It's up to mums to teach their boys that pubic hair on women is normal!?

(297 Posts)
Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 21:55:09

I've read countless surveys and reports over the last few months that state that young men would be 'grossed out' if they went to bed with a woman and found that she had pubic hair.

They seem to think that all women either come hair free or should wax it all off.

I think a lot of this attitude comes down to them viewing porn where it's normal for a woman to have zero pubic hair and a neat little pudenda.

It's a worry. I quizzed the local boys who work in our pub and they all wax their chest and think pubic hair is disgusting on both men and women.

So glad I am married to a man who appreciates the 70's!

But what is in store for our young girls?

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 21:59:04

You said yourself that boys are waxing their chests. Why is it worse for girls who wax their pubes?

It's the same thing. All parents have a duty to teach their children that they don't have to conform, and to teach them that hair on anyone's body is normal.

This is something that works both ways, and boys and girls deserve equal consideration.

Tortington Mon 04-Feb-13 22:00:15

yabu - its up to mums to teach their girls not to give a shit what boys think.

it's up to parents.

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:00:51

I'm not sure why you're slanting this towards boys and asking what's in store for 'our young girls' particularly?

I think you'll find that lack of pubic hair is very much a younger generational thing and is just as much a 'girl' thing as it is a 'boy' thing.

Lots of girls and boys don't like pubic hair on themselves or each other.

not just mums. but custy is right.

JoanByers Mon 04-Feb-13 22:01:34

No it isn't.

mrsbunnylove Mon 04-Feb-13 22:03:32

haha! whilst i fully endorse the sentiment, i'm glad i don't have a ds because i don't want to have that conversation!

however, i teach, and have taught sex ed many times. i think this is definitely the place for such a discussion. boys and girls need to know that if they aren't hairless for religious reasons (Muslim women remove pubic hair) then she should be as nature made them.

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:03:37

I read about this kind of thing in Caitlin Moran's book and I was shocked at how prevalent this kind of attitude is among young men. I think a lot of the waxing chests and stuff comes from the bollocks such as TOWIE and the rest of that reality nonsense. Plus young footballers. But they don't ALL do it, or have that attitude. I personally can't stand these 'groomed' men - they're all shiny and look like dolls. I can't see all girls conforming either. I will certainly teach my daughter (already do, actually) that her body is HERS and only she has control over what she does with it.

I agree with the basis of what you're saying but am not sure adolescent boys would look to their mums to find out what was normal about women's bodies though. But as a mum to a girl I changed my mind about permanent hair removal because I feel it would be wrong to show her that pubic hair is something to get rid of. I hope that will go some way to helping her be comfortable with the natural state of her body and choose a partner who respects that.

Icelollycraving Mon 04-Feb-13 22:03:48

What custardo said ^

What about those of us who remove pubic hair because we prefer it that way?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:09:26

Male models have been removing their hair for god knows how long...even pre David Beckham!

Hair removal is just a fad...a phase like all teenage phases.

So the older generation don't like it...but isn't that what teenage phases are all about?

Every generation has something about it that older/younger generations don't like.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:13:43

There's a huge difference between disgust and preference.

I read a lot about boys being 'disgusted' by pubic hair but I don't read the same about girls re chest hair. I think hair chest is a preference (depending on the chest hair, of course! - I don't know I'd go for the full Alec Baldwin) and not something that provokes disgust.

beachyhead Mon 04-Feb-13 22:13:52

Love to have that discussion with my 11 year old DS, not grin

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:14:26

Bit sad that everything's been taken now. My grandparents generation had Elvis and his pelvis, rock n roll, Satanic messages in playing records backwards, Hippies, drugs, etc. Today's generation have...pubic hair. I blame Justin Bieber. Just because it's another reason to have him killed.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:15:05

I don't think it's a fad at all. I think porn has changed young men's views of how women's bodies should look. Hair free and 'un-flappy' blush

nailak Mon 04-Feb-13 22:16:16

erm when i was at school we were all disgusted by chest hair.

KatoPotato Mon 04-Feb-13 22:17:34

Beertricks! you made me audibly 'hoot'

amothersplaceisinthewrong Mon 04-Feb-13 22:17:35

Why is it up to Mums and not Dads.

I think it is a bit odd to be quizzing young barmen about pubic hair when ordering your glass of Pinot.

FlouncingMintyy Mon 04-Feb-13 22:17:37

I think its up to parents to teach their children that pubic hair is normal on both sexes. Good luck with persuading them not to conform though!

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:17:44

Disgusted or scared? Big difference?

TheSmallerPenguin Mon 04-Feb-13 22:19:20

This is one life's great mysteries, all the hand wringing about other people choosing to remove some body hair. Really, what is the big deal? And what is the difference between pubic hair and armpit hair, or leg hair, or facial hair? Or head hair come to that?

Can't we all just do what the hell we want to with it and try to avoiding losing sleep over someone's choices?

Presumably you wouldn't sit up at night worrying about whether Josie down the road had her head hair trimmed and highlighted today? Or shaved her armpits this morning?

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:20:00

Our local is 'very local' - nothing wrong with asking them if they wax their chests! They didn't mind a jot.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:21:31

Tiny Penguin- that's the whole point! Who wants their kids (specially DD's who think their pubic hair is 'wrong') to thing that way.

That's my whole point!

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:21:57

Dear Lord I'm 43 and I absolutely hate chest hair.

I read a lot about boys being 'disgusted' by pubic hair but I don't read the same about girls re chest hair. I think hair chest is a preference (depending on the chest hair, of course! - I don't know I'd go for the full Alec Baldwin) and not something that provokes disgust.

Believe me there are many many girls who find male pubic hair disgusting.

I really don't think it's something that's divided by sex nowadays.

I'm sure it'll pass and the next generation will have preferences that the generation you're talking about now will make cat's bum faces over.

Tis the way of the world really.

"boys and girls need to know that if they aren't hairless for religious reasons (Muslim women remove pubic hair) then she should be as nature made them."

um, what? She should be as she wants to be and fuck what anyone else thinks actually. Bollocks to "oh if she's a muslim it's ok but on anyone else they must be hairy" - it is an individual choice, like many other things people seem to feel they have the right to comment on and/or control for other people.

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 22:22:47

<adds pubes to the ridiculously long list of things I have to talk to DS about>

Just how many boys are you talking to in this survey of yours OP grin

Read Style & beauty, there's plenty of free thinking, non porn-obsessed bloke influenced women there talking about the length/condition/shape/existence of pubes.

It's a thing now. It will pass.

FYI when I was at school we were grossed out by blow jobs grin

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:24:58

Beertricks! you made me audibly 'hoot'

And that has to be the best and most middle class "LOL" I've ever read in my life! grin grin grin

Rilson Mon 04-Feb-13 22:25:05

It's just a preference and a generation thing.

My preference has changed with age regarding what I find attractive and what a I prefer on myself.

I don't think I will be having a pubic/body hair conversation with my teens though. They can decide themselves if they like hair free and unflappy or not.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 22:25:30

If you wouldn't go for a full Alec Baldwin, then why should any male want to go for a female that has pubes going half way down her thighs and half way up her tummy?

Both are natural, but both are generally considered unattractive.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:25:35

Pom - it's all very well to say that people should be as they want to be but it's just not how society works.

Most Muslim women I know wax their entire bodies on the last day of their period so that they can be ready for their men once they are 'refreshed' from their period. It is a time of preparedness for sex with their husbands again. A full body wax takes about 2 hours and a lot of pain. It is a ritual for many of them.

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:26:48

Glad I'm not Muslim...

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:27:28

My central point is that porn is changing the way that men think of women's bodies.

HollyBerryBush Mon 04-Feb-13 22:28:01

I find it puzzling you would want to tell you son to pick a girl with a hairy mary. Whats he supposed to do? ask her to drop her drawers for inspection first? Should he issue an order to regrow?

>fuckwits abound at times<

Signet2012 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:28:05

The way I see it. If dp has time to check out what my pubic hair is doing and has chance to think about whether it disgusts him or not then I'm doing it wrong.

he wouldn't care less if it was purple and plaited its been so long

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 22:29:06

Up you really are proving to be an authority on the subject grin

KatoPotato Mon 04-Feb-13 22:29:15

<takes a bow>

Do you hear that OP?
That's the sound of my point bypassing you completely grin

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:30:31

Hollyberrybush, why am a fuckwit for my opinion? I did not say that a man should inspect a woman's bush first. How did you even come to that conclusion? Don't fucking insult me.

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:30:32

Look I understand what you're trying to say OP...lord knows it's been posted about enough.

But I'm really tired of the lazy assumption that all this pube free phase is down to boys and boys only hmm

Believe it or not there are young women out there with minds of their own...and with minds that are extremely similar to the young men that they know (who knew?)

So fair enough if you want to have a bit of a gum bump about "Those younguns today"...I think we all hit an age when we do that.

But do please lay off of the 'boy blaming' and open your eyes to the fact the younger generation are both male and female and it's not all down to the big bad smelly boys hmm

HollyBerryBush Mon 04-Feb-13 22:31:35

Im not insulting you, you're doing a marvellous job all by yourself grin

MikeOxardInTheSnow Mon 04-Feb-13 22:31:56

Yabu. It's not the 70s anymore, get over it. It's a generational thing, lack of pubic hair is a normal and respectable choice to make. I would be grossed out if dh grew a beard tbh. When it comes to hair, sometimes less is more! Not sure why you are getting your knickers in a twist about other people's pubic hair, you are trying to make it into something that it's not imo.

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:32:12

HollyBerryBush The voice of reason as always grin

I'm starting to think I'll just let you post for me because you're so much more succinct than I am!

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:32:13

As I said, blame Justin Bieber. It's ALL his fault, global warming, pubic hair, the lot...

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

alphabetspaghetti Mon 04-Feb-13 22:32:45

This works both ways. There is pressure on girls, but lets not forget that boys are also on the receiving end of peer pressure.

Its not just boys that watch porn. Girls do too.

I would hope that every parent will talk to their children about their bodies - regardless of their sex.

ChestyLeRoux Mon 04-Feb-13 22:32:53

Im in my 20s and this really is no way as big and issue as people make it on here.I think some people read about it and think boys are turning down sex because of it.It doesnt happen in rl as far as I know.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:33:17

I don't think anyone can stop the proliferation of porn. And porn is a (non-specialist) pube-free area.

apostropheuse Mon 04-Feb-13 22:34:16

Chest hair is very attractive. That is all.

(On a man of course wink )

rollmopses Mon 04-Feb-13 22:35:15

Very much down to social class I'm afraid.

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:35:28

Yes porn is a pube free area as that is the 'in phase' right now just as the '80's bush' was once a phase.

But do you not think teenage girls watch porn? confused

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 22:36:04

I am told by friends in the US that girls there are grossed out by men's with foreskins. Who knew?

Makes a Veet strip wax seem like a walk in the park.

<Thinks of the poor DS's foreskins> sad

andubelievedthat Mon 04-Feb-13 22:36:33

and i expect all boys with long/dyed hair are to be avoided/girls with shaved heads likewise?

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:36:42

80s bush? Love that phrase! Sounds like something Magnum PI would have had...

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 22:37:26

Porn has been around for as long as people have. And it will stand the test of time far longer than any fashion phase ever will.

I don't know why you are blaming this on porn. I have seen very little porn, and I have been having Brazilian bikini waxes for nearly 20 years.

ItsAFuckingVase Mon 04-Feb-13 22:38:17

Christ on a bike!

Why is your ideal of a hairy minge better than somebody else's of a hairless one? Surely it's each to their own and all?

FWIW I hate pubic hair. I hate it on me as I don't want a sweaty minge, and hair feels unhygienic to me. I hate it on other people because, well, who wants a mouthful of pubes when they give head?! When I was at school, the fashion was for lads to defuzz their genitals because they thought it made their tackle look bigger. It goes in circles...

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 22:38:28

You lead Clouds others follow grin

Darkesteyes Mon 04-Feb-13 22:39:04

Its not just young men. This actor seems to expect it too and hes 45.

www.getthegloss.com/article/going-south-my-first-bikini-wax-in-20-years

whateveritakes Mon 04-Feb-13 22:39:15

CloudsAndTrees - how much money do you reckon that is then....

...hope you get it out enough to make it cost effective

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:39:44

OMG Magnum would probably have had the entire bodily rug grin

<< Boak >>

And yes to foreskins and American women (well not every American woman obvs)

It's not really the done thing over there it would seem.

SirIronBottom Mon 04-Feb-13 22:40:16

I'm the opposite: I'm a bloke. I'm pretty young. And I grew up thinking the opposite. The first naked woman I ever saw other than my mother was, ahem, extremely hairy down there. So when I later saw a woman who had shaved it all off I was mildly shocked.

Our DD will be told that it's normal and it's up to her to do whatever she wants with it.

mercibucket Mon 04-Feb-13 22:40:20

Can't believe posters are getting applauded for calling other posters fuckwits

Aibu - home of the lowest common denominator

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:40:33

Access to porn has changed.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 22:41:06

Back then they were just called bikini waxes though Enjoy! I liken it to the whole baby led weaning thing. Going on for years before anyone actually gave it a name grin

HollyBerryBush Mon 04-Feb-13 22:42:14

I think a lot of this attitude comes down to them viewing porn

Theres a sweeping judgement that all the young men in Ops local are furiously beating their meat every night tp online fantasy instead of hooking up IRL.

sad world

What is this obsession with other people's pubic hair?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:43:12

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:43:38

A hair-free one at that, no doubt!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:45:18

Our DD will be told that it's normal and it's up to her to do whatever she wants with it

Well exactly.

That's the most sensible thing any parent of a DD or a DS can teach their kids.

What makes me a teensy bit annoyed with MN is that for some reason some parents think the whole 'pube free' fad/phase only affects girls? confused

There are lots of young boys who don't know whether to keep it/trim it/shave it/wax it.

Why on earth some people can only see it through the eyes of a girl is beyond me totally?

larks35 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:46:04

This has reminded me of when my DS(2yo at the time) saw me come out of the shower, he had recently taken interest in his own winky and noted that daddy had a winky, he saw my hairy bush and cried out "Mummy, winky broken!". I think I might have put him off for life!

I think that leaving it to mums to teach their boys about pubic hair might have the opposite effect. "Mum thinks pubic hair is okay, which means it is most definitely uncool".

HollyBerryBush Mon 04-Feb-13 22:46:20

I'd offer you a gaze, but I think you'd like it too much grin

Justesayin Mon 04-Feb-13 22:47:10

Porn has been around for as long as people have. And it will stand the test of time far longer than any fashion phase ever will.

Derp. No porn has not been around as long as humans have existed. Movies has not been around for very long, and internet with streaming movies has been around for a less than a nanosecond of human history. It's no secret that porn today shows hairless women and that boys are very influenced by it.

It's fucking sad if boys of today look at a normal naked woman and goes "ew gross, her crotch isn't bald"

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:48:14

grin at Holly.

HollyBerryBush Mon 04-Feb-13 22:48:43

Our local is 'very local' - nothing wrong with asking them if they wax their chests! They didn't mind a jot.

But did you ask the women if they waxed ? or would that be stepping over the mark?

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 22:48:49

Worra you can't be surprised about a pube thread though. The thread about What We Should Teach Girls highlighted a worrying trend for blaming boys and men for all manner of bear traps awaiting today's young women.

I found it really quite depressing.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:49:27

Thank you Just.....aka voice of reason (beyond moi!)

ChestyLeRoux Mon 04-Feb-13 22:49:43

I watched a massive amount of porn in my teens and it hasnt made me shave all my pubes off.Lots of my friends are the same.People have their own minds and if they want to do it thats fair enough.

Why is it a mother's job to do this? confused

HollyBerryBush Mon 04-Feb-13 22:51:16

Porn has been around for as long as people have. And it will stand the test of time far longer than any fashion phase ever will.

I agree with that^^

Anyone who has a faint understanding of history and art will know that erotica has been with the human race since time in memorium

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_erotic_depictions

Early cultures often associated the sexual act with supernatural forces and thus their religion is intertwined with such depictions. In Asian countries such as India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Japan and China, representations of sex and erotic art have specific spiritual meanings within native religions. The Greeks and Romans produced much art and decoration of an erotic nature, much of it integrated with their religious beliefs and cultural practices

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:51:27

"It's fucking sad if boys of today look at a normal naked woman and goes "ew gross, her crotch isn't bald"

YY but do you not realise that girls think the same about boys?

Porn is uni-sexually hairless...it's really not just the women.

Therefore, boys with naturally hairy bodies are under the same pressure as girls.

This is what some people need to understand.

I know a minority (thankfully) of people would love to blame 'the menz' and make it a female 'victim' thing...but honestly most teens are in the same boat here when it comes to the expectation of personal hair removal.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 22:52:11

Movies might not have been, but porn has been around for a very long time. I may have exaggerated slightly.

That museum in Amsterdam is very enlightening.

And I completely I agree with Worra. If people are going to see a problem out of a relative non event, then it should be about both boys and girls. It's equally as sad if girls of today and look at a normal naked boy and think they are gross if they aren't bald.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 22:53:41

Dunno, I guess being a parent might come into things.

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 22:53:46

EnjoyResponsibly Yeppers!

larks35 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:53:46

Have to ask OP what is it you are reading? Countless reports and surveys about young men's opinions on pubic hair? Can't say I've read any, ever and I do try to keep up with current affairs.

Darkesteyes Mon 04-Feb-13 22:54:02

From my earlier link.

There I was, merrily treading water, marvelling at my bravery and the welcome increased sobriety, when an actor friend who shall remain nameless (Tom Hollander) swam past sporting a large pair of goggles (surely against the rules when skinny dipping?). Anyway, he ducked dived right in front of me, only to surface very rapidly, huffing and puffing for air. He was slack-jawed with a mixture of horror and shock. “Jesus Christ!” he exclaimed, just about daring to glance below. “Have you completely given up?”

SolidSnake Mon 04-Feb-13 22:54:10

As a bisexual woman, I find pubic hair on women (and men actually) a big turn on, no pubic hair is a huge turn off for me. Obviously I wouldn't force my girlfriend or boyfriend to do anything that wasn't comfortable for them however.

Just my contribution. grin

Boomerwang Mon 04-Feb-13 22:54:54

So who actually has had a conversation with young boys over their preferences regarding female body hair? How do you know what they are ALL thinking? Where is this information coming from?

merci I'm sure it's a mistake...

Dunno, I guess being a parent might come into things.

Into what?

tittytittyhanghang Mon 04-Feb-13 22:55:20

Is it not better to teach all our children, regardless of gender, that naturally hairy, bald as a coot and everything else in between, is all normal and whatever choice they make, if anyone makes them feel bad for it, then its the other person is a fuckwit, not them?

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 04-Feb-13 22:55:23

I've spoken to my ds17 about condoms and respecting girls etc, who knew I had to tell him to tell new girlfriend she shouldn't shave her pubes.shock.
Sorry, but I'm not going to have that conversation.

Darkesteyes Mon 04-Feb-13 22:56:31

What tittyhanghang said.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 22:56:38

I wondered that too Larks! grin

Where are these countless surveys and reports that have come out in the last few moths about what grosses out young men?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ComposHat Mon 04-Feb-13 22:57:11

So glad I am married to a man who appreciates the 70's!

Just as well as my female partner has a similar appreciation of the 1970s, which is just as well as I am a very hirsute gent: think the love child of teen wolf and chewbacca.

I think at the age of 33 I'm on the side of those who consider the whole Brazilian thing a bit weird and creepy. As others have said, I think that stems from growing up in the pre-internet age and not having porn readily available at an impressionable age (unless you count the girdles section in the Kays catalogue). So my impression of the female body was more informed by normal women.

Isn't there a bit of a bag lash with the Muffia protesting against the obsession with removing pubic hair and labia surgery? I hope this is the start of a growing movement.

TheSmallerPenguin Mon 04-Feb-13 22:57:38

70s and 80s porn featured VERY hairy bits. I think it could be argued that porn is following the general fashion for degree of business, rather than setting the trend. A bit chicken and egg like.

SolidSnake Mon 04-Feb-13 22:57:45

Btw, I don't think that the OP is saying that all girls shouldn't shave their pubes, but they shouldn't feel that they have to if they don't want to, to please men.

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:57:49

Is there anything we AREN'T supposed to discuss with our kids now? Cos stuff won't get done at this rate - I'm going to spend the rest of my life explaining EVERYTHING to my dc...

TheSmallerPenguin Mon 04-Feb-13 22:58:20

Bushyness, not business!

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 22:58:37

Ah go on LBE, then come back and tell us how that went grin

It's your job as a mother <stern>

however, i teach, and have taught sex ed many times. i think this is definitely the place for such a discussion. boys and girls need to know that if they aren't hairless for religious reasons (Muslim women remove pubic hair) then she should be as nature made them.

So, if I am not Muslim, I am not allowed to decide how I want my minge? Fwiw, I shave, and have done for nearly 20 years, and that's the way I like it. As far as I am concerned, my minge is no-one else's business, and other women's minges are none of mine.

If the subject came up, I would make sure the boys knew that pubic hair is perfectly normal, and that they should choose the women they become intimate with based on who they are, not how they look. I can't say I have had the first part of that discussion with them, but they certainly know my feeling on the importance of the person, not the packaging.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Boomerwang Mon 04-Feb-13 22:59:22

I think the same, SolidSnake

Boomerwang Mon 04-Feb-13 23:00:42

Sorry, I just reread the OP and realised that 'young men' and 'young women' must probably mean older men and women than the ones I had in my head. 'Young' to me implies someone teenage or younger.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 23:01:12

So I suppose you think i"m being unreasonable.

You think it's ok for young girls to feel ashamed of their pubic hair. And boys too. Because we all make our own life decisions without any outside influence.

That's what I'm reading.

Boomerwang Mon 04-Feb-13 23:02:14

Then you're reading a different thread.

ChestyLeRoux Mon 04-Feb-13 23:02:33

No I think youve read surveys and magazines and have overreacted the issue.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I haven't seen anyone say it is OK for young men or young women to be made to feel ashamed of their body hair, Uppatree.

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 23:04:22

A comment or a thread does not equate to over-reaction. I thought this was a discussion board? My word is not the last (well, to me.....)

TheSmallerPenguin Mon 04-Feb-13 23:04:53

I'm quite ashamed of the state of my legs at the moment gorilla

Uppatreecuppatea Mon 04-Feb-13 23:05:06

Good night! x

TomDudgeon Mon 04-Feb-13 23:05:23

I've learned one thing from this thread
I now think Tom Hollander is a cock

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 23:06:41

Well finally OP you've recognised that it's not just young girls who feel ashamed/under pressure about their bodily hair but young boys too.

That's all I was trying to get you to understand.

It really is something that both boys and girls feel disgusted by and are sometimes made to fee disgusting for having.

This whole "It's down to the boyz" thing is starting to grate on me.

It's really not down to one sex only.

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 23:06:54

Tom Hollander is a hairless cock...

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 23:07:14

No OP, we are saying quite the opposite. We agree that no one should be ashamed of their bodies.

We are questioning whether girls only shave their pubes because of porn obsessed "boys".

And we are questioning the role that you would have mothers play in teaching boys that they mustn't make girls shave their pubes to look like film stars.

And we are questioning your assumption that women don't just shave because they want to.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 23:07:16

Why do you assume that just because someone uses some method of hair removal that they are ashamed of their hair. Maybe they just don't like it? That's not the same as being ashamed.

SigmundFraude Mon 04-Feb-13 23:07:57

I think I'll try and rest easy over this one, hopefully when my boys are hitting puberty big fluffy bushes will be all the rage regardless of the owner of the bushes sex.

Who wants to stare at ingrown hair zits? Horrible. I'm sure bald crotches aren't as common as people make out.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 23:10:04

Y'know, I put the laptop on to watch some Heroes (yes, I'm that out of date) in peace with the kids in bed. That was 2 frigging hours ago. I physically cannot tear myself away from the AIBU board. Heaven help me...

I shave not because I am ashamed of my pubic hair, but simply because I prefer it that way.

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 23:12:21

Tom Hollander is the sort of bloke you hope will get a pube lodged in his throat for life.

Just for being in Rev if nothing else.

WorraLiberty Mon 04-Feb-13 23:12:49

Really though I think pubic and chest/back hair removal is a phase like any other and I can't wait to see what the next generation's phase/fad will be grin

I have half a mind that our kids will be cat's bum mouthing about it and we'll all be cool grannies telling them to chill the fuck out! grin

BegoniaBampot Mon 04-Feb-13 23:17:15

I prefer some bush and have argued about the trend for shaving it all off. But, if we are saying we should tell girls that it's natural etc, not to be pressurised - what about shaving legs and armpits? Thinking about it, is it really that much different?

Boomerwang Mon 04-Feb-13 23:22:03

Worra I wouldn't be surprised if it's face tattooing after seeing that daft Russian girl the other day sad

SigmundFraude Mon 04-Feb-13 23:22:04

I do hope so Worra, otherwise I'll be hiding the Immac/Nair whatever you call it (showing my age there! Is it still called Immac? Never used the stuff).

I also hope boys wearing jeans around their knees will be a dim and distant memory too.

BigSpork Mon 04-Feb-13 23:23:18

Helping children (and adults) know the wide range of normal is important. In my discussions with my kids, who've seen their father's and mine's hairy legs/underarms/arms for DP, that the hair is normal, they will it grow their as they become adults, and the amount of hairiness is individual (DP has fuzzy hobbity feet to match his legs, I have very sparse hair on my legs).

Beyond that hasn't come up yet but beyond that is preference. I don't shave at all but I'm far more covered than most including my head -- which other people have rudely said means I'm ashamed of my body when really I just find it more comfortable having more control over who sees what and I just find it far easier to just pull my hair up and don a cap than deal with keeping my wispy hair in check. I know other women who feel similar about getting rid of body hair completely rather than deal with the issues it can cause.

There is an issue of insecurity around trying oneself up to the idealized unrealistic expectations in media all around us. This article on girl's insecurities around their genitals I think is far more important talking point about normalcy than hair which is easily changed and much like discussing how images in mainstream media are quite altered and narrow (particularly for women - thin, sizeable chest, white or if not light, very standard hair, and so on), discussing how images in porn are also often altered to fit something that just doesn't exist and that bodies, and genitals and hair, come in a wide variety is an important thing.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Mon 04-Feb-13 23:25:43

Last time I read one of these threads, I asked DS2 if, in his experience, most women his age (22) had naked genitals.

He said no.

(I now know more about his girlfriends than I really needed to. grin)

Maybe we're just behind the fashion in my area?

Copthallresident Mon 04-Feb-13 23:38:15

Please do talk about this with your sons

I have two teenage DDs and the cool crowd use shaving as another way to divide and rule. At one point when Formspring was the rage the chief alpha girl was using it as a way of mentoring her younger Y7 proteges, advising them that no boy would want to have sex with them unless they do, which of course they would all be wanting to be doing soonest.....and getting her boyfriends on to confirm that this was true. This was followed by a whole thread of "it itches" comments apparently. DDs laugh about it and say they were looking out for squirming Year 7s to see which ones were the acolytes. They laugh about it but at the same time one DD has red hair and the obsession with the supposed repulsiveness of her pubic hair is past a joke.

catladycourtney1 Mon 04-Feb-13 23:45:05

I think the message we need to communicate to our children, male or female, is that they should never feel pressured into doing something they don't want to do because of how they think other people (of the same or of the opposite sex) will react to it, and that there is nothing wrong with looking how they want to look.

I shave, wear make-up, etc because it makes me feel better. I'm pretty sure that even if I woke up tomorrow morning and the entire male sex had disappeared, I would continue to do so, because it makes me feel more comfortable. In fact, an ex of mine used to badger me to grow my pubic hair back in because he liked it, and I refused without a thought. When my daughter is old enough to consider these things, I'll make sure she knows that she's just as beautiful and valuable without having to modify herself, but encourage her to do what she wants to do. I'll also make sure she knows that men (and women) and their bits and pieces come in all shapes and sizes, and that while she might have a preference, that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with anyone who doesn't fit with that. And if I have a son, when the time comes I will teach him the same thing.

ComposHat Mon 04-Feb-13 23:45:24

Please do talk about this with your sons

I am massively pro-muff, but if my mum tried to have this conversation with me as a teenager, I would have run a mile.

cantspel Mon 04-Feb-13 23:50:38

I have 2 teen sons and i dont want to know how they choose to wear their public hair or not wear it as the case may be.

There are just some things a mother doesn't need to know.

'I am massively pro-muff' grin

I find armpit hair (on both sexes) just horrible. YUK. But pubes/chest/legs etc, couldn't give a rat's arse.

I think that we should teach that it's 'normal' to have hair on your body. And that you can choose to grow, groom or shave as you see fit.

catladycourtney1 Mon 04-Feb-13 23:55:53

cantspel "public hair" grin

cantspel Mon 04-Feb-13 23:57:40

whoops

Copthallresident Tue 05-Feb-13 00:02:28

ComposHat Cantspell So instead you want them to get their attitudes to women from the boys changing rooms?

SolidSnake Tue 05-Feb-13 00:07:41

Visualise I like armpit on both sexes grin I think maybe i'm just odd!

cantspel Tue 05-Feb-13 00:09:41

No i expect them to make up their own minds as to what they prefer.

Over the years both my husband and i have been bare and hair depending on what we fancied at the time. It is not the big deal mn seems to think it is and this is the only place where it seems to get discussed at least once a week.

In the real world no one i know cares who has pubes and who doen't.

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 05-Feb-13 00:10:27

Just wondering how to start the conversation with ds.
"Ds dear, has girlfriend got pubic hair? Because you know it's fine if she doesn't shave, you don't want her looking like a porn star do you?"
Yes that I could see that going well,.
I think it's better that I mind my own business.

moreyear Tue 05-Feb-13 00:13:32

Well it won't be a conversation I will be having anytime soon with my 2 year old DS. smile I think you are unreasonable to slate this at the feet of mothers of sons (especially as young men are themselves under increasing pressure to wax/have a cut/chiseled body etc).Boys are also subject to societal pressure - do you educate your daughters about that?

It is a difficult area and though I understand the impulse to blame pornography I don't know that it is actually true. The Pre Raphilite critic John Ruskin famously recoiled in horror when confronted with his bride's pubic hair in 1848. Think of classical statues, they are mostly devoid of pubic hair so it is really nothing new.

moreyear Tue 05-Feb-13 00:25:59

Pushed too soon - what I do think we should teach our children is that beauty comes in many forms. That, like life, there is no one correct, homogeneous ideal and those who can appreciate beauty in all its diverse forms lead much richer lives.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Tue 05-Feb-13 00:37:39

The Ruskin thing was supposedly because his models were also prostitutes, and removed pubic hair to stop transferring pubic lice. Early STI prevention...

Copthallresident Tue 05-Feb-13 00:37:44

moreyear I definitely do, and from quite a young age too. The problem as DDs say is that boys do tend to absorb these attitudes from their peers. DD was brought up alongside a close friend's DS who was born a couple of days later, and his parents simply do not feel the need to have the sorts of conversations I have with my daughters, nor do they feel the need to set the same boundaries, simply because they perceive him to be less vulnerable. I feel it is important that I discuss this issue with my daughters so they know there is another point of view to the ones they are hearing from peers trying to establish cool credentials and build up self esteem through supposed superior sexuality etc. so they can have the confidence to decide for themselves, and be themselves, without reference to their supposed attractiveness to the opposite sex. We also have the conversation about judging the opposite sex in the same way. It is a far greater problem for girls than for boys, and a greater source of vulnerability. However I think it can be a problem for boys too and those conversations should take place with them too.

sleepywombat Tue 05-Feb-13 00:41:06

I agree with the OP.

The pressure on girls to conform to the porn star ideal, is a lot greater than that on boys imo.

Dh is hairy, he's never felt the need to shave anything. He trims his beard from time to time.

I didn't shave my legs until I was 14. I didn't see the need as the hair was blonde & soft (not any more). Then an older male cousin said 'yuck' & told me it was disgusting that I didn't shave - I was so embarrassed & started shaving.

When I was 20 I was dumped because I refused to wax down below.

I've worked with teenagers & the sexual stuff they talk about is quite shocking (much of it new to me). However, all the girls want to do is please the boys, there is nothing mentioned about their own pleasure.

bootsycollins Tue 05-Feb-13 00:49:01

You quizzed the local boys who work in your pub about waxing and pubes? That's the real worry not the general publics pubes, if you were a man asking the local young ladies who work in your pub about waxing and pubes you'd have your name on a register. Seriously op you've got so much more than other people's pubes to worry about biscuit

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 05-Feb-13 01:01:11

I don't think it's a question of pulling your kids to one side for an in depth analysis of pubic topiary, it's more a question of how you respond to off the cuff comments they make- agree with Sleepy wombat that there has been a sea change in the last decade or so. I'm actually pretty concerned about the culture my daughter is going to grow up in. I half hope she's butt ugly with an IQ of 160 so she'll realise she'll never meet the ideal so she can avoid all this shit and spend her life cracking cold fusion instead.

There's no point in thinking that women are not under pressure to conform to an ideal constructed by men which involves removal of natural hair growth from an increasing number of body parts. It's hardly a new idea. It's just that the ideal changes, and gets more high maintenance as we go along. Anyone who thinks the average man spends more time on grooming/appearance than the average women is delusional.

I just laugh when I hear people say "But I do it for me. It makes me feel better" Of course it makes you feel better. It makes you feel more accepted by society, more attractive to men, more envied by other women, but don't kid yourself that you're making that decision in a cultural vacuum.

I think the reason Ruskin got a little confused was that the prostitute/model's pubes had probably already fallen out because it's a common symptom of syphillis which was pretty much ubiquitous amongst sex workers at that time.

bootsycollins Tue 05-Feb-13 01:11:06

Yeah women get pube envy bigtime confused

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 05-Feb-13 01:36:39

Bootsy You're deliberately missing my point. Women envy other women who are more attractive to men than they are because to most women, how attractive they are to men is extremely important, far more important than how important men feel it is to be attractive to women.

eg When they've done surveys that have asked people if they'd rather be rich and ugly, or poor and good looking, there is a massive gender divide over which way people choose- most women choose looks, most men choose wealth.

SolidSnake Tue 05-Feb-13 01:38:10

A+ post RichMan

MyFace Tue 05-Feb-13 02:06:22

This is all I have to say to anyone who cares...

ChestyLeRoux Tue 05-Feb-13 07:20:24

I think some people are just more easily influenced.I dont shave me legs never have,and dont feel the need to.No one has ever commented in my whole life.My best friend is 21 and we go out all time, and its never been an issue when out either.

If you want to do these things fine, but if your a confident, well liked person then no one will comment.

LouMae Tue 05-Feb-13 07:25:00

I'm part Greek and my hairs are very dark and I definitely get fair hair envy. There's no way I couldn't not shave my legs or underarms and show them in public, people would think I look like a gorilla. It's definitely harder for darker/hairier women in modern society.

bootsycollins Tue 05-Feb-13 07:32:11

True RichMan true

catladycourtney1 Tue 05-Feb-13 10:29:45

Richman I agree with what you're saying, but not that women are kidding themselves when they say they shave because they want to. Most things we do, we do because we want to be acceptable to society. Would you bother washing your dishes, washing your clothes, washing yourself if you lived in a "cultural vacuum?" Would you trim your nose hair, clean your ears out, or wear deodorant? Everyone feels more comfortable when they know they aren't being shunned or ridiculed. Of course, there are people who don't bother with these things, but whether you want to be one of them should be a personal choice.

And that's not to mention the fact that we are biologically programmed to want to be attractive to the opposite sex in order to ensure reproduction with the best partners. Of course, that hasn't always meant having to shave body hair, etc, but for a lot of people, it does now. The desire to conform to this doesn't make someone insecure, or a sheep, it gives them an evolutionary advantage.

MaryPoppinsMassiveSack Tue 05-Feb-13 10:38:33

If full shaving / waxing is a problem then why not shape pubes into something interesting or funny. I made an Xmas tree recently and will be strimming them again shortly to bust out a full-on love heart. Come Easter I'll do a Cross before it's time to whip them all off for the summer.

I'm quite dark so the shaping thing can be more effective than with fair hair.

Startail Tue 05-Feb-13 10:46:33

I don't think most boys would give a flying fuck what a girls private parts looked like.

Most boys are just unspeakably grateful a girl has let them get that far.

In my experience boys and young men may be big on bravo, but only a tiny number are actually good looking enough or confident enough to actually put preferences into practice.

The reality is that boys chase girls until they let them catch them.

mrsjay Tue 05-Feb-13 10:48:13

I think you'll find that lack of pubic hair is very much a younger generational thing and is just as much a 'girl' thing as it is a 'boy' thing.

^ ^ this it is more a personal preference than anything the hair removal industry is huge women shave their legs because they are not keen on it so why not their pubes, I have mine tidy grin but it really is my own choice I think there is far too much interest in why people remove body hair,

Fairylea Tue 05-Feb-13 10:50:43

I shave everything off. Even when I was single for years with no hope of anyone making a viewing of my fanjo I shaved it all. Because I want to. I like it. For the same reasons I shave my arm pits and shave my legs.

I have a ds and I will be teaching him that there's nothing wrong with having body hair as a woman, or not. It's personal choice.

fromparistoberlin Tue 05-Feb-13 10:53:36

BOAK and again boak

thats just from the thread title

Saski Tue 05-Feb-13 10:56:15

I think how you "style" your pubic hair is a personal choice.

To take a broader view on the OP's comment, I think it's a mother's responsibility (and father's as well) to ensure that her son has a healthy view on what constitutes a beautiful or desirable woman. I don't think that a boy of 18 preferring a bikini wax in and of itself means the mother has failed; you have to consider his views towards women in their entirety.

I hate all this post-feminist bullshit, anyway. Can we please bring back proper feminism? I weep for these young ladies.

Pendeen Tue 05-Feb-13 10:57:03

I'm glad I have DD and not a boy, that would be a really embarrasing conversation.

mrsjay Tue 05-Feb-13 10:58:01

I don't think that a boy of 18 preferring a bikini wax in and of itself means the mother has failed; you have to consider his views towards women in their entirety.

well said saski

I was thinking about this last night - as another poster has said, if I sat my boys down to have an earnest discussion on pubic hair, they would run a mile, so I can't see myself bringing the subject up that way. However, it seems to me that a good way to tackle the topic is via discussion about pornography and why it is wrong and harmful - not only does it objectify women, and involve exploitation etc etc, but it also portrays and normalises a very unreal image of sex and women - "...for example, son, there's nothing wrong with having pubes, but porn makes every woman in it look like a barbie doll down there - which is not how things are..."

gotthemoononastick Tue 05-Feb-13 11:11:05

sorry genuine question,remembering THE FULL SHAVE,for childbirth a hundred years ago...doesn't it itch madly ,regrowth etc.Saying that, they would have to put me in a leather strapped straitjacket for a HOT wax!!!!

MrsOakenshield Tue 05-Feb-13 11:14:35

I have only ever attempted to shave everything off once. It was awful. I have a lot of hair, growing very close to sensitive bits, and wielding a razor that close to my clitoris was pretty scary. And the grow-back was awful, stubbly, pus-filled boils, itchy. Even doing a normal bikini line for swimming the grow-back is bad. Trimming my pubes made them really uncomfortable too, blunt ends that caught on my knickers and made me itch. Vile. So, I won't be doing that again. But I really hope this isn't the fashion when DD grows up, because I would hate to think of her being pressurised into something that, if she's like me, will be so horrible, by stupid, vacuous people, be it her peers or others. Yes, of course I will teach her to be herself, etc etc, but when you're a vulnerable teen (aren't they all?) trying to fit in, I don't know how much she'll hear it.

Fairylea Tue 05-Feb-13 11:22:40

Re the regrowth ... I use swivel headed razors and shower gel and I've never had a problem, but I do shave most days so it never gets long enough to itch really!

I've never ever felt the need to do it for a man. My ex actually liked my pubic hair (!) And used to enjoy touching it... (tmi I know) and then ex after that wasn't bothered at all... and I had quite a bush!

I shaved it all off once as I was at home and had some teeny knickers I'd brought and didn't want anything on show as it were.. and I liked it so much I've kept it.

Strangely enough I always feel slightly embarrassed when I go for smears etc though as I'm not exactly young and I'd imagine they probably get a bit of a surprised that I'm completely bald down there.

I don't think men are as bothered by pubic hair as women think they are.

Saski Tue 05-Feb-13 11:25:57

Eh. I'm not so quick to say that waxing is part of the problem. I think it goes along with a lot of things that are part of the problem, but I feel extremely uncomfortable in a bikini with hair exposed.

Once you're over the pain of waxing, it feels great.

I don't know where you can logically stop if you take exception with waxing on principle. There are beauty standards that really normal, well-adjusted women submit to & possibly even enjoy (I do).

But I can see how it's part of a bigger, troubling pattern.

MaryPoppinsMassiveSack Tue 05-Feb-13 11:31:32

Me and the DH actually went to have a bikini / mankini wax together once. It was funny as hell. He is such a puss.

IfNotNowThenWhen Tue 05-Feb-13 11:42:26

Oh No!
I was nursing a quiet crush on composhat anyway, but now I know he is a hairy 70's looking man and is "pro muff" I am actually smitten! grin

IfNotNowThenWhen Tue 05-Feb-13 11:45:39

I don't think they are either fairylea. My last bf did shave his bits, which i don't really like, but he didn't seem to care that I don't. When I asked him if all girls do it now , he shrugged and said "some do.". Really didn't seem bothered.

socharlottet Tue 05-Feb-13 11:55:16

It's not new.I have heard that in olden times young men got their expectations of the female form from statues and were rather shocked to discover real girls went as smooth everywhere!

socharlottet Tue 05-Feb-13 11:58:23

Mosy young lads are happy to shag any girl, hairy or not!

MaryPoppinsMassiveSack Tue 05-Feb-13 12:10:31

Did any normally hirsuit women here do 'Fanuary', like the boy's version 'Movember'?

Oblomov Tue 05-Feb-13 12:20:05

I can not see that this is possible. Why would a young man or woman listen to them mum, when a generation has been like this for ages, all thier friends are, all the porn is, all the footballers and pop groups are like it.
I don't like it. I don't think its right. But what can we do?
I am more concerned about teenagers view of sex (which is of course linked to this), because of porn and all they see, as the norm, is a hard unemotional fuck.They seem to think that that is 'making love'.

Oblomov Tue 05-Feb-13 12:23:27

Fortunatley dh and I sleep naked, and we shower infront of the boys, so our 2 know that WE have pubic hair. The world may not, but our 2 know that we do.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 12:28:26

I don't understand why this is only a question for mums. What about dads?

Plus there's all kinds of everything that's normal - from hairy to nothing and everything in between. Why shouldn't a woman do whatever she feels happiest with?

picard476 Tue 05-Feb-13 12:30:58

I think its pretty disgusting that you feel it OK to ask personal questions of people whose job it is to be nice to you. I bet they resent serving you in the pub.

would you go round tescos and ask teenage girls on the deli counter their opinions on anal sex?

My theory is that, as mothers, we are supposed to sport pubic hair so that our boys know that there's nothing wrong with it, 11plus.

One thing occurs to me - are some people assuming that boys are really dim, and despite having pubic hair of their own, will still be surprised that other human beings have it?

bootsycollins Tue 05-Feb-13 12:36:32

Pro muff V pubist grin

specialsubject Tue 05-Feb-13 12:40:05

when boys start refusing sex because the female has pubic hair, then I'll think we have something worth worrying about.

actually I won't - because this will breed out those who think pubic hair is abnormal, so the problem will solve itself.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 12:41:40

Ok so when your son gets to be nearly sexually active, you say "over 'ere son and look at my hairy muff" ???

FFS that's ridiculous. The best thing to do is teach your children (sons and daughters) that there are lots of different looks in all body parts and all kinds of everything is normal.

I agree, 11plus. My pubic topiary is about my preferences, not even dh's, so there is no way I am going to grow a hairy mary (love that term), just to be a Good Example to my boys.

Though, as I said, I will have the discussion with them about porn, and the unreality of the women it portrays, if the subject arises.

MaryPoppinsMassiveSack Tue 05-Feb-13 12:43:52

Don't most girls like a trimmed man anyway? I'm not saying a dude's gotta be waxed to the max, but damn, a little tidying goes a long way.

LucilleBluth Tue 05-Feb-13 12:44:26

I'm still laughing that you think it's up to mums to teach their boys about pubic hair. I will teach my sons about lots of things but pubic hair isn't my domain, my 11 yo DS would run screaming and never come back if I said pubes to him and we talk about all sorts.

Already had that discussion. Also discussion about golden showers recently hmm Might add we don't sit them down and tell them about things - they ask question a propos things they see on television. I do think we need to be less squeamish as parents - most teenagers are far more open then I was at their age.

Startail Tue 05-Feb-13 12:48:13

I'm absolutely certain that just as boys don't care whether a girl is hairy, I doubt many girls do either.

How many people are, honestly, so promiscuous that this trivial rubbish really plays any part in their choice of sexual partner.

Startail Tue 05-Feb-13 12:50:00

It plays a part in lots of imitate teasing and bullying and peer pressure, as much within the sexes as between, but behind closed doors between couples who care about each other?

Startail Tue 05-Feb-13 12:50:18

Immature

Dahlen Tue 05-Feb-13 12:51:10

I find the whole things rather bemusing TBH. I think there is a link between porn and hair removal, but it's not that straightforward and owes more to the general 'pornification' of society than it does actual adult movies. Think back to the days of Baywatch, for example, where Pamela Anderson wore a one-piece so ridiculously high-sided that she'd have had to remove pretty much everything to avoid hairs sticking out the side.

We none of us make choices in a vacuum. We are all influenced by society and cultural norms. It's up to us to show some insight into those and then make informed choices, even if those choices are something we can argue against rationally but still prefer to do anyway. That's allowed, surely. For example, I think heels are bad for your posture, ruin your feet and play into the 'women as sex objects' argument, but I still wear them. I just acknowledge that I am influenced by my culture, and to some extent being influenced by culture is what being a member of society is all about. It's the same principle as to why we obey the laws of the land, after all.

Ultimately, each to their own. The complete removal of hair makes me feel a bit odd because it harks back to pre-puberty, which I find a bit disturbing. That said, while there's no way I'd shave or remove mine completely because it's so high-maintenance I don't have the time and it itches like hell growing back, I completely understand why people would want to trim theirs for reasons of personal hygiene and comfort.

bootsycollins Tue 05-Feb-13 12:52:01

Kids we need a serious talk about pubes grin

MaryPoppinsMassiveSack Tue 05-Feb-13 12:52:19

if you care so deeply about each other then making small changes to please each other is just nice.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 12:54:11

The same argument re porn means that should we teach our sons (only the mums mind, not the dads) that not everyone in real life has 34DDDDDEEEEEFFFFFGGGGGG boobs?

Come on!

Viviennemary Tue 05-Feb-13 12:59:44

I wouldn't dream of discussing this with DS. Anyway it's all a matter of what the individual wants. And personal preferences. No different to any other type of body hair. Whether it's chest, facial underarm or other. Do what you want.

WorriedMummy73 Tue 05-Feb-13 12:59:45

If porn is teaching young men that women should look a certain way, I'm surprised that young men aren't all ashamed of their own average sized winkies, in comparison to porn stars. Thinking of teaching my daughter that the correct response to 'eurgh, you have hair' is 'eurgh, you're not 9 inches!'.

Oh dear - I'd need a breast reduction then - unless a naturally-occuring 44F was deemed acceptable!

kimorama Tue 05-Feb-13 13:01:42

pubes should be taught in senior schools (or maybe not)

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 13:03:27

SDTG - pass some of yours my way please grin

but you know, really, if a bloke or a girl is that upset about a bit of hair, or the size of your boobs, or willy, or anything else to do with your anatomy - then really they aren't that into you and you should tell them to fuck off

kimorama Tue 05-Feb-13 13:05:18

or words to that effect llplus

<< checks boobage for detachability >>

Tailtwister Tue 05-Feb-13 13:07:08

Well, I do think that by the time my sons are having sex they'll know that pubic hair is 'natural' and won't need me to tell them that. Their own personal preference at the time won't be any of my business. Fashion changes over time, so God knows what it will be in a decade. What I will teach them is to respect their partner, whether that happens to be a man or a woman.

It's not up to the parents of sons OP, it's up to the parents of daughters to teach them to respect themselves and if they don't get the respect they deserve from a partner, to walk away.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 13:08:45

I haven't had that many sexual partners. I do a trim and a bit off the sides and the top. I have never ever had any complaints or even any comments. Where are all these men who care? Similarly, I've seen men with hairy chests, full soft hairy chests to none, and men's genitalia with hair trimmed, almost all off and fully natural. I don't give a toss. It doesn't matter. If the getting down and dirty is working like it should then it shouldn't.

(I have never watched porn though)

TheFallenNinja Tue 05-Feb-13 13:09:08

I guess it's just a fad and I suspect that the guys who claim that it is disgusting are essentially judging a book by its cover. I'm from the generation where I would reasonably expect nothing less than a bath mat down there but as this generation seems to believe that they invented sex (like many other generations) then I guess they want to put their own slant on it.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 13:10:59

Tail - I disagree. I would say it's not for mothers of daughters to teach them specifically anything. It's for all parents of children of any gender and sexual preferences to teach those children that all kinds of everything is normal in every body size, shape, form.

TheFallenNinja - I think every generation thinks they invented sex.

Tailtwister Tue 05-Feb-13 13:16:01

Sorry 11Plustrauma I thought that was what I had said...

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 13:17:42

It may be me not understanding Tailtwister I'm full of the cold and very grumpy.

Writehand Tue 05-Feb-13 13:18:44

Went to a party 2 weeks ago with a slightly pissed mate who accosted a bunch of rather good looking well-dressed young men, and dived straight in with the pubic hair question. What did they think?

Seems they don't want it. She said it was a fashion generated by porn, they said it didn't matter. Pubic hair was a no no.

She announced dramatically, hadn't they noticed that it was "Always a choice between bush or rash?" Said she'd never been able to get rid of hers without nasty consequences. Ingrown hairs, spots, etc. "Last time I had mine done I ended up a week later looking like a badly plucked turkey. With mange. And impetigo."

The boys were looking uncomfortable now. One of them asked "Can you not have no bush and no rash?"

No, she said. Perfect bald pussies were only found on porn actresses, who probably had theirs done on the day of filming and were heavily made up to conceal any rashes or bumps. And imo she's right. I certainly have never achieved no bush without a rash, and gave up long long ago.

The topic came up at home too. As I posted recently, I had a conversation with both my sons, separately, and brought up this body hair business. The bald porn look is now so widespread that boys expect girls to remove most or all of their pubic hair. I pointed out the porn link, and said it was a fashion and one of which, as a liberal old punk, I strongly disapproved. I asked them to reject the necessity for high maintenance pubic topiary, and told them that, in my view, it was oppressive to women -- telling girls that their natural appearance in that area was unacceptable. The boys took my rant quite well. They are used to me sounding off about political and ethical issues. smile

MaryPoppinsMassiveSack Tue 05-Feb-13 13:21:02

^ I honestly thought I'd invented masturbation

bubbles1231 Tue 05-Feb-13 13:37:14

I suppose the advantage of shaving it all off, is that you never have to see it go grey.
Now there's a discussion- Would you dye it to match the hair on your head, shave, or be a silver fox down below???

ModernToss Tue 05-Feb-13 13:45:03

I coincidentally had that conversation at home recently, Writehand.

My sons (22 and 20) both said that they didn't mind neatness, but that complete hairlessness struck them as slightly 'paedo', and that adult women have pubic hair.

While I would defend anyone's right to do whatever they like, I was cheered by this response.

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 05-Feb-13 14:00:33

I'm seeing the future of mil threads now.
Instead of disgruntled threads about "she dared to pick up my baby, it'll be, be she shaves her pubes, and my son never told me.
What can I do, I brought him up as a feminist"

I have never met shaved male genitals in real life. I can't help thinking I'd have to run screaming in horror - too too much flesh, all those pink lumps!! <shudder> But I tend to be one of those old-fashioned types that don't find genitals aesthetically pleasing to look at....

Writehand Tue 05-Feb-13 14:33:44

But I tend to be one of those old-fashioned types that don't find genitals aesthetically pleasing to look at...

I'd disagree with you there, Ormiriathomimus. I think male genitals are lovely. Very aesthetic -- sort of aerodynamic. But only when erect. When flaccid they just look kinda bobbly and vulnerable.

LOL writehand - like Concorde or the space shuttle ? grin I can accept they are perfectly well 'designed' for their task, and form should follow function, but I still think a light veil of hair is a minor improvement.

SonOfAradia Tue 05-Feb-13 15:02:16

I can't agree with the OP - like a lot others here I think that it should be up to both parents to let their children know that whatever they want to do regarding body hair is their own personal choice and it's OK to be not shaved/shaved/somewhere in between.

For myself, though, I have to say that lack of pubes on a woman is a real turn-off. And I mean a REAL turn-off.

Shallow of me? Perhaps, but then a lot of women on here say they wouldn't want to be with a bearded man, hate hairy chests etc, so it's pretty much the same. My disadvantage of course is that in the days before I settled down with lovely DW, I didn't get to know about it until it was Too Late.

Paiviaso Tue 05-Feb-13 15:46:54

This doesn't equate with what I've experienced in real life. I know several guys that shaved off their pubic hair to give it a try - and never again! because it is so uncomfortable as it grows back. I've never shaved off mine, and no male has ever commented on it either way. In fact, multiple boyfriends have commented they don't even care if I shave my legs. So I'm not encountering this apparent hair-hatred!

Uppatreecuppatea Tue 05-Feb-13 20:35:05

Golly, some of you are so judgey-pants!

OP here.

I'm not a weirdo - I talked to the guys in the pub because I live in a very rural area where we all go to the pub and the bar staff are part of our group of friends. We all sit at the bar and natter. It's not weird or aggressive. Hair removal is considered innocent conversation! Jeez, one of them is on Grindr (and a prolific waxer)!

Thank you writehand for confirming my belief.

I do think some of you are deluded to not believe that the proliferation of porn will not help form the views of young people on how bodies should look. You can't even google Moshi Monsters (on an unprotected computer) without links to porn popping up (pornhub.com - for example).

The fact is, porn 'companies' target children and watching porn alters children's thoughts about life, bodies and sexuality. You cannot possibly compare that to children seeing a statue in Rome.

When I grew up (70's) I might have found a girlie magazine. Nowadays, most 11 year olds have seen porn online.

And yes, both parents should educate their children. I thought that was implicit.

thebody Tue 05-Feb-13 20:41:24

I draw the line at chatting to my grown up in their 20s sons about pubes!!!!

I wax mine and I know my dds (12,14 ) shave legs and no idea about their pubes and frankly don't want to know.

This is a non issue and personal preference.

Like tatoos and piercings.

Uppatreecuppatea Tue 05-Feb-13 20:43:19

Isn't everything a 'non-issue', really? If it doesn't concern you, then it's not an issue.

Might as well obliterate MN from the universe.

thebody Tue 05-Feb-13 20:43:24

Oh and porn has always been there even in Victorian times and child orostitution was rife

The 70s when I grew up were very sexist and racist compared to now.

Not such good old days!!

thebody Tue 05-Feb-13 20:44:26

No incest, rape, domestic violence are issues chik.

Pubes no.

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 05-Feb-13 20:44:49

Golly, indeed Op.
Though you still won't persuade me to discuss pubes with ds or his girlfriend, that is so an invasion of privacy.
Neither will I discuss mine with him, God forbid.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 20:45:06

Well OP if you thought both parents should be involved why did you say MUMS in your OP?

Uppatreecuppatea Tue 05-Feb-13 20:46:43

Porn was not always around the way it is now. Don't you read MN for a start and all the problems that women have with their husband's watching porn.

What a stupid thing to say.

If it's not an issue for you, then why bother responding? Chick.

Cornycabernet Tue 05-Feb-13 20:49:35

I don't believe that any young man would actually be 'grossed out' by pubic hair in reality. It's just show boating in the same way that young men show off in front of their mates.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 20:50:43

Gosh you sound awfully angry. Are you having an experience in your RL that is making this issue particularly hurtful for you?

WorraLiberty Tue 05-Feb-13 20:52:23

I'm concerned about the objectification of Plumbers and short men with moustaches who mend washing machines.

Porn makes their jobs a living hell

< True Fact >

bootsycollins Tue 05-Feb-13 21:03:30

grin

Uppatree - you said that it is up to mums to teach their sons that pubic hair is ok on a woman - how does that imply it is a job for both parents?

If you have realised that it was a mistake to try to make it solely mums' responsibility, then have the guts to say so, don't try to rewrite history.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Tue 05-Feb-13 21:08:48

My 3 DSs see my 70s pubes every day - and teir dads. We go about naked quite happily at home - kids included.

Do I get a gold star!

Seriously, I hope none of my DSs partners will ever give a stuff what DSs think about their pubes and vice versa.

And yes, both parents should educate their children. I thought that was implicit.

Implicit? Really? Your stated that mothers should educate their boys.

What are the fathers doing and who is educating the girls?

thebody Tue 05-Feb-13 21:28:50

Uppatree, if you wish to chat to your sons about women's pubes then do so.

It is a non issue. I don't say porn was a non issue.that would be a stupid thing to say.

What women do with their pubes is nowt to do with porn, its fashion.

My mom shaved her pubes in the 60/70s,

It's not a new phenomena.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 21:30:57

I remember my mother PLUCKING her leg hairs. This would have been in the 70's

Writehand Tue 05-Feb-13 21:48:51

Uppatree's right that it's a porn thing. Tbbf, anyone who doesn't agree can't have encountered current net porn. Universal hairlessness is the norm, and has been for years now. That's what kids see when they see porn: no pubes.

As for it being a mum's thing, I only assume that I'll be the one to discuss it with my DSs because I really am a lone parent. Their dad's dead. Were my DH still around I would give good money to hear him hold forth on the topic. He was a very earthy man and could be extremely funny.

thebody Tue 05-Feb-13 21:58:04

I have watched porn, last night actually.

So called soft porn is usually hair free but you can find anything on the net from ' pregnant prostirutes' ' hairy minges' and 'granny sex'

Anything and everything is out there.

I suggest the posters who say its all hairless haven't really accessed many sites.

It's not new, I remember shaved pubes in pictures in the 70s.

As a teen we all shaved in the 80s...

It is nothing new..

Uppatreecuppatea Tue 05-Feb-13 22:04:56

thebody.... how is it you can't see that access to porn now is so different to the pre-2000s? We all know that.

Before, as teenagers in the 70's / 80's, it was 'girlie' magazines.

Now porn is mainstream. And yes, you do get specialiast porn. But you CANNOT argue that mainstream porn is hair-free and that this type of everyday porn doesn't affect the way men view women.

I'm really trying to see your point of view but i really don't think you can argue with the facts.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 22:09:21

But when are you going to answer the point that you said in your OP that it was for MUMS to teach their SONS?

I wondered that too, 11plus. I think that question is being ignored.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 22:16:21

I think so too SDTG.

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 05-Feb-13 22:18:14

Have you got sons Op?

Uppatreecuppatea Tue 05-Feb-13 22:18:43

I did answer it...I said mums, dads ...whatever. Read the whole thread and take notes next time. Is that really important? Sorry, I'm a single Mum and it was the first thing that came to my mind. So sue me.

So glad you are able to pick up the salient points.

thebody Tue 05-Feb-13 22:20:22

My argument is that shaved hairless pubes are NOT NEW.

Some women have always done it just as some didn't, same as today.

If your research is a few teens down the local who, quite frankly, must have thought you were either coming on to them or trying to be 'down with the kids' then your research is not really serious is it.

I have sons, I have no desire to discuss pubes with them. Why would I?

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 22:20:43

But what about teaching daughters and sons that they can do whatever they like with their pubic hair. And indeed any hair anywhere.

It really isn't a big issue. It's a fashion. In twenty years it'll be something different.

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 22:22:09

Oh and you still sound angry. Is there something going on in your life that is making this a particularly resonant argument for you?

11Plustrauma Tue 05-Feb-13 22:23:19

What you said was

"And yes, both parents should educate their children. I thought that was implicit."

But it wasn't implicit in your post - your OP specifically said MUMS and BOYS

WorraLiberty Tue 05-Feb-13 22:32:56

But look, even if this fashion/phase has come about due to porn, it doesn't change anything does it?

It doesn't change the fact that teenage girls and boys sometimes feel under pressure to copy their peers and sometimes they don't.

It doesn't change the fact that personal preference is just that - personal preference.

Where the fashion originated from doesn't matter any more...the fact is it's here and that's that.

Just like every other fashion/phase it'll change to something else in the future.

Uppatree - where did you say 'mums, dads, whatever' - because it certainly wasn't in your first post, nor did I see it (either directly or implicitly) in any of your posts yesterday, or up to 8.35pm today.

And your title said clearly and unequivocally that this was a responsibility for mums, not parents. So don't get shirty with us because you made a mistake yesterday. Have the guts to say 'I made a mistake, I should have said parents'.

Incidentally, I did raise this subject, in an oblique way, with ds2 and ds3 today, and both said that they wouldn't judge a woman on her appearance. I mentioned porn and the lack of body hair on the women involved, and how this is not normal, and they both scarpered.

I did answer it...I said mums, dads ...whatever. Read the whole thread and take notes next time

I have read it, thanks. No need to take notes. You said no such thing. It really makes it rather difficult to take anything you say seriously.

I am also a single mother and I would never assume it is a mothers job to do everything.

WandaDoff Tue 05-Feb-13 22:42:40

Why so aggressive OP?

We were all having a nice little debate there.

I made DS1s father talk to him about how what you see in porn is not an accurate representation of real life. I intend to tell my daughter that she should not feel pressured into waxing everywhere. Given I shave my legs and underarms I suspect I will be giving out mixed messages though.

WorraLiberty Tue 05-Feb-13 22:44:29

The thing is if you watch porn, you'll see that it's not just a lack of hair on the women involved.

It's very much a lack of hair on the men too.

This is why I don't understand why this sort of discussion is so often directed at the lack of female hair...when the lack of male hair is so prevalent as well.

Then again I can only assume that anyone anti porn isn't really going to be that knowledgeable about porn films and so they assume it's mainly a female thing.

thebody Tue 05-Feb-13 22:48:22

Yes worra agree with that.

It's fashion op, its choice for both sexes and its not important or a feminist issue.

KatoPotato Tue 05-Feb-13 22:49:39

Baldy bollocks... <shudder>

WorraLiberty Tue 05-Feb-13 22:52:48

I can't remember the last time I saw hairy bollocks or a hairy back/chest in a porn film!

It must have been years ago?

KatoPotato Tue 05-Feb-13 22:57:36

I just remember my sister and I finding my pa's pornies and finding the big hairy pies HILarious! It's all HD skinless sausages now!

FlorriesDragons Tue 05-Feb-13 22:57:58

It's a fashion. Yes, brought about by the porn industry but fashions are now coming out of the page 3 girl, hair extensions and fake tan look and returning to more natural styles and I think things like this will eventually follow suit. By the time my boys are teenagers, they'll all have plaits or comedy moustaches or something in their pants instead I imagine.

thebody Tue 05-Feb-13 23:26:42

Ron Dennis is hairy! He's the short one with the huge cock. Vile littke prat but hairy.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 06-Feb-13 00:47:51

Erm, I think you mean Ron Jeremy. Formula One's Ron Dennis is a quite different person!

I hate all pubic hair except my own and dear god it's a bush and a half.

Now I love a hairy chest, the hairier the better, apart from back hair, that's just weird.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 06-Feb-13 02:32:45

Back hair is not weird for the people who grow it. How do you feel about nipple hair in women?

I know I'm only joking, my ex had quite a bit of back hair but I never would have asked him to get rid of it , it was part of him but I just didn't like it all that much.

Nipple hair, I've got that, I shave them off because they catch in my bra

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 06-Feb-13 03:30:08

I pluck mine, and don't wear a bra. (Too small to matter.) Glad I'm not the only one!

11Plustrauma Wed 06-Feb-13 07:33:50

I don't have nipple hair <smug>. I also am so small of nork that I often don't wear a bra.

thebody Wed 06-Feb-13 07:50:38

Omg ha ha yes sorry Wrong Ron, half asleep last night and disturbing dreams of bushes!! Dam this thread..

Wishihadabs Wed 06-Feb-13 08:00:25

Sorry I haven't read all 11pages but don't boys (not teenage but before see their mothers naked). Therefore know what women look like. I know I say my Dad long before any porn.

QuinionsRainbow Wed 06-Feb-13 16:06:35

We tend to keep ours trimmed - the operative word being KEEP! DH and I tried the bare look when we were first married, but weren't impressed with the outcome and didn't repeat the experience once it had all grown back. So far, DDs haven't tried, and as we're fairly open about nudity, DS has had extensive exposure to female pubes over the years.

ihearsounds Wed 06-Feb-13 16:37:28

I have been shaving for over 20 years. Strangely I started shaving before I watched my first porn. I shaved my muff after hearing conversations about child birth and hygiene lol. I liked the feeling of a trimmed muff. Having the muff untrimmed feels weird. Also I find having sex nicer with a trimmed muff. Hate the later stages pf pregnancy before I couldnt reach to shave lol.

As for porn influencing bodies. Erm, if anything surely it highlights blokes own inadequecies. The blokes walking around with smaller cocks. Never mind the blokes on pornos can keep it up for hours, giving the females screaming orgasm after screaming orgasm. Not all blokes on rl can achieve this. If anything we (well not me wink ) should be peeved becuase we are gotting the raw end of the deal. (ooh hears a thought. Maybe the 50 shades lovers are porn watchers with a small cocked man, over in a couple of minutes, finishing themselves off)..

Anyway, I teach my children. their bodies their choice. If they dont want to do something, unless genuine live saving, that they shouldnt feel pressured into doing anything.. Seems to work. Eldest ds now has piercing, long hair and a beard dispite his gf not liking it lol. Dd1 saving up for tattoo's and dyes her hair. Neither dd shaves their legs.

socharlottet Wed 06-Feb-13 21:19:43

NIPPLE HAIR !!!!! Can women have nipple hair???

countrykitten Wed 06-Feb-13 21:26:14

WTF business is it of anyone else if I keep my fanny trimmed and neat (not bald but close to)? Getting a bit pissed off being told that I am stupid and have been manipulated by men and porn to do this. Fwiw I have never let my pubic hair fully grow as I started trimming as a young teenager - about the same time that I started to shave my legs and under my arms. So what? Shoot me. And this was over 20 years ago when porn was not readily available. Some women and stupid and patronising and need to get a grip.

One post made me laugh - the poster was weeping in to her porridge that 'real feminism' is dying and then went on to say that she was worried about the 'young ladies' of today. That did give me a giggle.

And as for the OIP - sexist stupid drivel.

countrykitten Wed 06-Feb-13 21:26:31

That would be OP not OIP!

RedJeans Wed 06-Feb-13 21:37:59

Am another one who started shaving my pubic hair before I'd ever seen any glimpse of porn or had a boyfriend to influence me! no idea really why I decided to do it other than just not liking it! Definitely wasn't told to by anybody or pressured, I made my own choice

So I don't think the current trend is completely to do with porn, I think people are perhaps more willing to change their bodies then before maybe, or just that we're more aware of what people do with their pubes than before! A lot must be down to personal preference

Writehand Wed 06-Feb-13 22:00:24

Countrykitten, your own preferences are your own preferences and I, at least, am not getting at you. Women have always trimmed their bushes and done as they wished.

However it does appear to be true that among the very young - under 21? -- it's becoming more than an expectation -- a demand -- that all hair be removed. I've heard boys call pubic hair of any sort on girls disgusting. That's what worries me.

Darkesteyes Wed 06-Feb-13 22:14:26

Thing is Writehand some of those girls may think Fuck it. And decide to date older guys instead.

countrykitten Wed 06-Feb-13 22:26:53

I am a teacher around teenagers day in and day out and have never heard anything like this from boys or girls. I wonder how true all of this actually is....?

WorraLiberty Wed 06-Feb-13 22:32:30

A demand? Really?

Where do you get your information from?

I've heard boys call pubic hair of any sort on girls disgusting. That's what worries me.

What worries me (well, bemuses me really) is the amount of people who don't seem to 'get' that it's not just a 'boy' dislike of pubic hair on girls.

It's very much a 2 way thing and just as many girls are recoiling from male pubic hair, chest hair, back hair and facial hair (in some cases).

When was the last time you saw a hairy chested/backed male model? Most of them don't even have armpit hair nowadays.

countrykitten Wed 06-Feb-13 22:35:36

Agreed worraliberty.

Writehand Wed 06-Feb-13 23:09:15

I have 2 teenage DSs and, for various reasons, I know loads more. I posted a long thing about porn on another thread, and some of my information comes from that issue, which affected one of DSs big time. You may well be right that girls feel the same about boys having body hair, Countrykitten, as all my information comes from boys, but what bothers me is the whole "disgust" thing about body hair. Seems so unrealistic and so prissy. Might as well complain that they urinate.

Reminds me of John Ruskin, the Victorian art critic, who refused to consummate his marriage on the grounds of revulsion, believed to be at his bride's pubic hair. Seems he had only ever seen classical marble nudes and saw her natural state as repulsive.

N.B. Briefly considered, but discarded, asking my DS2s g'friend what she thinks about male body hair. She'd be mortified, sweet shy girl!!

ComposHat Thu 07-Feb-13 01:05:32

It's very much a 2 way thing and just as many girls are recoiling from male pubic hair, chest hair, back hair and facial hair

I am very glad that I'm in my mid 30s and am in a long term relationship. If I had to remove my luxuriant body hair, I'd never actually get out of the salon to meet anyone. The excess hair would be enough to keep Wogan, Bruce Forsyth and Tony Blackburn in wigs for decades to come.

Darkesteyes Fri 08-Feb-13 01:58:25

Its a different thing in this link but the same kind of pressure. Im willing to bet that there arent many women/girls putting this kind of pressure on their partners and treating them like this.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2274963/Josie-Gibsons-plumber-fiance-Luke-Sanwo-admits-wants-BB-star-boob-job.html#axzz2KGdfeIrJ

Saski Fri 08-Feb-13 16:17:46

I believe you are referring to me weeping in my porridge, countrykitten, re: post-feminism - but not because of waxing. I don't know how anyone can dispute that feminism has taken a major nose dive.

Anyway, carry on.

biff23 Fri 08-Feb-13 19:52:29

Worriedmummy73 that has made me laugh sooooooo much, couldn't agree more. I remember being really scared about playing certain music backwards! Justin
Beiber lol.

On a serious ish note, I like mine pretty much gone am I weird? Who cares, it works for me and at the age of 45 I stopped worrying about people's opinions of my pubes a long time ago smile

FestiveFrollockingFrenzy Fri 08-Feb-13 19:54:38

Its not normal to have any particular pubic hair style. Its personal choice.

maleview70 Fri 08-Feb-13 19:56:10

Bring back 70's and 80's porn and you have your solution!

whois Fri 08-Feb-13 20:47:59

I like mine in the slightly fluffy soft new growth after a full wax. Does that make me a slave to porn, men and the sexist society? Oh well.

With hair removal more acceptable and less painful than ever before (hello lycon!!!) no wonder more women and men do something to their public hair.

EmmaThorn Thu 07-Mar-13 09:56:49

I've taught my kids to respect everyone - and they know that friends and relationships (when they have them) are based on human connection and emotional interaction in addition to physical characteristics. I hope my kids therefore realise that its not all about physical appearance.

rottentomatoes Thu 07-Mar-13 10:23:28

YANBU

The point is if a women truly chooses to have all her pubes waxed off then fine but if she doesn't she shouldn't be ridiculed.

The OP has not said that people should never wax she has said that boys should not see women who don't as gross.

The argument that we shave arm pits and legs so why not pubes is ridiculous. Firstly because we only shave arm pits etc because society deems it necessary. Men, who sweat more than women, don't shave for hygiene reasons women do because it's the norm, not a true choice. Just because we have an enforced society norm on shaving certain parts of the body should mean we move to a new society norm to shave more bloody areas.

As I said, if people want to that's fine but boys should not generally think it abnormal if girls don't and visa versa.

countrykitten Thu 07-Mar-13 10:54:28

Saski if you are the poster who used the horribly patronising phrase 'young ladies' then yes, I am talking about you.

whimsicalmess Thu 07-Mar-13 12:21:55

Unless their own mothers are porn stars, they aren't really to blame are they?

In this case its mainly media. society etc that needs to sort itself out!

ukatlast Thu 07-Mar-13 13:33:41

In a word, yes. If boys have looked at stuff on the internet, they don't know what normal is. Do they think all girls should have boob jobs too so they look the same as the pictures?
Many men I know are sufficiently hirsute for body shaving to be impossible. My own DH has got hairier and hairier over the years. This is normal. Do not be afraid to say so.
Life is too short to be removing body hair wholesale with the exception of underarm hair in women (German women used to often leave these and not shave it off) and those middle-aged facial hairs.

ubik Thu 07-Mar-13 17:27:04

I don't really care if my daughters shave their bits ...as long as they don't leave hairs in the bath.

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