit I don't really get that either....

Hippymama Wed 06-Feb-13 22:13:03

vinegardrinker I live in shropshire and had my baby there fairly recently. It is the NHS trust who do the scans and they will not tell you at 20 weeks. If you want to know the sex then you can pay £50 and come back at 23 weeks to be scanned by the same sonographers in the same scan room using the same scanning equipment. That is why I think it is a money making exercise. The same hospital charges £5 per scan picture, or you can have 3 copies of the same picture for £10, which is well over and above what the pictures cost to produce.

exoticfruits Wed 06-Feb-13 22:17:23

They get it wrong anyway. The woman in the next bed whenI had DS was told it was a girl(she already had a boy) she bought all pink stuff and it was a boy.

Hippymama Wed 06-Feb-13 22:17:51

Just to be clear, I have no objections whatsoever to paying for scan pictures, but I think that the Royal Shrewsbury capitalises on the fact that parents want a picture of their baby and so charges much more than they cost to produce. There is no way that a scan pictures costs £5 to produce, but they know that parents will pay it so they have the photo. I remember a thread on here a while ago asking how much hospitals charged for scan pictures and the Royal was one of the most expensive, with most people saying £2-3 per picture (which I think is reasonable).

jkklpu Wed 06-Feb-13 22:23:08

I often wonder what it is that parents want to prepare based on knowing the gender of their baby in advance.

Hippymama Wed 06-Feb-13 22:27:41

Well in my case, I wanted to get clothes, nursery etc together. I already had lots of "girl" things, but nothing "boy" or neutral. Everybody in my family has girls and everyone assumed my baby was a girl, until the private scan ;)

I know I could have gone out after the baby was here and got things, but would rather spend that time getting to know my new baby and the nearest shops to where I live are over 25 miles away, so not really somewhere I can just pop to.

jkklpu Wed 06-Feb-13 22:31:59

Sonographers can get things wrong and then there's a risk that a parent's first emotion on seeing the new baby is disappointment because it's not the sex s/he was expecting. And clothes are unisex/don't matter at all for months and months (and can be bought online anyway, be it ebay or high street. I'm afraid I just like the surprise - there are so few left in life.

Hippymama Wed 06-Feb-13 22:43:02

I suppose everyone is different. I really didn't like the white and lemon clothes I saw when I was shopping when I was pregnant and didn't want to have a unisex nursery. I'm not someone who really likes surprises either!

The thing that irritated me about Shropshire's stance on the scans was that if I had chosen to go to any of the hospitals outside the county (as I was entitled to do, especially as they are actually closer to my home) then I could have found out the sex and would not have been charged. It was the inconsistency that annoyed me. When I was pregnant I had a number of friends who lived in the same town as me who were also pregnant. I was the only one who chose to give birth within the county we live in and I was also the only one who would have been charged to find out the sex of my baby. The next time I am pregnant I will be going out of the county, NOT because of the scans, but because my experience of giving birth at the Royal was so poor. I would never want to give birth there again (but that is a whole other thread!)

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 07-Feb-13 01:11:35

Yes it is because of the sharing rooms thing I would get a bigger one. I wouldn't expect any of my much older children to share with a baby nor would I have different genders sharing, in all fairness if it wasn't an option for me to do so easily then I wouldn't bother so much but it is so I would.

Another thing prompted by hippy mamas post, why on earth do you hardly ever see pale green baby grows these days, I quite liked them.

ZolaBuddleia Thu 07-Feb-13 08:22:55

Just back on the thread. A couple of people asked why I'd mentioned the legal action angle. No revealing of sex where I live, and think it's unlikely round here that there would be cultural preference for boys. (But plenty of cultural preference for suing anyone and anything! grin)

countrykitten Thu 07-Feb-13 10:07:37

So just because there are mad people who will abort babies if they are girls the OP is not allowed to know the sex of HER baby in HER womb? Might it not be better to tackle the cultural inadequacies which lead to people aborting baby girls rather then punishing a mother who would like to plan ahead for her baby?

countrykitten Thu 07-Feb-13 10:09:16

maisie - great post.

worley Sat 09-Feb-13 00:23:38

hippy mama- it is a money making excersize. our trust has asked us to have a specific weekend clinic where people can pay for us to find out te gender of scan. they have to now make a profit within the nhs and this was a way of trying to make the profit...
also pictures... we charge £3.. another near us charges £5. each if the picture mounts cost £1 then the thermal film Is actually quite expensive. and the time taken out of scanning to print out and mount pictures has all been counted and calculated to provide the cost of each picture. previously any money raised went to the scbu bit now it goes into funding new equipment, courses etc.. even towards the hospital debt.

Twins355 Tue 11-Feb-14 09:24:43

We have been to babyvision for our twins for a gender scan, the lady Ruth started by going through measurements and health of babies and left us worried unnecessarily about our one twin with her expressions and behaviour and started ringing hospital and even forgot our pictures of twins she was that wrapped up in thinking she was a hospital professional. On walking in we said hello to Ruth to be totally blanked and the receptionist who is the partner in the business was very miserable also so not very inviting. Ruth didn't introduce herself until we were lay down ready to commence which was quite rude and unprofessional.
The lady on reception then went on to slate 2 other businesses tht do the same which in business is totally unethical.
All in all terrible experience and has left us worried about the life and growth of our little girl, would not recommend anyone go there and stick to the good old hospital, at least they introduce themselves and have the professional ettiket to not cause unnecessary worry.

Mia4 Wed 12-Feb-14 08:43:53

Yanbu to want to know but personally I thinkvwe should do away with being told at scans altogether. It would solve the issue of some places doing and some not plus I know of two people told the wrong sec of their baby.

Yabu to say gender when you mean sex, gender is social and you won't know until the baby grows up and tells you. People seem to mix up the two all the time, I used to myself before my friend transitioned se now I understand the difference.

If someone will abort due to sex then surely they are likely to pay for a private scan? Cheaper in long run.

HarryTheHungryHippo Wed 12-Feb-14 09:42:57

I had my 20week scan last week and they told me, even asked at the beginning if I wanted to know. I'm in the midlands, why is it different in different parts of the country?

MrsMook Wed 12-Feb-14 10:13:50

The problem with abortion based on sex preferences is that where the practice is carried out, it leads to imbalanced communities as the natural ratio of boys to girls is distorted. There are millions of missing females in the world, particularly in places like India and China, and on that scale there are social issues connected to employment, family structure and crime due to men becoming socially isolated. Not so obvious in minority cultures, but still socially undesirable aside from moral issues.

Most abortions are carried out before 16 weeks unless there is a direct health concern involved. Late abortion is more physically traumatic. Carrying out an abortion based on baby's sex will be a later abortion, and back street abortions always have and always will exist, and are considerably riskier. In that situation, the woman may not have a free choice, and may be coerced by family pressure and may be socially isolated from mainstream culture.

Pigeonhouse Wed 12-Feb-14 10:19:45

It's the different policies from place to place that baffles me. I would have thought Shropshire was unlikely to contain significant numbers of the communities considered most like to abort on gender grounds, yet it gave birth a couple of years ago in a massively multicultural hospital in East London, and there was no policy in gender non-disclosure.

CailinDana, I would have been horrified at being judged as a potential foeticide because of my race!

Pigeonhouse Wed 12-Feb-14 10:20:25

I gave birth in East London, not 'it'.

LouiseSmith Wed 12-Feb-14 10:22:04

You have the right to choose which hospital you are seen at. Change to one that will tell you x

BabysNewName Wed 12-Feb-14 10:22:44

In NHS Grampian they don't tell you. But I don't think it's anything to do with termination. It's because the trust doesn't want to be sued for getting it wrong.

Chattymummyhere Wed 12-Feb-14 10:52:51

My local tell you and do the scan photos for free. However I have always used baby bond at 16weeka to find out.

UriGeller Wed 12-Feb-14 11:11:04

The 29 week scan is a Foetal anomaly scan and not a 'finding out whether I can order the pink pram or the blue pram' scan.

If you want to know which colour to paint the nursery, then its right that you pay for a 'Which colour shall we paint the nursery' scan.

If you want an in depth assessment of your foetus's health and development then the NHS offer the foetal anomaly scan for free.

UriGeller Wed 12-Feb-14 11:11:38

Gah! 20 weeks scan of course!

Fleta Wed 12-Feb-14 11:12:58

Not being facetious but I would be interested to see which members of society the hospital think would abort if the foetus was a girl?

QueenStromba Wed 12-Feb-14 11:17:24

It seems that fake abortion clinics are becoming a problem in the US. They basically mess you around telling you they'll do the procedure until it's too late or tell you that it's too late when it isn't. It's fucking abhorrent behaviour.

autumnsmum Wed 12-Feb-14 11:40:30

Like a pp I've had all my babies in east London and was told the gender at the twenty week scan each time . I had a friend who was scanned at a hospital where there was a policy of not revealing gender and the person doing the scan dropped a very broad hint re the baby's gender

RedToothBrush Wed 12-Feb-14 11:44:11

I would love to know what most people really gain from knowing whether its a girl or boy. In terms of planning you don't NEED to know to buy clothes or to plan bedrooms and I don't have a lot of time who insist that they needed to know for these reasons. They are petty and quite sexist actually. Generally the only reason to know is either for cultural preference or for personal preference or for simple impatience. There are only a few people for which it is important to know for genetic reasons.

It is the job of the NHS is simply to provide health care so I therefore believe that they should not provide this information as it does seem to create far more problems than it solves. I also think that private scanning companies should be more firmly controlled and monitored to see who is using their services. At the moment, I do think the entire system is open to abuse because no one seems to want to acknowledge that there is an issue we should be addressing.

grimbletart Wed 12-Feb-14 13:45:11

Just trying to work out how on earth us older posters managed before the days when telling the sex was an option.

Let's see…we treated a baby as a baby, not as a pre-determined stereotype of what a boy baby should be or a girl baby should be. A house was a house, not a house suitable for a boy or a girl. Clothes were clothes, wallpaper was wallpaper, toys were toys.

No pinkification, no got to be blue, no agonising between a doll or a toy train; just lots of lovely primary colours and toys for every individual taste irrespective of whether it was a boy or a girl.

How did we manage? grin

Mim78 Wed 12-Feb-14 14:29:26

I sort of think they are right not to tell gender because I don't like the idea of abortion on basis of gender. However it does not make sense that it varies by area. I found out both times because I could in my area despite in theory not really thinking I should be told!

However I agree that if you were so bothered you would terminate based on gender you would probably pay the 45 pounds.

The sadder thing is the girls who are born suffering discrimination and not being treated the same as their brothers/ male members of community I guess .

CromeYellow Wed 12-Feb-14 15:05:13

People who intend to abort their female babies will pay to find out privately, this is just punishing poorer people who may not have extra money to spare and insulting everyone else by assuming us all misogynistic baby killers. How offensive and patronising.

If they want to stop gender selected abortions, they should disbar and imprison any doctor caught providing one and imprison anyone caught going abroad for one.

yabu, there are some things which shouldn't be tolerated.

Ragwort Wed 12-Feb-14 15:17:59

I think if it is that important to you to find out the sex (& reasons of what clothes to buy and what colour to paint the room don't seem that essential hmm) - then pay just the £45. Personally I would rather spend the money on white babygrows - don't you all get given tons of baby clothes anyway when your baby arrives, I know we did ? grin.

Reading Worley's comments about peoples' reactions to the 'wrong' sex is heartbreaking.

I was asked if I wanted to know the sex of my baby, I saw absolutely no reason to and didn't need to know - it is the one thing in life which is a genuine surprise smile.

BabysNewName Wed 12-Feb-14 18:38:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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