Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

To ask why do people 'loud parent'

(468 Posts)
ElevenCent Fri 01-Feb-13 18:24:01

This woman from my NCT group does it all the time with her DS when we all meet for coffee and it's just ridiculous. She literally verbalises every thing they do with a question at the end and some sort of lesson. Eg mummy can't find her phone in her handbag can she James? Phone, James, PHONE. We ring daddy on the phone don't we? / Mummy is going to get you a rice cake, isn't she James? But we only have three left don't we, till we get to the shops. One, two, three. Shops. SHOPS.

I do engage with DD, naturally, but nowhere near on this level!

Sorry, I know this isn't a new topic, but it is so ridiculous. A couple of times I've echoed it with "what is mummy going to do tonight DD, drink gin, that's right, GIN. What does mummy like with her gin? Tonic, that's
right isn't it DD? But she might need to have it neat tonight, isn't that right?" however she is usually too absorbed in explaining to him why coffee is hot, HOT, and why it is sometimes in a mug MUG, sometimes in a cup CUP and why only mummies MUM-MIES drink coffee and not babies BABIES and why and why and why and why and why

belindarose Fri 01-Feb-13 18:30:55

I do it all the time. Hopefully not loudly. I just talk to my baby. He likes it. I don't care if you're listening or not. I'm not talking to you. I do it in the car, in the woods, in the shops, wherever. And I will carry on doing it, whether or not you think I'm trying to impress you.

Juanca Fri 01-Feb-13 18:33:21

YABU. I do it and my Jonquil is trilingual and can make a perfect souffle and he's only 17 months.

Pagwatch Fri 01-Feb-13 18:34:36

<shrug>

There are worse things to do. Like not talking to your child.

I think it just becomes a habit sometimes.

It only annoys me when it involves smuggery .. 'come on Timothy we must get home for our music and movement hour before canapés on the lawn'

I had to talk to DS a lot as he had language problems.

meadow2 Fri 01-Feb-13 18:35:19

I do the talking thing all the time, and at home.Its just a natural thing you do when you have babies.

catgirl1976 England Fri 01-Feb-13 18:38:55

I do vocalise everything. I don't think I do it loudly and there are no canapes involved.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 18:39:23

Some people are just a bit keen I think and take normal talking to your child to the extreme. I think poor James might grow up to think he has to say key words twice though if she carries on with 'cup CUP' etc.. He'll be saying 'me want a biscuit BISCUIT, now NOW' before she knows it.

FutTheShuckUp Fri 01-Feb-13 18:40:09

Theres a woman who's like this with a child in DS's class. She sort of shrieks at her younger child as if she wants everyone else to here 'yes you will be starting school soon wont you darling. yes you are very good at colouring arent you darling'
She is also slagging her other half off on facebook constantly even though he appears to be good enough to be having another baby with hmm

Mollydoggerson Fri 01-Feb-13 18:40:52

I suppose to increase the child's language skills and decrease mummy's boredom with talking to the wall/trees.

SageYourResoluteOracle Fri 01-Feb-13 18:41:06

YABabitU but I can see how it would get a but tiresome if you never got a word in edge ways. Had to laugh at the 'What's mummy going to drink tonight, DD?' bit! Mind you, I think I might be one of those mum-mies! And DDs speech isn't bad for her age so I don't know if it's made a difference (not a stealth boast, BTW, but an actual boast!!)

Juanca grin

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 18:43:37

loud parenting is just talking to your child surely It is a wee bit different from performance parenting which is v v annoying like now we remember the Mandarin word for thank you dont we darling grin

I was a loud talkative parent MY dds liked it and when they came to talking they could communicate quite well from a young age, dd1 started speaking ar 10 months. obvious genuis grin

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 18:44:42

and you know I work with some parents who never speak to their babies ever id rather have a loud parent than that anyday

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 18:46:04

there are no canapes involved.

ach catgirl you spoiled my vision of you I so had you down for a canapes girl grin

Fakebook Fri 01-Feb-13 18:46:32

Inside the four walls of my house I practise loud parenting at its finest. Outside and infront of people, I just tone it down, but still do it.

People always mention how sensibly and clearly dd talks. She used to have full conversations with old people on the bus aged 2.5. DS is also starting to follow Dd's footsteps.

Take the piss all you like, but I think talking to babies like this really helps them develop good speech quickly.

catgirl1976 England Fri 01-Feb-13 18:47:51

Don't get me wrong, I love a good canape grin

I made some lovely ones at Christmas

But they have yet to come up in conversation with DS smile

wonkylegs Fri 01-Feb-13 18:49:39

Ha I found it difficult to talk to DS about mundane things so I used to talk to him about work, buildings (I'm an architect) - what I liked/didn't like & driving. I never expected him to pay attention it was just the interacting aspect, and I didn't feel so stupid talking about stuff.
Which was fine until one day we were walking past a house just after he started really talking properly and DS exclaimed loudly ' mummy that's a really ugly house' blush he was right but the lady in the garden gave me a really dirty look!
I'm much more careful about what I say within even vague earshot these days.

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 18:50:45

grin wonky legs

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 18:51:52

god when mine were babies we would talk about the birds tree bushes dogs ducks , what we were eating what we were doing next I would also moan about my day when they were tiny babies, you know maybe that is why they never shut up blush

Boomerwang England Fri 01-Feb-13 18:51:52

I haven't seen that. I do mutter things around the house like 'mummy needs something to eat/drink', 'mummy's lost her keys' and then feel like slapping myself because I sound a fool.

When out and about with my daughter I talk to her about things that are going on, but I don't raise my voice so that others can hear. How odd.

YANBU.

3monkeys3 Fri 01-Feb-13 18:52:29

I am naturally a very quiet/non chatty person. It may be a coincidence, but dcs 1 and 2 were both late talkers (dc3, who has had the least focused attention is right on track though - go figure) and I often wish I could be more like your friend. Of course I talk to my dc, and always have, but not intensively iyswim. So I think you're being a bit U.

scottishmummy France Fri 01-Feb-13 18:53:02

loud parents are funny,the pushy ones.it's Lin-gwee-knee for tea.you know go on saskia
say Lin-gwee-knee like the artisan man we met in Italy.
the ongoing running commentary of middle class life

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 18:53:06

oh and another thing dd2s parents evening last week , miss jay has excellent communication skills.

AThingInYourLife Fri 01-Feb-13 18:53:08

"I do it all the time. Hopefully not loudly. I just talk to my baby. He likes it. I don't care if you're listening or not. I'm not talking to you. I do it in the car, in the woods, in the shops, wherever. And I will carry on doing it, whether or not you think I'm trying to impress you."

Nice smile

ThreeWheelsGood Fri 01-Feb-13 18:53:30

This makes me sad. I've just had my first baby and I find it really hard to talk to her, I've learnt by copying my mum and just chatting about what we're up to etc. I feel really self conscious if I do it in public (I do it really quietly sometimesif alone, louder if with someone but not LOUD). I'd hate someone to judge me for it, I feel it's helping her already as she makes a huge range of sounds when she babbles. So, YABU, it's great she's.talking to her baby.

exoticfruits Fri 01-Feb-13 18:53:57

I wouldn't want them to stop-they are highly amusing!

MissVerinder Fri 01-Feb-13 18:54:56

So that by the age of 5 they're not having to communicate with Makaton because their parents never spoke to them?

Or in my case, because DD is partially deaf.

Performance parenting on the other hand...

catgirl1976 England Fri 01-Feb-13 18:56:57

I have had a few blush moments when I've realised the whole supermarket queue has just heard:

"You're a piglet aren't you? You are my little piglet and your knees are made of bacon and I am going to eat your bacony knees and your cheesey toes because you are a delicious little piglet." etc

blush

meadow2 Fri 01-Feb-13 18:56:59

Its a sad thing in society that a lot of parents dont even realise they should talk to their children.Its very common,and the problem is getting worse.

AppleOgies Fri 01-Feb-13 18:57:49

I'm sometimes a loud parent... I don't realise I'm doing it. I get very animated and loud without realising it. <blush>

Calmisthemantra Fri 01-Feb-13 19:00:01

I found it tricky to talk to my daughter in public - just felt like I was talking to myself. Much better now but only 'relevant' stuff iykwim like 'what shall we have for lunch?' and never really in front of others.

My mil on the other hand be we shuts up and babbles nonsense continually at dd 'shall we cross the road. Roads are hard. But grass is softer. See the grass. It's green like a frog. What noise do frogs make. Ribbit ribbit. Sounds a bit like rabbit. Rabbits eat carrots. Oh look a bird. Birds have feathers that are soft like your coat yada yadda yadda .....'

Makes me want to gouge my eyes out and eliminates any chance of normal adult conversation.

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 19:01:32

Its a sad thing in society that a lot of parents dont even realise they should talk to their children.Its very common,and the problem is getting worse.

I agree with you, parents feel self concious and a bit silly for talking to their babies, babies need to hear you say 'stuff'

gonetobed Fri 01-Feb-13 19:03:14

Its good to talk to your kids, everyone knows that but it is really annoying when its that over the top not really needed talk! especially when your trying to talk as grown ups

Campaspe Fri 01-Feb-13 19:03:51

I think I'm guilty of loud explaining and talking to DD (aged 6). But hopefully it doesn't seem competitive and doesn't involve boasting. It's only because I want her to enjoy and understand and interact with the world around her. That doesn't seem so bad, does it?

MidnightMasquerader Fri 01-Feb-13 19:04:26

People judge all the time threewheels - and half the time you won't even know they're at it. smile

Who cares. You're never going to see them again. Best just to get on and do it the way you want to do it, and not give two hoots about random strangers.

I judge performance parenters (I love a good judge, me), but loud parenters - I have a bit of a soft spot for.

catladycourtney1 Fri 01-Feb-13 19:06:04

I do it with my cats, I won't lie. I would find it annoying if I was trying to have a conversation with someone though and they kept talking at their baby all the time though

exoticfruits Fri 01-Feb-13 19:07:59

Its a sad thing in society that a lot of parents dont even realise they should talk to their children.Its very common,and the problem is getting worse.

We are not talking about parents talking to their DC-of course they should-however they are not deaf! You can talk in a normal manner and you do have to let the DC have time to respond! The DC of the loud parent never bothers to talk-they can't get in a word edgeways.

Branleuse Fri 01-Feb-13 19:08:12

i try and do it if i can. Speech therapist recommended it. Although she didnt call it loud parenting, and she didnt mention any controversy to the method.

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 19:10:05

SALT where I work uses loads of words for saying a simple thing for the children who go to her, <shrug>

meadow2 Fri 01-Feb-13 19:10:31

Exoticfruits - You should comment 4 times before you ask a child a question.

asleb Fri 01-Feb-13 19:13:22

I walked past a lady today who was walking along with her 2/3yo dd and she said very loudly and clearly "shall we go in m and s and get something nice for tea or shall we go to the SUSHI RESTAURANT that you love?"

scottishmummy France Fri 01-Feb-13 19:14:56

someone always gets offended and trots out salt reasons for lots verbal interaction
they are being bitty offended for no good reason,this is the Loud parental brayers
not the regular parental verbal discourse

mrsjay Fri 01-Feb-13 19:16:36

Im not offended scottish Just chatting im not looking for a fight or anything loud parenting is good I do think folk get a bit het up about this whole parenting malarky

meadow2 Fri 01-Feb-13 19:19:01

I think repeating everything like the op states is fine, and good practice.However cant say on the other as never heard anyone do it.The only mandarin Ive ever heard anyone mention is the orange fruit version.

exoticfruits Fri 01-Feb-13 19:20:04

You don't even need to ask a question, meadow 2, you need to have a proper conversation and listening is a very important part-even if it is only a babble. I expect people to chat continually to their baby/DC but why loudly? The loud ones that I hear never wait for a response-half the time they never look at the DC to see if they have one-they treat them like a TV audience!

scottishmummy France Fri 01-Feb-13 19:20:15

of course parenting malarkey gets us all het up,why we wouldn't be here if it was skoosh

exoticfruits Fri 01-Feb-13 19:21:38

Half the time I think it is for the other adults benefit as in 'aren't I a good mummy' -and the DC lets it wash over them.

TheCrackFox Fri 01-Feb-13 19:22:17

There is a difference between chatting to your DCs and chatting to your DCs very loudly so the entire room can marvel at your fabulous parenting.

gwenniebee Fri 01-Feb-13 19:23:34

I talk to my baby all the time blush. It makes me look completely bats, especially when it turns out she's asleep. I don't think I do it loudly. Oh well.

meadow2 Fri 01-Feb-13 19:23:39

Exoticfruits - I have honestly never seen anyone do that irl,only ever heard of it on mn.

The 4 comments before a question thing is what you have to do with any child with speech problems.

exoticfruits Fri 01-Feb-13 19:27:32

But not so an entire supermarket/swimming pool/playground can hear meadow!

PurityBrown Fri 01-Feb-13 19:27:49

I'm an out-and-proud Loud Parent (and I couldn't give a stuff as to what other people think)

I was at it on the bus this afternoon, much to the amusement/bemusment of the other passengers. Thanks to me, everyone in South Croydon knows what causes condensation on the bus windows (plus the location of every CCTV camera on the route home)

The alternative is far worse, believe me. DS has a screech that can shatter glass, and can keep it up for several hours, while DD has discovered the joys of poo-smearing.

Peka Fri 01-Feb-13 19:27:56

I had a horrible moment of self-realisation today that I am, in fact, a loud parent. I don't know why it surprised me as I once managed to halt the work of an entire office just having a conversation with my mum on the phone (who, to be fair, acts as though the telephone weren't there at all and she is just shouting at me from Devon. It is quit hard not to match volume for volume). However in my DS's case it's mutual and he starts talking to himself when he wakes in the morning with the running commentary continuing through all waking hours. We sound totally obnoxious oh god.

Osmiornica Fri 01-Feb-13 19:28:38

Hmm, well I chat to my children about inane things. Sometimes they're the only people I talk to all day and I have to talk loudly as my eldest has hearing problems.

I do however know someone who only talks to me via their child which is very odd.

exoticfruits Fri 01-Feb-13 19:28:59

You do have to engage the DC-whenever I hear the loud parent it is quite clear that the DC has switched off completely and has it as background noise.

andubelievedthat Fri 01-Feb-13 19:32:18

hmmmm.... bet those 2 Jedward boys were parented like that !

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 19:38:15

lol at andub, it's exactly like Jedward, non-stop constant narrating of everyday life grin

KitchenandJumble Fri 01-Feb-13 19:40:38

I'm not annoyed by performance parenting, I find it hilarious. I was recently a witness to a remarkable scene. Father of three little ones, I would imagine ages 3, 4, and 6. They happened to be walking ahead of us on the way to a restaurant. He couldn't stop performing. "Yes, we all love to go to the Nepali restaurant, don't we? And you know where Nepal is, don't you?" Silence from the kids. "That's right, it's in the Himalayas. Yes, the Him-a-lay-as. And what is the tallest mountain there? You know what it's called, don't you?" Silence. "Yes, Mount Everest is what most people call it. But in Nepali it's called [insert Nepalese name]."

I could barely contain my glee when we entered the restaurant. There was a small television near the entrance, and all three children immediately surrounded it, slack-jawed. The father was beside himself. "Oh, yes, you don't watch television at home, do you? Yes, it must seem very exciting to you because you don't watch at home. Yes, I know, we don't have a television at home." He must have repeated himself about fourteen times. And then one child started to sing along to an advertising jingle. No T.V. at home, my hind foot! grin

BsshBossh Fri 01-Feb-13 19:40:38

I never did much of it but a fair few other parent friends did - irritating at times but never really bothered me. One mother was truly OTT but I simply saw her less.

YANBU for being irritated but YABU for letting it bother you.

MidnightMasquerader Fri 01-Feb-13 19:43:20

<snurk> KitchenandJumble grin

BsshBossh Fri 01-Feb-13 19:43:38

Aw catgirl1976 that wouldn't have bothered me at all, that's so sweet smile

JuliesSistersCousinsAuntsCat Fri 01-Feb-13 19:48:35

I could be guilty of this but then my DS, 22 months, is constantly chattering about everything around him. When we walk places, he likes to stop and look at cars/trees/people/birds/planes and will not stop referring to it until you acknowledge it's existence. It goes like this

DS - mama, teee
Me - yes, a tree

or;

DS - bird, bird, bird! Bird!
Me - (finally) yes, a bird. In the sky
DS - sy, sy, sy!
Me - yes, the sky

Today, he was pointing at books in a shop going '2, 2, 2!' It was the number 8 so I said, oh, 8. And then started 'ay, ay, ay'. As you can gather, he doesn't stop talking!

LaQueen Fri 01-Feb-13 19:56:58

"I wouldn't want them to stop-they are highly amusing!"

Well, exactly exotic it's hours of free entertainment grin

For all those over-keen Mums who think their children will have delayed speech development, unless they keep up a constant running commentary on everything and anything they do 24/7...don't stress it.

Language acquisition ain't like that.

LaQueen Fri 01-Feb-13 20:05:07

Whenever I witness Loud Parenting...

'Look Saskia, an aeroplane...remember we flew on one when we flew to MAURITIUS last year, on our holidays...say MAURITIUS, Saskia...try again...MAURITIUS...yes, that's right...aren't you clever...and do you remember how an aeroplane stays up in the sky, do you...remember we talked about propulsion and AERODYNAMICS...remember...AERODYNAMICS...remember Saskia, and you asked some very clever questions about AERODYNAMICS, didn't you...ad infinitum

Invaribaly, Saskia is trying to insert her finger up her nose, or is actually oblivious, and is far more fascinated with the toggle on her coat.

countrykitten Fri 01-Feb-13 20:08:06

There are more important things to get annoyed about than a Mum interacting with her baby aren't there? I LOVE to see parents chatting away to tiny babies who are clearly taking it all in and loving the interaction. Isn't this as it should be?

Worried actually that your OP will make parents who feel silly and self conscious (why??) doing this even more so and like they are being judged.

scottishmummy France Fri 01-Feb-13 20:13:04

love loud parents the loud precocious braggy commentary to saskia et al

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 20:13:53

tbf to the OP she was trying to have a coffee with this woman, the constant narration to the baby does get in the way of the conversation somewhat. It's different to talking at/to the baby when it's just the two of you.

Chottie Fri 01-Feb-13 20:14:05

My local Waitrose is full of these mothers - that is why I do not shop on Saturday afternoons. The store just vibrates to the sound of all those parents talking in their 'special' voices. What's wrong with just talking normally?????

I have no problem with parents talking to their DC, it's the over verbalising and being forced to 'share the experience'.smile

I am a loud parent.

You will hear me in supermarkets saying Child, get here, child we cant play tig, child we don't need 4 blocks of cheese, right sit in the trolley

grin

He does run straight to the fish counter though and shouts dead fish mum, dead fish, aww fish dead. Every single time we go

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere Fri 01-Feb-13 20:20:12

There is an enormous difference between talking to your child a lot and incessant LOUD PARENTING.

Take for instance a woman whose son goes to the school my son attends. We were waiting outside for school to end. Her daughter was running around a bit as kids do and she was raising her voice slightly to talk to her daughter, until.... she suddenly started talking RIDICULOUSLY loudly when she said "Oh, those noises you are making! PHONICS LESSONS HAVE A LOT TO ANSWER FOR, DON'T THEY, MY LITTLE DARLING!" The child was 3 at the time.

YANBU and I say that as a childminder who also talks constantly to her kids no matter the age of the child.

ElsieMc Fri 01-Feb-13 20:34:12

Love the bacony knees talk at the supermarket, but that is not loud parenting. It's funny, loving parenting which makes other's smile. Loud parenting is over enunciating everything, over doing absolutely everything and never leaving the poor bloody child alone to be a child.

There is one mother in every class and you start to dislike their poor DC's because you don't want them near you because of the loud parenting parent. Sad really, because one such little girl made a bid for escape in an assembly last week and as she passed me, she gave me a gorgeous little smile as she got away!

PurityBrown Fri 01-Feb-13 20:42:06

I do the wanky mc parenting at full volume [shameless]

Today's topics were

Condensation
The function of gears in an engine
Waitrose
Pathophysiology of Influenza virus
Brioche vs pain aux chocolat

DC were busy licking the window throughout all of this. Do I win Loud Parent of the Year?

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 20:47:27

I think I 'quiet parent' i.e. I constantly tell them to shush, when they ask me, loudly on the bus, 'why is that lady fat? Has she eaten too many sweets? Is that lady very old? Is that lady pregnant? I know how the baby got in there. Is it going to come out of her bottom? That lady has a beard' and so on and so on.

Perhaps I should start talking non-stop, then they wouldn't have a chance to say these things.

fossil971 Fri 01-Feb-13 20:47:47

One of my DC had speech delay and I was told to talk to him/give him running commentary on life. All that "Oh look a bus, it's a big red bus, we go on the bus don't we?". After a year or so of that it took a while to break the habit!

OTOH (hopefully not linked) the DC can be bad listeners so at times I have had to be excessively LOUD and POSITIVE about the smallest things like WALKING REALLY NICELY NOT HITTING YOUR BROTHER. Or is that just plain shouting?

My DC also ask questions constantly so I am constantly stuck with explaining to them how engines work or why shops have revolving doors or why you can't walk to the planet Mars, so I probably sound like a pushy parent too. I doubt anyone you perceive as loud does it just to show off or annoy, honest. Some people are just more talkative that others in all kinds of situations.

TheBlackBagBorderBinLiner Fri 01-Feb-13 20:48:27

Now my girls are at school, I talk to the dog:

'Look there's a horse in that field. Did you see a squirrel? Yes I saw it's bushy tail, look at it jump. Would you like a biscuit, is that a hungry face?....'

The last time i went on a train with my mum she turned to me and said 'Look, horses in that field, do you think we'll see some sheep, I like sheep, your dog complete softy would like some sheep, would n't she, oh look! over there....'

i am nearly 40, must try harder not to end up like my mum.

VinegarDrinker Fri 01-Feb-13 20:50:39

I chat to DS constantly. Not particularly loudly. His speech is pretty advanced (23 months, been talking in full sentences for ages) and between us it's rare for my DH to get a word in edgeways...

One of my NCT friends literally cannot talk to her DS in public. She always asks me what I talk to DS about. I don't know how to answer, it's just second nature to me to talk to him. Her DS has maybe 10 recognisable words.

Now I have no idea if it's genetics, parenting, random chance or whatever, but I certainly won't be trying to stop myself talking to him any time soon.

LaQueen Fri 01-Feb-13 20:50:39

The vast majority of children have perfectly adequate hearing...you can actually speak to them in a moderate tone of voice, using a normal level of volume.

Tallgiraffe Fri 01-Feb-13 20:52:18

At least they're talking to their baby! Apparently our area has a real problem with peoplesate talking to their children until they're 2+ which is leading to speech delays etc. DS is inflicted with a running commentary of our life, I am the person that wanders round the supermarket asking shall we buy bananas or apples. But I'm quiet. And if I didn't I might fall asleep mid step from exhaustion. Sorry if it annoys any of you that I pass!

scottishmummy France Fri 01-Feb-13 20:53:01

loud parenting isn't for child,it's for onlookers a isn't we so great/quirky/clever commentary

VinegarDrinker Fri 01-Feb-13 20:54:04

The OP doesn't mention volume at all, just says:

"She literally verbalises every thing they do with a question at the end and some sort of lesson"

Which I would argue is pretty common and a natural instinct for lots of parents

I agree performance parenting is highly amusing and totally different

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 20:56:38

The thread title includes the word 'loud', which indicates the volume. Plus the use of capital letters in the OP's examples would indicate shouting or loud talking at least.

mermaidbutmytailfelloff Fri 01-Feb-13 20:56:44

Several times I pointed out tractors and trains when I was in the car to my ds...trouble is my work colleague was in the car and not ds.

And the number of times I talked inanely to my shopping trolley forgetting ds was at home and not sitting in it.

Loud parenting is quite sane on my book compared to what I did.

He does run straight to the fish counter though and shouts dead fish mum, dead fish, aww fish dead.

^ Cutest thing I've heard all week! smile

tanukiton Fri 01-Feb-13 21:38:11

Purity I am a contender too. My children speak English and Japanese. When we come back to the uk . I usually tell them off in Japanese and vice versa in Japan. I also used to only really have my kids to talk to in english during the day., So My supermarket conversation is a bit like this:
Baby: gurr bu gurgle
Me? Really? I never knew!P
B: gurgle gagaga. (Eats sock)
Me: what the combobulation drive broke?
B: da dada co co an ne ne
Me: And you were suck on alpha centauri , where you discovered the meaning of the universe .All you need is,,, a yogurt to finish the project ?
B: banana tai tai tai
Me : banana youguruto ga hoshii? Gomen ne nai.... Ichichigo ha? ( starts chatting in Japanese)
I am a mn nightmare.

Theicingontop Fri 01-Feb-13 21:48:35

My son's favourite word is why, and I vowed that I'd answer as many whys as I could without losing my sanity, and that's what I do. Hopefully not too loudly. I didn't know it was something that annoyed people confused

The other day:

"Mummy, cloud. Up there."
"Yes, it's a cloud"
"Sky!"
"Yep, in the sky"
"Why?"
"Because they're very light and they float"
"Why?"

etc etc etc, until my throat gets hoarse. Because nothing is worse than a child that can't converse and has no interest in doing so.

Xmasbaby11 Fri 01-Feb-13 21:52:08

I think it is instinctive, and I do it in private and public. I don't speak louder than I would to an adult. I think I am just a person who talks a lot so it feels normal to me.

ChunkyPickle Fri 01-Feb-13 22:01:33

I do this. DS likes talking about things, and only being two, the things he can talk about are quite limited (Look bus! White Lorry, red car yes we'll go to the shops etc) so sometimes I go a bit off-piste for my own amusement.

And when he was a baby, I'd talk to myself for my own sanity, and because otherwise I could go all day without uttering a word, so when someone at the supermarket (for instance) asked me something, I'd open my mouth and only a croak would come out.

I'm sorry if it annoys you, but I'm sure you have habits that would annoy me, and by now the constant wittering is pretty much unconsciously done. I'm sure once he's a bit older he'll start rolling his eyes and telling me to shut up and the problem will cure itself.

JollyRedGiant Fri 01-Feb-13 22:04:53

I talk loudly to 21mo DS all the time. I just have a loud voice. I also repeat back what he says to me fairly often. I'm not making it up, he did just say "humous" although it may not have sounded like that to people listening.

I do sometimes get a bit horrified when I play back what I've just said. My mouth just babbles without thinking and I realise I've announced to DS (and therefore the whole of Tesco) that we need to pick up some olives and camembert from the deli before we go to the alcohol aisle and get some Pimms. blush

exoticfruits Fri 01-Feb-13 22:46:51

I think that the wrong word was used - we are talking about 'performance' parenting, not those who just happen to have a loud voice, and of course you should talk to your DC!
Performance parenting is hilarious- long may they continue to give passers by a good laugh! ( you just feel very sorry for the DC ).

DoJo Fri 01-Feb-13 22:50:55

I occasionally do it deliberately as in 'Darling, I love you more than anything in the world, and I'm finding that noise spectacularly annoying, so I'm pretty sure that these people who don't know you from Adam don't want to hear it either.' I normally talk to him at normal volume, but even then occasionally get caught out, once by a shelf stacker who snuck up behind me whilst I was saying 'Now we need to find the mung beans, and when you're older you'll understand that people who buy mung beans are called 'hippies'.'

I talk to DD constantly - and she talks back. As she only has about six words and a whole load of noises at the moment I have no choice but to imagine what she might be trying to say and respond to it. Otherwise we wouldn't have much to talk about - as it is I find we have so much in common wink.

I don't do it for the benefit of anyone but my DD and myself, and tbh if other people want to judge me for it then that's up to them. I love chatting with her, and do it just as much in the house when there is only me and her in as I do when we are out. I also talk to the dogs.

So when I'm heard in the supermarket asking her if she wants lychees or plums it's because I happen to be picking fruit and need something anything! to say. It's not because I'm trying to impress anyone, because I don't give a monkeys what anyone else thinks of me.

FWIW - we got the lychees and the plums.

16 month old DD chose both and then cuddled the punnet of lychees for the rest of the trip. I may have sounded pretentious but I was actually asking which she wanted. She went down the "two hands - two options" route and grabbed both hehehe.

LouMae Sat 02-Feb-13 00:45:45

I used to talk to ds a lot as a baby, as a single parent I had no one else to talk to!

MerryCouthyMows Sat 02-Feb-13 01:07:32

3 DC's with language difficulties, two of them with hearing issues too, and you are, by definition, a loud parent.

I don't do it for the benefit of anyone else but my DC's, and couldn't really give a crap if it makes other people think I'm pretentious or whatever.

When dc were v young I used to talk non stop explaining everything I was doing to help their language skills. They have both ended up having quite advanced language skills for their age so my effort either paid off or it was pure luck twice!

However I never did it when out with others or in front of others - they had enough language development lessons at home smile

It does rather sound like your NCT friend is trying to prove a point of some sort smile

MummytoKatie Sat 02-Feb-13 05:08:21

I do think that you are not a proper parent until you have inanely said "here's the pears - we'll buy some - they look very yummy" before realising that said child is at home with daddy.

At work I have to work quite hard to not refer to myself as "mummy".

BoomerFREEHULLYwang Sat 02-Feb-13 06:30:21

I talk loudly to anyone because I'm hard of hearing blush

hazeyjane Sat 02-Feb-13 08:54:45

Like others if you heard me sometimes out and about with ds, you would eye roll and think ,'oh god...'. Ds has no speech at all (2.7) and a delayed level of understanding, so his SALT recommends talking simply, clearly and with quite exaggerated tones. Honestly if you saw the way she looks at a book with ds, you would think she was way OTT, but it is the only way to engage ds with looking at a book.

* Because nothing is worse than a child that can't converse and has no interest in doing so.* blimey, i hope that was a joke!

HecateWhoopass Sat 02-Feb-13 08:58:20

I do a running commentary in public with my teenage children.

what's the next thing on the list
how much is that? how much do you have? how much will you have left? Well done, fab
let's put this over here.
can you see the
say thank you
don't forget to

It is in a clear, wouldn't say loud but clear strong voice.

They have autism and it's about teaching them vital life skills.

Now they are older, I imagine it is clear that something is 'wrong' (wrong being outside perception grin ) but when they were younger I am sure I looked like the worst kind of performance parent, with questions and instructions and praise.

couldn't care less.

HecateWhoopass Sat 02-Feb-13 09:01:54

oh yes, and they were non verbal for quite some years! so it was very one sided, I would just talk on and on and on, asking questions and answering them too.

Anything to get them to absorb language and to understand the need for communication.

So yes, there would have been - point to the pears, (no pointing) where are the pears (no response) here are the pears, well done. grin

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 09:11:17

op is talking about a baby, this lady seems to be a little in over drive about it - cant switch off - baby will survive in a coffee morning without it but talking to baby should be encouraged not make people feel embarrased about it.

I was on eurostar a few years ago with DD1 and a lady sidled up to me after a while and asked dd age etc - and was she talking, I said yes but only a little.

She said to me - talk talk talk talk talk and the all the things it does -because her child had some sort of delay, I know she was projecting...but she was right.

NOT talking causes more problems than talking.

Hecate as long as you werent talking about middle class things like horatias pony lessons - you would be fine.

MN's dont like over hearing " middle class chat" alotugh it might simply be what thier life is - some find it offensive.

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 09:13:13

you know reading this thread the OP friend was performing rather than being loud but anyway I think talking to your babies toddlers children is vital and i didnt give a flying fig if anybody tutted at me when mine were younger, because when they get to teens they ignore and grunt at you grin

WidowWadman Sat 02-Feb-13 09:19:26

I'm guilty of this, however you wouldn't understand what I was doing, as I do it in German - anything I can do to increase their exposure to their second language. I also sometimes, especially when they were really small, didn't realise I was doing it - which led me to 'loud-parent' an empty shopping trolley (for the baby was at home with her dad)

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 09:21:14

I used to take the young un to a soft play centre every sat AM. I. Was often one of the only blokes in there. There was a lot of .... affected behaviour which came as a bit of a shock tbh. Not sure why women do it and don't buy a lot of the nonsense on here that it is for the child's benefit. There is little or no solid evidence that constant talking to your child - especially in a loud and show-offy voice - makes one iota of difference in terms of their language development. OP - you are correct in your observation.

HecateWhoopass Sat 02-Feb-13 09:21:20

grin My first conversation with my second was the morning after he was born, when I was getting him dressed and explaining to him what socks were for.

Woman in the bed opposite, burst into tears and wailed ooooohhh, you're showing him what socks are (or something along those lines grin )

Truly hadn't been for her benefit. I don't think I'd even noticed her. I was just wrapped up in my baby.

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 09:22:00

Doing it in German - oh give me strength!!!

PoppyWearer Sat 02-Feb-13 09:25:01

I used to talk to myself the cat before the DCs were born. I'm another loon who talks to empty shopping trollies. Not loud parenting, just plain old madness smile

changeforthebetter Sat 02-Feb-13 09:27:30

<shrugs> I would rather hear a loud parent burbling on about Lin-gwee-knee <snort> than loud he said/she said, boasting about wealth or ability.

Parent engages with child - not so bad. I used to take the DDs to a poncey dance and movement thing and one mum was very loud but can't say it really bothered me.

In the greater scheme of things etc...

MerryCouthyMows Sat 02-Feb-13 09:30:47

Again, I was advised by speech therapists to talk about EVERYTHING we do, clearly and over exaggerated, in order to increase my DC's exposure to language.

And I also have 3 with ASD's, and again, I need to explain clearly, continuously, what we are doing, what will be coming next.

And 2 of those 3 DC's ALSO have hearing problems, and Auditory Processing Disorder, and, yet again, I have been advised to talk clearly, at a volume they can hear, and enunciating carefully, in order to help them hear. And the 3rd one of those DC's is waiting to get a dx of APD.

There ARE very good reasons why SOME 'Loud' parents are doing this.

OK, the lady in the OP is going overboard, and is probably rather annoying, as it DOES seem like she is doing too much, BUT surely it is better that she is talking to her DS than she ignored him and never spoke to him?

WidowWadman Sat 02-Feb-13 09:32:58

Bobby - oh, does raising my children bilingual, so that they don't only learn their dad's but also my mother tongue make me extra wanky?

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 09:33:15

sometimes I have to plead and beg some of the parents I work with to look and see their children as little people never mind loud parent them

as somebody else said in the grand scheme of things it is nothing to blether nonsense loudly to a child

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 09:33:29

"There is little or no solid evidence that constant talking to your child - especially in a loud and show-offy voice - makes one iota of difference in terms of their language development."

confused

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 09:34:12

oh, does raising my children bilingual, so that they don't only learn their dad's but also my mother tongue make me extra wanky?

<snort> sorry that made me laugh,

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 09:34:56

There is little or no solid evidence that constant talking to your child - especially in a loud and show-offy voice - makes one iota of difference in terms of their language development. OP - you are correct in your observation.

urm yeah there is

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 09:35:12

McMahon - you are EVEN DOING IT HERE

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 09:37:53

"Doing it in German - oh give me strength!!! "

Yes give me strenghth, DH is a fluent German speaker and I would LOVE him to have spoken to our child in German but he doesnt. Such a waste!

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 09:37:53

Mrsjay - no there isn't. Non scientific. There is just an assumption.

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 09:39:20

Bobby could you show us this please where you have your info from.

Do you have any children with delays or autism etc?

hazeyjane Sat 02-Feb-13 09:42:34

Bobby, if a child has a speech delay/disorder, then speaking in simple clear sentences, and sometimes using exaggerated tones is what a speech and language therapist will advise. At least that is what ds's SALT advises, and that is the way she and all the key workers in ds's sn nursery talk to the children there, along with using Makaton.

I love the idea that talking to your child in the language that one or both of the parents uses is wanky!

WidowWadman Sat 02-Feb-13 09:42:54

Bobby - do you have a source to back up your claim? How much have you read about first language acquisition?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sat 02-Feb-13 09:47:37

I am a proud and Loud parent - in terms of talking a lot to DS from when he was a baby rather than volume. Don't care. I also had the rule of never dumbing down language for him (acky, ta) so I now have a 4YO who peppers his language with four syllable words. (preens) grin

As for MC smugness, I live in an area that has a large Japanese population. We eat sushi. I wasn't aware that it was considered precious or pretentious to do so. We shop at Waitrose. Linguini is just a type of pasta eaten by most people in this country. I personally can't abide ever so 'umble reverse snobbery about things that are perfectly normal.

Yanbu.
One thing is talking to babies, another is to turn them into paedagogic esperiments.

It's linguine, btw.

WidowWadman Sat 02-Feb-13 09:50:59

isn't it 'experiments'?

Of course it is, it's the TABLET, isn't it.

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 09:59:06

what tablet have you taken Franca?

Bobby we are waiting for this amazing research.

drmummmsy Sat 02-Feb-13 10:00:20

I've been a single parent for the last 8 years - if I didn't talk to dd I'd go spare!

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 10:02:48

As for MC smugness

im not MC i lived in a Council house for years I did it I was loud and proud well maybe not loud but proud to talk to my dds ,

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 10:03:16

I am awaiting your research to prove that talking to baby's toddlers etc in a loud voice helps improve their language skills. There isn't any, there is even a book called bodyshock or something similar which debunks the whole theory or constant talking. As for person above boasting that their 4 year old talks uses four syllable words, well, all I can say is, and?? Seriously, get a grip.

CabbageLooking Sat 02-Feb-13 10:03:24

I do Loud Parenting because I am (a) loud, (b) a parent and (c) before having a child I talked to myself all the time. At least now I look a little less weird.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sat 02-Feb-13 10:05:48

I actually call linguine 'piscetti' in case anyone overhears me and thinks I'm talking to my child in too 'loud' a manner.

extracrunchy Sat 02-Feb-13 10:07:44

It's linguine btw. grin Perfect!!

grin!

something to enable me to run a commentary of my children's life for the whole day, of course.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sat 02-Feb-13 10:11:24

I like that the words linguine and language have the same source. It gives a lovely symmetry to the thread.

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 10:12:37

Yes Tond,

I wasnt sure if the " tablet" Francas taken meant she was confused between lanuague and linguni.

extracrunchy Sat 02-Feb-13 10:14:36

Bobby you sound charming.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 10:14:44

may be linguine where you are?where i am i hear the loud types say lin-gwee-knee

I am Italian, it's linguine.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sat 02-Feb-13 10:18:10

That totally settles it.

Bobby has read a BOOK somewhere ...called something ... By someone...

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 10:18:50

look we've acknowledged the medical and SALT reasons,thats not what getting laughed at
someone always gets touchy and earnestly explains how they need to loudly and clearly talk
this is the mc cringey commentary loud precocious mummies

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 10:21:10

this is the mc cringey commentary loud precocious mummies

for the last time I AM NOT MIDDLE CLASS AND I DID IT (sorry was that a bit to loud grin ) ffs this really annoys me if a parent does something specific to help their baby/child it is seen as Mc smuggery

crashdoll Sat 02-Feb-13 10:21:33

I find "oh look, Horatio, humous! Do you know which country humous comes from? What's that, darling? It goes well with olives and pitta bread, yes it does, you clever boy!" to a 4 month old hilarious.

But other 'loud' parenting, I barely notice because it is important to communicate with your children.

Bobby I wonder if you know anything about language acquisition because if you did, I'm sure you wouldn't be posting those ridiculous claims.

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 10:21:59

I am Italian, it's linguine.

Im scottish it is a packet of pasta wink

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 10:22:12

mn isnt all about you or your pure dead working classness.i live mc central i hear loud mc mummies daily

I just think it's funny. There's a woman at school who is always loud parenting about something or other, spelling out all the street signs while he stands looking in opposite direction at someone's Thomas the Tank backpack, picking his nose.

Best one was when she was wittering on at him about dewpoint. What can you see on the grass, Alexander? What is it? It's DEW, isn't it? DEW. That means it reached DEWPOINT this morning, didn't it? DEW POINT. That means it must have reached X temperature this morning, doesn't it, Alexander?

hmm

Poor little bugger isn't even two! and I've never witnessed him speak. Probably can't get a word in fucking edgewise.

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 10:24:01

or your pure dead working classness.i

oh you are a right nippy sweetie arn't you i have never said pure dead in my life, I dont care where people live I really don't I just get annoyed when class is mentioned at every turn

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 10:25:53

it was the SHOUTING and mememe,its not all mc I is working class doncha know
yes but the whole thread isnt all about you or whether or not all loud types are mc
but they cant be as you're determined we know you're working class

mamapants Sat 02-Feb-13 10:27:12

I think if you spend all day at home with a baby who can't speak it becomes habit to be able to conduct a one sided conversation. What's the alternative sitting at home silently very stimulating for baby and lots of fun for mum! Although me and partner can't help pretending to be DS telling us how silly we are.
I have to say I'm probably doubly irritating because I can't help but talk to other peoples babies too and they always smile and laugh it makes me happy to make babies/ children happy.

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 10:30:14

scottish - this isnt what this thread is about - altough what your talking about is something that has been discussed on many threads before.

This is about an over keen mum simply talking to her baby about mundane things.

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 10:31:06

Nothing to do with class. It is simply a case of whether you have a little modesty and humility and don't view bringing your child up as some kind of competition or whether you are a loud, irritating, show-off scrambling like some pathetic desperado to try and ensure young Harry gets to the top off the class.

It's a packet of pasta for me too Mrsjay grin

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sat 02-Feb-13 10:32:12

Mrs Jay I hear you and was trying to agree with you in my clumsy way. eating hummus (please don't ask me to spell that correctly) or sushi is not being middle class / pretentious for many people in this country. It's just food, so I am always surprised that on MN people consider them to represent a certain brand of MC ness. Hummus hasn't been considered exotic since the 90s surely?

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 10:33:00

do keep up eliza,see the thread is fast movig and youre not the moderator to clarify what threads are about
you dont know the mum was over keen as opposed to loud commentary.
most of us are actually describing the loud,precocious mc mummies

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 10:33:50

when i say " over keen" i mean only that she contiuned to do it at the coffee morning.

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 10:35:05

no scottish - they are not, but its a big bug bear of yours - your over hearing MC mummies and you have spoken about it at great length before.

Why dont you start to wear ear phones when you are out and about to drown these horrid MC mummies out.

I agree with Tondelayo about the food.

I agree with Bobby about competitive parenting.

WidowWadman Sat 02-Feb-13 10:36:33

All that reverse snobbery is a bit tiresome.

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 10:36:36

Tond

"Hummus hasn't been considered exotic since the 90s surely? "

Unfortunalty I think some people on here think anything more than a 60's chicken in a basket is posh. sad

LaQueen Sat 02-Feb-13 10:45:17

Relentlessly talking at your very young child (which, let's face it, is what you're doing, because they don't have the ability to comprehend, process and respond yet) really isn't going to speed up their language acquisition.

Children just need to be exposed to the normal conversation between adults, other older children talking, stuff playing on the radio/TV, etc. That's all.

MummytoMog Sat 02-Feb-13 10:51:57

Unless of course they have a speech delay like my DD in which case the best thing to do is to talk directly at her, repeating words loudly and showing her objects and naming them...

wigglybeezer Sat 02-Feb-13 10:54:33

My mother used to do it, we called it her "Jackanory" voice, it made us cringe when we were older but, of course, I do it myself all the time.

Indeed Lequeen.

And where does this need/desire to speed up a small child language acquisition come from?

LaQueen Sat 02-Feb-13 10:56:17

Mummy obviously, if there are specific issues, fair enough.

LaQueen Sat 02-Feb-13 11:00:24

I have no idea franca and it's just pointless, it's going to mean diddly-squat in the long term.

So long as the very young child is exposed to plenty of conversation between adults, other older children etc (and obviously, a bit of random Mother-ese) then they will be just as articulate, as the poor wee child whose had a parent relentlessly declaring in its face 'This is a pear, Saskia...remember we like pears don't we...say PEAR, Saskia, say PEAR...no try again, P.E.A.R...' since they were 4 months old hmm

HanneHolm Sat 02-Feb-13 11:01:35

* bows as the inventor of the term "Loud parenting" *

hazeyjane Sat 02-Feb-13 11:05:26

Children just need to be exposed to the normal conversation between adults, other older children talking, stuff playing on the radio/TV, etc. That's all.

Unless they have speech and language difficulties.

hazeyjane Sat 02-Feb-13 11:06:06

sorry crossposted with everyone else!

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 11:17:28

Laqueen you are spot on.
Re speech delay btw, my young un didn't say a word until he was 3. I just went with it, never did anything any different and certainly didn't do the talking at him thing all the time. He is now four, speaks as well as his peers.
The whole talking at them thing - seriously, there is no conclusive evidence either way that this works. I actually think it can hinder them as I certainly wouldn't like some baffoon yapping away at me like a clown all the time - it might make me tongue-tied.

crashdoll Sat 02-Feb-13 11:29:23

SALTs recommend certain techniques. I believe them, not people on MN who claim to know better. hmm

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 11:31:30

Actually Bobbybird I think ou have misunderstood LaQueens point.

I believe she is rightly saying that usually dc will just naturally pick up speech if people around them are behaving normally and interacting in a articulate, healthy way. I wholeheartedly agree with her.

But using her point to say she is dismissing any link between clear speech directed at children with speech delay as a valid form of therapy is nonsense.

ChestyLeRoux Sat 02-Feb-13 11:32:12

Anyone who has completed SALT training is advised to do it.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 11:32:48

It's actually ironic that whilst lecturing others about language you don't seem to have understood what she wrote.

extracrunchy Sat 02-Feb-13 11:33:29

I have a VERY irritating acquaintance who does the loud teachy talking all the time at her 1 year old. Not just chatting to her, which I really don't think you can find fault with, but "yes darling it's a H! H for house" (street signs - kid is 1!!) etc is just ridiculous. She also genuinely believes her DD saying "aeroplane" babystyle ("abbiyan") is actually DD saying it in French (avion) because they went there in the summer. No joke.

Annoyingly, however, said one year old is extremely articulate and well ahead of her peers with language development.

They'll level out by school age, unless there are specific language issues - but in the mean time I suspect my acquaintance will run out of friends with the patience to spend time with her.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 11:33:44

i have no bug bear, i do post about whatever.in my habitat everyone is a loud mc mummy
they travel in packs in a fug of jo malone and ugg boots.easy to discuss them
lets not make out anyone else is hear to advance observational social science or speech therapy.everyone is chewin the fat. dont pretend it any other way

crashdoll Sat 02-Feb-13 11:37:36

they travel in packs in a fug of jo malone and ugg boots

You're coming across as if you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 11:39:56

not at all,its a straight factual observation of where i live
its not a fug of impulse and jj sports trainers.that would be somewhere else
so you see you assumeim saying something else to suit or support your pov

crashdoll Sat 02-Feb-13 11:42:34

so you see you assumeim saying something else to suit or support your pov

My POV was that 'loud parenting' is not class specific. I just don't know why people make everything into a class war on here.

crashdoll Sat 02-Feb-13 11:43:22

If that's your experience then fine, but why extrapolate it across all areas? You sound snipey.

HanneHolm Sat 02-Feb-13 11:43:43

its not talking. its addressing or a commentary designed for the benefit of passers by, not the kid

we say this every time

listen! its not normal talking to your kid, which of course is lovely

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 11:44:28

beacuse its mn,we do class big time,get with the programme
mn can get class out of every damn thing.esp posting style and comments bout txt speak
mn is online chewin fat,the social observation of someone else.thats the whole point

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 11:47:25

again you can assume or say snipey to support your pov. i of course dont agree
sarky,hell yes. its not hard when observing a tribe i find funny
dp you only post impartia;,neutral,nonjudgemental class free opinion.no?no one does

crashdoll Sat 02-Feb-13 11:49:08

What's your obsession with my 'point of view'? Everything online is a point of view.

crashdoll Sat 02-Feb-13 11:49:21

*everything online on MN

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 11:52:14

Erm no pagwatch. I was agreeing with lq about the need to just be normal around children. There is nothing normal about saying everything in loud voice to them and constantly repeating things. Methinks it is you who has misunderstood my point.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 11:56:32

grin

Yes. i misunderstand.

LaQueen was talking about children with no language or speech delay.
You have extrapolated from that that she means children with speech delay don't need clear loud continuing speech.

She posted that if there is a speech delay then it is 'fair enough'.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 11:58:38

Sorry LaQueen.

I feel like I am talking about you....

grin

hazeyjane Sat 02-Feb-13 12:01:16

Bobby, great that your ds has developed speech in his own time without any intervention. My ds (2.7) has a genetic condition, part of which is speech disorder, many children with the condition are completely non verbal. Ds has had SALT since he was 10 months old, his expressive language is at the level of a 6-8 month old, although he has just started to sign, so his communication is improving, although his speech isn't. Our SALT has advised simple clear language, looking at ds, trying to catch his attention with exaggerated tones, and she points out that this is the way people often talk to very young babies,and helps with speech development.

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 12:01:40

I agree with her re the no speech delay thing.
I would go further though and add that even with speech delay thing, the communicating with them thing should be no different to a 'normal' child. I did read up extensively on this - having, as i did, child with major speech delay - and found little evidence either way.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 12:03:05

I think we should have

Loud parenting = endlessly talking at children for a variety of reasons including being a bit bored, batty or having salt thingies

And

Performance parenting = shouting self aggrandising things at your child for the sake of passers by.

There is also

Passive aggressive parenting = saying rude things about people but to your baby in order to avoid direct confrontation "yes sweetie that woman does have a face like a badgers arse and was very rude to push in front of us, wasn't she"

Bobbybird40 Sat 02-Feb-13 12:03:19

I should add I am talking only about speech delay, no other complications, conditions etc.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 12:05:23

I would rather go with the SALT teams that have taken him from non verbal to able to articulate his needs rather than your reading up and not seeing much difference either way. If that's ok.

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 12:28:03

I went with the passive aggressive parenting style. grin

I have a real urge to go to Waitrose now, just to see if I can find any performance parenting.

However, that would mean I'd have to get off my bum, get dressed and go OUTSIDE.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 12:38:50

Hahaha.

Never seen anyone admit PA parenting before!

I have seen some great ones. The ones done in a sing song voice are particularly brilliant and awful, all at the sme time.

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 12:43:22

I recommend it. My dd is fluent in sarcasm. grin

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 12:51:20

My POV was that 'loud parenting' is not class specific. I just don't know why people make everything into a class war on here.

I dont either if you think somebody is smug in their parenting say so dont bring frigging class into it,

speech delay is a developmental thing rather than parents not talking loudly or other wise to their babies, on the other hand parents who do not talk to their babies sometimes their babies will be speech and devolpmentaly delayed. child devolpment is a minefield imo and some do go OTT with it,

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 12:56:00

its mn of course everything a class war on here! have you read baby names posts
or ear piercings for children, and no one admits to ever going mcDonalds.ever
loid parebting,saskia is so clever she can sing wind bobbin up in french is a mc mummy thing

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 12:58:03

I just don't understand it

drmummmsy Sat 02-Feb-13 13:10:21

anyone else reading 'mc smuggery' etc as 'McSmuggery' i.e. like something you'd get in McDonalds?? in which case, can you still call it middle class?? wink

mrsjay Sat 02-Feb-13 13:12:02

OH LIKE A MC SMUGGERY MEAL [GRIN]

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 13:14:57

If you order a 1/4 pounder in a French accent in the Hampstead Branch you get a free McSmuggery.

drmummmsy Sat 02-Feb-13 13:16:03

grin

would that be an organic McSmuggery pag ??

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 13:16:44

Mais oui.

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 13:17:51

We go to McDonalds - do I get a prize for being the first to admit it? Also, my youngest likes a Fruit Shoot, we shop at Tesco and Sainsburys (depends where I fancy on the day) and I like Jarlsberg cheese and taramasalata. Three kids are bright as buttons, great manners, love a Happy Meal. Where, in the great scheme of 'class' things does that place us?!

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 13:19:23

McSmuggery it would be artisan fries,organic quinoa burger,with handmixed free trade jus to coat the gem lettuce

hazeyjane Sat 02-Feb-13 13:19:50

Bobby, for lots of young children with delays, you may not know they had a 'condition' for years and years. Ds has had many tests and is still having them now, his diagnosis is not fully confirmed.If a child has delayed speech, and sees a SALT they would recommend the same thing that ds's SALT advised for him.

nickelbabe Sat 02-Feb-13 13:23:19

when i refer to myself as mummy, i sound like my bloody mum.

even to the extent that i once referred to myself (the other day) as Mum'sActualFirstName.
blush

i do the loud parenting, i'm sure.
but! DD can say "Ta" when you give her something, and i did not teach her that - she must have got it from watching me serve customers.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 13:28:22

i refer to myself as mummy to the kids, as in come to mummy, hold mummy hand
i wouldn't say my actual name
nor do i do the thing were they call me my real name. instead of mummy

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 13:31:05

I think my 18 year old dd would look at me like this hmm if I started referring to myself as 'mummy' at this late stage.

Echocave Sat 02-Feb-13 13:45:18

I don't keep up a running commentary but when dd is out and about facing forwards in the buggy I have realised I'm yelling a bit to make myself heard!
Sometimes I keep talking in the hope that she will see something of interest if I think she might be about to start kicking off a bit because she wants to get out of the buggy.

I think a lot of people mumble and sometimes it makes it easier for children to understand if you enunciate clearly.

I slightly agree about slight showing off although actually think its great that someone loves their kids and wants them to learn and God forbid Bobby, do well at school!

crashdoll Sat 02-Feb-13 13:52:03

Do people say "look at me" or "look at mummy" to their children? I thought people would only say the latter when they are teaching their children who people are, when the child is older (say 5 or 6) saying "look at mummy" might sound strange.

Hobbitation Sat 02-Feb-13 14:13:20

I've gone over to "me" with DD1 (7.5) (not sure when that happened) but still more often than not "mummy" with DD2 (nearly 4).

I always talked to them when we were out even as tiny babies. People used to give me some funny looks for it too. Not in the manner set out in the OP (I hope) but more when I was on my own with them. When they were tiny I'd be saying things like "Oh, have you woken up then?" and generally telling them what I was doing "Let's change your nappy then, shall we?" Then as they got a bit bigger and were clearly understanding more I'd just make progress towards general conversation more how you would do with a grown up "It's very sunny isn't it?" As for the "loudly teaching" them stuff, well two and three year olds in particular do love the word "Why?" While parents probably do have volume control issues as you get used to a certain amount of noise, you can't avoid explaining quite a lot of stuff to them.

cheddarcheeselover Sat 02-Feb-13 14:13:49

one of the best things about always having my DDs on my front in a sling when they were small was that I could talk to them really quietly as they were so close to me. I talked to them constantly because they were right there. on the occasions they were in a buggy I felt really self conscious as I had to talk louder for them to hear.

FightingForSurvival Sat 02-Feb-13 15:26:03

Lol at passive aggressive parenting. I experienced this last year at a park. "Oh WELL DONE little Timmy. Very GOOD MANNERS" etc, when my autistic son was being not the best at waiting patiently. The classic thing was little Timmy was also playing with my other beautifully mannered child ( NT, which helps somewhat) but PA Mum assumed he belonged to someone else and nearly swallowed the plums in her chops when we all left together. To be fair, exaggerated speech probably is bet for speech development but it makes the mums seem so smug.

Hobbitation Sat 02-Feb-13 15:28:02

I had mine in a sling sometimes but not for that long at a time and only for a few months. I felt it was going to do my back in if I did it for long. My body didn't regain muscular strength for at least a year after giving birth and probably up to two years, realistically.

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 15:35:43

I live in a mixed area and I have NEVER heard or noticed performance parenting, nor at any of the masses of toddler groups or play parks or anywhere people interact.

Its odd that some people not only hear it - but seemingly all the time.

I wonder if some think they are on a kind of Trueman show -

" OK - Shes coming, cue the 4x4's, can we have the uggs and the anogora knits out first please and kids called Tarquin and Clementine....and .....ROLL"

"OK - she's about to enter Tesco - cue woman clad in desginer wear looking lost with kid doing prioutetts down the ailse - asking in a loud voice for HUMOUS....., AND ACTION".

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 15:39:05

Just to be clear, my passive aggressive parenting comment was with my tongue very much in my cheek.

I don't remember much of what I used to say to my twins before they were 1 as I was in a constant fug of 3 hours sleep a night.

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 15:39:46

Although my dd is very much fluent in sarcasm. I have no idea where she gets it from. grin

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 15:45:07

not odd in least.as you can see plenty attest they see,hear loud parents in their area
it add a certain frisson to the area,the pricy but fairtrade goods and loud parenting
maybe you need to mix with the lin-gwee-knee crew in their habitat

nickelbabe Sat 02-Feb-13 15:48:06

i think my DD will also be fluent in sarcasm grin

Come at mine!
I can make you all some niiiiiiice linguine with prawns and entertain your 9 months old babies with a detailed lecture on pasta shapes!

nickelbabe Sat 02-Feb-13 15:52:48

pasta shapes?
what, like noodles doodles?
confused

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 15:53:57

Alphabeti spaghetti?

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 15:55:42

so long as its french alphabetti pasta with accents as saskia is learning french

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 15:57:04

hahahaha grin

Dd learned French because I would sit her and her brother in front of Tots TV.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:01:44

oh no we dont do tv,the live-in slave speaks french and makes artisan bread
tv?whats that we do enriching activities like yoga,yodelling,kumon maths
and exaggerated pronunciation of words

Is Saskia still lerning french, Scottish?

Learning

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 16:03:22

Even my non-verbal ds managed to master yodelling.

It is a very under-estimated skill.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:07:52

saskia is tackling french slowly, non-fluent but maybe fluent by P1,otherwise how will she say croissant in an exaggerated manner

Saying croissant should be natural by now, Scottish, I am worried that you aren't taking Saskia to Costa cafe often enough.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:12:49

doesnt say it say it like a parisian,low guttural tones evocative of gauloises and black coffee

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 16:13:11

But surely one should only expose one's precious dahhhhrlings to small independent tea shops? hmm

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:15:59

independent only, yes selling free trade over priced artisan wares
places that reek of jo malone,were the prams are reassuringly big and expensive
and even thoiugh one can say croissant,no one eats em.transfatty poison to weans

But Manic, our independent tea room is too small and we can't fit our Bugaboos!!

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 16:18:10

And you must try these wonderful homemade biscuits. They are made from organic, artisan, free trade sawdust and beetles.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:24:04

gosh yes my fleet of bugaboo in all colours palette and reassuringly expensive
well simply block the door,and or pavement with bugaboo.what everyone else does

Narked Sat 02-Feb-13 16:27:46

'Loud parenting' to me is about what you're saying. If it's 'let's phone Daddy and tell him we need more milk' it's just the general narration thing that's good for child development.

Noisy parenting is 'No, put that one down darling, we have the organic hummus don't we!' We wouldn't want all those nasty chemicals in our food.' Or 'Look at the lovely picture. It's quite like the nice Manet we saw at the gallery isn't it darling?'

pigletmania Sat 02-Feb-13 16:31:04

I do to my dd 5 who as ASD e. g well dine good waiting, or do you want orange juice or water (loudly)

exoticfruits Sat 02-Feb-13 16:31:06

Exactly Narked-I can't see why people can't tell the difference. The child certainly can-they get the 'glazed over look' with the performance parenting. It also stops when the parent comes to the realisation that it isn't achieving anything.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:37:51

loud parenting is the unnecessary arent we sooo v clever commentary.
Hummus darling,like we had in turkey.do say Hagia Sophia again saskia
no hagia sofia ok,lin-gwee-knee for mummy

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 16:37:53

I experienced performance parenting at the year 2 Christmas party - 'Oh no [insert precious child's name] we don't have anything with additives. Here's some yummy organic breadsticks and homemade hummus'. All said very loudly, while her poor dd looked mortified at having a very small cup cake snatched from her hands.

MrsMushroom Sat 02-Feb-13 16:40:11

exotic but if I want to talk about art, sushi or nutrition with my child then I can! don't care if people judge. I want my DC to understand more than hop, hop goes the frigging froggy.

I don't talk too loudly but yes...I might mention "Not that one, we have the organic one....in the green packet." as I'm educating them about how to eat and shop.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:41:11

my kids went to a party was all hummus,carrots.asked loudly for cake and chocolate
even worse when offered a baked unflavoured crisp imposter. cried for pom bears
went to macdonaolds afterwards.for additives, and hydrogenated fats

pipsytwos Sat 02-Feb-13 16:41:59

Never heard of loud parenting before- I definitely talk a lot to dd... Really hope people don't think I do it for anyone else's benefit other than dd's. Mind you, I've got quite a quiet voice so hopefully no one hears me when I'm walking down the street singing twinkle twinkle [thinking of all the times of done that and cringing] blush

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 16:43:34

Good for you, Scottish. grin

It's all fair enough to feed children well but to deny cake at a birthday party is barbaric. Their kids will go mad for 'forbidden' food as soon as they are old enough and stuff themselves with cake.

I think that singing Twinkle Twinkle is very sweet.
Explaining a 10 months old how to wrap sushi... Well... grin!

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:49:05

at party no cake,no chocolate.but really nice home made fruit ice lolly though
but no the mum doesn't do cake,chocolate,it was all dips and crudities
her kids up to her! just mine have expectation of something from m&s thats chocolate

pigletmania Sat 02-Feb-13 16:49:57

Good on you Scottish grin. A party without proper party food is not a good party imo

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sat 02-Feb-13 16:51:25

Oh god! An ex friend who i had the misfortune of bumping into was doing this recently. "oh wingey wingey wingey, we don't like wingey do we? No we don't, we don't like wingey wingey wingey noise . . . " and on and on and on. The wingeing was actually fairly quiet and unobtrusive but the bloody woman saying so loud that she didn't like wingey wingey wingey was much more annoying! Was so loud no one could concentrate on what we were talking about and eventually all just stopped and sighed.

Winge hating woman is an arsehole generally though.

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 16:51:48

Twinkle twinkle is lovely but if you were really on the ball you'd have incorporated a rhyme about how to make sushi to the tune.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 16:53:15

how slack you didn't sing twinkle in french.you clearly dont care enough

IfNotNowThenWhen Sat 02-Feb-13 16:56:46

My loud parenting is put in use when trying to get ds round the supermarket without being nagged for magazine/sweets/toys.
"Right, go and get a baggy and get me 4 carrots. Over there, look, carrots. Four. THANK YOU!!"
"Now, where are the eggs? I can never remember. Over there? Show me then"
etc.
I get him to help me pack the shopping too. It's not showy offy, it's just a distraction technique.
My sister does the constant narration thing though. Everything is a lesson. Her children are immaculately behaved though. unlike mine!

amazingmumof6 Sat 02-Feb-13 16:58:33

I only read the first page and it made me cry.

I can't believe that chatting to a baby or a child or even singing to them in public is yet another area a parent would be judged on!

I get that the "let's eat sushi" or "counting in mandarin" show off comments are just dumb, but how communicating with your children can be seen as loud parenting or so heartlessly criticized is beyond me!

I make my kids laugh with the silliest comments and conversations & will teach them about anything I can, wherever we are and if people overhear it and judge me about it I think there's something very wrong with them!

I don't know if it's jelaousy or ignorance or envy, but it makes me feel sad.
And that it's going on in a country where people are so proud of being tolerant and PC makes it even worse.

PurityBrown Sat 02-Feb-13 16:59:32

I tick all the boxes SM is chuntering on about, middle-class, organic, artisan, lentil-weavery, art-loving, pony-riding, linguine-mispronouncing...

but the only person's benefit I'm doing it for is DS2, and tough tits to you if you don't want to hear it. Invest in a decent set of earplugs if it bothers you that much.

and stay the fuck out of my coffee shop

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 17:02:33

you cried?really?did you read thread this inst regular parent-child dialogue#you dont need to wring your hand feeling you personally can never talk to own child think youre seeking to be offended and whats world coming to,even mentioned pc

kerala Sat 02-Feb-13 17:02:37

A friend was helping professionally with a child with limited speech development. It became apparent why there were problems when the mother say "he dont speak to me so I dont speak to him". Right. He was a toddler - would much prefer loud parenting to the alternative...

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 17:04:47

its not tough tits at all its source of high amusement.and its free
the parental braying and loud commentary is soundtrack to where i live
why would i need earplugs when i need to listen to know what part to deride onmn

FreakoidOrganisoid Sat 02-Feb-13 17:08:35

I did a spot of loud parenting earlier. Purely because ds was having a massive tantrum in the shoe shop because the shoes his best mate has were too wide for his feet so he had to have a different pair. People were staring and tutting so I wanted them to know I was dealing with it appropriately grin

Oooh God, perspective!

I am all for talking to children. I just get bemused by parents overparenting: ie explaining the nutritional qualities of carrots to an 8 months old (wouldn't be bemused if the same discussion went on with a3 yr old).

Bakingtins Sat 02-Feb-13 17:11:26

Loud parenting is better than "stick them facing away from you in the pushchair with a dummy in so I can chat to my mates on my mobile" parenting, which is what I see a lot around here. I'd be giving any loud parents a mental pat on the back! There is the extreme version which is designed to show off, but if they are just chatting to their small child and trying to teach them new words, what is the problem?

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 17:11:31

The difference is that if you are doing the loud, performance parenting properly, you will not be engaging in eye contact with your child whilst spouting all this knowledge, because you will be too busy trying to make eye contact with any adult watching so that you can look smug.

This is the difference between that and normal talking to your child and teaching them things as you potter around the supermarket.

Freakoid, what did you tell him? You didn't forget to list the pros and cons of living in a consumerIst society?

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 17:12:38

some are just seeking a reason to be offended
hell if this makes you seethe or cry don't go near baby names threads
some of you have a v fragile disposition if this makes you cry or get all tough titties

I knew it! The evil forwaRd facing pushchairs! I knew they'd come up!

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 17:17:17

I was walking through a shop with DD once, about a year ago, and she said ' oh look. That looks like a Kandinsky'
The woman looked up startled and said 'it is. How do you know that'

I looked like a massive twat. I had to rush her off.
The reason she knew is because DS1 was doing work based upon Kandinsky for his GCSE and DD (trying to make him talk to her) kept saying 'what ishis name again...who did this one...is that who you want be like then, what's his name..'

To which DS1 would eventually say 'for the 100th time - it's fucking Kandinsky'

So either I looked like a snobby twat who had taken my 6 year old to do art appreciation or I let her reply 'my brother loves fucking Kandinsky' and I look like a foul mouthed harridan

grin

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 17:20:19

Manicbmc

That is true. Performance parenting is about the audience not the baby.

I was performance parenting with DS1 once and he vomited in my mouth. I totally deserved it. It was like karma.
grin

MrsMushroom Sat 02-Feb-13 17:21:07

Amazing some children really DO like Sushi! It's not "dumb" to talk to them about where they're eating or what they're eating! My older DD has loved Sushi since she was tiny.

Sorry if that offends. Not.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 17:22:46

yes loud parenting isnt necessarily for child,its all look(hear) how right-on,parent is

See Pag, I would have thought your dd to be very cool.

Of course lots of children like sushi. No one gets hocked by that.

Shocked

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 17:25:07

She is pretty cool.
She just doesn't know much about art and has said 'fuck' more often than she probably ought grin

FrameyMcFrame Sat 02-Feb-13 17:27:20

No, talking to your baby is FINE smile

It's the parents who 'performance talk' to their babies. It's loud enough so no one in the area could possibly not notice what a fucking great parent they are

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sat 02-Feb-13 17:30:28

amazingmumof6

Its not talking to children that i object to, its doing in unnecessarily loudly! So loud that those around can't hear themselves think. You know when you try to add up and someone near you starts counting and you lose track, its like that.

Its really nothing to cry about.

As for forward facing pushchairs! My dcs had them. I used to still chat away to them and them back, would lean over or stop buggy and get down to their level if appropriate. Just because a child is facing away from you doesn't mean you can't communicate but does mean the child sees more of the world around them which in turn prompts conversation and observation, so not all bad, if at all.

exoticfruits Sat 02-Feb-13 17:32:10

Well-I am pretty glad that people don't know (or won't admit) a difference because I can continue to be entertained by it!

(I used to go around the supermarket counting carrots into bags etc but no one would ever have heard except my DCs or someone standing right next to us-there is no need for the whole aisle to hear)

fuckadoodle, nooooooo! You are opening a can of worms with the forward facing buggies topic grin

amazingmumof6 Sat 02-Feb-13 17:33:38

Mrs Mushroom - I was referring to a previous poster saying about a mum who appeared to be showing off.

I agree with some of the posters who said that using a child to show off is annoying.

I was also trying to point out that educating them about whatever is important to you or interests them shouldn't be criticized.

sorry if that wasn't clear!smile

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 17:35:48

right so you've stopped crying?can you compose yourself to stay?
can you genuinely see this isnt the normal parental-child dialogue thats being discussed

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sat 02-Feb-13 17:37:03

Ha ha! grin I didn't start it!

bruffin England Sat 02-Feb-13 17:37:24

Cambridge seems full of loud parents.
Last time we went there was a fenton on the train who every movement was commented on.
Today Ds 17 and I went to the zoology museum and It was full of parent saying that's a hippotomous say hippotomous Emily.
Ds and i ended up rescuing Emily as she was out the front door without her mother noticing. We stood for a few minutes stopping her and her even smaller brother going out and the mothervdidnt turn round once to see that they were doing.

FrameyMcFrame Sat 02-Feb-13 17:42:28

It's actually really oppressive to other children and parents in the vicinity because the loud parenters use up all of the decibel space so no one else can talk or listen!

I really hate it actually

exoticfruits Sat 02-Feb-13 17:44:09

You do see lots of parents who are fully engaged with their children and obviously talking all the time-they get it right because you can't actually hear what they are discussing.

exoticfruits Sat 02-Feb-13 17:45:14

Not to mention oppressive to their own DCs, Framey-they must want peace and quiet to think!

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 17:48:28

"a Fenton on the train" bruffin?

Was the 'Fenton , Fenton , Jesus Christ Fenton ..' shouted across the train distracting.

IfNotNowThenWhen Sat 02-Feb-13 17:52:12

And everyone knows it's a Hippo-Bottomous anyway bruffin.

Right, next time I namechange it's going to be either BaconyKnees or FuckingKandinsky grin

amazingmumof6 Sat 02-Feb-13 18:11:02

scottishmummy my culture is different, so whatever is normal to me will raise eyebrows time and again.

I have spent the last 15 years trying to figure out what is "normal" in this country. It is not easy.

I do not look to be offended, but I'm a sensitive person and the thought of being sneered at because I do or say things or behave in an unusual way hurts my feelings.

that's about the size of it.

WidowWadman Sat 02-Feb-13 18:31:26

pagwatch - what's wrong with taking a six year old into a gallery, or even let them learn the names of painters whose work they like? It's no different to a child knowing everything about dinosaurs/tractors/whatever else takes their fancy.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 18:39:25

There is nothing wrong with it. I've done it. As it goes DD loves the Tate.

It was just funny. In the situation she sounded horribly precocious. But I knew she was also likely to say fucking Kandinsky.

It was just an anecdote. Not everyone on the thread is after a barney.

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 18:40:42

I used to love it when my dad took me round the galleries in London, when I was six.

All that beautiful art to take in... and all those naked bottoms. grin I was soooo cultured.

I remember a trip to the Cuttysark around the same time. My brothers went off with my dad learning all about life on the ship whilst I stayed with my mum and played with the ship's cat.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 18:42:49

i like kelvingrove galleries,used to go there as wean
crackin big exhibits and musty ole charm
good caffs near by on dumbarton rd

WidowWadman Sat 02-Feb-13 18:45:00

pag sorry - didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you, just puzzled by why actually it seems to be generally cringeworthy if children know or are taught stuff which is perceived as 'highbrow'. Almost as if an education is something to be embarrassed about.

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 18:47:30

Dd once informed an RSPB tour type person that the bird she had been telling everyone was a young Herring Gull was, in fact, a female Eider duck. She was 6 and really into her birds.

She didn't say 'fuck' though. She does now though, a lot. hmm

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 18:48:12

It's alright WidowWadham.
No problem

smile

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 18:56:29

Wow, there are some nasty, cutting remarks on this thread. I love how people think it's fine to be this way online, but would never speak to people like that in person. It sickens me that people have expressed upset at some of the comments on here and then been really nastily responded to. I wonder what kind of comments I might get for writing this (and can already picture 'who' will respond!). Some cowardly people about.

For the record, my DD (11) loves going to Birmingham Art Gallery (despite me knowing bugger all about art and never 'teaching' her about it, loudly or otherwise). She's always been a forward child and her own Dad has called her posh on more than one occasion! Some kids just soak up everything they get exposed to and my DD is one of those. Doesn't make me a some smug middle class Mum though. Too much judging going on here methinks.

I have nothing against children being exposed to "highbrow" topics.

I object to 10 months old being talked to, or having things explained as if they were 5, or 21 in many cases I had the chance to witness.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 19:02:59

Worriedmummy73

You do get that no one was being rude about going to galleries don't you?

Yes?

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:06:07

again some of you are determined to think this is a detraction of you,your parenting
there is wilful misreading,and seeking offence going on,unless you are aloud parent
repeatedly people have said this isnt the usual parental rapport this has been wilfully ignored to maximise offence and affronted how dare you stance

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:06:24

Pag, no, that's not what I was referring to - there was a lot of defending of that topic actually.

I meant that one Mum said the responses made her cry and the nastiness directed her way was awful, as if she'd mentioned drowning kittens or supporting euthanising the disabled ffs.

I just think people are very quick to make nasty remarks because they're online that they wouldn't necessarily make in real life.

GeorgiaC11 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:06:32

I see where your coming from about what parents are saying to their babies but its such a natural instinct to talk to them all the time.

Although I always ended up talking to my DD when she was tiny in such a high voice, I tended to forget I was in public making silly squeaking noises and singing! hmm

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 19:11:05

Thats good. I just wasn't sure why you needed to talk about your DD going to a gallery as if anyone would disapprove or think it was odd.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:13:26

oh i see worried mum,you want to be offended on someone else behalf?
so you havent directly been offended but since you reckon someone else was you pile in
given the poster concerned hasnt raised any particular gripe,i fail to see why you do

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:16:18

Scottish, I like how you know exactly who/what I'm talking about! Actually, I'm making the point that people think it's fine to make bitchy/cutting remarks when it's online talk. I'm not 'offended' on anyone's behalf - I just find this kind of behaviour offensive. And I don't think for a second that you'd take that aggressive tone with me if we were talking face to face!

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:18:10

its online,i dont have a tone with you, we do however have the words on the screen

exoticfruits Sat 02-Feb-13 19:22:00

People persist in misunderstanding! I took mine to art galleries-museums etc -why wouldn't you? confused
The loud parent isn't listening to the DC-they are not taking up the cues-they are not giving them time to think-they are giving a monologue that just becomes background noise and the DC opted out long before! You never hear the child's voice in performance parenting, and when they do find one the parent gives up because the child isn't giving the 'approved' answers! i.e. they are childlike in response and not out to impress the casual listener.

exoticfruits Sat 02-Feb-13 19:22:46

I also can't think that addressing a child with delayed speech as if they were a public meeting is much help!

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:23:04

Scottish, that's no argument, given that writing DOES have tone to it. Otherwise how would people study literature? One of the things you look for is tone in the language used. So yes, you do have a tone in your writing and it's quite sarcastic and belittling to others at times. And yes, I find that offensive. As for the words you use, would you use those words in a face to face conversation? I think not. Not unless you're constantly arguing with people in reality!

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:25:38

would i say this in rl,you bet
i think loud parenting is v peculiar,and undertaken quite conspicuously
why would i seek to downplay this pov in rl. i do laugh about loud parents in rl

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 19:29:26

Exotic

It probably wouldn't ifit really is a public address tone of voice.
Like I said upthread, when the tone and content seems designed to be overheard it isn't for the child.

But (fwiw) i was actually told to speak loudly and clearly to ds.
Part of his problem wasn't just failing to repeat language but he struggled to hear speech clearly amidst background noise. It's an auditory processing thing - he couldn't screen out ambient noise but we had to kep getting and maintaining his attention.

It did make me look like a wanker sometimes but I didn't mind really. Same old.. grin

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 19:29:38

Some people have completely got the wrong end of the stick about loud performance parenting.

No one here has said anything belittling about talking to your child or using very clear enunciation (especially with SEN children).

It is specifically those parents who are not engaging with their children/babies but are talking very loudly AT them and then looking around to see who is watching and then looking smug.

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:29:54

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

amazingmumof6 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:30:22

worriedmummy73 thank you

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:31:57

lets be clear im not getting into a verbal you say i say with you
im not biting
youre trying too hard its obvious

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:34:39

Trying to hard at what exactly? And would you look at that - a thank you from amazingmumof6 for taking her side. So yeah, looks like maybe she WAS offended by your, frankly, obnoxious and bordering on bullying comments but maybe didn't feel up to taking you on herself. By making the comments you made, you WERE biting. End of.

JollyRedGiant Sat 02-Feb-13 19:35:14

I figure that a 3 month old is not going to understand anything I say. So why shouldn't I talk about complex mathematical theory if it's what interests me?

You are being a bit disingenuous here Worried, we all cross the line often on MN, it is one of the reasons while we like it.

On MN it is easier to be understanding, generous, sarcastic, and unfortunately rude at times, than in RL

FrameyMcFrame Sat 02-Feb-13 19:37:08

WorriedMummy, seems like it's you who are doing the attacking here not scottishmummy!
Your 'tone' is pretty aggressive!

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 19:37:19

Yes, but do you do it sufficiently loudly and then look around for applause? grin

Why, not while.
The tablet is wearing off...

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:38:32

talk about what you want frankly,as repated on thread its not the talking
its the loud,conspicuous delivery,this isnt mums talkin to their kids
this isnt about whether or not you talk,sing,go galleries.but its already been explained

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:38:34

Franca - but it's not ok if it's having a go at someone who said they were genuinely upset by comments made. That's just nasty. And being online only makes it worse because it's cowardly. Just because it's online that doesn't make it ok to be rude.

Tensixtysix Sat 02-Feb-13 19:39:34

I just want to say 'Oh FFS shut up woman!'

FrameyMcFrame Sat 02-Feb-13 19:39:47

JollyRedGiant, nobody minds anyone talking about anything to a baby...

It's when they DO IT SO LOUDLY for the benefit of the general public rather than the baby.

aarrrhggg

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:41:30

Framey - no, aggressive would be 'bring it on', 'I'm going to get you' stuff. Why is it ok to have a go at someone who says they were upset? But I'm being aggressive? Weird.

bruffin England Sat 02-Feb-13 19:43:27

That's the type of parenting at the museum today the exotic. The children wernt showing any interest at all the mum was talking at them and was ignoring them completely when they were making their escape.
Yes Pagwatch on the train it was distracting, it was distracting. It was both parents loudly parenting Fenton. We weren't sitting next to them we were half a carriage away and all you could hear was Fenton this and Fenton that. Fenton was a baby and spilt his drink and everyone in the carriage got to know about grin

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 19:44:22

You are accusing another poster of being aggressive even though she has not used the phrases 'bring it on' and 'I'm going to get you' or similar. But you are aghast that anyone would accuse you of the same. hmm

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:44:39

Oh, the baby was called Fenton! I thought it was a kind of person, like a chav! I was very confused...

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:45:12

i quite like fenton as a name, dont they make ginger beer

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:45:50

I'm not aghast in the slightest. But she had a go at me for defending someone else and now you're defending her? Interesting dynamic here.

Pagwatch Sat 02-Feb-13 19:45:56

At least he wasn't chasing deer.

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:46:34

Pag - ahahahahahahaha! Thanks for the reminder of that dog, priceless.

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 19:48:31

I'm not defending anyone. I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of your accusations.

yggdrasil Sat 02-Feb-13 19:49:32

its highly fucking annoying, I totally agree actually.

I never pulled this shit with mine and they can all talk. I'm not sure that counts as a stealth boast as they are all school age.

yggdrasil Sat 02-Feb-13 19:49:52

oh sorry YANBU

bruffin England Sat 02-Feb-13 19:49:58

Yep the baby was called Fenton.
I think of Fenton Solicitors scottismummy. They are forever advertising on the radio

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:50:20

but it is funny, in a sniggery omg way

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:51:40

I didn't actually accuse anyone - I just said that there were some nasty and cutting comments on here. If anyone took that as an accusation against them (when I patently named no names) then maybe they had something to feel guilty about - ie, something they might have posted in this thread. I stand by my original point, that is people are more sarcastic and biting online than they ever would be in real life. That is the point I was making and the comments further up this thread support what I've said.

yggdrasil Sat 02-Feb-13 19:53:24

it IS funny, I agree, but far more so if you have another mum of older kids to snigger with.

if you are on your own trying to quietly read a book its a real PITA.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 19:56:39

observing loud parenting it is free and plentiful where i live.love it
say lin-gwee-knee darling was overhead in supermarket, was priceless

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 19:57:13

In that case, who is 'she'? hmm

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:57:50

I heard a Mum call one of her children 'dahhhhhhhling' very loudly earlier. It is difficult not to turn and look really quickly!

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 19:59:27

'she' is Scottishmummy, who jumped in when I made my original point, where I named no one and accused no one specific. If you read my original post, you'll see that I mentioned no one in particular, just commented that remarks were nasty and cutting.

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 20:00:52

I'm talking about your subsequent exchanges.

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 20:02:16

Manic - what about our subsequent exchanges? I've completely lost the thread of what we were talking about now.

amazingmumof6 Sat 02-Feb-13 20:02:22

I said I cried

scottishmummie's reply was "you cried?really?did you read thread"

then later " right so you've stopped crying?"

I found that rude.

I hope this clarifies things.

* worriedmummy73* - again thank you

IfNotNowThenWhen Sat 02-Feb-13 20:04:15

My mum called us all dahhhling, very loudly at all times. I think that was because she had lots of children, so she didn't have to remember our names!
V. V embarrassing when you are 12 though!--still embarrassing now--

manicbmc Sat 02-Feb-13 20:04:34

A bit of gentle ribbing. Hardly a reason for all this fuss really.

I can't be bothered with all this toing and froing with she said, she did. I get enough of that in work.

Things to do. Monsters to kill.

WorriedMummy73 Sat 02-Feb-13 20:06:01

My friend's Dad used to call me 'sunshine' which I loved til my friend told me he called all kids that (including his own 5) cos he couldn't remember who he was talking to. With me and my siblings (there are 4 of us) it was 'piglet' or 'spodge'. Cute, until you realise your Dad doesn't remember your name!

amazingmumof6 Sat 02-Feb-13 20:11:27

manicbmc - gentle ribbing is generally followed by smiles & grins

there was none, and I found the comments rude and unnecessary.

<back to friendlier waters>

Leafmould Sat 02-Feb-13 20:12:40

FENTIMAN's ginger beer, that's the stuff. They are now producing alcoholic ginger beer.

I apologise for laughing out loud at op's gin related comments, and also for not reading all 14 pages of the thread.

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 20:14:21

not had the alcoholic ginger beer! but fentimans old cola is really nice

LineRunner Sat 02-Feb-13 20:18:08

I found the actual OP made me smile. Like this smile

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 20:20:16

thought the op was laugh out loud funny

exoticfruits Sat 02-Feb-13 20:21:53

You do need to enunciate clearly, and probably quite loudly, to a DC with language problems BUT you also need to look at them and make sure they are listening. The performance parent just talks on regardless- the child works out early on that nothing is needed in return, and in fact it is better not to try, and they just let it wash over them. I have never heard a response from a DC when it is a performance parent - it is all one way and they are never quiet enough to pick up any cues from a baby.

Glittertwins Sat 02-Feb-13 20:35:10

Oh dear, I'm going to sound bad. I usually have to talk loudly over DD (usually)when DS has asked me a question and wants an answer but DD just won't even pause for breath. Even DS complains about her "chatter boxing" . I have no idea how many people must have heard about the water cycle done for 4 year olds but I can assure you, I wasn't trying to show off, I was just trying to answer questions without gagging DD.

hazeyjane Sat 02-Feb-13 21:17:54

But, exotic fruits, that (ie the performance parenting that you describe) isn't what is in the op. The woman in the op is doing that sort of running commentary thing that people do, when they are just kind of babbling away at their babies.

exoticfruits Sat 02-Feb-13 22:24:33

I went to coffee mornings when mine were babies but would have given up if every mother carried on like that!

BourbonsandTea Sat 02-Feb-13 22:26:31

I do it to occupy my boisterous, curious toddler "Oh look at that picture. How many yellow bags can you count? Lets sing a song. Twinkle Twinkle.." Otherwise I have to resort to the other kind of loud parenting "Oi- get back here! stop running around! Put that down!" Which would you rather hear? Not all kids are naturally easygoing smile DD has also been complimented on her ability to communicate.
I do know what people mean about Latin and Caviar though - but that's a different kind of parenting altogether imo.

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 22:47:03

I would dearly dearly love to know where some of you live, just to experience this amazing loud parenting.

I really truelly cannot understand the mindset of anyone - saying things to thier children that are false or exagerated - just for thier audience which seems to include so many of you on here? confused

elizaregina Sat 02-Feb-13 22:49:38

Bourbon,

Be very, very, careful when you are saying...."oh look at that picture", it could be construed as prententcious by your ....^listeners^...depending on the picture of course....

scottishmummy France Sat 02-Feb-13 22:50:22

any poncy fair tradey caff,or mothers group,sling meet all the loud parents hang there

elizaregina Sun 03-Feb-13 00:19:06

oh I see, well I dont go to cafes or sling meets - whatever they may be?

And all the mothers groups I have been to have had a range of types of people there but parenting in the special way you describe is something I have never come across.

FrameyMcFrame Sun 03-Feb-13 13:49:13

Lucky you eliza, last time I had to go to the local baby clinic there was a woman doing performance parenting in the waiting area. She was so loud, none of the other Mums could speak to each other or their babies because it was a none stop loud monologue of LOUD SHITE.

nickelbabe Sun 03-Feb-13 13:57:19

I do it a lot. but I always think of mn when I do it, so it's proper exaggerated grin

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sun 03-Feb-13 15:13:05

Worriedmummy73

What are these cutting comments towards amazingmumof6 that you mentioned? I didn't notice anything cutting. I can't help but think you have misunderstood or perhaps not read the thread seeing as you thought that it was about criticising people who take their kids to museums. Which of course its not at all. If you don't understand the thread how could you understand the comments?

extracrunchy Sun 03-Feb-13 16:45:51

Worriedmummy and amazingmum - I'm with you. And quite surprised at the support certain posters' nasty comments are getting.

exoticfruits Sun 03-Feb-13 17:01:05

I'm still surprised that people can't differentiate and have no idea what constitutes a 'performance parent'. (Everyone should be talking to their DC, visiting museums, speaking clearly etc-that is not loud/performance parenting).

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sun 03-Feb-13 17:09:57

extracrunchy. What exactly are these nasty comments? You and they have mentioned them but not actually quoted any.

Pagwatch Sun 03-Feb-13 17:11:07

If anyone feels a post is nasty or constitutes a personal attack they are supposed to report it.
Mnhq ask that you do.

It is much more productive than veiled complaints about 'certain posters' and as the virtue of not turning the thread into a sort of whine.

MidnightMasquerader Sun 03-Feb-13 17:13:11

Oh, these threads always going the same way, with a load of disingenuous types pitching up, seemingly not being able to differentiate...

T'was ever thus. If they want to be offended, let them get on with it, I say. Everyone's happy. smile

Boomerwang England Sun 03-Feb-13 19:38:21

I'm in the mood to make a nasty post so that some posters actually have something to complain about. Until that happens, A Grip, Therefore I Go.

Hobbitation Mon 04-Feb-13 12:40:18

Some people definitely can't differentiate IRL though, or think it's inappropriate to talk
at all to a baby or young child, which makes me sad. Talk to, not at. Interact with.

Otherwise you wouldn't need an "Every Child a Talker" campaign.

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 12:44:13

Yes Hobbitatoin and the vitriol aimed at those who talk to thier children can make SOME people self conscious to talk to thier child at all.
sad

fromparistoberlin Mon 04-Feb-13 12:46:56

The great thing about winter is there is noone in the park to hear me parent loudly!!!

I agree at least they speak to kids and give a shit

Pagwatch Mon 04-Feb-13 12:54:30

Do you know, I hate to seem argumentative but I honestly don't believe that.

I don't think vitriol is thrown at people who talk to their babies. It isn't on here and it isn't in real life.

I understand that people can feel as though the 'loud parenting' thing is being aimed at them but I think that is a misunderstanding on what some on this thread are joking about.

Maybe, until you have seen and really noticed some 'performance parenting' it s hard to get that it is actually quite ridiculous - and not at all an engaged parent chatting happily with their child.

But I genuinely don't believe anyone mocks parents chatting to their child. And no one aims vitriol at performance parenting - this is an on line gawfaw at the preposterousness of it. And I can say that as I have admitted doing it grin

As I say, I am not trying to argue buto suggest that parents will stop talking to their much loved child because of a bit of on line snurking is overly dramatic.

Hobbitation Mon 04-Feb-13 13:05:07

I don't think people on here will, but some people are afraid to speak up in public lest people overhear and judge them. I know as I used to be like this in my teens and into my 20s.

There is so much judgement about parenting anyway - more than there ever used to be, IMO - usually based on a snapshot of someone's life you might see when out and about) and parents are regularly undermined in the media. So it's no wonder people feel the need to pronounce their 'good' parenting to others or feel less than confident about chatting with kids.

trustissues75 Mon 04-Feb-13 13:08:26

Well, at least she's communicating with her child...but oh dear God!!!! That would drive me insane

Pagwatch Mon 04-Feb-13 13:08:27

Yes Hobbitation. I agree with about parenting being endlessly judged. Especially in the media. As soon as an accident/incident occurs the behaviour/attitude of the parents is judged. It's grim.

I was just responding to the idea that this thread could do that

trustissues75 Mon 04-Feb-13 13:09:23

NOt to mention it sound like they are talking AT their child rather than To them.

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 13:12:11

I agree Hob, and people think its a good idea to talk to baby may now feel more self counsciouse in case someone is watching them - listening to them and thinking they are a twat.

I have to admit until I came on here I never ever thought someone might be actually listening to me talk to MY baby and thinking something of it!

aldiwhore Mon 04-Feb-13 13:30:33

I used to do this. Mostly it was just chit chat with this little human I suddenly had who didn't understand but seemed to like my voice. Sometimes it was a bandaid over the oft felt crushing lonliness you can encounter when it's just you and a small person who dribbles and poohs. Sometimes it was my insecurity and lack of confidence showing, a kind of "I am doing this right, am I doing this right?" and occassionally it was done on purpose when I was around others who spoke to their children not at all, or those who looked like they were getting their judgeypants in a twist over something or other. (Whether they were judging or not I don't know, some probably weren't).

It IS funny to listen to, sometimes annoying but it's harming no one.

I had a lovely cup of coffee and a chat with a complete stranger and her baby a few weeks ago, maybe you could say hello instead of slag them off on some forum? Although if you start doing that to every mum who's speaking to their child, you'll probably come on here and find a thread about how annoying people who 'seem to think you want to talk to them' are.

You can't win.

LaQueen Mon 04-Feb-13 13:50:33

You know, very young children really don't need to be stimulated and distracted every moment of the day...they really don't.

Keeping up a relentless, constant stream of 'Look at that car, it's red...oh, look a dog, nice dog...shall we go in this shop...look at all those oranges...look at all the nice green grapes...do you want to hold the grapes...look at that little baby...etc, etc...is just pointless.

Why are parents so terrified of their children just sitting and observing for a few minutes? They're not going to implode if they are not constantly being distracted/entertained/enaged with...

All too often parents create children who need constant distraction/stimulation...and before you know where you are, you have a 3/4 year old who can't travel 20 minutes in a car without a DVD playing, and their fave Barney CD playing on a loop hmm

And, further down the line you have 5/6/7 year olds who are incapable of occupying/entertaining themselves for even 15 minutes...because their parents have constantly provided a dizzying plethora of entertainments, and stimulations and distractions and activities...filling just about every waking moment.

'Oh, it's Tuesday, so we have Tumble Tots, followed by Toddler Splash...then Gymborree...then it's the park...then Baby French - she's always so exhausted by the end of Tuesdays...' No shit, Sherlock hmm

Then, as they get to school 'Yes, we have gym club on Mondays, followed by piano, then we can just about squeeze in swimming...but, then it's the full swimming session on Tuesday, followed by ballet...then Wednesdays it's Dance Club, then trampolining...Saturdays, we have football, then it's cricket nets...then swimming...

These poor kids are fryed to the eyeballs, and hyped on excessively busy schedules. They. Don't. Know. How. To. Just. Be.

Young childrem need downtime, to process their thoughts, and reflect and ponder a bit...they need to just chill out, and doodle quietly, and sift through the contents of a box in their playroom, or stare out of a window...

They don't need some anxious, over-zealous parent wittering in the background 'Come on, come down stairs Cressida, shall we do some baking before your ballet class, or why not practice your violin...shall we read a book...?'

LaQueen Mon 04-Feb-13 13:54:24

To illustrate - went shopping with my Auntie yesterday, she has 10 year old grandsons, who need constant attendence/stimulation...

All day she felt she had to be in Entertainer Mode with my DDs - she couldn't get her head round the fact that they could simply sit down and enjoy an hour long lunch, without needing a 3-Ring circus performing for them - and that no our shopping trip didn't need punctuating with 2 separate trips to the Play Area, actually.

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 13:57:53

Maybe the parent lets them observe most of the day whilst they are doing other things round the house - or working from home and when they go out the parents sees THATS the time to really chat and do the talking thing, because the parent has nothing else to do at that moment except focus on her child.

I agree with Pagwatch.

I do occasionally slip into performance parenting. I am totally aware of that. Thankfully I am not devoid of sense of humour and happily laugh at my occasional smuggery.

atthewelles Mon 04-Feb-13 14:20:57

I haven't read the whole thread (oh c'mon it's 16 pages. I have a life) but I think its usually easy to tell the difference between a parent who's just casually interacting with their child (OK Josh, give the lady the packet of sweets so we can pay for them) and the type who's performing in front of an audience (Now Josh. What do we do with the sweets? Do we give them to the lady? Yes, we do, don't we? We do give them to the lady. Because we want to pay for them, don't we?').

And I agree with LaQueen. Some kids mustn't even know any of the other children on their road or have any inner resources whatsoever because they spend their time in the back of the car being driven from Joejingles to Waterbabies to ToddlerTennis to piano to extra french to speech and drama etc etc etc. A grandparent wanting to take them to a pantomime nearly has to book an appointment three months in advance.

kerala Mon 04-Feb-13 14:56:59

I did it once on the train on my first train trip alone with DD (aged 4). Look at the sheep darling, theres a river etc etc eventually DD said "can you just be quiet please mummy" blush

Pagwatch Mon 04-Feb-13 15:14:39

Hahahahaha at Kerlas DD.

grin

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 15:32:37

maybe keralas dd caught sight of some woman rolling her eyes to the high heavens and shifting in her seat thinking " here we go - some horrid LOUD paretning about to go on here"...so the poor child felt compelled to ask her mother to be quiet. ?

Or maybe she just wanted to hear the sound of her own thoughts...

Pagwatch Mon 04-Feb-13 16:20:26

I think Kerlas DD sounds fantastic. But most 4 year olds are not really able to recognise eye rolling, extrapolate from that that the person rolling their eyes is irritated by loud parenting and translate that into social embaressment sufficient to ask her mother to desist an activity she was thoroughly enjoying.

She might I suppose. Maybe that was why DS1 threw up in my mouth - so advanced and acutely mortified by my yammering on that he regurgitated as e not yet developed adequate speech to convey his mortification.

Fucking genius baby I had.

manicbmc Mon 04-Feb-13 17:20:17

What LaQueen said.

I see so many children (school age) who haven't got the foggiest idea of how to entertain themselves because their parents have played the court jester from birth.

nickelbabe Mon 04-Feb-13 17:32:14

Pagwatch has an extremely good point there.

most children would find constant commentary when out and about over stimulating - think about it, they're in a relatively new place (it's unlikely you'd go to the same place every single day), so they're already topped up with learning experiences - new lights, new smells, new things to look at, maybe new things to touch.
if you then pile in on them with your own observations, you will most likely tire the child out and make them fractious and whiney (or they'll cry/tantrum)

so, when you go somewhere new, wait for their cues - the child should be able to let you know when they need to interact with you, same as when they're hungry or need a new nappy.

DD is mostly quite happy to be left to her own devices, even in this shop where we spend all day. she'll happily eat, drink, play with stuff without my interaction. when she wants me to talk with her, she'll get my attention and I'll play with her, read to her, or pull her up on my knee and show her what I'm doing. when she's had enough, she whines to be let down again.

nickelbabe Mon 04-Feb-13 17:32:41

ooops, sorry LaQueen blush

Pagwatch Mon 04-Feb-13 18:59:29

grin

Yes though - I agree with LaQueen too.

I remember my mum saying to me 'will you just let him be for a bit'. It was great advice

exoticfruits Mon 04-Feb-13 19:22:45

Wonderful post LeQueen! Every time I see the 'performance parent' the DC is taking no part at all-you can see that they don't listen-they just let it wash over them. They need time to process it all-they give up listening because before they have even thought about what is being said the parent has moved on to the next.
I am a person who likes time by myself and silence-the mother who keeps up a running commentary of what she is doing would drive me demented!
One of my favourite sayings was 'as a mother I am a lot of things but I am not your chief entertainer'!

It is like everything-in moderation. Talk but listen, and give a bit of benign neglect. You wouldn't want a friend who rambles on and never lets you get a word in edgeways or never has a silence and I can't imagine why a baby or toddler are any different.

scottishmummy France Mon 04-Feb-13 19:32:03

despite reassurance this isn't regular parental rapport
some are determined to do thesadface,sagely recall all they're doing is talkin
oh but the ridicule,vitriol inhibits the regular aren't,they feel so put upon.professionally offended

LaQueen Mon 04-Feb-13 19:56:19

Thanks All smile

I just feel so sorry for these children, relentlessly whisked to and fro to all these activities. And all the time, their parents are just deluging them in stuff and more and more stuff....every moment must be accounted for...every activity comes with a long list of accessories...trips to the activities...trips to buy the accessories...packing and unpacking the accessories...

And, yet so rarely do the parents actually take time to just listen properly to their child, and just watch and look at their child.

Instead, the parent is driving the train, and stoking the fire like a maniac, and above the roar and the noise and the steam, they simply can't hear or see their child who is sat back in carriage no. 3.

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 20:05:07

"Instead, the parent is driving the train, and stoking the fire like a maniac, and above the roar and the noise and the steam, they simply can't hear or see their child who is sat back in carriage no. 3. "

Love your little story there - but this of course is totallly differnet to a mum talking to her baby about mundane stuff at an NCT meet up!

scottishmummy France Mon 04-Feb-13 20:09:17

this isn't thread about regular parental rapport.it's the loud,yappy show off parent
irrelevant where it happens,what's of note is volume,content,drone,performance
this is the performance for onlookers,talking at not to the chikdv

LaQueen Mon 04-Feb-13 20:15:04

Well, exactly exotic - would people feel relaxed/comfortable in the company of a friend who relentlessly babbled on about everything and anything, rarely stopping to listen before jumping to the next topic...and the next...and the next?

No, of course they wouldn't...

The best/strongest friendships are where you can enjoy comfortable silences together...and where your rapport is so good that often just a half-smile, or a glance in their direction can accurately convey a 1000 words.

I'm like you - I enjoy my own company and I'm quite self contained, so I never babbled relentlessly at my DDs, and I didn't really talk at them. To be honest, I always listened, a lot more than I ever talked. But, when I talked, I talked to them.

LaQueen Mon 04-Feb-13 20:18:31

eliz why would the Mum at a NCT meet-up be talking to her baby all the time, when there are other Mums at the meet-up to chat to?

Babies/toddlers learn best when exposed to normal, adult conversations and exchanges - with adult intonations, inflections, rhytmns etc.

It's far better for them to hear that style of conversation than empty Motherese 'Yes, look at dolly...dolly...it's a dolly, isn't it...try and say dolly...say dolly...dolly...'

LaQueen Mon 04-Feb-13 20:19:37

Rhythm sorry...

WidowWadman Mon 04-Feb-13 20:50:36

La Queen

"Babies/toddlers learn best when exposed to normal, adult conversations and exchanges - with adult intonations, inflections, rhytmns etc.

It's far better for them to hear that style of conversation than empty Motherese 'Yes, look at dolly...dolly...it's a dolly, isn't it...try and say dolly...say dolly...dolly...'"

Have you a source to back this up? From what I've read hearing conversation without being addressed and interacted with does not do much for language acquisition, otherwise children who are plonked in front of TV instead of spoken with would pick up language easily from there. Children need to be spoken to in order to work out how language works.

This is not to say that parents should never have adult conversations at a toddler group, that'd be silly. But saying that not talking to your child (motherese or not) is better than talking to your child, is silly too.

Boomerwang England Mon 04-Feb-13 21:15:09

I cannot believe after all this time that some people still don't GET IT.

Here we go:

This is normal and nobody will bat an eyelid at you:

'Look at the plane!'
'Can you see the oranges?'
'Point to the red ones'
'Did you know that people used to live in that castle?'
'oh dear we got all wet in the rain'

This is 'performance parenting' and you look stupid:

'We only want the organic ones because they do awful things to those chickens in barns. Yes that lady there is buying barn eggs, maybe she can't afford the nice organic ones like we can, or maybe she doesn't care'

'When we get home mummy will help you with your homework. What set are you in again? Top set? What are you learning now? Trigonometry? Oh my, you're so smart for an 8 year old aren't you!'

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 21:27:09

Really Boomerwang? Up thread someone pointed out a sheep in a field on a train and that was in the talking AT the child =- catagory and then went on into mad activities with parents and steam engines.

in the original op - she was talking about a mum at a coffee meeting talking mundane shite.

those who are so keen on talking about what they call performance parenting....

why dont you start your own threads about that specific subject?

nickelbabe Mon 04-Feb-13 21:30:11

exactly boom

normal is telling a child in normal conversational tones (in much thexsame way you would talk.to friends or yourself)

not normal and performing is loudly telling your child something then repeating it and then asking the child if they can say it without even looking to check the child is listening.

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 21:31:02

btw I LOVE how the word organic is mentioned over and over and over again by the performance parenting monitors!!!

Organic and humous!!! I imagine you walk past people whilst shopping, going about your business - all sorts of words and bits of conversations hit you in your subconscisous....then you ... hear the word " organic" and your triggered into your evesdropping and snearing. Then the prepetrator - feels you watching them, turns round or catches your eye - and you think

got em', she was looking round there for an audience - i KNEW it.

nickelbabe Mon 04-Feb-13 21:32:51

eliza the op said the woman literally verbalizes everything into a lesson.
mummy can't find the phone james phone PHONE we ring daddy on the phone.

that's exactly what we're talking about.

MrsPear Mon 04-Feb-13 21:34:47

Oh dear ... if you heard me you would grin At the request of speech threapy i talk a lot and make ds1 say whole sentences. When we are out, with lots of back ground noise, i also talk loudly (not shouting) but then he has ANSD - i.e hearing loss.

nickelbabe Mon 04-Feb-13 21:35:07

people don't notice.
iwas at the till in sainsbury's loudly complaining that the person in front obviously didn't care about animal welfare or chickens' lives because of the eggs they bought and that the co-op only sold free range qnd organic eggs.

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 21:36:55

mrs pear, you had better start wearing a plastic card round your neck explaining this as there are people watching, listening and judging you behind every aisle apparently,

nickelbabe Mon 04-Feb-13 21:37:18

mrspear. you're okay because we assyme that you are constantly checking to make sure your ds is paying attention. that's the main difference.
the loyd or performance parent doesn't care if the child notices, only the other adults.

shushpenfold Mon 04-Feb-13 21:38:01

Not sure if I did it when they were young, but I do have a habit of now talking to my computer....and the fridge.....and my car keys.....I may have problem.

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 21:39:41

" we assume" love it, are you secretly recording as well, feeding it back to base, one of you closing in on footage, narrow eyes chewing the end of a pencil......she's ok, she checked her son four times in three miuntes

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 21:40:11

I performance parent to my cats, I've realised, rather than my kids. I think that may be more of a problem than anything else on this entire thread, or indeed, on Mumsnet as a whole!

manicbmc Mon 04-Feb-13 21:40:21

It's a very clear distinction really. Because the performance parent will not particularly be making eye contact with the child. They will be looking around at other people waiting for applause.

I'm pretty certain someone with a child with hearing problems or SN, will be trying to engage eye contact as well as talking loudly and clearly.

manicbmc Mon 04-Feb-13 21:41:10

Worried, I also performance parent to my cat. Shall we start a support group? grin

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 21:45:13

Manic - I think that is an excellent idea! I have three cats, but one in particular is just so responsive when I use my performance voice that it's quite freaky. 'Yes, you ARE a clever boy, Ted, yes you are! Would you like some food? Say food! What a clever boy! Now roll over, yes, roll over for Mummy'. Quite alarming...

manicbmc Mon 04-Feb-13 21:47:03

Mine is like that. You get little meows as answers. grin

elizaregina Mon 04-Feb-13 21:48:16

well there is certainly apparently a huge auidience out there for it - they love listening into other peoples convos - and am sure will love hearing you talk to your cats....

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 21:50:07

My cat chirrups, rather than meows. Don't you Ted? Yes you do, yes you do, because you're a clever boy, yes you are! I'm actually like that woman with the little dog in the insurance ads (oh no, he never walks!)

manicbmc Mon 04-Feb-13 21:51:30

Hahaha grin

She'll put her head to one side and then (because she's got no front teeth) she does this 'smile'.

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 21:53:36

Pmsl at the mental image of cat with no front teeth smiling! Unless you're referring to yourself, Manic, in which case, get thee to a dentist!

manicbmc Mon 04-Feb-13 21:54:51

I have the front ones but they stole my wisdom!

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 21:57:02

Well, I hope you got something from the Tooth Fairy. And did you know the going rate is now £5 a tooth apparently!?! Mine get a pound and I hyperventilate at that amount. That's a whole other thread right there...

manicbmc Mon 04-Feb-13 21:58:43

Luckily my kids are well passed losing teeth.

I got wine when I lost mine.

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 21:59:41

I will try giving mine wine when they next lose some and let you all know how that works out...

manicbmc Mon 04-Feb-13 22:00:35

They'll sleep well wink

Boomerwang England Mon 04-Feb-13 22:21:59

Right that's it. You're doing it on purpose. Well done, you got your way.

I'm getting tired of just about every thread falling to bits because some people are deliberately twisting the words of others, or purposely refusing to understand the point. You must be doing it on purpose, because you can't possibly be that thick.

'You' refers to those that know they are doing it.

amothersplaceisinthewrong Mon 04-Feb-13 22:23:38

Another reason to avoid NCT groups. I hate all baby talk, and did not use it with mine - they got spoken to in normal voices....

WorriedMummy73 Mon 04-Feb-13 22:24:51

Boomer - I hope that wasn't me and my cats...

Boomerwang England Mon 04-Feb-13 22:35:23

No.

exoticfruits Mon 04-Feb-13 22:37:04

I think that the difference is that you should be talking to your child - which means a normal voice and looking them in the eye and waiting for a response. It means having pauses.
I can't see any point in treating them as a passive audience and just talking on and on without a pause or interaction.
The first gets them listening, the second means they can just let it wash over them. The baby or small DC can't care less whether eggs are free range or not- that is something you can explain at a later date when looking at hens.

exoticfruits Mon 04-Feb-13 22:39:22

I went to NCT groups- I can't remember anyone using 'baby talk' - it was a chance to chat to adults and the babies/ toddlers were happy to play or watch others.

Anna1976 Mon 04-Feb-13 23:50:31

LaQueen "Why are parents so terrified of their children just sitting and observing for a few minutes? They're not going to implode if they are not constantly being distracted/entertained/enaged with..."

exoticfruits "I think that the difference is that you should be talking to your child - which means a normal voice and looking them in the eye and waiting for a response. It means having pauses."

I agree very much. All my mother's constant stream of loud/performance/passive-aggressive parenting did was teach me to switch off completely, for years.

Aged 36 i still have great difficulty concentrating on auditory input, and tend to be completely passive in conversations, usually because i haven't been listening blush

Anna1976 Tue 05-Feb-13 00:02:20

BTW I quite like organic hoummous... more so than jaffa cakes anyway grin

However going round the supermarket with my sister, BIL, and (ex) SIL &BIL and the 3 kids has to have been one of my life's highlights.

"Tarquin [2 years 11 mo], what's the MANDARIN word for organic? Yes! now tell Horatio [11 weeks] so he knows too. Ooh, isn't he clever! goo gaa! yes that's right Horatio, YOU'RE SPEAKING MANDARIN TO MUMMY!"... cue my sister instantly chiming in over the top with "Lysandra [4 years]! YOU know the word for organic in FRENCH, GERMAN AND JAPANESE, DON"T YOU?" grin

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with teaching foreign languages to extremely young kids, since it's vastly more effective than teaching teenagers. I just find the performance parenting aspect hideously self-indulgent. It's self-indulgent no matter what values are being inflicted - a friend of exSIL/BIL/Tarquin/Horatio does it in reverse "oh, darling, WE don't know the mandarin words for ANYTHING because YOU'RE allowed to be a CHILD, aren't you? Mummy loves you whether or not you're a member of Mensa, doesn't she?" hmm

Pagwatch Tue 05-Feb-13 08:30:10

It is a bit sad tbh.
This thread has evolved into a jokey thread about performance parenting.
It has been said over and over again that no one ever judges mums gaily engaging with their child. Equally everyone recognises that some children have issues that need constant clear speech.

To constantly twist the thread into people sneering t anyone who talks to their child is just wilfully stupid and antagonistic.

I performance parented a bit with DS1. I was a bit of an arse but no harm done. It was like a big old manifestation of PFB and I am an adult.i can laugh at myself for my foolishness.
I had to endlessly talk loudly at ds2. He had all sorts of issues that meant I had to do it. Maybe some people thought I was a twat but in the scheme if things I don't care.

Have we lost the ability to laugh gently at ourselves and each other. We are all ridiculous t times. It's not evil to either do it or notice it.

LineRunner Tue 05-Feb-13 08:48:34

I'm so interested in what the posters say about allowing a child to learn to listen.

There are many baby gurus who would have it that babies (and foetuses) absorb everything. Hence some of the nuttier beliefs that a baby can be born 'knowing' the complete works of Mozart.

It looks like at some point, though, if the auditory stimulation is constant, some children at least simply turn off the processor for that, and look elsewhere?

Pagwatch Tue 05-Feb-13 08:53:21

Yes. It is interesting. The whole auditory processing thing is interesting.
I remember DS2 not being able to 'hear' me because there was a bus pulling into the car park.it was quite far away but it swamped him and he recoiled from that noise and went into a massive meltdown.
The fight to get him to tune language in and tune other stuff out is on going.

Pagwatch Tue 05-Feb-13 08:55:30

Sorry. Just agreeing. That reads back a bit like I am letting you find it interesting in a head patty way which is not how I meant it at all. blush

sandyballs Tue 05-Feb-13 09:01:44

I was in the library last week and couldn't help noticing one of these loud parents.

She was sitting on the carpet in the children's area with two girls of about 4 and 5 reading them a book very loudly about a character who wouldn't eat anything green. Loud effects and pronunciation, as though she was on the fecking stage. At the end she closed the book and said in a booming voice to her girls:

"How odd darlings that he won't eat anything green, because there are loads and loads of lots of lovely green things to eat aren't there".

The girls just sat there.
She went on:

"Yummy broccoli, cabbage, spinach, mung beans ......"

Then one of the girls shouted "snot" grin.

"No sweetie that's not nice, we don't eat that"

"SNOT, SNOT ....."

Cheered up my Tuesday grin.

LineRunner Tue 05-Feb-13 09:02:58

Oh you can pat my head, Pag. The cat slept on it all night snoring and what with the couple next door shagging and the wind howling, I need less noise and more patting.

Pagwatch Tue 05-Feb-13 09:04:37

grin

LaQueen Tue 05-Feb-13 09:39:47

Widow as I said, young children need to be exposed to normal conversation, and that also means being included in the conversation sometimes...and of course parents shoudl talk to their children...but, they need to talk normally, as much as possible. The Motherese and constant repeating and emphasising is a bit nonsensical.

LaQueen Tue 05-Feb-13 09:44:26

Hands up who thinks that eliza is getting very suspiciously defensive and hissy hmm

[raises hand]