Quick poll please, WIBU here?

(42 Posts)

Ex is due to have DS today, it is the last weekend of the month, and he has him Sat and Sun.
Today is DNephew's 4th birthday, and he is having a party that DS has been looking forward to for two weeks. Ex is well aware that the party is happening, DS had been refusing to go to EX's house in case he missed the party, so we (me, ex and ds) have had lots of conversations about when the party is to persuade him it's OK to go to his dad's, he won't miss the party.

Today ex text me "Where and when am I getting him?" I say "Dsis address, party ends 6pm"
He's gone off on one saying he knew nothing of the party (so why ask where and when he's picking ds up?) and has said "I will be at your door at 6pm. Have him ready"

I say it it his responsibility to collect ds from the party, he says I have to trek all 3 of my kids 2 miles in the snow, leaving the party early in order to be at home for him coming.
Our written agreement states "UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES Ex will collect DS from home address"
This is not a normal weekend, as ds has a one-off birthday party to attend. Who IBU, YOU DECIDE (in a Geordie Big Brother accent)

NeedlesCuties Sat 26-Jan-13 14:05:38

The ex is BU.

HIBU, as long as you are sure that he knew about the party. Tell him he is welcome to go to your house but DS won't be there to be collected as you're at the party you said you would be at

Schmoozer Sat 26-Jan-13 14:07:00

If things are not amicable between you both parents,
Then i think its better to stick to the letter of the written agreement,
Or there is always going to be something to conflict about, which is not good for the kids.

He most definitely knew about it, even DS says his dad knows. We had many conversations about it being THIS Sat.

This is just what ex does, every time. Stupid me didn't put it in a text or email to prove I told him, I stupidly didn't expect a kick off about the party.

Lovelygoldboots Sat 26-Jan-13 14:09:40

He should go to the party. As a parent you should do what is in best interests of child no matter who has parental responsibility. Why should your ds have to suffer? You need to come to an amicable agreement otherwise you will both upset him.

diddl Sat 26-Jan-13 14:15:18

Of course he should go to the party & ex should collect.

Is it much out of his way to do so?

Could you all stay since it´s at your sister´s?

Then take your son home after the party & ex collects then from you at whatever time?

KenLeeeeeee Sat 26-Jan-13 14:19:01

HIBU

diddl we'd normally out stay our welcome at dsis's for as long as we fancied, so long as DCs all playing nicely. The "end" time of the party is for party guests, and not close family IYSWIM?

fluffypillow Sat 26-Jan-13 14:23:10

He is BU, and it is very unfair on your DS. He needs to grow up tbh.

Pigsmummy Sat 26-Jan-13 14:31:35

Tell him straight that if he comes to your door at six then you won't be there as someone needs to collect DS! He is BU

"we (me, ex and ds) have had lots of conversations about when the party is"
Of course it is your ex that is being unreasonable. Does he really not realise that if he messes this up, DS will become ever more reluctant to go to his?

I'm guessing this sort of thing is why he's your ex.

Shelby2010 Sat 26-Jan-13 15:06:17

YANBU Just text him that he can either collect DS from the party at 6pm or your house at 7.30pm. His choice.

helenthemadex Sat 26-Jan-13 15:10:54

it all seems very unfair on your ds to miss out on something that he was looking forward to, but effectively your ex is loosing half of his short time with his son and probably resents that.

Would it not have been possible for you to bend a little to for the sake of your son, could ex not have had him last night on the understanding that he took him to DN party and picked him up after

its so hard for everyone in situations like this

Ex has ds 3 nights a week, AND sat and sun of last weekend of the month.
As I say, it's a one-off.
I do bend, all the time, but it's obviously too late now to make arrangements as you describe. If this had been suggested I probably wouldn't have agreed to it anyway, as ex would have made sure DS didn't get to the party.
I think that if this party was at DS's friends house, ex would have no problem collecting him. He's just acting the controlling arse because it's my Dsis.

TalkativeJim Sat 26-Jan-13 15:37:44

Here is what I'd reply.

'As you know, we spent some time discussing the fact that the party was this Saturday and that DS would be going and you would pick him up. Do you know why? Because before that DS was refusing to go to yours this weekend as he was afraid that you would prevent him going to the party.

Sounds like your son's instinct not to trust your word and to know that you'd put your wants ahead of his welfare were spot on.

I won't be leaving the party early to have DS here for six, partly because I at least don't plan to go back on my word to him, but also (stupidly) because I'd also like him not to start thinking of his father as a nasty piece of work. I'd have thought you wouldn't want that either, but it seems that throwing your weight around is more important to you.

Ever heard the saying - you reap what you sow?

There'll come a day when I stop caring what DS thinks of you. I could do it today - make him leave the party early, telling him that I'm sorry but Daddy has changed his mind and won't pick him up at the end after all. Harsh lesson to learn - maybe he's best learning it now? Let me know if you'd like to call and discuss- maybe you can persuade me to do that. Needless to say, next time there's a situation like this, I'm sure you'll understand when DS flatly refuses to go to yours.

helenthemadex Sat 26-Jan-13 16:18:05

Diana it doesn't say that in the original posting only that 'Ex is due to have DS today, it is the last weekend of the month, and he has him Sat and Sun'

my response was based on that information, trying to be fair and see things how he may be seeing them

At the end of the day your son wants to go to the party, ex was/is aware of that so if you have previously agreed between you that your son would go, I would stick with that and text back saying the party finishes at xxx you can either collect him from dsis or we will be home at xxx as previously agreed between ds, you and I

I really would resist the urge to be confrontational it just leads to more problems from experience

lovelyladuree Sat 26-Jan-13 17:12:49

All that notice and no-one thought of just changing the weekend DS goes to his Dad's this month confused

Hello again, I text ex and told him I would drop ds off after the party, as I had managed to dig my car out and get it onto a main road (despite two cars being abandoned on my street!)

However, DS refused to leave at 6pm, so I left it for an hour (I let ex know) then left the party. I took ds to his dad's. When he answered the door he called me an "ignorant cunt" and started shouting about all the step dads I've paraded around DS. This is all in his head. There has been no-one else.

DS refused to get out of the car, ex was shouting and swearing at me, and inventing all these men IN FRONT OF MY 3 DCs, so I really can't blame him. He pulled the driver's door open and shouted more abuse at me. Eventually he stepped back and allowed me to close the door, but punched the window with full force. I'm gobsmacked it didn't smash, esp as the window was only halfway up. Kids are very shaken.

I've text him to say I won't be doing hand overs at his door again, and I don't ever want him at my door (he came on Thursday, as I was getting something out of the car for DS, ex blocked my path back into my house, was in my face and wouldn't let me past. On Tuesday and Sunday he came up and kept kicking the door and shouting abuse through the letterbox) so he'd better arrange for a third party to sort out hand over for contact.

Emilythornesbff Sat 26-Jan-13 20:21:57

Poor thing.
I would speak to someone about managing contact with abusive ex p.
Your own solicitor if you have one, or somewhere like women's aid of you don't.

Emilythornesbff Sat 26-Jan-13 20:23:07

Also, call police in event of future outbursts.

Thanks, I didn't think of WA. I have thought about a solicitor.

Convert Sat 26-Jan-13 20:27:38

Yes, ring the police if he behaves like this again. He sounds like a wanker. Poor you.

ZillionChocolate Sat 26-Jan-13 20:32:49

I think you ought to call the police about what happened today. It ought to be recorded, even if it's not investigated. It sounds like it would be worth you seeing a solicitor.

Your ex was wholly unreasonable and his behaviour was inexcusable. I do feel that you didn't help matters by leaving the party late. I'm not sure how old your son is, but I don't understand why he was in a position to dictate when you left the party. You should have been prioritising his contact with his father.

I let him stay longer as he said he didn't want to go to his dad's. I'm not going to force him to get in the car when he doesn't want to go. I thought that if I allowed him to party himself out, he would go willingly.
I know he'd have resisted and resented if I'd said he had to leave enjoying himself to go to his dad's.

This was a one off, for his cousin's bday, it's not a regular occurrence.

I don't ever tell him he HAS to go to his dad's, I try my best to persuade him. He has a great time when he is at his dad's, but is sometimes reluctant to go at first.
He wasn't dictating what time we left, we left when the party came to it's natural end and the rest of the family's kids had got their coats.

montage Sat 26-Jan-13 21:12:24

I don't think your son, or your other children, should have to be exposed to that (obviously).

If your son has to go to his father's (he does not sound like he wants to and your ex is aggressive), is there some other person or way to do the handover?

I would certainly speak to WA.

Lovelygoldboots Sun 27-Jan-13 00:39:03

I am so sorry. He sounds violent and abusive. I hope you can get some support. And yes ring police, you and your children should not have to put up with this.

Icelollycraving Sun 27-Jan-13 02:13:08

Get this recorded with p

Icelollycraving Sun 27-Jan-13 02:14:23

Sorry. Get this recorded with police ASAP. Get some proper legal advice,

diddl Sun 27-Jan-13 09:21:26

He sounds absolutely awful-is he always like this when things aren´t exactly as he wants?

Does seem odd that he wasn´t given a different weekent this month though & that son was allowed to stay longer than 6.

He could have had a different weekend, but didn't suggest it when I told him about the party. Probably so he could kick off about it.
If were to have suggested an alternate weekend, I'd be accused of changing contact to suit my social life, he'd infer that I must want to go out 'shagging' on x date if I suggested swapping contact to then.
And yes, he absolutely IS always this way when he doesn't get exactly what he wants. He's been like this with his own family, they have many periods of not speaking to him, they used to dread us splitting up at Christmas (as we often did) as it meant he would be with them and ruin their holiday (once pinning 15yo nephew against the wall by the throat in his own home on xmas day)
He's never been this out of control of his own behaviour before though, and things do seem to be escalating. Esp as it's in front of the kids. I can only assume that this is due to my complete emotional detachment (thanks to mn support and advice) from him, he can probably feel his power to affect me is diminished, and this is why he's losing his rag so much?

NynaevesSister Sun 27-Jan-13 11:32:52

If he is like that with his nephew and with you how is he with son?

First you need to take notes all the time. Write everything down as it happens and leave out any emotional language. Anything that was clearly written at the time will be accepted by judge in court. They will not put as much weight on anything that is written retrospectively if accepted at all.

You do not need texts or emails as long as it shows just the facts. Write this journal in your own hand rather than type to show it has been written over time.

You will be shocked when you go back over it after just a couple of months. It is surprising how much we put out of our minds.

Then what everyone else has said about getting advice. Your ex clearly has a personality disorder and you need more help on dealing with him.

frustratedashell Sun 27-Jan-13 12:16:25

I dont think you should be sending your son to his dads at all after what you have said, esp about the 15 year old nephew incident. He is clearly manipulative and violent.

diddl Sun 27-Jan-13 13:22:30

Oh that´s awful.

I wouldn´t want my child anywhere near him.

I'm not surprised he doesn't want to go to his dads if his dad is a violent, verbally abusive arse. How does he treat the kids when you're not around? I'd call the police to get this logged. Punching the car window when they were (and you) in it is disgraceful.

GettingObsessive Sun 27-Jan-13 14:49:50

Also, if you wanted to go out "shagging" on the weekend when your DS was at his Dad's why shouldn't you. It's not like you're still together, is it?

Lovelygoldboots Sun 27-Jan-13 14:58:26

Hope you are ok. The advice about writing a journal is excellent. It will help you make sense of what has happened and you can show it to the police or anyone else you need support from. Hope you can manage to cut him out of your sons life. Because he does not sound like a good father and is using your son to control you. You can't live like that. Wish I could help more.

If he is violent towards children/teenagers and you are concerned about your son's safety then you're entitled to stop contact until he sees someone about his issues.

Let him take you back to court if he wishes. But you need to log these episodes with the police and keep a diary. He sounds like your classic bully.

However, allowing your son (how old?) to stay longer when you knew the situation was already tense and that it was already cutting into contact time was below the belt. He's lost an entire day of his weekend contact.

As I said, if you're worried for your child's safety that's one thing but it's difficult to hang on to the moral high ground if you start playing spiteful games. I'm not saying that is what you've done but IMO the 'once off cousin's party' thing is a bit of a lame reason to antagonise him. Sorry!

walter He hasn't missed much time, really, he hasn't. We made this contact agreement with ds in mind.
I take my kids out to do something every Saturday, as ex has ds from 11am Sunday every week.
When we came to add a Saturday night in to his contact, Ex agreed that DS should not (and would not want to) miss out on a day out with his siblings to go to his Dad's, who does not take him anywhere as he doesn't drive.
Ex agreed to his weekend contact starting from teatime Saturday. This has always been flexible, if ex has something planned we change it, no problem, or (this will out me if nothing else has!) if I haven't planned to take the kids out on the Saturday (which during Sept/Oct/Nov I didn't as much as older ds ended up in a wheelchair so lots of activities we would normally do became impossible), ex took ds earlier on Saturday or on the Friday night whenever he wished to. All very amicable, flexible and friendly.

For those asking how ex behaves with the kids, he's actually a lot of fun and they loved going to his house.

However, recently I have discovered that he has been saying things to DS. Eg: "Your eczema is bad because of all the dust at mummy's house" (this despite previously taking the piss that I'm obsessed with cleaning and my Dyson is glued to my hand and is never put away. My house is CLEAN AND DUST FREE!)
He has also told ds that DC 1 and 2's dad (who doesn't really bother with them but is a hero when he does show up) is "a bad man"
He told my older DS that I am "stupid and stubborn"
He has put it in DS's head that the clothes I provide for him are no good, as they are age 3-4 (DS has just turned 5 and is small) so DS has been refusing to get dressed for me.
And ex text me one time he had taken ds away for 4 days to see his family, saying DS's eczema was "really bad". He refused to buy any eczema cream for ds when I suggested he took him to a pharmacy (why should he PAY FOR IT when I get it for FREE?!) or take him to urgent care centre ("and how am I supposed to get there, I don't even know where one is"). I told him to return DS ASAP if he refused to buy the stuff he needed. He then accused me of being "a drama queen, his skin wasn't even that bad"
On a previous occasion he'd brought DS home with horribly blistered skin. I asked what he'd been putting on it, he pulled a Lypsyl out of his pocket. FFS.

I'm sure I'll think of more.

Ah apologies. I assumed the weekend contact was for two full days.

Tbh, in that case you did nothing unreasonable.

However, what you've described re: his comments and care of your DS, I would be inclined to think that it doesn't matter how fun he is. What matters is his care of your DS. Is he doing a good job of that?

I have a SD so I would never suggest cutting contact with the father for no good reason but I think you do have good reason especially with the recent violence!

I would reiterate my advice to have it logged and keep a diary and maybe think about withholding contact until he sorts out his temper?

" things do seem to be escalating."
Please log this latest incident with the police, and if you haven't already, start keeping a journal of every incident. He sounds horrendous to deal with sad.

helenthemadex Mon 28-Jan-13 13:25:57

its hard to give a quick response to something when a lot of the back story comes out after

his behaviour when you took your ds was totally out of order and inexcuseable and should be logged somewhere for future reference, not sure where maybe speak to the community police and ask for advice. I do agree with Zillion, when you knew the situation was already tense and he was annoyed you should have ensured that ds was ready for his visit with his father, I know you said he didnt want to leave the party, I have had this situation as well and have just said I know you dont want to leave but your dad is waiting to see you or something similar

Maybe seeing a solicitor or mediation to formalise contact, it does make things easier, it is great to be flexible but I think that only works well when there is a reasonable relationship between the parents and they can talk rationally about stuff which it sounds to me like you and your ex can't

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