To think i shouldn't have to pay HALF of the holiday, just because i have a child?(416 Posts)
My two friends suggested we should go on a caravan holiday this summer with my 5yo dd (neither of my two friends have children).
We've decided on a self-catering Haven holiday and the total price is approx £450 for the week, including funworks passes etc. Only additional costs would be for food and transport, which we'd pay our own way on when we get there.
Anyway, my friends are expecting me to pay half - so £225 - rather than a third - £150.
They say it's because dd will count towards the price too.
I've just checked how much it would be for me and dd to go alone - on the exact same holiday - and it's still £450 - the same price.
The price is based on size and type of caravan, not how many people are in the group. And since the smallest caravan is 2 bedrooms, it's the same price.
(Hope this is making sense).
Anyway, i'm a bit peed off they expect me to pay £225 and they can just pay £112 each. They've reluctantly agreed to go thirds instead (£150) each, but have said it's just to shut me up, they're not happy about it.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I would point out that as you're not booking a caravan with an extra bedroom, it's £150 each.
I'd have expected to pay more, why would you expect them to subsidise your daughters holiday? A babe in arms, then a third would have been fair but if ober that then sharing cost per person seems fair.
But the price would be the same (£450) whether or not my dd was coming.
If you don't want to pay your fair share of this (ie yourself plus your child) book separately and pay £450. I think you should pay half to be honest. Not a good start to the holiday really, if I were your friends I'd be having second thoughts.
YABU. You should pay half.
Not a recipient for a fun holiday though is it?
It should be per room IMO.
So if it's a 2 bed, they pay for 1 room and you the other.
You shouldn't expect them to sub you and your child.
It sounds reasonable to split the cost four ways when there are four people going.
But if youa re already arguing about it, I'm not sure this holiday is a good idea in the first place.
how much is it for 3 adults?
I wouldn't go.
Huffy? Maybe, but it sounds like too much stress.
Are you booking a two bedroomed caravan? If so, I can see their point as you are having one room and they are having one room.
Having said that, I think it's very, very mean to do that to a friend. I wouldn't factor in the child when it comes to breaking down the costs.
Have I read this wrong?
The caravan is the same price whether the child goes or not.
So if the OP left her child at home...they'd all have to pay £150 each anyway.
But the price is fixed at £450 whether or not my dd was there. It is based on the size and type of caravan, not how many people are going on the holiday.
i.e. it's not price per person.
2 of you going, 2 of them going. It's not like the child attracts a discount - it would be the same price if it were a 4th adult going.
Don't see what the problem is with their suggestion and if I were them, I wouldn't be happy paying two thirds either.
I don't have kids though, so standing by ready to be 'set straight'...
I agree with them to. You need a room, they need a room so split 50/50.
If this was me with my friends then it would be split between the adults going, so £150 each.
YANBU. I think it is a bit tight of your friends to expect you to pay half.
I agree it's not a good start to the holiday and if it's not yet booked, I don't think I'd go.
If you pay per adult then they are subsidising your child. In effect he/she gets free accommodation. I expect this wouldn't fly if the situation was reversed?
Ther are 4 people going on this holiday. Their age is irrelevant.Therefore each pays a quarter. So obviously you should pay half!
Yabu and more than a little bit tight expecting them to part pay your way for you! Don't expect an invite next year!!
If they are already unhappy about things, I can only see this getting worse to be honest. I can already imagine the petty squabbles over food bills and so on.
Yes - it's not based per person. The price is based on the caravan.
Caravan's only start at 2 bedroom. You can't get a one bedroom caravan.
It would be £450 fixed price whether 1, 2, or 3 adults were going.
Why not say £125 for each adult and half for DD (£75)?
YANBU, in our family we split it amongst adults. That is very mean of them, it is an adults holiday.
Has it been booked? I would pull out if it were me, as they are saying 'only to shut you up' - not very kind or conducive to a relaxed holiday.
what about agreeing to pay half for your child?
so you would pay 3 halves, of one person, they would pay 2 halves each.
that's dividing the cost into 7s.
£450/7 = 64.28
you pay 3x (£450/7 =64.28) so £192.85
and they pay
2 x (£450/7 =64.28) each so £128.57
you have to take into account that you have an extra person, but I don't think you should have to pay a full adult share for her.
The price is for a 2 bed caravan
They have one bedroom
You and dd have the other
Costs are half the price per room, unless you and dd are squeezing into a single bed ?
You say you shouldn't pay half as it would be the same cost whether or not your dd was coming? Well it would be the same cost whether or not your friends go too, so that logic doesn't work either.
If it sleeps four people and there are four going then it should be split four ways surely?
I would have expected to have paid twice for me and my DD. I certainly wouldn't have kicked up a stink and pissed them off before we went
We have the same with centre parcs. It's price per lodge not per person.
We are using 2 of the 3 bedrooms and therefore are paying 2/3 of the price. Mil and her partner are using one room so paying 1/3.
I would never expect someone to sub me and my dc.
I think you should pay more than £150 because your DD is going as well so she's an extra person sharing the caravan.
But I can't imagine my friends charging my 5yo a full quarter of the price; £125 each for them and £200 for you and DD sounds about fair.
Then again, I can't imagine wanting to go on holiday with anyone who "reluctantly agrees to shut me up". Nice.
YANBU because you've have to pay £450 regardless of if your DD was there or not. It's not per person.
Since its by room not person and you are taking half the rooms you should pay half the cost. YABU. Really you should apologise and pay your fair share or you may find your friends won't ask again.
I don't understand why i should have to pay half though. If dd wasn't going, it would still be the same price, and we'd only have to pay a third each. But because i'm bringing dd (who adds nothing to the price at all!), i have to pay half?
Can argue this one both ways, but on balance YABU. Why don't you offer a compromise that you pay £200 & they pay £125 each?
By your logic Whistling why don't you pay for it all? It would be the same price whether they come or not so you should pay the £450 and everyone else can tag along for free.
It's sometimes hard when you socialize with childless friends because you often have a lot more expenses than them and no more income. So I see why you are struggling with this. But they arent BU to think two of you, two of them.
Agree with others - if you're arguing and building resentment at this stage don't go on holiday with them.
The people saying its four peoplair am soooo glad you are not my 'friend' it would cost the same f the child goes or not. The child has no earnings, so is not very kind to expect the child to pay for themselves.
YABU. If one of your friends didn't go then the price would be the same too. Should they use that as justification for not paying as much? If there were agree rooms and you were sharing then you should pay less. But there's not so only fair to pay half.
This kind of holiday is pretty much based around kids though. Unless its just being used as a base and you won't see much of them then it'll probably be more focused on your child and what they want to do. Kids change the dynamic.
Three, not agree. Stoopid phone.
Nickelbabe's suggestion sounds good to me.
Well, that was excellent typing, well done me!
If sharing holiday accommodation you share costs between the number of people going.
If two people were going theyd pay the cost of the caravan between them.
If 3 people were going they split the cost 3 ways.
As 4 people are going you split the cost 4 ways.
As you're responsible for your daughter you pay both your shares.
People book larger accommodation they couldn't afford on thier own and then share it and split the costs to make it affordable. So they fact there aren't any smaller cheaper caravans is irrelevant.
You are basically asking them subsidise your daughter.
Taking kids on Holiday is not usually free.
You should pay half. You will spoil the holiday if you don't compromise IMO. There will be ill feeling in the group.
But you could use your argument to say it would cost the same if you didn't go at all. In which case they should pay £225 each & you go free!
But crash her dd is going so that point is irrelevant. It would be £450 whether one of her friends went or not so should she not have to pay? Because if she didn't go the total cost would still be the same. That's an illogical way of looking at it.
Agree with anyfucker and others, it should be split by room surely?
I don't really follow your logic - why would you not pay half? Saying "well it'd still be £450 if DD didn't come" is missing the point - it'd also still be £450 if YOU didn't come. Or one of your friends. So what?!
It is a 2 bedroom place, with 2 sleeping berths per room. Your 2 friends are sharing a room. If you didn't come yes it would still be £450 but they'd have a room to themselves each!
If I were you I'd be hideously embarrassed to have pulled that stunt.
We're really good friends so i know it will all blow over. This isn't a serious fall out, by the way. It's just playing on my mind.
Sorry if i should have put this into my Op - We've been together twice before when dd was a baby, and we did it thirds. So i don't understand why i now have to pay? What difference will it make that dd's out of the travel cot and into a bed?
Yabu, Even if you were going alone without your daughter, you would be benefiting by having a bigger room to yourself. You are paying for the room so you should pay half either way.
I wouldn't go on a Haven holiday if somebody paid me £450 to go on it. I think it is unreasonable of them to count your daughter as an adult as she is only five. I thought most people wouldn't expect a five year old to pay a full share but it seems from the replies that they do. It doesn't sound great that you are already all quibbling about who pays what. I think I'd be looking for different friends to go away with or go away with just your DD.
I assume the price for the whole caravan also includes an allowance for gas, electricity, the fees for the site the holiday company has to pay, water rates, maintenance costs of the vans and the whole site, and entertainment etc etc
Your daughter is going to be benefitting from all those things too
So if you take her along when she's 16 (unlikely I know but for the sake of argument), will you still expect her to go free?
Oi Viv, there is nothing wrong with a haven holiday
You're using half the accommodation aren't you? I read it that you and your child will share one room, they the other. So it's obvious how much you should pay to me. In fact, if I were one of 3 adults going on holiday in that setup, and getting one room to myself, I'd probably offer to pay a larger share of the cost, if not half.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
By your reasoning OP they'd have to pay £450 whether you went or not, so prsumably you should go free too??
The logic doesn't work.
You split the cost by the number of people sleeping in beds. If its a child their parent pays.
They'd be better off inviting 2 adults friends without children, their holiday would then be cheaper. They wouldn't have to subsidise your child.
How many bedrooms will the caravan you are staying in have?
I'd split it according to that. So 2 bedrooms - half. 3 bedrooms - a third.
At the moment, it sounds like they feel they are subsidising you. If they feel resentful, it is going to be a horrible holiday and you may end up not being friends by the end of it!
Perhaps you should print out the prices and show them that actually, it costs not one penny more to have your daughter there.
Print out the quote for the three of you and for the four of you - in the same sized accomodation.
They need to see that they aren't actually paying half of your child's accomodation.
I really don't know why you're making such a big deal out of it.
I would of expected to pay for my DC
I'm afraid YABU. Emmeline has a good point.
I do feel your pain though and think some of the compromises offered could work if you are sure you want to go on a holiday that has already got off to a rough start.
I think people tend to see babes in arms differently. I still think you pay by room. If 1 room is half the available space you pay half the cost be there 1 or 2 of you. Your friends were kind before. At what age would you accept paying for your own child?
What difference will it make that dd's out of the travel cot and into a bed?
of course it makes a difference, even by your own definition of the price being driven per room/bed
I expect your friends are makign a stand because they anticipate you getting subsidised holdays from them with your child for many more years yet
or not...when you finally piss them off totally
I wouldn't expect an invite next year, tbh
Not half. Two thirds.
My maths is shit.
Were you ever going as just the three of you though? That's the only way your argument about it being the same price for 3 or 4 stacks up. If there were always four, then it would always have been 2 per bedroom, and they would have expected to split the costs from the outset.
I agree with Euphemia that Taking kids on Holiday is not usually free. We have 3 DCs under the age of 8 and are going to London soon. We tried to book a room with a travel cot and was told we had to book 2nd room at half price.
So in that case you ABU.
This won't be a good holiday i suspect, quit now
No one expects a five year old to pay fgs.
They expect her parent to pay for the bed she is sleeping in which accounts for 1/4 of the accommodation.
Ww hire a cottage and take our kids. They both require a bed so we have to pay for. 4 bedded cottage.
Of course it would be much cheaper to take two earning aduktsbwithbus instead of us having to pay for our children's accommodation...
Vivienne, there is nothing wrong with Haven holidays. I have been on many and they are usually in beautiful parts of the country with lots of local attractions and amusements to visit if you want to leave the park. I went on one with my friend. She had 2 kids, I had 3. I paid more. Not much more just the amount it worked out per person not per caravan or room. WE had a fab time. I certainly didn't feel ripped off even though she wanted to pay half. I thought per person was much fairer.
"I don't understand why i should have to pay half though"
Because a) there are two of you and b) You will be using half of the accommodation.
How are you going to split food bills?
'No one expects a five year old to pay fgs.' Really? I wish holiday providers and airlines thought this.
I think it does change because your DD is there: you said in your OP that the price includes 'Funworks passes' which is for kids, so it's not just about the caravan, your friends are essentially having to subsidise that. I think you should pay the half.
I agree that it is by bed room
Your friends are paying for one bedroom and you are paying for the other.
If your dd wasn't gong and it was just the three of you, I would still expect that. If your two friends are sharing one room and you have single occupancy of the other. You would still pay half the cost on that basis.
The fact that your dd is going is irrelevant if you are getting a room for you personal use.
Ladtmargolotta they expect parents to pay for the child as the rest of that post states.
Yes, electric, gas etc is all free (included in the total price of £450 i presume).
It's a double room and a twin with two single beds. We've agreed they can have the double room if they want, and dd and i will share the twin room. But this won't affect their reasoning on the price each should pay.
I'm okay with the idea of paying half for dd (so £200 all in), which i'll suggest to them. But i still think it should be thirds.
Kids are given discounts everywhere for age - theatre tickets, park tickets, bus fayre, train fayre, so why are they counting her as an adult share in the total price of the holiday?
When I take DS on holiday with me, just me and him, I don't get any discounts.
I pay full price, just like I would if he were an adult.
Because its by room!!!!!!
YANBU - If you DD wasn't going, you would still have to pay £450, meaning £150 each so what difference does it make, it's not as if your child could stand her share!
If my friends were being this tight then frankly I wouldn't want to go with them.
I would expect to pay half and pay half.
If you want to continue going on holiday with them at some point you are going to have to start paying for dd.
I would think 2 rooms too to be honest.
I can see their point.
I think it would depend.
1. if your daughter didnt go, and A.N Other adult went instead, you have to pay for her 1/4. (as if another adult went, they would pay 1/4 of the costs)
2. if it was only ever intended to be the three of you, you each pay 1/3 (assuming your daughter will essentially doing the same as you)
3. if you are making "special" plans, for all of you, based on your daughter's requests, you pay her 1/4.
basically, I think what I mean is, in my opinion, if your daughter being there/not being there makes no difference, you don't pay extra for her. If it restricts/changes/affects the holiday for the others in any way, she is treated as an extra person and you have to pay for her.
Does that make sense?
Will you be paying 50% of food bills?
Food bills/drinks/transport - we have always paid our own way at restaurants in my group of friends. I.e. no one pays for others' meals etc.
So i will pay for mine and dd's stuff, they will pay for theirs individually.
I'm shocked by the majority of responses as I'm with the OP. I'd be expecting to share the cost between adults. Our family have always done it this way for summer hols. I'd have thought it was normal until the time the kiddies reach an age where they need their own room therefore increasing the overall cost. I assume OP would be sharing a double bed with DD that otherwise would only have 1 adult in it?
How much would you expect to pay if only one of your friends were going?
If someone else decided to come along and sleep on the sofa would you want it to be free for them as it wouldn't cost any more for the caravan?
If you feel so strongly that children shouldnt have to pay then book your own caravan on the same site. Somehow i doubt you would do that though.
No - the funworks passes don't affect the price, Hyva.
That's why i'm saying it would be £450 whether dd was there or not. They're not paying her pass at all.
If you wre to take your DD on holiday without your friends you would have to pay £450.
By sharing the caravan with friends you are cutting the cost of you and your DD's holiday down to £225.
Why should they share your family holiday caravan, get 1 bedroom to themselves, just the same as you and DD, but have to pay for half of your bedroom too??
If you were going without dd and one of your friends had a partner they wanted to bring how much would the two of them pay?
Even by your last reasoning OP, you should at least pay half for dd! I'm not sure how you can come to the conclusion that it should be thirds. That's not expecting a discount, that's expecting free which is ridiculous!
No, my dd won't be restricting their holiday in any way.
Me and dd do our own thing during the day, while they do their's.
Then we go out to dinner together and go to the night shows. They still get a drink and have a laugh. They're not responsible for dd at all. If dd gets tired, i take her home and they stay doing what they want.
"I don't understand why i should have to pay half though. If dd wasn't going, it would still be the same price,"
and if you were the only one going it would be the same price, and you'ld have to pay 100%.. so what? 4 people going, 1/4 of the price each!
a bottle of wine costs the same whether one perosn drinks it or it's shared by 4 people, but if it's shared by 4 people the cost per person is 1/4 what it is if you have it to yourself!
I would even go so far as to say that someone else's child has more of an impact on shared space on holiday than another adult would!
Don't go though, not if you're already having "kitty ishooos!"! it won't be fun!
Kids are given discounts everywhere for age
That's for the operators to discount, not your friends.
surely if its 2 bed the price is per room - so £225 per room with 2 people in each room thats £112.50 per person.
I am not sure why you would expect your friends to pay for your DD's bed while they have to share a bed?
If dd wasn't coming, and it was a 4th adult instead, i'd say a quarter each.
But i don't feel this is applicable to my situation - 3 adults and one child. I don't believe a child should be expected to pay the same amount as an adult.
If i say dd and i will squish onto the couch instead to sleep (hypothetically), should i not have to pay a penny?
"If dd gets tired, i take her home and they stay doing what they want."
what if what they want is to carry on drinking and setting the world to right in the caravan?.. they can't do that! honestly it's totally deluded to think that sharing a caravan with a child has no impact on adults on holiday - seriously don't go! you're not on their wavelength at all already! It'll be horrible all round!
They can't do that anyway, olde, as it's against the park's policy. Again, whether or not my dd's there.
When a friend and I went on holiday, she with her two DDs and me with one DD, we used to split the cost half and half, which was fine if the three of them slept in one room, and the two of us the other, but when her eldest started bringing a friend along, so we had to book 3 bedroom cottages, she still only paid half <sigh> She was and is my dear friend, so I let it go, but it did used to niggle at me.
Agree with oldebaglady your mates have no idea what they are letting themselves in for.......
Just get over it and pay the damn money. Or don't go.
If you feel so strongly then why not suggest you book a 3 bed and pay per room?
That would be fairer to your friends.
p.s. babes in arms are generally considered 1 mother-baby unit and aren't counted in say wedding numbers etc, children who have their own seat are
Can't do what, drink in the caravan? Since when?
I just don't understand why you think DD should be free.
When we holiday abroad a family friend comes with us. So that's me, DH, 3 kids and our friend. 6 in total.
We split the cost 6 ways, we pay 5/6ths and friend pays 1/6th. We couldn't possibly split the cost 3 ways, that would be totally unfair and ridiculously unaffordable for him. Kids cost money too, and on a foreign holiday child occupancy attracts an under occupancy supplement.
4 beds available, 4 beds needed, 4 equal shares of the cost.
The problem is that they do! You may 'win' in that they'll pay a percentage of your room, but they'll resent you for it.
If your daughter wasnt going, and it was the three of you in a two bed , and you shared one of the rooms with one friend while the other friend had a room to herself, do you hand on heart think that you wouldn't think it fairer for the one getting the room to themselves to pay more?
It is farer for it to be split by rooms.
450 divided by 2 is 225 per room.
Wouldn't you think the friend on her own should pay for her room?
But you want them to subsidise yours. Its not fair.
"If dd wasn't coming, and it was a 4th adult instead, i'd say a quarter each.
But i don't feel this is applicable to my situation - 3 adults and one child. I don't believe a child should be expected to pay the same amount as an adult."
I still don't "get" your reasoning. Why should your child go free. She is a child so you pay for her, she doesn't pay for herself because she isn't earning. She is still someone that takes up bed space, a seat in the dining area, watches TV, uses the bathroom etc. Why should your friends subsidise her?
I'm sorry but you sound a little entitled over this.
it's against the park's poicy to stay up chatting in your own accomodation? Even without extra alcohol, most adults holidaying together like to carry on the conversation from the evening when they get back to their accomodation, not tip toe and whisper and get straight into bed with minimal lights on etc. I'm not talking about having a caravan party! just adults sitting up chatting into the wee hours
YABU it should be by bedroom.
Even if your dd wasn't coming you should pay 1/2 because you are occupying one of two bedrooms. If there were three bedrooms and you and your daughter shared one then you should pay 1/3.
No yanbu like you said it would cost the same if your dd didn't go it's not like three adults would go in a one bedroom caravan. Personally I wouldn't go at all if that's their attitude.
Of course it's not against Havan policy to drink and chat privately in your caravan.
The OP paying for 1.5 people would be more fair IMO than 50/50 or 1 third.
the less people who go, the more they pay per person but the more space and less washing up/clutter there is
Every extra person makes it feel more cramped so less value, and children though physically small have a knack of spreading themselves out more than most adults!!
It will be a TOTALLY different holiday with your DD there than if it was just 3 adults, if you can't accept that then you really should just get your own caravan and leave them to it as your lack of consideration about this will cause other problems
Firstly, children don't pay for themselves, their parents pay for them.
Secondly, you are not arguing that you should pay less for dd, you seem to think that she should get a completely free holiday at your friends expense
And thirdly,whether you sleep on the couch is irrelevant. That second room needs to be paid for! . The only logical way to divide it is by room, if you suddenly have twins before you go, you should still only pay half as there are 4 squeezed into one room.
YABU....why don't just you and dd go, and pay the £450?
Exit - that's different though from my situation though.
My dd doesn't incur any additional charges. We don't need an extra room for her.
And my friends do know 'what they're letting themselves in for' as we've been on holiday together twice before.
As others have said I think you should pay half whether or not your DD comes - you are occupying one of the two bedrooms. If you were willing to share your room with another adult then you would each pay 1/4.
The cost is being (fairly) split by room, rather than by person.
If the two bedrooms were occupied and you and DD chose to sleep on the sofa/floor (as you suggested) then your share would be close to zero.
Of course they can drink in the caravan, but they can't exactly go mad and throw a party. Nuisance noise is banned after a certain time, just as it is anywhere else. So whether or not my dd was there, they still couldn't carry on getting too drunk and merry in the caravan.
You asked AIBU, the majority of posters have said yes but you continue to argue and ignore what they are saying.
Are you expecting your friends to split food etc three ways too? Quite frankly if I were your friends I would cancel going with you.
Book your own caravan and pay the full £450.
I paid for a caravan holiday a couple of yrs ago for me and my 4 children. I booked a 3 bed, 8 berth caravan. It cost £120.
My sis suggested she come along with her 2dc, seeing as there was room. I said fine. I had the double room with baby and toddler. My other 2 dc shared a room. Her 2dc shared a room. She had the sofa bed.
I asked her what she thought was a fair split, and she looked shocked. she had assumed it would not cost her anything as I was paying for a 3bed anyway!
I would have appreciated a contribution, but went along with it to keep the peace. I still think it was incredibly cheeky. I would not have expected half, or even a third, but I'm still not sure what would have been a fair split
But the way the bedrooms work means that even if dd wasn't coming, there'd still be an extra bed.
It's a double bed and a twin room.
I wouldn't base the price on who got a room to themselves, no. I'd divide it by amount of adults.
Are we making you think again, at all, OP ?
It's not exactly crime of the century at all, and I am sure you are a lovely friend, but your mates have given you a warning. After this year, they won't tolerate it again. No more invites...it's you and dd on your own (paying all the tariff). Is it worth you sticking stubbornly to your guns ? Really ?
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes no yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes no yes yes yes yes.
OP, I think youre really missing the point that people who say you are being unreasonable are trying to make. The point is that, when you book hotel rooms, book flights, or anything else for a holiday, having DD with you would cost you an extra ticket or mean youd have to pay for a room that was large enough for both of you. I wonder what would happen if you tried the but I have a child argument if booking a holiday for just the two of you you wouldnt get anywhere! Why you think her going should not cost anything is mind boggling to me you say gas, light etc is free when it is not; it is included in the overall £450 for the holiday. If you only pay a third, your friends are paying your daughters proportion of light, heat, etc, and why should they? I think it is only fair you pay by room - why should you benefit from an entire room but not pay proportionate to that just because one of the occupants happens to be a child.
I think you are being unreasonable to not be able to see why theyd think you should pay. You keep repeating well, Im taking a child not an adult without actually addressing any of the other points that people are making. If you are that inflexible here, I can see why your friends would want to ensure you pay for your DD from now on so that they dont have to continue subsidising your holiday costs until shes an adult!
"I'd divide it by amount of adults."
Most people wouldn't. If you went on holiday on your own with a friend who had two children how would you expect to split the bill?
happy I call out your sister as freeloader
don't agree to anything like that again (unless you fancy "mug" tattoed on your forehead)
I realise that, but the point here is that you should be paying per room - but I did not enforce that policy on my friend, and it left a bad feeling - I felt she should have offered.
Either suck up paying for half, or don't go.
OP, so if you weren't taking DD would you think it was fair that you all paid a 1/3 when you got a room to yourself and they had to share?
If you were my friend, I want to split it 1/3. And the children don't count.
Bun - so long as i wasn't expected to pay for her kids' food, activities, and we wouldn't need an extra room for them - i'd go halfs. She pay one half, and i the other. If it was going to cost the same whether or not her kids were there - of course that's what i'd do.
I wouldn't base the price on who got a room to themselves, no. I'd divide it by amount of adults.
So, if you were single and you had a room to yourself, you'd still expect to pay a third? Would that work in a hotel, do you think? 'Oh, I'm on my own, so my friends are going to pay part of my bill, as well as their own room.' Of course it wouldn't. Can you not see how illogical some of your arguments are?
It'sAll - i wouldn't care who got a room to themselves tbh. And i definitely wouldn't expect one of us to pay more than the others. It wouldn't be anyone's fault that 4 beds is the minimum amount the caravan sleeps.
Look. 225 is still, by your own admission, half what it would cost you to go just you and your daughter.
Is saving 75 quid worth really pissing your mates off and having them feel you're taking the piss? You say you've done it before? Maybe they're tired of subbing you.
How they feel also matters.
They don't want to pay more than what they see as their share.
If you can't afford it - tell them to go by themselves!
I'd make the most of the free ride this year tbh op because I can't imagine you'll be asked again.
If you insist on only paying a third then I think you should get a 3 bed so at least you pals get a bit more for their money considering they are subbing your kid.
Do you know, I started off having some sympathy for you and thinking that although you should pay more than a third to the total cost, my lovely friends would undoubtedly not take a whole quarter for my 5yo DD (even though I would argue about it and probably end up taking extra wine and food to compensate for their generosity).
However, the more of your posts I read, the more you sound an entitled brat who won't consider anyone's situation other than your own.
YAB completely U
And a pain in the arse as well.
And also, some on here have said you're not being unreasonable, OP, and they'd split it by threes - that's great, if everyone agrees. However, that's not how your friends feel, is it? If two people think they're getting a rough deal by splitting it in thirds (which they do in this instance, and fairly I think), then I think the OP needs to respect their opinion and not guilt them into paying more than their fair share by repeating 'but, I have a child' as if this argument entitles her to get a discount!
Dizzy - not sure i understand.
In a hotel, you get to choose a single room if that's what you need. In this holiday, the minimum the caravan provides is 4 beds. It's not possible to get a single bed caravan.
You keep mentioning the fact that you have been before OP, I put it to you that your friends may have reached the conclusion they are being mugged off - hence the suggestion of a change in price plan this time. Next year I doubt they'll invite you at all and you will have to arrange your own holiday and explain to the companies why your daughter should go free. Good luck with that.
So, there is a spare bed, so you are taking along your child to fill it.
Re read happy's post about her freeloading sister in law......
Are your friends a couple?
The thing is, it doesn't really matter what we all think.
It matters what your friends think. However good friends you think they are, they may very will get tired of you trying to take advantage of their good nature. You have already admitted that they are not happy with the arrangement.
Don't be surprised if they don't want to go on holiday with you next year.
You need to change your way of looking at it OP.
The caravan is £450 fixed price. So that's £225 per room. End of.
They share 1 room so split their bill 50/50, so that's costing them £112.50 each.
Your room needs to be paid for by you so £225 is your bill, whether you share with your DD or go on your own.
Geddit? The caravan costs £225 per bedroom!!
If my friends weren't going, i would not expect the holiday company to 'let my child go free'. I'd pay for the smallest caravan - £450 and we'd just have an extra room.
So do that then.
But you won't because you won't want to pay full whack.
"But the way the bedrooms work means that even if dd wasn't coming, there'd still be an extra bed.
It's a double bed and a twin room."
Hang on, one double bed, two singles. No DD. Three adults, three beds. How would there be a spare bed? I thought your friends had offered to share the double bed?
YABU. There is a party of 4, you will all enjoy the holiday, you should all pay 1/4 which means you and DD pay half.
Sorry op but mutt is right, you do not come off well in this post
Say i put my daughter into the twin room with one of my friends. I let the other friend have the double room to herself. I sleep on the sofa.
They'd still expect me to pay half because there's me and dd going. They're basing it per person - not by room.
And that is why it's annoying me. because that's not how it's worked out.
OP you say even if your DD didn't go it would still cost £450.
I could argue that when I go away with my DH if he didn't go so there was space in my room it would cost me the same, so he should go free??
It's time to realise that mostly with holiday accommodation your are paying per bed space whether it's a child or an adult that sleeps on it.
You've got a 4 berth caravan, with four people occupying bed space, so you split it 4 ways.
I'd get used to it because in future you will need to pay for daughters accommodation when you take her away.
a 4 bed caravan to yourself is different to a 4 bed caravan with 2 other adults and someone else's child
So you are getting the holiday for half of what you would pay if you went just with dd....plus you have the bonus of 2 friends/adult company and help with dd
Sorry if i'm coming across rude
pain in the arse
I'm not good with numbers and this whole situation is giving me a headache.
If one of your friends drops out, it will still cost you £450. So no reason why she should pay in the first place.
Err, in that scenario OP I'd suggest you pay 1/4 for you DDs bed space and a contribution for sleeping on the sofa. do that then.
Next ridiculous scenario please....
If there is space on the sofa - can I come as well?
And not pay anything?
They will probably be drinking heavily and being noisy from the word go. And they will definitely not offer to help with dd. I'd much rather a week of peace and quiet, but the cost would cripple me without them.
It's like we'll be on separate holidays, but sharing somewhere to sleep. Occasionally we'll have dinner together.
It should be organised by room. Two bedrooms means you halve the cost. It's not their fault that you are sharing with someone who can't pay her own way.
I don't think you are rude. I do wonder why you bothered asking though. I also feel a bit bad for you, like you don't seem to pick up the great bollocking sign that your friends are actually really pissed off with you.
Are you generally rubbish at picking up on social cues ?
Why have you asked if YABU when you have already firmly decided you are not.
You arguments and scenarios are entering to realms of ridiculous pedantry in an attempt to defend your point of view.
Ultimately it doesn't matter that 90% of us think YABU, it does matter though that your friends think you are. If you really want to keep them then you need to stop being defensive and start listening!
I'd much rather a week of peace and quiet, but the cost would cripple me without them.
This is very telling.
No, anyfucker, i know my friends are a bit peed off about it. Which is why i posted. because i felt i had a point.
I think this holiday is going to be a disaster for all of you. I don't think you should go
They are telling you they are not happy.
LISTEN to them.
I do think in your shoes I would forgo the holiday and save the money to go somewhere quiet with just you and dd next year. It all sounds rather stressful which isn't good for a holiday.
So basically they're doing you a favour? They want a holiday or drinking and being noisy, you cannot afford to go on holiday alone with your DD so they let you share accom with them?
When they suggested coming with us and splitting the cost, i automatically assumed they meant thirds each. I got a quote, and got really happy me and dd could get away. The money i was saving would pay our train fayre to get there.
But then they announced they expected me to pay half. I said this throws a spanner in the works and it would really limit mine and dd's spending money/food money.
They then reluctantly said they'd go thirds to shut me up.
It would cost the same if they didn't go with you too.
Pay your half.
I think they are very generous in sharing a holiday with someone with a child anyway.
Seems to me that you are convinced you are right and nothing will persuade you to see things from their pov and what you are actually looking for are arguments to use with them that backup your pov.
Which Haven is it? You haven't responded to my request to come and stay on the sofa for free. I am quite quiet.
Sounds like you have some very understanding friends then. I'd stop taking the piss out of them.
No, Cortana. I suggested the holiday and said it would be a struggle. Then they suggested we go away together instead, splitting the cost.
They're all going on their own holiday (spain) a few weeks in August. This Haven hol won't be their main one.
So you know your friends are peeved off yet persist with your freeloading?
I would be reconsidering my friendship in this situation tbh.
OP, listen to me love
Your friends have talked about this between themselves, without you there. They have asked each other if either is ok with your arrangement. Neither of them is...with such strength that they have taken what is actually a rather difficult step of telling you about it to your face.
And after that they have (your words) "reluctantly gone along with it" but made it clear (again...a hard thing to do with longstanding friends) they are peed off with you
not the caravan park pricing policy... you
you won't get invited again
I called someone's sister a freeloader upthread. I don't know if that is what your friends are thinking about you...but would it be ok by you if they are ?
So they are doing you a favour? By coming and subsidising your costs?
Okay, i can see why people think i'm being U.
The reason i'm not saying 'i'm unreasonable', is because i don't think a lot of you understand my side of the argument.
If i was childless, and had a friend coming on hol with a child, i would ONLY expect her to pay extra if the child made the holiday more expensive.
If it was the same price whether or not the child was there, i'd just go halfs with my friend.
Let's go on holiday. Its so expensive. It would be a real struggle for me.
Ok, we're going on our main holiday in august, but lets go away together for a week in a kids holiday park and we'll split the cost
Great, itll be x, I'll pay a third
Hang on, we want you to pay half. You're 2 out of four people going
I think my daughter shouldnt count and you should pay two thirds and me just a third.
Theres 4 beds and 4 people going. So you split the cost 4 ways. You need to pay half for you and dd. If theres 3 of you going you split the cost 3 ways. Unfortunately it is a bit of a shock when you have to start paying for kids when they get a bit older, but thats life! So either get a sitter for your dd and pay less, or go with your dd and pay her share.
They have reluctantly gone thirds to shut you up.
Yep I'd be surprised if they go with you again to be honest.
I'm going away for a weekend with a group and we are paying per room used- I have 2 kids going therefore paying more than someone with one.
So why cannot one of your friends go for free then?
Don't go on the holiday. If you cant agree with the fundamentals like who should pay for what it is going to be the holiday from hell with undercurrents of hostility.
Can I suggest, because an advert popped up on my FB, that you look at The Daily Mail holidays? Similar to The Sun holidays, but you dont have to collect tokens and you can book online today. £15 per head - so £30 - I had a look, there are still lots of parks in the South, mainly Sussex and Devon free during May half term (if you are tied to school holidays)
I have to say, if I wanted to go and get bladdered on holiday, I wouldnt want my friends child there in the morning - and if i were you I wouldnt appreciate a pair of hammered, giggling , stumbling, possibly puking mates falling through the door at stupid o'clock either.
Find somewhere, and go alone with your daughter - honestly you will have much more fun
We just don't agree with you.
Its not a case of if only we could understand what you mean we'd say oohhh, well, of course, in that case you are right.
I understand your argument.
I just do not agree that you are right or reasonable
"because i don't think a lot of you understand my side of the argument. "
I could scream into a pillow right about now. We do understand, we are not a collective of stupid people who have decided as a group to post here.
You want a holiday with DD that you can not afford.
Friends offer to come along and reduce your holiday costs by 1/2 making the holiday more affordable to you.
You expect this subsidy to be 2/3 of the total cost.
Your friends are sharing a bed so maybe one of them could go free and you and the other pal pay halves each? Fair?
That way your dd goes free too.
I see what your saying but I think your wrong.
Your friends are being penalised by gong on holiday with a child, as if they we're going with another adult who was using the bed space they'd only pay half.
But as you have an idea that children's bed space on holiday should be free and they are reluctantly going along with that they have to pay more.
Why don't you get another adult to come, to take DDs bed, and dd sleep on the sofa? Then you can argue she can be free as she's not taking a chargeable space.
WhistlingNun - I actually have some sympathy for you and would usually suggest sharing costs amongst adult.
Off track, though, we booked a Pontins apartment for 90 pounds for Monday to Friday last year - a real bargain! Worth checking out as you could go by yourself and it's be cheaper!
OK so your friends are doing you a favour and your pissed off with them?
Wow wish you were my friend
OP, as you've guessed, YABU. Even if you thought differently, by refusing to split the bill the way your friends asked you have been a bit of a grasping Gertie.
You say they are having another, completely different, holiday later in the year. This is a big clue that they don't particularly like Haven and are going so they can see you and do you a favour.
Please confirm you will be splitting food bills 50/50 - not alcohol, obviously, but food.
If you say "but DD doesn't eat as much as an adult" we will know what to think.
That's fine, OP, but your friends don't share your POV, and neither do a lot of other posters either. Your point about the child making the holiday more expensive doesn't hold as your friends are making your holiday LESS expensive by going with you. People understand what you are saying, but a large amount disagree with you. Does that not tell you anything at all?
And would you, honestly, expect to pay more than your share with the friend you describe? I wonder, as you'll never be in that scenario yourself. I know this will sound harsh, but it is very easy to be magnanimous hypothetically. If you then had years of paying more than your share, I wonder how you'd then feel.
Of course we understand your argument, most of us are parents too!
We just think you are wrong, and don't think having kids gives us ridiculous entitlement!.
Exit - Because theyare an adult. THIS is my point. I think children shouldn't be included in costs UNLESS the holiday costs more as a result of them being there.
In my case, it doesn't. I would never dream of:
Going on holiday with my friend to a 2 bed caravan. There's a spare sleeping space in both rooms (half of the double bed and one of the single beds). She then says, 'Oh, i'll bring my child.' It does not affect the cost at all.
So would it be okay for me to say, "Right, you pay two thirds then, and i'll just pay a third."
Why should it be more expensive for her? The bed was going spare anyway!
i won't be expecting a good friend to pay for her child if adding this child to a holiday won't change the price for adults going. interesting that this seems a minority view here. very telling.
We see your argument. Your argument is "I wouldn't charge them". I probably wouldn't either. But it's their choice and you have to swallow it because they are already doing you a £225 favour.
Ahh...so the reason we don't agree is because we don't understand. Brilliant!
Look, even if we had all agreed with you it wouldn't matter because your friends are pissed off with you and your friends are the ones whose opinion matters in this instance.
They are doing you a favour by even going on the holiday. But even paying half of what you would have to if they hadn't offered to come with you doesn't make you happy.
You know your friends are pissed off with you, most people here tell you you're being unreasonable, and why you're being unreasonable, yet you still think that you should only pay a third? Honestly, you'll be lucky if these people are still your friends in six months time. Being tight is a really in attractive quality in a friend.
Holly, thanks, but i can't do the daily mail holidays because of the dates. There's only specific dates you can go, and there's no guarantee which park they place you. This would interfere with my work and could cost a fortune in transport if i had to travel far.
So, can I come and sleep on the sofa, for nothing, it won't add to the cost of the holiday?
We do understand what you are saying. We all disagree.
Your friends think you are freeloading.
We all think you are freeloading.
If you are sure you are in the right then carry on but don't be surprised when the invites dry up because you have the reputation of a scrounger who refuses to pay her way.
We went away with my parents and kids, so needed 3 bedrooms.
We therefore paid 2/3 and my parents 1/3 .
As they only needed 1/3 of the space and my children needed another 1/3 and I needed another 1/3.
To have asked them to pay half to cover my children's costs, because I felt the children should somehow be 'free' would have been unreasonable.
You pay for your kids on holiday, really you do, it's the norm, there is no way around it, taking kids on holiday costs money.
Running out of ways to explain this now...
Whenever we go to shared villas or cottages with my family then we split the accommodation cost between the couples going so DH and I with our DC, My parents and DSis and her boyfriend pay a third each. DH and I always treat everyone to a couple of meals out as obviously they partially fund our DC.
However DH's family wouldn't do this and we would split accommodation by the room.
If I was your friend then I would have gone thirds but I guess many others wouldn't.
"Why should it be more expensive for her? The bed was going spare anyway!"
Given that you wanted the holiday for you and DD and the minimum sleeping space is 4 people your friends should go free by your logic. You and DD wanted to go and the bed they are sleeping in would be going spare anyway, right?
(Anyone else thinking about super-soakers and children's parties?)
I understand OP, I even agree with you. You should not have to pay extra because dd is there. You should pay half regardless as you have a bigger room!
Your friends have obviously realised this over the years and decided to make a change
They could go with another couple of adults and pay quarters
Instead they asked you and now have to pay thirds.
Wether you would ask them (easy to say tbh if they are childless and you say you can't afford train) or not your dd is meaning they are out of pocket by going with you.
Which is not fair.
So what you think is all that matters?
They are halving the cost of your holiday and that's not good enough for you?
Horatia - i've said already we pay our own way with everything else. Food, drink, any extra activites, transport etc.
We've always did this, even before dd comes along. One friend pays for herself, the other for herself, and i pay for me and dd.
Your argument is based on the notion that the daughter doesn't make it more expensive.
That's a logical fallacy.
Going to a holiday park, as opposed to a caravan somewhere with no entertainment or facilities, is necessary because you are bringing your daughter, and more expensive.
You do know if you took her on a plane you'd have to pay the same price for her seat as for you and your seat don't you?
You do know if you stayed in a twin room in a hotel they would not give you a discount because you 'only' had a child sharing the room with you don't you?
Then don't go.
You reckon you're paying your fair share of the accommodation, which you aren't. So forgive me for wanting you to be explicit about other costs.
You can't expect not to pay for her forever. What's the cut off point ? 16?
Adults pay for themselves and their children. It's how it works.
I'd go back and offer more as next year you might find yourself not asked at all.
If your dd was not going, you could invite a fourth adult for you to room with, and pay £125. Then the cost would be split equally four ways.
Firstly, children cost money. They are not free. They are not invisible non-consumers who cost nothing. When they are babies they often get away with being free for a short while. They can travel on a lap on a plane; they exist on milk only so are free in restaurants; they sleep in a cot so hotels rarely charge for them. In holiday cottages (we own one) they are "rated" for insurance purposes based on number of beds. Cots are extra so they don't count in the occupancy numbers.
You have to pay for YOUR child. It might be different if you were holidaying with GPs or with close family. They might be happy to pay extra to save you money. But these are friends and YOUR daughter is taking up a space in a caravan. No doubt she will also take up a space on a train. Yes, sometimes children are cheaper, usually, in the same way OAPs are, to help out those who are less well off. When children / OAPs are cheaper (trains, buses, library fines, museum entries) it is often because they are subsidised by the public purse.
You are expecting your friends to subsidise your child. They are not the government; they do not have tax revenue to use to help out the poor and the needy. It is irrelevant that they have another holiday planned. It doesn't matter if they get pissed every night or whatever they do. YOUR child is taking up a full sized space in a place owner by a company that does not offer child discounts.
Pay it or don't go. YABU and sound very entitled. What else do you expect to have paid for that is your responsibility?
OP, in the scenario you've just described, that person would have one room and you'd have another. In that instance, you'd pay half - do you not see the difference? You'd have one room to yourself and your friend and her child would have to pay for the other. It's obvious you don't, and you're now contradicting yourself with the last scenario provided as a lot of people have said it's about the number of rooms not the number of people.
In your scenario, whether you're splitting the cost by number of people or number of rooms, you'd come to the same figure - that you pay half as there are two of you, and you're having one room, whilst your friends have to share two. Either way you look at it, as the person with children, you should pay your share - i.e. a TOTAL room, not a concocted figure that makes you feel better and annoys your friends.
But, cortana - THEY are adults, which is why i would expect them to contribute, even if it was the same price without them.
I would never dream of asking a CHILD to pay a full share of the holiday, when it costs not a penny more for them being there.
But i can see a lot of you would.
If you are discounting your child like this, surely you can see that you are ONE person in a room big enough for two, and they are two. So, you pay for the bedroom.
Child or adult, it makes no difference if they are taking up a space.
The only difference between the two is the responsibility for picking up the cost, an adult should pay their own way, a child should be supported by the person/s responsible for them. No-one has said your daughter should pay for herself in some way, only that as her parent you are responsible for paying the way for both of you.
OH MY GOD! They have agreed to not make you pay, which personally i think is totally unreasonable on your part, so stop trying to force other people round to your way of thinking.
And I wouldn't dream of asking childless friends to subsidise me.
To be honest until you have paid towards one of these friends children in the future you haven't got any right to any higher moral ground with them at all.
I would never dream of asking a CHILD to pay a full share of the holiday, when it costs not a penny more for them being there.
Funny, holiday companies don't agree with you, OP, and neither do your friends. As others have stated, I don't know why you bothered asking. You don't appear to be taking on board what the majority are saying, and I think it's probably better that you cancel this holiday with your friends, since you expect them to subsidise your child's costs until she's an adult. What you seem to have ignored is the fact they're doing you a favour - I guess you could just pay the £450 instead if them wanting you to pay a fair share irritates you so much.
And posters aren't expecting the CHILD to pay, they're expecting the parent to pay their way. If you don't like it, don't go on holiday.
Op I do kinda see your point but in because it's never been an issue before.
I agree with anyfucker though, I do t think this will happen again
If I was them I'd suggest a separate van each. Wouldn't cost them a lot more, they could have a room each and lie ins without a child about.
i can see that's why many people think i'm bu.
i have a totally different opinion to the majority of you (and my friends) about whether or not it's fair to charge a child for a holiday which would cost the same even if they weren't there.
You all may see it as price per room, but my friends aren't calculating it that way. They feel is should be based on price per person. If i allowed them a room each and me and dd slept in the living room, they'd still want me to pay half.
It's nothing to do with the fact dd and i will be using a room. And this is what annoys me. Maybe if they DID base price on the room, i'd understand better.
I was originally on your side but now I can see that you are really being unreasonable. I wonder how you'd feel if it was someone else's child that you were essentially paying for...?
Nobody is asking your child to pay!
They're asking you to pay your fair share
one full bedroom. Since you will have the use of one full bedroom.
At least 90% of people on this thread disagree with you - take the hint!
I think you should pay for me to go to Barbados.
I suggested the holiday and said it would be a struggle. Then they suggested we go away together instead, splitting the cost.
When they suggested coming with us and splitting the cost
It sounds like you were planning on going anyway. Them offering to come and reduce your costs should be a bonus, or have I missed something?
I would never dream of asking a CHILD to pay a full share of the holiday, when it costs not a penny more for them being there
Your child would not be able to be there in the first place if your two friends weren't going!
The least you can do is pay your & her way!
The caravan would cost you and DD £450 if you went alone, so your friends are kindly going along each paying for themselves making your holiday possible Now instead of being happy that you can now go at all you want them to also pay for your DD!?
Whistling would you even be able to afford to go on holiday if your friends weren't going?
Hecate - they're not basing it on bedroom though. This is why i'm struggling to accept i'm being unreasonable. They're basing it on price per person. I could let them have a room each and i'd still be expected to pay half for sharing the living room with dd.
So if you went with another adult with four kids and had to get an extra room you'd think if fair to pay half then?
Just adults pay?
You're getting a holiday for half what it would otherwise cost you.
Why piss off your friends over 75 pounds?
They are telling you they don't want to sub you
I think the only other way is to book a 3 bedder and pay 1/3 each or leave the dd behind and get a fourth adult so you only have to pay 1/4.
Both of these options are fairest to your friends.
But your not. Wether you do it per ro or per head it's still fair you pay half!
WhistlingNun Sat 26-Jan-13 14:45:58
My two friends suggested we should go on a caravan holiday this summer with my 5yo dd (neither of my two friends have children).
WhistlingNun Sat 26-Jan-13 16:07:48
I suggested the holiday and said it would be a struggle. Then they suggested we go away together instead, splitting the cost.
WhistlingNun, can you see that these are two very different scenarios?
If i had to get an extra room as a result of her children being there, i'd expect her to pay extra.
In my situation, there is no need to pay out for an extra room though. Totally different.
If you started a thread saying that you were going on holiday with friends and they expected to have a bedroom each and for you and your dd to share the lounge but pay half then people would say they were being unreasonable and that you and your dd should have a bedroom.
WHISTLING WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO GO IF YOUR FRIENDS WERE NOT GOING?
YANBU. I was ripped off like this once. I let a 'friend' book a group holiday to Disneyland Paris and my DS was the only child. At the time of booking kids under 12 travelled and stayed for free. She paid the bill and let us all know what we owed her. I paid the money into her account and looked forward to the trip. On the train, she announces that the bill was divided between most of us, and a couple of her newly married friends who hadn't been able to afford a honeymoon had not paid a thing. Our payments had covered the cost. I had never met this couple and spent the rest of the trip seething, especially when I found out DS and I were sharing a room with my friend and another woman who was a complete stranger to me. I had paid for DS as if he was an adult. Never again, and I suggest you don't go away with these money-grabbers.
So suggest to them that you do exactly that.
Whether its by bedroom or by person matters not.
They are telling you they aren't happy.
They are telling you that you aren't paying your fair share.
You can't force them to agree that your child doesn't count as a person!
I think they sound mean. Would be happy to split it three ways in this situation and as the child is little.
Are you absolutely sure about this, or is this just opinion?
Whistling, you don't need to capps key words for me, it's rather patronising, see below.
THEY have offered to subsidise YOUR holiday.
No one is asking your CHILD to pay. They are expecting YOU to pay HALF, as YOU wanted to go on this holiday, with your CHILD.
The cost isn't raised by your friends being there. It is reduced. I suspect in the future YOU will be paying the entire cost for YOU and YOUR DD.
Price per bedroom - HALF of cost should be payed by you. You and DD have one bedroom out of two.
Price per person - you and DD are two people out of a party of four. HALF
If your friends are unreasonable, don't go, if you feel so strongly that you're right, pay the £450 and go just you and DD. If you can't afford this, think about the favour your friends offer while you sit at home, with no holiday.
I went on a haven caravan holiday, me, DP, ds, my friend and her daughter. She had her own room, DP and I had our own room and the kids shared. All adults went thirds even though DP and I were sharing. I don't think yabu tbh.
If there are already problems and you've not even left yet, is it really worth going?
I agree, I would never expect a child to pay for a place on a holiday.
I would expect their parent to pay for them. Your daughter isn't a non-entity, she is a personal who will use water, electricity food and space.
Sorry, meant to C&P I could let them have a room each and i'd still be expected to pay half for sharing the living room with dd. into my post asking if you're sure.
Why did you start this thread as you won't take anyone's view on board?
Your going to save 75 but if eat my hat if you get a similar offer next year..
You said earlier on you would never expect a child to pay so in theory you should be happy in the senario i described to split between adults.
Wether it's per room, or per head, if works out you should pay half. They are clearly not happy about it, it's obvious why. If I were you I'd either not go or pay more.
I can almost taste the resentment from the friends.
Can't imagine what the conversation will be like after a few wines.
It's going to be like holiday hell
i have a totally different opinion to the majority of you (and my friends) about whether or not it's fair to charge a child for a holiday which would cost the same even if they weren't there.
The point is: it would cost the same whether a child wasn't there, or whether your FRIENDS weren't there.
And, honestly, it doesn't matter whether they're calculating it by person or room. The fact is, the cost for you comes out as being the same. If they WERE expecting you to sleep on the floor, then you could take issue with it. But, they're not! So, why can't you just agree that the cost is fair even if the method of getting there isn't?! Is it so important for you to be right when they are doing you a favour? Seriously, if you continue to be so inflexible, you may find they don't want to go on holiday with you in future, and I couldn't blame them in the least.
Also, a lot of people don't feel a child should be charged for a holiday - they feel the child's parent should take responsibility for costs incurred by having a child there, and that the costs should be split in a fair way. A lot of people have said to you that they feel it should be split by room (so that the number of people/children wouldn't actually matter), and you're splitting hairs about the fact you don't think that's how your friends calculated it.
lovely I'd be raging if that was me!
Gilmours, i've discussed all scenarios with them at length. This is why i'm sure. And this is why i'm annoyed. They are basing the holiday on price per head. They don't care what the sleeping arrangements are.
I'll take Oddboots point.
If i'd said 'i'm being expected to pay half of the holiday even though me and dd won't have a room', would you all still agree with my friends?
Would you still think me a free loader? Or would they be the free loaders?
Cortana - i use caps because it's quicker than using bold. No patronising intended.
Lovelyladure your example is not the same to this situation at all!
You were geniunely ripped off.
Op is BU
Whistling will you answer my question please?
What point are you making?
Your only angry they want you to pay a contribution towards your own child.
I give up.
I hardly ever venture onto AIBU but this thread is making my teeth itch SOOOO badly.
Just look at the maths, whistlingnun. If your friends had invited two other adults to share the holiday (as I suspect they may well do in future), the cost per person would be £450/4, i.e. £112.50 per person.
Instead, they have invited a 5 year old child as the fourth person. Why should that decision cost them £37.50 extra each?
When your DD was in a travel cot there could reasonably have been a fourth adult occupying the other bed, and therefore it was reasonable to only ask you to pay a third. She is now occupying a bed which no one else can occupy, and the cost of that should be yours, not theirs.
YABVVVVVU. And dense.
They are basing the holiday on price per head.
This sentence just makes me think that you really don't want to pay for your daughter.
Puds - i would, but it would be a struggle.
Pickled - my point is their reasoning behind why i should have to pay half for using a bed that'd be spare if dd wasn't going.
My point is me and dd could sleep on the floor and they'd still expect me to pay half for accomodation.
You have discussed this at length with them?
And yet you continue to scrounge and freeload.
I'll be surprised if you have any friends let alone a holiday next year.
Yes. If they had a bedroom each and you and your daughter were sleeping in the lounge area then I'd say it was reasonable to expect a reduction to reflect the fact you don't have s room or private space.
But since that's not the case, what's it got to do with anything?
They probably don't care what the sleeping arrangements are; there are two rooms - one for them, one for you. Sleeping on the sofa/floor/in the bath is irrelevant as it's not necessary when there are enough bedrooms.
Then don't go!!!
No one is making you!
Right so they are making your life easier? But your still kicking up a stink? I think your embarrassing yourself.
i've discussed all scenarios with them at length.
Oh dear. It gets worse.
If DD wasn't going, you wouldn't be going.
If you and DD weren't going, they wouldn't be going!
They are doing you a favour by going at all.
OP, seriously - get over yourself. The fact is, they are NOT expecting you to sleep on the floor, and if you had put that as the title of the thread, you would have been untruthful as you've already said you're having a room for you and your DD. For all you know, they may have decided that they were going to hold firm to splitting the costs in half as you would obviously have the room between the two of you, so stuck with the cost whatever sleeping arrangements you decided to come up with. Perhaps they see you're so inflexible so decided to beat you at your own game?
And I would not say they were freeloaders - I would say that you are looking a gift horse in the mouth as you're so sure you're right by repeating over and over 'but a child doesn't make this holiday more expensive', when you fail to see your friends being there don't make it any more expensive either as you wanted to go anyway!
Stop trying to mainpulate the scenario so that people agree with you when they obviously don't.
If you were a friend of mine, I would have given up and gone on holiday with my friend, and let you fork out the £450 on your own.
cortana yes to the supersoakers and op you are being unreasonable, sorry but the kids cost money..lots of..fact!
My point is me and dd could sleep on the floor and they'd still expect me to pay half for accomodation.
They actually said that?
You have a room though why shouldn't you pay for it?
You didn't bold or capps anything else. Just the point made to me, words like they and child, I understand your DD is a child. It felt patronising although I accept this wasn't your intention, so thank you.
This comes to mind. I think given you have made your point clearly a few times that we are as up to date on the situation as we will ever be. I think if you can't accept that most posters think YABU, it's either time to pay half of the total caravan cost, suck it up and get on with enjoying your holiday. Or stick to your guns and accept that as Anyfucker so wisely pointed out, friends don't raise points like this lightly, and they may not be so forthcoming with invitations or offers to help out in the future.
So because you're going to struggle to psy you're looking for ways to to make it reasonable for your friends to pay more?
Making you pay half even if you were on the floor is a bit of a non issue since that's not the case.
WhistlingNun, your friends offered to come ON A HOLIDAY THAT YOU SUGGESTED, thereby halving the cost to you. They didn't invite you to join them on their holiday; they agreed to come on your to cut your costs.
Of course i'll be paying for my daughter. i'll still have to feed, entertain her, and get her there and back.
What i don't understand is why i should pay for her to share a bed with me, or a room with one of my friends, or sleep on the floor when the bed was going spare anyway and her presence costs nothing more.
If my friends weren't going, i'd pay the £450 and have two beds spare. But i'd be getting my own room out of it.
My friends pay £112 and could still request their own room. In their eyes, the price has naff all to do with where people sleep.
YOUR FRIENDS ARE MAKING YOUR HOLIDAY MORE AFFORDABLE! STOP BEING A SELFISH TIGHT ARSE!
I am amzed that they are still friends with you
I need to stop coming back to this thread. It's like picking at a scab. I know I shouldn't but...
Ill still have to feed her,entertain her and get her there and back Welcome to parenthood op
Sorry to chime in with everyone else but on a caravan holiday with friends, and I have done this, it is standard practice to split the bill per bedroom used. So on a hol with single friend and son in three bed caravan, DP and I paid for our room, friend for hers and half each for room that kids shared. Lots of us have done similar and per room is how it is always split even if it is all your children in that room.
Dizzy - your posts are making most sense to me... I'll have a think.
All these numbers etc have really confused me.
Then I suggest you invite another adult along to share a room with!
God you're stupid.
Can you not even see that your friends are doing you a favour by going at all?
And that without them you would have to pay double?
And that if you're not happy with the arrangement you have the option to cancel and do your own thing?
So you're getting pissy about a situation that doesn't even exist? They are not going to invite you again. Especially if you really think that having a kid means you pay less for your holiday because you still have to feed and entertain her.
Donna - my point of that quote was that my friends are taking these costs into consideration when saying i should have to half the £450. When its totally separate.
Your daughter is using a bed. If she were not in that bed, maybe a fourth adult would have been asked. maybe you would have all used it for luggage and had more space... If you and your DD were not in that room, maybe your friends would have had a room each.
You should pay half as you are using half.
I think you are missing their point totally.
The caravan sleeps 4 adults, in two bedrooms each. The price divided in 4 is £125 per person. You are letting your dd room in with you, so the cost to you is the same as for two adults.
If you want it to be fair and equal then you invite another adult along to share your room, and you put your dd in bed with you, or let her camp on the floor on an airbed.
As it stands, you are letting the bed to your dd, so you pay for her!
Ok WHISTLE I'll make this easy for you to understand.
If your friends don't go you pay £450
If your friends do go you pay £225
See how they are saving you money?
If your DD wasn't going then they could get another adult to jump in and they would still be paying the same.
Unless babies are involved, then you go on the head count. At 5, they are counted.
I speak as a LP (widowed). The only people who subsidise a child going on holiday is family and that is usually because there would be no other way for that child to have a holiday.
Wait until at 13 you are paying adult prices for a AI holiday.
Get over it.
Crikey, what sane adult without kids would choose to go to Haven?
"All these numbers etc have really confused me."
Sorry, I don't buy that.
You don't like that we're not agreeing with you having to pay your way, that's all.
No, Mutt, i'm not stupid thanks.
My friends were looking for a cheap holiday. I was looking for a cheap holiday. We're helping each other out.
I have read this thread and I understand why the OP thinks it is unfair to pay half but I am still think she is BU. You get a room, they get a room - that is a fifty fifty split.
I would suggest, as the OP's friends have agreed to pay extra, that the OP either reimburse her friends or buy lots of lovely treats for the trip. A big box of goodies, wine, chocolates, cheese etc etc should help make things a bit fairer and will help make peace with your pals.
I understand. I've been in this situation. I paid for my frickin' kids. Jesus.
OP - as I said before (and you ignored), do you not think they may have discussed this already and decided to hold firm with the cost whatever arrangement you came up with? Perhaps they view you as being inflexible (!) and realise that you would come up with scenarios to try and save yourself some money when, realistically, you would always have a room (and they were already saving you money by going in the first place). Come on, what is the likelihood that they would expect you to sleep on the floor so they could have a room each? I have to say: given how you've behaved on this thread, I can understand why they'd have decided something beforehand and not budged. I think they've had enough of you not paying your way and decided to hold firm, and I agree with them.
You mentioned upthread you were good friends and this would blow over - I wouldn't be too sure of that, and I would consider very carefully how much this is worth arguing over given they are saving you money and how much it could damage your friendship with both these women.
You just don't get it, do you, and won't be persuaded that you are wrong, even after 98% of people on this thread telling you that you are wrong. Why should your friends sub your daughter's holiday?
Why start the thread in the 1st place as you have decided your not being unreasonable.
If it bothers you so much, decline the invite and you and dd go on holiday on your own.
You should only go thirds if your friends are happy to subsidise your daughter as a favour.
They are not. Make no mistake - you are being subsidised.
Please stop it now I'm going to wet me self
the £450 includes more than just the beds OP
you're not going to turn up to find just some beds on a plot exposed to the elements are you? you will also presumably have maintained&cleaned walls/rooms around the beds, and perhaps a bit of electricity, water and heating?
Also your friends could just not go on the holiday saving you and them over £200. Thats a win surely?
You are making a rod for your own back, you will have nobody to go on holiday with in the future when you are squibbling like this and expecting other people to pay for your dd.
So do that then
Go by yourself with your child and pay 450
Or you could be grateful that your friends are effectively halving the cost of your holiday and stop being fixated on this idea that your daughter should be free because you think its right.
Why can't you just be happy you get to take your child on holiday for 225 accom.
Why do you want to force your friends to pay extra when it really sounds like they were only doing it in the first place cos you did the whole want a holiday my child can't have a holiday come with me or I can't afford it thing.
Your opinion is not the only one that matters.
How your friends feel is equally important.
But you're not sleeping on the sofa, you've got a room!!! So that hypothetical discussion I'd irrelevant.!!!! Arrrgh.
You have half the rooms available, and half the bed space used, so you should pay half.
If you've discussed it at length with them along the lines of the discussion on here then I can see when they finally agreed to pay, because there is no reasoning with you.
YABU and v obstinate.
I imagine they are very pissed off, will not be asking you again, and in the future you will have to suck up the reality of paying for your child when you go on holiday.
If your DD didn't come would you or your friends get another friend to come?
If you value these friends, apologise and pay up.
OP invite 2 more friends to go as well. They can split the cost 50/50 with your other friends then you and your daughter can sleep on the floor and go for free.
Op YABU you should pay half what you are saying is you shouldnt because it is the same price whether or not your dd is there. But by that logic your friends could say they should pay nothing because it will still be 450 whether or not they are there do you see why this would be unreasonable. Pay half and get over yourself.
Dear God my head's hurting reading Whistling's stance on this.
Whistling you have choices here:
1.go with your dd and pay £450. That's right, £450. You have a room each. You pay for her as she's a child without her own money.
2. go alone (if someone will take your dd) and pay £450. That's right, it makes no difference if she's with you or not.
3. Go with your friends, A and B. They share one room and you and D share the other. 2 'groups' in 2 rooms. Seems sensible to pay £225 'per room'. You pay for your dd as in 1. COS SHE HAS NO MONEY OF HER OWN.
They're already subbing you by sharing the cost, you can't expect them effectively to pay for your dd too, especially when you keep going on about her "making no difference". She shouldn't make a difference, to THEM, not to you.
And as an aside however lovely your dd is, if I were childless I wouldn't relish sharing caravan space with someone else's small daughter. They're sucking this up for you too. so dont piss them off even more.
What i don't understand is why i should pay for her to share a bed with me, or a room with one of my friends, or sleep on the floor when the bed was going spare anyway and her presence costs nothing more
Because without your friends there would be no 'spare' bed or no beds at all....see?
Your friends are doing you a favour by going along. Instead of being delighted about this you are sulking because you don't want to pay her way. You want them to.
But no good deed goes unpunished I suppose.
By studiously ignoring everyone who points out that you are using your friends I can only conclude that you know right well you are freeloading but don't care. I don't buy your earlier claim that you're not good with figures so you 'don't understand'. I'm shit with figures and even I can understand you're trying to pull a fast one.
Fucking hell gob, don't give her ideas.
I must have lived a very sheltered life. I did not realize that it was possible to reach adulthood and even moterhood and be that unable to see other peoples point of view..
The bed would not be going spare, it was her bed. Or you could invite a 4th adult to sleep in that bed.
Ha ha, maybe you could all contact Haven and say that you will ALL be sleeping on the floor, so the caravan should be free!
Op does get that she is BU but is looking for ways not to be because she is tight.
OP, have you read about the five ways of managing conflict:
- win / lose
- problem solving
Right now, you have taken a win/lose approach and your friends are accommodating you.
That's fine, if this battle about paying for the holiday is the only time you will ever encounter them, if you don't value your long-term relationship, and if you don't mind an awkward holiday.
If you want to stay friends and have a pleasant holiday, I suggest you move toward a spirit of compromise or problem solving.
Just trying a different way to get the OP to see how unreasonable she is being ENorma. <Notstirringatallohnonotme>
2 bedrooms - cost gets split in half
3 bedrooms then a third if you have your child in with you
Crikey, what sane adult without kids would choose to go to Haven?
Exactly! The OP and her dd obviously mean a lot to these two ladies which is why they are going along and chipping in the cost. Why the OP is throwing this back at them by demanding they pay more is obviously getting to them. Even after this selfish behaviour they are still going and putting up with her suggestion "to shut her up"? OP I'd have politely cancelled on you by now. You must mean a hell of a lot to them.
I went on holiday to a rented cottage with two girl friends and our five children between us.
So each adult is counted as two points and each child is counted as one point = a total of 11 points
The total cost of the cottage and ferry was £2200, so each point is worth £200
I had to pay £400 for myself and £400 for my two children so £800, my friend with one child had to pay £400 for herself and then £200 for her one dc and friend three paid the same as me as she also had two dc.
Fair for everyone
Well this isn't how it comes across in the adverts
Why did you ask if you were being unreasonable? Almost everyone has said YES YABU and yet you are still arguing your point!!
Friends don't give "free child places" and you shouldn't expect them to.
Pay your way.....
Tbh, I think you're lucky to have two understanding childless friends who are willing to go away on holiday with a child. Most child free people I know wouldn't even contemplate it!
You keep harping on about the way they have calculated it not being by room. This is a red herring. The fact is, if one of your friends decided not to go, the cost would remain the same to the group as a whole. You are focusing nor the wrong thing.
Bottom line, there are four people going, therefore the cost is split four ways. Just because one of the people going is legally responsible for another one of the group, it doesn't mean the cost is reduced. And your DD not increasing the cost doesn't change anything either. If none of you went, the cost would be the same.
You really need to suck this one up and pay the half you should be paying. You will not be going on holiday again if you don't pay your fair share. Your friends have very specifically told you how unhappy they are about you not paying your fair share. Take the hint.
Okay, had a quiet think.
I can see it's fair i pay half if i am using one room and they are sharing.
If, however, they change these sleeeping arrangements, i won't find it reasonable at all.
Ps - there are a few of you on here who are incapable of expressing an opinion without being really mean and offensive. It's difficult to take on board everyone's advice when people are calling you names inbetween. Not once have i called any of you a pain in the arse or stupid because i didn't agree with your post. Uncalled for.
Why would they change the arrangements? ?
Yeah but not everyone called you a name so really... you can't get mad.
Thats because we are not being a PIA. You on the other hand are being massively frustrating with your inability to see that YABU!!!!
So what are you going to do? And why would they change the arrangements?
Good idea, OP. I'm sure they will be glad you have come round to their way of thinking.
Well now whistling nun, I find it extremely difficult to believe that you are a nun as you have already confessed to having a child. But really you are just being very silly, how will they change the sleeping arrangements? Shall someone sleep on the roof, in the garden, in the bin, in the bath? How silly, I really thought that Mum's net was a more sensible place than this.
Pay per room, only fair way. You have to pay for the fun passes too so as they are included in price did you expect your friends to cover that too?
Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.
When we get there, they might change the sleeping arrangements.
i.e. if they don't want to sleep in the same bed. the twin room might be too small to share between two adults etc
They are not expecting your DD to pay, they are expecting you to pay for your child. You chose to have your DD so you are responsible for her, not your friends. All these scenarios you are coming up with are ridiculous and irrelevant seeing as you are having one of the bedrooms.
From what you have posted you can't afford an holiday on your own so they are doing you a massive favour by agreeing to go on holiday with you and halving your accommmodation costs by doing so.
Quite frankly if I were one of your friends I'd cancel going and leave you to fund your own holiday.
Why are they sharing the double anyway?
I would have thought it more logical for you to share with your DD?
biff - fun passes are free with Haven accomodation. Which is why it would cost £450 of 3 of us were going or 4.
You only pay extra if using a private hire.
Op has only said she can see she is BU. Nottthat she will do anything about it. As for changing the arrangements, I think that's a red herring again. Just something to imagine is happening and get pissy about. If she's that worried she needs to point out the time a 5 year old would be in bed and insist they retire to their own rooms at that time!
What difference would it make if they are in the double room or you and dd are? I would have thought it made more sense for you and dd to share the double bed anyway
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Where - my daughter is autistic, and i find it really hard to believe you'd have the audacity to ask a complete stranger if they were autistic based on a silly thread about a holiday.
Gosh OP. You may think that your friends are being unreasonable (I don't).
BUT even if they are being unreasonable, the end result of you paying half for a use of one out of the two rooms is entirely fair.
Focus on the end result rather than their reasoning if that helps you act with a little grace.
Mutt - they're concerned the twin beds might be too small for them, and the double bed might be more comfortable.
No, haven't read the thread. It's massive.
YANBU. How is a 5 year old expected to pay her share? They're mean assholes if they can't club towards the cost of her share by splitting it into thirds.
Gonna be a crap holiday if they're expecting you to pay for half of everything. Don't go with them, they either can't afford it or don't want to help. What fun is that?
OP - I really find it unlikely they'll change the arrangements. Next time you speak to them, can you not say you will pay half the cost based on you and your DD having a room? That way, everyone knows where they stand, and no assumptions are made about who's paying what, and why.
Fair enough re fun passes then but you still need to be fair re number of rooms being used, ie each "couple" using a room so therefore halving cost.
I'm also gonna reflect on this one. We've always done adults bills, e.g. Shared a cottage with another family, split bill in half, even though not equal number of children. I've never thought anything of it. Bu there is a big majority on here who divide by person not family or adult. So I am going to be careful and check my assumptions in future.
So just pick a room when you get there and dump your stuff on it. If they would really force you out of both rooms don't go at all. If it's a problem stipulate you expect a bedroom.
Actually you guys need to sit down and make an agreement on payments before going otherwise you're in for a terrible holiday where you wish you'd never gone.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I'm the one who is paying (my card) so i'll text just now and apologise, saying i'll pay half and i'll pay the deposit today to make up for it.
I admit i can be really stubborn sometimes and a bit of a twat - but definitely not autistic, WHERE.
As long as they get one room and you and your daughter get one room then it doesn't matter one little bit who gets which room.
Its still the same.
I've slept in those double beds with dh. They'll be better off in singles. The doubles are about one and half single beds size.
Yes, Dizzy, i'll mention that just now to them.
I wouldn't bother OP.
It's based on the size of the caravan, not amount of people.I think your friends are using your child as an excuse not go thirds and therefore not pay as much.
As I said, I wouldn't bother. Then they'll have to pay half won't they?
Stripiest I would tend to give a passing thought to consumption. Children don't eat as much food, certainly don't drink alcohol etc but do take up the same space in a car and a bed in a house. Since I'm generous I tend to offer to pay in whatever manner is least favourable to me and usually the final result is an agreeable compromise.
Jeez that moved fast, that was directed at Where you left it not you OP, just wanted to clarify.
WhistlingNun, the reason I ask is because you are taking such an extreme stance it makes no sense otherwise. If you are aware of a reason you don't read social situations well, you can take measures to avoid messing up, e.g. asking a trusted person what they thought about it and taking their advice. I do fear that you may be messing up big time here, and lose your friends. I actually don't want you to mess up.
Are they very fat? I would much rather have my own bed than have slept with my wriggly 5yo.
Do you have a prefererence which room you have?
If you end up paying half, you need to agree before you go who sleeps where. And if you can't agree (which seems likely tbh), you need to draw straws.
Yes you can be a bit of twat
I don't think you've been a twat here.
Just obviously very convinced you were right.
You've done more than some people would be able to by actually taking a step back, reflecting on the different opinions and using them to think again about what you feel is fair.
Oh calm down, calm down all of you. This really is just getting very silly and unnecessary. The original poster asked for our opinions, we gave them she didn't agree, move on! Go and have a Victoria Sandwich and a cup of tea and get over it FOOLS!
Oh. But stubborn?
I'm afraid I'm going to have to go back to the security of the cake and bird thread, this is all getting a bit stressful
Ha we can all be stubborn. Op you took a bit of a pasting here but well done for fixing it. Just try not to get upset over imagined scenarios!
Mutt - yep they are quite large, which is why they thought they'd be better off in the double.
I'll say to them about the double being small though.
Think i ought to de-stress now and look forward to telling dd about our holiday when she comes home later.
50/50, don't understand why you wouldn't want to pay your way, it's your child not your friends. They are probably really pissed off with you now which won't be a good start to your hiolidsy, stop being do tight!
Ok...I'm back (can't stay away from this)
in your position I would take the double simply because it is easier for an adult and child to share than it is for two adults.
I would see it as fairer on them really
I'd go with the double in your situation too Whistling. Plus then you get lovely night cuddles
alongside elbows and kicks from DD.
OP, well done. You might have just saved a couple of friendships. Have a lovely break.
We've just had to delete a post, and withdraw a few other that referred to it. Peace and love, as our lovely Olivia would say.
For anyone that got distracted by the post earlier ^^ about Daily Mail holidays
the codes are as follows:
And the website is here:
Good plan OP. I hope you all have a great time.
Fair play OP. Not many folk admit that they may have been unreasonable after being so certain they were not.
This is the most frustrating thread I've ever read.
So if you are paying half, remember and toss for the room. Hopefully they will get the squishy double and you and daughter can have a single bed each.
fair play op respect to you for backing down.
Fair play op offering to go halfs is the right way to go here.
You have given me mild indigestion though
Sorry but I am with worra on this one. Will someone explain to me how the op,s daughter is adding to the friends cost. I think your friends are expecting you to subsidize them and yanbu and shouldnt go. I think most people haven't read the op properly.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Not sure if you've been haven before but the singles are very very very small!
I probs go for double with dd if I had the choice unless she's a right wriggler.
Thanks rubygates I knew something good was going to come out of following this thread all day
Fairest is to pay per bedroom - they are happy to share with each other, you share with your daughter. Sorry think you are being a bit U, and think half is fair.
If they didn't want to share and you ended up with a 3 bedroom caravan then would be fair to pay a third each.
a. If some adults share a self catering place on holiday, and one couple has a baby in nappies (consumes nothing else because ebf), and there is a kitty for food and booze etc, do the adults who have the baby pay separately for nappies, or is that just cost thrown in to be divided by number of adults?
(just taking advantage of all these opinionated people to settle something that has had me pondering for a while)
Part b: does the same solution apply to fags, if one adult smokes and the others don't?
You pay for your own nappies (for your own actual baby) and fags but I don't see which path your leading me down here!
OK pickled that's what I thought, but others (irl) disagree. (not my baby) (not my fags) No tricks, I just wanted to know which side the mn gavel would come down.
I wouldn't expect to pay for someone else's cigarettes or sweets or Segway ride.
I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for DC's nappies either.
On the other hand, if everyone smoked, or had an infant in nappies, it might be more economical to buy in bulk and all take from the communal pot - like one does for food - without counting/measuring the exact consumption.
Nappies & fags are specialist equipment, not shared. So the individual pays.
curryeater do you think that stems from some people thinking it means "splitting the supermarket bill" which for them has cigs and nappies and Fairy liquid in it, and other
normal people thinking you split what you share?
I remember in the early days of Big Brother they used to have to budget really tightly and the difference of opinion about how much tobacco and alcohol formed part of a normal grocery shop was remarkable...
I have 2 kids and always spilt it according to the number of heads there. So when we went away with the grandparents I always paid for 4 heads and only allowed them to pay for 2.
OP if I was your friends I would be very impressed with your gracious acceptance of having been wrong and offering to pay.
Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, its unusual for people to graciously retreat I find, and impressive when they do.
Good on you.
At what age OP, do you think you should paying for your DD to go on holidays? Hypothetically speaking, assuming this couple actually want to go away with you again, when do you think your DD should incur cost?
Aged 10, 15? What?
I've ploughed through the whole thread, and well done OP for being able to step back from your obviously strong convictions in the face of so many opposing opinions. I don't think your child should freeload on your friends, but maybe it is fair that you compromise together on a slightly lower share, as she is only a child.
Does it help if you think about it like this:
A~ A holiday costs the same for 3 or 4 people.
B~ If three adults go, they will act in a certain way, and have 1/3 of the space, 1/3 of the decision making power over what happens in the time shared.
C~ But there are four going.
D~ if the fourth person is a baby, the three adults will probably act in more or less the same way they did without the baby (any inconvenience falling mainly on the parents- provided there's no screaming all night etc).
E~ if the fourth person is a small child, say a five year old, that will have an impact on the behaviour and actions of the three adults present. They might modify their language. They will have to take her desires into consideration (eg "I want to sit there", or "I want the last bagel for breakfast", or "I want to watch my TV show now"). They will be expected to lower their volume after she's asleep. It will have an impact on their experience.
F~ if the fourth person is an adult, the four will each have 1/4 of the shared space, 1/4 of the decision making power, etc.
Can you see the difference between B and E? Because that's what I think is relevant here. Not rooms, or beds or whatever.
Then that there are two rooms, two twin beds, one double bed, three adults and one child to share those arrangements might be something that you as a group decide to take into consideration in your cost splitting. But unless there was a serious advantage to one part of the accommodation over another, I wouldn't be changing the share I expected someone to pay based on "you get 1/2 a double bed, while I get a twin bed". You work out what best suits the dynamics of the group relative to the accommodation available. In your case, I think it would work well for you and you DD to either have a twin bed each or share the double, so since you're friends are helping you to afford a holiday you otherwise couldn't, and agreeing to share with your DD, it would be nice if you let them pick which beds they want.
Good luck sorting it all out so everyone's happy. Would be a shame if your holiday is uncomfortable because of an earlier difference of opinion about cost sharing.
Horatia, yes I do.
part c. If several adults are self-catering and they all smoke but one, (or all but one have a baby) should fags (nappies) still be deducted from the total before dividing by x (and then fags / nappies be divided by y, where y= x-1)?
Yes, If there are 4 of you and A,B and C are the only ones that smoke you divide the cost of the nappies by 4, then you deduct the answer from D's final bill for groceries at the end
Ofcourse it can become complicated if you all have different tastes and it may work out easier to just split the final bill evenly but Cigarettes are bloody expensive so the one not smoking is likely to come off worse if split evenly.
I suspect it would be fairer to smoke the nappies.
I went on holiday with friends to Haven and shared the costs... In total there was 3 adults and 4 kids.
I paid half and they paid half... even though 'they' were husband & wife + 3 kids and I was one adult, one child...
I figured I had saved £200 and had company, which i am lacking on holiday as a single parent and finding people who are willing share with us despite all the particularities my son has is worth it.
I didn't even have a room!! I slept on the pull out bed!! My son had a spare bed with one of the other children.
By your working out I should have gone on holiday for nothing as actually it cost them nothing to have us there...
You are wrong and actually very lucky OP... I wish I could find someone to go on holiday with this year.
dayshiftdoris I think your pals pulled a fast one!
Well done OP for realising that YWBU and sorting it out. It took a while... but you got there in the end!
No they didn't Dont
Because I approached THEM with the suggestion... for me to hire a caravan with Haven would cost £450 for a basic 2 bed and the 3 bed was £20 extra that week.
They paid for the food actually but I didnt mention that as we are taking about accomodation and we made our own way there...
I saved over £200 with my friends coming...
(Guessing figures BTW as it was a number of years ago!)
dayshiftdoris. That's good. .
If your child wasn't going would you still get 1 room to yourself and them the other room to share? You would then have the advantage of having that room all to yourself so you should pay half and them a quarter each.
Well done OP for changing your mind and letting your friends know.
I too think they'll be impressed that you've clearly been able to see their point of view, and are prepared to act on your revised opinion. You've probably saved the friendships.
Am I the only then that if me and 2 friends were going to a caravan and one friend brought along their 5 yr old -I would happily split it 3 ways for the adults and would feel bad if the friend with child paid more then us?
I'm really surprised at the the replies here in this situation.
They have to share a room. Would you have had the room to yourself if your dd weren't going? I would want to pay less for a shared room than I would expect to pay for a room to myself or to share with my own dd.
Ha ha, maybe you could all contact Haven and say that you will ALL be sleeping on the floor, so the caravan should be free! grin
I have tears running down my face
What's all this back slapping and 'well done for agreeing with the majority' business?
I know that this is the place to go if you want real opinions, but it's starting to sound like welcoming a runaway into a commune.
OP, I understand it's not so easy to click your fingers and magic up the cash to take your kid on a great holiday, and that it's great to have company and some help so I can't just say 'dump the crap mates and get better ones' but I hope things go a little easier on you next year. I feel you won't forget this.
I think it is really important to acknowledge when people have listened and changed their minds. In my real-life friendships, I will forgive just about anything if people give a genuine apology and have genuinely revised their ideas. It takes a lot of guts to do, especially if you have been so set in your opinion in the other direction.
I think OP has been brave, both on the forum but more importantly to her real-life friends. If I were her friend, I would be impressed and happy that she had valued my opinions, even if it took a little while.
Don't think her friends sound very much like friends TBH.
HOLY COW! The Codes actually work!
I have been trying to book Camber Sands in Sussex for our family!
Sadly, we are working, and can only do 3-6 May, and it seems the offers are only valid midweek, so no good for us. But, oboy, it is a good deal for people who can take time off, and dont have children in school!!
Is that over a weekend? Are they showing as full?
I'd keep looking they sometimes release more dates.
HI , i read about the first page of this and its all bullshit tbh, i use haven all the time, at the end of the day the cost is per caravan, not per room, as you are going as 3 seperate families you SHOULD CERTAINLY pay for a third of the bill. end of!!!! they are not paying your share, nor an extra share for your child as the caravan hire like you say would be the same if you or they werent going.
Dont be bullied into it, they arent doing you any favours on this one! If i were you id take your DC alone, and bugger them!
by the way, when i wrote my last post i stand by it as being 3 families, so 3rds, yet i think that you should hire a 3 bedroom caravan, so that you each get your monies worth for the holiday, and the privacy aswell. I never meant to imply that the entire bills for the holiday should be split by 3, as indeed you will incure costs that they wont, due to your DC. BUt regarding the Caravan, you should pay a 3rd. Thats just IMHO though
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