to think we should encourage our daughters to marry men who earn AT LEAST as much as them?

(348 Posts)
StripeyBear Sun 27-Jan-13 12:35:33

Quarter of a century ago, starting university, I would have furiously disagreed with this. Women should make their own money, and marry who they like!

Now, looking back, I'm not so sure. Nearly all my female friends, however successful in their careers prior to children, have compromised work success to raise their children. (I do have one friend who has a house husband, but that is the exception rather than the rule). Consequently, the lifestyle of my friends has been largely dictated by how much their husbands earn. So the nurse who married the mechanic is run ragged with extra shifts, juggling small kids in a tiny house with a large mortgage, indifferent schools and holidays in Haven or not at all - whilst my midwife girlfriend who married a consultant, is living in a huge detached house, with kids at private schools and just does a few shifts to keep her registration and to keep out of the way of her cleaner.

So AIBU, should we tell our daughters to marry someone who can provide the material stuff, or in another quarter of a century, will the world have moved on again, and fathers will be equal parents, and none of this will matter a stuff?

meadow2 Sun 27-Jan-13 12:37:37

I want my dds to marry who they love whether they are a binman or a doctor.

badguider Sun 27-Jan-13 12:38:22

YABU our daughters should marry good men who they love and love them back and respect them fully. Everything else can be worked out. The happiest families I know are quite low earners with pretty even childcare... some of the most miserable have a 'high flying man' as the father who works long hours and in high paying industries where even going home on time is seen as weak.

SparklyAntlersInMyDecorating Sun 27-Jan-13 12:39:02

Excellent, I had an unopened bag of popcorn.

I shall my nephew (8) he had better start getting his CV together, he'll have to man up.

TheTiger Sun 27-Jan-13 12:39:15

I would rather they married someone they love and who loves them. Material stuff isn't as important.

Tortington Sun 27-Jan-13 12:39:55

marry?!

Men?!

what is this 1959?

limon Sun 27-Jan-13 12:40:08

As long as the opposite is also your opinion then yanbu. But if not, then yabu.

I too just want my DD and DSD to be happy.

bickie Sun 27-Jan-13 12:40:11

Fingers crossed things will have moved on. I would encourage my daughters to be happy in their choices - career and partner. A rich man does not make you happy - or guarantee security.

Fairylea Sun 27-Jan-13 12:40:24

I think you are making the crucial error that everyone who has a lot of money is happy and everyone who has less is struggling.

I know a lot of poorer families who are both supportive parents so neither is run ragged. I will be encouraging my dd to marry a man she loves, who will be a supportive partner and parent and is financially aware and stable regardless of earning very little or lots.

eggsy11 Sun 27-Jan-13 12:40:45

I agree... sort of. I had a baby pre-graduating (still at uni now, graduating in June). DP found a job after graduating relavitvely easy, although it's below what he should be on salary rise as maths graduate. Now I'm applying the proportion of boys getting through to graduate schemes in my class compared to girls is insane! My lecturer described 20+ year old girls as 'ticking timebombs' to companies!

I understand your point, that men need to earn a decent wage because women won't be able to if they have children etc. But at the same time I do think thinks are changing a bit!

OhThePlacesYoullGo Sun 27-Jan-13 12:40:48

Seriously? No. I will be encouraging my daughter to get an education and do well for herself. IF she wants to marry someone be it a man or a woman, she should do so because they are kind, treat her well and she can imagine spending the rest of her life with them.

SolidSnake Sun 27-Jan-13 12:41:59

YANBU, more or nothing has always been my belief wink

DomesticCEO Sun 27-Jan-13 12:42:48

I will be encouraging my sons not to marry girls who are just marrying them for their wage packet hmm.

nailak Sun 27-Jan-13 12:43:05

I think the value and worth of a person should not be defined in monetary terms.

I will encourage my daughters to earn their own money so they are never reliant on their partner. I will also encourage them to be with a decent partner who loves and respects them and who they love and respect. Money is irrelevant to that.

PoppyWearer Sun 27-Jan-13 12:44:56

I am hopeful that some of our generation of parents and carers will have been granted flexible enough working and have partners who are able to be true partners at home and at work, so that they become the next set of senior managers and help attitudes to change for our childrens' generation.

I am fearful for our daughters (and sons and grandchildren) if this does not change.

It's sad that I feel our own generation is a write-off in this regard - I think that, unfortunately, the current economy means we are doomed, nothing meaningful will change whilst money is tight, except for the lucky few. hmm

Yama Sun 27-Jan-13 12:45:26

I won't be encouraging anything.

I'd hope she'd marry a man like dh who parents properly and has respect for all women.

YABU. I would tell my children to marry for love. Money doesn't buy happiness.

ouryve Sun 27-Jan-13 12:46:18

I disagreed with this when I started university, quarter of a century ago, and I still do.

Women, if they want to marry a man, should marry the one who cherishes them and makes them feel valued for who they are, regardless of income. This would automatically rule out lazy, entitled men. It would also rule out men who earn a lot (or any amount of money, for that matter) but want to keep the little woman in her place.

eggsy11 Sun 27-Jan-13 12:47:00

Money isn't irrelevant though. I grew up in house where my dad was on six figures and my mum a cleaner (wanted to work, didn't need to).

I now live in a tincy two bed flat with DS and DP. Our quality of life is nowhere near as good as I had it growing up. It would be a hell of a lot better if we didn't have to scrape together the rent or afford to go on a holiday! I'm greatful that I have a loving, DP who is an amazing Dad, but it would be nice if we were earning more!

Tee2072 Sun 27-Jan-13 12:47:15

The last thing I would ever ask my daughter (if I had one) to worry about when choosing a spouse is how much money that spouse made.

Are they a good, kind person? Do they treat my child well?

That's what matters.

Fakebook Sun 27-Jan-13 12:47:18

Eggsy, I am pretty sure you mentioned you had already graduated and had a good degree in another thread about old mothers. Which is it? Have you or haven't you?

OP, I'd hope for my daughter to marry a man who respects her, loves her, and works with her to make a happy home. Money and a large house and private school education would be an added bonus, and she could attain those things herself without a man through education and work.

I will be encouraging my daughters to find something they love doing and have successful careers of their own. Then I will hope that they meet a partner who loves them as they deserve to be loved.

My DH was a poor farmer when I met him. And a forriner to boot. Now he earns twice what I do. You can never tell how life will turn out. Love and respect are all that matters.

ceeveebee Sun 27-Jan-13 12:48:32

I will encourage my DD and my DS to do whatever they want - marry or stay single, man or woman, poor or rich - as long as they are happy that's all that matters surely?

Sugarbeach Sun 27-Jan-13 12:49:50

Not really thought about it until you mentioned OP...

To want dd to marry someone who loves and respects her is a given...
So YANBU

AnyFucker Sun 27-Jan-13 12:49:54

This is a schoolchild error

There are shit men in higher earning brackets as well as lower earning ones. Some of the worst examples of relationship dysfunction I have ever seen on here have been in a household where the bloke out-earned the woman and frequently used it as just another stick to beat her with.

Narked Sun 27-Jan-13 12:50:30

I'll encourage my daughters to earn their own money and if they're interested in medicine to be consultants themselves.

Well no, with attitudes like yours, the world won't change. I want my children to do what makes them happy. I'd hate to think my ds was snagged for being high earning or passed over for not. I'd hate my dd to think she has to marry a man who can provide. In fact I'd hate for her to feel she has to marry/has to marry a man.

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Sun 27-Jan-13 12:51:15

YABU - your daughters (and sons) should marry who they want to.

My DH earns less than a 1/3 of what I do. I am happy to be the breadwinner - I see his role as SAHD and part time worker as an equal contribution, he enables me to pursue my career.

tethersend Sun 27-Jan-13 12:51:26

I would rather encourage my daughters to fight for equal pay, fair maternity/paternity rights and subsidised childcare in order to ensure that nobody, male or female, is penalised for bringing up children.

But, yeah, marry a rich bloke. Or something.

SnowBusiness Sun 27-Jan-13 12:51:45

Sadly OP YANBU. I went to a great all girls school. I agree that the one who consistently earns seems to create the lifestyle. Usually, because of maternity that tends to be men. I'm fed up, for my daughters, that another sodding generation still have to face a family/ career struggle.

Tryharder Sun 27-Jan-13 12:53:03

I would rather that my daughter were also a consultant earning big money than feeling that she has no choice than to marry a rich money if she aspires to having a big house.

I know someone who married a rich man and she is a SAHM to a number of kids while her DH travels with work. She has paid help who do the childcare, cleaning, laundry etc. Someone is even paid to walk the fucking dog.

Her life consists of school runs in her 4x4 and then intense gym sessions in between to ensure she stays slim and youthful as her DH is clearly in demand by other predatory women as he's such a big earner an'all.

I don't think her life is any better than the midwife you mention in your OP married to the mechanic.

JaquelineHyde Sun 27-Jan-13 12:55:00

Yes, yes because marrying for money is always a solid start for a long lasting loving relationship!

gordyslovesheep Sun 27-Jan-13 12:59:03

well god forbid your child ever end up a single parent then - some of us have to earn our OWN money to support our kids and our lifestyles

LOVE and respect make marriages not £'s

SilentSplendidSun Sun 27-Jan-13 12:59:12

We dont HAVE to encourage our daughters, they will do that themselves. Its biology, innit. Over the millenia, women mated with men who could provide for their offspring, and men mated with women who could provide them with healthy offspring.

It was physical strength that decided a man's chances, but now when you dont have to fight cavemean-style, the size of your wallet wil do the fighting for you.

Feminism WRT salary or idealized notions of luuurve are all fine and dandy, but marraige or just finding a partner, will always have a money angle. It just may be hidden very well.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Sun 27-Jan-13 13:00:19

YABU.

Also I am really really really glad that your midwife friend has had the NHS pay for her training and now does a few shifts to keep out of the way of the cleaner

We have a midwife shortage in this country FFS angry

so how does this work in reality? Paychecks seen before the first date to ensure eligibility?

GinandJag Sun 27-Jan-13 13:01:14

When I was at school 30+ years ago ouch I remember have a Debating Society debate: this house believes we should marry for love rather than money. I remember the headmistress and all the other teachers voting for marrying money.

This is not to say marrying for money as such, but to just make sure you fall in love with someone who has earning potential.

I don't see what is disgusting about this attitude. It has been human behaviour since the dawn of time. In hunter-gatherer times, women would be attracted to men that were physically strong, for example. The behaviour also goes on in the animal kingdom.

meadow2 Sun 27-Jan-13 13:01:23

Silentsplendidsun- I am glad I dont think like you.

EvenIfYouSeeAPoppy Sun 27-Jan-13 13:02:02

My parents rejected my dh (then dp), to the point of consistently refusing to meet him, partly because he was still a student (as was I), had a working-class background and they believed he wouldn't be able to 'support' me.

We have been married twelve years, he is in a high-responsibility medical job, outearns me by a considerable margin and our two sons do not see their maternal grandparents.

I will encourage my sons to do what they are good at, makes them happy and enables them to live (not necessarily rake it in), and love who makes them happy.

YAB so U I feel quite despondent.

tiffinbaker Sun 27-Jan-13 13:05:47

YABVVVU and that kind of attitude is rather sexist as it assumes that your daughters should structure their aspirations for living in an unjust unequal and sexist society rather than trying to be part of building a society of justice and fairness.

I would hope that both my sons and my daughters should form relationships with people based on mutual love, support, shared insterests, ambitions and sense of humour and then structure their lifestyle according to their income rather than trying to form a relationship based on what income bracket they want to aspire to. I would hope that both my sons and my daughters would have enough respect for their life partner, of whatever gender, and enough interest in their offspring, to do whatever they can to share the childcare of my grandchilden (if they do come along) and that which parent earns more should not be used as a reason for one parent to barely see their children. I would hope that they would never see earning power as a cypher for the amount of respect someone is due, and that it therefore should be comepletely irrelevant which member of the couple earns more.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 13:06:08

Even, is it your choice, your DHs choice, or the grandparents choice that they do not see the grandchildren?

YABU. I earn double what my DH to be earns. We are very very happy together though. We play to our strengths, he's much better at household stuff than I am and when we have children his career will take a back seat to mine. We are very lucky to be living in a time when we can make that choice.

SilentSplendidSun Sun 27-Jan-13 13:06:57

Just facts, meadow2. I'm not saying women are all grabbing, money-minded harridans when it comes to marriage. We are not Austen heroines, after all. But a woman looking to settle down will subconsciously weigh future prospects- can we start a family, can we pay the mortgage etc? That does not mean she cant impulsively fall in love. Just that the person she falls in love with will come from a small pool of similar minded mates.

meditrina Sun 27-Jan-13 13:07:20

The ting I most want lot encourage DD to do is to think for herself.

And to think through choices before she makes them: educational, employment, domestic, marital. Some choices may not work out as well as she hopes, but an ability to think should help her improve her life or gather the means to escape to a new one.

Income level and prospects of a fiancé bear little resemblance to overall course of life in the decades to come.

Jinsei Sun 27-Jan-13 13:07:33

YABVU. I will encourage dd to marry a decent man who treats her well and respects her as his equal. If she wants to get married at all, that is.

I will also be encouraging her to make the most of her education and develop her skills in order to maximise her career choices in the future, so that she can pursue whatever kind of lifestyle she chooses.

FWIW, DH and I earned about the same when we got married. I now earn twice as much as he does. It makes no difference to our happiness at all.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 13:07:42

Who here thinks things will be much different in the next 25 years?

Not that I agree in the slightest with marrying a man for his money, or possible earning potential.

SilentSplendidSun Sun 27-Jan-13 13:09:09

Not me, amillionyears. Things ARE different, but in a regressive way...

In some ways I understand this, OP. I earn more than DH and it's likely to always be the case. It means ill never have the option to be a SAHM or work part time, although DH will (note I am not a particularly high earner based on where I live, but my salary covers our mortgage and utilities). It also meant I had a v short ML after DD.

However, would I change DH? No!

LadyMcSplodge Sun 27-Jan-13 13:09:28

Well I may well be in the minority here but I will definitely be encouraging my daughters to marry men that are well off and in professional, high earning roles. I will also be encouraging both girls to have their own highly paid careers too, but I wouldn't be happy if they married a postman, or a milkman, no.

CaseyShraeger Sun 27-Jan-13 13:09:35

Tondelayo - but not because there aren't enough qualified midwives, rather because there aren't enough midwife posts.

eggsy11 Sun 27-Jan-13 13:11:54

fakebook I have a decentish office job, i'm also doing a masters part time and finish this year so hopefully will get decent graduate type placement.

EvenIfYouSeeAPoppy Sun 27-Jan-13 13:12:16

amillionyears - I tried, for years; pleading (yes, pleading) with them to get back in contact when my first son was born after they had ignored me for several years, then taking my sons to visit them on my own (dh wasn't allowed to come with us), living with their controlling ways and refusal to acknowledge dh's part in our lives in any way. Dh was fully behind this. Then I couldn't do it any more and the few very conditional overtures they have made are too little, too late. Dh is fully behind this too.

CotherMuckingFunt Sun 27-Jan-13 13:12:22

I married a man who had a great income but then the company he worked for folded and we're skint. Should I divorce him or concentrate on the fact that I married him for his absolute amazingness that hasn't been changed by our lack of money?

What a fucked up attitude to teach a child.

Mrsrobertduvall Sun 27-Jan-13 13:13:00

Well as my dd doesn't seem to have great earning potential, I am encouraging her to mingle with the boys from the superselective grammar grin

meadow2 Sun 27-Jan-13 13:13:33

Its now how my frirnds go about things silentsplendidsun. No wonder the divorce rate is so high hmm

Lady do you have sons

SparklyAntlersInMyDecorating Sun 27-Jan-13 13:15:00

So you marry that consultant or lawyer or banker - and then there is a redundancy, or a redeployment, or a recession...

You marry your mechanic, or binman, or care worker or plumber or man on the moon or dog walker or whatever ... and you love each other steadily, then maybe there's an illness, or divorce, or children, or no children... or maybe nothing at all.

Life happens - it will throw anything at you from job security, unemployment, illness, children, theft, accidents - regardless of the fiscal position of your marital spouse. Better to teach love, resolve and trust than saying our compatibility is based on your hypothetical assurance to deliver long-term material gain. The aristocracy did marriage as a busy contract for a few hundred years, thankfully the rest of us just got on with it.

SilentSplendidSun Sun 27-Jan-13 13:15:07

Cother, are you deliberately misunderstanding? The OP said marry a well-off man, not divorce him if he falls on bad times.

And you DID marry a well-off man who is also incidentally amazing.

Do you not see the parallels?

Jinsei Sun 27-Jan-13 13:16:20

It's a very weird POV tbh. I'd far rather rely on my own earning potential than a partner's. What if you chose to marry someone for their money and they died/got sick/got made redundant/ran off with another woman etc?

StripeyBear Sun 27-Jan-13 13:17:10

>I'll encourage my daughters to earn their own money and if they're interested in medicine to be consultants themselves.

Yes, I think this is an admirable sentiment. I was involved in work on a report by the Royal College a few years ago into how difficult it is to work flexibly in these positions. From memory, the issues are that training is very long (jumping into the period when most women want to start a family) - and the training process doesn't like to accommodate part-time women or flexible hours as there is a feeling that caring for patients isn't amenable to job-sharing. Consequently women medics go into GP practice in disproptionate numbers. If there is a consultant or medic on here, I'm sure they would explain it better than that.

I know some women want to work full-time and are quite happy to combine that with motherhood. I suppose what I'm thinking is - most women want to reduce their hours when they have children and choose careers or move into jobs that allow them to do that... and therefore their husband's income is probably the primary determinant of their household income/lifestyle.

HappyMummyOfOne Sun 27-Jan-13 13:18:00

YABVU, what a materialistic view to teach your DD. Surely you want more for your daughter than for her to rely on a man and do nothing but stay home.

I hope DS has a good people sense and chooses a partner that loves him and doesnt see him as a cashpoint whilst she stays home.

Women should be encouraged to have it all just the same as men, family and working can go hand in hand easily.

freerangelady Sun 27-Jan-13 13:18:37

Yanbu - with caveats. As long as you are also teaching your daughter that she can be a high earner.

I have numerous friends now who married for love but are having to make huge compromises in their life choices. Most want to stay at home for a few of the early yrs of kids but cannot afford to. I do think girls need it discussed with the that If you are the wealthy one in the partnership you are signing up for a certain lifestyle.

Money doesn't make a marriage but it makes life an awful lot easier in many ways.

CotherMuckingFunt Sun 27-Jan-13 13:19:15

But his money had nothing to do with why I married him. In fact, when I met him he was going through bankruptcy but happened to get a fantastic job (by working his nuts off) in the year before we got married.

I just can't imagine basing a decision on who you want to spend the rest of your life with and be the father of your children on a bank statement.

eggsy11 Sun 27-Jan-13 13:20:06

i don't think the OP was like marry your daughters off to rich men because it's the 1920's... It was more of a 'it's really hard for women to do well because of having children etc'. That's how I read it anyway.

StickEmUp Sun 27-Jan-13 13:21:46

YABU, what a silly state of mind.

Narked Sun 27-Jan-13 13:22:50

'most women want to reduce their hours when they have children and choose careers or move into jobs that allow them to do that'

Really? Most women have to do that because they can't afford the kind of childcare that would allow them to work fulltime, particularly with more than one DC, and they are usually the lower earner so it's their job that's sacrificed.

LadyMcSplodge Sun 27-Jan-13 13:24:50

SPB, I do, yes

honeytea Sun 27-Jan-13 13:26:40

I will encourage my children to value love over a big house nice car and posh school. If you grow up with your parents suggesting you need those things then you are likely to be unhappy in a little house and second hand car.

If your parents teach you about the joy in simple things then your beach holiday in the UK might be more fun than an all inclusive trip to the Caribbean.

FlouncingMintyy Sun 27-Jan-13 13:30:07

Yabu. I will do no such thing! I won't encourage her to marry anyone if she doesn't want to. I will encourage her to be her own person, to do everything in her power to find a job she loves and keep it if possible if she has children.

Your op sounds like something from Pride and Prejudice!

What advice are you giving your sons? Who should they marry? Or are they free to mak their own choices and own way in the world?

I'm not saying don't state a preference, as parents I think we can't help but do so.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 13:30:45

Even, maybe they were using it as part of an excuse.
Or perhaps they now know they have been proved wrong in their own eyes, so dont want to back down now and lose face.
Or perhaps they do wrong behaviour in other areas as well?
I am going off the topic of this thread, so will get back to topic.
I hope they change their behaviour sometime Even, for all your sakes.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 13:32:39

SPB, I am wondering what advice she is giving to her DDs.

op, do you actually have DDs, and what sort of age are they?

Narked Sun 27-Jan-13 13:33:15

I would say it's more important for them to choose to have children with someone who sees raising them - and covering the cost of childcare - as a joint responsibility. Someone who will be up sharing the night time feedings or taking time off when they're ill rather than expecting it to be done by their partner.

Read a few threads on here and from SAHMs to those who work full time and from high earning husbands who are flying all over the world on business to those who are 9-6 low wage manual workers, it's the attitude that matters. There are those who seem to resent taking any part in looking after their own DC and treat money they earn as theirs alone. There are those who cook and clean and accept that working does not entitle them to do feck all at home.

FlouncingMintyy Sun 27-Jan-13 13:33:17

"I think the value and worth of a person should not be defined in monetary terms".

Couldn't agree more naily. But its strange how many people really are interested in money and status. Most of the seriously wealthy people I know are rather dull!

sarahseashell Sun 27-Jan-13 13:34:05

narked plenty of women want to be at home looking after their dcs themselves

tethersend Sun 27-Jan-13 13:36:39

If more men worked flexibly, then more careers would have flexibility.

Where's Xenia when you need her?

bigkidsdidit Sun 27-Jan-13 13:37:32

The problem is your female friends couldn't get flexible work / cheap enough childcare / their DHs didn't split childcare hours with them. If they had been able to keep on at work they wouldn't need to marry a rich man.

Narked Sun 27-Jan-13 13:37:43

I've seen on here, very recently, posts from people who are being held back by their DH. They want to return to work and the attitude from their DH is that they won't earn enough for it to be worthwhile.

Narked Sun 27-Jan-13 13:39:10

Yes, some women do for at least a few years whilst they're small. Not all though.

Narked Sun 27-Jan-13 13:40:33

And those same women who stay at home whilst their DC are small can then face a battle when they want to return to work ^

Branleuse Sun 27-Jan-13 13:40:53

i will not be interfering in my childrens love lives if i can help it. Certainly not over how much money someone earns

flippinada Sun 27-Jan-13 13:42:20

Another option which no-one seems to have mentioned is not marrying at all (apologies if I've missed it) and pleasing yourself. It's not compulsory, in fact I recommend it!

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 13:42:24

tethersend, Xenia wont come on. She married beneath herself remember? [joke]

GinandJag Sun 27-Jan-13 13:42:41

I think there is a lot to be said for putting great worth on earning.

The great evangelist, John Wesley, said: earn as much as you can, save as much as you can, give as much as you can.

Society needs big earners to make it work. All those who don't work rely on taxpayers to fund them. It is very wrong and mixed-up to think high earners lack morality.

I certainly am bringing up both my sons and daughters to aspire to high earnings although one of my sons is heading down a dubious path. It is not unreasonable for them to look for a mate who has similar values.

Callycat Sun 27-Jan-13 13:42:59

I think the biggest problem - which you don't discuss in your OP - is the insane cost of childcare.

Also - do we need to encourage children to marry at all? If they want to partner up, fine - they'll do that without parental encouragement.

SolomanDaisy Sun 27-Jan-13 13:43:11

I think people tend to marry people similar to themselves, so usually have similar earning potential. That seems true for most of the couple's I know. Sometimes I've earned more, sometimes DH has. Be with someone you love still seems the best advice...

HecateWhoopass Sun 27-Jan-13 13:43:13

So we should pair people up according to income?

My understanding is that you want them to earn as much as each other. So a man who earns £50000 a year should only consider marrying a woman who earns the same. Or a man who earns £10000 a year should only marry a woman who earns £10000 a year.

What I don't understand is why. It seems to be so that the woman can take time off work and there will still be money. Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

I really don't understand blush

Because if you pair up two people on minimum wage, and one of them leaves work or goes part time - is that not a terrible financial struggle? But they would have fulfilled your criteria of marrying someone who earned the same as them.

It seems like what you are actually saying is that women should marry rich men.

Because your argument is the nurse who marries the mechanic has to do lots of work.

But if you are saying women should marry men who earn at least as much as them - then you could have 2 people each earning £8000 a year and that would be fine. But that's not what you're saying, is it? You're saying that women should marry rich men. So that they can afford a good lifestyle?

fluffyraggies Sun 27-Jan-13 13:43:44

It is hard for women to do well when they have children, yes. Harder than for men. This is inequality and i hope things will change in the future.

But i don't think the answer is for women to start discarding potential partners because they don't earn enough!

My best friend married for money. We met in our late teens and although she was attractive and clever she always said she would marry a rich bloke because she wanted kids and wanted to be a SAHM. (not exactly the situation the OP describes but still has the marrying for money slant)

Anyway - she ditched her lovely long term boy friend when she was 21 and she found her big earner. They got married. He was a controlling, arrogant prick bad match for her personality wise. She was soon SAHM to 3 kids, a shiney 4x4, gym membership, 5 bedroom house, coffee mornings, cleaner etc etc. She was still attractive and clever, still my best mate. She was a great mum and adored her role as SAHM. Our children were the same ages.

But she was not in love with her husband and wuld confide in me about how she had to get drunk and fantasise wildly in order to 'let him have sex with her'. Which she did roughly once a month to keep him happy. She did this to keep her lifestyle. I always found it very sad.

SolomanDaisy Sun 27-Jan-13 13:44:01

Bloody kindle fire and its random apostrophes there.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 13:47:20

GinandJag, surely if a woman has married a man for his income, the marriage is more likely to be on shakier ground?

libertychick Sun 27-Jan-13 13:47:57

I think if you are going to encourage your DD's to marry men who earn the same or more than them then you had better be prepared for them to never marry (or be in a long term relationship). Women are outperforming men in almost every field and women in their 20's have closed the pay gap.

I earn a lot more than DH (we earned about the same when we got married but my career took off) so I only took 6 mths mat leave and he has been SAHD for just over 18 months now. There are up and downs to both roles, I often wish I could have more time with DD and it's stressful to have the pressure of being the sole earner. DH often worries about the impact of the time out of work on his career and finds it difficult how little respect people have for his chosen role. But for both of us, it hugely important to ensure that DD has the stability of a FT parent at home up to age 3 and we have jointly agreed to make sacrifices for that.

I do think money can help provide security and make life a bit easier but rather than focusing on earnings I will be encouraging DD (and a DS if I am lucky enough to ever have one) to be resilient, adaptable, positive people and to seek out similiar people as long term partners.

GinandJag Sun 27-Jan-13 13:48:40

"should we pair up people according to income?"

No, we shouldn't try to control anything. That smacks of forced marriage and social engineering.

It is up to the young people themselves as to what they do. They will act according to the values that have been instilled in them. For me and my house, we place high emphasis on reaching your own potential, which means earning high and giving high.

Saying that people should only marry shack up with their own kind denies any kind of social mobility, which is totally wrong.

freerangelady Sun 27-Jan-13 13:50:25

Bigkids - in the case of my friends it's nothing to do with childcare etc. it's the basic fact that they want to stay at home and be mums for a while. They are all in pretty well paid careers eg lawyers,'accountants etc.

I do think the op has phrased this badly. Of course women shouldn't only marry within their financial ''class" but I do think you need to be aware of the consequences of your decisions. If your daughter can accept
Those consequences in the name of love then that's fine.

bunnybing Sun 27-Jan-13 13:52:59

Stripeybear - so your girlfriend has married a consultant - does that not cause problems in itself re jealousy, infidelity?

<childish emoticon>

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 13:55:21

GinandJag.
Reaching your potential is reaching your potential whatever that level is.
You assume to know already that your children have capabilities of high earning.

But no, young people dont always act according to the values instilled in them, as social pressures from outside the family, come into play a lot too. As does their own inherent personality.

NumericalMum Sun 27-Jan-13 13:58:33

I will encourage my daughter to aspire to be a high earner. The only thing I want for her is to be able to be independent and never trapped in a loveless marriage for financial reasons.

I want her to be happy but I would like her to be independent most of all.

GinandJag Sun 27-Jan-13 14:00:57

Um, that's why I phrased it as "reaching your potential" rather than attributing an absolute level/goal.

I am not the kind of parent who automatically assumes their children will be brilliant although in my case, they are, mwha ha ha

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 14:00:58

I too have both sons and daughters.
And I have already realised, that over the course of their lifetimes, the sons are likely to "make more money" because they may well be going to full time work until old age.
Whereas, it is quite likely, though definitely not guaranteed, that my daughters, if they have children, would take time out childcare wise, and thus their earnings will not total the same as my sons.

But I have taken equal time in helping them,education, career and job wise.
As nothing in life is guaranteed.

Dawndonna Sun 27-Jan-13 14:01:58

biscuit

My question was to lady, no the op sorry. She said shed not be happy if her daughters married postmen.

Mosman Sun 27-Jan-13 14:02:49

I'd hope my male and female children marry somebody who will pull their weight one way or another, my brother is with a girl who runs her own business and brings up his two children, does all house work, pays bills etc, i honestly do not know why she keeps him, perhaps he is some sort of exotic pet for her confused

mrsjay Sun 27-Jan-13 14:12:01

YABU MY daughters can marry whoever they want (or not marry) is it all about material wealth is it really hmm MY dd earns more than her boyfriend and when she finishesuni and the career she will hopefully have she will more than likely earn more than him it is irrelevant really, perhaps your poor run ragged friend is happy with her lot,

How about challenging the notion that women must sacrafice their careers for the sake of their family (unless they want to)? There are lots of different models of how families work, either parent could choose to stay at home, both could work part time and juggle, or both could work full time and find good childcare. None of these options are superior.

How about we encourage our children (of either gender) to make considered and informed decisions about how they want their lives to be and leave it at that?

WorraLiberty Sun 27-Jan-13 14:30:50

So if my DS becomes a consultant, I should encourage him not to marry a midwife because she'll be on far less money than him?

Or is it ok for men to marry 'beneath' them financially but not the reverse?

I'm almost sure WAGS have nailed that one.

And since when does a nurse earn more than a mechanic?

Bobyan Sun 27-Jan-13 14:31:38

So what happens when your high earning Sil buggers off with his secretary who he's been shagging behind you dd's back for years?

Think I'd prefer it if my dd pays her own way in the world and marries for the right reasons.

QueenofPlaids Sun 27-Jan-13 14:40:30

OP I don't think YAB entirely U, but for me, the message isn't just about money (and isn't just for girls).

I think it's about aspiration and ambition for both partners - not just cash.

I'd encourage any hypothetical DC to think about what they want from life and marry someone who was on the same page. Shit happens, but I think a starting point of huge income or educational inequality is likely to make things harder, not easier. (Not to say I don't know couples where this works, but I also know many where the disparity in education, ambition & work ethic has been a major issue).

lovetomoan Sun 27-Jan-13 14:46:09

YANBU

But I will encourage my DS to do the same grin

Joke aside, DS and any future DC will marry/shag/kiss whoever they want.

popsgran Sun 27-Jan-13 14:46:18

my mother used to say ;dont marry for money but fall in love where money is;

i didnt but have often wished I had.Its so hard having to be the main earner .
all we can do is advise or go for arranged marriages! They wont listen,we didnt.

SoWhatIfImWorkingClass Sun 27-Jan-13 14:54:11

It's not all about how much is in a man's wallet. A woman could meet a man who works on the tills in Asda or a man who is a company director, and to me it shouldn't be the money he earns that determines who she falls in love with.

Come to think of it, if I met a man with lots of money I would feel very inferior in the relationship, and to be honest quite a bit paranoid and insecure. A man with less money I feel would always have his head out of the clouds and be less of an arse.

Also, I think it's a bit silly to say a man should earn at least as much as his partner. If I was on 50k and my partner was on 30k I'd be a fool to want him out. I don't have a daughter, but if I ever did have a daughter I would not be encouraging her to take this attitude.

DontmindifIdo Sun 27-Jan-13 14:59:12

well here goes - I don't have a DD, but do currently have a DS. If I do have a DD next, what I will be telling her is this: It's a lie that you can have it all. Something has to give. flexibility, part time working and being a SAHM are luxuries, if you want them, you will have to marry a man who can provide them (and marry him, I'd never encourage an unmarried mother to do anything to damage her career as you have no claim on his money beyond maintenance). If you chose to marry a man who doesn't earn enough to fund them and your current lifestyle, it's a choice you need to make before you have DCs that you will do without to have him - but struggling and getting grumpy afterwards when you have to work full time when friends don't should be thought about first.

I would also say that bar some professional careers that are high status but realtively low paid (teaching is a good example), it doesn't work longterm for a woman to pick a partner who earns a lot less than her, because it shows either your partner is less intelliegent than you (which in my experience, starts to grate once looks and passion fade), or they are less ambitious/less hard working/more of a 'dreamer'. That usually is a sign of very different life aims and goals, attitudes to hard work, money, status etc - there's no right or wrong attitude to have really, but when you have a couple with very different attitudes to money and careers, it can make it really difficult long term.

I would also counter this by saying I'll be teaching DS he should only consider marrying a woman who has a similar attitude to money, spending, childcare, housework, life goals etc as him. Too many couples wait until after they are pregnant to have these discussions. Far too late.

Theicingontop Sun 27-Jan-13 15:02:12

YABU. I won't be encouraging my daughter to marry, let alone for money.

usualsuspect Sun 27-Jan-13 15:07:30

Marriage,Meh

Startail Sun 27-Jan-13 15:11:29

I will encourage my DDs to marry a man who is their intellectual equal.

Earnings are luck, DH landed a well paid job, I didn't.

But if he'd chosen to remain in academia on a post docs peanuts we'd still have been able to share our awful scientific puns.

I have a friend who's a medic, she can if she works full time earn real money. Her admin working DH can't. She loves him lots and he's a great dad, but even she admits he's dim.

That would drive me and DD1 nuts, DD2 might be more tolerant short term, but long term I think feeling smug would turn into irritation.

SilentSplendidSun Sun 27-Jan-13 15:11:40

Wow dontmind that's exactly what I wanted to say, but didn't for fear of being branded a man-hater. grin That is spot on...

manicbmc Sun 27-Jan-13 15:15:33

I will be encouraging my dd to be responsible for her own welfare and happiness and to not rely on marrying anyone to achieve that.

Isn't that a better thing to teach our daughters?

Binkybix Sun 27-Jan-13 15:18:26

I would not want to interfere with who my children decided to marry and, as others have said, there's a lot more to happiness than money.

But I do get a little bit where you're coming from. Amongst my female friends I'm one of the highest earners. Me and DH earn about the same, but my lifestyle choices are much more restricted because most of my friends' partners earn loads. This will be amplified when we have kids (am pregnant). My friends would have the choice to give up work/go part time and maintain lifestyle. I don't. It would be nice to feel that freedom, because I don't enjoy my work.

I'm not saying for one second I would value a high earning DH over a happy partnership, but seems like many of my friends have both, and that must feel great sometimes. I know that I am lucky in the grand scheme of things though.

WhatsTheBuzz Sun 27-Jan-13 15:19:36

ridiculous, why would encourage your daughters OR sons to rely on someone else?? Yabu.

redbobblehat Sun 27-Jan-13 15:28:30

lol at the haven comment!!

crumbs imagine having to stoop to holidays at haven

have a biscuit op

WhatsTheBuzz Sun 27-Jan-13 15:31:34

I agree, redbobblehat, the shame of holidaying in Haven...hmm

toffeelolly Sun 27-Jan-13 15:35:39

oh, what a snob you are. grin

carabos Sun 27-Jan-13 15:36:26

If my DH walked out tomorrow he would leave not the smallest dent in the family budget and everything I have today I would have the day after left.

I am entirely financially independent, always have been and for that reason I was able to marry for love alone.

That is the lesson to teach your daughters.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 15:38:55

Why do you have to wait for the world to move ahead to fathers being equal parents: can't you just settle for not agreeing to marry somebody who is not prepared to be an equal parent?

My FIL managed SAHD and equal parenting without waiting for the world to follow and he was born in 1909!

DreamingOfTheMaldives Sun 27-Jan-13 15:40:29

I often wish that my husband and I earned more as it would make things easier, particularly as we are now expecting our first baby, but would I turn the clock back and swap him for a man who earns more. Not in a million years! My husband is a kind, thoughtful, loving man who looks after me (as I look after him) and I have no doubt that he will make a fantastic father. The fact that he earns an average wage is irrelevant.

I would encourage any young woman to work hard and build a career for herself and to only be with a partner, whether male or female, if she loves them and they treat her well.

Anyway now my DH and I have done the cleaning between us I'm off to get in the bath that he has run for me while he cooks us a roast dinner something I've never mastered What do I need a rich man for when my husband makes me feel rich

NapaCab Sun 27-Jan-13 15:43:38

Why not just encourage your daughter to aim high and try to earn as much as she can in life so she can provide her own detached house, private schools, holidays etc, if that's what she wants?

The two women you mention are in middle-income jobs. If they had become consultants themselves, they could provide these things on their own and not rely on a man's earnings.

Not enough parents push girls to think about their financial future like this. Hence women doing more arts degrees or qualifying in lower paid sectors generally. We need to encourage daughters to be career-focused and intelligent about money and living standards instead of just assuming that it's OK for little Arabella to do Art History because she can always marry money anyway.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 15:48:01

carabos, wouldnt your DH take half of your assets?

timidviper Sun 27-Jan-13 15:49:22

I think we're mostly agreed that money isn't everything but, if all else is equal, it can make life easier.

I want my DD to have a happy and loving relationship. I also hope she will not struggle financially and, to that end, have encouraged her to get a good education and have ambitions for herself as well as for her partner. Exactly the same as I hope for my DS actually.

Chunderella Sun 27-Jan-13 15:51:34

LadyMcSplodge the average postman earns about £18.5k after a year's experience. Not a colossal sum, no, but not so bad considering they finish work early and have much of the afternoon free for childcare, school pick ups and cooking the evening meal. A woman with a highly paid professional career who was thinking strategically about a suitable occupation for a mate might be sensible to choose a postman.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 15:53:26

I fell in love with and (after a 10 year engagement) married a poor man. What I knew was that he was caring, committed, with a sense of humour and a willingness to pull his weight.

20 years later we are not quite so poor. We will never be on the level of the OPs friend who married a consultant, but we are comfortable.

In that time, shit has happened that no level of money could have eased. But that same care, commitment, sense of humour and willingness to pull weight has seen us through.

touchlight Sun 27-Jan-13 16:00:51

Life is definitely easier with a husband on a good salary and imo it makes sense to make decisions in life that are going to make things easiest for you and your family. I married DH for being a loving, kind, respectful man, who pulls his weight, is a great dad, and very attractive - but on top of all that, is on a six figure salary. I don't like the assumption here that if a man is rich, he can't possibly be a nice person, or is bound to be unfaithful, or won't share parenting equally. I don't believe in The One, I think that for every woman there are lots of potential partners who would be fine to settle down with, and out of those, it's sensible to choose the one who is going to provide well for the family. It's very simplistic to put relationships into a binary of marrying for love/marrying for money.

Now, I did date men in younger years who were just as kind and respectful, but due to their career choices/academic ability/ambitions, my lifestyle would never have been as comfortable as it is and looking back, I'm glad I didn't settle down with them. I would never have been able to be a SAHM, or pursue further academic study in a subject I'm passionate about.

StripeyBear Sun 27-Jan-13 16:02:52

akissisnotacontract said
"YABU. I earn double what my DH to be earns. We are very very happy together though. We play to our strengths, he's much better at household stuff than I am and when we have children his career will take a back seat to mine. We are very lucky to be living in a time when we can make that choice."

I'm glad you're happy together, but this would worry me a bit if you were my daughter. Until you actually hold your own baby in your arms, you really don't know how you'll feel. I know you think you do, but you don't. Before I had children, even when I was heavily pregnant with my first, I assumed that childcare would be easier for under 5s because you could use a nursery that works 363 days a year 7.30hrs to 18.00hrs. I was highly career focused, and expected to return full-time. When I actually had my baby I felt completely differently. The thought of leaving her in a nursery at all wasn't comfortable for me.

I will probably be jumped on for saying this - but women tend to find it harder than Dads to leave their babies and go to work. I think a hell of a lot of the surveys come out saying that many mothers would like to work less and spend more time with their children. I suppose that is why - given many women are highly educated and have great careers before children - women tend to do the bulk of the childcare and are far more likely to reduce working hours to care for children.

The thing is - having children with someone who earns half as much as you puts you in a position where you will have to choose to leave your very young (breastfed??) baby with her Dad, or accept a much lower standard of living than you can achieve if you were the working parent. Tough one...

funnymum71 Sun 27-Jan-13 16:04:21

I wish I'd married someone with the same earning potential as me. I am the main wage earner on at least double what my DH is earning. I married for love, FWIW, but love can fade. I'm now in the position where I am too ill to work at the moment and maybe for some time and we're finacially fucked because of it.

I wouldn't say to my DD, make sure you marry someone who can support you financially, but I certainly would say to her that unless she wants to spend her life with the constant pressure of having to support everyone regardless of her health, to at least marry someone who has the same level of education / ambition / career, so the pressure can be shared equally.

funnymum71 Sun 27-Jan-13 16:07:10

And yes to the OPs last comment about having children - We had to take out a bank loan to cover my last maternity leave. The loan paid the mortgage and bills while I was off work and I now have to pay the same outgoings AND the loan.

carabos Sun 27-Jan-13 16:07:22

amillionyears no he wouldn't get half my assets. He wouldn't try to get them (such as they are) and I know from bitter experience with XH that it is impossible to enforce any order made regarding division of assets, especially when there are no dependent children to consider.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 16:07:24

"The thing is - having children with someone who earns half as much as you puts you in a position where you will have to choose to leave your very young (breastfed??) baby with her Dad, or accept a much lower standard of living than you can achieve if you were the working parent. Tough one... "

Not necessarily. Most mothers do not choose to breastfeed beyond the year, in fact many only do 6 months, and may well be able to get back into the workplace after that. Not everybody feels uncomfortable about leaving their children with the dad: dh and I used to share childcare, and my SIL was happy to leave my brother in charge while she did her university degree. I would have been happy to have let dh be the SAHP if I had been at a better point in my career. To me, that is nothing like leaving them in a nursery: dh is their parent! He is like an extension of me.

funnymum71 Sun 27-Jan-13 16:08:15

Don't get me wrong BTW - I love my job and the fact that I have a successful career and I wouldn't want to be a SAHM as it just wouldn't suit me, but I am very aware of the realities of being the breadwinner when you're a woman.

grovel Sun 27-Jan-13 16:09:16

My Mum told me to marry for love. She also told me to try to "move in monied circles" because that way I was more likely to fall in love with someone with money/prospects. A tad cynical but basically sound advice.

DioneTheDiabolist Sun 27-Jan-13 16:11:08

Illness.
Accident.
Bankruptcy.
Redundancy.
Divorce.
Career change.

Chances are that at least one of these things will happen throughout the course of the relationship, so I'm not sure that ensuring the DH earns more at the time of marriage means anything other than he can pay more of the wedding costs.

herecomesthsun Sun 27-Jan-13 16:11:18

My gradnmother used to say, "Get An Education, Never Be Beholden to Any Man!

I did.

I didn't marry a high earner. I AM quite a high earner. It gives me a lot of choices. I would recommend it! The choices include marrying someone who earns a lot less than me, by the way.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 16:16:26

DioneTheDiabolist Sun 27-Jan-13 16:11:08
"Illness.
Accident.
Bankruptcy.
Redundancy.
Divorce.
Career change.

Chances are that at least one of these things will happen throughout the course of the relationship, so I'm not sure that ensuring the DH earns more at the time of marriage means anything other than he can pay more of the wedding costs."

This. There is no guarantee that it won't be the high earning dh who falls ill or becomes disabled or loses his job.

manicbmc Sun 27-Jan-13 16:19:34

Precisely, Cory.

I'll never forget the feeling of horror I had when I was still at school and many of the girls were saying they could never marry someone who didn't have a lot of money.

MarathonMama Sun 27-Jan-13 16:22:23

I think there's something to be said for making teenagers/ students aware of how their career choices may be impacted by family life.

I'd love to go back to work but my job can not be done flexibly or part time. To do something that fits with the family would mean starting again, which isn't worth doing when you factor in the cost of re-training and childcare. So I feel at the mercy of my DH's career and earnings.

I wish I'd originally gone into something that could be done part time. I feel like my career has been wasted.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 16:35:39

That is a good point cory. Some men[and women for that matter] are poorer, because they are not willing to pull their weight.

ThinkAboutItOnBoxingDay Sun 27-Jan-13 16:36:49

Good god. Our generation is meant to be making it easier for our daughters to soar, not giving them limiting beliefs like this.

My mum was raised to quit work when she had a family. She raised me to have options. I earn a lot. I see my role as a feminist in business as making sure idiots like the tutor up thread with their 20+ women are 'ticking timebombs' comment are shown to be idiots.
I have worked for 15 years and built a great career. Then I stopped work for 9 months to have a baby. Now I resume my career. What's the problem?

morethanpotatoprints Sun 27-Jan-13 16:41:50

YADBU

So you want your dd to be a type of prostitute then, if her dh has to earn money to provide material things.

I am encouraging my dd to marry for love and this alone. Its hard enough when you do love the other person, take away the love and its misery, however much money your dh earns.

I don't work anywhere near those hours to make a good wage though OP. I'm very lucky that my choice of career (dentistry) is very flexible. Even if I worked a 3 day week I'd have a good income and time to spend with future DCs. You're right that until I have a child I won't know what it's like to leave one with his/her dad and go to work. But having grown up watching my SAHM mother trapped in an abusive marriage I'll take my chances with the options I've made.

DontmindifIdo Sun 27-Jan-13 16:51:44

ThinkAboutIt - but that assumes that what woman want is to be working mothers. What if you don't but then find you have no choice because you've married someone who can't afford to support you to do it? Pointing out that by marrying a relatively low paid man you are taking away that option, that no matter how you feel about it, you will have to go back to work after 9 months/a year full time isn't a bad thing.

You can raise your DD to have options, while at the same time pointing out that choices made in late teens and early 20s can take away options when they are in their 30s and to think about these before they make those choices.

I don't see anything wrong with pointing out if you choice a career that can only be done full time that means when you have DCs you will either have to work full time or not at all, part time not being an option (I know both full time working mothers and SAHM who would have picked part time if they had the option, most didn't think about this until they were already pregnant).

There's a big difference in telling girls that there are certain careers that aren't an option for them because of childcare issues, and telling girls that there are certain careers that they could do and do well, but to go into them with their eyes open that they aren't family friendly and that will mean they have to make tough choices when they start a family, if they start a family at all.

There's also a big difference between saying "you must marry a man who can keep you" and saying "if you marry a man who can't keep you, you will have less choices than someone who does."

DumSpiroSpero Sun 27-Jan-13 16:54:36

I will encourage my daughter to be financially independent regardless of who she marries but also to bear in mind the implications of her future career on family life and vice versa.

She is 8 now and has wanted to be a teacher since the moment she set foot in her Reception class, so am kind of hoping that idea sticks tbh.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 16:56:37

So what advice would you give your sons? What if they want to be SAHDs? Or is it only women who get a choice? Or what if they don't want to be forced to do a job that doesn't suit them just because women have a right to be kept? Will you advise them that they can't get married at all in that case? Seeing that all women should marry this kind of man?

DeepRedBetty Sun 27-Jan-13 17:00:34

yanbu when you say that you just don't know how you'll feel about your work/home balance when you become a parent until you experience it, and it is more difficult to spend a large amount of time with your children if their dad's earning potential is less than yours. One of my dsis's embraced sahm, she loved it and was sad when dnephew went to school, the other couldn't wait to get back to work, not because the mortgage needed paying but because although she loves her dc dearly she freely admitted she was bored rigid of baby stuff. And I definitely fell between these two extremes.

It boils down to the simple truth, that money buys choice.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 17:15:13

If money buys choice, why should those high earning men ever consent to marry our daughters? Surely they'd be better off marrying some high earning woman so they can have the choice whether to have a wealthy life-style with a SAHM or a very wealthy life style with two high earner?

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 17:16:10

Money is choice, so the midwife should aspire to marry the consultant. But why should the consultant ever aspire to marry the midwife?

StripeyBear Sun 27-Jan-13 17:16:23

*thinkaboutitonboxingday" wrote:
My mum was raised to quit work when she had a family. She raised me to have options. I earn a lot. I see my role as a feminist in business as making sure idiots like the tutor up thread with their 20+ women are 'ticking timebombs' comment are shown to be idiots.
I have worked for 15 years and built a great career. Then I stopped work for 9 months to have a baby. Now I resume my career. What's the problem?

I'm not advocating that women shouldn't be as educated as possible and be aiming for high-flying careers - after all, it's good fun and gives you more options and who knows what will happen in your life - you might never have any children for what ever reason. I'm not trying to limit options, just trying to be pragmatic.

Your post reminded me of a conversation in a bar. I was writing my (feminist) PhD at the time, and sitting round the table with a number of academic feminists, most with international reputations. We were all trying to think of a female feminist academic in our field who had maintained her career after having children - we couldn't think of one. That was nearly 20 years ago, maybe things have moved on - but I think we concluded that it was hard - academia was/probably still is a demanding mistress - and was harder to please when you're trying to juggle her with motherhood.

I'm glad you've got a job you enjoy and see no problem with taking 9 months off and going back to work - I suppose be able to afford to take 9 months off might be a problem if you're the main earner - but I suppose some people would be able to budget for this.

For me, the issue would be leaving my baby - the job I was doing prior to kids was relatively long hours - I would often be on the blackberry at 7am on the way to work and not leaving the office till 6 or 6.30pm. There would be some evenings - and the odd weekend working. I used to socialise with my colleagues as well - it wasn't essential to my job, but sort of expected sad Then there would be the travel - for a day trip to London, for example, I would be leaving the house not much past 5am, and not getting home till 9pm-ish.

I ended up compromising and working part-time, and making it clear that really long days were out - which meant I got landed with the least interesting work of my career, and my promotion prospects dropped to around zero. I suppose if I had a SAHD, other than bf-ing he perhaps could have taken my place as a principal carer - but I like being my babies, so I wouldn't have liked that.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 17:20:57

cory, the way I see it is, a consultant might marry the midwife, if she is pretty, and he is not.
That is how it sometimes works, from what I have seen.

VBisme Sun 27-Jan-13 17:21:25

I earn a decent amount, which means that my husband can work, or not work, or set up his own business.

I'm glad my parents raised me to earn my own money. It means that my family have options. I think what your suggesting is stupid and dangerous.

What happens when they get divorced?

Chunderella Sun 27-Jan-13 17:30:53

Cory it depends what the high earner wants. Any consultant, male or female, who wants their own career to be the priority and to have a SAH/part time spouse would be sensible to marry someone less career focused than them, and such a person will probably be earning less. The problem with marrying or partnering with another consultant is that the spouse is probably also highly ambitious, driven and educated and therefore more likely to want to prioritise their own career. It depends whether the consultant would prefer the ability to be a SAHP themself, or to progress as far as they can in their own career by having a supportive partner providing bullet proof childcare. Presumably some high earning males will fall into the former category and others the latter.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 17:37:56

Realised I should have put "..from what I have seen of some higher earners".

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 17:40:36

So why should we give advice to our daughters regardless of how they may individually feel?

Why is it ok if a male consultant thinks it's enough to marry good looks, but not if a female one does?

And for the record, I can think of several female academics in my own smallish department alone who have young children and are maintaining their careers; also, several internationally well known female academics who have grown up children.

ThinkAboutItOnBoxingDay Sun 27-Jan-13 17:41:24

But Stripeybear, our role, or mine (self appointedgrin) is to make it easier. I deliberately sought out a company run by brilliant women. They established flex in their business. We work bloody hard and are very good at what we do. But if we need/want to we can have the flex to do the school pick up. In return they get top talent (self assessedgrin) very dedicated to the business. My team has only one guy in it and the business is growing despite recession.

We need to make this the norm, so our daughters can realise their options. Not bury them in dependence on their partner.

DontmindifIdo Sun 27-Jan-13 17:42:48

Amillionyears - I would say it's more, a consultant who wants DCs himself and doesn't want to make any career sacrifices, would be best to marry a bright woman who is able to go part time/give up her career so she can be main carer to mean he can have both career and DCs.

Plus let's remember, a lot of men have only reached the stage they have in their career because they married a woman who was prepared to support them non-financially, but time and emotionally, running the house and picking up the slack at home while they are working/studying. When DH did his last qualification I had a lot more bedtimes with DS on my own, did far more than my share of the housework etc, because I see his career being for our whole good. If I couldn't offer that to him, either because I didn't want to or was working myself, then he wouldn't have been able to do it.

OP, was your friend's DH a consultant when they first got together or has she supported him emotionally and made time sacrifices over the years so he could get to that stage?

Windsocks Sun 27-Jan-13 17:44:45

YANB totally U. I went to a good Uni, had my own career and home etc. It meant that money was never a factor in my romantic decisions - in fact a couple of boyfriends were quite well off but weren't the person I wanted to marry. But when I met my DH I knew quite quickly that he was 'the one'. And tbh it was a relief that he has a good career and is a hard worker because it means I have choices over maternity leave / career breaks etc. I have friends and colleagues who don't have those choices and had to go back to work within a few months because their salary was needed to cover the mortgage.

That said some of them have built enormous houses or drive luxury cars and that was part of the financial pressure they faced. On the other hand we live comfortably but modestly. So I guess it depends on what your expectations are.

MrsLion Sun 27-Jan-13 17:44:52

Ultimately I want my DDs to marry someone who loves them, treats them with respect, is a fantastic father, a generous, kind and loving person. Above all else.

However, I have been 'well off' and I also experienced very hard financial times when db's business  nearly went bankrupt. Actually we are still struggling now to some extent.

In my experience, even with an amazing and lovely dh, having no money puts a terrible strain on a marriage, a family and life in general. Life is much, much nicer when you don't have to worry about paying bills and food. 
It's naive to think money shouldn't be one of many factors that come into play when considering all your life choices - including who you marry. 

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 17:46:42

My extremely bright SIL had the nous to marry a man who would be good at looking after her children and enable her to do a PhD and start a research career.

The whole argument seems to be based on the idea that it is fine and to be expected that the man will not want to make any career sacrifices but that a woman must admit that she probably will. My SIL didn't want to. She still has two lovely sons who adore their mother. Good on her.

MrsLion Sun 27-Jan-13 17:46:55

Dh's business

KellyElly Sun 27-Jan-13 17:47:39

I think if you are going to have children it's sensible to choose a partner who is solvent and able to manage their finances. Having had a child with someone who is the opposite of that because I was 'madly in love' it was draining and stressful to have to try to support him financially and bring up a child on an average to low wage. Now as a lone parent I am reliant on tax credits and housing benefit to top up my salary and cost of child care as he is still quite frankly shit with money and self employed. I can see where you're coming from OP but its not going to be a popular point of view.

freerangelady Sun 27-Jan-13 17:48:08

Think about it - that's great and I hope that there are more business' like yours in the future. It doesn't work like that all the time though and although some industries can change career breaks and flexible working just canno be accommodated in some industries. E g I'm a livestock farmer. My job has to change significantly when my baby arrives (hopefly this wk!) and for other employees in the business flexibility is pretty much a non option.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 17:51:07

But MrsLion, is your experience a good argument for marrying a wealthy business man? Surely that kind of person is far more likely to go bankrupt than a postman or a nurse?

When I married dh I knew we would be poor, and to some extent we have been. But there have been no ups and downs, rather a steady climb into slighly more but still modest affluence. Which is no doubt a lot less stressful than going bankrupt.

forehead Sun 27-Jan-13 17:51:16

I want my daughters to marry a good man. However, i am not going to lie, i would rather they marry someone who is financially stable or has the potential to do well. All this 'i want my dd to marry someone she loves' is all well and good, but not if that someone is a financial burden.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 17:53:47

I do agree that I would not be happy for dd to marry somebody who was shit with money.

But I wouldn't be happy for ds to marry somebody who was shit with money either.

And being shit with money has nothing to do with your actual position or wealth: dh has been a low earner for most of his career but is excellent with money and saved up for half the mortgage during our 10 year long engagment (because the bank refused to lend more than half to somebody with such a low income)- now that's commitment and reliability!

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 17:54:11

cory, I was not making a judgement on it, just saying what happens.
"But why should the consultant ever aspire to marry the midwife".

VBisme Sun 27-Jan-13 17:57:03

But Mrs Lion, wouldn't you have been okay if you had got a good job with a decent income? Regardless of how your DH business was doing.

I suppose we could adjust the basic premise to say to say if your daughters are incapable of earning a decent living themselves, or saving enough to take the maternity, then they wanted then they should try to bag a rich husband - how does that sound?

This will be my first hidden thread, I find it deeming to women.

WifeofPie Sun 27-Jan-13 18:01:38

I think it's more important to marry someone with ambition and a good work ethic and I would encourage making choices that allow her to make choices when it comes time to have children of her own. In both her career and her life partner.

Splatt34 Sun 27-Jan-13 18:10:48

i haven't read the whole thread. But.... I earn & always will a huge amount more than DH. He currently works part time on days when DD is are nursery. He does the rest of the childcare, the house work, groceries etc etc & is better at it than I would be.

I still get plenty of quality time with DDI. Our set up works brilliantly for us. I will be encouraging DD to achieve to the best of her ability & to reach for the stars. In the process i hope she finds a DP who will make her as happy as i am.

"My FIL managed SAHD and equal parenting without waiting for the world to follow and he was born in 1909! "

That made me smile. He sounds fantastic.

motherinferior Sun 27-Jan-13 18:11:49

What will you encourage your daughters to do if they are lesbians, then? Are you going to stick in these 'women need to be funded to stay at home when they become parents' attitudes?

I myself will be encouraging my daughters to find partners who genuinely respect their right to work (which is less common than many men allege) and who absolutely approach domestic labour as a shared enterprise

merlottits Sun 27-Jan-13 18:16:52

God, I completely agree, OP.

I'm the run ragged nurse with a DH on an average wage with a small house run ragged with extra shifts and no holidays. I can feel my life shortening from the stress of it.

From the girls I was at school with there is an obvious divide. The girls who married well (materially) and the girls who didn't.

I have friends who have a fantastic life because their DH's earn well, and friends who are struggling like me because their DH's don't.

Some of the girls have gone on to earn quite well themselves but the quality of lives seems to be (to me and my friends) affected mostly by the earning power of the man.

I am extremely envious of the lifestyle of some of my friends, and really it was luck of the draw. We all met our partner in similar ways. I was naive though. I really thought money DIDN'T MATTER. I thought love was all that mattered. I was wrong and immature, actually. Money is a huge issue! Massive! I'm currently trapped in an awful job. My well-healed friends look at me curiously. Why don't you just leave? grin

I have two DDs. I hope they earn well themselves and meet rich men. You just can't do what you want in life without money. You just don't have the choices and options open to you.

DioneTheDiabolist Sun 27-Jan-13 18:19:12

I think mutual respect and an ability and willingness to communicate are much more important as these qualities will get them through whatever storms batter their relationship. Financial, child related or whatever.

VBisme Sun 27-Jan-13 18:21:12

So why are you a nurse and not a doctor, consultant or surgeon, don't you think that could make a difference to your family income, why is it down to the man to earn the largest wage?

I was born in the 70s and my parents in the 50s. While it was fairly traditional set up, my mum workedm full time in a professional job and my dad was equally as 'parenty' as my mum (I don't remember whether he changed my nappy but I know he did half the "our daughter never sleeps" night shifts). And they raised me for myself - my job/career (or not), the home that I would buy with my money. They never pressured me but made it clear that they expected me to do the best I could. While they were thrilled when I got married and had children (I'm an only child so DS and DD are their only grandchildren) it was never an expectation - i was primarily a person in my own right

HazleNutt Sun 27-Jan-13 18:25:13

Of course money matters and gives you choices. But I would not want to rely on someone else to provide me the lifestyle I want. We have a good life because I earn well.
True, this means that I also have to make respective career choices and can't simply quit one day if I don't feel like working any more - but on the other hand, I also don't have to worry what happens if that rich DH one day does not want to fund our life any more. I prefer it this way.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 18:25:35

SPBInDisguise Sun 27-Jan-13 18:10:48
""My FIL managed SAHD and equal parenting without waiting for the world to follow and he was born in 1909! "

That made me smile. He sounds fantastic"

He was fantastic, SPB.

We are talking of a man who could remembering visiting Versailles before the outbreak of the First World War. And yet he never seemed old, even when I knew him in his 80s and 90s. He lived to play with his grandson who was born in 2000.

As a teenager he contracted TB in his leg and was told he would never walk again. So he became a hairdresser and spent all his working life on his feet. Took part in WWII but was refused an invalid's pension after the war as he was told he should never have been allowed to join up in the first place.

With an attitude like that, a bit of parenting wasn't going to throw him. grin

Iteotwawki Sun 27-Jan-13 18:29:26

There's a lot of crap on this thread.

FWIW, I'm a consultant (medic) and I married a man who earns far less than me, he always will. However his intelligence runs rings around mine, we share the same geeky sense of humour and our boys are learning from him that a father can be as equal a parent and housekeeper as a mother.

I have several consultant friends who are married to other consultants. They all work and share the housework / childcare equally. None had to sacrifice career progression for their partner, they all mutually supported each other through long hours and tough exams and sleepless nights with babies. Now they just have to juggle various rosters to make sure they are on call on different nights of the week.

I will be teaching my sons that they should marry (if they want to) a man or woman that shares their ideals, their hopes for the future, their sense of humour. Someone they respect, who respects them. Someone they can trust. Someone they fancy the pants off. Someone who will see their point of view. Because then they might have the same chance of ending up in a relationship as good as their parents'. I will also tell them to be wary of being married purely for their income!

Molehillmountain Sun 27-Jan-13 18:33:50

Well now, I have two dd's and a ds. I shall make sure that when we discuss the interview and vetting process for future spouses that I make it clear that when they're down to the final two, the one with the larger income or prospect to earn will clinch the deal. I'll also hope that their future spouse sees them as an equally good prospect. Or I'll hope it pans out as it has for me - with someone who earns enough to share the financial responsibility of a decent, if not private school and Bahamas holiday lifestyle. If I look at my in-laws -two teachers living a comfortable retirement with no thrills but in company they adore to my parents - miserable but wealthy, I still know what is choose. Please god my children get that.

Molehillmountain Sun 27-Jan-13 18:34:41

I meant frills-for all I know my in laws have plenty of thrills ;-)

motherinferior Sun 27-Jan-13 18:40:35

Fwiw I am not personally driven wild with envy by the thought of private schools and only the occasional shift at work. It doesn't really seem a lifestyle worth what is effectively selling your sexual and domestic services to the wealthiest punter.

ComposHat Sun 27-Jan-13 18:40:53

The OP has saddened and angered me in roughly measures.

Blimey I hope your daughter doesn't have any plans of her own, if they don't happen to fit with your 'marry a rich man and then start firing out sprogs'

She may not ever want to marry
She may be gay
She may not want children
She may want to live on a commune
She may find the idea of being in the house with a child to be utterly tedious and want to go back to work as soon as the umbilical cord has been cut.

You do know that even if she does decide to marry, if the poor sod who ends up with you as a mother in law, happens to earn less that your daughter, y'know he could give up work/go part time so that your daughter can continue to work once she has completed maternity leave. It isn't exactly unknown y'know.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 18:41:17

I like the way we never seem to notice that an op is no longer here!
And carry on talking at her!

merlottits, but are you happy in your marriage?

If you encourage your DDs to marry for money, they may not be happy in their marriage.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 18:41:50

One complicating factor is that we can't possibly know how the dd's will feel about their incomes-

merlottits' household by the sounds of it has two earners with an average income and she feels run ragged

when dc were little, dh's income was slightly under average and I had no income at all: I didn't find it particularly stressful because we were still not as poor as I had expected

now we have one average/slightly below income and one well below, and I feel comfortable

Presumably a lot of this is to do with the fact that I am not surrounded by well healed friends.

I can't possibly know how dd will react or what her friends will be like, so trying to make some kind of assumption baseed on what I feel is not terribly productive.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 18:43:52

My mother, who has always lived in houses with large gardens and plenty of storage space, feels dh and I are deprived in our ordinary 3 bedroom semi. Dh and I otoh look around us and see that we have at least as much space as most of our friends do, and more than some. Judging our feelings from hers isn't really getting her anywhere; we just tend to find it irritating.

doyouwantfrieswiththat Sun 27-Jan-13 18:47:30

Perhaps you could provide your daughters with free child care so they can go back to work.

Perhaps you could live as an extended family and they will look after you if you need it when you're older.

motherinferior Sun 27-Jan-13 18:51:32

What are you going to say if your daughters take up with other women who want to be SAHMs?

piprabbit Sun 27-Jan-13 18:51:53

When I met DH, I was at school and he was working as an apprentice engineer.
Then I went to uni and was broke, but he kept on earning (while getting a first class honours degree in engineering on day release).
Then I got a job and my income steadily rose until I was earning more than him.
Then I went part time, and was earning the same as him.
Now I am a SAHM and earn nothing and we rely on DH's moderate income.

I don't think I would give my DD any advice on the income of her husband - there are simply too many variables over a lifetime.

I would advise her to think seriously about her career choice. I did all the things I was meant to do, studied hard, got a good degree, had a professional career for a big company. It is all for nothing and I have no way back into the job market. I would have been better off doing some vocational training and having a lower paid job with much more flexible options over a longer period of time.

It's not my DHs earning power that has let me down, it is being fool enough to think that a big company career was compatible with looking after my own children.

ImperialBlether Sun 27-Jan-13 18:52:14

I think it's silly to just ignore the type of job the man does. It's reasonable to want your child to marry someone who loves his job and who works willingly (ie not an idle bastard) and whose income (with hers) will allow them to make the most of their lives. I'd hate to see either of my children really struggling to make ends meet and to be unable to travel or to go out with friends.

MrsLion Sun 27-Jan-13 18:53:12

VBisme - I do earn a good wage. I am educated to a high level and have a good job. I am perfectly capable of being the breadwinner. In fact I have just gone back to work (last week) and I earn more than dh is currently.

But we also wanted 3 children and dh and I wanted for me to stay home and breastfeed them and look after them rather than going back to work straight away. So in the year I took off (only 14 weeks meagre maternity pay here) we had to choose between me going to work and earning money. Or me staying at home with the DC and dh supporting us financially. 

This was a choice. One we made as a family. 

But, the simple fact is-  it was was a heck of a lot easier, nicer and less stressful for all of us when we did it when dh was earning a lot of money as opposed to when he was not.

Cory- no marrying anyone rich, no matter where they earn their money comes with the risk of bankruptcy, redundancy or sickness changing that income. 

But my argument is, the potential for financial security is an important consideration just like whether that person will be a hands on father or someone who pulls their weight around the home. 

Chunderella Sun 27-Jan-13 18:54:29

Iteotwawki I think your point about consultants not having to sacrifice anything by being married to other consultants might have been in response to me? To be clear, I'm not saying a consultant has to make sacrifices if they marry another high flyer. Just that some higher earners would prefer their spouse to stay at home, and they're more likely to get their wish if their partner is less career focused than they are.

QueenofPlaids Sun 27-Jan-13 18:57:28

iteotwawki You've articulated much better than I what I meant upthread about it being about more than cash.

DP also earns quite a bit less than me (but still a good salary by most people's estimation), but we are equally intelligent (if with different strengths). I could no more deal with a wealthy dimwit than I could a hyper-intelligent financial passenger.

motherinferior Sun 27-Jan-13 18:57:39

I think in all honesty it is simpler to encourage our daughters not to have children. They wreck most aspects of your life, really, and even more so if you feel forced to put up with a high earner who quite probably bores you silly.

Or maybe we should be encouraging our daughters and our sons to change the way employment works so that both parents have equality in the home and in the workplace?

Timetoask Sun 27-Jan-13 19:03:47

Op, I really see your point. If I had daughters I would hope that they would run a mile from men without any ambition, drive and future. I would be careful of not suggesting they they marry a man because of their wealth though.

I hope my DS marries a woman that shares his values in every way, and I sure am going to do my best to make sure that his values are not ruled just by money. If a girl is interested in him just because of any wealth he might accumulate, I really hope he runs a mile).

janey68 Sun 27-Jan-13 19:05:00

I am encouraging my dd and my ds to both aim for work life which they will find satisfying, and which will provide them with a lifestyle which is acceptable to them.

In my naivety I assumed that's what most people do- rather than assume your child will want to rely on someone else to fund their lifestyle.

I find attitudes like the ops quite depressing really. I married my dh Because we love eachother. But then maybe it helped that I developed my own career and kept it going while having a family rather than seeing myself as the second rate earner and dh as the second rate parent

Backtobedlam Sun 27-Jan-13 19:11:46

I cannot believe how many people seem to agree with the OP. I will be encouraging my dd's to enjoy life, to be whatever they want to be and to fall in love with whoever they like! Marrying someone for money is the most awful idea I have ever heard. What if this person becomes sick, loses their job, or has to take a huge pay cut? Do you trade them in for a higher earning model? There is so so much more to life than money! We grew up with not much money but had the most amazing childhood. We spent holidays as a family, my dad was a huge part of our lives. Myself and dh are financially better off, but the trade off is he works away, work always comes first and as a result my children won't have the same happy family memories that I had.

This thread is just so WRONG from so many points of view. There is so much more to life than money and I also bloody well hope that future generations will work out a way to manage families and income generation which doesn't put each parent in such stereotypical roles and under so much pressure.

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 19:22:36

ImperialBlether Sun 27-Jan-13 18:52:14
"I think it's silly to just ignore the type of job the man does. It's reasonable to want your child to marry someone who loves his job and who works willingly (ie not an idle bastard) and whose income (with hers) will allow them to make the most of their lives. I'd hate to see either of my children really struggling to make ends meet and to be unable to travel or to go out with friends."

But who defines "making the most of your life"? Beyond a bottom level where basic human needs for food and shelter are not being met, surely this is entirely subjective?

Who decides that our cheap holidays in France or the UK are less fulfilling than somebody else's holidays in the Maldives? Or that our smallish semi is a less happy place than somebody else's mansion?

Who decides whether dh and my hanging on to a job which pays relatively badly but is what we've always wanted to do is less "making the most of our life" than being able to go out with friends. My job makes me wake up with a smile in the mornings and I don't even particularly like going out with friends.

Is it for me to tell dd that you can't aspire to be an actress (which is the big interest of her life) because chances are you won't be able to travel or go out to expensive restaurants and that is more essential for your happiness? Says who?

Or to the contrary, should I tell her that she can't aspire to a well paid job that isn't what she dreamt of because that is something that would have made me very unhappy? She's not me!

The only sensible advice I have to give to my daugher (or son) is this:

Think about what you want out of life. Don't listen to what others tell you you should want, think about what you actually do want!

exoticfruits Sun 27-Jan-13 19:23:40

You can tell them whatever you like- however I can't imagine why you think they will actually listen to their mothers!!

ImperialBlether Sun 27-Jan-13 19:24:26

If you read what I said properly, you will see I did stress getting a job that you love.

Of course I would prioritise that over a curry!

LessMissAbs Sun 27-Jan-13 19:33:05

More than 1/3 of women who marry will have to deal with divorce. Maybe it would be more realistic to encourage our daughters not to aim for a fairytale but other realistic outcomes too?

If we educate our daughters to be able to work and provide for themselves throughout their lives, and to select a partner on the basis of shared values and ambitions in life, then the problem should be self-solving?

Encouraging women to think like golddiggers is less likely to produce good marital statistics.

I suspect mumsnet has a far higher proportion of SAHMs than society as a whole anyway.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 19:33:19

Backtobedlam, I was pleasantly surprised how few people agreed with her!

QueenofPlaids Sun 27-Jan-13 19:33:54

It is perfectly legitimate to avoid prioritising material wealth in favour of spiritual / a job you love / experiences / whatever.

It is also perfectly legitimate for someone who sees that prioritisation to say 'actually no, that's not the life I want'. That's not grabbing, it's practical and avoids hurt on all sides.

Latara Sun 27-Jan-13 19:36:00

YABU - love is more important than money OP!!

Having said that, if any single Billionaire Oligarches are reading this then do inbox thanks smile

Latara Sun 27-Jan-13 19:39:03

Seriously one friend's hubbie digs holes in roads for a living, another is a security guard, one is a baker, & one is a postman.

My friends are all very working class, struggle for money but are far happier in their marriages than some wealthier couples i know of.

FutureMum Sun 27-Jan-13 19:41:20

I think YABU (very). Sounds like something from centuries ago, when women couldn't easily earn their own living and had to depend on relatives to support them. I think allowing yourself to fall in love with someone because of the size of their wallet is inmoral and in my more radical, young days, I would have considered it to be a distant relative of prostitution. I think you ought to marry the person who is going to make you happy, encourage you to grow as a person through life and potentially be a good parent. Their wage package (especially in these days of redundancies, etc.) is meaningless in this context, as long as they want to do something with their time and they are not idling their life away. So being a house parent, a nurse, a volunteer or a business person, all fine by me - just as long as the other half truly loves you and support you. I have a DD and I would never encourage her to only love someone who can give her a more comfortable lifestyle. Yes, there may be challenges ahead, but if you are supported, you can overcome stuff...

cory Sun 27-Jan-13 19:44:07

Yes, Imperial, but you did also imply that the ability to travel and go out was something you would hate to see your children do without.

I am saying, that would depend entirely on the child and what they wanted out of life.

For me, to marry dh was absolutely the most important thing. Nothing mattered more than that. Secondly, that we should both be able to stay in our profession even if it didn't pay was very important. Having to struggle to make ends meet, not being able to travel or go out really didn't matter to us, because of the people we were. People are all different.

chandellina Sun 27-Jan-13 19:54:53

My dh's ridiculously high pay has held back my career, because my ridiculously relatively low pay means I'm the one who can work a four day week and who has turned down other opportunities because the hours would make childcare difficult. It's a bit of a poisoned chalice to have a high earning partner, though I fully appreciate not having to worry about money and having choices.

I have more education, expertise and passion for my work but he's on the gravy train so I sacrifice some of my ambition.

chandellina Sun 27-Jan-13 19:59:47

I married only for love though in any case, I made more money when I met dh and I didn't give it much thought. I think you just want your child to marry someone solvent who can contribute financially.

IfNotNowThenWhen Sun 27-Jan-13 20:02:53

I will be encouraging my son to do what he loves, and, if he has dc, to fight for equal parental leave and be a good father.
I will also encourage him to marry a woman (or man) who wants to share responsibility for the breadwinning and the child rearing.

MoominmammasHandbag Sun 27-Jan-13 20:08:39

Well I shacked up with someone who was a bit of a waster and crap with money 'cos I was madly in love with him. Career wise I was a high flier, he was a lab technician. My more calculating friends were horrified. I resigned myself to never being loaded.
When we had DC1 I fell madly in love with him too and had a meltdown over going back to work. DP stepped up to the plate, found a work ethic I'd never imagined he posessed, got a job in sales where his considerable charm paid dividends and eventually started his own company. We are now fortuate to be quite wealthy and I got to be a SAHM for as long as I wanted.
And none of the so called high earners carefully picked by some of my friends earn anywhere near what DP does (and are pretty dull to boot).
I tell my daughters to pick someone kind and do what makes them happy.

MummytoKatie Sun 27-Jan-13 20:15:06

The thing is that we are all, to some extent, trapped by our circumstances - especially once we have children.

Op's midwife-consultant-wife friend is trapped only doing the odd shift here and there because even if she had wanted to go all out, work full time and get to the top of her field, with such a high earning husband it would have been difficult to justify him fully doing his share with the children.

I am, and always have been, the higher earner in my marriage. Not by huge sums - I now work 3 days a week and earn just a fraction more than dh does working full time. But I am. I did manage to take the full year of maternity leave with dd and I will again this time when (apparently) ds is born in May. I can also work 3 days a week. It's been possible by the two of us discussing what we want long in advance and making plans to enable it to be so. In our case we spent our 20s overpaying like mad on the mortgage in order to minimise our outgoings long term.

The big advantage of my circumstances is that Lthough I only work 3 days my job is clearly not just a hobby and dh never treats it that way. He does more than his share with illness and pick ups on my working days - and obviously on my non working days I do all of that. So it works out pretty well for us both.

I will be encouraging dd and ds2b to marry someone they can't live without. Because whether you are holidaying in the Maldives or worrying about mortgage rates going up (and we've done both) it is better if you are doing those things with someone you love and who loves you.

I will also encourage them to think about those choices that they have made and their implications lo g before they ttc (if they choose to ttc). So if they are the main earner but want time off then make sure they have enough savings. If they are not the main earner but want to continue with their career to make sure that they are well respected in work so that they will get some flexibility when needed. And to make sure that the person they are ttcing with has the same long term plans and desires that they do.

StripeyBear Sun 27-Jan-13 20:50:33

Oh dear... sorry to disappoint/depress some of you wink

Posters here can be a bit too literal. I wasn't really looking for advice on specific mother-daughter chats with my own off-spring - but using it a framework to think through women's position in the labour market/family, looking back 25 years to when I was a teenager and how I viewed the world, and looking forward another 25 years to when our children might be making similar choices. I really don't think it is akin to suggesting prositution as a valid career path shock grin

Cory I see what you're getting at - but I think the difference is that women have children, and hugely want to be the parent who cares for them. OK, that is a little bit of a generalisation, and I know there are some women who find looking after babies and small children very boring, and they can't wait to return back to work full-time - but they do tend to be the exception - and most mothers limit their work when their children are born. And it's not because they can't afford childcare - really, it isn't. Women want to be with their little babies (even if they dont' breastfeed). And they want to be with them when they are sick too usually - it is a matter of biology.

amillionyears Sun 27-Jan-13 21:03:08

I have noticed that none, or maybe very few, have actually said that they will encourage their DSs to marry high earning women.

op, with respect, the subject headline does not really match what you have just said.
Like someone else has said, are you writing an essay?

Alittlestranger Sun 27-Jan-13 21:04:15

I don't think you're being entirely unreasonable.

For a start people tend to do this anyway, well at least middle class women are unlikely to pair up with someone with considerably lower earning potential.

I think people who respond with "marry for love" have a slightly unrealistic and overly romantic view of marriage. How many people can genuinely say they married the love of their life? There are lots of people we can love deeply, but I do think when people are deciding who they want to commit to they do factor in other issues like shared values, life stage and yes attitude to money. How many people have filtered someone out as "not boyfriend material" because of their career etc? Life is easier if you have a financial cushion, I'm not sure it's horribly materialistic not to take this into account when making massive life choices like marriage.

And incidentally I've seen numerous threads here where posters have been encouraged to leave a partner who is massively in debt. At what point between having £10K on the credit card and £100,000 in the bank does it become acceptable to think about money?

meadow2 Sun 27-Jan-13 21:10:15

Alittlestranger - surely most people marry the love of their life? confused

Alittlestranger Sun 27-Jan-13 21:13:31

Amillionyears I wish more posters would encourage their sons to earn high earning women. Because at the moment a lot of men still unfortunately have issues with a woman they see as higher paid/more intelligent/more ambitious than them.

Alittlestranger Sun 27-Jan-13 21:15:09

Meadow2, I genuinely do wonder if that is the case. I think we marry the person who seems like the best approximation at the time we were ready to do it.

meadow2 Sun 27-Jan-13 21:19:38

I definitely didnt do that, and did marry the love of my life.I am not the kind of person to turn someone down based on their job though.

Willdoitinaminute Sun 27-Jan-13 21:33:44

My mother encouraged my sisters and I to have a career so that we would always be able to support ourselves. She was a very wise woman.
She also told us to marry our best friend.

At no point did she mention money.

One of my sisters and I have always earned more than our DHs. My youngest sis has been critical about this arrangement in the past particularly when my BIL was out of work. She was never worried about living off her own DH when she was out of work though. ( She has no DC)

So many women have double standards regarding income.
Does it really matter who earns what and how the roles are divided in a relationship.

Windsocks Sun 27-Jan-13 21:34:41

It's foolish to pretend that money has no impact on your quality of life. I was never wildly materialistic (ironically something which my DH probably found attractive as he had a lot more financial assets than me before we married and wouldn't have wanted a gold-digger!) BUT if I'm honest I can see that my life is much more easy and comfortable than some of my friends. For example I have choices that they don't have around taking time out from work. (Again this is partly because we don't have a flashy lifestyle.)

That is not the same as saying 'marry for money' but I would be telling my DD honestly that money makes life easier and gives you more choices and freedom. I would encourage her to earn her own money (as I have) but to be aware that she may want time out of work to raise a family / pursue other ambitions - and a DH who has a decent income can make this easier.

Most of all though I would tell her to marry the person who makes her happy, who encourages her and stimulates her as my DH does for me and I for him. I think happiness AND prosperity tends to flow from that kind of mutual support.

LouiseD29 Sun 27-Jan-13 21:42:19

I find this idea of 'choosing a husband' rather curious. I married my husband (who incidentally earns considerably less than I do) because he was the only man I've ever met that I could imagine spending my whole life with. He's unique, incredible and I completely adore him.

By the way some people on this thread are describing it, it sounds as though you went to a shop or chose your husband from a line up. That's why this question from OP makes no sense to me. Of course it's nice to have enough money not to have to worry, but how many people can honestly say they had a choice of two identical men they wanted to marry, the only difference being that one was minted? Erm...

We are expecting our first baby and yes, having to face some choices about income, maternity leave and lifestyle, but I would rather do this with him than laze about in my mansion with any other man in the world.

exoticfruits Sun 27-Jan-13 22:11:03

I agree Louise- I also don't think it is anything to do with your parents! The last thing I would have wanted from my mother was cosy little chats about what I should want from life! She chose for herself and I chose for myself- money was unimportant. I think that you need someone who sees it in a similar way, e.g a thrifty person is going to have a problem with person who throws it around, but beyond that other things are far more important.

GeorginaWorsley Sun 27-Jan-13 22:12:14

Someone upthread questioned if mechanics could possibly earn less than nurses.
As a nurse if I worked full time I would earn more than £30 K so it is indeed very possible that mechanic would earn less.

StripeyBear Sun 27-Jan-13 22:49:03

amillionyears essay writing - gosh no! Just a SAHM with too much thinking time on my hands whilst kneading all that bread and ironing sheets and stuff shock

Permanentlyexhausted Sun 27-Jan-13 23:07:42

I will suggest to my DD that she marries (or not) whomever she wishes to marry regardless of his (her?) potential pay packet. After all, money can't buy you happiness. Better to just be happy.

Besides which there are some major advantages to being the higher earner in a household.

SomeKindOfDeliciousBiscuit Sun 27-Jan-13 23:15:24

I think Jane Austen had it right - turn down the fabulously wealthy dickhead for being a dickhead. But once he's shown he isn't a dickhead really, and he adores you and is (presumably) well fit, well, it doesn't hurt that he's fabulously wealthy.

Seriously though, you can't bank on anything. Your daughters need to be able to support themselves and their children/husbands should life nor go to plan. And you can't tell when you snog a gorgeous young man at a party if he's going to be a sound engineer like he says or will turn out to be a company director before he's 30 so you can be a jammy sahm.

andtheycalleditbunnylove Sun 27-Jan-13 23:32:52

there's no harm in trying. but daughters choose where they will and you'd be lucky if yours chose as well as mine!

PigletJohn Sun 27-Jan-13 23:37:03

Surely no woman should contemplate marriage if she is not in a position to maintain her future husband in proper style?

Anyway, how do you know Mr Moneybags will not lose his job? Whether you're a commodities trader or a horse-shoe forger, you can't know what the future holds. Same goes for him.

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 01:16:49

Well, what I've learned from this thread is that high warn

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 01:23:24

what I've learned from this thread is that high earning men are arrogant pricks who don't do anything domestic and low earning men are caring souls who'll be much better at the childcare. No generalisations there then?
I suppose it makes you fee better if you're married to a low earner, to imagine that you may have less money and less freedom to spend time with your kids growing up, (and no option to be sahm whatsoever) but at least you're not with a controlling prick on a 6 figure salary who doesn't change nappies? Because obviously the choice is love or money. Impossible to have both.

SomeKindOfDeliciousBiscuit Mon 28-Jan-13 02:45:43

hannahssister I don't think anyone has been so pointlessly simplistic. I made the point that if you marry young you have no clear indicator of how your lives will turn out, so you should just go for a partner you like.

Pennybubbly Mon 28-Jan-13 05:03:36

But OP, it seems that the fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you are equating money with happiness.
While the majority of people would agree it would be nice to have a pretty penny in the bank, it in no way follows that just because you do, you'll be happy. By the same token, you could quite easily be as poor as a church mouse but startingly happy with your lot. Or you could be rich and happy, or poor and unhappy. Or start off rich, and end up poor, start off happy, end up unhappy. And all the other combinations in between.
It's not quite as easy as saying 'marry someone in your own income bracket daughter, and you'll be onto a winner'.

HollyBerryBush Mon 28-Jan-13 06:20:15

I would say intellectual parity was more a guide to a happy relationship - it rarely works out if the woman is brighter than her partner, whereas men are often pictured with 'eye-candy' (who may or may not be dim, but they certainly get traded in fora younger model which may not happen if they were intellectually equal).

Common values and goals is another 'keeper'. Lovely having a romance with a wandering minstrel, but frankly, if he's still in his 40's strumming a guitar thinking he's going to make the big time by playing in pubs and doing hte odd stint as a session musiscian, then he's not going to be providing a roof for the family.

As 70% of relationships start at work, it would be fair to assume the OP has sunconciously stumbled up on the fact that usually like-marries-like.

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 07:53:55

"Cory I see what you're getting at - but I think the difference is that women have children, and hugely want to be the parent who cares for them. OK, that is a little bit of a generalisation, and I know there are some women who find looking after babies and small children very boring, and they can't wait to return back to work full-time - but they do tend to be the exception - and most mothers limit their work when their children are born. And it's not because they can't afford childcare - really, it isn't. Women want to be with their little babies (even if they dont' breastfeed). And they want to be with them when they are sick too usually - it is a matter of biology."

Speak for yourself. In my and dh's family, the men have tended to feel the same. FIL and db were SAHDs; dh and I shared the childcare in the first year. It's not because the women in our family are bored with babies- just that the men aren't either! grin

I think it is very much about how involved the father is from the moment of birth. Dh changed ds's nappies and washed him before I did, so bonded with him just as quickly. Db was more hands-on than SIL.

I have noticed that more Swedish men seem involved in intimate baby care than British ones, and that it is very rare to hear a Swedish woman say you can't trust her husband with a baby. Which suggests it is not entirely about biology...

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 07:57:31

I don't think anyone is suggesting that money has no impact on life.

Just that the impact will matter from person to person and that you can't make predictions about how much is necessary for anybody else's happiness.

amillionyears Mon 28-Jan-13 08:03:21

I would have to agree about encouraging dads to be very hands on, right from the off.
Not going to explain the circumstances of my first pregnancy, but my DH and others could see that I needed help. So they did. Which means he has always joked that he did as much as I did, including breast feeding!

Molehillmountain Mon 28-Jan-13 08:05:41

The thing is, by giving rules about who to fall in love with or not, our dc might end up missing the people who are best for them. If you are with the wrong person, you won't appreciate money if you have it and of you're with the wrong person and between you you have very little money, you'll resent that too. Of course, some people apparently hit the jackpot by having a happy partnership with wads of cash! Ah well.

Bonsoir Mon 28-Jan-13 08:13:56

OP - you are absolutely right about women's standard of living. The surest way by far for women to have a nice lifestyle is to marry well. That may be unpalatable to some, but it doesn't make it untrue smile

Have you factored into this "nice lifestyle" the women whose husbands leave them, or have endless affairs, or are physically or financially abusive?

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 08:17:35

My mother only ever gave me one piece of Life Advice. Which I promptly ignored. It was: Never marry an Englishman, they have such ugly children.

For the record, dd and ds are stunning.

Mothers don't know everything. smile

Bonsoir Mon 28-Jan-13 08:19:30

The women who I know who have a nice lifestyle nearly all have kind, reasonable partners. The very few who are divorced from seemingly nice men get loads of maintenance and had a large settlement - their lives are not a struggle.

There are lots of train crash couples and train crash divorces, but the lifestyle was never nice...

And it depends on your definition of nice lifestyle". I don't want to be a SAHM.

Bonsoir Mon 28-Jan-13 08:27:47

Nice lifestyle doesn't equate to SAHM.

Completely agree. i thought that was what you were saying - that a nice lifestyle was SAHM, lots of children etc

Bonsoir Mon 28-Jan-13 08:44:38

A nice lifestyle is a clean, warm, comfortable home, decent food at regular times, enough money for appropriate clothing and interesting things to do.

SnowBusiness Mon 28-Jan-13 08:57:55

Putting a tremulous hand up here but my neighbours, friends and I all have lovely life styles (for which I am very grateful!). Most of the women work part time or freelance and appear to have lovely husbands, who are into the kids, helping out and happily supporting the family. The one arse of a husband going through an epic MLC was always a selfish bastard, admits his wife. She's so annoyed with herself for confusing his walk over anyone attitude with ambition as she knows plenty of successful men now, who obviously had the capability to succeed without being wankers.

As we're early 40's there is plenty of scope for more of these seemingly lovely men to derail their families but, the one previously divorced one I know, was more than generous with his first wife. So much so, the second wife is good friends with her and the second marriage's children go and stay at the Ex W home occasionally.

We are not in nirvana and that's why, when i first discovered MN, I was truly shocked to the core of what can happen in relationships.

wordfactory Mon 28-Jan-13 09:00:56

I very much hope that both my DD and my DS have careers that can potentially make them financially comfortable. I very much hope they both marry partners with the same potential.

This will allow flexibility in their relationships...a huge factor in happiness no?

I do not want either of my DC to be forced into a situation where they cannot be the main breadwinner if necessary, or forced into a situation where they have to be either. Both partners need to be able to take up the baton.

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 09:06:34

Bonsoir Mon 28-Jan-13 08:44:38
"A nice lifestyle is a clean, warm, comfortable home, decent food at regular times, enough money for appropriate clothing and interesting things to do. "

But surely we can agree that appropriate clothing and interesting things to do not mean the same for every person?

I am sure if you had to wear what seems quite appropriate clothing for me, you wouldn't want to leave the house at all. What I think of as interesting things to do is different from what somebody else thinks. Dh is one of those people whose emotional needs can be filled on a very limited income, because so many of the things that make him deeply satisfied don't happen to cost a lot.

I have known very happy people who were very well off and very happy people who were not well off: it all seems to depend on whether you have a reasonable level for your own levels of comfort. (and of course on other factors, such as the happiness of relationships etc)

Some people can even enjoy the challenge of making ends meet- which is not the same as hopeless poverty, that I doubt anybody enjoys.

For my mother, scraping and saving for a holiday abroad was part of the fun; she was a good housekeeper and enjoyed exercising those skills. She wouldn't have been happier with the kind of lifestyle where holidays came without an effort.

But there are plenty of people who would just have found it frustrating.

I have no idea what kind of person dd is going to turn into. So I wouldn't even give her advice- not even on the choice of nationalitites to maximise reproductive beauty.

StripeyBear Mon 28-Jan-13 09:21:33

Cory of course there are always exceptions, and I suppose there must be some men who would prefer to be SAHDs, though they are unusual.

OK - one more time with feeling..... Perhaps I need to rephrase my argument. My starting point is this: born in the 70s, as a student of feminist thought, my "conventional wisdom" was that women needed to be educated and career focused, and earn sufficient money to provide for themselves and their children. I would have said - you can't reply on marrying some rich git - suppose he leaves you, beats you, has affairs with the gardener etc etc.

Now, looking about me at how things have worked out for my friends and I (now we are all getting on), I would say - the world of work is not the easiest place for someone who wants to combine parenting and work, and that as mothers overwhelmingly are the parents that limit their careers, we tended to be a bit screwed. So, if you want a comfortable lifestyle (and money does buy comfort and choice), it is well to enter parenting with a partner who earns as much as you.

I thought the interesting point that came out of the discussion was around the balance of childcare responsibilities.
I think it is indisputable that mothers currently take the lead parent role - I know fathers can do it, but it is not the current norm. You rarely meet a f/t mum with a p/t DH for example. I might be swayed on how much of this is cultural and how much is biological - I do think there is something very deeply biological about bonding with mothers - the natural weaning age worldwide is something like 4 years old - which sorts of suggest that mothers are meant to have a big role in raising small children. However who knows how much scope there is for creating new cultural norms... anyway... interesting discussion - thanks

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 09:31:34

You are right Stripey. Women on here argue all the time that there should be total equality between Mothers and Fathers, but overwhelmingly, whether she's got a Phd of handful of GCSE's it's the Mother who wants to spend more time at home with the children in those early years. If a man could get pregnant, carry baby in his belly, give birth, breastfed And take a years maternity leave, that might be different.
Of course, the vocal minority who do work full time and love it will say the opposite ad Infinitum on Mumsnet

wordfactory Mon 28-Jan-13 09:32:00

stripey I think it is an interesting debate, and certainly one that I think about a lot.

When DD asks me about these things (she's 13) I tell her she should aim to forge her own career, but when the time comes to choose a partner, she should try to ensure that he is in a position to take on financial responsibility should that become necessary and/or desirable. Shpuld she want to or need to be able to take a career break, she will need a partner who can facilitate that.

To be fair, I tell my DS the same though! I would hate it if he had no choice in life.

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 09:33:11

Shite typing sorry, I'm on my phone with crappy predictive text etc

Bonsoir Mon 28-Jan-13 09:34:03

Job-sharing always has its pitfalls, and being the family lynchpin (which is what SAHMs have always tended to be) is no exception.

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Mon 28-Jan-13 09:34:24

I agree to a certain extent and wished I'd thought about it a bit more.
I want to give my son a better more financial secure start then I Grew up in. But unfortunately that's not how it's ended up.
I'm truly truly blissfully happy but the uncertain future really is a constant worry. Then I look at other people (first mistake!) who have married 'well' who don't have that concern.
But I don't for one second think they are happier then me.

tackies Mon 28-Jan-13 09:34:35

I first off want my daughter to marry someone who loves her, looks after her, loves their kids and treats her good. Secondly , Im hoping and working towards raising my daughter that education matters , and that obviously getting a good career is a good thing, so if she chooses someone in that line thats great, but if she chooses someone who has a low paid job , its her choice as long as he treats her like i said above I dont mind at all, it could be that she ends up with a low paid job! and Id hope it would work vice versa.

PrettyKitty1986 Mon 28-Jan-13 09:37:54

I think giving your children 'conditions' on who to marry full stop is ridiculous tbh and I can never get my head around how people think like that.
I want my ds's to be happy. Should they be happiest being a surgeon or a bin man, that's fine by me. I would hope that they'll both have the sense to avoid any girl that's been coached in the art of husband hunting by her mother.

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 09:38:35

there was a recent study which showed that a tiny tiny minority of women want to work full time. So when we talk about so called 'choices' we should remember that many women don't choose to work full time when they have babies. They have no other choice. I married my husband young before he was a high earner. But looking at my life now and how it was 15 years ago, I'd much rather a high earning partner. It's a no brainer. Having money vs having little money? I hope my daughters marry for love first, obviously. (But will be secretly hoping they marry a well educated, well paid man too, because I expect them to be well educated and well paid and hopefully to have the choice to be sahm's if they want)

" Bonsoir

A nice lifestyle is a clean, warm, comfortable home, decent food at regular times, enough money for appropriate clothing and interesting things to do."
So surely the surest way for women to have this is to be in a position to provide it themselves

Bonsoir Mon 28-Jan-13 09:43:11

Actually, no! The statistics are very clear - it is very hard indeed for women to provide all that for themselves.

ShephardsDelight Mon 28-Jan-13 10:03:12

No if you make money a pre determining factor the marriage will always be meaningless.

mindosa Mon 28-Jan-13 10:20:03

I would always encourage my daughters to have their financial independence - for their own self esteem and for their ability to provide for themselves in the future.

In terms of what their future partners may earn, I would encourage them to marry someone kind, loving, responsible and generous. The idea that they must have a certain amount of money would not cross my mind.

However I would expect that my daughters will be university educated (both DH and I are to masters level) and I would guess that they will meet someone with a similar qualifications and potential earning power because that tends to be how life goes - you are attracted to people similar to you and you meet people who move in the same circles.

Whether they choose to take their foot off the pedal (as I did) when they have children will be up to them.

tintin1969 Mon 28-Jan-13 10:23:59

Why does she have to marry at all? did i miss something...

Lambzig Mon 28-Jan-13 10:29:48

I would always want my DD to earn her own way. Besides people's financial circumstances change. When I married my DH I earned twice as much as him. Now eight years later, he earns more than three times my salary.

Presumably anyone can get made redundant, lose their business, become ill and earning can disappear, not to mention divorce. Even more important for woman to have financial independence

SnowBusiness Mon 28-Jan-13 10:36:01

tintin getting married isn't unusual at all, in fact amongst my very well educated girlfriends, there is only one who isn't and she wants to be, so I'm not sure what you think you've missed.

SnowBusiness Mon 28-Jan-13 10:37:16

In fact there's two, but one is co-habiting with a child and is banging her head that she didn't marry him as her rights are so limited should she break up with the father. She works full time.

nappyaddict Mon 28-Jan-13 10:38:41

"So the nurse who married the mechanic is run ragged with extra shifts, juggling small kids in a tiny house with a large mortgage, indifferent schools and holidays in Haven or not at all -"

Are the salary of a nurse and the salary of a mechanic not similar?

Evangelinadreamer Mon 28-Jan-13 10:53:31

I'd say the nurse, if full time, would out earn the mechanic. Nurses at a senior level earn in excess of 40k per year. A mechanic wouldn't earn that unless self employed I doubt

idshagphilspencer Mon 28-Jan-13 12:31:11

The Jeremy Vine show is discussing this very subject today hmm

FlouncingMintyy Mon 28-Jan-13 12:57:22

How very strange hmm

idshagphilspencer Mon 28-Jan-13 13:04:40

Quite Mintyy grin

Mintyy, why are you flouncing?

in general,where is the evidence that women struggle to earn enough money for a comfortable life?

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 13:31:56

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 09:31:34
"You are right Stripey. Women on here argue all the time that there should be total equality between Mothers and Fathers, but overwhelmingly, whether she's got a Phd of handful of GCSE's it's the Mother who wants to spend more time at home with the children in those early years. If a man could get pregnant, carry baby in his belly, give birth, breastfed And take a years maternity leave, that might be different. "

So do you suppose adoptive mothers do not bond with their children, because they have not carried them in the womb and breastfed them?

And are you unaware that there are countries in the world with more generous parental leave?

feelokaboutit Mon 28-Jan-13 13:36:53

Have not read all of the thread but just wanted to add my twopence worth - sorry if discussion has moved on! I think we should be encouraging our daughters to be financially independent at all times so that no matter whether their relationships work out or not, they are never trapped at home having to put up with a crap marriage because they have no other option. By all means get married but don't give away your autonomy - I dearly wish I hadn't given mine away sad.

Latara Mon 28-Jan-13 13:38:59

Mentioned upthread was the fact that many of us don't have a 'line-up' of potential husbands to choose from!

Finding a man just to be a boyfriend is a challenge.

Income is the last thing i care about - own hair, teeth & no addictions with a normal, nice personality is difficult enough to find around here!!

Absy Mon 28-Jan-13 13:42:56

OP, YABVU

I've met some of these girls (actually, a few) who are merely after a paypacket, not a man and it is quite hideous - I'm amazed that they ever DO get married as they're so scheming (e.g. one who swore that she would HAVE to be married by 25 to someone hideously wealthy, is still single and pushing 30s. Guys will flirt with her but don't want to be saddled with someone so materialistic). One also eyed up DH - BITCH DON'T EVEN. But anyway, that's beside the point.

Someone who starts their career potentially as a good earner, could end up losing their job and in a low paid role. Or, you could marry a high earner you never see and end up with all the pressure of having to raise children on your own.

Also, I do know many men who would actually quite like to be SAHDs - my brother said to my recently that he wished it had been an option for him (he always outearned SIL quite significantly) and now the DCs are teenagers, it's less likely it will ever happen

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 13:43:41

Wonder where posters are who think it so rare for women to earn a comfortable income. My university is full of female professors, heads of departments etc, many of whom have offspring.

Latara Mon 28-Jan-13 13:46:38

I did earn a comfortable income as a Staff Nurse until i became very unwell; now i'm working PT as an HCA because of MH problems; not much i can do about it.

I'm single & every bill is a struggle tbh - i still wouldn't want an unhappy marriage to a higher earning man though, or to 'settle' - although i'm beginning to weaken in my ideals.... sad

mirry2 Mon 28-Jan-13 13:49:30

I hope she will marry/live with someone who wants to work. I certainly don't want her to keep him.

Chandon Mon 28-Jan-13 13:50:17

The idea of all the people " encouragin their daughters to marry up" brings to mind hordes of Bridget Jones' Mothers!!!

You deluded fools, how many of you have followed YOUR mothers' advice n whom to fall in love with?!
Well?!

lovelyladuree Mon 28-Jan-13 13:51:20

If my daughter wants to marry a very poor woman, then I won't discourage it if they truly love each other. Twattish OP.

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 14:03:50

Do we have any statistics on how easy it is for a woman to marry a high earning man? wink

I have a kind of impression that most women don't pull that one off either.

<mental image of dd wailing "but mum, all these wealthy men don't want to marry me, how do I make them?">

thefudgeling Mon 28-Jan-13 14:05:28

Imagine having to go on a HAVEN holiday! How AWFUL!!!!

ethelb Mon 28-Jan-13 14:10:14

OP, if your low earning friends had decided to take jobs that earned more, then they wouldn't have been as dependent on their other halves, or their husbands may have stayed at home to look after the children instead of them.

Women staying home to look after children is not a given.

StripeyBear Mon 28-Jan-13 14:22:37

I think the point ethelb and cory is that most women want to stay at home with their kids, or certainly women want to in higher numbers than men. I would say it was a function of biology - I carried my baby and feel differently about her to her Dad - even though he is a hands-on involved Dad. I'm not saying you have to be the biological mother to have that bond - I am sure I could generate similiar feelings towards an adoptee, and I am equally sure that if I had died in childbirth, DH would have stepped up to the mark to play my role as best as he could. However, these extreme events aside, mostly it is the mother who is the principal parent, who makes the career sacrifice for her children.

greencolorpack Mon 28-Jan-13 14:27:10

Aside from anything else, how do you know your dds fiancé will earn a lot or a little? When I married, my dh was a student and I supported him, then he supported me with a good career, then he moved and was unemployed and I supported him and now he is temping, hasn't got much of a career at the moment but at least is employed and is bringing in good pay and if need be if he is unemployed I could support us both. My point is the idea of a career path, going into work at 18 and staying til retirement and the pocket watch is a life from another era. Encourage dd to get a career herself, encourage her to marry a man who is good with money and has a good sense of responsibility and then just let them get on with it.

ethelb Mon 28-Jan-13 14:28:04

mostly it is the mother who is the principal parent, who makes the career sacrifice for her children

Not in my experience it is not. It wasn't until i went to uni I realised that some mothers stopped working when their children were born in the 1980s. Yes I was v naive, but it really, really isn't a given.

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 14:34:40

But even of this is the case, Stripeybear, most of us only have two or three children, so that is still a number of years in which you could get your career established pre-dc and get it back on its feet post-dc. It is even possible for a high earning couple to save up money before children to cover parental leave.

So why would I not encourage my dd to think about her own career and self-sufficiency? And what lengths would you go to to get a high earning man to marry you? Supposing you don't find one you fancy? Supposing you don't find one that fancies you? At least with a qualification, you know you've got it.

As I said before, a large number of successful academics in my field are women with children. They typically take some time out when their children are little and then blaze on with their careers for 20-30 years until retirement.

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 14:57:29

I am utterly baffled by the number of posts on this thread making a clear association between abusive partners and high earning partners. Low earning or unemployed partners are just as capable of controlling, twattish behaviour as high earners, ffs.

Viviennemary Mon 28-Jan-13 15:02:59

I think you can be unhappy even if you are very rich. But nevertheless it is hard if you have to worry about every penny and having enough to eat and pay the bills. And I don't mean some ideas of poverty you see here but I mean really struggling on not very much money. It's OK short term but in the long term it can be soul destroying.

Well I certainly wasn't

StripeyBear Mon 28-Jan-13 15:39:03

LOL @ the way the thread is going... I wasn't really suggesting a life-plan of meet-rich-bloke-and-marry-him Cory Obviously it makes sense to get the best education you can (and there are many reasons to wish to be educated beyond simply earning money anyway) and it is clearly better to establish yourself in a career that is rewarding and interesting. I'm merely thinking through the implications of marrying someone with lower earning potential than yourself.

If you think about my 2 friends - both went to uni, spent some time establishing their careers - both had some fun doing that and married in their mid-late 20s. I like both the husbands - they are nice people, both are good Dads - but one had just graduated medical school when they got together - and the other is a mechanic with no real formal qualification. Both families have 3 kids, ranging between 6 and 1. The one married to the doctor has continued to work (just to keep her hand in). I think both of my girlfriends would earn c. £35k FTE - but within the context of better-off family budget it doesnt' really matter if she works or not, as her husband's salary covers their outgoings. They have a 5 bedroom house - so a room each for all the children - it also has a larder and a playroom - I mention that cos I'm bloody jealous - lol... She does have a busy life - and she does pick up the majority of the childcare - and 3 small children are hardly a walk in the park - but she has a pretty good life.

My friend who married the mechanic - well he doesn't earn much - about £24K f/t - she works 2/3 of full-time - so her £24K earnings are essential to the household. She doesn't want to work this much. Her health ain't great and her pgs have been difficult, but there really is no choice. They live in a 2 bed house - they were always intending to trade up, but the property market stagnated and like a lot of people they got trapped. The "baby" is still in with them. They moved their mortgage to interest only, so feel it is no better than renting, but with none of the flexibility. My friend is often in tears because she is tired and fed up. Her middle DD has special needs, and is hard to place with a childminder - so the parents try to juggle care between themselves - which is exhausting and a nightmare.

I suppose you could say it is a temporary situation. Both women are now in their early 30s - it will be nearly 5 years before the youngest is at school - nearer to a decade before the children are perhaps old enough for the mothers to return full focus to their careers. I suppose you could even say they are lucky that they are keeping their hand in. What you can definitely say though is, that these two women, with very similar paths and capacities themselves, are having a very different experience of parenthood.

It's not about taking responsiblity for yourself - or self-sufficiency - or marrying someone you love... both friends did that...

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 15:50:36

But your friend's problems are primarily to do with her and her child's health.

What if it had been her dh's health instead of her own which had been too poor to allow for fulltime work? Or can that only happen to wives?

Should we not also be telling our sons that they have to marry a woman with higher earning potential in case their own health gives way?

NameGotLostInCyberspace Mon 28-Jan-13 16:01:41

Haven't read whole thread but

Who said romance was dead?

StripeyBear Mon 28-Jan-13 16:09:02

I must have explained it badly Cory - her problems are to do with her lack of money. She would like to work less. She would have liked to have given up work when she was 30 weeks pg, but she couldn't afford to, because the household was dependent on her income. She would have liked to have taken longer maternity leave, but she couldn't afford to, because the household needed her back at work to pay bills. Her life is worse because of her lack of money - not her minor health probs, and her DD's (relatively minor) needs. Everyone might have these minor difficulties - the problem arises because she has nothing in reserve to help her deal with them sad

So if her car breaks down, or she is sick and misses her shift allowance payment, or the boiler or fridge start to leak or ..... it is a major disaster...

ethelb Mon 28-Jan-13 16:16:19

The problem is Stipey that is becomes self-fulfilling. Do you really want to go back to the dark ages where women who worked were 'taking a job away from a father' or men got paid more as they had to 'support a family'.

Lots of women earn less due to discrimation in their industry and therefor have to stay at home, I don't think it should be the other way around iyswim?

thebody Mon 28-Jan-13 16:18:12

I tell my dds to marry the first time for money and the second time for love.

StripeyBear Mon 28-Jan-13 16:45:25

I don't think that's the issue at all Ethel. In a capitalist market place, different individuals can command different rates for their salaries - it's about who you hook up with and their estimatable earning potential. It's not about gendered pay discrimination at all - the same would apply if you were a lesbian looking to raise children with another woman?

janey68 Mon 28-Jan-13 16:52:40

I think my dh would be highly offended at the notion that I am the 'principal' parent and he takes second fiddle.
Ok it's a biological fact that women actually give birth, but in terms of actual parenting and ^ nurturing^ do people really believe, in 2013, that parents aren't equal? hmm
I actually feel quite sorry for men whose partners feel this way, Because I think many many dads would relish the chance to be more hands on and involved rather than being pigeon holed into the 'provider' role.

PigletJohn Mon 28-Jan-13 17:14:35

Stripey

if she had married a prosperous person, who then lost his job, or went bankrupt, or ran off with the milkman, or died, or got a severe disease, she would still (probably) be hard up.

Anyway, there aren't enough prosperous single men to go round, are there? Are we talking about the highest-paid 5%? Of which, the ones between say 25 and 85 45?

What does that leave? 2% of the population, of whom half are men? And how many are single?

IWantAnotherBaby Mon 28-Jan-13 17:15:39

While this all sounds rather cynical to many, I think there is a lot in it. I earn 5 times what my DH earns. He has no ambition whatsoever, and has been perfectly happy in his job for years. It does have the advantage of being very flexible so he can work full time and still do some school runs etc. I work full time in a very demanding job and take additional work when I can. I wish I didn't have to work so hard, and I would love to have been able to spend longer at home with my children, but I simply do not have that option.

I always assumed in my youth that everyone was ambitious; it always amazed me that DH didn't want to do more, or to earn more. I was brought up (and educated expensively), to earn well, not to 'marry well', and I am fortunate that I do earn very well. But my life would be a good deal easier, less stressful, and more pleasant overall, if less rested on my earnings. Many of my school friends (well known public school) married wealthy men who were within our school social circle anyway. Most of my uni friends (med school) married other doctors. I married rather blindly, for love, and I wish I had appreciated younger how important money can be. Frankly I wish I had married a more ambitious and higher-earning man; my life would be worlds different!

cantspel Mon 28-Jan-13 17:20:01

what a depressing thread.

Why dont you just encourage your daughters to be high class prostitutes. Good money and work the hours that suit them. Ok they might have to shag a creep or 2 but at least he will be a rich creep.

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 17:22:50

But Stripey, you said yourself that her money problems are related to her health problems and her consequent inability to work full time.

And as I pointed out, there is no guarantee that it will not be the husband who develops health problems instead.

What I, and many others, object to is the assumption that a man will always be in a state to keep a woman, but a woman doesn't have to be able to keep a man, because she can always rely on the man to do that. Husbands fall ill, have accidents, die, just like wives do.

janey68 Mon 28-Jan-13 17:24:58

Iwantanotherbaby- but by your logic, if you had married a high earning ambitious man, you wouldn't be matching him in aspirations and earnings. You'd use it as your 'get out' card to take a step back, have less pressure yourself and work less.
In other words, you'd expect your dh to provide what you are currently resenting providing! Where's the logic? Unless of course you have some outdated notion that the husband should have to shoulder that burden?

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 17:26:47

what janey said

Daddelion Mon 28-Jan-13 17:30:14

I think mechanics are getting a hard time on this thread.

If women stop marrying mechanics would that mean men would stop being mechanics or they'd only be gay mechanics? Imagine the drama.

Obviously women can't be mechanics they're too busy rich husband hunting.

But if there's a shortage of mechanics, then their salaries will go up, supply and demand and all that.

So in conclusion. Does it really matter?

Weissbier Mon 28-Jan-13 17:35:47

OP, even if it is true most women want to stay home with their kids, that isn't relevant because you have no way of knowing if your daughters will feel that way - I don't, so there's at least one counter example. Surely it would be more universally constructive to teach them about the realities of the choices open to them - working, not working - and encourage them to be clear-minded about their priorities and their implications? To make informed decisions and take responsibility for them? If you want to have a comfy life without working, if this is a top priority for you, maybe it's not so stupid to marry a rich guy. But if you want a high-flying career, it might be really cunning to marry someone who is happy to stay at home and look after the kids. Or maybe you would kind of rather stay home, but decide not to because of the risks involved to you if your husband decides to run off with his secretary twenty years down the line. Or maybe your daughter will want kids with a woman, who should be the higher earner then? This balance is for everyone to decide individually, and who knows, maybe every so often love has something to do with it all too. Moreover, I struggle to see how teaching children of either sex to rely on others is a positive thing to do. YABU.

soverylucky Mon 28-Jan-13 17:41:47

I don't care what my dd's husbands do as long as they love them with all their heart, are faithfull to them, respect them and that my dd's feel the same way about them.

StripeyBear Mon 28-Jan-13 17:50:01

Cory >But Stripey, you said yourself that her money problems are related to her healh problems and her consequent inability to work full time.

I don't see it like that - I don't think it is unusual to have minor health problems in pregnancy... the problem for my friend is that as her wage is vital to the household she can't slow down! In her last pg, she was working long hours on top of being pregnant and bf-ing a young baby, and looking after a toddler. Her idea would be to be at home and concentrate totally on being a SAHM. I think it would be slightly easier if her pregnancies had been totally problem free - but most ladies have some issue or other.

poshfrock Mon 28-Jan-13 17:53:35

When I married my first husband he was earning about £50k (double my then earnings) and had the potential to go far in his career ( earnings of £100k not unusual). But he suffered mental health problems, had a full blown nervous breakdown whilst I was on maternity leave and so I had to return to work full-time to support all 3 of us rather than the 3/4 days I had planned. I was also doing the majority of the household chores as his illness prevented him from contributing.
The marriage eventually failed and I then married again. DH no 2 was working in the construction industry for cash in hand jobs so his income was low and irregular. But I had an established career and supported us both and expected to continue to do so. Scroll forward 12 years and he now has a public sector role where his pay equals mine and his pension is worth 10 times what I have. He expects promotion in the next 12/18 months so will earn £5k+ more than me. Coupled with this his shift pattern is such that he can do the school run on average 3 days a week and cook most nights. Today he has made cakes with our DCs when they got in from school and he is ironing as I type.

You cannot base a decision to marry on earnings or earning potential. I married for love both times and life gave me very different results.

janey68 Mon 28-Jan-13 17:59:35

Really striped? most women have issues with pregnancy? I'd be interested to see the figures to back that assertion up.
I agree that some women have pregnancy related health issues, and a lot of women get more tired and have some nausea in the early stages- but really, pregnancy is a normal state of affairs and I think it would be a real retrograde step if we bring our daughters up to feel that they are delicate flowers who need to take to their beds during pregnancy. And I certainly don't intend to raise either my dd or my ds to assume that as adults he'll work and she won't!

StripeyBear Mon 28-Jan-13 18:00:58

Janey I am definitely the principal parent. I was the pg one, gave birth and breastfeed. I'm the one who made career sacrifices to spend time parenting. I am the one who makes most of the everyday parenting decisions (like should they go to Jo Jingles or Wiggle and Giggle). I do most of the food prep - buy most of the clothes... am the one who is called for when they are sick.

And that is the common scenario - I only know one other family where the principal parent is male.

I think you are being a bit tough on Iwantanotherbaby The problem is, when you have a man who can't pull his weight financially, he usually won't be principal parent. He certianly won't be the pg one or doing night feeds - so women in these relationships are working extra hard to look after children and maintain income streams ... all the examples of couples I can think of where the woman earns most, you rarely find a househusband or a man on part-time hours - usually the man is working full-time and the heady compromise is that the woman drops to 4 days or does a compressed week, as it is generally women who are desperate to spend tiime with their small kids - just an observation.

StripeyBear Mon 28-Jan-13 18:04:39

Janey I don't have any figures - I'm just going on my vast experience of talking to other pg friends and my own pgs. I'm not suggesting that women need to take to their beds - I'm suggesting that working a 13 hour shift on a surgical ward, where the average nurse walks about 5miles in a shift - is fairly stressful, when you are pregnant, and have spent the day running after a toddler and bf-ing a baby. tsk tsk...

PigletJohn Mon 28-Jan-13 18:08:18

stripey

how do you feel about "a woman who can't pull her weight financially"

cantspel Mon 28-Jan-13 18:13:15

stripeybear then it could be said that it was her choice to have 3 children close together that added to her problems not that fact she didn't marry a high flyer.

And i know plenty of men who are desperate to spend more time with their children but cant as they have to work and support a family.

HannahsSister40 Mon 28-Jan-13 18:14:45

I guarantee the same discussion will be happening on Mumsnet in 50 years time and I guarantee 90% of women will still feel a greater pull to stay home with the kids in the early years. In a future where men get pregnant, carry babies in their belly,give birth, breastfeed and have 12 months maternity leave,that might change.

Oblomov Mon 28-Jan-13 18:20:23

What an odd thread.

I am practically the OP's woman. In some senses. Apart from the fact that I work p/t, my dh is not mechanic. Op seems to have no idea what her life is actually like.

BUT, also what about all those mn threads wehre people say they had poor career AND even today, I see mn threads with top lawyers saying that the carreer is not conducive to firms, the firm won't consider anything less than f/t now that the op has had children and OP may not have become a lawyer(or insert any other top career) if they had known.

Oblomov Mon 28-Jan-13 18:21:32

They had poor career ADVICE, sorry.

VinegarDrinker Mon 28-Jan-13 18:26:06

I am the higher earner in our relationship. We both work part time. We share childcare. We both have a great work/life balance. Our boy has a good balance of care from Mummy/Daddy/other family/nursery. Life is good. I in no way aspire to or want to be a SAHM. I love my time at home, and I love my time at work.

I would hope any children have careers they enjoy. I hope they choose partners that love and respect them, and (if they want kids) who believe that parenting is a joint venture.

By the way, I'm pregnant, with a toddler, I've worked 3 x 13 hour shifts in a busy, demanding healthcare job in the last 4 days ("just" the 8-5.30 today smile). The majority of my friends and colleagues who have been pregnant have had no problem doing similar. There's no competition in pregnancy, and everyone is different, but I absolutely wouldn't have wanted to stop work just because of a normal, healthy, low-risk pregnancy.

LadyInPink Mon 28-Jan-13 18:26:52

When i was growing up (in my family and family's social circle) it was expected that the boy children do well at school and get good careers but that it didn't matter about girls as we would just end up married with children shock. Consequently I was never encouraged to choose a career or go to uni but just to get by because I'd be snapped up by some man who wanted me to have his babies By 22 I was fed up in a dead end job and forged a new career and did well and eventually met a great guy who I did marry and have DC with (worked up until 8.5 mths) but once they were at full time school I felt I couldn't just keep house and so started a new career path and have never looked back.

I actually voiced this out loud to my DF who looked very sheepish and admitted that yes that was how we were brought up and that he was actually very proud that I had got a good career and earn good money and that he was sorry he hadn't encouraged me to do well young. My DM only recently realised I work (have done for 4 years now since DD turned 5) as she hadn't ever bothered to ask what I'm doing etc but assumed i just kept house.

To this end I want to encourage my DC to work hard, get a good career and be happy and hopefully they will walk in those kind of social circles and meet partners who are likeminded e.g that do have jobs and earn okay be that as a Dr or as a binman.

janey68 Mon 28-Jan-13 18:43:40

Yes, women are the ones who actually give birth, and can breastfeed but but they can't get pregnant without the father, and there is also no logical reason why the father can't be equally nurturing and hands on. It's also perfectly possible for the mother to carry on bf after returning to work- I speak as a mum who took far less than a years ML.

There are choices here: if a woman decides that she is going to step back with her career, take on most of the child and home responsibility, then it's probably because she wants to do that, so it's a bit much to then complain that her dh isn't earning enough. Like I said, I feel sorry for a lot of dads who may well wish they weren't being sidelined like this. And sorry for the children too if they aren't getting a balanced view of parenting.

meadow2 Mon 28-Jan-13 18:46:53

Your pregnant and breastfeeding for such a small amount of your life, whereas people will be working until they are 68.Also breastfeeding doesnt stop you from going to work.

cory Mon 28-Jan-13 18:58:18

I know plenty of families- my own included - who do not have a Principal Parent (sounds a bit like the principal boy in the pantomime). Instead decisions are either taken together by both parents or by whichever parent happens to be around at the time. Such families find it easier to be flexible around work arrangements too.

exoticfruits Mon 28-Jan-13 19:00:56

You deluded fools, how many of you have followed YOUR mothers' advice n whom to fall in love with?!
Well?!

This is the thing that I find strangest-the thought that your advice will be welcomed and listened to!! The only thing that you can do is set by example-DCs do as you do, they do not do as you say!
I also think that 'choosing' a husband does back at least 100 years-you do not need to choose one at all-just get on with life and either you meet someone that you want to spend your life with, or you don't. (and I don't think that money comes into it).

exoticfruits Mon 28-Jan-13 19:01:34

sorry 'goes' back-.

janey68 Mon 28-Jan-13 19:03:19

Yes, that's how we work things too cory, and I think many families do nowadays. Major decisions discussed between us both. Minor decisions- what what trousers the toddler is wearing today, what to cook for dinner and whether to go to jolly jingles or not- well, we're both equally capable of that

meadow2 Mon 28-Jan-13 19:06:00

I know people who have a principal parent type of arrangement.The dads dont know any of their childrens friends names,never met their mums and dads, wont do parties on their own as they dont know anyone, dont know anything about the childs teachrr/class etc.I dont know why anyone would want that type of arrangement there is no need for a principal parent.

morethanpotatoprints Mon 28-Jan-13 19:10:48

Janey and Cory.

We do that too, we have equal parenting roles. Dh works but quite a lot of the time at home. I don't work and quite a lot of the time at home.
But when i'm out dh does parenting, when he's out I do.
Major decisions we discuss.

He doesn't earn a huge amount of money, but we aren't a needy type of family. I married for love and wouldn't care if he was a Prince or Pauper, Rich or poor.

Latara Mon 28-Jan-13 19:19:57

BUT no-one has answered MY question - WHERE DO YOU FIND A HUSBAND, ANY HUSBAND PLEASE??

exoticfruits Mon 28-Jan-13 19:22:01

You probably won't find one if you are looking Latara!

Latara Mon 28-Jan-13 19:41:02

I'm trying not to look! But after just reading the scary Council Tax benefit cuts thread... a high-earning husband would be very useful indeed.

Latara Mon 28-Jan-13 19:42:05

Or a low earning husband. Just as long as he can help pay my council tax and be good to look at etc etc.

hrrumph Mon 28-Jan-13 19:48:31

I think I'd settle for dd earning enough to keep herself and having someone who's decent to her.

hrrumph Mon 28-Jan-13 19:49:04

The thing is, you can choose someone who's a high earner and that situation can change overnight.

Latara Mon 28-Jan-13 19:50:57

Indeed, as my own earning / work situation has proved, hrrumph.

PigletJohn Mon 28-Jan-13 20:11:50

Latara
"BUT no-one has answered MY question - WHERE DO YOU FIND A HUSBAND, ANY HUSBAND PLEASE??"

I'm surprised no-one has said "you can have mine" yet grin

amillionyears Mon 28-Jan-13 20:16:10

I always think that petrol stations have men of all descriptions in them morning, noon and night.
Not sure how you could guarantee that they were single though.

hrrumph Mon 28-Jan-13 20:29:05

Latara - I couldn't tell you. It took me years to find mine. Through mutual friends in the end for me.

exoticfruits Mon 28-Jan-13 22:01:59

Years ago my DS (aged 3 yrs) told me I could find one in the supermarket!

amillionyears Mon 28-Jan-13 22:30:13

!
It used to be on TV a few years ago, that going in around 6pm, or that sort of time, was the best time!

DaisyDoodle Mon 28-Jan-13 22:35:20

I married for love and I'm skint. I'm going to teach my daughter to study, earn well, make her own savings, then marry for love. She can then have her own financial independence once she has kids.
Oh and don't live in London whilst doing this as saving is impossible.

MoreBeta Mon 28-Jan-13 22:36:13

Oh dear it seems that my DW picked a 'wrong un' then. blush

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