AIBU to not expect my daughter to have to go to A&E following playdate?

(186 Posts)
WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 14:01:38

Ok will try and explain all without dripfeeding but have been made to feel i am BU so looking for opinions...

DD age 8 went to a friends house - there were to be 4 girls. Unknown to me there were also 4 older boys going. Whilst there apparently there was play fighting with wooden swords. This escalated and my DD decided she no longer want to play and went into another bedroom with one of the other girls (lets say A).

This led to the 6 other children swearing at my child and calling her names.

At this point the father of A who had turned up early went upstairs. He witnessed the boys with the wooden sword and told them to be careful. The girls would not tell him what was wrong but did not want to play with the others and were very quiet.

They then came down and asked A's dad to take them home.

When he dropped DD off he stated that he didn't think things had gone very well and that his DD was very upset. When DD got undressed her legs were bruised, bleeding and hugely swollen. My husband took her to A&E where it turns out she has a chipped kneecap.

The following day i get a sheepish phonecall from the host's mother asking if my DD was ok as the girl's all seemed "tense" with each other. I told her what had happened. She said she would look into it. I was perfectly reasonable but said i was unhappy with what had taken place.

As it turns out the phone call was prompted by A's dad calling her and complaining about the same thing....

I left it at that.

I then get an email saying that none of it ever happened and basically calling my daughter a liar. I know that what DD is telling me is true as not only does she have the injuries, the swear words she told me were used are very particular and these children have apparently used these in the past. A's dad also went upstairs several times and what he says correlates with the version i have been told.

The host's mum does not know that A's dad has spoken to me.

So after being lambasted in an email was i really being U when asked if my DD was ok to say no? Apparently her children swearing although she says now that it didn't happen is them experimenting and exploring words.

FWIW another child apparently broke their nose that evening!!!

Dannilion Fri 01-Feb-13 14:03:34

YADNBU! Your poor DD [SAD]

Dannilion Fri 01-Feb-13 14:04:05

that was obviously meant to be sad

manicbmc Fri 01-Feb-13 14:07:04

If it had just been a bit of an accident resulting from hi jinx and general kiddishness, then that'd be a bit of an over reaction.

But it's clearly more than that. How old were these boys? I'd call it assault tbh and be sending a very clear email back about involving the police.

Itsnearlysummertime Fri 01-Feb-13 14:08:17

Doesn't sound like a very good play date?! I would be furious if either of my children came home liked your DD.

Email is also a poor way of dealing with it. If something ever happened whilst children were in my care I would speak to the parents face to face.

How well do you know the parents? I would be speaking to thm immediately.

YANBU.

Too many children nd not enough supervision if you ask me.

Gigondas Fri 01-Feb-13 14:08:48

Yanbu- cracked kneecaps and broken nose on a play date? With no explanation or apology!!

Moominsarehippos Fri 01-Feb-13 14:09:44

Sounds like someone is covering their arse in case of law suit.

Woah. A chipped kneecap and a broken nose in the same evening - and the mum is defending it??? I live in fear of someone else's kid getting hurt 'on my watch' and seeing the thread title I was all ready to say 'YABU, kids get hurt, the mum must be mortified'. But she's clearly far from mortified. "^experimenting and exploring words^" - that made me snort out loud. The mum sounds ineffectual and unsuited to looking after a group of kids in her home . I suspect your DD doesn't want to go around again - if she did I wouldn't let her. YANBU

WMDinthekitchen Fri 01-Feb-13 14:10:35

The other mother is trying to wriggle out of it. Perhaps she was elsewhere in the house having some wine and just can't admit to it.

FunnysInLaJardin Fri 01-Feb-13 14:10:45

sounds awful. I would be furious about the whole thing tbh. What kind of children were they?

Sugarice Fri 01-Feb-13 14:10:53

I would be seething and the red mist would have descended upon seeing her injury!

You are, in my opinion, well within your rights to go round and give that woman hell, sod a bloody email!

Hope your dd recovers, is she mobile?

Icelollycraving Fri 01-Feb-13 14:11:00

Poor girls! Good god,I'd be going absolutely ballistic. Experimenting? I assume they are what known on mn as spirited.

YANBU!!! That is shocking behavior and especially from the hosts mum who is clearly trying to cover her arse.

I would be sending a very stern email back. How can she say this didn't happen - how the hell does she think your DD got a chipped kneecap!! That sword must have come down on her knee pretty hard for that to happen.

Yes, how old were the boys?? You shouldn't let this lie!!

Pozzled Fri 01-Feb-13 14:11:51

YADNBU! Have I got this right... Your DD was with a group of older boys playing with wooden swords, and they hit her legs hard enough to make them bleed, swell and to chip her knee cap?

Have you taken photos of her legs? What treatment does she need for her knee? Tbh I'd consider reporting to the police as assault, and I'm not one to say that lightly... Accidents do happen, but this sounds like more than that. Has she told you exactly how it occurred- was she hit more than once? Does she think it was deliberate?

momb Fri 01-Feb-13 14:12:14

If my daughter came home from a playdate bleeding and bruised and i had an xray showing her with a chipped kneecap I would be forwarding the lot via email to the defensive mother and asking her to explain this if my daughter was lying. Girls do sometimes exaggerate but some children also lie. It is VU of the other Mother to take her children's side after hearing from two independent parents that there had been a problem, but perhaps she is unaware of the seriousness and really does think it was high jinx.
YANBU but you need to back up what you have said with your evidence so that the other mother can take the necessary steps with her children/other guests.

Moominsarehippos Fri 01-Feb-13 14:12:53

So she knows that one child suffered a chipped bone and another a broken nose? I wonder what she thinks a 'bad' playdate looks like?

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 14:13:05

I did try and call the mother after she left a very carefully constructed voicemail for me as in she didn't mention that the other parent had made taken issue with the swearing but she never answered the phone so i left a message.

This was last week. My suggestion was that the boys apologise to my DD - believe they are in YR 5. However this did not go down well so just left it and said the mother could deal with it how she felt appropriate.

However then i received this email and am now absolutely fuming beyond belief...

My DD hasn't been at the school long but one of the other mothers of a girl who was also injured told me it is common knowledge that her children and herself can do wrong.

I know i now must leave it as my DD and all the girls are all still on friendly terms but am so so angry at this response.

Cornycabernet Fri 01-Feb-13 14:14:40

how old were the older boys? poor dd - must have really hurt.

Moominsarehippos Fri 01-Feb-13 14:14:58

I would email her back, offer to show photos of the injuries and ask her to explain how this could have occurred during a play date that she was supposedly supervising.

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 14:16:06

Your DD was with a group of older boys playing with wooden swords, and they hit her legs hard enough to make them bleed, swell and to chip her knee cap?

Yes this is EXACTLY what happened there were girls there too. She had said she didn't want to play that game as it was getting out of hand - apparently a shelf was knocked off the wall but they wouldn't stop. So she and girl A went into another room so they would no longer be hit.

ballstoit Fri 01-Feb-13 14:19:25

YANBU.

How big is the house FFS? If you have visiting children, friends or family, you keep within earshot at the very least. Preferably within eyesight. If the mother didn't know what was going on at all (and I'm guessing that 4 boys playing with swords make a fair amount of noise), then where the hell was she?

Snort again at 'spirited' Icelollycraving, yes those are the ones, aren't they?

There seem to be some parents whose default is 'My children can do no wrong'. If their children do wrong, then they rearrange reality in their minds so that they can still believe in the default. 'He's just a very spirited child', 'I'm concerned that the teachers see him as a scapegoat for everything' 'That mother must have made the whole thing up, because DS told me that he never...'...etc. Those parents drive me properly nuts. Sorry to say it WilyRoadRunner but I don't think you'll get through to her even if you show her the X Ray. Some people just can't compute the information that their child was in the wrong.

My poor DS has to put up with the opposite 'Yes, but was it your fault DS? Well you still shouldn't have, should you? Just because Nathan did it first, doesn't mean you should' etc etc. According to DS I am The Strictest Mother In The History Of The World Ever (TM). But I reckon it's better than me being delusional...

DumSpiroSpero Fri 01-Feb-13 14:20:40

How many of the other children present were the offspring of the other mother?

No excusing anything as obviously she had a responsibility to be keeping an eye on the situation, but if her own child/ren have said it wasn't them being OTT it makes it more complicated.

Have you spoken to A's dad since all this happened?

Pozzled Fri 01-Feb-13 14:21:38

They carried on swinging the swords after they were asked to stop, and continued to hit her- that is assault. Were both legs swollen or just the one with the hurt kneecap?

Seriously, I would not let this go. If your daughter attended a &e then the injuries have been documented- I'm sure the police would take it seriously.

ENormaSnob Fri 01-Feb-13 14:22:29

I would hit the roof tbh.

How old are the children?

Hassled Fri 01-Feb-13 14:23:00

Agree you have to wonder how bad things would have to be before the mother thought they might be getting out of control - it sounds like some sort of Lord of the Flies scenario. I think emailing back nothing but a photo of your DD's knee is the way to go.

DigWeedSow Fri 01-Feb-13 14:27:23

It makes you wonder if the mother was actually there while all of this was happening and has just gone with her DC's version of events. I agree that a strongly worded email with photos of your DD's knee might just help her understand the seriousness of the situation.

FunnysInLaJardin Fri 01-Feb-13 14:30:54

balls I don't think you need to be able to see or hear children of this age all of the time. DS1's best friend lives in a huge house with his 3 siblings and I'm sure their mother can't see/hear them all the time. The thing is though they are lovely children who would never behave like this. That I think is the key. I don't know any yr 5 children who would hurt other children so badly that bones got broken. The children the OP refers to were clearly anything but lovely

FunnysInLaJardin Fri 01-Feb-13 14:31:24

btw DS1 is 7 and his friends siblings range from 3-9

Thumbwitch Fri 01-Feb-13 14:32:46

YANBU at all!
I (yes I'm PFB and possibly completely overreacting) would consider calling the non-emergency police number and asking for advice - she's bringing up unchecked thugs, I can't see them suddenly working out of their own accord that they shouldn't do stuff like that to other children/people!

EugenesAxe Fri 01-Feb-13 14:40:07

Patently YANBU - the host mother sounds an arse.

hmm at 'exploring words' - why don't you call her up and say she's a 'neglectful, blinkered, ill-mannered witch'. Then when she complains you can give her the same excuse.

BTW I don't get the gist of that email - would you explain?

GrimmaTheNome Fri 01-Feb-13 14:41:04

>Sounds like someone is covering their arse in case of law suit.

yeah, something like that - methinks the lady doth protest too much.
And then to call your DD a liar...adding insult to injury all too literally.

GrimmaTheNome Fri 01-Feb-13 14:43:04

>I agree that a strongly worded email with photos of your DD's knee might just help her understand the seriousness of the situation.

yes, and drop in something about what A's dad said.

MolehillAlchemy Fri 01-Feb-13 14:44:11

Boys with wooden swords? That wasn't going to end well!

It's a rough-and-tumble age though isn't it? Thinking back to my childhood, if a group of my 8-year-old friends played with group of older brothers, then it would probably end up with bruises and scuffed knees. Especially if they were armed with swords.

The mother outright denying it instead of apologising is weird though. Is she a lawyer or married to one?

Kamer Fri 01-Feb-13 14:48:50

In the absence of any apology I would be tempted to phone the non emergency police number but you may not want the school gates fall out. I can't believe this woman is denying what happened when there is a chipped bone! My DS completely accidentally broke another child's nose once. I was mortified (as was DS) and had a long talk with the child's mother about how it happened (which I think was what she really wanted) as well as taking a get well card and a present over and asking how he was until recovered. Thats how most normal parents would react if their child was involved in breaking another child's bone.

tethersend Fri 01-Feb-13 14:49:19

If the other mother doesn't know what happened, then it's a mystery.

Unexplained injuries on a child require police and ss involvement.

5madthings Fri 01-Feb-13 14:51:08

Bloody hell how did she get that hurt without the realizing?! She must have screamed/cried/called out when they were hitting her.

Mine play with wooden swords but they hit the other child's swords they don't hit each other iyswim?

Serious lack of supervision.

Do you have photos of her injuries? I would email them to the parent, I font know who you could report this to as the boys are under the age if legal responsibility? But this is not OK!

IAmNotAMindReader Fri 01-Feb-13 14:51:34

I'm sorry this happened to your daughter and really don't know what to advise you.
It is assault and you certainly have enough evidence to ask the police for further guidance. Criminal responsibility is reached at the age of 10 so it is possible these older boys could be investigated by the police. I'm not saying it would lead to a prosecution but a caution or at least a stern talking to is a possibility. They may still be young enough to learn from it (as in not completely blinkered by the mothers attitude).

However I have to say I don't think aprroaching the mother any further will do any good. If they have the we can do no wrong attitude, they will turn it round on you and accuse you of lying, victimisation and harrassment. This is another reason why I think it may be useful to have a chat with the local police to see how you may be able to proceed.

StiffyByng Fri 01-Feb-13 14:52:32

If my Yr5 DS caused an injury like that, I would be furious with him. It's entirely unacceptable.

ShephardsDelight Fri 01-Feb-13 14:52:58

A chipped Kneecap? a broken nose?

Bloody Hell, what went on that is horrific, your poor DD and that other kid, hope she's okay now.
I can't believe they labelled you a liar, how did they explain the injuries then?

blondecat Fri 01-Feb-13 15:00:42

Over here it would be a stern talk and written apology. If not lawyers and police

We all have to carry insurance policies in case someone slips on a toy dropped by DD

DoctorAnge Fri 01-Feb-13 15:02:22

That is horrific

CheeseandPickledOnion Fri 01-Feb-13 15:03:34

I'm with Thumbwitch. That's awful and I'd be looking to report that somewhere.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 15:11:10

Are they all from the same school? How much older were the boys? Do you know the parents of the other children?

The host mother is clearly an idiot, but something needs to be done. I wouldn't leave it, I'd speak to either the school, the other parents or the police. Or maybe all 3.

ConferencePear Fri 01-Feb-13 15:13:05

I think that you should involve the police.
Firstly to teach your daughter that she does not have to put up with being assaulted and secondly, to teach these boys for their own sake that they simply cannot behave like this.

Timetoask Fri 01-Feb-13 15:20:39

Scared of what these boys will be like when they become teenager and adults!
If the father of A wouldn't have arrived early, what would have happened?

I would contact the police, just to give these boys the fright of their lives so that they think before they act in future.

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 16:26:42

I didn't want to contact the police, all in all my DD is fine, just a bit upset. The hospital said they could offer her crutches but that children rarely use them.

I was just surprised to receive an email that instead of apologising went down a whole different route. I haven't/ don't intend to respond to it but my child will never be going there again.

I have spoken to both A's mum and dad since. It seems they received a similar response. Odd that she says she didn't hear/see any crying when A's father went up 4/5 times to see what was happening. DD is very resilient, she said she cried but then they sought refuge in another room.

It was awkward for her as it was the two children that live there who were swearing/hurt her. I did not outright say that to the mother as I wanted to give her the chance to just apologise and give her children a stern talking to. plus we are stuck with each other now.

The email said that all the other parents put it down to horseplay and that A's father was there and didn't hear anything - which is odd as he says it was chaos and went up multiple times. However he didn't intervene as my DD and his were in a different room and were just quiet.

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 16:29:55

Oh and thank you all for confirming that I am not being PFB ... I was beginning to think that after I received that email out of the blue.

All in all I think that all the parents have been spun different stories from the mother to avoid her/ her children actually being forced to take any responsibility for what happened.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 16:30:48

bleeding, bruised, swollen legs and a chipped kneecap is not 'fine', (at least not in any dictionary I've ever looked at).

SomeKindOfDeliciousBiscuit Fri 01-Feb-13 16:34:51

Police.

Mollydoggerson Fri 01-Feb-13 16:35:54

Host mother is afraid you are going to sue her or call the cops. it is essentially an assault.

YANBU at all.

NeverBeenToMe Fri 01-Feb-13 16:37:26

Seems odd to me that A's father went up four or five times. Over what length of time? did he not mention to host mum that it was chaos up there etc. All very odd!

Hope your dd isnt too traumatised by what is essentially assault.

Thingiebob Fri 01-Feb-13 16:37:54

Yanbu. I think I would RAIN HELLFIRE after that email. Forward the pic of bruises and tell her you expect an apology from the boys or you will be taking this further. A chipped kneecap can be extremely painful.

You have been very restrained but now I think you can create! As op said further up, you don't want your daughter thinking she has to put up with assault.

atthewelles Fri 01-Feb-13 16:38:20

She sounds like an appalling mother and one who should certainly not have other children in her care. I would be spreading the word about what happened so that other parents know not to allow their children to visit that house.

OHforDUCKScake Fri 01-Feb-13 16:42:01

Im confused, it didnt say in the OP that she had a broken nose. Where did that come from?

OP YADNBU. Steer clear. Big time.

OHforDUCKScake Fri 01-Feb-13 16:43:25

Oh I appologise, it was at the very end.

piprabbit Fri 01-Feb-13 16:45:31

Give the mother a choice. Either she deals (to your satisfaction) with the totally unacceptable behaviour herself or you will raise the matter with the appropriate authorities.

Admittedly, I'm not sure what authorities those would be, possibly the police, but I do think you need to fire a very firm warning shot across this woman's bows.

In fact the best thing might be to present some sort of united front with the parents of the child with the broken nose and with child A's parents.

crunchbag Fri 01-Feb-13 16:47:40

A swollen leg and chipped kneecap isn't just horseplay, are the other parents actually aware of your daughters injury? I have had a combination of y6 boys and y3 girls playing around with sticks and things but the worst injury has been a grazed knee or a bruise somewhere.

Your are not PFB but not don't know what you should do next as it sounds like nobody wants to confront this woman.

HecateWhoopass Fri 01-Feb-13 16:48:16

good god.

I know you said you're not going to reply, but if it was me, I'd be replying saying you are obviously not aware that I have spoken with As father at length.

and letting As father know that she claims he said nothing, saw nothing, etc.

You child was beaten

Because that's what it was.

Bruised and bleeding and a chipped bone is a beating.

If someone gave me a beating of that severity, I would want them arrested, I tell you that for nothing!

IamtheZombie Fri 01-Feb-13 16:48:23

One of the other visiting children ended up with a broken nose, OHforDUCKScake.

MegaClutterSlut Fri 01-Feb-13 16:50:58

TBH I would have gone apeshit and shoved the wooden swords up the mothers arse after a response like that

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 16:52:50

OP I think you're under-reacting if anything. YABU to not take it any further.

Thingiebob Fri 01-Feb-13 16:53:42

Please take it further!

PeppermintPasty Fri 01-Feb-13 16:58:58

I can't believe your restraint!! I am fuming on your behalf! Report it to the school, tell the madwoman you want a written apology from the thugs boys and don't let it go. God she must have been in some hellish pain, your poor dd.

Kick that woman's arse. Metaphorically speaking of course..

skullcandy Fri 01-Feb-13 16:59:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

You are not BU at all. If anything you are being too reasonable. I understand you are 'new' and you are stuck with this parent for the next 3 or 4 years but her DC are little hooligans who are beating on children. Not acceptable at all.

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 17:26:19

There are so many things that I want to say to this woman but I guess it's the combination of not wanting to rock the boat anymore for my DD as she and the girls are all best buddies again, being a quiet non confrontational person and being unable to definitively prove anything angry.

piprabbit Fri 01-Feb-13 17:28:48

I'd also make the school aware of what has happened. Not because they can implement any sanctions at the moment, but because your DD has injuries which may affect her in school and she may also be affected emotionally for a while (not liking boisterous crowded situations for example). Tell the school what happened and who did it. At least they will be aware that it's not a one off if they aren't already should this awful behaviour start happening in school too.

piprabbit Fri 01-Feb-13 17:33:41

You have plenty of proof - your DDs injuries have been documented. Your 8yo DD has told you what happened. The other father saw the chaotic behaviour. You just need to find the confidence to stand up and say "This is absolutely unacceptable".

NatashaBee Fri 01-Feb-13 17:35:44

Where the actual fuck was the mother hosting the playdate whilst all this was going on? a chipped kneecap and a broken nose is outside the realms of the injuries kids get when they're being boisterous. I would call the police, and definitely talk to the school - for all you know there may be other incidents with this family already on record.

butterfingerz Fri 01-Feb-13 17:41:42

Would you let your dd play at this woman's house again though if the girls are friends? That's the problem with pretending everythings ok, it could easily happen again or worse.

I would phone the police on the non urgent number and ask their advice.

Just treat it as a chat with somebody who 'knows the rules' as it were.

Explain that 3 children require treatment after a playdate and the host mother sees nothing wrong with it.

lashingsofbingeinghere Fri 01-Feb-13 17:44:15

Tricky one now that your DD is back being best buddies with the offenders.

I would have a quiet word with her that proper friends do not hit and swear at each other. She has been badly hurt and frightened and might need to explore how she feels about what happened. The danger is her little friends put pressure on her to rewrite history and doubt her own experience.

As for the mum, words fail me.

Cross posted with NatashaBee. It would be informing the correct authorities just in case. Yes.

Greensleeves Fri 01-Feb-13 17:48:43

I would call the police if my child had sustained injuries like that. Write down everything - what has been said, what your dd said happened, the woman's reactions, everything.

Your dd is very stoical though! Either of mine would have been howling in pain and distress after an ordeal like that. Poor little sausage sad

BegoniaBampot Fri 01-Feb-13 17:53:20

OP - I can understand why you are struggling with this. You do seem to be rolling over and let this woman walk over you daughter and yourself but if you are shy and non confrontational, new and don't want to rock the boat for your daughter, then it's not so easy. Crap position to be in. I'd be so furious though, I don't know if I could let it rest without blowing a blood vessel.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 01-Feb-13 17:53:51

I would log it with the police too. More because I imagine note was taken of the injuries at the hospital and you need to cover your arse...

SminkoPinko Fri 01-Feb-13 17:54:47

Astonishing response from other mother. She should be mortified and apologetic and furious with her children and herself. So sorry that your dd had such a nasty playdate and got injured,

Just as an aside, how did she get your email address? I am very surprised at using email as a form of communication between parents of children on a playdate. Hope that isn't expected theses days!

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 17:55:35

butterfingerz no she will never be playing there again.

lashings the girl, who was swearing (only boys hitting or who had the swords) apologised to my DD for swearing even though the mother, unaware of the apology denied there was any and fortunately my DD is a very popular child so day to day in school there is no problem.

I am just astounded that this woman is acting like I am making a big deal out of what she calls "horseplay" .

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 17:57:57

Oh sminkopinko every year has a class rep who holds all contact details.

Sadly this woman is the class rep....

I don't know why she won't speak to me, when I tried to call her just kept going to voicemail.

She then replied via email.

FutTheShuckUp Fri 01-Feb-13 17:58:14

I think social services would be interested in this for definate.
This is at best a case of inadequate supervision, that amount of children just being allowed to run riot and the issue not even being addressed when bought to her attention is utterly negligent.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 17:58:59

sminko our school hands out contact details (phone and email) for all the parents in the class at the start of the year. I often arrange playdates via email (obviosuly wouldn't deal with a situation like this via email though!).

I think It'sAll makes a good point. What did they say at the hospital?

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 18:00:07

They weren't bothered outraged

MadamFolly Fri 01-Feb-13 18:00:25

I would call the police personally.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 18:02:48

I'd also be complaining about the hospital then! Not bothered about an 8-year old who has been beaten?! When did this happen?

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 18:07:28

Last week! Which is why I was surprised to get this email out of the blue. She has had all week to tackle me in person but has gone out of her way to avoid me.

Drop off times are flexible where we are (any time 8.15-8.45) so don't bump into people all the time.

My DH said it was full in A&E so maybe they were just too busy?

FutTheShuckUp Fri 01-Feb-13 18:07:57

Seriously- speak to your local childrens services. The fact this woman is the class rep and holds peoples contact details is even more worrying

FeistyLass Fri 01-Feb-13 18:13:29

Your poor daughter! shock
I think you've shown remarkable restraint. I wouldn't have been able to help myself from going round to their house and asking for an explanation. I appreciate you don't like confrontation and your daughter is friends with the girl but I don't think it is acceptable to let the other mum rewrite history. Could someone else go with you to speak to her? Either the other parents (as someone else suggested) or your oh, or a friend?
I just dread to think what might happen next if her children feel this behaviour is acceptable. It might not be your daughter next time (as presumably you won't let her attend a playdate again) but its unlikely her children will exercise retraint in future if they're allowed to break bones and have no repercussions. sad

FeistyLass Fri 01-Feb-13 18:15:55

restraint not retraint - duh!

How do you feel it would go if you and A's dad turned up on her doorstep together and asked to talk it through?

betterwhenthesunshines Fri 01-Feb-13 18:19:45

It's obviously an outrageous situation, but I think getting police involved is a bit over the top.

The mother must be a bit of a nut job. Who has 8 children over and lets them run riot without checking? Games can get quickly OTT (I imagine broken fingers in slammed doors could happen fairly easily) but her denying any problem is quite ridiculous. Maybe she is feeling guilty as hell and it's her warped and twisted way of dealing with it.

manitz Fri 01-Feb-13 18:32:16

i have read the last p and first so sorry if repeating. I don't always police every child at my house and suppose something like this could happen but my response would be to be mortified if anyone got injured like this rather than defensive - although my older kids are really responsible girls not sword wielding boys.

What do you want her to do op? Personally I would consider seeing what As dad wants also because if you make a fuss and he backs down you may get nowhere and it could get very difficult at school if she is class rep. If she isn't going to get them to apologise I would just try a little bit more and then never let my child go there again and distance myself from her. I see little point in going any further than that but be thankful you have found out about this before your kids spent too much time there.

manitz Fri 01-Feb-13 18:33:40

btw i would also be fuming

SminkoPinko Fri 01-Feb-13 18:43:24

Oh god @email contact being the norm! I shall pretend to be a luddite when daughter starts primary!

Footface Fri 01-Feb-13 18:44:22

Don't you find it a bit strange that child a's father we upstairs 4/5 times and didn't really do anything about it, something must have made him go up yet he didn't act. I think I would want more info from him aswell.

Can I ask was it just boys with spoons/swords or girls aswell

piprabbit Fri 01-Feb-13 18:54:50

Footface - where did spoons come from ?

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 18:57:33

Footface he did not intervene as by the time he went up my DD and his had separated themselves. He kept asking if they were ok but they wouldn't say what was wrong. He said they were ok playing together. He also suggested the mother check what the the others were doing but she did not bother. He said he couldn't really discipline her children in her house t tht point - as in they were then separate from our girls and he was unaware of the injury at that time. fWIW his wife did give him a bit of a berating when she found out!

It was just boys with the swords - one of the other two girls was swearing (the hosts daughter).

I guess I feel like manitz has described. That I'm not going to get through to her, I can't make her see how that behaviour is not acceptable as she is obviously going to maintain that I am overprotective. Apparently she has been spinning that line to A's parents for years and during issues that they have had in the past (which I have only just discovered) she has always refused to accept any responsibility.

I keep thinking that all I can do is just not allow my DD to go round there again.
Whilst really I am fuming.

MOSagain Fri 01-Feb-13 18:59:51

I can't see if you've said how old the boys were? Apologies if I've missed it. If they are under 10, then unfortunately the Police aren't able to do anything as they are deemed incapable of committing a crime. If they are over 10, it needs to be considered whether they knew what they were doing was wrong (surely they would realise you don't hit younger girls, or in fact anyone across the knees with wooden swords?) If over 14, they are considered to know that what they are doing is wrong.

Depending on their ages, I would be considering reporting to the police given the disgraceful response from the host mother.

LucilleBluth Fri 01-Feb-13 19:01:59

Boys or girls...... it doesn't matter, my year 6 DS wouldn't dream of behaving like the boys in the OP......the kids sound wild, it's not a boy girl thing, hitting with wooden swords until a person is bleeding is insane, the mother is strange and I would be knocking on her door right now and forcing her to acknowledge what has happened.

WileyRoadRunner Fri 01-Feb-13 19:02:43

MOS they are year 5 so not quite sure what age that is - possibly some may be 10?

manicbmc Fri 01-Feb-13 19:05:28

Age of criminal responsibility is 10.

The woman needs reminding of that or she'll be getting plenty of visits about her precious children in the future.

fuzzpig Fri 01-Feb-13 19:09:46

Fucking hell shock

I think you need to team up with A's dad here. Don't just leave it - I understand why you don't want to rock the boat, but the message that it sends to your DD - that people can hurt her deliberately, and face no consequence - is a damaging one in the long term.

Forget the swearing though - it is awful, but it does happen, and anyway you have no evidence of it really. Just focus on the injury. Lots of photos.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Fri 01-Feb-13 19:15:48

I agree with fuzzpig.

Todo somethhing about this will teach your dd an important lesson, that what happened was totmally unacceptable, that you will stand up for her.

I do understand your hesitation, though.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Fri 01-Feb-13 19:16:12

Sorry about typos

MOSagain Fri 01-Feb-13 19:16:40

On that basis OP I think you need to report to Police. It would be a different matter if parents accepted what had happened, were mortified and had read the riot act to their little bastards/kids. They haven't though and are being too blase about it all.

fuzzpig (brief hijack!) - how are you? if you are at a loose end tomorrow night I've organised a charity race night at MJS, should be a fun night x

toffeelolly Fri 01-Feb-13 19:30:49

Sound's like your dd was.in middle of a battlefeild, If it were my dd i would be reporting this to the police . what kind of mother is she to allow this in her house . some people do not deserve children !

MunchkinsMumof2 Fri 01-Feb-13 19:37:02

Sorry haven't got time to read all of this but if it was my DD, I would be getting the Police involved as she has been assaulted. Magistrates see 10 year olds in Court now. Poor DD.

HecateWhoopass Fri 01-Feb-13 19:40:20

People who say its ott to report to the police. Are you saying that if someone set about you with a piece of wood and hit you until your legs were bleeding and your kneecap bone chipped, you would not go to the police?
I am just really confused when people are like this. Something that if it was done to them, would surely be a police matter, is not one because its a child.
Why is that? Because I genuinely don't understand.

marriedinwhite Fri 01-Feb-13 19:44:32

If they are school friends I would be minded to ask for an appointment to see the headteacher and explain what happened and ask for advice. If this happened to your daughter there are likely to be other safeguarding issues in relation to this family. Sorry if that sounds tough but I think I'd let a professional know and the let the professional take the decision.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 19:51:15

'Why is that? Because I genuinely don't understand'

Hecate I agree with you, but I think when people think it isn't a police matter it's because the attacker was a child, not the victim. If an 8 year old was beaten with sticks by an adult everyone would say go to the police. It's because the attackers were children that it's put down to out of control playing/something that school or parents should deal with. Given that some of the 'attackers' will only be 9 years old, the law would agree with them.

deleted203 Fri 01-Feb-13 20:05:21

YANBU - I came onto this thread thinking it was going to be someone up in arms over some trivial thing but this is horrendous! As other posters have said, your child was deliberately assaulted and injured by other children, whilst supposedly in the care of an adult. If this had happened at school you would be kicking up hell with them. The woman's attitude is unbelievable - I would be sending her an email in reply stating that:-

'My daughter's injuries, deliberately inflicted on her whilst in your care, required a trip to A&E. We have photographs and medical evidence stating that she is not only bruised, bleeding and swollen but has also suffered a chipped kneecap . Your attitude towards this is beyond belief. I understand from another parent, who is also furious, that mine was not the only child injured. We expect an explanation of how this could have happened and an apology otherwise we will be reporting this assault to the appropriate authorities, which will include social services and the police'.

It should put the fear of God in this woman, if nothing else.

Kalisi Fri 01-Feb-13 20:11:12

I can't believe that there is even a question of not reporting this to police!
Maybe, just maybe if I had received a grovelling apology from the Mother the next day along with genuine concern for dd and a promise that the children involved had all been pulled up about it THEN I might consider dropping it. Honestly OP,in your position I would tear this Fuckwit a new one!!

crunchbag Fri 01-Feb-13 20:18:05

sowornout's email is a good idea.

HecateWhoopass Fri 01-Feb-13 20:21:50

I see. Thanks. I really couldn't understand it at all. you would do more for your child even than for yourself, not less.

Well, I have to say the age of the person doing it wouldn't make a bit of difference to me. I would report it, whether the person who beat my child until they left them bleeding and with a chipped bone was 80 or 8. or 5. I would have no control over what action the police chose to take, but I'd make damned sure they were aware of it and I'd be pushing for the authorities to be involved. Because some sort of intervention would clearly be needed. It simply isn't normal for one child to do that to another.

That 8, 9, 10 year old who does that and is excused or defended and is never taught that it is unacceptable runs the risk of becoming a 15 year old who does that, becoming a 20 year old who does that. Particularly if they have a parent who condones or excuses it. At least if the police are involved, they will see to it that it is taken seriously and not dismissed by the parent as just a jolly jape and no big deal.

BrittaPerry Fri 01-Feb-13 20:38:37

Please don't teach your daughter that the correct reaction to being beaten by a stronger person is to smooth over it by being nice and not mentioning it.

Even if you feel like you are friends with/in love with someone, if they assault you that is not ok and they need at least reporting to people stronger than them who can protect you.

I know that isn't how it seems, and I really do feel for you, but her being friends ith the family is more reason to follow it up, not less.

Sokmonsta Fri 01-Feb-13 20:38:50

I also cannot believe you are not considering reporting this, or even phoning and asking for advice. Your daughter was assaulted. By not reporting it, you are giving her a lesson she may take on board and have repeated to her throughout her life, that the behaviour she experienced has been normalised and there are no consequences to it. consider if this was an adult beating a child even though the child was begging for it to stop, or a spouse's reaction to their partner's injuries...... Yes, they are extremes. But these people had to start somewhere.....

Your daughter needs you to speak up for her. Whilst I agree that A's father may back track, you may also find as an 'outsider' the other parents who have been dragged into an unwilling conspiracy of silence/inaction will support you.

Matildaduck Fri 01-Feb-13 20:39:28

I can sort of see why you wouldn't want to call the police. What you do need to do though is make every other parent aware of what happened! Photographs may be used to reinforce the point.

She had her chance to quietly deal with it.

WorriedMummy73 Fri 01-Feb-13 20:43:25

Please, please get the police involved. This is about teaching the Mother that she needs to parent more responsibly. Case in point, there is a family at dc's school where the two older kids (both absolutely vile, nasty bullies throughout primary school) are now raising holy hell at secondary school. Mum and Grandma will not have that the kids are in the wrong, despite the numerous complaints to both schools and the police. Eventually, either the penny will drop and the adults will do their jobs properly or the kids will become violent adults. And this is what will happen with the boys who beat your daughter. You MUST report this - or it could happen to another child.

SoggySummer Fri 01-Feb-13 20:50:23

How awful.

Sometimes peoples attitudes make everything 1o X worse. If she had been genuinely horrified and upset about the incident (like any normal parent would have been) amd apologised profusely - yeah it wouldnt fix the knee cap and broken nose but everyone would be moving forward from this now.

I am not saying you would forgive and forget but there would be a better atmosphere about it and easier to move on. This will now always be the elephant in the room.

Hope your DDs knee heals quickly.

fluffypillow Fri 01-Feb-13 20:51:39

shock Call the police.

ProphetOfDoom Fri 01-Feb-13 20:58:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

beautyguru Fri 01-Feb-13 21:01:17

YADDDNBU!! I would be absolutely livid if this was my DD and even more so about the appalling way the mother has "handled" it. I would certainly be taking this further in line with most of the other posters above. How can she call herself a mother and say it was just "horseplay"???? shock Furious on your behalf angry

manitz Fri 01-Feb-13 21:04:16

Wiley, I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't react (police or other) but was rushing my response because dh came home and I'm supposed to be parenting!

I'm with married in white, I think there's more of a safeguarding issue here than a police issue. I think you may also get some legal and useful advice from the headteacher in confidence than rushing in with the police. I think part of the issue here at least is about how the other (violent) children are being treated by the mother at home. I'm not sure if failing to discipline may come under emotional abuse? certainly it is odd.

before you go down that route I would also check that mr A is happy to be involved and on your side and also work out what you actually want the outcome to be as, if you are new to school, and this mother is very involved you could find yourself isolated.

I don't think you need to worry about what messages you are giving your daughter about her self worth. i would be frank with her and explain that what happened was wrong but whatever course you decide to take you can explain why it is right in this situation. I also didn't mean to make this boy/girl, my oldest daughter is in year 5 (the same age as the boys mentioned) which is why i mentioned it and her favorite game is childminding/teaching and she is very responsible which is why I don't tend to police playdates very well.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 01-Feb-13 21:08:37

What sort of message do you think 'yes they were wrong to beat you DD, but mummy doesn't want to be unpopular in the playground so we won't mention it again, ok' sends manitz?

manitz Fri 01-Feb-13 21:15:17

To add, I also agree that it would be a good idea to send an email and I think it's very useful that she's started to communicate via email as you can then state your case clearly (and will have a record of doing so). I would start off with one which lists exactly what happened and states what medical staff told you but I would start with a very reasonable tone. Something along the lines of

'thank you for your email. Perhaps there has been some misunderstanding about what occurred last xxx. For the record when my daughter returned home there were distinct injuries on her legs which were serious enough to cause us to attend A&E. The xray taken by doctors showed amongst other things that she has a chipped kneecap. When we asked her how these occurred she told us blah blah. As she was in your care at the time and you now refute this explanation perhaps you can explain how the injuries occurred? We are obviously very concerned that she has been hurt and would like to know how, we are also concerned that you state that she has been lying as we feel there must be a reason why she said this. I have attached photos of her legs so that you can see that the injuries are quite nasty and await your reply'.

manitz Fri 01-Feb-13 21:19:46

Sorry outraged cross post. They were ten year old boys playing a game and without being there it's difficult to tell what happened. I don't ever stop my kids going anywhere so I think banning my child from someones house would give them a pretty big message. But I wasn't saying don't go to the police just that whatever op decides to do will because she has explored different routes and will have a rationale for her decision which I would then honestly explain to my child. Presumably she will know that she has done the best for her.

ProphetOfDoom Fri 01-Feb-13 21:30:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Narked Fri 01-Feb-13 21:31:22

Ten is the age of criminal responsibility.

5madthings Fri 01-Feb-13 21:40:04

If the boys are in yr 5 then they will be 9 or 10 yes old. I have 10 yr old boy and there is no way he would do this. I could almost understand ONE hit with a wooden sword when a game gets out of hand but your dd was repeatedly hit, she was beaten by a group of boys. If they are capable of this at 10 and are not disciplined and their mother sees it as 'horseplay' what kind of men are they going to grow up to be?

I can understand you are worried about reporting this and repurcissions but you must!! For your dd and do these boys realize the seriousness of their actions. This was not horseplay or exuberant behaviourthis was a violent act by some children on others.

I have five children and we often have others round and they play all manner of games and yes they can get carried away but this goes FAR beyond that IMO.

cumfy Fri 01-Feb-13 22:56:48

Have you asked DD what actually happened ?

TimothyClaypoleLover Fri 01-Feb-13 23:07:30

wiley I am horrified that this happened to your DD. I can understand that you don't like confrontation or that you feel this mother has some sort of control/power in the playground/school but your DD has been seriously assualted and you must take action for your DD's sake. I don't think that going to the police is ott but if you don't feel comfortable with that at the very least you should be responding to this mother's e-mail along the lines suggested by a couple of posters above. I would also question this mother's role at the school as a class rep if she is capable of brushing something like this under the carpet so would probably raise it at the school.

nightowlmostly Fri 01-Feb-13 23:32:00

I am not good at confrontation generally, so I understand your reluctance to stand up to this woman. I have to say though, and my DS is only 9 months old now, but I do feel that if something like this happened to him I wouldn't hesitate to go round there and ask her what the actual fuck happened! I'd be so mad. I agree with previous posters, she has had the chance to make it right, by apologising, being horrified at your dd's injuries, but she hasn't taken it. Call the police, go to the school, kick up a fuss. I can't help but get the impression that the adults here are falling into playground politics. You're scared to stick up for your dd because she is class rep, you don't want to get on the wrong side of the

nightowlmostly Fri 01-Feb-13 23:34:14

Oops posted too soon.

You don't want to get on the wrong side of the popular personalities in your new school!

I don't want to sound harsh, really, but that is quite pathetic. Stick up for your child, she's been assaulted at this woman's house. Report it, forget about playground bullshit.

Moominsarehippos Sat 02-Feb-13 08:40:52

Was it horse play or an actual 'whoops you got hit...crying? Haha oops hit you again!' Which is bullying.

I'm one of six kids. We used to rough and tumble but none of us ever ever got injured or injured anyone else. Out mum would kill us if we hurt anyone - intentionally or not.

Not sayig these boys will turn out to be muggers or wife-beaters but they need to be told NOW that this is seriously border-line with assault and criminal behaviour.

Has the OP tried the non emergency police number for advice? I know its a horrible situation, but someone needs to take this mum down a peg or two in a way that she will never ever allow this to happen again. And not in a way that she becomes the 'victim' of an over protective parent. I would tell the school - loudly - that the marks and chipped bone means that DD needs to be careful in PE etc. Tell them how it happened (matter of factly). I'm always paranoid that the school questions childrens' injuries anyway, so I would make sure they knew that I hadn't been beating her! If other mums hear, all the better.

Tell your family, friends, lady at the checkout... just the facts. They need to know, so that when she comes back with the 'silly woman, lying child, over reaction, something about nothing, etc' then people will think 'chipped bone, broken nose - nothing??? Stuid woman' and hopefully say it to her face.

Stick up for your girl and yourself. Show her that the big gobs and loudest voice doesn't need to win every time.

MunchkinsMumof2 Sat 02-Feb-13 09:16:45

I don't understand how you can be so passive about this assault Wiley You are not giving your daughter a positive message about sticking up for loved ones. Look beyond your own issues with confrontation and report these thuggy boys.

DumSpiroSpero Sat 02-Feb-13 09:29:58

I've been thinking about this since first reading it, particularly since I am also a fairly non-confrontational person, but I don't think I could let something like this drop.

I'd definitely email the woman back with photos and of your daughter's injuries, questioning how exactly she could accuse her of lying when they are clearly apparent. If they visible injuries were bad enough for your DH to take her to A & E there is really no room for the woman to try and pass them off as an accident even without taking into account the chipped bone. I would probably be inclined to point out to her that she should be taking it more seriously for her own sake, as another parent may be more inclined to involve the police, social services or a personal injury lawyer.

I would ask the hospital/GP for a written documentation of her injuries and take that and copies of the email into the school to see the Headteacher. For a start, this covers your back should the school think something is amiss involving you. Hopefully this will also raise questions about the other parents suitability to be taking any kind of official role in school life. I would also suggest that a whole school assembly about 'knowing when to stop' would be in order.

Footface Sat 02-Feb-13 09:44:00

Thanks for clarification, I was just curious that A's dad was present at the house, and didn't take appropriate action, and now realises he could have done more. But it sounds like he didn't really know what was going on.

What sort of outcome do you want for you dd are you happy with an apology still or do you want to take it further.

I think you should contact her again, with pictures of her knee and see what her reaction is. you poor dd must have been in a lot of pain, and I would question the mums ability to care for children if two children managed to be do badly injured in one play date.

Cherriesarelovely Sat 02-Feb-13 09:44:30

My god, this is horrible! Of course YANBU! You have to take this further. I don't care what the other mum says your daughter was badly injured by these children an there need to be consequences.

Footface Sat 02-Feb-13 09:46:32

I also think you should add in your email that the hospital were very concerned how such an incident had occurred and would have to consider contacting social services.

That might wake her up a bit!

Cherriesarelovely Sat 02-Feb-13 09:51:45

FWIW I absolutely loathe confrontation too but recently had to overcome that to stand up for my Dd. It WAS excruciating and resulted in the former friend never speaking to me again and other people taking sides BUT I do not regret doing it for at all.

Cherriesarelovely Sat 02-Feb-13 09:56:27

Just to add myself and my Dd were also called liars and it was very hard but manyother people reached out to support us and verify what we had said. You have evidence, you are far from overreacting.

Moominsarehippos Sat 02-Feb-13 10:53:02

Just re-read the original post. So there was also swearing, name calling and absolutely no apology/concern by the mum.

I would also speak to the other child's mum and dad to see what she has told them.

I would worry - a lot. Kids need to learn that no is no, and bullying/lying/verbal bullying is not on at all. Boys can act like a pack (girls too). What if they decided it would be fun to try an ink and thing-that-you-use-to-draw-circles-with pointy thing tattoo (as some demented kids did when I was at school)? Or peek at the girls knickers? Climb out onto the roof?

DS has come home with a huge bruise on his head (he whacked it on a funfair rude, trying to jump up) his friend's dad almost ran to the door when I arrived, apologised profusely, told me how it happened, that he was upset but was ok after a hug and a lolly, and what cream they'd put on it. Then a hi-5 to the boy about being brave etc. He also had a wobbly tooth knocked out when he was wrestling another boy and the older boy/his parents were mortified (especially since DS hadn't told them it was very wobbly).

Normal people care. Even if a child is hurt messing around or doing something they shouldn't have been doing, as a parent you would care. That is human nature. There is something very odd about someone who is that defensive and protective of her own above all others.

They will grow up to be right bullying, self-rightous arses (and hopefully put her in a nasty retirement home as she has not taught them compassion or consideration).

mrsbunnylove Sat 02-Feb-13 11:03:28

make sure she has a phone and can phone home for help. or keep her where you can see her, which is the best way.
if they are over ten, it might be worth talking to the police.

DrinkFeckArseGirls Sat 02-Feb-13 11:03:57

I'm shocked you are not taking it further. Obvipusly you don't think what happen ed was serious enough.

Moominsarehippos Sat 02-Feb-13 11:15:38

I think there's an important lesson for all:

Bullying gets punished.

Your kids' shit does not smell of roses, and covering for them also gets punished. Kids will lie when they have done something bad (and they obviously knew it). You can't always take the word of children and have to conduct your own investigation into events sometimes to get to the truth.

Bullies and thugs deserve to get punished and no-one has the right to treat you in a bad way. When you say no, people have to listen.

A child entrusted to you is your responsibility. You have to give a shiny shit about what they are getting up to and keep an eye/ear out for trouble.

God, I really hope the other mum is on here somewhere...

WileyRoadRunner Sat 02-Feb-13 11:17:21

Actually drink that's not true at all. Ok rang 101 yesterday but thr police are uninterested. My DH wants to just leave it now unless the mother approaches me again. Obviously she will not be going round there again.

It is very difficult to know what to do. I am being old that the parents of the other boys are "fine" with what has happened and that the blame rests with every child that was there.

It is also hard as there are only 4 girls in the class, they are all still on friendly terms but I don't want to make my DDs life difficult when at that the moment she is happy at school. That's my reservation. She has to sit next to this woman's daughter but are they going to remain friends if I stir it all up?

Thumbwitch Sat 02-Feb-13 11:23:32

Ok, so the police have shown no interest but at least you phoned them. Does your DD know? She should know that you at least tried to do something about the way she was treated - your success or otherwise is slightly less relevant to her, than that you tried.

Who is telling you that the parents of the other boys are fine? And anyway, they were the ones hitting your DD so why wouldn't they be? They didn't get hurt!
Or are you talking about the broken nose?

I think, so long as you can let your DD know that she never has to be in that position of danger again, then her trust in you will be OK. As far as the other mum is concerned, I wouldn't be speaking to her again either unless absolutely necessary - her gall and brass neck, to say nothing of the lies, is quite incredible.

DrinkFeckArseGirls Sat 02-Feb-13 12:03:26

Sorry OP, must have missed that you called the police. This is really unacceptable, how can be there no action to take to tackle such situation?! Not sure it's a great idea for the girls to be friends anymore sad. I don't see how you could police that though.

cumfy Sat 02-Feb-13 12:23:19

You phoned the police and told them your 8yo daughter had been assaulted suffering a fractured patella .... and they didn't take it further ?

That really is very very odd.

MOSagain Sat 02-Feb-13 12:28:17

sadly if boys are under 10 there is NOTHING the police can do (ie they can't be cautioned or charged as below the age of criminal responsibility). However, if I was in the police force still I'd have gone around and had a word with the parents

bigfuckoffpie Sat 02-Feb-13 12:34:26

I'd take it up with the school - she shouldn't be using information she got from the school to use to contact you about a personal matter. She also shouldn't be a class rep. And the school need to look out for your daughter being bullied.

Can you get your daughter moved to a different class?

I'm really surprised A's dad let his kids go there again if there had been an issue in the past.

No wonder she's avoiding you, she must be frightened you will take it further. And rightly so.

BornInACrossFireHurricane Sat 02-Feb-13 12:38:29

How crap that the police aren't interested.

I agree that if you haven't already do tell your daughter that you contacted the police- she needs to know how wrong their behaviour is and that you will stand up and protect her as best you can.

cumfy Sat 02-Feb-13 12:42:51

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

WileyRoadRunner Sat 02-Feb-13 12:55:42

Thanks Cumfy that's really nice.

Cherriesarelovely Sat 02-Feb-13 13:03:52

Why would you even say that cumfy? Wiley is thinking of her Dd in everything she is doing. She is very concerned that in dealing with this the wrong way she is going to make her Dds life extremely difficult at school. Perhaps she is in a small school where it is not possible to move classes. She has called the police and they are not prepared to act. She is now considering how to handle the other parent. It is very unfair to suggest that OP is not concerned for het Dd but more for herself.

AlbertaCampion Sat 02-Feb-13 13:06:01

Sorry Wiley but I'm with cumfy. If you won't make a stand up on behalf of your bullied and beaten daughter - and she HAS been bullied, horribly, by both those children and that nasty idiot mother - then who will?

DumSpiroSpero Sat 02-Feb-13 13:06:25

I can see where you are coming from re your daughter's friendships, but in all honesty, how do you expect her to continue to be friends with this girl under the circumstances?

You can't send your daughter to her house again, her mother is unlikely to encourage the friendship after what has happened.

At least having a quiet word with someone at school they are aware of the situation and if anything kicks off at school (which it might well do at some point) they will be on alert for it.

In this situation I would also ask if my daughter could be moved into another class, either next school year or when a suitable opportunity comes up that doesn't make it look too obvious.

I really wouldn't want her to be friends with these kids at all tbh.

WileyRoadRunner Sat 02-Feb-13 13:09:45

cherries is correct. It is a very small school. No opportunity to move classes and my DD is very happy here.

DD has surprisingly not been bothered by this, she knows I am livid and have spoken to the mother and another one of the parents. She made the hosts daughter apologise for swearing at her.

But will she still be happy and thank me if rather than have nothing more to do with this other woman and freely say why that is I blow it all up.

It is most likely that she will suffer if I do this.

WileyRoadRunner Sat 02-Feb-13 13:11:00

But the daughter was swearing but did not hit my DD - it was her brother and his friends.

There is no opportunity to move classes and there are only 4 girls in the class who play together.

i would reply to her email with photos of your daughter's legs and say nothing else.

this is unbelievably shocking.

i have a mind to go round and slap her. pm me her address please.

WileyRoadRunner Sat 02-Feb-13 13:12:51

And the girl apologised for swearing at my DD despite her mother denying the swearing etc. she does not know her DD has apologised.

To all intents and purposes the mother doesn't seem to bother with the girl very much. I think she is concerned about her boy.

Cosmosim Sat 02-Feb-13 13:16:52

Why do posters turn on the OP and post insults when the OP takes advice on board, thinks about it and acts in a way she feels is appropriate. No wonder some don't come back to update on a situation hmm

FloatyBeatie Sat 02-Feb-13 13:27:45

My son and another boy decided to playfight with one another using sticks during a playdate at my house. My son got whacked in the eye so hard that we had to go to A&E. He was in very great distress and pain. The possibility of a fractured skull was mentioned (thankfully it wasn't fractured). The eye was swollen to horror-movie proportions.

The thing is, there was no malice or aggression from the boy that did it -- it was simply an inept and stupid piece of wild flinging about. And the responsible person was me, for not stopping the stick play.

I think in your situation, OP, I would want to find out if the incident happened due to stupid, over-excited wildness during consensual shared playfighting, or as a result of an aggressive attack. I can entirely understand the former being the cause of the injury, and then my main concern would be, why weren't the adults setting ground rules properly and supervising adequately? I would be angry at the refusal to ensure a proper apology, but I wouldn't want to paint the boy that did it as a thug or a target for police interest. I would be concerned by the swearing and ganging up, however.

manitz Sat 02-Feb-13 13:36:33

Bullying is repeated and directed at a particular individual consistently.
definition from nspcc research paper:
Bullying is a pervasive type of aggression, which often occurs in schools. As with other types
of aggression, the harm that is inflicted – whether physical, emotional or both – is intentional.
However, bullying has defining features which set it apart from other aggressive behaviours,
in that it is repeated, and that the bully or bullies have greater access to power than their
victim(s).

This doesn't seem to be bullying unless it happens regularly and op's daughter has been unfortunate to have been the one. I have seen boys of this age playing with swords and it can often be very physical. The fact that the woman didn't watch them and didn't check on four boys playing with wooden swords around younger children is negligent, the fact that she then didn't apologise and react in an appropriate manner is also an issue. It would be surprising if the police regarded it as a criminal matter.

OP it seems the girl isn't having a great time either. If your dd likes her and wants to continue to be friendly with her then can they confine their friendship to school or playdates at your house? I think you are dealing with this in a measured way fwiw. I think you need to make sure you have had your say so you and your daughter can move on and then just distance yourselves from this woman and her son. Good luck. x

FloatyBeatie Sat 02-Feb-13 13:38:29

Actually, the worrying thing is that for whatever reason your dd didn't feel that she could go at once to an adult and say that she was hurt. Usually at a playdate that would be the natural thing to do. Either some of the children pressed her to keep quiet, or your dd didn't really trust that adult to be a source of help when needed. So the injury itself wouldn't be what really set alarm bells going for me, but the context surrounding it is odd and troubling.

cumfy Sat 02-Feb-13 13:38:30

I didn't say anything in the least offensive and wonder why my post was deleted.

Perhaps if Wiley had been as effective as representing her case to the police as she was at representing to MNHQ that my post was offensive, they may well have taken the case further.

Cosmosim Sat 02-Feb-13 13:45:35

I reported you cumfy, and obviously someone agreed that suggesting the OP cared more about a car than her daughter IS a personal attack and quite vicious.

WileyRoadRunner Sat 02-Feb-13 13:46:12

Cumfy I did not report your post

FloatyBeatie Sat 02-Feb-13 13:47:26

Sorry you are getting a hard time Wiley. I think you are handling things sensibly.

cumfy Sat 02-Feb-13 13:52:13

Maybe cosmosim should talk to Wiley's local police.

Cosmosim Sat 02-Feb-13 13:57:09

You done being helpful on this thread yet, or would you like to post a few more digs til you feel better? Do direct them at me instead of the OP. I'm not in her stressful situation.

cumfy Sat 02-Feb-13 14:04:00

Cosmosim, I think everyone on this post is most concerned about Wiley's DD.

You and me included.

WileyRoadRunner Sat 02-Feb-13 14:16:48

That's simply not true cumfy and I don't know why you think that.

The police are not interested, my main objective is that my DD is happy.

Of course now I know what this woman's true colours are I do not have a civilised word to say to her. I am just unsure about whether a protracted argument with her is going to resolve anything. She will never change her mind or back down and it may impact on my DD in a day to day basis. She has been through a huge period of sadness already hence why she moved to this school in September.

She is incredibly happy at this school and this incident has not changed that. She knows that I am furious and that I have made those feelings known to the host mother. She has brushed that under the carpet but it doesn't mean I am going to be her friend or even hav anything to say to her in future. My DD will not be going to their house.

I am trying to weigh up what the next move is as my own mother would always weigh in on things when I was small and the result is that it made my own school days difficult.

No one is more concerned about her than me.

HecateWhoopass Sat 02-Feb-13 15:41:43

The police were not interested that your child had been hit with a piece of wood until her legs were bleeding and she suffered a chipped bone shock

I have to say that I find that outrageous. Regardless whether you feel it should or should not be taken further, or any of that stuff, the police should be interested when someone reports something like that!

What did they say that demonstrated they didn't care? They just said sorry, that's not something we'd look into, or what?

BegoniaBampot Sat 02-Feb-13 18:36:11

the police are often not interested. my 70 something yr old father got attacked by a young guy wielding a machete in broad daylight while walking his dog. the police were not interested even though my dad knew his address and who he was.

HecateWhoopass Sun 03-Feb-13 09:33:46

Bloody hell.

That's awful, it really is.

how can they justify not being interested in something like that?!

simplesusan Sun 03-Feb-13 10:45:31

I wouldn't let dd go to this woman's house again. However I would let the girl come to your house IF your dd asks.

YANBU at all.
Accidents do happen but this mother is defending what happened when clearly any rational person would know that it is inexcusable.

Thumbwitch Sun 03-Feb-13 11:31:10

When I suggested involving the police, it was more aimed at the mother for her, in my view, inexcusable refusal to accept responsibility in any way for what had happened to your DD, Wiley.
Yes, accidents do happen - but normally people are hugely apologetic, can't do enough to make it up to you and reassure you that it will never happen again - not pretend it never happened in the first place!
However, if this happened to two girls, it doesn't suggest an accident at all but deliberate targetting.

Anyway. The police aren't interested, there's nothing more to be done there. I think that you have done all you can do - your DD seems happy enough to let it lie now, her friend apologised, the brother and mother are clearly people to avoid and you've already decided to achieve that by not letting your DD go to her friend's house any more, so now all that you can do is hope that your DD's knee has no long-lasting after-effects from the bone chip. Did the docs give any indication of what could happen, how big the chip is etc.? Sometimes a loose bone chip, if it's shard-like, can cause soft tissue damage - hope this doesn't happen.

BegoniaBampot Sun 03-Feb-13 14:26:18

op - sound like you've handled the situation as well as you could. hope all goes well for the future.

socharlotte Sun 03-Feb-13 14:47:03

I am going to go against the grain here.
It seems as though your dd and A were willingly joining in the playfighting, until they then got hurt and withdrew to another room.
I can understand your annoyance at the playdate mum wasn't supervising the kids better.But calling it 'beating' and 'assault' and calling police is just ridiculous.It was a game your Dc was playing!

WileyRoadRunner Sun 03-Feb-13 15:59:44

I had considered that angle socharlotte and it would put my mind at rest if I could believe that is genuinely what happened .... But I just can't. My daughter just isn't in to that kind of game and surely it must be known that hitting with such force as to give that kind of injury, is not appropriate behaviour.

Also surely it moves from a game to something else when a child leaves the room and then is sworn at for refusing to take part or more likely because she threatened to tell perhaps.

Either way the main thing that has aroused my concern is the mothers complete lack of apology/concern and refusal to accept HER children behaved inappropriately.

I think I will just move on and leave things. Unfortunately I don't think I could have her DD round to play here as I would worry, given the mothers personality, that it would be fraught with difficulties plus I just can't bear to have anything to do with her

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 03-Feb-13 18:28:37

I would have to contact the mother again, i think. She will know something's up when playdates stop happening, and that will potentially affect the girls' friendship anyway.

take photos and send them to her.

even better if you took photos on the day.

MariusEarlobe Sun 03-Feb-13 18:38:35

Gosh, I felt bad enough handing my friends ds over after a play date yesterday with a small scrape on his tummy from the park! I apologised profusely (sp?)

We came back with my dd who had fell of her scooter and had battered knees and a bloody nose and her ds who has scraped his tummy (only small thanks god)

If this had happened at my house I would be mortified! Accidents happen and my friends ds is a dare devil and has various scars from hospital incidents in his own home to the point mum has said not to panic if he breaks anything with me she wont blame me shock

but this does not sound like an accident!

socharlotte Sun 03-Feb-13 18:40:17

I think all you can do is draw a line under it, and not let her go there again

Yfronts Sun 03-Feb-13 18:51:27

List in an email everything that you know happened and who witnessed it. Include broken nose and hospital visit details. Explain her children are liers and list the language they used.

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