to wonder if people ever say that stuff in rl?

(61 Posts)
threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 10:48:06

just lurked on a thread where there are a lot of bigoted posts.
made me wonder if people are so quick to say stuff that is so vile in rl.
as in racism/disablist stuff. ir is it just on the internet that they do it

cluelesscleaner Tue 29-Jan-13 11:06:18

I was thinking about this last night. I have read several threads recently where there is a distinct lack of compassion and empathy directed at people that are already vulnerable.

Sadly, I don't think this is just on mumsnet but becoming more prevalent in rl during this economic climate.

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 29-Jan-13 11:11:18

Sadly I hear disablist comments being made quite a lot. Pulling anyone up on it is just met with a lot of hostility too.

Jamillalliamilli Tue 29-Jan-13 11:15:34

I’m a LP in a wheelchair, one dd has suffered visible brain damage, one ds has ASD. I’m afraid ‘they’ say some very revolting things in RL frequently these days.

It started to go from mainly just ignorant things to intentionally nasty around five years ago, but has massively increased in frequency and become actively hate filled in the last couple of years.

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 11:16:57

I must be lucky as in rl I only get nice stuff said.
(apart from the shits up the road of course)
but the stuff I see on here, some of it is so vile

Iv'e encountered it in RL, however I do think online some people tend to write what they wouldn't say.

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 29-Jan-13 11:18:14

I find what I read on mn to be much more restrained than what I hear in RL.

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 11:18:51

that is scary

LegoAcupuncture Tue 29-Jan-13 11:20:30

People might OT say it, but I bet they think it. People like that are not worth the air they breathe. Bigoted opinions for small minded people.

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 11:22:18

As you know my boys have twice had euthanasia suggested, once in front of them, both time by relatives (by marriage but close relatives): once even in front of ds1 who understood.

I was quite friendly with school mums for ds4 as well until I mentioned his statement- then overheard myself referred to as The Leper Mum.

It's always been rough where we live as there's a sense of MC exclusivity about our school (chooses 80% of pupils but we are covered and guaranteed a place).

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 11:23:55

It is worse online though in my experience

as you will know threesocks having possibly seen that day on FB when BIL started off... when I defriended him DH saw him posting lots of stuff about ding dong the witch is dead and how I supposedly have Munchausens (I don't btw) all over his page.

Online enables to weak to be bullies when they normally would not dare

PeneloPeePitstop Tue 29-Jan-13 11:24:44

I've not heard it but then I'm deaf wink
I've been on the receiving end of physical violence and criminal damage on the basis of disability if it helps?

I'd quite enjoy it if someone openly voiced their bigotry to my face so I could hear. Cos I'd give it straight back.

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 11:26:32

see peachy the beauty of fb is that if someone posts something like that they will get a mouthful.
as they are posting as themselves as well they out themselves as a bigot.
but on here people are hidden so they gan post vile stuff, and weirdly use freedom of speech as their get out clause......

theplodder Tue 29-Jan-13 11:27:18

YABU to think that a difference of opinions makes one a bigot or "disablist"

that would also depend on the context of the difference

PeneloPeePitstop Tue 29-Jan-13 11:35:22

Saying disabled people should scrub bogs whilst knowing bugger all about the disability of the individual and how it affects them is pretty bigoted...

dottyspotty2 Tue 29-Jan-13 11:37:28

We've had it from kids as well as 'nice' family members DS now 18 was assaulted by another child at 7 because he was different ended up with his mout slashed open.

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 11:39:35

I thinking showing a

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 11:40:25

not sure what I did there
strange how you seem to think I am talking about you Plodder,,,why would I be?

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 29-Jan-13 11:52:56

Why have you put disablist in quotation marks plodder?

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 12:08:52

some people don't believe that they are disablist, perhaps she is one of them.
they hide behind excuses and pretend they are really thinking of the disabled person.

LegoAcupuncture Tue 29-Jan-13 12:53:18

Threesocks, they probably also start conversations with "Im not disabilist, but..."

HecateWhoopass Tue 29-Jan-13 13:00:32

Yeah. People do say some pretty vile and ignorant things face to face as well as online.

It's good to know what you're up against.

Better to have your Shitlist than to fool yourself that those around you are reasonable, rational people who give a shit about you and what you have to deal with.

As a family, we've got a double whammy of disabled and Not White grin

Thankfully we live in a good area and don't have it on our doorstep, but you can imagine the fun the hard of thinking can have with us. Leaving the safety of the village is not always fun.

I don't particularly enjoy having abuse yelled at me or having people sneer at my kids.

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 14:36:16

Plodder the people I am tlaking about said 'they should put your boys down to save money, country can;t afford them any more'

I will happily say what I bloody well want about that nastiness.

idiots wanting my kdis out of the school- closest one to our house when many drive past others to reach this one through choice-

they can all do one.

And then the 12 children who ganged up on ds1 and beat him so hard he had show marked bruises.

And the aprent who screamed at me so ahrd at school that I developed a phobia of going there alone.

All older ones now, sending the boys to SN schools where nobody knows where we live helps, but still awfful memories

crescentmoon Tue 29-Jan-13 14:38:14

im sorry that happens, my eyes have been opened i never realised what disabled people went through until i read that thread.

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 14:39:46

'see peachy the beauty of fb is that if someone posts something like that they will get a mouthful.
as they are posting as themselves as well they out themselves as a bigot.
but on here people are hidden so they gan post vile stuff, and weirdly use freedom of speech as their get out clause......'

True.

Funny because when I was studying for the philosophy part of me degree, we were that that freedom of speech only works if entered into with a spirit of respect.

That's just not what you get online is it?

A contact runs a political website (why yes remarkably leftie ;) ) and the amount of stuff he deletes even before the rest of us see it- NOT a debate forum btw. He makes that clear. Then that prat from UKIP going on about terminations, suspended- but what long term?

I used to be quite middle of the road politically, never Tory but not really labour either- these days I have been radicalised that I am so left it's take the lot of them a day's hiking to even find me!

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 14:40:35

me degree

I mean MY degree

LMAO, that's a classic typo if there was ever one!

Come work beside me OP, there are plenty of nasty bigoted arseholes who say this stuff as if it were truth.

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 14:41:16

Plodder whilst I've no desire to make this all about you, would you put racist or homophobic in the same quotation marks?

SolidSnake Tue 29-Jan-13 14:46:13

Peachy That is so so awful, i'm sorry sad

EasilyBored Tue 29-Jan-13 14:47:18

Can I ask a question? I feel that MN has kind of opened my eyes to the shittness that disabled people face every day and though I was always a leftie through and through, my hatred for the Tories has reached whole new levels with the cuts and slashes they are making left right and centre...

BUT - as a totally able bodied person, if I saw someone mouthing off to a person with disabilities/a carer, or being rude/aggressive etc, is it condescending for me to tell the person to piss off and try and stand up for the disabled person/their carer? I wouldn't mean to do it in a condescending way, but part of me thinks that everyone needs to challenge crap behaviour when they see it. MN jury?

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 15:03:48

Thanks solid, it was while ago but appreciated X
Easily personally I would be grateful though I guess we all vary; I panic a bit when cornered and anyone stepping in is a bonus.

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 15:13:05

Also- plodding person- and don''t worry, am off school running soon so will be gone- difference of opinion is fine but quite of ten I will have people telling me that disabled people and carers are not scared of the cuts or being adversely affected.

But I am- worry about my boys keeps me awake most nights.

So that's not an opinion to, it's my truth, and when people try and tell me the opposite of what I know to be true I REALLY hate it. That's not debate, it's just bloody rude. The cuts ARE adversely affecting my life and the lives of people I know. Bigotry is out there and vicious. And to say otherwise is bollocks. Not a difference of opinion but dismissive

flippinada Tue 29-Jan-13 15:20:20

YANBU.

Lots of people become ever so brave when confronted with a keyboard and feel free to say all sorts of horrible things. I'v long held the opinion that some people ought to have their fingers taped together before being allowed near a keyboard...

The way society is going, with people feeling free to give vent to opinions they previously would have held in check or thought twice about - it's so awful. And people who have a disability are being targeted. Just horrible.

flippinada Tue 29-Jan-13 15:22:15

Niceness, decency - both are just surface deep where a lot of people are concerned. IME.

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 15:23:32

EasilyBored IMO no it wouldn't be.
we should all defend the vulnerable.

#heardwhilstdisabled on twitter is an eye-opener.

Said to me, by lone parent adviser at jobcentre:

"they can't be THAT disabled, they aren't in wheelchairs"

"can't you just pretend to the childminder that they don't have Autism?" (when I mentioned that the local childminders didn't have space for SN children due to their extra needs)

Peachy Tue 29-Jan-13 15:34:03

Have had that too about childcare. Thing is, Cms were happy with my 2 non violent asd kids, I an hardly criticise their not wanting my violent one can I?

Even before the nursery looking at running after school was told by other parents they would if ds1 was allowed in....

Not that I blame them btw; love ds1 dearly but under no illusions. Now at stage where he can;t be alone but is too old for CMs / after school clubanyway so a whole new challenge!

A charity is starting an after school club in my city for sn kids but whilst ds1 and ds3 can go as at SN School, no way of getting ds4 there as 8 miles from the local school. Luckily DH works from hoe now because frankly there were no ways around it all. School runs are fine but four DIFFERENT school runs of up to 10 miles are not so fine.

GooseyLoosey Tue 29-Jan-13 15:43:58

About a year ago, ds was attacked by a dog. For a while, the facial injuries were quite startling because of stitches and bruises. To this day, I cannot get over how people stared, people I thought I knew, and how they thought it was alright to make comments. I would never have believed that people would do that - sneaky glances yes - but direct comments, no.

On the other hand, my dad is in a wheelchair and generally, people are nothing but helpful. Patronising often, but still helpful and kind.

dottyspotty2 Tue 29-Jan-13 15:52:24

Sadly I don't think things will ever change if anything people are worse now than when I was growing up in the 70's early 80's tell you for why lack of respect that is in our society a me me me attitude if affects you bugger the ones lower on the food chain so to speak stinks IMO.

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 16:38:00

we get a lot of staring, kids are the worse, but I am always shocked when adults think it is ok.
but have to say most people are kind and nice to dd, maybe it is her 6ft brother luring near her grin

FanFuckingTastic Tue 29-Jan-13 16:47:58

Does Munchaussens by proxy get mentioned a lot then towards parents of disabled children? I had my first experience of it a month ago on a passive aggressive status by someone I thought was my friend, I guess basically accusing me of making up my own disability and my daughter's. I cried for days afterwards because to say that I was making my daughter ill when I've been trying for so long to get help because of her behavioural issues was a bit of a kick in the teeth.

Simply because I posted a bit too often my worries about health and such I guess. Made me really question whether to use facebook as a source of any support at all, but I solved it by joining groups specific to my child's disability and keep most of my health stuff in my own group set up with other friends who have long term chronic pain conditions, who understand about invisible illness like Fibromyalgia and such.

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 16:48:59

FanFuckingTastic that is awful, so glad you found a group.

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 29-Jan-13 17:10:51

fanfucking yes DS's father accused me of munchaussen (or FII now) when I explained that DS was being assessed for ASD. He then phoned SS and reported me on this basis. Nothing came of it as the social worker phoned DS's head teacher who initially made the referral to the educational psychologist and she confirmed that I wasn't making it up and DS needed intervention as he displayed such strong ASD characteristics and needed the extra support in school.

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 29-Jan-13 17:13:27

I've since had people saying I'm making it up; DS's paternal grandparents told DS after he was dx that he didn't have an ASD and I was making it all up. My own mother also claims that I'm making it up, despite not having any contact with DS.

FanFuckingTastic Tue 29-Jan-13 17:13:42

Me too, today hasn't been a great day for me with regards to her behaviour, her teacher has called home Monday and Tuesday about her behaviour on Fri/Mon/Tue and she's been either attached to her teacher's side or getting up to no good, hit one child with a big wooden egg timer and bruised his hand, hit/kicked another child and spat in another child's face. She's ran off from adults and hidden from them when not allowed to do things because she's in trouble.

Completely blanking me when I try to talk about it. No idea what to do here except have the teacher write it out and send it all in to the Paed.

WilsonFrickett Tue 29-Jan-13 17:23:30

I think the internet has made disablism easier and there are a lot of people who will say things from behind their keyboard that they wouldn't say in RL. Doesn't mean they aren't thinking it though.

What's more depressing over the last year or so is the constant chorus of 'but Cameron is right, the country can't afford to pay DLA / can't afford to fund a TA / can't afford to pay for the basic human dignities that make our fellow citizens' lives bearable.' And that actually scares me more. There's always been cretins in the world, but it seems to be spreading to 'reasonable' people. It makes me think of that 'they came for the xyz, and then they came for me' poem on almost a daily basis.

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 29-Jan-13 17:30:38

Wilson, do you realise that in your post discussing disablism, you've used a disablist term?

What catchingmockingbirds ? "Cameron" <snigger>

as in, someone so far up their own arse that they've turned into Cameron?

btw: I know you meant "cretin" which I thought was out of common usage these days?

WilsonFrickett Tue 29-Jan-13 17:38:04

I wasn't aware, no blush but happy to be enlightened.

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 29-Jan-13 17:50:36

Haha, Cameron! grin

Like 'spastic' and 'mongo', it's still used in a derogatory and offensive fashion.

WilsonFrickett Tue 29-Jan-13 17:55:06

Apologies, I didn't know that or use it with that intent.

threesocksmorgan Tue 29-Jan-13 21:34:57

I have been horrified by some stuff I have seen on mn over the last couple of days, I still find it hard to grasp that people can be so vile.....then I realise they have been brainwashed.
they are so dense they hear cameron and his hate speech and fall for it.
the knock on affect is that then believe that disabled people should all act in a certain way, as scameron says they should.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 29-Jan-13 21:36:14

I would imagine they do. These people think there is nothing wrong with what they're saying remember.

Sad but true.

Catchingmockingbirds Tue 29-Jan-13 21:52:31

Did anyone see the panorama programme last night on employment support allowance and helping those with disabilities back into work?there was an ex staff member on who said DWP staff used the term 'LTB's' to describe those on the scheme.

LTB's apparently stands for lying thieving bastards shock

Sunnywithshowers Tue 29-Jan-13 23:16:50

YANBU at all

Peachy Thu 31-Jan-13 16:10:36

Fan- nobody else ever (dared?) say it but I get a distinct impression giving parents the impression that you think they are making it up is a way professionals like to control us.

And sometimes it's damn stupidity.

Last few weeks I have been warning school that ds4 is phobic of the wind. Monday he went in crying, I explained that it was the wind. They hmphed and said it was something else.

yesterday he came home with a label attached to his jumper that he'd cried every playtime as he seemed scared of the wind.

No really? And you just sent him out to play anyway (school is borderd by long areas of field and then hills so very bad)

Mia4 Thu 31-Jan-13 17:16:56

Online is worse for the most part, I think, especially when people feel confident they have some measure of anonymity. Then again on the brighter side that same anonymity allows others to feel they can fully open up and look for support.

I know several people who are worse online, liking stupid racist and homophobic stuff, but some who are reflected well in their posts and serve as a good warning for me. The worse was a friend's ex who liked something that said something akin to 'if you get so drunk you don't know what you are doing don't expect to meet a nice guy' to which he added at the bottom 'I don't know i think i'm a nice guy but if she's fucked enough i can drag her back to mine!' He had no idea why half his facebook told him he was a skeevey bastard.

And he was a disgusting POS, at a party he met the younger sister of one of his (then) gf's workmates and remarked lewdly about her breasts and arse. When it was pointed out she was only 14 he laughed and said 'well she's legal somewhere.'

On another note a friend fbed about how 'disgusted she was' to see a teacher out down the pub (not local to us, but 50 miles away!) and see her getting drunk and flirting. Luckily teacher had no idea she was there. Said friend then said how wrong it was and what a bad image to which it was pointed out to her that a) she wasn't in her local area, b) she was entitled to a life c) she was in a pub late at night where none of her charges would be and d) my friend 'a parent and once a nursery nurse and nanny' had been far far drunker on nights we'd been out and had snogged many a person in the local cab office and chippy after said night! She then deleted the status and said added one which said 'thanks to everyone who kicked me n my judgey pants, they are now off and i'm chilling out'.

Catchingmockingbirds Thu 31-Jan-13 17:19:29

peachy my son is the same with the wind. Have you found anything that reduces your DS's distress?

catching and peachy could it because of the noise it makes? DS2 is sound sensitive, and can hear things that I can't (buzzing lights, wind whistling through gaps in doors etc)

If so, would your lads tolerate ear muffs/protectors when out and about?

Catchingmockingbirds Fri 01-Feb-13 22:34:36

It's the feeling of the wind hitting his face that he hates who, he still gets stressed when I put a hat on him that covers his ears. He's got ear protectors so I may give it a try though to try and rule it out, thanks for the advice.

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