That you disregard dc safety

(81 Posts)
bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 10:27:48

Exp has dc on contact visit once a month. He turns up without car seat for dc. I got so fed up of his disregard in keeping dc safe on car journeys that I had it written into the court order that he was to bring a suitible car seat for dc. Is it to much to ask that he pays attention to this ffs its only one time a month. He refuses to go out and buy one. Dc should be properly restrained in a car by law,not just me being difficult as exp puts it.

AuntieStella Sat 02-Feb-13 10:29:23

Don't you have a (lendable) car seat?

How many DC and what age are they?

Your Exp might argue that he doesn't want to pay out £££ for seats that he's only going to use once a month (then have to store).
But depending on the weight/age you have the law on your side (Google Car Seat Law and 'helpfully' print it off for him)

Personally, I wouldn't let my DC in a car without a seat when they needed them .
But the law states they can go in an emergency (like a taxi) without a seat.
But a pre-planned visit is not an emergency.

Can you lend him any seats that you have. Or if you don't have seats, pay half and store them?

DoItToJulia Sat 02-Feb-13 10:44:01

I think it's time you put your DCs first, and sort this out.

Either he can't take them in the car, or you need to accept that exp won't do the right thing and buy seats, so you will have to.

This is about your DCs being safe, not point scoring.

Shutupanddrive Sat 02-Feb-13 10:45:38

Assuming you have a seat, why not let him use that? Simple solution

It depends a bit on the age of the DC. Is it a case that one or more DC is small enough to need one of those baby car seats that only fit in specific makes of car, and you and XP would have to buy seperate car seats because you drive different cars?

If they are all at the age where basic booster seats will do, why aren't you just handing over the car seats with the DC? Insisting that he spends money on additional ones is a bit pissy.

BTW, if your point is that you yourself don't have a car, you should still have a car seat - no one would let me get away without buying one of the fucking things when DS was little - for those occasions when a friend offers to drive you and DC somewhere.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 10:50:17

one dc 8 yro and on a booster seat these are ten pounds to buy and not a big thing to store in the boot of a car.
Thats just it, it is a pre planned visit so he should know as it clearly states in the court order that he is to bring it.
He pisses me off that all responsibility he just lays on me, Lent my booster seat to a friend last night she was suppose to get it back to me this morning. I,m not going to chase her for it today just because irresponsible exp cant get it into his head that he needs to keep dc safe.

AuntieStella Sat 02-Feb-13 10:57:56

So you're putting your disinclination to get the available seat back from your friend above your DC's safety?

Oh, I agree he's being an arse, but your DC's safety is a consideration way above at.

confused does he normally bring his own booster seat or use yours?
If he usually uses your seat and the arrangement is that the seat is at your house (I don't know what's in your Court Order WRT the seat) then the onus is on YOU for not having it available.
Can he pick it up from your friend?

And speaking as the owner of a fairly small booted car (and 2 DC who have thankfully outgrown seats now) they are quite bulky to store. I had the booster seats with the removable backs. But even when they were using the bases only, they took up quite a bit of room.

So, YANBU to want your child to travel safely.
But if he uses your seat then YABU to lend it out the day before a Pre-Planned monthly visit, don't you think?

FreudiansSlipper Sat 02-Feb-13 11:02:22

Yes he is being an arse nd acting irresponsible by not having a car seat
but so area if you allow you ds to go off in his care without being secured in a car seat

you do not stop being parent just becaue they are spending time with someone else stop focusing on him being an idiot and get the car seat back from your friend

lljkk Sat 02-Feb-13 11:06:41

Given it's only £10 can you not buy a spare?

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 11:24:25

The court order states that he is to purchase and bring his own car seat on contact visits. Have lent him mine before this and I never got it back hence the court order. I then asked him to replace it he said why should he and that I can go and buy another one. (says the same when I ask him to pay maintanance).
As for me being irresponsible by allowing my dc to go off in his care without being secured in a car seat, Dc is in exp car and driven away without me going outside to the car. It only transpires after the visit few days later when dc mentions that exp did not have a seat.

delilahlilah Sat 02-Feb-13 11:38:33

I would be checking before he left. No seat, no car journey. He can choose between taking DC on foot, or returning with a seat. I don't think it would take long to get through to him. Does he realise the minimum fine is £30, but could be up to £500 if it went to court?
It's all well and good for people to say you should lend him yours, but I understand how you feel about it, especially when you didn't get the last one back. As for you having to buy him If he can run a car he can afford a safety seat for his DC.

manticlimactic Sat 02-Feb-13 11:43:55

How can he not return it though? He picks CD up and drops them off, so it's there in the car.

But I don't think you're BU with regards to him having a booster seat.

manticlimactic Sat 02-Feb-13 11:44:08

*dc not cd

sleepyhead Sat 02-Feb-13 11:44:52

If it's one of those booster seats without a back I can't see how an 8 yr old can't carry it out to the car with him and then carry it back in when he returns like any other bit of kit he might take with him.

Your ex sounds irresponsible and selfish, but I don't think an 8 yr old really needs 2 car seats when he only sees his father once a month and is picked up/dropped off in the car from outside his house.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 11:46:54

Its the confrontation thing me going out to the car so I avoid it so no scene is caused infront of dc. exp is of the opinion that he is above the law, and dc would say that I stopped him seeing his father if I don,t let him go. He don,t abide by the court order so what chance have I got in asking him to bring the car seat? in some replies people are saying for me to spend money buying my exp a car seat or just lend him mine, I am not responsibil for my exp being responsibil and i am so fed up of his bloody lame attitude.
Can you help me feed our child "why should I"
Can you help put shoes on our childs feet " why should I"
Can you keep our child safe in your car " why should I"
FFS do the right thing without me having to prompt you...

5madthings Sat 02-Feb-13 11:53:40

Her ex should have his own carseat, op has already lent him one which be has not returned.

Ffs why should the op provide one? He is the one coming to get the child in his car and should buy a carseat to fit that he keeps at home or in the car.

AmberLeaf Sat 02-Feb-13 11:53:44

Booster seats [the seat only ones] are transportable arent they? Mine used to go where my kids went. [I dont even drive]

Bluemonkeyspots Sat 02-Feb-13 11:56:07

You sound very strange hmm

My dc have a car seat each and it gets moved between cars, would not cross my mind to have a seat for every car.

Do you strip him naked when ex turns up and demand he hands over his own set of clothes for him?

deleted203 Sat 02-Feb-13 11:56:33

How tall is your 8 yo? Law says 4ft 5" and over doesn't need a car seat and my 7 yo is taller than this. He doesn't use a booster seat any more.

delilahlilah Sat 02-Feb-13 12:00:23

You're not stopping him seeing him, just stopping him going in the car. As I posted above, he can take him on foot or return with seat. I love that people are criticising you, but ignoring his irresponsibility. If it was an Group 0 or Group 1 expensive seat, fair enough to share. FFS he should supply what is necessary to his access visit.

To be honest, you sound as bad as each-other.

I really feel sorry for your dc, having two parents who are more interested in point scoring, and getting one above the other, than their child's safety.

lljkk Sat 02-Feb-13 12:04:20

Apologies if I missed where OP said she had already supplied one to her Ex to use.

Ffs why should the op provide one?

Because OP doesn't like confrontation and going to court over such a petty issue, or putting tension into her child's relationship with their bio dad?

It occurs to me that the Ex could pay OP £10 each time he takes the seat away, as a deposit on not returning it. But am aware that wouldn't really work either. smile

AmberLeaf Sat 02-Feb-13 12:05:17

Good point re age/height, this wont be an issue for much longer.

akaemmafrost Sat 02-Feb-13 12:10:55

I don't think you sound strange AT ALL.

Just angry and sad at having to deal with this kind of nonsense and wilful disregard of your Childs needs by his father just to get at you.

I'd provide the seat. Safety comes first and I wouldn't let him see it bothered me either but I'd have a good old bitch about it to anyone who'd listen smile.

No, sorry YANBU - he was told by court to buy a car seat. He has proven that he can't be trusted when you lend him one, as you never saw that one again.

Why should you provide a never-ending stream of car seats, once a month so that he can use and lose them?

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 12:38:10

I feel sorry that my dc father has choosen to ignore his responsibility towards dc safety of which I abide by and every other parent in the land does so. sound as bad as each other? I have lent him a car seat that didn,t come back as dc came back without it in hand.When asked his father to please return it back he told me why should he. I put my dc safety first and went as far as to ask a judge to write out a court order ensuring my dc safety whilst in his fathers care.
As for point scoreing you have read me all wrong, and are being unfair.
Bluemonkey what works for you does not work necessary for others.
Delila I see where you are coming from, yes he should.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Sat 02-Feb-13 12:39:38


Do you use the CSA re maintainence?

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Sat 02-Feb-13 12:40:15

Do you know where the car seat he previously didn't return is now?

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 12:44:41

Akae yep I am pissed off with having to deal with this kind of nonsense. it seems that its ok to disregard not only his dc safety but also a court order. he is the first to shout from the roof tops that fathers are treated unfairly in the courts and that the mothers are unfit and get away with it. ffs he has never payed a penny in maintanance and then i,m expected to wipe his arse and spend my hard earned single parent money and buy him a fucking car seat aswell. Phew , breathe sorry but so pissed off today and only came here to vent but looks like im being flamed.

BathTangle Sat 02-Feb-13 12:48:03

I use this for my DCs - doubles as a back pack so they can carry it and their stuff.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 12:50:04

The csa are like trying to polish a turd, bloody useless!!! He avoids them at every turn doing his best to evade them.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 12:52:08

No don,t know where my lent to him car seat has gone, the more I ask him for it the more he gets a rise from me and I can,t be arsed. Had to buy another one from my weekly shopping budget.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Sat 02-Feb-13 12:55:27

Bongo if you bought one that he now has, and you've replaced it, you have one each. He is a massive idiot, sorry about that. Would you consider informing your community policing team? They might just consider coming round if they know in advance the law is being broken.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 13:05:00

I brought another one to replace the one that I had lent to him, Use it in my car. He doesn,t have one hence the court order and I thought this would put a stop to any confusion over it.
I thought of doing that but then he would just be even more of a knobend about it knowing that I got the community policing involved. Why can,t he just be a responsible adult towards dc, it simple.
I said to him when it all came about please keep our son safe in the car, he says "he is not our son, we are not a family, he,s your son when he,s with you and my son when he,s with me" Man alive, can you see what I have to put up with?

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 13:05:57

It never turned back up the one that was lent to him.

Can you report him to the courts if he is breaking the court order? (Not sure how it works but am sure he will be told to comply?)

He sounds like a complete twat. I don't think YABU, he is.

I liked the suggestion above of not letting your son go until he has a car seat to sit in, is there a Halfords near you? He can go and buy one and then come back.

Also why isn't he paying you? Surely that needs to be dressed ASAP??? (Again sorry if I am being naive here but I don't know how it works.)

You don't sound odd by the way grin

Grrrrr just read last post. KNOB ALERT!

I would make his life as hard a possible and be as irritating as possible. Juvenile I know, not a good example I know but I wouldn't be able to help myself.

I would be reporting left right and centre.

5madthings Sat 02-Feb-13 13:12:08

So he doesn't pay maintenance either, yanbu he has a duty to provide for his son as well. I would be inclined to tip off the local CPO that he is breaking the law, a warning from them may give him a kick up the arse.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 13:18:34

you are not being naive, he don,t want to pay and don,t have to the nerve of him not giving back the car seat i brought and then telling me to go
and buy another one has pissed me off.
Tried that once of the halfords thing and off he went to get one, do you know that he came back 20 mins later and said that they had all sold out!!! Dc didn,t go with him that day but cried and was very upset at me for not letting him go with his father. I didn,t want that again so put the court order in place.

WorriedTeenMum Sat 02-Feb-13 13:19:59


Why on earth should you be expected to provide this useless waste of space an endless supply of car seats?

IDreamedADreamOfSausageRolls Sat 02-Feb-13 13:30:41

I would just not let DC go with him next time he turns up without the booster. If he doesn't keep to his side of the court order, you don't have to keep yours.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 13:35:49

wish it I could do thta IDreamed but dc is at hte age where he gets pissed off at me if he does,nt go with his father. just feels like damned if I do damned if I don,t. And he is being an arse.

justmyview Sat 02-Feb-13 13:43:20

I think you should go out to check if there is a seat. If not, then no contact. Yes your son will be annoyed, but he needs to understand you are protecting him from harm

How tall is child. If over 135cm then think car seat not required legally

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 13:51:38

he is not the 135cm as I keep checking his growth. Its his attitude that gets on my nerves. Your only doing this because you don,t want me to see my son is what I get and then my son is stroppy with me aswell, it makes me feel crap.

MuchBrighterNow Sat 02-Feb-13 13:56:14

He is clearly doing this deliberately to piss you off. Have you got an old cushion your Ds could use as a bit of a booster, ideally one full of bean bag polystyrene balls, or sawdust that could spill out all over his car ! grin

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 14:04:41

Your exp sounds awful OP!
Very sad that he refuses to be reasonable about basic child safety, especially when there's a court order in place re car seat.
Agree with justmyview re what to do.
Think you need to stand firm on this.
Good luck

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 14:12:02

I would just reiterate calmly that no, you are not trying to stop him seeing his son, but to simply ensure his safety as per the court order, which he presumably signed and agreed to abide by? The lengths he is going to to upset you are astonishing. He must have to work really hard at being this unpleasant

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 14:19:56

After seven years of being split up surely he would have better things to than to deliberately want to piss me off... do you think its because he knows that he is being a twat?
I love that one of the sawdust, thankyou much you have cheered me up.
just got to sit out the next few hours hoping that dc comes back safely. And yep ,i,m going to stand firm on it next time.
its not as if he hasn,t got the money to buy a car seat,he,s loaded not paying any csa!! They paid me once and he asked them to give it back and they did??
A bit off topic but this is his mind set towards his responsibilitys.

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 14:28:24

I think he doesn't like the fact that you asked a judge to put car seat issue in the court order and the judge agreed with you. He doesn't want to back down perhaps because of sheer bloody mindedness, and childish pigheadedness. And of course he knows hes being idiotic but doesnt want to admit it. So much easier to blame it on you. He sounds exhausting. Your poor dc

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 14:31:28

Is he self employed?
Took me months to sort out csa stuff but would suggest keeping on at them on a weekly basis. If he can afford to run a car surely he can afford to pay SOMETHING towards the upbringing of his dc?

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 14:34:41

For some reason he hates me with a passion,but I make it clear to him that I don,t give a shit that he does. My only priorty is to my dc. I never saw it that way Rainbow.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 14:39:52

Yes he is self employed and earns very well, they know this and how he has a mortgage,rents out various properties. He says that I should ask him if dc needs anything, but I shouldn,t have to go cap in hand when dc needs things he should just pay his way. part of me thinks that he still wants to be in control of me. yes it is very exhausting and draining for both me and dc and have been putting up with it for years.

No car seat, no contact. Tough if ex doesn't like it, he knows he has to provide a car seat. But he's breaking a court order, what is the penalty for that and how can it be enforced?

The main problem as I see it is your son - "dc would say that I stopped him seeing his father if I don,t let him go". Sorry, but you are the adult and he is the child; where safety is concerned what you say, goes. Explain it to him as much as you have to, be that broken record. If he doesn't like it, again, tough.

Do you have a phone number for ex? Can your son phone him the day before contact to tell him that he needs to have a booster seat for him? Because then if ex turns up without one, you son will see it as his dad letting him down rather than his mum? Just a thought, I appreciate it might not be do-able.

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 14:47:23

My ex has been livid with me for years, ever since a judge ordered him to disclose his assets. He was saying he ccouldn't afford child maintenance, then it transpired he'd been given over a million quid when he was made redundant. He still believes he shouldn't have to pay any maintenance. He also only sees his dc once a month.
I handle it now by being really nice and polite when we have to speak/email etc, flummoxes him completely. Very hard to do after all the pain he caused his dc when he remarried and decided he no longer wanted to support his son or have regular contact with him.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 14:57:51

when dc comes back from contact later I will have the conversation with him re the car seat. But as for dc asking him to do that over the phone it will go in one ear and out the other. I can,t empahsize enough how he thinks that he can,t be told what to do and how to do it. its so draining having a grown adult behave like this.

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 14:58:01

You shouldn't have to and yes it does sound controlling of him.
Someone senior needs to look at your case by the sounds of it. If you have the strength do keep on at the csa, they exist because of people like him after all.
Took me over a year to get my claim sorted but worth the aggravation.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 15:06:45

It will cost me money to have the breach of order taken before the judge again. So it looks like I will have try and appeal to him to bring the car seat. don,t fancy my chances much. failing that then it will be no contact until he comes with a seat. im prepared to take the flack from dc but its true what whereyouleftit i am the adult.
intrested to know how your csa worked out please rainbow.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 15:07:57

thats sad for your dc rainbow but his fathers loss

Of course it will go in one ear and out the other. What he does isn't the point. Your son is the point. He will have asked daddy to do something, and daddy won't have done it. At the moment, your son blames you if contact doesn't happen (and I can't see your ex pass up the chance to badmouth you to DS and reinforce that misconception). This might help DS to see where blame lies for himself, without any adult telling him.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 15:27:22

its almost as if he is trying to goad me. he is adament that we should never go back to court again and that he won,t turn up anyway. he is acting younger than ds. im not looking forward to the chat with dc later as fairly enough he loves his father and looks forward to contact. but he needs to understand that his safety is important.

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 15:27:40

I had to apply for a variation as exp was "unemployed". I argued that his lifestyle was incompatible with a nil assessment BUT I had to get judge to release form E? from during litigation, which stated other income/assets/outgoings that he had disclosed. Hisrental income, cars, 2nd Mediterranean home was enough to convince senior csa guy that he had to pay. Problem was it was complex and no-one wanted to touch it. If you have any particularly written proof of assets or can give as much info as poss re lifestyle, holidays he may go on etc it helps. I now get maximum payments.

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 15:37:03

Oh OP he sounds impossible.
Try and comfort yourself with the fact that when dc are older they will understand that you are the one who was always there for them and did all you could to ensure their safety. It's not a petty issue either. A neighbours son was killed in a car accident when not strapped into car seat properly, it's just not worth the risk. Just a shame your exp can't behave like a responsible grown up!

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 15:42:03

If you did go back to court and exp didn't turn up I am pretty sure he would be liable for all court fees. Have to get babies up now, best of luck. Will you update on how you get on?

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 15:42:12

oh shit im paranoid now that they may have an accident on the road, he could go through the windscreen or anything I feel worried sick,why bloody why bloody prick he is a prick I should never of let dc go

lljkk Sat 02-Feb-13 15:49:33

Hold on, booster seats weren't even legally required until 6 years ago or so, at that age. They may be best to use but the risk increase for not having one is not massive. Don't panic. Come up with an action plan for future, that part you can control.

rainbowrainbowrainbow Sat 02-Feb-13 15:52:47

Oh no OP sorry. I didn't mean to scare you. Sorry. I am just overcautios because of what happened to neighbour. If they have seatbelts on they should be ok if theres an accident, even if they've not quite big enough to go without boosters.

Yes, an 8-year-old doesn't really need a car seat. (I hate car seats anyway, I hate the whole unnecessary scaremongering con of them being suddenly 'required' for older and older children). So try not to fixate on that too much.

However, I would advise a chat with WA about getting a better solicitor, one who is used to abusive dickheads and legal ways of putting them in their place. This man is an arsehole but he does not have superpowers and is not above the law. You can legally make his life difficult and uncomfortable and I suggest you go ahead.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 17:02:57

Had a bit of a panic back there but sure ds will come back safely fingers crossed.
Legally making his life difficult would put me and ds in not a very good position as dv have taken place. I am scared of his reaction to things so I tend to want a quite life and not engage with him. sometimes I lose it and tell him that I dont care/give a shit but it falls on deaf ears.
when it comes to him being above the law believe me he is. He managed to persuede a judge to overturn an injunction on him from me. I hate me and ds being put in this posistion when all I want is for ds to be safe. its like he can lord it over us.

Pandemoniaa Sat 02-Feb-13 17:02:58

Hold on, booster seats weren't even legally required until 6 years ago or so, at that age


My dcs are grown up. At the age that your son is they were always in a seatbelt. However (and I'm not saying this is right, merely that it is how it was) booster seats for 8 year olds were neither a legal requirement nor used. They travelled for thousands of miles without accident.

I realise that this doesn't make the situation with your ex any easier but please don't get paranoid about the automatic likelihood of an accident occurring.

If a car seat is specified in the court order and he refuses to use one then you do have to take him back to court. Otherwise there's no point in having the order in the first place and he can carry on taking the piss.

lljkk Sat 02-Feb-13 17:07:30

So sorry you are in this position. But every time he successfully bullies you he will be encouraged to keep doing it and will keep doing it. You must find a way to stand up to him. Good luck.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 17:31:09

Taking the piss is what he is doing and being a bully. Problem is I don,t want his shit disregard rubbing off on ds.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 19:36:20

An hour late coming back , Car seat was at his fathers house as he said to ds that your mum should of given me yours!!! ds came back in new clothes as father said he didn,t like what he was wearing so made him get changed into new clothes in the shop changing room and put his other clothes in a bag.
Also told ds that he can sell his playstation for him when he gives it to him and get him an xbox. Hold on a minute I worked hard to buy the playstation and he shouldn,t be telling him that he can just sell it for him!!
He seems to want to undermind me as ds threw a right strop when I said that no he will not be selling the playstation.
He is a beginning to irritate me.

gimmecakeandcandy Sat 02-Feb-13 19:45:15

You MUST pursue payments from him.

And no more contact until he gets a car seat. Your ds will eventually see him for what he is.

bongobaby Sat 02-Feb-13 19:52:00

The bloke is an arse whom I think is using ds to play his shitty mind games.
Gimme its what I have been doing for years trying to get payment from him, it,s pretty hard when his response is "over my dead body will you get any money out of me".
How dare he tell ds that he can sell things from our house just what sort of twat is he? And its plain to see that he had (mine from last time) a car seat all along just wants to make me look bad infront of ds if I say no you can,t go with daddy with no car seat knowing that he had it all along...

spiritedaway Sat 02-Feb-13 23:14:30

Yes he should but he isn',. so you have to.He has an easy way to wind you up. Don't bite. Put your kid first and rise about it

spiritedaway Sat 02-Feb-13 23:15:39

Eh ? What the what? Phone are you serious?

delilahlilah Sun 03-Feb-13 11:57:07

Some of them have this mind set that they are giving you money for yourself, not for the child. My Ex does this and says 'but you get child benefit, you shouldn't need anything else'.... yes, because that goes so far towards the cost of bringing up a child angry
I am trying to live with the idea that the financial sitaution is the cost of gettting rid of the twat, and I have as little to do with him as possible. Occasionally however, I lose the plot. Like you, it was DV etc, but I am now in the position that I am no longer afraid of him. Him realising that has changed things. Bullies are cowards underneath, and he is afraid that you are no longer his to control.

frustratedworkingmum Sun 03-Feb-13 11:59:59

Christ on a bike - i feel sorry for your kids

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