to think my cousin is being a totally selfish cow

(84 Posts)
MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:11:50

bit if a back story my uncle was diagnosed with terminal cancer about 6 months ago, and they really dont know how long he has to live etc. (probably about another year at best)

his daughter over christmas go engaged, I thought how lovely she will make it soon so her dad can walk her down the isle even if its a small wedding.

but no she is going to disney to get married in two years ensuring her dad wont be there, as he wont be able to fly even if he is still alive etc.

aibu to think this is really. selfish, denying a dying man of this.

Euphemia Mon 04-Feb-13 07:12:41

I agree with you. sad

IceNoSlice Mon 04-Feb-13 07:13:33

You can think what you like. But don't say or do anything, please. It is really not your place.

BeckAndCall Mon 04-Feb-13 07:16:02

Yes, I agree. I'd have given anything for my dad to give me away. We got engaged a few weeks before he died, partly then so that he could know I would be settled and taken care of. He couldn't have coped with a wedding by that stage, but I'm sure he was more content knowing my DH would be there for me.

So yes, if your cousin has time ( and they may not) I would have thought it would be better to do it sooner. Ok if he's not going to be well enough it's a different matter but to then talk about a Disney wedding is just crass.

HollyBerryBush Mon 04-Feb-13 07:16:03

Perhaps they aren't "ready" to get married yet.

Perhaps there are a lot of other things being played out you don't know about.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:16:07

I wouldn't, she is a big girl and should realise this herself.

the fact I think a disney wedding is beyond tacky is irrelevant. its just selfish.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:16:35

why get engaged then?

HollyBerryBush Mon 04-Feb-13 07:16:40

Perhaps she doesnt want a church wedding, so no aisle involved

Cherriesarelovely Mon 04-Feb-13 07:16:47

It does seem like that. The only thing I can think of is that maybe your uncle knew she really wanted to do this and they have talked about it. Don't say anything though, they have enough to deal with.

I agree with you too but also agree don't do or say anything.

Fwiw my dad did a great job of walking me down the aisle but I doubt it would've been on his bucket list..

Seems strange that the daughters first thought isn't to make it so her dad can be there. Maybe they have discussed it between them already?

Trazzletoes Mon 04-Feb-13 07:22:07

Presumably she is well aware that her dad isn't going to be there.

I don't see why she should feel forced to marry at a time and place of someone else's convenience. Yes, most people would choose to have the wedding soon and local, but it's her decision and none of your business.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:22:09

maybe, they have talked about it.

theres lots of stuff at the moment, that the family I doing that I find leaves a bitter taste.

Finallygotaroundtoit Mon 04-Feb-13 07:22:12

She may be unable to accept her dad diagnosis and think that he will be there.

She may also have a misguided hope that her wedding will give him something to aim for

Say nothing

DreamingOfTheMaldives Mon 04-Feb-13 07:23:01

Bloody hell, I cancelled our wedding abroad 3 months before the she big day and rearranged it in the UK when if became apparent that my terminally ill Dad wouldn't be able to come.

The thought of flying off with friends and family but without Dad was heartbreaking.

Maybe she will change her mind

theoriginalandbestrookie Mon 04-Feb-13 07:24:30

How do you know she hasn't discussed it with him? How do you know it is a dream of his?

Maybe she just isn't ready to get married in the next six months. Maybe she wants to spend the last year of his life concentrating on being there for him rather than creating a rushed wedding. Maybe she is doing it in Disney because it will be a new beginning rather than a reminder of the Dad she is going to lose.

Or maybe she is selfish. We don't know and nor do you.

StickEmUp Mon 04-Feb-13 07:26:14

Maybe her dad has said he was too ill to handle a wedding amd told her it was okay! He might have suggested it?
Honestly, he really might be in on this.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:27:13

Im not saying a thing,

ill seethe in silence grin

ClaudiaSchiffer Mon 04-Feb-13 07:29:12

Hasn't her mum had a little word?

Assuming that the family are still together of course and they're able to talk to each other.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:32:58

I dont know if she has spoken to her dad or not. ill find out probably in due course.

if it was me I would get married soon, so my dad coukd be there and get it blessed At Disney getting the best of both worlds.

AntsMarching Mon 04-Feb-13 07:33:08

It could be she wants to spend the time she has left with her dad and not focusing on a wedding. It could also be that she wants to have something to look forward to once her dad is no longer around.

There is no way to know what is going on in her head. It's very unfair to judge, everyone handles grief differently.

nefertarii Mon 04-Feb-13 07:33:37

Why seething? What actually does it have to do with you?

She is getting married when and how she wants to. Which I am sure her dad would prefer. I used to be a wedding planner. And have done several weddings that have been brought forward due to terminal illness and while they are wonderful days there is usually a veil of saddness over it.

Maybe you uncle has told her he doesn't want. Maybe she has chosen Disney as she can't face getting married here knowing her dad won't be there.

my friend got married abroad just her and her dh because she couldn't face getting Madrid in the UK without her dad.

In short there is a lot you don't know. So stop judging her during an extremely difficult time.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:33:46

he mum thinks is ok from what I can tell.

it seems bonkers to me.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:34:50

it has nothing to do with me really.

thats what the grin was for.

nefertarii Mon 04-Feb-13 07:34:52

You can't get a marriage blessed at Disney. Its not a religious ceremony at Disney. Its a civil ceremony.

poachedeggs Mon 04-Feb-13 07:37:29

I can't imagine this hadn't crossed her mind, or been discussed.

We got married because MIL was diagnosed with terminal cancer. It's one of those things you start to think about all of a sudden. I'm sure the subject will have been talked over within the family.

Perhaps they'd been planning an intimate family wedding but decided to take the pressure off by canceling it so they can enjoy what time they have left without stressing. Then just getting away from everything at a later date. Who knows? It's not fair to assume the worst just because we'd do it differently.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:38:22

just checked you can have your vows renewed at disney. here

CailinDana Mon 04-Feb-13 07:44:06

Does she get on with her dad? A friend of mine got engaged a week after her father was diagnosed as terminal simply because she knew then that he wouldn't be at the wedding. Up till then she wouldn't do it because she wouldn't have been able to invite her mother without him. He was a utter dickhead. I'm not saying your uncle is like that but there could be something going on behind the scenes that you don't know about. My friend got a terrible time from one particular workmate about the fact that she wasn't marrying in a rush to include her father and it got so bad that in the end she showed said workmate the scars on her back from where her father had beaten her with a belt. That shut her up but my poor friend shouldn't have had to do that.

My advice is keep your big fat sticky beak out of it.

There could be lots of reasons. Maybe she doesn't want to be 'given away' and would like to spare her dad's feelings by avoiding the issue, maybe they need time to save up, maybe a Disney wedding is what she has always dreamed of and she doesn't want to have a wedding she's unhappy with.

It's their wedding so I think they get to choose.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:46:19

no my uncle is lovely, they are really close.

thats why its seems odd.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 07:47:15

its not in it I haven't said anything.

CailinDana Mon 04-Feb-13 07:48:05

If it seems odd then chances are there is a reason that you're not entitled to know.

nefertarii Mon 04-Feb-13 07:52:52

That's not a blessing.

thistlelicker Mon 04-Feb-13 07:53:39

If u know its nothin to do with u then why have u created thread? I agree with others... Obs she is aware her dad won't be around when she may get married, maybe Disney is something That was important as a child that was special to her and her dad! Memories!! Let her and her family spend their time with him in a way they choose and support her descision!

nefertarii Mon 04-Feb-13 07:56:10

I think its really awful you think she is a selfish cow, when you actually know very little about the situation.

Just because you would do things a certain way doesn't mean she should it that its right for her. Ot even right for your uncle. leave them alone.

Ot must be hard enough as it is.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 08:01:32

Why should she change the wedding she and her partner want because of something awful that is already happening to her?

Isn't it bad enough that she is losing her Dad? Why do you want her to lose her dream wedding too?

I'm surprised at how many people agree she is being selfish. Usually people say that a couple should have the wedding they want and that it's nothing to do with parents or anyone else. Why does that change because of cancer? Doesn't cancer have enough effect without taking away people's weddings as well?

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 08:04:59

if it was me I would want to do this for my dad.

its about being married not the big fancy day isn't it. youll be married for the rest of your life (hopefully) family is a big part of that for me.

that why I said it.

CailinDana Mon 04-Feb-13 08:10:29

She's not you. God I'm glad I live hundreds of miles away from my family, they were exactly the same as you, judging everything thinking they knew better when they didn't have a clue.

Trazzletoes Mon 04-Feb-13 08:10:35

But it's not you, is it.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 04-Feb-13 08:16:38

It's not you, it's her and her fiancé.

Do you think there's a chance that she hadn't accepted that she's actually going to lose him yet, so she isn't considering plans with a view to him no longer being around?

nefertarii Mon 04-Feb-13 08:17:50

You don't know her dad wants her to

I think you're being terribly judgy about someone who's in the process of losing her dad. I think the decent thing to do is think, well I don't know what's really going on so I'm not going to judge. Instead you are seething.

FWIW if I were dying and my son were engaged, I'd be encouraging him to have a big happy do after I was gone, so everyone could have a happy day and I could smile down from above. That's just my personal preference, if others do differently, that's fine too. My point is, you seem to think there is only one right thing to do, therefore your cousin is wrong. But it's not that simple.

Exactly, its about being married. Maybe they aren't ready for marriage quite yet. Its a huge commitment and shouldn't be rushed into. I would hate my kids to rush into something so important out of loyalty to me.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 09:02:01

if your not ready to be married dont get engaged then.

its a promise to be married.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 09:03:13

clouds I think you may be right, because he seems relatively ok atm, she might be thinking he will be there.

mrsjay Mon 04-Feb-13 09:04:26

maybe she is in denial about her dads illness and trying to carry on as normal ? i do undestand what you mean though some people can be unrealistic about serious illness, (and a selfish) yanbu

A promise to be married at some point when you are ready, not when a judgemental cousin decides you should get married.

nefertarii Mon 04-Feb-13 09:10:44

if your not ready to be married dont get engaged then.

Really? We don't live in a world where you gt engaged one day and married the next.

Yabu. Stop judging her decisions when you actually don't know what's going on.

FeckOffCup Mon 04-Feb-13 09:13:13

Fair enough if it was you you would do it for your dad but your cousin is allowed to have another opinion, I also don't agree with the statement that you shouldn't get engaged unless you plan to marry soon, nothing wrong with people having as long an engagement as they want. I feel for your cousin it must be a hard decision whether to rush a wedding so that an ill person can be there or delay it to concentrate on that person for their last few months, I don't think either one is selfish.

Trills Mon 04-Feb-13 09:16:32

^if your not ready to be married dont get engaged then.

its a promise to be married.^

A promise to get married in the future. There's no time limit on it.

RuleBritannia Mon 04-Feb-13 09:18:33

I'm not putting forward an opinion about when the OP's cousin should get married. That's the business of only the bride and groom. It would be nice fopr the father and mother if they married before the father died but it's up to them. The mother is going through hell at the moment, looking after the father. She will be going through hell after he dies so when is the right time for them to be married? Leave it to them. It's their business.

I have a cousin at the moment who has just been widowed and she is having to deal with people who are squabbling over who goes in the funeral saloon with her. What are people like at times like these?!!

Maybe she pushed forward the engagement to please her father, now he knows who she will spend her life with and that there will be someone to take care of her, etc.

I mean, what's a wedding? It's one day. It's the relationship that's important.

I think your view of marriage is a bit old-school tbh. Not everyone dreams of a church wedding with a father walking them down the aisle, people do have long engagements nowadays.

foslady Mon 04-Feb-13 09:43:48

yy to dreaming - maybe it's enough for her dad just to know what her future will be and he doesn't want to be responsible for them marrying before they are ready. He knows her plans and by marrying abroad it won't drag up the 'he wasn't there to walk me down our church aisle'......have you thought this could be your uncles wishes?

LessMissAbs Mon 04-Feb-13 09:44:39

yabu. Perhaps she doesn't want him stressed, perhaps she isn't totally certain about getting married, perhaps she can't afford it yet, perhaps she is worried he will insist on getting involved in the planning and the whole stress of the occasion will bring on his premature death or make him so I'll.

I cannot fathom why you are sticking your nose in. This family probably have enough to cope with with this mans current treatment regime and planning for the future, and quite possibly see planning their own wedding as selfish. People cope with stress differently and yabu totally fir judging them.its a horiffic situation for them to be in.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 09:46:27

I have not said a word to her or the family,

how is that sticking my nose in, she doesn't use mn,

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 09:49:21

I can judge all I like, as long as I dont open my mouth.

That's a good point Less, if she did push forward the wedding she might have other relatives saying, why is she putting her poor father through all that stress. Whatever she does she will have people judging her, how awful.

TheCatIsEatingIt Mon 04-Feb-13 09:53:41

My dad died of cancer three years ago. Luckily, I was single at the time, so weddings weren't an issue. Dad was a very proud man, his appearance was always immaculate, and he was an excellent speaker; he'd have done the best Father of the Bride speech ever.

I got married last year. It was a long, tiring day, and my mum was at the centre of a crowd all day. She found it emotionally tiring as well as physically tiring. Dad, ill, couldn't have coped with it. He lost most of his hair, and a lot of weight; he went from being a big, imposing man to being very thin and looking ill. He would have been terribly embarrassed to be the centre of attention in that condition, and would have been physically unable to cope with the day. Much of his confidence was a construct; he wouldn't have had the energy to make himself be confident all day. He would have done me proud, and I so wish he had been able to give me away, but I'm glad we didn't have to make the decision at the time.

I think I would have had a very small wedding with Dad there, I couldn't have planned it knowing he wouldn't be there, but it would have been so hard.

Benby Mon 04-Feb-13 10:02:06

Hi girls,
Just as another look at it. My dad is dead 12 years now. I'm married 5 years and have 2 dd's if my father was still alive I would not be married and I certainly would not have children. My dad abused me once when I was about 8 but he never stopped trying to do it again. He would often grab me while messing about but I knew what he was trying to do. Anyway he was an alcoholic as well and a typical street angel house devil. If my father was still alive I would not have got married as I would have to have him at the wedding and giving me away and that wouldn't have happened and I would never have children around him either.
No one in our extended family knew about what my father done to me and even my mother and brother conviently forgot when he got sick and died he suddenly became a saint.
My point is even as family no one ever knows what goes on behind closed doors and your cousin obviously has her reasons just as I would have had mine.

Chunderella Mon 04-Feb-13 10:07:33

Dreaming that was my thought too. They might have got engaged sooner than they otherwise would've done, in order to please her dad.

I don't agree with you OP, but I don't think you're BU necessarily. Because I wonder if the wedding is really what you're upset about. Could it be that you're very angry about your uncle being ill and you're venting your anger elsewhere? It sounds like you're very fond of him. It must be hard to be told you'll lose a beloved uncle soon.

BreconBeBuggered Mon 04-Feb-13 10:17:50

Cancer doesn't always stick to a timetable. DH and I both had uncles who lived on for years longer than expected with a terminal diagnosis. My own father, sadly, died within a few weeks of getting his. Perhaps your uncle simply doesn't want this big day in his daughter's life to be scheduled around his death?

Oh, and don't be too sure your cousin isn't on MN. Nobody outside my household knows I'm here.

hippo123 Mon 04-Feb-13 10:31:51

YABU, nothing to do with you, maybe getting married at Disney is a life long dream of hers? Maybe your uncle is 100% behind it? My dad never came to my wedding, we get on fine. Wasn't a big deal to me that he wasn't there, maybe its not to your cousin either? Wedding are a very personal thing.

whiteflame Mon 04-Feb-13 10:45:23

On balance I think you can't comment because you don't know what the whole story is. I think it is unusual that she has chosen to go overseas rather than have her DF there, but maybe she (or her DF) hate the thought of a wedding.

YABU about giving her away. She isn't a possession and has every right not to want to engage in this horrible tradition.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 10:58:16

brecon, imagine this he lives for the time they will be aranging this, and he wouldn't be able to go because of the flight etc.

I couldn't do that ever.

biscuit white flame. if you dont like the traditions that come with getting married dont get married.

whiteflame Mon 04-Feb-13 11:16:04

What rubbish MrsBucket. These traditions do not 'come with' marriage - I'm married, and was not given away. Did you/would you also promise to obey your DH? You certainly do not have to take old, incredibly sexist traditions to have the legal protection of marriage.

The sooner women aren't made to feel bad for denying their dad the opportunity to give them away, the sooner this type of crap will stop.

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 11:19:53

no we had our own vows, but I have a very traditional marriage, and Im not a feminist,

but that has nothing to do with my original post.

nefertarii Mon 04-Feb-13 11:22:15

You are missing the point op.

Because you think you would do something one way, doesn't mean your cousin is a 'selfish cow' for not doing it your way.

You actually don't know what you would 100% do as you have never been in the exact situation. You don't want to acknowledge that her father possibly doesn't want the wedding to be based around him dying.

You say you could never do it? What about the wishes of the dying relative. Should your cousin get married if she doesn't want to (right now) and her dad does not want her to? Just because you think its the right thing?

You are right though. You can judge all you want. But thinking these horrible things about her makes you quite an unpleasant person, regardless of if you speak up or not.

trustissues75 Mon 04-Feb-13 11:23:20

It seems a little unfair - but how much do you know of the family dynamic? She could be being a selfish girl or there could be other stuff going on that you're not privy to. I would feel the same as you - but it's not your place to say anything at all.

gordyslovesheep Mon 04-Feb-13 11:23:34

Maybe she felt by rushing into a wedding she was putting a very small Timetable on the remainder of her fathers life ...but I am sure its between her and her dad x

whiteflame Mon 04-Feb-13 11:23:41

It has everything to do with your first post.

Traditionally women promised to obey their DH as part of the vows. You chose not to, therefore by your own reasoning you should not have got married if you don't like the traditions that come with getting married.

Times change, move with them or be left behind.

A Disney wedding?

hippo123 Mon 04-Feb-13 11:27:50

*'if you don't like the traditions that come with geting married don't get married' *what a stupid thing to say, I'm quite shocked. Traditions are just traditions, nothing to say you have to do them and by not doing them 'being given away, wearing a wedding ring, changing your surname etc' doesn't mean that you shouldn't get married or a couples marriage means anything less than another couple who did follow the 'traditions'

hippo123 Mon 04-Feb-13 11:29:18

and as whiteflame has pointed out you didn't follow the 'tradition' of 'obeying' so are hardly one to talk!

whiteflame Mon 04-Feb-13 11:29:32

You were berating your cousin for denying her DF the opportunity to give her away. I might have agreed with you on denying the opportunity to see her get married, but certainly not about the giving away. Her daughters, granddaughters and great granddaughters certainly won't think her a selfish cow for that reason!

MrsBucketxx Mon 04-Feb-13 11:30:59

yes a disney wedding in Florida.

I totally disagree with you.

Her plans to marry in two years time at Disney, rather than hurry up a wedding so that a dying man can struggle into a suit and walk her down the isle is not selfish at all. It is common sense. Especially if they are close.

Her father is dying.

A wedding is just a day, what matters is their relationship and marriage, not the wedding, seems to me that your cousin is mature enough to understand this. I bet her dad is mature enough to see this.

Maybe she does not want to combine the wedding with her dying dad, and in years to come look back at her wedding with sorrow?

And what if he were to die before the wedding if they planned for him to give her a day, that would certainly marr the day!

Under the circumstances, a fun Disney wedding would be just the trick to keep my spirits up. grin

Frankly I think you're more and more unreasonable with every post

holidaysarenice Mon 04-Feb-13 22:12:18

actually i think yabu, she might be finding it hard to have the thought of thinking about a wedding with her dad walking her down the aisle. then her dad might die and she wouldnt have that.

why not give her some support instead of bitching about her.

if he has 'at best a year' then there is no way he will be there either way and that is a lot easier for a bride than one who had her heart set on something perhaps in the church where he may be buried from.

Tortington Mon 04-Feb-13 22:19:07

she might not want her wedding day to be forever a reminder of her dead dad

SconeRhymesWithGone Tue 05-Feb-13 00:27:18

FWIW, I am pretty sure that you can have a religious ceremony wedding at Disney, if the particular religion/denomination allows it (not all do). A blessing of a previous marriage is not very common in the US; but a vow renewal ceremony is very close and could probably be adapted. Also Florida, like all US states, does not have the same sharp delineation between a civil and religious marriage as in some other countries, and many denominations will allow a ceremony outside the church and provide a minister.

MechanicalTheatre Tue 05-Feb-13 00:35:54

I would not want to organise a wedding in the space of a year, praying the whole time that my dying father would make it.

What happens if he doesn't? Do they go ahead? Do they cancel?

Let people do their own thing and your life will be far less complicated.

SirIronBottom Tue 05-Feb-13 02:07:36

For all we know he could have been very insistent indeed about not wanting to be a burden.

Disney wedding = hmm, though. (Any big wedding = hmm).

feministefatale Tue 05-Feb-13 03:50:26

Maybe she doesn't want him there. Maybe she isn't ready if she is waiting two years It's not really your business.

feministefatale Tue 05-Feb-13 03:55:45

Actually just remembered you slagged your cousin off on another thread already regarding her choice. You are her cousin, it is fuck all to do with you

LovesBeingWokenEveryNight Tue 05-Feb-13 05:49:04

I would judge too. Having the memory of my dad at my wedding is one of my happiest memories of him. However everyone is different, to me it was about joining two two families not everyone thinks like that. Also there can be a lot of denial when someone is terminally ill. Does he seem heathly right now and not really affected? Maybe she hasn't accepted what is going to happen.

His health won't be the biggest barrier in attending, even if he is fine to attend he won't get insurance

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