To report someone selling illegal fags?

(200 Posts)
callmeovercautious Tue 29-Jan-13 20:37:30

Where children could buy them?

delilahlilah Tue 29-Jan-13 20:38:40

could or do?

usualsuspect Tue 29-Jan-13 20:41:29

Where? can you get me some that's awful

nocake Tue 29-Jan-13 20:41:56

Even if children can't buy them you should still report them. Illegal cigarettes can be dangerous and they stop money going into the tax coffers to pay for schools, hospitals, roads etc.

Bobbybird40 Tue 29-Jan-13 20:44:13

YABU. Mind your own business for god's sake.

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 29-Jan-13 20:45:04

How much?

report them! they could contain anything

HollyBerryBush Tue 29-Jan-13 20:46:30

Kids buy legit fags in the playground

Bobbybird40 Tue 29-Jan-13 20:46:40

Don't be ridiculous ilwdt

PrettyKitty1986 Tue 29-Jan-13 20:47:59

If they cost anything over £5.50 then report them as that's daylight robbery. When I smoked I could get 20 cigs for £4.50 and pouches of tobacco for £7...saved me a mint.

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 20:49:05

I can still get 20 for £4.50! Oh - and nobody likes a snitch OP so - beak out huh?

LadyBeagleEyes Tue 29-Jan-13 20:49:16

I would imagine they only contain tobacco Inlove, probably from abroad or nicked.

Latara Tue 29-Jan-13 20:50:18

No, cos it could be my colleague who does that on the side...

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 20:50:47

They'll be Polish or from some other Eastern Bloc country. Nothing wrong with them. And kids, if so inclined, will always get hold of fags whether old snitchy pants goes reporting or not!

Branleuse Tue 29-Jan-13 20:50:47

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Mrcrumpswife Tue 29-Jan-13 20:51:14

*CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 20:49:05
I can still get 20 for £4.50! Oh - and nobody likes a snitch OP so - beak out huh?*

Thats so funny CheCazzogrin

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 20:51:16

See branleuse that was EXACTLY what I wanted to say but didn't quite manage!

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 20:51:53

smile @ Mrcrumps - well really!

yaimee Tue 29-Jan-13 20:53:41

Yabu, live and let live!

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Tue 29-Jan-13 20:55:51

Definitely report them. They can be dangerous and the trade in illegal fags is often linked to organised crime.

MousyMouse Tue 29-Jan-13 20:56:20

report them
no one needs fags anyway disgusting smelly things

littlemisssarcastic Tue 29-Jan-13 20:56:20

Why would you even want to report this OP? Is it because you're worried children are buying them, or is it the whole principle of buying them illegally that bothers you?

MousyMouse Tue 29-Jan-13 20:58:09

can't believe that there are so many yabu's!

So why is selling illegal fags ok?

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Tue 29-Jan-13 20:59:26

Info here

ThePathanKhansWitch Tue 29-Jan-13 21:00:49

Black market economy always increases when people are unable to find legit work.

I think it would be cuntish to report tbh.

PleasePudding Tue 29-Jan-13 21:03:14

YANBU- report - I love and miss smoking but you have to pay the tax to cover the costs. If you don't want to then don't smoke.

No one really likes organised gangsters/smugglers either (personally I'd prefer a snitch)

ginmakesitallok Tue 29-Jan-13 21:04:34

sorry but smile at "they could be dangerous" - what?? They might kill you?? Better stick to the supermarket ones then.....

(if they are "fake" fags they taste like shite and people won't buy them regularly)

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Tue 29-Jan-13 21:09:22

I think it is cunt'ish to support an illigal activity that funds organised crime.

But I can see some posters think being a snitch is worse confused

The illegal cigerette trade is massive, it is not the same as someone selling a few bottle of home brew.

We are not talking about a nieghbour flogging off a couple of extra fag packets that he bought back from Tenerife. We are talking about a multimillion pound illegal activity that is carried out to generate funds for mafia type organisations.

SirBoobAlot Tue 29-Jan-13 21:09:28

On the fence with this. Yes it is illegal, but in the grand scheme of things, fags will kill you anywhere you buy them from.

Maryz Tue 29-Jan-13 21:11:01

Would you report if it was your children buying the cigarettes?

If you would, it is a bit two-faced to not report just because the children buying and smoking them are someone else's children, don't you think?

It's illegal. Unemployment and the state of the economy isn't an excuse for breaking the law. If it was, we would live in anarchy hmm

callmeovercautious Tue 29-Jan-13 21:12:02

OK - more thoughts than I expected! Firstly I am a smoker (always giving up but never manage!).

Secondly the person in question appears to be "White Britsh" in ethnic origin - Thanks CheCazzo for your lovely and racist comment hmm "They'll be Polish or from some other Eastern Bloc country. Nothing wrong with them. And kids, if so inclined, will always get hold of fags whether old snitchy pants goes reporting or not!" Yes you are right Kids will get fags if so inclined - because scumbags like this sell them to them!

Finally I am REALLY suprised by how many people have called me a C**T! MN really has changed!

ThePathanKhansWitch Tue 29-Jan-13 21:14:11

Yes, think of the children.

Are kids buying these illegal smokes?

MousyMouse Tue 29-Jan-13 21:15:10

the cigs are maybe from eastern europe. that's how I read it.
doesn't make it less illegal and disgusting...

InNeedOfBrandy Tue 29-Jan-13 21:15:37

Why do you care OP? Its fags not crack mind your own business.

BoringSchoolChoiceNickname Tue 29-Jan-13 21:22:51

She cares because it's large scale illegal tax evasion - or do we not care about that any more?

Given how keen MN normally is to dob in people who are claiming benefits and doing cash in hand work, I'm rather surprised by the mood on this thread.

PoppadomPreach Tue 29-Jan-13 21:24:12

Apparently £1bn tax is lost through illegal fags.

The illicit fags are also considerably more dangerous than "regulated" fags (anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded - these are not nice guys just being kind to you by selling you cut price fags to make your day a little better)

So there's a double whammy hit on the NHS.

If others are happy with that then fine, but personally I would "snitch".

IAmLouisWalsh Tue 29-Jan-13 21:25:47

Report it.

We regularly report the local 'fag houses' when the kids grass them up. Usually when they have been refused credit grin

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 21:26:16

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Wallison Tue 29-Jan-13 21:28:22

^ They can be dangerous

As opposed to the safe legal ones? confused

JoanByers Tue 29-Jan-13 21:30:12

what a lot of scumbag tax cheats in this thread.

PoppadomPreach Tue 29-Jan-13 21:32:04

Wallison - "considerably more dangerous". Read carefully, that does not mean the legit ones are safe FFS.

FamiliesShareGerms Tue 29-Jan-13 21:34:50

YANBU and here is a neat summary why

ThePathanKhansWitch Tue 29-Jan-13 21:35:13

Arf@Joan.grin

Bazinga12 Tue 29-Jan-13 21:39:07

Yanbu. It's illegal and it's tax evasion. Everyone's very keen to jump on benefit cheats, not sure why this would be considered any different.

Some very nasty posts here.

AfternoonsandCoffeespoons Tue 29-Jan-13 21:41:39

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zukiecat Tue 29-Jan-13 21:42:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fluffacloud Tue 29-Jan-13 21:50:40

While I don't agree with some of the comments directed at the OP I had to comment on CheCazzo's amazing zinger!
Highlight of my evening so far! <sad>

Wallison Tue 29-Jan-13 21:52:01

I was quoting from further up the thread, PoppadumPreach.

But how are they 'considerably more dangerous' anyway? I've read the rather hysterical link provided and it says nothing about increased dangers on there. They're just fags but from different countries, aren't they?

Wallison Tue 29-Jan-13 21:52:31

zukiecat, you should send that comment into Viz.

JoanByers Tue 29-Jan-13 21:53:57

is it the ice cream van?

ours sells fags and weed.

sukysue Tue 29-Jan-13 21:55:43

report them rotten tax dodgers.

Maryz Tue 29-Jan-13 21:57:51

I find it extraordinary that someone is called a cunt (and other names) for suggesting reporting someone who is doing something that is illegal both from the point of view of child safety and also tax avoidance.

Not to mention that (here anyway) the illegal fags are smuggled and sold by the same gangs as smuggle and sell cannabis and hard drugs, often also to kids hmm

Wallison, in general cigarettes from Eastern Europe for example tend to have poorer filters and they also tend to be stronger - not all, but many. And obviously if they are being sold illegally they aren't subject to the same "health and safety" regulations (however they apply those to any sort of cigarette I fail to understand hmm).

This thread is pretty shocking and very unpleasant.

JoanByers Tue 29-Jan-13 21:59:39

yep, no different from drug dealers selling weed to little kids I'm afraid.

Wallison Tue 29-Jan-13 22:00:08

Mmmm, lovely strong fags ...

Wallison Tue 29-Jan-13 22:00:43

Yes, because all drug dealers sell weed to little kids. Can hardly move for them at the school gates sometimes.

GrowSomeCress Tue 29-Jan-13 22:03:04

Yeah, report them.

I don't see why you're getting so many YABUs. Who gives a shit whether it's your business or not?! If I walked past a person bleeding to death that would also be none of my business, but I'd intervene anyway.

usualsuspect Tue 29-Jan-13 22:03:24

<goes for a fag>

JoanByers Tue 29-Jan-13 22:03:38

I don't think they care who they sell weed/fags to.

was never any problem getting either when I was at school anyway.

Lilithmoon Tue 29-Jan-13 22:04:14

What Maryz said (much better than I would have).

GrowSomeCress Tue 29-Jan-13 22:04:50

I also agree with Maryz

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 29-Jan-13 22:05:34

<ahem>

usualsuspect Tue 29-Jan-13 22:07:13

Nasty cough you have there Rebecca, is it all the fag smoke in here?

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 22:07:51

<<<<sniggers>>>> @ usual grin

GrowSomeCress Tue 29-Jan-13 22:08:21

aside from the whole selling to children and the tax evasion (which mn bleats about when it comes to businesses) things like this make money for organised crime and that brings with it things like violence, murder and sex trafficking

but of course you should report because it would make you a snitch hmm

OP it is absolutely fine to report it, please don't let people on this thread put you off

Wallison Tue 29-Jan-13 22:09:16

Must be all of those dangerous forrin cigs she's puffing away on.

I, on the other hand, only smoke Safety Fags.

NumericalMum Tue 29-Jan-13 22:11:59

Ok so just to clarify - rich people, Starbucks, Amazon etc all horrible tax dodging evil people... selling illegally imported fags that haven't been subject to tax and import duty is fine.

I do think MN is a parallel universe sometimes.

Bobbybird40 Tue 29-Jan-13 22:14:35

GSC you are being a drama queen banging on about sex trafficking etc, this is probably just some bloke whose brought a few boxes over from Eastern Europe and is flogging em down his local. Big deal. OP it's obviously your call but if you do snitch you'll probably be looking over your shoulder for weeks afterwards.

WorraLiberty Tue 29-Jan-13 22:14:42

How on God's earth was CheCazzo's comment racist in any way shape or form OP? confused

If anyone's comment could be taken that way, it was your reply to her!

Wallison Tue 29-Jan-13 22:16:22

I think the point about murder is pretty much bang on though. I could kill for a fag right now, for eg.

JoanByers Tue 29-Jan-13 22:19:39

a few boxes?

Each pack of fags is about £6 in tax, so one carton of fags is equivalent to a week's JSA.

If you don't want to pay the going rate for fags, then don't smoke.

GrowSomeCress Tue 29-Jan-13 22:19:59

Bobbybird are you kidding me? the triad made millions from doing this kind of thing in scotland

tell people being murdered and trafficked that i am being a drama queen for thinking that supporting the activities causing them harm are wrong

GrowSomeCress Tue 29-Jan-13 22:20:43

but of course if it helps people get fags a bit cheaper then it's all okay clearly

LouMae Tue 29-Jan-13 22:21:28

As thegovt keeps pushing up the price, and people have less money, the black market will just grow and grow.

Maryz Tue 29-Jan-13 22:24:19

I'm amazed how people will ignore facts (about links to organised crime for example), to justify buying cigarettes cheap.

It's very like recreational cocaine users, who have lovely well-dressed dealers deliver to their doors. They don't get involved in scummy street-dealing of drugs, they aren't responsible in any way for the chain of supply and the damage it does hmm. They are just having a line of coke (or a fag) that is just like buying a pint in the local (and of course does much less harm, because we all know how harmful alcohol is).

Really weird twisted thinking.

ilovesooty Tue 29-Jan-13 22:25:57

How on God's earth was CheCazzo's comment racist in any way shape or form OP?

I was wondering that as well.

Maryz Tue 29-Jan-13 22:26:06

LouMae, by that logic, we should all refuse to pay our car insurance because it keeps going up, we should all steal rather than pay for our food, as the price keeps going up, we should all avoid paying tax, and fiddle the system, and blame the government.

You can't just say "I don't like this law, so I won't obey it". The law is the law. Breaking it is, by definition, illegal.

drownangels Tue 29-Jan-13 22:26:22

God, if I reported everyone who does this with fags around our way I would never be off the phone!

TheSmallClanger Tue 29-Jan-13 22:28:11

Cigarette smuggling is often carried out by organised crime rings who are also involved in the illegal movement of all kinds of stuff, including dodgy alcohol and weapons. They defraud the government millions every year. They are twats and deserve everything they get.

At least those big corporations who haven't paid their tax bills actually contribute by creating employment. Smugglers create nothing except money for themselves.

I work for HM Revenue & Customs as well. This whole honour-among-thieves I'm-so-proud-I'm-I'm-not-a-snitch schoolyard bollocks has made me lie about my profession to protect my DD on more than one occasion.

GrowSomeCress Tue 29-Jan-13 22:30:07

^ I'm amazed how people will ignore facts (about links to organised crime for example), to justify buying cigarettes cheap.^

It is sad sad

Molecule Tue 29-Jan-13 22:30:40

It is organised crime and should be reported. This is generally not someone filling his van up on a day trip to Calais.

A very mild looking father at dc's extremely middle class school was found guilty of importing £3 million worth of cigarettes, so it is a massive business. I know of a driver working for Italians who had large farming interests, he was expected to take cattle to Italy and return with cigarettes, hidden in false floors of the waggon. He got caught in France, and was, of course, abandoned by his employers. The people behind this trade are ruthless and will no doubt be into many other illegal activities.

callme, as a responsible citizen you really should report this (and ignore those accusing you of being a snitch).

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 22:31:25

Of course my post wasn't racist. I did point that out in a subsequent post which got zapped because I told the OP.……oh well perhaps I'll not repeat that bit grin
Anyway I'm off to bed. Might take my carton of Polish fags with megrin

LayMizzRarb Tue 29-Jan-13 22:31:49

I'm astonished that so many people condone people evading tax and think it's ok to flame the OP.
By buying the bootleg goods you are are complicit in the evasion. Is it ok to skip paying for prescriptions as well?
It may be a relatively small amount of tax you're avoiding, £10 a week or so , but multiply that by years and by thousands of people around the country.
I wonder if it cross your mind in 30 years time when you look at your dwindling pension.
That may sound dramatic, but you are a small piece of the bigger picture.

And whilst no cigarettes are safe, please be very wary of people selling bootleg booze as well, normally the same gangs and organisations.Trading Standards have closed many factories producing replica famous brands that contain poison and unsafe chemicals including ethanol. These cause brain damage and liver failure. £5 a bottle vodka appeals to young kids, just hope it's not your children being tempted.

WorraLiberty Tue 29-Jan-13 22:34:46

People are talking about organised crime and yet the OP has hinted at no such thing.

Like I believe CheCazzo was saying the cigarettes will probably be from an Eastern Bloc country, because they're the cheapest.

My DH works in a large car factory and could buy fags, tobacco and booze on the cheap any time.

But from people who regularly travel to those countries to stock up.

nonameslefttouse Tue 29-Jan-13 22:35:47

I always wonder how they put a figure on the black market how do the experts know its costing £1 billion in unpaid tax surely if they know how much isn't being collected they know how many are coming in if they know this then they know where from and how therefore if they can pin point so much they know by whom! Or as I suspect its another wild guess at a figure!

I can't believe you can get them for 4.50! -where from and are they like dried manure-

WorraLiberty Tue 29-Jan-13 22:36:17

CheCazzo now you're being racist and homophobic shock grin

Bobbybird40 Tue 29-Jan-13 22:36:20

Molecule, the last line of your post is very, very, very pompous.

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Tue 29-Jan-13 22:39:07

It's organised crime FFS!

Look what extras you can get in illegal cigarettes. Still, as long as they are cheap confused

whateveritakes Tue 29-Jan-13 22:39:20

Countries where "snitching" is encouraged aren't the sort of places I'd want to live.
Maybe it is illegal but that's up to to the authorities to sort out. Cars drive on motorways at 80 not 70 and I was drinking in pub's at 17 not 18. One of those they have sorted out through stricter enforcement and one they haven't really. It's up to them not you.

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 22:40:24

Precisely worra. Nothing organised crime about the guy here - his employees are Polish and bring a few back when they visit home. I can't be doing with all the tax evasion moralising. Come back to me when the government runs a clean ship and stops wasting untold billions on shit. Oh - and putting aside the rights and wrongs - if smokers and drinkers (both legal last time I looked) weren't tax to buggery and back this situation wouldn't arise.

TheSmallClanger Tue 29-Jan-13 22:40:49

Worra, I'm not sure exactly how the averages are calculated, but I work in this sector and can tell you categorically, from first-hand evidence, that a large proportion of smuggled cigarettes do not come in through people abusing their entitlement a little bit. We're talking people coming through the channels with three suitcases full of the things, which they then deliver to their boss down the road, if the sniffer dogs/x-rays/agents don't pick them up.

Even if you don't care about lost tax revenue, these thieving twats are one of the biggest reasons that air travel is the total arse-ache that it is these days.

maddening Tue 29-Jan-13 22:42:14

Foreign fags I'd not report - although morally dubious and filling criminal pockets rather than the tax for our country.

But fake fags can be dangerous with dangerous levels of chemicals and poisons ( as if cigs aren't bad enough in the first place )

I would definitely snitch if I knew they were targeting children fake or foreign (illegal cigs not children)

LouMae Tue 29-Jan-13 22:44:58

Maryz, I'm not justifying it, simply explaining it. The cost of fags has proportionally risen far far more in recent years than food etc. You can't price people out of buying fags if there's an alternative, just like making drugs illegal doesn't stop people taking them. I don't smoke or take drugs, just making some relevant points.

WorraLiberty Tue 29-Jan-13 22:47:41

TheSmallClanger I was talking about the OP

Staying unusually on topic here grin

She's only made 2 posts...none of which mention organised crime.

The person selling cheap fags could be one of the 1000's that CheCazzo and I are talking about.

WorraLiberty Tue 29-Jan-13 22:49:39

And air travel is the total arse-ache that it is these days dure to terrorism too.

So I'm not going to complain about that aspect of it.

TheSmallClanger Tue 29-Jan-13 22:51:36

They're still thieving twats. No sympathy from me.

If I was found to have not reported someone doing this, I would lose my job.

FamiliesShareGerms Tue 29-Jan-13 22:51:54

Bobbybird so if the OP does report this illegal activity "she'll probably be looking over her shoulder for weeks"? But I thought these were the nice friendly, just-brought-a-few-extra-packs-back-from-holiday illegal fag sellers? Not those other nasty organised criminals... Jeez

CheCazzo Tue 29-Jan-13 22:52:16

Anyway - if the fags I get are not fakes, which they are not, and if they are legally purchased in the European country of origin, which they are and therefore the local European tax is paid on them then wtf actually is the problem? If we were not in Europe or if they were coming from a non RU country then you might have an argument.

FamiliesShareGerms Tue 29-Jan-13 22:54:43

The illegal fag trade is linked to funding terrorist activity, Worra

TheSmallClanger Tue 29-Jan-13 22:55:18

The rules are that any fags you bring back must be for personal use. The relevant officers know how much someone is likely to be able to smoke themselves (cos quite a lot of them smoke themselves if the truth be told). You can give foreign fags away, but you can't sell them.

FamiliesShareGerms Tue 29-Jan-13 23:01:19

Because, Che, the relevant duty or excise has not been paid in the UK on the imported cigarettes. And presumably no income tax paid on the profit made from selling the cigarettes. So it's a loss to the Government purse, which means we all have to pay a bit more elsewhere (higher VAT, for example) or spend less (closing some hospitals, for example)

OP, there's a simple link here on contacting HMRC

HoHoHoNoYouDont Tue 29-Jan-13 23:07:03

How could you be sure they're not fake?

nonameslefttouse Tue 29-Jan-13 23:07:58

I create employment why am I not exempt from paying all the other taxes too? Is this new where can I get information from is it available on the HMRC website?

JudgeJodie Tue 29-Jan-13 23:08:40

I saw a documentary once showing the fake cigarettes being made. All sorts of crap (literally) got swept up and packed into them BOAK.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Tue 29-Jan-13 23:13:14

I saw something like that once too Judge. What amazed me was how well they copied the packaging.

ClippedPhoenix Tue 29-Jan-13 23:14:44

Twit grin

ShiftyFades Tue 29-Jan-13 23:17:45

YANBU. You should report this.

Good luck OP.

WorraLiberty Tue 29-Jan-13 23:22:06

The illegal fag trade is linked to funding terrorist activity, Worra

<< Bangs head >>

Yes but at no time in her 2 posts did the OP say anything about the person selling the fags.

As I keep pointing out, they could be sold by one of the 1000s of people who go on 'booze cruises' and sell the fags cheap.

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Tue 29-Jan-13 23:28:09

Good luck to posters who are happy to buy foreign cigerettes but not fake cigarettes as I would be amazed if they could tell the difference from looking at them.

If you believe the 'guy in the pub' or your 'mate at work' is going to buy the more expensive genuine cigarettes when he visits his home country rather than buy the indistinguisable fake ones then you are a mug that's ok confused.

The illegal cigarette trade has changed and grown dramatically over the last few years. It's not a matter of a few smuggled packets of fags.

chickensarmpit Tue 29-Jan-13 23:31:48

Is it someone who's just brought them back from holiday hoping to make a few bob? You can't fart nowadays without someone moaning and phoning environmental health. Mind your own bees wax op.

baileysontherocks Tue 29-Jan-13 23:33:23

Yabu what's it hurting seriously? People sell illegal fags to earn a bit extra cash because this country is disgusting and most people are struggling to get money to put food on the table and children are starving and pensioners are living in extreme conditions confused

Where I live there is a few fag houses and its old people that sell them hardly leading to gangs. They only do it because this country screws everyone over and I know they also work full time jobs but they do this on the side because they can't afford the cost of living in the uk anymore!!

If kids are gonna buy em then they will soon realise that the fags taste awful anyways and get some from the shop, if they are going to smoke they will find a way no matter what!!!

Maryz Tue 29-Jan-13 23:35:28

Yes, but Worra, does she know? If they are selling them regularly they are unlikely to be holiday extras.

Certainly the people who tell ds1 that they are selling him an extra few they have brought back from their holidays are lying through their teeth - unless they go on holidays every week, and bring back a suitcase full every time, that is.

They are coming in to this country (Ireland) in lorry-loads, all connected to smuggling of hard drugs, all run by gangs and backed by the IRA, who are also involved in petrol laundering and people smuggling, among other lovely activities. I suspect the UK is the same, probably without the IRA but with other gang involvement. And gangs involved in cigarette smuggling don't use the profits for the good of society as a whole. They get involved in all sorts of other things.

Maryz Tue 29-Jan-13 23:37:06

Okaaaaaay, bailey confused

Do you obey any laws then? Pay income tax? Tell the truth on benefit forms? Insure your car?

Is it justifiable to break all laws, or only those to do with smuggling cigarettes?

ffs.

ShellyBoobs Tue 29-Jan-13 23:38:32

Yabu what's it hurting seriously? People sell illegal fags to earn a bit extra cash because this country is disgusting and most people are struggling to get money...

Yes, or they could do burglaries instead, or drive off without paying for fuel and sell that.

WorraLiberty Tue 29-Jan-13 23:45:27

Yes, but Worra, does she know? If they are selling them regularly they are unlikely to be holiday extras.

Again, we have no idea Mary, going on the 2 posts the OP made before not returning confused

baileysontherocks Tue 29-Jan-13 23:47:15

I am legit in everything and agree that people should pay their way but what hope have people got nowadays with the government being run the way it is.

Not many people stand a good chance in life in this country anymore because the country is run by people who know nothing of having life hard, they only think about lining their own pockets!!!

Constantly I see on mn about people trying to cope through a recession, not knowing where there next meal is coming from or about to lose their home but then there's billions of ££s being put into a new railway when the money could be used to sort out the debt this country is in or sort out the state of the nhs or help people with childcare so it would be worth them working, then there wouldn't be as much people living on benefits!!!

I could go on but my point is everyone has defend for themselves alately cause this country is fucking em sideways constantly, let somebody sell some knock off fags if its gonna help them survive through this horrible time because sure enough nobody else is going to help them are they!!!

HoHoHoNoYouDont Tue 29-Jan-13 23:51:21

That's it, I'm gonna start selling drugs tomorrow. What's wrong with making a few quid, it's the government's fault I'm broke, to hell with the consequences. hmm

ShellyBoobs Tue 29-Jan-13 23:55:21

...there's billions of ££s being put into a new railway when the money could be used to sort out the debt this country is in

confused

Which money could be used to 'sort out the debt this country is in'? It's not the money being spent on HS2 because that doesn't exist; a funding profile has yet to be established for it. There's definitely no 'cash' to pay for it.

The idea is that building HS2 would create thousands of jobs.

...or help people with childcare so it would be worth them working, then there wouldn't be as much people living on benefits!!!

We could give people money for childcare so they could do which jobs, exactly? Extra childcare funding wouldn't create more jobs.

Do you not see that tax evasion - i.e. selling dodgy fags - is depriving the country of exactly the money you're talking about spending?

JoanByers Tue 29-Jan-13 23:56:39

"People sell illegal fags to earn a bit extra cash because this country is disgusting and most people are struggling to get money to put food on the table and children are starving and pensioners are living in extreme conditions "

Lol, how the fuck does it help the starving children and hard-up pensioners when scumbag criminals are condoned in the act of selling fags to avoid paying taxes to er, feed the starving children and pensioners?

Don't you see any correlation between not paying taxes and whingeing about the government not providing services funded through, er, taxes?

baileysontherocks Tue 29-Jan-13 23:58:13

Oh and it's a few fags fgs hardly like they are selling bags of smack and you get a free needle with every purchase!!

People will smoke no matter what!! Just some people choose the cheaper option because of all the tax on the shop ones and they still need to feed their addiction!!!

Harriet35 Tue 29-Jan-13 23:59:29

They might be fake, my brother bought back some fags from Iraq that worked out at about 10p a packet. They were like sawdust!

JoanByers Wed 30-Jan-13 00:04:16

eh? cigarettes kill people.

High taxes discourage children from smoking. Illegal fags will find their way into the hands of your children.

baileysontherocks Wed 30-Jan-13 00:11:52

Depriving money from this country!!! Seriously if you think that the money is well handled in this country you are deluded!! What's with people thinking that the government care about what's best for this country!!! They care about themselves and what other countries think or them that is why they let so many people work here and steal our jobs or money just so they don't have the racist backlash!

It might create more jobs but how many will go to British citizens?
Some people who think they are skint is no fault of the governments then tell me why are you? Why are you struggling to pay bills? Is it because of the constant drop in price of bread, milk, petrol, childcare, clothing, car tax? Thought not because all these are none existent and why you ask? Because the government slam more tax on everything because they are not greedy enough already!!!

How anyone can sit and see homeless people, deprived pensioners and children and think its their own fault and their parents fault is beyond me because they can really control how much tax they have to pay on everything, in that case then lets all join in and say all these people are doing a shit job in life and its their fault!!!

JoanByers Wed 30-Jan-13 00:20:24

If you don't like the rule of law that we have in this country, fuck off to Mogadishu.

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Wed 30-Jan-13 00:21:27
baileysontherocks Wed 30-Jan-13 00:32:22

If everyone who dint like the rules off this country then there would be a minute population left!!!

Can't believe some people are so narrow minded!! I'm sure most of u send money to starving countries as well rather than thinking of the fact that charity starts at home!! God some people need to get their head out of their asses and see what's really going on!!!

It's not about liking the rules or not its about living your life to the fullest and if that means some people have to sell a few fags to do that then so be it.. If its that bad then go ahead grass em up you live with being a grass because that's going to get you far in life int it!!
Will it make you sleep a lot more better knowing that you have messed with someone's whole life over some dodgy fags that people would be desperate to buy any way cause they are like camel shit!! If it was some smack, crack or pills I'd understand but people are going to smoke no matter what and that's my point!!!

HoHoHoNoYouDont Wed 30-Jan-13 00:32:40

Ooh Baileys, you have some serious issues going on there.

baileysontherocks Wed 30-Jan-13 00:40:44

Maybe I have but I know I will be going to bed every night with a smile on my face from not interfering in people's lives and letting them be who they want to be and do what they want because I know that grassing up one person isn't going to stop this country from the state that its in already in grin

Why can't everyone just smile and wave instead of being a friggin Curtain twitcher? smile

JoanByers Wed 30-Jan-13 01:05:41

I'm not sure where letting people be who they want to be stops? Untaxed cars? Uninsured? Vandalism? Selling fags to schoolkids? Selling smack outside your house?

I need a guide here.

fuzzypicklehead Wed 30-Jan-13 04:05:20

I am this sooooooo close to bingo right now...

AlienReflux Wed 30-Jan-13 05:19:17

Yes where does that attitude stop*Bailey*??

it's just selling smack to junkies who will buy it anyway, seeking drugs is illegal but these are desperate times right? anything goes because we're all skint? have a word with yourself love.

sashh Wed 30-Jan-13 05:42:36

If it's a few hundred from the EU I wouldn't. If they are counterfeit definitely because

a) they are part of organised crime
b) they are made by slave labour
c) genuine cigarettes are bad enough but these are much, much worse and people buying them do not know how bad they are.

maddening Wed 30-Jan-13 05:56:45

So you sell cheap cigs then bailey?

maddening Wed 30-Jan-13 05:57:39

And are you a staunch dm reader?

BoringSchoolChoiceNickname Wed 30-Jan-13 07:40:34

Hear hear Joan. Bailey could do with seeing what a country which really doesn't function looks like - even as close as Greece.

Baileys the content of your posts sounds bigoted and ignorant

BoringSchoolChoiceNickname Wed 30-Jan-13 08:51:26

Excellent deletion-proofing SPB grin

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 09:03:47

Baileys - excellent post, though I suspect it will be lost on the various moral crusaders reading it.

Hang on, I am still reading MN here aren't I? It feels like I have stumbled into a forum for "lags and gentlemen smugglers", ffs.

It is illegal to sell fags that you brought back from holiday for the purposes of personal consumption. In Scotland you require a licence to sell cigs.

These are small cylindrical containers of carcinogens. They are not fluffy teddies that don't hurt anyone.

Mary's (and others) are right, this kind of abuse of the system feeds directly into organised crime and terrorism. The 'old folks' selling them may be directly connected to the same gangs (sadly one doesn't become a rosy faced grandad through the simple process of ageing).

Did you know that the cig factory in Northern Ireland cannot just drive their trucks into the republic because they get hijacked? Did you know that they ferry them to Scotland, drive to Wales and then ferry them to Back across to Ireland because it is safer?

There has been an awful lot of shit spoken on this thread, OP please do report them.

There will come a time when you need to choose between what is right and what is easy. It is our choices that define us.

MaryZ dyac

AmberLeaf Wed 30-Jan-13 09:27:50

Ive known people to sell cheap tobbaco

None of them had any links whatsoever to organised crime.

They were people who would drive a van to the continent and come back with some boxes of Drum or whatever and sell it to people they know, people down the pub etc.

Yes it is illegal in regard to tax evasion.

But organised crime? no, maybe some who are involved in a bigger scale?

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 09:33:29

I know loads who sell em - basically, go to krakow and the like for a short break and use the funds to pay their hol, nothing grand in scale just a few hundred notes. As to he tax evasion thing, people need to wake the fuck up. The top five per cent richest people in the uk pay fuck all tax because they and their friends make the rules and make them in such a way that they allow loopholes that allow legal tax avoidance schemes. Meanwhile, the rest of us should be worrying about not having paid a few quid stamp duty - which is stupidly high anyway. Fuck that.

AmberLeaf Wed 30-Jan-13 09:34:00

^So it's a loss to the Government purse, which means we all have to pay a bit more elsewhere (higher VAT, for example) or spend less (closing some hospitals, for example)

Oh yes, because if it wasn't for illegal fags [ones that the gov havent had any tax from] all the hospitals under threat would stay open.

Greenkit Wed 30-Jan-13 09:34:51

I actually can’t believe this thread; I mean if people are prepared to ‘buy stolen fags, because well people are just trying to make extra cash’ where does it end?

I mean, what’s a bit of shoplifting, because we were a bit short this week!

Or a bit of electricity abstraction, because ‘well electricity companies charge lots’

Or a buying a stolen mobile phone, or lets not report the drug den next door, ‘because people need to make some extra cash’

hmm

AmberLeaf Wed 30-Jan-13 09:36:15

Who says they are stolen?

IME they are purchased legally, its just when they come through uk borders that the law is broken as there are too many for personal use.

AmberLeaf Wed 30-Jan-13 09:38:06

Greenkit, you know that for some people that is how it is?

If you live next door to a 'drug den' whatever that is, then no you might not report them, because you have to live there!

I buy my fags for €50 for a carton of 200 (so a fiver a pack)

They're perfectly fine, they've got customs stickers, just not for the right country wink

And yes, a polish man sells them to me. He buys them legally in Poland, then snuggles them in.

I cannot muster even a scrap of guilt when my government charges me €9.25 a pack for an identical product

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 09:42:44

I pay 4.50 though there is a lot of 'competition' in my local WMC. Keeps prices down!!

Greenkit Wed 30-Jan-13 09:43:27

Well ok not stolen, but you know what I mean.

I guess I am straight down the line and try to be honest, I bring my kids up to be honest too..

Otherwise what sort of country do we live in?

AmberLeaf Wed 30-Jan-13 09:51:43

Yes I know what you mean Greenkit, but that's the thing, emotive language attached to these things is what sets people off with the frothing.

What sort of country do we live in? hmm not an honest one and Im refering purely to politicians etc.

Im not saying everyone has to be as corrupt as this government is, but lets not kid ourselves that tobbaco smugglers are bringing down an otherwise honest decent nation.

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 30-Jan-13 09:58:58

I must remember to tell my pensioner relative that he is a gangster/terrorist/both.

He will be vair amused.

Selling smuggled cigarettes does not pay into organised crime. It's normally every day people who are willing to take a bit of a risk. My relative has 'retired' now but he's not an organised criminal, he was just a middle class, elderly gentlemen with friends and relatives in Europe that he liked to visit. Smuggling fags back while he was over there paid for his subsequent trips.

The lady I get from now is a nurse whose husband travels for work. She is not Al Qaeda.

The terrorism thing is a lie fed to you by the government to get you to report your colleagues and neighbours.

If our government had not gotten so greedy with the tax on tabacco products then they wouldn't have so much of a problem. Other countries still tax them, just not quite so much.

Greenkit Wed 30-Jan-13 10:32:16

If our government had not gotten so greedy with the tax on tabacco products then they wouldn't have so much of a problem. Other countries still tax them, just not quite so much

In that case i may fill up my car this weekend and do a runner!

LayMizzRarb Wed 30-Jan-13 11:30:11

They're perfectly fine, they've got customs stickers, just not for the right country
Please don't kid yourself they are genuine. A recent documentary showed a cutoms seizure of hundreds of thousands of empty Golden Virginia tobacco pouches, cellophane wrappers, and many sheets of 'customs' stickers.

The Government raising prices is justification for breaking the law, and sticking two fingers up at the law abiders?
Your choice to smoke.....

LayMizzRarb Wed 30-Jan-13 11:50:56

My relative has 'retired' now but he's not an organised criminal, he was just a middle class, elderly gentlemen with friends and relatives in Europe that he liked to visit. Smuggling fags back while he was over there paid for his subsequent trips.

'Smuggling fags back' didn't pay for his trip. Breaking the law and evading tax did. At the expense of other people.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Wed 30-Jan-13 11:54:00

I'm all for high taxes on tobacco but would like a percentage of what the government makes on them to go the the NHS and also Cancer Care/Research.

JoanByers Wed 30-Jan-13 12:41:48

It does, though not specifically earmarked. The government certainly funds the NHS and cancer research, unlike your Polish fags, which fund fuck knows what.

I really can't believe some of these replies. OK after reading the op's posts it is hard to tell where the ciggies are coming from (whether someone selling cheap fags after coming back from holiday, or organised crime. Both illegal btw).

Also how do you know if these fags are genuine? Fake packets are nearly impossible to spot. And can contain shit, dead flies and asbestos. They can be as dangerous as buying bootleg vodka.

OP YANBU, and I am genuinely shocked at the 'I couldn't give a shit attitude'.

And I am a smoker.

LayMizz.... Trust me, I know what Marlboro red taste like and these are legit... Better yet they're European Marlboro not manky Irish ones. I used only get European ones when my dad went home and brought me back some duty free so it's a pleasant treat.

Maryz Wed 30-Jan-13 18:10:40

Shall I start a couple of aibus?

AIBU to give up work and go on benefits because the government are shit at running the country and income tax is too high?

AIBU to stop paying my car insurance because the government are shit at running the country and the insurance company has put the price up again?

AIBU to steal food from my next door neighbour because they have loads of money (he works as a tax inspector ffs, and she's an MP) and the price in Tesco is too high?

AIBU to buy a load of stolen designer clothes and sell it at my local car boot sale?

AIBU to buy imitation perfume/aftershave, put it in genuine boxes and sell it on Ebay - after all, buyer beware, they should know it isn't genuine if they are getting it chea;?

How come smokers think it's ok to break the law?

HoHoHoNoYouDont Wed 30-Jan-13 18:27:23

grin Maryz Great post!

Maryz Wed 30-Jan-13 18:28:37

Dare you to post one of them [hopeful]

[wimp emoticon]

<round of applause for Maryz>

But please don't lump all smokers together... I smoke but would never buy illegal cigarettes for all the reasons every right-minded poster above has mentioned.

I would seriously think about reporting too but would want a bit more information. Mostly to do with backlash and protecting my family.

GrowSomeCress Wed 30-Jan-13 18:31:19

maryz because they have a right to their precious cheap fags and who gives a shit who it hurts along the way clearly hmm

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:33:09

So seriously you guys, do you call the police every time you see somebody breaking the speed limit?

Maryz Wed 30-Jan-13 18:33:54

Sorry, Hearts.

I should have said "how come so many smokers on this thread think it's ok to break the law?"

I do think smokers, the ones who started years ago when it was considered pretty harmless, get a raw deal because I realise how dreadfully addictive it is. If only there was a way to stop new smokers starting [sigh]. Or a way to make the fecking tobacco companies do something about the nicotine levels, maybe? But I suppose that's a different argument altogether.

Yes, GrowSomeCress, I suspect that sums up the attitude of a few on here!

Writehand Wed 30-Jan-13 18:36:23

Wish I could buy cheap illegal fags. Some people have all the luck.

Maryz Wed 30-Jan-13 18:37:28

Bobby, I would call the police if I saw someone driving at such a speed that they were endangering other people. And if I knew for example that my next door neighbour was regularly driving drunk or uninsured I would report because those things put others in danger. And I think everyone should report blatant benefit cheats (not petty reporting of single mothers who have a man to stay, but people who are signing on under two names for example).

Countries can only remain civilised as long as people obey laws. If you don't like laws campaign to change them. And if you break them at least have the guts to admit you are doing it for selfish reasons, because you want to. Don't try to justify the unjustifiable.

JoanByers Wed 30-Jan-13 18:38:40

I have called the police about bad driving.

Twice.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Wed 30-Jan-13 18:39:10

And if you don't like the laws of the country then challenge them properly through the right channels rather than just breaking them!

Nancy66 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:40:25

illegal cigarettes available today are much more likely to come from China than eastern Europe - and will be full of absolute crap such as animal droppings and sand.

I don't know anyone near me who sells cheap cigs sad Where I used to live there used to be someone on every other street that did.

On another note I went to the garage the other week for cigs and they wanted nearly £8 for 20!

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 18:42:02

How odd. If someone talks about shoplifting, MN goes mental about how awful stealing is. Selling illegal cigarettes is fine though. Genuinely confused

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:45:34

Where do you live fanjo? They are widely available in the pubs around leeds.

I'm Leeds but closer to York. A house a few houses up from me sell weed though but that's not what I want. I might have to put a feedback later through there door asking for them to sell cigs too grin

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:49:24

Somebody will know. Working men's clubs are the best - they sell em behind the bar in the two local to me, fiver a pop.

I have a working men's behind me! Might have to nip in and get some. Co-op charge way too much and that's closest shop too me

AmberLeaf Wed 30-Jan-13 18:52:51

Im not a smoker BTW.

JoanByers Wed 30-Jan-13 18:53:30

Do they have any handguns too? Perhaps you could put the word out for those as well?

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:54:30

You're being silly now Joan.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Wed 30-Jan-13 18:58:14

Yes Joan you are being silly. Silly for asking that question. Everyone knows you can get hold of guns and knives if you know the right people. Lucky that we know Bobby isn't it. Bobby seems to have all the right connections. hmm

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:59:39

Ewhat because I go for the odd pint in my local? Jeeez

Cant believe someone would actually go out of their way to report someone for selling some cheap fag. Do you not have anything better to do ?

Maryz Wed 30-Jan-13 19:19:09

How many do you smoke a week Bobby?

Just wondering how much you defraud the government of each week? Multiply that by 52, then multiply by an indeterminate number of entitled fuckwits people who think they are above the law, and I bet you get quite a high figure.

ds1 knows someone who will sell him a sawn-off shotgun for €100. Funnily enough, it's the same person ds buys his knock-off cigarettes and his weed from hmm. Apparently he doesn't sell ammo though (because selling a gun with ammo is, apparently, a bad thing to do); another lovely friend sells that.

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 19:50:42

Probably around 9 packs of 20 Mary. So that's...probably over 1k a year. Thing is, I would stop smoking rather than pay the ridiculous tax we pay on fags over here. So the government actually loses nothing as it was never going to gain anything IYKWIM.
I'm frankly staggered by your level of ... conformity.

Maryz Wed 30-Jan-13 19:55:08

Well, then, there's your answer.

Become an upstanding honest citizen, stop avoiding tax and it will give you the impetus to give up a disgusting habit that is killing you.

Win-win, don't you think wink

I conform because I have seen the results of a whole underclass (firstly my brother and his mates, and now my son and his mates) not conforming. Society needs people to conform in order to retain any semblance of civilisation.

I wouldn't like to live in a country ruled by the type of people who think it's ok to break the laws they don't agree with. Smuggling is only the tip of the iceberg. And when dealing with teenagers, you can only have black and white. You have to lead by example - you can't ignore the rules you don't like, and not expect them to do the same. I hate the justification some people use for the behaviours they think are ok hmm.

Same applies to wider society. Which is of course why crooked politicians and police deserve harsher punishment than Joe Citizen, but that's a whole other thread too.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 30-Jan-13 20:14:33

I don't agree Maryz, children, adults, teenagers, there is no black and white.
IME grey is the way to go, you have to judge each situation by it's merits.
I'm a smoker, if I can get them cheap then result, but it's usually from a mate that comes back from Spain. I have no clue about criminal gangs.
And I've got a teenager too who I hope will question the 'rules' and the 'laws' that he considers unjust.
That is surely how democracy works?

Maryz Wed 30-Jan-13 20:26:12

Getting a mate to bring you back a few is very different from the organised smuggling and selling, but only from a volume point of view.

It is still tax avoidance, though.

I do agree that it's a real piss-take that the huge tax avoiders (big businesses and the fuckers who run them) seem to get less of a punishment. It seems the more you can "steal", the lower the punishment hmm

But here, buying smuggled cigarettes on the street is giving money to the IRA gangsters, which is never ok in my book. And for me with ds it is black and white - he was justifying the killing of the garda yesterday by saying that most gardaí are crooked, just another step on his anti-establishment views that I vehemently disagree with.

flaggybannel Wed 30-Jan-13 20:28:15

£4.50? nah, i get mine for £3.90. for twenty.
Nope, i wont say where from.
I also remember the ice cream van outside school selling fags, weed, vodka and sherry . Sherry? Strange but true.

LadyBeagleEyes Wed 30-Jan-13 20:33:00

Sorry Maryz, I know your issues with your ds.sad
I've no idea what to say.

Maryz Wed 30-Jan-13 20:37:49

That's ok smile. I'd like to think I wouldn't buy a sneaky cheap bottle of tax-free wine if my neighbour came back from France with a bootful, but I expect my standards might slip a bit if the price was right.

I can be snooty about cigs, though, because of the IRA connection and because I don't smoke [snurk]

Sherry was for medicinal purposes for the mothers, of course flaggy. The ones who pretended they didn't drink. The drinking ones went straight for the vodka.

flaggybannel Wed 30-Jan-13 20:39:49

ah, of course. Silly me. Mystery of the sherry solved!

PleasePudding Wed 30-Jan-13 22:08:04

If you are going to need help when smoking catches up with you (and it will if you live long enough - I say this not scare-mongeringly but factually and as someone who loves smoking) then you should contribute towards the cost.

Democracy is not questioning and breaking the laws, it's using democratic processes to change things you dont like if other people agree with you.

Some people selling fags are probably not terrorists or gangsters but that doesn't mean that terrorists and gangsters don't do it and it doesn't change the fact that you are ripping every else off by not paying the sodding tax.

And as for the argument that rich people don't pay taxes that is bollocks - the top 10% earners pay 25% of tax earned in this country and, if relying on private healthcare and education probably take out less but regardless of what the rich do you shouldn't buy cigarettes without paying tax anymore than you should cheat on benefits, commit insurance fraud or any other apparently 'victimless' crime. And finally if it is organised crime involvement then there are victims of the bargain fag.

Sorry I know that sounds ranting and preaching

Bobbybird40 Wed 30-Jan-13 22:26:46

Please pudding there was some fairly major recent research in holland which shows that over the course of a life time smokers cost less healthcare wise - as they die earlier and don't have the huge end of life costs that old duffers who are constantly at the docs do.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Wed 30-Jan-13 23:17:01

Another great contribution from Bobby.

thecook Wed 30-Jan-13 23:29:35

Bobby excellent

Waves to D0ing

I haven't bought legal fags in years. I live in London and three shops within a minutes walk sell them for £4.50. I want to know where that poster who gets them for £3.90 lives.

I have just found another place near work. I chose a likely looking newsagents, strolled in and said'Got any duty free cigs mate?' Out they came from under the counter.

OP you need to get out more love.

LadyBeagleEyes Thu 31-Jan-13 00:12:27

I honestly don't mind paying tax on tobacco, but £7.50 for a packet of fags, I mean come on.
Smokers are propping up the NHS, and if the government cared about it as a health issue, they'd ban them. Instead they are making a fortune out of our addiction.
I live in the middle of nowhere, I smoke rollies and I've no clue of any gangsters that will sell me them cheap.

I know there's a stall in the market that still sell 10 mayfair for £3.15/£3.20

When ever I go to town I buy a few packs

AlienReflux Fri 01-Feb-13 12:42:17

I remember an old bloke in a newsagents used to sell us single fags!! 10p each, we were about 12! Nice smile

drownangels Fri 01-Feb-13 14:02:32

I remember the 10p fags from my school days!!

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