To ask why do people 'loud parent'(468 Posts)
This woman from my NCT group does it all the time with her DS when we all meet for coffee and it's just ridiculous. She literally verbalises every thing they do with a question at the end and some sort of lesson. Eg mummy can't find her phone in her handbag can she James? Phone, James, PHONE. We ring daddy on the phone don't we? / Mummy is going to get you a rice cake, isn't she James? But we only have three left don't we, till we get to the shops. One, two, three. Shops. SHOPS.
I do engage with DD, naturally, but nowhere near on this level!
Sorry, I know this isn't a new topic, but it is so ridiculous. A couple of times I've echoed it with "what is mummy going to do tonight DD, drink gin, that's right, GIN. What does mummy like with her gin? Tonic, that's
right isn't it DD? But she might need to have it neat tonight, isn't that right?" however she is usually too absorbed in explaining to him why coffee is hot, HOT, and why it is sometimes in a mug MUG, sometimes in a cup CUP and why only mummies MUM-MIES drink coffee and not babies BABIES and why and why and why and why and why
I do it all the time. Hopefully not loudly. I just talk to my baby. He likes it. I don't care if you're listening or not. I'm not talking to you. I do it in the car, in the woods, in the shops, wherever. And I will carry on doing it, whether or not you think I'm trying to impress you.
YABU. I do it and my Jonquil is trilingual and can make a perfect souffle and he's only 17 months.
There are worse things to do. Like not talking to your child.
I think it just becomes a habit sometimes.
It only annoys me when it involves smuggery .. 'come on Timothy we must get home for our music and movement hour before canapés on the lawn'
I had to talk to DS a lot as he had language problems.
I do the talking thing all the time, and at home.Its just a natural thing you do when you have babies.
I do vocalise everything. I don't think I do it loudly and there are no canapes involved.
Some people are just a bit keen I think and take normal talking to your child to the extreme. I think poor James might grow up to think he has to say key words twice though if she carries on with 'cup CUP' etc.. He'll be saying 'me want a biscuit BISCUIT, now NOW' before she knows it.
Theres a woman who's like this with a child in DS's class. She sort of shrieks at her younger child as if she wants everyone else to here 'yes you will be starting school soon wont you darling. yes you are very good at colouring arent you darling'
She is also slagging her other half off on facebook constantly even though he appears to be good enough to be having another baby with
I suppose to increase the child's language skills and decrease mummy's boredom with talking to the wall/trees.
YABabitU but I can see how it would get a but tiresome if you never got a word in edge ways. Had to laugh at the 'What's mummy going to drink tonight, DD?' bit! Mind you, I think I might be one of those mum-mies! And DDs speech isn't bad for her age so I don't know if it's made a difference (not a stealth boast, BTW, but an actual boast!!)
loud parenting is just talking to your child surely It is a wee bit different from performance parenting which is v v annoying like now we remember the Mandarin word for thank you dont we darling
I was a loud talkative parent MY dds liked it and when they came to talking they could communicate quite well from a young age, dd1 started speaking ar 10 months. obvious genuis
and you know I work with some parents who never speak to their babies ever id rather have a loud parent than that anyday
there are no canapes involved.
ach catgirl you spoiled my vision of you I so had you down for a canapes girl
Inside the four walls of my house I practise loud parenting at its finest. Outside and infront of people, I just tone it down, but still do it.
People always mention how sensibly and clearly dd talks. She used to have full conversations with old people on the bus aged 2.5. DS is also starting to follow Dd's footsteps.
Take the piss all you like, but I think talking to babies like this really helps them develop good speech quickly.
Don't get me wrong, I love a good canape
I made some lovely ones at Christmas
But they have yet to come up in conversation with DS
Ha I found it difficult to talk to DS about mundane things so I used to talk to him about work, buildings (I'm an architect) - what I liked/didn't like & driving. I never expected him to pay attention it was just the interacting aspect, and I didn't feel so stupid talking about stuff.
Which was fine until one day we were walking past a house just after he started really talking properly and DS exclaimed loudly ' mummy that's a really ugly house' he was right but the lady in the garden gave me a really dirty look!
I'm much more careful about what I say within even vague earshot these days.
god when mine were babies we would talk about the birds tree bushes dogs ducks , what we were eating what we were doing next I would also moan about my day when they were tiny babies, you know maybe that is why they never shut up
I haven't seen that. I do mutter things around the house like 'mummy needs something to eat/drink', 'mummy's lost her keys' and then feel like slapping myself because I sound a fool.
When out and about with my daughter I talk to her about things that are going on, but I don't raise my voice so that others can hear. How odd.
I am naturally a very quiet/non chatty person. It may be a coincidence, but dcs 1 and 2 were both late talkers (dc3, who has had the least focused attention is right on track though - go figure) and I often wish I could be more like your friend. Of course I talk to my dc, and always have, but not intensively iyswim. So I think you're being a bit U.
loud parents are funny,the pushy ones.it's Lin-gwee-knee for tea.you know go on saskia
say Lin-gwee-knee like the artisan man we met in Italy.
the ongoing running commentary of middle class life
oh and another thing dd2s parents evening last week , miss jay has excellent communication skills.
"I do it all the time. Hopefully not loudly. I just talk to my baby. He likes it. I don't care if you're listening or not. I'm not talking to you. I do it in the car, in the woods, in the shops, wherever. And I will carry on doing it, whether or not you think I'm trying to impress you."
This makes me sad. I've just had my first baby and I find it really hard to talk to her, I've learnt by copying my mum and just chatting about what we're up to etc. I feel really self conscious if I do it in public (I do it really quietly sometimesif alone, louder if with someone but not LOUD). I'd hate someone to judge me for it, I feel it's helping her already as she makes a huge range of sounds when she babbles. So, YABU, it's great she's.talking to her baby.
I wouldn't want them to stop-they are highly amusing!
So that by the age of 5 they're not having to communicate with Makaton because their parents never spoke to them?
Or in my case, because DD is partially deaf.
Performance parenting on the other hand...
I have had a few moments when I've realised the whole supermarket queue has just heard:
"You're a piglet aren't you? You are my little piglet and your knees are made of bacon and I am going to eat your bacony knees and your cheesey toes because you are a delicious little piglet." etc
Its a sad thing in society that a lot of parents dont even realise they should talk to their children.Its very common,and the problem is getting worse.
I'm sometimes a loud parent... I don't realise I'm doing it. I get very animated and loud without realising it. <blush>
I found it tricky to talk to my daughter in public - just felt like I was talking to myself. Much better now but only 'relevant' stuff iykwim like 'what shall we have for lunch?' and never really in front of others.
My mil on the other hand be we shuts up and babbles nonsense continually at dd 'shall we cross the road. Roads are hard. But grass is softer. See the grass. It's green like a frog. What noise do frogs make. Ribbit ribbit. Sounds a bit like rabbit. Rabbits eat carrots. Oh look a bird. Birds have feathers that are soft like your coat yada yadda yadda .....'
Makes me want to gouge my eyes out and eliminates any chance of normal adult conversation.
Its a sad thing in society that a lot of parents dont even realise they should talk to their children.Its very common,and the problem is getting worse.
I agree with you, parents feel self concious and a bit silly for talking to their babies, babies need to hear you say 'stuff'
Its good to talk to your kids, everyone knows that but it is really annoying when its that over the top not really needed talk! especially when your trying to talk as grown ups
I think I'm guilty of loud explaining and talking to DD (aged 6). But hopefully it doesn't seem competitive and doesn't involve boasting. It's only because I want her to enjoy and understand and interact with the world around her. That doesn't seem so bad, does it?
People judge all the time threewheels - and half the time you won't even know they're at it.
Who cares. You're never going to see them again. Best just to get on and do it the way you want to do it, and not give two hoots about random strangers.
I judge performance parenters (I love a good judge, me), but loud parenters - I have a bit of a soft spot for.
I do it with my cats, I won't lie. I would find it annoying if I was trying to have a conversation with someone though and they kept talking at their baby all the time though
Its a sad thing in society that a lot of parents dont even realise they should talk to their children.Its very common,and the problem is getting worse.
We are not talking about parents talking to their DC-of course they should-however they are not deaf! You can talk in a normal manner and you do have to let the DC have time to respond! The DC of the loud parent never bothers to talk-they can't get in a word edgeways.
i try and do it if i can. Speech therapist recommended it. Although she didnt call it loud parenting, and she didnt mention any controversy to the method.
SALT where I work uses loads of words for saying a simple thing for the children who go to her, <shrug>
Exoticfruits - You should comment 4 times before you ask a child a question.
I walked past a lady today who was walking along with her 2/3yo dd and she said very loudly and clearly "shall we go in m and s and get something nice for tea or shall we go to the SUSHI RESTAURANT that you love?"
someone always gets offended and trots out salt reasons for lots verbal interaction
they are being bitty offended for no good reason,this is the Loud parental brayers
not the regular parental verbal discourse
Im not offended scottish Just chatting im not looking for a fight or anything loud parenting is good I do think folk get a bit het up about this whole parenting malarky
I think repeating everything like the op states is fine, and good practice.However cant say on the other as never heard anyone do it.The only mandarin Ive ever heard anyone mention is the orange fruit version.
You don't even need to ask a question, meadow 2, you need to have a proper conversation and listening is a very important part-even if it is only a babble. I expect people to chat continually to their baby/DC but why loudly? The loud ones that I hear never wait for a response-half the time they never look at the DC to see if they have one-they treat them like a TV audience!
of course parenting malarkey gets us all het up,why we wouldn't be here if it was skoosh
Half the time I think it is for the other adults benefit as in 'aren't I a good mummy' -and the DC lets it wash over them.
There is a difference between chatting to your DCs and chatting to your DCs very loudly so the entire room can marvel at your fabulous parenting.
I talk to my baby all the time . It makes me look completely bats, especially when it turns out she's asleep. I don't think I do it loudly. Oh well.
Exoticfruits - I have honestly never seen anyone do that irl,only ever heard of it on mn.
The 4 comments before a question thing is what you have to do with any child with speech problems.
But not so an entire supermarket/swimming pool/playground can hear meadow!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I had a horrible moment of self-realisation today that I am, in fact, a loud parent. I don't know why it surprised me as I once managed to halt the work of an entire office just having a conversation with my mum on the phone (who, to be fair, acts as though the telephone weren't there at all and she is just shouting at me from Devon. It is quit hard not to match volume for volume). However in my DS's case it's mutual and he starts talking to himself when he wakes in the morning with the running commentary continuing through all waking hours. We sound totally obnoxious oh god.
Hmm, well I chat to my children about inane things. Sometimes they're the only people I talk to all day and I have to talk loudly as my eldest has hearing problems.
I do however know someone who only talks to me via their child which is very odd.
You do have to engage the DC-whenever I hear the loud parent it is quite clear that the DC has switched off completely and has it as background noise.
hmmmm.... bet those 2 Jedward boys were parented like that !
lol at andub, it's exactly like Jedward, non-stop constant narrating of everyday life
I'm not annoyed by performance parenting, I find it hilarious. I was recently a witness to a remarkable scene. Father of three little ones, I would imagine ages 3, 4, and 6. They happened to be walking ahead of us on the way to a restaurant. He couldn't stop performing. "Yes, we all love to go to the Nepali restaurant, don't we? And you know where Nepal is, don't you?" Silence from the kids. "That's right, it's in the Himalayas. Yes, the Him-a-lay-as. And what is the tallest mountain there? You know what it's called, don't you?" Silence. "Yes, Mount Everest is what most people call it. But in Nepali it's called [insert Nepalese name]."
I could barely contain my glee when we entered the restaurant. There was a small television near the entrance, and all three children immediately surrounded it, slack-jawed. The father was beside himself. "Oh, yes, you don't watch television at home, do you? Yes, it must seem very exciting to you because you don't watch at home. Yes, I know, we don't have a television at home." He must have repeated himself about fourteen times. And then one child started to sing along to an advertising jingle. No T.V. at home, my hind foot!
I never did much of it but a fair few other parent friends did - irritating at times but never really bothered me. One mother was truly OTT but I simply saw her less.
YANBU for being irritated but YABU for letting it bother you.
Aw catgirl1976 that wouldn't have bothered me at all, that's so sweet
I could be guilty of this but then my DS, 22 months, is constantly chattering about everything around him. When we walk places, he likes to stop and look at cars/trees/people/birds/planes and will not stop referring to it until you acknowledge it's existence. It goes like this
DS - mama, teee
Me - yes, a tree
DS - bird, bird, bird! Bird!
Me - (finally) yes, a bird. In the sky
DS - sy, sy, sy!
Me - yes, the sky
Today, he was pointing at books in a shop going '2, 2, 2!' It was the number 8 so I said, oh, 8. And then started 'ay, ay, ay'. As you can gather, he doesn't stop talking!
"I wouldn't want them to stop-they are highly amusing!"
Well, exactly exotic it's hours of free entertainment
For all those over-keen Mums who think their children will have delayed speech development, unless they keep up a constant running commentary on everything and anything they do 24/7...don't stress it.
Language acquisition ain't like that.
Whenever I witness Loud Parenting...
'Look Saskia, an aeroplane...remember we flew on one when we flew to MAURITIUS last year, on our holidays...say MAURITIUS, Saskia...try again...MAURITIUS...yes, that's right...aren't you clever...and do you remember how an aeroplane stays up in the sky, do you...remember we talked about propulsion and AERODYNAMICS...remember...AERODYNAMICS...remember Saskia, and you asked some very clever questions about AERODYNAMICS, didn't you...ad infinitum
Invaribaly, Saskia is trying to insert her finger up her nose, or is actually oblivious, and is far more fascinated with the toggle on her coat.
There are more important things to get annoyed about than a Mum interacting with her baby aren't there? I LOVE to see parents chatting away to tiny babies who are clearly taking it all in and loving the interaction. Isn't this as it should be?
Worried actually that your OP will make parents who feel silly and self conscious (why??) doing this even more so and like they are being judged.
love loud parents the loud precocious braggy commentary to saskia et al
tbf to the OP she was trying to have a coffee with this woman, the constant narration to the baby does get in the way of the conversation somewhat. It's different to talking at/to the baby when it's just the two of you.
My local Waitrose is full of these mothers - that is why I do not shop on Saturday afternoons. The store just vibrates to the sound of all those parents talking in their 'special' voices. What's wrong with just talking normally?????
I have no problem with parents talking to their DC, it's the over verbalising and being forced to 'share the experience'.
I am a loud parent.
You will hear me in supermarkets saying Child, get here, child we cant play tig, child we don't need 4 blocks of cheese, right sit in the trolley
He does run straight to the fish counter though and shouts dead fish mum, dead fish, aww fish dead. Every single time we go
There is an enormous difference between talking to your child a lot and incessant LOUD PARENTING.
Take for instance a woman whose son goes to the school my son attends. We were waiting outside for school to end. Her daughter was running around a bit as kids do and she was raising her voice slightly to talk to her daughter, until.... she suddenly started talking RIDICULOUSLY loudly when she said "Oh, those noises you are making! PHONICS LESSONS HAVE A LOT TO ANSWER FOR, DON'T THEY, MY LITTLE DARLING!" The child was 3 at the time.
YANBU and I say that as a childminder who also talks constantly to her kids no matter the age of the child.
Love the bacony knees talk at the supermarket, but that is not loud parenting. It's funny, loving parenting which makes other's smile. Loud parenting is over enunciating everything, over doing absolutely everything and never leaving the poor bloody child alone to be a child.
There is one mother in every class and you start to dislike their poor DC's because you don't want them near you because of the loud parenting parent. Sad really, because one such little girl made a bid for escape in an assembly last week and as she passed me, she gave me a gorgeous little smile as she got away!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I think I 'quiet parent' i.e. I constantly tell them to shush, when they ask me, loudly on the bus, 'why is that lady fat? Has she eaten too many sweets? Is that lady very old? Is that lady pregnant? I know how the baby got in there. Is it going to come out of her bottom? That lady has a beard' and so on and so on.
Perhaps I should start talking non-stop, then they wouldn't have a chance to say these things.
One of my DC had speech delay and I was told to talk to him/give him running commentary on life. All that "Oh look a bus, it's a big red bus, we go on the bus don't we?". After a year or so of that it took a while to break the habit!
OTOH (hopefully not linked) the DC can be bad listeners so at times I have had to be excessively LOUD and POSITIVE about the smallest things like WALKING REALLY NICELY NOT HITTING YOUR BROTHER. Or is that just plain shouting?
My DC also ask questions constantly so I am constantly stuck with explaining to them how engines work or why shops have revolving doors or why you can't walk to the planet Mars, so I probably sound like a pushy parent too. I doubt anyone you perceive as loud does it just to show off or annoy, honest. Some people are just more talkative that others in all kinds of situations.
Now my girls are at school, I talk to the dog:
'Look there's a horse in that field. Did you see a squirrel? Yes I saw it's bushy tail, look at it jump. Would you like a biscuit, is that a hungry face?....'
The last time i went on a train with my mum she turned to me and said 'Look, horses in that field, do you think we'll see some sheep, I like sheep, your dog
complete softy would like some sheep, would n't she, oh look! over there....'
i am nearly 40, must try harder not to end up like my mum.
I chat to DS constantly. Not particularly loudly. His speech is pretty advanced (23 months, been talking in full sentences for ages) and between us it's rare for my DH to get a word in edgeways...
One of my NCT friends literally cannot talk to her DS in public. She always asks me what I talk to DS about. I don't know how to answer, it's just second nature to me to talk to him. Her DS has maybe 10 recognisable words.
Now I have no idea if it's genetics, parenting, random chance or whatever, but I certainly won't be trying to stop myself talking to him any time soon.
The vast majority of children have perfectly adequate hearing...you can actually speak to them in a moderate tone of voice, using a normal level of volume.
At least they're talking to their baby! Apparently our area has a real problem with peoplesate talking to their children until they're 2+ which is leading to speech delays etc. DS is inflicted with a running commentary of our life, I am the person that wanders round the supermarket asking shall we buy bananas or apples. But I'm quiet. And if I didn't I might fall asleep mid step from exhaustion. Sorry if it annoys any of you that I pass!
loud parenting isn't for child,it's for onlookers a isn't we so great/quirky/clever commentary
The OP doesn't mention volume at all, just says:
"She literally verbalises every thing they do with a question at the end and some sort of lesson"
Which I would argue is pretty common and a natural instinct for lots of parents
I agree performance parenting is highly amusing and totally different
The thread title includes the word 'loud', which indicates the volume. Plus the use of capital letters in the OP's examples would indicate shouting or loud talking at least.
Several times I pointed out tractors and trains when I was in the car to my ds...trouble is my work colleague was in the car and not ds.
And the number of times I talked inanely to my shopping trolley forgetting ds was at home and not sitting in it.
Loud parenting is quite sane on my book compared to what I did.
He does run straight to the fish counter though and shouts dead fish mum, dead fish, aww fish dead.
^ Cutest thing I've heard all week!
Purity I am a contender too. My children speak English and Japanese. When we come back to the uk . I usually tell them off in Japanese and vice versa in Japan. I also used to only really have my kids to talk to in english during the day., So My supermarket conversation is a bit like this:
Baby: gurr bu gurgle
Me? Really? I never knew!P
B: gurgle gagaga. (Eats sock)
Me: what the combobulation drive broke?
B: da dada co co an ne ne
Me: And you were suck on alpha centauri , where you discovered the meaning of the universe .All you need is,,, a yogurt to finish the project ?
B: banana tai tai tai
Me : banana youguruto ga hoshii? Gomen ne nai.... Ichichigo ha? ( starts chatting in Japanese)
I am a mn nightmare.
My son's favourite word is why, and I vowed that I'd answer as many whys as I could without losing my sanity, and that's what I do. Hopefully not too loudly. I didn't know it was something that annoyed people
The other day:
"Mummy, cloud. Up there."
"Yes, it's a cloud"
"Yep, in the sky"
"Because they're very light and they float"
etc etc etc, until my throat gets hoarse. Because nothing is worse than a child that can't converse and has no interest in doing so.
I think it is instinctive, and I do it in private and public. I don't speak louder than I would to an adult. I think I am just a person who talks a lot so it feels normal to me.
I do this. DS likes talking about things, and only being two, the things he can talk about are quite limited (Look bus! White Lorry, red car yes we'll go to the shops etc) so sometimes I go a bit off-piste for my own amusement.
And when he was a baby, I'd talk to myself for my own sanity, and because otherwise I could go all day without uttering a word, so when someone at the supermarket (for instance) asked me something, I'd open my mouth and only a croak would come out.
I'm sorry if it annoys you, but I'm sure you have habits that would annoy me, and by now the constant wittering is pretty much unconsciously done. I'm sure once he's a bit older he'll start rolling his eyes and telling me to shut up and the problem will cure itself.
I talk loudly to 21mo DS all the time. I just have a loud voice. I also repeat back what he says to me fairly often. I'm not making it up, he did just say "humous" although it may not have sounded like that to people listening.
I do sometimes get a bit horrified when I play back what I've just said. My mouth just babbles without thinking and I realise I've announced to DS (and therefore the whole of Tesco) that we need to pick up some olives and camembert from the deli before we go to the alcohol aisle and get some Pimms.
I think that the wrong word was used - we are talking about 'performance' parenting, not those who just happen to have a loud voice, and of course you should talk to your DC!
Performance parenting is hilarious- long may they continue to give passers by a good laugh! ( you just feel very sorry for the DC ).
I occasionally do it deliberately as in 'Darling, I love you more than anything in the world, and I'm finding that noise spectacularly annoying, so I'm pretty sure that these people who don't know you from Adam don't want to hear it either.' I normally talk to him at normal volume, but even then occasionally get caught out, once by a shelf stacker who snuck up behind me whilst I was saying 'Now we need to find the mung beans, and when you're older you'll understand that people who buy mung beans are called 'hippies'.'
I talk to DD constantly - and she talks back. As she only has about six words and a whole load of noises at the moment I have no choice but to imagine what she might be trying to say and respond to it. Otherwise we wouldn't have much to talk about - as it is I find we have so much in common .
I don't do it for the benefit of anyone but my DD and myself, and tbh if other people want to judge me for it then that's up to them. I love chatting with her, and do it just as much in the house when there is only me and her in as I do when we are out.
I also talk to the dogs.
So when I'm heard in the supermarket asking her if she wants lychees or plums it's because I happen to be picking fruit and need something
anything! to say. It's not because I'm trying to impress anyone, because I don't give a monkeys what anyone else thinks of me.
FWIW - we got the lychees and the plums.
16 month old DD chose both and then cuddled the punnet of lychees for the rest of the trip. I may have sounded pretentious but I was actually asking which she wanted. She went down the "two hands - two options" route and grabbed both hehehe.
I used to talk to ds a lot as a baby, as a single parent I had no one else to talk to!
3 DC's with language difficulties, two of them with hearing issues too, and you are, by definition, a loud parent.
I don't do it for the benefit of anyone else but my DC's, and couldn't really give a crap if it makes other people think I'm pretentious or whatever.
When dc were v young I used to talk non stop explaining everything I was doing to help their language skills. They have both ended up having quite advanced language skills for their age so my effort either paid off or it was pure luck twice!
However I never did it when out with others or in front of others - they had enough language development lessons at home
It does rather sound like your NCT friend is trying to prove a point of some sort
I do think that you are not a proper parent until you have inanely said "here's the pears - we'll buy some - they look very yummy" before realising that said child is at home with daddy.
At work I have to work quite hard to not refer to myself as "mummy".
I talk loudly to anyone because I'm hard of hearing
Like others if you heard me sometimes out and about with ds, you would eye roll and think ,'oh god...'. Ds has no speech at all (2.7) and a delayed level of understanding, so his SALT recommends talking simply, clearly and with quite exaggerated tones. Honestly if you saw the way she looks at a book with ds, you would think she was way OTT, but it is the only way to engage ds with looking at a book.
* Because nothing is worse than a child that can't converse and has no interest in doing so.* blimey, i hope that was a joke!
I do a running commentary in public with my teenage children.
what's the next thing on the list
how much is that? how much do you have? how much will you have left? Well done, fab
let's put this over here.
can you see the
say thank you
don't forget to
It is in a clear, wouldn't say loud but clear strong voice.
They have autism and it's about teaching them vital life skills.
Now they are older, I imagine it is clear that something is 'wrong' (wrong being outside perception ) but when they were younger I am sure I looked like the worst kind of performance parent, with questions and instructions and praise.
couldn't care less.
oh yes, and they were non verbal for quite some years! so it was very one sided, I would just talk on and on and on, asking questions and answering them too.
Anything to get them to absorb language and to understand the need for communication.
So yes, there would have been - point to the pears, (no pointing) where are the pears (no response) here are the pears, well done.
op is talking about a baby, this lady seems to be a little in over drive about it - cant switch off - baby will survive in a coffee morning without it but talking to baby should be encouraged not make people feel embarrased about it.
I was on eurostar a few years ago with DD1 and a lady sidled up to me after a while and asked dd age etc - and was she talking, I said yes but only a little.
She said to me - talk talk talk talk talk and the all the things it does -because her child had some sort of delay, I know she was projecting...but she was right.
NOT talking causes more problems than talking.
Hecate as long as you werent talking about middle class things like horatias pony lessons - you would be fine.
MN's dont like over hearing " middle class chat" alotugh it might simply be what thier life is - some find it offensive.
you know reading this thread the OP friend was performing rather than being loud but anyway I think talking to your babies toddlers children is vital and i didnt give a flying fig if anybody tutted at me when mine were younger, because when they get to teens they ignore and grunt at you
I'm guilty of this, however you wouldn't understand what I was doing, as I do it in German - anything I can do to increase their exposure to their second language. I also sometimes, especially when they were really small, didn't realise I was doing it - which led me to 'loud-parent' an empty shopping trolley (for the baby was at home with her dad)
I used to take the young un to a soft play centre every sat AM. I. Was often one of the only blokes in there. There was a lot of .... affected behaviour which came as a bit of a shock tbh. Not sure why women do it and don't buy a lot of the nonsense on here that it is for the child's benefit. There is little or no solid evidence that constant talking to your child - especially in a loud and show-offy voice - makes one iota of difference in terms of their language development. OP - you are correct in your observation.
My first conversation with my second was the morning after he was born, when I was getting him dressed and explaining to him what socks were for.
Woman in the bed opposite, burst into tears and wailed ooooohhh, you're showing him what socks are (or something along those lines )
Truly hadn't been for her benefit. I don't think I'd even noticed her. I was just wrapped up in my baby.
Doing it in German - oh give me strength!!!
I used to talk to
myself the cat before the DCs were born. I'm another loon who talks to empty shopping trollies. Not loud parenting, just plain old madness
<shrugs> I would rather hear a loud parent burbling on about Lin-gwee-knee <snort> than loud he said/she said, boasting about wealth or ability.
Parent engages with child - not so bad. I used to take the DDs to a
poncey dance and movement thing and one mum was very loud but can't say it really bothered me.
In the greater scheme of things etc...
Again, I was advised by speech therapists to talk about EVERYTHING we do, clearly and over exaggerated, in order to increase my DC's exposure to language.
And I also have 3 with ASD's, and again, I need to explain clearly, continuously, what we are doing, what will be coming next.
And 2 of those 3 DC's ALSO have hearing problems, and Auditory Processing Disorder, and, yet again, I have been advised to talk clearly, at a volume they can hear, and enunciating carefully, in order to help them hear. And the 3rd one of those DC's is waiting to get a dx of APD.
There ARE very good reasons why SOME 'Loud' parents are doing this.
OK, the lady in the OP is going overboard, and is probably rather annoying, as it DOES seem like she is doing too much, BUT surely it is better that she is talking to her DS than she ignored him and never spoke to him?
Bobby - oh, does raising my children bilingual, so that they don't only learn their dad's but also my mother tongue make me extra wanky?
sometimes I have to plead and beg some of the parents I work with to look and see their children as little people never mind loud parent them
as somebody else said in the grand scheme of things it is nothing to blether nonsense loudly to a child
"There is little or no solid evidence that constant talking to your child - especially in a loud and show-offy voice - makes one iota of difference in terms of their language development."
oh, does raising my children bilingual, so that they don't only learn their dad's but also my mother tongue make me extra wanky?
<snort> sorry that made me laugh,
There is little or no solid evidence that constant talking to your child - especially in a loud and show-offy voice - makes one iota of difference in terms of their language development. OP - you are correct in your observation.
urm yeah there is
McMahon - you are EVEN DOING IT HERE
"Doing it in German - oh give me strength!!! "
Yes give me strenghth, DH is a fluent German speaker and I would LOVE him to have spoken to our child in German but he doesnt. Such a waste!
Mrsjay - no there isn't. Non scientific. There is just an assumption.
Bobby could you show us this please where you have your info from.
Do you have any children with delays or autism etc?
Bobby, if a child has a speech delay/disorder, then speaking in simple clear sentences, and sometimes using exaggerated tones is what a speech and language therapist will advise. At least that is what ds's SALT advises, and that is the way she and all the key workers in ds's sn nursery talk to the children there, along with using Makaton.
I love the idea that talking to your child in the language that one or both of the parents uses is wanky!
Bobby - do you have a source to back up your claim? How much have you read about first language acquisition?
I am a proud and Loud parent - in terms of talking a lot to DS from when he was a baby rather than volume. Don't care. I also had the rule of never dumbing down language for him (acky, ta) so I now have a 4YO who peppers his language with four syllable words. (preens)
As for MC smugness, I live in an area that has a large Japanese population. We eat sushi. I wasn't aware that it was considered precious or pretentious to do so. We shop at Waitrose. Linguini is just a type of pasta eaten by most people in this country. I personally can't abide ever so 'umble reverse snobbery about things that are perfectly normal.
One thing is talking to babies, another is to turn them into paedagogic esperiments.
It's linguine, btw.
Of course it is, it's the TABLET, isn't it.
what tablet have you taken Franca?
Bobby we are waiting for this amazing research.
I've been a single parent for the last 8 years - if I didn't talk to dd I'd go spare!
As for MC smugness
im not MC i lived in a Council house for years I did it I was loud and proud well maybe not loud but proud to talk to my dds ,
I am awaiting your research to prove that talking to baby's toddlers etc in a loud voice helps improve their language skills. There isn't any, there is even a book called bodyshock or something similar which debunks the whole theory or constant talking. As for person above boasting that their 4 year old talks uses four syllable words, well, all I can say is, and?? Seriously, get a grip.
I do Loud Parenting because I am (a) loud, (b) a parent and (c) before having a child I talked to myself all the time. At least now I look a little less weird.
I actually call linguine 'piscetti' in case anyone overhears me and thinks I'm talking to my child in too 'loud' a manner.
It's linguine btw. Perfect!!
something to enable me to run a commentary of my children's life for the whole day, of course.
I like that the words linguine and language have the same source. It gives a lovely symmetry to the thread.
I wasnt sure if the " tablet" Francas taken meant she was confused between lanuague and linguni.
may be linguine where you are?where i am i hear the loud types say lin-gwee-knee
I am Italian, it's linguine.
That totally settles it.
Bobby has read a BOOK somewhere ...called something ... By someone...
look we've acknowledged the medical and SALT reasons,thats not what getting laughed at
someone always gets touchy and earnestly explains how they need to loudly and clearly talk
this is the mc cringey commentary loud precocious mummies
this is the mc cringey commentary loud precocious mummies
for the last time I AM NOT MIDDLE CLASS AND I DID IT (sorry was that a bit to loud ) ffs this really annoys me if a parent does something specific to help their baby/child it is seen as Mc smuggery
I find "oh look, Horatio, humous! Do you know which country humous comes from? What's that, darling? It goes well with olives and pitta bread, yes it does, you clever boy!" to a 4 month old hilarious.
But other 'loud' parenting, I barely notice because it is important to communicate with your children.
Bobby I wonder if you know anything about language acquisition because if you did, I'm sure you wouldn't be posting those
I am Italian, it's linguine.
Im scottish it is a packet of pasta
mn isnt all about you or your pure dead working classness.i live mc central i hear loud mc mummies daily
I just think it's funny. There's a woman at school who is always loud parenting about something or other, spelling out all the street signs while he stands looking in opposite direction at someone's Thomas the Tank backpack, picking his nose.
Best one was when she was wittering on at him about dewpoint. What can you see on the grass, Alexander? What is it? It's DEW, isn't it? DEW. That means it reached DEWPOINT this morning, didn't it? DEW POINT. That means it must have reached X temperature this morning, doesn't it, Alexander?
Poor little bugger isn't even two! and I've never witnessed him speak. Probably can't get a word in fucking edgewise.
or your pure dead working classness.i
oh you are a right nippy sweetie arn't you i have never said pure dead in my life, I dont care where people live I really don't I just get annoyed when class is mentioned at every turn
it was the SHOUTING and mememe,its not all mc I is working class doncha know
yes but the whole thread isnt all about you or whether or not all loud types are mc
but they cant be as you're determined we know you're working class
I think if you spend all day at home with a baby who can't speak it becomes habit to be able to conduct a one sided conversation. What's the alternative sitting at home silently very stimulating for baby and lots of fun for mum! Although me and partner can't help pretending to be DS telling us how silly we are.
I have to say I'm probably doubly irritating because I can't help but talk to other peoples babies too and they always smile and laugh it makes me happy to make babies/ children happy.
scottish - this isnt what this thread is about - altough what your talking about is something that has been discussed on many threads before.
This is about an over keen mum simply talking to her baby about mundane things.
Nothing to do with class. It is simply a case of whether you have a little modesty and humility and don't view bringing your child up as some kind of competition or whether you are a loud, irritating, show-off scrambling like some pathetic desperado to try and ensure young Harry gets to the top off the class.
It's a packet of pasta for me too Mrsjay
Mrs Jay I hear you and was trying to agree with you in my clumsy way. eating hummus (please don't ask me to spell that correctly) or sushi is not being middle class / pretentious for many people in this country. It's just food, so I am always surprised that on MN people consider them to represent a certain brand of MC ness. Hummus hasn't been considered exotic since the 90s surely?
do keep up eliza,see the thread is fast movig and youre not the moderator to clarify what threads are about
you dont know the mum was over keen as opposed to loud commentary.
most of us are actually describing the loud,precocious mc mummies
when i say " over keen" i mean only that she contiuned to do it at the coffee morning.
no scottish - they are not, but its a big bug bear of yours - your over hearing MC mummies and you have spoken about it at great length before.
Why dont you start to wear ear phones when you are out and about to drown these horrid MC mummies out.
I agree with Tondelayo about the food.
I agree with Bobby about competitive parenting.
All that reverse snobbery is a bit tiresome.
"Hummus hasn't been considered exotic since the 90s surely? "
Unfortunalty I think some people on here think anything more than a 60's chicken in a basket is posh.
Relentlessly talking at your very young child (which, let's face it, is what you're doing, because they don't have the ability to comprehend, process and respond yet) really isn't going to speed up their language acquisition.
Children just need to be exposed to the normal conversation between adults, other older children talking, stuff playing on the radio/TV, etc. That's all.
Unless of course they have a speech delay like my DD in which case the best thing to do is to talk directly at her, repeating words loudly and showing her objects and naming them...
My mother used to do it, we called it her "Jackanory" voice, it made us cringe when we were older but, of course, I do it myself all the time.
And where does this need/desire to speed up a small child language acquisition come from?
Mummy obviously, if there are specific issues, fair enough.
I have no idea franca and it's just pointless, it's going to mean diddly-squat in the long term.
So long as the very young child is exposed to plenty of conversation between adults, other older children etc (and obviously, a bit of random Mother-ese) then they will be just as articulate, as the poor wee child whose had a parent relentlessly declaring in its face 'This is a pear, Saskia...remember we like pears don't we...say PEAR, Saskia, say PEAR...no try again, P.E.A.R...' since they were 4 months old
* bows as the inventor of the term "Loud parenting" *
Children just need to be exposed to the normal conversation between adults, other older children talking, stuff playing on the radio/TV, etc. That's all.
Unless they have speech and language difficulties.
sorry crossposted with everyone else!
Laqueen you are spot on.
Re speech delay btw, my young un didn't say a word until he was 3. I just went with it, never did anything any different and certainly didn't do the talking at him thing all the time. He is now four, speaks as well as his peers.
The whole talking at them thing - seriously, there is no conclusive evidence either way that this works. I actually think it can hinder them as I certainly wouldn't like some baffoon yapping away at me like a clown all the time - it might make me tongue-tied.
SALTs recommend certain techniques. I believe them, not people on MN who claim to know better.
Actually Bobbybird I think ou have misunderstood LaQueens point.
I believe she is rightly saying that usually dc will just naturally pick up speech if people around them are behaving normally and interacting in a articulate, healthy way. I wholeheartedly agree with her.
But using her point to say she is dismissing any link between clear speech directed at children with speech delay as a valid form of therapy is nonsense.
Anyone who has completed SALT training is advised to do it.
It's actually ironic that whilst lecturing others about language you don't seem to have understood what she wrote.
I have a VERY irritating acquaintance who does the loud teachy talking all the time at her 1 year old. Not just chatting to her, which I really don't think you can find fault with, but "yes darling it's a H! H for house" (street signs - kid is 1!!) etc is just ridiculous. She also genuinely believes her DD saying "aeroplane" babystyle ("abbiyan") is actually DD saying it in French (avion) because they went there in the summer. No joke.
Annoyingly, however, said one year old is extremely articulate and well ahead of her peers with language development.
They'll level out by school age, unless there are specific language issues - but in the mean time I suspect my acquaintance will run out of friends with the patience to spend time with her.
i have no bug bear, i do post about whatever.in my habitat everyone is a loud mc mummy
they travel in packs in a fug of jo malone and ugg boots.easy to discuss them
lets not make out anyone else is hear to advance observational social science or speech therapy.everyone is chewin the fat. dont pretend it any other way
they travel in packs in a fug of jo malone and ugg boots
You're coming across as if you have a massive chip on your shoulder.
not at all,its a straight factual observation of where i live
its not a fug of impulse and jj sports trainers.that would be somewhere else
so you see you assumeim saying something else to suit or support your pov
so you see you assumeim saying something else to suit or support your pov
My POV was that 'loud parenting' is not class specific. I just don't know why people make everything into a class war on here.
If that's your experience then fine, but why extrapolate it across all areas? You sound snipey.
its not talking. its addressing or a commentary designed for the benefit of passers by, not the kid
we say this every time
listen! its not normal talking to your kid, which of course is lovely
beacuse its mn,we do class big time,get with the programme
mn can get class out of every damn thing.esp posting style and comments bout txt speak
mn is online chewin fat,the social observation of someone else.thats the whole point
again you can assume or say snipey to support your pov. i of course dont agree
sarky,hell yes. its not hard when observing a tribe i find funny
dp you only post impartia;,neutral,nonjudgemental class free opinion.no?no one does
What's your obsession with my 'point of view'? Everything online is a point of view.
Erm no pagwatch. I was agreeing with lq about the need to just be normal around children. There is nothing normal about saying everything in loud voice to them and constantly repeating things. Methinks it is you who has misunderstood my point.
Yes. i misunderstand.
LaQueen was talking about children with no language or speech delay.
You have extrapolated from that that she means children with speech delay don't need clear loud continuing speech.
She posted that if there is a speech delay then it is 'fair enough'.
I feel like I am talking about you....
Bobby, great that your ds has developed speech in his own time without any intervention. My ds (2.7) has a genetic condition, part of which is speech disorder, many children with the condition are completely non verbal. Ds has had SALT since he was 10 months old, his expressive language is at the level of a 6-8 month old, although he has just started to sign, so his communication is improving, although his speech isn't. Our SALT has advised simple clear language, looking at ds, trying to catch his attention with exaggerated tones, and she points out that this is the way people often talk to very young babies,and helps with speech development.
I agree with her re the no speech delay thing.
I would go further though and add that even with speech delay thing, the communicating with them thing should be no different to a 'normal' child. I did read up extensively on this - having, as i did, child with major speech delay - and found little evidence either way.
I think we should have
Loud parenting = endlessly talking at children for a variety of reasons including being a bit bored, batty or having salt thingies
Performance parenting = shouting self aggrandising things at your child for the sake of passers by.
There is also
Passive aggressive parenting = saying rude things about people but to your baby in order to avoid direct confrontation "yes sweetie that woman does have a face like a badgers arse and was very rude to push in front of us, wasn't she"
I should add I am talking only about speech delay, no other complications, conditions etc.
I would rather go with the SALT teams that have taken him from non verbal to able to articulate his needs rather than your reading up and not seeing much difference either way. If that's ok.
I went with the passive aggressive parenting style.
I have a real urge to go to Waitrose now, just to see if I can find any performance parenting.
However, that would mean I'd have to get off my bum, get dressed and go OUTSIDE.
Never seen anyone admit PA parenting before!
I have seen some great ones. The ones done in a sing song voice are particularly brilliant and awful, all at the sme time.
I recommend it. My dd is fluent in sarcasm.
My POV was that 'loud parenting' is not class specific. I just don't know why people make everything into a class war on here.
I dont either if you think somebody is smug in their parenting say so dont bring frigging class into it,
speech delay is a developmental thing rather than parents not talking loudly or other wise to their babies, on the other hand parents who do not talk to their babies sometimes their babies will be speech and devolpmentaly delayed. child devolpment is a minefield imo and some do go OTT with it,
its mn of course everything a class war on here! have you read baby names posts
or ear piercings for children, and no one admits to ever going mcDonalds.ever
loid parebting,saskia is so clever she can sing wind bobbin up in french is a mc mummy thing
anyone else reading 'mc smuggery' etc as 'McSmuggery' i.e. like something you'd get in McDonalds?? in which case, can you still call it middle class??
OH LIKE A MC SMUGGERY MEAL [GRIN]
If you order a 1/4 pounder in a French accent in the Hampstead Branch you get a free McSmuggery.
would that be an organic McSmuggery pag ??
We go to McDonalds - do I get a prize for being the first to admit it? Also, my youngest likes a Fruit Shoot, we shop at Tesco and Sainsburys (depends where I fancy on the day) and I like Jarlsberg cheese and taramasalata. Three kids are bright as buttons, great manners, love a Happy Meal. Where, in the great scheme of 'class' things does that place us?!
McSmuggery it would be artisan fries,organic quinoa burger,with handmixed free trade jus to coat the gem lettuce
Bobby, for lots of young children with delays, you may not know they had a 'condition' for years and years. Ds has had many tests and is still having them now, his diagnosis is not fully confirmed.If a child has delayed speech, and sees a SALT they would recommend the same thing that ds's SALT advised for him.
when i refer to myself as mummy, i sound like my bloody mum.
even to the extent that i once referred to myself (the other day) as Mum'sActualFirstName.
i do the loud parenting, i'm sure.
but! DD can say "Ta" when you give her something, and i did not teach her that - she must have got it from watching me serve customers.
i refer to myself as mummy to the kids, as in come to mummy, hold mummy hand
i wouldn't say my actual name
nor do i do the thing were they call me my real name. instead of mummy
I think my 18 year old dd would look at me like this if I started referring to myself as 'mummy' at this late stage.
I don't keep up a running commentary but when dd is out and about facing forwards in the buggy I have realised I'm yelling a bit to make myself heard!
Sometimes I keep talking in the hope that she will see something of interest if I think she might be about to start kicking off a bit because she wants to get out of the buggy.
I think a lot of people mumble and sometimes it makes it easier for children to understand if you enunciate clearly.
I slightly agree about slight showing off although actually think its great that someone loves their kids and wants them to learn and God forbid Bobby, do well at school!
Do people say "look at me" or "look at mummy" to their children? I thought people would only say the latter when they are teaching their children who people are, when the child is older (say 5 or 6) saying "look at mummy" might sound strange.
I've gone over to "me" with DD1 (7.5) (not sure when that happened) but still more often than not "mummy" with DD2 (nearly 4).
I always talked to them when we were out even as tiny babies. People used to give me some funny looks for it too. Not in the manner set out in the OP (I hope) but more when I was on my own with them. When they were tiny I'd be saying things like "Oh, have you woken up then?" and generally telling them what I was doing "Let's change your nappy then, shall we?" Then as they got a bit bigger and were clearly understanding more I'd just make progress towards general conversation more how you would do with a grown up "It's very sunny isn't it?" As for the "loudly teaching" them stuff, well two and three year olds in particular do love the word "Why?" While parents probably do have volume control issues as you get used to a certain amount of noise, you can't avoid explaining quite a lot of stuff to them.
one of the best things about always having my DDs on my front in a sling when they were small was that I could talk to them really quietly as they were so close to me. I talked to them constantly because they were right there. on the occasions they were in a buggy I felt really self conscious as I had to talk louder for them to hear.
Lol at passive aggressive parenting. I experienced this last year at a park. "Oh WELL DONE little Timmy. Very GOOD MANNERS" etc, when my autistic son was being not the best at waiting patiently. The classic thing was little Timmy was also playing with my other beautifully mannered child ( NT, which helps somewhat) but PA Mum assumed he belonged to someone else and nearly swallowed the plums in her chops when we all left together. To be fair, exaggerated speech probably is bet for speech development but it makes the mums seem so smug.
I had mine in a sling sometimes but not for that long at a time and only for a few months. I felt it was going to do my back in if I did it for long. My body didn't regain muscular strength for at least a year after giving birth and probably up to two years, realistically.
I live in a mixed area and I have NEVER heard or noticed performance parenting, nor at any of the masses of toddler groups or play parks or anywhere people interact.
Its odd that some people not only hear it - but seemingly all the time.
I wonder if some think they are on a kind of Trueman show -
" OK - Shes coming, cue the 4x4's, can we have the uggs and the anogora knits out first please and kids called Tarquin and Clementine....and .....ROLL"
"OK - she's about to enter Tesco - cue woman clad in desginer wear looking lost with kid doing prioutetts down the ailse - asking in a loud voice for HUMOUS....., AND ACTION".
Just to be clear, my passive aggressive parenting comment was with my tongue very much in my cheek.
I don't remember much of what I used to say to my twins before they were 1 as I was in a constant fug of 3 hours sleep a night.
Although my dd is very much fluent in sarcasm. I have no idea where she gets it from.
not odd in least.as you can see plenty attest they see,hear loud parents in their area
it add a certain frisson to the area,the pricy but fairtrade goods and loud parenting
maybe you need to mix with the lin-gwee-knee crew in their habitat
i think my DD will also be fluent in sarcasm
Come at mine!
I can make you all some niiiiiiice linguine with prawns and entertain your 9 months old babies with a detailed lecture on pasta shapes!
what, like noodles doodles?
so long as its french alphabetti pasta with accents as saskia is learning french
Dd learned French because I would sit her and her brother in front of Tots TV.
oh no we dont do tv,the live-in slave speaks french and makes artisan bread
tv?whats that we do enriching activities like yoga,yodelling,kumon maths
and exaggerated pronunciation of words
Is Saskia still lerning french, Scottish?
Even my non-verbal ds managed to master yodelling.
It is a very under-estimated skill.
saskia is tackling french slowly, non-fluent but maybe fluent by P1,otherwise how will she say croissant in an exaggerated manner
Saying croissant should be natural by now, Scottish, I am worried that you aren't taking Saskia to Costa cafe often enough.
doesnt say it say it like a parisian,low guttural tones evocative of gauloises and black coffee
But surely one should only expose one's precious dahhhhrlings to small independent tea shops?
independent only, yes selling free trade over priced artisan wares
places that reek of jo malone,were the prams are reassuringly big and expensive
and even thoiugh one can say croissant,no one eats em.transfatty poison to weans
But Manic, our independent tea room is too small and we can't fit our Bugaboos!!
And you must try these wonderful homemade biscuits. They are made from organic, artisan, free trade sawdust and beetles.
gosh yes my fleet of bugaboo in all colours palette and reassuringly expensive
well simply block the door,and or pavement with bugaboo.what everyone else does
'Loud parenting' to me is about what you're saying. If it's 'let's phone Daddy and tell him we need more milk' it's just the general narration thing that's good for child development.
Noisy parenting is 'No, put that one down darling, we have the organic hummus don't we!' We wouldn't want all those nasty chemicals in our food.' Or 'Look at the lovely picture. It's quite like the nice Manet we saw at the gallery isn't it darling?'
I do to my dd 5 who as ASD e. g well dine good waiting, or do you want orange juice or water (loudly)
Exactly Narked-I can't see why people can't tell the difference. The child certainly can-they get the 'glazed over look' with the performance parenting. It also stops when the parent comes to the realisation that it isn't achieving anything.
loud parenting is the unnecessary arent we sooo v clever commentary.
Hummus darling,like we had in turkey.do say Hagia Sophia again saskia
no hagia sofia ok,lin-gwee-knee for mummy
I experienced performance parenting at the year 2 Christmas party - 'Oh no [insert precious child's name] we don't have anything with additives. Here's some yummy organic breadsticks and homemade hummus'. All said very loudly, while her poor dd looked mortified at having a very small cup cake snatched from her hands.
exotic but if I want to talk about art, sushi or nutrition with my child then I can! don't care if people judge. I want my DC to understand more than hop, hop goes the frigging froggy.
I don't talk too loudly but yes...I might mention "Not that one, we have the organic one....in the green packet." as I'm educating them about how to eat and shop.
my kids went to a party was all hummus,carrots.asked loudly for cake and chocolate
even worse when offered a baked unflavoured crisp imposter. cried for pom bears
went to macdonaolds afterwards.for additives, and hydrogenated fats
Never heard of loud parenting before- I definitely talk a lot to dd... Really hope people don't think I do it for anyone else's benefit other than dd's. Mind you, I've got quite a quiet voice so hopefully no one hears me when I'm walking down the street singing twinkle twinkle [thinking of all the times of done that and cringing]
Good for you, Scottish.
It's all fair enough to feed children well but to deny cake at a birthday party is barbaric. Their kids will go mad for 'forbidden' food as soon as they are old enough and stuff themselves with cake.
I think that singing Twinkle Twinkle is very sweet.
Explaining a 10 months old how to wrap sushi... Well... !
at party no cake,no chocolate.but really nice home made fruit ice lolly though
but no the mum doesn't do cake,chocolate,it was all dips and crudities
her kids up to her! just mine have expectation of something from m&s thats chocolate
Good on you Scottish . A party without proper party food is not a good party imo
Oh god! An ex friend who i had the misfortune of bumping into was doing this recently. "oh wingey wingey wingey, we don't like wingey do we? No we don't, we don't like wingey wingey wingey noise . . . " and on and on and on. The wingeing was actually fairly quiet and unobtrusive but the bloody woman saying so loud that she didn't like wingey wingey wingey was much more annoying! Was so loud no one could concentrate on what we were talking about and eventually all just stopped and sighed.
Winge hating woman is an arsehole generally though.
Twinkle twinkle is lovely but if you were really on the ball you'd have incorporated a rhyme about how to make sushi to the tune.
how slack you didn't sing twinkle in french.you clearly dont care enough
My loud parenting is put in use when trying to get ds round the supermarket without being nagged for magazine/sweets/toys.
"Right, go and get a baggy and get me 4 carrots. Over there, look, carrots. Four. THANK YOU!!"
"Now, where are the eggs? I can never remember. Over there? Show me then"
I get him to help me pack the shopping too. It's not showy offy, it's just a distraction technique.
My sister does the constant narration thing though. Everything is a lesson. Her children are immaculately behaved though.
I only read the first page and it made me cry.
I can't believe that chatting to a baby or a child or even singing to them in public is yet another area a parent would be judged on!
I get that the "let's eat sushi" or "counting in mandarin" show off comments are just dumb, but how communicating with your children can be seen as loud parenting or so heartlessly criticized is beyond me!
I make my kids laugh with the silliest comments and conversations & will teach them about anything I can, wherever we are and if people overhear it and judge me about it I think there's something very wrong with them!
I don't know if it's jelaousy or ignorance or envy, but it makes me feel sad.
And that it's going on in a country where people are so proud of being tolerant and PC makes it even worse.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
you cried?really?did you read thread this inst regular parent-child dialogue#you dont need to wring your hand feeling you personally can never talk to own child think youre seeking to be offended and whats world coming to,even mentioned pc
A friend was helping professionally with a child with limited speech development. It became apparent why there were problems when the mother say "he dont speak to me so I dont speak to him". Right. He was a toddler - would much prefer loud parenting to the alternative...
its not tough tits at all its source of high amusement.and its free
the parental braying and loud commentary is soundtrack to where i live
why would i need earplugs when i need to listen to know what part to deride onmn
I did a spot of loud parenting earlier. Purely because ds was having a massive tantrum in the shoe shop because the shoes his best mate has were too wide for his feet so he had to have a different pair. People were staring and tutting so I wanted them to know I was dealing with it appropriately
Oooh God, perspective!
I am all for talking to children. I just get bemused by parents overparenting: ie explaining the nutritional qualities of carrots to an 8 months old (wouldn't be bemused if the same discussion went on with a3 yr old).
Loud parenting is better than "stick them facing away from you in the pushchair with a dummy in so I can chat to my mates on my mobile" parenting, which is what I see a lot around here. I'd be giving any loud parents a mental pat on the back! There is the extreme version which is designed to show off, but if they are just chatting to their small child and trying to teach them new words, what is the problem?
The difference is that if you are doing the loud, performance parenting properly, you will not be engaging in eye contact with your child whilst spouting all this knowledge, because you will be too busy trying to make eye contact with any adult watching so that you can look smug.
This is the difference between that and normal talking to your child and teaching them things as you potter around the supermarket.
Freakoid, what did you tell him? You didn't forget to list the pros and cons of living in a consumerIst society?
some are just seeking a reason to be offended
hell if this makes you seethe or cry don't go near baby names threads
some of you have a v fragile disposition if this makes you cry or get all tough titties
I knew it! The evil forwaRd facing pushchairs! I knew they'd come up!
I was walking through a shop with DD once, about a year ago, and she said ' oh look. That looks like a Kandinsky'
The woman looked up startled and said 'it is. How do you know that'
I looked like a massive twat. I had to rush her off.
The reason she knew is because DS1 was doing work based upon Kandinsky for his GCSE and DD (trying to make him talk to her) kept saying 'what ishis name again...who did this one...is that who you want be like then, what's his name..'
To which DS1 would eventually say 'for the 100th time - it's fucking Kandinsky'
So either I looked like a snobby twat who had taken my 6 year old to do art appreciation or I let her reply 'my brother loves fucking Kandinsky' and I look like a foul mouthed harridan
That is true. Performance parenting is about the audience not the baby.
I was performance parenting with DS1 once and he vomited in my mouth. I totally deserved it. It was like karma.
Amazing some children really DO like Sushi! It's not "dumb" to talk to them about where they're eating or what they're eating! My older DD has loved Sushi since she was tiny.
Sorry if that offends. Not.
yes loud parenting isnt necessarily for child,its all look(hear) how right-on,parent is
See Pag, I would have thought your dd to be very cool.
Of course lots of children like sushi. No one gets hocked by that.
She is pretty cool.
She just doesn't know much about art and has said 'fuck' more often than she probably ought
No, talking to your baby is FINE
It's the parents who 'performance talk' to their babies. It's loud enough so no one in the area could possibly not notice what a fucking great parent they are
Its not talking to children that i object to, its doing in unnecessarily loudly! So loud that those around can't hear themselves think. You know when you try to add up and someone near you starts counting and you lose track, its like that.
Its really nothing to cry about.
As for forward facing pushchairs! My dcs had them. I used to still chat away to them and them back, would lean over or stop buggy and get down to their level if appropriate. Just because a child is facing away from you doesn't mean you can't communicate but does mean the child sees more of the world around them which in turn prompts conversation and observation, so not all bad, if at all.
Well-I am pretty glad that people don't know (or won't admit) a difference because I can continue to be entertained by it!
(I used to go around the supermarket counting carrots into bags etc but no one would ever have heard except my DCs or someone standing right next to us-there is no need for the whole aisle to hear)
fuckadoodle, nooooooo! You are opening a can of worms with the forward facing buggies topic
Mrs Mushroom - I was referring to a previous poster saying about a mum who appeared to be showing off.
I agree with some of the posters who said that using a child to show off is annoying.
I was also trying to point out that educating them about whatever is important to you or interests them shouldn't be criticized.
sorry if that wasn't clear!
right so you've stopped crying?can you compose yourself to stay?
can you genuinely see this isnt the normal parental-child dialogue thats being discussed
Ha ha! I didn't start it!
Cambridge seems full of loud parents.
Last time we went there was a fenton on the train who every movement was commented on.
Today Ds 17 and I went to the zoology museum and It was full of parent saying that's a hippotomous say hippotomous Emily.
Ds and i ended up rescuing Emily as she was out the front door without her mother noticing. We stood for a few minutes stopping her and her even smaller brother going out and the mothervdidnt turn round once to see that they were doing.
It's actually really oppressive to other children and parents in the vicinity because the loud parenters use up all of the decibel space so no one else can talk or listen!
I really hate it actually
You do see lots of parents who are fully engaged with their children and obviously talking all the time-they get it right because you can't actually hear what they are discussing.
Not to mention oppressive to their own DCs, Framey-they must want peace and quiet to think!
"a Fenton on the train" bruffin?
Was the 'Fenton , Fenton , Jesus Christ Fenton ..' shouted across the train distracting.
And everyone knows it's a Hippo-Bottomous anyway bruffin.
Right, next time I namechange it's going to be either BaconyKnees or FuckingKandinsky
scottishmummy my culture is different, so whatever is normal to me will raise eyebrows time and again.
I have spent the last 15 years trying to figure out what is "normal" in this country. It is not easy.
I do not look to be offended, but I'm a sensitive person and the thought of being sneered at because I do or say things or behave in an unusual way hurts my feelings.
that's about the size of it.
pagwatch - what's wrong with taking a six year old into a gallery, or even let them learn the names of painters whose work they like? It's no different to a child knowing everything about dinosaurs/tractors/whatever else takes their fancy.
There is nothing wrong with it. I've done it. As it goes DD loves the Tate.
It was just funny. In the situation she sounded horribly precocious. But I knew she was also likely to say fucking Kandinsky.
It was just an anecdote. Not everyone on the thread is after a barney.
I used to love it when my dad took me round the galleries in London, when I was six.
All that beautiful art to take in... and all those naked bottoms. I was soooo cultured.
I remember a trip to the Cuttysark around the same time. My brothers went off with my dad learning all about life on the ship whilst I stayed with my mum and played with the ship's cat.
i like kelvingrove galleries,used to go there as wean
crackin big exhibits and musty ole charm
good caffs near by on dumbarton rd
pag sorry - didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you, just puzzled by why actually it seems to be generally cringeworthy if children know or are taught stuff which is perceived as 'highbrow'. Almost as if an education is something to be embarrassed about.
Dd once informed an RSPB tour type person that the bird she had been telling everyone was a young Herring Gull was, in fact, a female Eider duck. She was 6 and really into her birds.
She didn't say 'fuck' though. She does now though, a lot.
It's alright WidowWadham.
Wow, there are some nasty, cutting remarks on this thread. I love how people think it's fine to be this way online, but would never speak to people like that in person. It sickens me that people have expressed upset at some of the comments on here and then been really nastily responded to. I wonder what kind of comments I might get for writing this (and can already picture 'who' will respond!). Some cowardly people about.
For the record, my DD (11) loves going to Birmingham Art Gallery (despite me knowing bugger all about art and never 'teaching' her about it, loudly or otherwise). She's always been a forward child and her own Dad has called her posh on more than one occasion! Some kids just soak up everything they get exposed to and my DD is one of those. Doesn't make me a some smug middle class Mum though. Too much judging going on here methinks.
I have nothing against children being exposed to "highbrow" topics.
I object to 10 months old being talked to, or having things explained as if they were 5, or 21 in many cases I had the chance to witness.
You do get that no one was being rude about going to galleries don't you?
again some of you are determined to think this is a detraction of you,your parenting
there is wilful misreading,and seeking offence going on,unless you are aloud parent
repeatedly people have said this isnt the usual parental rapport this has been wilfully ignored to maximise offence and affronted how dare you stance
Pag, no, that's not what I was referring to - there was a lot of defending of that topic actually.
I meant that one Mum said the responses made her cry and the nastiness directed her way was awful, as if she'd mentioned drowning kittens or supporting euthanising the disabled ffs.
I just think people are very quick to make nasty remarks because they're online that they wouldn't necessarily make in real life.
I see where your coming from about what parents are saying to their babies but its such a natural instinct to talk to them all the time.
Although I always ended up talking to my DD when she was tiny in such a high voice, I tended to forget I was in public making silly squeaking noises and singing!
Thats good. I just wasn't sure why you needed to talk about your DD going to a gallery as if anyone would disapprove or think it was odd.
oh i see worried mum,you want to be offended on someone else behalf?
so you havent directly been offended but since you reckon someone else was you pile in
given the poster concerned hasnt raised any particular gripe,i fail to see why you do
Scottish, I like how you know exactly who/what I'm talking about! Actually, I'm making the point that people think it's fine to make bitchy/cutting remarks when it's online talk. I'm not 'offended' on anyone's behalf - I just find this kind of behaviour offensive. And I don't think for a second that you'd take that aggressive tone with me if we were talking face to face!
its online,i dont have a tone with you, we do however have the words on the screen
People persist in misunderstanding! I took mine to art galleries-museums etc -why wouldn't you?
The loud parent isn't listening to the DC-they are not taking up the cues-they are not giving them time to think-they are giving a monologue that just becomes background noise and the DC opted out long before! You never hear the child's voice in performance parenting, and when they do find one the parent gives up because the child isn't giving the 'approved' answers! i.e. they are childlike in response and not out to impress the casual listener.
I also can't think that addressing a child with delayed speech as if they were a public meeting is much help!
Scottish, that's no argument, given that writing DOES have tone to it. Otherwise how would people study literature? One of the things you look for is tone in the language used. So yes, you do have a tone in your writing and it's quite sarcastic and belittling to others at times. And yes, I find that offensive. As for the words you use, would you use those words in a face to face conversation? I think not. Not unless you're constantly arguing with people in reality!
would i say this in rl,you bet
i think loud parenting is v peculiar,and undertaken quite conspicuously
why would i seek to downplay this pov in rl. i do laugh about loud parents in rl
It probably wouldn't ifit really is a public address tone of voice.
Like I said upthread, when the tone and content seems designed to be overheard it isn't for the child.
But (fwiw) i was actually told to speak loudly and clearly to ds.
Part of his problem wasn't just failing to repeat language but he struggled to hear speech clearly amidst background noise. It's an auditory processing thing - he couldn't screen out ambient noise but we had to kep getting and maintaining his attention.
It did make me look like a wanker sometimes but I didn't mind really. Same old..
Some people have completely got the wrong end of the stick about loud performance parenting.
No one here has said anything belittling about talking to your child or using very clear enunciation (especially with SEN children).
It is specifically those parents who are not engaging with their children/babies but are talking very loudly AT them and then looking around to see who is watching and then looking smug.
lets be clear im not getting into a verbal you say i say with you
im not biting
youre trying too hard its obvious
Trying to hard at what exactly? And would you look at that - a thank you from amazingmumof6 for taking her side. So yeah, looks like maybe she WAS offended by your, frankly, obnoxious and bordering on bullying comments but maybe didn't feel up to taking you on herself. By making the comments you made, you WERE biting. End of.
I figure that a 3 month old is not going to understand anything I say. So why shouldn't I talk about complex mathematical theory if it's what interests me?
You are being a bit disingenuous here Worried, we all cross the line often on MN, it is one of the reasons while we like it.
On MN it is easier to be understanding, generous, sarcastic, and unfortunately rude at times, than in RL
WorriedMummy, seems like it's you who are doing the attacking here not scottishmummy!
Your 'tone' is pretty aggressive!
Yes, but do you do it sufficiently loudly and then look around for applause?
Why, not while.
The tablet is wearing off...
talk about what you want frankly,as repated on thread its not the talking
its the loud,conspicuous delivery,this isnt mums talkin to their kids
this isnt about whether or not you talk,sing,go galleries.but its already been explained
Franca - but it's not ok if it's having a go at someone who said they were genuinely upset by comments made. That's just nasty. And being online only makes it worse because it's cowardly. Just because it's online that doesn't make it ok to be rude.
I just want to say 'Oh FFS shut up woman!'
JollyRedGiant, nobody minds anyone talking about anything to a baby...
It's when they DO IT SO LOUDLY for the benefit of the general public rather than the baby.
Framey - no, aggressive would be 'bring it on', 'I'm going to get you' stuff. Why is it ok to have a go at someone who says they were upset? But I'm being aggressive? Weird.
That's the type of parenting at the museum today the exotic. The children wernt showing any interest at all the mum was talking at them and was ignoring them completely when they were making their escape.
Yes Pagwatch on the train it was distracting, it was distracting. It was both parents loudly parenting Fenton. We weren't sitting next to them we were half a carriage away and all you could hear was Fenton this and Fenton that. Fenton was a baby and spilt his drink and everyone in the carriage got to know about
You are accusing another poster of being aggressive even though she has not used the phrases 'bring it on' and 'I'm going to get you' or similar. But you are aghast that anyone would accuse you of the same.
Oh, the baby was called Fenton! I thought it was a kind of person, like a chav! I was very confused...
i quite like fenton as a name, dont they make ginger beer
I'm not aghast in the slightest. But she had a go at me for defending someone else and now you're defending her? Interesting dynamic here.
At least he wasn't chasing deer.
Pag - ahahahahahahaha! Thanks for the reminder of that dog, priceless.
I'm not defending anyone. I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of your accusations.
its highly fucking annoying, I totally agree actually.
I never pulled this shit with mine and they can all talk. I'm not sure that counts as a stealth boast as they are all school age.
Yep the baby was called Fenton.
I think of Fenton Solicitors scottismummy. They are forever advertising on the radio
but it is funny, in a sniggery omg way
I didn't actually accuse anyone - I just said that there were some nasty and cutting comments on here. If anyone took that as an accusation against them (when I patently named no names) then maybe they had something to feel guilty about - ie, something they might have posted in this thread. I stand by my original point, that is people are more sarcastic and biting online than they ever would be in real life. That is the point I was making and the comments further up this thread support what I've said.
it IS funny, I agree, but far more so if you have another mum of older kids to snigger with.
if you are on your own trying to quietly read a book its a real PITA.
observing loud parenting it is free and plentiful where i live.love it
say lin-gwee-knee darling was overhead in supermarket, was priceless
I heard a Mum call one of her children 'dahhhhhhhling' very loudly earlier. It is difficult not to turn and look really quickly!
'she' is Scottishmummy, who jumped in when I made my original point, where I named no one and accused no one specific. If you read my original post, you'll see that I mentioned no one in particular, just commented that remarks were nasty and cutting.
I'm talking about your subsequent exchanges.
Manic - what about our subsequent exchanges? I've completely lost the thread of what we were talking about now.
I said I cried
scottishmummie's reply was "you cried?really?did you read thread"
then later " right so you've stopped crying?"
I found that rude.
I hope this clarifies things.
* worriedmummy73* - again thank you
My mum called us all dahhhling, very loudly at all times. I think that was because she had lots of children, so she didn't have to remember our names!
V. V embarrassing when you are 12 though!--still embarrassing now--
A bit of gentle ribbing. Hardly a reason for all this fuss really.
I can't be bothered with all this toing and froing with she said, she did. I get enough of that in work.
Things to do. Monsters to kill.
My friend's Dad used to call me 'sunshine' which I loved til my friend told me he called all kids that (including his own 5) cos he couldn't remember who he was talking to. With me and my siblings (there are 4 of us) it was 'piglet' or 'spodge'. Cute, until you realise your Dad doesn't remember your name!
manicbmc - gentle ribbing is generally followed by smiles & grins
there was none, and I found the comments rude and unnecessary.
<back to friendlier waters>
FENTIMAN's ginger beer, that's the stuff. They are now producing alcoholic ginger beer.
I apologise for laughing out loud at op's gin related comments, and also for not reading all 14 pages of the thread.
not had the alcoholic ginger beer! but fentimans old cola is really nice
I found the actual OP made me smile. Like this
thought the op was laugh out loud funny
You do need to enunciate clearly, and probably quite loudly, to a DC with language problems BUT you also need to look at them and make sure they are listening. The performance parent just talks on regardless- the child works out early on that nothing is needed in return, and in fact it is better not to try, and they just let it wash over them. I have never heard a response from a DC when it is a performance parent - it is all one way and they are never quiet enough to pick up any cues from a baby.
Oh dear, I'm going to sound bad. I usually have to talk loudly over DD (usually)when DS has asked me a question and wants an answer but DD just won't even pause for breath. Even DS complains about her "chatter boxing" . I have no idea how many people must have heard about the water cycle done for 4 year olds but I can assure you, I wasn't trying to show off, I was just trying to answer questions without gagging DD.
But, exotic fruits, that (ie the performance parenting that you describe) isn't what is in the op. The woman in the op is doing that sort of running commentary thing that people do, when they are just kind of babbling away at their babies.
I went to coffee mornings when mine were babies but would have given up if every mother carried on like that!
I do it to occupy my boisterous, curious toddler "Oh look at that picture. How many yellow bags can you count? Lets sing a song. Twinkle Twinkle.." Otherwise I have to resort to the other kind of loud parenting "Oi- get back here! stop running around! Put that down!" Which would you rather hear? Not all kids are naturally easygoing DD has also been complimented on her ability to communicate.
I do know what people mean about Latin and Caviar though - but that's a different kind of parenting altogether imo.
I would dearly dearly love to know where some of you live, just to experience this amazing loud parenting.
I really truelly cannot understand the mindset of anyone - saying things to thier children that are false or exagerated - just for thier audience which seems to include so many of you on here?
Be very, very, careful when you are saying...."oh look at that picture", it could be construed as prententcious by your ....^listeners^...depending on the picture of course....
any poncy fair tradey caff,or mothers group,sling meet all the loud parents hang there
oh I see, well I dont go to cafes or sling meets - whatever they may be?
And all the mothers groups I have been to have had a range of types of people there but parenting in the special way you describe is something I have never come across.
Lucky you eliza, last time I had to go to the local baby clinic there was a woman doing performance parenting in the waiting area. She was so loud, none of the other Mums could speak to each other or their babies because it was a none stop loud monologue of LOUD SHITE.
I do it a lot. but I always think of mn when I do it, so it's proper exaggerated
What are these cutting comments towards amazingmumof6 that you mentioned? I didn't notice anything cutting. I can't help but think you have misunderstood or perhaps not read the thread seeing as you thought that it was about criticising people who take their kids to museums. Which of course its not at all. If you don't understand the thread how could you understand the comments?
Worriedmummy and amazingmum - I'm with you. And quite surprised at the support certain posters' nasty comments are getting.
I'm still surprised that people can't differentiate and have no idea what constitutes a 'performance parent'. (Everyone should be talking to their DC, visiting museums, speaking clearly etc-that is not loud/performance parenting).
extracrunchy. What exactly are these nasty comments? You and they have mentioned them but not actually quoted any.
If anyone feels a post is nasty or constitutes a personal attack they are supposed to report it.
Mnhq ask that you do.
It is much more productive than veiled complaints about 'certain posters' and as the virtue of not turning the thread into a sort of whine.
Oh, these threads always going the same way, with a load of disingenuous types pitching up, seemingly not being able to differentiate...
T'was ever thus. If they want to be offended, let them get on with it, I say. Everyone's happy.
I'm in the mood to make a nasty post so that some posters actually have something to complain about. Until that happens, A Grip, Therefore I Go.
Some people definitely can't differentiate IRL though, or think it's inappropriate to talk
at all to a baby or young child, which makes me sad. Talk to, not at. Interact with.
Otherwise you wouldn't need an "Every Child a Talker" campaign.
Yes Hobbitatoin and the vitriol aimed at those who talk to thier children can make SOME people self conscious to talk to thier child at all.
The great thing about winter is there is noone in the park to hear me parent loudly!!!
I agree at least they speak to kids and give a shit
Do you know, I hate to seem argumentative but I honestly don't believe that.
I don't think vitriol is thrown at people who talk to their babies. It isn't on here and it isn't in real life.
I understand that people can feel as though the 'loud parenting' thing is being aimed at them but I think that is a misunderstanding on what some on this thread are joking about.
Maybe, until you have seen and really noticed some 'performance parenting' it s hard to get that it is actually quite ridiculous - and not at all an engaged parent chatting happily with their child.
But I genuinely don't believe anyone mocks parents chatting to their child. And no one aims vitriol at performance parenting - this is an on line gawfaw at the preposterousness of it. And I can say that as I have admitted doing it
As I say, I am not trying to argue buto suggest that parents will stop talking to their much loved child because of a bit of on line snurking is overly dramatic.
I don't think people on here will, but some people are afraid to speak up in public lest people overhear and judge them. I know as I used to be like this in my teens and into my 20s.
There is so much judgement about parenting anyway - more than there ever used to be, IMO - usually based on a snapshot of someone's life you might see when out and about) and parents are regularly undermined in the media. So it's no wonder people feel the need to pronounce their 'good' parenting to others or feel less than confident about chatting with kids.
Well, at least she's communicating with her child...but oh dear God!!!! That would drive me insane
Yes Hobbitation. I agree with about parenting being endlessly judged. Especially in the media. As soon as an accident/incident occurs the behaviour/attitude of the parents is judged. It's grim.
I was just responding to the idea that this thread could do that
NOt to mention it sound like they are talking AT their child rather than To them.
I agree Hob, and people think its a good idea to talk to baby may now feel more self counsciouse in case someone is watching them - listening to them and thinking they are a twat.
I have to admit until I came on here I never ever thought someone might be actually listening to me talk to MY baby and thinking something of it!
I used to do this. Mostly it was just chit chat with this little human I suddenly had who didn't understand but seemed to like my voice. Sometimes it was a bandaid over the oft felt crushing lonliness you can encounter when it's just you and a small person who dribbles and poohs. Sometimes it was my insecurity and lack of confidence showing, a kind of "I am doing this right, am I doing this right?" and occassionally it was done on purpose when I was around others who spoke to their children not at all, or those who looked like they were getting their judgeypants in a twist over something or other. (Whether they were judging or not I don't know, some probably weren't).
It IS funny to listen to, sometimes annoying but it's harming no one.
I had a lovely cup of coffee and a chat with a complete stranger and her baby a few weeks ago, maybe you could say hello instead of slag them off on some forum? Although if you start doing that to every mum who's speaking to their child, you'll probably come on here and find a thread about how annoying people who 'seem to think you want to talk to them' are.
You can't win.
You know, very young children really don't need to be stimulated and distracted every moment of the day...they really don't.
Keeping up a relentless, constant stream of 'Look at that car, it's red...oh, look a dog, nice dog...shall we go in this shop...look at all those oranges...look at all the nice green grapes...do you want to hold the grapes...look at that little baby...etc, etc...is just pointless.
Why are parents so terrified of their children just sitting and observing for a few minutes? They're not going to implode if they are not constantly being distracted/entertained/enaged with...
All too often parents create children who need constant distraction/stimulation...and before you know where you are, you have a 3/4 year old who can't travel 20 minutes in a car without a DVD playing, and their fave Barney CD playing on a loop
And, further down the line you have 5/6/7 year olds who are incapable of occupying/entertaining themselves for even 15 minutes...because their parents have constantly provided a dizzying plethora of entertainments, and stimulations and distractions and activities...filling just about every waking moment.
'Oh, it's Tuesday, so we have Tumble Tots, followed by Toddler Splash...then Gymborree...then it's the park...then Baby French - she's always so exhausted by the end of Tuesdays...' No shit, Sherlock
Then, as they get to school 'Yes, we have gym club on Mondays, followed by piano, then we can just about squeeze in swimming...but, then it's the full swimming session on Tuesday, followed by ballet...then Wednesdays it's Dance Club, then trampolining...Saturdays, we have football, then it's cricket nets...then swimming...
These poor kids are fryed to the eyeballs, and hyped on excessively busy schedules. They. Don't. Know. How. To. Just. Be.
Young childrem need downtime, to process their thoughts, and reflect and ponder a bit...they need to just chill out, and doodle quietly, and sift through the contents of a box in their playroom, or stare out of a window...
They don't need some anxious, over-zealous parent wittering in the background 'Come on, come down stairs Cressida, shall we do some baking before your ballet class, or why not practice your violin...shall we read a book...?'
To illustrate - went shopping with my Auntie yesterday, she has 10 year old grandsons, who need constant attendence/stimulation...
All day she felt she had to be in Entertainer Mode with my DDs - she couldn't get her head round the fact that they could simply sit down and enjoy an hour long lunch, without needing a 3-Ring circus performing for them - and that no our shopping trip didn't need punctuating with 2 separate trips to the Play Area, actually.
Maybe the parent lets them observe most of the day whilst they are doing other things round the house - or working from home and when they go out the parents sees THATS the time to really chat and do the talking thing, because the parent has nothing else to do at that moment except focus on her child.
I agree with Pagwatch.
I do occasionally slip into performance parenting. I am totally aware of that. Thankfully I am not devoid of sense of humour and happily laugh at my occasional smuggery.
I haven't read the whole thread (oh c'mon it's 16 pages. I have a life) but I think its usually easy to tell the difference between a parent who's just casually interacting with their child (OK Josh, give the lady the packet of sweets so we can pay for them) and the type who's performing in front of an audience (Now Josh. What do we do with the sweets? Do we give them to the lady? Yes, we do, don't we? We do give them to the lady. Because we want to pay for them, don't we?').
And I agree with LaQueen. Some kids mustn't even know any of the other children on their road or have any inner resources whatsoever because they spend their time in the back of the car being driven from Joejingles to Waterbabies to ToddlerTennis to piano to extra french to speech and drama etc etc etc. A grandparent wanting to take them to a pantomime nearly has to book an appointment three months in advance.
I did it once on the train on my first train trip alone with DD (aged 4). Look at the sheep darling, theres a river etc etc eventually DD said "can you just be quiet please mummy"
maybe keralas dd caught sight of some woman rolling her eyes to the high heavens and shifting in her seat thinking " here we go - some horrid LOUD paretning about to go on here"...so the poor child felt compelled to ask her mother to be quiet. ?
Or maybe she just wanted to hear the sound of her own thoughts...
I think Kerlas DD sounds fantastic. But most 4 year olds are not really able to recognise eye rolling, extrapolate from that that the person rolling their eyes is irritated by loud parenting and translate that into social embaressment sufficient to ask her mother to desist an activity she was thoroughly enjoying.
She might I suppose. Maybe that was why DS1 threw up in my mouth - so advanced and acutely mortified by my yammering on that he regurgitated as e not yet developed adequate speech to convey his mortification.
Fucking genius baby I had.
What LaQueen said.
I see so many children (school age) who haven't got the foggiest idea of how to entertain themselves because their parents have played the court jester from birth.
Pagwatch has an extremely good point there.
most children would find constant commentary when out and about over stimulating - think about it, they're in a relatively new place (it's unlikely you'd go to the same place every single day), so they're already topped up with learning experiences - new lights, new smells, new things to look at, maybe new things to touch.
if you then pile in on them with your own observations, you will most likely tire the child out and make them fractious and whiney (or they'll cry/tantrum)
so, when you go somewhere new, wait for their cues - the child should be able to let you know when they need to interact with you, same as when they're hungry or need a new nappy.
DD is mostly quite happy to be left to her own devices, even in this shop where we spend all day. she'll happily eat, drink, play with stuff without my interaction. when she wants me to talk with her, she'll get my attention and I'll play with her, read to her, or pull her up on my knee and show her what I'm doing. when she's had enough, she whines to be let down again.
Yes though - I agree with LaQueen too.
I remember my mum saying to me 'will you just let him be for a bit'. It was great advice
Wonderful post LeQueen! Every time I see the 'performance parent' the DC is taking no part at all-you can see that they don't listen-they just let it wash over them. They need time to process it all-they give up listening because before they have even thought about what is being said the parent has moved on to the next.
I am a person who likes time by myself and silence-the mother who keeps up a running commentary of what she is doing would drive me demented!
One of my favourite sayings was 'as a mother I am a lot of things but I am not your chief entertainer'!
It is like everything-in moderation. Talk but listen, and give a bit of benign neglect. You wouldn't want a friend who rambles on and never lets you get a word in edgeways or never has a silence and I can't imagine why a baby or toddler are any different.
despite reassurance this isn't regular parental rapport
some are determined to do theface,sagely recall all they're doing is talkin
oh but the ridicule,vitriol inhibits the regular aren't,they feel so put upon.professionally offended
I just feel so sorry for these children, relentlessly whisked to and fro to all these activities. And all the time, their parents are just deluging them in stuff and more and more stuff....every moment must be accounted for...every activity comes with a long list of accessories...trips to the activities...trips to buy the accessories...packing and unpacking the accessories...
And, yet so rarely do the parents actually take time to just listen properly to their child, and just watch and look at their child.
Instead, the parent is driving the train, and stoking the fire like a maniac, and above the roar and the noise and the steam, they simply can't hear or see their child who is sat back in carriage no. 3.
"Instead, the parent is driving the train, and stoking the fire like a maniac, and above the roar and the noise and the steam, they simply can't hear or see their child who is sat back in carriage no. 3. "
Love your little story there - but this of course is totallly differnet to a mum talking to her baby about mundane stuff at an NCT meet up!
this isn't thread about regular parental rapport.it's the loud,yappy show off parent
irrelevant where it happens,what's of note is volume,content,drone,performance
this is the performance for onlookers,talking at not to the chikdv
Well, exactly exotic - would people feel relaxed/comfortable in the company of a friend who relentlessly babbled on about everything and anything, rarely stopping to listen before jumping to the next topic...and the next...and the next?
No, of course they wouldn't...
The best/strongest friendships are where you can enjoy comfortable silences together...and where your rapport is so good that often just a half-smile, or a glance in their direction can accurately convey a 1000 words.
I'm like you - I enjoy my own company and I'm quite self contained, so I never babbled relentlessly at my DDs, and I didn't really talk at them. To be honest, I always listened, a lot more than I ever talked. But, when I talked, I talked to them.
eliz why would the Mum at a NCT meet-up be talking to her baby all the time, when there are other Mums at the meet-up to chat to?
Babies/toddlers learn best when exposed to normal, adult conversations and exchanges - with adult intonations, inflections, rhytmns etc.
It's far better for them to hear that style of conversation than empty Motherese 'Yes, look at dolly...dolly...it's a dolly, isn't it...try and say dolly...say dolly...dolly...'
"Babies/toddlers learn best when exposed to normal, adult conversations and exchanges - with adult intonations, inflections, rhytmns etc.
It's far better for them to hear that style of conversation than empty Motherese 'Yes, look at dolly...dolly...it's a dolly, isn't it...try and say dolly...say dolly...dolly...'"
Have you a source to back this up? From what I've read hearing conversation without being addressed and interacted with does not do much for language acquisition, otherwise children who are plonked in front of TV instead of spoken with would pick up language easily from there. Children need to be spoken to in order to work out how language works.
This is not to say that parents should never have adult conversations at a toddler group, that'd be silly. But saying that not talking to your child (motherese or not) is better than talking to your child, is silly too.
I cannot believe after all this time that some people still don't GET IT.
Here we go:
This is normal and nobody will bat an eyelid at you:
'Look at the plane!'
'Can you see the oranges?'
'Point to the red ones'
'Did you know that people used to live in that castle?'
'oh dear we got all wet in the rain'
This is 'performance parenting' and you look stupid:
'We only want the organic ones because they do awful things to those chickens in barns. Yes that lady there is buying barn eggs, maybe she can't afford the nice organic ones like we can, or maybe she doesn't care'
'When we get home mummy will help you with your homework. What set are you in again? Top set? What are you learning now? Trigonometry? Oh my, you're so smart for an 8 year old aren't you!'
Really Boomerwang? Up thread someone pointed out a sheep in a field on a train and that was in the talking AT the child =- catagory and then went on into mad activities with parents and steam engines.
in the original op - she was talking about a mum at a coffee meeting talking mundane shite.
those who are so keen on talking about what they call performance parenting....
why dont you start your own threads about that specific subject?
normal is telling a child in normal conversational tones (in much thexsame way you would talk.to friends or yourself)
not normal and performing is loudly telling your child something then repeating it and then asking the child if they can say it without even looking to check the child is listening.
btw I LOVE how the word organic is mentioned over and over and over again by the performance parenting monitors!!!
Organic and humous!!! I imagine you walk past people whilst shopping, going about your business - all sorts of words and bits of conversations hit you in your subconscisous....then you ... hear the word " organic" and your triggered into your evesdropping and snearing. Then the prepetrator - feels you watching them, turns round or catches your eye - and you think
got em', she was looking round there for an audience - i KNEW it.
eliza the op said the woman literally verbalizes everything into a lesson.
mummy can't find the phone james phone PHONE we ring daddy on the phone.
that's exactly what we're talking about.
Oh dear ... if you heard me you would At the request of speech threapy i talk a lot and make ds1 say whole sentences. When we are out, with lots of back ground noise, i also talk loudly (not shouting) but then he has ANSD - i.e hearing loss.
people don't notice.
iwas at the till in sainsbury's loudly complaining that the person in front obviously didn't care about animal welfare or chickens' lives because of the eggs they bought and that the co-op only sold free range qnd organic eggs.
mrs pear, you had better start wearing a plastic card round your neck explaining this as there are people watching, listening and judging you behind every aisle apparently,
mrspear. you're okay because we assyme that you are constantly checking to make sure your ds is paying attention. that's the main difference.
the loyd or performance parent doesn't care if the child notices, only the other adults.
Not sure if I did it when they were young, but I do have a habit of now talking to my computer....and the fridge.....and my car keys.....I may have problem.
" we assume" love it, are you secretly recording as well, feeding it back to base, one of you closing in on footage, narrow eyes chewing the end of a pencil......she's ok, she checked her son four times in three miuntes
I performance parent to my cats, I've realised, rather than my kids. I think that may be more of a problem than anything else on this entire thread, or indeed, on Mumsnet as a whole!
It's a very clear distinction really. Because the performance parent will not particularly be making eye contact with the child. They will be looking around at other people waiting for applause.
I'm pretty certain someone with a child with hearing problems or SN, will be trying to engage eye contact as well as talking loudly and clearly.
Worried, I also performance parent to my cat. Shall we start a support group?
Manic - I think that is an excellent idea! I have three cats, but one in particular is just so responsive when I use my performance voice that it's quite freaky. 'Yes, you ARE a clever boy, Ted, yes you are! Would you like some food? Say food! What a clever boy! Now roll over, yes, roll over for Mummy'. Quite alarming...
Mine is like that. You get little meows as answers.
well there is certainly apparently a huge auidience out there for it - they love listening into other peoples convos - and am sure will love hearing you talk to your cats....
My cat chirrups, rather than meows. Don't you Ted? Yes you do, yes you do, because you're a clever boy, yes you are! I'm actually like that woman with the little dog in the insurance ads (oh no, he never walks!)
She'll put her head to one side and then (because she's got no front teeth) she does this 'smile'.
Pmsl at the mental image of cat with no front teeth smiling! Unless you're referring to yourself, Manic, in which case, get thee to a dentist!
I have the front ones but they stole my wisdom!
Well, I hope you got something from the Tooth Fairy. And did you know the going rate is now £5 a tooth apparently!?! Mine get a pound and I hyperventilate at that amount. That's a whole other thread right there...
Luckily my kids are well passed losing teeth.
I got wine when I lost mine.
I will try giving mine wine when they next lose some and let you all know how that works out...
Right that's it. You're doing it on purpose. Well done, you got your way.
I'm getting tired of just about every thread falling to bits because some people are deliberately twisting the words of others, or purposely refusing to understand the point. You must be doing it on purpose, because you can't possibly be that thick.
'You' refers to those that know they are doing it.
Another reason to avoid NCT groups. I hate all baby talk, and did not use it with mine - they got spoken to in normal voices....
Boomer - I hope that wasn't me and my cats...
I think that the difference is that you should be talking to your child - which means a normal voice and looking them in the eye and waiting for a response. It means having pauses.
I can't see any point in treating them as a passive audience and just talking on and on without a pause or interaction.
The first gets them listening, the second means they can just let it wash over them. The baby or small DC can't care less whether eggs are free range or not- that is something you can explain at a later date when looking at hens.
I went to NCT groups- I can't remember anyone using 'baby talk' - it was a chance to chat to adults and the babies/ toddlers were happy to play or watch others.
LaQueen "Why are parents so terrified of their children just sitting and observing for a few minutes? They're not going to implode if they are not constantly being distracted/entertained/enaged with..."
exoticfruits "I think that the difference is that you should be talking to your child - which means a normal voice and looking them in the eye and waiting for a response. It means having pauses."
I agree very much. All my mother's constant stream of loud/performance/passive-aggressive parenting did was teach me to switch off completely, for years.
Aged 36 i still have great difficulty concentrating on auditory input, and tend to be completely passive in conversations, usually because i haven't been listening
BTW I quite like organic hoummous... more so than jaffa cakes anyway
However going round the supermarket with my sister, BIL, and (ex) SIL &BIL and the 3 kids has to have been one of my life's highlights.
"Tarquin [2 years 11 mo], what's the MANDARIN word for organic? Yes! now tell Horatio [11 weeks] so he knows too. Ooh, isn't he clever! goo gaa! yes that's right Horatio, YOU'RE SPEAKING MANDARIN TO MUMMY!"... cue my sister instantly chiming in over the top with "Lysandra [4 years]! YOU know the word for organic in FRENCH, GERMAN AND JAPANESE, DON"T YOU?"
Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with teaching foreign languages to extremely young kids, since it's vastly more effective than teaching teenagers. I just find the performance parenting aspect hideously self-indulgent. It's self-indulgent no matter what values are being inflicted - a friend of exSIL/BIL/Tarquin/Horatio does it in reverse "oh, darling, WE don't know the mandarin words for ANYTHING because YOU'RE allowed to be a CHILD, aren't you? Mummy loves you whether or not you're a member of Mensa, doesn't she?"
It is a bit sad tbh.
This thread has evolved into a jokey thread about performance parenting.
It has been said over and over again that no one ever judges mums gaily engaging with their child. Equally everyone recognises that some children have issues that need constant clear speech.
To constantly twist the thread into people sneering t anyone who talks to their child is just wilfully stupid and antagonistic.
I performance parented a bit with DS1. I was a bit of an arse but no harm done. It was like a big old manifestation of PFB and I am an adult.i can laugh at myself for my foolishness.
I had to endlessly talk loudly at ds2. He had all sorts of issues that meant I had to do it. Maybe some people thought I was a twat but in the scheme if things I don't care.
Have we lost the ability to laugh gently at ourselves and each other. We are all ridiculous t times. It's not evil to either do it or notice it.
I'm so interested in what the posters say about allowing a child to learn to listen.
There are many baby gurus who would have it that babies (and foetuses) absorb everything. Hence some of the nuttier beliefs that a baby can be born 'knowing' the complete works of Mozart.
It looks like at some point, though, if the auditory stimulation is constant, some children at least simply turn off the processor for that, and look elsewhere?
Yes. It is interesting. The whole auditory processing thing is interesting.
I remember DS2 not being able to 'hear' me because there was a bus pulling into the car park.it was quite far away but it swamped him and he recoiled from that noise and went into a massive meltdown.
The fight to get him to tune language in and tune other stuff out is on going.
Sorry. Just agreeing. That reads back a bit like I am letting you find it interesting in a head patty way which is not how I meant it at all.
I was in the library last week and couldn't help noticing one of these loud parents.
She was sitting on the carpet in the children's area with two girls of about 4 and 5 reading them a book very loudly about a character who wouldn't eat anything green. Loud effects and pronunciation, as though she was on the fecking stage. At the end she closed the book and said in a booming voice to her girls:
"How odd darlings that he won't eat anything green, because there are loads and loads of lots of lovely green things to eat aren't there".
The girls just sat there.
She went on:
"Yummy broccoli, cabbage, spinach, mung beans ......"
Then one of the girls shouted "snot" .
"No sweetie that's not nice, we don't eat that"
"SNOT, SNOT ....."
Cheered up my Tuesday .
Oh you can pat my head, Pag. The cat slept on it all night snoring and what with the couple next door shagging and the wind howling, I need less noise and more patting.
Widow as I said, young children need to be exposed to normal conversation, and that also means being included in the conversation sometimes...and of course parents shoudl talk to their children...but, they need to talk normally, as much as possible. The Motherese and constant repeating and emphasising is a bit nonsensical.
Hands up who thinks that eliza is getting very suspiciously defensive and hissy
Pag I think some people are born without the ability to gently laugh at themselves...I very much suspect it's (sadly) the very same people who speak very loudly and continously at their children, all the time...
Joshing aside...I genuinely think it's to do with, I don't really know what to call it, Social Sensitivity, maybe? These people just seem to bludgeon their way through life, trailing a Humourless Void in their wake.
They're just oblivious to the 1001 tiny social indicators which would allow them to slot much more smoothly into life, and that would make others warm towards them.
Such is life.
You would all hate me I talk and do mannerisms like the cbeebies presenters.I cant help it I just find myself doing it!
The good thing about being able to laugh at yourself is that,if you are anything like me, there are literally hours of amusement. I am such an arse. I'm still quite nice with it though. A lots of my best friends are arses
On the flip side to the children of loud parents being unable to entertain themselves or think for themselves without stimulation.... both my children couldn't WAIT to get to school, probably for peace and quiet.
Pag me too. I always laugh at myself far more (because there's so much opportunity) than I ever really laugh at anyone else.
Life is too short to take yourself so bleddy seriously all the time.
exotic - i was doing it to my DH, not to my DD
The first rule of good parenting 'never take yourself too seriously'!
I can't take myself seriously with some of the things I've said to them!
Not only did I talk, I sang too.
Yes, I was THAT mother
oh me too Katie only because my dc was a howler, at everything, the second you put her down - i was a nervous wreck! if i wasn't singing at her i was throwing constant snacks at her! just so she wouldn't erupt
was a nightmare
yes that's right, 'hi, my name's drmummmsy, and i sang 'the wheels on the bus' whilst on the sodding bus '
plus i was about 20 and very insecure in my new role
singing not a problem,jiggling,regular rapport not a problem
we've all been there the jiggled who needed a song...or else
the performance parent would have song periodic table,loudly with accompanying explanation of noble gases to glassy eyed baby and onlookers
Must admit, DH (who was a sad Maths geek at grammar school, always winning the maths prize, I'm afraid...) was caught explaining the difference between a denominator/nominator (are they the right terms) to the DDs when we were in Pizza Hut last weekend.
In his defence he'd just collected DD1 from her 11+ tutor, who'd been taking her through her paces at fractions - but I gave him this look nonetheless.
pizza hut, yum
to hell with maths, yay pizza hut ESP the dips and jalapeños
Well, quite scottish ...there is a time and a place for boring maths drivel, and frankly I for one, don't want to hear it
are you getting wrong end stick?what's humphyface for
I would rather eat pizza, peruse dips than do maths
the yum was a clue that I like pizza
No, I meant the face was for my DH...at faffying about with maths, when pizza was on the table...
nothing wrong with singing the periodic table if you do it like this
indeed pop a stuffed crust in his yap if he interrupts the pizza
actually, dh and I probably look like pps a lot. we sing religious and classical music to dd all the time.
mainly because we spend all our frigging lives performing the stuff for real and it's ingrained onto our poor brains.
I fear twas me go wrong end stick, I was clearly perturbed as thought you preferred maths to pizza
I was an over-talkative parent for about 48 hours. I even gave newborn --DD a guided tour of our house as soon as I brought her home <cringe> XH thought I was mad and DD couldn't have given a shit, obviously.
But she did what babies do, cried, fed, got colic and she'd beaten it out of me by the end of the week, and is punishing me further by being twelve and un-shutupable.
I made up my own songs. "Seeee the peeeeeezzza, count the olives! One, two threeeee......."
Sad Sad Sad
Now I'm worried I don't talk to my kid enough. I never do any of that singing. I felt a prize prat when I went through some of the moves at baby group singing yesterday. I pull faces and kiss her but don't yak away about stuff in public, only at home and that's mostly to myself anyway.
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